@@walkertrayloryoutube2996 or perhaps Jason Louv and James Randi, whom is now dead, but that should not be an issue for Jason or Damien Echols, they have magic and can bring him back just so he can prove they are frauds. But if they cant bring him back then they prove that they are frauds. .
Wasn't damien echols that satanic child killer, who chased down, tortured & drank the blood of children beforeor after killing them? how sick this society is that they would idolise such a hell bound abomination.
@@vivaldiwilson5449so there is Randi proving that they are frauds by not existing, essentially having an impact, proving he does exist, which suggests…uh oh…
At some point, every day Buddha woke up searching the 6 directions in his mind's eye for people who "a little dust in their eyes", who were ready to hear the Dhamma. What this means to me is that Buddha himself made use of siddhis to help liberate others.
Thank you Steve for creating the opportunity and thank you Dhammarato and Dan for delightful conversation. I see strong bridges being built where wise folks handle differing ideas in such skilful ways. May we all benefit from more teachers coming together. No-one else is doing this as far as I'm aware Steve so please, more more more!
I think that is also what I felt was so heartening and refreshing...to hear two people discuss differences of experiences and opinions with ease and lightness. What a joy! 💕✨💕
I had to re-upload the video because it got stuck in UA-cam processing...so if you made a comment on the previous version please write it again here in the comments section and I will answer during the Premier 🙂
Can we get Bhante Vimalaramsi and Dhammadato in discussion? I’d love to hear those two get into the finer details of meditation practice and dependent orientation. Daniel’s addiction to meditation-induced “profound” experiences is a little sad to watch. That kind of delusion is painful and almost impossible to uproot.
Daniel is trying to argue against demonising the "distractions" and defend his difficult path which he enjoys. Guess these issues must be handled gently and skilfully by meditation teachers. Ven Dhammarato is saying the Buddha has showed the direction to the goal of transcending Samsara, the path/road, don't veer off into the jungle and wilderness (distractions and delusions). Excellent discussion. Thank you very much, Guru Viking
It's funny you think it's the difficult path because I'm positive that for quite a lot if not most people, that kind of cultivation of meditation skills is completely necessary and they're not going to be able to apply dhammarato's teachings effectively at all or even after years. A certain amount of mental stabilization and insight is needed for letting go and the ego needs to be healed well, and at many angles, before we can just let go. I say this as someone who has been at this for 14 years. If people could just let go and be happy they would. Which it does often for me at this point but it's silly to act like that will be even remotely consistent without good training.
What a wonderful conversation, just to hear Daniel and Dhammarato speak so authentically with one another was such a joy that brought so much to the content itself. But I have to say, the closing music coming in with Daniel's closing statement was the perfect cherry on top, an insane amount of joy and peace came over me. Thank you Steve, Daniel and Dhammarato for this blessing.
Absolutely loved this interview! It feels like such a privilege to learn more of both of your views. I just wanted to second what Daniel is referring to in regards to the need for openness and skillful guidance in relation to the magical by expert meditation teachers. Knowing for example how to be compassionate, gentle and kind to any being, including those in the astral/non-ordaniry realms, through normalisation of these types of encounters to me seems like a crucial step in order to start mending the balance between the various realities (or ways to percieve realities if you want). Seeing other meditators mindlessly reacting in fear and aggression with their freshly activated powers on meditation retreats makes me sad.
And I would like to see sort of conversation between Deniel and Shinzen Young, both are heavy weight Dharma teachers of the West. And the topic of course arahantship and definition of enlightenment at general. I guess Shinzen will never recognize an arahant in Daniel as Young have quite straightforward but also quite weird definitions of arahant and definitions from Danial are quite vague. Other topics may be how to recognize internally or externally levels of attainment, may that be some tests, certificate issuances (haha), or I don’t know.
I’ve really grown to love your podcast man. You keep it interesting and ask questions I’d want to ask. Thanks for putting out content like this, it means a lot to me!
Great interview as usual, thanks a lot for that one:) By the way, the intro-and outro music is really brilliant. From the description, it seems that you have even composed it yourself? I wonder if there is a place in the wide internet where one can listen to the full track? It does not seem to be on youtube or may it be that I just cannot find it? Anyways, keep up your fantastic work, it is very much appreciated :)
Very focused discussion on struggling with ones mind, as I see this discussion. Well, that's what you get with meditation, I reckon, going round and round in circles. I believe you must slip past the mind, entirely. So, I reckon I am on a totally separate point at this stage of my own unfoldment. I was looking not to escape this world, but to gain the experience of creation by embracing it, especially if you were aware of where your path was going and what assignment you might have, for me, that is not to be a master or a teacher, yet that is an essential service to this world and thankful I truly am for those of you that are teachers, but I am looking past the void to being involved in creation itself with the creative force. Thank you for your sincerity and your service.
I read daniels book. However I agree with the other guy on the issue of magik powers. It is bunk. Also it would probably be great motivation for the ego to get more control over others
Well, the word "magic" is used in the conversation in a variety of ways, and hopefully, as we went, we clarified at least part of that. It is sometimes used as in "magical thinking", namely beliefs and views. It is sometimes used to mean "experiences that seem un-ordinary" or something like that. It is sometimes used as in "Siddhis", meaning formal experiences of the powers. Hopefully, context will clarify how each of us was using it at the time. Helpful?
This conversation is super interesting, I'd love to see more discussions like this in the future! At least for me, it's super helpful to have a perspective, like Dhammarato, that is based off of the suttas. I find it provides a solid foundation to explore from.
Thanks so much Steve for this interesting and enjoyable exchange. Dialogue is really important to overcome narrow minded and sectarianism which is a big plague in these days. May I propose another dialogue between Dhammarato and Glenn Mullin? That would be a really super interesting exchange between two Buddhist views that have so much misunderstanding between them. And to see these two experienced practitioners, agreeing, disagreeing, joking and laughing would be such a joy! Please think about it! 🙏🙏🙏,
Dhammarato seems to think that there is no fundamental inequality and injustice toward women in buddhist monastic culture (talk about magical thinking). And if there is, that's ok because he's "just there to enjoy the show". Give me a break. I'm sure he figured something out, but it doesn't look like much. A true story from a conference on western buddhism: "An attractive German laywoman, Sylvia Wetzel, took the floor. With a small but discernible gulp she invited His Holiness the Dalai Lama and the assembled throng of luminaries to join her in visualization. 'Please imagine that you are a male coming to a Buddhist center. You see the painting of this beautiful Tara surrounded by sixteen female arhats and you have the possibility to see too Her Holiness the fourteenth Dalai Lama who, in all of her fourteen incarnations, has always chosen a female rebirth,' she began. 'You are surrounded by very high female rinpoches -- beautiful, strong, educated women. Then you see the Bhikshunis coming in, self-confident, outspoken. Then you see the monks coming in behind them -- very shy and timid. You hear about the lineage of lamas of the tradition, who are all female, down to the female Tara in the painting.' 'Remember you are male,' she reminded them, 'and you approach a lama, feeling a little bit insecure and a little bit irritated, and ask "Why are there all these female symbols, female Buddhas?" And she replies, "Don't worry. Men and women are equal. Well, almost. We do have some scriptures which say that a male rebirth is inferior, but isn't this the case? Men do have a more difficult time when all the leaders, spiritually, philosophically and politically are women." 'And then the male student, who is very sincere, goes to another lama, a Mahayanist from the Higher Vehicle School, and says, "I am a man, how can I identify with all these female icons?" And she replies, "You just meditate on Shunyata (Emptiness). In Shunyata no man, no woman, no body, nothing. No problem!" 'So you go to a tantric teacher and say, "All these women and I am a man. I don't know how to relate." And she says, "How wonderful you are, beautiful Daka, you are so useful to us practitioners helping us to raise our kundalini energy. How blessed you are to be a male, to benefit female practitioners on their path to enlightenment." It was outrageous but delivered in such a charming way that everyone, including the Dalai Lama, laughed. 'Now you have given me another angle on the matter,' he said. In effect Sylvia Wetzel had voiced what millions of women down the centuries had felt. In spite of the mirth, the dam holding back more than 2,500 years of spiritual sexism and pent-up female resentment was beginning to burst. Others began to join in. A leading Buddhist teacher and author, American nun Thubten Chodron, told how the subtle prejudice she had met within institutions had undermined her confidence to the point that it was a serious hindrance on the path. 'Even if our pain was acknowledged it would make us feel better,' she declared. Sympathetic male teachers spoke up. 'This is a wonderful challenge for the male -- to see it and accept it,' said a Zen master. American Tibetan Buddhist monk Thubten Pende gave his views: "When I translated the texts concerning the ordination ceremony I got such a shock. It said that even the most senior nun had to sit behind the most novice monk because, although her ordination was superior, the basis of that ordination, her body, was inferior. I thought, "There it is." I'd heard about this belief but I'd never found evidence of it. I had to recite this text at the ceremony. I was embarrassed to say it and ashamed of the institution I was representing. I wondered, "Why doesn't she get up and leave?" I would.' The English Theravadan monk Ven Ahjan Amaso also spoke up: 'Seeing the nuns not receiving the respect given to the monks is very painful. It is like having a spear in your heart,' he said. Then it was Tendzin Palmo's turn, and with all her natural eloquence she told her tale: "When I first came to India I lived in a monastery with 100 monks. I was the only nun,' she said, and paused for several seconds for her words to sink in. 'I think that is why I eventually went to live by myself in a cave.' Everyone got the point. 'The monks were kind, and I had no problems of sexual harassment or troubles of that sort, but of course I was unfortunately within a female form. They actually told me they prayed that in my next life I would have the good fortune to be reborn as a male so that I could join in all the monastery's activities. In the meantime, they said, they didn't hold it too much against me that I had this inferior rebirth in the female form. It wasn't too much my fault.' Seizing her chance, she went on to fire her biggest salvo. An expose on the situation of the Western Sangha, particularly the nuns whom she had befriended in Italy. 'The lamas ordain people and then they are thrown out into the world with no training, preparation, encouragement, support or guidance-and they're expected to keep their vows, do their practice and run dharma centers. This is very hard and I'm surprised that so many of the Western Monastics stay as long as they do. I'm not surprised when they disrobe. They start with so much enthusiasm, with so much pure faith and devotion and gradually their inspiration decreases. They get discouraged and disillusioned and there is no one who helps them. This is true, Your Holiness. It's a very hard situation and it has never happened in the history of Buddhism before. 'In the past the Sangha was firmly established, nurtured and cared for. In the West this is not happening. I truly don't know why. There are a few monasteries, mostly in the Theravada tradition, which are doing well, but for the nuns what is there? There is hardly anything quite frankly. But to end on a higher note, I pray that this life of purity and renunciation which is so rare and precious in the world, that this jewel of the Sangha may not be thrown down into the mud of our indifference and contempt.' It was an impassioned, formidable cry from the heart. When she had finished a great hush fell over the gathering. No one was laughing now. As for Tenzin Gyatso, (the Dalai Lama), the Great Ocean of Wisdom, regarded by his people as an emanation of Chenrezig, the Buddha of Compassion, he was sitting there, head in his hands, silently weeping. After several minutes he looked up, wiped his eyes and said softly, 'You are quite brave'."
1:17:00 very interesting parallels to Neville Goddard’s teachings where repetition is used in several techniques to guide the thoughts back into the right direction until the desired result is achieved. The result can be spiritual as well as material in nature. For example achieve mental peace, download a very specific answer to a question, achieve wisdom, obtain a job.
Dhammarato seems to speak at times as if doing what is "right" is a simple choice seemingly forgetting the process of learning how to disable the autopilot that keeps doing"wrong"
In the suttras buddha advises his disciples to gain super powers but monks these days say don't do it or worry about them. I want all aspects of the dharma powers and all
Desiring magical futures..... 😂.....well played Daniel. I love when people realize they are full of shit. Makes me feel like I am in good company. I tried pretending I didn't want. I was lying. The powers scare the shit out of me sometimes when they become too "real" and that leads me to insight. Trauma bonding with life has been my modality for some time. I like music. Sure, its sensate and perhaps it is ignorant to enjoy music but I can't help but wonder about humanity's natural attraction to harmony. Maybe I will suffer more when the music stops but I am going to enjoy it when I can. I see the powers kind of like reading the sheet music of duality. When I indulge too much in the powers...I begin to feel like nothing is "real" and life seems scripted. The aversion to this gave me some insight. Thanks for defending different paths.
The Buddha discouraged dwelling into siddhis as a practice. If it was a side effect of meditation, it’s to be enjoyed and let go. I experienced many of the phenomena of what these people called magic in the dharma. I didn’t dwell on it, left it where it was and moved on as my teacher instructed me. Also, what is the point of telling the public of your attainment other than to feed your ego? I can understand that telling it to a few close students as teaching tool to encourage them, but publicly declaring it only feeds the ego. It seemed to be pervasive in western practitioners who charges hourly rates or fees for retreat for their teachings.
Inspiration - that it simply can be done in this lifetime. Many Buddhists seem to believe the opposite - that in this day and age it's no longer possible. Examples of Daniel and other people's around him served as a source of inspiration for me and many others. Even if Daniel isn't fully Enlightened, his work on the early stages of Awakening is great. Stream Entry is a very sensible goal for the beginners on the Path. Once that is achieved, there are plenty of other teachers to take you further if you don't like Daniel's approach for some reason. Getting your "foot in the door" of Enlightenment by achieving some stable level of Awakening is essential for the practice oriented people on the Path. One should strive to achieve that as fast as possible - preferably in a wholesome way of course ;-)
Firstly, the Buddha was very open about his attainments and the attainments of his followers. Secondly, Daniel refuses to accept dana and provides his book for free. Thirdly, I think there are pretty obvious arguments you could make for the altruistic value of sharing attainments (as well as arguments against). If you want to appeal to scripture, again it was absolutely done in scripture.
Including that looking at breath Buddha taught 84 thousand techniques of keeping inner-self. Every one must know and adopt at least 12 of them for better result.
Which discussion or talk was Dharmmarato referring to in his opening statement when he said he commended Daniel for taking well and that he wouldn't want to be in his shoes?
VERY INTERESTING TOPIC. BUT THEIR IS NO DIRECT DESCRIPTIONS ON WHAT THE TOPIC OR CONVERSATION IS ABOUT. CONVERSATIONS ARE DRY AND BORING LOL JUST ALOT OF DANCING AROUND THE TOPIC
...I don't think it's too uncommon for "the magic" to be triggered by "a trick," kind of like sucking on the tube when syphoning gas, and then it naturally flows after the "trick."
Don't settle for pretending! That's destroyed the world of magic. All the pretending. You want to wear a clown suit, or you want real magic??? How about enlightenment in 6 weeks, instead of... Never. It's over here, and proven by many in that obscure subreddit. www.reddit.com/r/castaneda/comments/lc1ls0/what_should_i_do_next_again/
Dhammarato- for as much as you talk about letting go, you hold onto views stubbornly. I hear Daniel addressing your points over and over again and you don't budge on your wrong view.
Dhammarato, sounds to me, to be professing that world hunger doesn't exist because he ate today. His reasoning is rigidly attached to believing that the path unfolds for everyone the same way. It's like he can't hear what Daniel Ingram is actually saying.
Hence why Daniel had to keep making his point over and over again and Dhammarato deflected with a story each time and the conversation never went anywhere.
Dhammarato was clear and its in the Sutta, there are two paths the mundane magical path and the Noble path free from the cares and the magical thinking of the world. You are free to choose fretting over world hunger and planning magical fixes or you can be well and happy, the choice is yours.
@@thehiddenyogi8557 Maybe the conversation did not get anywhere was because you were not keeping up, Dan and many others did keep up and can see the two paths. and each one has a choice of the path they take. Some recommend the Noble path
@@vivaldiwilson5449 I guess I'm less interested in the view of someone who is just quoting scripture, than I am in the wisdom that someone has acquired through direct experience. What I saw in this conversation was a man who was not able to be in an authentic, present tense, exchange. Rather it seemed to me, that Dhammarato was invested in presenting his view as though it was an agenda. He often wouldn't respond to the points that Daniel Ingram was making at all. There was an arrogance in his discourse that I didn't respond to at all.
@@vivaldiwilson5449 And then Dan kept saying: "for those who don't have the karma to choose the noble path need a skilled teacher who can guide them".... again it needs repeating. Again his point goes unheard. He literally spent three hours making the same point every time he spoke and it was never acknowledged.
I'm only about 39 minutes in, but pretty disappointed by Dhammarato. From this and other videos, he seems to just repeat the same points over and over and doesn't really listen to the people he's talking to or respond to the points they are making. I've noticed this pattern in some people - they just have a set of opinions and after a while of talking to them you realise that you can't have a normal conversation where you go back and forth and listen to each other. You just have to let them say their opinions and leave it at that.
This pairing is meaningfully asymmetrical I’m my opinion. Dhammarato does not seem to understand what Daniel is saying. He emphasizes more than once their equality as teachers while simultaneously demoting Daniel’s perspective (which is dynamic, wholehearted, thoughtful and immanent) as being the “ordinary” level of dharma. Quite a disappointment to be honest. The teaching here seems to be the wholesome quality of Daniel’s responses to not only not being met in his argument but being subtly disparaged
Just because these things/concepts were seen pathalogically for a moment in behavioral health, it's now understood to be hereditary additionally, meaning just because that’s the tone/language they use to diagnose, doesnt change that treatments, including DBT are holistic in nature, allowing for the reality that *people are supposed to, and do on occasion do this*. I'm not sure why, in any year past 2020, people are still taking this to a magical place like *arahant*. Hallucinations have literally predicted the future, it's called schizophrenia. It happened to Carl Jung, he just didnt want to call it that for some stupid stigma reason. My great grandpa Jack hallucinated all the men he killed, they call it PTSD, everyone accepted it no problem. What is so insulting/difficult/offensive about thinking about it as "I’m neurodivergent and not unique" or "i pushed my body too hard and it's reacting" as opposed to *an arahant*. Why do you have so little faith in biopsychosocial-genetic type models of thinking/science?
If you listen to Daniel's descriptions of each path he attained and what it entailed he gives a pretty straightforward non-magical explanation of what arahatship is
Dhammarato is stuck on the absolute level, doesn't listen or try to understand Daniel and just repeats the same thing. This is a very dogmatic paternal approach, in which all people are considered small and stupid children, unable to understand anything. Of course, it is very easy to brush off and say that these are all questions from the mind from the relative level, but when you recognize your true nature, the boundary between the relative and the absolute disappears. A coin always has two sides. This is also indicated by the Taoist Yin and Yang symbol and the Tibetan Yab-Yum symbol. The absolute transcends and includes the relative, rather than surpassing and denying it. It is impossible to separate rays from the sun, waves from the ocean, heat from fire or moisture from water. "if you cannot weep with a person who is crying, there is no kensho" Yamada Koun Magic and the ability to see subtle plans are the same natural human abilities as running, jumping or singing. If a person cannot possess these abilities without attachment, these are his personal problems and this is not a reason to devalue them. I never aspired to any supernatural abilities, but I encountered visions of the subtle plane spontaneously during contemplation. Believe me, this experience can frighten and disorient, and there is very little adequate information that can explain what is happening, or it is deliberately hidden and released bit by bit. I am very glad that there are people like Daniel who are not afraid to raise such issues and inform people. Bravo Daniel, you are doing exactly what our world needs right now. And thank you Viking, for your podcasts and your masterful questions that you ask the participants in the conversation. With your questions you literally voice my thoughts, this is exactly what I would like to ask.
My thoughts exactly. May I ask what you can share so that I can have something of a magical experience? I have been meditating for 14 years and that side seems to allude me a bit.
2:33:20 dhammarato: "let me take a moment to shit on your statement about how women are being disempowered even though its obvious to anyone who doesn't take the suffering of women to be a personal insult to their masculinity anf existence and then say 'I dont want to talk about this' after finishing my long rant *snort*"
I'm Daniel Lawton, an old student of Carols Castaneda. We do the same type of magic as Ingram, by forcing off our internal dialogue, which is very similar to meditation. It's well known in our little community that there's only Ingram, Shinzen, and our group, doing real magic these days. And you will ALWAYS be attacked for it. That's because the rest of the communities are pretending, and don't like that to become obvious. By the way, this path leads to changing worlds, breaking the laws of physics, and other amazing things you wouldn't believe. We have multiple people in our group doing those things now. Ingram is a "comrade". We watch videos about him anytime someone finds a new one.
@@vivaldiwilson5449 Nonsense. I posted a longer reply, but it didn't make it here. Most Castaneda fans are far left wing. Your hatred and anger is showing, which means, you don't know anything at all about magic. People who actually have magic in their life, are not full of delusional hatred.
@@daniellawton4336 Well there is the mad scientist who works hard to prove his theory, there is the mad bully who works hard to prove his self worth, and there is the mad magician who works hard to prove his beliefs, And then there is the mad monk who is satisfied, content not trying to prove any thing, no place to go, nothing to do and nothing to prove. , en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_prizes_for_evidence_of_the_paranormal
@@vivaldiwilson5449 Come over here and get magic. Multiple people doing exactly what Castaneda taught us. Or remain blind to the truth. There's also a debunking of the debunkers over there. He didn't get debunked, he got attacked the same way Ingram did. www.reddit.com/r/castaneda Be sure to look at the wiki on the side, and find the "Illustrated" section. We're doing the same as Ingram, although 10X more because of the sorcery connection. It's very old Olmec sorcery. Or go ahead and keep attacking magic to make yourself feel good. But enlightenment feels a lot better than anger. Be sure to find the debunking the debunkers entry, you'll be surprised to see the were all well known bad guys.
I always feel to roll me eyes when somebody tries to discredit somebody else by accusing them of sympathies to Trump. As if you have to be a democrat to be spiritual. As if spirituality has a political stance. *rolls eyes*
A complete novice to deeper dharma etc it strikes me that the paradox is not repressing anger that is apparent saintly-ness and then projecting it out onto others At some stage not being angry is seen as a criteria to me this IS very suspect ! These kind of people i call false or pseudo enlightened , whereas Nisagadata occasionally did become angry , Jesus obvioulsy did , yes it is transformation of this energy ultimately BUT nobody never becomes angry this is aa ridiculous statement ! For me i seems a realistic goal is control and then transformation NOT "neurotic" denial BUT who am I to argue
Imagine how radical this sort of enlightenment is such that you haven't had the fortunate karma to even come across one of these people and (presumably being the skeptic you are) are therefore convinced they don't exist. You're not that bad off though. Believe it or not, I have come across people that have such bad karma they don't believe in happiness, at all, let alone that someone could have so much of it that they can't be bothered to get angry. Someone who is freed from anger and sensual desire is called an Anagami in Buddhism. People who become angry could, at best, be Sakadagami according to the Buddha's way of categorizing the different degrees to which beings can be awakened. Sensual craving (desire) and ill will (anger) are problems an Anagami doesn't have anymore. So, on top of not getting angry an Anagami is also highly unlikely to overeat. There are actually 4 categories of enlightened beings: In regards to Daniel and Dammaratto recognizing each other, they were recognizing that each other had right view / were noble ones / had entered the stream, which is the first stage of awakening called Stream-entry. In regards to Nisargadatta, this was strongly implied through a story his wife told and I believe is included in "I Am That" (but I could be mistaken). According to her, he explained that his craving for food is what kept him in samsara (from being fully realized). So, the best he could be is Sakadagami, which is the second stage of awakening. In regards to Jesus, he wanted to get reborn in heaven. Again, someone that seeks rebirth in heaven at best could be Anagami according to Buddha's way of categorizing enlightened beings, which is the third stage of awakening. At the fourth stage, a being is fully realized and no longer seeks any rebirth at all. That is called an Arahant.
you wanted them to fight for your personal entertainment? Glad you were so disappointed. and it is ok that you are a novice, but you dont have to make a point of it. SO sad you want to see friends fight for your satisfaction.
Amazing discussion! Thank you all so much for the opportunity of listening to it!
Thank you guys! May all beings be free from suffering
I’d love to see a conversation between Daniel Ingram and Damien Echols next.
And/or Jason Louv
@@walkertrayloryoutube2996 or perhaps Jason Louv and James Randi, whom is now dead, but that should not be an issue for Jason or Damien Echols, they have magic and can bring him back just so he can prove they are frauds. But if they cant bring him back then they prove that they are frauds. .
Wasn't damien echols that satanic child killer, who chased down, tortured & drank the blood of children beforeor after killing them? how sick this society is that they would idolise such a hell bound abomination.
Or Lon Milo Duquette
@@vivaldiwilson5449so there is Randi proving that they are frauds by not existing, essentially having an impact, proving he does exist, which
suggests…uh oh…
At some point, every day Buddha woke up searching the 6 directions in his mind's eye for people who "a little dust in their eyes", who were ready to hear the Dhamma. What this means to me is that Buddha himself made use of siddhis to help liberate others.
Thank you Steve for creating the opportunity and thank you Dhammarato and Dan for delightful conversation. I see strong bridges being built where wise folks handle differing ideas in such skilful ways. May we all benefit from more teachers coming together. No-one else is doing this as far as I'm aware Steve so please, more more more!
I think that is also what I felt was so heartening and refreshing...to hear two people discuss differences of experiences and opinions with ease and lightness. What a joy! 💕✨💕
Thank you for bringing these mind-blowing issues to the rest of us.
I had to re-upload the video because it got stuck in UA-cam processing...so if you made a comment on the previous version please write it again here in the comments section and I will answer during the Premier 🙂
Can we get Bhante Vimalaramsi and Dhammadato in discussion? I’d love to hear those two get into the finer details of meditation practice and dependent orientation. Daniel’s addiction to meditation-induced “profound” experiences is a little sad to watch. That kind of delusion is painful and almost impossible to uproot.
Daniel is trying to argue against demonising the "distractions" and defend his difficult path which he enjoys. Guess these issues must be handled gently and skilfully by meditation teachers. Ven Dhammarato is saying the Buddha has showed the direction to the goal of transcending Samsara, the path/road, don't veer off into the jungle and wilderness (distractions and delusions). Excellent discussion. Thank you very much, Guru Viking
It's funny you think it's the difficult path because I'm positive that for quite a lot if not most people, that kind of cultivation of meditation skills is completely necessary and they're not going to be able to apply dhammarato's teachings effectively at all or even after years. A certain amount of mental stabilization and insight is needed for letting go and the ego needs to be healed well, and at many angles, before we can just let go. I say this as someone who has been at this for 14 years. If people could just let go and be happy they would. Which it does often for me at this point but it's silly to act like that will be even remotely consistent without good training.
What a wonderful conversation, just to hear Daniel and Dhammarato speak so authentically with one another was such a joy that brought so much to the content itself. But I have to say, the closing music coming in with Daniel's closing statement was the perfect cherry on top, an insane amount of joy and peace came over me. Thank you Steve, Daniel and Dhammarato for this blessing.
Absolutely loved this interview! It feels like such a privilege to learn more of both of your views. I just wanted to second what Daniel is referring to in regards to the need for openness and skillful guidance in relation to the magical by expert meditation teachers. Knowing for example how to be compassionate, gentle and kind to any being, including those in the astral/non-ordaniry realms, through normalisation of these types of encounters to me seems like a crucial step in order to start mending the balance between the various realities (or ways to percieve realities if you want). Seeing other meditators mindlessly reacting in fear and aggression with their freshly activated powers on meditation retreats makes me sad.
And I would like to see sort of conversation between Deniel and Shinzen Young, both are heavy weight Dharma teachers of the West. And the topic of course arahantship and definition of enlightenment at general. I guess Shinzen will never recognize an arahant in Daniel as Young have quite straightforward but also quite weird definitions of arahant and definitions from Danial are quite vague. Other topics may be how to recognize internally or externally levels of attainment, may that be some tests, certificate issuances (haha), or I don’t know.
you picked the right guests here! 👍
This was a wonderful dialog, big thank you to all of you! 💕
I’ve really grown to love your podcast man. You keep it interesting and ask questions I’d want to ask. Thanks for putting out content like this, it means a lot to me!
The beauty of Dhama Realisation ? Huh Whaaat??? You are really unbelievable !
Excellent dialogue. It will feed my conversation with my dharma buddies tmrw morning. You are rockin it. Thank you so much! ✨💕
Great interview as usual, thanks a lot for that one:)
By the way, the intro-and outro music is really brilliant.
From the description, it seems that you have even composed it yourself?
I wonder if there is a place in the wide internet where one can listen to the full track?
It does not seem to be on youtube or may it be that I just cannot find it?
Anyways, keep up your fantastic work, it is very much appreciated :)
Agreed! I couldn’t find it on Spotify either
Very focused discussion on struggling with ones mind, as I see this discussion. Well, that's what you get with meditation, I reckon, going round and round in circles. I believe you must slip past the mind, entirely. So, I reckon I am on a totally separate point at this stage of my own unfoldment. I was looking not to escape this world, but to gain the experience of creation by embracing it, especially if you were aware of where your path was going and what assignment you might have, for me, that is not to be a master or a teacher, yet that is an essential service to this world and thankful I truly am for those of you that are teachers, but I am looking past the void to being involved in creation itself with the creative force. Thank you for your sincerity and your service.
Daniel Ingram sheds some light! ✨✨
I read daniels book. However I agree with the other guy on the issue of magik powers. It is bunk. Also it would probably be great motivation for the ego to get more control over others
As if you can't just be mindful of that fact and indulge in the powers skillfully
He didn’t say the powers are bunk. He said don’t get distracted by them.
Two of my favorite teachers.
Epic.
I second what Dhammarato is saying. It's way more difficult than one would initially expect to find good Wats to visit and practice.
tremendously insightful, I have to say!
How amazing was this talk?
I'd appreciate a clarification of terms here: By "magic" do you mean "Siddhis", in traditional terms?
Well, the word "magic" is used in the conversation in a variety of ways, and hopefully, as we went, we clarified at least part of that. It is sometimes used as in "magical thinking", namely beliefs and views. It is sometimes used to mean "experiences that seem un-ordinary" or something like that. It is sometimes used as in "Siddhis", meaning formal experiences of the powers. Hopefully, context will clarify how each of us was using it at the time. Helpful?
This conversation is super interesting, I'd love to see more discussions like this in the future! At least for me, it's super helpful to have a perspective, like Dhammarato, that is based off of the suttas. I find it provides a solid foundation to explore from.
Thank you hosting this great conversation!
really great interview. Though Daniel was an egomaniac but he is really smart and awakened.
Thanks so much Steve for this interesting and enjoyable exchange. Dialogue is really important to overcome narrow minded and sectarianism which is a big plague in these days. May I propose another dialogue between Dhammarato and Glenn Mullin? That would be a really super interesting exchange between two Buddhist views that have so much misunderstanding between them. And to see these two experienced practitioners, agreeing, disagreeing, joking and laughing would be such a joy! Please think about it! 🙏🙏🙏,
Dhammarato seems to think that there is no fundamental inequality and injustice toward women in buddhist monastic culture (talk about magical thinking). And if there is, that's ok because he's "just there to enjoy the show". Give me a break. I'm sure he figured something out, but it doesn't look like much.
A true story from a conference on western buddhism:
"An attractive German laywoman, Sylvia Wetzel, took the floor. With a small but discernible gulp she invited His Holiness the Dalai Lama and the assembled throng of luminaries to join her in visualization. 'Please imagine that you are a male coming to a Buddhist center. You see the painting of this beautiful Tara surrounded by sixteen female arhats and you have the possibility to see too Her Holiness the fourteenth Dalai Lama who, in all of her fourteen incarnations, has always chosen a female rebirth,' she began.
'You are surrounded by very high female rinpoches -- beautiful, strong, educated women. Then you see the Bhikshunis coming in, self-confident, outspoken. Then you see the monks coming in behind them -- very shy and timid. You hear about the lineage of lamas of the tradition, who are all female, down to the female Tara in the painting.'
'Remember you are male,' she reminded them, 'and you approach a lama, feeling a little bit insecure and a little bit irritated, and ask "Why are there all these female symbols, female Buddhas?" And she replies, "Don't worry. Men and women are equal. Well, almost. We do have some scriptures which say that a male rebirth is inferior, but isn't this the case? Men do have a more difficult time when all the leaders, spiritually, philosophically and politically are women."
'And then the male student, who is very sincere, goes to another lama, a Mahayanist from the Higher Vehicle School, and says, "I am a man, how can I identify with all these female icons?" And she replies, "You just meditate on Shunyata (Emptiness). In Shunyata no man, no woman, no body, nothing. No problem!"
'So you go to a tantric teacher and say, "All these women and I am a man. I don't know how to relate." And she says, "How wonderful you are, beautiful Daka, you are so useful to us practitioners helping us to raise our kundalini energy. How blessed you are to be a male, to benefit female practitioners on their path to enlightenment."
It was outrageous but delivered in such a charming way that everyone, including the Dalai Lama, laughed. 'Now you have given me another angle on the matter,' he said. In effect Sylvia Wetzel had voiced what millions of women down the centuries had felt. In spite of the mirth, the dam holding back more than 2,500 years of spiritual sexism and pent-up female resentment was beginning to burst.
Others began to join in. A leading Buddhist teacher and author, American nun Thubten Chodron, told how the subtle prejudice she had met within institutions had undermined her confidence to the point that it was a serious hindrance on the path. 'Even if our pain was acknowledged it would make us feel better,' she declared.
Sympathetic male teachers spoke up. 'This is a wonderful challenge for the male -- to see it and accept it,' said a Zen master.
American Tibetan Buddhist monk Thubten Pende gave his views: "When I translated the texts concerning the ordination ceremony I got such a shock. It said that even the most senior nun had to sit behind the most novice monk because, although her ordination was superior, the basis of that ordination, her body, was inferior. I thought, "There it is." I'd heard about this belief but I'd never found evidence of it. I had to recite this text at the ceremony. I was embarrassed to say it and ashamed of the institution I was representing. I wondered, "Why doesn't she get up and leave?" I would.'
The English Theravadan monk Ven Ahjan Amaso also spoke up: 'Seeing the nuns not receiving the respect given to the monks is very painful. It is like having a spear in your heart,' he said.
Then it was Tendzin Palmo's turn, and with all her natural eloquence she told her tale: "When I first came to India I lived in a monastery with 100 monks. I was the only nun,' she said, and paused for several seconds for her words to sink in. 'I think that is why I eventually went to live by myself in a cave.' Everyone got the point. 'The monks were kind, and I had no problems of sexual harassment or troubles of that sort, but of course I was unfortunately within a female form. They actually told me they prayed that in my next life I would have the good fortune to be reborn as a male so that I could join in all the monastery's activities. In the meantime, they said, they didn't hold it too much against me that I had this inferior rebirth in the female form. It wasn't too much my fault.'
Seizing her chance, she went on to fire her biggest salvo. An expose on the situation of the Western Sangha, particularly the nuns whom she had befriended in Italy. 'The lamas ordain people and then they are thrown out into the world with no training, preparation, encouragement, support or guidance-and they're expected to keep their vows, do their practice and run dharma centers. This is very hard and I'm surprised that so many of the Western Monastics stay as long as they do. I'm not surprised when they disrobe. They start with so much enthusiasm, with so much pure faith and devotion and gradually their inspiration decreases. They get discouraged and disillusioned and there is no one who helps them. This is true, Your Holiness. It's a very hard situation and it has never happened in the history of Buddhism before.
'In the past the Sangha was firmly established, nurtured and cared for. In the West this is not happening. I truly don't know why. There are a few monasteries, mostly in the Theravada tradition, which are doing well, but for the nuns what is there?
There is hardly anything quite frankly. But to end on a higher note, I pray that this life of purity and renunciation which is so rare and precious in the world, that this jewel of the Sangha may not be thrown down into the mud of our indifference and contempt.'
It was an impassioned, formidable cry from the heart.
When she had finished a great hush fell over the gathering. No one was laughing now. As for Tenzin Gyatso, (the Dalai Lama), the Great Ocean of Wisdom, regarded by his people as an emanation of Chenrezig, the Buddha of Compassion, he was sitting there, head in his hands, silently weeping. After several minutes he looked up, wiped his eyes and said softly, 'You are quite brave'."
Well written. Thank you
This was just wonderful. Thanks for sharing.
🙏🏾💖🌸💐, Love u Dhammarato, great job!
is the video slowed down ? it seems everyone's voices are extra low 🤔
Yes, likely an artifact of 25fps to 24fps or 48kHz to 44.1kHz conversion gone wrong
I noticed it too, I actually kinda like it. A fun little change.
1:17:00 very interesting parallels to Neville Goddard’s teachings where repetition is used in several techniques to guide the thoughts back into the right direction until the desired result is achieved. The result can be spiritual as well as material in nature. For example achieve mental peace, download a very specific answer to a question, achieve wisdom, obtain a job.
Wonderful. Thank you all.
Dhammarato seems to speak at times as if doing what is "right" is a simple choice seemingly forgetting the process of learning how to disable the autopilot that keeps doing"wrong"
Lol yup. Like we can just say "no" and all negativity is gone.
Neither of these two personalities inspire much confidence in me.
Magic can be a tool for letting go of that which limits you and opening to that which you are not yet able to perceive.
In the suttras buddha advises his disciples to gain super powers but monks these days say don't do it or worry about them. I want all aspects of the dharma powers and all
Desiring magical futures..... 😂.....well played Daniel. I love when people realize they are full of shit. Makes me feel like I am in good company. I tried pretending I didn't want. I was lying. The powers scare the shit out of me sometimes when they become too "real" and that leads me to insight. Trauma bonding with life has been my modality for some time. I like music. Sure, its sensate and perhaps it is ignorant to enjoy music but I can't help but wonder about humanity's natural attraction to harmony. Maybe I will suffer more when the music stops but I am going to enjoy it when I can. I see the powers kind of like reading the sheet music of duality. When I indulge too much in the powers...I begin to feel like nothing is "real" and life seems scripted. The aversion to this gave me some insight. Thanks for defending different paths.
A very insightful conversation.
The Buddha discouraged dwelling into siddhis as a practice. If it was a side effect of meditation, it’s to be enjoyed and let go. I experienced many of the phenomena of what these people called magic in the dharma. I didn’t dwell on it, left it where it was and moved on as my teacher instructed me. Also, what is the point of telling the public of your attainment other than to feed your ego? I can understand that telling it to a few close students as teaching tool to encourage them, but publicly declaring it only feeds the ego. It seemed to be pervasive in western practitioners who charges hourly rates or fees for retreat for their teachings.
Inspiration - that it simply can be done in this lifetime. Many Buddhists seem to believe the opposite - that in this day and age it's no longer possible. Examples of Daniel and other people's around him served as a source of inspiration for me and many others.
Even if Daniel isn't fully Enlightened, his work on the early stages of Awakening is great. Stream Entry is a very sensible goal for the beginners on the Path. Once that is achieved, there are plenty of other teachers to take you further if you don't like Daniel's approach for some reason. Getting your "foot in the door" of Enlightenment by achieving some stable level of Awakening is essential for the practice oriented people on the Path. One should strive to achieve that as fast as possible - preferably in a wholesome way of course ;-)
Firstly, the Buddha was very open about his attainments and the attainments of his followers.
Secondly, Daniel refuses to accept dana and provides his book for free.
Thirdly, I think there are pretty obvious arguments you could make for the altruistic value of sharing attainments (as well as arguments against). If you want to appeal to scripture, again it was absolutely done in scripture.
Including that looking at breath Buddha taught 84 thousand techniques of keeping inner-self. Every one must know and adopt at least 12 of them for better result.
MN 117 explicitly says the mundane right practises are not factors of the Noble Path. The Noble Path has no prerequisite of magic. .
Right thought, right action, right words. This is Zoroastrianism, did you know that?
really nice dialogue format! 🎤
Which discussion or talk was Dharmmarato referring to in his opening statement when he said he commended Daniel for taking well and that he wouldn't want to be in his shoes?
Recent guru viking interviews where Daniel responds to an attack from Bhikku Analayao
Amazing dialogue
VERY INTERESTING TOPIC. BUT THEIR IS NO DIRECT DESCRIPTIONS ON WHAT THE TOPIC OR CONVERSATION IS ABOUT. CONVERSATIONS ARE DRY AND BORING LOL JUST ALOT OF DANCING AROUND THE TOPIC
That was deep. Thank you guys.
I’d love to see a conversation between Daniel Ingram and Ajahn Thanissaro about Noble path and fruit attainments. Watch out Daniel....
you are a real dedicated person Guru!
...I don't think it's too uncommon for "the magic" to be triggered by "a trick," kind of like sucking on the tube when syphoning gas, and then it naturally flows after the "trick."
really learned something about buddhism
nice discussion! 👍
Dhammarato makes me want to shave my head and be a monk! With his deep wise drawl!
Don't settle for pretending! That's destroyed the world of magic. All the pretending. You want to wear a clown suit, or you want real magic??? How about enlightenment in 6 weeks, instead of... Never. It's over here, and proven by many in that obscure subreddit. www.reddit.com/r/castaneda/comments/lc1ls0/what_should_i_do_next_again/
Dhammarato- for as much as you talk about letting go, you hold onto views stubbornly. I hear Daniel addressing your points over and over again and you don't budge on your wrong view.
I really liked this one :)
Daniel your laughter is so natural and sincere i really like it haha :)
Dhammarato, sounds to me, to be professing that world hunger doesn't exist because he ate today. His reasoning is rigidly attached to believing that the path unfolds for everyone the same way. It's like he can't hear what Daniel Ingram is actually saying.
Hence why Daniel had to keep making his point over and over again and Dhammarato deflected with a story each time and the conversation never went anywhere.
Dhammarato was clear and its in the Sutta, there are two paths the mundane magical path and the Noble path free from the cares and the magical thinking of the world. You are free to choose fretting over world hunger and planning magical fixes or you can be well and happy, the choice is yours.
@@thehiddenyogi8557 Maybe the conversation did not get anywhere was because you were not keeping up, Dan and many others did keep up and can see the two paths. and each one has a choice of the path they take. Some recommend the Noble path
@@vivaldiwilson5449 I guess I'm less interested in the view of someone who is just quoting scripture, than I am in the wisdom that someone has acquired through direct experience. What I saw in this conversation was a man who was not able to be in an authentic, present tense, exchange. Rather it seemed to me, that Dhammarato was invested in presenting his view as though it was an agenda. He often wouldn't respond to the points that Daniel Ingram was making at all. There was an arrogance in his discourse that I didn't respond to at all.
@@vivaldiwilson5449 And then Dan kept saying: "for those who don't have the karma to choose the noble path need a skilled teacher who can guide them".... again it needs repeating. Again his point goes unheard. He literally spent three hours making the same point every time he spoke and it was never acknowledged.
Interesting
Daniel ingram and shinzen young next!!!
If danial was a martial arts teacher he would definately be teaching death punches wearing a gi claiming a red belt, love the debate thou
I'm only about 39 minutes in, but pretty disappointed by Dhammarato. From this and other videos, he seems to just repeat the same points over and over and doesn't really listen to the people he's talking to or respond to the points they are making. I've noticed this pattern in some people - they just have a set of opinions and after a while of talking to them you realise that you can't have a normal conversation where you go back and forth and listen to each other. You just have to let them say their opinions and leave it at that.
Agreed. Makes rewatching these videos a bit irritating when I'm trying to enjoy the content.
Powers are not rare at all. A true muggle is the thing that doesn't exist.
❤️
This pairing is meaningfully asymmetrical I’m my opinion. Dhammarato does not seem to understand what Daniel is saying. He emphasizes more than once their equality as teachers while simultaneously demoting Daniel’s perspective (which is dynamic, wholehearted, thoughtful and immanent) as being the “ordinary” level of dharma. Quite a disappointment to be honest. The teaching here seems to be the wholesome quality of Daniel’s responses to not only not being met in his argument but being subtly disparaged
Yup!
Just because these things/concepts were seen pathalogically for a moment in behavioral health, it's now understood to be hereditary additionally, meaning just because that’s the tone/language they use to diagnose, doesnt change that treatments, including DBT are holistic in nature, allowing for the reality that *people are supposed to, and do on occasion do this*. I'm not sure why, in any year past 2020, people are still taking this to a magical place like *arahant*. Hallucinations have literally predicted the future, it's called schizophrenia. It happened to Carl Jung, he just didnt want to call it that for some stupid stigma reason. My great grandpa Jack hallucinated all the men he killed, they call it PTSD, everyone accepted it no problem. What is so insulting/difficult/offensive about thinking about it as "I’m neurodivergent and not unique" or "i pushed my body too hard and it's reacting" as opposed to *an arahant*. Why do you have so little faith in biopsychosocial-genetic type models of thinking/science?
If you listen to Daniel's descriptions of each path he attained and what it entailed he gives a pretty straightforward non-magical explanation of what arahatship is
there is magic in the dharma for sure!
Bring David Blaine on next!
Nobel, not Nobel...
It's labels
Words
Empty words
your room looks like viking ship haha
wish I knew so much about buddhism as you do 🤟
I wish I knew less than all buddhist teachers combined
50:08 aw that's not true
Dhammarato is stuck on the absolute level, doesn't listen or try to understand Daniel and just repeats the same thing.
This is a very dogmatic paternal approach, in which all people are considered small and stupid children, unable to understand anything.
Of course, it is very easy to brush off and say that these are all questions from the mind from the relative level, but when you recognize your true nature, the boundary between the relative and the absolute disappears.
A coin always has two sides. This is also indicated by the Taoist Yin and Yang symbol and the Tibetan Yab-Yum symbol.
The absolute transcends and includes the relative, rather than surpassing and denying it.
It is impossible to separate rays from the sun, waves from the ocean, heat from fire or moisture from water.
"if you cannot weep with a person who is crying, there is no kensho" Yamada Koun
Magic and the ability to see subtle plans are the same natural human abilities as running, jumping or singing.
If a person cannot possess these abilities without attachment, these are his personal problems and this is not a reason to devalue them.
I never aspired to any supernatural abilities, but I encountered visions of the subtle plane spontaneously during contemplation.
Believe me, this experience can frighten and disorient, and there is very little adequate information that can explain what is happening, or it is deliberately hidden and released bit by bit.
I am very glad that there are people like Daniel who are not afraid to raise such issues and inform people.
Bravo Daniel, you are doing exactly what our world needs right now.
And thank you Viking, for your podcasts and your masterful questions that you ask the participants in the conversation.
With your questions you literally voice my thoughts, this is exactly what I would like to ask.
My thoughts exactly. May I ask what you can share so that I can have something of a magical experience? I have been meditating for 14 years and that side seems to allude me a bit.
2:33:20 dhammarato: "let me take a moment to shit on your statement about how women are being disempowered even though its obvious to anyone who doesn't take the suffering of women to be a personal insult to their masculinity anf existence and then say 'I dont want to talk about this' after finishing my long rant *snort*"
This was painful. Dhammarato doesn't seem to know how to have a conversation.
Thank you for your kindness
I would tend to agree, based on my scant interactions with the windbag.
I'm Daniel Lawton, an old student of Carols Castaneda. We do the same type of magic as Ingram, by forcing off our internal dialogue, which is very similar to meditation. It's well known in our little community that there's only Ingram, Shinzen, and our group, doing real magic these days. And you will ALWAYS be attacked for it. That's because the rest of the communities are pretending, and don't like that to become obvious. By the way, this path leads to changing worlds, breaking the laws of physics, and other amazing things you wouldn't believe. We have multiple people in our group doing those things now. Ingram is a "comrade". We watch videos about him anytime someone finds a new one.
Castaneda was discredited and debunked years ago, now his old followers are into Trump and his magic.
@@vivaldiwilson5449 Nonsense. I posted a longer reply, but it didn't make it here. Most Castaneda fans are far left wing. Your hatred and anger is showing, which means, you don't know anything at all about magic. People who actually have magic in their life, are not full of delusional hatred.
@@daniellawton4336 Well there is the mad scientist who works hard to prove his theory, there is the mad bully who works hard to prove his self worth, and there is the mad magician who works hard to prove his beliefs, And then there is the mad monk who is satisfied, content not trying to prove any thing, no place to go, nothing to do and nothing to prove. ,
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_prizes_for_evidence_of_the_paranormal
@@vivaldiwilson5449 Come over here and get magic. Multiple people doing exactly what Castaneda taught us. Or remain blind to the truth. There's also a debunking of the debunkers over there. He didn't get debunked, he got attacked the same way Ingram did. www.reddit.com/r/castaneda Be sure to look at the wiki on the side, and find the "Illustrated" section. We're doing the same as Ingram, although 10X more because of the sorcery connection. It's very old Olmec sorcery. Or go ahead and keep attacking magic to make yourself feel good. But enlightenment feels a lot better than anger. Be sure to find the debunking the debunkers entry, you'll be surprised to see the were all well known bad guys.
I always feel to roll me eyes when somebody tries to discredit somebody else by accusing them of sympathies to Trump. As if you have to be a democrat to be spiritual. As if spirituality has a political stance. *rolls eyes*
Dhammarato did not get magical experiences despite searching for it for so long therefore there is no such thing as magick!
A complete novice to deeper dharma etc it strikes me that the paradox is not repressing anger that is apparent saintly-ness and then projecting it out onto others At some stage not being angry is seen as a criteria to me this IS very suspect !
These kind of people i call false or pseudo enlightened , whereas Nisagadata occasionally did become angry , Jesus obvioulsy did , yes it is transformation of this energy ultimately BUT nobody never becomes angry this is aa ridiculous statement !
For me i seems a realistic goal is control and then transformation NOT "neurotic" denial BUT who am I to argue
Imagine how radical this sort of enlightenment is such that you haven't had the fortunate karma to even come across one of these people and (presumably being the skeptic you are) are therefore convinced they don't exist. You're not that bad off though. Believe it or not, I have come across people that have such bad karma they don't believe in happiness, at all, let alone that someone could have so much of it that they can't be bothered to get angry.
Someone who is freed from anger and sensual desire is called an Anagami in Buddhism. People who become angry could, at best, be Sakadagami according to the Buddha's way of categorizing the different degrees to which beings can be awakened. Sensual craving (desire) and ill will (anger) are problems an Anagami doesn't have anymore. So, on top of not getting angry an Anagami is also highly unlikely to overeat.
There are actually 4 categories of enlightened beings:
In regards to Daniel and Dammaratto recognizing each other, they were recognizing that each other had right view / were noble ones / had entered the stream, which is the first stage of awakening called Stream-entry.
In regards to Nisargadatta, this was strongly implied through a story his wife told and I believe is included in "I Am That" (but I could be mistaken). According to her, he explained that his craving for food is what kept him in samsara (from being fully realized). So, the best he could be is Sakadagami, which is the second stage of awakening.
In regards to Jesus, he wanted to get reborn in heaven. Again, someone that seeks rebirth in heaven at best could be Anagami according to Buddha's way of categorizing enlightened beings, which is the third stage of awakening.
At the fourth stage, a being is fully realized and no longer seeks any rebirth at all. That is called an Arahant.
you wanted them to fight for your personal entertainment? Glad you were so disappointed. and it is ok that you are a novice, but you dont have to make a point of it. SO sad you want to see friends fight for your satisfaction.
@@PeaceSC2 yuk, food is repulsive.
this is real insightful Guru Viking!