Ashish! Your wonderful channel has been a favourite of mine for a long time. Thanks for stopping by - it's made my day. You are of course right - I'd missed the right hand diminutions completely. The depth in this piece is endless! 👏😊
I actually have to thank you a lot for posting this. A detailed analysis of the sonata is really difficult to be done. I really appreciate your effort; not many people have such knowledge 💯
What a superb analysis! Keep it up! I would love to see an analysis on other large works such as Hammerklavier, Gaspard de la nuit, or Ives's Concord Sonata.
I'm currently learning to play this piece, I just managed to overtake the tricky fugato and I have to say that playing the notes is ONLY the beginning. It takes much more time to understand the structure of the piece, its implications and the way to play it as properly as possible. In this regard, your analysis is extremely helpful and well achieved, with pedagogy and dedication and I am very grateful for that. I'm about halfway through the video but I just HAD to comment right away 😂 I only have one little remark if I may, from bar 45 to 50, the right hand (usually neglected by most pianists) gives a repeated reduction of the Coriolan theme, as suggested by the dynamics.
Great observation re bars 45 to 50! It's very clear now you've pointed it out, and Liszt evidently wanted it articulated. Many thanks for the note 😊 Good luck learning this incredible piece! 👍
It might just be me looking for it but I feel like the Coriolan motif is everywhere. Like so many places! Just small fragments or hints of it harmonically, some times spread out across octaves, other times rhythmically referred. Amazing video! Thank you so much for making it! This piece is truly a masterpiece of great dimensions!
Musical and scholarly inspiring analysis. I wish I had this youTUBE analysis during my student days. How lucky and privileged are the generations these days. THANK YOU!
I really appreciate you making this very insightful analysis! I like your interpretation of the ending as the forces of darkness (deprived of their strength and threat) leaving the stage one by one.
I love music and can sort of play the piano but I'm not a scholar and this is just perfect in being accessible yet also providing information that makes more sense to someone who has studied music. I have listened to this piece a lot lately and spotted motifs and some order but your interpretation is marvelously clarifying.
what an incredible analysis of one my favourite piece for piano, ever. i feel like all of liszt's works, whether they were based on other works of art or not, always carry with them some sort of story and/or narrative. thank you so much for this video!
Really glad you found it interesting! Yes, I agree. I think Liszt's interest in thematic development often infuses his works with a powerful narrative momentum 👍
Wow. Holy cow, truly remarkable. I've always wanted a video that highlighted all those motives and transformations like Richard Atkinson and right after I returned to this piece today I see that your video came out a few days ago. This piece is so rich that it really did require a full hour and you put in so much work to make it happen. This is a brilliant professional analysis and this will definitely get more than 166 views. Incredible job, you really did justice to my favorite sonata. Thank you!!
I never heard this sonata until a few weeks ago. It’s an intensely dramatic piece, but it also has a very complex structure; after a couple of hearings, you can start to perceive that there’s some deeper logic to it, that draws you in even if you don’t fully understand why. At that point you should listen to this fantastic commentary - it will be an hour and a quarter well spent!
Thank you so much. I'm really overwhelmed with gratitude and admiration - there's so much detail, intelligence, attention and tact in how you approach this great music. Thank you.
I bought the sheet music for this almost a year ago only to read and analyse it, (+play the beginning ;) ) after hearing Seong Jin-Cho play it in Helsinki (The best concert I have ever been). Almost a year later, I'm at the point of starting to be able to play pieces that I have dreamed of playing: and today I just happened to remember the beginning. I took the sheet music from my shelf and few minutes later I found myself on b31 just by sight reading(Last year I got to b17, because I have always been a slow noob when it comes to sight reading). I stopped and thought, that I should see, if I still love analysing this sonata and maby start learning it. I found your video and after the end of it, and seeing my Henle edition's last page, I felt so satisfied: this felt like reading a book with someone. I don't believe that I won't yet to be able to play the hardest parts, but I believe that, practicing this on daily bases (20-30% of my total practice time), I would advance at the same time the piece advances. Hopefully the excitement that I have now, will continue at this level for few weeks, because I'll perform Saint-Saens PC no2 mv1 in two weeks (two piano), and now I don't have time to start practicing this immediately ;) Thanks again for an amazing video! For some, this might sound cringe af :v but I don't mind.
Great analysis. Zimerman seems to play the tonic theme slightly faster in the recapitulation and I wonder if that’s an intentional choice to emphasize the story retuning to the beginning with new knowledge.
Thanks! That’s interesting - it’s not something I noticed. Whatever Zimerman plays will certainly be intentional but I can’t speak to his motivations. I often wonder how much is instinctive in the interpretations of the greats and how much is part of a thought-out conception 🤷♂️
Very interesting explanation. Thank you very much! And I think as well, the conclusion of this masterpiece is meant to be positive (and is not the sign of resignation) - the "piano" at the end only reflects the same "piano" at the very beginning... But I am just humble listener.. :)
Excellent breakdown of this monstrous piece. Will you be uploading any more videos soon? I really enjoy your content and would love to see more in the future!
I love your analysis of the sonata. And Liszt reminds me of Beethoven and Chopin simultaneously. It’s like he has the virtuosic lyricism of Chopin combined with the drama and motivic development of Beethoven. Chopin might be my favorite Romantic composer, but Liszt is second on that list. And Beethoven is my favorite composer of all time. So you can see why I love Liszt as much as I do. But Liszt is very difficult for me to play, even after more than 10 years of piano playing. I can play Toccata and Fugue in D Minor, one of if not the most difficult Bach piece for solo piano, from the organ score on the piano. I can play the Liszt transcription of Beethoven’s Fifth Symphony(although the first movement always ends up being an hour long, yet, it doesn’t seem too slow when I do that), although I do have to change it some, as I can’t play twelfths or even tenths, so I have to shrink it down to octaves. But that doesn’t really effect the piece that much. I can play the Liszt transcription of Schubert"s La Serenade as well, which doesn’t pose that wide interval problem that the symphony transcription I mentioned earlier does, but does sustain polyrhythms. But what about Liebestraum, one of the "easier Liszt pieces"? The answer to that is that I technically can play Liebestraum, but one thing happens whenever I play it, rogue notes, usually Bb popping up in the E Major B section when I should be playing a B natural. This does happen sometimes even when I go from one piece to another, especially if the first piece has a lot of flats.
Thanks for the comment! It sounds like you've made a lot more progress in 10 years' of piano playing than I have in 30, so I wouldn't worry about the occasional rogue note! 😉
God bless you for this video! I loved your dramatic characterization of the themes, the transformation of the themes, and the tonal directions and their impact to form! I will direct all of my students and colleagues to your channel. Can you please analyze next Schumann's "Grande Sonate" (ie. op. 17) which seems to be what the Liszt's sonata is answering to? For example the opening theme of Schumann Fantasy with its initial repeating note followed by a descending line seems to resemble the opening of the Liszt Sonata. Keep up the amazing work!!
Thanks for the generous comment, Daniel! Much appreciated 😊 The Schumann Op.17 would certainly be a challenge - I love it but also find it a hard work to analyse in a meaningful way. I’ll add it to the list 👍
Thank you SOOO much for this analysis! I’m truly grateful. Why haven’t I got this recommendation earlier? This has always been one of my favorite music works and I’ve been to concerts and read different commentaries/analyses but none made me experience the spiritual transcendence like you did. Personally I’m not much a fan of Beethoven-hero style anguish-happiness directional music but I really am deeply moved by this one. As a non musical student I got many chills and burst into tears during the descending major scales right before Coda. We sure could agree to disagree tho I personally prefer to think the ending as evils still lurking, especially from the final short dry base note…
So glad you found it interesting! Yes, the lead-in to the coda gives me chills every time. Stunning. Haha, well I know many hear the ending as you do and it certainly makes sense. Think I’m just an optimist! 🤷♂️😉
My favorite sonata! Makes me feel powerful in a way i can’t comprehend. I want to learn it 1 day but im not that capable of that level yet 😢 anyways great video!
That’s a very good analysis! It was very interesting to compare it to my own I made some time ago (which is much less complete...). Thank you very much!
Thank you for a thoughtful discussion! One more thing that I think you may take into consideration is that the very opening motif - as well as being a scalar descent - opens with an upward minor 7th leap (to go into the Phrygian descent), then the second time it leaps up a major 7th (to go into the Hungarian descent). Liszt notated this clearly in the left hand part. (And then consider that the so called "Coriolan" motif is heralded with an upward octave jump, expanding the interval another semitone.) This upward 7th jump connects this motif to the Andante Sostenuto - look at that single-line fragment in bar340, and the 7th leap also makes its way into the Grandioso theme at one of it's dramatic appearances in bar368. This rising 7th is also very prominent in the bars leading up to the so called "Epilogue."
Yes, absolutely! Because there are seventh leaps prominent in both the opening ‘Pathetique’ motif and the 'Coriolan’ (though the Coriolan is obviously downward), the context in which these 7ths appear is key, and as I say in the video I don’t hear the Coriolan in Bar 340 as some analysts do. Your interpretation makes far more sense to my ears given the relationship of the Andante to the Grandioso/Pathetique, and the fact that it is followed by scalar rather than arpeggio material (also Bars 342-4). Likewise, as you say, the 7th leap followed by a scale is all over that second iteration of the Grandioso, further evidence of its close relationship to the Pathetique. Thank you for the very interesting insight! 😊
Im a Korean high school student who still studies English and music theory in here and I absolutely love this video. I personally like the composer Liszt and like to listen to his works but woah... this is another level XD So much thankful for this intellectual video. Luv from KR
What an amazing analysis! I haven’t even seen the whole video and yet i already feel like i know the piece on a much deeper level. Only thing i didn’t like was the use of the word “ugly” when defining the Hammerschlag theme, since it is one of my favorite elements of the piece haha
Thank you for a wonderfully clear and illuminating analysis! And also for avoiding any programmatic interpretation -- my feeling is that had Liszt intended to limit the scope of the piece to a particular scenario, he would have said something about it to someone else at some point. I feel you are quite correct to hear the Sonate as a process between Light and Darkness, the two polar opposites of the composer's makeup... many of Liszt's works explore this terrain in one way or another, though never in such a concise and densely packed form.
Very well analyzed. I agreed with you on 99.99%. 😊 Only 2 suggestion. 479 viewed as an extended bar from 478, codetta for more significant appearance. Final line 6/4 chord is to showcase the negative dark side C natural here as a flatten supertonic chord finally resolve into the big B natural hence avoid root B before the final bar, and therefore 100% positive power.
This video is honestly genuinely amazing. Thank you so much for the time you put into this - I cannot begin to express how grateful I am for content like this! Liszt's Piano Sonata is my all-time favourite piece and there is a surprising lack of love for the piece on UA-cam. Keep up the amazing work, I'm looking forward to your future content.
I wish I didn't know this piece already so I could experience the ingenious transition from the Hammerschlag to the Andante and be surprised once more...
I'm going to keep returning here until I see that your video and channel has blown up. It's only a matter of time until the youtube algorithm causes people to find your channel. With this content, you'll go so far, I can't wait to see when it happens
Very insightful analysis of such a monumental work, but I wish you would have talked about Liszt's original ending to the sonata and why he eventually settled on a more quiet, introspective coda.
Thanks! ☺️ Yes, the different endings are an interesting point of discussion. I would also have liked to spend more time on the harmonic aspects. There’s so much to say about this masterpiece….Maybe I’ll do a follow-up one day! 🤷♂️
Thanks, Jakob! The cross motif has been identified in Via Crucis, The Legend of St. Elisabeth, and The Dante Symphony, amongst others. I recommend googling the Tibor Szász article in the description for detail on this; you may not agree with his programmatic interpretation of the sonata, but it's a really interesting article!
@@trocomposition4216 Oh it is super interesting! I appreciate the extra insight. What an amazing piece of music. Thank god I have found your channel, so I can fully appreciate it!!!
thank you for this analysis. I am bit new to classical music. Can you please tell me in the exposition part, which is the part A and which is the part B? Thank you
Hi! In conventional sonata form, the Exposition is often divided into First and Second Subject Areas, which is probably what is meant by Part A and B. Liszt’s sonata deliberately toys with sonata form so it is less straightforward here. But, broadly speaking, the second subject area is often said to begin at Bar 105 (see 16:07 in the video). This is because the second subject area (Part B) is frequently identified with a change of key (usually to the relative major in a minor key) and it changes to D Major here. Hope that helps 😊
I love this detailed analysis. A couple of thoughts: 1. I don't know if I'm alone in this, but when I hear the little ornamental turns leaping upwards, like at the end of the Andante theme, or even after what you call the "chorus", (especially when the figure is a quintuplet) I can't help but to recall "Eusebius" from Schumann's Carnival where this figure is motivic. Is this a coincidence or is Liszt writing a little homage to his dear friend Robert? Perhaps the gesture is too generic and I may be reading too much into it, but the fact that Liszt dedicated the sonata to Robert and sent a copy to Clara in what was a very traumatic year for the Schumanns suggest perhaps a connection. What do you think? 2. The "impossible crescendo" from pp to ppp at the end has a simple explanation. The hairpins in the nineteenth century were not dynamic markings. You see this kind of "impossible" markings all over the place, in Chopin, Brahms, Liszt. Simplistically put, the "growing" hairpin means "more", but that doesn't necessarily mean "more volume." It can, but it can also mean "more time," for example. It's an expressive marking, not a dynamic one.
That’s such an interesting observation re Eusebius! It had never occurred to me. Ordinarily I’d say it’s a coincidence involving a common turn of phrase, but the personal connection to the Schumanns you outline is certainly suggestive. That and the fact that the Andante is very much in keeping with the character of ‘Eusebius the Mild’. I honestly don’t know, but I’ll always hear the relationship from now on - thank you for enriching my experience of this piece 🙏☺️
@@trocomposition4216 The connection hadn't occurred to me either until I recently. I was discussing the piece and its connection to the Schumanns with students (Clara hated this sonata, of course, as most things about Liszt). A student asked me if the piece could be read programmatically as being about Robert, and I honestly had not thought about it, but got intrigued. I went back to listen to it, and followed up with a quick search on UA-cam, which is how I found your analysis (thank you so much, I very much enjoyed your insights). Anyway, when I got to the Andante, I couldn't help but hear Eusebius. Had I not been asked about it, I'm not sure it would have crossed my mind. :-)
I am just looking at the last frame of the score with the mysterious descending scale, neither fish nor fowl. If it weren't for the D#, it would be Phrygian. I always had the intuition that the cryptic scales in the beginning and end hold important keys to analysis but I haven't made the effort to figure it out yet.
Thank you so much for this analysis! Excellent, excellent work! I very much enjoyed the way you presented your analysis with all the color-coding, and you guided us along while letting the music do the talking. Feeling quite inspired now and ready to write some music! Cheers!
Hi! Interesting question. I’d say Liszt stays close to standard maj/min scales except where he is deliberately drawing attention to the Phrygian and Hungarian minor character of the opening motif.
Great video and really helpful for someone like me who loves compositional insights and analysis generally of pieces. Hope to see more, where do you study composition?
@@trocomposition4216 awesome, that's interesting as a lot of composers myself included have to take that path. Unless lucky enough to get into conservatory there is no composition specific subject at many regular universities like a few years ago. Have you used any helpful books or online resources to help with your composition education? Alan Belkin is really good, he has a UA-cam channel.
@@lukegregg5944 Yes, I love Alan's channel - and his compositions for that matter. Maybe I'll do a video on the books and sites I've found most useful 😊
At 36:54, while I was listening to this piece before viewing any analysis I had interpreted these phrases as an inverted version of the first few notes of the corialan, where instead of a fall down and a step up it is a rise up and a step down, which may be what these analysts are referring to. Wonderful video!
In the Faust Symphony, there is also a thematic introduction/exposition before the proper exposition in c minor. But in that introduction only two motifs are presented, and in the exposition we hear three new motifs. But there is a similar transformation of the second motif from the introduction which appear as a love theme in the second group (in E major) in analogy with the Sonata. The difference is that a grandioso theme appears after the love theme in the symphony, but before the love theme in the Sonata.
So I am tempted to interpret the Sonata as a Faust Sonata, with the Gretchen theme unchanged in the coda, and Faust's soul ascends to heaven at the very end.
@@trocomposition4216 The interpretation has grown upon me over 30 years, but it is more important to emphasize Liszt's inventive use of the sonata form in other works as well.
And in the first movement of the Faust Symphony, the introduction re-appears after interrupting the recapitulation which initially starts in the wrong key (C#minor instead of c minor), and the recap then continues after this extended re-introduction. The fugato turns up in the third movement.
Hi Lucas. This is very much my own subjective impression based on the mood of the two openings and the prominence of descending scalar motifs in both (left hand of Beethoven’s intro and first theme, and the right hand of the second theme). It’s also a nod to Liszt’s Concerto Pathétique, which foreshadows the themes and structure of the Sonata in many ways. Hope that clarifies and thanks for watching! 😊
@@trocomposition4216 But the left hand of Beethoven's intro has not a descending scale (only 3 notes descending after which it goes up) and the first theme has not a descending scale either. I think it's not a good reference. I don't see the relation between the second theme and the Coriolan overture by Beethoven either. This is quite an original piece in the thematic sense, I don't see why you try to associate this with other music.
@@trocomposition4216 I had a bit of a hard time seeing the congruence between the descending scales and Beethoven's Pathétique Sonata. However, you did quite an awesome job with your analysis. I always thought this sonata more as a tryptich with the non repearing theme in the middle. Chopin does this in his Fantasie and somewhat left of center in the Polonaise Fantasie. Great job!
The Liszt sonata is already some 60 years my favourite piano piece. But after this "explanation" I finally get why I cannot play it. Far too difficult. My favourite interpretation is the version recorded by George Bolet
This is utterly astonishing; I would never have seen 99% of this without your video! One question: which score are you using here? It seems to reflect very closely Liszt's autograph (including fingerings), which most editions do not...
Really glad to hear you found it useful! 😊 Yes, it's the Neue Liszt-Ausgabe 👍 It's available on IMSLP and I'd also recommend Leslie Howard's very helpful summary of the situation re Liszt publications here: www.lisztsoc.org.uk/liszts-published-music
Hi. The tempo and texture vary throughout. In terms of texture, your cousin might benefit from watching this video/listening to the work and identifying which parts are primarily homophonic (melody + accompaniment), which parts more contrapuntal (multiple independent melodic lines), and which parts are monophonic (one line in unison/octaves). With regards form, whole books have been written on this subject! I take a narrative approach but I imagine an assignment would need to address the issue of double function form; I would recommend Kenneth Hamilton's Cambridge Handbook (details in the description), which has a great summary of the main formal interpretations in the literature. This will help guide your cousin's listening as they formulate their own approach to the piece. Good luck! 👍
You are reading the notes that's fine all pieces are written by notes where is the music can you repeat just 2 bars wile you are taking a bath?one way hi way boring chromatic scales four fingers arpeggios this is an exercise not a musical piece
Wonderful stuff! Just one thing I wanted to point out: in bar 642, the coriolan is in the RH too, in an even more diminuted* form.
Ashish! Your wonderful channel has been a favourite of mine for a long time. Thanks for stopping by - it's made my day. You are of course right - I'd missed the right hand diminutions completely. The depth in this piece is endless! 👏😊
@@trocomposition4216 What does Coriolan mean?
@@AnatoArchives Hi! See 3:37. Liszt likened this theme to Beethoven's Coriolan Overture 👍
I actually have to thank you a lot for posting this. A detailed analysis of the sonata is really difficult to be done. I really appreciate your effort; not many people have such knowledge 💯
Thank you! Really glad you found it useful.
What a superb analysis! Keep it up!
I would love to see an analysis on other large works such as Hammerklavier, Gaspard de la nuit, or Ives's Concord Sonata.
Thanks! I’ve added all of those to the list 👍
This analysis is awesome. I will never unhear the analysis observations when listening to the original :)
Glad you found it interesting! 😊
I'm currently learning to play this piece, I just managed to overtake the tricky fugato and I have to say that playing the notes is ONLY the beginning. It takes much more time to understand the structure of the piece, its implications and the way to play it as properly as possible. In this regard, your analysis is extremely helpful and well achieved, with pedagogy and dedication and I am very grateful for that. I'm about halfway through the video but I just HAD to comment right away 😂 I only have one little remark if I may, from bar 45 to 50, the right hand (usually neglected by most pianists) gives a repeated reduction of the Coriolan theme, as suggested by the dynamics.
Great observation re bars 45 to 50! It's very clear now you've pointed it out, and Liszt evidently wanted it articulated. Many thanks for the note 😊 Good luck learning this incredible piece! 👍
I have always been overwhelmed by this piece but after listening to this i felt more confident and enjoyed the sonata soooo much more! Thank you!
You're welcome! Glad you found it useful 😊
It might just be me looking for it but I feel like the Coriolan motif is everywhere. Like so many places! Just small fragments or hints of it harmonically, some times spread out across octaves, other times rhythmically referred.
Amazing video! Thank you so much for making it! This piece is truly a masterpiece of great dimensions!
Thanks! Yes, good point about the rhythmic references - easy to miss 👍
Musical and scholarly inspiring analysis. I wish I had this youTUBE analysis during my student days. How lucky and privileged are the generations these days. THANK YOU!
Thank you for the kind words and you're very welcome! I'm glad you found it useful 😊
I really appreciate you making this very insightful analysis! I like your interpretation of the ending as the forces of darkness (deprived of their strength and threat) leaving the stage one by one.
Thanks! I appreciate the kind words ☺️
I love music and can sort of play the piano but I'm not a scholar and this is just perfect in being accessible yet also providing information that makes more sense to someone who has studied music. I have listened to this piece a lot lately and spotted motifs and some order but your interpretation is marvelously clarifying.
That’s great to hear! Thanks ☺️
what an incredible analysis of one my favourite piece for piano, ever. i feel like all of liszt's works, whether they were based on other works of art or not, always carry with them some sort of story and/or narrative. thank you so much for this video!
Really glad you found it interesting! Yes, I agree. I think Liszt's interest in thematic development often infuses his works with a powerful narrative momentum 👍
Wow. Holy cow, truly remarkable. I've always wanted a video that highlighted all those motives and transformations like Richard Atkinson and right after I returned to this piece today I see that your video came out a few days ago. This piece is so rich that it really did require a full hour and you put in so much work to make it happen. This is a brilliant professional analysis and this will definitely get more than 166 views. Incredible job, you really did justice to my favorite sonata. Thank you!!
You're very welcome, Logan! And thank you for your generous words - I really appreciate it 😊
I never heard this sonata until a few weeks ago. It’s an intensely dramatic piece, but it also has a very complex structure; after a couple of hearings, you can start to perceive that there’s some deeper logic to it, that draws you in even if you don’t fully understand why. At that point you should listen to this fantastic commentary - it will be an hour and a quarter well spent!
Thanks, Charles! Glad you found the video useful 😊
Thank you so much. I'm really overwhelmed with gratitude and admiration - there's so much detail, intelligence, attention and tact in how you approach this great music. Thank you.
Thank you for the kind words, Lyala! ☺️
This deserves way more than 20 likes
Deserves way more than 822 likes
Fabulous. Thank you!
I bought the sheet music for this almost a year ago only to read and analyse it, (+play the beginning ;) ) after hearing Seong Jin-Cho play it in Helsinki (The best concert I have ever been). Almost a year later, I'm at the point of starting to be able to play pieces that I have dreamed of playing: and today I just happened to remember the beginning. I took the sheet music from my shelf and few minutes later I found myself on b31 just by sight reading(Last year I got to b17, because I have always been a slow noob when it comes to sight reading). I stopped and thought, that I should see, if I still love analysing this sonata and maby start learning it. I found your video and after the end of it, and seeing my Henle edition's last page, I felt so satisfied: this felt like reading a book with someone. I don't believe that I won't yet to be able to play the hardest parts, but I believe that, practicing this on daily bases (20-30% of my total practice time), I would advance at the same time the piece advances. Hopefully the excitement that I have now, will continue at this level for few weeks, because I'll perform Saint-Saens PC no2 mv1 in two weeks (two piano), and now I don't have time to start practicing this immediately ;) Thanks again for an amazing video! For some, this might sound cringe af :v but I don't mind.
Glad you liked the video and I hope the Liszt practice goes well! Best of luck with the Saint-Saens - it's an amazing piece 👍
Great analysis. Zimerman seems to play the tonic theme slightly faster in the recapitulation and I wonder if that’s an intentional choice to emphasize the story retuning to the beginning with new knowledge.
Thanks! That’s interesting - it’s not something I noticed. Whatever Zimerman plays will certainly be intentional but I can’t speak to his motivations. I often wonder how much is instinctive in the interpretations of the greats and how much is part of a thought-out conception 🤷♂️
Very interesting explanation. Thank you very much! And I think as well, the conclusion of this masterpiece is meant to be positive (and is not the sign of resignation) - the "piano" at the end only reflects the same "piano" at the very beginning... But I am just humble listener.. :)
Excellent breakdown of this monstrous piece. Will you be uploading any more videos soon? I really enjoy your content and would love to see more in the future!
Thanks! Much appreciated. I hope so - definitely have plenty of pieces on the list I’d like to get stuck into!
Wonderful video! Deserves much more attention.
Thanks, Jason. Much appreciated!
Amazin video. Since I'm learning this piece, it's going to be of great help. Thanks!
Thanks! Glad you’re finding it useful. Best of luck with learning the piece - it’s a monster!
Thanks for this fascinating insight into this great sonata!
You're very welcome, svrfan! Glad you enjoyed it :-)
I love your analysis of the sonata. And Liszt reminds me of Beethoven and Chopin simultaneously. It’s like he has the virtuosic lyricism of Chopin combined with the drama and motivic development of Beethoven. Chopin might be my favorite Romantic composer, but Liszt is second on that list. And Beethoven is my favorite composer of all time. So you can see why I love Liszt as much as I do. But Liszt is very difficult for me to play, even after more than 10 years of piano playing.
I can play Toccata and Fugue in D Minor, one of if not the most difficult Bach piece for solo piano, from the organ score on the piano. I can play the Liszt transcription of Beethoven’s Fifth Symphony(although the first movement always ends up being an hour long, yet, it doesn’t seem too slow when I do that), although I do have to change it some, as I can’t play twelfths or even tenths, so I have to shrink it down to octaves. But that doesn’t really effect the piece that much. I can play the Liszt transcription of Schubert"s La Serenade as well, which doesn’t pose that wide interval problem that the symphony transcription I mentioned earlier does, but does sustain polyrhythms. But what about Liebestraum, one of the "easier Liszt pieces"? The answer to that is that I technically can play Liebestraum, but one thing happens whenever I play it, rogue notes, usually Bb popping up in the E Major B section when I should be playing a B natural. This does happen sometimes even when I go from one piece to another, especially if the first piece has a lot of flats.
Thanks for the comment! It sounds like you've made a lot more progress in 10 years' of piano playing than I have in 30, so I wouldn't worry about the occasional rogue note! 😉
Fantastic video. I learned so much. Thank you.
You’re very welcome ☺️
Magnificent analysis of this magnificent sonata. Thank you very much.
You're very welcome, Henk. Glad you found it interesting! 😊
God bless you for this video! I loved your dramatic characterization of the themes, the transformation of the themes, and the tonal directions and their impact to form! I will direct all of my students and colleagues to your channel.
Can you please analyze next Schumann's "Grande Sonate" (ie. op. 17) which seems to be what the Liszt's sonata is answering to? For example the opening theme of Schumann Fantasy with its initial repeating note followed by a descending line seems to resemble the opening of the Liszt Sonata.
Keep up the amazing work!!
Thanks for the generous comment, Daniel! Much appreciated 😊 The Schumann Op.17 would certainly be a challenge - I love it but also find it a hard work to analyse in a meaningful way. I’ll add it to the list 👍
Thank you SOOO much for this analysis! I’m truly grateful. Why haven’t I got this recommendation earlier? This has always been one of my favorite music works and I’ve been to concerts and read different commentaries/analyses but none made me experience the spiritual transcendence like you did. Personally I’m not much a fan of Beethoven-hero style anguish-happiness directional music but I really am deeply moved by this one. As a non musical student I got many chills and burst into tears during the descending major scales right before Coda. We sure could agree to disagree tho I personally prefer to think the ending as evils still lurking, especially from the final short dry base note…
So glad you found it interesting! Yes, the lead-in to the coda gives me chills every time. Stunning. Haha, well I know many hear the ending as you do and it certainly makes sense. Think I’m just an optimist! 🤷♂️😉
Thank you so much for this wonderful content! I very much hope you will continue with your analysis! I am looking forward to it!
Thanks, Nikolay!
My favorite sonata! Makes me feel powerful in a way i can’t comprehend. I want to learn it 1 day but im not that capable of that level yet 😢 anyways great video!
That’s a very good analysis! It was very interesting to compare it to my own I made some time ago (which is much less complete...). Thank you very much!
Glad you liked it! 😊
Thank you for a thoughtful discussion! One more thing that I think you may take into consideration is that the very opening motif - as well as being a scalar descent - opens with an upward minor 7th leap (to go into the Phrygian descent), then the second time it leaps up a major 7th (to go into the Hungarian descent). Liszt notated this clearly in the left hand part. (And then consider that the so called "Coriolan" motif is heralded with an upward octave jump, expanding the interval another semitone.) This upward 7th jump connects this motif to the Andante Sostenuto - look at that single-line fragment in bar340, and the 7th leap also makes its way into the Grandioso theme at one of it's dramatic appearances in bar368. This rising 7th is also very prominent in the bars leading up to the so called "Epilogue."
Yes, absolutely! Because there are seventh leaps prominent in both the opening ‘Pathetique’ motif and the 'Coriolan’ (though the Coriolan is obviously downward), the context in which these 7ths appear is key, and as I say in the video I don’t hear the Coriolan in Bar 340 as some analysts do. Your interpretation makes far more sense to my ears given the relationship of the Andante to the Grandioso/Pathetique, and the fact that it is followed by scalar rather than arpeggio material (also Bars 342-4). Likewise, as you say, the 7th leap followed by a scale is all over that second iteration of the Grandioso, further evidence of its close relationship to the Pathetique. Thank you for the very interesting insight! 😊
Im a Korean high school student who still studies English and music theory in here and I absolutely love this video. I personally like the composer Liszt and like to listen to his works but woah... this is another level XD So much thankful for this intellectual video. Luv from KR
Thank you, Lee. You're very welcome!
What an amazing analysis! I haven’t even seen the whole video and yet i already feel like i know the piece on a much deeper level. Only thing i didn’t like was the use of the word “ugly” when defining the Hammerschlag theme, since it is one of my favorite elements of the piece haha
Haha, yes perhaps 'ugly' is the wrong word - I love the Hammerschlag theme too! Glad you found the video useful 😊
This is my favourite piece right now. Liszt was a genius, and this outstanding analysis proves it. Amazing work you did, Tom!
Thank you. Glad you found it interesting!
Thank you for a wonderfully clear and illuminating analysis! And also for avoiding any programmatic interpretation -- my feeling is that had Liszt intended to limit the scope of the piece to a particular scenario, he would have said something about it to someone else at some point. I feel you are quite correct to hear the Sonate as a process between Light and Darkness, the two polar opposites of the composer's makeup... many of Liszt's works explore this terrain in one way or another, though never in such a concise and densely packed form.
Agreed! 😊
Very well analyzed. I agreed with you on 99.99%. 😊 Only 2 suggestion. 479 viewed as an extended bar from 478, codetta for more significant appearance. Final line 6/4 chord is to showcase the negative dark side C natural here as a flatten supertonic chord finally resolve into the big B natural hence avoid root B before the final bar, and therefore 100% positive power.
This video is honestly genuinely amazing. Thank you so much for the time you put into this - I cannot begin to express how grateful I am for content like this! Liszt's Piano Sonata is my all-time favourite piece and there is a surprising lack of love for the piece on UA-cam. Keep up the amazing work, I'm looking forward to your future content.
Thank you for the kind words, Nicholas. I appreciate it 😊 More videos to come soon, I hope...
I wish I didn't know this piece already so I could experience the ingenious transition from the Hammerschlag to the Andante and be surprised once more...
Haha, I know what you mean. But the good news is that there always seems to be something new to find on each listening 😊
I'm going to keep returning here until I see that your video and channel has blown up. It's only a matter of time until the youtube algorithm causes people to find your channel. With this content, you'll go so far, I can't wait to see when it happens
Very insightful analysis of such a monumental work, but I wish you would have talked about Liszt's original ending to the sonata and why he eventually settled on a more quiet, introspective coda.
Thanks! ☺️ Yes, the different endings are an interesting point of discussion. I would also have liked to spend more time on the harmonic aspects. There’s so much to say about this masterpiece….Maybe I’ll do a follow-up one day! 🤷♂️
In what works did Liszt re-use the grandioso theme? Amazing video btw
Thanks, Jakob! The cross motif has been identified in Via Crucis, The Legend of St. Elisabeth, and The Dante Symphony, amongst others. I recommend googling the Tibor Szász article in the description for detail on this; you may not agree with his programmatic interpretation of the sonata, but it's a really interesting article!
@@trocomposition4216 Oh it is super interesting! I appreciate the extra insight. What an amazing piece of music. Thank god I have found your channel, so I can fully appreciate it!!!
This is the best video on UA-cam!
That’s very kind. Glad you enjoyed it! 😊
thank you for this analysis. I am bit new to classical music. Can you please tell me in the exposition part, which is the part A and which is the part B?
Thank you
Hi! In conventional sonata form, the Exposition is often divided into First and Second Subject Areas, which is probably what is meant by Part A and B. Liszt’s sonata deliberately toys with sonata form so it is less straightforward here. But, broadly speaking, the second subject area is often said to begin at Bar 105 (see 16:07 in the video). This is because the second subject area (Part B) is frequently identified with a change of key (usually to the relative major in a minor key) and it changes to D Major here. Hope that helps 😊
Hi, I just found your channel, please keep doing videos like this.
Thanks, Artem! Will do 👍
The diminished 7th in descent appears of course at the beginning of Beethoven's piano sonata, Op. 110 but also Chopin's Bb minor sonata.
Also another interesting descent at the beginning of a piece, the Db to C in the Funerailles, a larger interval but also dissonant, a minor 9th.
Great videos. Thank you
Thanks, Bobby!
I love this detailed analysis. A couple of thoughts: 1. I don't know if I'm alone in this, but when I hear the little ornamental turns leaping upwards, like at the end of the Andante theme, or even after what you call the "chorus", (especially when the figure is a quintuplet) I can't help but to recall "Eusebius" from Schumann's Carnival where this figure is motivic. Is this a coincidence or is Liszt writing a little homage to his dear friend Robert? Perhaps the gesture is too generic and I may be reading too much into it, but the fact that Liszt dedicated the sonata to Robert and sent a copy to Clara in what was a very traumatic year for the Schumanns suggest perhaps a connection. What do you think? 2. The "impossible crescendo" from pp to ppp at the end has a simple explanation. The hairpins in the nineteenth century were not dynamic markings. You see this kind of "impossible" markings all over the place, in Chopin, Brahms, Liszt. Simplistically put, the "growing" hairpin means "more", but that doesn't necessarily mean "more volume." It can, but it can also mean "more time," for example. It's an expressive marking, not a dynamic one.
That’s such an interesting observation re Eusebius! It had never occurred to me. Ordinarily I’d say it’s a coincidence involving a common turn of phrase, but the personal connection to the Schumanns you outline is certainly suggestive. That and the fact that the Andante is very much in keeping with the character of ‘Eusebius the Mild’. I honestly don’t know, but I’ll always hear the relationship from now on - thank you for enriching my experience of this piece 🙏☺️
@@trocomposition4216 The connection hadn't occurred to me either until I recently. I was discussing the piece and its connection to the Schumanns with students (Clara hated this sonata, of course, as most things about Liszt). A student asked me if the piece could be read programmatically as being about Robert, and I honestly had not thought about it, but got intrigued. I went back to listen to it, and followed up with a quick search on UA-cam, which is how I found your analysis (thank you so much, I very much enjoyed your insights). Anyway, when I got to the Andante, I couldn't help but hear Eusebius. Had I not been asked about it, I'm not sure it would have crossed my mind. :-)
This is why I love UA-cam 😊👍
0:12 I like your honesty😂
If only...😂
I am just looking at the last frame of the score with the mysterious descending scale, neither fish nor fowl. If it weren't for the D#, it would be Phrygian. I always had the intuition that the cryptic scales in the beginning and end hold important keys to analysis but I haven't made the effort to figure it out yet.
Has to be the fourth time I watch this video
Thanks for the analysis, I am practicing this piece for my final recital at school, it’s helpful.
Wow. You must like a challenge! Very best of luck 👍
Bravo for this video ! Can you do some on Scriabin late sonata ? the 9th one ou 5th one
Thanks! Good idea re Scriabin - I'll add it to the list 👍
At 19:09 - that's a chord you see in the Hammerklavier - I wonder if there's a reference?
Interesting idea. I don't hear it, but Liszt had an encyclopaedic knowledge of Beethoven's sonatas so it's certainly plausible!
Thank you so much for this analysis! Excellent, excellent work! I very much enjoyed the way you presented your analysis with all the color-coding, and you guided us along while letting the music do the talking. Feeling quite inspired now and ready to write some music! Cheers!
Thank you! I appreciate it. Good luck with the writing 😊
Brilliant explanation and contribution to Liszt's masterpiece!
Many thanks!
Excellent!
Thanks! Glad you liked it 😊
Excellent indeed
Is the 1 dislike by Clara Schumann?
Haha! 😂 Much as I admire Clara Schumann, I definitely disagree with her about this piece!
awesome
Thanks! 😊
Great video!
Thanks, Gabriel!
Are there any modes ussed in this piece besides phrygian in the descending motif?
Hi! Interesting question. I’d say Liszt stays close to standard maj/min scales except where he is deliberately drawing attention to the Phrygian and Hungarian minor character of the opening motif.
Holy Crap, how arent you more well known??
Thanks for the kind sentiment! It's early days, so we'll see how it goes...😊
This is in the Music Advanced Level set work in 1980 I think.Lots of work.
It's definitely an incredibly difficult piece to play! 😬
@@trocomposition4216 Indeed. It requires lots of really fast reflexes and responses.
Great video and really helpful for someone like me who loves compositional insights and analysis generally of pieces. Hope to see more, where do you study composition?
Thanks! I'm self-taught 👍
@@trocomposition4216 awesome, that's interesting as a lot of composers myself included have to take that path. Unless lucky enough to get into conservatory there is no composition specific subject at many regular universities like a few years ago. Have you used any helpful books or online resources to help with your composition education? Alan Belkin is really good, he has a UA-cam channel.
@@lukegregg5944 Yes, I love Alan's channel - and his compositions for that matter. Maybe I'll do a video on the books and sites I've found most useful 😊
@@trocomposition4216 that would make a great vid!
At 36:54, while I was listening to this piece before viewing any analysis I had interpreted these phrases as an inverted version of the first few notes of the corialan, where instead of a fall down and a step up it is a rise up and a step down, which may be what these analysts are referring to.
Wonderful video!
There are many similarities to the first movement of the Faust Symphony.
In the Faust Symphony, there is also a thematic introduction/exposition before the proper exposition in c minor. But in that introduction only two motifs are presented, and in the exposition we hear three new motifs. But there is a similar transformation of the second motif from the introduction which appear as a love theme in the second group (in E major) in analogy with the Sonata. The difference is that a grandioso theme appears after the love theme in the symphony, but before the love theme in the Sonata.
So I am tempted to interpret the Sonata as a Faust Sonata, with the Gretchen theme unchanged in the coda, and Faust's soul ascends to heaven at the very end.
Definitely a valid interpretation and well-argued 👍 Personally I prefer not to take a literal view but it wouldn’t surprise me if Liszt did!
@@trocomposition4216 The interpretation has grown upon me over 30 years, but it is more important to emphasize Liszt's inventive use of the sonata form in other works as well.
And in the first movement of the Faust Symphony, the introduction re-appears after interrupting the recapitulation which initially starts in the wrong key (C#minor instead of c minor), and the recap then continues after this extended re-introduction. The fugato turns up in the third movement.
1:50 I don't see any connection between this and Beethoven's Pathetique sonata, can you be more specific please?
Hi Lucas. This is very much my own subjective impression based on the mood of the two openings and the prominence of descending scalar motifs in both (left hand of Beethoven’s intro and first theme, and the right hand of the second theme). It’s also a nod to Liszt’s Concerto Pathétique, which foreshadows the themes and structure of the Sonata in many ways. Hope that clarifies and thanks for watching! 😊
@@trocomposition4216 But the left hand of Beethoven's intro has not a descending scale (only 3 notes descending after which it goes up) and the first theme has not a descending scale either. I think it's not a good reference. I don't see the relation between the second theme and the Coriolan overture by Beethoven either. This is quite an original piece in the thematic sense, I don't see why you try to associate this with other music.
@@trocomposition4216 I had a bit of a hard time seeing the congruence between the descending scales and Beethoven's Pathétique Sonata. However, you did quite an awesome job with your analysis. I always thought this sonata more as a tryptich with the non repearing theme in the middle. Chopin does this in his Fantasie and somewhat left of center in the Polonaise Fantasie. Great job!
Zimerman?
The Liszt sonata is already some 60 years my favourite piano piece. But after this "explanation" I finally get why I cannot play it. Far too difficult.
My favourite interpretation is the version recorded by George Bolet
This is utterly astonishing; I would never have seen 99% of this without your video! One question: which score are you using here? It seems to reflect very closely Liszt's autograph (including fingerings), which most editions do not...
Really glad to hear you found it useful! 😊 Yes, it's the Neue Liszt-Ausgabe 👍 It's available on IMSLP and I'd also recommend Leslie Howard's very helpful summary of the situation re Liszt publications here: www.lisztsoc.org.uk/liszts-published-music
@@trocomposition4216 thank you! Really enjoyed your own interpretation as well as the technical analysis.
Why only 102 likes
Can i ask sir . What is the tempo , texture and form of this music ? This is my cousins assignment.
Hi. The tempo and texture vary throughout. In terms of texture, your cousin might benefit from watching this video/listening to the work and identifying which parts are primarily homophonic (melody + accompaniment), which parts more contrapuntal (multiple independent melodic lines), and which parts are monophonic (one line in unison/octaves). With regards form, whole books have been written on this subject! I take a narrative approach but I imagine an assignment would need to address the issue of double function form; I would recommend Kenneth Hamilton's Cambridge Handbook (details in the description), which has a great summary of the main formal interpretations in the literature. This will help guide your cousin's listening as they formulate their own approach to the piece. Good luck! 👍
The motifs are quite Wagnerian.
What kind of piano is this?
Hi! Zimerman plays a Steinway.
@@trocomposition4216what kind of piano is shown in starting of the video? I know it's Yamaha, but is it console or upright?
Zimerman's performance of this piece is HORRIBLE. You could have used Arrau's.
While this sonata is entertaining, it is by no means, not even close to being good enough to be a masterpiece.
Did you just admit that Liszt’s incoherent trash with no form is entertaining?
You are reading the notes that's fine all pieces are written by notes where is the music can you repeat just 2 bars wile you are taking a bath?one way hi way boring chromatic scales four fingers arpeggios this is an exercise not a musical piece
None of these motifs mean anything and all treatments of such are borne from delusion.
What a very ignorant statement.
@@aminx9297 no, it's just a non-religious one.