This is absolute gold, fantastic content, I've looked for a video like this for years. Thank you so much, exactly what I needed right now, trying to analyse a Bach minuet.
@@trocomposition4216 Thanks, one question, at 06:45 you said that you don't like using Roman numeral analysis very much to analyse pieces. I was wondering what your preferred way for harmonic analysis usually is and do you ever like to use Roman numeral analysis to analyse later classical pieces?
@@lukegregg5944 It's a personal thing but I prefer figured bass for Bach. The main issue for me is that roman numerals carry baggage around harmonic function and root movement that I find can cause confusion when the harmonic movement is primarily driven by voice leading. I do use roman numerals more for later works - it tends to end up a bit of an unscientific mash-up of Roman numerals and figured bass!
@@trocomposition4216 I could only starting understanding Bach’s music once I ditched all the Roman numerals and started noticing accidentals and schema. Thanks for this wonderful video. I have subscribed!
In the dance suites it is immensely engaging to see how Bach has treated the material motivically. I find it especially helpful in some of the partita, which I didn't "get" as intuitively as the French or English suites. The French Overture is my favorite of the partita (if one takes it as the 7th in the series, as Bach's forward suggests). It is simply amazing how integrated each dance is in motives and yet how melodic and fun each is!
Amazing both as an analysis of Bach's piece as well as a tutorial on composition. I've recently watched your videos on the contrapunctus from the art of the fugue and been mesmerized by your work. Please keep it up. I've also really liked how your piece came to sound. Congrats!
When a leap between chord tones becomes an "echo" (in "inverted augmentation") of a completely different leap that precedes it, you're not microdosing anymore.
Hi! Interesting observation. It certainly seems to be common to thicken the texture in the second part, in keeping with its more developmental and involved character, but it is not an essential element of the form, as far as I’m aware.
Thanks! Great suggestion. I have a couple of more Bach ones on the way first, but definitely plan to make similar videos for other composers. In the meantime, Nahre Sol has some fantastic 'How to Sound Like' videos on Beethoven and Chopin, which I highly recommend 👍
I'm curious as to why You do not notate the ornament in the upper voice near the end of the first half cadence (e , f#), as it seems to me to be part of the defining character of this piece.?
@@trocomposition4216 , Great video! You are inspiring me. I've been working on learning to write counterpoint like Bach for the last maybe 55 years. So far can do fairly OK with 2 part counterpoint with occasional 3rd or fourth parts, and Have written a few that are three part throughout, and one or two with four parts. When I can write 6 independent lines like Bach's Ricercar in 6 voices from the musical offering I will feel complete HAHAHAHAHA !!!!!
As soon as you start using anachronistic theory like functional harmony and chord inversions, you make it 10 times more difficult to write like Bach. Read some Heinichen, that will give you all the theoretical knowledge you need. And practice chorales. Do chorales for breakfast, lunch, and supper. For gallant movements like Gavotte, read a bit on the schemata.
Please explain your preference for lettered chords vs roman numerals and why you said Bach did not think in terms of roman numerals.. Is it because of the unsettled state of temperament?
Hi Longhaul Blue. Interesting question. Regarding the latter point, Bach's pedagogy was founded in figured bass rather than roman numerals (apparently some sources even quote C.P.E. as saying Rameau's approach, from which roman numeral analysis is derived, was the opposite of his father's). In terms of my own preference, I find that roman numerals can sometimes lead to confusion when harmonic events are driven by voice motion rather than root progression. But it's very much a personal thing; as I mention in a previous comment, I often end up with a rather unscientific mash-up of lots of different methods at the same time. Whatever helps understand what's going on in the music! 😊 👍
@@trocomposition4216 Thank you. I play jazz piano and lettered chords are the preferred notation although it seems to me roman numerals would be more useful since it allows one to transpose easily. I'm a big fan of Bach's music and of fugues in particular. I've tried writing them using non-standard key changes, trying to color them with modern harmonies, without much success. I think my problem stems from not having a harmonic structure to work within and instead letting my ear guide me. I'd love to hear some analysis on modern fugues, say, Shostakovich's, Hindemith's Ludus Tonalis, or even a short one like Ravel's from Le Tombeau. Thanks again.
@@longhaulblue1145100% agree about the importance of harmonic structure and control in fugue writing 👍 I love Shostakovich's Preludes and Fugues - they are definitely on the (ever-growing) 'videos to do' list!
It's a treat to see Bach's handiwork up close like this✨
This is absolute gold, fantastic content, I've looked for a video like this for years. Thank you so much, exactly what I needed right now, trying to analyse a Bach minuet.
Glad you found it useful! Good luck with the minuet 😊
@@trocomposition4216 Thanks, one question, at 06:45 you said that you don't like using Roman numeral analysis very much to analyse pieces. I was wondering what your preferred way for harmonic analysis usually is and do you ever like to use Roman numeral analysis to analyse later classical pieces?
@@lukegregg5944 It's a personal thing but I prefer figured bass for Bach. The main issue for me is that roman numerals carry baggage around harmonic function and root movement that I find can cause confusion when the harmonic movement is primarily driven by voice leading. I do use roman numerals more for later works - it tends to end up a bit of an unscientific mash-up of Roman numerals and figured bass!
@@trocomposition4216 thank you
@@trocomposition4216 I could only starting understanding Bach’s music once I ditched all the Roman numerals and started noticing accidentals and schema. Thanks for this wonderful video. I have subscribed!
One of the best and most underrated videos ever, here on UA-cam. This information is gold, dude. Greetings from Argentina.
Muchas gracias! Y saludes de Inglaterra 👍
In the dance suites it is immensely engaging to see how Bach has treated the material motivically. I find it especially helpful in some of the partita, which I didn't "get" as intuitively as the French or English suites. The French Overture is my favorite of the partita (if one takes it as the 7th in the series, as Bach's forward suggests). It is simply amazing how integrated each dance is in motives and yet how melodic and fun each is!
Thank you Tom for making & sharing this... Really cool, clear & enjoyable... Always appreciate different angles of viewing Bach... 🎶 🙂
Thanks! Really glad you enjoyed it 😊
Wow, I never thought of using a Bach piece as a layout for a new piece. I think I will use this technique and see how it turns out.
Great! I hope it helps. Definitely beats starting with the dreaded blank page...😉
I've created a few themes based on what Vivaldi does. Study each voice of a handful of pieces it helps me develop an inner ear.
I loved your explanation and examples of motivic integration and musical logic. Thank you for this terrific and insightful video. Subscribed.
Many thanks! ☺️
Great technique... I will try it this evening with an invention I am trying to write. Thanks a lot!
Thanks, Carlos! Good luck with the invention 👍😊
Amazing both as an analysis of Bach's piece as well as a tutorial on composition. I've recently watched your videos on the contrapunctus from the art of the fugue and been mesmerized by your work. Please keep it up. I've also really liked how your piece came to sound. Congrats!
Thanks, Ricardo! Appreciate the kind words 🙏😊
Excellent!
awesome bro keep them coming
Great video! I'd love to see more like this.
Thanks, Darren! Working on it 👍
wonderful work, thank you.
You're very welcome! Glad you found the video interesting 😊
Thanks a lot for this! I love it!
Thanks, Kasmuel! Glad you liked it 😊
Keep these videos coming man. You are great and it's unbelievable that you have so few subscribers at the minute
Thank you for the encouraging words! They are very much appreciated 👍
Fantastic !!!!!!
Thanks, Pierluigi! Glad you found it useful 😊
More pastiches please!! Great content :)
Thanks, Yahya! More to come 👍
@@trocomposition4216 I turned the bell on for your videos!
Nice job,.. ThanQ,..
I really want to try this now
Go for it! 😊 👍
Thank you!
You're very welcome, Wilson!
Nice
When a leap between chord tones becomes an "echo" (in "inverted augmentation") of a completely different leap that precedes it, you're not microdosing anymore.
😂😂
I notice the first section is in three parts and the second in four parts, is this also a common practice? Thanks, amazing material
Hi! Interesting observation. It certainly seems to be common to thicken the texture in the second part, in keeping with its more developmental and involved character, but it is not an essential element of the form, as far as I’m aware.
I am now realizing i do NOT know enough theory for this
same but honestly start anyways earlier you began playing around the more things make sense…
This is fantastic! I'd love to see a similar video of how to compose in the style of Beethoven or Chopin.
Thanks! Great suggestion. I have a couple of more Bach ones on the way first, but definitely plan to make similar videos for other composers. In the meantime, Nahre Sol has some fantastic 'How to Sound Like' videos on Beethoven and Chopin, which I highly recommend 👍
Just change mozart to minor and there you go
👏
I'm curious as to why You do not notate the ornament in the upper voice near the end of the first half cadence (e , f#), as it seems to me to be part of the defining character of this piece.?
Yes, good point. At the time, I didn’t want to clutter the presentation any further, but on reflection I think I probably would notate it 👍
@@trocomposition4216 , Great video! You are inspiring me. I've been working on learning to write counterpoint like Bach for the last maybe 55 years. So far can do fairly OK with 2 part counterpoint with occasional 3rd or fourth parts, and Have written a few that are three part throughout, and one or two with four parts. When I can write 6 independent lines like Bach's Ricercar in 6 voices from the musical offering I will feel complete HAHAHAHAHA !!!!!
i was wondering the same
Could u try to put a tutorial on how to compose like bach but in prelude edition?
Hi Charan. Good idea 👍 I will add it to the list!
As soon as you start using anachronistic theory like functional harmony and chord inversions, you make it 10 times more difficult to write like Bach. Read some Heinichen, that will give you all the theoretical knowledge you need. And practice chorales. Do chorales for breakfast, lunch, and supper. For gallant movements like Gavotte, read a bit on the schemata.
Agree
Another Prout reader!
Please explain your preference for lettered chords vs roman numerals and why you said Bach did not think in terms of roman numerals.. Is it because of the unsettled state of temperament?
Hi Longhaul Blue. Interesting question. Regarding the latter point, Bach's pedagogy was founded in figured bass rather than roman numerals (apparently some sources even quote C.P.E. as saying Rameau's approach, from which roman numeral analysis is derived, was the opposite of his father's). In terms of my own preference, I find that roman numerals can sometimes lead to confusion when harmonic events are driven by voice motion rather than root progression. But it's very much a personal thing; as I mention in a previous comment, I often end up with a rather unscientific mash-up of lots of different methods at the same time. Whatever helps understand what's going on in the music! 😊 👍
@@trocomposition4216 Thank you. I play jazz piano and lettered chords are the preferred notation although it seems to me roman numerals would be more useful since it allows one to transpose easily. I'm a big fan of Bach's music and of fugues in particular. I've tried writing them using non-standard key changes, trying to color them with modern harmonies, without much success. I think my problem stems from not having a harmonic structure to work within and instead letting my ear guide me. I'd love to hear some analysis on modern fugues, say, Shostakovich's, Hindemith's Ludus Tonalis, or even a short one like Ravel's from Le Tombeau. Thanks again.
@@longhaulblue1145100% agree about the importance of harmonic structure and control in fugue writing 👍 I love Shostakovich's Preludes and Fugues - they are definitely on the (ever-growing) 'videos to do' list!
I really dislike the extremely inaccurate modern method of describing modulation.
Hmmm.. no