It's way more fun to find people like the people in this video, meet them have them measure you and get a custom bike the way you like it in Reynolds 853 than it is to buy a carbon bike from a bike store IMO. Of course I would still buy a steel bike.
I have a Argos steel hybrid in the garage. Over Christmas I stripped the parts of it and converted it to a gravel bike. I must say it's a lovely bike to ride both on and off road even compared to my top end road bike. It simply absorbs and dissipates resonance from the road with ease. Geometry is nice..... Winner winner Great winter bike.... Great gravel bike...... And cheap too
Definitely. I'm about to build my ideal bike - a steel frame with up-to-date components. I made the transition from steel to aluminium and the result was horrendous: the ride was harsher, and zero compliance meant the bicycle bounced at the smallest road imperfection. Even with Mavic wheels and Continental tyres, both of which are known for their comfort. I can't afford GOOD carbon fibre, so the answer is yes - I'd still buy a steel bike. And I will.
There is misconception in this video about Youngs modulus and tensile strenght. What they are describing as youngs modulus(amount of force needed to permanently bend material) is called yield strenght and youngs modulus is perhaps better described as rigidity characteristics of material, specifically how much force is needed for specific area of material to deform it elastically in certain amount of distance. Iron and spring steel have basically same youngs modulus but yield strenght is very different because iron bends plastically with far less force than spring steel.
Came looking for this comment. Additionally, steel having a higher youngs modulus actually makes it stiffer if the shapes were the same. In the video, the guy also said you need more aluminum to achieve the same strength, and the extra material is what makes it stiffer. This is somewhat misleading, and depends what you mean by "more". I believe to achieve the same strength as steel, you can use less aluminum by weight, but the aluminum needs to be formed in larger diameter tubes to get the same strength, and the larger tubes are stiffer. Steel being formed in smaller diameter tubes usually weigh more than aluminum, but since the diameter is smaller, it's less stiff, and can absorb vibration better
As you say, anything between iron and the strongest steel have practically the same stiffness modulus. But interestingly all the metals used for bicycles have practically the same specific stiffness (dividing stiffness by density), which is part of the reason why there isn't a large difference in finished frame weights.
Yes there unfortunately is a lot of inaccurate or even plain wrong information in this video when it comes to the material properties part. I also suspect that the butted ends are for compensating for builders destroying the effects of heat treatment by soldering or welding.
For high level performance, steel may be outdated. But for the majority of road cyclists, steel is a great material. I’ve passed a lot of carbon fiber Treks on my Ritchey Road Logic. I know several cyclists with steel frame bikes that are under 18 pounds. Being a Clydesdale rider, 240 lbs, my Ritchey is still under 20lbs. I’ve tried a couple carbon fiber bikes. For all the talk about carbon being comfortable, the Ritchey is hands down the smoothest bike I’ve ever experienced. I’ll be riding that bike for decades.
Oh is that so? Glad to know what I shouldn't be worrying about! But seriously, if I want to hammer with a group because that's what I WANT to do then I guess I will think about performance. Worry? no. But yeah a steel bike built up well and light, ridden by the right person, will be able to hang with most riders. @@Andy_ATB
And the fact is that no cyclists with their "high level performance bikes," aka carbon fiber bikes, have been able to accomplish a Triple Crown Victory. Only two Triple Crown Victories in cycling history using steel bikes.
I'm 47 and ride a steel endurance bike. for me it's all about comfort and minimizing trauma to my body, not speed and minimizing weight. I see so many people on the road on carbon fiber racing frames and it's obvious from their level of riding ability that they're not actually doing races.
@@petesharp3640 The point is that worrying about performance can be quite costly and is often not worth it. Sometimes people will spend considerably more money on lighter components when in reality they'd be better off improving their performance on the bike by adjusting their diet or doing things to increase their overall fitness. I see a lot of people on the road with high end expensive carbon fiber bikes that I know I can ride circles around all day long on my heavier, less expensive steel bike. A fancy high end super bike doesn't mean jack if your fitness or riding ability is poor.
I’ve been riding a steel road bike for 6 months now (a gap of 25 years since I last owned a steel bike). It’s so much fun, and has more personality than any other bike I have ridden.
At 60 yo, I still ride my steel frame road bike from the 80's. The pleasure I get from dropping riders, who are half my age and who are riding the latest and greatest carbon fiber bikes, is awesome.
I have an old Marukin M-420 road bike that I purchased brand new in 1986. Its frame is made if Ishiwata ChroMo. I just had it refurbished again, and I'm LOVING IT! I'll keep that bike till I die. Oh, when I was younger, I used to get off dropping guys on their Cannondales... 😁😁
Still rocking my Ritchey Road Logic for long rides. Had a Colnago Master X-Light along my journey too. I'm not an old guy shaking my fist at the clouds either, everyone should have a steel bike in their N+1 search.
Last year I put 2000 miles on a Chumba Terlingua that I’d purchased cheap because it cracked at the bottom bracket. It was an easy fix with a welder and some paint. I used it in two local gravel races, then fitted road tires and did the Tour of the Moon on it. Honestly, the most versatile bike I own and one that I can actually repair if the frame gets damaged. If you throw out the “weight is the only thing that matters” mindset, steel suddenly becomes the ideal frame material for a host of reasons: ride quality, cost, reliability and repair ability.
And in many riders' cases (mine anyway), rider weight is much more of an issue than the bike's weight! I could lose more weight than a bike could weigh.
For my custom made travel bike I chose steel because when the frame would break somewhere in the Himalaya mountains any car mechanic or construction worker could weld/fix it. Carbon and alu you'd just throw away. My bike has literally travelled around the world (42 countries), it has its 30th birthday in February. I will buy it a bottle of grease for a present ...
@@sorenludwig3978 Steel certainly does suffer from fatigue but you have to stress it far more and for longer than other materials to see any signs of it.
I'm mostly riding a steel Mercian these days. It's quiet, rugged, and the performance is good enough for a recreational cyclist. I think steel is the best choice for most cyclists who aren't competitively racing.
I was much more willing to ride steel/titanium 10yrs ago when I was racing at a high level than today. Outside of the recyclability, carbon is more important to me now than it ever was. I don't care about the aerodynamic gains that happen to be there anyway. The ride quality is better and that's the most important thing for sitting on a bike
@WerdnaLiten everyone enjoys things differently. I for one, enjoy riding more when I'm not getting hammered by the road but also have a stiff bike at the same time.
Second hand steel bikes can be super cheap if you know what you're looking for. I picked up a sweet little Graham Weigh in Reynolds 853 with a full Campagnolo (Avanti) gruppo for the ludicrous price of £130 recently. Even after I've upgraded it to full Record 9 speed and sold the Avanti bits I'll still only be into it for about £300. Ride quality is just sublime :-)
I dont think the Video quite gets to the heart of why steel is such a good material for bikes, particularly for non-performance use, and the history and custom culture around the specialist market
Alex is not the right person for that video, nor any of the other GCN presenters either really! John Cannings might know a bit more! I started racing on a steel frame 1974 as it was the only material available1 Had a few custom made frames , sadly no more!
Having started racing in the 70's, before any of the presenters were born, steel was all that was available. You rode the winter months on a fixed wheel with saddlebag, usually and old road bike, down graded to winter bike! But always steel!
My steel bianchi is a beast. Its gotten me through along of long rides over the years. I would like to look at some other materials for perhaps some racing but having the driverrain comparable to newer bikes in terms of range I don't see how that bike would ever fall out of being my flagship.
One trend that was perhaps overlooked in the discussion of the future for steel bikes, was the growth of gravel bikes and adventure riding. While perhaps the future for steel in high performance road bikes is limited, I believe that the demands for rugged, comfortable and affordable frames for gravel riding favor steel as a material, especially for riders who want or need a bespoke frame. In my case for example, I have relatively long legs and short torso. I find that most factory frames don't fit my body proportions. My 2 custom steel gravel bikes are the most comfortable bikes I've ever owned --- and in over 60 years I've owned a lot of bikes,
Steel bikes comfortable because of weight. Inertia is a key. Try to load your AL bike with bikepacking and you would make it comfy. And opposite - light road bike is not comfortable.
My first serious road bike was a custom steel frame 52 years ago from Leader Cycles, Croydon. My most recent custom bike this past year is a gravel frame from Valentine Bikes, Asheville. Compared to the other bikes I have, it’s the best handling most comfortable of them all.
Recently bought a chromoly Transition TransAm hard tail mtb. First steel framed bike I've owned since buying my Raleigh Team 753 road bike in 1989 (loved that bicycle). I'm very pleased with it - how it feels while riding, its robustness, and yes, as long as I avoid getting it wet and resulting rust, it will probably last me the rest of my life (I'm 71, been riding bikes for some 60 years). I recently gave my Raleigh road bike to my grandson - he and the bike are the same age. He loves the thing - kind of a trendy retro icon for him and his friends. As to whether steel will ever make a comeback in being mass produced, it's my hope that its relatively cheaper cost will make it appealing to the non-racing cycling crowd, and that the big brands will again offer steel bicycles. Mate a steel frame with a good quality group set and wheels, and you've still got a great bike.
I have 6 steel bikes; road, gravel, SS, mtb. They’re heavier for sure but ride feel is totally different. Something that stands out if you’re riding back to back 200km days bike packing. Equally more robust and dependable for such rides. Mtb wise they’re more comfortable… I can’t explain it more than that. I’m riding for the enjoyment of riding, not looking to be the fastest or racing, then I’d care more about weight etc 🥳
In November I bought a Ritchey Road Logic. Steel frame. Carbon fork. Bought Campagnolo Chorus groupset with rim brakes. All external cables. Aluminum wheels. I'm almost done building it up. Can't wait for that first ride. I do have one carbon fiber road bike, a Look 585. Another steel bike a Rivendell all rounder from 1994, and a steel Tommaso from around 1988. I do like the ride of the Look. Carbon fiber from around 2009.
Too bad your generation took to road cycling with a "Made in China" mentality thinking everything can be made by C.A.D....once there was a time when Campagnolo, hand-built wheels and handmade Italian frames used to be a thing. Have fun with that $10K Chinese bike.
Yes, I would still buy a steel bike, if I had too. Seems the bike I purchased in April of 1980, Fuji S12S, SN FK924681 is still going strong though, so to answer the other question, yes, steel can be for life. I originally bought it to get around my college campus, fun, and exercise. Long rides on the weekend, shorter ones during the week after classes. Over the years, I have replaced components as they wear out, except the seat, I bought that because I thought it would be more comfortable than the leather seat, which I still have, and it is. According to my Garmin, I put almost 2,000 miles on this past year, and about 2,200 last year. I think around 1,800 the year before. Work and weather play into how many miles I'm able to enjoy. I have a recent photo, but I do not know how to add it here. Other than replacing parts, I have not "restored" or done anything else to the bike. I do hose it down after a ride with water, if needed, but I do not go crazy cleaning it or anything.
I've had 3 steel bikes and still own 2. Wish I still had the 3rd if I'm honest. Steel frames feel warm to ride, my mtb is so smooth compared to my other aluminium ones. It's just a much nicer ride. Same with my gravel bike. I'd love to ride / own something made of 953 at some point
Most bike channels do comparisons of bike frame materials (e.g. steel, titanium, aluminium, carbon) but overlook the fact that if you are buying a high end steel or titanium bike, most likely it is being built today (2023) as a custom geometry, with choice of components and tubesets. Even if the geometry is only slightly different from stock, it can still make a palpable difference to the rider. This is why I prefer steel over carbon. The best fit and handling is more important than having the stiffest or lightest material bike frame. There are many custom bike builders building MODERN design steel bikes for $7k-$10K and for these buyers, weight or pro brand means nothing, as they understand why they don't want a mass-produced bike. What's more, the selection of tubes, dropouts etc. and tools continues to improve. For all of these reasons, steel bikes are not irrelevant and won't be for sometime.
Currently restoring a 1949 Claud Butler steel bike, will be my first taste of steel once done. Looking forward to feeling the ride quality and the characteristics of it, especially after owning and riding more modern aluminium and carbon bikes where the comfort comes from super wide supple tubeless tyres.
I've got what might be one of the last hand-built Claud Butler frames, a steel MTB built bigger than my size. A bit stiff for the time, rough now, but consistent to control. Nice ride. A previous rider bent the rear derailleur and hanger over 50 degrees... slowly bent it back and all good. Last time it was in a bike shop the kid on the desk said "we managed to do the work, but next time it would be easier just to buy a new bike"... to which the owner of the shop leans around the corner and shouts "if you're getting ride of it I'll buy it" - maybe a bit of a sign considering all the other bikes he had the choice of.
I have a pair of custom made steel frames (and a bunch of others). They fit my body and their purpose perfectly. I can’t get this level of fit and customization in any other material except Ti (and that comes at a serious price).
Steel frames would probably still be the standard for affordable bikes if it weren't cheaper for the industry to mass produce and easier to mass market aluminium frames.
Ultra cheap alloy bikes sometimes come with a steel fork because alloy would be too stiff, and carbon is more expensive. Steel as a material once processed ready for tubing is still a bit more expensive than aluminium. There are a couple of small factors that add up to alloy frames being cheaper to produce.
I had a custom steel frame set made for me recently by DeKerf Cycles and it was a great experience. Custom geometry, paint, parts selection, etc. It was a pleasure and I didn't want the process to stop! Definitely a great way to go if you imagine yourself buying something of quality and keeping it for a long time! The bike feels amazing to ride, just as fast as anything else I've ever had and it is super comfortable.
I bought a steel bike last year. A Bombtrack Hook EXT. gravel bike. It’s great, I like it. I wouldn’t mind a steel road bike now.
21 день тому+1
I'm willing to bet that, considering the scarcity of more and more materials and the environmental cost to make carbon fiber and aluminium bicycles, steel frames will make a come back.
Steel bikes are for regular people...don't be a cycling snob...There are steel bikes over 100 years old, and still working. Carbon fiber? Not so much seems they have a much shorter life, and quickly obsolete... .02😎
doesn't have a lifecycle limit due to fatigue - how many of today's carbon bikes will be ridden 40-50 years from now? you can still rock a steel bike from the 70s.
Yes, love steel bikes. I've so far build two. One vintage Bianchi from early 90's and last year I built a modern endurance rim brake with a SRAM Rival groupset. This winter, I'm using a old steel frameset (stripping + repainting) to be my indoor trainer.
I own two steel bikes, one a custom road/gravel/endurance frame from Vetta (Padova) and the other a Salsa Fargo. Perfect bikes for each purpose. Then I have my titanium foldable from Vello. Each has its use and I am super happy with each!
Plenty on the 2nd hand market. As the builder says the strength comfort and longevity are massive plus factors . Plus can be repaired more easily or added braze on's required etc. both my road bikes are 531 and 20 years old plus .
I have a Bianchi Boron steel bike (extra strong steel alloy including carbon) - built in 1998 with carbon forks based on the Mega Pro XL bike used by Marco Pantani
Steel is real and modern! I just built my own frame on a workshop at bigforrest frameworks. Modern Components, Discbreak. Smooth riding and very fast!😁
Steel's Young's modulus is about 3 times of aluminum's. Steel is stiffer than aluminum. Steel's fatigue limit is almost non-existent. The material characteristics allow the frame to flex around and no worries. However, when aluminum meets the fatigue limit, it will crack (fail). The aluminum frame design has to focus on being stiff to decrease the risk of failing.
Steel is not a metal, it's an iron alloy - because it contains carbon. This is why we call aluminium bikes ALLOY frame - because they contain silicium. Stop this madness of calling steel a metal - everyone from engineers to material scientists propogate this nonsense 😅
Steel frame is perfect for commuter bike. It’s comfortable, durable, affordable, practical and most importantly, stylish. I wear suits in office and steel frame blends really well with the fashion. It can even carry heavy attachments such as a child seat. In terms of versatility, steel frame is truly the one bike to rule them all. Steel frame was my choice for the first bike I’m still using and I’d happily recommend the same to anyone interested in cycling!
Steel frames are the most practical for the same reasons that a Toyota is more practical than a Ferrari. Marginal gains in performance come at the expense of everything else. I will say, though, it's a lot easier to find an affordable aluminum bike when buying new compared to buying steel.
@@veganpotterthevegando that then, I wouldn't trust used carbon when I don't know what's happened to it. Not sure how you could look at something like a Ritte Phantom and go "yeah I'll have a 105 equipped Giant TCR with a load of wear instead".
I love a steel commuter, especially old 90s mtbs with rack mounts. The only minor issue is rust if you ride it through winter. You have to stay on top of the rust proofing.
Carbon bikes are irrelevant to me. A bike should have a steel frame, it has to be italian and no shitty gears from Usa or Japan, Campagnolo only for me. That's a bike.
Very sensible, down to earth comments on this video. You could nuance it a bit by saying that any of the common frame materials (steel, aluminum, carbon, titanium) can be made to give a wide range of desired ride quality depending on how it is used by the frame builder.
Exactly. Then it boils down to price, availability, etc. Just bought a secondhand titanium bicycle that I can't wait to see how the frame feels when riding. I wanted a titanium frame because of its durability. Don't have to worry about scratching the paint or having it rust either.
I have 4 bikes, all steel frames. I’m curious about the other frame materials, especially carbon, since they’re so popular now. But i love the look of the classic steel frame with rim brakes and thin wheels. They look fast and light, whereas the modern carbon road bike looks so heavy and clumsy. I know the modern carbon bikes are better in most ways, but it feels good to be riding something beautiful.
Oh dear. I'm afraid Paul has got his terms confused. What Paul called "Youngs modulus" is actually the yield strength (ie when further loading produces permanent deformation). "Youngs modulus" is actually the measure of how much a material deforms as a load is applied within the elastic limit (another name for yield strength). Putting the scientific nerdiness aside, he is quite right that custom bike frames are almost exclusively steel. I ride steel, not because I particularly like it, but because I'm old (and hopefully going to get older) and my hip flexibility is no longer sufficient to get a leg over the saddle as you need to for a cross bar bike. So I need a step through. I dearly wish for a lighter bike (I live in a hilly area) but with this "leg over" limitation aluminium frames are not that much lighter and other materials not realistically available. I did reach out to a Ti frame builder but got no response. I blame the UCI. If it didn't insist on a top tube cross bar we might well have something like the Giant MCR (I think I got that right?) or a road version of the Lotus bike that we could enjoy. Damn the UCI!
Excellent, and one of the most technically interesting videos on GCN. I’ve owned several aluminum, titanium, and carbon bikes, but never a steel bike (other than a Schwinn Jaguar bike as a kid). Being a recreational rider rather than a racer, this video causes me to wish for a steel bike rather than having my high-end carbon bike.
Steel doesn't need to make a comeback (its always been here) and with double butted tubes nowadays its weight is not as prohibitive as it may have seen before. I have never been interested in carbon fiber as a frame material. After being on aluminum my whole life - I wouldn't have minded a modern steel frame. However, I do have a Titanium bike ATM, (I got a great price and it seems to be the best of all worlds). But I'd never count steel out as a great frame material.
I love steel. As to weight, my steel Mondonico with Campagnolo Nucleon wheels and Super Record weighed in at 8kg in the early 2000s. And that was the Futura Leggero, the heaviest model he made. I’ve read that the Spirit model was 500g lighter. So you know, I am not a steel snob - I have an S-Works Diverge and I love it… but I hate that it’s disposable. I’ve already worn one of them out. It was a 2015 “S-Works” Diverge (they didn’t label them S-Works that year, but it came with all S-Works parts including cranks, bars, stem, and seat post were S-Works.). That first Diverge died when the dropouts dropped out. That will never happen to a steel frame.
Back in the 70s I had a Reynolds 530 double butted steel tube frame. It was like a jump into hyperspace, after my old Schwinn. Loved it. Miss it. Good times!!!
I got back into cycling in 2023 after years of being an avid motorcyclist, and I chose a Soma Rush in Tange Prestige steel (comparable to Reynolds 631) -- beautiful bike and rides exactly as well as I want on a 1.75 mile commute with some pretty gnarly urban pavement! I'm not against alloy, carbon, nor titanium, for sure, but for my needs a good simple steel frame fits better than anything else
As a rider of a carbon bike for the last nine years, this winter I decided to ride my old steel bike that had been left unloved in my shed for the past thirty fives years plus, and only swapping the twenty seven wheels for some modern alloy seven hundred wheels and chain.... and yes the last two months have been great despite it being double the weight of my carbon bike plus higher gearing, then Boxing Day I decided to ride my carbon road bike, and it felt incredibly harder on the rider feel back on my old body, but still faster by only five minutes per hour on a three hour winter ride... so a modern steel bike seems like the future, maybe ?
Living in places that salt the road a lot in the winter, steel isn't something I wanna ride in the winter. Carbon, titanium or stainless steel are the only frame materials I want for that
The greatest bonus of 531 is it can be 'cold set'. this means the rear triangle could be widened from 126mm to 130mm. 753 couldn't. Bend it too much and it cracked. Early 120mm OLN frames could be taken out to 126mm.
For me, fit comes first, and I can get a steel frame made to my dimensions and made to the flex my joints prefer. Plus, it’s easier to get customizations like built-in lighting and racks. Finally, after owning all kinds of forks, I still like the feel of tapered steel blades the best.
I had a vintage 1982 Olmo Competition and that bike was so nice to ride. It was so buttery smooth. It led me to get a custom steel Speedvagen which too rides so nicely. Aside from the weight steel frames feel smoother than my carbon bikes. It's a different feeling which is more grounded than carbon bikes that seem to float across the road. For a nice cruising or commuting bike, steel is the way to go. Plus, it takes it back to fine craftsmanship of the past. I've cycled through many carbon bikes but my steel Speedvagen is my one forever bike.
Steel is still being used to build bike frames that fulfill a wide niche. Ive owned the following bikes. Canyon endurace carbon, very nice. Cube aluminium cyclocross bike, exellent fit for purpose. My favourite bikes in no particular order are, Fairlight Strael mk3, Genesis croix de fer, Longstaff compact audax. At 63 years and 5kg too heavy i cant cut it anymore, but my steel bikes are sublime even if theyre 1 kg heavier frameset. Its the design, spec and build that determine a bikes fitness for purpose
I still see tons of those 70s 10 speeds (2X5 not 1X10, lol} around Boston, which is almost as damp as the UK. I think rust is the only advantage Ti has.
The ride quality of a very well made steel frame should never be underestimated. Personally, if you go steel, it has to be a good one, otherwise it sort of misses the point. My custom made #ronecycles Columbus Spirit HSS frame is not only modern (yet rim brakes) but a classic steel ride. And in Yeti turquoise, so a total one off. Well worth the investment and will probably outlive me!
Interesting subject and video. I own a steel Shand Stooshie in gravel bike spec, Zipp 303s wheels, 38mm tubeless tyres Di2 GRX and Rockshox gravel 40mm travel fork. Think this gives me the best combination of modern technology along with the traditional bike heritage of the bike frame.
I remember reading a Chinese statistic perhaps back in 2013 or 2014 that over 95% of the bikes and frames China exports were steel and at the time it was the only material that could be robot welded. I also watched a video where one man was loading 3 welding robot jigs in sequence. That one man must have manufactured 100s of steel frames per day. When you look at Argos, Halfords, Sports Direct, Ebay, Decathlon and Amazon which are huge sellers of bikes in the UK most of the cheaper models are steel especially children's bikes. However in China, Asia, Africa etc I'm sure its skewed more towards steel than that. It's only really performance lightweight bikes where steel is just an option. So seems strange to debate about steel being irrelevant when it actually completely monopolises the bike industry pretty much by volume. Surely carbon fibre or titanium are such niche materials they are the materials you could say are irrelevant as such a tiny percentage of cyclists in the world use those materials. I'm not sure I've ever actually seen a titanium bike locally. 99.9% of bikes I see are steel or aluminium.
I just bought a Ritchey Outback. Sweet ride, looks great - everybody who sees it asks about it - I love it. I have 10 road bikes in my garage - one is carbon, two are titanium, one is aluminium, the rest are steel.
Being an older guy. I love the sleek thin lines of a Steel Bicycle. As far as ride quality goes in todays day and age. Plus Tubless tires. Carbons and Aluminum frame ride quality can be very good. But as a frame in its own. The springy flex of a steel frame is hard to beat. Owning all those materials in bicycle frames. I still love my Steels the most.
I love steel bikes and titanium, ally to I’ve owned carbon bikes and no longer own any.. love the feel and ride of steel and titanium.. ally CAAD10 is more rigid for sure. Just my opinion 😊 Pete
This guy knows his stuff. Great interview. I'd love a custom built steel frame one day with the best steel. Being able to repair your frame is of utmost importance. I hate that other types of frames are basically throwaways.
I own a steel gravel bike and would always go back for another steel bike for such type of cycling. Yes its heavier than Carbon but it can handle the „abuse“ better than a carbon frame. Plus it flexes a bit more and adds comfort.
I've just completely overhauled my 34 year old Claud Butler Dalesman (off-the-peg Reynolds 531 tourer)... it rides as well as the day I bought it, and I see no reason why it shouldn't go on for an other 34 years+. That's value for money!
We had steel frame single gear bicycles in the army in the summer months. Those bicycles took a real beating, every year new group of riders abusing them and not treating them "kindly" because obviusly nobody cared about them because they didn't own them. Actually if you would get the bicycle to fail, that would be a relief because in that case you skip the march and be transported to the destination on a truck so people obviously were kind of trying to get them to fail. Still these bicycles lasted for decades of that hard use of all kinds of people carrying heavy amount of gear (tens of kilos) and throwing them in the ditch in drills, riding them in all possible terain. Funny thing is that when we were riding these slow beasts for like 70km with 30kg of gear on, instructor drove with a modern mountain bike that had gears and all his personal stuff came in a car 😂
I have a steel and titanium hardtail mountain bike and I have a steel all-road bike and steel gravel bike. The only carbon bike I have is my full suspension mountain bike. Steel is so much better and lasts a long time! BMX freestyle bikes are made of steel (4130 Chromoly for the good ones) because it is the most durable material to build frames from.
2:20 building Colnago Master Olympics right there with Columbus Gilco designed tubes and straight Precisa forks, the Cady's of cycling. Here's a teaser of it's wonderfull paintbrushes, ua-cam.com/video/Fo8noPWSc5U/v-deo.html and some Spinergy's from back in the '90s. Greets from Belgium! Simon
man & girl go out to drive under moonlight. they stop at on at a side of road. he turn to his girl and say: "baby, i love you very much" "what is it honey?" "our car is broken down. i think the engine is broken, ill walk and get some more fuel." "ok. ill stay here and look after our stereo. there have been news report of steres being stolen." "good idea. keep the doors locked no matter what. i love you sweaty" so the guy left to get full for the car. after two hours the girl say "where is my baby, he was supposed to be back by now". then the girl here a scratching sound and a voice say "LET ME IN" the girl doesn't do it and then after a while she goes to sleep. the next morning she wakes up and finds her boyfriend still not there. she gets out to check and man door hand hook car door.
For 95% of journeys I use a 1990s fully rigid 26 inch wheel MTB with v brakes, a single sprocket at the back and a rack at the front for hauling. It's beautiful I love it. So simple, so solid, so enjoyable to ride. I don't want anything else.
I refurbed an old steel frame road bike as my winter bike, it's great to ride, definitely heavier and slower but when the Spring comes and I so enjoy the carbon fibre. Vive la difference!
Yes, but……. The factors that go into a good frame have to apply to steel too. I bought a 2015 Motobecane gran premio of Reynolds 725. A lugged beauty. Trad geometry. It was relatively heavy and lacked enough rigidity. I never fell in love with it. A bit of a slug. I noticed that the seat stays were very delicately bonded to the seat tube, for beauty’s sake I guess. That and other things I should’ve looked at. The builder matters. Do your homework on the specific frame you want.
I've had a Chas Roberts MTB for 32 years and a Dave Lloyd triathlon bike for 30 years; it wasn't until 3 or 4 years ago that I realised they're Chas & Dave...
I see many parallels btwn steel bikes and vinyl records. We're entering into the 'record collecting' phase for steel bikes right now. Steel frames are still being made, however, it's more of a niche in the industry.. Equivelent to record companies pressing vinyl during the Compact Disc era of music. There are still people out there who want steel frames, but the greater industry has moved in a different direction. Which leads me to believe that steel frames, like vinyl records, will never fully go away. There is a demand at the moment for classic steel frames from the 70s, 80s, & 90s and no shortage of forgotten, discarded, or storage bound frames and parts to be discovered, recycled and resuscitated by a new generation of cyclists (record collectors). Purists looking for the undeniable look and feel of steel are much like the DJs and music nerds who yearned for the sound and feel of vinyl, eventually leading to music industry (major and independent lables) returning to vinyl production. All of that to say.. I see a resurgence of steel frame production in the not too distant future. 😎🤙🏼
Coming from a carbon bike, I'm now on a bespoke steel bike and there is no chance I will be back to a carbon bike. My steel bike is faster, safer, more robust, far more comfortable, feels so good to ride, easier to work with and looks so so good. I also get far less fatigue after long rides or pretty intense rides or races (I do principaly hill climb amateur races). I believe the most important thing when you are on the way to get a steel bike is to find a great builder that has a good knowledge on bike fiting and bike geometry that can build you a bike that meets your specific needs. It's a pretty complex matter to get it right and not every steel bikes are equal, far from it and there is a lot of parameters to deal with in order to fine tune a steel bike. I would also strongly avoid disk brake steel bikes. Making a steel frame for disk brake will inevitably compomise the ride quality and efficiency of the frame.
I own a Norco Search Steel bike made from a Reynolds 725s for AUD$2,000. I chose it because of the 'steel is real' ethos, great blue paint, but most of all, the superb value-for-money components (it came with GRX 20 speed groupset, hydraulic disc brakes, super light wtb rims). In Australia, for $2k, you'd get an aluminium/carbon with entry level Claris, Sora components or Microshift. I've since done a 100k Brisbane to Gold Coast and commute 3 days a week, plus weekend rides. I've also added some aero Pro-lite rims and can match carbon-led pelotons around the Brisbane areas. Its range of gears are superb and I highly recommend the ride.
Young’s modulus isn’t the yield strength like the interviewee says, where the material undergoes plastic deformation beyond that point (even that is an approximate definition)
I restored my 1998, 4130 Chrome-moly Gary Fisher mountain bike. I use it to commute into work occasionally, because it has rack mounts. My other bikes don't have rack mounts. My local multi-use path is a bit rough, and I have to say, the 2" slicks, steel frame and primitive Rockshox DART fork (not original) make the path feel like freshly paved asphalt. Well, almost! The point is, I purchased the Gary Fisher 25 years ago-and it is still a very serviceable, enjoyable bike. If you're not racing, a high-quality steel bike makes sense. A high-quality steel bike can easily last 20+ years. I'm currently looking at a Ribble Gravel 725, Norco Search, and a Niner SIR 9. Two to three thousand dollars for a bike which does not need to be replaced in a few years is really not a lot of money. To be fair, my 12 year old aluminum Synapse is still going strong. But steel does a better job at killing the "buzz" you can feel on a bike, in my opinion.
I have owned, raced and disposed of several carbon and aluminum bicycles, but I still ride my 40 year old Miyata, and also own two fabulous steel bikes made by Fairlight. I do 'get it' however, that steel bikes these days are either department store junk or handmade beauties like my Strael or the myriad of well-known (e.g. Ritchey) steel manufacturers in the market. There is plenty of demand for these, but from enthusiasts of the genre...not the high-status owners of top carbon frames or the aluminum bikes that mostly I don't understand why. Titanium continues a niche of it's own
Steel is cool. If you want to buy a bike made out of steel, awesome. Whatever gets you on a bike. I ride up mountains all the time. While I’m not a weight weenie, I’m also not looking to intentionally handicap myself. My carbon road bike is 19lbs, in a size 58. What would a comparable steel bike weigh, I wonder?
Look at a Ritchey Road Logic, triple butted tubes that are changed to match each size rather than being the same across all sizes. I've seen large size frame brake get to 17ish lbs and you'd be in the 18lbs range with a disc model without breaking the bank even without breaking the bank. My large size Ritchey Swiss Cross disc is just under 20lbs and I'm not even being a weight weenie and riding 38c tires and a Brooks saddle which is heavy. I love riding the Swiss Cross so much I sold my Titanium Curve Belgie and I'm going to get a Road Logic.
My Reynolds 853 fixie is 17 pounds without using weight weenie parts. Put a nice 40/18 gearing on it, it will easily gap your heavy carbon bike as a climbing bike IMO.
@@___Bebo___ true, I rode my single speed up to Katoomba in NSW, Australia over taking more than a few carbon riders who were shocked that I did it on a steel MTB frame converted SS and I'd already done 100km to get there.
I've found my full rigid steel bike is more comfortable than my Aluminium Full Sus. Same wheels n tires, same saddle but the steel gave a more comfortable ride. Witchcraft I call it...
Got a custom made steel gravel bike from Project 12 bikes in the Netherlands and I love it. I am one of the people who ride for pleasure and fitness but I do follow my performance and I don't really notice the pound or two greater weight vs. carbon.
Had my (custom) winter and race Brian Rourkes since the mid 90’s, 531c and 653 respectively. I look like a real old timer (despite being a mere 48) when I’m out but have seen no reason to change as I don’t think anything could be considered an upgrade!
Would you still buy a steel bike? Let us know in the comments 👇
I just did. Ritchey outback
It's way more fun to find people like the people in this video, meet them have them measure you and get a custom bike the way you like it in Reynolds 853 than it is to buy a carbon bike from a bike store IMO. Of course I would still buy a steel bike.
I have a Argos steel hybrid in the garage.
Over Christmas I stripped the parts of it and converted it to a gravel bike.
I must say it's a lovely bike to ride both on and off road even compared to my top end road bike.
It simply absorbs and dissipates resonance from the road with ease.
Geometry is nice..... Winner winner
Great winter bike....
Great gravel bike......
And cheap too
Definitely. I'm about to build my ideal bike - a steel frame with up-to-date components. I made the transition from steel to aluminium and the result was horrendous: the ride was harsher, and zero compliance meant the bicycle bounced at the smallest road imperfection. Even with Mavic wheels and Continental tyres, both of which are known for their comfort. I can't afford GOOD carbon fibre, so the answer is yes - I'd still buy a steel bike. And I will.
Absolutely. I have a Genesis Equilibrium with Reynolds 725 tubing. Superb ride.
Forever real, recycleable and sustainable. Still fast, handmade, lovely to ride, doesn't go to landfill...so many pluses!!!
there is something so special about the feel of riding a steel bike!
The sustainability aspect is a good reason why I could see steel making more of a comeback
A carbon frame is also sustainable: You burn a tree to get carbon. And at the end of the frame's life you bury itin the ground: ashes to ashes ... ;-)
@@Jacob99174hi-tens steel is… lol!
Rusts.
There is misconception in this video about Youngs modulus and tensile strenght. What they are describing as youngs modulus(amount of force needed to permanently bend material) is called yield strenght and youngs modulus is perhaps better described as rigidity characteristics of material, specifically how much force is needed for specific area of material to deform it elastically in certain amount of distance. Iron and spring steel have basically same youngs modulus but yield strenght is very different because iron bends plastically with far less force than spring steel.
Was looking for that comment, I agree with you
Came looking for this comment. Additionally, steel having a higher youngs modulus actually makes it stiffer if the shapes were the same. In the video, the guy also said you need more aluminum to achieve the same strength, and the extra material is what makes it stiffer. This is somewhat misleading, and depends what you mean by "more". I believe to achieve the same strength as steel, you can use less aluminum by weight, but the aluminum needs to be formed in larger diameter tubes to get the same strength, and the larger tubes are stiffer. Steel being formed in smaller diameter tubes usually weigh more than aluminum, but since the diameter is smaller, it's less stiff, and can absorb vibration better
As you say, anything between iron and the strongest steel have practically the same stiffness modulus. But interestingly all the metals used for bicycles have practically the same specific stiffness (dividing stiffness by density), which is part of the reason why there isn't a large difference in finished frame weights.
Also known as elastic deformation VS plastic deformation.
Yes there unfortunately is a lot of inaccurate or even plain wrong information in this video when it comes to the material properties part. I also suspect that the butted ends are for compensating for builders destroying the effects of heat treatment by soldering or welding.
For high level performance, steel may be outdated. But for the majority of road cyclists, steel is a great material. I’ve passed a lot of carbon fiber Treks on my Ritchey Road Logic. I know several cyclists with steel frame bikes that are under 18 pounds. Being a Clydesdale rider, 240 lbs, my Ritchey is still under 20lbs. I’ve tried a couple carbon fiber bikes. For all the talk about carbon being comfortable, the Ritchey is hands down the smoothest bike I’ve ever experienced. I’ll be riding that bike for decades.
Most cyclists shouldn't be worrying about performance.......
Oh is that so? Glad to know what I shouldn't be worrying about! But seriously, if I want to hammer with a group because that's what I WANT to do then I guess I will think about performance. Worry? no. But yeah a steel bike built up well and light, ridden by the right person, will be able to hang with most riders. @@Andy_ATB
And the fact is that no cyclists with their "high level performance bikes," aka carbon fiber bikes, have been able to accomplish a Triple Crown Victory. Only two Triple Crown Victories in cycling history using steel bikes.
I'm 47 and ride a steel endurance bike. for me it's all about comfort and minimizing trauma to my body, not speed and minimizing weight. I see so many people on the road on carbon fiber racing frames and it's obvious from their level of riding ability that they're not actually doing races.
@@petesharp3640 The point is that worrying about performance can be quite costly and is often not worth it. Sometimes people will spend considerably more money on lighter components when in reality they'd be better off improving their performance on the bike by adjusting their diet or doing things to increase their overall fitness. I see a lot of people on the road with high end expensive carbon fiber bikes that I know I can ride circles around all day long on my heavier, less expensive steel bike. A fancy high end super bike doesn't mean jack if your fitness or riding ability is poor.
I’ve been riding a steel road bike for 6 months now (a gap of 25 years since I last owned a steel bike). It’s so much fun, and has more personality than any other bike I have ridden.
At 60 yo, I still ride my steel frame road bike from the 80's. The pleasure I get from dropping riders, who are half my age and who are riding the latest and greatest carbon fiber bikes, is awesome.
I NEVER want to be the old guy with the shaved legs on a $15K carbon gizmo with electric shifters. Since I'm 69 now, I guess I'm locked in.
I have an old Marukin M-420 road bike that I purchased brand new in 1986. Its frame is made if Ishiwata ChroMo. I just had it refurbished again, and I'm LOVING IT! I'll keep that bike till I die. Oh, when I was younger, I used to get off dropping guys on their Cannondales... 😁😁
Still rocking my Ritchey Road Logic for long rides. Had a Colnago Master X-Light along my journey too. I'm not an old guy shaking my fist at the clouds either, everyone should have a steel bike in their N+1 search.
Last year I put 2000 miles on a Chumba Terlingua that I’d purchased cheap because it cracked at the bottom bracket. It was an easy fix with a welder and some paint. I used it in two local gravel races, then fitted road tires and did the Tour of the Moon on it. Honestly, the most versatile bike I own and one that I can actually repair if the frame gets damaged. If you throw out the “weight is the only thing that matters” mindset, steel suddenly becomes the ideal frame material for a host of reasons: ride quality, cost, reliability and repair ability.
And in many riders' cases (mine anyway), rider weight is much more of an issue than the bike's weight! I could lose more weight than a bike could weigh.
For my custom made travel bike I chose steel because when the frame would break somewhere in the Himalaya mountains any car mechanic or construction worker could weld/fix it. Carbon and alu you'd just throw away.
My bike has literally travelled around the world (42 countries), it has its 30th birthday in February. I will buy it a bottle of grease for a present ...
youre steel frame will not break, steel has no fatique and you need realy high forces to crack it.
@@sorenludwig3978 Steel certainly does suffer from fatigue but you have to stress it far more and for longer than other materials to see any signs of it.
Gr8 story
@@sorenludwig3978 steel is only outdone by aluminum for its less than stellar fatigue properties
@@stevegoodfellow3423 steel has worse fatigue properties than everything but aluminum.
My last road bike was Reynolds steel. It was awesome. Highly recommend
I'm mostly riding a steel Mercian these days. It's quiet, rugged, and the performance is good enough for a recreational cyclist. I think steel is the best choice for most cyclists who aren't competitively racing.
I was much more willing to ride steel/titanium 10yrs ago when I was racing at a high level than today. Outside of the recyclability, carbon is more important to me now than it ever was. I don't care about the aerodynamic gains that happen to be there anyway. The ride quality is better and that's the most important thing for sitting on a bike
@@veganpottertheveganride quality is down to frame design, not material.
Agree - too many cyclists want to copy the pros. Why? Just get out and enjoy the ride.....be more like Jack, not Jonas.
@@chetmanley1885 it's both. But carbon allows significantly more design freedom while keeping a bike efficient and comfortable
@WerdnaLiten everyone enjoys things differently. I for one, enjoy riding more when I'm not getting hammered by the road but also have a stiff bike at the same time.
Second hand steel bikes can be super cheap if you know what you're looking for. I picked up a sweet little Graham Weigh in Reynolds 853 with a full Campagnolo (Avanti) gruppo for the ludicrous price of £130 recently. Even after I've upgraded it to full Record 9 speed and sold the Avanti bits I'll still only be into it for about £300. Ride quality is just sublime :-)
Ebay?
I dont think the Video quite gets to the heart of why steel is such a good material for bikes, particularly for non-performance use, and the history and custom culture around the specialist market
Alex is not the right person for that video, nor any of the other GCN presenters either really! John Cannings might know a bit more! I started racing on a steel frame 1974 as it was the only material available1 Had a few custom made frames , sadly no more!
That is a kind way of putting what is wrong with this video.
Having started racing in the 70's, before any of the presenters were born, steel was all that was available. You rode the winter months on a fixed wheel with saddlebag, usually and old road bike, down graded to winter bike! But always steel!
My steel bianchi is a beast. Its gotten me through along of long rides over the years. I would like to look at some other materials for perhaps some racing but having the driverrain comparable to newer bikes in terms of range I don't see how that bike would ever fall out of being my flagship.
One trend that was perhaps overlooked in the discussion of the future for steel bikes, was the growth of gravel bikes and adventure riding. While perhaps the future for steel in high performance road bikes is limited, I believe that the demands for rugged, comfortable and affordable frames for gravel riding favor steel as a material, especially for riders who want or need a bespoke frame. In my case for example, I have relatively long legs and short torso. I find that most factory frames don't fit my body proportions. My 2 custom steel gravel bikes are the most comfortable bikes I've ever owned --- and in over 60 years I've owned a lot of bikes,
Steel bikes comfortable because of weight. Inertia is a key. Try to load your AL bike with bikepacking and you would make it comfy. And opposite - light road bike is not comfortable.
My first serious road bike was a custom steel frame 52 years ago from Leader Cycles, Croydon. My most recent custom bike this past year is a gravel frame from Valentine Bikes, Asheville. Compared to the other bikes I have, it’s the best handling most comfortable of them all.
Recently bought a chromoly Transition TransAm hard tail mtb. First steel framed bike I've owned since buying my Raleigh Team 753 road bike in 1989 (loved that bicycle). I'm very pleased with it - how it feels while riding, its robustness, and yes, as long as I avoid getting it wet and resulting rust, it will probably last me the rest of my life (I'm 71, been riding bikes for some 60 years). I recently gave my Raleigh road bike to my grandson - he and the bike are the same age. He loves the thing - kind of a trendy retro icon for him and his friends. As to whether steel will ever make a comeback in being mass produced, it's my hope that its relatively cheaper cost will make it appealing to the non-racing cycling crowd, and that the big brands will again offer steel bicycles. Mate a steel frame with a good quality group set and wheels, and you've still got a great bike.
I have 6 steel bikes; road, gravel, SS, mtb. They’re heavier for sure but ride feel is totally different. Something that stands out if you’re riding back to back 200km days bike packing. Equally more robust and dependable for such rides. Mtb wise they’re more comfortable… I can’t explain it more than that. I’m riding for the enjoyment of riding, not looking to be the fastest or racing, then I’d care more about weight etc 🥳
In November I bought a Ritchey Road Logic. Steel frame. Carbon fork. Bought Campagnolo Chorus groupset with rim brakes. All external cables. Aluminum wheels. I'm almost done building it up. Can't wait for that first ride. I do have one carbon fiber road bike, a Look 585. Another steel bike a Rivendell all rounder from 1994, and a steel Tommaso from around 1988. I do like the ride of the Look. Carbon fiber from around 2009.
Nope, it’s not 1970 any more.
Too bad your generation took to road cycling with a "Made in China" mentality thinking everything can be made by C.A.D....once there was a time when Campagnolo, hand-built wheels and handmade Italian frames used to be a thing. Have fun with that $10K Chinese bike.
Yes, I would still buy a steel bike, if I had too. Seems the bike I purchased in April of 1980, Fuji S12S, SN FK924681 is still going strong though, so to answer the other question, yes, steel can be for life. I originally bought it to get around my college campus, fun, and exercise. Long rides on the weekend, shorter ones during the week after classes. Over the years, I have replaced components as they wear out, except the seat, I bought that because I thought it would be more comfortable than the leather seat, which I still have, and it is. According to my Garmin, I put almost 2,000 miles on this past year, and about 2,200 last year. I think around 1,800 the year before. Work and weather play into how many miles I'm able to enjoy. I have a recent photo, but I do not know how to add it here. Other than replacing parts, I have not "restored" or done anything else to the bike. I do hose it down after a ride with water, if needed, but I do not go crazy cleaning it or anything.
I've had 3 steel bikes and still own 2. Wish I still had the 3rd if I'm honest. Steel frames feel warm to ride, my mtb is so smooth compared to my other aluminium ones. It's just a much nicer ride. Same with my gravel bike. I'd love to ride / own something made of 953 at some point
Most bike channels do comparisons of bike frame materials (e.g. steel, titanium, aluminium, carbon) but overlook the fact that if you are buying a high end steel or titanium bike, most likely it is being built today (2023) as a custom geometry, with choice of components and tubesets. Even if the geometry is only slightly different from stock, it can still make a palpable difference to the rider. This is why I prefer steel over carbon. The best fit and handling is more important than having the stiffest or lightest material bike frame. There are many custom bike builders building MODERN design steel bikes for $7k-$10K and for these buyers, weight or pro brand means nothing, as they understand why they don't want a mass-produced bike. What's more, the selection of tubes, dropouts etc. and tools continues to improve. For all of these reasons, steel bikes are not irrelevant and won't be for sometime.
Currently restoring a 1949 Claud Butler steel bike, will be my first taste of steel once done. Looking forward to feeling the ride quality and the characteristics of it, especially after owning and riding more modern aluminium and carbon bikes where the comfort comes from super wide supple tubeless tyres.
Depends on the frame. My Domane, a Synapse and others will be a better ride than any steel bike with apples to apples wheels and tires on them.
I've got what might be one of the last hand-built Claud Butler frames, a steel MTB built bigger than my size.
A bit stiff for the time, rough now, but consistent to control. Nice ride.
A previous rider bent the rear derailleur and hanger over 50 degrees... slowly bent it back and all good.
Last time it was in a bike shop the kid on the desk said "we managed to do the work, but next time it would be easier just to buy a new bike"... to which the owner of the shop leans around the corner and shouts "if you're getting ride of it I'll buy it" - maybe a bit of a sign considering all the other bikes he had the choice of.
I have a pair of custom made steel frames (and a bunch of others). They fit my body and their purpose perfectly.
I can’t get this level of fit and customization in any other material except Ti (and that comes at a serious price).
If you can buy a decent 6061 for 125usd frame why not.
Truth is steel is now more expensive because of limited production.
Trouble is mass produced steel frames are rare now hence the price going through the roof
Steel frames would probably still be the standard for affordable bikes if it weren't cheaper for the industry to mass produce and easier to mass market aluminium frames.
Ultra cheap alloy bikes sometimes come with a steel fork because alloy would be too stiff, and carbon is more expensive. Steel as a material once processed ready for tubing is still a bit more expensive than aluminium. There are a couple of small factors that add up to alloy frames being cheaper to produce.
I had a custom steel frame set made for me recently by DeKerf Cycles and it was a great experience. Custom geometry, paint, parts selection, etc. It was a pleasure and I didn't want the process to stop! Definitely a great way to go if you imagine yourself buying something of quality and keeping it for a long time! The bike feels amazing to ride, just as fast as anything else I've ever had and it is super comfortable.
I bought a steel bike last year. A Bombtrack Hook EXT. gravel bike. It’s great, I like it. I wouldn’t mind a steel road bike now.
I'm willing to bet that, considering the scarcity of more and more materials and the environmental cost to make carbon fiber and aluminium bicycles, steel frames will make a come back.
Steel bikes are for regular people...don't be a cycling snob...There are steel bikes over 100 years old, and still working. Carbon fiber? Not so much seems they have a much shorter life, and quickly obsolete... .02😎
doesn't have a lifecycle limit due to fatigue - how many of today's carbon bikes will be ridden 40-50 years from now? you can still rock a steel bike from the 70s.
Yes, love steel bikes. I've so far build two. One vintage Bianchi from early 90's and last year I built a modern endurance rim brake with a SRAM Rival groupset. This winter, I'm using a old steel frameset (stripping + repainting) to be my indoor trainer.
I own two steel bikes, one a custom road/gravel/endurance frame from Vetta (Padova) and the other a Salsa Fargo. Perfect bikes for each purpose. Then I have my titanium foldable from Vello. Each has its use and I am super happy with each!
I have just completed a steel build with a Velo Orange “Pass Hunter” steel frame and fork. Came in at a respectable 21 lbs without pedals.
Plenty on the 2nd hand market. As the builder says the strength comfort and longevity are massive plus factors . Plus can be repaired more easily or added braze on's required etc. both my road bikes are 531 and 20 years old plus .
I have a Bianchi Boron steel bike (extra strong steel alloy including carbon) - built in 1998 with carbon forks based on the Mega Pro XL bike used by Marco Pantani
oh thanks :))
I have 3 steel bikes and love them all. They ride beautifully and feel very different to my carbon and aluminium bikes.
Totally agree
Steel is real and modern! I just built my own frame on a workshop at bigforrest frameworks.
Modern Components, Discbreak. Smooth riding and very fast!😁
Steel's Young's modulus is about 3 times of aluminum's. Steel is stiffer than aluminum. Steel's fatigue limit is almost non-existent. The material characteristics allow the frame to flex around and no worries. However, when aluminum meets the fatigue limit, it will crack (fail). The aluminum frame design has to focus on being stiff to decrease the risk of failing.
Steel is not a metal, it's an iron alloy - because it contains carbon. This is why we call aluminium bikes ALLOY frame - because they contain silicium. Stop this madness of calling steel a metal - everyone from engineers to material scientists propogate this nonsense 😅
Steel frame is perfect for commuter bike. It’s comfortable, durable, affordable, practical and most importantly, stylish. I wear suits in office and steel frame blends really well with the fashion. It can even carry heavy attachments such as a child seat. In terms of versatility, steel frame is truly the one bike to rule them all.
Steel frame was my choice for the first bike I’m still using and I’d happily recommend the same to anyone interested in cycling!
Steel frames are the most practical for the same reasons that a Toyota is more practical than a Ferrari. Marginal gains in performance come at the expense of everything else. I will say, though, it's a lot easier to find an affordable aluminum bike when buying new compared to buying steel.
@@PellagrahI'd rather have an average, used carbon bike than the highest end, new steel bike
@@veganpotterthevegando that then, I wouldn't trust used carbon when I don't know what's happened to it.
Not sure how you could look at something like a Ritte Phantom and go "yeah I'll have a 105 equipped Giant TCR with a load of wear instead".
I love a steel commuter, especially old 90s mtbs with rack mounts. The only minor issue is rust if you ride it through winter. You have to stay on top of the rust proofing.
@@veganpottertheveganI would be careful with used carbon bikes. Older designs are so rigid they rattle my teeth but if they don't, is it damaged?
Still have my old 1986 Reynolds 531 Pro race bike and its really fun to ride compared to my Carbon Colnago and Titanium Gravel bike.
Finally! An informative video from GCN just like the good ol’ days. Thank you ❤
Carbon bikes are irrelevant to me.
A bike should have a steel frame, it has to be italian and no shitty gears from Usa or Japan, Campagnolo only for me.
That's a bike.
I cant seem to find the link to Paul's custom build bikes. Can you share please.
Very sensible, down to earth comments on this video. You could nuance it a bit by saying that any of the common frame materials (steel, aluminum, carbon, titanium) can be made to give a wide range of desired ride quality depending on how it is used by the frame builder.
Exactly. Then it boils down to price, availability, etc. Just bought a secondhand titanium bicycle that I can't wait to see how the frame feels when riding. I wanted a titanium frame because of its durability. Don't have to worry about scratching the paint or having it rust either.
I have 4 bikes, all steel frames. I’m curious about the other frame materials, especially carbon, since they’re so popular now. But i love the look of the classic steel frame with rim brakes and thin wheels. They look fast and light, whereas the modern carbon road bike looks so heavy and clumsy. I know the modern carbon bikes are better in most ways, but it feels good to be riding something beautiful.
carbon has not sould and its not better it all about money
Some of the UK hill climb guys have steel bikes in the 5kg range and they're winning races on them. Steel *is* still for racing
I think steel is being underistimated in how much it influences the fun factor of your bike
Oh dear. I'm afraid Paul has got his terms confused. What Paul called "Youngs modulus" is actually the yield strength (ie when further loading produces permanent deformation). "Youngs modulus" is actually the measure of how much a material deforms as a load is applied within the elastic limit (another name for yield strength).
Putting the scientific nerdiness aside, he is quite right that custom bike frames are almost exclusively steel. I ride steel, not because I particularly like it, but because I'm old (and hopefully going to get older) and my hip flexibility is no longer sufficient to get a leg over the saddle as you need to for a cross bar bike. So I need a step through.
I dearly wish for a lighter bike (I live in a hilly area) but with this "leg over" limitation aluminium frames are not that much lighter and other materials not realistically available. I did reach out to a Ti frame builder but got no response.
I blame the UCI. If it didn't insist on a top tube cross bar we might well have something like the Giant MCR (I think I got that right?) or a road version of the Lotus bike that we could enjoy. Damn the UCI!
Excellent, and one of the most technically interesting videos on GCN. I’ve owned several aluminum, titanium, and carbon bikes, but never a steel bike (other than a Schwinn Jaguar bike as a kid). Being a recreational rider rather than a racer, this video causes me to wish for a steel bike rather than having my high-end carbon bike.
Steel is definitely better than that glued together nonsense you're always going on about.
Steel doesn't need to make a comeback (its always been here) and with double butted tubes nowadays its weight is not as prohibitive as it may have seen before. I have never been interested in carbon fiber as a frame material. After being on aluminum my whole life - I wouldn't have minded a modern steel frame.
However, I do have a Titanium bike ATM, (I got a great price and it seems to be the best of all worlds). But I'd never count steel out as a great frame material.
I'm still using a Colnago Master Olympic from 1999. I would buy another steel frame. Better value and longevity with steel.
I love steel. As to weight, my steel Mondonico with Campagnolo Nucleon wheels and Super Record weighed in at 8kg in the early 2000s. And that was the Futura Leggero, the heaviest model he made. I’ve read that the Spirit model was 500g lighter. So you know, I am not a steel snob - I have an S-Works Diverge and I love it… but I hate that it’s disposable. I’ve already worn one of them out. It was a 2015 “S-Works” Diverge (they didn’t label them S-Works that year, but it came with all S-Works parts including cranks, bars, stem, and seat post were S-Works.). That first Diverge died when the dropouts dropped out. That will never happen to a steel frame.
Can we just stop milking this cow already? All frame materials have their pros and cons.
Back in the 70s I had a Reynolds 530 double butted steel tube frame. It was like a jump into hyperspace, after my old Schwinn. Loved it. Miss it. Good times!!!
I'd rather have a steel bike than carbon - You will still have your bike in 30 years, instead of it being in landfill.
Love steel, my 1990 Steel Giordana is still my favorite bike to ride! As for buying a new Steel bike, I'm saving up for a Pegoretti - my dream bike!
I got back into cycling in 2023 after years of being an avid motorcyclist, and I chose a Soma Rush in Tange Prestige steel (comparable to Reynolds 631) -- beautiful bike and rides exactly as well as I want on a 1.75 mile commute with some pretty gnarly urban pavement! I'm not against alloy, carbon, nor titanium, for sure, but for my needs a good simple steel frame fits better than anything else
As a rider of a carbon bike for the last nine years, this winter I decided to ride my old steel bike that had been left unloved in my shed for the past thirty fives years plus, and only swapping the twenty seven wheels for some modern alloy seven hundred wheels and chain.... and yes the last two months have been great despite it being double the weight of my carbon bike plus higher gearing, then Boxing Day I decided to ride my carbon road bike, and it felt incredibly harder on the rider feel back on my old body, but still faster by only five minutes per hour on a three hour winter ride... so a modern steel bike seems like the future, maybe ?
Living in places that salt the road a lot in the winter, steel isn't something I wanna ride in the winter. Carbon, titanium or stainless steel are the only frame materials I want for that
@@veganpotterthevegan you can wash it between rides…
@stevefitches1381 sure, and that can make a brine penetrate into the frame which is a total non-issue with carbon and titanium
@@veganpotterthevegan Modern cheap CroMoly frames have an ED coating now that prevents rust completely you are on crack again.
Awesome 👌
Pound for Pound wood is stronger than steel
The greatest bonus of 531 is it can be 'cold set'. this means the rear triangle could be widened from 126mm to 130mm. 753 couldn't. Bend it too much and it cracked.
Early 120mm OLN frames could be taken out to 126mm.
For me, fit comes first, and I can get a steel frame made to my dimensions and made to the flex my joints prefer. Plus, it’s easier to get customizations like built-in lighting and racks. Finally, after owning all kinds of forks, I still like the feel of tapered steel blades the best.
I had a vintage 1982 Olmo Competition and that bike was so nice to ride. It was so buttery smooth. It led me to get a custom steel Speedvagen which too rides so nicely. Aside from the weight steel frames feel smoother than my carbon bikes. It's a different feeling which is more grounded than carbon bikes that seem to float across the road. For a nice cruising or commuting bike, steel is the way to go. Plus, it takes it back to fine craftsmanship of the past. I've cycled through many carbon bikes but my steel Speedvagen is my one forever bike.
Steel is still being used to build bike frames that fulfill a wide niche. Ive owned the following bikes. Canyon endurace carbon, very nice. Cube aluminium cyclocross bike, exellent fit for purpose. My favourite bikes in no particular order are, Fairlight Strael mk3, Genesis croix de fer, Longstaff compact audax. At 63 years and 5kg too heavy i cant cut it anymore, but my steel bikes are sublime even if theyre 1 kg heavier frameset. Its the design, spec and build that determine a bikes fitness for purpose
I still see tons of those 70s 10 speeds (2X5 not 1X10, lol} around Boston, which is almost as damp as the UK. I think rust is the only advantage Ti has.
The ride quality of a very well made steel frame should never be underestimated. Personally, if you go steel, it has to be a good one, otherwise it sort of misses the point. My custom made #ronecycles Columbus Spirit HSS frame is not only modern (yet rim brakes) but a classic steel ride. And in Yeti turquoise, so a total one off. Well worth the investment and will probably outlive me!
Love my All-City Zig Zag! Not custom, but it fits well and is very quick.
Interesting subject and video.
I own a steel Shand Stooshie in gravel bike spec, Zipp 303s wheels, 38mm tubeless tyres Di2 GRX and Rockshox gravel 40mm travel fork.
Think this gives me the best combination of modern technology along with the traditional bike heritage of the bike frame.
I remember reading a Chinese statistic perhaps back in 2013 or 2014 that over 95% of the bikes and frames China exports were steel and at the time it was the only material that could be robot welded. I also watched a video where one man was loading 3 welding robot jigs in sequence. That one man must have manufactured 100s of steel frames per day. When you look at Argos, Halfords, Sports Direct, Ebay, Decathlon and Amazon which are huge sellers of bikes in the UK most of the cheaper models are steel especially children's bikes. However in China, Asia, Africa etc I'm sure its skewed more towards steel than that. It's only really performance lightweight bikes where steel is just an option. So seems strange to debate about steel being irrelevant when it actually completely monopolises the bike industry pretty much by volume. Surely carbon fibre or titanium are such niche materials they are the materials you could say are irrelevant as such a tiny percentage of cyclists in the world use those materials. I'm not sure I've ever actually seen a titanium bike locally. 99.9% of bikes I see are steel or aluminium.
I just bought a Ritchey Outback. Sweet ride, looks great - everybody who sees it asks about it - I love it.
I have 10 road bikes in my garage - one is carbon, two are titanium, one is aluminium, the rest are steel.
Being an older guy. I love the sleek thin lines of a Steel Bicycle. As far as ride quality goes in todays day and age. Plus Tubless tires. Carbons and Aluminum frame ride quality can be very good. But as a frame in its own. The springy flex of a steel frame is hard to beat. Owning all those materials in bicycle frames. I still love my Steels the most.
My next bike is most likely going to be steel. Currently have an aluminium bike but it's predecessor was made of steel.
Wouldn't a steel frame be ideal for an endurance/touring road bike, more comfortable on the the long ride?
Dawes Super Galaxy touring bike. 👍
I’d love more info on magnesium bike frames. It’s never mentioned in the options, but I know it’s used for bike building
I love steel bikes and titanium, ally to I’ve owned carbon bikes and no longer own any.. love the feel and ride of steel and titanium.. ally CAAD10 is more rigid for sure. Just my opinion 😊 Pete
Steel bikes = 2 Triple Crown Victories........
Carbon/Al/Ti bikes = ZERO Triple Crown Victories
This guy knows his stuff. Great interview.
I'd love a custom built steel frame one day with the best steel. Being able to repair your frame is of utmost importance. I hate that other types of frames are basically throwaways.
I own a steel gravel bike and would always go back for another steel bike for such type of cycling. Yes its heavier than Carbon but it can handle the „abuse“ better than a carbon frame. Plus it flexes a bit more and adds comfort.
I've just completely overhauled my 34 year old Claud Butler Dalesman (off-the-peg Reynolds 531 tourer)... it rides as well as the day I bought it, and I see no reason why it shouldn't go on for an other 34 years+. That's value for money!
We had steel frame single gear bicycles in the army in the summer months. Those bicycles took a real beating, every year new group of riders abusing them and not treating them "kindly" because obviusly nobody cared about them because they didn't own them. Actually if you would get the bicycle to fail, that would be a relief because in that case you skip the march and be transported to the destination on a truck so people obviously were kind of trying to get them to fail. Still these bicycles lasted for decades of that hard use of all kinds of people carrying heavy amount of gear (tens of kilos) and throwing them in the ditch in drills, riding them in all possible terain. Funny thing is that when we were riding these slow beasts for like 70km with 30kg of gear on, instructor drove with a modern mountain bike that had gears and all his personal stuff came in a car 😂
I have a steel and titanium hardtail mountain bike and I have a steel all-road bike and steel gravel bike.
The only carbon bike I have is my full suspension mountain bike.
Steel is so much better and lasts a long time!
BMX freestyle bikes are made of steel (4130 Chromoly for the good ones) because it is the most durable material to build frames from.
🤣 The REAL tech question: Can you own a steel bike without telling people you own a steel bike?
2:20 building Colnago Master Olympics right there with Columbus Gilco designed tubes and straight Precisa forks, the Cady's of cycling. Here's a teaser of it's wonderfull paintbrushes, ua-cam.com/video/Fo8noPWSc5U/v-deo.html and some Spinergy's from back in the '90s. Greets from Belgium! Simon
man & girl go out to drive under moonlight. they stop at on at a side of road. he turn to his girl and say: "baby, i love you very much" "what is it honey?" "our car is broken down. i think the engine is broken, ill walk and get some more fuel." "ok. ill stay here and look after our stereo. there have been news report of steres being stolen." "good idea. keep the doors locked no matter what. i love you sweaty"
so the guy left to get full for the car. after two hours the girl say "where is my baby, he was supposed to be back by now". then the girl here a scratching sound and a voice say "LET ME IN"
the girl doesn't do it and then after a while she goes to sleep. the next morning she wakes up and finds her boyfriend still not there. she gets out to check and man door hand hook car door.
For 95% of journeys I use a 1990s fully rigid 26 inch wheel MTB with v brakes, a single sprocket at the back and a rack at the front for hauling. It's beautiful I love it. So simple, so solid, so enjoyable to ride. I don't want anything else.
I refurbed an old steel frame road bike as my winter bike, it's great to ride, definitely heavier and slower but when the Spring comes and I so enjoy the carbon fibre. Vive la difference!
Yes, but……. The factors that go into a good frame have to apply to steel too.
I bought a 2015 Motobecane gran premio of Reynolds 725. A lugged beauty. Trad geometry. It was relatively heavy and lacked enough rigidity.
I never fell in love with it. A bit of a slug. I noticed that the seat stays were very delicately bonded to the seat tube, for beauty’s sake I guess. That and other things I should’ve looked at. The builder matters. Do your homework on the specific frame you want.
I've had a Chas Roberts MTB for 32 years and a Dave Lloyd triathlon bike for 30 years; it wasn't until 3 or 4 years ago that I realised they're Chas & Dave...
I see many parallels btwn steel bikes and vinyl records. We're entering into the 'record collecting' phase for steel bikes right now. Steel frames are still being made, however, it's more of a niche in the industry.. Equivelent to record companies pressing vinyl during the Compact Disc era of music. There are still people out there who want steel frames, but the greater industry has moved in a different direction. Which leads me to believe that steel frames, like vinyl records, will never fully go away. There is a demand at the moment for classic steel frames from the 70s, 80s, & 90s and no shortage of forgotten, discarded, or storage bound frames and parts to be discovered, recycled and resuscitated by a new generation of cyclists (record collectors). Purists looking for the undeniable look and feel of steel are much like the DJs and music nerds who yearned for the sound and feel of vinyl, eventually leading to music industry (major and independent lables) returning to vinyl production.
All of that to say.. I see a resurgence of steel frame production in the not too distant future. 😎🤙🏼
Coming from a carbon bike, I'm now on a bespoke steel bike and there is no chance I will be back to a carbon bike. My steel bike is faster, safer, more robust, far more comfortable, feels so good to ride, easier to work with and looks so so good. I also get far less fatigue after long rides or pretty intense rides or races (I do principaly hill climb amateur races). I believe the most important thing when you are on the way to get a steel bike is to find a great builder that has a good knowledge on bike fiting and bike geometry that can build you a bike that meets your specific needs. It's a pretty complex matter to get it right and not every steel bikes are equal, far from it and there is a lot of parameters to deal with in order to fine tune a steel bike. I would also strongly avoid disk brake steel bikes. Making a steel frame for disk brake will inevitably compomise the ride quality and efficiency of the frame.
I own a Norco Search Steel bike made from a Reynolds 725s for AUD$2,000. I chose it because of the 'steel is real' ethos, great blue paint, but most of all, the superb value-for-money components (it came with GRX 20 speed groupset, hydraulic disc brakes, super light wtb rims).
In Australia, for $2k, you'd get an aluminium/carbon with entry level Claris, Sora components or Microshift.
I've since done a 100k Brisbane to Gold Coast and commute 3 days a week, plus weekend rides.
I've also added some aero Pro-lite rims and can match carbon-led pelotons around the Brisbane areas. Its range of gears are superb and I highly recommend the ride.
Young’s modulus isn’t the yield strength like the interviewee says, where the material undergoes plastic deformation beyond that point (even that is an approximate definition)
I restored my 1998, 4130 Chrome-moly Gary Fisher mountain bike. I use it to commute into work occasionally, because it has rack mounts. My other bikes don't have rack mounts. My local multi-use path is a bit rough, and I have to say, the 2" slicks, steel frame and primitive Rockshox DART fork (not original) make the path feel like freshly paved asphalt. Well, almost! The point is, I purchased the Gary Fisher 25 years ago-and it is still a very serviceable, enjoyable bike. If you're not racing, a high-quality steel bike makes sense. A high-quality steel bike can easily last 20+ years. I'm currently looking at a Ribble Gravel 725, Norco Search, and a Niner SIR 9. Two to three thousand dollars for a bike which does not need to be replaced in a few years is really not a lot of money. To be fair, my 12 year old aluminum Synapse is still going strong. But steel does a better job at killing the "buzz" you can feel on a bike, in my opinion.
I have owned, raced and disposed of several carbon and aluminum bicycles, but I still ride my 40 year old Miyata, and also own two fabulous steel bikes made by Fairlight. I do 'get it' however, that steel bikes these days are either department store junk or handmade beauties like my Strael or the myriad of well-known (e.g. Ritchey) steel manufacturers in the market. There is plenty of demand for these, but from enthusiasts of the genre...not the high-status owners of top carbon frames or the aluminum bikes that mostly I don't understand why.
Titanium continues a niche of it's own
Steel is cool. If you want to buy a bike made out of steel, awesome. Whatever gets you on a bike.
I ride up mountains all the time. While I’m not a weight weenie, I’m also not looking to intentionally handicap myself.
My carbon road bike is 19lbs, in a size 58. What would a comparable steel bike weigh, I wonder?
You can get a 19 lb steel bike. It will be custom built from high end steel.
Look at a Ritchey Road Logic, triple butted tubes that are changed to match each size rather than being the same across all sizes. I've seen large size frame brake get to 17ish lbs and you'd be in the 18lbs range with a disc model without breaking the bank even without breaking the bank. My large size Ritchey Swiss Cross disc is just under 20lbs and I'm not even being a weight weenie and riding 38c tires and a Brooks saddle which is heavy. I love riding the Swiss Cross so much I sold my Titanium Curve Belgie and I'm going to get a Road Logic.
My Reynolds 853 fixie is 17 pounds without using weight weenie parts. Put a nice 40/18 gearing on it, it will easily gap your heavy carbon bike as a climbing bike IMO.
@@___Bebo___ true, I rode my single speed up to Katoomba in NSW, Australia over taking more than a few carbon riders who were shocked that I did it on a steel MTB frame converted SS and I'd already done 100km to get there.
I've found my full rigid steel bike is more comfortable than my Aluminium Full Sus. Same wheels n tires, same saddle but the steel gave a more comfortable ride. Witchcraft I call it...
Got a custom made steel gravel bike from Project 12 bikes in the Netherlands and I love it. I am one of the people who ride for pleasure and fitness but I do follow my performance and I don't really notice the pound or two greater weight vs. carbon.
Had my (custom) winter and race Brian Rourkes since the mid 90’s, 531c and 653 respectively. I look like a real old timer (despite being a mere 48) when I’m out but have seen no reason to change as I don’t think anything could be considered an upgrade!