It honestly felt like a cycle after awhile. Batman finds a way to defeat Superman, the Regime and the Resistance face off, Superman gets beaten, but just as Superman's on the brink of total defeat a deus ex happens that saves Superman, several main heroes die, Batman and the resistance retreat, rinse and repeat.
I think part of the reason Injustice worked at first was because of the 2 earths. In IJ1 you had the evil and gritty versions of these characters, but you also had the more classic and heroic versions of them to balance it out. Yellow Lantern Hal had Green Lantern Hal mocking him for turning to fear. Insurgent Batman had classic Batman arguing with him about being such an asshole. Regime Wonder Woman had classic Wonder Woman calling her out for being manipulative and warmongering. Regime Superman had classic Superman confront him over his actions and motivations. But after IJ1 we dont really get that again, we're stuck with just these cynical, jaded and evil versions of the characters
I'm completely okay with a Superman and characters acting out of character...as long as they're over there. In another universe. Could you imagine if those versions were the ones used as the foundation for an entire cinematic universe? That would be a nightmare! Ha ha!
@@Just_Some_Guy_with_a_Mustache I did see the Snyder cut and saw no clear indications of Injustice. Evil Superman is a common trope injustice didn't start it.
One thing I kind of hate about Injustice is that it further popularised the notion of an evil Superman which by now has been done to death and will continue to be overdone in the future. I'm at the point where I just only want real pure and hopeful Superman in outside media. The reason Superman works and why he is undeniably essential to the world of comics is because he represents the hope and goodness within all of us. In a universe filled with heroes with emotional baggage, Superman is an emotionally healthy hero who while still wrestles with his own demons, he still doesn't let those demons define him.
theyve been making good characters evil since the beginning of comics. injustice just gave it more of a spotlight but it’s something thats going to happen anyway
I think the next step for Injustice should be discovering a universe where Batman (like Superman) is pushed over a line, becomes corrupt, and becomes the villain. For some reason everyone loves tearing Superman down. I'd like to see that happen to Batman now. For example, Superman in injustice was "what if Supermans power went to his head?" What would be a batman equivalent? Maybe his no kill rule makes him permissive towards criminals?
@@Badmanpuntbaxter Good point. But I feel that's an exception. The Batman who laughs was a Batman that was infected and driven insane. Superman in injustice was pushed to the edge by circumstances but chose to do what was bad. Batman who laughs didn't have a choice.
I think the only batman equivalent would be if he like started really brutalizing criminals, to the brink of death, I'm talking permanent damage, comas, lifelong effects, all for petty crimes. I can't see batman compromising his moral code in any other way.
@@apersonwhomayormaynotexist9868 But that's exactly what Injustice does, though. It compromises and shatters Clark's moral code. In a Batman take, I could write Bruce losing his faith in the "No killing rule" every single encounter with the Joker until his "mysterious" death, and then Bruce becomes _either_ a political puppeteer mastermind in an universe that becomes more and more fascist, or his persona becomes a serial killer starts killing off every single criminal, no matter the gravity of crime (like those TikTok memes you've probably seen already). It would actually work nice as a mystery for the other Superheroes, like a Columbo episode.
My main problem with Injustice is everyobe just forgave Harley Quinn. She helped steal the nuke, she helped abduct lois, she helped with the surgery to implant the trigger, she helped drug superman. Metropolis being wiped off the map was her fault as well as the joker, millions of people dead. And the most Harley gets is a stern talking to and the drive to 'do better' Her body count laps Superman's serval times over, why isn't she in prison?
The same reason she was sent to an asylum. She’s mentally insane and being manipulated by the joker. If it was just the joker without Harley Quinn, the plan probably would’ve still happened. If it was just Harley Quinn without the joker it probably wouldn’tve. (of course she’s still largely to blame and should probably be in prison- but you asked a question and that’s as good an explanation I can come up with)
@@BananaWasTaken that makes absolutely no sense, and even less when you see how they treat Superman, BEFORE HE EVEN KILLS ANYONE EXCEPT JOKER. Harley kills 11 million random people, its fine! she was manipulated and feels really bad! Superman kills 1 mass murderer with a body count in the 10s of millions, THAT is unforgivable. Thats the problem with Injustice, no ones reactions to anything make sense in character, or for any rational person in the real world
It's probably more that Injustice has to have some time to figure things out since Kevin Conroy was the batman for injustice 1 and 2. MK12 was clearly rushed out instead of having a lot more time to be worked on since Netherrelm Studios had a system of MK then Injustice then MK
Sometimes I think this Injustice thing was made literally to appease cynical Batman fans and make Superman look bad. Also people sometimes forget that this was taking place in an alternate world which was Earth-22.
@@gibbs615 i may be biased cause i dont really like Batman or any of his villains, i like some of the Bat family like Dick or Barbara, but him and his villains have always felt like the "coughing baby vs hydrogen bomb" meme compared to most DC lol
@@Comuniity_ I feel ya cause there are some recent modern versions of Batman that I just don't like either cause they are not balanced like the old ones from the 90's and further back used to be.
My biggest problem with injustice is how extreme they take Batman's no killing rule just to create conflict in a ridiculous way. Joker nuked a city, killed millions, along with Clark's wife and unborn child, and laughed about. Then when Clark kills him despite being justifiably angry, distraught, with taunting from Joker. Or that time when the parademons invaded earth if Clarl didnt kill them all they would have lost and died but Bruce condemns him for the rest of the story. Labeling as being a lost cause. Bruce dosn't even try to console or say "sorry for your loss" until years later injustice 2 when its far to late for that. Even though Clark was responsible for all the deaths and damaged he did during his reign. If Bruce had just been a better friend in the beginning instead of being a close minded judemental asshole. He could have kept Clark from going down his dark path. When he pushed him away Clark had nobody to turn to but Diana who deep down always had a dictator, mindset.
I agree that is point of the story two extremes fighting each other and both sides are wrong with extreme black and white views Batman trust that all villains should be redeem and killing anyone who committed the worst deeds is redeemable while Superman believe that all criminals should be but to death what DC needs a is a true hero that does want to help the villains that can be fixed like Mr freeze but knows damn well some need to die like the joker this is why like the red hood ending a hero that is bridgeing the condontriction of Batman and Superman and breaking this repeating chain of agony
@agsdragon5475 yeah Red Hood in his ending put it best which is why he is the perfect kind of vigilante. Batman may be a vigilante in the eys of the law. But judging how closely he works jim gordon and the gcpd and his views on the prescution of criminals he may as well be deputized.
@@Tywil714 There is way more to the law than "working with the police". Batman breaks countless constitutional amendments, and most evidence would be thrown out. like bruh the real question is....Why does Batman have to kill somebody? Why is it his personal responsibility to kill Joker? Why does he have to be a murderer? Why should he shoulder the burden?
@@noirekuroraigami2270because in most iteratons batman creates the joker weather personally or figuratively, both sides of the same coin, if the batman didnt exist neither would the joker, and with the constant breaking out of arkham and him being assinine with not solving the problem once and for all, its like putting a bandaid on a festering gashing wound that you created and are like....yep this is someone elses problem
@@noirekuroraigami2270then why should he fight the joker? Why is he playing the joker game which involves thousands dead every time? If he's not gonna to stop the joker then he shouldn't be batman, whole injustice event is 100% batman fault
Thanks to Keeps for sponsoring this video! Head to keeps.com/COMICSTORIAN to get a special offer. I feel I ramble a bit more than usual in this one. I do apologize. Was going over in my head if I should give this one a third take instead of the 2 I did. But I think I get to the point I was making. The characters are out of character and now its being used as a clickbait marketing tactic.
Aw i like these commentary videos =[. You're someone who has extensive knowledge of comic books and has an intellectual and creative opinion to share. We actually agree with a lot of these ideas and one of the reasons why we have slowed down reading comics. Sure you rant on a bit, but that's something I've come to expect from you heh
I believe I can speak for most of the audience when I say: no apologies necessary. Since there's clearly the point that also could had been their own individual "The Problem With..." videos in that lead up, I think the summary was a necessary evil (even if you felt like it was an extra amount of rambling.) Anyone whose watched a "The Problem With..." video on the channel KNOWS by now that you always give the benefit of a doubt that this video might be watched by somone SUPER NEW to the channel. I would agree this feels like DC Comics is shooting themselves in the foot by messing around with the Injustice continutity. We all know the company wants the freedom to drop more games. Injustice was one of those fighting games where the voice talent and writing talent made the story mode accessible to people who do not enjoy the Fighting Games genre. (I was one of those people.) The majority of people I know that are heavily into competitive Fighting Games agree the game was nothing special which confirms the sales for that game were rooted in said story. You would think that the execs at DC Comics were aware of this truth and would not risk people pointing to the Comics as a reason to purchase future installments in the video game franchise. (This video dances around my current "The Problem With..." comics issue: DC Comics and Marvel aren't interested in creating new characters when they can just keep giving younger characters identical power sets to fan favorite characters. Jon Kent was a neat concept as a pre-teen character but as an adult he's just competing for space with Superman. With Miles in 616, what's the point of adding Spider-Boy to the mix? The worlds are starting to feel hollow with all stories taking place in two or three cities and some how everyone is there and somehow every famous hero has two or more counterparts to them with similar power sets and similar names. We've moved away from original content to soap opera territory where we have to have the same small cast do the same things over and over again.)
People need to seriously stop making lois the only reason he becomes evil. Not only is it overplayed, but it also makes Superman look selfish and shallow. Superman knows how to morn and grief in a healthy way. There's even a comic where manchester black makes a illusion where lois is dead and metropolis is gone and you know what he does... he doesn't kill Manchester cause it isn't what Lois would've wanted. He's sad, of course he is, but he doesn't cross that line cause it's not who he is.
Damn, it would be so cool if John Kent became the Xeno Future Trunks of DC, going around and fixing flawed timelines like Injustice, mostly to make sure his Dad has a happy timeline in every timeline.
@@ryohhibikithe9thhokage532 So John Kent is the multiverse's white blood cell that goes around and fixes things as opposed to Superboy Prime acting as a virus and destroying everything.
One of my problem with Injustice 2 as a whole is how they underutilized the titans. In the Injustice 1 video game it was revealed from Cyborg and Raven that most of the titans died in metropolis, but when we got the Year 3 tie in story about what really happened to the titans, only Kid Flash (Bart Allen) and Beast Boy were the only ones who died during the explosion, while the rest, Red Robin, Starfire, Superboy, and Wonder Girl were trapped in the phantom zone, and they weren’t rescued until Injustice 2 comic by Batman and his team. And then after their battle with Amazo and Starro, they were just thrown into the wayside. I feel like the titans should have a bigger role after they were freed. For Conner, you could have had him trying to fix all the damage Kal-El has done such as rebuilding people’s trust . And when it comes Kara and Kal, you could have it where Kara doesn’t trust Kon at first and sides with Kal, and show Kal manipulating her but once she finds out the truth about the situation, she then sides with Kon and tries to restore the Superman legacy. For Cassie, they could have shown more of her and Diana’s relationship, and seeing how Diana wasn’t the person she looked up to, Cassie decided to make the Wonder Woman legacy as it should be like in the main continuity. For Kori, they could have her reuniting with Victor, telling him what happened, and have her calling him out about the decision Vic made and chose to do, while their relationship starts to get rocky, Kori was managed to get Victor to see the error of his ways. You could have her confront Damian about the death of Dick and the path he chose to. And had Tim not died because of General Zod, I could see him bringing Batman out of his darkness and try to help restore the dynamic duo, while also confronting Superman, Cyborg, and Damian.
@@brandonfj5811 I’m not sure about Raven, since we’re never told what happened to her after the first injustice game. So it really depends, but I can see Kori, Victor and Cassie trying to get to her and helping her heal from her father’s defeat.
It blew my mind that Roy hasn't been in Injustice at ALL. Green Arrow's death was a big deal, but Tom King can't even be arsed to show Ollie's first protégé's reaction? We got all four Robins, even if they're terribly written, but none of the Arrow kids except Connor?
@@sephlock4767 To sum it up, In year 3, John Constantine made a deal with Trigon to find Superman and find Raven. John and Bruce was taking Raven, Flash, Cyborg and Robin hostage, but Superman and his team managed to find to find thanks to Mr.Mxypliz, John summoned Trigon and then Mx and Trigon started fighting each other which was starting to destroy reality. To stop that from happening, Doctor Fate and Shazam combined their powers to send both of them to a void where they could never come back.
The reason I like "The Problem With..." series is because I can listen to it without having to pay attention to the fine details of things. Don't get me wrong I appreciate and enjoy the editing, however I was listening to this while I am working and it is a different feeling from the comic book stories that you do!
The problem was not a bad superman, the problem was that the people was more attracted to superman's ideas than Batman's. So they weren't able to create a story where the villain wins. The worst year was the one with all the greek gods
I was always waiting for them to explain the Superman never recovered from the kryptonite joker gas and give him an excuse for his behavior. Of course I was really hoping that they were going to finish the Batman who laughs story not overpower or outsmart him, but turn him sane you watch Bruce Wayne get destroyed by his own guilt
There is one issue of the injustice universe you forgot, He-Man and The Masters of the Universe Vs Injustice. Which if you look at it, it can be considered Injustice 3 due to Superman's ending from Injustice 2. Btw I would love to see you and Rob have a debate again about this six issue limited series and the possiblity of a set to Injustice 3 with this. And having Val-zod and Lois Tornado try to help the injustice universe.
Thank you. Somone remembered this. Weird Benny didn't mention this. It would REALLY strengthen his argument about the inconsistency that needs to let the story end.
@@flashergoldpower15 oh yeah Superman definitely felt the strength of the most powerful man of the universe. And then the wizard Shazam gave him an additional boost of power combined with his own.
I enjoy injustice at times, it can be kinda depressing to see such perverse versions of beloved characters tho. You kind of just have'ta suspend your disbelief about how unlike themselves they act at times
@@concept5631 that homicidal clown kept getting crazier and more ruthless because batman isn't willing to kill him nor leave him alone, batman made joker obsessed with crimes
@@ZrankHednlike bow batman can prepare for all his team becoming evil but Didn't have a plan to protect lois and his God child while never attempting to permanently put down joker the right way
My problem with Injustice is that Superman, the guy who threatened the Joker and told him that he just "generally doesn't kill people" but might make an exception for the Joker *AND* basically traumatized the Joker somehow turns evil once he actually kills the Joker The whole thing is just "what if we apply Batman's bs moral rules to Superman"
I would get the point of the complaint superman is "out of character" if this was the main universe. But injustice is ultimately just another elseworlds story, it is allowed to be flexible to wild extents because this isnt the "actual superman". Plus the thing i think people often lapse is that this wasnt lex, or zod who put superman on this path, it was the Joker. The point of the joker is how he can drag almost anyone down to his level with his "all it takes is one bad day" philosophy, or to quote the Dark Knight "you either die a hero or live long enough to see yourself become the villain." And what we are experiencing with those 5 years is the long enough part. Now even though i do enjoy everything that came after, I do agree that there is a problem with DC is "milking" it with Injustice 2 and the recent Jon Kent comic.
I mean, yeah, wasn't that the whole point of Wonder Woman story, where she kills that Nazi spy, to show that their characters are vastly different and heroes were prone to different behaviour even in their past in that universe? That's how I see it
See that's what I was thinking, surely half the point of making a multiverse and multiversal story is specifically so you can have characters act out of character...people goin "wah Superman out of character" seem to be absolutely determined to miss that point, I mean come on in the game an accurate version of Superman even comes to save the day like...the fuck do you people want? 😂 Also in a world where The Batman Who Laughs not only exists in the main continuity but was a roaring success, Injustice Superman, for me at least, is nowhere near as egregious.
@@cptsteele91being a different continuity is fine and dandy. Seeing a skin walking Superman wearing the same colors and melting a child’s brain is too much and indulgent for writers who never left their edge lord phase
@@d04lvallier As a big GL fan this also threw me for a loop to, but as a bigger fan of the lantern mythos it does make sense when you take a step back. Hal was initially warry of Sinestro wanting to join superman's side, but Sinestro himself wasnt always bad and wanted to maintain "order" because of the dotting nature of the guardians. Plus like superman, Hal gave into his grief and fear when he lost John without knowing that Sinestro was manipulating him, he threw logic out of the window.
I remember Injustice Harley Quinn appaered in Last years Harley Quinn multiverse storyline (issue 22-27) , and they did nothing with it. She didn't even make sense to be there, she didn't do anything. So I agree with you in this video.
This felt like a mandate. A good idea would've been him going after injustice 2, without supes the regime are still in charge. He actually has a better heart to heart with batman and the 4 sons he lost, and he goes to se Clark in the phantom zone. It would reinforce that there are lines superheroes shouldn't cross which is what started this whole run.
Some of the motivations of the characters just puts me of Injustice .. Some hero’s go from Hero to flat out Evil of any inconvenience it seems .. I was never crazy about The Joker being the one to break Superman either & Batman V Superman is a bit played out in my opinion
I remember jumping at phone every time a new issue for year one and two dropped. It made me cry, angry,cheer..it made me want more. I wish more modern comics would hit me as hard as this did.
Injustice 2 had fun interactions. I liked listening to Jay Garrick. As for comic books, Idk. I do think that rock Dick fell on with his head was so random.
I just wanted to throw out there that Injustice got me looking at DC after being "over-Marveled". I really REALLY enjoyed the story, and when I found out there was a comic I tried it out. First comic I ever read. I literally sat there after the first issue and said "Oooooohhhhhhh... THIS is why people obsess over comics!"
Injustice 2 and injustice 1 feel so disconnected like how is everyone gonna return to normal and act like friends after a dictatorship and parallel universe
The problem I had with the series was that there was no ending... you needed to play the video game to see the ending. I never played the game and have no intention of playing the game but for stories like this that exist outside continuity, I like them to have an ending. I want a complete story with a beginning and an end. I never read year 5, I stopped when I found out it wouldn't have a proper ending. There was some great story telling in year 1-3 though. It was a shame that it never had a proper ending.
Well, MotU vs Injustice pretty much ends the series... Which ofc we know how corporate greed works, they will find a half ass way to circumvent it, such as completley ignoring that they did publish it.
I will tell you the problems with Injustice 1)Batman The series keeps riding him like he is this true hero and moral compass. But he isnt. He isnt half the man he is in most universes. He was always cold to Damian as a CHILD,he lacks all the touching moments comic Batman had with his son.Its also implied he was abusive cause Damian felt the need to take a super pill to merely visit his father and when Batman started getting close to him Damian said basically said "Not again".This is DISGUSTING No shit Damian lost his mind and killed Nightwing,he spent 10 years brutalised by Talia and Ras and then he has to live with this psycho. Even other heroes comment on his bad personality He turned a blind eye to Harley Quinn killing a man in the Injustice 2 trailer,despite hurting other people for doing the same,what a pathetic simp. 2)Damian I dont blame him for hating Bruce,he deserves it. But Damian isnt the character that would suck up to Superman like that or anyone for that matter,its completely against his personality. Another thing is his physical appearance,he isnt Nightwings son so why does he look like his clone? Whenever we see Damian in the future in comics he is reasonably well built and over 6 foot,in some futures he ends up BIGGER than Bruce. The other thing is that Damian isnt supposed to be weak and incompetent,even current 14 year old Damian in the comics is far more skilled than Injustice Damian.He should be imposing and dangerous but they made him a joke In the comics Damian growing up is treated like a future apocalyptic event if he becomes a bad guy,he is supposed to have the potential to surpass Batman and Nightwing. But in Injustice him getting his ass beat is a running gag 3)Wonder Woman Whats the point of having darker versions of the characters when they are so different they basically a different character. This character isnt an interesting twist to Diana,she is just someone else entirely. 4)Superman Where the shit do i even begin with this guy? The series cant decide if he is this complex tragic character or pure evil character. Killing Shazam?Hiring Zsazz to kill Alfred?Breaking a boys arm?Attacking his alternate universe son?
Damien and Bruce were antagonistic towards one another specifically after he took superman side and killed Nightwing Bruce was a lot of things abusive however no he wasn't in one issue of the story Batman before the relationship turned sour told Damian he was proud of him right after Damian had completed a mission Specifically what issue or year are you referring to because I don't remember this Damian is the way he is because he's a natural born asshole who really doesn't give shit about people unless they enabled his bullshit Nightwing and Alfred cuddle him how did he repay them he had intent to violently hurt Nightwing which resulted in his death and when superman murdered Alfred he still sided with him threw Alfred in the pit not caring about the after effects .. Also if Bruce was as abusive as you claim Nightwing or Alfred would have done something about it especially Alfred they wouldn't let it happen Damian shows no fear towards Bruce at all during injustice in fact he actively antagonistic towards Bruce constantly egging him on in a fight abuse victims don't do that to their abusers Bruce at best is an emotional distant parent for one he's emotionally stunted two him and Damien are practically strangers Also injustice 2 trailer your referring to earlier in the comics green arrow found Harley Bruce was either busy finding the president or dealing with superman so it's not like he turned a blind eye to what she was doing injustice 2 Harley kills no one at all she's against it as much as Bruce is Other characters who commit on his personality who are regime members
I agree on all that big time! Batman was always nothing but an arrogant closed off vigilante dickhead who is never very understanding about anything or to anyone.
Batman is for sure an ass. Nightwing and alfred put up with it because they know him like no one else does. But my issue with him is how morally uptight he is to a fault. Superman killed the man who took away his wife and kid and Batman condemns the killing of joker. Batman didnt have to agree but to understand why because Superman needed a friend.
@@HectorPryorYT actually Batman literally tells Superman twice too his face if the roles were reversed he would have killed the joker Batman literally didn't give a shit that Superman murder the joker his only real issue is where Superman was going from there Batman really wasn't uptight about joker death if he was he would have immediately condemned superman right after he murdered the joker but he didn't The only time he really started too chastise superman for killing is when he started actually murdering people like green arrow
@@HectorPryorYT what superman need was to be told to stop which he was told too by Batman but superman immediate response was to yell and scream in his face what superman need was to learn he can't play judge jury and executioner which Batman told him superman main flaw is he can't hear past his own height if he had simply listen to Batman injustice wouldn't have happened Also superman never chooses actual genuine help he himself refuses to acknowledge his own trauma and issues he never wanted help Batman not obligated to help someone who doesn't even wanna help himself
I can actually buy the whole "justice league goes evil" story, given that it's an alternate universe and they can give reasons for why these popular superheroes would act so out of character, but the problem with injustice is that they never quite do explain it. They pretty much just rotate in a cycle from one spectacle to another, never giving the story a moment to breathe and that is a big problem. As much as I love the story for its plot and themes, it has a lot of continuity errors and jarring plot holes that were never addressed (Batman never even considering what happened to Tim).
Honestly I think what John said to Superman did get through to him to some extent. And injustice 2 there's a interaction between Superman and cyborg when you have them fight each other that has Superman asking if they've gone too far.
I hate that Nightwing dies and Batman then says "You are dead to me Damian" when there were bigger reasons before and after that should of made Batman lose faith in Damien. But yes the story itself is a mix of highs and lows, but Damien I feel really shouldn't of been in Injustice, that way it would be more emotional once Nightwing died from a "real tragic way of going" that would cause Batman to border on the line, for example if Superman lobotomized Nightwing in front of Batman while he could do nothing, instead of killing Billy "The Shazam Man" -Jack
Then again, I have bad ideas and barely any ideas besides a scene. That is why I am not able to make any comic stories of my own, I just don't have the creativity and skill for making a actual good story, all I do is make a derivative story with stolen property, so I could never make a comic because I would just ruin it more and more each time I write more to it. I always ruin my stories by adding more and more to it, instead of a plot that starts and ends properly. -Jack
@@lucaslongolucasksenha7827 Jason is the "Evil Batman" who works for the League of Shadows from the Injustice 2 tie-in comics (which you can find on Comicstorian). I don't remember if he made it into Injustice 2 proper.
Yeah! Batman hates Damian because he kill Richard Grayson. Heck, even Starfire hates Damian. Damian was raised by The League of Assassins. Nightwing is the better son of Batman than Damian Al Ghul.
I feel they won’t quit working on injustice because injustice has become such a huge hit in the pro fighting game tournaments and the game sells very well to the point where they don’t care about comics or continuity really.
The games could have been a Dark Knights Return fighter, or a Kingdom Come Fighter game which would have made sense. Or doing something with the Crime Syndicate.
@@Bruce_Wayne841If I had to guess it's the idea it feels like her Joker issues excuse helping him break Superman by drugging him into killing his wife and unborn child with everyone but the bad guys feeling that's good enough to redeem her. Maybe because the games didn't show how she earned that redemption.
I do as well. I feel like when writers get to put characters in these elseworlds situations they can be much more creative with how they write certain characters cus they don’t have to worry about messing up the main canon or anything like that. Elseworlds/alternate reality stories are some of my favorite comics
Thank you! Had this very conversation, not as detailed and thorough; however, it stemmed from me shifting my rankings on IP characters I like...I moved Lex up and it spawned this type convo. GoodShit!!
I dislike Injustice mainly for it's effect on popular media. Superman is my favorite fictional character of all time. And I feel like ever since Injustice came out we have way to many evil Superman in popular media. Man of Steel came out in 2013 and I thought it was just okay. Then you have BvS and again just okay. In each of these iterations Superman is not himself. Then you have The Boys with an evil Superman, Invincible with and evil Superman, Brightburn with an evil Superboy, and to an extent Ikaris of MCU fame, and the new Suicide Squad game has en "evil" Superman. Finally as mentioned above Snyderverse Superman is edgy, dark and broody. It just gets so tiring. Which is why I was so happy we have Superman and Lois' Superman while flawed is a huge step up. All Might is another example of a Superman character done right.
Most of those characters you listed arent superman. Having superman powers is not the same thing as being superman. Throughout the same length of time you mentioned there have been many of "up beat and upright" superman stories, it's just that you have only focused on these ones.
@@darryljack6612I think he means there based off him but even with that being said he still wrong since Invincible and the Boys comics came out before Injustice. Brightbrun is a valid complaint and Ikruis has always been a butt hole comics or otherwise. The real issue is when people start believing Injustice Superman is actually THE Superman and not an else world version its like calling Kimgdom comes Batman the prime version of Batman.
My problem is DC's obsession with it. Did we really need an animated movie that unnaturally scrunched five years of comics, two crossovers, an interquel, and a prequel?
No offense, but it seems really myopic to fixate on only the Injustice line of books, when all of Marvel and DC is guilty of never resolving plots or allowing for permanent change. This one of the main strengths of manga-- characters age and die. Characters grow. And they don't go back. There's no "resetting" the universe, and most villains die/disappear when defeated. You don't fight Joker a million times; you kill Cell, you kill Buu. Also, Goku ages and stays aged. There's just one timeline and we stick to it. Marvel and DC just keep resetting and recycling everything again and again. Take Batman, for instance. His story SHOULD be: Year 1, Joker + other costumed supervillains, the inmates escape Arkham and so he has to beat them again w/ the help of Robin and associates, Bane shows up and temporarily ends his career, Batman's disciples take over, The Dark Knight returns, Bruce mentors Terry to be the new Batman. The end. Green Lanterns? Only one rep from Earth (or that entire "space sector" that contains Earth) should ever exist at any one time. The only exception would be when Kyle is corrupted by the Parallax, which forces the selection of a new Lantern. DC storylines never make any sense-- especially when they sell well. That just motivates the creators to keep things going, make things bigger, and make thigns more and more nonsensical.
22:30 Injustice 3 was never going to be announced at EVO. NetherRealm, the developers of the Injustice games, are busy with finishing and promoting Mortal Kombat 1. They never promoted two games at the same time in the past, even if one game has released and is currently in its DLC phase. They always let one game's life cycle end before promoting the next one. This must have been a theory amongst the comic book community because no one in the fighting game community was talking about this.
Injustice 3 was scrapped because James Gunn wants to unify all media's from gaming, comics, cartoons to movies. Thus Mortal Kombat 1 was reskinned over what Injustice 3 was going to be. A sidekick based fighting game. Only now, they've changed sidekicks to kameos and used Mortal Kombat instead.
@homoxide1 James Gunn was pulling string well before he got hired. Soon after Suicide Squad 2, he had his hands in DC. During GOTG release, he was thick into behind the scenes DC, which is how we got where we were 5 months ago. How do you think he had a 10-year DCU plan ready 5 months ago when he announced God's And Monsters? (Or whatever he called the era) hiw else you think Flash, Aquaman 2, Shazam 2 and Blue Beetle movies have been influenced because of James Gunn and those movies had many re-shoots when a majority of those movies was done and ready to go. Anywho, back to the point, and I hope you read up to this point. That's why I said MK1 is Injustice 3 reskinned. They already knew the direction they wanted to go with MK story. They just didn't expect to have kameos until last minute and that's why kameo characters won't have a big part in the story mode although MK1 main mechanic the game is built around is "Sidekicks" now "kameos".
Personally for me my problem with injustice is that well it ran way to long and DC should just let it go and not keep bringing it back but for some reason DC wants to keep this universe going to which I say why, what is the point because after injustice 2 there's no place else to go and it feels to me that batman ending to injustice 2 feels like the canon ending to the lore and ends the story of injustice as a whole at least in my opinion. Also I agree the Jon kent situation with injustice just felt like a complete waste of time and proves my point that i was right from the very beginning and DC should stop and listen for once and just pull the plug of teenage jon kent and just gives us back the real Jonathan Samuel Kent superboy as his little 10 year old self, because not letting this jon kent we have now stay in the injustice universe to help fix that world and putting him back in the main universe again proves my point that he's redundant and obsolete. Which is just sad and depressing when you think about it because the Jonathan Samuel Kent superboy as his little 10 year old self i knew and liked had so much potential to keep on going and to not capitalize on any of his potential to not do anything with him just to keep him aged up, just seems like desperate and just stupid on so many levels it ain't even funny but just sad and depressing at least in my opinion. Now with all that said though as for injustice as a whole i agree at this point DC should just stop with injustice and let it go because keeping it going as it's now just seems lazy and a complete waste of time and just complicates the universe so much that I don't think people are going to care about injustice as a brand if it keeps on going forever and people will get tired of it and move on from it at least that's just my opinion on that situation as a whole. With all that said though great video on the problem with injustice as a whole and I hope you have a great day today benny. :)
Great video keep it up. I truly feel like Injustice comics are enjoyable as long as you treat them as their own universe and not the main universe. I personally believe they're saving some kind of redemption arc for Superman for Injustice 3. Yes the comic sell like gangbusters but the games hold more weight. I've been in favor of a Blackest Night style Injustice 3 where Black Lantern Lois Lane haunts him but that's entirely me.
The problem with Injustice is the DCU is filled with superhuman denizens who would tell Kal El to kick rocks. First among them, contrary to the story, would be WW.
Injustice year 1-5 was amazing. No complaints . The problem was that it ended . Superman in jail end of story . Injustice 2 - major antagonist Braniac. Does that get anyone overly excited ? Injustice 3- Who will the next antagonist be?. Also the caveat to injustice was always the moral dilemma of unAlive criminals for the greater good. This is really what the war was about so anything that can prolong the war means more injustice.
Going all in on the Homelander style? No please not... Homelander is just aa broken child in a grown body. Broken Superman is different. The coin flipped from love to hate. A foil to the original Superman. Injustice Superman shouldn't be crying for his mommy... .... .... Ok maybe... in a really dramatic way. But not like mommyboy Homelander.
Hey just curious if you would ever do a dramatized video of coheed and Cambria armory wars. There is a lot of good story and I love listening to your stuff while I work. Think you are a great fit.
I feel the success of Injustice was both comic and videogame, was the beginning of the "what if Superman was evil" trend. Which I find odd, because you've had evil Supermen before like Ultraman. Yet they never set off that trend like Injustice Superman.
Injustice's very concept as a dark 'subversion' of its superheroes is a flawed premise in of itself. Superman is not just a symbol of righteousness, but a hero who stands in the face of justice and heroism no matter the cost. He inspires both the other characters and the reader with his naive, but optimistic outlook on the world. Having a Superman that not only murders the Joker out of anher, and then proceed to enfore a police state on the world is so far removed from what Superman represents that it no longer feels like the character has fallen, and more like this is some fake version of him straight out of a fanfic. And you know what, _it is._ Injustice is just another fan creation, one that was set up purely for the sake of subversion, created on the sole intent of taking a beloved character and perverting their very nature. This storyline was set up to fail at the very beginning.
9:23 I'd argue thats a NRS problem- all their stories involve mulitverse or time travel. I mean, MK11 is bacially IJ when it comes to other versions helping modern versiosn
Because pre-Joker's death everyone was presented as if they were very similar to whatever was the base line for the prime DC universe. The sudden change to like half of the characters made no sense. You mean to tell me that half of the superhero community was willing to be okay with a sudden dictatorship after presumably fighting it for however long it may have been for that universe? The difference between this and Red Son is that Red Son makes very clear that Superman had a very different origin and his beliefs made sense for how he grew up. Injustice Superman clearly grew up as a human being raised by Jonathan and Martha Kent, with presumed years of inspiring many other heroes.
@JogVodka your exact words "very similar", that means they're not completely the same. So when they do change up, it's ok because they weren't 1 to 1 copies to begin with. Plus, dude, if they were the 1 to 1 copies of our canonical characters, we wouldn't even have the game to begin with. They need to change and think differently than the characters they normally are. The death of the Joker happens 5 years before the game starts, within those 5 years, a lot can and will happen. So will some of them say no, of course, but most probably wouldn't because it's Superman. Also if you wanna say they were easily swayed to follow his lead, look up the justice lords and watch the justice league series and tell me how unlike the characters they are because they all switched the moment they saw supes kill lex as president. They didn't need 5 years to turn their morales off
The thing about injustice is that the writers are like Batman can fight against Superman he can stand up to him with the pills that grant him super strength but no that’s not how it would go if Clark let go of his humanity if he truly is as gone as the story says he is then why don’t he just straight up kill him bruce said it himself that if Clark did fully go bad there is no one that can stop him with plans or not
Im sorry i love Harley and her redemption ark to a hero in most comics. But this one felt eh lmao. She help the joker kidnap lois, drug superman, trick him into killing her while also nuking an entire city at the same time. I dont really see how she got away with it
The point of Harley's character is that she easily emotionally manipulated by the Joker, because if I recall correctly did anyone see Harley's face and that one panel with the Joker when they we're watching Superman lift Doomsday (Lois Lane-Kent) into the sky?
@@AnonymousEnigma19that doesn't mean she should be resolved of all her punishment. She should still be held accountable for her actions and the fact that no one did that is terrible.
@@UnlimitedIvory what do you think she's been trying to do? Throughout the story she's been fighting like HE🏒🏒 to make up for everything she done while under the Joker's influence, what do you want her to do? Offer Up her daughter to Superman as a sacrifice?
@AnonymousEnigma19 No, I want her to be put in prison in then whatever happens, happens. I mean, Killer Croc isn't that bad compared to her, but he got locked away. Treat her the same as everyone else.
@@UnlimitedIvory and that's why she's not, because Batman and the other heroes from the resistance would know that if they did that she would be as good as dead, because instead prison would be people who would have a beef with Joker first starting all this chaos and they would take it out on Harley, and that would be blood on their hands.
What do ya want, a reboot of it, LOL?.? Just when you think the continuity is established, SomeThing gets RetConned, just so they can make a change WithOut yet another burntout multiversal event.
@@UnlimitedIvory kinda yeah. Dude sounds like a child complaining that something “exists,” just because they don’t like it. That’s what a 14 year old would say.
Imagine instead of getting Injustice 3 (at least yet) we got an MK v Injustice. MK1 looks amazing and is a new universe. Plus MK vs DCU had some gems in it and could be done better.
I don't know what a better title would be, but I enjoy this series. It's good to look at something you love and point out the flaws and hope for better in the future.
Injustice is just a Superman hit piece . It did nothing but further destroy his brand. People don’t see him as the beacon of hope anymore now he’s just one loss away from becoming alien Hitler.
Agreed People are So Ignorant That they Believe This Superman Is the Cannon one I hope Superman Legacy Shows Who Superman truly Is A Beacon of Hope not some Batmanfied Edgelord
What I loved most about Injustice, it brought back George Newbern, Kevin Conroy, and Susan Eisenberg together as the trinity. I prefer George over Tim. Yeah it sucks he was evil, but that's why the final level is my favorite.
Injustice felt simplistic to me. I’ve said this before but I’ve came up with some fixes like having the regime be built on more ideological principles rather than what we got. Batman for instance would be more narcissistic who whenever asked for reform never gives a direct answer. Why I did this was that simply appealing for a better way without any practicality is idealism. A prompt was that the injustice world would be like the fall of the Roman republic and form of the Roman Empire.
The first injustice game and the comics leading up to it were great, the second game (despite the retcons) was also good. Everthing else was unnecessary and forced, they need to stop milking it.
The main problem with injustice is how bias it is! They could’ve made a story where both sides aren’t evil and just want to save the world differently. Who is gonna cry for Joker when Superman killed him? Who’s gonna cry for the dictators Superman killed or any of the other villains? Like Benny said, they had to escalate him to even cartoonish level of evil that the game is twisting your arm to hate Superman! Then injustice 2 happened, at the end where the two factions are wondering what to do with brainiac, Batman STILL defends not killing him despite knowing that Cyborg can bring the cities back! He’d rather risk keeping brainiac alive to save the cities, even tho there’s a chance he’d just destroy them all. Then of course the best question of all “How many innocent lives is it gonna take before you realize that some lives have to be taken!?” and what was batman’s answer? The same answer he gave when Damien asked him “So you’re fine with crippling them but taking their lives is too far?” Nothing! This is Batman at his most obnoxious cause he never questions if he’s wrong. People keep saying “Why don’t they talk? If talk then Superman will change” well, why does Superman have to change and not Batman? Well because the story is forcing us to believe that Batman is objectively right. The problem comes when you see the Gotham is under batman’s watch! Yeah, Jon you heard nothing while flying around and I’m sure there are people who like that. Ya think Gotham loves the quiet and not the constant sounds of explosions and death because of batman’s rouges gallery? It’s just a Batman suck fest with no character development for him despite it being an alternate universe! You can have this Batman question if his no kill rule was wrong but no, more stagnate BS! That’s the problem with Batman in a nutshell, he’s stagnate! He’s been the same character for for years with nothing new. They give him his biological son and how does Batman change? He doesn’t but Damien has to change to suit Batman’s code because Batman is perfect and so Mary Sue.
I feel like both Batman and Superman in Injustice is wrong, Batman for being so against Superman, and Superman for killing people even for the smallest inconvenience, in fact, the dream Superman had about Batman killing Joker for Superman and Superman than hugging him is more in character for the both of them
@@GunthersLoyalSoldier1307actually the reason he didn't wanna have cyborg do it is because he doesn't trust cyborg is literally siding with a mass murdering tyrannical dictator you cannot expect Bruce to trust cyborg in some ladder endings they find ways to free those trapped cities even without branic involvement Also the story doesn't state Batman objectively right in fact the story specifically states he'd just as wrong as Superman is he gets called out for not dealing with the joker properly years ago he gets called out for not exactly being a good friend too superman emotionally in his time of need The story is not at one point ever stating Bruce is right in fact the story even exposes how flawed his whole no kill rule is Joker : you let me live and look what happened Batman: that's on you not me Joker : keep telling yourself that In year one superman even tells Batman by not killing the joker he's just as guilty as him so where exactly does injustice push the narrative he's objectively right
@@waterpillar1977 Ladder endings aren’t canon and Batman does instead on using brainiac to bring the cities back. Batman is a damn fool if he think Brainiac will bring the cites back. Tell me what happens in injustice 2’s ending, Batman stops Superman and everything is fine while Superman’s ending has him brainwashing people. If that doesn’t tell you that the game is making Batman the one in the right then I don’t know what. Even when he’s called out, he’s always put in the right! The good ending is Batman route while the evil ending is superman’s. You can see in the games, comics and even if ANY case where Batman is called out for his no kill rule, he doesn’t even question being possible wrong about his ideals. Hell, even tho Harley had a hand in all this happening in the first place, Batman makes her his sidekick and she faces NO consequences! Supergirl even saves her from WW! Even when she finds out it was because of Harley and joker, she still sides against her cousin!
@@GunthersLoyalSoldier1307 that's because Superman is the antagonist and the final villain and a literally mass murdering tyrannical dictator so let me get this straight your main compliment is that Superman bad ending is bad while Batman good that's your main argument that's laughable in it's entirety the entire point injustice which you clearly miss is never making Batman right in fact Batman ending is more about hope and building a better future which is emphasize through supergirl more so then Batman Injustice doesn't treat Batman as objectively right he's just as flawed as Superman throughout the entire story of injustice he's criticized throughout the entirety of injustice games comics So to make sure I get your point Batman having a better hopeful ending is the game objectively making him right despite him getting criticized and called throughout the game and the entire franchise u hope you realize how stupid your argument is right? If the game was truly trying to make him objectively he wouldn't be getting called out left and fucking right . Two I brought up the ladder endings because it shows possibilities of what they CAN do Batman didn't want Braniac killed because he felt he was still useful Batman could find a way to force him to do it anyway Batman flat out agrees with Superman that he is guilty of joker crimes when asked does he feel guilty for letting people die by joker hands he felt out States every time He's never at one point treated right Batman knows his no kill rule is flawed if he didn't his response to superman would not be I feel guilty The Kent's call him out pa Kent has him apologizing to superman for not properly being there Batman doesn't make her his sidekick he keeps a close eye on her but he isn't buddy buddy with her he didn't recruit green arrow did working with someone doesn't mean you like that person . Superman is a literal Mass murdering tyrannical dictator who turned his back on everything he stood far the house of el stood far no wonder kara wasn't going stand by him .. Batman is constantly getting shit on for either being a bad friend terrible father or for letting joker live which started this shit show.. Batman is treated as the lesser evil between him and Superman the story constantly points out that his methods are flawed and don't really work in the long terms if the story was really treating Batman as objectively right characters wouldn't be calling him he wouldn't even acknowledged how he fucks up serval times etc
The whole bullshit argument that Superman doesn't act like Superman is so lame. It's the Multiverse. In one he's a Nazi. People need to get off the cool-aid.
My problem with Injustice is with it the comics, it have some moments are decanonized in the main games (Crane’s Death in the 1st comic, Alfred death, Nightwing death okay that’s one dumb in the comic actually) Zsaz is killed by Damian in the Arkham Asylum in Year one and in comics he is killed by Damian now Nightwing in Year 4 after Zsaz killed Alfred
I still like Injustice. What I liked when it started off was an interesting look as Superman steadily going into his evil decline. But then as it went on, it definitely started feeling more like Batman wank. And I like Batman, he's one kf my favourite superheroes. Like what actually once felt like a Superman story, eventually became more of a Batman story
It honestly felt like a cycle after awhile. Batman finds a way to defeat Superman, the Regime and the Resistance face off, Superman gets beaten, but just as Superman's on the brink of total defeat a deus ex happens that saves Superman, several main heroes die, Batman and the resistance retreat, rinse and repeat.
Yea literally
True...the first few years were epic though
I LOVE Injustice, but the way Batman let Superman slide by temporarily siding with him against the gods in year 3 infuriated me.
Exactly! Everytime Batman was close to defeating Superman someone always came to save him and backed him up.
You can tell they had no real plan after year 2 aside from contextualizing the rest of the world. Superman's fall should have been far more gradual.
At some point it just devolved into another "Lets murder established superheroes for shock value" series.
At least the "Deadpool kills the marvel universe" series was honest about it
Devolved?
It really lost me when Superman killed Mogo. At that point it just became a series of shock value deaths to me.
I think part of the reason Injustice worked at first was because of the 2 earths.
In IJ1 you had the evil and gritty versions of these characters, but you also had the more classic and heroic versions of them to balance it out. Yellow Lantern Hal had Green Lantern Hal mocking him for turning to fear. Insurgent Batman had classic Batman arguing with him about being such an asshole. Regime Wonder Woman had classic Wonder Woman calling her out for being manipulative and warmongering. Regime Superman had classic Superman confront him over his actions and motivations.
But after IJ1 we dont really get that again, we're stuck with just these cynical, jaded and evil versions of the characters
I'm completely okay with a Superman and characters acting out of character...as long as they're over there. In another universe. Could you imagine if those versions were the ones used as the foundation for an entire cinematic universe? That would be a nightmare! Ha ha!
Whaaaat? That's crazy! No one would ever do that! Certainly not any Zach fellas!
Lmaoo literally
I don't remember Snyder using the injustice versions evil Superman is an old concept
@@dutchvanderlinde2002 If you’ve heard his plans, or saw the Snyder Cut, you would know what we mean.
@@Just_Some_Guy_with_a_Mustache I did see the Snyder cut and saw no clear indications of Injustice. Evil Superman is a common trope injustice didn't start it.
One thing I kind of hate about Injustice is that it further popularised the notion of an evil Superman which by now has been done to death and will continue to be overdone in the future. I'm at the point where I just only want real pure and hopeful Superman in outside media. The reason Superman works and why he is undeniably essential to the world of comics is because he represents the hope and goodness within all of us. In a universe filled with heroes with emotional baggage, Superman is an emotionally healthy hero who while still wrestles with his own demons, he still doesn't let those demons define him.
Really it was the first evil superman to be popular with the masses
theyve been making good characters evil since the beginning of comics. injustice just gave it more of a spotlight but it’s something thats going to happen anyway
@@leafyishereisdumbnameakath4259 not even close. Ultraman and Superman Red son. I would argue Superman Red son is more popular.
@@ethansullivan6680 red son isn't really evil tho, by the end he's basically just like the main timeline superman.
True lol, it has gotten to the point where I feel like more people know Injustice Superman than the real Superman
I think the next step for Injustice should be discovering a universe where Batman (like Superman) is pushed over a line, becomes corrupt, and becomes the villain. For some reason everyone loves tearing Superman down. I'd like to see that happen to Batman now.
For example, Superman in injustice was "what if Supermans power went to his head?" What would be a batman equivalent? Maybe his no kill rule makes him permissive towards criminals?
I mean that's pretty much been The Batman Who Laughs and his Cadre of evil Bats, more or less.
@@Badmanpuntbaxter Good point. But I feel that's an exception. The Batman who laughs was a Batman that was infected and driven insane. Superman in injustice was pushed to the edge by circumstances but chose to do what was bad. Batman who laughs didn't have a choice.
I think the only batman equivalent would be if he like started really brutalizing criminals, to the brink of death, I'm talking permanent damage, comas, lifelong effects, all for petty crimes. I can't see batman compromising his moral code in any other way.
@@apersonwhomayormaynotexist9868 I was thinking along those lines too. But I feel it was almost done already in dark knight returns
@@apersonwhomayormaynotexist9868 But that's exactly what Injustice does, though.
It compromises and shatters Clark's moral code.
In a Batman take, I could write Bruce losing his faith in the "No killing rule" every single encounter with the Joker until his "mysterious" death, and then Bruce becomes _either_ a political puppeteer mastermind in an universe that becomes more and more fascist, or his persona becomes a serial killer starts killing off every single criminal, no matter the gravity of crime (like those TikTok memes you've probably seen already).
It would actually work nice as a mystery for the other Superheroes, like a Columbo episode.
Injustice should do a flip where Batman becomes evil, and it’s super man trying to be the symbol of hope he’s always been
Probably just introduce Batman who laughs
@@romallohenry5700 No God not again.
They don't have the balls to make normal Batman the villain.
@@concept5631 😂😂 yh bro was used too heavily not gonna lie. But the metal event would make a good game with tones of cool settings
@@romallohenry5700 bro that's just a bad version of Batman.
Injustice really show me to appreciate the og Superman.
My main problem with Injustice is everyobe just forgave Harley Quinn. She helped steal the nuke, she helped abduct lois, she helped with the surgery to implant the trigger, she helped drug superman. Metropolis being wiped off the map was her fault as well as the joker, millions of people dead. And the most Harley gets is a stern talking to and the drive to 'do better' Her body count laps Superman's serval times over, why isn't she in prison?
The same reason she was sent to an asylum. She’s mentally insane and being manipulated by the joker.
If it was just the joker without Harley Quinn, the plan probably would’ve still happened. If it was just Harley Quinn without the joker it probably wouldn’tve.
(of course she’s still largely to blame and should probably be in prison- but you asked a question and that’s as good an explanation I can come up with)
Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't she cause the riot that led to Dick's death?
@@BananaWasTaken that makes absolutely no sense, and even less when you see how they treat Superman, BEFORE HE EVEN KILLS ANYONE EXCEPT JOKER. Harley kills 11 million random people, its fine! she was manipulated and feels really bad! Superman kills 1 mass murderer with a body count in the 10s of millions, THAT is unforgivable. Thats the problem with Injustice, no ones reactions to anything make sense in character, or for any rational person in the real world
For anyone wondering, the new MK was supposed to be Injustice 3 but they changed their mind when they started with the new engine
Could you link a source to that? I'd love to read that story!
Thats not true, from what i heard they said they were working on injustice 3, but wanted to get mk1 out of the way beforehand
@@theinfinitynoob8970 It was because if it had been Injustice 3, there would’ve been a 7 year gap between MK games and the studio didn’t want that.
So we were going to get he man?
It's probably more that Injustice has to have some time to figure things out since Kevin Conroy was the batman for injustice 1 and 2. MK12 was clearly rushed out instead of having a lot more time to be worked on since Netherrelm Studios had a system of MK then Injustice then MK
Sometimes I think this Injustice thing was made literally to appease cynical Batman fans and make Superman look bad. Also people sometimes forget that this was taking place in an alternate world which was Earth-22.
If Superman wanted Batman gone it wouldn't b difficult 4 him
@@dominiquejones3805 Exactly! But most Batman simps still can't accept that true fact these recent days.
@@gibbs615 i may be biased cause i dont really like Batman or any of his villains, i like some of the Bat family like Dick or Barbara, but him and his villains have always felt like the "coughing baby vs hydrogen bomb" meme compared to most DC lol
@@Comuniity_ I feel ya cause there are some recent modern versions of Batman that I just don't like either cause they are not balanced like the old ones from the 90's and further back used to be.
My biggest problem with injustice is how extreme they take Batman's no killing rule just to create conflict in a ridiculous way. Joker nuked a city, killed millions, along with Clark's wife and unborn child, and laughed about. Then when Clark kills him despite being justifiably angry, distraught, with taunting from Joker. Or that time when the parademons invaded earth if Clarl didnt kill them all they would have lost and died but
Bruce condemns him for the rest of the story. Labeling as being a lost cause.
Bruce dosn't even try to console or say "sorry for your loss" until years later injustice 2 when its far to late for that. Even though Clark was responsible for all the deaths and damaged he did during his reign. If Bruce had just been a better friend in the beginning instead of being a close minded judemental asshole. He could have kept Clark from going down his dark path. When he pushed him away Clark had nobody to turn to but Diana who deep down always had a dictator, mindset.
I agree that is point of the story two extremes fighting each other and both sides are wrong with extreme black and white views Batman trust that all villains should be redeem and killing anyone who committed the worst deeds is redeemable while Superman believe that all criminals should be but to death what DC needs a is a true hero that does want to help the villains that can be fixed like Mr freeze but knows damn well some need to die like the joker this is why like the red hood ending a hero that is bridgeing the condontriction of Batman and Superman and breaking this repeating chain of agony
@agsdragon5475 yeah Red Hood in his ending put it best which is why he is the perfect kind of vigilante. Batman may be a vigilante in the eys of the law. But judging how closely he works jim gordon and the gcpd and his views on the prescution of criminals he may as well be deputized.
@@Tywil714 There is way more to the law than "working with the police". Batman breaks countless constitutional amendments, and most evidence would be thrown out.
like bruh the real question is....Why does Batman have to kill somebody? Why is it his personal responsibility to kill Joker? Why does he have to be a murderer? Why should he shoulder the burden?
@@noirekuroraigami2270because in most iteratons batman creates the joker weather personally or figuratively, both sides of the same coin, if the batman didnt exist neither would the joker, and with the constant breaking out of arkham and him being assinine with not solving the problem once and for all, its like putting a bandaid on a festering gashing wound that you created and are like....yep this is someone elses problem
@@noirekuroraigami2270then why should he fight the joker? Why is he playing the joker game which involves thousands dead every time? If he's not gonna to stop the joker then he shouldn't be batman, whole injustice event is 100% batman fault
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I feel I ramble a bit more than usual in this one. I do apologize. Was going over in my head if I should give this one a third take instead of the 2 I did. But I think I get to the point I was making. The characters are out of character and now its being used as a clickbait marketing tactic.
the movie made me physically ill
Benny... we like the ramble
Love the rambling. I see it as honest not really negative personally.
Aw i like these commentary videos =[. You're someone who has extensive knowledge of comic books and has an intellectual and creative opinion to share. We actually agree with a lot of these ideas and one of the reasons why we have slowed down reading comics. Sure you rant on a bit, but that's something I've come to expect from you heh
I believe I can speak for most of the audience when I say: no apologies necessary. Since there's clearly the point that also could had been their own individual "The Problem With..." videos in that lead up, I think the summary was a necessary evil (even if you felt like it was an extra amount of rambling.) Anyone whose watched a "The Problem With..." video on the channel KNOWS by now that you always give the benefit of a doubt that this video might be watched by somone SUPER NEW to the channel.
I would agree this feels like DC Comics is shooting themselves in the foot by messing around with the Injustice continutity. We all know the company wants the freedom to drop more games. Injustice was one of those fighting games where the voice talent and writing talent made the story mode accessible to people who do not enjoy the Fighting Games genre. (I was one of those people.) The majority of people I know that are heavily into competitive Fighting Games agree the game was nothing special which confirms the sales for that game were rooted in said story.
You would think that the execs at DC Comics were aware of this truth and would not risk people pointing to the Comics as a reason to purchase future installments in the video game franchise.
(This video dances around my current "The Problem With..." comics issue: DC Comics and Marvel aren't interested in creating new characters when they can just keep giving younger characters identical power sets to fan favorite characters. Jon Kent was a neat concept as a pre-teen character but as an adult he's just competing for space with Superman. With Miles in 616, what's the point of adding Spider-Boy to the mix? The worlds are starting to feel hollow with all stories taking place in two or three cities and some how everyone is there and somehow every famous hero has two or more counterparts to them with similar power sets and similar names. We've moved away from original content to soap opera territory where we have to have the same small cast do the same things over and over again.)
People need to seriously stop making lois the only reason he becomes evil. Not only is it overplayed, but it also makes Superman look selfish and shallow.
Superman knows how to morn and grief in a healthy way. There's even a comic where manchester black makes a illusion where lois is dead and metropolis is gone and you know what he does... he doesn't kill Manchester cause it isn't what Lois would've wanted. He's sad, of course he is, but he doesn't cross that line cause it's not who he is.
Damn, it would be so cool if John Kent became the Xeno Future Trunks of DC, going around and fixing flawed timelines like Injustice, mostly to make sure his Dad has a happy timeline in every timeline.
I mean shit they have superboy prime around its a possibility
@@ryohhibikithe9thhokage532 So John Kent is the multiverse's white blood cell that goes around and fixes things as opposed to Superboy Prime acting as a virus and destroying everything.
@@concept5631 if conner can exist while John's around absolutely
He'd be beefing with the time trapper then
One of my problem with Injustice 2 as a whole is how they underutilized the titans. In the Injustice 1 video game it was revealed from Cyborg and Raven that most of the titans died in metropolis, but when we got the Year 3 tie in story about what really happened to the titans, only Kid Flash (Bart Allen) and Beast Boy were the only ones who died during the explosion, while the rest, Red Robin, Starfire, Superboy, and Wonder Girl were trapped in the phantom zone, and they weren’t rescued until Injustice 2 comic by Batman and his team. And then after their battle with Amazo and Starro, they were just thrown into the wayside.
I feel like the titans should have a bigger role after they were freed. For Conner, you could have had him trying to fix all the damage Kal-El has done such as rebuilding people’s trust . And when it comes Kara and Kal, you could have it where Kara doesn’t trust Kon at first and sides with Kal, and show Kal manipulating her but once she finds out the truth about the situation, she then sides with Kon and tries to restore the Superman legacy.
For Cassie, they could have shown more of her and Diana’s relationship, and seeing how Diana wasn’t the person she looked up to, Cassie decided to make the Wonder Woman legacy as it should be like in the main continuity.
For Kori, they could have her reuniting with Victor, telling him what happened, and have her calling him out about the decision Vic made and chose to do, while their relationship starts to get rocky, Kori was managed to get Victor to see the error of his ways. You could have her confront Damian about the death of Dick and the path he chose to.
And had Tim not died because of General Zod, I could see him bringing Batman out of his darkness and try to help restore the dynamic duo, while also confronting Superman, Cyborg, and Damian.
But what would you do about Raven still?
@@brandonfj5811 I’m not sure about Raven, since we’re never told what happened to her after the first injustice game. So it really depends, but I can see Kori, Victor and Cassie trying to get to her and helping her heal from her father’s defeat.
“ her father’s defeat.”
What did I miss?
It blew my mind that Roy hasn't been in Injustice at ALL. Green Arrow's death was a big deal, but Tom King can't even be arsed to show Ollie's first protégé's reaction?
We got all four Robins, even if they're terribly written, but none of the Arrow kids except Connor?
@@sephlock4767 To sum it up, In year 3, John Constantine made a deal with Trigon to find Superman and find Raven. John and Bruce was taking Raven, Flash, Cyborg and Robin hostage, but Superman and his team managed to find to find thanks to Mr.Mxypliz, John summoned Trigon and then Mx and Trigon started fighting each other which was starting to destroy reality. To stop that from happening, Doctor Fate and Shazam combined their powers to send both of them to a void where they could never come back.
The reason I like "The Problem With..." series is because I can listen to it without having to pay attention to the fine details of things. Don't get me wrong I appreciate and enjoy the editing, however I was listening to this while I am working and it is a different feeling from the comic book stories that you do!
Hearing someone rant and rave about something they're passionate about can be comforting to listen to as background music.
The problem was not a bad superman, the problem was that the people was more attracted to superman's ideas than Batman's. So they weren't able to create a story where the villain wins. The worst year was the one with all the greek gods
After a while Batman has probably broke every bone n his body.Dude kill him, u acny sav3 The Joker
I was always waiting for them to explain the Superman never recovered from the kryptonite joker gas and give him an excuse for his behavior. Of course I was really hoping that they were going to finish the Batman who laughs story not overpower or outsmart him, but turn him sane you watch Bruce Wayne get destroyed by his own guilt
There is one issue of the injustice universe you forgot, He-Man and The Masters of the Universe Vs Injustice. Which if you look at it, it can be considered Injustice 3 due to Superman's ending from Injustice 2.
Btw I would love to see you and Rob have a debate again about this six issue limited series and the possiblity of a set to Injustice 3 with this. And having Val-zod and Lois Tornado try to help the injustice universe.
Thank you. Somone remembered this. Weird Benny didn't mention this. It would REALLY strengthen his argument about the inconsistency that needs to let the story end.
Please tell me He-man whoops his ass
@@flashergoldpower15 oh yeah Superman definitely felt the strength of the most powerful man of the universe. And then the wizard Shazam gave him an additional boost of power combined with his own.
@@kamenrangerzeo8251 whew, thank fucking goodness! Now seeing that animated..would be kinda cool
Where can I see their debate?
8:56 Nearly 2 decades of being a comic book fan and that is the first time I've heard and learned how Mr. Mxyzptlk's name is pronounced.
I enjoy injustice at times, it can be kinda depressing to see such perverse versions of beloved characters tho. You kind of just have'ta suspend your disbelief about how unlike themselves they act at times
Finally. Someone who isn’t too far up Batman’s a$$ to admit how ridiculous things get when you try too hard to please people who hate Superman.
I'm genuinely curious how people will look back on how hard we've been dickriding Batman at the expense of everyone else.
@@concept5631injustice whole event happened because batman kept playing joker game
@@ZrankHedn Injustice happened because Gotham is so fucking corrupt it can't even put down a homicidal clown.
@@concept5631 that homicidal clown kept getting crazier and more ruthless because batman isn't willing to kill him nor leave him alone, batman made joker obsessed with crimes
@@ZrankHednlike bow batman can prepare for all his team becoming evil but Didn't have a plan to protect lois and his God child while never attempting to permanently put down joker the right way
My problem with Injustice is that Superman, the guy who threatened the Joker and told him that he just "generally doesn't kill people" but might make an exception for the Joker *AND* basically traumatized the Joker somehow turns evil once he actually kills the Joker
The whole thing is just "what if we apply Batman's bs moral rules to Superman"
Wrong
The whole point is look batman is better than superman because batman didn't turn evil when he lost his family while superman did
I would get the point of the complaint superman is "out of character" if this was the main universe. But injustice is ultimately just another elseworlds story, it is allowed to be flexible to wild extents because this isnt the "actual superman". Plus the thing i think people often lapse is that this wasnt lex, or zod who put superman on this path, it was the Joker. The point of the joker is how he can drag almost anyone down to his level with his "all it takes is one bad day" philosophy, or to quote the Dark Knight "you either die a hero or live long enough to see yourself become the villain." And what we are experiencing with those 5 years is the long enough part.
Now even though i do enjoy everything that came after, I do agree that there is a problem with DC is "milking" it with Injustice 2 and the recent Jon Kent comic.
I mean, yeah, wasn't that the whole point of Wonder Woman story, where she kills that Nazi spy, to show that their characters are vastly different and heroes were prone to different behaviour even in their past in that universe? That's how I see it
See that's what I was thinking, surely half the point of making a multiverse and multiversal story is specifically so you can have characters act out of character...people goin "wah Superman out of character" seem to be absolutely determined to miss that point, I mean come on in the game an accurate version of Superman even comes to save the day like...the fuck do you people want? 😂
Also in a world where The Batman Who Laughs not only exists in the main continuity but was a roaring success, Injustice Superman, for me at least, is nowhere near as egregious.
@@cptsteele91being a different continuity is fine and dandy. Seeing a skin walking Superman wearing the same colors and melting a child’s brain is too much and indulgent for writers who never left their edge lord phase
For me Hal Jordan not questioning why one of his worst enemies is joining the team was too much
@@d04lvallier As a big GL fan this also threw me for a loop to, but as a bigger fan of the lantern mythos it does make sense when you take a step back. Hal was initially warry of Sinestro wanting to join superman's side, but Sinestro himself wasnt always bad and wanted to maintain "order" because of the dotting nature of the guardians. Plus like superman, Hal gave into his grief and fear when he lost John without knowing that Sinestro was manipulating him, he threw logic out of the window.
I wish more attention was paid to the fact that it was the main universe Superman that stops the Injustice Superman and save the world.
I remember Injustice Harley Quinn appaered in Last years Harley Quinn multiverse storyline (issue 22-27) , and they did nothing with it. She didn't even make sense to be there, she didn't do anything. So I agree with you in this video.
This felt like a mandate. A good idea would've been him going after injustice 2, without supes the regime are still in charge. He actually has a better heart to heart with batman and the 4 sons he lost, and he goes to se Clark in the phantom zone.
It would reinforce that there are lines superheroes shouldn't cross which is what started this whole run.
Some of the motivations of the characters just puts me of Injustice ..
Some hero’s go from Hero to flat out Evil of any inconvenience it seems ..
I was never crazy about The Joker being the one to break Superman either & Batman V Superman is a bit played out in my opinion
I actually love these "problem with" vids. Benny thrives on his own ranty video lol
I remember jumping at phone every time a new issue for year one and two dropped. It made me cry, angry,cheer..it made me want more. I wish more modern comics would hit me as hard as this did.
Injustice 2 had fun interactions. I liked listening to Jay Garrick.
As for comic books, Idk. I do think that rock Dick fell on with his head was so random.
It was kinda stupid
Who would win
The first robin,trained by Batman,and a strong hero
Or
A rocky boi
I just wanted to throw out there that Injustice got me looking at DC after being "over-Marveled". I really REALLY enjoyed the story, and when I found out there was a comic I tried it out. First comic I ever read. I literally sat there after the first issue and said "Oooooohhhhhhh... THIS is why people obsess over comics!"
Injustice 2 and injustice 1 feel so disconnected like how is everyone gonna return to normal and act like friends after a dictatorship and parallel universe
Fr
The problem I had with the series was that there was no ending... you needed to play the video game to see the ending. I never played the game and have no intention of playing the game but for stories like this that exist outside continuity, I like them to have an ending. I want a complete story with a beginning and an end. I never read year 5, I stopped when I found out it wouldn't have a proper ending. There was some great story telling in year 1-3 though. It was a shame that it never had a proper ending.
Well, MotU vs Injustice pretty much ends the series... Which ofc we know how corporate greed works, they will find a half ass way to circumvent it, such as completley ignoring that they did publish it.
Superman killing Hercules and shazam was just weird.
I will tell you the problems with Injustice
1)Batman
The series keeps riding him like he is this true hero and moral compass.
But he isnt.
He isnt half the man he is in most universes.
He was always cold to Damian as a CHILD,he lacks all the touching moments comic Batman had with his son.Its also implied he was abusive cause Damian felt the need to take a super pill to merely visit his father and when Batman started getting close to him Damian said basically said "Not again".This is DISGUSTING
No shit Damian lost his mind and killed Nightwing,he spent 10 years brutalised by Talia and Ras and then he has to live with this psycho.
Even other heroes comment on his bad personality
He turned a blind eye to Harley Quinn killing a man in the Injustice 2 trailer,despite hurting other people for doing the same,what a pathetic simp.
2)Damian
I dont blame him for hating Bruce,he deserves it.
But Damian isnt the character that would suck up to Superman like that or anyone for that matter,its completely against his personality.
Another thing is his physical appearance,he isnt Nightwings son so why does he look like his clone?
Whenever we see Damian in the future in comics he is reasonably well built and over 6 foot,in some futures he ends up BIGGER than Bruce.
The other thing is that Damian isnt supposed to be weak and incompetent,even current 14 year old Damian in the comics is far more skilled than Injustice Damian.He should be imposing and dangerous but they made him a joke
In the comics Damian growing up is treated like a future apocalyptic event if he becomes a bad guy,he is supposed to have the potential to surpass Batman and Nightwing.
But in Injustice him getting his ass beat is a running gag
3)Wonder Woman
Whats the point of having darker versions of the characters when they are so different they basically a different character.
This character isnt an interesting twist to Diana,she is just someone else entirely.
4)Superman
Where the shit do i even begin with this guy?
The series cant decide if he is this complex tragic character or pure evil character.
Killing Shazam?Hiring Zsazz to kill Alfred?Breaking a boys arm?Attacking his alternate universe son?
Damien and Bruce were antagonistic towards one another specifically after he took superman side and killed Nightwing Bruce was a lot of things abusive however no he wasn't in one issue of the story Batman before the relationship turned sour told Damian he was proud of him right after Damian had completed a mission
Specifically what issue or year are you referring to because I don't remember this Damian is the way he is because he's a natural born asshole who really doesn't give shit about people unless they enabled his bullshit Nightwing and Alfred cuddle him how did he repay them he had intent to violently hurt Nightwing which resulted in his death and when superman murdered Alfred he still sided with him threw Alfred in the pit not caring about the after effects
..
Also if Bruce was as abusive as you claim Nightwing or Alfred would have done something about it especially Alfred they wouldn't let it happen Damian shows no fear towards Bruce at all during injustice in fact he actively antagonistic towards Bruce constantly egging him on in a fight abuse victims don't do that to their abusers
Bruce at best is an emotional distant parent for one he's emotionally stunted two him and Damien are practically strangers
Also injustice 2 trailer your referring to earlier in the comics green arrow found Harley Bruce was either busy finding the president or dealing with superman so it's not like he turned a blind eye to what she was doing injustice 2 Harley kills no one at all she's against it as much as Bruce is
Other characters who commit on his personality who are regime members
I agree on all that big time! Batman was always nothing but an arrogant closed off vigilante dickhead who is never very understanding about anything or to anyone.
Batman is for sure an ass. Nightwing and alfred put up with it because they know him like no one else does. But my issue with him is how morally uptight he is to a fault. Superman killed the man who took away his wife and kid and Batman condemns the killing of joker. Batman didnt have to agree but to understand why because Superman needed a friend.
@@HectorPryorYT actually Batman literally tells Superman twice too his face if the roles were reversed he would have killed the joker Batman literally didn't give a shit that Superman murder the joker his only real issue is where Superman was going from there
Batman really wasn't uptight about joker death if he was he would have immediately condemned superman right after he murdered the joker but he didn't
The only time he really started too chastise superman for killing is when he started actually murdering people like green arrow
@@HectorPryorYT what superman need was to be told to stop which he was told too by Batman but superman immediate response was to yell and scream in his face what superman need was to learn he can't play judge jury and executioner which Batman told him superman main flaw is he can't hear past his own height if he had simply listen to Batman injustice wouldn't have happened
Also superman never chooses actual genuine help he himself refuses to acknowledge his own trauma and issues he never wanted help Batman not obligated to help someone who doesn't even wanna help himself
I've always viewed every injustice appearance as an elseworld story. Having jon interact with it makes it canon now.
I can actually buy the whole "justice league goes evil" story, given that it's an alternate universe and they can give reasons for why these popular superheroes would act so out of character, but the problem with injustice is that they never quite do explain it. They pretty much just rotate in a cycle from one spectacle to another, never giving the story a moment to breathe and that is a big problem.
As much as I love the story for its plot and themes, it has a lot of continuity errors and jarring plot holes that were never addressed (Batman never even considering what happened to Tim).
The Justice Lords handle "Justice League going evil" pretty well.
What if John Kent returns later in his story after all of the Injustice lore, and sees that he was totally ignored. And *then* fixes it.
Honestly I think what John said to Superman did get through to him to some extent. And injustice 2 there's a interaction between Superman and cyborg when you have them fight each other that has Superman asking if they've gone too far.
I hate that Nightwing dies and Batman then says "You are dead to me Damian" when there were bigger reasons before and after that should of made Batman lose faith in Damien. But yes the story itself is a mix of highs and lows, but Damien I feel really shouldn't of been in Injustice, that way it would be more emotional once Nightwing died from a "real tragic way of going" that would cause Batman to border on the line, for example if Superman lobotomized Nightwing in front of Batman while he could do nothing, instead of killing Billy "The Shazam Man" -Jack
Then again, I have bad ideas and barely any ideas besides a scene. That is why I am not able to make any comic stories of my own, I just don't have the creativity and skill for making a actual good story, all I do is make a derivative story with stolen property, so I could never make a comic because I would just ruin it more and more each time I write more to it. I always ruin my stories by adding more and more to it, instead of a plot that starts and ends properly. -Jack
What happen (or where is he) to Red Hood when all of this event happen?
@@lucaslongolucasksenha7827 Jason is the "Evil Batman" who works for the League of Shadows from the Injustice 2 tie-in comics (which you can find on Comicstorian). I don't remember if he made it into Injustice 2 proper.
Yeah! Batman hates Damian because he kill Richard Grayson. Heck, even Starfire hates Damian. Damian was raised by The League of Assassins. Nightwing is the better son of Batman than Damian Al Ghul.
I feel like your younger son killing your older son over something stupid is a pretty good reason to disown the younger son.
I feel they won’t quit working on injustice because injustice has become such a huge hit in the pro fighting game tournaments and the game sells very well to the point where they don’t care about comics or continuity really.
The games could have been a Dark Knights Return fighter, or a Kingdom Come Fighter game which would have made sense. Or doing something with the Crime Syndicate.
I hate how Harley was redeemed
Why?
@@Bruce_Wayne841If I had to guess it's the idea it feels like her Joker issues excuse helping him break Superman by drugging him into killing his wife and unborn child with everyone but the bad guys feeling that's good enough to redeem her. Maybe because the games didn't show how she earned that redemption.
Plus if they can redeem Harley Quinn, why not redeem Superman?
@@ArcCaravan you know that's a danm good point
Personally I like when writers make different takes one the same character, as long as it doesn’t make the story confusing or anything
I do as well. I feel like when writers get to put characters in these elseworlds situations they can be much more creative with how they write certain characters cus they don’t have to worry about messing up the main canon or anything like that. Elseworlds/alternate reality stories are some of my favorite comics
Why would injustice reveal this year if mk just revealed?
Thank you! Had this very conversation, not as detailed and thorough; however, it stemmed from me shifting my rankings on IP characters I like...I moved Lex up and it spawned this type convo. GoodShit!!
I dislike Injustice mainly for it's effect on popular media. Superman is my favorite fictional character of all time. And I feel like ever since Injustice came out we have way to many evil Superman in popular media. Man of Steel came out in 2013 and I thought it was just okay. Then you have BvS and again just okay. In each of these iterations Superman is not himself. Then you have The Boys with an evil Superman, Invincible with and evil Superman, Brightburn with an evil Superboy, and to an extent Ikaris of MCU fame, and the new Suicide Squad game has en "evil" Superman. Finally as mentioned above Snyderverse Superman is edgy, dark and broody. It just gets so tiring. Which is why I was so happy we have Superman and Lois' Superman while flawed is a huge step up. All Might is another example of a Superman character done right.
Most of those characters you listed arent superman. Having superman powers is not the same thing as being superman. Throughout the same length of time you mentioned there have been many of "up beat and upright" superman stories, it's just that you have only focused on these ones.
@@darryljack6612I think he means there based off him but even with that being said he still wrong since Invincible and the Boys comics came out before Injustice. Brightbrun is a valid complaint and Ikruis has always been a butt hole comics or otherwise.
The real issue is when people start believing Injustice Superman is actually THE Superman and not an else world version its like calling Kimgdom comes Batman the prime version of Batman.
My problem is DC's obsession with it. Did we really need an animated movie that unnaturally scrunched five years of comics, two crossovers, an interquel, and a prequel?
Surpised he didn't at least mention the He-Man crossover
It’s basically like a flashpoint knockoff if you think about it
No offense, but it seems really myopic to fixate on only the Injustice line of books, when all of Marvel and DC is guilty of never resolving plots or allowing for permanent change.
This one of the main strengths of manga-- characters age and die. Characters grow. And they don't go back. There's no "resetting" the universe, and most villains die/disappear when defeated. You don't fight Joker a million times; you kill Cell, you kill Buu. Also, Goku ages and stays aged. There's just one timeline and we stick to it.
Marvel and DC just keep resetting and recycling everything again and again.
Take Batman, for instance. His story SHOULD be: Year 1, Joker + other costumed supervillains, the inmates escape Arkham and so he has to beat them again w/ the help of Robin and associates, Bane shows up and temporarily ends his career, Batman's disciples take over, The Dark Knight returns, Bruce mentors Terry to be the new Batman. The end.
Green Lanterns? Only one rep from Earth (or that entire "space sector" that contains Earth) should ever exist at any one time. The only exception would be when Kyle is corrupted by the Parallax, which forces the selection of a new Lantern.
DC storylines never make any sense-- especially when they sell well. That just motivates the creators to keep things going, make things bigger, and make thigns more and more nonsensical.
22:30 Injustice 3 was never going to be announced at EVO. NetherRealm, the developers of the Injustice games, are busy with finishing and promoting Mortal Kombat 1. They never promoted two games at the same time in the past, even if one game has released and is currently in its DLC phase. They always let one game's life cycle end before promoting the next one. This must have been a theory amongst the comic book community because no one in the fighting game community was talking about this.
I agree, that was a horrible twist for Cyborg to hit Jon anyway.
I hadn't heard of injustice before this video
I would love Superman vs the regime because he wants to fix his mistakes.
Kinda like a dad fixing his mistake of "do as I say not as I do"
24:13 POV Companies after Pride Month:
Injustice 3 was scrapped because James Gunn wants to unify all media's from gaming, comics, cartoons to movies. Thus Mortal Kombat 1 was reskinned over what Injustice 3 was going to be. A sidekick based fighting game. Only now, they've changed sidekicks to kameos and used Mortal Kombat instead.
james gun is only 5 months in dc the game took 4 years to develop
@homoxide1
James Gunn was pulling string well before he got hired. Soon after Suicide Squad 2, he had his hands in DC. During GOTG release, he was thick into behind the scenes DC, which is how we got where we were 5 months ago. How do you think he had a 10-year DCU plan ready 5 months ago when he announced God's And Monsters? (Or whatever he called the era) hiw else you think Flash, Aquaman 2, Shazam 2 and Blue Beetle movies have been influenced because of James Gunn and those movies had many re-shoots when a majority of those movies was done and ready to go.
Anywho, back to the point, and I hope you read up to this point. That's why I said MK1 is Injustice 3 reskinned. They already knew the direction they wanted to go with MK story. They just didn't expect to have kameos until last minute and that's why kameo characters won't have a big part in the story mode although MK1 main mechanic the game is built around is "Sidekicks" now "kameos".
Benny, been following you for a decade, this is one of my favorite series you’ve done! Keep it up! 🙏🏼🔥
I love “the problem with” videos! Keep them coming
We love waiting for your ramblings! Keep it up!
Personally for me my problem with injustice is that well it ran way to long and DC should just let it go and not keep bringing it back but for some reason DC wants to keep this universe going to which I say why, what is the point because after injustice 2 there's no place else to go and it feels to me that batman ending to injustice 2 feels like the canon ending to the lore and ends the story of injustice as a whole at least in my opinion. Also I agree the Jon kent situation with injustice just felt like a complete waste of time and proves my point that i was right from the very beginning and DC should stop and listen for once and just pull the plug of teenage jon kent and just gives us back the real Jonathan Samuel Kent superboy as his little 10 year old self, because not letting this jon kent we have now stay in the injustice universe to help fix that world and putting him back in the main universe again proves my point that he's redundant and obsolete. Which is just sad and depressing when you think about it because the Jonathan Samuel Kent superboy as his little 10 year old self i knew and liked had so much potential to keep on going and to not capitalize on any of his potential to not do anything with him just to keep him aged up, just seems like desperate and just stupid on so many levels it ain't even funny but just sad and depressing at least in my opinion. Now with all that said though as for injustice as a whole i agree at this point DC should just stop with injustice and let it go because keeping it going as it's now just seems lazy and a complete waste of time and just complicates the universe so much that I don't think people are going to care about injustice as a brand if it keeps on going forever and people will get tired of it and move on from it at least that's just my opinion on that situation as a whole. With all that said though great video on the problem with injustice as a whole and I hope you have a great day today benny. :)
Rip goat
Great video keep it up. I truly feel like Injustice comics are enjoyable as long as you treat them as their own universe and not the main universe. I personally believe they're saving some kind of redemption arc for Superman for Injustice 3. Yes the comic sell like gangbusters but the games hold more weight.
I've been in favor of a Blackest Night style Injustice 3 where Black Lantern Lois Lane haunts him but that's entirely me.
The problem with Injustice is the DCU is filled with superhuman denizens who would tell Kal El to kick rocks. First among them, contrary to the story, would be WW.
Injustice Is The DCU version of Marvel"s Civil War
But lamer
Injustice year 1-5 was amazing. No complaints . The problem was that it ended . Superman in jail end of story .
Injustice 2 - major antagonist Braniac. Does that get anyone overly excited ?
Injustice 3- Who will the next antagonist be?.
Also the caveat to injustice was always the moral dilemma of unAlive criminals for the greater good.
This is really what the war was about so anything that can prolong the war means more injustice.
The Problem With *THE BATMAN WHO LAUGHS* 🙄
Going all in on the Homelander style? No please not... Homelander is just aa broken child in a grown body. Broken Superman is different. The coin flipped from love to hate. A foil to the original Superman.
Injustice Superman shouldn't be crying for his mommy... .... .... Ok maybe... in a really dramatic way. But not like mommyboy Homelander.
Hey just curious if you would ever do a dramatized video of coheed and Cambria armory wars. There is a lot of good story and I love listening to your stuff while I work. Think you are a great fit.
An injustice event is coming. The next thing that will happen will be Damien meeting Injustice Damian.
My problem with Injustice is that I can't find any tournaments and we're probably never gonna get a third installment. RIP Kevin
I feel the success of Injustice was both comic and videogame, was the beginning of the "what if Superman was evil" trend. Which I find odd, because you've had evil Supermen before like Ultraman. Yet they never set off that trend like Injustice Superman.
I love "problem with" title
Injustice's very concept as a dark 'subversion' of its superheroes is a flawed premise in of itself. Superman is not just a symbol of righteousness, but a hero who stands in the face of justice and heroism no matter the cost. He inspires both the other characters and the reader with his naive, but optimistic outlook on the world.
Having a Superman that not only murders the Joker out of anher, and then proceed to enfore a police state on the world is so far removed from what Superman represents that it no longer feels like the character has fallen, and more like this is some fake version of him straight out of a fanfic.
And you know what, _it is._ Injustice is just another fan creation, one that was set up purely for the sake of subversion, created on the sole intent of taking a beloved character and perverting their very nature. This storyline was set up to fail at the very beginning.
9:23 I'd argue thats a NRS problem- all their stories involve mulitverse or time travel.
I mean, MK11 is bacially IJ when it comes to other versions helping modern versiosn
I hate whenever people say the injustice characters aren't acting like themselves. No shit! No one says that about any other elseworld but injustice.
Because pre-Joker's death everyone was presented as if they were very similar to whatever was the base line for the prime DC universe. The sudden change to like half of the characters made no sense. You mean to tell me that half of the superhero community was willing to be okay with a sudden dictatorship after presumably fighting it for however long it may have been for that universe?
The difference between this and Red Son is that Red Son makes very clear that Superman had a very different origin and his beliefs made sense for how he grew up. Injustice Superman clearly grew up as a human being raised by Jonathan and Martha Kent, with presumed years of inspiring many other heroes.
@JogVodka your exact words "very similar", that means they're not completely the same. So when they do change up, it's ok because they weren't 1 to 1 copies to begin with. Plus, dude, if they were the 1 to 1 copies of our canonical characters, we wouldn't even have the game to begin with. They need to change and think differently than the characters they normally are.
The death of the Joker happens 5 years before the game starts, within those 5 years, a lot can and will happen. So will some of them say no, of course, but most probably wouldn't because it's Superman.
Also if you wanna say they were easily swayed to follow his lead, look up the justice lords and watch the justice league series and tell me how unlike the characters they are because they all switched the moment they saw supes kill lex as president. They didn't need 5 years to turn their morales off
you said it at 8:15, Superman and Batman should have taken a breath and talked it out but their egos were to booted to even consider that.
The thing about injustice is that the writers are like Batman can fight against Superman he can stand up to him with the pills that grant him super strength but no that’s not how it would go if Clark let go of his humanity if he truly is as gone as the story says he is then why don’t he just straight up kill him bruce said it himself that if Clark did fully go bad there is no one that can stop him with plans or not
Im sorry i love Harley and her redemption ark to a hero in most comics. But this one felt eh lmao. She help the joker kidnap lois, drug superman, trick him into killing her while also nuking an entire city at the same time. I dont really see how she got away with it
The point of Harley's character is that she easily emotionally manipulated by the Joker, because if I recall correctly did anyone see Harley's face and that one panel with the Joker when they we're watching Superman lift Doomsday (Lois Lane-Kent) into the sky?
@@AnonymousEnigma19that doesn't mean she should be resolved of all her punishment. She should still be held accountable for her actions and the fact that no one did that is terrible.
@@UnlimitedIvory what do you think she's been trying to do? Throughout the story she's been fighting like HE🏒🏒 to make up for everything she done while under the Joker's influence, what do you want her to do? Offer Up her daughter to Superman as a sacrifice?
@AnonymousEnigma19 No, I want her to be put in prison in then whatever happens, happens. I mean, Killer Croc isn't that bad compared to her, but he got locked away. Treat her the same as everyone else.
@@UnlimitedIvory and that's why she's not, because Batman and the other heroes from the resistance would know that if they did that she would be as good as dead, because instead prison would be people who would have a beef with Joker first starting all this chaos and they would take it out on Harley, and that would be blood on their hands.
The problem with Injustice is that it exists and it’s a 14 year olds idea for what DC should be like
Facts i used to enjoy it but ive realised how shit it is.
What do ya want, a reboot of it, LOL?.? Just when you think the continuity is established, SomeThing gets RetConned, just so they can make a change WithOut yet another burntout multiversal event.
That Kind of sounds like a 14 year olds mentality if you think about it…
@@change023not really man
@@UnlimitedIvory kinda yeah. Dude sounds like a child complaining that something “exists,” just because they don’t like it. That’s what a 14 year old would say.
Imagine instead of getting Injustice 3 (at least yet) we got an MK v Injustice. MK1 looks amazing and is a new universe. Plus MK vs DCU had some gems in it and could be done better.
I like Benny respectfully addressing problems! 😊
Man just explained everything wrong with most super hero comics and tv shows. They drag it out to much
I don't know what a better title would be, but I enjoy this series. It's good to look at something you love and point out the flaws and hope for better in the future.
Injustice is just a Superman hit piece . It did nothing but further destroy his brand. People don’t see him as the beacon of hope anymore now he’s just one loss away from becoming alien Hitler.
Agreed
People are So Ignorant
That they Believe This Superman Is the Cannon one
I hope Superman Legacy Shows Who Superman truly Is
A Beacon of Hope not some Batmanfied Edgelord
What I loved most about Injustice, it brought back George Newbern, Kevin Conroy, and Susan Eisenberg together as the trinity. I prefer George over Tim.
Yeah it sucks he was evil, but that's why the final level is my favorite.
Batman and harley got released by john before the “superman v superman hug”
Injustice felt simplistic to me. I’ve said this before but I’ve came up with some fixes like having the regime be built on more ideological principles rather than what we got. Batman for instance would be more narcissistic who whenever asked for reform never gives a direct answer. Why I did this was that simply appealing for a better way without any practicality is idealism. A prompt was that the injustice world would be like the fall of the Roman republic and form of the Roman Empire.
The first injustice game and the comics leading up to it were great, the second game (despite the retcons) was also good.
Everthing else was unnecessary and forced, they need to stop milking it.
The main problem with injustice is how bias it is! They could’ve made a story where both sides aren’t evil and just want to save the world differently. Who is gonna cry for Joker when Superman killed him? Who’s gonna cry for the dictators Superman killed or any of the other villains? Like Benny said, they had to escalate him to even cartoonish level of evil that the game is twisting your arm to hate Superman! Then injustice 2 happened, at the end where the two factions are wondering what to do with brainiac, Batman STILL defends not killing him despite knowing that Cyborg can bring the cities back! He’d rather risk keeping brainiac alive to save the cities, even tho there’s a chance he’d just destroy them all. Then of course the best question of all “How many innocent lives is it gonna take before you realize that some lives have to be taken!?” and what was batman’s answer? The same answer he gave when Damien asked him “So you’re fine with crippling them but taking their lives is too far?” Nothing! This is Batman at his most obnoxious cause he never questions if he’s wrong.
People keep saying “Why don’t they talk? If talk then Superman will change” well, why does Superman have to change and not Batman? Well because the story is forcing us to believe that Batman is objectively right. The problem comes when you see the Gotham is under batman’s watch! Yeah, Jon you heard nothing while flying around and I’m sure there are people who like that. Ya think Gotham loves the quiet and not the constant sounds of explosions and death because of batman’s rouges gallery?
It’s just a Batman suck fest with no character development for him despite it being an alternate universe! You can have this Batman question if his no kill rule was wrong but no, more stagnate BS! That’s the problem with Batman in a nutshell, he’s stagnate! He’s been the same character for for years with nothing new. They give him his biological son and how does Batman change? He doesn’t but Damien has to change to suit Batman’s code because Batman is perfect and so Mary Sue.
I feel like both Batman and Superman in Injustice is wrong, Batman for being so against Superman, and Superman for killing people even for the smallest inconvenience, in fact, the dream Superman had about Batman killing Joker for Superman and Superman than hugging him is more in character for the both of them
@@sudeeptoshoron4755 Sadly that dream wouldn’t happen if Superman let joker live.
@@GunthersLoyalSoldier1307actually the reason he didn't wanna have cyborg do it is because he doesn't trust cyborg is literally siding with a mass murdering tyrannical dictator you cannot expect Bruce to trust cyborg in some ladder endings they find ways to free those trapped cities even without branic involvement
Also the story doesn't state Batman objectively right in fact the story specifically states he'd just as wrong as Superman is he gets called out for not dealing with the joker properly years ago he gets called out for not exactly being a good friend too superman emotionally in his time of need
The story is not at one point ever stating Bruce is right in fact the story even exposes how flawed his whole no kill rule is
Joker : you let me live and look what happened
Batman: that's on you not me
Joker : keep telling yourself that
In year one superman even tells Batman by not killing the joker he's just as guilty as him so where exactly does injustice push the narrative he's objectively right
@@waterpillar1977 Ladder endings aren’t canon and Batman does instead on using brainiac to bring the cities back. Batman is a damn fool if he think Brainiac will bring the cites back.
Tell me what happens in injustice 2’s ending, Batman stops Superman and everything is fine while Superman’s ending has him brainwashing people. If that doesn’t tell you that the game is making Batman the one in the right then I don’t know what.
Even when he’s called out, he’s always put in the right! The good ending is Batman route while the evil ending is superman’s. You can see in the games, comics and even if ANY case where Batman is called out for his no kill rule, he doesn’t even question being possible wrong about his ideals. Hell, even tho Harley had a hand in all this happening in the first place, Batman makes her his sidekick and she faces NO consequences! Supergirl even saves her from WW! Even when she finds out it was because of Harley and joker, she still sides against her cousin!
@@GunthersLoyalSoldier1307 that's because Superman is the antagonist and the final villain and a literally mass murdering tyrannical dictator so let me get this straight your main compliment is that Superman bad ending is bad while Batman good that's your main argument that's laughable in it's entirety the entire point injustice which you clearly miss is never making Batman right in fact Batman ending is more about hope and building a better future which is emphasize through supergirl more so then Batman
Injustice doesn't treat Batman as objectively right he's just as flawed as Superman throughout the entire story of injustice he's criticized throughout the entirety of injustice games comics
So to make sure I get your point Batman having a better hopeful ending is the game objectively making him right despite him getting criticized and called throughout the game and the entire franchise u hope you realize how stupid your argument is right? If the game was truly trying to make him objectively he wouldn't be getting called out left and fucking right
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Two I brought up the ladder endings because it shows possibilities of what they CAN do Batman didn't want Braniac killed because he felt he was still useful Batman could find a way to force him to do it anyway
Batman flat out agrees with Superman that he is guilty of joker crimes when asked does he feel guilty for letting people die by joker hands he felt out States every time
He's never at one point treated right Batman knows his no kill rule is flawed if he didn't his response to superman would not be I feel guilty
The Kent's call him out pa Kent has him apologizing to superman for not properly being there
Batman doesn't make her his sidekick he keeps a close eye on her but he isn't buddy buddy with her he didn't recruit green arrow did working with someone doesn't mean you like that person
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Superman is a literal Mass murdering tyrannical dictator who turned his back on everything he stood far the house of el stood far no wonder kara wasn't going stand by him
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Batman is constantly getting shit on for either being a bad friend terrible father or for letting joker live which started this shit show..
Batman is treated as the lesser evil between him and Superman the story constantly points out that his methods are flawed and don't really work in the long terms if the story was really treating Batman as objectively right characters wouldn't be calling him he wouldn't even acknowledged how he fucks up serval times etc
More Injustice content please 🤩
The whole bullshit argument that Superman doesn't act like Superman is so lame. It's the Multiverse. In one he's a Nazi. People need to get off the cool-aid.
19:40 It’s an upcoming Titans event that (I think) involves Beast Boy.
My problem with Injustice is with it the comics, it have some moments are decanonized in the main games
(Crane’s Death in the 1st comic, Alfred death, Nightwing death okay that’s one dumb in the comic actually) Zsaz is killed by Damian in the Arkham Asylum in Year one and in comics he is killed by Damian now Nightwing in Year 4 after Zsaz killed Alfred
Holyshit this is a very good video podcast or whatever you call it a video essay? I don't care this is amazing you did a good job!
I 💘it all. You do an excellent job @Comicstorian. Hat's off to you my friend
You did leave a potential ending for Injustice out, Injustice vs Masters of the Universe. It is set in a potential future.
I still like Injustice. What I liked when it started off was an interesting look as Superman steadily going into his evil decline. But then as it went on, it definitely started feeling more like Batman wank. And I like Batman, he's one kf my favourite superheroes. Like what actually once felt like a Superman story, eventually became more of a Batman story
was that Pure Imagination at the begining?
ive heard that song in the surface laptop studio trailer