Maybe the worst part of it is not the painful physical and cognitive irritation, but the inability to truly connect, receive, and be received by others which is the ultimate goal but simultaneously the reason why this anxiety occurs
Thanks, gents - this an important discussion. Years ago, when my social anxiety seemed impossible to overcome (CPTS and HSP) I started making it a funny game, which worked . If I couldn't weasel out of a party, I pretended that god had appointed me to be the "Cosmic Greeter" at the party. It became my job to include everyone, chat up strangers and offer food, drinks and attention to everyone. If not every moment was perfect, at least I had reached out to other guests. It was a real bonus that no there one knew I was the "Cosmic Greeter" - the comedy was a huge help, even when no one else knew. In my ruminations afterward, I evaluated the experience as the "Cosmic Greeter", instead of my fragile ego. This got me through a lot of social gatherings I would have otherwise ducked.
This was great - Thx so much. My anxiety dropped when you mentioned focusing on others & “acceptance & what else can you do”. Your podcasts are so helpful - thx again 🙏
Excellent tips, but I must admit I was very anxious while listening to this about anxiety. My throat always gets tight and constricted when I’m nervous. Slowing down and thinking of others first were the best takeaways! I’ll try it out! Thank you both!
This was terrific! I am a late middle age psychotherapist with a lot of childhood trauma that left me with social anxiety (as well as PTSD, severe attachment trauma, structural dissociation, depersonalization and derealization, poor object constancy and object permanence, ADHD, and depression). I was adopted at age 2 - after being in an orphanage and three temporary homes - by a father who ridiculed me incessantly and a mother who was too depressed to listen or talk with me. When I spoke, my father would typically say "shut up, you don't know what you're talking about", and my mother would simply not respond or look at me (!) Part of the reason I include all this history is I'm gobsmacked that you too, who presumably had profoundly more nurturing childhoods, also deal with or have dealt with significant social anxiety. And I'm amazed that my social anxiety doesn't sound a whole lot worse than what you're describing a lot of people have. Perhaps this is because I did well in school academically and socially, was never bullied there, and my teachers liked me. Also it's a much less severe issue as I've gotten older. When I was a child walking to school, it would be quite painful to simply pass someone on the street. Now I find that it's EXTREMELY important for me to have an attractive appearance when I'm out in the world, and I'm mostly able to pull that off. (On the other hand, when I allow myself to see the profile of my face and body, which happen to be far less attractive, I can feel horribly demoralized). Also, I notice that my appearance needs to feel unassailable to be comfortable with people. Or, I need to feel objectively that I'm more attractive than the other person. I do notice another symptom though that's incredibly uncomfortable: I used to have a very naturally graceful way of moving and walking, but after becoming quite deconditioned during the pandemic, I no longer walk gracefully. As a result, whenever I'm walking in public I feel like I have a target on my back. SO uncomfortable! I'm so glad you included IFS in this discussion, as it's incredibly powerful. I very much need to make time to work on the young parts of me that carry so much shame and humiliation. I'd be very interested to hear your thoughts on any of this. Thanks again for you're beautiful offering!
@ranc1977 If what is said in the video doesn't work for you, that's fine. But to say it's filled with misinformation is very incorrect. None of this is a 1 size fits all.
I would so so so love a video on how to connect to others deeply, specifically ways to do it or how natural connection works. I like to meet new people but so many people do not seem like they want to talk with me, and this makes me question whether I am approaching connection the right way. (sidenote, I think I am) but this video topic would be so informative to me and many others. You guys always have such revelatory insight
It would be cool to really see specifics within conversation. For example, if someone does not seem too receptive to my question about what they did last weekend, should I jump on a new trail, ask more specifics about the weekend, or abandon ship altogether? Probably overthinking it but this would really clarify
My ADHD medication has remarkably reduced my anxiety. I make sure to take my medication doses earlier in the day if I will attending an event midday and I will take them later if I will attend an event at night. I must say that no amount of exposure ever helped, and I tried for 40 years.
Speaking to the "shrinking your life" I just quit my managerial job because I DREADED talking to the guests and am probably going to get a solitary night shift job where I don't have to "perform" for people. Both my boss and the guests were shocked that I was in such inner distress when talking to people because I hid it so well. Years ago, I also fled from a career fair because I felt so awkward when I started talking to a recruiter. Don't even get me started on ever asking a woman out on a date, especially because I'm unemployed now. Thanks social anxiety.
Thanks for this. I'm currently undergoing CBT for social anxiety and I noticed myself that I was being really egocentric in social situations, so your suggesting of widening my view, focusing on the warmth and friendliness of others to get out of my own head/way was very useful. 💚
Knowing one's true value in the world from every aspect of human experience and purpose, totally destroys anxiety. Having no fear as to any outcome moment to moment, but only welcoming whatever comes, allows us to maintain curiosity and drop the fear that is really self-obsession. Having said that, it's so easy to get intellectually; my cellular memories have other ideas and often more power. Practice.
This is a reply meant to agree and expand upon what you said, FYI. I experienced being in that same state of fearlessness and curiosity last night. I've felt it before but I never knew how to replicate it. Discovering that I'm AuDHD, nearly a genius, am in control of my own destiny (thanks to ADHD meds) lifted a MASSIVE weight off of my shoulder. For the first time in my life, I understand where I came from, why the things that happened to me happened, and that I'm going to be perfectly fine in the future. I gave the child inside of me a safe place to stretch and play and sleep, because he's no longer scared that his parent will tell him ALL of the terrible things people say to him. To fight anxiety, your inner child has to trust you and feel safe, which I think is necessary to eliminate fear.
My social anxiety is much less because I am going through a divorce where I suddenly had to flee the house and then get help for me and my daughter. So I had to ask for tons of help from all sorts of people. Worst experience ever, but it got me to ask for help and people were so nice and supportive, and we're going to be ok now, plus my social anxiety is about half of what it was. Like ACT says, do not believe untrue thoughts or unhelpful thoughts - this goes double for self-doubt thoughts, I think!
I appreciate you mentioning race as a factor in socializing. It creates an even higher barrier to connection when your difference is so easily discernible. For some reason, the gurus tend to miss that point.
Brilliant podcast! It is a pleasure to listen to your conversation, I am learning so much ❤ As for the topic itself, which books would you recommend about social anxiety (how to deal with it)?
I loved that Rick used the term “curvilinear.” My cousin that lived with me growing up , had the same LSD experience with my mom, Rick. My cousin is five years older than me.
A good quote from the School of Life channel regarding resting in a positive framework is, “If I were gonna try and be three things - honest, kind and polite what would I say NOW?”
Another comorbidity that happens with social anxiety is selective mutism and I never hear anyone talk about this! As someone who has been in relationships with 2 people who had it, I wish someone had told me this is a thing and explained it to me and helped me understand it better so I could accommodate and support my partners.
Oh my goodness. I was the only physically disabled kid in my school, all the way into post grad. I also have ADHD and was found to be "gifted" at the age of 38. I have auditory processing disorder, major depression, and GAD .I moved to a new country 3 years ago. I suddenly lost pretty much everything. Job, assets, family and friends all left behind. I live in the Netherlands now, and I am terrified to leave the house. I am conversationally proficient in Dutch, but I cant get through a social interaction without severe anxiety. The Dutch are awfully direct. I find it very difficult. I cant share a sidewalk with someone. I have actually fallen into a hedge trying to get out of the way. When I left school, I locked that little girl and all her fear and trauma away. Now my children have started school. I have no social connection, and the culture shock has been immense. That little girl has escaped her box, and she's scared of everything. I have therapy tomorrow. It's tough. This makes so much sense. Thank you!
I've been dealing with social anxiety for as long as I've known... all of my succsesses were temporary, it always get's worse again, every single day is like I push a reset button, no matter how far i've come the day before, the next day it doesn't matter anymore. :/ It's been ruining and is still ruining my life. I've done therapies, I've done exposure therapy but every weekend is just a total step back to step one. every day with no interaction is another day that just reinforces my anxiety... sure I have a few friends with whom I'Ve felt comfortable with in the past / a couple of months / weeks ago, but now it is just so intense again that I won't even be brave enough to meet up with them. Even my family invokes this anxiety which just distances me more and more from every person I matter to / which matters to me.. :/ Like I said every succsess is temporary with my anxiety.. after all these years I have no hope left that it will get any better.
This was so, so helpful - thank you! I am really struggling with social anxiety with my partner's tight-knit group of friends. It definitely feels like I have to perform, and when I am not recognized, or when people don't approach me (they often do not), I assume they don't like me and I shut down for the rest of the function. I don't have a good time, and then my partner feels bad. It's been causing some issues in our relationship and I have been feeling at a loss. I don't really have this issue with other people, but I want the people who are closest to my partner to accept me, and that hasn't happened.
not saying they are bad people of course but kindness sure goes along way towards an outsider. Maybe gravitate towards the one that is most warm or receptive towards you
He mentioned ‘duka duka’ suffering from suffering. That term is from sinhala language, which is only spoken in Sri Lanka 🇱🇰. You could find pure Buddhism is Sri Lanka ❤
The section on phobias made me wonder about exposure therapy. I've had emetophobia since i was little and it sort of rules my whole life day to day. Exposure therapy sounds absolutely horrendous for this, is the end level someone throwing up on me? Or am I in a room full of people throwing up everywhere? surely not? How do you even treat this phobia, sounds like a logistical nightmare (and an all around nightmare for me)
I think for women one of the anxiety factors comes from the tendency for “bad” women to lie to our faces or pretend to be a friend when they are far from it.
Maybe the worst part of it is not the painful physical and cognitive irritation, but the inability to truly connect, receive, and be received by others which is the ultimate goal but simultaneously the reason why this anxiety occurs
Thanks, gents - this an important discussion. Years ago, when my social anxiety seemed impossible to overcome (CPTS and HSP) I started making it a funny game, which worked . If I couldn't weasel out of a party, I pretended that god had appointed me to be the "Cosmic Greeter" at the party. It became my job to include everyone, chat up strangers and offer food, drinks and attention to everyone. If not every moment was perfect, at least I had reached out to other guests. It was a real bonus that no there one knew I was the "Cosmic Greeter" - the comedy was a huge help, even when no one else knew. In my ruminations afterward, I evaluated the experience as the "Cosmic Greeter", instead of my fragile ego. This got me through a lot of social gatherings I would have otherwise ducked.
“To put it simply, it’s complicated.” I’ve gotta frame that.
😂
This was great - Thx so much. My anxiety dropped when you mentioned focusing on others & “acceptance & what else can you do”. Your podcasts are so helpful - thx again 🙏
Excellent tips, but I must admit I was very anxious while listening to this about anxiety. My throat always gets tight and constricted when I’m nervous. Slowing down and thinking of others first were the best takeaways! I’ll try it out! Thank you both!
This was terrific! I am a late middle age psychotherapist with a lot of childhood trauma that left me with social anxiety (as well as PTSD, severe attachment trauma, structural dissociation, depersonalization and derealization, poor object constancy and object permanence, ADHD, and depression). I was adopted at age 2 - after being in an orphanage and three temporary homes - by a father who ridiculed me incessantly and a mother who was too depressed to listen or talk with me. When I spoke, my father would typically say "shut up, you don't know what you're talking about", and my mother would simply not respond or look at me (!)
Part of the reason I include all this history is I'm gobsmacked that you too, who presumably had profoundly more nurturing childhoods, also deal with or have dealt with significant social anxiety.
And I'm amazed that my social anxiety doesn't sound a whole lot worse than what you're describing a lot of people have. Perhaps this is because I did well in school academically and socially, was never bullied there, and my teachers liked me.
Also it's a much less severe issue as I've gotten older. When I was a child walking to school, it would be quite painful to simply pass someone on the street.
Now I find that it's EXTREMELY important for me to have an attractive appearance when I'm out in the world, and I'm mostly able to pull that off. (On the other hand, when I allow myself to see the profile of my face and body, which happen to be far less attractive, I can feel horribly demoralized).
Also, I notice that my appearance needs to feel unassailable to be comfortable with people. Or, I need to feel objectively that I'm more attractive than the other person.
I do notice another symptom though that's incredibly uncomfortable: I used to have a very naturally graceful way of moving and walking, but after becoming quite deconditioned during the pandemic, I no longer walk gracefully. As a result, whenever I'm walking in public I feel like I have a target on my back. SO uncomfortable!
I'm so glad you included IFS in this discussion, as it's incredibly powerful. I very much need to make time to work on the young parts of me that carry so much shame and humiliation.
I'd be very interested to hear your thoughts on any of this. Thanks again for you're beautiful offering!
I absolutely love and appreciate these discussions so much. 🙏🏿
@ranc1977 If what is said in the video doesn't work for you, that's fine. But to say it's filled with misinformation is very incorrect. None of this is a 1 size fits all.
I would so so so love a video on how to connect to others deeply, specifically ways to do it or how natural connection works. I like to meet new people but so many people do not seem like they want to talk with me, and this makes me question whether I am approaching connection the right way. (sidenote, I think I am) but this video topic would be so informative to me and many others. You guys always have such revelatory insight
It would be cool to really see specifics within conversation. For example, if someone does not seem too receptive to my question about what they did last weekend, should I jump on a new trail, ask more specifics about the weekend, or abandon ship altogether? Probably overthinking it but this would really clarify
My ADHD medication has remarkably reduced my anxiety. I make sure to take my medication doses earlier in the day if I will attending an event midday and I will take them later if I will attend an event at night. I must say that no amount of exposure ever helped, and I tried for 40 years.
Speaking to the "shrinking your life" I just quit my managerial job because I DREADED talking to the guests and am probably going to get a solitary night shift job where I don't have to "perform" for people. Both my boss and the guests were shocked that I was in such inner distress when talking to people because I hid it so well. Years ago, I also fled from a career fair because I felt so awkward when I started talking to a recruiter. Don't even get me started on ever asking a woman out on a date, especially because I'm unemployed now. Thanks social anxiety.
Physical workouts help you mentally. Try weightlifting or something and see what evolves. Helped me.
Thanks for this. I'm currently undergoing CBT for social anxiety and I noticed myself that I was being really egocentric in social situations, so your suggesting of widening my view, focusing on the warmth and friendliness of others to get out of my own head/way was very useful. 💚
I've been returning to this episode over and over through the last weeks, it has been a real help. Thank you so much
Thanks!
I love this channel. You two know the stuff!
Knowing one's true value in the world from every aspect of human experience and purpose, totally destroys anxiety.
Having no fear as to any outcome moment to moment, but only welcoming whatever comes, allows us to maintain curiosity and drop the fear that is really self-obsession.
Having said that, it's so easy to get intellectually; my cellular memories have other ideas and often more power.
Practice.
This is a reply meant to agree and expand upon what you said, FYI.
I experienced being in that same state of fearlessness and curiosity last night. I've felt it before but I never knew how to replicate it. Discovering that I'm AuDHD, nearly a genius, am in control of my own destiny (thanks to ADHD meds) lifted a MASSIVE weight off of my shoulder. For the first time in my life, I understand where I came from, why the things that happened to me happened, and that I'm going to be perfectly fine in the future. I gave the child inside of me a safe place to stretch and play and sleep, because he's no longer scared that his parent will tell him ALL of the terrible things people say to him.
To fight anxiety, your inner child has to trust you and feel safe, which I think is necessary to eliminate fear.
My social anxiety is much less because I am going through a divorce where I suddenly had to flee the house and then get help for me and my daughter. So I had to ask for tons of help from all sorts of people. Worst experience ever, but it got me to ask for help and people were so nice and supportive, and we're going to be ok now, plus my social anxiety is about half of what it was. Like ACT says, do not believe untrue thoughts or unhelpful thoughts - this goes double for self-doubt thoughts, I think!
You have such a positive channel and it's brought a lot of lightness into my recovery from anxiety and depression, thanks 😊
I appreciate you mentioning race as a factor in socializing. It creates an even higher barrier to connection when your difference is so easily discernible. For some reason, the gurus tend to miss that point.
you both are a wonderful and healthy example of being a man, thank you for all of your work.
Brilliant podcast! It is a pleasure to listen to your conversation, I am learning so much ❤ As for the topic itself, which books would you recommend about social anxiety (how to deal with it)?
I loved that Rick used the term “curvilinear.”
My cousin that lived with me growing up , had the same LSD experience with my mom, Rick. My cousin is five years older than me.
A good quote from the School of Life channel regarding resting in a positive framework is, “If I were gonna try and be three things - honest, kind and polite what would I say NOW?”
You are both really great! You always sum it up really well
Wow, what a great episode. Thank you! Greeting from Slovakia.
Gosh l feel so identified with this conversation. Thanks
i simply love u guys
Such helpful content, and so relevant for many, many people. Thank you!
Smothering and non controlled family interaction, educational neglect cause my social anxiety. Competancy is a coping result definitely.
Car alarm analogy is very helpful, thank you. Signaling threat, but no actual threat.
the summary was superb by the way
Another comorbidity that happens with social anxiety is selective mutism and I never hear anyone talk about this! As someone who has been in relationships with 2 people who had it, I wish someone had told me this is a thing and explained it to me and helped me understand it better so I could accommodate and support my partners.
I've learnt so much & I appreciate your candour and knowledge. Thank you both👍
So 'SAD' can be Social Anxiety Disorder as well as Seasonal Affective Disorder
“I want to be alone with my books , cats , and Wordle.” Omg. Those are my 3 favourite things. And I often want to be alone with them! Haha!
Super interesting & helpful! Thanks!!
Thank you for this video 🙏🏽
Love your podcast. Have GAD lol 😂
Oh my goodness. I was the only physically disabled kid in my school, all the way into post grad. I also have ADHD and was found to be "gifted" at the age of 38. I have auditory processing disorder, major depression, and GAD .I moved to a new country 3 years ago. I suddenly lost pretty much everything. Job, assets, family and friends all left behind. I live in the Netherlands now, and I am terrified to leave the house. I am conversationally proficient in Dutch, but I cant get through a social interaction without severe anxiety. The Dutch are awfully direct. I find it very difficult. I cant share a sidewalk with someone. I have actually fallen into a hedge trying to get out of the way. When I left school, I locked that little girl and all her fear and trauma away. Now my children have started school. I have no social connection, and the culture shock has been immense. That little girl has escaped her box, and she's scared of everything. I have therapy tomorrow. It's tough. This makes so much sense. Thank you!
Good luck! Hope you found a therapist that you'll resonate with!
Just watched 2 annoying ads just to support your channel!
Now that's true friendship.
I've been dealing with social anxiety for as long as I've known... all of my succsesses were temporary, it always get's worse again, every single day is like I push a reset button, no matter how far i've come the day before, the next day it doesn't matter anymore. :/ It's been ruining and is still ruining my life. I've done therapies, I've done exposure therapy but every weekend is just a total step back to step one. every day with no interaction is another day that just reinforces my anxiety... sure I have a few friends with whom I'Ve felt comfortable with in the past / a couple of months / weeks ago, but now it is just so intense again that I won't even be brave enough to meet up with them. Even my family invokes this anxiety which just distances me more and more from every person I matter to / which matters to me.. :/ Like I said every succsess is temporary with my anxiety.. after all these years I have no hope left that it will get any better.
This was so, so helpful - thank you! I am really struggling with social anxiety with my partner's tight-knit group of friends. It definitely feels like I have to perform, and when I am not recognized, or when people don't approach me (they often do not), I assume they don't like me and I shut down for the rest of the function. I don't have a good time, and then my partner feels bad. It's been causing some issues in our relationship and I have been feeling at a loss. I don't really have this issue with other people, but I want the people who are closest to my partner to accept me, and that hasn't happened.
It sounds like they could be warmer and/or more inviting towards you.
not saying they are bad people of course but kindness sure goes along way towards an outsider. Maybe gravitate towards the one that is most warm or receptive towards you
He mentioned ‘duka duka’ suffering from suffering. That term is from sinhala language, which is only spoken in Sri Lanka 🇱🇰. You could find pure Buddhism is Sri Lanka ❤
I can relate to the LSD story 😊
Hi Forrest , what brand are the EarPod you have on? Thank you
The section on phobias made me wonder about exposure therapy. I've had emetophobia since i was little and it sort of rules my whole life day to day. Exposure therapy sounds absolutely horrendous for this, is the end level someone throwing up on me? Or am I in a room full of people throwing up everywhere? surely not? How do you even treat this phobia, sounds like a logistical nightmare (and an all around nightmare for me)
It would help if u wud distinguish SAD ( seasonal affective disorder ) from social anxiety disorder. The same acronym can get confusing.
I have enough Social Anxiiety for all of us and would love to share; who want's some of mine!?!?!
id trade you mine for a few days🤝
Lack of anxiety is signs of Psychopath or sociopath.
I think for women one of the anxiety factors comes from the tendency for “bad” women to lie to our faces or pretend to be a friend when they are far from it.