Andy, it always occurs to me: with all the valuable information you've provided to your viewers, and with all the advice from 17,000 subscribers intent on helping you achieve the the best solution for your garage, that battery 2.0 can truly be called "The Community Battery". Thanks for sharing the journey with us!
I've been having more consistent result soldering my voltage sensing wore to the busbars. Kept having conflicting readings with traditional crimp connections. I like the idea of fusing them but I wonder how it will change the resistance. Bigger fuses seem to have difference in where they blow, they're not exactly the same. Just in what I've learned and just my opinion too. Keep killing it Andy. Happy to see all the progress!
Fuses won't change anything. Keep in mind the wires are tiny as it is. You can only properly ascertain battery voltage if very little current is running through the wires. This is why the higher amperage balancers only sense when current isn't flowing. The wire is afterall, a fuse --- just a really dangerous one.
Andy, you may want to do a test to insure the Bluetooth signal from the BMS can communicate from inside the aluminum walled shelf. Better to know now if you need to mount the BMS on an external wall for the sake of that signal.
Nah, I have had this question for a long time with the electric cabinet. I can still receive the BT signal at my pool, 20m away even if the metal cabinet is closed. The metal frame does almost nothing to the signal.
Sorry for not warning you about the use of these harder plastics, clamping, slow and steady is always good practice. not sure about lubricant made from petroleum based products though, might stain the plastic, there is a product that you can put on to join it, might help make the cracks disappear might be acetone but not sure.
My suggestion for the clamps: Use four-pole wago spring-loaded terminals. Only one line from the bus bar, no ferrules necessary and three possible connections. As fuses I would take automotive flat fuses. There are "flying" fuse holders with insulation displacement connectors aviliable for these. No soldering, crimping and heatshrink hassle if a fuse blows, just swap it.
@@OffGridGarageAustralia That's what the "flying" fuse holders are for, just cut the wire 2-3 cm after the cable lug connecting to the busbar and snap on the fuse holder. Because they are fused now you could use bigger wires, 0,75..1,5mm², reduces resistance and eases handling. Voltage rating: Most likely scenario to blow such a fuse is connecting some neighboring BMS wires the wrong way, will result in 3.6V - 10.8V across the fuse... Otherwise I am very sure they will blow nicely at 50V, especially the "little" ones with 5A.
Hi Andy. In my view the best place for the fuses should be at this new terminal sides instead of bus bars in between cells. That's for a few reasons: Can be tested quickly as they close to each others. Can be replaced easily if you use a mounting rack like the car fuse holder... Away from the battery terminals means you never have to go and play around over there where space will be limited and margin of error is too small while fixing, so is not safe play around there...
The fuses need to be as close as possible to the terminals to protect the cables behind them going to the BMS. Car fuse holders are only approved to 12V/24V... It's not about convenience unfortunately...🤷♂️
Yes, super easy to cut and work with this material if you know how. Watch the video in the description. They even use table sames and mitre saws to cut it...
Also, consider sourcing an LED that connects to either side of the fuse so that when the fuse is blown, the LED lights. Search for led fuse indicator. Given the voltage of the batteries, nothing fancy should be needed, just an LED connected to either side of it. Another option is to place LEDs at your wiring block that bridge between each cell and go out if the fuse is blown. I prefer the blown fuse illumination over the fuse good illumination. Part of my "don't bother me if nothing is wrong" philosophy.
About the BMS mounting. If you get a BMS that has busbar mounts only (like JBD) you can build your own cables exactly the length you need. Or can you cut off the ring terminals and splice new cable to get the right length? I know I hate splices too, but done right they are electrically fine and good shrink wrap with internal adhesive makes them very safe.
@@OffGridGarageAustralia No. Mine are just like yours and they did not come with a cover. You can buy some silicone terminal covers for your ring terminals though. Amazon has " Fastronix 3/8" stud terminal covers red and black" for 8.99 US. I don't like these as well as actual terminal covers, but they do offer good protection if done right. As an aside, I was in Australia in 1988. One of the best rips of my life. Best to you and keep up the great content. I learn much and have to think every time I watch. Its all good.
For the BMS B- and P- wires, you can use the same type of DIN-rail gray terminal blocks like you have there for the balancing leads (just for higher diameter wires).
Or DIN-rail terminals with a piece of busbar with studs or holes. These terminals are for connection of 35-150 sq mm (typical) wires. But it sometimes has relatively high price.
Hi Andy! I like your Idea with the additional terminals to connect further equipement. But have a look at something like Wago's "3-Leiter-Durchgangsklemme" (Art.-Nr. 2002-1301) You could then route only one thin cable (perhaps with a 10A Fuse?) down to the Terminals and wire in your BMS and the "additional device" to the Wago Terminals. Just an Idea! Less wires, cleaner look!
Ideally you don't want to put load on the sense leads of your bms with an unrelated device like an active balancer, otherwise the bms will get skewed readings for the cells.
I know the terminals you're referring to. If connecting a BMS and separate balancer for example, you should not use the same balance cables but connect them individually to each terminal of the battery. I know some people are piggybacking their devices onto the same cables, some have even trouble afterwards 😊
Looking really nice. You could use PTCs(resetable fuse resistors) instead of single use fuses for the leads. Probably likely to have a few fuses blow if you are testing balancers. If you are wondering if the wires melt....no. The balancer diodes smoke first. No particular reason I know that. LOL.
I meant if you have a short on one of the balance cables it will melt quickly but still could lead to a fire of its insulation. I'm not expecting to have more than 5A of current going through these balance cables actually. If I go 10A I would need thicker cable already...
I used 14awg between the battery terminals and a connector. The wire is a lot more sturdy than the tiny stuff that comes with the BMS. I fused it for 10 amps, but if need be I'd be comfortable running 20 amps thru the wire, but not sure the connectors are good for that. I can hook up a balance charger (a pair of ISDT-Q8) but so far the cells are staying in balance.
I like the removable BMS idea and just having it lay flat on the acrylic. Also there certainly isnt much point in giving it a window because it will be hard to see anything anyway where it is going to reside. Keep up the awesome work!
@@OffGridGarageAustralia after seeing the video about modifying the BMS with the bigger wires I definitely think it could work provided you have the right soldering iron for such a large cable. Dont forget to count the strands so they are even 😂
I'm using my old lead acid battery box after a very thorough cleaning and the addition of four balancers and home made bussbars what held 12 Kwh lead acid now can hold 28 Kwhr's Lipo with room to spare
Excellent Andy! Have you considered tempered glass panels installed in aluminum frames? I used to build custom industrial switchgear, controls and motor control centers, and on a few applications where it was important to be able to look inside control panels, to monitor indicators functions, I used wire-reinforced shatter-proof glass, with silicone strips and an aluminum backing plate and stand-off bushings. To meet code, you might not even need wire reinforced glass. Lexan and and some poly sheets meet UL 94 V-0 and other flame retardant specs, so they might meet code. There's also 'FR' flame-retardant clear plastics and acrylics.
I considered that for almost a second a while back. I think we're drifting a bit away from building a battery here in the first place. The window would be a nice feature/gimmick but I don't want to get a builder licence first to finalise it. I need to read the current regulations again and see what is allowed.
@@OffGridGarageAustralia I tend to agree, unless audience interest justifies it, it seems a waste of resources. It's such a nice bit of work It's almost a shame to hide it away, but perhaps an easy to open hinged door is good enough when you need a peek for the camera. Internal work lighting might a nice feature work and video.
#Off-grid garage Andy I really love your German perfection style and your humor. Keep it up! I also really like the information you give me so I learn more and be inspired building diy off grid. I just want to give my appreciation’s to you’re art. Thanks!
Hi Andy, I have used Automotive in-line fuse holders with 5 Amp Micro Blade Fuses to protect the balancing leads. Also EPIC H-A connectors for the devices (female on the battery, male on the balancer).
Do we need a 60V rating? The BMS measures the cells individually... I'm not expecting the fuses will blow ever. It's more form a safety perspective of having it to protect the cables.
@@OffGridGarageAustralia Which two wires do you expect to cross? You don't know which will short. Yeah, you need max charged pack voltage rating(maybe that is 58 or 59V). The mini blade fuses are only rated at 32V.
Hi Andy, i would not go with two set of wires but rather go with parallel connection between end blocks… same utility in my view as this is parallel connection. All the best and keep the nice interesting videos!
It would appear you actually have Polycarbonate instead of Plexiglass . Maybe there is something in between ? I know you can't do that to the cheap stuff we have in the USA . But can easily do it to Polycarbonate (lexan) . Lookin Good !
After watching this lovely battery build, I can't help hearing a "Sh duck sound" in a German accent if I go near mine! I expect the skip around the back of Victrons factory looks neater, lol 😆 one day!
Another great video. I really like the LED ideals you spun off. Perhaps you can still use on metal side to give a visual reference. Can be battery charge, or even BMS active state. Something like Blue all perfect, Red charging, Green Balance active.....
as for the breaker; you might think about using threaded rod connectors (long threaded nuts, like turnbuckle but all the same thread). as for the doors to cover the batteries i would hinge them with removable pins and snap latches (over center) that way if you need to get in in a hurry you can . not have to remove a bunch of screws first. (think of a breaker panel to get to the breaker open door vs remove screws) looking good
For the broken tap Use a T handle tapping wrench Put your wd40 on the tap and turn it by hand After you get it started, do quarter to half turns and back off to break the aluminum chips from your tap Aluminum can be gummy, and stick to the tap and break it And 4mm threads can hum up fast using the drill
I know how to hand tap, have done this in my apprenticeship in the 80s. We had still 3 sets to tap one thread. The thread depth got deeper and deeper with every set you used. It took forever. Here in AU, they mainly use the machine tapping. That's the first one I broke in 30 years. It broke because I tapped thought he Al sheet which moved slightly and jammed the tap.
Andy, thank you for the insights. Instead of using 2x16/17 2-wire terminal blocks there are also 3-wire terminal blocks available from Wago or others, that have fan-out of 2+ instead of one. This would save one connection to each cell and a fuse. They are also called 3/4-wire through terminals. You should also place the terminal block at a position where you have easy access to the screws/tension springs to change wiring. Even more convenient would be kind of standard connector to connect some other device to the cells directly. I have additional JST connectors to connect a cell monitor or balancer to the cells.
I know these terminals too. You just should use separate cables to the terminals for each component connected (separate balance cables for BMS and balancer). Piggybacking can create problems when devices interfere with each other on the same line.
@@OffGridGarageAustralia The devices are still at the same line when both passiv conductive links are connected at the same bus bar. If there is interference between both connected devices then two separate links will not prevent this.
You might be able to mount the LED's inside of an aluminum C channel(with frosted cover),, and mount this on the front cross members in-between the aluminum panels. Would look cool.
112121/1112h PST 🇺🇸 112221/0512h Brisbane 🇦🇺 Good day, Andy. Thank you for the instruction on drilling Acrylic/polycarbonate material. I learned the best method is to maintain low rpm. Hitherto, I used medium~high speed and the result being the bit, bit into the parent material and frustration as a result. Danke schon. Same with the jig saw….have a nice day ahead und 73s…
Instead of fuses PTC thermistors they go high resistance when they heat up so if you get a shorted wire the thermistor heats up and goes high resistance.
@@OffGridGarageAustralia Its something that should be done if some how a short occurs in that wiring you do not want the wires burning so a fuse or a PTC is needed , the PTC are common in commercial gear, your doing the right thing .
It's not the speed that takes out small taps. It's an off axis force. Any bending force will snap the tap. I'm extremely nervous when using a drill because they are heavy. But the success rate is higher than hand tapping.
The Aluminium sheet got in the way and blocked the bit when it snapped. I tapped through the existing hole and the sheet moved a bit 🤷♂️ That was the first bit for 30 years or so. Still got two spare ones 😂
I leave the BMS on if the main switch is off. The reason is in case I have to shut down the battery, the BMS is still there to monitor all cell voltages. So in an emergency I can shut down the battery and then analyse through the BMS what was going on. But that's just my thinking. You can have the main switch directly at the battery and it just shuts everything down.
You should chamfer that hole on the top and the bottom of plexi ever so slightly. Sharp corners as created by drilling are prime stress points for cracking. Breaks tap using drill, shows spares "Hand tap". As for your base material, I would have sourced some unclad glass laminate -- the stuff PCBs are made out of. Strong as hell and you can get it w/ out copper cladding. Stuff is nearly indestructible.
Looks great Andy, I do like the LED light idea’s & have suggested same in unrelated video of urs. This is an awesome build Andy, I reckon, be a ‘piggy’ and get tempered glass doors made up that u can open down & unclip a link/strut/cord to slide off sideways for total removal and maintenance if required from an otherwise tabletop type opening, pricey but pretty! All ur pro’s n cons arguments are really well considered. Oh yeah, where is ur cordless vac? I use Makita gear, so Ive always got plenty of batteries around to have the vac on hand for those little metal filing jobs,etc. thanks for all the great vids!
the thing is if IF something goes pearshaped you want to be able to shut down (turn switches off) quickly and intuititivly not having to think to hard which one what order that sort of thing (think of it like this would someone be able to walk in off the street and be able to make the system safe)
Hi Andy a couple of things , those covers on the back of the breaker they get removed and a accessory rear connection kit ( Studs ) get inserted and you can connect direct onto the studs, In regard to the fuses i tried some 5 amp fuses i also short circuit tested to see how aggressive they ruptured, all be it i used ceramic fuses of which i found the rupture was well contained. What i also tried was a voltage drop & balancing current test across the fuse of which i know you like a balancing challenge so i was surprised at the result and i think you should check to see if you will be happy with the result
Thanks for sharing. I can set a separate resistance value for each balance channel in the BMS individually, so can calibrate each line if I need to. I like these small fuses because... they are small and I can mount them easily very close to the actual bus bar terminals. I looked at the rear connection kit and it seems like an accessory you need to buy. It also looks rather thin considering the normal cable lug would be sitting on the thick terminal busbar of these breakers.
@@OffGridGarageAustralia thats right, those ones, you can hold the jk down with it 😁 I might think you have some laying around. Otherwise, two holes and a tywrap
@@OffGridGarageAustralia I am constructing a very similar project. I consider useing a thermal adhesive pad to hold that exact bms in place. Seems like it would also help keep it cool.
excellent analysis / planing as always .. perhaps slightly thinner aluminium for front covers .. or even perferated screens so breathes better .. and hinge at bottom so folds down .. if doing any maintainance it gives yo ua convenient workspace to lose your screwdriver on .. as you tinker ?! .. smiles .. just a thought .. the hinges could be side slide so can just slide completely off if required ?.. any way .. greta VIEWING AS ALWAYS .. CHEERS .. woops .. neve ra touvh type rhere ... lol hu ruu
Hello Andi If a current of just under 5 amps would flow for a longer period of time, the fuse would not blow. How long a thin balancer cable can withstand 5 amps is imaginable ;-) The line distributor shown is not much good . The screw that is inserted through turns when you tighten the nut. At least that's what happened to me , I broke the back , locked the nut with the screw and then glued ( filled ) the cavity around the screw head with 2 K glue . Open the BMS and solder thicker and longer cables to it . This would be more elegant than working with these line distributors . Grüsse aus Deutschland ( Ruhrarea )
@@OffGridGarageAustralia The BMS I know have lines (high current lines) that are ultrasonically welded. With a soldering iron with enough power you can solder thicker wires, and a housing can be adapted to thicker wires. But I did not mean these lines, I meant the balancer lines of the individual cells, these can be easily replaced with thicker lines.
9:45 regarding your fuse choice If you put such a glas fuse in and it blows you would have a lot steps to do to get the system running again. I would suggest a different solution by putting a 16 channel automotive fuse box NEXT to the BMS connection box you had added. advantages in case of an exchange after they blow are * faster * easier * safer (cause you are not working above the cells in the small area above the cells but on the safe more spacious side) And it is cleaner too, cause you centralize the fuses there, where they belong like the BMS is also just one box and not 16 boxes Yes, pretty late, but for a summariziing 'community build video' or 'real community built V3 Battery - what I had done better with your crowdknowledge' it would make sense And there must be a ton of other stuff you mentioned in side notes or sentences, thoughts and decision like what you later called 'smartmeter always first before the bms' therefore the real community battery build video would make a lot of sense while I am running through all the 33 videos of the playlist so far. excellent job and video
Those aren't rated for 48V and the point of the fuses on those wires is to protect the wire itself. Moving the fuses next to the BMS would then defeat the point of having the fuses to begin with since you'd have nearly the entire run of wire unprotected.
You don't have to use both. The JK-BMS has already an active balancer integrated which will do the job. Basically, you can have as many balancers in parallel on a battery as you want. They even can have different settings and start and stop at different voltages. I can connect the JK-BMS to my battery and also have the active balance connected at the same time. They both read the same battery voltages, right? The JK-BMS may kick in earlier to balance the cells due to its settings. If it can't cope and the voltage in on cell is rising further, the active balancer could be added to help balancing. I'll show and explain this in a future video...
Bonsoir ANDY, superbe idée les répartiteurs ! ainsi que les différents BUS de connexion que tu as prévu dans ce projet. Pour la position du BMS, ton approche semble bonne... bien par mon expérience on a toujours besoin de place pour un futur appareil ou futur modification dans une armoire. Moi même, je suis en permanence dans des modifications diverses, car les idées n'arrêtes pas aussi bien par tes vidéos que par mes réflexions. Toutefois le BMS mis en vertical serait le plus approprier, à défaut d'être en horizontal sur la plaque de plexi... Merci pour cette belle vidéo et j'attends la suite...;-)
@@OffGridGarageAustralia yes, but I think you may also be pointing out why it may not be a good idea to fuse at the busbars. Another question on bms fusing, I know the fuses are rated in amps/volts, as amps are not a measure of heat/work, how does this vary over the battery?
Thanks Andy, Just a thought regarding the tapped holes in the "Paul plates" maybe a screw from the bottom up will give you a nice stud (button soc screw, low profile head)
@@OffGridGarageAustralia I would do the same with the big copper bus bars up the top. slightly longer bolt up from the bottom with a bit of Loctite on the head of the set screw and nip it up. only need one spanner / socket to do the nuts up and never need to worry about stripped threads in soft metal
What's the Arc Interrupt Rating on the main battery breaker you're using? Personally I use a Class-T fuse on the main positive terminal before everything else - gives peace of mind.
The breaker has 25kA interruption capability. Better or equal to a class-T fuse. I went through the specs in this video: ua-cam.com/video/O9o3sFn8xNM/v-deo.html
I know that it's "Low-Tech" but you could use Actual Glass (it's non-combustible too) for the front panel, or if you wanted to get "fancy" you could use a Custom Tempered Glass and even add a smoke, blue or other tint to it.
How do I mount it though? There needs to be a frame designed, manufactured and installed as well for real glass. This all gets a bit too much, I believe just to look inside...
@@OffGridGarageAustralia didn't you ever have a tv cabinet that had those tempered glass doors with the hinges clamped onto them and the magnetic closures?
Sir, in respect to your "clear front viewing port", most regulations speaking of combustible or flammable material have a rating related to it. In your case, the plastic material data sheet should refer to this rating, and as long as it meets or exceeds it, you are good. Especially for a "monitoring window". UL (Underwritters Laboratory) lists a flammability rating of V-0 or such. I am sure your regulations have the same type of rating. Good luck!!
Thank you James. I'll have a look at this. There is also the Best Practice Guide for Battery Storage Equipment which gives some guidelines around that here in Australia.
Given that you're designing this battery pack with 'tinkering' in mind, would it be worth using a blade switch to be able to isolate the cells from the BMS B-/B+ instead of using a single stud bus bar? That would give you the connection for the short cables that you're seeking, and give you the safety to remove the BMS without using tools on high voltage DC. And is there an option to fit some sort of NTC thermistor in series for that soft start when the cells first connect to the BMS? (Probably not at that current level)
Why not go ahead and use your aluminum for the sides but have a hole cut in with a window plexiglass you can still see in you still follow a code and you can put your lights on the inside to light it up so you can see in there
3M VHB tape, industrial velcro (both sides are the same) or Alien Tape all will hold that BMS to any vertical surface. No screws needed. And no, it won't fall off. Cover the whole bottom of the BMS and you won't be able to pull it off without pry tools.
@@mhamma6560 The 3M version of industrial velcro is not like the cloth version. It can do daily heat cycling over 160F for 10 years and still hold like a champ. Similarly real VHB hold skyscraper windows in despite heat cycling. If the BMS is heavy cycling that much, it is going to burn out very quickly. Since there are no factory mounting points on it, I doubt they plan for it to be heat sinked.
Why not use a db25 parallel port plug to plug the bms into? VGA only has 15 pins, so not good for 16S system. DB25 specs: Operating voltage: 250V AC / DC max. Current rating: 5 Amps max. Contact resistance: 20 mΩ max. initial Insulation resistance: 5000 MΩ min. Dielectric withstanding voltage: 1000V AC for 1 min
Morning Andy, from sunny Central Victoria. Andy what are the electrical rules for these shelves mate, here in Australia? I have a bank of those terminals from the plastic injection control box I picked up.
Create a bracket with a 3d printer on the back wall and hook it up with a 2-1 inline splice on each side. It can slide in to the bracket without being screwed if it wraps around the sides.
Extend the wires by soldering another wire to your S wires mate. Make a aluminium bracket to too hold it down. Use glass doors on shelve as it is not combustible.
Hi Andy, thank you for the great videos! Question: Do you think it is an issue to rotate the eve 280Ah batteries 90° so the small side is facing down and the terminals are facing towards you. Small side facing down, fixture left and right Terminals on the front. like this: -->|||||||||
From what I heard, they are not designed to be in a side position forever. The electrolyte is a liquid inside (shake them and you can hear it splashing around inside), so they need to be upright most of the time. If this is all true, I'm not sure but makes sense to me...
I am not sure if it is a good idea to insert fuses to the balancing lines. If the balancer is measuring only while it is not balancing, then it should be OK. But if not, there could be a tiny measurement error due to the voltage drop. I don't know the resistance of these fuses (5 , 10, 20 mOhms or more?). For a balancing current of 2A the additional voltage drop could be some 10 .. 50 mV already. OK, not that much and all lines have a fuse, so it should cancel out, but maybe not for the first/last cell. It would be interesting to know if the balancer is working as expected with the fuses. After the balancer says that all cells are properly balanced, could you check the voltages with a multimeter please?
Well, if this is a problem, then I should not use the terminal blocks either, this all adds to the resistance. With the JK BMS its not an issue because each balance cable can be calibrated separately to suit the actual resistance of the individual cable.
Hi, I would like to ask: What would be a good price for those 280 Ah Cells at the moment? Did the price really increased that much? I cant find a good source that is willing to sell under 94 dollars per cell. (not including shipping) Thanks so far!
I really don't know yet. We're starting with 2 banks and 15kWh each. That will probable do most of my needs. 300kWh is a bit too much and unnecessary for s single house.
@@OffGridGarageAustralia oh wow ok, I was going to build electric off grid campervan for the weekend and day use with 31kwh battery ( 32x 304ah Eve cells) but the weight might be an issue, so I might just use 16 cells instead. What do you think?
Why don't you make a separate bank that's holds fuses? For example those types of fuses found in cars. That way, when they blow, they would be quite easy to replace. I don't know the cost of the fuses that you use, but the car fuses are relatively cheap
Andy, it always occurs to me: with all the valuable information you've provided to your viewers, and with all the advice from 17,000 subscribers intent on helping you achieve the the best solution for your garage, that battery 2.0 can truly be called "The Community Battery".
Thanks for sharing the journey with us!
Thank you Chris. I'm trying to share as much as possible to make it a community project. If something goes wrong later on, everyone can troubleshoot 😂
@@OffGridGarageAustralia And be blamed!
@@keyem4504 Great idea! 😂
I've been having more consistent result soldering my voltage sensing wore to the busbars. Kept having conflicting readings with traditional crimp connections. I like the idea of fusing them but I wonder how it will change the resistance. Bigger fuses seem to have difference in where they blow, they're not exactly the same. Just in what I've learned and just my opinion too. Keep killing it Andy. Happy to see all the progress!
Fuses won't change anything. Keep in mind the wires are tiny as it is. You can only properly ascertain battery voltage if very little current is running through the wires. This is why the higher amperage balancers only sense when current isn't flowing. The wire is afterall, a fuse --- just a really dangerous one.
Andy, you may want to do a test to insure the Bluetooth signal from the BMS can communicate from inside the aluminum walled shelf. Better to know now if you need to mount the BMS on an external wall for the sake of that signal.
Nah, I have had this question for a long time with the electric cabinet. I can still receive the BT signal at my pool, 20m away even if the metal cabinet is closed. The metal frame does almost nothing to the signal.
@@OffGridGarageAustralia Ahh good to know, thanks.
Fantastic job Andy !
Thank you!
Looking amazing. Worth the wait.
Your inner German perfectionism is showing 😂
I try to think about as much as possible this time and won't rush.
Hey Andy,
Keep up the great work and you always are happy when you build things or test things.
Thanks, will do!
NICE!!! Good job Andy.
Thank you! Cheers!
Sorry for not warning you about the use of these harder plastics, clamping, slow and steady is always good practice. not sure about lubricant made from petroleum based products though, might stain the plastic, there is a product that you can put on to join it, might help make the cracks disappear might be acetone but not sure.
The cracks are hidden under the bus bar support so won't crack any further. Not too worried about it...
My suggestion for the clamps: Use four-pole wago spring-loaded terminals. Only one line from the bus bar, no ferrules necessary and three possible connections.
As fuses I would take automotive flat fuses. There are "flying" fuse holders with insulation displacement connectors aviliable for these. No soldering, crimping and heatshrink hassle if a fuse blows, just swap it.
Automotive fuses have no 60V rating though. The fuses should be installed as close to the terminals as possible as they protect the cables mainly.
@@OffGridGarageAustralia That's what the "flying" fuse holders are for, just cut the wire 2-3 cm after the cable lug connecting to the busbar and snap on the fuse holder. Because they are fused now you could use bigger wires, 0,75..1,5mm², reduces resistance and eases handling. Voltage rating: Most likely scenario to blow such a fuse is connecting some neighboring BMS wires the wrong way, will result in 3.6V - 10.8V across the fuse... Otherwise I am very sure they will blow nicely at 50V, especially the "little" ones with 5A.
Hi Andy.
In my view the best place for the fuses should be at this new terminal sides instead of bus bars in between cells.
That's for a few reasons:
Can be tested quickly as they close to each others.
Can be replaced easily if you use a mounting rack like the car fuse holder...
Away from the battery terminals means you never have to go and play around over there where space will be limited and margin of error is too small while fixing, so is not safe play around there...
The fuses need to be as close as possible to the terminals to protect the cables behind them going to the BMS.
Car fuse holders are only approved to 12V/24V...
It's not about convenience unfortunately...🤷♂️
A electric jig saw cutting acrilic... 😲😲🤯🤯 Blew my mind!
Living and leaning!!! 👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼
Getting good with those holes!!!
Good job.
Yes, super easy to cut and work with this material if you know how. Watch the video in the description. They even use table sames and mitre saws to cut it...
Just get some transparent aluminum for the front. It's only around $10 per square inch. :D
Also, consider sourcing an LED that connects to either side of the fuse so that when the fuse is blown, the LED lights. Search for led fuse indicator. Given the voltage of the batteries, nothing fancy should be needed, just an LED connected to either side of it. Another option is to place LEDs at your wiring block that bridge between each cell and go out if the fuse is blown. I prefer the blown fuse illumination over the fuse good illumination. Part of my "don't bother me if nothing is wrong" philosophy.
I do this on all of my builds. Super fast diagnostics.
The fuses will literally never blow. They are more peace of mind actually to protect the thinner balance cables from this massive battery 🙂
You got so preocupied with this build, you forgot to update you panel to 17000+ subscribers 😉
At 21471 again 😂
Some really great ideas!
Thanks Martin!
Go fancy. Instead of soldering in fuses use ATO/ATC fuses or minifuses. They make them now with a built in red LED that lights up if the fuse blows.
I looked at them. The problem is they need to be installed as close to the battery terminals as possible.
I like the Disco lights Buddy. 😁
It would be cool, right 😂🥳
Yes it would…. Thanks for all the great Ideas. You are doing some of the stuff I do, but you do it with Class.👍
@@dstevens7614 And it all takes forever!!!!
About the BMS mounting. If you get a BMS that has busbar mounts only (like JBD) you can build your own cables exactly the length you need. Or can you cut off the ring terminals and splice new cable to get the right length? I know I hate splices too, but done right they are electrically fine and good shrink wrap with internal adhesive makes them very safe.
The QUCC has bus bar mounts and M8 bolts. That is very handy!
modularity i like it
I've used the single pin busbar. Works very well for what you are asking of it.
Ah, great, I was hoping someone leaves a comment. Do they com with a cover? It does not seem so...
@@OffGridGarageAustralia No. Mine are just like yours and they did not come with a cover. You can buy some silicone terminal covers for your ring terminals though. Amazon has " Fastronix 3/8" stud terminal covers red and black" for 8.99 US. I don't like these as well as actual terminal covers, but they do offer good protection if done right. As an aside, I was in Australia in 1988. One of the best rips of my life. Best to you and keep up the great content. I learn much and have to think every time I watch. Its all good.
trips not "rips"....
For the BMS B- and P- wires, you can use the same type of DIN-rail gray terminal blocks like you have there for the balancing leads (just for higher diameter wires).
Or DIN-rail terminals with a piece of busbar with studs or holes. These terminals are for connection of 35-150 sq mm (typical) wires. But it sometimes has relatively high price.
Very good ideas, I like when people think out of the box. Great video
Thank you, Marco.
Hi Andy! I like your Idea with the additional terminals to connect further equipement. But have a look at something like Wago's "3-Leiter-Durchgangsklemme" (Art.-Nr. 2002-1301) You could then route only one thin cable (perhaps with a 10A Fuse?) down to the Terminals and wire in your BMS and the "additional device" to the Wago Terminals. Just an Idea! Less wires, cleaner look!
Ideally you don't want to put load on the sense leads of your bms with an unrelated device like an active balancer, otherwise the bms will get skewed readings for the cells.
I know the terminals you're referring to. If connecting a BMS and separate balancer for example, you should not use the same balance cables but connect them individually to each terminal of the battery. I know some people are piggybacking their devices onto the same cables, some have even trouble afterwards 😊
Looking really nice. You could use PTCs(resetable fuse resistors) instead of single use fuses for the leads. Probably likely to have a few fuses blow if you are testing balancers. If you are wondering if the wires melt....no. The balancer diodes smoke first. No particular reason I know that. LOL.
I meant if you have a short on one of the balance cables it will melt quickly but still could lead to a fire of its insulation.
I'm not expecting to have more than 5A of current going through these balance cables actually. If I go 10A I would need thicker cable already...
Crafting with Andy!
Learned that from you 😉
@@OffGridGarageAustralia ^_^
I used 14awg between the battery terminals and a connector. The wire is a lot more sturdy than the tiny stuff that comes with the BMS. I fused it for 10 amps, but if need be I'd be comfortable running 20 amps thru the wire, but not sure the connectors are good for that. I can hook up a balance charger (a pair of ISDT-Q8) but so far the cells are staying in balance.
You can buy special drill bits for acrylic. But all they do is grind off the outside corner of the bit so it doesn’t grab. Just modify you own bit
I like the removable BMS idea and just having it lay flat on the acrylic. Also there certainly isnt much point in giving it a window because it will be hard to see anything anyway where it is going to reside. Keep up the awesome work!
Great, thank you!
@@OffGridGarageAustralia after seeing the video about modifying the BMS with the bigger wires I definitely think it could work provided you have the right soldering iron for such a large cable. Dont forget to count the strands so they are even 😂
I'm using my old lead acid battery box after a very thorough cleaning and the addition of four balancers and home made bussbars what held 12 Kwh lead acid now can hold 28 Kwhr's Lipo with room to spare
Oh, wow, that will make a big difference. You cannot have enough storage.
Andy disappointed in the no clear front and no fancy leds inside. I was looking forward to seeing it on the 2022 OGG Bus Tour
Wait! It's a Bus CLUB Tour... You need to be a member 😂
I'll put them on when you come over. Just for the day...
Excellent Andy! Have you considered tempered glass panels installed in aluminum frames? I used to build custom industrial switchgear, controls and motor control centers, and on a few applications where it was important to be able to look inside control panels, to monitor indicators functions, I used wire-reinforced shatter-proof glass, with silicone strips and an aluminum backing plate and stand-off bushings. To meet code, you might not even need wire reinforced glass.
Lexan and and some poly sheets meet UL 94 V-0 and other flame retardant specs, so they might meet code. There's also 'FR' flame-retardant clear plastics and acrylics.
I considered that for almost a second a while back. I think we're drifting a bit away from building a battery here in the first place. The window would be a nice feature/gimmick but I don't want to get a builder licence first to finalise it. I need to read the current regulations again and see what is allowed.
@@OffGridGarageAustralia I tend to agree, unless audience interest justifies it, it seems a waste of resources. It's such a nice bit of work It's almost a shame to hide it away, but perhaps an easy to open hinged door is good enough when you need a peek for the camera.
Internal work lighting might a nice feature work and video.
#Off-grid garage Andy I really love your German perfection style and your humor. Keep it up! I also really like the information you give me so I learn more and be inspired building diy off grid. I just want to give my appreciation’s to you’re art. Thanks!
Hi Andy, I have used Automotive in-line fuse holders with 5 Amp Micro Blade Fuses to protect the balancing leads.
Also EPIC H-A connectors for the devices (female on the battery, male on the balancer).
They are not rated for 60V. The 20mm or 30mm round versions come with higher voltage.
Do we need a 60V rating? The BMS measures the cells individually...
I'm not expecting the fuses will blow ever. It's more form a safety perspective of having it to protect the cables.
In case there is an fault from the most postitive cell-balancing lead against the Ground you have the max pack Voltage the fuse has to break.
@@OlanFantaziya OK, for this scenario you're right. So car fuses cannot be used for this purpose.
@@OffGridGarageAustralia Which two wires do you expect to cross? You don't know which will short. Yeah, you need max charged pack voltage rating(maybe that is 58 or 59V). The mini blade fuses are only rated at 32V.
Hi Andy, i would not go with two set of wires but rather go with parallel connection between end blocks… same utility in my view as this is parallel connection. All the best and keep the nice interesting videos!
It would appear you actually have Polycarbonate instead of Plexiglass . Maybe there is something in between ? I know you can't do that to the cheap stuff we have in the USA . But can easily do it to Polycarbonate (lexan) . Lookin Good !
That's definitely not Polycarbonate as quickly as it cracks. It's called Acrylic. Plexiglas is just a brand of Acrylic.
BMS sensor cables; what about too much resistance/voltage drop on so complicated sensor wireing?
I can set the resistance in the BMS for each balance channel to compensate for that.
It's moot for sensing. A 1 meter 20ga copper wire using 10ma (v sense) provides 3.99939 volts from a 4v input.
Thumbs up and subscribed!
So many great ideas I get from you Andy! Love your Channel. Keep up the great content buddy.
Thanks! Will do!
After watching this lovely battery build, I can't help hearing a "Sh duck sound" in a German accent if I go near mine! I expect the skip around the back of Victrons factory looks neater, lol 😆 one day!
Another great video. I really like the LED ideals you spun off. Perhaps you can still use on metal side to give a visual reference. Can be battery charge, or even BMS active state. Something like Blue all perfect, Red charging, Green Balance active.....
Yeah, that's what I was thinking off. Let's see if there is a way to implement them somehow in a useful way.
as for the breaker; you might think about using threaded rod connectors (long threaded nuts, like turnbuckle but all the same thread). as for the doors to cover the batteries i would hinge them with removable pins and snap latches (over center) that way if you need to get in in a hurry you can . not have to remove a bunch of screws first. (think of a breaker panel to get to the breaker open door vs remove screws) looking good
The covers of the battery storage can only be tool removable as per regulations. It's not allowed to have just a hinged cover.
For the broken tap
Use a T handle tapping wrench
Put your wd40 on the tap and turn it by hand
After you get it started, do quarter to half turns and back off to break the aluminum chips from your tap
Aluminum can be gummy, and stick to the tap and break it
And 4mm threads can hum up fast using the drill
You are correct. Hand tap ≠ machine tap 😎
I know how to hand tap, have done this in my apprenticeship in the 80s. We had still 3 sets to tap one thread. The thread depth got deeper and deeper with every set you used. It took forever. Here in AU, they mainly use the machine tapping. That's the first one I broke in 30 years. It broke because I tapped thought he Al sheet which moved slightly and jammed the tap.
Andy, thank you for the insights.
Instead of using 2x16/17 2-wire terminal blocks there are also 3-wire terminal blocks available from Wago or others, that have fan-out of 2+ instead of one. This would save one connection to each cell and a fuse. They are also called 3/4-wire through terminals.
You should also place the terminal block at a position where you have easy access to the screws/tension springs to change wiring.
Even more convenient would be kind of standard connector to connect some other device to the cells directly. I have additional JST connectors to connect a cell monitor or balancer to the cells.
I know these terminals too. You just should use separate cables to the terminals for each component connected (separate balance cables for BMS and balancer). Piggybacking can create problems when devices interfere with each other on the same line.
@@OffGridGarageAustralia The devices are still at the same line when both passiv conductive links are connected at the same bus bar. If there is interference between both connected devices then two separate links will not prevent this.
You might be able to mount the LED's inside of an aluminum C channel(with frosted cover),, and mount this on the front cross members in-between the aluminum panels. Would look cool.
There won't be any space in between the Al sheets. I'll find a way... 😉
112121/1112h PST 🇺🇸 112221/0512h Brisbane 🇦🇺 Good day, Andy. Thank you for the instruction on drilling Acrylic/polycarbonate material. I learned the best method is to maintain low rpm. Hitherto, I used medium~high speed and the result being the bit, bit into the parent material and frustration as a result. Danke schon.
Same with the jig saw….have a nice day ahead und 73s…
Yes, slow speed is your friend with acrylic and the result is perfect...
Thanks.
Manual dc disconnect for bms connections ? We use polycarbonate "viewing windows" in electrical panels all the time. Passes UL inspection .
A viewing window might be fine but a whole panel... 🤔
What is UL inspection? That's US, right? They are totally nuts down here on the island...
Instead of fuses PTC thermistors they go high resistance when they heat up so if you get a shorted wire the thermistor heats up and goes high resistance.
I'm not expecting the fuses to trigger at any point of time and certainly not on a regular base. They are more a peace of mind set.
@@OffGridGarageAustralia Its something that should be done if some how a short occurs in that wiring you do not want the wires burning so a fuse or a PTC is needed , the PTC are common in commercial gear, your doing the right thing .
Thr acrilic or other plastic should be flame resistant.
For the " taps" i think if you cook them 250 c one hour per inch will do.
It's not the speed that takes out small taps. It's an off axis force. Any bending force will snap the tap. I'm extremely nervous when using a drill because they are heavy. But the success rate is higher than hand tapping.
The Aluminium sheet got in the way and blocked the bit when it snapped. I tapped through the existing hole and the sheet moved a bit 🤷♂️ That was the first bit for 30 years or so. Still got two spare ones 😂
Hi and thanks again for great videos! For safety and service: Battery connected directly to breaker or battery switch before the bms a good option?
I leave the BMS on if the main switch is off. The reason is in case I have to shut down the battery, the BMS is still there to monitor all cell voltages. So in an emergency I can shut down the battery and then analyse through the BMS what was going on. But that's just my thinking. You can have the main switch directly at the battery and it just shuts everything down.
You should chamfer that hole on the top and the bottom of plexi ever so slightly. Sharp corners as created by drilling are prime stress points for cracking. Breaks tap using drill, shows spares "Hand tap". As for your base material, I would have sourced some unclad glass laminate -- the stuff PCBs are made out of. Strong as hell and you can get it w/ out copper cladding. Stuff is nearly indestructible.
Looks great Andy, I do like the LED light idea’s & have suggested same in unrelated video of urs. This is an awesome build Andy, I reckon, be a ‘piggy’ and get tempered glass doors made up that u can open down & unclip a link/strut/cord to slide off sideways for total removal and maintenance if required from an otherwise tabletop type opening, pricey but pretty! All ur pro’s n cons arguments are really well considered. Oh yeah, where is ur cordless vac? I use Makita gear, so Ive always got plenty of batteries around to have the vac on hand for those little metal filing jobs,etc. thanks for all the great vids!
I use lifepo4 (3s 12-14,6v conf.) with no fuses or bms on standard epever mppt 40 solar controller for 3 years. I'm waiting a bang! to happen :)
the thing is if IF something goes pearshaped you want to be able to shut down (turn switches off) quickly and intuititivly not having to think to hard which one what order that sort of thing (think of it like this would someone be able to walk in off the street and be able to make the system safe)
That's what the main breaker is for. It will shut everything down.
Doing a great job
Thank you.
Hi Andy a couple of things , those covers on the back of the breaker they get removed and a accessory rear connection kit ( Studs ) get inserted and you can connect direct onto the studs,
In regard to the fuses i tried some 5 amp fuses i also short circuit tested to see how aggressive they ruptured, all be it i used ceramic fuses of which i found the rupture was well contained.
What i also tried was a voltage drop & balancing current test across the fuse of which i know you like a balancing challenge so i was surprised at the result and i think you should check to see if you will be happy with the result
Thanks for sharing. I can set a separate resistance value for each balance channel in the BMS individually, so can calibrate each line if I need to.
I like these small fuses because... they are small and I can mount them easily very close to the actual bus bar terminals.
I looked at the rear connection kit and it seems like an accessory you need to buy. It also looks rather thin considering the normal cable lug would be sitting on the thick terminal busbar of these breakers.
Andy where did you get that bms terminal block. That is a great idea.
It's here on my website now
off-grid-garage.com/battery-accessories/
Heya some light in that closed would be nice if you could see it lol
Wouldn't a glass sheet be the clear non-combustible material you're looking for?
Andy, great ideas. For attaching your jk bms to the chassis, you could use the clamps of your solar panels.
The clamps if the solar panels? Which war holding down the panels on the rails?
@@OffGridGarageAustralia thats right, those ones, you can hold the jk down with it 😁 I might think you have some laying around. Otherwise, two holes and a tywrap
@@edwardvanhazendonk The questions is, do I need to hold it down? Where could it go?
@@OffGridGarageAustralia I am constructing a very similar project. I consider useing a thermal adhesive pad to hold that exact bms in place. Seems like it would also help keep it cool.
excellent analysis / planing as always .. perhaps slightly thinner aluminium for front covers .. or even perferated screens so breathes better .. and hinge at bottom so folds down .. if doing any maintainance it gives yo ua convenient workspace to lose your screwdriver on .. as you tinker ?! .. smiles .. just a thought .. the hinges could be side slide so can just slide completely off if required ?.. any way .. greta VIEWING AS ALWAYS .. CHEERS .. woops .. neve ra touvh type rhere ... lol hu ruu
Thanks Mike!
Hello Andi
If a current of just under 5 amps would flow for a longer period of time, the fuse would not blow. How long a thin balancer cable can withstand 5 amps is imaginable ;-)
The line distributor shown is not much good .
The screw that is inserted through turns when you tighten the nut.
At least that's what happened to me , I broke the back , locked the nut with the screw and then glued ( filled ) the cavity around the screw head with 2 K glue .
Open the BMS and solder thicker and longer cables to it .
This would be more elegant than working with these line distributors .
Grüsse aus Deutschland ( Ruhrarea )
The cables at the BMS are fixed and cannot be replaced with thicker cables. The whole case would not close any more.
@@OffGridGarageAustralia The BMS I know have lines (high current lines) that are ultrasonically welded.
With a soldering iron with enough power you can solder thicker wires, and a housing can be adapted to thicker wires.
But I did not mean these lines, I meant the balancer lines of the individual cells, these can be easily replaced with thicker lines.
9:45 regarding your fuse choice
If you put such a glas fuse in and it blows you would have a lot steps to do to get the system running again.
I would suggest a different solution by putting a 16 channel automotive fuse box NEXT to the BMS connection box you had added.
advantages in case of an exchange after they blow are
* faster
* easier
* safer (cause you are not working above the cells in the small area above the cells but on the safe more spacious side)
And it is cleaner too, cause you centralize the fuses there, where they belong like the BMS is also just one box and not 16 boxes
Yes, pretty late, but for a summariziing 'community build video' or 'real community built V3 Battery - what I had done better with your crowdknowledge' it would make sense
And there must be a ton of other stuff you mentioned in side notes or sentences, thoughts and decision like what you later called 'smartmeter always first before the bms'
therefore the real community battery build video would make a lot of sense while I am running through all the 33 videos of the playlist so far.
excellent job and video
Those aren't rated for 48V and the point of the fuses on those wires is to protect the wire itself. Moving the fuses next to the BMS would then defeat the point of having the fuses to begin with since you'd have nearly the entire run of wire unprotected.
I'm a little confused, how the JK BMS and the balancers (many caps on it) work together.
You don't have to use both. The JK-BMS has already an active balancer integrated which will do the job.
Basically, you can have as many balancers in parallel on a battery as you want. They even can have different settings and start and stop at different voltages.
I can connect the JK-BMS to my battery and also have the active balance connected at the same time. They both read the same battery voltages, right? The JK-BMS may kick in earlier to balance the cells due to its settings. If it can't cope and the voltage in on cell is rising further, the active balancer could be added to help balancing.
I'll show and explain this in a future video...
Bonsoir ANDY, superbe idée les répartiteurs ! ainsi que les différents BUS de connexion que tu as prévu dans ce projet. Pour la position du BMS, ton approche semble bonne... bien par mon expérience on a toujours besoin de place pour un futur appareil ou futur modification dans une armoire. Moi même, je suis en permanence dans des modifications diverses, car les idées n'arrêtes pas aussi bien par tes vidéos que par mes réflexions. Toutefois le BMS mis en vertical serait le plus approprier, à défaut d'être en horizontal sur la plaque de plexi... Merci pour cette belle vidéo et j'attends la suite...;-)
I believe wago and Siemens have fused terminals
Yeah, but the fuses are then far apart from the actual terminals of the batteries. The cables in between would be unfused.
@@OffGridGarageAustralia yes, but I think you may also be pointing out why it may not be a good idea to fuse at the busbars.
Another question on bms fusing, I know the fuses are rated in amps/volts, as amps are not a measure of heat/work, how does this vary over the battery?
Thanks Andy, Just a thought regarding the tapped holes in the "Paul plates" maybe a screw from the bottom up will give you a nice stud (button soc screw, low profile head)
What would be the benefit?
I can see that I cannot hold down this screw easily when tightening the nut from above, so it's a bad idea I would say...
@@OffGridGarageAustralia I would do the same with the big copper bus bars up the top. slightly longer bolt up from the bottom with a bit of Loctite on the head of the set screw and nip it up. only need one spanner / socket to do the nuts up and never need to worry about stripped threads in soft metal
If plexiglass is a 'good practice' problem for the viewing windows how come it is acceptable for the shelf floor?
The shelf floor is not made of plexiglass...
@@OffGridGarageAustralia But didn't you put a plexiglass layer on top of the aluminium shelf?
What's the Arc Interrupt Rating on the main battery breaker you're using? Personally I use a Class-T fuse on the main positive terminal before everything else - gives peace of mind.
The breaker has 25kA interruption capability. Better or equal to a class-T fuse. I went through the specs in this video: ua-cam.com/video/O9o3sFn8xNM/v-deo.html
TY
Use commercial grade velcro for bms
Hey Andy, where did you find a copy of the standards? I am going to be doing something similar (only 2x 16s packs) at my place in Sydney
Just google "Best Practise Guide" for battery storage systems.
I know that it's "Low-Tech" but you could use Actual Glass (it's non-combustible too) for the front panel, or if you wanted to get "fancy" you could use a Custom Tempered Glass and even add a smoke, blue or other tint to it.
How do I mount it though? There needs to be a frame designed, manufactured and installed as well for real glass. This all gets a bit too much, I believe just to look inside...
@@OffGridGarageAustralia didn't you ever have a tv cabinet that had those tempered glass doors with the hinges clamped onto them and the magnetic closures?
Sir, in respect to your "clear front viewing port", most regulations speaking of combustible or flammable material have a rating related to it. In your case, the plastic material data sheet should refer to this rating, and as long as it meets or exceeds it, you are good. Especially for a "monitoring window". UL (Underwritters Laboratory) lists a flammability rating of V-0 or such. I am sure your regulations have the same type of rating. Good luck!!
Polycarbonate or glass could work. Acrylic won't.
Thank you James. I'll have a look at this. There is also the Best Practice Guide for Battery Storage Equipment which gives some guidelines around that here in Australia.
Given that you're designing this battery pack with 'tinkering' in mind, would it be worth using a blade switch to be able to isolate the cells from the BMS B-/B+ instead of using a single stud bus bar? That would give you the connection for the short cables that you're seeking, and give you the safety to remove the BMS without using tools on high voltage DC. And is there an option to fit some sort of NTC thermistor in series for that soft start when the cells first connect to the BMS? (Probably not at that current level)
Man no party lights 😭 maybe just break the rules a little and do one shelf with lights 🤣
OK.
Why not go ahead and use your aluminum for the sides but have a hole cut in with a window plexiglass you can still see in you still follow a code and you can put your lights on the inside to light it up so you can see in there
I need to see what's in the regulations for that. I really like the idea of having a transparent front.
Wire the BMS's like a shunts it will make them easier to replace
That single little "buss bar"---it is not on your web site under any heading. Where did you order from?
I haven't added it yet as I wanted to see it before I recommend it to others...
3M VHB tape, industrial velcro (both sides are the same) or Alien Tape all will hold that BMS to any vertical surface. No screws needed. And no, it won't fall off. Cover the whole bottom of the BMS and you won't be able to pull it off without pry tools.
Yeah, the Velcro... same principal as for the Raspi
Don't do that, BMS heats up. I love me some VHB, but all adhesives don't fare well with prolonged heat.
@@mhamma6560 The 3M version of industrial velcro is not like the cloth version. It can do daily heat cycling over 160F for 10 years and still hold like a champ. Similarly real VHB hold skyscraper windows in despite heat cycling. If the BMS is heavy cycling that much, it is going to burn out very quickly. Since there are no factory mounting points on it, I doubt they plan for it to be heat sinked.
@@mhamma6560 No heat in the JK-BMS. It has a max power los of 12W at 200A. I'll pull only 80A max.
@@OffGridGarageAustralia agreed
yay
Why not use a db25 parallel port plug to plug the bms into? VGA only has 15 pins, so not good for 16S system.
DB25 specs:
Operating voltage: 250V AC / DC max.
Current rating: 5 Amps max.
Contact resistance: 20 mΩ max. initial
Insulation resistance: 5000 MΩ min.
Dielectric withstanding voltage: 1000V AC for 1 min
I actually don't need a plug or connector. I have no plans to remove the BMS
Morning Andy, from sunny Central Victoria. Andy what are the electrical rules for these shelves mate, here in Australia? I have a bank of those terminals from the plastic injection control box I picked up.
Google the 'Best Practice Guide for Battery Storage Equipment" and AS/NZS 5139
@@OffGridGarageAustralia Thanks Andy.
Create a bracket with a 3d printer on the back wall and hook it up with a 2-1 inline splice on each side. It can slide in to the bracket without being screwed if it wraps around the sides.
I don't have a 3d printer...
@@OffGridGarageAustralia well you could weld one up pretty easily too…. But 3D printers open up a world of possibilities!
re grind the tap end :)
What rhododendron hybrids do I see in your yard? Are they from Hachmann?
Extend the wires by soldering another wire to your S wires mate. Make a aluminium bracket to too hold it down. Use glass doors on shelve as it is not combustible.
Hi Andy,
thank you for the great videos!
Question: Do you think it is an issue to rotate the eve 280Ah batteries 90° so the small side is facing down and the terminals are facing towards you.
Small side facing down, fixture left and right Terminals on the front. like this: -->|||||||||
From what I heard, they are not designed to be in a side position forever. The electrolyte is a liquid inside (shake them and you can hear it splashing around inside), so they need to be upright most of the time. If this is all true, I'm not sure but makes sense to me...
Hi Andi,
you have 4 Holes in the back for M3 screws, there u can mount this bms.
What diameter did your terminals have ?
Are these holes for mounting it?
The terminals of the cells have M6 but everything else in the shelf has M8
How about a glass view window? That should pass fire and electrical ratings.
Yeah, I would need a frame to hold it all around...
I am not sure if it is a good idea to insert fuses to the balancing lines. If the balancer is measuring only while it is not balancing, then it should be OK. But if not, there could be a tiny measurement error due to the voltage drop. I don't know the resistance of these fuses (5 , 10, 20 mOhms or more?). For a balancing current of 2A the additional voltage drop could be some 10 .. 50 mV already. OK, not that much and all lines have a fuse, so it should cancel out, but maybe not for the first/last cell. It would be interesting to know if the balancer is working as expected with the fuses. After the balancer says that all cells are properly balanced, could you check the voltages with a multimeter please?
Well, if this is a problem, then I should not use the terminal blocks either, this all adds to the resistance.
With the JK BMS its not an issue because each balance cable can be calibrated separately to suit the actual resistance of the individual cable.
Hi,
I would like to ask:
What would be a good price for those 280 Ah Cells at the moment?
Did the price really increased that much?
I cant find a good source that is willing to sell under 94 dollars per cell.
(not including shipping)
Thanks so far!
G'day Andy what model is your victron solar controller there's so many with Bluetooth
I've got the Smartsolar MPPT 150\35 at the moment but will upgrade to the 150\60 next year.
@@OffGridGarageAustralia excellent that's all I need got lithium battery (Solarking) 740w of solarpanel I'm off for more free boating
How big would your battery bank be for this whole project? 300KWH?
I really don't know yet. We're starting with 2 banks and 15kWh each. That will probable do most of my needs.
300kWh is a bit too much and unnecessary for s single house.
@@OffGridGarageAustralia oh wow ok, I was going to build electric off grid campervan for the weekend and day use with 31kwh battery ( 32x 304ah Eve cells) but the weight might be an issue, so I might just use 16 cells instead. What do you think?
@@theoteam4641 Is this for a 12V system?
16x 304Ah weigh 85kg/185lbs
@@OffGridGarageAustralia it’s going to be a 24V system with a 24V 5000VA multiplus II inverter
I love how you think thru everything, very German, or should I say Austrian ;-). PS, why not use real glass ?
Real glass is fine, I guess. Would just need more design and create a frame to hold it in place.
Why didnt you use a replacable inline fuse? Cost I guess, but having to recrimp/solder a new fuse sounds like a nightmare
Method 1: Use 2 or 4 ga butt splice connector with set screws to splice to your two 7 ga wires. Method 2: Use 4 ga compression barrel splice.
Why don't you make a separate bank that's holds fuses? For example those types of fuses found in cars. That way, when they blow, they would be quite easy to replace. I don't know the cost of the fuses that you use, but the car fuses are relatively cheap
These cost $2 per a pack of 100.
I'm really not expecting they will blow at all. It is more form a safety perspective to protect the cables.
Mount the led lights on the back side outside of the cabinet?
maybe heatsink the back of the bms ??