I'm sorry, but i just had to laugh at the people thinking Aigis and Akihiko were training when, in reality, they were trying to beat the life out of each other.
ngl im not sure why that cutscene is in the game in the first place, like genuinely im not saying it is bad or anything i just have no clue why they would include that moment there, so honestly i feel like most people who thought they were training were just really confused, when i watched the cutscene i was like, "wait are they fighting each other? that doesnt make any sense so surely its sparring? but that also doesnt make any sense bc they clearly dont fight as if sparring and that would be a pointless cutscene"
@@Iamverykarpy It's there for foreshadowing. The original cutscene was directed incredibly well with Akihiko dodging bullets and Aigis showing emotionless malice as she spins around with really cool camera movement to point her finger guns. In Reload she throws a kick...he blocks...Metis does a thing like the animation is P4GA level. There's no fluidity in the movement, and you can't even feel the impact of anything they are doing.
@@ShadowOfMassDestruction idk i feel like foreshadowing shouldnt be so, direct, if that makes any sense. Also the fact that it looks like the sees members genuinely wanted to fucking kill each other in og just seems wrong,
@@Iamverykarpy It's more like hollywood movie/Anime type foreshadowing like how they kinda did in Persona 5's intro. As for the fighting in the context of P3/FES they had a much stronger conviction in their beliefs than what Reload showed so they are friends before and after the battle but it's no holds barred until then, you can't really look all nice and sympathetic in a fight.
Honestly, the Answer has always made a bit of sense to me despite how controversial it is. Death is hard for everyone and extremely difficult to accept. It's not uncommon for people to regress when a loved one dies. The MC in this game was canonically their courageous leader and friend who helped them brave life and death. Maintaining hope through the worst of it and sacrificing himself to save them and everyone they loved. From the perspective of a reader and player, it hurts to see characters regress to a point before such meaningful growth. I understand the frustration and anger one would feel from the sight. But it also shows just how much impact the player had on these characters if this is the result of such a loss. Everyone deals with grief differently, and the Answer isn't afraid to show the ugly side we'd all rather pretend doesn't exist and forget.
The Answer, for me, was always a story about pain. About the visceral part of losing somebody. Because, even though most characters have faced death, now they have no purpose. They don't have a big enemy to defeat or a big vengeance to have. They just have to keep living and that is really hard after something like the story of P3. Somebody they loved and that they depended on... is gone. And he is gone forever. And many of them don't know what to do with those feelings. The Answer is a story I love, because I don't only remember what the characters say in the PS2 version. I remember how they said it. I remember how Ken asked about why the protagonist died, since the hospital never gave any explanation. I love how Yukari is taking it horribly. That is actually powerful and memorable. The Answer was short and hard, gameplaywise and storywise. That was the point for me. Everything is painful and impactful. In the original, the shadow of their regrets died in a very inhuman yet beautiful way. It is uncomfortable. But that is the point. This whole damn chapter is supposed to be uncomfortable. It is like a long elevator ride after a fricking tragedy. I just ended Reload and I actually enjoyed it. It is different than FES, but it was good for me. Yet, if The Answer is like this, maybe I can wait and just buy Refantazio with the half I would be saving O.O
@@FlamasNegras You said it. It's so weird that people can't even sympathize with basic human emotions that they would otherwise find no issue understanding in a real life scenario. Like imagine hating your Mom because she was just a little bit mean after losing the love of her life, like c'mon who let these middle schooler kids cook with this criticism? I'm don't think Hashino himself would tone this element of raw human emotion down like this but the Atlus devs missed the entire point too. That aside the Metaphor demo is HYPE and I am most definitely looking forward to the full game release.
trust me. Episode Aigis is, while not perfect, is still worth it and this video WAY overselling the issues. Definitely wait for a price drop though or if you can, play it on Gamepass
@@ShadowOfMassDestruction That's because its not real life and sometimes video games stories don't translate the same emotions the same exact way. While the orignal anwser was okay ish it wasn't good either. We didn't need a scenario where the party went through hurt or loss, it should've just ended where the original ending was. Like we get its about pain, but just cause something is about that doesn't mean the execution was good. It wasn't good in the original and its ever worse now.
The day this fandom stops overselling Yukari's jealousy towards Aigis and actually talks about her grief and how her actions in The Answer tie themselves to her past and the previous coping strategies she did in regard to dealing with the 10 years worth of trauma and isolation she endured before the beginning of Persona 3 (putting all of that pain into a goal) is the day I know peace. She lost someone she LOVED, period. It deeply affected her in comparison to the rest of SEES, because she suddenly and with no clear answer as to why (just like with her dad), lost the person who helped her start truly healing from the loss of her dad and family and the 10 years worth of trauma that came with that (ironic); helped her stop consciously putting people at arms length because she was terrified of being so close to someone then losing them, which is exactly what happened. Platonic or romantic, it does not matter (though it's totally canon like c'mon); her stance in The Answer will always make sense.
You would think her right out telling Aigis that she had a "petty jealousy, plain and simple" would make people understand. Same jealousy that Yukari had for Mitsuru and Junpei had for the Protagonist when he was the Leader and not Junpei.
@@MariusBoss11458 Fans love to play favorites with characters and will dileberately label characters for the simplest of things they say and do. Like when Yukari teased Junpei about being scared, instead of understanding that she was scared too and was hoping Junpei would alleviate her fears, people are acting like she's Hitler for simply teasing him like that. No really, I met someone who said that she was a narcissistic person who uses others for her own ends...that's how crazy people in this fandom can be if they decide to dislike a character.
you're expecting a lot here. Fandoms are very stupid and cancerous pretty much every time. They get things so far off the mark that engaging with them can end up killing your enjoyment of a series.
@@Danielss250 I think it's worse that ever now because nowadays there is this portion of "fans" that don't actually play/watch the product themselves, but they just follow whatever hottake that is trending and adapt it as their own opinion if they believe it to tbe the "consensus".
I think the directors for this game still hold most of the responsibility for the decision they make before publishing the game, I'm not expecting gamers to do the heavy lifting in identifying what makes a story/product good
If the fanbase didn't have such bad media literacy, The Answer wouldn't have been neccessary at all. The only reason it exists to begin with is to answer if Makoto died at the end of the game and why, things that have answers in the base game for those who paid attention.
First Yukari, then Akechi, understanding nuance is one hell of a lost art in this fanbase. Definitely not looking forward to when P1, P2IS, or P2EP ever get remade cause hoo boy.
I still remember reading some Steam forum post or review like a day after the DLC dropped saying "This will be the biggest test of media literacy in history" or something among those lines. Boy how funny that comment was in retrospect
the E shadow scene is a lot worse in reload ngl, ik its more like emotionally significant but there was smth about the og having him literally being skinned to bones hitting at the reality of death just as much, if not harder than the reload scene
I know that there are laws to this that held them back from doing the cutscene like this again. A lot of things in Episode Aigis though I feel like they fail to find a middleground to certain things like Yukari for example. Instead of tweak the dialogue they just outright remove a small but significant detail to a scene and for this they coulda kept this but also added the characters expressions amd inputs. Iunno man, it's not bad but like... it could be better.
I mean yeah but in the og that cutscenes is also heavily inconsistent with p3's style and also it's a bit too gory for my tastes at least, I definitely welcome this more emotional approach
@@ShadowOfMassDestructionyou went back to the classic pfp lol but yeah I agree I do like the og fes shadow Makoto thing more it’s just so mysterious creepy and fascinating to me
My assumption is that due to Atlus now belonging to Sega they were not allowed to remake it in such a way, due to sega being a "kids company" and all. They did something like that in like a dragon infinite wealth where a character was gutted but you only see the non mutilated parts of the corpse and the rest is out of frame. Since you here cannot put makoto out of frame they did the SMT V death thing i guess.
I laughed my ass off when I heard Marsh's voice. Dude's the most estranged and isolated megaten youtuber to the community so hearing him over here caught me by surprise
Speaking as a Reload fan who enjoyed the DLC, I think your criticisms are totally fair. While I had watched the PS2 version of the Answer in video form before, I never played FES and thus didn't have the same nostalgic attachment that a lot of other people had. It'd also been long enough that I didn't remember the exact dialogue in the original vs Reload's iteration. I think that made it easier for me to just roll with it and enjoy the experience, but I'm not gonna act like Reload is inherently superior. I think it's really gonna depend on what people want out of the experience. For me, Reload's version was just more approachable. All the quality of life changes made it more manageable for me personally, and I don't think I would have had as fun playing the PS2 version just based on personal preferences, but I can respect the original, and I do think preservation is important, especially since the last rerelease of FES is on the PS3's PSN, if I recall correctly.
As someone that has only played the remake version of episode Aigis, the conflict between the members of SEES being much stronger in the original makes a lot of sense. I was really confused with the whole "fighting in unevitable" shit each character was yapping about because of how mild the disagreement between each of em feels in the remake. Like, Is like the game wants to tell you that each member of SEES Is so convinced of what they want that they aren't open for a normal debate, and therefore they need to fight, but then what It shows Is just a bunch of teenagers having different opinions and that's It. So being so seeing then all being so stubborn about waiting to fight was kinda jarring ngl
The original answer wasn’t really good in the scene either where it came across as though it was just yukari causing the conflict and the others were somewhat unified despite everyone else seperated
I swear people are gonna b!tch if they tone down Marie's brattiness which is what the grand majority of people disliked about her (assuming she will come back)
I’ve never played FES and first experienced The Answer through Reloads version, so I obviously was not aware of the differences and changes made. That being said, after being made aware of what was changed and toned down, I wish I was able to experience the OG version first, at least in terms of story and cutscenes. Just the OG Shadow Makoto scene alone is something I wish I could’ve seen while playing the game, shit looks metal as fuck So while I don’t dislike the remake of The Answer (mainly because it’s the only version I’ve played and I can’t compare it to FES since I’ve never played that version), I think it’s incredibly valid that people find it to be a watered down version of sorts. I’ll probably play the FES version sometime in the future to get the full experience
Reload is the full experience. The bitches like this youtuber just want Persona to be exactly like SMT even though that would make Persona sell like shit since SMT sells horribly in comparison to the Persona franchise.
@@joshstephens413 how ? he only metions about smt VV ONCE for example about difficulty and that all to it where the part he want persona to be smt ? are you even watch the entire vids or something ? also like judging the quality of persona and smt games through sales is weird points how can you even judging a video games just by sales without ever playing it to know if its good or not its make no sense
You make a lot of good points, and I especially agree with the dev overcorrection for The Answer's controversy right when people finally realized its story was actually good. My one point of disagreement is your difficulty comparison. I don't think mainline SMT and Persona are meant to be comparable in difficulty. Persona is meant for more broad appeal, and I know that's no excuse for dumbed-down gameplay but I kinda feel Reload's gameplay only feels dumbed down to an ultra-experienced MegaTen veteran, and I think those kinds of people are meant to get their difficulty fix from mainline. 21:10 Man, can you imagine if they remade Fire Emblem Three Houses and had Edelgard talk like this??
idk man. if you have a difficulty called "heartless" that's a step above the game's "hard" mode, then i don't think it's unfair for people to have the expectation that this difficulty IS for the veteran persona players to get their thrills. plus p-studio made it very clear in their interviews that they wanted to remain cognizant of the older fanbase and appeal to them too.
It's a pattern across various game genres that games are lowering their difficulty and dumbing things because of attention spans being low with newer gamers. Fighting games have controls that let you do moves with one button, not input them, handholding and yellow paint markers. There was a thing from Reddit where a young gamer couldn't figure out how to find the cave in FFVIII and was lost at the port. They didn't read dialogue and needed a map marker/objective marker to tell them where to go. That defeats the purpose of big aspects of game design. It's also been a common critique even when not being critical that games are easier and remasters, remakes are easier than originals.
@@MrFreakHeavypersona was considered a harder series until p4g/p5 came out because they made mechanics that made the games mind numbingly easy. people say that “persona has always been an easy franchise” when that just isn’t true. It’s that the only games available on current gen platforms are the games that have streamlined mechanics that make the games easy in comparison to vanilla p4, and P3 FES.
Yukari adding caveats to her position like "this isn't objectively right" is absolutely tone deaf. The writers either did not know these characters or were being commandeered by higher-ups who were too afraid to get the same backlash as before. Well, guess what, now they can get new backlash for the "not objectively" worse dialogue. Yukari being snappy and illogical is part of the intended writing. She's just lost the most important person in her life-regardless if you read it as romantic, she loved Makoto. It's almost as if the original story was trying to commentate on that experience and give people a character to relate to. Reload's dialogue overall is just less impactful and feels like it's overexplaning everything for no reason instead of focusing on prose and tone. ESPECIALLY personal tone, it's completely ripped out of the characters and they all talk the same way in certain redone scenes.
You are right about Yukari but people complained about how she was in the answer and that I think is the main reason they changed her. Now people are complaining when Atlus looked at the criticism and changed her character to what they wanted. You really can't win in this world.
It really isn't that bad or tone deaf and hate is honestly overblown. They knew the characters and they still acted in character. It honestly isn't worse dialogue just different. It still is impactful and her not being as snappy doesn't take away what she really lost, and well..with the added social link like stuff I disagree the focus on and prose is there with some adding breathing room. I don't see how any personal tone was ripped out of the characters or how they all talk the same way at all in any scenes.
Having never played the original episode aigis I didn’t notice a character shift for anyone except Akihiko, everyone felt like themselves, maybe I would like the original dialogue better tho
It's not the first game to do it, a lot of entertainment is becoming this way. They don't trust people to understand things on their own, so things are told to outright or explained, guiding players through a game various ways. I think the fact many don't read much either, that reflects on writing, so it will decline as well.
You gotta love how the guy makes a point of how the fanbase is so easily offended by differing opinions and then one look at the comment section shows the same behaviour. Overall i dont agree Episode Aigis's changes were bad. I do agree that one cutscene was better before. But everything else was very much in line with how these characters were in the game. Yes their running off emotions and grief but they still care about each other is how i interpret it. Yes interpret because there are no absolutes in discussing fiction well not always anyway. People are gonna bitch and moan about which is better, instead of acting like adults and having an opinion and respecting each other and the developers. You can't say they dont understand these characters after the lengths they went through with Reload in the first place. You can however disagree with their interpretation.
imo the reason why some of the fighting scenes look goofy is cuz of the camera angle and cuts. like in fes, it's also pretty slow, but the cuts and camera angle made it feel tense.
Episode Aigis felt like they wanted to create conflict without being too conflictive. FES had this air of conflict brewing and reaching its boiling point, finally getting to the point where it felt obvious that the party was going to fight over this, no one was giving an inch, it was a clear "you are wrong, I am right" which concluded with fights thag were both physical struggles and a battle of wills. Who had more conviction of their feelings than the other... I always disliked that we fought Akihiko and Ken first, since were very solid in their decision. It aas very clear when Aigis was told "we can't let you fight Yukari with so much indecision, she will wipe the floor with you." The raw emotional energy and the very direct statements of the characters were so good. "If I could rewrite the past to save Shinji and Miki, I'd flat out refuse," is such a powerful statement from Akihiko, which gets destroyed in Reload, they also add extra explanation to his position that is unwarranted... why does he have to explain himself when to him the question he proposed to Yukari is explanation enough... and the answer is "flat-out refuse." FES, despite its shortcomings in gameplay, wasa short and powerful piece of media that struck square at the human psyche (shoutouts to Metis's persona). I think we have become too soft to see such conflict in these times.
I really resonated with that ending. The discussion around this game and the original, and all versions is filled with controversy. I also feel that people put labels out to try to devalue others. I have a very high opinion of Reload, it just sucks that the community can't act like all versions are valid ways to play, even with whichever you prefer.
@@ConCadd I never said BubbleTea was at fault. I also don’t think this is the fault of many megaten personalities. If you read the comment and watched the video and could see the correlation, this was in support to a point he made towards the end of the video about how people invalidate other versions of the game.
@@PTRaisin yeah people do try and invalidate others. He may not say it out loud but you can tell in his tone of voice and the feeling of contempt he gives off sometimes that his "acceptance" of people who prefer reload is very clearly more of a "oh yeah the kids can play with us too I guess" than seriously respecting their opinions as equal.
@@ConCadd I think it’s just a sense of frustration. You can tell in this video that there was a lot that pissed him off on how the community was towards the original game, if you watched his original Reload video, He never thought the game was bad. He’s also said that it was completely valid for someone to prefer Reload. The reason why it’s the tone is what I believe is to be an accumulation of disinformation and devaluing on the older PS2 version. I actually kinda reflect this on the Reload because SOME older fans do the same thing. giving your opinion on a game is different from telling someone they aren’t allowed to like it and I feel as while BubbleTea isn’t trying to invalidate anyone’s feelings, he’s a bit frustrated with people trying to invalidate his.
The point you hit on at the end was actually something I was thinking about just yesterday, how the further you go toward the middle of the remake "spectrum" the more things can go wrong. You can rerelease a game with no (intentional) changes to even worry about, or you can go the FFVII route and make something so different it's mostly impossible to compare and stands as its own piece (for better or worse). It's no maxim; I can think of a few exceptions just off the top of my head (the Destroy All Humans remakes are fantastic and P3R was pretty good), but in the worst of cases it does more damage to the original's history/preservation than if it was just left alone
@@Benjawin6671 Judging her on her own merits putting myself in the perspective of a newcomer Reload Yukari is fine. However, from my perspective in my heart towards one of my favorite characters in fiction what it comes down to is addressing an outdated criticism toning her down for people who didn't have the open mind nor understanding to like her in the first place even though there was nothing wrong with her to begin with and that is what really irks me. Most of my favorite characters in Anime are akin to a Yukari because I love how visceral and emotional they are towards their circumstances and it makes sense for them to be that way. So the existence of one of my favorite characters being altered on purpose to fit other people's interests does not jell with me. The change feels like a little girl was bullied and name called so much by the other kids in her class that she felt like she couldn't be herself without being ridiculed and that upsets me.
I wish there'd be more reviews for people who never actually played the originals - playing P3R without any knowledge of P3, or FF7 Remake & Rebirth without making references to the original FF7.
its a fucking phase dude. in a few years this is going to be a complete masterpiece and bring MORE tears to everyone's eyes. i loved persona 3 reload AND the answer, playing it on gamepass. in no way would i ever think about paying that much for a 7 hour dlc, but i seriously really enjoyed it, and it complimenting the base game is the cherry on top.
Yeah it's pretty ridiculous, you can tell how few of them even watched the video even as i disagree with the guy I feel bad that the effort he put into his thoughts in this video is wasted on what are essentially a bunch of toxic children
I already saw it coming that they would ruin The Answer, but what hurt me the most was Yukari's moment of breakdown once you defeated her in the Coliseum, yes I know they did it to make her less "unpleasant" but remember , dear Persona players that probably has more than 30 years old, SHE IS A YOUNG IMMATURE TEENAGER WHO LOST A PERSON SHE LOVED!!!!! God forbid Atlus doesn't touch p4 but it is inevitable that they are going to do it, Golden was already easy, a remake then? Will I leave it in automatic mode and still win? Not to mention how they could flanderize and ruin characters like Kanji.....
p3r was a good remake I'm sure they'll do a good job with p4 even though it doesn't need a remake in my opinion. The answer was always a mess I can't see how the reload version could fix it unless they completely change the plot
Kanji was flanderized in the original game bro. the amount of gaslighting this fandom does to convince themselves the grass is greener on the other side is wild
@@hydraball ehh idk, i just want better gameplay for p4 and better story for the climax also certain characters like izanami and marie (to be specific, her build up to an antagonist)
As somebody dealing with intense recent grief, Reload's Episode Aigis worked for me and personally I prefer Reload over FES or P3P as the "best" version of the game. But I hear what you're saying. I wouldn't say the changes ruined anything, personally, I think that's hyperbolic. But in both the main game and Episode Aigis, Reload definitely altered parts of the game in ways that diminished their impact. I just feel, as a whole, that Reload added a lot more than it took away. Anyhow, all 3 versions are very good. Highly recommend that everybody experience P3 in some form and, if they truly love it, find a way to experience all 3 versions. (I recognize that OG P3 exists out there too but...can we at least all agree that there's no reason to revisit that particular version?)
I definitely agree that game companies should try to preserve their old games better. A persona classic collection would go hard. even if it’s just selling an official emulated version of them it’d be nice to have something that includes the Oldsona games and then maybe the ps2 versions of p3 and p4.
16:40 I'm gonna defend this one because I do find it works within the context of this version of the The Answer as it signifies Aigis and others finally brings out their deep regret and yearning for the protagonist again. There is more noticeable build-up in this story where characters begins to reflect of their desire and how they brings about the Abyss of Time, which culminate in fighting their own regret given form, finally realizing their feeling toward their leader which then acknowledge and developed into the clash of ideas, this time emphasize on their feeling rather just how to move on. 21:50 I always find Mitsuru's motive a bit more improved though. It's still the same but with more addition of she also feel in debt with how much the protagonist had done for her, so it's less of a risky loyal support and more that she also agree with Yukari to a certain degree due to having a similar grief toward their leader. I do think that others than things like visual and gameplay, the story changes to Yukari's character actually made the story feel underwhelming to me. I like that SEES actually more understanding of Yukari's desire despite not agreeing with it, and Mitsuru actually have personal reason to save the protagonist and not just to support Yukari. I just wish they strike a balance with Yukari to not have her too reasonable and understanding.
I'm gonna keep saying this but no matter what people say about anything regarding reload tonally, music wise, or its presentation (which is all subjective) it is going forward the way to play for 99% of people and it's not a question for newer players to go back to the older games since these games are like 80 hour experiences and they’ll just stick to the newest most user friendly version since that’s a lot of time to invest. I'm a huge FES fan and I also like reload but the average fan doesn’t like the old graphics, ai party, clunky ui and such. If anything Reload selling 1 million in five days shows how people would rather play a new version that's updated then go back to FES, Reload trounced the prior versions in sales to an insane extent and probably already sold past 2 maybe 3 million given it’s been 8 months and given there's no real modern way to play FES and people don't exactly like setting up emulation their always gonna head to reload. And now with episode Aigis it now has everything FES had and even more with the link episodes, better vocal direction and consistency in voices, voiced social links, better fusion, compendium transfer to episode Aigis, and night time activities are expanded, more Strega, and plenty more. other then FEMC in portable, which she adds a completely different experience. This is coming from a FES fan who loves the original game a lot and actually played it growing up but I can be realistic and realize that this is the game 99% of people would enjoy regardless of the critiques and issues it has with us older fans. Plus it kinda just shows that Atlus has moved on from their older fans and their precedent ever since p4 onwards these games haven't been challenging nor having some features that they used to implement so i think its just time to move on from those grievances since those are not their focus anymore and talking about them is doing nothing as its like screaming into a void, and as there are 98% more people to appeal to instead of us small vocal parts.
While I agree with basically everything you said I dont necessarily think the lack of difficulty is something they are avoiding. The thing is original p3 and p4 came out over a decade ago, when consoles were different and the teams were less well funded and SMT was the more popular of the 2 franchises. Back then it made more sense for them to make the games SMT but with p3 they also wanted to give it a unique identity with social links. However said gameplay was buggy, and imbalanced in vanilla, only slightly better in FES and while many difficulty fans praise it, imo most of FES's difficulty stems from accidental lack of foresight than it did actual challenge. P4 and then P4G continued to refine the persona formula into it's own identity before P5 which took the longest time to develp came out. P5 was the easiest persona albi they put a lack luster merciless in both it and Royal which wasnt well thought out. And then with Royal there were sooooo many new features that it became even easier. Ultimately to me this isn't them making it easier on purpose but having a hard time knowing where to draw the line between what the player can do and how difficult the fights are. I think Heartless difficulty is proof they are thinking about difficulty and trying to meet those expectations slowly. I dont think Atlus is moving away from older fans but rather they are trying to meet their expectations but in my opinion fans who have been a part of online discourse involving persona are a lost cause.
I know Soejima was working on Metaphor and Doi on SMTV Vengeance during this time but I feel like the art direction would’ve been so much better if either one had a major role in development.
Bubbletea I may not agree with all your points but i love your videos and the effort you put on them; not to mention how honest and transparent you are. I wait with great anticipation what you got cooking for Refantazio
As someone who really enjoyed The Answer DLC for Reload, I think that it is really stupid to defend it with lies and misinformation. I think it just doesn't help us have an actual conversation of what makes the game good to some people and flawed to some people. Just be happy with what version that you like, and let people have other people's opinions coexist! It's really frustrating to see both sides of the argument start fighting over just something that doesn't really mater all that much in the end! It is just a video game about acceptance and learning to grow, so just be chill people! (Banger video by the way! You never miss!
I agree, but at the same time, it IMO, is Junpei trying to relate and understand where Yukari is coming from. Maybe you could get dialogue change if you choose NOT to save Chidori in the run you choose for Episode Aigis.
What I gather from all of this is (it's gonna be long, sorry in advance) People are upset about the characters' demeanor in FES The Answer, deeming it straight up out of character, pleading for Atlus to rework the scenes in an eventual remake Atlus notices this (for once) and they make changes according to community feedback only for the community to think that.... the new scenes are not in line with what was in FES The Answer, that the original had more impact and that they shouldn't have changed anything? EXCUSE ME WHAT THE FUCK? Obviously no offense to you, but it really feels like at this point people will find anything in Reload's offering a good opportunity to complain, and it makes me sad to see it - Yes, the lack of difficulty in the hardest difficulty IS BAD - Yes, paying 35$ for a piece of content that should have been available for free is scummy - Yes, Shadow Makoto's cutscene is really different than the original, but even then, the original was slightly dissonant in its "post cutscene" with the characters going like "OH MY GOD WE DID IT! 🤩" like they hadn't just seen a shadow resembling their closest friend literally decay into a skeleton. That cutscene still lingers in my mind frame-by-frame, so why are the party members completely unaffected by it? - Yes, the dorm activities ARE kinda goofy and they could have been used to portray different things and better But just dunking on the game because things people have been complaining about since the dawn of time have been changed feels stupid and indecisive And, just to say it, I've never complained about how the original portrayed the cast and especially Yukari, I always thought it was misguided hate. I'd want YOU in Yukari's exact position, see if you can think rationally when someone tells you that you can try to revive the person you loved most. That said, Reload does a different, and mostly valid, take on it and the new VAs do their absolute best in bringing that vision to life and I like it too.
he literally did a video on why p3 the answer was misunderstood so obviously he wasn’t one of those ppl who were blindly hating on it, he’s going to criticize reload for changing character motivations and softening it to appeal to audiences who can’t handle nuanced characters
@@justmundane I never said he was wrong, I'm just saying that I'm baffled by the amount of people that played the original that suddenly prefer it to Reload
@@ElChuggo It's not sudden. There are different people with different perspectives who played og in a different time like me for instance. People adapt and re-evaluate things they've previously experienced and thought were bad. A lot of things Reload fixed are really outdated criticisms by this point.
"Change episode Aigis to what I want!" Atlus: okay here you go! "Why would you change something we liked? Fuck you Atlus" That's the entire "controversy"
7:38 Hey wanna know something crazy! Theirs SMT fans that say 5 is too easy for the same thing you're saying for Reload. Soooooo maybe some people dismiss because it's not true to them?
And i do agree with it being easier because this happens in lots of games, not just persona. When you have a base game with "resources" to help you win and then release an DLC or a new version of the same game (FES,Golden,Royal) without new challenges to balance it, the game ends up easier... sometimes too easy. I can give you an example of another game, in the first State of Decay game you had to pray for some RNG early on because if you where unlucky, even as an experienced player you'll have a really hard time, after that the game has well balanced challenges with some dificulty spikes, the only game problem was managing morale in the game that could really being a chore sometimes. BUT on State of Decay 2 they nerfed the morale problem to a well balanced degree and BAM the game became too easy, but HOW??? Here's the thing, the game received so much more resources like new guns, new positive strats, new power moves, new lots of cool things that the very few new challenges they put in the game cant counter balance it, managing the base problems became so much easier that you can be out WAY more often and that means you'll have good weapons, new base builds etc etc WAY faster and easier. Each new Persona game releases so much more cool things that the enemies cant keep up, so it ends up a balancing team problem to make the game, fun and challeging without it being a drindy chore. An old RPG that did it just PERFECTLY to me was the first Grandia game, you could beat the game just fine with some well rounded challenges but the secret stuff from the game was STRAIGHT UP HELL ON EARTH.
Dude, there are so many thing I can complain about. But holy fuck how do you completely misunderstand Yukari like that. That girl is supposed to be running on pure emotions. Why is she sitting here have a philosophical debate with everyone?? And why doesn't she wrestle the key from Aigis. What makes Yukari's breakdown in the og so heartbreaking is that she doesn't stop fighting until Metis tells her that the key will only respond to Aigis. She keeps fighting until she literally cannot do anything and it breaks her. And having Mitsuru make a promise feels so unnecessary. It just feels cheap.
the answer is a part of the p3 story that i have always connected to deeply. it was, in FES, very raw grief. it was genuine. yukari in the answer especially felt so real, but the whole story was really genuine in its portrayal of how hard and fracturing it is to lose someone you love. i know a lot of people didn't like it, but everyone i have spoken to who has - like me - lost a loved one to suicide has the same feelings: that it is brutal, it hurts, but it means something. that pain and difficulty spike MEAN something. the fact that they dumbed it down to this extent and made it as soft and easy to digest as they did... just really sucks. BUT, that being said, that there are still people enjoying it just makes me happy. i don't get why persona fans are so uh.... angry, all the time towards each other lol. p3 is a game i love because i feel it is one of the most honest in the story and grief it conveys. it's my favorite game of all time. i have a tattoo of it, for god's sake lmao. seeing people enjoy it in any capacity will always make me happy regardless of my own opinions and feelings - i wish other people could do the same LOL
There still isnt a "definitive version" of Persona 3 (No, FES doesnt count) BUT, The Answer has very cool Basically, what im getting at is, every version has its pros and cons
as a reload glazer who has never played fes, i can confidently say if i see another person dismiss reload critisism as nostalgia blindness i might just persona 3 myself, its insane how defensive people are, watching this video made me think "damn that sucks i wish they didnt change it, still doesnt change the fact that i had fun with the game", because its how i feel, its really not that hard to accept criticism and still love the thing being criticized, as well as being able to criticize it yourself, because yeah the sees fighting arc, despite leading to the funniest and most interesting gameplay fights in the series, was extremely confusing (although its not only reloads fault bc like poor team robots and team kenhiko would have to fight 3 teams to get the master key while team yutsuru only has to fight one?), but i will also say you saying there are only 2 positive things about the dlc feels needlessly harsh, and also no mention of the music which i found to be pretty great, especially the two new tracks
The way they adapted Yukari's arc is definitely the worst offense for me. While the ending itself was well done, it doesn't feel as earned due to how watered-down Yukari's arc is. She doesn't even feel like the same character, and I liked her a lot in base Reload.
Blame the this sorry ass fan base who have shitty media literacy. They moaned and bitched about Yukari in the base game and the Asnwer. All Atlus did was respond to those complaints now y’all are still mad lmao
Reading the reactions to this video just shows me that Persona fans are like allergic to nuance or something. Which is ironic, considering that's like literally the theme of the entire series. Everything has to be sooooo black-and-white to everyone. Like, guys, you can dislike changes to a remake without being nostalgia-blind. You can also dislike things about a product you like, and like things about a product you dislike. You can also like FES, Portable, AND Reload for different reasons. You can also like any combination of the three for any reason. Bubbletea is I guess known online as like Reload's No. 1 hater, but like, his criticisms are honestly fair, and he's not even the most-negative person I've seen talk about the game before. But because he makes it no secret that he likes P3FES, and he has some criticisms about Reload, he's a nostalgia-blind rage-baiter apparently.
@@Navue-cn2tx I have yet to play it, so I cannot speak to that for you. I would recommend watching a few other videos on the topic to find out if it's worth it for you.
It's probably an unpopular opinion for the persona crowd, but i feel like if im putting in the time to learn the game, then the game should feel easier. I also played it on Heartless, being a long-time persona fan, and enjoyed the pacing of the difficulty. You can't tell me the game is easy meawhile You have the most textbook, "i know how to actually utilize fusion" physical demon. I know its the fact that you like many others have been longtime fans and know how to play the game, but trust me when i say use longtime fans arent who they are trying winover since we will most likely get it anyway even if we complain. They are trying to get new fans, which makes sense. Older Persona fans are basically the old man yelling in the room, trying to be relevant, and with how Atlus has been getting W after W, id say they continue to make games for a new audience rather than listen some old fan rabbid over analytical fan (unless its something bad like the complete editions which atlus already stated they are going to stop doing).
Not sure win after win considering what happened with Devil Summoner 2 and their MTX practices, censorship. Fans that gloss over the wrong that Atlus does say this, impartial fans call them out for the crap they do wrong and when they do right. Trying to get new fans of a newer generation, is entirely different from prior given lower attention span and inability to play anything of a slower pace/turn-based. They will gain some, but remakes were never meant to gain new fans beyond a face-lift because what worked in the past should work again, or it wouldn't get a remake. Now they are becoming revisions to appeal to a generation that requires the game industry overall to dumb down. On top of that, we have politics influencing things not just in the West, but Japan, too and far more aggressive than anything in the past. So many old developers are leaving the mainstream industry along with older gamers because what we have now is corporate over creativity. Who are left don't have much experience or stuck in trends. Not sure I consider that a good thing if good games are rare.
You're one of the only merciless players that think like this, I'm a normal player, and that's fine, i simply like to destroy the shadows, the game don't need to be hard to be good, i don't see any reasons to play on merciless
@@rdr1g457 I don't disagree with him on the difficulty, it's true. People come back to the game or start of on the hardest mode possible. If they feel it's too easy, it defeats the purpose and challenge of a game setup for strategy. Why else do you think it's turn-based and you're given options instead of hack n slash? Many mods you find for JRPGs focus on increasing difficulty or adding more challenge to it by tweaking enemies. Yes, you are a casual player that plays for the story, but those that play for both exist.
My only complaint with your argument is that yes these people know how to use the tools so they’ll have an easier time, but that still doesn’t mean that because you know how to play the game it gets completely brainless in it’s difficulty. If the game has all these systems and if you only figure one out not master but just get a grip of one. Not even mentioning the every other method, the game gets ridiculously more easy that’s not a vet player coming in with too high expectations or knowledge that’s bad game design
@@TheDracolordian always make sense to feel stronger in a game when you are nearing the end. I'd say the bosses of the answer were tough like the arena, on heartless that is.
It is weird nowdays they want to sell you a version of the game partially distinct but at the same time like the original not a flat out 1: 1 because honestly anybody would say "just emulate it" or "you are paying 70$ for something you can emulate" so now they have to put extra stuff and being different and oh boy the answer to that might surprise you. (in case it missed the point is: fans wanting the 1:1in HD)
I find Episode Aigis to be kind of a mixed bag compared to the Answer. Some of the dialogue changes I prefered. Some I don't like. Yukari literally being like "I saying I'm objectively correct or anything" feels like shes too self-aware for example and Junpeis dialogue honestly just got fucked. He seemed quite mature in the FES version which I liked as it showed his character development but then in Reload he sounds way more more uncertain and his position makes way less sense.
As someone who didn’t play the original, I enjoyed the Answer a lot I like how everyone was feeling since the MC died and it makes sense to how they feel at least to me
I think Episode Aigis is the embodiment of what is wrong with remakes nowadays. Overpriced, and barely any changes not only to warrant an increase in price, but also a reason to even remake it in the first place when the original was just fine. To get the full P3R experience you have to pay over $100 bucks for it. That is just not right. Super unfortunate.
@@gravyjones7043 My problem with Reload is that the things that are changed or replaced about P3 are switched for something incredibly dumbed down and boring in comparison and with FES not being more accessible this is what most people are stuck with. It's more accessible sure but it's as plain as a saltine cracker like dude, it's a video game. Let there be crazy wacky stuff that adds to the experience like P5 which people seem to compare it too even though I think it's way more interesting. The entire package of the game lost the ingredients however frustrating made it unique and special in comparison to the other Persona titles in the first place. The developers leaned WAAY too far into listening to people complain instead of inputting their own voice, like they were in a corner getting beaten with a bat or something. The originals vision had the exact opposite design mentality which was "Cool, whatever you say but these mechanics represents this games themes and we have no regrets." Both versions of P3 are good games don't get me wrong but it's that very reason why FES around from my most disliked and boring Persona game to a game I see now as one of my favorite games of all time.
@@corey2232 not a bad point but that doesn’t change any of the criticisms towards the actual final product. Also I would also argue the majority of players are PC/PS4/PS5 and don’t have access to Game Pass.
I made a comment about how the Dorm activities, etc. involving party members and the MC on its own recontextualized The Answer well. After having experienced them, it was a much easier pill to swallow that the team would be so distraught over it and at odds with each other. And then I said this: hopefully they won't change it too much because the context is there now. You can claim it's realistic all you want, but the goal of a narrative is to sell its choices independent of realism - believability and realism are two different things. Reality is random, a narrative is deliberate. OG FES did not sell the direction of The Answer. Reload did. Sounds like that's not what happened however. Instead of allowing the base game to contextualize the direction of the original Episode Aigis, they did not trust in the base game changes enough to not heavily mess with the narrative. It's a shame if so. I have yet to play it in part due to the ridiculous price, but if true it will be a huge let down. Part of the point of the new scenes in Reload will have been basically ignored as if they never happened. And one of the biggest Reload issues will have hit critical mass: the hand holding. It was forgivable in Reload, now I'll hopefully see if it's forgivable in EA.
Who understand gamers?? Game studio brings an old classic to new hardware, new possibilities, same story -> YEAH!!!! Game studio didn't bring originally the DLC -> everyone aks: WHY??? Game studio hears their players and bring the DLC again but modernized -> IS BAAAAD!!! Granted, the original DLC was bad, but brings a closure to the story. In the end, you can't make everyone happy.
or they could have just...ya know...released a full and definitive edition of the title itself. As it stands there's STILL no complete version of this game that exists on this planet and never will now. -_-
I really want to play FES now to see how different because I knew something felt off about episode Aigis. Character conflicts just felt sort of… flat. The parts in the journey (reload) that were meant to be emotional were, chidori’s death, shinji’s death, Makoto’s death, they all hit. The only part that hit for me was the battles against the party members, and that’s mostly because of heartful cry and the noises they made when you killed them. I’m really curious to see how different it is now in FES
Yukari being so boneless feels like the 2017 Beauty and the Beast remake where Disney tried to address Buzzfeed level criticism (why isn't the brush talking ??11?1!!) but instead of Buzzfeed Atlus catered towards misogynist 2008 gaming forum lurkers
I loved P3 FES, I will never tire of saying that this game saved my life, and it really hurt me that they toned down so many things, even so, I feel that the remake is fine. _I would recommend to everyone that they should play P3 FES and Reload equally, it's like an extended movie, both present the same thing, just in different perspectives. And one relies on the other to express and reiterate the story and its message, you can see it in a direct and raw way (P3 FES) or in an idealized and apparent way (P3 Reload)._ Hopefully in a few years they will release a P3 Reload+ version like in Royal, where they remake many of the cutscenes, which I feel is what showed the most how soft they made the game so as not to scare the casual or new player.
I’ve been saying this ever since P3:R was announced. A lot of the edges got sanded off. Both mechanically and story wise. A lot of what made P3 unique got lost in the remake. All three versions of P3 have their own strengths and weaknesses and I hope one day these really fanatical fans chill out appreciate how great all three iterations are.
If there's anything that I hate in this remake as a whole, its the fact that they toned it WAY down. Persona 5 covered a lot of heavy topics and sold the most copies (I guess they are thinking they could sell even more, if they make it more PG), even Metaphor game is not toned down like Persona 3 Reload is. I'm just disappointed tbh. I suspected they will tone down the edgy, but not to the "generic anime" extent. Also disappointed they made everyone instant friends, one thing I liked about the original was the fact that they were just roomates and werent necessarily stroking the player's ego. Also, its laughable who introduces gardening to you.
I don't see how they toned anything down....like it's still pretty dark really. I don't see how everryone is instant friends I mean by Episode Aegis they should clearly be friends really.
P5 was the embodiment of telling instead of showing, they just told you a bunch of edgy things without actually showing anything. But then P5R third semester improved on it a little bit by letting you experience marukis ideal world. The OG P3 shows you how apathy syndrome is affecting people as more people start to look like zombies around the map, and more people talk about it. And then when nyx is arriving the music changes and all the npcs have disappeared leaving the town run down and desolate
@@Jdudec367 They toned down the edginess. You havent been paying attention to the base game much or you havent played the original, if you think the game hasnt been toned down in various ways. Its ways too obvious. Even this very video shows you how much they toned down the DLC, such as censoring the way MC looking figure disappears and the cast being way less tense as to not hurt the player's "feelings".
as someone who can’t really claim a huge nostalgia bias bc I only played FES 3 years ago, I generally do like what the original title does more-but I don’t hate reload or anything.
@@gcDaydays That's such an idiotic response. By the same logic one could say that the people that think that Reload is better just have recency bias. Good job on making discussion pointless.
I loved Reload, but at the same time it feels like a lot of the changes were added not to improve on it while still capturing the essence of the game, but rather to make it more palatable to a mainstream audience. And, while I welcome those changes, seeing some of these interviews and seeing what they did with Episode Aigis feels insulting. Not because I want to play Literally The Same Game, but because they downplayed the literal point of the Episode Aigis plot only to avoid controversy. And that just makes me feel like they didn't care about preserving what Persona 3 is, or even about respecting the fans' intelligence. Sure, the original Episode Aigis wasn't perfect, but it still trusted the player to understand what it was going for. I don't know, I just have a hard time reconciling how much I enjoy this game with the fact that it's very noticeable that they prioritized downplaying a lot of it to sell more or something, regardless of the impact that had artistically.
I didn’t have very high hopes for how the game itself was going to be handled tbh. Most of my criticism goes towards the gameplay. While I did enjoy the combat I had to purposefully restrict myself in order to keep it balanced even on heartless. Megaten in general has some of the most fun turn based combat I have experienced and yet its far too easy, if you use the mechanics the game gives you it becomes trivial which is not how it should work. The difficulty options are there for a reason but god dang if there is a difficulty called heartless I am picking that under the assumption I am going to be massively challenged and yet Atlus seem scared of making the player struggle. There were definitely issues with FES Answer but in general with the originals most of the complaints about difficulty stemmed from peoples inability to even attempt to engage with tactics. I think the game should have the guts to punish you for being a lazy player but still reward smart tactics rather than just pander to them and offer easy solutions like Theurgies. It just upsets me knowing the potential some of the games could have and yet I don’t think we’re ever going to see it.
@@Eudaimonia7564I was wondering how they were going to handle some of the bits people complained about in the original. I think I went in a bit too pessimistic tbh I didn’t feel like the story did much for me, granted I already played the original but I was just going through the motions
@@Ziroikabi That's me with Persona 3 Reload in general tbh. When it first got announced I thought they were gonna go all in Full on Persona 5 mode introduce so many cool mechanics, new hangout locations with S.E.E.S less go! S.E.E.S Den with tha homies? BET! Then it came, I played it, and I was just like oh... it's Persona 3...but shiny... and boring now... *_sigghhh_*
So I think you confused two different things. The script for FES in English vs Japanese DOES have differences in terms of Yukari's tone. Even in the example you gave. Yukari (JP) - "Isn't that just a nice way of saying things? If you had something that precious, what you'd really want is to save them. Wouldn't you want to re-do the past!? To pass up this kind of chance, are you serious about that Senpai?!" Yukari (EN) - "Oh yeah, you're really one to be throwing around those high-minded ideals! If you really thought something was that precious to you, you'd want to protect it no matter what. Don't you understand!? We can go back and fix things! Are you seriously going to let this chance go!?" Compare the difference in translation to the Reload script. Yukari (Reload JP) - "I didn't say anything like that! Because, we can re-do the past! What exactly is wrong with that!?" Yukari (Reload EN) - "That's not what I said! We can actually change the past! What's wrong with wanting that!?" I don't know what you asked your friend to compare, but you're 100% off base. FES JP Yukari is desperate and a little resentful. FES EN Yukari comes across as straight up bitchy. If you play FES with JP dub you can tell how far off base FES Yukari is. It's the same with Junpei. The Reload EN script is way more accurate to the JP script and it's not even close. Also going off your other "translations", you're 100% machine translating. Please stop posing as someone who knows about localization.
Another thing to factor in was when the original English dub was recorded and conditions vs. now. Remember, back then, they didn't have a lot of time to translate these games.
Seeing Yukari just casually drop the idea that "Oh... So I can just steal the keys and use them for myself huh?" Was honestly kind of terrifying. It's such a cool detail that nobody seems to care about for whatever reason.
Even though I only played the Answer in Reload, the obvious changes to Yukari didn't feel right. And they mostly didn't feel right because this is Persona. The characters explicitly draw their strength from their convictions. Yukari, being the one who decided to just fight through the Irreconcilable Difference and the one whose battle is the last, was absolutely the wrong character to try and tone down. And while I don't necessarily take issue with her breaking down upon realizing she'd lost rather than trying in vain even more, I absolutely do not agree that any of the "no hard feelings" lines had any business being placed before her battle.
P3R cutscenes have the art direction of weekly shounen anime episodes, but with the technical quality of a movie. P3F cutscenes have the art direction of a movie, but with the technical quality of a weekly shounen anime episode. Also, I'm so annoyed that they screwed up the Metis cutscene. That was my favorite one, like cmon!
I disagree, the Episode Aigis cutscenes especially have some really bad animation. I don't watch much Anime, but it is in no way "movie tier" Agreed about FES' direction
While I personally like Reload, I do find myself deeply disappointed with a number of parts in how it was handled. And I feel like the Answer is just more compounding parts of what made me disappointed with Reload. The animations and how they handled the SEES conflict really being what hurts my view of Reload Answer, as I felt that the grief, anger, and trauma of the original conflict helped carry the story the Answer was trying to tell.
At least it’s still very enjoyable for those who haven’t played the Answer in FES before. It’s sad they had to censor so much though to avoid Yukari hate and to keep it all ages. Yukari was perfectly reasonable with the key grabbing and that gave the original even more impact since she represents a stage of grief like the rest.
I agree with nearly every point of your video, But I have to disagree with your take on the difficulty. just because you played on the hardest difficulty and didn't have a good time does not mean it did not accomplish its goals. It is statistically harder and purposefully doing its job as the hardest difficulty. You are just better than it's difficulty because you are experienced with how the games mechanics. If that's the case, pick up a harder game that'll hit your difficulty itch. Don't knock points off of something that's doing its job.
@@Emmetlovesredvelvet13 There are plenty of games out there that uphold there difficulty no matter how good you are and how long the game goes on for. Not sure what "good" of a job it's doing at upholding a harder challenge when it's literally throwing every possible thing at you to break the game. You can't even avoid the ambush upgrades like you could in the original, you open up a chest and now the shadows are cooked. Theurgies are obvious how you can break the game but the fact that you can just go upstairs to get your Sp back, combine this with Fuuka who has jamming and escape route, stack a major arcana (which is easy as frick to do) and watch yourself get showered in exp, there is no threat whatsoever. How in the world is it doing it's job?
Wait because someone "Knows the game more" it cant fail on how hard it is because Statistically it is harder. Just because you understand something doesn't mean that makes it easy or hard, its up to the game on if it can do its own difficulty right and sadly it was done poorly.
Aren't harder difficulties specifically for people who have more knowledge? you could have a difficulty that gives enemies 50 extra health and technically that's "harder", but it wouldn't really harder to the person who just played normal. There's also the secondary point that shouldn't remakes also be made for returning players? No one starting out is playing merciless, so why not try to tune it for people who mastered p3 fes? but even if I agreed for the base game that having too much knowledge can trivialize any difficulty, this is post game DLC, so shouldn't the people who played the base game on the hardest difficulty be challenged even though they are "experienced with the mechanics"? Difficulty is pretty subjective, so it think it's still a thing you can knock off points for.
That and people need to accept that it's okay to lower difficulties if they can give you a more balanced expereince. I honestly don't think there is anything wrong with lowering the difficulty to Normal if Hard or Nightmare are ruining your experience.
i am good at rpgs, i played p3r on "hard" and died once throughout the whole game, it was not hard, i played yakuza like a dragon on hard, i died 5 times in the first 4 chapters of the game, it was hard, do you see the difference between those 2 difficultys? which one do you think is the right one?
No, you just want Reload to be exactly like SMT. That is the exact opposite of a fair critique. This isn't even that franchise. Get over yourself, you petulant child.
Not every point is a fair critique in the video. Like Yukari's tone of voice in the English VA...it's not "toned down" from the original, the OG with Michelle Ruff was the one that was over done and the new English VA tried to match the Japanese. Also the difficulty aspect...it's okay to lower the difficulty if the higher ones are ruining your experience...I personally enjoy playing on normal and don't see a reason to play on harder difficulties and been having a great time.
@@ye9945 Pretty much this...I played the original and I loved it for what it was and I love how the new one is faithful to it while improving upon it. Sure, it's not perfect by any means, but it's no where near as "garbage" as people try to make oyu believe with their biases.
22:44 i dislike this interpretation of Yukari's jealousy ngl, makes it sound like a corny love-tringle plot (not that there isn't one between them, but its mostly played for laughs) Yukari's problems goes way deeper then that. She would still be jealous if Junpei got the wild card. Yukari discussion aside, great video, I agree with most of your points and I consider episode Aigis a massive disappointment.
I like to think Yukari WAS jealous of Aigis, but in the sense that Aigis having Orpheus is a huge slap in the face for her. She loved Makoto just as much as Aigis did (regardless of if that's romantic or platonic), and yet she gets to have something of his? She gets to have this reminder of their connection, of his existence, while Yukari gets nothing except for pain and suffering. I think that was (part of) her mindset. Not that it matters that much, it's just some nuance to a greater character arc.
3:13 maybe this is the just the consequences of never playing the original or FES, in a game that focuses more on the Personas, switching up weapons doesn’t make that much of a difference IMO. Especially since you already have a character that can use more than one Persona. If anything, this is more balanced for team compositions to make you want to rely on the other party members for weapon damage (assuming you’re lucky enough to fight a shadow with a physical weakness). I’m glad that the concept of switching up Overworld weapons is revisited in Metaphor Refantazio. But it works better for that game IMO, because it encourages switching up and using different Archetypes which are tied to the weapon types. Something with again, separates Archetypes from the Personas. 4:26 I mean, is it that big of a deal. Besides, you have an even harder difficulty in Reload here. Let the players have a choice to enjoy the games at different levels. 7:04 if their is any major grips I had with Persona 3 Reload the Answer is that Shadow Major doesn’t use Theurgy, granted it would be impossible to do with Makoto’s design but still… 11:25 There was no full voice dialogue for any of them. This makes me very sad. 13:39 I definitely agree with this though, and I think it might have to do with the preparations for Metaphor Refantazio (Atlus’s biggest project thus far). 15:20 I already said this before, but this is the only cutscene I didn’t mind simply because we got to see SEES’s reactions, something we didn’t get in FES. 18:20 When does Atlus trust their fanbase for ANYTHING!? I’d more surprised if they did. Sadly, there are too many illiterate people out there that even the most basic of 🤬 won’t get the point across. People are just that ignorant. It saddens me to say this, but it’s true. 21:12 I thought Akihiko’s added line in this game was ACTUALLY really good. 22:05 to be fair, I think that’s something Yukari needed to here. Yukari could have talked to ANYONE about her problems. Not just Mitsuru. Makoto’s death was EVERYONE’s grief, the Abyss of Time is because of EVERYONE’s grief. The Shadow Makoto fight was, again, the result of EVERYONE’S GRIEF! As far as I’m concerned, as much as I understand where you’re coming from, this change didn’t have to be a bad thing. And as someone who also wished that Yukari’s desperation attempt to take back the key was kept in Reload, I think this dialogue should help Yukari understand that EVERYONE shares in what Yukari is feeling in their own way and she could have relied on anyone to help her cope (be it Mitsuru or any of her other friends). Remember! Yukari was closer to Fuuka than she was to Mitsuru prior to November. 22:15 I don’t agree with this at all. You have to keep in mind that Reload was made with the Platonic routes in mind. Regardless of if Yukari, Aigis, Mitsuru or Fuuka were in a relationship with Makoto or not, I don’t think it changes anything. It certainly doesn’t help that you are forced to date everyone on a Max Social Links run of FES. So I really don’t think this matters as much as you claim IMO.
I hate how they defanged Yukari in the remake of the answer. With how much I dislike the answer’s gameplay this was my last hope but atlus couldn’t stay true to fes even in this, arguably most important and best scene
@@ZX-Gear what you call neutered is actually keeping her true to the original Japanese script, they changed Yukari's personality a lot in the original English translation and made her way more sassy than she actually was
@@ZX-Gear I am sorry while one can talk about how questionable localization can be if anyone actually prefers MTL that just means they are a special kind of touched in the head lol.
The last bit about the contentiousness of Episode Aigis and Answer in general is precisely the point of the whole DLC. The characters, much like the fanbase are conflicted, confused, and overall contending with the actions and proceedings that Makoto did. Is this not too dissimilar to how the persona fanbase reacts to the presentation of the original game and its remakes? Is it not? The fanbase should follow in the footsteps of the characters in The Answer. That being to move on from the past and to pursue future harmony. Games, much like people that have passed, stay as they were in fixed time. The only thing that has changed is the thought about them.
@@Navue-cn2tx someone on (unfortunately) Bluesky told bubbletea to "pull a Ronnie McNutt on [himself]" over this video, on top of claiming his "garbage channel is slowly dying" that user also accused him of complaining about Joker being an optional secret boss… which he didn't, so…
Yeah, I've completely blocked all contact with the Persona community outside of a few UA-cam channels because it's genuinely so draining to even see this fanbase discuss anything, let alone join the arguement. It's like they have a serious mental degeneration that makes them entirely incapable of processing subjectivity, opinions and nuance, add to that a lot of them being misogynistic, every other ist and phobic incels and it's just fucking unbelievable that these people have any semblance of respect for themselves and want to be taken seriously. The good, level headed Persona fans that just like talking about the games and shooting the shit are so overshadowed by these people that I'm genuinely beginning to question if it's even a "vocal minority" anymore.
For me, Theurgies aren't too strong, generally at least. It's that so often enemies of the optional variety have such huge health bars while forcing to to spend most of your actions buffing, healing, and debuffing, so the low damage of normal attacks becomes negligible. As for story bosses, well they ironically have the opposite problem of having way too little health. And strangely less actions per turn than the final story bosses in the main game to their name. Amada two tapped my Aigis on Heartless because I accidentally had a Persona equipped weak to Light. Shadow MC didn't even get close to that scenario.
Reload is really impressive because it's made me somehow miss parts of FES that i didn't even fw that much. I dunno, like I didn't even like the original Episode Aigis a lot - it wasn't bad but it was shallow and Reload just manages to make its weaknesses more apparent, somehow. It's good to know that the localization arguments were indeed a bunch of bullshit though. Who could've seen that coming...
I think while visually interesting, og answer's scene was completely out of the blue and nothing like everything else in the game, like it doesn't really fit. I actually completely forgot this scene until the discourse started. I haven't finished episode Aigis yet, but man am I having so much more fun than in the original (yeah, yeah git gud - tactics are fun blah blah, sure), I don't think the fact that the game is easier make it worse, fans will always find broken shit to make game a cakewalk, Atlus wanted to make game fun first and foremost and I think they succeeded in that.
Finally a person that can think properly, i can understand the script thing, but I'll never understand what some persona fans have with difficulty, like, why does it need to be hard to be fun? My broken Siegfried goes brrrrr
@@rdr1g457 I don't think the point is that Persona can only be fun by being hard. Different players want different experiences, whis is totally fine! But the game has a hard mode and a merciless mode and none of those are hard in the slightest, and that's the point. If a game adds a difficulty level above hard, I'm expecting that mode to be challenging. It should reward me for understanding and mastering the combat system. But I played the game in merciless mode, and theurgies allowed me to completely cheese most battles, which is not good for a difficulty level that is supposed to be hard. The point isn't about Persona needing to be fun, but about hard modes needing to be, at least, harder than mindlessly spamming theurgies.
@@funyarinpa9464 Well, the only solutions for that are limiting yourself by not using some items or mechanics, or download some mod that make the game harder
@@rdr1g457Well that just sounds like bad game design having players deliverately ignore gameplay mechanics or having to install mods so you aren't completely steamrolling the game (on the hardest difficulty).
@@ew275x I can't say that is a lie, but it is what it is, we can only hope that Atlus balance more the games in the future, i don't know in SMT, because i never played it, but the difficulty in the recent persona games is almost always pretty broken, which i don't see as a problem, but a lot of people do, and i think the main reason that original P3 was harder than reload is the fact that you couldn't control your party members, and some other mechanics like the tired members stuff
A remake of the answer was the prime oportunity to fix what people didn't like (The tartarus 2.0 and grinding) and keep or expand what people liked (the story) But Atlus did the exact opposite, they changed a lot from the story for worse and kept the Tartarus 2.0 and the grindy stuff Personally I don't mind the gameplay stuff but I've seen a lot of newcomers that get bored of doing 3 hours dungeon crawling just for 5 minutes of plot
To be fair its not just newbies that was true for the original your always gonna get bored of dungeon crawling and barely any plot. Like most people stopped playing and watched on youtube at that point.
The atmosphere was never going to be the same from the start when they added Wind Waker HD style bloom over everything along with all the changes that have already been talked about ad nauseum.
2007: The Answer is bad
2017: The Answer is bad
2024: The Answer FES is good, Reload version is bad
2034: Reload version is good, FeMC version is bad
2055: femc is good, persona 1 redream is mid
My opinion:
2007: The Answer is great.
2017: The Answer is even better.
@@darthvaderbn nobody will ever say FEMC is good lmao unless ofc they reeetrarded
My opinion
The answer is bad
Reload episode aegis is slightly less bad but still bad
I swear people always tip toeing their opinions, I bet many people will adapt to the opinion of this video because they can't make their own..
I'm sorry, but i just had to laugh at the people thinking Aigis and Akihiko were training when, in reality, they were trying to beat the life out of each other.
ngl im not sure why that cutscene is in the game in the first place, like genuinely im not saying it is bad or anything i just have no clue why they would include that moment there, so honestly i feel like most people who thought they were training were just really confused, when i watched the cutscene i was like, "wait are they fighting each other? that doesnt make any sense so surely its sparring? but that also doesnt make any sense bc they clearly dont fight as if sparring and that would be a pointless cutscene"
@@Iamverykarpy It's there for foreshadowing. The original cutscene was directed incredibly well with Akihiko dodging bullets and Aigis showing emotionless malice as she spins around with really cool camera movement to point her finger guns. In Reload she throws a kick...he blocks...Metis does a thing like the animation is P4GA level. There's no fluidity in the movement, and you can't even feel the impact of anything they are doing.
@@ShadowOfMassDestruction idk i feel like foreshadowing shouldnt be so, direct, if that makes any sense. Also the fact that it looks like the sees members genuinely wanted to fucking kill each other in og just seems wrong,
@@Iamverykarpy It's more like hollywood movie/Anime type foreshadowing like how they kinda did in Persona 5's intro. As for the fighting in the context of P3/FES they had a much stronger conviction in their beliefs than what Reload showed so they are friends before and after the battle but it's no holds barred until then, you can't really look all nice and sympathetic in a fight.
Honestly, the Answer has always made a bit of sense to me despite how controversial it is. Death is hard for everyone and extremely difficult to accept. It's not uncommon for people to regress when a loved one dies.
The MC in this game was canonically their courageous leader and friend who helped them brave life and death. Maintaining hope through the worst of it and sacrificing himself to save them and everyone they loved.
From the perspective of a reader and player, it hurts to see characters regress to a point before such meaningful growth. I understand the frustration and anger one would feel from the sight. But it also shows just how much impact the player had on these characters if this is the result of such a loss.
Everyone deals with grief differently, and the Answer isn't afraid to show the ugly side we'd all rather pretend doesn't exist and forget.
The Answer, for me, was always a story about pain.
About the visceral part of losing somebody. Because, even though most characters have faced death, now they have no purpose.
They don't have a big enemy to defeat or a big vengeance to have.
They just have to keep living and that is really hard after something like the story of P3.
Somebody they loved and that they depended on... is gone.
And he is gone forever.
And many of them don't know what to do with those feelings.
The Answer is a story I love, because I don't only remember what the characters say in the PS2 version.
I remember how they said it.
I remember how Ken asked about why the protagonist died, since the hospital never gave any explanation.
I love how Yukari is taking it horribly. That is actually powerful and memorable.
The Answer was short and hard, gameplaywise and storywise.
That was the point for me.
Everything is painful and impactful.
In the original, the shadow of their regrets died in a very inhuman yet beautiful way.
It is uncomfortable. But that is the point.
This whole damn chapter is supposed to be uncomfortable.
It is like a long elevator ride after a fricking tragedy.
I just ended Reload and I actually enjoyed it.
It is different than FES, but it was good for me.
Yet, if The Answer is like this, maybe I can wait and just buy Refantazio with the half I would be saving O.O
This.
@@FlamasNegras You said it. It's so weird that people can't even sympathize with basic human emotions that they would otherwise find no issue understanding in a real life scenario. Like imagine hating your Mom because she was just a little bit mean after losing the love of her life, like c'mon who let these middle schooler kids cook with this criticism? I'm don't think Hashino himself would tone this element of raw human emotion down like this but the Atlus devs missed the entire point too. That aside the Metaphor demo is HYPE and I am most definitely looking forward to the full game release.
trust me. Episode Aigis is, while not perfect, is still worth it and this video WAY overselling the issues. Definitely wait for a price drop though or if you can, play it on Gamepass
@@ShadowOfMassDestruction That's because its not real life and sometimes video games stories don't translate the same emotions the same exact way. While the orignal anwser was okay ish it wasn't good either. We didn't need a scenario where the party went through hurt or loss, it should've just ended where the original ending was. Like we get its about pain, but just cause something is about that doesn't mean the execution was good. It wasn't good in the original and its ever worse now.
@@Raytheman581 Subjective and I totally disagree.
The day this fandom stops overselling Yukari's jealousy towards Aigis and actually talks about her grief and how her actions in The Answer tie themselves to her past and the previous coping strategies she did in regard to dealing with the 10 years worth of trauma and isolation she endured before the beginning of Persona 3 (putting all of that pain into a goal) is the day I know peace.
She lost someone she LOVED, period. It deeply affected her in comparison to the rest of SEES, because she suddenly and with no clear answer as to why (just like with her dad), lost the person who helped her start truly healing from the loss of her dad and family and the 10 years worth of trauma that came with that (ironic); helped her stop consciously putting people at arms length because she was terrified of being so close to someone then losing them, which is exactly what happened. Platonic or romantic, it does not matter (though it's totally canon like c'mon); her stance in The Answer will always make sense.
That is something I agree with...people are over reacting to Yukari and acting like she's even worse than Jun and Takaya which is stupid.
You would think her right out telling Aigis that she had a "petty jealousy, plain and simple" would make people understand.
Same jealousy that Yukari had for Mitsuru and Junpei had for the Protagonist when he was the Leader and not Junpei.
@@MariusBoss11458 Fans love to play favorites with characters and will dileberately label characters for the simplest of things they say and do.
Like when Yukari teased Junpei about being scared, instead of understanding that she was scared too and was hoping Junpei would alleviate her fears, people are acting like she's Hitler for simply teasing him like that.
No really, I met someone who said that she was a narcissistic person who uses others for her own ends...that's how crazy people in this fandom can be if they decide to dislike a character.
you're expecting a lot here. Fandoms are very stupid and cancerous pretty much every time. They get things so far off the mark that engaging with them can end up killing your enjoyment of a series.
@@Danielss250 I think it's worse that ever now because nowadays there is this portion of "fans" that don't actually play/watch the product themselves, but they just follow whatever hottake that is trending and adapt it as their own opinion if they believe it to tbe the "consensus".
Maybe if this fanbase didn’t have such bad media literacy when the Answer came out Wada wouldn’t feel the need to change any scenes
True
>media literacy
I think the directors for this game still hold most of the responsibility for the decision they make before publishing the game, I'm not expecting gamers to do the heavy lifting in identifying what makes a story/product good
If the fanbase didn't have such bad media literacy, The Answer wouldn't have been neccessary at all. The only reason it exists to begin with is to answer if Makoto died at the end of the game and why, things that have answers in the base game for those who paid attention.
@@jeezycreezy4220 the answer existed to sell FES
I think persona fans have an empathy problem cuz even tho yukari was tripping i understood why she behaved the way she did
First Yukari, then Akechi, understanding nuance is one hell of a lost art in this fanbase.
Definitely not looking forward to when P1, P2IS, or P2EP ever get remade cause hoo boy.
almost like some... empathy syndrome...
@@izzy1356 Even P4 would have this problem, since some weirdos still argue that Kanji is actually gay while Naoto is transsexual for some reason.
Its from twitter overuse I swear everyone on that platform is a sociopath.
Literally
I still remember reading some Steam forum post or review like a day after the DLC dropped saying "This will be the biggest test of media literacy in history" or something among those lines. Boy how funny that comment was in retrospect
the E shadow scene is a lot worse in reload ngl, ik its more like emotionally significant but there was smth about the og having him literally being skinned to bones hitting at the reality of death just as much, if not harder than the reload scene
I know that there are laws to this that held them back from doing the cutscene like this again. A lot of things in Episode Aigis though I feel like they fail to find a middleground to certain things like Yukari for example. Instead of tweak the dialogue they just outright remove a small but significant detail to a scene and for this they coulda kept this but also added the characters expressions amd inputs. Iunno man, it's not bad but like... it could be better.
I mean yeah but in the og that cutscenes is also heavily inconsistent with p3's style and also it's a bit too gory for my tastes at least, I definitely welcome this more emotional approach
@@ShadowOfMassDestructionyou went back to the classic pfp lol but yeah I agree I do like the og fes shadow Makoto thing more it’s just so mysterious creepy and fascinating to me
@@cristianoducceschi3547that too
My assumption is that due to Atlus now belonging to Sega they were not allowed to remake it in such a way, due to sega being a "kids company" and all.
They did something like that in like a dragon infinite wealth where a character was gutted but you only see the non mutilated parts of the corpse and the rest is out of frame.
Since you here cannot put makoto out of frame they did the SMT V death thing i guess.
I laughed my ass off when I heard Marsh's voice. Dude's the most estranged and isolated megaten youtuber to the community so hearing him over here caught me by surprise
Speaking as a Reload fan who enjoyed the DLC, I think your criticisms are totally fair. While I had watched the PS2 version of the Answer in video form before, I never played FES and thus didn't have the same nostalgic attachment that a lot of other people had. It'd also been long enough that I didn't remember the exact dialogue in the original vs Reload's iteration. I think that made it easier for me to just roll with it and enjoy the experience, but I'm not gonna act like Reload is inherently superior. I think it's really gonna depend on what people want out of the experience.
For me, Reload's version was just more approachable. All the quality of life changes made it more manageable for me personally, and I don't think I would have had as fun playing the PS2 version just based on personal preferences, but I can respect the original, and I do think preservation is important, especially since the last rerelease of FES is on the PS3's PSN, if I recall correctly.
The discussion around the DLC really became like the fight between SEES
As someone that has only played the remake version of episode Aigis, the conflict between the members of SEES being much stronger in the original makes a lot of sense. I was really confused with the whole "fighting in unevitable" shit each character was yapping about because of how mild the disagreement between each of em feels in the remake. Like, Is like the game wants to tell you that each member of SEES Is so convinced of what they want that they aren't open for a normal debate, and therefore they need to fight, but then what It shows Is just a bunch of teenagers having different opinions and that's It. So being so seeing then all being so stubborn about waiting to fight was kinda jarring ngl
They toned down the argument after they got the keys or something?
The original answer wasn’t really good in the scene either where it came across as though it was just yukari causing the conflict and the others were somewhat unified despite everyone else seperated
They had limited time and couldn't agree so Yukari pushed them to fight. It's not a small disagreement. If they failed they would end the world.
with the way discussion around this game goes im scared for the day a persona 4 remake is announced lol
I swear people are gonna b!tch if they tone down Marie's brattiness which is what the grand majority of people disliked about her (assuming she will come back)
I’ve never played FES and first experienced The Answer through Reloads version, so I obviously was not aware of the differences and changes made. That being said, after being made aware of what was changed and toned down, I wish I was able to experience the OG version first, at least in terms of story and cutscenes. Just the OG Shadow Makoto scene alone is something I wish I could’ve seen while playing the game, shit looks metal as fuck
So while I don’t dislike the remake of The Answer (mainly because it’s the only version I’ve played and I can’t compare it to FES since I’ve never played that version), I think it’s incredibly valid that people find it to be a watered down version of sorts. I’ll probably play the FES version sometime in the future to get the full experience
Reload is the full experience. The bitches like this youtuber just want Persona to be exactly like SMT even though that would make Persona sell like shit since SMT sells horribly in comparison to the Persona franchise.
@@joshstephens413
how ?
he only metions about smt VV ONCE for example about difficulty and that all to it
where the part he want persona to be smt ?
are you even watch the entire vids or something ?
also like judging the quality of persona and smt games through sales is weird points
how can you even judging a video games just by sales without ever playing it to know if its good or not
its make no sense
You make a lot of good points, and I especially agree with the dev overcorrection for The Answer's controversy right when people finally realized its story was actually good. My one point of disagreement is your difficulty comparison. I don't think mainline SMT and Persona are meant to be comparable in difficulty. Persona is meant for more broad appeal, and I know that's no excuse for dumbed-down gameplay but I kinda feel Reload's gameplay only feels dumbed down to an ultra-experienced MegaTen veteran, and I think those kinds of people are meant to get their difficulty fix from mainline.
21:10 Man, can you imagine if they remade Fire Emblem Three Houses and had Edelgard talk like this??
idk man. if you have a difficulty called "heartless" that's a step above the game's "hard" mode, then i don't think it's unfair for people to have the expectation that this difficulty IS for the veteran persona players to get their thrills. plus p-studio made it very clear in their interviews that they wanted to remain cognizant of the older fanbase and appeal to them too.
It's a pattern across various game genres that games are lowering their difficulty and dumbing things because of attention spans being low with newer gamers. Fighting games have controls that let you do moves with one button, not input them, handholding and yellow paint markers. There was a thing from Reddit where a young gamer couldn't figure out how to find the cave in FFVIII and was lost at the port. They didn't read dialogue and needed a map marker/objective marker to tell them where to go. That defeats the purpose of big aspects of game design. It's also been a common critique even when not being critical that games are easier and remasters, remakes are easier than originals.
Was pretty sure that persona was considered a hard game in general... except until recently.
@@MrFreakHeavypersona was considered a harder series until p4g/p5 came out because they made mechanics that made the games mind numbingly easy. people say that “persona has always been an easy franchise” when that just isn’t true. It’s that the only games available on current gen platforms are the games that have streamlined mechanics that make the games easy in comparison to vanilla p4, and P3 FES.
@@justmundane I think the PS1 games are easy, so yeah Persona 3 Fes and then 4 Vanilla are the hardest games in the franchise.
Yukari adding caveats to her position like "this isn't objectively right" is absolutely tone deaf. The writers either did not know these characters or were being commandeered by higher-ups who were too afraid to get the same backlash as before. Well, guess what, now they can get new backlash for the "not objectively" worse dialogue.
Yukari being snappy and illogical is part of the intended writing. She's just lost the most important person in her life-regardless if you read it as romantic, she loved Makoto. It's almost as if the original story was trying to commentate on that experience and give people a character to relate to.
Reload's dialogue overall is just less impactful and feels like it's overexplaning everything for no reason instead of focusing on prose and tone. ESPECIALLY personal tone, it's completely ripped out of the characters and they all talk the same way in certain redone scenes.
You are right about Yukari but people complained about how she was in the answer and that I think is the main reason they changed her.
Now people are complaining when Atlus looked at the criticism and changed her character to what they wanted.
You really can't win in this world.
It really isn't that bad or tone deaf and hate is honestly overblown. They knew the characters and they still acted in character. It honestly isn't worse dialogue just different.
It still is impactful and her not being as snappy doesn't take away what she really lost, and well..with the added social link like stuff I disagree the focus on and prose is there with some adding breathing room. I don't see how any personal tone was ripped out of the characters or how they all talk the same way at all in any scenes.
Having never played the original episode aigis I didn’t notice a character shift for anyone except Akihiko, everyone felt like themselves, maybe I would like the original dialogue better tho
@@TheLostSheep578by the time this came out, "Answer Yukari bad" became pretty much an unpopular opinion, it's Atlus addressing an outdated criticism.
It's not the first game to do it, a lot of entertainment is becoming this way. They don't trust people to understand things on their own, so things are told to outright or explained, guiding players through a game various ways. I think the fact many don't read much either, that reflects on writing, so it will decline as well.
You gotta love how the guy makes a point of how the fanbase is so easily offended by differing opinions and then one look at the comment section shows the same behaviour.
Overall i dont agree Episode Aigis's changes were bad. I do agree that one cutscene was better before.
But everything else was very much in line with how these characters were in the game. Yes their running off emotions and grief but they still care about each other is how i interpret it. Yes interpret because there are no absolutes in discussing fiction well not always anyway.
People are gonna bitch and moan about which is better, instead of acting like adults and having an opinion and respecting each other and the developers. You can't say they dont understand these characters after the lengths they went through with Reload in the first place. You can however disagree with their interpretation.
thing is Tea himself and other megaten online personalties aren't actually any better about this. casting stones from a glass house.
imo the reason why some of the fighting scenes look goofy is cuz of the camera angle and cuts. like in fes, it's also pretty slow, but the cuts and camera angle made it feel tense.
Facts
Episode Aigis felt like they wanted to create conflict without being too conflictive. FES had this air of conflict brewing and reaching its boiling point, finally getting to the point where it felt obvious that the party was going to fight over this, no one was giving an inch, it was a clear "you are wrong, I am right" which concluded with fights thag were both physical struggles and a battle of wills. Who had more conviction of their feelings than the other... I always disliked that we fought Akihiko and Ken first, since were very solid in their decision. It aas very clear when Aigis was told "we can't let you fight Yukari with so much indecision, she will wipe the floor with you."
The raw emotional energy and the very direct statements of the characters were so good. "If I could rewrite the past to save Shinji and Miki, I'd flat out refuse," is such a powerful statement from Akihiko, which gets destroyed in Reload, they also add extra explanation to his position that is unwarranted... why does he have to explain himself when to him the question he proposed to Yukari is explanation enough... and the answer is "flat-out refuse." FES, despite its shortcomings in gameplay, wasa short and powerful piece of media that struck square at the human psyche (shoutouts to Metis's persona). I think we have become too soft to see such conflict in these times.
I really resonated with that ending. The discussion around this game and the original, and all versions is filled with controversy. I also feel that people put labels out to try to devalue others. I have a very high opinion of Reload, it just sucks that the community can't act like all versions are valid ways to play, even with whichever you prefer.
This!
yeah tea and other megaten personalities are one of those groups of people throwing labels.
completely tone deaf
@@ConCadd I never said BubbleTea was at fault. I also don’t think this is the fault of many megaten personalities. If you read the comment and watched the video and could see the correlation, this was in support to a point he made towards the end of the video about how people invalidate other versions of the game.
@@PTRaisin yeah people do try and invalidate others. He may not say it out loud but you can tell in his tone of voice and the feeling of contempt he gives off sometimes that his "acceptance" of people who prefer reload is very clearly more of a "oh yeah the kids can play with us too I guess" than seriously respecting their opinions as equal.
@@ConCadd I think it’s just a sense of frustration. You can tell in this video that there was a lot that pissed him off on how the community was towards the original game, if you watched his original Reload video, He never thought the game was bad. He’s also said that it was completely valid for someone to prefer Reload. The reason why it’s the tone is what I believe is to be an accumulation of disinformation and devaluing on the older PS2 version. I actually kinda reflect this on the Reload because SOME older fans do the same thing. giving your opinion on a game is different from telling someone they aren’t allowed to like it and I feel as while BubbleTea isn’t trying to invalidate anyone’s feelings, he’s a bit frustrated with people trying to invalidate his.
The point you hit on at the end was actually something I was thinking about just yesterday, how the further you go toward the middle of the remake "spectrum" the more things can go wrong. You can rerelease a game with no (intentional) changes to even worry about, or you can go the FFVII route and make something so different it's mostly impossible to compare and stands as its own piece (for better or worse). It's no maxim; I can think of a few exceptions just off the top of my head (the Destroy All Humans remakes are fantastic and P3R was pretty good), but in the worst of cases it does more damage to the original's history/preservation than if it was just left alone
By the time I'm writing this comment, nobody has fully watched the video.
Bubbletea or his editor, editing the video: 💀👀
@@EndgameThor16 They don't count.
Yukari just can't win.
No, cuz the MC is Aigis not yukari
Fax. I mean come on they still did an amazing job with her here. I don't get what's so wrong with her in Reload.
@@Benjawin6671 Judging her on her own merits putting myself in the perspective of a newcomer Reload Yukari is fine. However, from my perspective in my heart towards one of my favorite characters in fiction what it comes down to is addressing an outdated criticism toning her down for people who didn't have the open mind nor understanding to like her in the first place even though there was nothing wrong with her to begin with and that is what really irks me.
Most of my favorite characters in Anime are akin to a Yukari because I love how visceral and emotional they are towards their circumstances and it makes sense for them to be that way. So the existence of one of my favorite characters being altered on purpose to fit other people's interests does not jell with me. The change feels like a little girl was bullied and name called so much by the other kids in her class that she felt like she couldn't be herself without being ridiculed and that upsets me.
I think we should’ve definitely been able to save Makoto
I wish there'd be more reviews for people who never actually played the originals - playing P3R without any knowledge of P3, or FF7 Remake & Rebirth without making references to the original FF7.
its a fucking phase dude. in a few years this is going to be a complete masterpiece and bring MORE tears to everyone's eyes. i loved persona 3 reload AND the answer, playing it on gamepass. in no way would i ever think about paying that much for a 7 hour dlc, but i seriously really enjoyed it, and it complimenting the base game is the cherry on top.
I was skeptical of your comments about people being unreasonable about criticism until I read some of the comments.
Yeah it's pretty ridiculous, you can tell how few of them even watched the video even as i disagree with the guy I feel bad that the effort he put into his thoughts in this video is wasted on what are essentially a bunch of toxic children
I love P3 fes and the answer tbh, as a Yukari fan I hate P3 Reload episode aigis. Definition of missing the plot
I already saw it coming that they would ruin The Answer, but what hurt me the most was Yukari's moment of breakdown once you defeated her in the Coliseum, yes I know they did it to make her less "unpleasant" but remember , dear Persona players that probably has more than 30 years old, SHE IS A YOUNG IMMATURE TEENAGER WHO LOST A PERSON SHE LOVED!!!!! God forbid Atlus doesn't touch p4 but it is inevitable that they are going to do it, Golden was already easy, a remake then? Will I leave it in automatic mode and still win? Not to mention how they could flanderize and ruin characters like Kanji.....
p3r was a good remake I'm sure they'll do a good job with p4 even though it doesn't need a remake in my opinion. The answer was always a mess I can't see how the reload version could fix it unless they completely change the plot
Kanji was flanderized in the original game bro.
the amount of gaslighting this fandom does to convince themselves the grass is greener on the other side is wild
@@hydraball ehh idk, i just want better gameplay for p4 and better story for the climax also certain characters like izanami and marie (to be specific, her build up to an antagonist)
The Answer wasn't ruined. Lol
As somebody dealing with intense recent grief, Reload's Episode Aigis worked for me and personally I prefer Reload over FES or P3P as the "best" version of the game. But I hear what you're saying. I wouldn't say the changes ruined anything, personally, I think that's hyperbolic. But in both the main game and Episode Aigis, Reload definitely altered parts of the game in ways that diminished their impact. I just feel, as a whole, that Reload added a lot more than it took away.
Anyhow, all 3 versions are very good. Highly recommend that everybody experience P3 in some form and, if they truly love it, find a way to experience all 3 versions. (I recognize that OG P3 exists out there too but...can we at least all agree that there's no reason to revisit that particular version?)
I definitely agree that game companies should try to preserve their old games better. A persona classic collection would go hard. even if it’s just selling an official emulated version of them it’d be nice to have something that includes the Oldsona games and then maybe the ps2 versions of p3 and p4.
Guess I’m the only one that liked the DLC then? Damn…
Yeah I guess that includes me too
Nah dw we are not the only ones, it's just a vocal minority@@RavenGamingOverLord
I liked it too 😊
being an honest P3 and Answer fan is a lonely life innit
@@ConCadd more like sane
16:40 I'm gonna defend this one because I do find it works within the context of this version of the The Answer as it signifies Aigis and others finally brings out their deep regret and yearning for the protagonist again. There is more noticeable build-up in this story where characters begins to reflect of their desire and how they brings about the Abyss of Time, which culminate in fighting their own regret given form, finally realizing their feeling toward their leader which then acknowledge and developed into the clash of ideas, this time emphasize on their feeling rather just how to move on.
21:50 I always find Mitsuru's motive a bit more improved though. It's still the same but with more addition of she also feel in debt with how much the protagonist had done for her, so it's less of a risky loyal support and more that she also agree with Yukari to a certain degree due to having a similar grief toward their leader.
I do think that others than things like visual and gameplay, the story changes to Yukari's character actually made the story feel underwhelming to me. I like that SEES actually more understanding of Yukari's desire despite not agreeing with it, and Mitsuru actually have personal reason to save the protagonist and not just to support Yukari. I just wish they strike a balance with Yukari to not have her too reasonable and understanding.
I'm gonna keep saying this but no matter what people say about anything regarding reload tonally, music wise, or its presentation (which is all subjective) it is going forward the way to play for 99% of people and it's not a question for newer players to go back to the older games since these games are like 80 hour experiences and they’ll just stick to the newest most user friendly version since that’s a lot of time to invest. I'm a huge FES fan and I also like reload but the average fan doesn’t like the old graphics, ai party, clunky ui and such. If anything Reload selling 1 million in five days shows how people would rather play a new version that's updated then go back to FES, Reload trounced the prior versions in sales to an insane extent and probably already sold past 2 maybe 3 million given it’s been 8 months and given there's no real modern way to play FES and people don't exactly like setting up emulation their always gonna head to reload. And now with episode Aigis it now has everything FES had and even more with the link episodes, better vocal direction and consistency in voices, voiced social links, better fusion, compendium transfer to episode Aigis, and night time activities are expanded, more Strega, and plenty more. other then FEMC in portable, which she adds a completely different experience. This is coming from a FES fan who loves the original game a lot and actually played it growing up but I can be realistic and realize that this is the game 99% of people would enjoy regardless of the critiques and issues it has with us older fans. Plus it kinda just shows that Atlus has moved on from their older fans and their precedent ever since p4 onwards these games haven't been challenging nor having some features that they used to implement so i think its just time to move on from those grievances since those are not their focus anymore and talking about them is doing nothing as its like screaming into a void, and as there are 98% more people to appeal to instead of us small vocal parts.
While I agree with basically everything you said I dont necessarily think the lack of difficulty is something they are avoiding.
The thing is original p3 and p4 came out over a decade ago, when consoles were different and the teams were less well funded and SMT was the more popular of the 2 franchises.
Back then it made more sense for them to make the games SMT but with p3 they also wanted to give it a unique identity with social links. However said gameplay was buggy, and imbalanced in vanilla, only slightly better in FES and while many difficulty fans praise it, imo most of FES's difficulty stems from accidental lack of foresight than it did actual challenge.
P4 and then P4G continued to refine the persona formula into it's own identity before P5 which took the longest time to develp came out. P5 was the easiest persona albi they put a lack luster merciless in both it and Royal which wasnt well thought out.
And then with Royal there were sooooo many new features that it became even easier.
Ultimately to me this isn't them making it easier on purpose but having a hard time knowing where to draw the line between what the player can do and how difficult the fights are. I think Heartless difficulty is proof they are thinking about difficulty and trying to meet those expectations slowly.
I dont think Atlus is moving away from older fans but rather they are trying to meet their expectations but in my opinion fans who have been a part of online discourse involving persona are a lost cause.
i don't like fes cuz of the combat, it's horrendous at least to me.
@@Hymn_ you not alone in that sentiment, in fact your in the majority
I know Soejima was working on Metaphor and Doi on SMTV Vengeance during this time but I feel like the art direction would’ve been so much better if either one had a major role in development.
Can't spell 'toxic' without 'Persona fan' lol
Bubbletea I may not agree with all your points but i love your videos and the effort you put on them; not to mention how honest and transparent you are. I wait with great anticipation what you got cooking for Refantazio
As someone who really enjoyed The Answer DLC for Reload, I think that it is really stupid to defend it with lies and misinformation. I think it just doesn't help us have an actual conversation of what makes the game good to some people and flawed to some people. Just be happy with what version that you like, and let people have other people's opinions coexist! It's really frustrating to see both sides of the argument start fighting over just something that doesn't really mater all that much in the end! It is just a video game about acceptance and learning to grow, so just be chill people!
(Banger video by the way! You never miss!
Except this video is full of lies too.
18:45 I acutully liked this change as you can save chidori and thus it would be werid for Junpei to mention her
I agree, but at the same time, it IMO, is Junpei trying to relate and understand where Yukari is coming from. Maybe you could get dialogue change if you choose NOT to save Chidori in the run you choose for Episode Aigis.
@@TheJaredPunch yeah that would be good, I wish they did that
Except it was literally a translation error. In Japanese Junpei never EVEN ONCE mentioned her...
I actually was about to type this exact same thing, just finished P3 reload and to my surprise to see chidori coming back if u do junpeis social event
What I gather from all of this is (it's gonna be long, sorry in advance)
People are upset about the characters' demeanor in FES The Answer, deeming it straight up out of character, pleading for Atlus to rework the scenes in an eventual remake
Atlus notices this (for once) and they make changes according to community feedback only for the community to think that.... the new scenes are not in line with what was in FES The Answer, that the original had more impact and that they shouldn't have changed anything?
EXCUSE ME WHAT THE FUCK?
Obviously no offense to you, but it really feels like at this point people will find anything in Reload's offering a good opportunity to complain, and it makes me sad to see it
- Yes, the lack of difficulty in the hardest difficulty IS BAD
- Yes, paying 35$ for a piece of content that should have been available for free is scummy
- Yes, Shadow Makoto's cutscene is really different than the original, but even then, the original was slightly dissonant in its "post cutscene" with the characters going like "OH MY GOD WE DID IT! 🤩" like they hadn't just seen a shadow resembling their closest friend literally decay into a skeleton. That cutscene still lingers in my mind frame-by-frame, so why are the party members completely unaffected by it?
- Yes, the dorm activities ARE kinda goofy and they could have been used to portray different things and better
But just dunking on the game because things people have been complaining about since the dawn of time have been changed feels stupid and indecisive
And, just to say it, I've never complained about how the original portrayed the cast and especially Yukari, I always thought it was misguided hate. I'd want YOU in Yukari's exact position, see if you can think rationally when someone tells you that you can try to revive the person you loved most.
That said, Reload does a different, and mostly valid, take on it and the new VAs do their absolute best in bringing that vision to life and I like it too.
he literally did a video on why p3 the answer was misunderstood so obviously he wasn’t one of those ppl who were blindly hating on it, he’s going to criticize reload for changing character motivations and softening it to appeal to audiences who can’t handle nuanced characters
@@justmundane I never said he was wrong, I'm just saying that I'm baffled by the amount of people that played the original that suddenly prefer it to Reload
@@ElChuggo It's not sudden. There are different people with different perspectives who played og in a different time like me for instance. People adapt and re-evaluate things they've previously experienced and thought were bad. A lot of things Reload fixed are really outdated criticisms by this point.
@@ElChuggoBecause they can only prefer the original once they get the chance to compare it with the remake?
"Change episode Aigis to what I want!"
Atlus: okay here you go!
"Why would you change something we liked? Fuck you Atlus"
That's the entire "controversy"
7:38 Hey wanna know something crazy! Theirs SMT fans that say 5 is too easy for the same thing you're saying for Reload. Soooooo maybe some people dismiss because it's not true to them?
And i do agree with it being easier because this happens in lots of games, not just persona.
When you have a base game with "resources" to help you win and then release an DLC or a new version of the same game (FES,Golden,Royal) without new challenges to balance it, the game ends up easier... sometimes too easy.
I can give you an example of another game, in the first State of Decay game you had to pray for some RNG early on because if you where unlucky, even as an experienced player you'll have a really hard time, after that the game has well balanced challenges with some dificulty spikes, the only game problem was managing morale in the game that could really being a chore sometimes.
BUT on State of Decay 2 they nerfed the morale problem to a well balanced degree and BAM the game became too easy, but HOW???
Here's the thing, the game received so much more resources like new guns, new positive strats, new power moves, new lots of cool things that the very few new challenges they put in the game cant counter balance it, managing the base problems became so much easier that you can be out WAY more often and that means you'll have good weapons, new base builds etc etc WAY faster and easier.
Each new Persona game releases so much more cool things that the enemies cant keep up, so it ends up a balancing team problem to make the game, fun and challeging without it being a drindy chore.
An old RPG that did it just PERFECTLY to me was the first Grandia game, you could beat the game just fine with some well rounded challenges but the secret stuff from the game was STRAIGHT UP HELL ON EARTH.
Dude, there are so many thing I can complain about. But holy fuck how do you completely misunderstand Yukari like that. That girl is supposed to be running on pure emotions. Why is she sitting here have a philosophical debate with everyone?? And why doesn't she wrestle the key from Aigis. What makes Yukari's breakdown in the og so heartbreaking is that she doesn't stop fighting until Metis tells her that the key will only respond to Aigis. She keeps fighting until she literally cannot do anything and it breaks her. And having Mitsuru make a promise feels so unnecessary. It just feels cheap.
They didn't misunderstand her. They understood her better.
the answer is a part of the p3 story that i have always connected to deeply. it was, in FES, very raw grief. it was genuine. yukari in the answer especially felt so real, but the whole story was really genuine in its portrayal of how hard and fracturing it is to lose someone you love. i know a lot of people didn't like it, but everyone i have spoken to who has - like me - lost a loved one to suicide has the same feelings: that it is brutal, it hurts, but it means something. that pain and difficulty spike MEAN something. the fact that they dumbed it down to this extent and made it as soft and easy to digest as they did... just really sucks. BUT, that being said, that there are still people enjoying it just makes me happy. i don't get why persona fans are so uh.... angry, all the time towards each other lol. p3 is a game i love because i feel it is one of the most honest in the story and grief it conveys. it's my favorite game of all time. i have a tattoo of it, for god's sake lmao. seeing people enjoy it in any capacity will always make me happy regardless of my own opinions and feelings - i wish other people could do the same LOL
There still isnt a "definitive version" of Persona 3 (No, FES doesnt count)
BUT, The Answer has very cool
Basically, what im getting at is, every version has its pros and cons
It is definitive, a female protagonist doesn’t count.
@@Gokuvsnaruto22 That was not the point(of his comment)
@@Gokuvsnaruto22literally wasn't my point. 🤡
Truly Persona 3 Reload is a testament to the unrestrained power of The Mild Card.
as a reload glazer who has never played fes, i can confidently say if i see another person dismiss reload critisism as nostalgia blindness i might just persona 3 myself, its insane how defensive people are, watching this video made me think "damn that sucks i wish they didnt change it, still doesnt change the fact that i had fun with the game", because its how i feel, its really not that hard to accept criticism and still love the thing being criticized, as well as being able to criticize it yourself, because yeah the sees fighting arc, despite leading to the funniest and most interesting gameplay fights in the series, was extremely confusing (although its not only reloads fault bc like poor team robots and team kenhiko would have to fight 3 teams to get the master key while team yutsuru only has to fight one?), but i will also say you saying there are only 2 positive things about the dlc feels needlessly harsh, and also no mention of the music which i found to be pretty great, especially the two new tracks
I can't believe I spent $24 for Episode Aigis just to dungeon crawl another Tartarus until the last 1-2 hours.
The way they adapted Yukari's arc is definitely the worst offense for me. While the ending itself was well done, it doesn't feel as earned due to how watered-down Yukari's arc is. She doesn't even feel like the same character, and I liked her a lot in base Reload.
cope
@@ye9945 Thanks for the well thought-out, constructive rebuttal.
Blame the this sorry ass fan base who have shitty media literacy. They moaned and bitched about Yukari in the base game and the Asnwer. All Atlus did was respond to those complaints now y’all are still mad lmao
cuz different characterization? yukari in fes can get pretty hostile, unlike reload yukari
I still prefer the Sassy/bitchy Yukari, she's more interesting to me
Reading the reactions to this video just shows me that Persona fans are like allergic to nuance or something. Which is ironic, considering that's like literally the theme of the entire series. Everything has to be sooooo black-and-white to everyone. Like, guys, you can dislike changes to a remake without being nostalgia-blind. You can also dislike things about a product you like, and like things about a product you dislike. You can also like FES, Portable, AND Reload for different reasons. You can also like any combination of the three for any reason. Bubbletea is I guess known online as like Reload's No. 1 hater, but like, his criticisms are honestly fair, and he's not even the most-negative person I've seen talk about the game before. But because he makes it no secret that he likes P3FES, and he has some criticisms about Reload, he's a nostalgia-blind rage-baiter apparently.
Now there is no faith in persona 1 remake, it's joever
I can fully assure you Bubbletea does not HATE Reload, and is far from the most negative person on the internet about it.
@@BigKlingy Oh, trust me. *I* know that. But it seems like nobody else does.
Is it worth buying Episode Aigis? (I'm still a student)
@@Navue-cn2tx I have yet to play it, so I cannot speak to that for you. I would recommend watching a few other videos on the topic to find out if it's worth it for you.
It's probably an unpopular opinion for the persona crowd, but i feel like if im putting in the time to learn the game, then the game should feel easier. I also played it on Heartless, being a long-time persona fan, and enjoyed the pacing of the difficulty. You can't tell me the game is easy meawhile You have the most textbook, "i know how to actually utilize fusion" physical demon.
I know its the fact that you like many others have been longtime fans and know how to play the game, but trust me when i say use longtime fans arent who they are trying winover since we will most likely get it anyway even if we complain. They are trying to get new fans, which makes sense. Older Persona fans are basically the old man yelling in the room, trying to be relevant, and with how Atlus has been getting W after W, id say they continue to make games for a new audience rather than listen some old fan rabbid over analytical fan (unless its something bad like the complete editions which atlus already stated they are going to stop doing).
Not sure win after win considering what happened with Devil Summoner 2 and their MTX practices, censorship. Fans that gloss over the wrong that Atlus does say this, impartial fans call them out for the crap they do wrong and when they do right. Trying to get new fans of a newer generation, is entirely different from prior given lower attention span and inability to play anything of a slower pace/turn-based. They will gain some, but remakes were never meant to gain new fans beyond a face-lift because what worked in the past should work again, or it wouldn't get a remake. Now they are becoming revisions to appeal to a generation that requires the game industry overall to dumb down. On top of that, we have politics influencing things not just in the West, but Japan, too and far more aggressive than anything in the past.
So many old developers are leaving the mainstream industry along with older gamers because what we have now is corporate over creativity. Who are left don't have much experience or stuck in trends. Not sure I consider that a good thing if good games are rare.
You're one of the only merciless players that think like this, I'm a normal player, and that's fine, i simply like to destroy the shadows, the game don't need to be hard to be good, i don't see any reasons to play on merciless
@@rdr1g457 I don't disagree with him on the difficulty, it's true. People come back to the game or start of on the hardest mode possible. If they feel it's too easy, it defeats the purpose and challenge of a game setup for strategy. Why else do you think it's turn-based and you're given options instead of hack n slash? Many mods you find for JRPGs focus on increasing difficulty or adding more challenge to it by tweaking enemies. Yes, you are a casual player that plays for the story, but those that play for both exist.
My only complaint with your argument is that yes these people know how to use the tools so they’ll have an easier time, but that still doesn’t mean that because you know how to play the game it gets completely brainless in it’s difficulty. If the game has all these systems and if you only figure one out not master but just get a grip of one. Not even mentioning the every other method, the game gets ridiculously more easy that’s not a vet player coming in with too high expectations or knowledge that’s bad game design
@@TheDracolordian always make sense to feel stronger in a game when you are nearing the end. I'd say the bosses of the answer were tough like the arena, on heartless that is.
18:46 Chidori was never mentioned in FES Episode Aigis. This was a mistranslation created by the localizers.
I already made my peace with Persona 3 Reload the Answer, I think both it and FES has their strengths and weaknesses. That’s all there is to it.
It is weird nowdays they want to sell you a version of the game partially distinct but at the same time like the original not a flat out 1: 1 because honestly anybody would say "just emulate it" or "you are paying 70$ for something you can emulate" so now they have to put extra stuff and being different and oh boy the answer to that might surprise you. (in case it missed the point is: fans wanting the 1:1in HD)
I find Episode Aigis to be kind of a mixed bag compared to the Answer. Some of the dialogue changes I prefered. Some I don't like. Yukari literally being like "I saying I'm objectively correct or anything" feels like shes too self-aware for example and Junpeis dialogue honestly just got fucked. He seemed quite mature in the FES version which I liked as it showed his character development but then in Reload he sounds way more more uncertain and his position makes way less sense.
Yukari never thought she was objectively correct even in FES. in fact, she doesn't CARE whether or not she is.
@@Benjawin6671 I mean sure, but saying that out loud feels clunky and weird.
As someone who didn’t play the original, I enjoyed the Answer a lot I like how everyone was feeling since the MC died and it makes sense to how they feel at least to me
I think Episode Aigis is the embodiment of what is wrong with remakes nowadays. Overpriced, and barely any changes not only to warrant an increase in price, but also a reason to even remake it in the first place when the original was just fine. To get the full P3R experience you have to pay over $100 bucks for it. That is just not right. Super unfortunate.
@@gravyjones7043 My problem with Reload is that the things that are changed or replaced about P3 are switched for something incredibly dumbed down and boring in comparison and with FES not being more accessible this is what most people are stuck with.
It's more accessible sure but it's as plain as a saltine cracker like dude, it's a video game. Let there be crazy wacky stuff that adds to the experience like P5 which people seem to compare it too even though I think it's way more interesting.
The entire package of the game lost the ingredients however frustrating made it unique and special in comparison to the other Persona titles in the first place. The developers leaned WAAY too far into listening to people complain instead of inputting their own voice, like they were in a corner getting beaten with a bat or something.
The originals vision had the exact opposite design mentality which was "Cool, whatever you say but these mechanics represents this games themes and we have no regrets."
Both versions of P3 are good games don't get me wrong but it's that very reason why FES around from my most disliked and boring Persona game to a game I see now as one of my favorite games of all time.
It's over $100 to OWN the game, but to get the full experience you can just pay $15 & play it all on Game Pass.
@@corey2232 not a bad point but that doesn’t change any of the criticisms towards the actual final product. Also I would also argue the majority of players are PC/PS4/PS5 and don’t have access to Game Pass.
@@gravyjones7043there is a game pass available on PC. Playstation fans will stay losing on that front
@@corey2232 100$ to OWN if you buy physical, you dont own anything digital.
I made a comment about how the Dorm activities, etc. involving party members and the MC on its own recontextualized The Answer well. After having experienced them, it was a much easier pill to swallow that the team would be so distraught over it and at odds with each other.
And then I said this: hopefully they won't change it too much because the context is there now. You can claim it's realistic all you want, but the goal of a narrative is to sell its choices independent of realism - believability and realism are two different things. Reality is random, a narrative is deliberate. OG FES did not sell the direction of The Answer. Reload did.
Sounds like that's not what happened however. Instead of allowing the base game to contextualize the direction of the original Episode Aigis, they did not trust in the base game changes enough to not heavily mess with the narrative. It's a shame if so. I have yet to play it in part due to the ridiculous price, but if true it will be a huge let down. Part of the point of the new scenes in Reload will have been basically ignored as if they never happened. And one of the biggest Reload issues will have hit critical mass: the hand holding. It was forgivable in Reload, now I'll hopefully see if it's forgivable in EA.
Who understand gamers??
Game studio brings an old classic to new hardware, new possibilities, same story -> YEAH!!!!
Game studio didn't bring originally the DLC -> everyone aks: WHY???
Game studio hears their players and bring the DLC again but modernized -> IS BAAAAD!!!
Granted, the original DLC was bad, but brings a closure to the story.
In the end, you can't make everyone happy.
or they could have just...ya know...released a full and definitive edition of the title itself. As it stands there's STILL no complete version of this game that exists on this planet and never will now. -_-
I really want to play FES now to see how different because I knew something felt off about episode Aigis. Character conflicts just felt sort of… flat. The parts in the journey (reload) that were meant to be emotional were, chidori’s death, shinji’s death, Makoto’s death, they all hit. The only part that hit for me was the battles against the party members, and that’s mostly because of heartful cry and the noises they made when you killed them. I’m really curious to see how different it is now in FES
Yukari being so boneless feels like the 2017 Beauty and the Beast remake where Disney tried to address Buzzfeed level criticism (why isn't the brush talking ??11?1!!) but instead of Buzzfeed Atlus catered towards misogynist 2008 gaming forum lurkers
I loved P3 FES, I will never tire of saying that this game saved my life, and it really hurt me that they toned down so many things, even so, I feel that the remake is fine.
_I would recommend to everyone that they should play P3 FES and Reload equally, it's like an extended movie, both present the same thing, just in different perspectives. And one relies on the other to express and reiterate the story and its message, you can see it in a direct and raw way (P3 FES) or in an idealized and apparent way (P3 Reload)._
Hopefully in a few years they will release a P3 Reload+ version like in Royal, where they remake many of the cutscenes, which I feel is what showed the most how soft they made the game so as not to scare the casual or new player.
I’ve been saying this ever since P3:R was announced. A lot of the edges got sanded off. Both mechanically and story wise. A lot of what made P3 unique got lost in the remake.
All three versions of P3 have their own strengths and weaknesses and I hope one day these really fanatical fans chill out appreciate how great all three iterations are.
If there's anything that I hate in this remake as a whole, its the fact that they toned it WAY down. Persona 5 covered a lot of heavy topics and sold the most copies (I guess they are thinking they could sell even more, if they make it more PG), even Metaphor game is not toned down like Persona 3 Reload is. I'm just disappointed tbh. I suspected they will tone down the edgy, but not to the "generic anime" extent. Also disappointed they made everyone instant friends, one thing I liked about the original was the fact that they were just roomates and werent necessarily stroking the player's ego.
Also, its laughable who introduces gardening to you.
P5 didn't sell out.
@@Luna-pk7gz *sold the most copies
I don't see how they toned anything down....like it's still pretty dark really. I don't see how everryone is instant friends I mean by Episode Aegis they should clearly be friends really.
P5 was the embodiment of telling instead of showing, they just told you a bunch of edgy things without actually showing anything. But then P5R third semester improved on it a little bit by letting you experience marukis ideal world. The OG P3 shows you how apathy syndrome is affecting people as more people start to look like zombies around the map, and more people talk about it. And then when nyx is arriving the music changes and all the npcs have disappeared leaving the town run down and desolate
@@Jdudec367 They toned down the edginess. You havent been paying attention to the base game much or you havent played the original, if you think the game hasnt been toned down in various ways. Its ways too obvious. Even this very video shows you how much they toned down the DLC, such as censoring the way MC looking figure disappears and the cast being way less tense as to not hurt the player's "feelings".
actual criticism or nostalgia bias, call it
Actual criticism with a bit of nostalgia bias, there's a balance to these things you got to consider.
as someone who can’t really claim a huge nostalgia bias bc I only played FES 3 years ago, I generally do like what the original title does more-but I don’t hate reload or anything.
There's always a nostalgia bias with these "FES IS BETTER" people. They can't help themselves.
@@gcDaydays That's such an idiotic response. By the same logic one could say that the people that think that Reload is better just have recency bias. Good job on making discussion pointless.
@@raffzz453 What discussion are we having here? The commentator asked a binary question.
Atlus really just concentrated all the difficulty juice into the joker boss
I loved Reload, but at the same time it feels like a lot of the changes were added not to improve on it while still capturing the essence of the game, but rather to make it more palatable to a mainstream audience. And, while I welcome those changes, seeing some of these interviews and seeing what they did with Episode Aigis feels insulting. Not because I want to play Literally The Same Game, but because they downplayed the literal point of the Episode Aigis plot only to avoid controversy. And that just makes me feel like they didn't care about preserving what Persona 3 is, or even about respecting the fans' intelligence. Sure, the original Episode Aigis wasn't perfect, but it still trusted the player to understand what it was going for. I don't know, I just have a hard time reconciling how much I enjoy this game with the fact that it's very noticeable that they prioritized downplaying a lot of it to sell more or something, regardless of the impact that had artistically.
Modern audiences suck. There is no way around it.
I didn’t have very high hopes for how the game itself was going to be handled tbh. Most of my criticism goes towards the gameplay. While I did enjoy the combat I had to purposefully restrict myself in order to keep it balanced even on heartless.
Megaten in general has some of the most fun turn based combat I have experienced and yet its far too easy, if you use the mechanics the game gives you it becomes trivial which is not how it should work. The difficulty options are there for a reason but god dang if there is a difficulty called heartless I am picking that under the assumption I am going to be massively challenged and yet Atlus seem scared of making the player struggle.
There were definitely issues with FES Answer but in general with the originals most of the complaints about difficulty stemmed from peoples inability to even attempt to engage with tactics. I think the game should have the guts to punish you for being a lazy player but still reward smart tactics rather than just pander to them and offer easy solutions like Theurgies. It just upsets me knowing the potential some of the games could have and yet I don’t think we’re ever going to see it.
ur fast
@@tuviaso and no spelling mistakes unlike SOMEONE :clueless:
@@Eudaimonia7564I was wondering how they were going to handle some of the bits people complained about in the original. I think I went in a bit too pessimistic tbh I didn’t feel like the story did much for me, granted I already played the original but I was just going through the motions
@@Ziroikabi the moment l7 became hulkendurg
@@Ziroikabi That's me with Persona 3 Reload in general tbh. When it first got announced I thought they were gonna go all in Full on Persona 5 mode introduce so many cool mechanics, new hangout locations with S.E.E.S less go! S.E.E.S Den with tha homies? BET! Then it came, I played it, and I was just like oh... it's Persona 3...but shiny... and boring now... *_sigghhh_*
So I think you confused two different things. The script for FES in English vs Japanese DOES have differences in terms of Yukari's tone. Even in the example you gave.
Yukari (JP) - "Isn't that just a nice way of saying things? If you had something that precious, what you'd really want is to save them. Wouldn't you want to re-do the past!? To pass up this kind of chance, are you serious about that Senpai?!"
Yukari (EN) - "Oh yeah, you're really one to be throwing around those high-minded ideals! If you really thought something was that precious to you, you'd want to protect it no matter what. Don't you understand!? We can go back and fix things! Are you seriously going to let this chance go!?"
Compare the difference in translation to the Reload script.
Yukari (Reload JP) - "I didn't say anything like that! Because, we can re-do the past! What exactly is wrong with that!?"
Yukari (Reload EN) - "That's not what I said! We can actually change the past! What's wrong with wanting that!?"
I don't know what you asked your friend to compare, but you're 100% off base. FES JP Yukari is desperate and a little resentful. FES EN Yukari comes across as straight up bitchy. If you play FES with JP dub you can tell how far off base FES Yukari is. It's the same with Junpei. The Reload EN script is way more accurate to the JP script and it's not even close.
Also going off your other "translations", you're 100% machine translating. Please stop posing as someone who knows about localization.
Another thing to factor in was when the original English dub was recorded and conditions vs. now.
Remember, back then, they didn't have a lot of time to translate these games.
Seeing Yukari just casually drop the idea that "Oh... So I can just steal the keys and use them for myself huh?" Was honestly kind of terrifying. It's such a cool detail that nobody seems to care about for whatever reason.
Even though I only played the Answer in Reload, the obvious changes to Yukari didn't feel right. And they mostly didn't feel right because this is Persona. The characters explicitly draw their strength from their convictions. Yukari, being the one who decided to just fight through the Irreconcilable Difference and the one whose battle is the last, was absolutely the wrong character to try and tone down. And while I don't necessarily take issue with her breaking down upon realizing she'd lost rather than trying in vain even more, I absolutely do not agree that any of the "no hard feelings" lines had any business being placed before her battle.
P3R cutscenes have the art direction of weekly shounen anime episodes, but with the technical quality of a movie.
P3F cutscenes have the art direction of a movie, but with the technical quality of a weekly shounen anime episode.
Also, I'm so annoyed that they screwed up the Metis cutscene. That was my favorite one, like cmon!
I disagree, the Episode Aigis cutscenes especially have some really bad animation. I don't watch much Anime, but it is in no way "movie tier"
Agreed about FES' direction
@@ChiangKai-Shrek lol wtf
@@Benjawin6671 You can't tell me I'm wrong. Just watch the cutscene where the MC's shadow disappears. P3R has a weird pan which just looks stupid
@@ChiangKai-ShrekYeah the fight between Aigis and Akihiko looked pretty bad. It was filmed like a Christopher Nolan fight scene.
While I personally like Reload, I do find myself deeply disappointed with a number of parts in how it was handled. And I feel like the Answer is just more compounding parts of what made me disappointed with Reload. The animations and how they handled the SEES conflict really being what hurts my view of Reload Answer, as I felt that the grief, anger, and trauma of the original conflict helped carry the story the Answer was trying to tell.
16:05 Herlock Sholmes's dog?
At least it’s still very enjoyable for those who haven’t played the Answer in FES before. It’s sad they had to censor so much though to avoid Yukari hate and to keep it all ages. Yukari was perfectly reasonable with the key grabbing and that gave the original even more impact since she represents a stage of grief like the rest.
I agree with nearly every point of your video, But I have to disagree with your take on the difficulty.
just because you played on the hardest difficulty and didn't have a good time does not mean it did not accomplish its goals. It is statistically harder and purposefully doing its job as the hardest difficulty. You are just better than it's difficulty because you are experienced with how the games mechanics. If that's the case, pick up a harder game that'll hit your difficulty itch. Don't knock points off of something that's doing its job.
@@Emmetlovesredvelvet13 There are plenty of games out there that uphold there difficulty no matter how good you are and how long the game goes on for.
Not sure what "good" of a job it's doing at upholding a harder challenge when it's literally throwing every possible thing at you to break the game. You can't even avoid the ambush upgrades like you could in the original, you open up a chest and now the shadows are cooked.
Theurgies are obvious how you can break the game but the fact that you can just go upstairs to get your Sp back, combine this with Fuuka who has jamming and escape route, stack a major arcana (which is easy as frick to do) and watch yourself get showered in exp, there is no threat whatsoever. How in the world is it doing it's job?
Wait because someone "Knows the game more" it cant fail on how hard it is because Statistically it is harder.
Just because you understand something doesn't mean that makes it easy or hard, its up to the game on if it can do its own difficulty right and sadly it was done poorly.
Aren't harder difficulties specifically for people who have more knowledge? you could have a difficulty that gives enemies 50 extra health and technically that's "harder", but it wouldn't really harder to the person who just played normal. There's also the secondary point that shouldn't remakes also be made for returning players? No one starting out is playing merciless, so why not try to tune it for people who mastered p3 fes?
but even if I agreed for the base game that having too much knowledge can trivialize any difficulty, this is post game DLC, so shouldn't the people who played the base game on the hardest difficulty be challenged even though they are "experienced with the mechanics"?
Difficulty is pretty subjective, so it think it's still a thing you can knock off points for.
That and people need to accept that it's okay to lower difficulties if they can give you a more balanced expereince.
I honestly don't think there is anything wrong with lowering the difficulty to Normal if Hard or Nightmare are ruining your experience.
i am good at rpgs, i played p3r on "hard" and died once throughout the whole game, it was not hard, i played yakuza like a dragon on hard, i died 5 times in the first 4 chapters of the game, it was hard, do you see the difference between those 2 difficultys? which one do you think is the right one?
Watch being crapped on by people who read the title only and got ENRAGED that you criticized P3 Reload.
So many people seem to panic and get upset when persona gets fair critique
No, you just want Reload to be exactly like SMT. That is the exact opposite of a fair critique. This isn't even that franchise. Get over yourself, you petulant child.
Not every point is a fair critique in the video.
Like Yukari's tone of voice in the English VA...it's not "toned down" from the original, the OG with Michelle Ruff was the one that was over done and the new English VA tried to match the Japanese.
Also the difficulty aspect...it's okay to lower the difficulty if the higher ones are ruining your experience...I personally enjoy playing on normal and don't see a reason to play on harder difficulties and been having a great time.
old good new bad is not fair lmao
@@ye9945 Pretty much this...I played the original and I loved it for what it was and I love how the new one is faithful to it while improving upon it. Sure, it's not perfect by any means, but it's no where near as "garbage" as people try to make oyu believe with their biases.
I never said all of this video was fair critique @@Miyakolover
I think somehow the Persona 3 Reload incident at SEA countries contributed to the high price of Episode Aigis
22:44 i dislike this interpretation of Yukari's jealousy ngl, makes it sound like a corny love-tringle plot (not that there isn't one between them, but its mostly played for laughs)
Yukari's problems goes way deeper then that. She would still be jealous if Junpei got the wild card.
Yukari discussion aside, great video, I agree with most of your points and I consider episode Aigis a massive disappointment.
I like to think Yukari WAS jealous of Aigis, but in the sense that Aigis having Orpheus is a huge slap in the face for her. She loved Makoto just as much as Aigis did (regardless of if that's romantic or platonic), and yet she gets to have something of his? She gets to have this reminder of their connection, of his existence, while Yukari gets nothing except for pain and suffering. I think that was (part of) her mindset. Not that it matters that much, it's just some nuance to a greater character arc.
I did enjoy your stream of episode aigis from a few weeks ago, you should continue that!
never expected episode aigis dislike
3:13 maybe this is the just the consequences of never playing the original or FES, in a game that focuses more on the Personas, switching up weapons doesn’t make that much of a difference IMO.
Especially since you already have a character that can use more than one Persona. If anything, this is more balanced for team compositions to make you want to rely on the other party members for weapon damage (assuming you’re lucky enough to fight a shadow with a physical weakness).
I’m glad that the concept of switching up Overworld weapons is revisited in Metaphor Refantazio. But it works better for that game IMO, because it encourages switching up and using different Archetypes which are tied to the weapon types. Something with again, separates Archetypes from the Personas.
4:26 I mean, is it that big of a deal. Besides, you have an even harder difficulty in Reload here. Let the players have a choice to enjoy the games at different levels.
7:04 if their is any major grips I had with Persona 3 Reload the Answer is that Shadow Major doesn’t use Theurgy, granted it would be impossible to do with Makoto’s design but still…
11:25 There was no full voice dialogue for any of them. This makes me very sad.
13:39 I definitely agree with this though, and I think it might have to do with the preparations for Metaphor Refantazio (Atlus’s biggest project thus far).
15:20 I already said this before, but this is the only cutscene I didn’t mind simply because we got to see SEES’s reactions, something we didn’t get in FES.
18:20 When does Atlus trust their fanbase for ANYTHING!? I’d more surprised if they did. Sadly, there are too many illiterate people out there that even the most basic of 🤬 won’t get the point across. People are just that ignorant. It saddens me to say this, but it’s true.
21:12 I thought Akihiko’s added line in this game was ACTUALLY really good.
22:05 to be fair, I think that’s something Yukari needed to here. Yukari could have talked to ANYONE about her problems. Not just Mitsuru. Makoto’s death was EVERYONE’s grief, the Abyss of Time is because of EVERYONE’s grief. The Shadow Makoto fight was, again, the result of EVERYONE’S GRIEF!
As far as I’m concerned, as much as I understand where you’re coming from, this change didn’t have to be a bad thing. And as someone who also wished that Yukari’s desperation attempt to take back the key was kept in Reload, I think this dialogue should help Yukari understand that EVERYONE shares in what Yukari is feeling in their own way and she could have relied on anyone to help her cope (be it Mitsuru or any of her other friends). Remember! Yukari was closer to Fuuka than she was to Mitsuru prior to November.
22:15 I don’t agree with this at all. You have to keep in mind that Reload was made with the Platonic routes in mind. Regardless of if Yukari, Aigis, Mitsuru or Fuuka were in a relationship with Makoto or not, I don’t think it changes anything. It certainly doesn’t help that you are forced to date everyone on a Max Social Links run of FES. So I really don’t think this matters as much as you claim IMO.
The marsh jumpscare 😭
To be fair, I can't blame Atlus for not trusting the playerbase to "get it" considering it's been, like, 16 years and people still don't get
Mfs are going to complain about nostalgia bias when I only got into persona when they were ported to the switch and I prefer the og
They did not ruin it. It is still amazing.
Omfg why is there always something wrong with everything
I hate it here
nostalgic attachment is going to be the death of remakes
I hate how they defanged Yukari in the remake of the answer. With how much I dislike the answer’s gameplay this was my last hope but atlus couldn’t stay true to fes even in this, arguably most important and best scene
Well she was already neutered in the base campaign in Reload.
@ZX-Gear
Nah, just restored to accuracy.
@@ZX-Gear what you call neutered is actually keeping her true to the original Japanese script, they changed Yukari's personality a lot in the original English translation and made her way more sassy than she actually was
@jimmythegamer2231 Honestly makes one wonder how shit localization was even then. No wonder people prefer machines to translate.
@@ZX-Gear I am sorry while one can talk about how questionable localization can be if anyone actually prefers MTL that just means they are a special kind of touched in the head lol.
The last bit about the contentiousness of Episode Aigis and Answer in general is precisely the point of the whole DLC. The characters, much like the fanbase are conflicted, confused, and overall contending with the actions and proceedings that Makoto did. Is this not too dissimilar to how the persona fanbase reacts to the presentation of the original game and its remakes? Is it not?
The fanbase should follow in the footsteps of the characters in The Answer. That being to move on from the past and to pursue future harmony. Games, much like people that have passed, stay as they were in fixed time. The only thing that has changed is the thought about them.
I disagree, I liked it :]
And I think Heather Gonzalez as Yukari did absolutely amazing, especially in her emotional scenes 😊
If I were a youtuber who constantly bitches about how easy games are, I wouldn't show off my min-maxed personas in the b-roll footage.
Auto? Concentrate?
Do they think we're toddlers?
I'm just f*cking exhausted
Are Persona fans these toxic? I liked this series when I was a kid
@@Navue-cn2tx someone on (unfortunately) Bluesky told bubbletea to "pull a Ronnie McNutt on [himself]" over this video, on top of claiming his "garbage channel is slowly dying"
that user also accused him of complaining about Joker being an optional secret boss… which he didn't, so…
@@ArshadZahid_nohandleideas Mood.
Yeah, I've completely blocked all contact with the Persona community outside of a few UA-cam channels because it's genuinely so draining to even see this fanbase discuss anything, let alone join the arguement. It's like they have a serious mental degeneration that makes them entirely incapable of processing subjectivity, opinions and nuance, add to that a lot of them being misogynistic, every other ist and phobic incels and it's just fucking unbelievable that these people have any semblance of respect for themselves and want to be taken seriously. The good, level headed Persona fans that just like talking about the games and shooting the shit are so overshadowed by these people that I'm genuinely beginning to question if it's even a "vocal minority" anymore.
@@ArshadZahid_nohandleideas for real?
For me, Theurgies aren't too strong, generally at least. It's that so often enemies of the optional variety have such huge health bars while forcing to to spend most of your actions buffing, healing, and debuffing, so the low damage of normal attacks becomes negligible. As for story bosses, well they ironically have the opposite problem of having way too little health. And strangely less actions per turn than the final story bosses in the main game to their name. Amada two tapped my Aigis on Heartless because I accidentally had a Persona equipped weak to Light. Shadow MC didn't even get close to that scenario.
Reload is really impressive because it's made me somehow miss parts of FES that i didn't even fw that much. I dunno, like I didn't even like the original Episode Aigis a lot - it wasn't bad but it was shallow and Reload just manages to make its weaknesses more apparent, somehow.
It's good to know that the localization arguments were indeed a bunch of bullshit though. Who could've seen that coming...
I'm playing FES modded and the only thing that would make the game perfect at this point is a stable 60fps patch.
I think while visually interesting, og answer's scene was completely out of the blue and nothing like everything else in the game, like it doesn't really fit. I actually completely forgot this scene until the discourse started.
I haven't finished episode Aigis yet, but man am I having so much more fun than in the original (yeah, yeah git gud - tactics are fun blah blah, sure), I don't think the fact that the game is easier make it worse, fans will always find broken shit to make game a cakewalk, Atlus wanted to make game fun first and foremost and I think they succeeded in that.
Finally a person that can think properly, i can understand the script thing, but I'll never understand what some persona fans have with difficulty, like, why does it need to be hard to be fun? My broken Siegfried goes brrrrr
@@rdr1g457 I don't think the point is that Persona can only be fun by being hard. Different players want different experiences, whis is totally fine! But the game has a hard mode and a merciless mode and none of those are hard in the slightest, and that's the point. If a game adds a difficulty level above hard, I'm expecting that mode to be challenging. It should reward me for understanding and mastering the combat system. But I played the game in merciless mode, and theurgies allowed me to completely cheese most battles, which is not good for a difficulty level that is supposed to be hard. The point isn't about Persona needing to be fun, but about hard modes needing to be, at least, harder than mindlessly spamming theurgies.
@@funyarinpa9464 Well, the only solutions for that are limiting yourself by not using some items or mechanics, or download some mod that make the game harder
@@rdr1g457Well that just sounds like bad game design having players deliverately ignore gameplay mechanics or having to install mods so you aren't completely steamrolling the game (on the hardest difficulty).
@@ew275x I can't say that is a lie, but it is what it is, we can only hope that Atlus balance more the games in the future, i don't know in SMT, because i never played it, but the difficulty in the recent persona games is almost always pretty broken, which i don't see as a problem, but a lot of people do, and i think the main reason that original P3 was harder than reload is the fact that you couldn't control your party members, and some other mechanics like the tired members stuff
Reload really sanitized the Original's psychological intent
A remake of the answer was the prime oportunity to fix what people didn't like (The tartarus 2.0 and grinding) and keep or expand what people liked (the story)
But Atlus did the exact opposite, they changed a lot from the story for worse and kept the Tartarus 2.0 and the grindy stuff
Personally I don't mind the gameplay stuff but I've seen a lot of newcomers that get bored of doing 3 hours dungeon crawling just for 5 minutes of plot
To be fair its not just newbies that was true for the original your always gonna get bored of dungeon crawling and barely any plot. Like most people stopped playing and watched on youtube at that point.
sr bañera, si no le importe responderme, usted que es un amante de la yucatán, ¿qué le pareció como trataron a su personaje en esta versión?
Love your videos content and point of views thanks for this 😂 at work watching and listening
The atmosphere was never going to be the same from the start when they added Wind Waker HD style bloom over everything along with all the changes that have already been talked about ad nauseum.