Was this Removed Move ACTUALLY Broken?
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- Опубліковано 19 чер 2024
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Hidden Power has been around for years and then it was removed in Gen 8. Was it actually broken? #pokemon #pokemonscarletandviolet #pokemonshowdown
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Timestamps:
0:00 - Intro
2:33 - The Hidden Power Dilemma
4:30 - The Power of ANY Coverage
6:36 - The Nerf
7:17 - Very Niche Uses
9:45 - When Coverage on certain Pokemon is too Powerful
13:06 -Outro
Directed by Kellen / kellen_fsg
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Written By Kevin aka BKC His Channel:
/ @bkcisthrash
This Bread Needs More Jam:
/ @thisbreadneedsmo...
Music:
Battle! Terapagos - Indigo Disk OST
Route 216 (Day) - Diamond & Pearl OST
Vs. Deoxys - Omega Ruby/Alpha Sapphire OST
Poke Cup Battle - Pokemon Stadium 2 OST
Old Chataeu - Brilliant Diamond/Shining Pearl OST
Castelia City - Black & White OST
Thumbnail:
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IG: / dusty.butter
VFX Intro By Ryan Gonzales
ryangonzalesfilmmaker.weebly....
Songs Used (List of ALL Songs used for this series. Some may or may not make it into the video):
docs.google.com/document/d/1H... - Ігри
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Please do a theorem going over priority moves and their impact in battle. (Scizor theorem)
For the next removed move discussion, do signal beam or return
1:10 Whoever edited the video misspelled "IT'S" (which is the shorthand way of writing/typing the phrase "IT IS"). "ITS" (without an apostrophe) is an ACTUAL WORD, you know? It's a possessive pronoun, while "IT IS" = "IT'S" (with an apostrophe)
Don't put sponsored content in the middle of the video.
Please go over how you're wrong to want any bans, nerfs, buffs, removals, etc. And apologize to the fan base for your lies
My biggest issue with Hidden Power was that it only actively benefited Special Attackers outside of the lures that used it. There was no Physical version of the move
Back in the days, when there was no physical-special split...
@@starsimvidz
There are still people who play gen 2 and 3 competitive.
@@starsimvidz I'm an old-fashioned man.
@@darthvaderbro7210 Oh god I forgot about that
So technically there was a Physical version of Hidden Power, but only for specific types
@@AceTrainerRaf back in gen 3, ppl used to use hp flying a lot for dragon dance gyarados & salamence lol.
and i think in gen 2, aerodactyl had to run hp rock cuz its only stab was ancient power....(it didn't get rock slide even...)
People talk about Pursuit and Hidden Power, but no one mentions Return and Frustration being removed in SwSh, Return being seen in a pre release trailer for BDSP, and then neither being in final game at all upon release
I bet those moves lack of return makes you frustrated.
It's honestly super weird and annoying how they just nuked such moves and never brought them back. They weren't overpowered or anything, they probably just didn't want to program their mechanics
@@homerman76Which is weird cause they still have friendship mechanics in the game
@@avaluggglazer445Maybe it has something to do with how Friendship and Affection were fused in Let's Go onward and that messes with how the move works. That's my theory.
Frustration was never removed & is in fact stronger than ever among Pkmn fans.
pickles?
I just want to see Signal Beam again.
What was SO wrong about it; my boy Jolteon was already thirsting for coverage 😭.
Why pursuit,Hold hands and Signal beam removed?
I am somewhat disconected from pokemon
Mf you still ain’t gonna hold any hands just like most of us 💀
@@starforce6751 in sword and shield a bunch of moves got removed for one reason or another
arguably worse than the pokemon being removed because at least we knew pokemon would come back in future games, most of the removed moves still haven’t come back 3 games and 4 dlcs later
What if... 🤔🤔
we held hands 🙈🙈
in Area Zero 😳😳😳
I think Hidden Power was removed in Gen 8 because of Dynamaxing, getting any boost or weather condition would maybe be a bit too much, and in Gen 9, Tera Blast is just HP with more power and extra caveats
Every mon getting Max Airstream, VGC in shambles
Then just program it to always turn into Max Strike.
I totally agree with the dude above me, that was my first thought as well
I haven’t really played gen9 much, because… well, it wasn’t the best impression. So in my noob understanding, terra blast’s/terrastalizing’s very extra caveats you mentioned *are* a much better implementation of the “ditto but as an attack” concept of HP (only the concept; as I understand it, terra is pretty/too strong itself), no?
@@joeyyoung5173 If everyone is Speedy, then none is!
"Gigabrain" xD
at least driblim doesnt need hidden power flying anymore since they gave it air slash after 5 generations
75 BP though.
@@dse763Better than 60, amiright?
@@dse763 what, you got a better flying type special move?
@@big__shell 75 bp is still trash af, I really dont know why they wont add a better flying special stab
@@big__shell Lugia's Aeroblast comes to mind. Though it's exclusive to Lugia so I suppose it's kinda pointless to bring it up. Oh well. 🤷♂️
I miss Signal Beam it was always a nice move and was on quite a few decent mons as a bit of niche coverage
this. I ran it on my Espeon.
Yeah, honestly moves being removed like Signal Beam or Aurora Beam just baffled me. Aurora Beam was a nice middle game ice type move before ice beam and signal beam was just deadass a solid coverage option for some pokémon.
@@youtube-kit9450I'm coping by thinking they'll make a Beam category for moves, like there's Sound and now Wind and that they'd bring Signal/Aurora Beam back and more of that category.
Like Jolteon, Manectric lost Hidden Power and Signal Beam and they didn't get new special moves.
@@viewer6152 Issue is that those mons didn't get new moves. Example, Latios and Latias got Aura Sphere and Mystical Fire.
Hidden Power was actually in BDSP and Legends: Arceus, but in those games, it’s only on Unown. Also, in Legends, Hidden Power changes type depending on the opponent pokemon, switching to a type that pokemon is weak to. It’s basically a much weaker version of Judgement when the Legend plate is used on Arceus
Now that is a neat fact.
If they do bring back Hidden Power in future games, I think the Legends Arceus approach is the best one (Except for the whole only being available on Unown part). That way, the move is not reliant on IV’s.
@@matthewlasalvia7026It would have to be incredibly limited in distribution with that effect.
@@matthewlasalvia7026
Hell no dude, that's too op.
A bunch of Pokémon with a move that's supereffective to EVERYTHING.
Banned straight to AG.
@@pizza7yearsago609 The biggest problem are the super effective mechanics, hitting with a HP on pokemon with double weaknesses to it, is going to easily compensate the mid power output, it´s basically going to hit like two solarbeams.
There should be a mechanic where certain types of HP have weaker dmg output like using types that do supereffective dmg on types with the advantage on the mon in question, but thats hard to implement so it´s easier to just outright ban it.
On one hand, Pokemon who have coverage issues like Lilligant don't appreciate Hidden Power gone. On the other, it being gone makes breeding for specific IVs for specific Hidden Power types less obnoxious. Gen IX kind of fixed that with Tera Blast (whose type can be changed by using shards to change the user's Tera type), but using it for actual coverage would burn the once per game Terastalization.
Competitive uses aside, Unown is in an awkward spot since Hidden Power is its only move, making it only usable in BD/SP or Legends Arceus, which do have Hidden Power back; who knows when Game Freak will make HP available in future games so Unown will come back.
They could just make it limited to unown and have it work like steller type
I agree, it was Pokémon species dependent which ones could abuse it vs which ones simply became better with it.
…
with that said, I would be lying if I said that I didn’t enjoy seeing my shiny Blacephalon drop Quagsires like flies due to it just so happening to have Hidden Power Grass lol
I’m just so confused why they removed it, being that this generation’s gimmick is just a juiced up version of the move itself (I’m aware only one Pokémon per battle can use it, but it’s still much more powerful as a concept). And Dynamax was just OBJECTIVELY more broken than Hidden Power ever could be. Not to mention that they clearly don’t care about balancing at all with how they just love to make every Generation of Pokémon overall stronger than the last in most cases… It’s like they want to balance until they don’t…
@@asuuki2048The problem with Hidden Power is that is needlessly complicated. It creates a skill check that makes breeding obtuse. Now, you don't need precise IVs to get that essential coverage move.
Tera Blast is different in that you know generally the tradeoff for coverage is using up your terastilization and trading the defenses of your natural type combo for this specific coverage
Honestly, I think they should just give us something similar to Showdown after completing the main game. Even with the current QoL improvements it's too much of a grind for people who don't have the time to be able to enjoy the competitive environment. 🤔
@@asuuki2048There are objectively three reasons that would explain the removal of Hidden Power that make sense.
1) Getting a legit Pokemon with good IVs and the right Hidden Power was incredibly challenging, making hacked mons far more viable since you could control those variables on them, so the removal could have been an attempt to reduce/remove some of the reason for generating hacked Pokemon. Obviously not something that impacted Showdown, but it affected the official competitive scene a lot.
2) It could have further unbalanced Dynamax. Let alone the problem of coding a move of variable type to work as the correct max move every time, it would have allowed every Mon access to extremely potent dynamax moves for doubles, such as Max Airstream, Max Ooze, and Max Steelspike.
3) Piggybacking off of my first reason, they wanted to make their competitive scene more simple to get into. With the introduction of Super Training, Ability Patches, Ability Capsules, and the Nature mints, they wanted to make it so that anyone could get a competitive-grade team together easily and legitimately with far less hassle. If they wanted to do the same while keeping hidden power, they'd need to program a whole gamut of items to change a Pokemon's Hidden Power type, which is a lot more effort than the devs likely wanted to bother with since that would equate to 18 items to enable one move almost exclusively used for coverage that isn't even guaranteed to be run.
The thought of Regieleki with Hidden Power is terrifying.
Tera Ice Tera Blast pushed it to Ubers in a literal week
Case in point: when it got a STRONGER HP in the form of Tera Blast.
@@tonberry2670 You mean day?
@@tonberry2670 day*
hours*
I like Tera Blast more not cause it’s stronger, but it’s less of a hassle to get the type you want
And while that's great, I'm worried that it's gonna be taken out as soon as the next game comes, meaning Pokémon that need coverage are gonna be left in the dust.
Laughs in Pokémon showdown
That and both types of attacks can use it effectively
@@brandoncherry6264they’ll find a way, since Ogrepon and Terapagos rely on Terastalization
@@erikeconomou6487 but in the real game I want all my pokemon to be viable
I will never understand why Secret Power was never made the physical counterpart to hidden power
That annoyin move Audinos use in BW2?
The impression I get is that the best solution for Pokémon lacking coverage isn't an unhealthy crutch like hidden power, it's simply for them to get a better movepool.
That's exactly how I feel both because Hidden Power is dummy tedious to set up on a real game, and because it actively ruins a lot of the fun in checks and counters when it effectively encourages statchecks.
Which you can't do against FUCKING Keldeo.
Thats the point of HP tho.
Nah the best solution would be bringing back hidden power
But they didn’t, which is a problem. The removal of HP required a rebalance of movepools to be healthy and that rebalancing never happened. Now mons with bad coverage suffer even more and Pokémon that already had good coverage are even more valuable.
Or perhaps they could use a move pool as a balancing tool. Better stats-> smaller move pool vs. Worse stats-> larger movepool
One thing I remember about Hidden power is that in Legends Arceus, Unown was once again the only one that can use the move but the crazy change is that the move was reduced to 50 base power but the move is always super effective against any target by automatically changing the type depending on what it's facing against which is crazy 🤣
At least it would explain why in the movie, a bunch of Unown fodder could do magic stuff and Beat the crap out of a Entei.
Basically, Hidden Power checked a lot of Pokémon that had a Quadruple weakness. In some cases, Pokémon with a regular weakness was checked as well if they had really low Special Defense.
Bingo, thats why it´s not relevant in the pokemon go meta, where super effective mechanics prevent it from being too useful.
I want hidden power to come back as unknown exclusive and exist like it did in Arceus as a super effective omni-attack. You'd be hard pressed to really use unknown competitively, but the sheer utility could get people to try maybe mimic or assist shenanigans
Terastalization was their way of bringing it back and limiting it to one mon per battle
Sadly they're most likely going to remove it after one generation, same as every other gimmick before.
@@user-nx6ut1wh7o mega evo was still in gen7 and dyno and z moves were garbage imo
I can get why Hidden power was removed, it was pretty damn tedious trying to get the right hidden power type, and for a time BP, on cartridge. Plus it makes special attackers a little to good compared to physical attackers who were stuck with less coverage on average.
But at the same time, there’s so many Mons that struggle badly with coverage that it’s not even funny. So many Grass types like Sceptile, Serperior just to name a few are still stuck with only Grass, Normal and one coverage move of a different type that doesn’t help much, same with a lot of electric types like Jolteon which really sucks, plus it makes Mons like Gliscor much tougher to check compared to before.
But there’s stuff like Regilecki and Shadow rider who are only held back by a lack of coverage moves.
Personally I do wish they went back to alot of Mons that desperately needed the coverage hidden power brought. Like giving Earth power to grass types not unlike how Water types have Ice beam or how Fire types have Solar beam/Energy Ball
Also Aurora Beam to electric types!
Easiest way would just give them more coverage options. There's no reason why grass-types have such abysmal coverage.
@@madjester9844Why?
@@skeetermania3202 No wait, that one is actually really clever, Auroras are caused by the magnetic field interacting with stuff like solar flares and the like. Quite honestly that’s such a brilliant idea I wish it was a thing in general, either via Tms or egg moves
My old Pokemon Box account is full of Hidden Power rejects. So many Snivy, Budew and Chimchar. And the hell I went through using rng exploits for the right spread on Gen 5 Legendaries.
BKC commin in with the david lynch references.
As someone who is not well read, I'm just gonna assume that all the references that I dont get in the intro are David Lynch films because of the Unown movie joke
I think hidden power could return, but it should *not* return as a TM or otherwise learnable move. It should remain an exclusive thing to a small niche of pokemon, giving those pokemon the edge of having hidden power, while every tom, dick and harry-mon doesn't suddenly have way more coverage than initially intended.
A move only for Unkown, Arceus, Silvally, maybe Regigigas, and throw in some weird left field one like Sawk for good measure.
I think this is the way to do it. Where not every mon can learn it. It could help certain ones by giving them a coverage move of any type. But I don't think it should be so limited in terms of availability that it's useless. Would just be a good buff to many mons.
I mean, it can still be a TM, but just like Toxic, no longer be universally learnable.
@@dradel2050 i like the aesthetics of pokemon like medicham and pokemon like psyduck and slowpoke getting it. they just perfectly embody two completely different forms of awakening to an inner, hidden power
@@hi-i-am-atan I mean psyduck should just get it as an apology.
As a Unown fan I hope they get reworked with a ability like wishiwashi.
Make Unown KING a reality Gamefreak, you cowards
Which one?
@@viewer6152 in my knack of the woods it was Unown KING. But I've also heard of Unown-Blaster. I think it's funny how every school has their own fake unown final boss/form
Actually used to use HP ground Kyogre in oras to bait out primal Groudon and kill it because they were always expecting a water move
The irony of Groudon when it goes Primal. It loses to a single well placed ground attack on the special side.
In VGC 2016 some teams with Primal Kyogre used Mega Gengar with Hidden Power Water to trap and remove Primal Groudon under Primordial Sea, preventing it to switch out and reset the weather.
@@metayoshi1712 Nothing says you're the lord of all ground like dropping to ground.
Assuming Terastallization doesn't return in Gen 10 and beyond, I think Hidden Power should return, but with mechanics more like Tera. Give every Pokemon a "hidden type" that can be changed like Tera type and determines what type their Hidden Power is, and have Hidden Power result in either a Physical or Special move depending on which of the user's attacking stats is higher. If at any point it proves to be too powerful (which personally, I don't feel like it ever was), Smogon can just implement a limit to the number of HP mons per team so that it essentially functions like a less restrictive Tera Blast.
There's videos like this one where the illusion is broken, and it's just BKC speaking in Kellen's voice.
I love your channel and BKC for bringing me back to my early competitive days.
I’ll say this. If there was a Physical version of Hidden Power that would be cool as well as benefit both sides of the attacking Spectrum. I’ve gained a lot of appreciation for Hidden Power over the years.
As mentioned in the video, we had Natural Gift, which actually was infinitely more fair since it had real opportunity cost. Super effective coverage of choice requiring a resource actually makes sense.
the bkc patented david lynch references in the first minute of the video 🥰
I wonder what it would be like if hidden power kept its type based category into gen 4 and beyond
HWO ARE YOU
I feel like they would have just done what they did with Tera Blast, have it automatically benefit from the bigger number on either Attack or SpAtk.
Volcarona: *Cries in Physical HP Ground* 😭
Landorus-T: *Continues with HP Ice as normal from its inferior Special Attack* 😐
Electric-Type Legendaries: *Continue spamming HP Ice/Grass off their superior Special Attack* 😈
breloom getting hprock/ghost sounds cool
@@sheeplol2161 Breloom already gets Rock Tomb, and that's also affected by Technician. Plus the speed drop pairs well with Spore.
Me trying to find a video good enough to watch while eating
FSG: Hold my full restore
Full restores? Damn, he’s treating himself. 😅
Good job yt notifications you finally did your job and tell me when someone actually posts instead of 20 hours later
Great intro. I lovev the blue velvet reference
The interesting thing is that Tera Blast could return without the Tera mechanic, and it could be tweaked in a number of different ways
1. Hidden Power replacement, but instead of it’s type being determined by IVs, it’s type can be changed with a key item (similar to how Zygarde in gen 8 has a key item that allows it to change ability and form at will)
2. Rebalanced Return, have it be a base 90 or base 100 normal type attack that nearly any Pokemon can learn, there is value in having a move that is able to be physical or special depending on if the Pokemon has a higher attack or sp. attack stat
3. True neutral, have it deal neural damage against all opponents, a way to add coverage to Pokemon that lack coverage (I.E. Regieleki)
I love 3!
I could see 1 or 3 happening, though I want 1. Maybe by gen 10, Briar in her research to spread the terastal phenomenon hasn't had enough time to fully do it, and all Pokémon can do is use different types of Tera blast? That's a serviceable explanation, you could even keep Stellar and get option 3 as part of this
@@gnarledcox i personally want number 1 to happen, be able to give Rillaboom rock type attack (so that the music monkey can rock n roll)
@typemasters2871 I can't believe he doesn't get stone edge or something, why won't my giant monkey smash things with rocks gamefreak
@@gnarledcox EXACTLY!!! Let the monkey rock n roll
I'm really enjoying these history discussions. I know Freezai already did it, but would you consider doing the entire competitive history, from a meta game perspective, of individual generations? I think the False Swipe crew can handle it easier than one person.
The bane of 4x weak Pokémon everywhere.
If hidden power returned it would need to be like tera blast where you can change what type it is or itll be pointless
When Tera Blast was introduced, I thought it was a replacement for Hidden Power. It would have been too strong at 80 Power though.
It makes sense to remove Hidden Power, especially since we have terrastilization right now. Two different universal forms of coverage would be too much. But I would really like for it to come back with a more limited distribution once we're out of Paldea and terrastilization stops being a thing.
Maybe even make it use the stronger offensive stat like Tera Blast to help out certain physical mons with limited coverage, like Gyarados who notoriously has no decent physical flying-type moves. Just don't give it to scizor
One thing that could help with balancing Hidden Power if it ever came back would be if it’s type was based on a held item like Arceus’ Judgment.
Kinda like Natural Gift
Im loving this vids, take a break from how good were they actually and do more of this or Pokemon who got better or worst.
I played a draft league once, and I remember my sand rush stoutland ohkoing kartana with an uninvested hidden power was a huge play that season.
13:31 I mean, that’s _technically_ a possibility due to HP’s power also being variable from 31 to 70 pre-Gen 6.
Hidden Power could easily have returned with modification this generation.
Rather than being based on IVs, it’s based on Tera Type, which would allow for a greater customisability. The drawback would be that the Tera Type would be locked to that Type, while being locked to 55/60BP. This would result in Pokémon losing the option for pure defensive Tera to an offensive move, but allowing for a later Tera.
That, and reducing its distribution in a similar way to how Scald and Toxic were.
Just give the pokemon that really needed it to be relevan an equal substitue, nerf aurora beam to 60 and give it to most special electric types and all the forces of nature
I like that hidden power used to be the best flying and bug move
lol
and the only 100 accurate physical and special rock type move
@@somechupacabrawithinternet8866 well there was still ancient power in Gen 3 although that only has 5 pp and 60bp. Then in Gen 4 there's power gem but not a lot of pokemon learn that. And then finally in Gen 9 we get an accurate, good rock type move...that only 1 thing learns
David Lynch directing the 3rd film made me spit out my tea laughing 😂
Ive never minded HP, personally. A Super Effective HP is weaker than a neutral STAB earthquake, surf, Tbolt, ice beam, or any other move base 95 or above. Prior to Gen 4 it was often the only okay STAB move for many Pokemon (see Aerodactyl and Gyarados with HP Flying, or Pinsir with HP Bug) so a decision had to be made for many Pokemon.
Its main potency was in dealing with double-weaknesses, and without that it's really hard not to wonder how things would have gone. Swampert very well could have ended up as the very first starter banned if things couldn't answer it with HP Grass (if not forcing some really options like Magical Leaf Gardevoir).
I think HP is mainly a move that offers a sort of bandaid for bad movepools. It's telling that Geomancy Xerneas ran it in Gen 6 and 7 because the other coverage moves it learns are Thunder, Grass Knot, and Focus Blast, two of which are rather low accuracy.
Its main problem is that in main game getting a max power one with a good type was absurd and relied on mechanics the player is not well informed of.
Also everyone is talking about terra blast but what about the next gimmick? There's no way they're keeping terra types around if they removed z crystals and megas, what makes anyone they this gimmick is going to stick around?
A little addendum about GSC: in this games the relation between the move and DV (the system before IVs) is even more relevant than generations 3-6.
For example Hidden Power fire (along with fighting and grass) requires 3 as HP DV, so while your Forretress now may have the upper hand in the mirror match it has a less optimal match-up against other Pokémon, since now it has less HP and thus is less bulky (for example various moves are now a clear 3HKO / 4HKO, that for a Pokémon with no recovery outside Leftovers it can make the difference in the long run).
The concept of hidden power was great! The practice of hidden power for a VGC landscape meant hacks galore cause who has the time to reset for a 4IV HP ice Thundurus? If there was a way to control the hidden power the same way we do with Tera types right now, that would make it able to be balanced.
Hidden Power should've been Unown's signature move tbh
I’m just kinda glad about hidden power going away. Hated the mechanic for hunting that perfect one, and how it benefited special attackers only. I’d rather just have more well defined diverse movesets.
Unown should maybe just get a new move with a Stellar Type like mechanic, or ignores the opponent’s Type for damage calculation. Maybe give it to arceus, a returning terapagos, or if they ever give unown an evo and then just like that it is a simpler but still special move
Not to mention that HP was the best STAB for most Pokémon until generation 4
I Ran Specs Ferrothorn in Gen 6. Giga Drain, Flash Cannon, Thunderbolt, and Hidden Power Fire or Ice.
I think hidden power was too oppressive for giving strong offensive mons lacking coverage (especially electric types) good coverage against their greatest checks. However, I also love the versatility offered to Pokemon such as fortress and hippowdon via hitting their quad weak counters, my favourite example is easily skarmory in gen 3 running max speed and basically max SpA with hidden power ground to ‘check’ magneton when it tries to counter you
The funny thing is, Gen 8 onwards had been when Hidden Power went back to being Unown's signature move as it now only comes up whenever Unown does & only with it. If that's not a huge nerf, idk what is
Natural Gift could have been so nice with repeated uses as long as the berry is held and not consumed/knocked off/tricked away.
too many pokemon with limited movesets relied on hidden power and not every mon was fixed after move removal
Coverage moves are very necessary tools because a lot of pokemon have very shallow move pools.
Compared to Pursuit, which is a bit more of an open question, I understand why Game Freak removed Hidden Power.
GF has been moving in the direction of streamlining the competitive battling process for years, particularly the onboarding process. The newer generations have slowly but surely been trying to make raising competitively viable Pokemon easier and less time consuming (although imablissy has shown that that process has been... rough to say the least).
For the most part (despite some backpedaling in Gen 9) GF has moved in the direction of making moves more available, making EV training simpler, and making IV breeding more transparent and easier. Hidden Power just kind of flies in the face of all that. The actual way HP type is determined is totally opaque (especially after Gen 2 where HP type was divorced from IVs) and is yet another thing to keep in mind when raising a team. You may personally not want to bother but the opportunity cost of not obtaining the optimal type is huge, being the difference between forcing out vital mons or being completely walled. Even if you don't do it, everyone else will within the competitive context so you will be forced to deal with it without capturing any benefit for yourself. Therefore, it is in your best interest to breed for HP type anyway because of the emergent circumstances of the game. When trying to move in the direction of making competitive more accessible to at least start, removing HP makes sense.
Mind you this is purely from the perspective of the physical game, in sims this time and opportunity cost doesn't exist and HP can be around in a much healthier way. In the actual game where each mon needs to be raised yourself, HP was effectively a time tax for special attackers.
Honestly, Hidden Power needed to get removed. Breeding for it was a nightmare, so hacking it in gave people an advantage. Granted, this wasn't a problem on Showdown..
Yeah, i was never fond of it. It’s cool to have “any” type of move, but it wore out quickly and was a massive chore. It was a fancy design gimmick for gen2 that was unfortunately so strong, that people actually *used* it. 🤔
I was never big into competitive, but I loved to breed strong mons and put together teams just for fun in every gen and then use them a bit in singles in postgame SP or MP (and get my ass handed to me in the latter😅). Whenever I saw “hidden power” in a moveset, I immediately got noticeably less delighted; In fact, I exclusively traded for all my HP mons, which is… telling. And it has a boring animation, too - it’s the epitome of tryhardismo. 😅
Power is power and coverage of it is important. It’s one of my many gripes with mainline Pokémon games. Why make the power level significantly weaker than before for ridiculous reasons? If you can’t power through you won’t be getting far at all. Many Pokémon who benefited from such powers will forever suffer from infamy as a result. It’s why some Pokémon that were good with it suddenly faded into obscurity and irrelevance.
I mean, hacking is still way more reasonable than the amount of grinding you need to do, even with all the modern tools. The whole RPG mechanics just don't mix with the competitive side of it all.
@@OnlyNeedJuan Yikes, this dude returned I see
That's just a bad solution, they should have simplified the acquisition of the desired type for hidden power
If they do bring back HP they should program it like terablast, where takes from your strongest attacking stat.
Everyone was running Hidden Power Ice to kill Lando-T
I think the biggest thing about hidden power is that it added too much extra hassle of you were trying to breed your Pokémon legitimately. I think it should come back but at like 40 power so that it is only used when you really need it
I had no idea hidden power nor pursuit were removed. Havent beaten a new pokemon game since sun/moon though.
The loss of Hidden Power is mitigated a little bit by move pools having more coverage on average in gen9.
Not ideal, but a lot better than during the HP days.
Things also don't have to rely on HP for their STAB too. Which should never have been a thing.
did BKC drop the david lynch line in there lmao
I've seen skarmory use a special hidden power in gen 3... off of a god damn 40 base special attack
Hidden Power and pursuit are one of the bigger reasons I don’t want to do lower tiers. If it at least told which type hidden power was I might go back to it. But it doesn’t
I do really like unknown though. They’re cool
Entirely unrelated but can you do a remake of the Quagsire video? Its history is so funny and wacky, i would love to see what it did in the past, especially now that your videos are more in-depth
Please do a theorem going over priority moves and their impact in battle. (Scizor theorem)
Pretty sure he did that.
@@johnpolsen no he didn't
@@johnpolsen he didn’t. While he did make a theorem video on speed, he didn’t go over priority moves.
What's cool about the uber tier (at least in my preferred gens of 3 and 4) is that most things have the movepools to not really need hidden power at the expense of other more powerful moves.
Also a non-uber won't be doing much to things as bulky as the ubers with a 70 BP move.
The only common exception I can think of in dpp ubers is sunny HP fire on giratina-o and the latis.
I've been thinking about this for a long time since this video released, but I think a Hidden Power Clause for past generations could be significantly helpful for the health and balance of their respective tiers and metagames. The basic idea I came up with is that Pokémon would still be able to use Hidden Power types that match their own Types, but prohibit the use of non-STAB Hidden Powers for extra type coverage. In theory, this fixes Hidden Power's greatest problem while still letting specific Pokémon such as ADV Gyarados make use of an otherwise unusable STAB option. It's not a perfect solution, and some Pokémon are notably happy about Hidden Power's removal- something like ADV Swampert would be even better without being afraid of Hidden Power Grass being used by something Swampert should normally win against, for example- but it's the best I can come up with.
getting randomly distracted during the ad segment upon spotting a CM Stryker case
I don't think I've ever seen anyone own one before, the closest is the CM Trooper SE I have
Another issue with HP is that getting a good mon with the correct HP is extremely unlikely. Making genning a mon the more realistic way of getting one. And if you’re good at it RNG manipulation is another way to make it legal. Also a shiny with hidden power is also astronomically unlikely I saw the volcarona lol. I think most people just accept it that it’s probably genned if there playing on devices or just stuck with simulations if no devices are needed
False swipe gaming making an intro making references to david lynch is something i didnt expect
I think Gen 7's bottle also kinda helped Pokémon reliant on HP, where before it was somewhat (really small) built around IV Spreads that could sometimes be unoptimized, now that doesn't matter anymore
Hidden power made more sense in pre gen 4, when movepools were more limited and offensive pokemon weren't as strong. After that, it became just a matter of time before offensive power reached the point where having access to a move of any type was overwhelming
If they do bring back a HP type move, they need to at least give it the Photon Geyser/Tera Blast effect of going off your highest attacking stat. HP pre PSS was pretty neat since it being variable type could represent either physical or special (outside of always triggering Counter and never Mirror Coat), but mainly limiting it to Sp Atkers who already have an advantage in general mechanics (burn, intimidate, contact, etc.) was unfair.
I think given how useful HP can be, it should have been treated like e.g. priority moves: Yes, have them, but make them really weak. Maybe Base power 40. That way, they can still be used to prevent certain pokemon to completely wall others, but they are not strong enough to become an overwhealming threat in a one-on-one.
I caught that Blue Velvet reference 👀
The thumbnail coulda been zapdos shooting rhydon, in position to get mowed down by a rhyperior, using a z move! And then a galarian zapdos attempting to intercept rhyperior, w/ a terra brave bird!
Hidden Power Poison on pre-nerf Protean Greninja was always insane. You outsped any Fairy that came in on a Dark Pulse and then just switched to a Poison type lol. Now Gren has Gunk Shot and Sludge Wave, but with the new version of Protean, it's more prediction-reliant. Especially if you're Battle Bond and can't ohko the Fairy with non-stab Sludge Wave and die to a Moonblast
I'm told Terra got a nerf, at least in Showdown, where team preview allowed you to see exactly what tera type you'd be facing on each mon. That removes a lot of the guesswork with which type you're facing per mon. I wonder if that would be enough for HP, since even the known case could be oppressive when it gave a powerful mon a counter to its counters.
a minute in, I'm just going to say now: they got rid of Hidden Power - and nerfed Protean/Libero - so as not to overshadow the terastalize mechanic
I made an all Eeveelution team in Gen 7 and made sure Jolteon had HP Ground as an electric counter.
I hate Gliscor with a burning passion, but I still wouldn't want Hidden Power back. Not even at less than 60 bp. Everything having coverage against it's checks is too much.
I haven't watched the full video yet, but although i loved Hidden Power, I hated how it only gave special or mixed attackers coverage after gen 4. Literally almost every physical attacker would LOVE the type coverage.
Like Leafeon for example, HP Rock, Ground or Water if it was physical would've been awesome.
It's why I love Tera Blast, it gives physicals a type cover.
But Physical attackers have their own edge anyways in priority moves and switch in moves like volt switch, flip turn and Uturn, they don't need that versatility edge to be good 🤔
@@homerman76 I get where you're coming from but there's more to that. You got the Intimidate ability being one of the best abilities, as well as Burn cutting physical attacks in half. Not to mention there are some mons that don't have a pivot move like Escavalier or it's the same type as another move they'd rather have like Sizor having to decide between U-turn and X-Scissor/Bug Bite if we're talking about those.
Do we think a lower Base Power threshold would make it acceptable? I like 40. That’s a standard for entry level moves (ember water gun powder snow thundershock leafage peck)
Granted I might be wrong about this, but I was under the impression that the actual reason for the Gen Two legends hidden power ban, was due to it not being possible without cheating in order to get ice on those particular mons?
I believe it was legally possible. Just that it was so obnoxious to get the specific hidden power on the pair on cart (when smogon cares about being cartridge accurate that is) that you were better off cheating in hp ice/water zapdos and/or Raikou
Ah yes, most early Bug types only 'STAB' move before the introduction of Bug Bite in Generation 4 lol
I always wondered about Technician Roselia with HP-whatever, but never tried it out and now it's gone lol
In Gen 9 in particular, the entire Terra mechanic serves essentially the same purpose but demystifies it which for the competitive scene makes the barrier to entry much lower so for Gen 9 at least it's a positive change. But if Terra goes away in future games, which it almost definitely will, then HP being brought back would be nice, so long as the method of getting it's type is less obscured from the player.
Everyone talking about HP in the comments and not Pachirisu like the end card told us to, SMH my head. I think Pachirisu needs Tidy Up and then it will become the Ubers definining monster it was destined to be.
I know this video is focused on singles and not the official vgc doubles format. But i am interested to see how overbearing hp would be with open team sheets. I think it would still be to much for a good and healthier metagame but it might just reign in the terror just a bit
One thing I don't miss about hidden power is breeding for it
Dragalge, magcargo, drifblim or rotom and all of his forms! 💪💪💪
Going forward i expect the terra type to be the place holder for either terra blast, Hidden power, or whatever is next
I don’t mind hidden power getting removed because of how unfair any special attacker could have instant coverage but physical attackers could not. More even playing field now. Physical attackers already had to deal with inaccurate moves and burn/contact risks
I think Physical might be still on par due to Close Combat and Earthquake being high BP accurate spammable coverages compare to the inaccurate high BP Special coverages like Focus Blast, Hydro Pump, Fire Blast,...
Also we still dont have an intiminate ability for special attacker or status conditions which also cut the special attack in half
@@RubicXK Yeah, it's never been an actual unfair issue for physical attackers to not have their own variant just simply since they have access to some of the better moves anyways. Nobody complains about the fact that physical attackers are basically the only mons with priority or switch in moves. They both have their advantages
Why would a physical attacker need something like hidden power when basically anything with hands was given bolt/beam punches?
Gen 2 and 3 had physical HPs
I think its a bad thing that it was removed, for the fact that the Tera mechanic is just HP. Plus, who knows if that will be in the next Gen.