Thanks for having me on this one!! I know from behind the scenes, editing this was an arduous process for you LOL, so I'm glad it's finally out! Also it's cool that in this game everyone will have their own list/rankings based on how they preferred to play
0:52 and here i thought i was the only one that everytime that says "i guess" Aigis appears in my head, like the Adachi meme. I unfortunately am not even kidding and its starting to make me a little insane.
I’d put Yukari higher since she’s basically mandatory in my party in the early to mid game and preferable for late game but i definitely agree with your points against her. Also, one thing about Power Howling which isn’t great is that you need to either have MC heal or pump a ton of money into healing items. Tranquility, however, Yukari serves as healing and buffer and can facilitate Akihiko and Mitsuru/Ken/Koromaru to insane levels (even if it’s lower than physical)
Genuinely dont understand what they were thinking with Mitsuru, " hey lets make a character whose whole entire purpose is to be a damage nuke and nothing else, but lets also make it so that she ranks 5th as a damage dealer for 80% of the game and even when she finally gets her best gear shes still ranked 3rd in damage dealing potential ". Seriously, why does she not get Ice Amp ? She literally had it in the original P3. Its actually super funny because with a lot if the decision regarding Mitsuru ( making it so that her second Theurgy is almighty and therefore doesnt get boosted by either Ice boost mor Magic Ability, and locking her out of Ice Amp from her skill set ) you can tell that they genuinely believed that shed be " too broken " and needed to nerf her ( ironically even if she did naturally get Ice Amp freeing up her accessory, and her second Theurgy WAS ice type ) shed STILL be second fiddle to both Junpei AND Akihiko due to just how poorly balanced physical skills are in this game The problem with Ken imo, is that the game is nowehere near hatd enough for his kit to ever actually matter, why waste turns casting Tetra/Makarakarn when protag, Junpei, Akihiko and Aigis can finish the boss fight in like 3-4 turns anyway, and for healing he lags significantly behind Yukari not learning key healing spells until much later, and for damage well .... he's a magic user in P3 Reload ...., so his key skills never come into play for most of the game and hes significantly outclassed in all other departments ironically the best thing he has going for him is actually Mahamaon which no one ever uses on him despite it being the only way for him to be able to finish encounters in one turn . He does shine a little in The Answer due to the heigher power level
Wait about Ken what do you mean he doesn’t learn key healing Skills faster? He joins at 37 with Mediarama which is 3 levels faster than Yuka and he also learns Mediarahan faster too. It can also be argued he effectively learns Mediarahan in October due to Divine Intervention spam long long before Yuka gets Mediarahan. Items can cover Ailments pretty easily and the Walls from Divine Intervention prevent them in the first place where Yuka can only handle it after they’ve been inflicted.
I feel like they were trying to make mitsuru not as strong. So they took away her ability to heal fully and ice amp . But then they forgot that they made it physical attacks OP in the game
Good video overall, I agree with a lot of what you said and you approached things from a relatively objective manner. However, I do think you massively underrated Aigis here for several reasons. The big one is actually something that was discovered recently by CTOBN, and that's that the hit rate of multi-hit skills actually scales with Sukukaja, making them much more likely to land more or even all hits and thus having a much higher average damage than what was previous thought, and what the graph for party member damage actually shows. I won't go deep into the formula here because I'm not the one who discovered it, but it is very important when evaluating multi-hit attacks: Multihit effective power (with Sukukaja) - Akasha Arts: ~874.25 - Shining Arrows: ~683.17 - Myriad Arrows: ~663.61 - Blade of Fury: ~483.77 - Tempest Slash: ~472.20 - Torrent Shot: ~345.55 - Arrow Rain: ~254.99 - Swift Strike: ~174.85 This has a very positive impact on Aigis and even Junpei/Shinjiro's placement, making Myriad Arrows and Blade of Fury actually stronger on average than Akihiko's Gigantic Fist, with both of these being multi-target and thus inherently more versatile. To me, this is a pretty definitive reason to put Aigis ahead of Akihiko from a pure damage standpoint when considering the game in totality, since she is better than him for both early and mid-game, essentially outclassing his non-theurgia damage output until he gets God's Hand, but by that point Aigis will have Maximum Firepower anyways which will close the gap when actually considering Theurgia given it has a much higher damage potential especially when not relying on Shift Boosters and down bonus (as they are not applicable for Nyx, for example). I also think you somewhat neglected to mention Akihiko's lack of strong multi-target skills as a drawback to his practical usage, which I feel is pretty major. His main thing he has over Aigis is that his critical hit rate is overall more consistent when facing single-targets, but crits are already pretty reliable with just the additive boosters alone and against multiple foes, AoE crit spam is just more reliable anyhow. Akihiko's crit rate is also just not really that impressive when compared to the likes of Junpei and Shinjiro, either. I don't blame you for not being aware of the jank regarding multi-hits, but do you think it'd personally change your opinion on the rankings at all, or at least convince you to move Aigis higher? I was also surprised that you didn't at all mention her acquisition of Insta-heal and Enduring Soul, which are extremely powerful supportive passives which basically make her an unkillable wall and more reliable ailment cleanser than Yukari is (lmao)
Right the Sukukaja discoveries, those were very recent so i forgot to include the text in the image xD but the chart does account for that increase, I think the main reason why Aigis' line is reflected lower is mainly due to crit rate stuff, tho I'm not 100% sure. And definitely Aigis is great! and I may have come off as downplaying her strengths (mb :P) but she's super good too, my reasoning behind placing her not in "broken" is due to the fact that there is not a single point in the game where she can outdamage Junpei and Akihiko at the same time, when the other two can outshine the rest of phys attackers at some point in the game. But Aigis does have the third best AoE damage among party members, so it's not to shabby at all. And just as a final thing, addresing God's Hand and Maximum Firepower, while I think Aigis' 2nd theurgy is a much better value than the one Aki brings to the table, her TP charge is sadly, one of the slowest in the game, while Aki has the third fastest and can rotate between spamming his strike skills and using his theurgy as a backup every other turn. But when it comes to utility and flexibility, Aigis definitely has Akihiko beat, this is just my opinion after CTOBN brainwashed me into the church of Akihiko, cheers Shio ✌️
@@tuvieeclips I can see the argument, and there's also the fact that Aki and the others can get access to things like auto-rebellion much easier than she can. I think overall the debate between Aki vs Aigis is more subjective than I initially thought, even if to me its quite a no brainer to use Aigis over him. I think even when Akihiko puts up good or even better results, there is also just the matter of versatility and synergy with the rest of the party. Akihiko finds himself in a very awkward spot where his best move for the majority of the game, Gigantic Fist, is also learned by another and much better physical character within Junpei. This poses a problem for him when wanting to build a team comp which covers more ground overall. Aigis' role with multi-target/high damage pierce skills, Matarukaja and strong defensive passives isn't filled by any other character within the party, which helps her have a more clearly defined purpose and cohesion within the group. When I'm limited to a 4-man team comp, and I always want to have Junpei and Koromaru on the team no matter the situation, I only have one extra slot to fill. To me, Aigis serves that role much better than Akihiko because I'd argue she just has more practical application overall along with filling a wholly unique role for the team, meanwhile Akihiko quite literally is just a Great Value Junpei until he gets his God's Hand. The Theurgia point is fair though honestly, Aki's is inherently more spammable than Aigis' is, but from my POV, Theurgia charges so fast no matter which character you're using, and you can always just charge it up before a boss fight anyways, so i don't think the mildly slower charge is that much of an issue. I'd much rather take the higher potential damage along with the rest of her kit in all honesty. Now if only Atlus didn't fuck up the tactics AI in this game so that Orgia Mode could *actually* shine in the way its supposed to...
@@ShioSatou If I may offer my input on a few of your arguments Regarding "Akihiko Gigantic Fist is just discount Junpei Gigantic Fist", Junpei doesn't actually even get Gigantic Fist until level 47, 8 levels after Akihiko does. Additionally, assuming the absolute lowest level possible while matching the main character's level (for the sake of my sanity, as IDK how else to measure level/progress ratios objectively) at any given point in the game, only 6 levels after Junpei gets Gigantic Fist is when Akihiko can get Double Ziggurat, allowing him to stack Strike Boost and Strike Amp (note that the earliest you can get materials for Strike Amp accessories is 60, and Junpei doesn't have a weapon with either to stack them). This leaves a range of about 6 levels (47-52) where Akihiko is "Great Value Junpei" going solely by that metric. Even during that window, the math actually works out such that Akihiko actually hits slightly (and I do admittedly mean "slightly") harder than Junpei with Gigantic Fist. Pretty much everything you said about Aigis I think is appropriate, with one (or two depending on perspective) exceptions. You mention her "high damage pierce skills" and "strong defensive passives" setting her apart. I think her "high damage pierce skills" find themselves in a similar position to what you argue Aki's Gigantic Fist does. The difference there is that Junpei outdoes Aigis in Pierce damage from Aigis's recruitment up until level 43 when Aigis gets Myriad Arrows (so level range of 27-43). As for her "strong defensive passives", while they are quite nice (I don't think any rational person would dissent to me stating that Enduring Soul, Resist Phys, and Insta-Heal are good), up until around level 60 (God's Hand on Aki is 72 btw) she really just gets Fast Heal. Fast Heal is certainly nice, being functionally indistinguishable from Insta-Heal for Freeze, Shock, or Dizzy, and limiting the number of turns lost to mind ailments to 1, I don't think Fast Heal alone is the level of good you were referring to. I won't dissent to any arguments about multi-target being valuable (it is), Aigis being more versatile (she is), Aigis being more immediately useful (Sonic Punch holds early game Aki back so much), or even the value of Matarukaja (in spite of Matarukaja potatoes, Autos, and the general length of fights). With regard to what you say on theurgy charge I think there's a few things to note here. To start, the difference between Akihiko and Aigis in terms of actual charge speed (for Tartarus), realistically is 1 turn, unless all of those turns don't begin with Charge/Concentrate and Aigis gets at least 1 crit (her crit rates are terrible, so this is far from a given). A bigger thing that sets apart their ability to charge theurgy is that Aigis can't charge it during Orgia Mode or Overheat (though she can charge Fuuka's still). This essentially means that Akihiko just loses his bar when he spends his theurgy, while Aigis both spends it and throws away her ability to charge it for the rest of the fight. More significantly on theurgy charge, I would personally argue that filling theurgy in preparation for a boss is a form of grinding. Now whether "grinding" is a valid point to consider regarding character viability, or how much grinding is acceptable in that regard, isn't something I think we can find a universal consensus on. Personally though, I'd generally argue that "the best strategy" for a given fight would inherently be the best one that doesn't demand grinding (as said strategy would generally also work after grinding too). Additionally, before most actual bosses you can't do anything to fill the bar in advance. All you can do is setup party members with healing skills to be under half SP. As an example, during the Strength/Fortune fight there is no way (to my knowledge) to use Junpei's theurgy without either giving him 3 actions (which implies killing Strength before it gets to move) or giving Strength an action (so Fortune can hit Junpei's weakness). To tell you the whole truth I don't know which of Akihiko or Aigis is preferable more often (as in for more notable fights). If your 4th slot just needs to be able to reliably Shift to Makoto or Junpei, then I will say Elec is the most common weakness among bosses or minibosses, but even for that about 40% of them have no weakness anyways. I am working on a project that will, I hope at least, give me a more clear and definitive answer for this. For the time being though I just thought I had something worth saying in regards to a few of your points and felt that it'd be worth stating outright.
So for some reason, I didn’t stick around to the video until Shinjiro’s part until today. Came back cuz a friend and I were shocked at Shinjiro having Debilitate and Firm Stance this whole time. Most players would have Shinji go away in level 30s, so sometimes I wonder why do they even bother putting skills till level 75 for a character up that will only be available for two blocks 😂 I think the Reaper video didn’t give Shinjiro the full picture at how good he is. You just modded him in to January while being in the exact same level you left it on, so it left me thinking if he could possibly out damage Junpei had he was level 99 like others?
Shinji comes at 39 so its more like low 40s he’ll leave. The reason they gave him level up Skills like everyone else is so its not immediately obvious in gameplay that hes gonna go. They show the Dps per level Chart at 42:29 with the Dashed Blue Being Shinji.
@@tuvieeclips ahh makes sense. I just visited that video again and I’m guessing Shinji without Bloody Charge and Shift wouldn’t have enough damage to one shot the Reaper?
sorry for the wall of text. the video is very well made even though i disagree on a lot! also all of this is going to be entirely in reference to the discussion, the tier last at the end is stated to be based on minmaxing so i'm not trying to argue with any placements there. i think metric is incredibly important in any discussion. its pretty clear that late game is weighted more heavily here and that characters aren't really penalized for availability or really wanting craftable/contested accessories. i'll start with the stuff i dont really disagree with yukari stinks. items do her job better than she does. her early game is terrible, gets 1 shot by guardians w/o gear. protag and junpei reliably tank 1 hit w/o gear. her availability is fantastic and a good chunk of it is uncontested, so i don't think i'd put her bottom 1 for that reason alone but she is realistically never your best choice for any encounter once she can be swapped out shinjiro is the best while hes around. his level and raw stats eclipse everyone else. even protag is kind of struggling to get charge. endure at this point in the game is nuts and lets him be super risky with being under 50% for his gauge. his abysmal availability would probably make me call him bottom 1 but hes great while hes around, given the context of what you have available at that point in the game. akihiko. the only thing i'd add is the more you limit resources (no random encounters, less craftable equipment, etc) the better tarunda gets and hes a huge bulk booster for the entire party in the early to midgame fights which is huge. this lets a level 14 yukari reliably survive during hierophant. the sonic punch thing is definitely a weakness but its actually not that bad. you only really notice the damage drop off in first half of yabbashah and chariot and justice, but after that he learns elec boost. zionga + elec boost even tho it cant crit is pretty good damage output for that point in the game assuming he has his characteristic, and it also gives him an elec boosted AOE theurgy for guardian fights. basically hes suffering for a couple guardian fights and chariot + justice and thats it. i think i'd pretty easily put him as top 1 ken. divine intervention is a literal win button in every fight after you get it. i think its safe to say w/ divine intervention ken is top 1 BUT he joins sort of late and divine intervention comes even later. the fact you can only use it for a limited amount of time would make me put ken somewhere in the middle of the pack now the stuff i sort of disagree with junpei i've come around to a good deal but i also think he has very major flaws and is currently pretty overrated. his early game while a lot better than yukaris is still pretty wack. his base stats are solid but it takes him a while to learn a good offensive skill and a lot of early game enemies use wind. he also competes with akihiko for rushing his trait, and generally i think akihikos is both better and much more useful to get before hierophant. also he really does need both equipment AND frequent use in the party to reach his maximum potential which i would argue are both huge downsides. junpei makes use of contested resources very well but they are still contested resources. aigis. i think this one is purely metric. the less resources you have the better aigis gets. taru/rakukaja become way more useful when you are a lower level and have less access to craftable items. also on the extreme end of things on minimum encounters (not including glitching past gatekeepers) her bulk is actually really important in a few places and other party members struggle to match it. i think shes overall better than junpei but not as good as someone like akihiko or mitsuru lastly the stuff i HARD disagree with mitsuru is the most underrated character in the game. i think people don't understand how good "just being a rakunda bot" is once you eliminate grinding. if you cant outfit your entire party to maximize damage then someone who just casts rakunda suddenly shoots up in usefulness. her damage output when she joins is actually decent. the damage chart that gets referenced throughout makes a couple assumptions that hurt her. those being that level is equal to enemies, party members have the same level as the protagonist and equipment is obtained at the earliest possible level. eliminating grinding as a factor mitsuru will join overleveled and you will consistently be a lower level than the enemy even with reloads obscene exp gain on guardians/bosses. her damage is fine for a little bit after she joins, but it will start to fall off like a rock since she doesnt get ice boost til well after magic has fallen off. but she still joins with rakunda. you start taking in the fact you might only be able to outfit one or two characters with their ideal gear and suddenly filling your third slot with someone who just casts rakunda doesnt seem all that bad. also her not learning an amp doesn't matter. no one learns an amp until basically the end of the game anyway. if she is getting penalized for wanting an amp accessory then 1. everyone should be penalized for wanting an amp accessory and 2. junpei should be penalized for wanting apt pupil. koromaru. if mitsuru is the most underrated koro is the most overrated. i think a lot of his strengths here are heavily upplayed so i wanna try and put some things into perspective. he has sketchy availability, missing out on the first 40% of the game is definitely something to be penalized for (same w/ ken) debilitate is a literal non factor. he is not guaranteed to learn it by the end of the game without pretty liberal usage and if he does its gonna be on the final day after jin or takaya. its not a great skill vs nyx because she cleanses debuffs between phases. can be good vs the physical phases or the final phase if you aren't prepped since they hit pretty hard but divine intervention does a better job at it. getsu-ei on paper hits hard yeah, but lets look at the full moon fights koro is around for hermit: he won't have it w/o excessive grinding strength+fortune: hes actually not guaranteed to have it here unless hes used a lot. on top of this strength resits phys that leaves takaya+jin, hanged man, chidori, jin, takaya, and nyx. chidori is scripted and jin is a joke fight so thats a whopping four bosses fought on a full moon. revolution and power howling are definitely his best aspects. his gauge is real bad though. if you arent taking random encounters that means you have to map out charging his theurgy which will give him like 1 maybe 2 uses per block of tartarus. you can bring him to fights hes not great for to try and charge an extra use but now you are basically making one encounter harder/less reliable to make another encounter easier/more reliable. vs bosses its pretty long between charges like is stated in the video. i do think koro is good. theres some guardians that having power howling prepped for is really good and revolution is always great. but i think how good he is here is vastly over exaggerated and kind of ignores the context of the game.
To be honest, I feel that Atlus should've just brought back High Energy as a skill Yukari learns when Io becomes Isis and Fighting Spirit for Junpei as Hermes becomes Trismegistus which given when that happens would best fit Junpei's Character development. I also don't understand why they gave Koromaru Revolution and Junpei Fire Break as Koro is the team's Fire Magician (pun intended) and Junpei is about landing homeruns on enemies (pun intended)
Yes I was expecting obviously different opinions so no worries, while I there are some points that i can definitely see Junpei is undeniably the best DPS for the entirety of the game, trait or no, and due to the nature of killing everything fast weaknesses can even be beneficial due to TP charge Koromaru provides an all rounder kit with getsu, revolution and power howling which all are super low level and still provide insane value to any phys comp but mitsuru idk man, even if you can commit to using ice amp accesory doesn't take from the fact that magic is subpar and will be outdamaged by any phys user for the entirety of the game, maybe if she had a trait like auto marakunda or smth i would see her in a better light, however as it stands from my perspective there is 0 reason to run her when she's outshined in damage and utility
OK there's a couple things here I think are worth weighing in on Getsu-ei isn't much weaker 1 day before or after a full moon than it is on a full moon (1 day before/after is something like 97.14% of full power), that expands the range of "early Getsu-ei is huge" to potentially everything in Tartarus, and at that point its availability is essentially just "everything once he reaches level 39." The only possible way you wouldn't have Debilitate on Koromaru "by the end" is if you haven't been keeping Koro up to MC's level. It's impossible glitchless to reach the final boss under level 78, and Koromaru learns Debilitate at level 77. Additionally, I'd personally argue that fights are so fast in reload that (provided you keep Koro as a permanent fixture of the party) you literally do not need Debilitate for anything until after he would be assured to get it anyways. My perspective on Koromaru's gauge is that yeah, it is bad (sadly), but the payoff for having it is so immensely powerful that it becomes the single most valuable resource in the game. You also have to use Koro to charge it past the 50% you can get for free by starting tartarus runs on Sundays so. It's also only slow to charge for tartarus it's genuinely just average charge speed for actual bosses. I made the damage chart, and the parameters all work in Mitsuru's favor (to some extent by design). It gives her Ice Amp at level 43 (since getting it earlier is just impossible unless Mitsuru's level is lower than Makoto's level), results in (to a slight degree) relatively low crit rates for phys party members (favoring the magic ones), and even gives her the full 1.15x from Concentrate (which intrinsically assumes fights go to turn 2, that she gets an even number of chances to deal damage, and that she lacks Tranquility Support). She does join overleveled (by up to 6 levels), but that doesn't take too long to level out.
@@cantthinkofbettername5065 thanks for both the reply and chart, appreciate the work! yes 78 is the lowest the protagonist can be but that does not mean party members will keep up in level. it literally just depends who gets used for what fight. my point is mostly just any skills that are lv 75+ are being obtained on the last day, or potentially not obtained at all so i don't really care about them. an extra 50% to his gauge on sundays would help sure, thats something i wasnt considering but my point still stands, you have to plan around it and it isn't a resource you will have constantly. all of this also including he misses out on a large chunk of the game. again i'm not saying power howling isn't good i'm saying koromaru has a lot of flaws that i would argue make him not as good as people say. the mitsuru comment i think i didn't make myself very clear, so sorry if that was the case. i was referring exclusively to when she first joins and has a noticeable difference in level. i agree that once ice amp is a consideration your chart is lenient with her. there are quite a few stipulations i don't agree with but its a useful resource nonetheless!
@@tuvieeclips junpei is not undeniably the best damage dealer in all scenarios that is just factually incorrect. i spent a lot of time doing testing just to make sure im not talking out of my ass and he really does need resources to keep up. i can compile the footage and post it if you like but the gist of it is if you do not take into account craftable gear, and don't use accessories junpei is wayyyy less impressive. a party of aigis/koromaru/junpei at lv 75 w/ the stipulations i just mentioned is outputting roughly the same damage as mitsuru/akihiko/aigis. this is the point of the game where koromaru/junpei should be at their best, mind you. also in these tests mitsuru literally did not attack she just cast rakunda. koromaru provides a lot good but the point i was making is his availability is lackluster and he has some notable flaws. the mitsuru comment really makes me feel the need to emphasize that anything i talk about in regards to strength is in the context of having limited resources. grinding is a complete non factor for me since a character that performs well without additional resources will always perform well but a character that needs to rely on contested or variable resources to be better is always going to be weaker regardless of how high the ceiling is.
I feel like Mitsuru overall is quite an improvement, my only problem is that Reload is such a phys dominant game there’s almost no reason to not use the phys dominant party members instead. Yukari and Mitsuru’s build in Reload would go nuts in the original game, especially Rakunda + Tranquillity/Concentrate + Diamond Dust which is the equivalent of Niflheim in the OG Tbh I feel like all party members have been buffed in some way or another, prob the only exceptions would be Akihiko and Aigis to some extend due to them losing their buffs/debuffs a little? Even then, they’re great for what they are and eventually you can just use Debilitate late game. I remember getting so stupidly excited when Yukari gets Amrita Drop/Shower, I had to grind for Salvation to get a party-wide ailment cure in the OG lol
Swap Ken and Junpei, Aigis and Akihiko, and move Yukari up a tier and it’s my list. I use Yukari over Ken, but that’s only because I don’t like the new Ken voice lol. Again, I’ve mentioned, vast majority of SMT games are hardest at the start, this is no exception, and Junpei and Akihiko are definitely the worst early on, Mitsuru being the exception. I’m sure people who played The Answer remember how Ken didn’t learn a healing move until Mediarama, which wasn’t innate, so he sucked in the answer. Glad he’s better now. Koromaru just doesn’t lose usability, and Heat Riser is obviously really good because if Makoto was in this list he would be probably a solid 9 tiers above Koromaru, so buffing and debuffing is essential. So some of my favourite compositions are: Early Game: Yukari Akihiko Aigis Mid Game: Ken Aigis Koromaru End Game Koromaru Ken Junpei End game Junpei / Aigis is honestly debatable for me, because IMO it’s just not worth investing ANYBODYS turn economy into buffing Junpei, and while Aigis’s Ma skills help, Ken and Koro are obvious main stays, so Aigis can’t buff Junpei, and Ken should obviously NEVER use heat riser on anyone but Makoto, and Koromaru is obviously a Debilitate Revolution machine. So yeah, Aigis / Junpei is debatable, but I know how much you love showing of Junpei’s damage lol so I won’t argue with him being useful end game. I won’t rank Shinjiro, because you know. I’d like to here what you think are optimal due to your list at different parts of the game. I considered Early Game up until Shinjiro join, Mid Game up until Adamah is unlocked in January and End Game everything post Adamah’s unlock, though an argument could be made for a Post Game category, I think most people, immediately kill the reaper upon reaching Adamah and therefore reaching level 99 basically straight away. Anyway, great video Tuviee! Definitely worth the wait, good to see Bainz here as well!
Junpei is actually not weak early game. He has a lot going for him such as his base Theurgy being really strong, he can get access to Crit Amp before Shinjiro even joins, and you also get access to Rebellion early on which is worth slapping on him. Unless you're using DLC or going out of your way to dump money on the Velvet Room which is rough early game because you need social stats, MC is not going to do high damage early on. Vacuum Slash does a lot of damage and then from there he goes to Assault Dive and Torrent Shot. He even does more damage than Yukari during the first full moon boss because it has a hidden "weakness" to fire. After Shinjiro joins he'll get Blade of Fury and by the time Shinjiro leaves he'll have Deathbound or be really close to getting Deathbound. He also gets Juzumaru very early, though he is stuck with it all the way until November when he can get the Qingdi Blade. Plus he doesn't have a big weakness to any of the early full moon bosses.
I like P4 and P5 more than 3 but Koro is the greatest party member in the entire modern trilogy. Such a cool kit & every moment he’s onscreen is so fun, I couldn’t stop smiling
My list: 1. Yukari Best Girl 💖👑: Healing Apex is the best characteristic in the game reducing in 75% the SP cost of healing skills, she has the fastest way to charge her Theurgy by healing someone every time, if you want to survive and don't buy healing items, she's essential as well. 2. Koromaru Best dog: Powerful dark and fire skills, his high agility makes him untouchable, Power Howling to give Charge to all the party is really good, Revolution to increase the critical rate and Debilitate to reduce all the enemy stats. 3. Aigis: Really strong physical and some useful support skills, her Theurgy charges faster every time she uses a physical attack combined with her characteristic of increasing the damage of all physical attacks and she's the most resistant party member. 4. Ken: A really good versatile character, good electric and light skills, heal and revive allies, Tetrakarn and Makarakarn to reflect attacks and Divine Intervention is the best Theurgy in the game without counting the Armageddon. 5. Akihiko: Still a good party member, strong physical and electric skills, his characteristic of increasing the buff effects on himself can be useful and him and Aigis are the only ones with an AOE Theurgy. 6. Junpei: His physical skills are really good and his characteristic of increasing the critical rate and the critical damage is really good, this combined with Revolution or Bloody Charge you can destroy the enemies, but his magic stat is really low. 7. Mitsuru: She's the strongest magic attacker in the game but that's all, mental ailments against over leveled enemies or bosses are completely useless and there are some ailments that are not very useful, she has Concentrate but we can use Yukari to give Concentrate to all the party and her second Theurgy makes Almighty damage ignoring resistances and reduce all the enemy stats, but Almighty attacks already ignores resistances, so this doesn't make sense and Koromaru can use Debilitate to reduce all the enemy stats more frequently, all she can do, anyone else can do it better than her. 8. Shinjiro: He's completely broken, I don't deny that, but he's at the bottom just because you can only use him for a month and one full moon mission.
Interesting list. Lategame my main team was Yukari/Akihiko/Aigis with Koromaru being switched in for Yukari once I could great clock get him debilitate. Never used Junpei or Ken even though I know they're good if you can get them to work. I'd love to see a tier list of like midgame party compositions and things like that. Great video!
Best p3 ytber, could you maybe do a maskado build? I love his design and when he does vorpal blade it’s like he’s using his katana for that. Or if you could share some tips to build him as op as possible. Thank you
Masakado is so weird to me because he's cleanly meant to be a slash user but he uses pierce i would suggest something like Brave Blade/Heaven's Blade Slash Amp Slash Boost Single-target boost Apt Pupil Arms Master Crit rate amp Multi-Target Boost
I only carry one attack of each type (Myriad Arrows and Akasha). I went with Dekunda as none of Aigis's other options appealed to me, and from my experience, I get hit with debuffs a lot...
If anyone else in the comments here has any technical questions about the game, feel free to ask me btw. Also I'm impressed by the amount of effort that clearly went into the editing for this.
Your ranking is great if you are only taking raw amount of damage, but if you take all the tools that a character has there is a lot of biased opinion here. I'm a pro persona player I've played FES and all the "hardest vanilla games", so what I will say is more about the experience in the franchise. Koromaru is the best character in the game outside of Fuuka and MC and I completely support that. It is the only that has access to 4 elements, its best armor null light and has the most amount of tools. Yukari is terrible in damage, and is true that you get a lot of hp items in the game, but in reload money is extremely scarce, in FES around you get Shinjiro you can have easily around a million of yen in reload if you are lucky you have two hundred thousand, even using the fortune teller, and all the healing items are extremely expensive, so having a character that can do that helps a lot. For me just for that reason Yukari is the second best character in the game, and mitsuru, her and Akihiko are needed for boss fights as early junpei is terrible and they are the only source of having a debilitate for boss fights. Magic is awful in reload, but is still a tool that you can use to get AOA. So tranquility is a win, also you can use Yukari healing even if you don't need heal and still charges her theurgy. Ken theurgy charging speed is not fixed, when he is close to none sp he charge each turn his theurgy when you get the fortune. Ken has so many tools 3 elements, healing, fast theurgy, his damage is terrible, but he is an extremely good support and dekaja is needed as more enemies use heat riser as the game advance, ken can't cure ailments and was nerfed as in FES he was the second wind user. Divine intervention is the most broken attack, also he gets heat riser. Ken gameplay is about burning his sp pool with highly cost SP sttacks. Koromaru, Yukari and Ken are the only characters outside of fuuka that have a theurgy that can help the whole party. The rest of the characters have only damage oriented theurgy outside of the MC. Junpei is here, you only forgot to say that he can cover 4 elements, all physical and fire and that he has a weapon that bypass any weakness. Akihiko is here and you say it all, only you forgot that he can use also ice attacks. Mitsuru is here and you forgot that she can use dark attacks having 3 elements. Mitsuru gameplay is about powering freeze ailment as freeze is the best ailment in the game. Aigis is the great in damage, but she can only use buff if the enemy nulls of repel physical. Fortunately she has a weapon that bypass all the weaknesses. Also she resist ailments and can revive. She always will cover 2 elements. Shinjiro is a much worst Akihiko with his thor weapon, only one theurgy his theurgy works the opposite of Ken's theurgy and both have the same speed. The biggest problem of Shinjiro is that his characteristic is useless, the second problem with Shinjiro is how limited is his gameplay. Bloody charge+ physical. Bloody charge +theurgy. If he survived October 4th, he will be the tankiest character next to Aigis, other problem with Shinjiro is that he has less weapons that any character and you have to choose between his ultimate or his thor weapon, the first one to be faster and start with a heavy hitting attack or the thor one if you have an opponent that nulls of repel physical. Nonetheless a worst Aigis, a worst junpei, a worst Akihiko.
@@ShadowOfMassDestruction it is ok if you support his opinion, but playing persona is not about doing the most amount of damage, but knowing all the tools that each party member has.
~70% x 2 x sqrt(300) + ~30% x 1 x sqrt(300) gives you an average power of sqrt(867), which is higher than God's Hand sqrt(800). The rate of the number of hits here assumes that sukukaja is in effect. If it isn't, God's Hand deals more damage on average.
@@tuvieeclips Ah well. At least you can build any type of party since there’s no objectively bad characters. So her theurgy could be useful. There’s also King and I.
To give you a more technical explanation why it doesn't. Each skill is "assigned" a damage type (between physical and magic, they're also assigned an element too, but that's besides the point). As you can probably guess, the Slash, Strike, and Pierce theurgies are "assigned" to be physical type, while the others are "assigned" to be magic type. However, due to the unique damage formula used by theurgies, this doesn't affect the offensive stat used for calculations. A similar phenomenon occurs for All-Out Attacks, where they're "assigned" to be magic type, but the lone "All-Out Attack" damage formula uses Strength. Normally this would mean that All-Out Attack would consume Makoto's Concentrate, but there's an explicit check in place that prevents it from using either for All-Out Attacks in particular.
Thanks for having me on this one!! I know from behind the scenes, editing this was an arduous process for you LOL, so I'm glad it's finally out! Also it's cool that in this game everyone will have their own list/rankings based on how they preferred to play
it was certainly a long process but i really enjoyed collabing with you, keep up the great stuff my dear bainzy boy✌️
rewatching it after seeing a lot of others persona tier lists, and I may say - this is an actually constructive and funny video.
thank you! I really put a lot of effort into researching stuff for this video, I'm glad you enjoyed it
Just give Shinji a Null Pierce accesory and he'll be immortal lmao what y'all playing
brother 😭😭
The peak of persona 3 reload content has been uploaded! It can only go downhill from here!
tyy ziroo means a looot
0:52 and here i thought i was the only one that everytime that says "i guess" Aigis appears in my head, like the Adachi meme. I unfortunately am not even kidding and its starting to make me a little insane.
lmao
you are not alone
If shinji had firm stance and endure on October 4 takya pistol must do 9999 damage
💀
I've been running a NG+ on Merciless since the game is very different once you understand the mechanics. Looking forward to the video.
I’d put Yukari higher since she’s basically mandatory in my party in the early to mid game and preferable for late game but i definitely agree with your points against her.
Also, one thing about Power Howling which isn’t great is that you need to either have MC heal or pump a ton of money into healing items. Tranquility, however, Yukari serves as healing and buffer and can facilitate Akihiko and Mitsuru/Ken/Koromaru to insane levels (even if it’s lower than physical)
About damn time
Good work Ivan
And very well edited video
ty legend u the best
Genuinely dont understand what they were thinking with Mitsuru, " hey lets make a character whose whole entire purpose is to be a damage nuke and nothing else, but lets also make it so that she ranks 5th as a damage dealer for 80% of the game and even when she finally gets her best gear shes still ranked 3rd in damage dealing potential ". Seriously, why does she not get Ice Amp ? She literally had it in the original P3. Its actually super funny because with a lot if the decision regarding Mitsuru ( making it so that her second Theurgy is almighty and therefore doesnt get boosted by either Ice boost mor Magic Ability, and locking her out of Ice Amp from her skill set ) you can tell that they genuinely believed that shed be " too broken " and needed to nerf her ( ironically even if she did naturally get Ice Amp freeing up her accessory, and her second Theurgy WAS ice type ) shed STILL be second fiddle to both Junpei AND Akihiko due to just how poorly balanced physical skills are in this game
The problem with Ken imo, is that the game is nowehere near hatd enough for his kit to ever actually matter, why waste turns casting Tetra/Makarakarn when protag, Junpei, Akihiko and Aigis can finish the boss fight in like 3-4 turns anyway, and for healing he lags significantly behind Yukari not learning key healing spells until much later, and for damage well .... he's a magic user in P3 Reload ...., so his key skills never come into play for most of the game and hes significantly outclassed in all other departments ironically the best thing he has going for him is actually Mahamaon which no one ever uses on him despite it being the only way for him to be able to finish encounters in one turn . He does shine a little in The Answer due to the heigher power level
Wait about Ken what do you mean he doesn’t learn key healing Skills faster? He joins at 37 with Mediarama which is 3 levels faster than Yuka and he also learns Mediarahan faster too. It can also be argued he effectively learns Mediarahan in October due to Divine Intervention spam long long before Yuka gets Mediarahan. Items can cover Ailments pretty easily and the Walls from Divine Intervention prevent them in the first place where Yuka can only handle it after they’ve been inflicted.
I feel like they were trying to make mitsuru not as strong. So they took away her ability to heal fully and ice amp .
But then they forgot that they made it physical attacks OP in the game
Good video overall, I agree with a lot of what you said and you approached things from a relatively objective manner. However, I do think you massively underrated Aigis here for several reasons. The big one is actually something that was discovered recently by CTOBN, and that's that the hit rate of multi-hit skills actually scales with Sukukaja, making them much more likely to land more or even all hits and thus having a much higher average damage than what was previous thought, and what the graph for party member damage actually shows. I won't go deep into the formula here because I'm not the one who discovered it, but it is very important when evaluating multi-hit attacks:
Multihit effective power (with Sukukaja)
- Akasha Arts: ~874.25
- Shining Arrows: ~683.17
- Myriad Arrows: ~663.61
- Blade of Fury: ~483.77
- Tempest Slash: ~472.20
- Torrent Shot: ~345.55
- Arrow Rain: ~254.99
- Swift Strike: ~174.85
This has a very positive impact on Aigis and even Junpei/Shinjiro's placement, making Myriad Arrows and Blade of Fury actually stronger on average than Akihiko's Gigantic Fist, with both of these being multi-target and thus inherently more versatile. To me, this is a pretty definitive reason to put Aigis ahead of Akihiko from a pure damage standpoint when considering the game in totality, since she is better than him for both early and mid-game, essentially outclassing his non-theurgia damage output until he gets God's Hand, but by that point Aigis will have Maximum Firepower anyways which will close the gap when actually considering Theurgia given it has a much higher damage potential especially when not relying on Shift Boosters and down bonus (as they are not applicable for Nyx, for example). I also think you somewhat neglected to mention Akihiko's lack of strong multi-target skills as a drawback to his practical usage, which I feel is pretty major. His main thing he has over Aigis is that his critical hit rate is overall more consistent when facing single-targets, but crits are already pretty reliable with just the additive boosters alone and against multiple foes, AoE crit spam is just more reliable anyhow. Akihiko's crit rate is also just not really that impressive when compared to the likes of Junpei and Shinjiro, either.
I don't blame you for not being aware of the jank regarding multi-hits, but do you think it'd personally change your opinion on the rankings at all, or at least convince you to move Aigis higher? I was also surprised that you didn't at all mention her acquisition of Insta-heal and Enduring Soul, which are extremely powerful supportive passives which basically make her an unkillable wall and more reliable ailment cleanser than Yukari is (lmao)
Woah thats honestly so sick. Love the jank!
Right the Sukukaja discoveries, those were very recent so i forgot to include the text in the image xD
but the chart does account for that increase, I think the main reason why Aigis' line is reflected lower is mainly due to crit rate stuff, tho I'm not 100% sure.
And definitely Aigis is great! and I may have come off as downplaying her strengths (mb :P) but she's super good too, my reasoning behind placing her not in "broken" is due to the fact that there is not a single point in the game where she can outdamage Junpei and Akihiko at the same time, when the other two can outshine the rest of phys attackers at some point in the game.
But Aigis does have the third best AoE damage among party members, so it's not to shabby at all.
And just as a final thing, addresing God's Hand and Maximum Firepower, while I think Aigis' 2nd theurgy is a much better value than the one Aki brings to the table, her TP charge is sadly, one of the slowest in the game, while Aki has the third fastest and can rotate between spamming his strike skills and using his theurgy as a backup every other turn.
But when it comes to utility and flexibility, Aigis definitely has Akihiko beat, this is just my opinion after CTOBN brainwashed me into the church of Akihiko, cheers Shio ✌️
@@tuvieeclips I can see the argument, and there's also the fact that Aki and the others can get access to things like auto-rebellion much easier than she can. I think overall the debate between Aki vs Aigis is more subjective than I initially thought, even if to me its quite a no brainer to use Aigis over him.
I think even when Akihiko puts up good or even better results, there is also just the matter of versatility and synergy with the rest of the party. Akihiko finds himself in a very awkward spot where his best move for the majority of the game, Gigantic Fist, is also learned by another and much better physical character within Junpei. This poses a problem for him when wanting to build a team comp which covers more ground overall. Aigis' role with multi-target/high damage pierce skills, Matarukaja and strong defensive passives isn't filled by any other character within the party, which helps her have a more clearly defined purpose and cohesion within the group.
When I'm limited to a 4-man team comp, and I always want to have Junpei and Koromaru on the team no matter the situation, I only have one extra slot to fill. To me, Aigis serves that role much better than Akihiko because I'd argue she just has more practical application overall along with filling a wholly unique role for the team, meanwhile Akihiko quite literally is just a Great Value Junpei until he gets his God's Hand.
The Theurgia point is fair though honestly, Aki's is inherently more spammable than Aigis' is, but from my POV, Theurgia charges so fast no matter which character you're using, and you can always just charge it up before a boss fight anyways, so i don't think the mildly slower charge is that much of an issue. I'd much rather take the higher potential damage along with the rest of her kit in all honesty. Now if only Atlus didn't fuck up the tactics AI in this game so that Orgia Mode could *actually* shine in the way its supposed to...
Aigis's best body armor Soul of Athena blocks Ailments altogether so you can keep Dekunda and skip Insta-heal
@@ShioSatou If I may offer my input on a few of your arguments
Regarding "Akihiko Gigantic Fist is just discount Junpei Gigantic Fist", Junpei doesn't actually even get Gigantic Fist until level 47, 8 levels after Akihiko does. Additionally, assuming the absolute lowest level possible while matching the main character's level (for the sake of my sanity, as IDK how else to measure level/progress ratios objectively) at any given point in the game, only 6 levels after Junpei gets Gigantic Fist is when Akihiko can get Double Ziggurat, allowing him to stack Strike Boost and Strike Amp (note that the earliest you can get materials for Strike Amp accessories is 60, and Junpei doesn't have a weapon with either to stack them). This leaves a range of about 6 levels (47-52) where Akihiko is "Great Value Junpei" going solely by that metric. Even during that window, the math actually works out such that Akihiko actually hits slightly (and I do admittedly mean "slightly") harder than Junpei with Gigantic Fist.
Pretty much everything you said about Aigis I think is appropriate, with one (or two depending on perspective) exceptions. You mention her "high damage pierce skills" and "strong defensive passives" setting her apart. I think her "high damage pierce skills" find themselves in a similar position to what you argue Aki's Gigantic Fist does. The difference there is that Junpei outdoes Aigis in Pierce damage from Aigis's recruitment up until level 43 when Aigis gets Myriad Arrows (so level range of 27-43). As for her "strong defensive passives", while they are quite nice (I don't think any rational person would dissent to me stating that Enduring Soul, Resist Phys, and Insta-Heal are good), up until around level 60 (God's Hand on Aki is 72 btw) she really just gets Fast Heal. Fast Heal is certainly nice, being functionally indistinguishable from Insta-Heal for Freeze, Shock, or Dizzy, and limiting the number of turns lost to mind ailments to 1, I don't think Fast Heal alone is the level of good you were referring to. I won't dissent to any arguments about multi-target being valuable (it is), Aigis being more versatile (she is), Aigis being more immediately useful (Sonic Punch holds early game Aki back so much), or even the value of Matarukaja (in spite of Matarukaja potatoes, Autos, and the general length of fights).
With regard to what you say on theurgy charge I think there's a few things to note here.
To start, the difference between Akihiko and Aigis in terms of actual charge speed (for Tartarus), realistically is 1 turn, unless all of those turns don't begin with Charge/Concentrate and Aigis gets at least 1 crit (her crit rates are terrible, so this is far from a given). A bigger thing that sets apart their ability to charge theurgy is that Aigis can't charge it during Orgia Mode or Overheat (though she can charge Fuuka's still). This essentially means that Akihiko just loses his bar when he spends his theurgy, while Aigis both spends it and throws away her ability to charge it for the rest of the fight.
More significantly on theurgy charge, I would personally argue that filling theurgy in preparation for a boss is a form of grinding. Now whether "grinding" is a valid point to consider regarding character viability, or how much grinding is acceptable in that regard, isn't something I think we can find a universal consensus on. Personally though, I'd generally argue that "the best strategy" for a given fight would inherently be the best one that doesn't demand grinding (as said strategy would generally also work after grinding too). Additionally, before most actual bosses you can't do anything to fill the bar in advance. All you can do is setup party members with healing skills to be under half SP. As an example, during the Strength/Fortune fight there is no way (to my knowledge) to use Junpei's theurgy without either giving him 3 actions (which implies killing Strength before it gets to move) or giving Strength an action (so Fortune can hit Junpei's weakness).
To tell you the whole truth I don't know which of Akihiko or Aigis is preferable more often (as in for more notable fights). If your 4th slot just needs to be able to reliably Shift to Makoto or Junpei, then I will say Elec is the most common weakness among bosses or minibosses, but even for that about 40% of them have no weakness anyways. I am working on a project that will, I hope at least, give me a more clear and definitive answer for this. For the time being though I just thought I had something worth saying in regards to a few of your points and felt that it'd be worth stating outright.
So for some reason, I didn’t stick around to the video until Shinjiro’s part until today. Came back cuz a friend and I were shocked at Shinjiro having Debilitate and Firm Stance this whole time. Most players would have Shinji go away in level 30s, so sometimes I wonder why do they even bother putting skills till level 75 for a character up that will only be available for two blocks 😂
I think the Reaper video didn’t give Shinjiro the full picture at how good he is. You just modded him in to January while being in the exact same level you left it on, so it left me thinking if he could possibly out damage Junpei had he was level 99 like others?
Shinji comes at 39 so its more like low 40s he’ll leave.
The reason they gave him level up Skills like everyone else is so its not immediately obvious in gameplay that hes gonna go.
They show the Dps per level Chart at 42:29 with the Dashed Blue Being Shinji.
he can't when i modded him back in he was at 99 with 99st 99ma and strike boost + amp
@@tuvieeclips ahh makes sense. I just visited that video again and I’m guessing Shinji without Bloody Charge and Shift wouldn’t have enough damage to one shot the Reaper?
sorry for the wall of text. the video is very well made even though i disagree on a lot!
also all of this is going to be entirely in reference to the discussion, the tier last at the end is stated to be based on minmaxing so i'm not trying to argue with any placements there.
i think metric is incredibly important in any discussion. its pretty clear that late game is weighted more heavily here and that characters aren't really penalized for availability or really wanting craftable/contested accessories.
i'll start with the stuff i dont really disagree with
yukari stinks. items do her job better than she does. her early game is terrible, gets 1 shot by guardians w/o gear. protag and junpei reliably tank 1 hit w/o gear. her availability is fantastic and a good chunk of it is uncontested, so i don't think i'd put her bottom 1 for that reason alone but she is realistically never your best choice for any encounter once she can be swapped out
shinjiro is the best while hes around. his level and raw stats eclipse everyone else. even protag is kind of struggling to get charge. endure at this point in the game is nuts and lets him be super risky with being under 50% for his gauge. his abysmal availability would probably make me call him bottom 1 but hes great while hes around, given the context of what you have available at that point in the game.
akihiko. the only thing i'd add is the more you limit resources (no random encounters, less craftable equipment, etc) the better tarunda gets and hes a huge bulk booster for the entire party in the early to midgame fights which is huge. this lets a level 14 yukari reliably survive during hierophant. the sonic punch thing is definitely a weakness but its actually not that bad. you only really notice the damage drop off in first half of yabbashah and chariot and justice, but after that he learns elec boost. zionga + elec boost even tho it cant crit is pretty good damage output for that point in the game assuming he has his characteristic, and it also gives him an elec boosted AOE theurgy for guardian fights. basically hes suffering for a couple guardian fights and chariot + justice and thats it. i think i'd pretty easily put him as top 1
ken. divine intervention is a literal win button in every fight after you get it. i think its safe to say w/ divine intervention ken is top 1 BUT he joins sort of late and divine intervention comes even later. the fact you can only use it for a limited amount of time would make me put ken somewhere in the middle of the pack
now the stuff i sort of disagree with
junpei i've come around to a good deal but i also think he has very major flaws and is currently pretty overrated. his early game while a lot better than yukaris is still pretty wack. his base stats are solid but it takes him a while to learn a good offensive skill and a lot of early game enemies use wind. he also competes with akihiko for rushing his trait, and generally i think akihikos is both better and much more useful to get before hierophant. also he really does need both equipment AND frequent use in the party to reach his maximum potential which i would argue are both huge downsides. junpei makes use of contested resources very well but they are still contested resources.
aigis. i think this one is purely metric. the less resources you have the better aigis gets. taru/rakukaja become way more useful when you are a lower level and have less access to craftable items. also on the extreme end of things on minimum encounters (not including glitching past gatekeepers) her bulk is actually really important in a few places and other party members struggle to match it. i think shes overall better than junpei but not as good as someone like akihiko or mitsuru
lastly the stuff i HARD disagree with
mitsuru is the most underrated character in the game. i think people don't understand how good "just being a rakunda bot" is once you eliminate grinding. if you cant outfit your entire party to maximize damage then someone who just casts rakunda suddenly shoots up in usefulness. her damage output when she joins is actually decent. the damage chart that gets referenced throughout makes a couple assumptions that hurt her. those being that level is equal to enemies, party members have the same level as the protagonist and equipment is obtained at the earliest possible level. eliminating grinding as a factor mitsuru will join overleveled and you will consistently be a lower level than the enemy even with reloads obscene exp gain on guardians/bosses. her damage is fine for a little bit after she joins, but it will start to fall off like a rock since she doesnt get ice boost til well after magic has fallen off. but she still joins with rakunda. you start taking in the fact you might only be able to outfit one or two characters with their ideal gear and suddenly filling your third slot with someone who just casts rakunda doesnt seem all that bad.
also her not learning an amp doesn't matter. no one learns an amp until basically the end of the game anyway. if she is getting penalized for wanting an amp accessory then 1. everyone should be penalized for wanting an amp accessory and 2. junpei should be penalized for wanting apt pupil.
koromaru. if mitsuru is the most underrated koro is the most overrated. i think a lot of his strengths here are heavily upplayed so i wanna try and put some things into perspective.
he has sketchy availability, missing out on the first 40% of the game is definitely something to be penalized for (same w/ ken)
debilitate is a literal non factor. he is not guaranteed to learn it by the end of the game without pretty liberal usage and if he does its gonna be on the final day after jin or takaya. its not a great skill vs nyx because she cleanses debuffs between phases. can be good vs the physical phases or the final phase if you aren't prepped since they hit pretty hard but divine intervention does a better job at it.
getsu-ei on paper hits hard yeah, but lets look at the full moon fights koro is around for
hermit: he won't have it w/o excessive grinding
strength+fortune: hes actually not guaranteed to have it here unless hes used a lot. on top of this strength resits phys
that leaves takaya+jin, hanged man, chidori, jin, takaya, and nyx. chidori is scripted and jin is a joke fight so thats a whopping four bosses fought on a full moon.
revolution and power howling are definitely his best aspects. his gauge is real bad though. if you arent taking random encounters that means you have to map out charging his theurgy which will give him like 1 maybe 2 uses per block of tartarus. you can bring him to fights hes not great for to try and charge an extra use but now you are basically making one encounter harder/less reliable to make another encounter easier/more reliable. vs bosses its pretty long between charges like is stated in the video. i do think koro is good. theres some guardians that having power howling prepped for is really good and revolution is always great. but i think how good he is here is vastly over exaggerated and kind of ignores the context of the game.
To be honest, I feel that Atlus should've just brought back High Energy as a skill Yukari learns when Io becomes Isis and Fighting Spirit for Junpei as Hermes becomes Trismegistus which given when that happens would best fit Junpei's Character development.
I also don't understand why they gave Koromaru Revolution and Junpei Fire Break as Koro is the team's Fire Magician (pun intended) and Junpei is about landing homeruns on enemies (pun intended)
Yes I was expecting obviously different opinions so no worries, while I there are some points that i can definitely see
Junpei is undeniably the best DPS for the entirety of the game, trait or no, and due to the nature of killing everything fast weaknesses can even be beneficial due to TP charge
Koromaru provides an all rounder kit with getsu, revolution and power howling which all are super low level and still provide insane value to any phys comp
but mitsuru idk man, even if you can commit to using ice amp accesory doesn't take from the fact that magic is subpar and will be outdamaged by any phys user for the entirety of the game, maybe if she had a trait like auto marakunda or smth i would see her in a better light, however as it stands from my perspective there is 0 reason to run her when she's outshined in damage and utility
OK there's a couple things here I think are worth weighing in on
Getsu-ei isn't much weaker 1 day before or after a full moon than it is on a full moon (1 day before/after is something like 97.14% of full power), that expands the range of "early Getsu-ei is huge" to potentially everything in Tartarus, and at that point its availability is essentially just "everything once he reaches level 39."
The only possible way you wouldn't have Debilitate on Koromaru "by the end" is if you haven't been keeping Koro up to MC's level. It's impossible glitchless to reach the final boss under level 78, and Koromaru learns Debilitate at level 77. Additionally, I'd personally argue that fights are so fast in reload that (provided you keep Koro as a permanent fixture of the party) you literally do not need Debilitate for anything until after he would be assured to get it anyways.
My perspective on Koromaru's gauge is that yeah, it is bad (sadly), but the payoff for having it is so immensely powerful that it becomes the single most valuable resource in the game. You also have to use Koro to charge it past the 50% you can get for free by starting tartarus runs on Sundays so. It's also only slow to charge for tartarus it's genuinely just average charge speed for actual bosses.
I made the damage chart, and the parameters all work in Mitsuru's favor (to some extent by design). It gives her Ice Amp at level 43 (since getting it earlier is just impossible unless Mitsuru's level is lower than Makoto's level), results in (to a slight degree) relatively low crit rates for phys party members (favoring the magic ones), and even gives her the full 1.15x from Concentrate (which intrinsically assumes fights go to turn 2, that she gets an even number of chances to deal damage, and that she lacks Tranquility Support). She does join overleveled (by up to 6 levels), but that doesn't take too long to level out.
@@cantthinkofbettername5065 thanks for both the reply and chart, appreciate the work!
yes 78 is the lowest the protagonist can be but that does not mean party members will keep up in level. it literally just depends who gets used for what fight. my point is mostly just any skills that are lv 75+ are being obtained on the last day, or potentially not obtained at all so i don't really care about them.
an extra 50% to his gauge on sundays would help sure, thats something i wasnt considering but my point still stands, you have to plan around it and it isn't a resource you will have constantly.
all of this also including he misses out on a large chunk of the game. again i'm not saying power howling isn't good i'm saying koromaru has a lot of flaws that i would argue make him not as good as people say.
the mitsuru comment i think i didn't make myself very clear, so sorry if that was the case. i was referring exclusively to when she first joins and has a noticeable difference in level. i agree that once ice amp is a consideration your chart is lenient with her. there are quite a few stipulations i don't agree with but its a useful resource nonetheless!
@@tuvieeclips junpei is not undeniably the best damage dealer in all scenarios that is just factually incorrect. i spent a lot of time doing testing just to make sure im not talking out of my ass and he really does need resources to keep up. i can compile the footage and post it if you like but the gist of it is if you do not take into account craftable gear, and don't use accessories junpei is wayyyy less impressive. a party of aigis/koromaru/junpei at lv 75 w/ the stipulations i just mentioned is outputting roughly the same damage as mitsuru/akihiko/aigis. this is the point of the game where koromaru/junpei should be at their best, mind you. also in these tests mitsuru literally did not attack she just cast rakunda.
koromaru provides a lot good but the point i was making is his availability is lackluster and he has some notable flaws.
the mitsuru comment really makes me feel the need to emphasize that anything i talk about in regards to strength is in the context of having limited resources. grinding is a complete non factor for me since a character that performs well without additional resources will always perform well but a character that needs to rely on contested or variable resources to be better is always going to be weaker regardless of how high the ceiling is.
I feel like Mitsuru overall is quite an improvement, my only problem is that Reload is such a phys dominant game there’s almost no reason to not use the phys dominant party members instead. Yukari and Mitsuru’s build in Reload would go nuts in the original game, especially Rakunda + Tranquillity/Concentrate + Diamond Dust which is the equivalent of Niflheim in the OG
Tbh I feel like all party members have been buffed in some way or another, prob the only exceptions would be Akihiko and Aigis to some extend due to them losing their buffs/debuffs a little? Even then, they’re great for what they are and eventually you can just use Debilitate late game. I remember getting so stupidly excited when Yukari gets Amrita Drop/Shower, I had to grind for Salvation to get a party-wide ailment cure in the OG lol
lmaooo yea, the reload girls would be broken in OG
but sadly it's always "when" and "if" but never "is" 😔
Swap Ken and Junpei, Aigis and Akihiko, and move Yukari up a tier and it’s my list. I use Yukari over Ken, but that’s only because I don’t like the new Ken voice lol. Again, I’ve mentioned, vast majority of SMT games are hardest at the start, this is no exception, and Junpei and Akihiko are definitely the worst early on, Mitsuru being the exception. I’m sure people who played The Answer remember how Ken didn’t learn a healing move until Mediarama, which wasn’t innate, so he sucked in the answer. Glad he’s better now. Koromaru just doesn’t lose usability, and Heat Riser is obviously really good because if Makoto was in this list he would be probably a solid 9 tiers above Koromaru, so buffing and debuffing is essential. So some of my favourite compositions are:
Early Game:
Yukari
Akihiko
Aigis
Mid Game:
Ken
Aigis
Koromaru
End Game
Koromaru
Ken
Junpei
End game Junpei / Aigis is honestly debatable for me, because IMO it’s just not worth investing ANYBODYS turn economy into buffing Junpei, and while Aigis’s Ma skills help, Ken and Koro are obvious main stays, so Aigis can’t buff Junpei, and Ken should obviously NEVER use heat riser on anyone but Makoto, and Koromaru is obviously a Debilitate Revolution machine. So yeah, Aigis / Junpei is debatable, but I know how much you love showing of Junpei’s damage lol so I won’t argue with him being useful end game.
I won’t rank Shinjiro, because you know.
I’d like to here what you think are optimal due to your list at different parts of the game. I considered Early Game up until Shinjiro join, Mid Game up until Adamah is unlocked in January and End Game everything post Adamah’s unlock, though an argument could be made for a Post Game category, I think most people, immediately kill the reaper upon reaching Adamah and therefore reaching level 99 basically straight away.
Anyway, great video Tuviee! Definitely worth the wait, good to see Bainz here as well!
thank you! i can definitely see the reasoning behind this list too Ken is goated :))
Junpei is actually not weak early game. He has a lot going for him such as his base Theurgy being really strong, he can get access to Crit Amp before Shinjiro even joins, and you also get access to Rebellion early on which is worth slapping on him. Unless you're using DLC or going out of your way to dump money on the Velvet Room which is rough early game because you need social stats, MC is not going to do high damage early on.
Vacuum Slash does a lot of damage and then from there he goes to Assault Dive and Torrent Shot. He even does more damage than Yukari during the first full moon boss because it has a hidden "weakness" to fire. After Shinjiro joins he'll get Blade of Fury and by the time Shinjiro leaves he'll have Deathbound or be really close to getting Deathbound. He also gets Juzumaru very early, though he is stuck with it all the way until November when he can get the Qingdi Blade. Plus he doesn't have a big weakness to any of the early full moon bosses.
@@24hr-Gaming Mc is always going to do the most damage if your fusing correctly, money or not.
I like P4 and P5 more than 3 but Koro is the greatest party member in the entire modern trilogy. Such a cool kit & every moment he’s onscreen is so fun, I couldn’t stop smiling
Indeed he is. Even if Akechi is also widely loved, he’s not as good as Koro in gameplay despite getting Debilitate.
@@catalyst539 akechi is the worse party member in p5R by a mile
For max damage like reaper etc you should use junpei, akihiko and aigis
Boss fights should use yukari, aigis koro
My list:
1. Yukari Best Girl 💖👑: Healing Apex is the best characteristic in the game reducing in 75% the SP cost of healing skills, she has the fastest way to charge her Theurgy by healing someone every time, if you want to survive and don't buy healing items, she's essential as well.
2. Koromaru Best dog: Powerful dark and fire skills, his high agility makes him untouchable, Power Howling to give Charge to all the party is really good, Revolution to increase the critical rate and Debilitate to reduce all the enemy stats.
3. Aigis: Really strong physical and some useful support skills, her Theurgy charges faster every time she uses a physical attack combined with her characteristic of increasing the damage of all physical attacks and she's the most resistant party member.
4. Ken: A really good versatile character, good electric and light skills, heal and revive allies, Tetrakarn and Makarakarn to reflect attacks and Divine Intervention is the best Theurgy in the game without counting the Armageddon.
5. Akihiko: Still a good party member, strong physical and electric skills, his characteristic of increasing the buff effects on himself can be useful and him and Aigis are the only ones with an AOE Theurgy.
6. Junpei: His physical skills are really good and his characteristic of increasing the critical rate and the critical damage is really good, this combined with Revolution or Bloody Charge you can destroy the enemies, but his magic stat is really low.
7. Mitsuru: She's the strongest magic attacker in the game but that's all, mental ailments against over leveled enemies or bosses are completely useless and there are some ailments that are not very useful, she has Concentrate but we can use Yukari to give Concentrate to all the party and her second Theurgy makes Almighty damage ignoring resistances and reduce all the enemy stats, but Almighty attacks already ignores resistances, so this doesn't make sense and Koromaru can use Debilitate to reduce all the enemy stats more frequently, all she can do, anyone else can do it better than her.
8. Shinjiro: He's completely broken, I don't deny that, but he's at the bottom just because you can only use him for a month and one full moon mission.
Interesting list. Lategame my main team was Yukari/Akihiko/Aigis with Koromaru being switched in for Yukari once I could great clock get him debilitate. Never used Junpei or Ken even though I know they're good if you can get them to work. I'd love to see a tier list of like midgame party compositions and things like that. Great video!
the best party for the majority of the game is just Koro + Junpei + Akihiko, Shinjiro or Aigis
Best p3 ytber, could you maybe do a maskado build? I love his design and when he does vorpal blade it’s like he’s using his katana for that. Or if you could share some tips to build him as op as possible. Thank you
Masakado is so weird to me because he's cleanly meant to be a slash user but he uses pierce
i would suggest something like
Brave Blade/Heaven's Blade
Slash Amp
Slash Boost
Single-target boost
Apt Pupil
Arms Master
Crit rate amp
Multi-Target Boost
you can even replace Brave Blade and Single Target and get Vorpal Blade and Resist/Null/Repel/Drain Elec
i will forgive you for putting Mitsuru last since the video is peak Ivan. but seriously very good stuff! ❤
tysm noireee, i like mitsuru no matter how much of a rakunda bot she is
I only carry one attack of each type (Myriad Arrows and Akasha). I went with Dekunda as none of Aigis's other options appealed to me, and from my experience, I get hit with debuffs a lot...
debuffs are realistically not that common but aigis is goated
If anyone else in the comments here has any technical questions about the game, feel free to ask me btw.
Also I'm impressed by the amount of effort that clearly went into the editing for this.
This isn’t really a technical question but why that on the damage chart does it show that characters dipping In damage as they level?
the goat himself
@@helpihavebats6392 Enemy En and Lu scales to match the average among bosses/minibosses (0.727 En/0.654 Lu per level)
@@cantthinkofbettername5065 ahh thank you
Does the crit up from Juzumaru/Qingdi Blade/Grenade Launcher only apply to normal attacks or does it also apply to physical skills?
CTOBN is godlike
the walking P3 database
Your ranking is great if you are only taking raw amount of damage, but if you take all the tools that a character has there is a lot of biased opinion here.
I'm a pro persona player I've played FES and all the "hardest vanilla games", so what I will say is more about the experience in the franchise.
Koromaru is the best character in the game outside of Fuuka and MC and I completely support that. It is the only that has access to 4 elements, its best armor null light and has the most amount of tools.
Yukari is terrible in damage, and is true that you get a lot of hp items in the game, but in reload money is extremely scarce, in FES around you get Shinjiro you can have easily around a million of yen in reload if you are lucky you have two hundred thousand, even using the fortune teller, and all the healing items are extremely expensive, so having a character that can do that helps a lot. For me just for that reason Yukari is the second best character in the game, and mitsuru, her and Akihiko are needed for boss fights as early junpei is terrible and they are the only source of having a debilitate for boss fights. Magic is awful in reload, but is still a tool that you can use to get AOA. So tranquility is a win, also you can use Yukari healing even if you don't need heal and still charges her theurgy.
Ken theurgy charging speed is not fixed, when he is close to none sp he charge each turn his theurgy when you get the fortune. Ken has so many tools 3 elements, healing, fast theurgy, his damage is terrible, but he is an extremely good support and dekaja is needed as more enemies use heat riser as the game advance, ken can't cure ailments and was nerfed as in FES he was the second wind user. Divine intervention is the most broken attack, also he gets heat riser. Ken gameplay is about burning his sp pool with highly cost SP sttacks.
Koromaru, Yukari and Ken are the only characters outside of fuuka that have a theurgy that can help the whole party. The rest of the characters have only damage oriented theurgy outside of the MC.
Junpei is here, you only forgot to say that he can cover 4 elements, all physical and fire and that he has a weapon that bypass any weakness.
Akihiko is here and you say it all, only you forgot that he can use also ice attacks.
Mitsuru is here and you forgot that she can use dark attacks having 3 elements. Mitsuru gameplay is about powering freeze ailment as freeze is the best ailment in the game.
Aigis is the great in damage, but she can only use buff if the enemy nulls of repel physical. Fortunately she has a weapon that bypass all the weaknesses. Also she resist ailments and can revive. She always will cover 2 elements.
Shinjiro is a much worst Akihiko with his thor weapon, only one theurgy his theurgy works the opposite of Ken's theurgy and both have the same speed. The biggest problem of Shinjiro is that his characteristic is useless, the second problem with Shinjiro is how limited is his gameplay. Bloody charge+ physical. Bloody charge +theurgy. If he survived October 4th, he will be the tankiest character next to Aigis, other problem with Shinjiro is that he has less weapons that any character and you have to choose between his ultimate or his thor weapon, the first one to be faster and start with a heavy hitting attack or the thor one if you have an opponent that nulls of repel physical. Nonetheless a worst Aigis, a worst junpei, a worst Akihiko.
Nah
@@ShadowOfMassDestruction it is ok if you support his opinion, but playing persona is not about doing the most amount of damage, but knowing all the tools that each party member has.
@@narasnek Calls himself a pro persona player then proceeds to call Ken a second wind user in FES.
@@DoesntMattertbhdudes probably referring to the weapon Ken gets that makes his Basic Attacks Wind elemental.
@@helpihavebats6392 I don't think a weapon exactly makes someone a "user". Would you call Akihiko an Ice user?
When are you making the second part for episode Aigis?
Hooo boy, I don't know if I'm making an hour long sequel but i can see myself doing a short vid
good news ez claps for the 1 hundred
cujalquiera kjfdsjkasd
U didn't ranked fuuka
she top 0
Thanks for the late bday present lol (birthday was yesterday.)
happy birthday (yesterday!)
6:25 why is akasha arts optimal for MC god's hand deals more damage is there something in the damage calculations that I don't understand?
Apparently its been discovered that Sukukaja effects how many hits in multihits land. So thats neat.
Sukukaja makes it MC's strongest attack
~70% x 2 x sqrt(300) + ~30% x 1 x sqrt(300) gives you an average power of sqrt(867), which is higher than God's Hand sqrt(800). The rate of the number of hits here assumes that sukukaja is in effect. If it isn't, God's Hand deals more damage on average.
Thanks for explaining
Ken's Makarakarn and Tetrakarn could be counted towards his damage output right
i mean, technically yeah and that can be his highest damage output, it just would be impossible to measure lol
Since Theurgy stacks with strength and magic, wouldn’t Concentrate(Tranquility) work with physical skills?
Nope
no, for whatever reason
@@tuvieeclips Ah well. At least you can build any type of party since there’s no objectively bad characters. So her theurgy could be useful. There’s also King and I.
To give you a more technical explanation why it doesn't. Each skill is "assigned" a damage type (between physical and magic, they're also assigned an element too, but that's besides the point). As you can probably guess, the Slash, Strike, and Pierce theurgies are "assigned" to be physical type, while the others are "assigned" to be magic type. However, due to the unique damage formula used by theurgies, this doesn't affect the offensive stat used for calculations.
A similar phenomenon occurs for All-Out Attacks, where they're "assigned" to be magic type, but the lone "All-Out Attack" damage formula uses Strength. Normally this would mean that All-Out Attack would consume Makoto's Concentrate, but there's an explicit check in place that prevents it from using either for All-Out Attacks in particular.
@@cantthinkofbettername5065 That makes sense.
Un saludo a personaposting
ola velvet room fusion posting
Koromaru > Yukari > Ken > Junpei > Akihiko > Mitsuru > Aigis > Shinjiro.