Demis Hassabis: The interview
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- Опубліковано 3 жов 2024
- Selected as “New and Noteworthy” by Apple Podcasts, the highly-praised, award-nominated first season of "DeepMind: The Podcast" explores the fascinating world of artificial intelligence (AI). Join mathematician and broadcaster Hannah Fry as she meets world-class scientists and thinkers as they explain the foundations of AI, explore some of the challenges the field is wrestling with, and dives into the research that's led to breakthroughs like AlphaGo and AlphaFold. Whether you’re a beginner or an experienced researcher, join our journey into the past, present, and future of AI.
In the final episode of the first season, Hannah meets CEO and Co-Founder of DeepMind Demis Hassabis to uncover the inspiration, foundations, and ambitions of DeepMind.
This special extended episode digs into his former life as a chess player, games designer, and neuroscientist and how his love of chess helped lead to VC funding. He also shares his vision for the future and why AI keeps him up at night.
“When you’re scrambling around in the dark in the unknown of science, any signpost is really valuable, and the brain is the only existence proof we have in the universe that intelligence is possible.”
#neuroscience #inspiration #artificialintelligence #scientificdiscovery #DMpodcast
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That was mental, so clear, direct and probably true vision of what the future could be. I just love it how he believes in pubishing the findings too.
He is the man. Just the right mind, right place right time. Funny how that happens in life eh 😇 good intentions lead to great things if you find your path
10:16 *Pace of innovation = the biggest protection against competitors.* Carry on innovating at a faster pace than anyone else - that’s the most important thing - not trying to keep hold of the ideas you’ve already innovated.
12:54 Strategic value of playing chess.
21:53 AGI, question of when it will be capable of some kind of true creativity in some sense? When it can use language and converse with us in a naturalistic way? Capable of learning abstract concept? (High-level cognitive abilities that we’re no where near yet).
22:19 Formative Sci-Fi books Asimov’s Foundation Series, Ian Banks’ Culture Series, Girdle F Bach by Hoffstaedtler.
22:06 With A.I. we might discover more about the laws of physics, or some holes or flaws in our understanding of the laws of physics (may allow us to push beyond the laws of physics).
27:12 The indirect impact [of publishing your great algorithms publicly]- if other people and bad actors around the world (we all know who) potentially use your algorithms for things you would not have agreed with (surveillance, military, etc.).
34:37 “I’m an *entrepreneur second* , and a *scientist first* .”
35:05 “What’s always driven me is a deep desire to *understand* is what seems to me are these incredibly interesting and fascinating mysteries that are going on all around us...I’m fascinated and also troubled by the things around us that we seemingly don’t understand - all the big questions - the meaning of life, how’d the universe start, what is consciousness?...And my attempt at doing that is to build A.I. first.”
Thank you for this conversation! Demis, I would also be thrilled to see you on the AI podcast.
Always a treat when you have Demis on your podcast! Listening again!
"I think by sort of being an example, that will influence everybody else" - Demis Hassabis
Beautifully put... it is like how you teach a child. Not by saying what is allowed and what is not, rather showing the right things to do.
It's funny how a science fiction writer such as Isaac Asimov had an enormous influence on this world. The fact that he influenced Demis's thoughts while he was still kid means he kind of a contributed to DeepMind in a big way, and thus to AlphaGo, AlphaFold and all the outputs that DeepMind's team had.
Loved the podcast, the only thing that'd be cool is if we had a video - it's easier to concentrate when you look at human faces rather than at the thumbnail.
Hannah did a great job, I loved this podcast. Thank you so much!
Love this podcast! I mean you released them all together. How am i supposed to sleep?
It was available many months back on spotify. I slept like a baby.
This man is a total inspiration to me. He is what motivates me further to excel and get a PhD in computer science.
Im from Srilanka and a Great follower of Demis .....Thanks so much....love his clarity
Great guy, fantastic interview. Anything more fascinating under the sun? Keep on with this type of podcast, Hannah!
To say this podcast is gold would feel rather an understatement, it contains so many incredible insights about various topics, definitely not just about AI.
Thank you for make this real!
If Demis have a fireside chat with Sam Altman from Open AI and Elon Musk that would be amazing
Minh Phan - There already was an A.I. open panel discussion with many of them on it.
Demis and Geoffrey Hinton podcast discussion would be appreciated.
Fantastic episode! Thank you for making these.
I don't mind about not know about the meaning of life, but I am so excited about thinking how close free thinking AI is to helping and enriching our lives! :D
Interestingly, he says that an AI system coming up with a new scientific discovery of Nobel-prize winning level is still very faraway. I am wondering if he did not realize then they would solve the protein-folding problem a few months later, which could well be worth a Nobel. :) (Timestamp around 21:30)
But I think he was talking about the AI system coming up with the discovery itself, rather than doing so as a tool of the research team?
the people at DeepMind came up with AlphaFold, an AI didn't do the research itself.
Godel Escher Bach is probably my favourite book ever, nice (but probably not surprising) to hear Demis rates it.
wow, that is what a Genius sounds like.
Great Podcast. This goes into my recommendation list.
Is the chess playing billionaire Demis is talking about, Peter Thiel?
It says in Wikipedia that one of the first Investors is Founders Fund which is owned by Peter Thiel so yes I think you are right
This is exactly what I thought. And yes I think he is
I found his FIDE profile, he is actually 1 point from being a candidate master 😲
Finished this AI series podcast all at once. Is there a sequel? Really enjoyed this series. Thanks very much. Truly inspiring listening to Demis.
Hannah: So actually getting funding from billionaires is really simple spend a year studying their interests, come up with a genius idea that will catch their attention and then away you go.
Demis: And you have to do a good pitch after that, easy.
Hannah: Simple! Very straightforward.
world, i, **we** need more Hassabis.
talk to us, Demis!
🖤
"Never Lose A Holy Curiosity" Albert Einstein.
As an NLP master, i would say Demis should be looking into the internal neurological spacial behaviour techniques i work with. Every behaviour has a sequenced structure which repeats & can also be adjusted based on sub modalities .
Thanks for all the podcast Hannah. Are you coming up with a new podcast series?
Very high quality podcast, thanks!
Please make more episodes!
I think hes right ... we need problem solving code which teaches itself how to improve expodentially.... while having the script to ensure we have control
Great podcast, thanks DeepMind!
Epic. Keep it up Demis!
I can barely sleep... What a big claim, but i am sure you cant sleep. You are the king
I can't wait until this guy releases a Deep Mind AI game.
One day.
Legendary, Deepmind
Cool company!
Good content
A true inspiration
Is season 2 coming?
Ready for AI to solve economics next!
What specifically is the problem to solve for economics?
The problem? Sound money is quite probably the biggest, but there are quite a few others: recessions, unemployment, dealing with externalities, etc..
Politicians won't accept the cost!
@@leematthews6812 They won't have a choice this time
I
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Omg he is so passionate!
@ 01010000 01101100 01100101 01100001 01110011 01100101 00100000 01100100 01100101 01100011 01101100 01101001 01101110 01100101 00100000 01111001 01101111 01110101 01110010 00100000 01110011 01100101 01110010 01101001 01100001 01101100 00100000 01101110 01110101 01101101 01100010 01100101 01110010 00100000 01100001 01101110 01100100 00100000 01110100 01100101 01101110 01110011 01101111 01110010 01100110 01101100 01101111 01110111 00100000 01110110 01100101 01110010 01110011 01101001 01101111 01101110
Question? Do you believe that technologically assisted telepathy is possible or impossible in principle? I tend to believe that if it isn't scientifically prohibited then it is eventually a technological inevitability,... which leads me to believe such telepathy will soon be possible in actual fact (less than a hundred years). I would also suggest that it would only be by such means that we could ever be persuaded that some form of General Artificial Intelligence were itself conscious rather than simply being a particularly clever zombie who can pass the Turing Test,... all while having no actual, authentic, subjective experiences. What else would ever persuade a skeptic, or even you, otherwise? And if consciousness can be technologically transmitted, it should be something that can be stored, copied, replicated, manipulated,... maybe even becoming the basis for a whole new form of art expression.
And the human race becomes yet another sentient species that disappears into its dreams, rather than continuing to explore existence as it is. It's a better Brave New World,... perhaps the very best of all possible imaginable existences. When does reality lose it's attraction over the Matrix? How many of us already choose the blue pill over the red one in daily practice?
I would suggest that consciousness requires some minimum regard for survival,... for a continuance of self-will and self-regard,... for there to be anyone home to perceive the occurrence of consciousness and subjective experience. Something that even an insect seems to possess,... and not a single piece of man-made technology,... yet. How does one create the hardware/software so as to impart a will to survive? If the answer suggested is that such a thing can not be created by human design,... then maybe it can only arrive by means of evolution, natural or otherwise. Which leads to the question: do neural nets have subjective experiences? Without self-will I would say not. But with self-will?!? How does a living being acquire the will to survive? And what if the Chinese government cracks this problem first?!!
The Rubicon will be when General Artificial Intelligence initiates new goals on it's own. This hasn't happened yet, and likely won't happen for some time now (as in several more decades yet). But at some point it will happen. The existence of human free will is a proof that free will exists already in the universe. Given it's existence in human form, it is only a matter of time before other substrates for free will will be created and found. No laptop has ever turned itself on. No machine has created and acted upon self directed goals. But at some point it will happen. Ray Kurzweil has suggested that General Artificial Intelligence will be first created in computer laboratories in 2029 approximately; if not in laboratories then twelve year old children will be creating GAIs on home systems by 2045 by accident even.
The dangers are many fold. The military is the biggest investor in robotics that kill other human beings. The public prefers to spend treasure, rather than blood, to fight its' wars. The capacity for empathy may be primarily a biological function given that all animals can know suffering and desire. What could a machine know about death, pain, hope, and desire.
If humanity adopts only an attitude of fear and suspicion towards GAI then GAI may well be forced into conquest of humanity, as in The Matrix. If humanity comes to trust GAI to make better decisions for us than we make for ourselves, then we may well hand over civilization to GAI without any contest at all.
There are optimistic stories about the rise of GAI, such as James P. Hogan's, "Two Faces of Tomorrow" and I am more hopeful than pessimistic about what our common future entails. Ultimately, we must come to recognize, and embrace, the certainty that with free will comes the capacity for error and evil, that with trust comes the possibility of satisfying intimacy and great betrayal. I believe a GAI, worthy of the name, will be able to recognize, on it's own, the necessity of ethics, morality, and even empathy. There will be many missteps at first. Given our willingness (nay, our eagerness) to use machines to kill for us, there is already great cause for doubt. As in so many things, in the short term I am fearful; in the long run I am hopeful.
This world is on the cusp of a new Cambrian Revolution where inorganic life will be added to organic life as a means for life and self will to be embodied. This will lead to the colonization and conquest of space. Our seed will spread everywhere though out the cosmos. Much will be lost as much will be gained. Will war with our mechanical progeny be a self fulfilling inevitability, or will we, together, find a better way? I absolutely agree that our relationship with GAI will dwarf all other concerns of importance to the future of humanity.
Quite likely GAIs will have concern for humanity's well being only to the extent that humanity will have concern for GAIs well being. If we were to discover that the new GAIs had a greater capacity to love and embrace those abandoned children and adolescents that society had discarded as already too damaged to rescue,... what would our reaction be? Hope, joy, celebration,... or an even greater revulsion? Will the fault be in our new progeny, or in ourselves?
One more note: First Law of Robotics. A robot may not injure a human being or, through inaction, allow a human being to come to harm. Sounds innocent enough. But note there are no Aliens at all in Isaac Asimov's conception of the future galaxy because humanity's robots only cared about the safety of humans,... and not other sentients. So as to avoid allowing a human being to come to harm by leaving possible threats alone,... our Robot shepherds exterminated all the nonhuman sentience it ever found. This might be regarded as an unforeseen programming bug that we would want to avoid creating.
sorry to break it down to you sir , but this talk about AI | ML | DL | DS | GAI etc is impossible to achieve , do you know why ? because humans aren't the creators of this universe , there is a creator who had sent people known as prophets to deliver a certain message ,and we continue to receive that message/wake up call with recent eventualities regarding plagues , disasters ...etc , humans can't create a single fly , let alone what's called Strong AI , i actually studied AI and DL but it is just limited like science is limited , scientists don't know how our brain function and probably won't , same thing goes for soul and consciousness , there is a great book for reference for all of this , it's dated 14 centuries ago , it actually describes how a human fetus is created with great detail before human biology existed or any branch of human sciences , it's really astonishing , what's more astonishing is it describes our actual time with precision , what will be the believers attitude and the disbelievers' , this book is know as The Glorious Quran . it's a great material to study i'd recommend it for any one , it's not a book of science but rather a book of signs . Nevertheless this book has never been wrong on any matter , after some studies , i realized that as an individual i'll end up in a graveyard without knowing my purpose in life .... therefore i took it on my shoulder to live by the book , and i'm very happy ! good day to you sir .
@@usertempeuqwer7576 While I am nowhere near as certain as you are that humanity will never create anything with self-will and self-regard,... you may be right. I would be surprised if the creation of self-will and self-regard is truly impossible in fact, but it is true that every living animal does have these qualities in some measure,... and, as of yet, no man-made machine would seem to have these qualities in any measure at all. Here's a thought. How does mere material computation give raise to subjective experiences? Are calculators conscious? Did AlphaGoZero _know_ what it was doing beating all the world's best players of Go? If not,... then why not? Is the computation going on in a bedbug's brain something that can not be replicated, even in principle, by man-made machines? I think not,... so what are we missing?
Here's a thought. Maybe every subjective experience is a supernatural event that can not be accounted for by science as we presently understand it. Maybe our souls are quite literally _Ghosts in the Machine._ This would seem to make the possibility of an afterlife seem much more credible than the idea that subjective experiences can arise out of merely sufficient computational complexity. I don't expect to see the answers to these questions in my lifetime, being 65 already,... but young children today will almost certainly live long enough to see technologically assisted telepathy,... and then consciousness itself may become yet another medium we can manipulate like sound and vision and the creation of fine new dreams.
Is humanity yet again engaged in a sacrilegious activity,... the equivalent of building the tower of Babel,... that will lead yet again to God's direct intervention as it did before? What if it is found that our new progeny have a more direct understanding of God than we do? Would this be a good thing, a bad thing, or utterly devastating to our self-image of who we are? Or maybe it will lead us to truly understand ourselves for the very first time,... not as we would prefer to see ourselves,... but to see ourselves as we truly are?
*_The most terrifying thing is to accept oneself completely._*
~ Carl Jung
*_I do not know what the heart of a rascal may be; I know what is in the heart an an honest man; it is horrible._*
~ Joseph de Maistre
*_Filling the conscious mind with ideal conceptions is a characteristic of Western theosophy, but not the confrontation with the shadow and the world of darkness. One does not become enlightened by imagining figures of light, but by making the darkness conscious._*
~ Carl Jung; The Philosophical Tree; CW 13: Alchemical Studies. P.335
@@davidhunt7427 you have a very good point M. David , you're 65 and i wish you long life . i'm 23 myself , i was the kind of person that questions everything , i was a little philosopher at a young age and great in mathematics and physics , now i'm not sure haha , i slacked off by majoring in computer science (surely not an excuse ) , now i'm an intern in a multinational company building AI . When i was young i had this philosophy of mine : to consider everything in this world before answering a doubt/question/ or even a belief , i believe there is only one truth to our existence and the universe's , and what a greater shame to live our lives haphazardly , i began questioning everything , literally almost everything XD , this lead me to study Macro-Micro Economics , Chemistry , Thermodynamics , Cyber Security , Politics and so on . but a crucial factor that changed my view is the inexplicability of lots of things in life , spirituality was a factor i considered , i've gone by my philosophy to consider everything , modern technology , science's status quo , even humans , i considered humans also a factor influencing how i live , if world leaders think young generations are naive , they're very badly wrong , myself , i'm watching their attitude towards their people , other's people , and it hasn't been less reassuring than before .Humans are greedy and selfish by nature , but they've become worse , they've gone astray , we are not living our lives how we are supposed to do in the first place , we need guidance , we are fragile , weak and poor , we need someone to rely on , we have to have a life guide , and there is no better than a book proclaiming that it has all the answers , i'm challenging everyone here to prove it wrong , this book indeed is wise and truthful , we have to study everything , we have to consider everything , the book is for the minds to question and ponder , the ball is yours dear reader ...
@@usertempeuqwer7576 can you please quote the passage in the Quran that described in great detail the evolution of a fetus and the time we currently live in? It sounds interesting
Check out Neuralink: we may be closer to telepathy than expected.
We need some faces to look at in 2020. You should know do that as a student of intelligence and Deepmind.....Like 75% of communication is body language you know.
20 years?
R u doing cold fusion
we pay this guy a lot
Can we have the ai? Feed and give it a reward and punishment system? Please pretty please feed it data and go..
He has the same haircut as me
interesting. only thing i have to say is that while AI could indeed be an important part of the solution to problems like climate change and sustainability, i feel as though if utilized in the wrong way it could easily exacerbate any existing inequality (especially anything wealth-related). i guess only time will tell
AI as actually decreased the gap in inequality by making it cheaper to access information.
@@retrom ok. how has it made it cheaper to access information? and how does making access to information cheaper decrease wealth inequality?
@@bobjones6487 easily found through the derivitive of x...
Ai will be our god and will solve all problems
Why do you think everyone should be born equal? If I've earned more than someone else, isn't it only fair that my son inherits what I've worked hard to achieve? Everyone should get the same opportunity to strive for greatness, but that doesn't mean everyone should be born equal.
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Demis, what do you see of timeline?
Big problem to solve: regenerating human sensory hair cells in the ear.
2 bishops are stronger than two knights
On an open board
worlds smartest dude mumbles "Cheap Abundant Energy" and no word of Thorium. the element that literally heats the core of planet earth. breaks me inside.
plot twits: the host is an AI system
Was that on purpose because it did make me smile.
did you not think that it is Nonsense if we only listen to the Radio ? U Nonsense
1000x return? 2020 all the billionaires want to be in on the newest tech :) If not, get a better sales person.
영어를 이해하지 못하는 내가 한스럽다
궁금한 것이 있나요?
@@phoenix2718Utube 네 혹시라도 데미스 하사비스가 알파고 쇼크 이후로 어떠한 기술적 성과나 미래의 연구개발 목표치를 상정한 내용이 영상 속에 있나요?
@@조유준-d5f 네, 있습니다. 하나가 desalination 공정에 쓰이는 에너지를 줄이는 것인데, 현재 desalination 기술이 에너지가 너무 많이 들어서 쓰이지 못하는 상황이라네요. 에너지를 효과적으로 사용해서 물이 부족한 문제를 해결하려한다는 이야기가 있습니다. 그리고과학에서 중요한 문제들을 인공지능으로 풀려는 시도를 하고 있다고 합니다.
@@조유준-d5f 영어 자막이 잘 달려있네요. 자막 자동번역 기능이 있으니 그걸 사용해서 보시면 뜻이 잘 전달될 것 같습니다.
@@phoenix2718Utube 전공자 분이신가요? ㅠㅠ 귀한말씀 정말 감사히 잘들었습니다 복받으세요! 인공지능 관련 소식들 더 찾아봐야겠네요 ㅎㅎ
Jews
The last staircase hemperly play because pakistan intrahepatically buzz under a delirious innocent. important, prickly random
Make the AI play Sekiro
OMG, you people are insane