Tragic but no real surprise. Half the time I wonder if the folk who put things together for the photo ops and the like even work for GW. Remember a trailer. Titanicus maybe. They had assembled part of a bridges underside upside down. Nevermind the stories of incomplete or wrongly geared models. The wrong decals from the wrong game are honestly probably a step in the right direction towards improvement at this point lol.
When they get to Secundus a Dantioch model would be great, but really they need to make models of the great characters from the first few boks (Kyr Vahlen, Mortug, the Salamanders Characters etc). Make great lore and then a model, it's literally so simple.
Speaking of allied forces. The Raven guard should have the character Alastor Rushal, known as The Raven and he should have like head swaps were you can use him for both night lords and Raven guard
When i play my night lords i use a champion with raven guard armour to represent him so id like to see them make official rules for him, doubtful they will though
Child me would've fought to love this...instead I'm thoroughly annoyed that they clearly know Perturabo's relationship with his men, yet they still did it. The fluff basically reads "we know it'd never happen but trust us, these guys were his bodyguards once upon a time". What a load of huff. I much prefer your suggestions of characters that need love. Your points on Forrix & Dantioch show you love the hobby and I agree wholeheartedly they'd be very interesting to add to the game, particularly Dantioch and his aging.
Bodyguard wise in game, iron circle are too expensive for what they do. Perturabo should have a cheaper alternative and that’s this in the form of 10 feel no pain 6+ ablative wounds who can rapid strike with him.
The stand out for me here has to be the contemptor-gorgon, the idea of marrying Mechanicum and Astartes tech is very IH. Plus the grav Deredeo sounds boss af. I like the word bearer unit as an idea but something more like a conclave of trainee chaplains instead of a command squad would be cool. DC and other character upgrade options for the head chaplain, and 2-4 trainees. No banner but a banner bubble anyways (cos chaplains chanting). Really like the marks options too, maybe have the chants being recited cause different effects inside the banner bubble? So a 6” bubble of +1 T/I/A/++/Fearless, decided at the beginning of the controlling play turn. I play neither of these factions but i really believe they both need some more fluffy stuffs. …Oh and a Faffnir Rann model!
Macca, seriously, at this stage you might as well just write your own rules, I think you have the head for it, and a passionate fan base. With your community feedback I think you could come out with a sick rule set.
If anything he already has contacts with the mournival rules people, he should just make an official list of real obvious stuff. In my opinion units that have been left untouched from the first 3 black books are lacking and macca could present the fixes to them so they can play test & offer insight back to him. - macca you might as well be part of them by this point.
"The twist is more important than the continuation of the story." Thats always been my biggest problem, how some stories are half baked and others are over told and ruined. I still have ptsd from The Reflection crack'd
I feel like a lot of these (excellent) suggestions could easily already exist, but don't. Perhaps this is down to the community requiring 'permission from GW? For example, I have a WS army, and my librarian is a 1k Sons mini. That's to represent the one that hangs around with the WSs in the novels (can't remember his name). He's still a WS, uses all their rules etc, but it helps forge the narrative. The Watch Pack could easily be included. You've got say an UM army, for 1 squad of veterans, just use SW minis and give them the veteran special rules you think would most typify them (and ccw). I do fear if someone went to an event with this though, people would whinge 'it's confusing', especially if they were getting rolled. Unfortunately for me, this one's up to the community. Edit: changed, I use him in my WS no DAs
For the VIIth Legion: - Maximus Thane as a range character, based on his discipline he can buff line legionaries and have some special rules for himself while shooting with Bolter. - Fafnir Rann, this is my favorite character from the Legion, give him a rule where he can swap between his Pair of Axes (advantage in mele for himself) or his Bolter and Shield (buff only the Phalanx Wardens while shooting).
I'm over it. All of it. I may resurrect my battletech. Or may go to One Page Rules. Or I may just give up on trying to make tabletop gaming bearable. GW at this point is like a bad relationship. I can't even remember if it ever felt good or what that felt like if it did.
Totally agree with you. Ive begun to try and cobble together some rules i can use for 30k /HH and ive been avoiding 40k /primaris/etc. But its so much like a terrible relationship or drug addiction. I feel like the further I move away from GW/40k rule systems (and the endless codex parades) the better off my hobby will be. Kinda sad.
Up to reading Fulgrim now. Novel spoiled but if its a good story it won't matter. The Count of Monte Cristo doesn't get shit because you know what happens throughout. It does promt a question though, on the table top, are legions whose primarchs die early typically less popular?
I think that the Iron Hands and Raven Guard have 'boring' schemes, aka difficult to do justice to and so usually just painted boring blacks. Salamanders are pretty under-represented as I think the green scheme is less appealing to most, and the fire effect is daunting for many painters.
The dominators from a bodyguard perspective are an ok upgrade from a standard command squad, coming in at 275 points for 5 terminators with FnP-6+ all Leadership-9 and characters (issue &accept challenges). A max squad size of dominators is 475 points for 10 models up from 8 with standard command squads, If we give the standard squad thunder hammers that comes in at 390. So with dominators your in theory adding 2 regular terminator chosen at 45 points each (30+15 for thunder hammer) to bring 390 to 480. As you can see the dominators are cheaper per model than regular chosen given they have FnP 6+ Ld-9 & cheaper thunder hammers. The way I see it is that we should be comparing this to the Iron Circle Domitar bodyguard. With their bonus needing 4 models your coming in at 820 points not including Perturabo, in addition you can only footslog this setup and people will just ignore you. On the other hand many of his bonuses are focused around terminators, allowing deep strike. Comparing 475 for 10 FnP6+ ablative wounds in your deployment zone possibly on turn 1 is a lot more effective than 820pt foot slogging fortress who won’t get into combat unless your mission rules force it on your opponent. Another thing is that he gives furious charge in enemy’s deployment zone so that’s strength 10 chainfists or Thunderhammers charging with perturabo’s fleet rule. All told I’d rather see Forgeworld make these minor adjustments rather than a retardedly good or bad unit. Perturabo is a strong Primarch already and any further buff would be silly. Personally I’d like them to have reaper autocannons stock (likewise for siege tyrants) but this may be over the top and not the dominators specific fluff. -sorry for the wall of text, I do have & play iron warriors deepstriking cataphractii lists so I had to put my thoughts on this one.
Yes! The Stor-Bezashk. Since they already have siege tyrants this should come in the form of an HQ (master of the Stor-Bezashk) who is a tank commander like casturman orth, only instead of tank hunters he & the vehicle get sunder, wrecker. he can take Iron Havoc squad or Siege tyrants as a bodyguard selection, does not need to be attached to it.
@@chris8878 I’d literally settle for anything right now. Character or even a veteran squad. Dark angels can take super fluffy lists like dreadwing companies but the. IVth can’t. Would love the opportunity to take a stor-bezashk detachment. Shed loads of artillery and veterans.
@ReaverKill we can only hope that new Right of Wars for the older legions are coming. My absolute favorite thing about 30k was how much the force organization chart was able to be manipulated by RoW’s. Also you have to remember that GW always greenlights excess garbage for Ultramarines, DarkAngels, Blood Angels. The interesting (& hopeful) thing is how much they gave to night lords and white scars. It’s promising that FW can whip out some decent stuff still. It’s not all bad, stay positive.
For a dearth guard I would have there destroyers (not sure on rules because I don’t know the dearth guard to well) and for the space wolves I would have the long fang and they would be BS5 and have it soon that the sergeant can for go his shooting so that you can spit fire 2 modals and 2 modals in the pack can take a different weapon but they must be the same and you have to change two so in a Pack of 5, 3 let’s as have heavy bolters and 2 can have heavy bolters or both can have plasma cannons
I don’t mind this unit it’s not really that great honestly but this would be a terrific time to introduce new character models if they keep doing this anyway just my two cents.
IRON WARRIORS LEVIATHAN DREADNOUGHT WITH A NEUTRON LASER PROJECTOR WEAPON OPTION. Please. Maybe even a Leviathan special Character for the Iron Warriors...please.
For the Night Lords, I’d add Fel Zharost, as a loyalist character that can be used by other legions (former chief librarian, banished by Sevatar after nikea). I’d also add a legion specific destroyer squad. Must have jump packs, armed with volkite chargers, have the smoke bombs from recon squads, can choose to fire one charger shot in melee instead of normal attacks.
Love idea of gorgon pattern dreadnought: but honestly. Give us Ulrach Branthan, rules for as an astartes and as a Dreadnought! Iron Hands HQ character but if taken in a shattered legion force he gains Hatred: Traitor but must be in his Dreadnought Form
I like the idea for squads and characters that can be taken by any army as tag along units, I think a really cool one would be something like chaos missionaries from the Word Bearers that could be taken as a part of any traitor force in the elites choice. Standard Marine stats, bolt guns and close combat weapons, but here is what I think would make it really cool; give the squad leader Burning Lore for the whole spreading the faith of chaos theme, and the unit gets the following special rule: Dark Preacher: all friendly units within 18inches of the squad roll 3D6 for morale tests, and take the lowest two dice rolled. I think it could be cool. what about you?
I just wish for a Book 9 FAQ that fixes the DA to be fair. Namely Scion, some RoW and the Lion Sword. That said, it's great to see HH starting to get more attention lately and it's a pleasure to hear your ideas regarding new legion specific units !
In Angel Exterminatus, two machines of the Iron Circle had been downed when Perturabo boarded that Shattered Legion ship and then had to leave in a hurry. I like to think that the Iron Hands, making the majority of that particular Shattered Legion cell, fixed them up and use them, since it's two pieces of rather rare and excuisite legion hardware. There should have been enough working parts still in both to make one complete battle automaton. So many little things like that that could've happened and made the book series that much cool, but the authors just had to nit talk to each other and all do their own thing. Dunno, maybe it's just me, but the idea of captured arms and vehicles always seemed so cool.
They're basically less flexible, more expensive Lernaeans right? WS5 1W Cataphractii, that unlike Lernaeans don't mesh too well with their Legion rules, don't get the same kind of sweet bonuses from their characters/Primarch, are limited to 0-1, can't take a dedicated Spartan, can't be Troops in PotL, and have fewer attacks on the Sergeant. The rule and the hammer is nice against Mechanicum I guess and for sure against Custodes, but it's still a single unit. Combi-weapons are neat, but makes the unit Tyrants-tier pricey. Had a argument about it on 4chan, but that's the only site that seems defensive about them. Reddit and my local 30K Discord both broadly agree that while they're nice to have, they aren't better than Siege Tyrants, they don't compare to Iron Circle, and personally I don't see how they compare to Atramentar either.
I don't know if they're already a thing and just don't have any models but having fabulous bill and his flesh creations would be pretty cool. I could see them having similar rules to some of the monstrous ruinstorm demons , being like absolute beasts in combat but degrading slowly due to their bodies rejecting the modifications. Also having bill in a squad with them could give them buffs in the old combat drug style, choosing a different effect for a turn.
These are the kinds of suggestions that I'd love to hear the Mournival people take on. It might not even be a bad idea to have somewhat generic rules that allow "homebrewing" of units. Say add the base unit's cost plus the cost of the upgraded weapon? Maybe let it keep "normal" points cost if it either A. Doesn't particularly change the power level of the unit, or B. Has detriments that are flavorful to the legion, such as Macca mentioned with the iron hands dread.
The raven guard should get the Shadow wardens and or deliverers. Who could then be led by the eventual tartaros and mk6 praetor models that the 19th will get. Characters, both names escape me but the Shadow warden captain and the character following the iron hands/salamanders remnants from the drop site massacre. Both have time in the hh novels. I like the raptor idea but if you’re going to add the mutated version then add the marines who were not mutated and are, pound for pound, better. 0-1 for maybe +1 W and A..or initiative. Or unlocked as troops with Branne Nev, who was put in charge of the Raptors.
Aside from the obvious units, like the Raptors, Warsmith Dantioch and the Blood Angels characters, what I like most are the simple units you came up with, the Word Bearers terminators, the Salamanders flametank, and the Death Guard Whirlwind. In no way would any of these be OP, and they are thematic, and simple to make.
i agree with you about the iron warriors using shield technology. During the Hrud invasion they created a stasis shield that disrupted the hrud time altering powers, Making them easy pickings to the iron warriors. so adding shields to rhinos might have come from this incident.
I LOVE your ideas for the Iron Hands dreadnoughts…. Especially the iron contemptor. The only thing I would change is the grav-hand to a grav-hammer like the thanatar has. Shows a connection to the mechanicum. Obviously it needs to be contemptor sized so it’s exact stats have to change. Also, make the grav-hammer arm non changeable. You must take it like the tsons special dreadnought. It’s personal taste, but yea. Everything else you said 👍🏻
Like most the suggestions, prefer the WS khagan Keshig to be a WS Tarted up catifractii with a increased movement as speed baby if it wasn’t tartarus with a trade of a slightly reduction in the save to show it’s been shaved a little armour weight to gain speed
Loved the Death Guard / Whirlwind and the Flamestorm Vindicator cannon idea. I've played with the idea for a more powerful Melta Cannon with the Lance rule added on to it. Similarly firing as the Melta lance from the Leviathan dreads melta gun
I think his rules put too much soul back into the game and we cannot have that. ;_; Honestly going through this video, it has made me realize that this is what is misisng in the modern sytem and modeling practices. It feels like overall GW is more focused on the profits than the actual soul and fluff of the game that made it fun in the first place.
I would chose to change the Atramentar to, 0-1 5-10 models in Catapractii terminator armor. I'd keep cloaked in murder since it is more useful for Catapractii, but I would make it so when they deep strike in they would gain shrouded so they don't get nuked when they arrive. Then WS 5 ( maybe) with standard terminator equipment. Then make them all characters like Deathshroud make them able to replace a command squad
I think the constraint you are missing is that the dominators can be created from existing terminators plus a weapon upgrade pack. The unfortunate reality is that if they add anything too spicy without a model to sell and therefor an article like this is kneecap in terms of what can be added in it.
I can tell you I met some of the Forgeworld staff at Warhammer world HQ in Nottingham UK. . . so I am not suprised to why Horus Herasy is going to the pan. I will spare the details however couple of them are a bit clueless and don't really have much intrest in the lore and rules there just pushing to sell off models there design team have created. However, it must be noted that the reason Horus Heresy is not getting much love or attetion is because Forgeworld are the ones who are in charge the new up comming Warhammer re-boot of Warhammer Fantasy battles.
WB should have Anointed Terminators, EC should 100% have Sunkillers. Regarding Morlocks, Devourers, Triarii and Deliverers they're in the same boat as Sanguinary Guard, Atramentar, Justaerin and some other famous units. People like them, know them, and want them, so they should get them. Think IW should have a melee unit to help them storm breaches, since their Index Astartes compared them to BA and WE among others. Maybe rending melee Breachers with a bunch of attacks and some special rules? Furious Charge, Hatred, Rage?
Watching that page just made em realize something, even HH still have the good old "Point on the datasheet" thing that 40k decided for some bafingly stupid reason to remove, deciding to have them be at the end of the book, because why would ANYONE want to see points when looking at a datasheet amirit?
I think all legions should have a terminator elite, but be different from a bodyguard unit. I think terminators are a special enough a unit from other things that they should be included with legion specific rules, this is not to say that they should be competitive against other terminator elites, but something that gives them an advantage over the average terminator squad. As for characters I'd want a Santor for the Iron Hands as well, Meduson is a cool Iron Hands character but if I were to throw in my hat for a different named one, it would be Amadeus DuCaine because he is just so old and he's still got his Mk.I armor. Unfortunately whenever black library tries to portray an Iron Hands character it is almost always in a light that never does them justice. Like Ezekyle Abaddon is an asshole, but they include something likeable or sympathetic about him so you aren't just cheering when he gets his face punched in. The Iron Hands though? None of that. Meduson is as close as it gets and they make him die like a bitch and the runner up Autek Mor, although responsible for essentially destroying the World Eaters home world by throwing a moon at it, is largely unknown and is still just portrayed as a massive dickhole for no other reason. In short, BL/GW/FW sucks donkey dick at writing Iron Hands
With the talk of HH 2.0 coming out in the near future, are we even sure these rules will be relevant in a year? Look at Pariah Nexus coming out about, I might be a little off, 1.5 years before the total revamp of KT.
I did not think that Lucius has game rule let alone a miniature and how would the The Cohors Nasicae, Lucius' personal bodyguard work in the game? I would want Marius Vairosean in the game because a Rite of War written around him would make the Kakophoni work. Love the idea of Kakophoni Contemptor Dreadnaughts i would also love to see Captain Solomon Demeter of the 2 Company of the Emperor's Children in the game
This is somewhat painful... There is barely any lore about them. Instead they could have expanded the Brethren of the Iron Warriors. And some special weapons, Iron Warriors make tech so why no special tech for their elites units? Like a massive Broadsword. And all this "we were replaced by bots, me resent and bitter..." is shit. Ok, they ate in disgrace, so why not give them a rule like "one last chance for Glory!" Or a death march special rule were they are so mad and sad for having lost their righteous place beside their beloved Primarch they go full suicide. Make them more, instead of less. Iron within...
They probably focusing on releasing a new edition of HH, and this sheets are just a breadcrumbs and snippets to make it easier to wait and slowly heat up the hype.
Watch packs are a nice idea with an 5 man unit and choosable only if the LOW is a Primarch. Love the Idea of the Iron pattern Deredeo, and a Gorgon pattern Contemptor, to. I've missed the SOH. Honestly i didn't follow closley their rules, but as a Book 1 Legion they cannot get enough heed. The Garviel Loken vibe is still to strong in this legion, but it must go. Garviel Loken as a SOH character was intresting for a campaign but after that he can be an independent support, like Dantioch or nothing at all. In case of SOH, Maloghurst is fine addeddum, but need to represent the 16'th more, representetive characters like Argonis. Later years this this legion became an amalgam of all the other traitor forces. There are crazy sorcerers, (maloghurst) cult leaders, (thargost) daemon hosts, (Tormageddon) fiercest most terrifiyng warriors. (Aximand, Ekkadon) And Horus needs a secondary profile for his after molech ascended version, probably he cannot use bodyguards anymore but he became a one man army, a god of war.
Little known fact, I'm not a pro-twins advocate. That crap started with the novels and it plays into my most hated aspect of the Alpha Legion, convoluted circles within circles BS that doesn't, for me, enhance the story.
While I don't feel like the new IW terminators are ass garbage or anything I do understand your point, iron warriors didn't need another terminator unit they needed something else. I'd definitely love the Castellan Rhino and some more characters like dantioch (especially because I'm building a Pharos force) I was kinda hoping for some other type of power Armored infantry unit. At the very least this might mean we get an iron warriors character next
They really need to change HH rules to 9th edition 40K, just so that you can use HH armies in 9th edition. If they did that, then it would be amazing and give people a reason to buy HH stuff other than due to nostalgia or FW elitism. The fact I can use my Custodes in both 40K and HH makes me glad I went with that army. They need to do the same with Astartes/Chaos.
Some engineers would be great for Solar. We kindaaa have it through the Tech Adepts, but those can't take squad wide carapace armour or transports. Would function like legion support squads
i like all of your ideas, raptors should act more like primaris instead of gal vorbak i think gal vorbak are just too unique to have an equivalent in another legion
Who is this for? The three people who still play HH/7th edition? Its hard enough to find people that play regular modern 40k, leaving the HH games in 7th edition pretty much turned it into a very expensive specialty game.
I personally pay with dozens of people across Australia and NZ and big events regularly hit the 30+ attendees. Remember that many of the people playing 30k do so because they don't like 8/9th edition and don't want to play it.
I think the main issue with iron warriors isn't their rules it's the fact they're boring. Boring theme, boring colour scheme, boring inconsistent lore and a lack of unique models
A tualy lore wise the dominators are bitter at automata the failuire was unevitable not really their fault but porturabo has standards of perfection in war that almost supass even fulgrims vanity if his ken arnt doing perfect their a chance he just use decimation on them again
I would chose to change the Atramentar to, 0-1 5-10 models in Catapractii terminator armor. I'd keep cloaked in murder since it is more useful for Catapractii, but I would make it so when they deep strike in they would gain shrouded so they don't get nuked when they arrive. Then WS 5 ( maybe) with standard terminator equipment. Then make them all characters like Deathshroud make them able to replace a command squad.
The removal of the Chaos Dreadnought in 40k is probably one of the saddest thing GW has ever done right after Primaris.
These takes are constructed of nothing but white-hot fire pokers they're such shit.
Yeah, the Chaos Dread was cooler than the Hellbrute if you ask me... Thankfully there are tributes available here and there.
And they’ve put the 40k Iron Warriors decal on their terminators, they’ve just given up now
yah, they're basically trying to sell 30K to the 40K people now....
I'm building a 30k force right now everyone in my clun is 40k player why shouldn't we get more of them to play it'd impossible to find a great of 30k
It’s not that bad, those are just old school. Now if they had the chaos spikes around it then that’d be wrong.
Tragic but no real surprise. Half the time I wonder if the folk who put things together for the photo ops and the like even work for GW. Remember a trailer. Titanicus maybe. They had assembled part of a bridges underside upside down. Nevermind the stories of incomplete or wrongly geared models.
The wrong decals from the wrong game are honestly probably a step in the right direction towards improvement at this point lol.
@@knowbody223 Good luck with that shit when CSM in 40k barely function and wont see a book until like 2023
When they get to Secundus a Dantioch model would be great, but really they need to make models of the great characters from the first few boks (Kyr Vahlen, Mortug, the Salamanders Characters etc). Make great lore and then a model, it's literally so simple.
Be careful what you wish for, they may make all of that in 32 scale like their recent sculpts.
A Dantioch model will guarantee I start a Horus Heresy army
Speaking of allied forces. The Raven guard should have the character
Alastor Rushal, known as The Raven and he should have like head swaps were you can use him for both night lords and Raven guard
When i play my night lords i use a champion with raven guard armour to represent him so id like to see them make official rules for him, doubtful they will though
@@joseffjones4575 I would as well I would happy kitbash him and some other name characters as well
Child me would've fought to love this...instead I'm thoroughly annoyed that they clearly know Perturabo's relationship with his men, yet they still did it.
The fluff basically reads "we know it'd never happen but trust us, these guys were his bodyguards once upon a time".
What a load of huff. I much prefer your suggestions of characters that need love. Your points on Forrix & Dantioch show you love the hobby and I agree wholeheartedly they'd be very interesting to add to the game, particularly Dantioch and his aging.
he had normal bodyguards, the iron circle automata did not pop out right at the start of the heresy you know right?
Bodyguard wise in game, iron circle are too expensive for what they do. Perturabo should have a cheaper alternative and that’s this in the form of 10 feel no pain 6+ ablative wounds who can rapid strike with him.
Angron's elite guard has some lore to it, but it mostly consists of them not really being able to keep up with him in battle.
The stand out for me here has to be the contemptor-gorgon, the idea of marrying Mechanicum and Astartes tech is very IH. Plus the grav Deredeo sounds boss af.
I like the word bearer unit as an idea but something more like a conclave of trainee chaplains instead of a command squad would be cool. DC and other character upgrade options for the head chaplain, and 2-4 trainees. No banner but a banner bubble anyways (cos chaplains chanting). Really like the marks options too, maybe have the chants being recited cause different effects inside the banner bubble? So a 6” bubble of +1 T/I/A/++/Fearless, decided at the beginning of the controlling play turn.
I play neither of these factions but i really believe they both need some more fluffy stuffs.
…Oh and a Faffnir Rann model!
Macca, seriously, at this stage you might as well just write your own rules, I think you have the head for it, and a passionate fan base. With your community feedback I think you could come out with a sick rule set.
I am writing my own game.
If anything he already has contacts with the mournival rules people, he should just make an official list of real obvious stuff. In my opinion units that have been left untouched from the first 3 black books are lacking and macca could present the fixes to them so they can play test & offer insight back to him. - macca you might as well be part of them by this point.
@@TheOuterCircle well then, sweet as!
There is a fan based 8th edition 40k version of the Heresy out there already. But I’d still be interested in seeing alternatives!
@@davidwasilewski yup. Its not terribly bad. With some homebrew options/additional stuff and its deffo better than mainstream GW trash
"The twist is more important than the continuation of the story." Thats always been my biggest problem, how some stories are half baked and others are over told and ruined. I still have ptsd from The Reflection crack'd
I feel like a lot of these (excellent) suggestions could easily already exist, but don't. Perhaps this is down to the community requiring 'permission from GW?
For example, I have a WS army, and my librarian is a 1k Sons mini. That's to represent the one that hangs around with the WSs in the novels (can't remember his name). He's still a WS, uses all their rules etc, but it helps forge the narrative. The Watch Pack could easily be included. You've got say an UM army, for 1 squad of veterans, just use SW minis and give them the veteran special rules you think would most typify them (and ccw).
I do fear if someone went to an event with this though, people would whinge 'it's confusing', especially if they were getting rolled.
Unfortunately for me, this one's up to the community.
Edit: changed, I use him in my WS no DAs
I used to paint Thousand Sons psykers and gift them to mates for that reason.
Half of these suggestions would be ripped apart by TOC if they were made by GW/FW
Just any Word Bearer terminators please? How do they not have them already?
For the VIIth Legion:
- Maximus Thane as a range character, based on his discipline he can buff line legionaries and have some special rules for himself while shooting with Bolter.
- Fafnir Rann, this is my favorite character from the Legion, give him a rule where he can swap between his Pair of Axes (advantage in mele for himself) or his Bolter and Shield (buff only the Phalanx Wardens while shooting).
I'm over it. All of it. I may resurrect my battletech. Or may go to One Page Rules. Or I may just give up on trying to make tabletop gaming bearable. GW at this point is like a bad relationship. I can't even remember if it ever felt good or what that felt like if it did.
Totally agree with you. Ive begun to try and cobble together some rules i can use for 30k /HH and ive been avoiding 40k /primaris/etc. But its so much like a terrible relationship or drug addiction. I feel like the further I move away from GW/40k rule systems (and the endless codex parades) the better off my hobby will be. Kinda sad.
Up to reading Fulgrim now. Novel spoiled but if its a good story it won't matter. The Count of Monte Cristo doesn't get shit because you know what happens throughout. It does promt a question though, on the table top, are legions whose primarchs die early typically less popular?
I think that the Iron Hands and Raven Guard have 'boring' schemes, aka difficult to do justice to and so usually just painted boring blacks. Salamanders are pretty under-represented as I think the green scheme is less appealing to most, and the fire effect is daunting for many painters.
@@TheOuterCircle pretty much. I've seen more world eaters than I've seen raven guard, salamanders and iron hands combined.
The dominators from a bodyguard perspective are an ok upgrade from a standard command squad, coming in at 275 points for 5 terminators with FnP-6+ all Leadership-9 and characters (issue &accept challenges). A max squad size of dominators is 475 points for 10 models up from 8 with standard command squads, If we give the standard squad thunder hammers that comes in at 390. So with dominators your in theory adding 2 regular terminator chosen at 45 points each (30+15 for thunder hammer) to bring 390 to 480. As you can see the dominators are cheaper per model than regular chosen given they have FnP 6+ Ld-9 & cheaper thunder hammers.
The way I see it is that we should be comparing this to the Iron Circle Domitar bodyguard. With their bonus needing 4 models your coming in at 820 points not including Perturabo, in addition you can only footslog this setup and people will just ignore you. On the other hand many of his bonuses are focused around terminators, allowing deep strike. Comparing 475 for 10 FnP6+ ablative wounds in your deployment zone possibly on turn 1 is a lot more effective than 820pt foot slogging fortress who won’t get into combat unless your mission rules force it on your opponent.
Another thing is that he gives furious charge in enemy’s deployment zone so that’s strength 10 chainfists or Thunderhammers charging with perturabo’s fleet rule.
All told I’d rather see Forgeworld make these minor adjustments rather than a retardedly good or bad unit. Perturabo is a strong Primarch already and any further buff would be silly. Personally I’d like them to have reaper autocannons stock (likewise for siege tyrants) but this may be over the top and not the dominators specific fluff.
-sorry for the wall of text, I do have & play iron warriors deepstriking cataphractii lists so I had to put my thoughts on this one.
Correction - I meant “ablative wounds in the > enemy’s < deployment zone” (not yours)
Where’s my iron warriors 40K supplement though?
Iron warrior castellan rhino is in my top 3. Would love to see the thunderstrike assault gun or a squad of Stor-Bezashk.
Yes! The Stor-Bezashk. Since they already have siege tyrants this should come in the form of an HQ (master of the Stor-Bezashk) who is a tank commander like casturman orth, only instead of tank hunters he & the vehicle get sunder, wrecker. he can take Iron Havoc squad or Siege tyrants as a bodyguard selection, does not need to be attached to it.
@@chris8878 I’d literally settle for anything right now. Character or even a veteran squad. Dark angels can take super fluffy lists like dreadwing companies but the. IVth can’t. Would love the opportunity to take a stor-bezashk detachment. Shed loads of artillery and veterans.
@ReaverKill we can only hope that new Right of Wars for the older legions are coming. My absolute favorite thing about 30k was how much the force organization chart was able to be manipulated by RoW’s. Also you have to remember that GW always greenlights excess garbage for Ultramarines, DarkAngels, Blood Angels. The interesting (& hopeful) thing is how much they gave to night lords and white scars. It’s promising that FW can whip out some decent stuff still. It’s not all bad, stay positive.
For a dearth guard I would have there destroyers (not sure on rules because I don’t know the dearth guard to well) and for the space wolves I would have the long fang and they would be BS5 and have it soon that the sergeant can for go his shooting so that you can spit fire 2 modals and 2 modals in the pack can take a different weapon but they must be the same and you have to change two so in a Pack of 5, 3 let’s as have heavy bolters and 2 can have heavy bolters or both can have plasma cannons
I don’t mind this unit it’s not really that great honestly but this would be a terrific time to introduce new character models if they keep doing this anyway just my two cents.
Just found your channel. Been binge watching your video. Kept me entertained through maintenance Monday on the tanks. Thanks man.
IRON WARRIORS LEVIATHAN DREADNOUGHT WITH A NEUTRON LASER PROJECTOR WEAPON OPTION. Please. Maybe even a Leviathan special Character for the Iron Warriors...please.
For the Night Lords, I’d add Fel Zharost, as a loyalist character that can be used by other legions (former chief librarian, banished by Sevatar after nikea). I’d also add a legion specific destroyer squad. Must have jump packs, armed with volkite chargers, have the smoke bombs from recon squads, can choose to fire one charger shot in melee instead of normal attacks.
Love idea of gorgon pattern dreadnought: but honestly. Give us Ulrach Branthan, rules for as an astartes and as a Dreadnought! Iron Hands HQ character but if taken in a shattered legion force he gains Hatred: Traitor but must be in his Dreadnought Form
I like the idea for squads and characters that can be taken by any army as tag along units, I think a really cool one would be something like chaos missionaries from the Word Bearers that could be taken as a part of any traitor force in the elites choice.
Standard Marine stats, bolt guns and close combat weapons, but here is what I think would make it really cool; give the squad leader Burning Lore for the whole spreading the faith of chaos theme, and the unit gets the following special rule:
Dark Preacher: all friendly units within 18inches of the squad roll 3D6 for morale tests, and take the lowest two dice rolled.
I think it could be cool. what about you?
I just wish for a Book 9 FAQ that fixes the DA to be fair. Namely Scion, some RoW and the Lion Sword.
That said, it's great to see HH starting to get more attention lately and it's a pleasure to hear your ideas regarding new legion specific units !
No wonder the Khan was last, he was probably looking for his bike and needed to walk to the heresy.
In Angel Exterminatus, two machines of the Iron Circle had been downed when Perturabo boarded that Shattered Legion ship and then had to leave in a hurry. I like to think that the Iron Hands, making the majority of that particular Shattered Legion cell, fixed them up and use them, since it's two pieces of rather rare and excuisite legion hardware. There should have been enough working parts still in both to make one complete battle automaton. So many little things like that that could've happened and made the book series that much cool, but the authors just had to nit talk to each other and all do their own thing.
Dunno, maybe it's just me, but the idea of captured arms and vehicles always seemed so cool.
Love the work Macca, I really appreciate the content.
They're basically less flexible, more expensive Lernaeans right? WS5 1W Cataphractii, that unlike Lernaeans don't mesh too well with their Legion rules, don't get the same kind of sweet bonuses from their characters/Primarch, are limited to 0-1, can't take a dedicated Spartan, can't be Troops in PotL, and have fewer attacks on the Sergeant. The rule and the hammer is nice against Mechanicum I guess and for sure against Custodes, but it's still a single unit. Combi-weapons are neat, but makes the unit Tyrants-tier pricey.
Had a argument about it on 4chan, but that's the only site that seems defensive about them. Reddit and my local 30K Discord both broadly agree that while they're nice to have, they aren't better than Siege Tyrants, they don't compare to Iron Circle, and personally I don't see how they compare to Atramentar either.
I don't know if they're already a thing and just don't have any models but having fabulous bill and his flesh creations would be pretty cool. I could see them having similar rules to some of the monstrous ruinstorm demons , being like absolute beasts in combat but degrading slowly due to their bodies rejecting the modifications. Also having bill in a squad with them could give them buffs in the old combat drug style, choosing a different effect for a turn.
These are the kinds of suggestions that I'd love to hear the Mournival people take on. It might not even be a bad idea to have somewhat generic rules that allow "homebrewing" of units. Say add the base unit's cost plus the cost of the upgraded weapon? Maybe let it keep "normal" points cost if it either A. Doesn't particularly change the power level of the unit, or B. Has detriments that are flavorful to the legion, such as Macca mentioned with the iron hands dread.
Solomon Kane was initially a Robert E. Howard character.
The raven guard should get the Shadow wardens and or deliverers. Who could then be led by the eventual tartaros and mk6 praetor models that the 19th will get.
Characters, both names escape me but the Shadow warden captain and the character following the iron hands/salamanders remnants from the drop site massacre. Both have time in the hh novels.
I like the raptor idea but if you’re going to add the mutated version then add the marines who were not mutated and are, pound for pound, better. 0-1 for maybe +1 W and A..or initiative. Or unlocked as troops with Branne Nev, who was put in charge of the Raptors.
Aside from the obvious units, like the Raptors, Warsmith Dantioch and the Blood Angels characters, what I like most are the simple units you came up with, the Word Bearers terminators, the Salamanders flametank, and the Death Guard Whirlwind. In no way would any of these be OP, and they are thematic, and simple to make.
i agree with you about the iron warriors using shield technology. During the Hrud invasion they created a stasis shield that disrupted the hrud time altering powers, Making them easy pickings to the iron warriors. so adding shields to rhinos might have come from this incident.
Got to have that balance, cons to go with the pros. I dig your ideas for these units and armies. Very fluffy too.
I LOVE your ideas for the Iron Hands dreadnoughts…. Especially the iron contemptor. The only thing I would change is the grav-hand to a grav-hammer like the thanatar has. Shows a connection to the mechanicum. Obviously it needs to be contemptor sized so it’s exact stats have to change. Also, make the grav-hammer arm non changeable. You must take it like the tsons special dreadnought. It’s personal taste, but yea. Everything else you said 👍🏻
Like most the suggestions, prefer the WS khagan Keshig to be a WS Tarted up catifractii with a increased movement as speed baby if it wasn’t tartarus with a trade of a slightly reduction in the save to show it’s been shaved a little armour weight to gain speed
Loved the Death Guard / Whirlwind and the Flamestorm Vindicator cannon idea.
I've played with the idea for a more powerful Melta Cannon with the Lance rule added on to it.
Similarly firing as the Melta lance from the Leviathan dreads melta gun
Whoa whoa whoa! Are you saying were missing out on unique word eater bodyguards with WS5! How have we not got that must have unit!
It's the same with the order of release of legions, FW drops the less desired legions and units first because that will increase sales over all.
Macca, could you apply for ruleswriter at GW/FW please?
They don't want me, even if I was the best writer on the planet, I can assure you.
@@TheOuterCircle because you care about the customers? Do they expect a loss of income because of that?
Friggin hate this corporate BS
I think his rules put too much soul back into the game and we cannot have that. ;_; Honestly going through this video, it has made me realize that this is what is misisng in the modern sytem and modeling practices. It feels like overall GW is more focused on the profits than the actual soul and fluff of the game that made it fun in the first place.
I would chose to change the Atramentar to, 0-1 5-10 models in Catapractii terminator armor. I'd keep cloaked in murder since it is more useful for Catapractii, but I would make it so when they deep strike in they would gain shrouded so they don't get nuked when they arrive. Then WS 5 ( maybe) with standard terminator equipment. Then make them all characters like Deathshroud make them able to replace a command squad
I think the constraint you are missing is that the dominators can be created from existing terminators plus a weapon upgrade pack. The unfortunate reality is that if they add anything too spicy without a model to sell and therefor an article like this is kneecap in terms of what can be added in it.
I can tell you I met some of the Forgeworld staff at Warhammer world HQ in Nottingham UK. . . so I am not suprised to why Horus Herasy is going to the pan.
I will spare the details however couple of them are a bit clueless and don't really have much intrest in the lore and rules there just pushing to sell off models there design team have created.
However, it must be noted that the reason Horus Heresy is not getting much love or attetion is because Forgeworld are the ones who are in charge the new up comming Warhammer re-boot of Warhammer Fantasy battles.
WB should have Anointed Terminators, EC should 100% have Sunkillers. Regarding Morlocks, Devourers, Triarii and Deliverers they're in the same boat as Sanguinary Guard, Atramentar, Justaerin and some other famous units. People like them, know them, and want them, so they should get them.
Think IW should have a melee unit to help them storm breaches, since their Index Astartes compared them to BA and WE among others. Maybe rending melee Breachers with a bunch of attacks and some special rules? Furious Charge, Hatred, Rage?
Watching that page just made em realize something, even HH still have the good old "Point on the datasheet" thing that 40k decided for some bafingly stupid reason to remove, deciding to have them be at the end of the book, because why would ANYONE want to see points when looking at a datasheet amirit?
I think all legions should have a terminator elite, but be different from a bodyguard unit. I think terminators are a special enough a unit from other things that they should be included with legion specific rules, this is not to say that they should be competitive against other terminator elites, but something that gives them an advantage over the average terminator squad.
As for characters I'd want a Santor for the Iron Hands as well, Meduson is a cool Iron Hands character but if I were to throw in my hat for a different named one, it would be Amadeus DuCaine because he is just so old and he's still got his Mk.I armor. Unfortunately whenever black library tries to portray an Iron Hands character it is almost always in a light that never does them justice. Like Ezekyle Abaddon is an asshole, but they include something likeable or sympathetic about him so you aren't just cheering when he gets his face punched in. The Iron Hands though? None of that. Meduson is as close as it gets and they make him die like a bitch and the runner up Autek Mor, although responsible for essentially destroying the World Eaters home world by throwing a moon at it, is largely unknown and is still just portrayed as a massive dickhole for no other reason. In short, BL/GW/FW sucks donkey dick at writing Iron Hands
With the talk of HH 2.0 coming out in the near future, are we even sure these rules will be relevant in a year? Look at Pariah Nexus coming out about, I might be a little off, 1.5 years before the total revamp of KT.
for the sons of horus they could add a unit of outriders or tartaros terminators, both with ws 5 or something like that
Any chance of you doing a video on the recent rumours about the HH refresh?
Not thinking about balance, but a breacher squad sidegrade with astartes shotguns with bonus to hit in close range would be cool.
I did not think that Lucius has game rule let alone a miniature and how would the The Cohors Nasicae, Lucius' personal bodyguard work in the game?
I would want Marius Vairosean in the game because a Rite of War written around him would make the Kakophoni work.
Love the idea of Kakophoni Contemptor Dreadnaughts
i would also love to see Captain Solomon Demeter of the 2 Company of the Emperor's Children in the game
I would love to see the luperci, the gal vorbak are my favorite miniatures and i think the sons of horus interpretation would be awesome.
OuterCircle have you considered making a "fan made" 30k edition?
This is somewhat painful...
There is barely any lore about them. Instead they could have expanded the Brethren of the Iron Warriors. And some special weapons, Iron Warriors make tech so why no special tech for their elites units? Like a massive Broadsword. And all this "we were replaced by bots, me resent and bitter..." is shit. Ok, they ate in disgrace, so why not give them a rule like "one last chance for Glory!" Or a death march special rule were they are so mad and sad for having lost their righteous place beside their beloved Primarch they go full suicide. Make them more, instead of less.
Iron within...
I've always wanted the Salamanders have a unique Rapier. With an overwatch only flamer or melta just to breach bulkheads or something
Problem is Dantioch never lived long enough to join the Sigilite.
They probably focusing on releasing a new edition of HH, and this sheets are just a breadcrumbs and snippets to make it easier to wait and slowly heat up the hype.
Oh ya, the Iron Hands. They are a thing aren't they?
Watch packs are a nice idea with an 5 man unit and choosable only if the LOW is a Primarch. Love the Idea of the Iron pattern Deredeo, and a Gorgon pattern Contemptor, to. I've missed the SOH. Honestly i didn't follow closley their rules, but as a Book 1 Legion they cannot get enough heed. The Garviel Loken vibe is still to strong in this legion, but it must go. Garviel Loken as a SOH character was intresting for a campaign but after that he can be an independent support, like Dantioch or nothing at all. In case of SOH, Maloghurst is fine addeddum, but need to represent the 16'th more, representetive characters like Argonis. Later years this this legion became an amalgam of all the other traitor forces. There are crazy sorcerers, (maloghurst) cult leaders, (thargost) daemon hosts, (Tormageddon) fiercest most terrifiyng warriors. (Aximand, Ekkadon) And Horus needs a secondary profile for his after molech ascended version, probably he cannot use bodyguards anymore but he became a one man army, a god of war.
Always wanted rules for the Whisper Cutter.
Some cool ideas here. What about Omegon for the Alpha Legion?
Little known fact, I'm not a pro-twins advocate. That crap started with the novels and it plays into my most hated aspect of the Alpha Legion, convoluted circles within circles BS that doesn't, for me, enhance the story.
I honestly think this is all we can expect until HH is discontinued in the reasonably far future. Such a shame, but RIP
yeah, it will be axed. with the plastic kit leaks it shows that it is dead. you heard it here first folks!!!
While I don't feel like the new IW terminators are ass garbage or anything I do understand your point, iron warriors didn't need another terminator unit they needed something else. I'd definitely love the Castellan Rhino and some more characters like dantioch (especially because I'm building a Pharos force) I was kinda hoping for some other type of power Armored infantry unit.
At the very least this might mean we get an iron warriors character next
I play Iron Hands and like the idea of a Gorgon Pattern Dreadnought. The Iron Hands lack any characters actually.
Thanks Macca we gonna have them in 3-4 weeks like the destroyers !
The mobile wall tactic with rhino is more "hussites wagons" inspired (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_wagon)
They really need to change HH rules to 9th edition 40K, just so that you can use HH armies in 9th edition. If they did that, then it would be amazing and give people a reason to buy HH stuff other than due to nostalgia or FW elitism. The fact I can use my Custodes in both 40K and HH makes me glad I went with that army. They need to do the same with Astartes/Chaos.
I love these ideas, macca. I really do
Going to be honest if they made a vindicator with a big fuck off flamer I'd buy even if it was legion specific to salamanders
INtresting!
I think they should make the traitor characters when they have them such as Luther.
Is there any special units or characters that non legion factions should get? Like auxilia or mechanicum
Some engineers would be great for Solar. We kindaaa have it through the Tech Adepts, but those can't take squad wide carapace armour or transports. Would function like legion support squads
i like all of your ideas, raptors should act more like primaris instead of gal vorbak i think
gal vorbak are just too unique to have an equivalent in another legion
Who is this for? The three people who still play HH/7th edition? Its hard enough to find people that play regular modern 40k, leaving the HH games in 7th edition pretty much turned it into a very expensive specialty game.
I personally pay with dozens of people across Australia and NZ and big events regularly hit the 30+ attendees. Remember that many of the people playing 30k do so because they don't like 8/9th edition and don't want to play it.
Great stuff Macca, really tickles the fluff bone! Really appreciate the list including a Castraferrum unit, they are indeed underrepresented.
Santar’s death was such BS. He survives the first time and you think he’s finally going to get his revenge then nope. He dies.
I think the main issue with iron warriors isn't their rules it's the fact they're boring. Boring theme, boring colour scheme, boring inconsistent lore and a lack of unique models
Spot on points mate
hell yes to rhino bunkers!
Some great ideas. Me likely
A tualy lore wise the dominators are bitter at automata the failuire was unevitable not really their fault but porturabo has standards of perfection in war that almost supass even fulgrims vanity if his ken arnt doing perfect their a chance he just use decimation on them again
Disagree on Raldoron he's a badass. First captain, beast in Fear to Tread, Beast in the Siege of Terra
I said they have Raldoran, I didn't say anything bad about him, I said bad things about the other BA character, the Crone guy.
To be honest I'm a lot more interested in 30k.
S.S.D.D
If you still support GW at this point, you are the main problem
Stop making single wound terminators, they fucking suck. They have no staying power and die to bolters.
You will allow it macca? Lol
Well, if I was writing the rules, by default I'd be dictating the terms, would I not?
I wonder what TSF Honsou would say about these rules.
I would chose to change the Atramentar to, 0-1 5-10 models in Catapractii terminator armor. I'd keep cloaked in murder since it is more useful for Catapractii, but I would make it so when they deep strike in they would gain shrouded so they don't get nuked when they arrive. Then WS 5 ( maybe) with standard terminator equipment. Then make them all characters like Deathshroud make them able to replace a command squad.