This might be the first long-form essay on 3s that hasn't made me want to poke my eyes out. Most people with any refined opinion on the game are busy playing it, leaving this kind of content to be pretty frustrating for real enthusiasts of the game. Really nice work.
Thank you very much faffel!! I really wanted this vid to stand out from other vids on 3s which I also find kinda frustrating at times. I really love this game and admire what it achieves, which I think gets overlooked in some ways. People know about the parry, but the game is a lot more than that (though the parry is great)
My 3rd strike cab i played back when i was a kid in high school is still in the same exact spot and billiards bar it always has been. such a wonderful place to visit when i go back home.
Oh that is so cool! Rare to see a cab maintained for that long these days. I wish my childhood soul Calibur 2 cab was still around. But it had issues and they just got rid of it
Parrying something you predict is one thing, doing it under pressure is an entirely different matter. And then following it up with a combo ... *Chef's kiss*. Really miss playing Third Strike at a Coney Island restaurant with my friends.
Oh yes and nothing feels better than landing it in the match. I love the way the parry is balanced in this game timing wise, where it s challenging enough to test your nerves, but lenient enough to be reasonable
@@TheElectricUnderground gaming isn’t dead because indie games and double AA are doing a lot better than triple AAA games please don’t be nostalgia blind.
@@TheElectricUnderground you should play more indie games and double AA games because indie games and double AA games are doing a lot better than triple AAA games, I hope you respond back because I’ve been asking. I’m not going to stop unless you gave me an answer so please respond back.
@@TheElectricUnderground you should play more indie games and double AA games because indie games and double AA games are doing a lot better than triple AAA games, I hope you respond back because I’ve been asking. I’m not going to stop unless you gave me an answer so please respond back.
Every single one of them bungled their international releases in at least one major way. Yatagarasu had a great run as an indie doujin darling, but as soon as it came west. The Nicalis, Kickstarter and Legend of Raven stuff happened leaving us with a Steam release which is far from being "complete" (even if you didn't care about rollback) unless you only care about the roster and even this year's update after ages of Japan only arcade stuff didn't change enough to get noticed. For a NEO GEO pocket like game, Pocket Rumble did come out on console but still had a long span of miscommunication and delays. Still Early Access on Steam with no updates in years despite being the most polished game in my comment. Blazing Strike? I'll hold some of my thoughts till it comes out but between the worst communication of all of these titles, a higher price, no demo/Early Access, a publisher reusing the same poor trailer a year later... I'm glad it is coming out soon for us to finally see a move list. It did have a demo that some people on Patreon may have played at some point but the pre-release period for the last 4 years is only rivaled by Square Enix when they publish a non-FF or DQ RPG.
Yeah it s such a hard model to try to sustain these days. I have a lot of respect for modern indie game that try to be more true to the genres roots, but it s also sad how hard it is for them to survive money wise
Oh absolutely the cps3 and it's visual design is incredible. So iconic and has stood the rest of time in both music and visuals. The 3s ost is also really fresh still. The games presentation really helps underscore it s free form mechanical design too
wasnt even the same team who did sf2 either. it was some new staff who didnt even have any experience making a fighting game... parry is what made sf third strike hype tho. where it got perfected. be real about it. most fgc wont even brag about new gen or 2nd impact. lol.
Yes exactly! It didn't work out as exactly as they had hoped in the first version of the game, but I think in 3s bringing back a few of the legacy characters and re adapting them to the 3s system was a fun idea. I think 3s does a fantastic job of feeling very fresh but keeping the street fighter spirit
I'm a bit too young to have experienced the arcade era in real-time. The insight you gave about how and why SF3 was so different from SF2 due to the arcade environment (literally) was pretty enlightening, and I love when a channel does that for me. Subscribed!
Thanks very much my dude!! Yes I was on the tale end final days of the arcade era for a lot of fighting games so I was early enough to see this era's ending but late enough to not be too enmeshed in the sf2 scene. So I always tend to encounter the series cabs all together these days ha
Ha yeah I really wanted to show that this is a huge different between what 3s does and what resi4 remake does, despite both mechanics being called "parry." Great design needs to be all through the system and limited to exist in that system, vs being thrown over the top of an exiting system and then just balanced with knife durability ha
Arcades didn’t have every Street Fighter title by the end of the ‘90s. The landscape was still fierce. People didn’t play the “outdated” games. You’d see III next to a Tekken Tag, not SF II.
I didn’t play SF3 until I found it in an arcade in London in 2015. I loved how mobile the characters felt compared to other SF games. I was never a hardcore player of SF3, but I keep going back to it just because of the cool style of it.
I love to hear that Philip. I think people underestimate how fun 3s is to play purely on the feel and fun factor, another reason why I play it on arcade mode on highest dip switches to this day. I have a little switch I carry around in my pocket and it pop it out for quick matches all the time ha
KoF operated differently probably because the NeoGeo systems could house multiple games in one cabinet that you could switch to. Thus, this meant less of a need to buy multiple cabinets. This was often more financially feasible for arcades, especially in third world countries like places in Latin America and South Africa (where I'm from) and is a big reason why KOF has a bigger presence than Street Fighter when it comes to the arcade era.
Thanks, I had heard of how they operated on carts which could be switched and were very arcade operator friendly but someone who has experience as a player in those regions can make the point better.
SNK had a lot more fighting game IPs in the 90s than Capcom, who also had a lot, but Capcom was more willing to use the SF branding on experimental and lower quality games, or even outsourcing, like SF the Movie arcade (janky attempt to compete with MK's digitized sprites) and SFEX (experimental poly 2.5D game). SNK fighters definitely had a bunch of gameplay variety, and their games pioneered the majority of FG mechanics still used today, but they didn't confine them to a limited number of IPs. That practice carries on today in the live service era where they'll make SamSho and Fatal Fury alongside their flagship KOF, while on the Capcom side you can only expect Street Fighter and maybe another Marvel if you cross your fingers
That s a great point! However over time I think the street fighter model ended up being stronger in that these days all those versions of kof just kinda blend together to where players just have to pick 98 and 2002 and the rest kinda fade into history. Whereas now sf2, sf alpha, and sf3 all have distinctive audiences and game design which I think has held up better over time. That s my opinion but I do like KOF
Regarding the Neo Geo MVS, the games were very easy to pirate. That was one of the main reason why SNK face a lot of financial problems during the late 90s
Great Video overall. I found really interesting the idea of measuring videogames success not by their sales But by how many years in the future after they stop getting updated they still are being actively played
Exactly! That is something that I think is extremely important which doesn't get acknowledged a lot. There are a lot of games that come and go, but the ones that persist over time are really special and tend to be the most influential
it's kind of 'step one' for any art criticism. We wouldn't need critics if $$$ was all that counted. Influence is how we actually measure success in art and it takes a lot of cultural knowledge to assess that.
Man, this is a good one. Lines like "system mechanics are context sensitive" and "the parry exists to subvert setplay" are why I keep coming back to this channel, that's excellent analysis
great thing about third strike is how casual players can still sometimes accidentally pull cool shit off. As a kid I played against my brother and getting something as simple as an accidental parry into sweep was super hype, and kept me pushing onwards despite getting beaten every time. great video man
Agreed positivity! It has great game feel for everyone, whether you want to play it casually or competitively. It also drips with so much style it s hard not to have fun even as a beginner
Sf3:3s let’s not forget is the last hand drawn capcom game and I’m sorry but I’m a 2d guy when it comes to 2d games. Hand drawn sprites age like fine wine. 3d or 2.5 d does not. My wet dream is if capcom adopts arksys style graphics in one of their games, make it alpha 4, cvs3, a versus game but dear god i miss hand drawn sprites. Sf3 also made taunts a viable thing it’s so cool to have your taunt serve a purpose. I wish they brought that back.
That is the dream, especially alpha 4 omg (but without the alpha 3 infinite combo jank ofc) Or actually I also want a street fighter game that plays like mvc2 with easy QC supers on every one lol
Yes it cost them a bunch of money to do, but it was so worth it to this day. One of the best looking fighting games still! I was researching and the production of the game on the first version barely broke even and then 2nd impact and 3rd strike made a small profit, but it's clear Capcom were putting so much effort into the game because of their passion for the project, rather than purely to make profits. In the end though with all the console ports 3s finally did bring Capcom money. It s a long long term investment that still Endures to this day.
It would be great seeing sprites again but since they're so expensive, Capcom would either take a huge financial loss or sell it at a high price. Though I'm not a big 3s guy, I do love how it looks and would pay a high price to have a sprite fighting game.
@@TheElectricUnderground I sometimes wonder if arcades were still booming when SF3 had been released if it would have been a crazy popular game. You see how much love the game gets nowadays that everyone knows about it, but when it came out up until street fighter 4 got released, the vast majority of people who did not live near an arcade had no idea that there had ever been another street fighter game released after the Alpha series.
when games like KOF XIII and Guilty Gear Xrd/Strive exist, it is ABSOLUTELY embarrassing how awful sf4, 5, and 6 look. ive said since sf4 that 4, 5, and 6 are not mainline Street Fighter, they are Street Fighter EX games in both art direction and gameplay. 3rd Strike was the last true Street Fighter.
I like 6 a lot. They refined the 3d graphics and has that beautifull RE Engine touch. Now IV and V are indeed weird. Saying infinitely is infinitely exagerated.
24:53 that was exactly how I felt Capcom just was in late CPS2 through CPS3 and NAOMI. Vampire Savior, MvC2, Garou: MotW, CvS2, even Melee, or GGXXAC all have that unsupervised kids left in the amusement park alone kind of feel. Hell of a learning curve to learn how to work all the rides but we figured it out and still survive 😂
Yeah that is the classic arcade design philosophy that I love. Where games were balanced around fundamental principals which left players a lot of agency. Whereas now devs go in and install guard rails over everything so nothing gets too wild (or interesting)
I’m a Darkstalkers fan. Love the game, the gameplay, the characters, everything about it. I never got to play the games in an arcade setting until this year when I went to EVO and it was in the arcade alley. I played the game on consoles of the past & present with pad and fight stick, but here was my chance to play with a proper stick & button layout. Vampire Savior has a push block system similar to the Marvel Vs series only you have to rapidly press unique attack buttons while blocking for the percentage of opportunity to push the opponent off you, which seems needlessly complicated and impossible until I saw top tier players swipe their hands across the buttons, the intended way to utilize the pushback for Vampire Savior. After having played the game for decades, I learned tech I never knew. The 90s Capcom era is currently being looked back upon as an era of glut, where oversaturation led to the death of the fighting game scene, and while that’s not entirely untrue, I feel that’s not the best way of looking at it. The mid-late 90s, when Capcom brought out numerous franchises, led to such creativity and innovation, where gameplay elements introduced in one series would be brought over and refined in another, seen especially in the triumverate of Marvel, Alpha, and Darkstalkers. Such innovation led to the latest entries being praised as the best of their series. It’s telling that in 2013, when Darkstalkers Resurrection failed to relaunch the franchise, the excuse of “fighting game glut” was bandied about as part of the reason, except likely the number of games out were but a fraction of the numbers in the 90s. I hope one day Capcom releases more franchises to bring back the cross-pollination of ideas that led to stronger games and truly bring back the FGC spirit of old.
I'd like to push back a bit on the intro of the video (not the actual analysis of 3rd strike) cause I feel its missing some of the context from back then. First, it equates SF 3 with 3rd Strike, which basically glosses over New Generation and 2nd Impact. On its release in the arcades, New Generation was weird, unrefined and unbalanced (though graphically excellent - i actually love it). So the "betrayal" and "black sheep" angle actually came with NG - 3rd strike being a iterative update on all the ideas left unrealized in NG. But by then it was too late - the 3 series was already dead for the greater public. For more on that I recommend the SF3 oral history article over at Polygon. Second, the whole "let's dump most of the cast and do a soft reboot for the third game" was not exclusive to SF3 in the old arcade scene. Back then, Fatal Fury 3, Samurai Shodown 3, Art of Fighting 3 (and to some lesser extent Mortal Kombat 3) also had different styles and casts. But like SF3 none of them were really popular and were quickly erased through iterative sqeuals (Samurai Shodown IV, Fatal Fury Real Bout (Special) and UMK3 walked back on a lot of the soft reboot stuff). Love your stuff though so keep it coming - cant get enough talk about older arcade games
One of, if not the very best video breakdowns I've ever seen on 3rd Strike, the nature of fighting game design, and the current state of the scene vs old school days. Awesome work dude!!
I put Vampire Savior in that same elite category. High level Vampire Savior is insane to watch and the skill sets required to compete at that level are of the highest order.
It's also such a blindingly fast game. Easily my favorite Capcom fighter next to Alpha 3. I'd love to see what the audience would feel seeing VSAV as the retro title for Evo.
@@dangerousshoes Wow. I had no idea you loved Vampire Savior that much! I'm surprised you never popped into my channel and subbed. And yes, the Alpha series was a favorite of mine too, so I get it. 😄
Oh the memories. Lived through the whole Street Fighter evolution. By the time 3rd came out I was in a 24 hour arcade playing till 2am every night, going to work the next day tired. $1 for two credits, man what a cheap half an hour. Ah, the parry and the long jump . Also played cave shooters Ketsui and Mushihimesama. And Battle Gear 3 (racing) with the online key system to mod your car and world ranked times. That was the last real arcade in Auckland, they died out after that, about 2005-6.
I think fighting game character balance is really overrated… it’s just like you said, the game design today is philosophically in a place where it’s too polite, it’s too safe. They kind of don’t take risks otherwise you risk breaking the sacred game balance. Which really is a tragedy of the commons type of situation because being fearless when designing things, you may end up with broken stuff but you also cover a lot more of the exploration space so you also get much more innovative. What are some innovative designs in modern fighting games? Can’t think of anything that really stands out even though I find SF6 for example solid… it plays well even though it may get a bit boring at times.
Forced balance is IMHO the dumbest thing that's ever happened to fighting games. Instead, of attacking the main issues that's plagued fighting games since the dawn of their inception: The base mechanics itself. And not any bullshit burst system like guilty gear or a band aid defense patch like the drive system in sf6. Once devs learn to get fgcs out of that base rut it's been in since the early 2000s we'll have another golden era.
This game reminds me of my friend who died a couple years ago. He was a Hugo main and I have vivid memories of him just destroying people with Hugo lol. He always played the wrestler character like zangief. Best sf player I ever met, RIP brother! Also this is the last game I remember playing at arcades before the scene started dying off...this game just makes me feel very nostalgic and bittersweet😔
I'm 10 minutes into the video, but I think you've concluded with your points about the topics in the intro by this point and move on to talking about 3S as a game, but generally I find your evaluation of console games and the "live service" model just entirely unfounded, especially in relation to how arcades were. I think a lot of what you say about the arcade design is fair analysis, but it's more just a "smart business decision" rather than "this is how arcades were," because even in your preamble to this idea you mention a couple games that buck the trend you're saying was the norm with KoF and Tekken. Those are games that are incredibly iterative and focus on legacy design (and still do to this day) which is entirely contrary to your point with Street Fighter. I agree that it was smart of Capcom to make every new mainline SF title an individual pillar that stands on its own so that new and old games could succeed next to each other, but I fundamentally disagree that this was an arcade thing. Another series that was also very iterative in the arcades was Guilty Gear. You had Missing Link which is a very rough early outline for the series, but when X and XX roll around the series locked in for a decade into that being what Guilty Gear was. You had +R fans at the time complaining about how simplified and easy Xrd was compared to +R, but the reality of it was Xrd just went back to # Reload instead of being an AC revision. And to even further argue against the points you're making, you say that console games and live service design has forced devs into this iterative style of design where the new game eats the old game so it MUST have the DNA of the old game, but let me counter this idea with Guilty Gear once again. It's no hot take to say that Strive is a huge massive fundamental shift in the Guilty Gear series, that by this point has changed how every part of the game works, to such a degree that only in the most abstract sense does it resemble the prior games, in the same abstract way that SF Alpha is an iteration of SF2, except I would argue that the difference between XX/Xrd and Strive is even more vast than SF2 to Alpha, but Strive still ate Xrd despite both games being so vastly different because that's simply what the playerbase does now, the majority of players play the latest entry in a series instead of the 20 year old entry even though the old entry might still have a smaller and more dedicated playerbase. Even outside the realm of fighting games, if you want to get into the most live-est service-est games ever created by man, look no further than free to play mobile games. One of the biggest developers right now in the F2P live service mobile space is Hoyoverse, and they currently have 3 major pillar titles running simultaneously. Genshin Impact, Honkai Star Rail, and now Zenless Zone Zero. Genshin is an open world action adventure Zelda Breath of the Wild game with puzzles and dungeon crawling, Honkai Star Rail is a turn based RPG in space, and Zenless Zone Zero is a real time action game with combos and juggles and perfect parries and perfect dodging. They are all entirely different games for the exact reasons you outlined Capcom did in the arcades, so they can stand side by side with each other. You're greatly conflating the business decisions of 20+ years ago to being how a certain area of business was, which wasn't even true back then, to argue about how new things on console are different in this very specific way, which isn't true now. There's nothing stopping Capcom from making a drastically different fighting game just like ArcSys did with GG Strive, they just choose not to. Probably because they don't want to take risks and lose out on making money, because all game development is profit incentivized and they would rather make safe money than gamble. Speaking of which, you say this yourself towards the end of this 10 minute intro, about how even an indie game wouldn't have the profit motive to make a game like 3S. Have you heard about Yatagarasu? Because to me it kinda sounds like you haven't. Not that it's gonna be exactly like 3S, the devs behind it have their own vision for what they want the game to be and it has its own unique quirks compared to 3S in ways that a 3S purist probably wouldn't agree with, but if you want to talk about a game that is running contradictory to profit incentives, look no further. Game was crowd funded and said they were going to add rollback netcode and never did. Disappeared for years only to come back with a sequel release that is actually just a revision update with 3 new characters and barely any balance changes, still doesn't add rollback netcode. Maybe this sequel to you works to your argument of live service games and the new game eating the old game since it is just a revision, but I feel you could easily make the same argument about the various revisions of SF2 and how, sure, some people prefer Hyper Fighting, but most people just moved on to ST and that became the dominant version of SF2, or how no one really plays New Generation or Second Impact because 3S ate those games and became the real version of SF3. Maybe live service was here the whole time. Anyways, I'm gonna watch the rest of the video, just wanted to get my thoughts out about the intro segments.
It's becoming increasingly clear that he's out of his element when talking about fighting games(especially old FGC and "dark ages" times) and many 3d action games/action RPGs. Where his takes are surface layer, reddit/online sentiment researched, and very touristy/new money. His shootemup, and beaten up/belt scroller content is the meat of this channel, and the stronger content. I do hope that his tone would loosen on the "matter of factly" delivery, as it creates contention when unnecessary or could easily be avoided. But maybe that's what people like this have to do, to grow channels.
Never saw a Third Strike cabinet until around 2010 when a small local arcade imported a dual Japanese machine. It became THE go to machine for just about everyone and it single handedly started a local FGC here in San Antonio.
Ohh yeah I should have clarified throw invul Iframes, yeah that s what I meant. Where you use dash to bait throws, which is a really cool nuance to the games throw system
Hello Mark Electric Underground I would like to inform you that I had a dream where I was in an arcade convention and I bumped into you and wanted to talk about how you inspired me to start playing arcade games and you proceeded to call me a casual and started explaining why some Wario game was a masterpiece
is it just me or does 3rd strike look freakin cool, while the more recent sf games look weird? sf6 in particular, something about the art direction in that game looks weird to me. the character models have this uncanny effect, almost like q or hugo in 3rd strike but every character is that way, they move like they're something abnormal going on neurologically. i thought the same about 4 when it came out but its style has grown on me, so idk
With the recent Terry teaser trailer, I've seen some people talking about Street Fighter 6's graphics again. The thing with SF6 is that sometimes the games looks incredible, but in the world tour and some of the close-ups on the characters faces can make them look very awkward. In my opinion, the Street Fighter series was never meant to look photoreaslistic, ever since the first game in the series it had a very comic/anime look, with the Alpha series and III going for a more anime style. IV and V went for a more stylized look, very cartoony, though it had its problems
I played 3rd strike in the arcades for over 10 years and watched every arcade with it slowly shut down over time. I can still play it on console but nothing compares to the feeling of competitive arcade gameplay and atmosphere of the old days.
I would personally squeeze Alpha 3 into this category as well, but yes, we will never see another game like Third Strike. I remember some local arcades running more than one cabinet. It was a shame that this game was a little overshadowed by the gaming tech gold rush pushing 3D to the forefront. 2D gaming was still innovative and doing great in the arcades where I live. I spent a small fortune playing Street Fighter 2 and Third Strike dropping made it worth every quarter. This period was my favorite stretch of Arcade fighting games.
Kudos for the 3rd Strike Online Edition love. I already have it on my PS3 but I’m thinking about grabbing it on 360 just in case. The game has some of the best sprite work in any fighting game ever made and it feels great to play against the computer, even if you completely ignore the parrying mechanic. The game looks so much more visually appealing than any fighting game Capcom has made in years - as do Garou MOTW (which was a marvel considering how much it squeezed out of the original Neo Geo hardware compared to the far more advanced CPS-3) and some other late Neo Geo games like Last Blade 2.
Funny that games on the stock NeoGeo games run laps around the entire CPS 123 library, there's nothing like Metal Slug 3 on CPS#, even though you'd think it could handle it considering SF3-Warzard-JoJo's. Even pre-rendered games like Strikers 1945+ or Blazing Star graphically beats any similar CPS title
This video explains the street fighter strategy in the 90s better than I have ever heard. They were definitely companion pieces. It may confuse newer players-even older players-too.
I was trying to get into Street Fighter III: 3rd Strike at one point, but I’m already sick of parries, and the balance issues made it a lot less appealing to me. Even though I probably wouldn’t touch it, Alpha 3’s kusoge aspect looks a lot more interesting. Street Fighter needed that wildcard element to stand out to me as a series. Whether it's the aggressiveness and parry system of 3rd Strike or the creativity and atmosphere of Alpha 3, the series needed something distinctive to catch my interest.
Most peopel hated SF 3 then or completely were apathetic to it. It failed saleswise for a reason. Literally any other game blows it away in terms of Sales. It put the series in a coma for a decade for a reason. It was so much failure. To claim people who latched on to long after the fact who never played it in arcades completely invalidates the notion it endured. It didn't it simply found a completely difference audience who didn't grow up with it ni Arcades. That is not the same thing. SF 2 endures as the greatest fighting game for a reason and doesn't require revisionist history or ignoring it's sales to justify that. Even the Alpha series blew away SF 3 in terms of sales as it was Alpha 3 was released multiple times with new versions. No one gave a F**k about SF 3 to bother with that. It wasn't worthy of our time.
I remember when I got 3rd strike on Dreamcast, non of my friend wanted to play it saying it was'nt a true sf.... Felt in love with this game instantly and never stopped playing it and finally got them into it.
excellent video! Really captured the hype that SF3 had. It's a shame it was so hard to find in arcades in the west, arcades were dying but luckily I had one.. then I moved and never saw it again. I really identify that game as being a major part of my life. Loved it.
Best video covering third strike I’ve ever seen. Love the consideration of arcade vs console experiences. One more thing id like to say about parry’s interaction with crouching damage buff. Light normals and certain special moves can be parried low, which removes the left/right mixup, but going for the safer low parry opens you up to eat a more damaging mid starter combo. Just shows capcom’s mastery over risk reward.
"One character is the best balance" What if you had a fighting game with really only one character and it had a hundred moves available. No pre-fight customization, really have all moves in one character available during the fight somehow. Shang Tsung but without having to transform. No idea how to make the moves available because of the input problem. Maybe an arcade controller with 20 buttons. Sounds like a really unique game!
Absolutely! And I do hope in this vid I explained why the arcade model created such bold compelling design which feels so lacking these days from the genre.
Thank you for this video. As a former 3S player who loved this game from the 1st time I played it at my local aracde this video really explains why 3S is so special and why its still loved to this day great video bro.
Mark, I understand where you're coming from but I think you romanticize the developers and their design philosophies back in arcade days a bit too much. They implemented these design choices because it was profitable at that time. As you said, they made Street fighter 2, Alpha and Third Strike in distinct styles because they could keep selling multiple cabinets to the arcade owners. None of these games would really replace one another. Again, profitable strategy at the time. I bet if the technology was advanced enough where gaming companies could implement DLC's and live service models back in the 90s, they would definitely do it. At the end of the day, video game industry is a business just like every other industry out there. Even though I appreciate and acknowledge good game designs and the effort behind them, I still keep this fact back in my mind. Anyway dude, my take might sound a bit negative but I love your takes on games. They're really unique. Keep up the good work!
Growing up with all the IIs and Alpha series going crazy in the 90s, I thought I was late to the game back in '04 playing 3rd strike for the first time (mpls scene, everyone had those MAS sticks) 🤣🤣 It was hands down the best fighting game for me to play competitively. Just got back from a trip to Osaka & Tokyo, and it's awesome that every arcade I visit peeps still playing and kicking ass in 3rd strike. Granted these aren't the arcades in the malls that usually have only latest machines/driving/music stuff.
Dig the video! I appreciate as well the thoughts about the design that go beyond either "Third Strike = GOAT" or a focus on difficulty of games, even though for sure some of the latter was there. The whole character/artistic lens is one that's not common among content creators and, I think, well put.
The best overview of 3rd strike I think I'v ever seen. I especially like the commentary on balance, something I'v thought for awhile is that the main way modern games balance large rosters is simply by making the characters more similar, they tend to do pretty much the same thing just slightly better or worse in some areas. In 3rd Strike by comparison you have some vastly different characters which exist together in the same game, such different characters with different win conditions playing against each other is a lot what makes the game so fun and diverse.
Well I think the skeleton of the games is essentially the same, but sf5 stripped out so much that it feels deprived in the end. Sf5 is a sad but strong example of how the specifics of how a game is designed is just as important as the concepts themselves. So think of it like a root with branches. The root is sf4 and 5 and 6 are two different branches of that root.
The punish windows were also smaller and you sometimes had to go for a single hit and confirm into a special. They are also increasing frames given to input combos, even if the games were the same speed, arcade era fighters would still finish the combo before the latter. Add to that, the combos are getting longer, even for punishing, and cinematic supers only adds to the slowing down of the action. Instead of a constant flow of action with little breathing room, they a breaking it up as much as possible.
Besides parry, whatever dislikes I have with it aren't SF3 specific. I like parry as a concept, I don't approve of it being a single motion tap with no whiff animation for how high the reward can be as the risk isn't always high. You're not parrying raw Chun supers all the time. I don't like character tools being locked behind meter. Gaining meter on whiff. Gaining meter for getting hit as a comeback mechanic. I like a fast dash, but I also don't want it at the expense of potentially slower movement speed. Everyone should be fast all of the time. I feel like people that call it overrated don't all call it for the same reasons. It's not like anyone ever talks down the visual presentation and music. It's mostly how the modern impression of the game is comprised of people that never really played the game at its time and they're now the majority. Their impression of it almost always comes from the EVO moment parry. A mechanic that defines the game more than it has right to. It's rare and situational and requires the players to have played each other long enough for the guesses to be anything more than blind fishing. You are most likely not playing anyone who has real intent to use projectiles besides the odd Denjin Ryu. The cast is both small and underused to even further thin it and parry is a contributor to that. Street Fighter 3 is like Touhou - most people that like it and talk about it don't play it. You can make rewarding hard reads in any fighting game even without parry. Parry is just a flashier way to go about it. There is no game that doesn't allow for it. Don't pretend SF3 invented hard reads. There are few duos more iconic than "We should play Third Strike. It's awesome!" and then not playing Third Strike ever.
A lot of the types playing it these days never get passed B rank on fightcade. or have played it at a high level offline where it is 2x better. doesnt make it not a stale game. your on the ball with the hard read part. but theres also all the parry OS parrying on minus, air parry being very safe and most anti airs being very low damage comparative to the jump in unload tiny super bar characters. the argument that this games balance is fine because parry exists is probably 1/3rd true once the parry happens what do you get out of that? if that were the case oro SA2 should be god tier but he isnt because parrying does very little to move the tier list. what does move the tier list are confirmable lows that blow up people on parry cooldown mis inputting hado-walk. all of yuns normals having super priority ken being advantageous in almost any scenario. Parrying with Q will only go so far. the game is fun at a super casual level . taking it seriously is asking for years of dedication for a game you will ultimately realize is actually poorly thought out.
Honestly 3rd strike is just such a good game that still holds up till today just looking at what happened this past evo 3rd strike was likely the best game in the event
As much as I'm still a casual enjoyer of Street Fighter + fighting games in general, I still think it's one of the greatest fighting games in 1999, no matter if it's 1P VS. CPU games or if it's PVP matches. No matter if it's on Arcade, Dreamcast, PS2 or XBOX. Casual, or competitive. All because of the excellent game flow that this game has. I adored this video, even if I'm at the first minutes of it!
Absolutely Fantastic video… I’m a fight game casual and have zero skill but I love observing the community and this video was extremely educational for me. Parts of it felt like an economic course on how to service a market with different products depending on the markets expectation and environment. Absolutely loved it. Subbed.
Yeah I think this needs to be discussed a lot more, because I think if people start seeing the games tiers and uneven tiers as having a really interesting effect on a game's design that is not just outright a flaw ha. Usually really healthy games tend to have the right characters be top tier and the right characters be lower tier ha
@TheElectricUnderground this is literally just cope for third strike lmao. Yun and chun being top tier is super un healthy for the game considering they are both degenerate
Well said. But the things you are talking about is an endless depression when trying to explain something to someone younger when they didn't go through the things you did as someone older. Get off my lawn! Me, and 2 of my best friends, werre ADDICTED to Street Fighter II since the original version came out in the arcades (and donut shops, and bolwing alleys, and pizza parlors, anywhere we could find opponents to grapple with) with the Guile glitches like invisible throw and handcuffs. Then we got championship edition and so on and so forth. I have logged literally close to 10,000 hours on Street Fighter II and it's various updates. It was my religion. After spending thousands of dollars and hours on Street Fighter II I just wasn't capable of doing that again with the next iteration. I did play Alpha 1-3 but never gave it my all. When Street Fighter III came out I was amazed at the difference and the animations and the characters but just didn't have the energy to learn another fighting game. I never put a quarter into a Mortal Combat arcade or any other fighting game ever. I gsave Street Fighter II everything that was in me. I love Street Fighter III from a distance, I just don't have the motivation to learn it. But it looks absolutely amazing and beautiful and that Daigo Chun Li reversals in that tournament is the stuff of legends. Not sure we will ever see another Street Fighter II OR Street Fighter III. IV, V and VI are just more of the same. Blah blha blah,
Good stuff. I am not nuanced in these things, but when you mentioned roster and balance, the end of SF4 was a ton of fun for me to watch because people from all over the world who were character specialists were showing up and putting up results. Good times. 3rd Strike, MvC2 and Melee will always be at the top for me.
3rd Strike is fun to watch. I don't care much for playing it competitive tbh but I respect the game. I was always more of a Garou person. I do find the game to be overhyped a bit but it is stature is deserved. It's just an imbalanced mess competitively imo. I don't think any other SF game has this kind of disparity in tiers the way this game does (Alpha 2 Rose and Champion Edition Guile come very close). I played Makoto, Dudley and Ken and it doesn't even feel like characters like Q, Twelve and Necro are even getting to play the same game.
I had never been able to get into fighting games. I understood little bits about them, and would try to pursue it from time to time, but just never found something that captivated me, something that "clicked". It was a real shame too, as my roommate was big on em and i wanted to share in his hype. Then one day, we found a cabinet of 3rd Strike at an attic arcade in the middle of town, and the style, sharpness, characterization, responsiveness in the funky sound design of it... suddenly I found myself saying "yea, that makes sense!". It has since become a minor addiction, been playing a little bit here and there for the last few months, absolutely charming gem, and Im stoked to see it tear up the stage again at Evo 🎉
The reality is that most people DID reject SF3. Most preferred playing variants of SF2, Alpha or Vs games. I think a lot of that had to do with lack of compelling or familiar characters. If you’ve been a Blanka player for years, SF3 betrayed your loyalty. Anyway, I prefer SF2CE & Alpha 2 or 3. Rarely play 3. I kept trying to see what others have seen in it but beyond the pretty graphics, it’s not for me. Neither are the VS games.
SF3, I think they are trying to bring in some of the formulas of Vampire Savior to Street Fighter franchise without really turning it into a Marvel-esque game.
I love seeing the concept of "balance through imbalance" being championed so heavily in your vids. It's something I've always believed in strongly even in non-competitive games due to providing choice and player-driven difficulty selection that's not just menu-based difficulty. Fromsoft does this pretty heavily with everything being wildly imbalanced in a way that ultimately balances out, and every time they get called out for it from the players it just pains me to see how myopic most players are not understanding how superior that is to pure mathematical balance. Glad your channel's starting to pop off as more people need to get exposed to that type of thinking.
Mathematical balance, a very common comparison tool that does not create reliable, gameplay experience, competitive or non-competitive due to multiple variables within systems and pacing
I’ve said this three times and I’ll say it again. SF3: 3rd Strike and MvC2 are examples of how to make a good fighting game. They are mechanically deep, have a blisteringly fast pace (though 3rd Strike isn’t as fast as MvC2), and are so goddamn fun.
Agreed!!! I m really excited to dig into mvc2 when the collection comes out! I really hope they do more with the game than just bare bones modes like the sf 30th collection
It is the player's fault. People wanted so much 3d graphics at the time and those 2d graphics take lot of work and time, so SF3 failed and SI and 3S made a little proffit only. SNK gave up on 2d too after showing peak 2d graphics with KOFXIII and here we are. Ater all that people started to love and worship the game and all but it was too late and Capcom moved on.🤷♀️
The entire vibe of the game and it's history really made me fall in love with the game and you always learn something new in this game. Only thing I hate is Chun Li but that's only a small problem for me.
I find it weird how after evo people are all of the sudden popping out of the woodwork making videos about it, and claiming it as the greatest game ever made when I haven't heard from or seen any of these people in the community beforehand. If you loved the game so much and thought it was so great, why weren't you playing it?
Sf6 has arcade releases too. There’s one at the arcade in the mall where i live. It’s a Japanese import that isn’t in english, but it’s a real thing that exists
@@williamalbatross4677 There is still a distinction between games which started with arcade releases (where they gradually got location tests and improvements) and games which also have arcade releases like SF6 which is totally in sync with the console release and released later. I think beta tests can allow some of the same effect from being in arcades as far as development changes, but otherwise it is a very different model as people would pay to play at an arcade.
SF6 is nothing like USF4, not iterativeness. SF5 killed off air normal variety and linking lights up to fierce. FADC isn’t the drive system, and in USF4, classic “shimmies” weren’t a thing yet because teching a throw just gave you low short, fast recovery.
one thing i think is dope bout 5 is the expressive power of resets and mixups. akira, kage and a few others have some fun left right stuff, a little vs game like
I am ridiculously bad at parrying. I don't do it because I'm bad at it and am bad at it because I don't do it. Very self-defeating, I guess. Anyway, Yang is getting more popular? That's nice. I tend to play Yang, because I also play him in 2nd Impact.
Parrying in Street Fighter III is very difficult, but I think it has to do with the fact that you have to move forward towards the attack which kind of goes against all logic for most people. Garou: Mark of the Wolves does have a similar mechanic to parrying, called Just Defense, but in MotW you have to move the stick like your trying to defend, which can result in an accidental Just Defend if your timing is right, which I think makes it much more natural when you discover how to do it
Cool, a 3rd Strike video! It's my favorite fighting game. Saw the Evo moment video back in 05' or 06', and it got me into the game. Didn't even know there was a third Street Fighter game or series when you include the others, so the Evo moment footage was also seeing the game for the first time. I got hooked, signed up on srk forums and got into my local scene for a minute. A couple years later sf4 comes out and I honestly was hyped about it initially, but I found out through playing it, it just wasn't as enjoyable as 3S and it's been like that since.
Pretty good vid overall! I think some of the ways ya described modern tittles as more homogeneous was a bit too dismissive of how they are different at times. Strive in particular is a odd example, given how much it's critized by being the most different from older main tittles. (Myself included to a extend, I dislike stuff like the new air dashes and how a lot of character kits were adapted/changed) But still a interesting view of capcom's design phylosophy during that arcade time, and how it pushed them to make their games as distinct from the other as they can be. Another small criticism is the way ya described Urien. Like ya said it will be wack if a character with the unblockables he has would be top tier, and is good he kinda sucks... When he is usually considered high tier and pretty good in my experience, hell the lists ya shared in the vid marks him as such lol. Personally I would be fine with him being top tier, because of similar reasons of how ya described the 3 main top tiers, would be a interesting challange to learn to fight, and the meta of the game would adapt around him over time. But I get Yun, Chun and Ken fit the fundamentals of the game better Also ya mention there being no special moves that can prevent the parry. Generally true, but there are sorta some exeptions. The first hit of akuma's kkz super cannot be parried at all. Tbf ya can parry the rest after blocking the first hit, so relatively minor, but yeah I very much like the way ya described third strike neutral as freeform jazz, as opposed to the super intellectual thing many describe it as. I think third strike is way more easy to pick up, than many say as a result. Is really straightforward, and ultimately, even the shittiest lower tier can shine, because of stuff like the parry system, and its limitations ya described, allowing skill to be the main thing to shine above all So great stuff, always love sreing third strike content :]
3rd Strike has fantastic mechanics and is such a great fighting game, fundamentally. 17:08 You are so, so right about this, and that’s what makes the parry system so great. The problem with 3rd Strike is its balance; the top tiers are just busted and are so much better than the rest of the cast. Top 8s are usually just Chuns, Yuns, and a random character or two. It's a shame they never rebalanced it (i.e., SFIII: 4th ..... collision.... i dunno).
I liked Third Strike but it was definitely a betrayal to the SF series and those who hold it with high esteem seem to have a total distain for the very things that makes 2D fighter distinct from psuedo 3D fighters like Tekken, with its hyper focus on mixups above it's zoning, spacing, footsies, turtling, etc. Just try to imagine how the parry system could nullify classic characters who are diverse in their playstyles like Vega, Bison, Dhalsim, etc. The low tier characters in 3S reflect this fact.
Sadly arguably none of these. I have 30th anniversary on steam and you can find games occasionally but depending where you are in the world it could be lag ridden. Fightcade is really the only place to get reliable matches and especially for 3rd Strike as its easily the most popular game on Fightcade. I'd be interested to know if there is much of a community on Ps4/5. Unfortunately without crossplay in the 30th anniversary collection the community is split. The 30th anniversary collection is a great anthology though for practice so for the right price it is worth owning a copy.
Keep in mind 3rd Strike is the 3rd iteration of Street Fighter 3. First was New Generation, second was Double Impact. All 3 had the parry system which was completely different in each game.
"if you came to arcades and said 'ye this is basically SF2 but with some small updates' no owner would want to buy that" Maaaaaan, you haven't paid much attention to street fighter 2 or 3 have you. 3 has 2 updated versions in 2nd impact and 3rd strike, and 2 has over half a dozen versions.
This is tangential to the video as a whole, but this is one of the first times I've noticed Analgesic Productions in your patron list. What a small world! They're one of my favorite indie teams.
Feetwork101's 3rd strike film room series is a must watch if you enjoy 3s. He goes over the top players for each character and breaks down aspects of their gameplay like baiting out attacks, preemptively jumping lows etc.
One of modern video games design's biggest problems is the crowbarring of mechanics from other games without any real understanding of how that mechanic was supported by other systems to make that original game excellent as a whole. Again, we see this right across genres, where developers consistently think they're smarter than the giants they're standing on, and lift one part of a classic game thinking it'll magically transform their tripe into ambrosia. If I see one more 4X game with "crafting" in it, I'm gonna tear my own ballsack off.
Oh hell yeah, let’s go! I still play here and there on fightcade despite not being good, but when I want 3rd strike, no other game with do. Best visuals of any fighting game imo
![Lp. Сердце Вселенной #30 ДВА В ОДНОМ [Один человек]• Майнкрафт](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/nrXy15orKhY/mqdefault.jpg)
This might be the first long-form essay on 3s that hasn't made me want to poke my eyes out. Most people with any refined opinion on the game are busy playing it, leaving this kind of content to be pretty frustrating for real enthusiasts of the game. Really nice work.
real enthusiasts already know this/are playing the game to this day.
@@sudacagamer If only someone had mentioned that before. With your reading skills, you must be one of the 3S enthusiasts.
Yes great insight in this video about game design and business
Thank you very much faffel!! I really wanted this vid to stand out from other vids on 3s which I also find kinda frustrating at times. I really love this game and admire what it achieves, which I think gets overlooked in some ways. People know about the parry, but the game is a lot more than that (though the parry is great)
My 3rd strike cab i played back when i was a kid in high school is still in the same exact spot and billiards bar it always has been. such a wonderful place to visit when i go back home.
Wholesome. Very wholesome
Damn ur lucky. Ive got a mvc2 cab nearby but its not maintained and the sticks are fd up
This is so good to hear. They must know it's masterpiece
Oh that is so cool! Rare to see a cab maintained for that long these days. I wish my childhood soul Calibur 2 cab was still around. But it had issues and they just got rid of it
I live outside Omaha and there’s two well maintained TS cabs within 20 minutes of me, you love to see it.
Parrying something you predict is one thing, doing it under pressure is an entirely different matter. And then following it up with a combo ... *Chef's kiss*. Really miss playing Third Strike at a Coney Island restaurant with my friends.
Oh yes and nothing feels better than landing it in the match. I love the way the parry is balanced in this game timing wise, where it s challenging enough to test your nerves, but lenient enough to be reasonable
Post hayao Evo 38 moment
Here before people claim how "overrated" the game is lol
Great timing!! Also how dare they ha. 3s is a beast
@@TheElectricUnderground gaming isn’t dead because indie games and double AA are doing a lot better than triple AAA games please don’t be nostalgia blind.
@@TheElectricUnderground you should play more indie games and double AA games because indie games and double AA games are doing a lot better than triple AAA games, I hope you respond back because I’ve been asking.
I’m not going to stop unless you gave me an answer so please respond back.
@@TheElectricUnderground you should play more indie games and double AA games because indie games and double AA games are doing a lot better than triple AAA games, I hope you respond back because I’ve been asking.
I’m not going to stop unless you gave me an answer so please respond back.
Alpha 3 is better tho
"Even if an indie dev made a Third Strike style game..."
RIP Yatagarasu Attack on Cataclysm 😢
Isn't Blazing Strike supposed to be a 3S-like too?
Every single one of them bungled their international releases in at least one major way.
Yatagarasu had a great run as an indie doujin darling, but as soon as it came west. The Nicalis, Kickstarter and Legend of Raven stuff happened leaving us with a Steam release which is far from being "complete" (even if you didn't care about rollback) unless you only care about the roster and even this year's update after ages of Japan only arcade stuff didn't change enough to get noticed.
For a NEO GEO pocket like game, Pocket Rumble did come out on console but still had a long span of miscommunication and delays. Still Early Access on Steam with no updates in years despite being the most polished game in my comment.
Blazing Strike? I'll hold some of my thoughts till it comes out but between the worst communication of all of these titles, a higher price, no demo/Early Access, a publisher reusing the same poor trailer a year later... I'm glad it is coming out soon for us to finally see a move list. It did have a demo that some people on Patreon may have played at some point but the pre-release period for the last 4 years is only rivaled by Square Enix when they publish a non-FF or DQ RPG.
Yeah it s such a hard model to try to sustain these days. I have a lot of respect for modern indie game that try to be more true to the genres roots, but it s also sad how hard it is for them to survive money wise
@@thelastgogeta damn pocket fighters is a deep cut
to this day, it's still gathering dust in my Steam library, despite the good things it does. I'd need to make ALOT of time for it
I think this game was peak 2d graphics. I loved the music too.
Sprites might be a lost art already
KOF13 is up there, too, when it comes to sprite-based graphics.
Garou and Kof 13 are my favorite but I can see how people put SF3 up there as well
Oh absolutely the cps3 and it's visual design is incredible. So iconic and has stood the rest of time in both music and visuals. The 3s ost is also really fresh still. The games presentation really helps underscore it s free form mechanical design too
Yeah, the default character models I think of when Street Fighter comes to mind are Third Strike’s character models. Iconic.
And in that context, it also makes sense that they thought they could replace the entire cast and bring no one back initially.
wasnt even the same team who did sf2 either. it was some new staff who didnt even have
any experience making a fighting game...
parry is what made sf third strike hype tho. where it got perfected. be real about it.
most fgc wont even brag about new gen or 2nd impact. lol.
Yes exactly! It didn't work out as exactly as they had hoped in the first version of the game, but I think in 3s bringing back a few of the legacy characters and re adapting them to the 3s system was a fun idea. I think 3s does a fantastic job of feeling very fresh but keeping the street fighter spirit
I'm a bit too young to have experienced the arcade era in real-time. The insight you gave about how and why SF3 was so different from SF2 due to the arcade environment (literally) was pretty enlightening, and I love when a channel does that for me. Subscribed!
Thanks very much my dude!! Yes I was on the tale end final days of the arcade era for a lot of fighting games so I was early enough to see this era's ending but late enough to not be too enmeshed in the sf2 scene. So I always tend to encounter the series cabs all together these days ha
I am so pleased every time you drop a micro-rip on RE4 remake.
Ha yeah I really wanted to show that this is a huge different between what 3s does and what resi4 remake does, despite both mechanics being called "parry." Great design needs to be all through the system and limited to exist in that system, vs being thrown over the top of an exiting system and then just balanced with knife durability ha
Arcades didn’t have every Street Fighter title by the end of the ‘90s. The landscape was still fierce. People didn’t play the “outdated” games. You’d see III next to a Tekken Tag, not SF II.
I didn’t play SF3 until I found it in an arcade in London in 2015. I loved how mobile the characters felt compared to other SF games. I was never a hardcore player of SF3, but I keep going back to it just because of the cool style of it.
I love to hear that Philip. I think people underestimate how fun 3s is to play purely on the feel and fun factor, another reason why I play it on arcade mode on highest dip switches to this day. I have a little switch I carry around in my pocket and it pop it out for quick matches all the time ha
KoF operated differently probably because the NeoGeo systems could house multiple games in one cabinet that you could switch to.
Thus, this meant less of a need to buy multiple cabinets. This was often more financially feasible for arcades, especially in third world countries like places in Latin America and South Africa (where I'm from) and is a big reason why KOF has a bigger presence than Street Fighter when it comes to the arcade era.
Thanks, I had heard of how they operated on carts which could be switched and were very arcade operator friendly but someone who has experience as a player in those regions can make the point better.
SNK had a lot more fighting game IPs in the 90s than Capcom, who also had a lot, but Capcom was more willing to use the SF branding on experimental and lower quality games, or even outsourcing, like SF the Movie arcade (janky attempt to compete with MK's digitized sprites) and SFEX (experimental poly 2.5D game). SNK fighters definitely had a bunch of gameplay variety, and their games pioneered the majority of FG mechanics still used today, but they didn't confine them to a limited number of IPs. That practice carries on today in the live service era where they'll make SamSho and Fatal Fury alongside their flagship KOF, while on the Capcom side you can only expect Street Fighter and maybe another Marvel if you cross your fingers
That s a great point! However over time I think the street fighter model ended up being stronger in that these days all those versions of kof just kinda blend together to where players just have to pick 98 and 2002 and the rest kinda fade into history. Whereas now sf2, sf alpha, and sf3 all have distinctive audiences and game design which I think has held up better over time. That s my opinion but I do like KOF
Kof is TRASH
Regarding the Neo Geo MVS, the games were very easy to pirate. That was one of the main reason why SNK face a lot of financial problems during the late 90s
Great Video overall.
I found really interesting the idea of measuring videogames success not by their sales
But by how many years in the future after they stop getting updated they still are being actively played
Exactly! People like super Mario world for its design, not it’s sales numbers.
Yea but the word of mouth about the design lead to the numbers
Exactly! That is something that I think is extremely important which doesn't get acknowledged a lot. There are a lot of games that come and go, but the ones that persist over time are really special and tend to be the most influential
it's kind of 'step one' for any art criticism. We wouldn't need critics if $$$ was all that counted. Influence is how we actually measure success in art and it takes a lot of cultural knowledge to assess that.
Man, this is a good one. Lines like "system mechanics are context sensitive" and "the parry exists to subvert setplay" are why I keep coming back to this channel, that's excellent analysis
great thing about third strike is how casual players can still sometimes accidentally pull cool shit off. As a kid I played against my brother and getting something as simple as an accidental parry into sweep was super hype, and kept me pushing onwards despite getting beaten every time. great video man
Agreed positivity! It has great game feel for everyone, whether you want to play it casually or competitively. It also drips with so much style it s hard not to have fun even as a beginner
Sf3:3s let’s not forget is the last hand drawn capcom game and I’m sorry but I’m a 2d guy when it comes to 2d games. Hand drawn sprites age like fine wine. 3d or 2.5 d does not.
My wet dream is if capcom adopts arksys style graphics in one of their games, make it alpha 4, cvs3, a versus game but dear god i miss hand drawn sprites.
Sf3 also made taunts a viable thing it’s so cool to have your taunt serve a purpose. I wish they brought that back.
That is the dream, especially alpha 4 omg (but without the alpha 3 infinite combo jank ofc)
Or actually I also want a street fighter game that plays like mvc2 with easy QC supers on every one lol
Yes it cost them a bunch of money to do, but it was so worth it to this day. One of the best looking fighting games still! I was researching and the production of the game on the first version barely broke even and then 2nd impact and 3rd strike made a small profit, but it's clear Capcom were putting so much effort into the game because of their passion for the project, rather than purely to make profits. In the end though with all the console ports 3s finally did bring Capcom money. It s a long long term investment that still Endures to this day.
I want SFA4 so bad..... Or Capcom vs SNK 3
It would be great seeing sprites again but since they're so expensive, Capcom would either take a huge financial loss or sell it at a high price. Though I'm not a big 3s guy, I do love how it looks and would pay a high price to have a sprite fighting game.
@@TheElectricUnderground I sometimes wonder if arcades were still booming when SF3 had been released if it would have been a crazy popular game. You see how much love the game gets nowadays that everyone knows about it, but when it came out up until street fighter 4 got released, the vast majority of people who did not live near an arcade had no idea that there had ever been another street fighter game released after the Alpha series.
From a graphics perspective I cannot understand how anyone could possibly conclude that 3rd strike is not infinitely superior to 4 5 and 6 combined
when games like KOF XIII and Guilty Gear Xrd/Strive exist, it is ABSOLUTELY embarrassing how awful sf4, 5, and 6 look. ive said since sf4 that 4, 5, and 6 are not mainline Street Fighter, they are Street Fighter EX games in both art direction and gameplay. 3rd Strike was the last true Street Fighter.
@@romanlockeheart469 100%. I'm sure their profit margin is a lot wider now that all the artists are sacked
Always hated the art design from 4 onwards. Everything just looked like jello.
I like 6 a lot. They refined the 3d graphics and has that beautifull RE Engine touch.
Now IV and V are indeed weird.
Saying infinitely is infinitely exagerated.
@@TheMrCHELL All the body parts and clothing just flop around like jello. It just looks horrible, don't you think so?
24:53 that was exactly how I felt Capcom just was in late CPS2 through CPS3 and NAOMI. Vampire Savior, MvC2, Garou: MotW, CvS2, even Melee, or GGXXAC all have that unsupervised kids left in the amusement park alone kind of feel. Hell of a learning curve to learn how to work all the rides but we figured it out and still survive 😂
Yeah that is the classic arcade design philosophy that I love. Where games were balanced around fundamental principals which left players a lot of agency. Whereas now devs go in and install guard rails over everything so nothing gets too wild (or interesting)
I’m a Darkstalkers fan. Love the game, the gameplay, the characters, everything about it. I never got to play the games in an arcade setting until this year when I went to EVO and it was in the arcade alley. I played the game on consoles of the past & present with pad and fight stick, but here was my chance to play with a proper stick & button layout. Vampire Savior has a push block system similar to the Marvel Vs series only you have to rapidly press unique attack buttons while blocking for the percentage of opportunity to push the opponent off you, which seems needlessly complicated and impossible until I saw top tier players swipe their hands across the buttons, the intended way to utilize the pushback for Vampire Savior. After having played the game for decades, I learned tech I never knew.
The 90s Capcom era is currently being looked back upon as an era of glut, where oversaturation led to the death of the fighting game scene, and while that’s not entirely untrue, I feel that’s not the best way of looking at it. The mid-late 90s, when Capcom brought out numerous franchises, led to such creativity and innovation, where gameplay elements introduced in one series would be brought over and refined in another, seen especially in the triumverate of Marvel, Alpha, and Darkstalkers. Such innovation led to the latest entries being praised as the best of their series.
It’s telling that in 2013, when Darkstalkers Resurrection failed to relaunch the franchise, the excuse of “fighting game glut” was bandied about as part of the reason, except likely the number of games out were but a fraction of the numbers in the 90s. I hope one day Capcom releases more franchises to bring back the cross-pollination of ideas that led to stronger games and truly bring back the FGC spirit of old.
I'd like to push back a bit on the intro of the video (not the actual analysis of 3rd strike) cause I feel its missing some of the context from back then.
First, it equates SF 3 with 3rd Strike, which basically glosses over New Generation and 2nd Impact. On its release in the arcades, New Generation was weird, unrefined and unbalanced (though graphically excellent - i actually love it). So the "betrayal" and "black sheep" angle actually came with NG - 3rd strike being a iterative update on all the ideas left unrealized in NG. But by then it was too late - the 3 series was already dead for the greater public. For more on that I recommend the SF3 oral history article over at Polygon.
Second, the whole "let's dump most of the cast and do a soft reboot for the third game" was not exclusive to SF3 in the old arcade scene. Back then, Fatal Fury 3, Samurai Shodown 3, Art of Fighting 3 (and to some lesser extent Mortal Kombat 3) also had different styles and casts. But like SF3 none of them were really popular and were quickly erased through iterative sqeuals (Samurai Shodown IV, Fatal Fury Real Bout (Special) and UMK3 walked back on a lot of the soft reboot stuff).
Love your stuff though so keep it coming - cant get enough talk about older arcade games
Not only is he glossing over NG and 2I for street fighter 3, but also the half dozen + arcade releases of sf2
@@gman1515yeah that was weird. as if they never came out with minor and major sf2 updates
One of, if not the very best video breakdowns I've ever seen on 3rd Strike, the nature of fighting game design, and the current state of the scene vs old school days. Awesome work dude!!
I put Vampire Savior in that same elite category. High level Vampire Savior is insane to watch and the skill sets required to compete at that level are of the highest order.
It's also such a blindingly fast game. Easily my favorite Capcom fighter next to Alpha 3. I'd love to see what the audience would feel seeing VSAV as the retro title for Evo.
@@dangerousshoes Wow. I had no idea you loved Vampire Savior that much! I'm surprised you never popped into my channel and subbed. And yes, the Alpha series was a favorite of mine too, so I get it. 😄
Oh the memories. Lived through the whole Street Fighter evolution. By the time 3rd came out I was in a 24 hour arcade playing till 2am every night, going to work the next day tired. $1 for two credits, man what a cheap half an hour. Ah, the parry and the long jump . Also played cave shooters Ketsui and Mushihimesama. And Battle Gear 3 (racing) with the online key system to mod your car and world ranked times. That was the last real arcade in Auckland, they died out after that, about 2005-6.
I think fighting game character balance is really overrated… it’s just like you said, the game design today is philosophically in a place where it’s too polite, it’s too safe. They kind of don’t take risks otherwise you risk breaking the sacred game balance. Which really is a tragedy of the commons type of situation because being fearless when designing things, you may end up with broken stuff but you also cover a lot more of the exploration space so you also get much more innovative. What are some innovative designs in modern fighting games? Can’t think of anything that really stands out even though I find SF6 for example solid… it plays well even though it may get a bit boring at times.
Forced balance is IMHO the dumbest thing that's ever happened to fighting games. Instead, of attacking the main issues that's plagued fighting games since the dawn of their inception: The base mechanics itself.
And not any bullshit burst system like guilty gear or a band aid defense patch like the drive system in sf6. Once devs learn to get fgcs out of that base rut it's been in since the early 2000s we'll have another golden era.
This game reminds me of my friend who died a couple years ago. He was a Hugo main and I have vivid memories of him just destroying people with Hugo lol. He always played the wrestler character like zangief. Best sf player I ever met, RIP brother! Also this is the last game I remember playing at arcades before the scene started dying off...this game just makes me feel very nostalgic and bittersweet😔
I'm 10 minutes into the video, but I think you've concluded with your points about the topics in the intro by this point and move on to talking about 3S as a game, but generally I find your evaluation of console games and the "live service" model just entirely unfounded, especially in relation to how arcades were. I think a lot of what you say about the arcade design is fair analysis, but it's more just a "smart business decision" rather than "this is how arcades were," because even in your preamble to this idea you mention a couple games that buck the trend you're saying was the norm with KoF and Tekken. Those are games that are incredibly iterative and focus on legacy design (and still do to this day) which is entirely contrary to your point with Street Fighter. I agree that it was smart of Capcom to make every new mainline SF title an individual pillar that stands on its own so that new and old games could succeed next to each other, but I fundamentally disagree that this was an arcade thing. Another series that was also very iterative in the arcades was Guilty Gear. You had Missing Link which is a very rough early outline for the series, but when X and XX roll around the series locked in for a decade into that being what Guilty Gear was. You had +R fans at the time complaining about how simplified and easy Xrd was compared to +R, but the reality of it was Xrd just went back to # Reload instead of being an AC revision. And to even further argue against the points you're making, you say that console games and live service design has forced devs into this iterative style of design where the new game eats the old game so it MUST have the DNA of the old game, but let me counter this idea with Guilty Gear once again. It's no hot take to say that Strive is a huge massive fundamental shift in the Guilty Gear series, that by this point has changed how every part of the game works, to such a degree that only in the most abstract sense does it resemble the prior games, in the same abstract way that SF Alpha is an iteration of SF2, except I would argue that the difference between XX/Xrd and Strive is even more vast than SF2 to Alpha, but Strive still ate Xrd despite both games being so vastly different because that's simply what the playerbase does now, the majority of players play the latest entry in a series instead of the 20 year old entry even though the old entry might still have a smaller and more dedicated playerbase. Even outside the realm of fighting games, if you want to get into the most live-est service-est games ever created by man, look no further than free to play mobile games. One of the biggest developers right now in the F2P live service mobile space is Hoyoverse, and they currently have 3 major pillar titles running simultaneously. Genshin Impact, Honkai Star Rail, and now Zenless Zone Zero. Genshin is an open world action adventure Zelda Breath of the Wild game with puzzles and dungeon crawling, Honkai Star Rail is a turn based RPG in space, and Zenless Zone Zero is a real time action game with combos and juggles and perfect parries and perfect dodging. They are all entirely different games for the exact reasons you outlined Capcom did in the arcades, so they can stand side by side with each other. You're greatly conflating the business decisions of 20+ years ago to being how a certain area of business was, which wasn't even true back then, to argue about how new things on console are different in this very specific way, which isn't true now. There's nothing stopping Capcom from making a drastically different fighting game just like ArcSys did with GG Strive, they just choose not to. Probably because they don't want to take risks and lose out on making money, because all game development is profit incentivized and they would rather make safe money than gamble.
Speaking of which, you say this yourself towards the end of this 10 minute intro, about how even an indie game wouldn't have the profit motive to make a game like 3S. Have you heard about Yatagarasu? Because to me it kinda sounds like you haven't. Not that it's gonna be exactly like 3S, the devs behind it have their own vision for what they want the game to be and it has its own unique quirks compared to 3S in ways that a 3S purist probably wouldn't agree with, but if you want to talk about a game that is running contradictory to profit incentives, look no further. Game was crowd funded and said they were going to add rollback netcode and never did. Disappeared for years only to come back with a sequel release that is actually just a revision update with 3 new characters and barely any balance changes, still doesn't add rollback netcode. Maybe this sequel to you works to your argument of live service games and the new game eating the old game since it is just a revision, but I feel you could easily make the same argument about the various revisions of SF2 and how, sure, some people prefer Hyper Fighting, but most people just moved on to ST and that became the dominant version of SF2, or how no one really plays New Generation or Second Impact because 3S ate those games and became the real version of SF3. Maybe live service was here the whole time.
Anyways, I'm gonna watch the rest of the video, just wanted to get my thoughts out about the intro segments.
It's becoming increasingly clear that he's out of his element when talking about fighting games(especially old FGC and "dark ages" times) and many 3d action games/action RPGs. Where his takes are surface layer, reddit/online sentiment researched, and very touristy/new money.
His shootemup, and beaten up/belt scroller content is the meat of this channel, and the stronger content.
I do hope that his tone would loosen on the "matter of factly" delivery, as it creates contention when unnecessary or could easily be avoided. But maybe that's what people like this have to do, to grow channels.
Never saw a Third Strike cabinet until around 2010 when a small local arcade imported a dual Japanese machine. It became THE go to machine for just about everyone and it single handedly started a local FGC here in San Antonio.
Hate to be that guy but dashes don't have s in 3S. Some are throw invul tho.
Oro can definitely dash through fireballs in 3s
@@freebando That's because his hurtbox shrinks during the animation, but he has no s still.
@@mariodoccia6129 Please be "that guy". Ironically, we can only get better if "that guy" is in the comments.
Ohh yeah I should have clarified throw invul Iframes, yeah that s what I meant. Where you use dash to bait throws, which is a really cool nuance to the games throw system
Fixed :-)
Evo this year showed perfectly how much time you can put in mid tier characters like Hugo, it was s absolute blast to watch ❤
Greatest 2d fighter of all time imo. The remaster on PS3 is the best version of it too.
Hello Mark Electric Underground I would like to inform you that I had a dream where I was in an arcade convention and I bumped into you and wanted to talk about how you inspired me to start playing arcade games and you proceeded to call me a casual and started explaining why some Wario game was a masterpiece
is it just me or does 3rd strike look freakin cool, while the more recent sf games look weird? sf6 in particular, something about the art direction in that game looks weird to me. the character models have this uncanny effect, almost like q or hugo in 3rd strike but every character is that way, they move like they're something abnormal going on neurologically. i thought the same about 4 when it came out but its style has grown on me, so idk
With the recent Terry teaser trailer, I've seen some people talking about Street Fighter 6's graphics again. The thing with SF6 is that sometimes the games looks incredible, but in the world tour and some of the close-ups on the characters faces can make them look very awkward. In my opinion, the Street Fighter series was never meant to look photoreaslistic, ever since the first game in the series it had a very comic/anime look, with the Alpha series and III going for a more anime style. IV and V went for a more stylized look, very cartoony, though it had its problems
sf6 visually is kind of cringe and generic. sf4 was much cleaner and had its own style.
I played 3rd strike in the arcades for over 10 years and watched every arcade with it slowly shut down over time. I can still play it on console but nothing compares to the feeling of competitive arcade gameplay and atmosphere of the old days.
I would personally squeeze Alpha 3 into this category as well, but yes, we will never see another game like Third Strike. I remember some local arcades running more than one cabinet. It was a shame that this game was a little overshadowed by the gaming tech gold rush pushing 3D to the forefront. 2D gaming was still innovative and doing great in the arcades where I live. I spent a small fortune playing Street Fighter 2 and Third Strike dropping made it worth every quarter. This period was my favorite stretch of Arcade fighting games.
Kudos for the 3rd Strike Online Edition love. I already have it on my PS3 but I’m thinking about grabbing it on 360 just in case.
The game has some of the best sprite work in any fighting game ever made and it feels great to play against the computer, even if you completely ignore the parrying mechanic.
The game looks so much more visually appealing than any fighting game Capcom has made in years - as do Garou MOTW (which was a marvel considering how much it squeezed out of the original Neo Geo hardware compared to the far more advanced CPS-3) and some other late Neo Geo games like Last Blade 2.
2D fighter graphics then: Art of Fighting 3
2D fighter graphics now: Art of farting and pee
If you have a p.c you can play it on fightcade,just about everyone who plays 3s casually or competivly will be there
Funny that games on the stock NeoGeo games run laps around the entire CPS 123 library, there's nothing like Metal Slug 3 on CPS#, even though you'd think it could handle it considering SF3-Warzard-JoJo's. Even pre-rendered games like Strikers 1945+ or Blazing Star graphically beats any similar CPS title
Hell yeah. The online edition on ps3 is the best version of 3rd Strike. I wish they would release it on modern consoles 💯
This video explains the street fighter strategy in the 90s better than I have ever heard. They were definitely companion pieces. It may confuse newer players-even older players-too.
I was trying to get into Street Fighter III: 3rd Strike at one point, but I’m already sick of parries, and the balance issues made it a lot less appealing to me. Even though I probably wouldn’t touch it, Alpha 3’s kusoge aspect looks a lot more interesting. Street Fighter needed that wildcard element to stand out to me as a series. Whether it's the aggressiveness and parry system of 3rd Strike or the creativity and atmosphere of Alpha 3, the series needed something distinctive to catch my interest.
i am honored to have experienced the golden age of arcades growing up , this game was and still is amazing
100%. So lucky to have grown up in that era.
Same tbh it was an incredible time
@@HollowRick Golden age for fighting games.
Most peopel hated SF 3 then or completely were apathetic to it. It failed saleswise for a reason. Literally any other game blows it away in terms of Sales. It put the series in a coma for a decade for a reason. It was so much failure. To claim people who latched on to long after the fact who never played it in arcades completely invalidates the notion it endured. It didn't it simply found a completely difference audience who didn't grow up with it ni Arcades. That is not the same thing. SF 2 endures as the greatest fighting game for a reason and doesn't require revisionist history or ignoring it's sales to justify that. Even the Alpha series blew away SF 3 in terms of sales as it was Alpha 3 was released multiple times with new versions. No one gave a F**k about SF 3 to bother with that. It wasn't worthy of our time.
@@Lastjustice Cap. SF3 is the greatest 2D fighting game and the king of swag.
I remember when I got 3rd strike on Dreamcast, non of my friend wanted to play it saying it was'nt a true sf.... Felt in love with this game instantly and never stopped playing it and finally got them into it.
excellent video! Really captured the hype that SF3 had. It's a shame it was so hard to find in arcades in the west, arcades were dying but luckily I had one.. then I moved and never saw it again. I really identify that game as being a major part of my life. Loved it.
Best video covering third strike I’ve ever seen. Love the consideration of arcade vs console experiences. One more thing id like to say about parry’s interaction with crouching damage buff. Light normals and certain special moves can be parried low, which removes the left/right mixup, but going for the safer low parry opens you up to eat a more damaging mid starter combo. Just shows capcom’s mastery over risk reward.
"One character is the best balance" What if you had a fighting game with really only one character and it had a hundred moves available. No pre-fight customization, really have all moves in one character available during the fight somehow. Shang Tsung but without having to transform. No idea how to make the moves available because of the input problem. Maybe an arcade controller with 20 buttons. Sounds like a really unique game!
Easy to play and understand. Impossibly hard to master-FGC GOD
They really don't make em like they used to
Absolutely! And I do hope in this vid I explained why the arcade model created such bold compelling design which feels so lacking these days from the genre.
I ask, cause I'm not sure. Does anybody make real shit anymore?
@notimportant3033 Depends what your definition of real shit is.
@@Beanjuice15 I'm surprised you didn't catch the reference.
Thank goodness in the case of SF 3. It failed for a F-N reason.
This is a very good commentary on game design and street fighter series in general!
Thank you for this video. As a former 3S player who loved this game from the 1st time I played it at my local aracde this video really explains why 3S is so special and why its still loved to this day great video bro.
3RD STRIKE IS WHAT COUNTS 👊
Mark, I understand where you're coming from but I think you romanticize the developers and their design philosophies back in arcade days a bit too much. They implemented these design choices because it was profitable at that time. As you said, they made Street fighter 2, Alpha and Third Strike in distinct styles because they could keep selling multiple cabinets to the arcade owners. None of these games would really replace one another. Again, profitable strategy at the time.
I bet if the technology was advanced enough where gaming companies could implement DLC's and live service models back in the 90s, they would definitely do it.
At the end of the day, video game industry is a business just like every other industry out there. Even though I appreciate and acknowledge good game designs and the effort behind them, I still keep this fact back in my mind.
Anyway dude, my take might sound a bit negative but I love your takes on games. They're really unique. Keep up the good work!
Clicked faster than the rate of inflation. Bless your wisdom dude, always a good time!
Growing up with all the IIs and Alpha series going crazy in the 90s, I thought I was late to the game back in '04 playing 3rd strike for the first time (mpls scene, everyone had those MAS sticks) 🤣🤣 It was hands down the best fighting game for me to play competitively. Just got back from a trip to Osaka & Tokyo, and it's awesome that every arcade I visit peeps still playing and kicking ass in 3rd strike. Granted these aren't the arcades in the malls that usually have only latest machines/driving/music stuff.
Dig the video! I appreciate as well the thoughts about the design that go beyond either "Third Strike = GOAT" or a focus on difficulty of games, even though for sure some of the latter was there. The whole character/artistic lens is one that's not common among content creators and, I think, well put.
The best overview of 3rd strike I think I'v ever seen. I especially like the commentary on balance, something I'v thought for awhile is that the main way modern games balance large rosters is simply by making the characters more similar, they tend to do pretty much the same thing just slightly better or worse in some areas. In 3rd Strike by comparison you have some vastly different characters which exist together in the same game, such different characters with different win conditions playing against each other is a lot what makes the game so fun and diverse.
Thanks Mark, I know you work really hard on these videos.
I really like your writing style, very smooth transition between segments and really interesting points
nice video on the SF3 aspects, but SF6 plays nothing like SFV wtf. Game design (and meta) wise they are INCREDIBLY different games
Well I think the skeleton of the games is essentially the same, but sf5 stripped out so much that it feels deprived in the end. Sf5 is a sad but strong example of how the specifics of how a game is designed is just as important as the concepts themselves. So think of it like a root with branches. The root is sf4 and 5 and 6 are two different branches of that root.
The punish windows were also smaller and you sometimes had to go for a single hit and confirm into a special. They are also increasing frames given to input combos, even if the games were the same speed, arcade era fighters would still finish the combo before the latter.
Add to that, the combos are getting longer, even for punishing, and cinematic supers only adds to the slowing down of the action. Instead of a constant flow of action with little breathing room, they a breaking it up as much as possible.
Besides parry, whatever dislikes I have with it aren't SF3 specific. I like parry as a concept, I don't approve of it being a single motion tap with no whiff animation for how high the reward can be as the risk isn't always high. You're not parrying raw Chun supers all the time.
I don't like character tools being locked behind meter. Gaining meter on whiff. Gaining meter for getting hit as a comeback mechanic. I like a fast dash, but I also don't want it at the expense of potentially slower movement speed. Everyone should be fast all of the time.
I feel like people that call it overrated don't all call it for the same reasons. It's not like anyone ever talks down the visual presentation and music. It's mostly how the modern impression of the game is comprised of people that never really played the game at its time and they're now the majority. Their impression of it almost always comes from the EVO moment parry. A mechanic that defines the game more than it has right to. It's rare and situational and requires the players to have played each other long enough for the guesses to be anything more than blind fishing. You are most likely not playing anyone who has real intent to use projectiles besides the odd Denjin Ryu. The cast is both small and underused to even further thin it and parry is a contributor to that.
Street Fighter 3 is like Touhou - most people that like it and talk about it don't play it. You can make rewarding hard reads in any fighting game even without parry. Parry is just a flashier way to go about it. There is no game that doesn't allow for it. Don't pretend SF3 invented hard reads.
There are few duos more iconic than "We should play Third Strike. It's awesome!" and then not playing Third Strike ever.
A lot of the types playing it these days never get passed B rank on fightcade. or have played it at a high level offline where it is 2x better. doesnt make it not a stale game. your on the ball with the hard read part. but theres also all the parry OS parrying on minus, air parry being very safe and most anti airs being very low damage comparative to the jump in unload tiny super bar characters.
the argument that this games balance is fine because parry exists is probably 1/3rd true once the parry happens what do you get out of that? if that were the case oro SA2 should be god tier but he isnt because parrying does very little to move the tier list. what does move the tier list are confirmable lows that blow up people on parry cooldown mis inputting hado-walk.
all of yuns normals having super priority ken being advantageous in almost any scenario. Parrying with Q will only go so far.
the game is fun at a super casual level . taking it seriously is asking for years of dedication for a game you will ultimately realize is actually poorly thought out.
i could never learn to parry in street fighter 3. i really loved the art and style of double impact (especially the life bar). looked so amazing.
Honestly 3rd strike is just such a good game that still holds up till today just looking at what happened this past evo 3rd strike was likely the best game in the event
fax
"You want to play street fighter 3, just look a few feet away, it's right there!"
No it's not. My city has zero arcades.
I miss the arcades. Kids today don’t know what they missed. Going with your buddies to game on a cabinet was something cool. The games were so cool.
As much as I'm still a casual enjoyer of Street Fighter + fighting games in general, I still think it's one of the greatest fighting games in 1999, no matter if it's 1P VS. CPU games or if it's PVP matches. No matter if it's on Arcade, Dreamcast, PS2 or XBOX. Casual, or competitive. All because of the excellent game flow that this game has.
I adored this video, even if I'm at the first minutes of it!
Absolutely Fantastic video… I’m a fight game casual and have zero skill but I love observing the community and this video was extremely educational for me. Parts of it felt like an economic course on how to service a market with different products depending on the markets expectation and environment. Absolutely loved it. Subbed.
I agree with your point about lower tier characters.
Yeah I think this needs to be discussed a lot more, because I think if people start seeing the games tiers and uneven tiers as having a really interesting effect on a game's design that is not just outright a flaw ha. Usually really healthy games tend to have the right characters be top tier and the right characters be lower tier ha
@TheElectricUnderground this is literally just cope for third strike lmao. Yun and chun being top tier is super un healthy for the game considering they are both degenerate
winning with a low tier character feels good. and it's sends a nice message
Well said. But the things you are talking about is an endless depression when trying to explain something to someone younger when they didn't go through the things you did as someone older. Get off my lawn!
Me, and 2 of my best friends, werre ADDICTED to Street Fighter II since the original version came out in the arcades (and donut shops, and bolwing alleys, and pizza parlors, anywhere we could find opponents to grapple with) with the Guile glitches like invisible throw and handcuffs. Then we got championship edition and so on and so forth. I have logged literally close to 10,000 hours on Street Fighter II and it's various updates. It was my religion. After spending thousands of dollars and hours on Street Fighter II I just wasn't capable of doing that again with the next iteration. I did play Alpha 1-3 but never gave it my all. When Street Fighter III came out I was amazed at the difference and the animations and the characters but just didn't have the energy to learn another fighting game. I never put a quarter into a Mortal Combat arcade or any other fighting game ever. I gsave Street Fighter II everything that was in me. I love Street Fighter III from a distance, I just don't have the motivation to learn it. But it looks absolutely amazing and beautiful and that Daigo Chun Li reversals in that tournament is the stuff of legends. Not sure we will ever see another Street Fighter II OR Street Fighter III. IV, V and VI are just more of the same. Blah blha blah,
Good stuff. I am not nuanced in these things, but when you mentioned roster and balance, the end of SF4 was a ton of fun for me to watch because people from all over the world who were character specialists were showing up and putting up results. Good times. 3rd Strike, MvC2 and Melee will always be at the top for me.
I remember playing this on Ps2. That was before i moved on to my minecraft mac-ventures 👷♂️
3rd Strike is fun to watch. I don't care much for playing it competitive tbh but I respect the game. I was always more of a Garou person.
I do find the game to be overhyped a bit but it is stature is deserved. It's just an imbalanced mess competitively imo. I don't think any other SF game has this kind of disparity in tiers the way this game does (Alpha 2 Rose and Champion Edition Guile come very close).
I played Makoto, Dudley and Ken and it doesn't even feel like characters like Q, Twelve and Necro are even getting to play the same game.
I had never been able to get into fighting games. I understood little bits about them, and would try to pursue it from time to time, but just never found something that captivated me, something that "clicked". It was a real shame too, as my roommate was big on em and i wanted to share in his hype. Then one day, we found a cabinet of 3rd Strike at an attic arcade in the middle of town, and the style, sharpness, characterization, responsiveness in the funky sound design of it... suddenly I found myself saying "yea, that makes sense!". It has since become a minor addiction, been playing a little bit here and there for the last few months, absolutely charming gem, and Im stoked to see it tear up the stage again at Evo 🎉
The reality is that most people DID reject SF3. Most preferred playing variants of SF2, Alpha or Vs games.
I think a lot of that had to do with lack of compelling or familiar characters. If you’ve been a Blanka player for years, SF3 betrayed your loyalty.
Anyway, I prefer SF2CE & Alpha 2 or 3.
Rarely play 3. I kept trying to see what others have seen in it but beyond the pretty graphics, it’s not for me. Neither are the VS games.
SF3, I think they are trying to bring in some of the formulas of Vampire Savior to Street Fighter franchise without really turning it into a Marvel-esque game.
I love seeing the concept of "balance through imbalance" being championed so heavily in your vids. It's something I've always believed in strongly even in non-competitive games due to providing choice and player-driven difficulty selection that's not just menu-based difficulty. Fromsoft does this pretty heavily with everything being wildly imbalanced in a way that ultimately balances out, and every time they get called out for it from the players it just pains me to see how myopic most players are not understanding how superior that is to pure mathematical balance. Glad your channel's starting to pop off as more people need to get exposed to that type of thinking.
Mathematical balance, a very common comparison tool that does not create reliable, gameplay experience, competitive or non-competitive due to multiple variables within systems and pacing
Great video. Goated channel. Every minute of the vid felt worthwhile unlike 99% of video essays on yt.
I’ve said this three times and I’ll say it again. SF3: 3rd Strike and MvC2 are examples of how to make a good fighting game. They are mechanically deep, have a blisteringly fast pace (though 3rd Strike isn’t as fast as MvC2), and are so goddamn fun.
I’m surprised MvC2 was so popular because it’s so hard to grasp / parse from a beginners standpoint. Definitely fun to just mash out on tho.
Melee fits in there perfectly
@@goob8945the ps3 and 360 versions really did it justice
Agreed!!! I m really excited to dig into mvc2 when the collection comes out! I really hope they do more with the game than just bare bones modes like the sf 30th collection
In my opinion the fun factor matters most. That's why MVC2 is the best one. It is not balanced as well as MVC 3 but way more fun to play
Fighting games are moving up in the world, love to see it.
It comes in waves. Right now, it's on a high. Eventually there will be a crash and for a decade or so, the scene will die down for a bit.
What did you mean by "i-frame" dashes? Dashes in 3S lack invincibility of any kind
Sf3 third strike is just the ultimate street fighter
This game looks beautiful
And is probably the best street fighter game
But the balance is really flawed
Street Fighter 3 was the epitome of the Franchise, still haven’t gotten over Capcom going the 3D rendering route for this series.
Fax 💯
It is the player's fault.
People wanted so much 3d graphics at the time and those 2d graphics take lot of work and time, so SF3 failed and SI and 3S made a little proffit only.
SNK gave up on 2d too after showing peak 2d graphics with KOFXIII and here we are.
Ater all that people started to love and worship the game and all but it was too late and Capcom moved on.🤷♀️
The entire vibe of the game and it's history really made me fall in love with the game and you always learn something new in this game. Only thing I hate is Chun Li but that's only a small problem for me.
I find it weird how after evo people are all of the sudden popping out of the woodwork making videos about it, and claiming it as the greatest game ever made when I haven't heard from or seen any of these people in the community beforehand. If you loved the game so much and thought it was so great, why weren't you playing it?
Sf6 has arcade releases too. There’s one at the arcade in the mall where i live. It’s a Japanese import that isn’t in english, but it’s a real thing that exists
@@williamalbatross4677 There is still a distinction between games which started with arcade releases (where they gradually got location tests and improvements) and games which also have arcade releases like SF6 which is totally in sync with the console release and released later.
I think beta tests can allow some of the same effect from being in arcades as far as development changes, but otherwise it is a very different model as people would pay to play at an arcade.
SF6 is nothing like USF4, not iterativeness. SF5 killed off air normal variety and linking lights up to fierce. FADC isn’t the drive system, and in USF4, classic “shimmies” weren’t a thing yet because teching a throw just gave you low short, fast recovery.
one thing i think is dope bout 5 is the expressive power of resets and mixups. akira, kage and a few others have some fun left right stuff, a little vs game like
I am ridiculously bad at parrying. I don't do it because I'm bad at it and am bad at it because I don't do it. Very self-defeating, I guess. Anyway, Yang is getting more popular? That's nice. I tend to play Yang, because I also play him in 2nd Impact.
Parrying in Street Fighter III is very difficult, but I think it has to do with the fact that you have to move forward towards the attack which kind of goes against all logic for most people. Garou: Mark of the Wolves does have a similar mechanic to parrying, called Just Defense, but in MotW you have to move the stick like your trying to defend, which can result in an accidental Just Defend if your timing is right, which I think makes it much more natural when you discover how to do it
This is super interesting. I never even thought of this!!
Cool, a 3rd Strike video! It's my favorite fighting game. Saw the Evo moment video back in 05' or 06', and it got me into the game. Didn't even know there was a third Street Fighter game or series when you include the others, so the Evo moment footage was also seeing the game for the first time. I got hooked, signed up on srk forums and got into my local scene for a minute. A couple years later sf4 comes out and I honestly was hyped about it initially, but I found out through playing it, it just wasn't as enjoyable as 3S and it's been like that since.
Pretty good vid overall! I think some of the ways ya described modern tittles as more homogeneous was a bit too dismissive of how they are different at times. Strive in particular is a odd example, given how much it's critized by being the most different from older main tittles. (Myself included to a extend, I dislike stuff like the new air dashes and how a lot of character kits were adapted/changed)
But still a interesting view of capcom's design phylosophy during that arcade time, and how it pushed them to make their games as distinct from the other as they can be.
Another small criticism is the way ya described Urien. Like ya said it will be wack if a character with the unblockables he has would be top tier, and is good he kinda sucks... When he is usually considered high tier and pretty good in my experience, hell the lists ya shared in the vid marks him as such lol. Personally I would be fine with him being top tier, because of similar reasons of how ya described the 3 main top tiers, would be a interesting challange to learn to fight, and the meta of the game would adapt around him over time. But I get Yun, Chun and Ken fit the fundamentals of the game better
Also ya mention there being no special moves that can prevent the parry. Generally true, but there are sorta some exeptions. The first hit of akuma's kkz super cannot be parried at all. Tbf ya can parry the rest after blocking the first hit, so relatively minor, but yeah
I very much like the way ya described third strike neutral as freeform jazz, as opposed to the super intellectual thing many describe it as. I think third strike is way more easy to pick up, than many say as a result. Is really straightforward, and ultimately, even the shittiest lower tier can shine, because of stuff like the parry system, and its limitations ya described, allowing skill to be the main thing to shine above all
So great stuff, always love sreing third strike content :]
3rd Strike has fantastic mechanics and is such a great fighting game, fundamentally. 17:08 You are so, so right about this, and that’s what makes the parry system so great. The problem with 3rd Strike is its balance; the top tiers are just busted and are so much better than the rest of the cast. Top 8s are usually just Chuns, Yuns, and a random character or two. It's a shame they never rebalanced it (i.e., SFIII: 4th ..... collision.... i dunno).
I liked Third Strike but it was definitely a betrayal to the SF series and those who hold it with high esteem seem to have a total distain for the very things that makes 2D fighter distinct from psuedo 3D fighters like Tekken, with its hyper focus on mixups above it's zoning, spacing, footsies, turtling, etc. Just try to imagine how the parry system could nullify classic characters who are diverse in their playstyles like Vega, Bison, Dhalsim, etc. The low tier characters in 3S reflect this fact.
What’s the best console version of the game today? I own a switch, ps4, ps5, Xbox x.
Sadly arguably none of these. I have 30th anniversary on steam and you can find games occasionally but depending where you are in the world it could be lag ridden. Fightcade is really the only place to get reliable matches and especially for 3rd Strike as its easily the most popular game on Fightcade. I'd be interested to know if there is much of a community on Ps4/5. Unfortunately without crossplay in the 30th anniversary collection the community is split. The 30th anniversary collection is a great anthology though for practice so for the right price it is worth owning a copy.
Keep in mind 3rd Strike is the 3rd iteration of Street Fighter 3. First was New Generation, second was Double Impact. All 3 had the parry system which was completely different in each game.
@@hitybuvi7075 how was it different in each game?
This was a game that was initially fround upon but now is a classic with some of the best Playability ever.. Daigo agrees🔥
"if you came to arcades and said 'ye this is basically SF2 but with some small updates' no owner would want to buy that"
Maaaaaan, you haven't paid much attention to street fighter 2 or 3 have you.
3 has 2 updated versions in 2nd impact and 3rd strike, and 2 has over half a dozen versions.
for me, this peak skill based fighting game.
This is tangential to the video as a whole, but this is one of the first times I've noticed Analgesic Productions in your patron list. What a small world! They're one of my favorite indie teams.
Wasnt around to play it ( born in 98) bought the 30 year anniversary collection and was glad to see that they added training for 3rd strike lol
Feetwork101's 3rd strike film room series is a must watch if you enjoy 3s. He goes over the top players for each character and breaks down aspects of their gameplay like baiting out attacks, preemptively jumping lows etc.
One of modern video games design's biggest problems is the crowbarring of mechanics from other games without any real understanding of how that mechanic was supported by other systems to make that original game excellent as a whole.
Again, we see this right across genres, where developers consistently think they're smarter than the giants they're standing on, and lift one part of a classic game thinking it'll magically transform their tripe into ambrosia.
If I see one more 4X game with "crafting" in it, I'm gonna tear my own ballsack off.
As someone who's been playing 3rd Strike for over 15 years - thank you. Here's a comment for the algorithm.
Oh hell yeah, let’s go! I still play here and there on fightcade despite not being good, but when I want 3rd strike, no other game with do. Best visuals of any fighting game imo