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Comparing Rodinal & Kodak HC110 - Which Produces Better Grain?
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- Опубліковано 1 гру 2023
- I have been a little obsessed with grain and gritty images lately. I love the texture and grit of darkroom prints when they fit the vision and subject.
So this has had me a bit on the hunt for the best film & developer combination to create very gritty yet pleasing grain in my images when I intend to.
In this test, I was trying to see the differences in grain that Rodinal and Kodak HC110 will produce. I went with a pretty grainy film that I generally love the look of in this regard. Fomapan 400.
Kodak Hc110 has been a developer I use quite a bit and occasionally use Rodinal as well. I have never done a direct comparison so was interested to see the differences in film grain between the two!
I have come across other Hc110 vs. Rodinal videos but none focused on the darkroom and specifically the film grain. There were also just to many variables in the film tests so wanted to cut that down to a minimum.
Hope you enjoy the developer and film test!
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Relevant Links //
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Kodak HC110 - amzn.to/3T1t9gj
Rodinal - adorama.rfvk.net/QyxaRP
Fomapan 400 - amzn.to/47TJiZw
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Go to black and white film photography setup (Large Format) //
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Linhof Master Technika - ebay.us/fsyiPo
Nikon Nikkor SW 90mm f/4.5 - ebay.us/sPWsqz
Nikon nikkor w 150mm f5.6 - ebay.us/sPWsqz
schneider 210mm f5.6 - ebay.us/22sOfk
4x5 Film Holders - ebay.us/7bHjXU
Great belt case for 4x5 film holders - amzn.to/3ZWxXnG
Kodak Tri-X black and white film (Favorite large format black and white film)- amzn.to/3T1jrZr
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Go to black and white film photography setup (medium Format) //
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Hasselblad 500 CM - ebay.us/I76k2J
120mm CF f-4 Makro - ebay.us/gX4UVm
80mm CF 2.8 - ebay.us/BRBAuT
50mm CFE f-4 - ebay.us/rcJhiz
Go to black and white film - adorama.rfvk.net/9bgvQ
Favorite Gear Back Pack - amzn.to/3c8iFET
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Go to film photography setup (35mm) //
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Brevite Jumper Back Pack - amzn.to/3Je22JU
Canon F1 - ebay.us/jn1xcM
Canon FD 35mm F2 - ebay.us/fgJNVE
Canon FD 50mm 1.2L - ebay.us/8D8R6E
Rangefinder - Canonet QL17 Giii - ebay.us/Tb17Np
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Yes, great video about grain indeed.
I had a commercial lab with both color and B/W.
Back in the time condenser enlargers were the norm for the amateur and for the pro labs we used both with diffused light carrying most of the load.
Graded paper was normal and processing B/W for the amateur was geared to #2 on a condenser enlarger. D76r replenished developer was fantastic but for many we did Rodinal or May and Baker Promicrol. Eventually Promicrol was all we used as a single shot developer.
HC-110 was used for larger formats like 4x5 only.
The use of Multigrade paper became a hit and miss system as the contrast curves did not come close to graded paper. Large print for exhibition were done on AGFA or Gevaert Clorine Bromide paper but production prints in our lab mostly for news paper advertising was done on Multigrade.
With that we started printing with color enlarger diffused light (Chromega) heads to get a better matched contrast. the images were never really razor sharp due to low acutance of diffused light with Ilford Multigrade.
Commercially that was fine as it gave us consistency and reliable contrast suitable for advertising in news media.
So, in your comparison the two multigrade prints with different filters, that can make a difference.
Away from that, grain rips apart fine detail. Shooting soft images wide open does not provide enough edge sharpness to see that occurring.
The transfer edge between dark and light is not sharp as super fine grain film will show.
The benefit of grain lies in it creating contrasty edges by eliminating the transfer edge. Easy to compare with fine grain film that shows a clear soft transition from white to black containing 10 to 20 silver halide particles. whereby course grain film goes from white to black in just three particles. It creates sharpness even if there wasn't any.
As I intend to then make 16x20" enlargements I may prefer a smoother Rodinal grain rather than a chunky HC-110 grain.
And as a blanket comparison between two developers, your side by side is enough to make people think there is much more to explore.
For me listening to you is very entertaining as you bring up valuable points regarding darkroom practices.
It is a step back (50 years) for me but so heart warming to see people embrace this original form.
Rinus B
It’s pretty understandable that you’d prefer the Rodinal in this head-head, as accurate developers really deliver that “pop” that all of us B&W junkies love to see in negs/prints! HC110 is a nice fine grain developer, but all constraints being equal, I’d take Rodinal any day for its perceptible effectiveness.
Testing and liking Rodinal could also lead you down the rabbit hole of trying Perceptol, Pyro, Obsidian, and Xtol . . . But I digress. It all starts looking the same w/accutance developers at nominal dilutions, save for Pyro and that lovely stain.
If you want to smooth out the grain a bit at any Rodinal dilution, you can add a pinch of borax to mixed solution (or sodium sulfite), and maintain that “accutance” look while gaining some subtle grain smoothness in the scan or print.
BTW, fellow professional MKE photog here . . . And aside my daily Pro work, I’ve got 20+ years in the darkroom, and just ditched my 4x5 for 5x7 ✌🏻
Great video! Rodinal for me is amazing for Tmax 100 and Fomapan 100 (and other slower speed films), but never worked well for Tri-x (or HP5). I felt HC-110 made Tri-x come alive and also worked very well with Shanghai GP3 (even though it is 100 speed). I will also say I normally find a film and developer and stick to it, don't like to jump around a lot so I can gauge results but I am far from anyone who knows what they are doing, haha.
Great comparison and I love your approach and thoughts on this. Very helpful.
Thank you!
These are two top developers I use. Anything 100 speed and below I generally use Rodinal in anything higher I use HC-110.
Seems like a good approach. I think I will be using Rodinal more. Just did some 4x5 FP4 in it and the negs look quite nice!
I'm curious why you use this approach? What qualities is Rodinal giving you below 100 speed that you love? And what don't you like about 100 speed? Just the grain pattern or is there more going on that bothers you? Thanks in advance.
great video! My personal preferences goes to Rodinal/R09. I had hc110 but I always got back to Rodinal. Used from 1+25 to 1+100 it has always amazed me. And it last ages once opened if stored at ambient temperature and in darkness
Thanks, It is really great stuff and do not see anything not to like about it.
It is really a matter of taste. For black and white, those two are the developers I use almost exclusively. I don't want to mix powders, because I print mostly color (RA-4), and do black and white work just occasionally. I think that HC-110 os the one I use most often, but I do use Rodinal when I want the look this classic developer produces. I am not afraid of grain in general. My absolute favorite b&w film is Ilford's FP-4. HP-5 is OK, but i prefer FP-4 because of its slightly higher contrast. It is not grainy, but as a classic film, it is still visible.
I also love the economy and convenience of the liquid concentrates and the results are wonderfull. I have been playing more with Rodinal for slower films like FP4 and have been happy with the results.
Gracias por compartir este comparativo, yo use mucho el HC-110 me acabe dos botellas enteras revelando, ahora como ya no lo encuentro en mi pais empece a desarrollar con el Rodinal, y me va bastante bien también.
Great to hear, I really do not think you can go wrong with either one!
I've been doing a deep dive into Rodinal recently. I was very surprised in the results of different dilutions! I had been using it 1:50 with OK results, but using FP4 in Rodinal 1:25, box speed, the results were very different than 1:50. Not only was the grain finer, but the whites were whiter and the blacks were blacker. Even more importantly, there was a three dimensional rendering that I was not getting before. This effort is with the intention of easier darkroom printing and this is now my standard against which all other developers will be compared. Also, 1:200 stand for 3 to 4 hours completely leveled out any differences in exposure. I did a FP4 sample exposed at ISO 60, 125, and 250 and each frame was very consistent to the other.
Thanks for sharing. I have heard different dilutions change the curve with Ordinal.. will have to mess around some more. definitely like the stuff!
Good comparison. I've ended up using Ilford developers and got great results with HP5+ in DDX and Foma200 n ID11 or Microphen but want to try some other makes
Heard good things about DDX but have not tried it. ID11 is the standard 👍
great video, I really appreciate this especially as a long time rodinal user. I'm probably sticking to rodinal and agree with all of your points in favor of rodinal for both the prints and the scans.
Thanks Ryan!
Great video. I develop HP5+ in DD-X when pushing to 800 or ID-11 for 400. I use Rodinal when I want a more edgy look. I don't print and I scan using Epson V800 and Silverfast. I am now making an effort to unsharp the scanning process as much as possible so the grain is softer rather than looking like sand. On Silverfast I use Less AutoSharpness (-) to have the least digital effect on my images and I store my photos on Mac Photos taking care not to make any Light adjustments in Mac Photos as I feel there is an AI element to Mac Photos which seems to add sharpness with any adjustment made which I want to avoid. Cheers!
Thanks for sharing. I feel like I often oversharpen my scans but when zoomed out feel they look better online whereas they would be to sharpened for say a print.
I think this comes from shooting digital and how sharp everything is now…
This was awesome, thanks for putting this video together. I'm definitley going to start paying more attention to what developer(s) my lab uses. Is it just my screen or does the HC110 have more contrast, or at least brighter whites?
Yes, the hc110 was developed with a bit more contrast. I tried matching the prints but still could have added more contrast to the Rodinal neg in printing. Rodinal does have a straighter curve though and HC110 has more upswept curve that separates the highlights a little more with less shadow separation
Nice one! Just ordered a bulk roll of fomapan 400 and my first bottle of Rodinal (used mostly Ilford ID-11 up to now), so I have a better idea of what I can expect out of the combo. Will probably (have to) push to 800. Any experience doing that in Rodinal (I do love grain, not a fan of blown highlights though...).
The Rodinal will give more pronounced grain and appear sharper in my experience. Rodinal does seem to have good properties when wanting to retain highlights. You should be able to use minimal agitation and even stand to get more speed and contrast control out of it, though have limited experience shooting at 800, do not see why you could not.
I've been using rodinal more for my slow films... particularly Fomapan 100 and FP4 are really nice. Still in the Hc110 camp and would lean toward the ID 11 for Fomapan 400 but for some things the extra crispness is nice. Really do not think you can go wrong with any of them.
@@Distphoto Thanks for your response! I think I'll push one roll in Rodinal, one in ID-11, and then process the rest based on the results in print. Can't wait 🙂
Standing development for Rodinal brings highlights down. But, I now prefer HC-110.
Been using Rodinal more for slower films and quite like the look. But still favor hc110 most of the time.. Both are great!
You can use both developers at the same time.Try very a diluted HC100 solution and then add 6ml of rodinal ( for 2 rolls of 35mm) to get sharper imgs
Sounds interesting. I will have to experiment, thanks!
Thanks!
Thank you Steve!
if you really want grain, try the ralph gibson method. Expose for the HIGHLIGHTS, in bright sun, and then use rodinal 1:25 and over develop to 11 Minutes, agitate by rolling the cannister on its side every 90 seconds. YES roll the cannister ON THE FLOOR>
very dense negatives.
So overexpose & over develop… That will give you more grain for sure would have to see how much contrast and print ability are left in the highlights, will have to check him out could lead to interesting and very grainy results!
What about the HC110 + Rodinal mix ? ( Figital Revolution )
Never heard this. Have heard of adding Rodinal to Xtol…. I have to look into this thanks!
I´ve used Ilford Ilfotech 1:32 + Rodinal 1:100 or 1:200
love it Thank you For sharing
You are so welcome!
Rodinal is going to have a problem pulling full speed, which is why those images had lower density. It's also going to compress more at 1:50. I like it with TMX 100. Not with anything else. Xtol will smoke both.
I am also a fan of Xtol but really like the convenience of the concentrated solutions. Especially for long term use
im interested to know how you scan your negatives as a guideline
My medium format and 35mm I have been using my R5 and macro lens. For 4x5 I use an epson flatbed👍
@@Distphoto I have the epson 850 pro, but I have to add ton of sharpness, I think Im gonna use my GFX and macro for scans. Or it's only because I use a pinhole in 4x5. I've ordered a new large format camera from Stenopeika
🌻
😃
very scientific!
Thanks, as scientific as I like to get!
very interesting love it ...😀
Thanks!
Try piro-developers (stain) - I am really like how it looks
I use Pyrocat HD from time to time and want to give 510 pyro a try just have not 👍
@@Distphoto I want to try pyrocatehin + CD-2 developer, like Finol by Moersh but mix it by myself
Waiting when somebody will go from USA to Argentina and can bring CD-2/CD-3/CD-4 to me
The best grain is no grain.
If that is what you like then yes 👍
thats subjective, Photographers like Ralph Gibson loved huge grain.