Steel Frames vs The Bike Industry: What They Don't Tell You
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- Опубліковано 30 чер 2024
- There has been a concerted effort to push more and more consumers unto Carbon Frames by simply eliminating choice. It is a difficult task to find a steel road bike for performance and it is virtually non existent from any of the mainstream cycling manufacturers.
In this video I give my initial ride impressions of a modern steel frame built up for performance as well as a discussion on the secondary cycling market which continues to offer Steel frames for performance riding.
#steelframebike #cycling #bikeindustry #performancebike
00:00 Introduction
00:40 Industry Offerings
01:30 Who Builds Modern Steel Frames
03:30 How I purchased this Frame
05:30 Bike Features and Build Specs
07:47 Initial Ride Impressions
10:30 Future Ride Plans
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My sincere feeling is that if more people tried quality steel with modern components and quality wheelset, they would prefer it to carbon.
The issue is that the media and marketing has brainwashed the casual riders of today that only carbon matters and no other material should be ridden. I myself prefer steel or titanium over any carbon bike as a casual rider.
Agreed, I have a Look 765 (Carbon) and an old Litespeed Saber TI frame. If im riding 30 miles or less I go TI all the time. The feel and speed is amazing. My friends that have steel feel the same way, high quality metal just feels amazing.
Im making the switch from carbon to steel due to sizeing issues i went the custom route with scarab cycles. Hopefully this bike is as good as my emonda sl6 pro was. It will have modern componets and wheels. Im excited but also nervous.
@@veganpotterthevegan thanks for watching. I am glad you've found what works best for you.
Owning both carbon and steel frames, I prefer my steel frames for most of the rides I do. There are rides where I am unquestionably using my carbon frames and there are times where my desire to ride any one of them will dictate what I swing my leg over. But I maintain that most cyclist can fulfill their ride purpose on quality steel frames.
I would also venture to guess that the performance of Titanium has advanced a bit from what you had built in 2007... could be wrong but it's just a guess.👍🏾
@@veganpotterthevegan I know this is the internet, but we don't do that here. You have a preference for carbon... great. But please don't condescend anyone on here for the choice they make. Thanks👍🏾
Steel is incredible, and so are rim brakes and mechanical groupsets, hopefully we see all this things make a comeback!
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You speak my language; my primary ride is a 1984 Trek 400 all mechanical with friction shifter. Rode it from Tacoma WA to Panama City. The bike industry is getting out of hand; more disposable than repairable.
Steel is also way better for the environment Carbon does not break down in landfills hard to recycle and hard to repair Aluminum frames need huge amount of energy to recycle
@@tdgdbs1 Yeah totally agree carbon bikes even elite ones to me have a cheap look to them My uncle reckons carbon fiber will be the future asbestos in landfills
My favorite bike that I have had since I was a boy is a 1982 bianchi !! In the 1990's everyone used to poke fun at that bike with cables poking out of brake levers etc But it has never let me down Only change is new rims and newer campy derailleur Still has friction levers Used to love cleaning up on 5 mile hills etc where a light weight rider always rules no matter what he rides !! Nowadays people are always admiring it !!
@@veganpotterthevegan Shimano 600 and dura ace ,105, etc from early 1990's when they were competing against Suntour was beautifully made and very high quality Today with market dominance shimano products may still last but their groupsets look a bit cheap
Greetings from Germany. Thank you for this video. What many people forget is what happens if a bike gets disposed. A steel frame can easily be recycled, while carbon frames can't. I'm currently saving money to get a custom steel frame and I'm looking forward to riding it.
I wish you all the best, keep up the good work.
Argon 18 is working to turn damaged carbon frames that can't be repaired into furniture and other items. But I agree, a carbon fibre a frame is not the most environmentally sound product to begin with.
What do you mean disposed? I've never disposed a bike before. It's been 15 years
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@@devdroid9606Silca uses recycled carbon in their tire sealant, as well.
Carbon can be fixed ..but steel just feels better and more high quality to me. Also a steel frame is pretty much low production and has a better average build quality.
About six weeks ago I took delivery of a custom steel road bike. Columbus Spirit tubing, Dura Ace Di2, Enve fork, stem, seat post. Industry Nine aero wheels. 17.5 pounds all up. Hands down the best riding bike I've ever had. And made for me and my body; not to one of six available factory sizes. After a century on my Specialized carbon bike, I can't walk for a day. 100 on this bike is damn near a walk in the park. Super-fast, responsive.....I can only imagine what a fast rider (unlike me) could do with the bike. And less money than what I would've spent on a comparable carbon bike. I was back on my carbon bike this morning for 35 miles (on vacation; only brought the one bike); it was like driving a dump truck and I'm icing my knee as I write this. As Ferris Bueller said, "If you have the means, I highly recommend picking one up."
Thanks for sharing! Ferris lives👍🏾
You could get custom carbon... And it wouldn't weigh what a bone stock $2k CAAD does
This!
So you spent an extra $1000 for dura ace over Ultegra to save 1/2 pound? Less than one water bottle. Makes no sense. Some people just like to throw their money away.
@@holdencaulfied7492 You do you. I'll do me. It wasn't for the weight; it was for the quality of the product.
I bought a steel frame for my "retirement" bike. I'm in the UK and had my frame "made to measure". I specified "Dutch bike" geometry and Mercian (Derby, UK) built me a frame based on their "King of Mercia" design. The tubes are Reynolds 725 chrome-moly. The fit is perfect and reminds me of donning a made to measure suit or shouldering a fitted shotgun.
If you get a made-to-measure steel frame I am confident you will not regret it. I certainly don't
Congrats on your retirement 👍🏾
I have been riding my made to measure Waterford for 15 years the best cycling decision I ever made.
A new performance bike with externally routed cables and rim brakes! Thanks for pushing back against the trends.
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I never pushed back against the trends; I never TOOK PART in the first place! I still have an old school fleet of bikes with external cables and rim brakes. Discs are overkill for what I do.
I was out for a 12 mile ride today on my 1980 Univega Specialissima. They don't make them like that anymore and it's a shame. It's all Tange double butted tubing and is very light. You can feel that the frame is "alive" under you as you effortlessly ride along. Best $400 I ever spent in 1980. Made in Japan by the Miyata corp. The best company in the world at that time. Have upgraded it to a more "upright" riding position.
Old Miyatas are nice!
Louis couple of makes missing from the UK is Condor using Columbus tubing and Genesis using Reynolds.. both excellent and well respected. With great racing history. I’ve just ordered a Condor Acciaio frame and fork which uses Columbus spirit tubing and is built in Italy 😊 going to be running Chorus 11 speed 😃😃🤩👍🚴🏻 Pete
Thanks Pete! Yep, many have mentioned the Condor and their commitment to steel frames in the pro peloton. Please let me know about it once you get it👍🏾
My Surly Pacer has always been my choice for lunch workouts. Ride it 5 days a week. Rim brakes, 10 spd 105 group set w/DuraAce downtube shifters in glorious disco tomato. Ride it in the fall and spring as well using 32mm tires. Like you said previously, care free riding but with no compromises in quality. Thanks for keeping cycling alive!
I ride a green pacer. I’m a bit pissed off they dropped the pacer from their catalogue .In fact its flippin bizarre 🤷🏻♂️
That Surly sounds like a "ride or die"😁
Thank you so much for being on team steel! I just don’t get how disrespected steel is anymore in cycling it’s just so bizarre to me.
Now I have those steel bikes that are vintage, but absolutely hope to build a true modern performance steel bike such as yours. I appreciate all the insight for the dark star!
Thanks for weighing in. I think a lot of the negative chatter comes from people who have not ridden quality steel. Just my opinion 👍🏾
steel bikes are just more expensive than quality aluminum bikes
@@miyui9269 modern ones yea they can be. All my steel framesets are vintage and all were under $100. But it is kind of tedious trying to find one in The right size, condition, and not overpay as they aren’t worth much at the end of the day and some people are asking too much for them.
I have my Waterford with campy record 53x39 chainsetwith 11 speed 11-25 cassette mechanical with rim brakes with Belgium rims with campy record hubs. Bike rides like a dream!
Hang on to those steel frames !! Look after them they will last a life time and can always be repaired I have a gut feeling good quality steel bikes may be a good investment as people wise up to modern marketing methods !!
Great subject. I ride a 22 years old Olmo 16.5 EOM frame with C Record 10 and as we used to say "Steel is Real" I really appreciate a steel frame when out of the saddle sprinting and climbing. Steel also fatigues the body less on long rides.
Great tubeset👍🏾
I ride a Gios Compact Pro I bought new in 2001. It looks properly ancient now--but I ride it with tubulars, real Campagnolo pedals, real Campagnolo Chorus cranks, Super Record brakes from early 80s, and of course my brake cables are exposed 😀
I have a C-record groupset--the Delta brakes are soo cool--but haven't put them on anything!
Got a beautiful Olmo in 1988 - my first "high end" road bike. 21mm tires, saddle made of cement so every pebble and crack was like hitting a road block with hands and privates sleeping soon after the first corner. Did a 420K ride and came second in a local crit on that bike. Upgraded to carbon Roubaix in 2008 and have not looked back since. 😋
Torelli a California based importer of
handmade Italian
steel road bike .
I’ve bought a. lot of handmade frames in the past.
This one here was purchased eight yrs ago , provides a smooth stable ride outfitted with Campagnolo Chorus.
Thanks for the reminder!
Another performance steel road frame consideration might be the Rivendell Roadeo. A 55cm frame weighs less than 4 lbs, despite its beautifully lugged construction. Designed for fast club riding with pacelines, etc. with a lowish bottom bracket and clearance for 35mm tires. Rim brakes only. Quill or threadless stem.
Nice. Thanks for the tip👍🏾
There are several Italian brands mentioned here, but you don't mention Casati. i'm riding a Casati Espresso. Hand Built, fillet brazed, Columbus Spirit tubing. Very Light weight, responsize. Absolutely love riding this bike.
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Also Norco is worth mentioning!🍁
I'm so glad that I was able to get a Waterford gravel bike last year, especially now that they've ceased operations. Between that and my 1998 Bianchi Mega Set, I am not tempted by carbon frames at all.
You just got it in before they closed shop👍🏾
Marinoni made in Terrebonne near Montréal, Canada since 1974. So great bikes that supplied us olympic team in the eighties (branded Raleigh)
Built up and rode many frames over the years and I must say I prefer steel overall. If you’re not racing competitively get a good quality steel bike
Agreed!
Great topic and even better channel-well done Bro. Scott. Please don't forget (like most do) JAMIS! Probably the best kept secret for over all value in America today. Eclipse, Coda and Renegade ;Reynolds 853, 621 and 520 respectively have been fantastic!!
Thanks for mentioning Jamis👍🏾
@@thegoodwheel Wanted to entertain,inspire… no wait, that’s what you do. Again, love your chanel -be blessed!
I built my own lugged Steel Cyclocross frame in 2011 after watching a video by Richard Sachs and reading a book by Marc Chimonas and it was a phenomenal experience. It was way easier than I expected. It is a fantastic ride and super light and smooth. Steel today is not the steel we grew up with in the 70’s and 80’s and anyone turning their nose at it in favor of Carbon needs to consider a bit more knowledge and understanding research. Don’t let the manufacturer’s dictate what is best cause they have no clue.
Sorry you had that experience in those stores. I work in a shop that sells Trek and Giant, but also the QBP brands (Salsa, Surly, All-City), and at least half of our staff have steel road bikes. I got my self the last production steel bike Trek made before discontinuing it last year, the 520, and also have an 80s chromoly frame from Japan.
Some shops employ people who love bicycles of all kinds, and some shops turn into marketing parrots for their major brand partners. I don't want to suggest people go into a shop with deceptive intentions, but go in with a bike in mind that you want (regardless of whether or not they have it), describe it's aspects, and see how close they get to it with their recommendation. I've personally told customers that we don't have what they are looking for, but help them find it, and put forward that we're still happy to service whatever bike they get. It's rare, but sometimes the All-City Zig-Zag doesn't cut it for steel customers.
Thanks for sharing!
As the saying goes... Steel is Real. Wish more people spoke the truth like you.
Thanks for watching👍🏾
That Alchemy frame is an absolute beauty, very nice build too. I like the Deda furniture.
Built up a Fairlight Secan last year. Its my favorite bike now for Audax/Brevet type rides and off road adventures.
I still like my Specialized Tarmac, but I only ride it for training rides now.
Thanks for sharing. I appreciate that it is possible to enjoy both steel and carbon bikes👍🏾
Luis! This stuff is great!. I don't know why you don't show up in my feed more often. I am an old man (74) and have two frames I got back in the early '70s-- identical Ron Kit time trial frames that have performed flawlessly for 50 years. One of my regular rides (mostly around my neighborhood) ia a Ron Kitching time trial frame that, believe it or not, endured a full bike tour from Le Havre, France, to Florence, Italy and back with a load, because we didn't know better. That frame has been in my daily service for 50 years. Even as a drooling dotard, I can feel the responsive spring of this steel frame (Super Vitus tubing) that seems to propel me forward rather than hold me back. Keep up the good work. Your deep analysis is so welcome. Thank you. PJT
I'm 74 also. I ride a 1979 Apollo Gran Sport with new Tiagra components. I only changed the essential parts for the groupset to work so I have a wonderful mix of old and new components.
Thank you for taking the time to do these. I really enjoy your videos!
Glad you like them!
17 lbs for your new ride is very comparable to most carbon bike weights! Beautiful build and looking forward to hearing more about your next ride. Also Im quite jealous of you flatlanders with your big chainrings and tiny cassettes 😂
😂😂😂 It is quiet a treat to buzz along at speed... but a bump here or there is always nice👍🏾
Really? Rim brake? My CAAD 10 with 105 weighs that... My Evo Hi mod weighs 15 with Dura Ace 9000 and stock build, Aluminum bar stem, seatpost, RS81 wheelset
Steel is a hard sell to those who don't look past Specialized/Giant/Trek. The fact is that you can now get a custom steel frame, made exactly to your specs and measurements, painted as you wish, for appreciably less than the price of an S Works. Factor in the fact that the 500-700g weight disadvantage is actually immaterial until you're at least Cat 2, and that is a better purchase for most riders. If something off the shelf fits, both in terms of spec and size, then even better.
You can get a custom ti frame less than an S works, set the bar a little high with s works imo lol
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You can do the same with a HQ Chinese direct sale frame - with no weight penalty.
@@meibing4912 I’m not aware of any direct sale Chinese brands doing made to measure…?
There are several frames, many handle bars and sometimes even a couple of saddle pins to choose from - so I found one that fit and far most people can too. As for made-to-fit; custom wheels are possible (I had a pair made) - but costs will vary as it depends on how they can accommodate the molding. Frame cost would probably be prohibitive. @@jdh895
A nice test to do in order to see how a bike flexes is to support yourself in a doorway or otherwise, grab the brakes and stand on the pedals with them at the 3 o'clock position. With your full weight and pressure of both legs, you should be able to see the BB move from side to side. You can then compare this with your Colnago VR4. It would be interesting to see the difference side-by-side in a video, with the same wheels. Steel probably flexes more, but that energy is not lost. It is returned and you can feel this spring when you dance on the pedals and bunny hop over items.
That would be interesting👍🏾
Of course your right... they do not make springs out of carbon fiber, or aluminum for that matter.
I’d like to mention two great Canadian performance steel frame manufacturers. Mariposa Bicycles out of Toronto and Marinoni Bicycles out of Montreal.
Thanks for sharing👍🏾
Had a 6’5” friend get a carbon handlebar for his steel bike. I told him that he should just go steel on the handlebar. Suffice to say, the carbon handlebar broke, and he went to steel and has been happy and safer ever since.
Thanks for sharing👍🏾
Aluminum would have been fine too
I’ve heard someone else say this and it rings true through my experience: “steel is real!” I’ve used my steel frame bike for multiple 70.3 triathlons and it has never steered me wrong, literally or figuratively. They definitely can perform.
Very interesting. I'm a casual rider who doesn't really know all that much about bikes, honestly. I ride a Bianchi Vigorelli, a 631 steel bike with ultegra components that I bought new in 2001.
I've loved the bike enough to keep it for 22 years. I've noticed on more than one occasion I've brought it to the bike shop for this or that fix and the techs, rather than trying to tell me my ride is trash, express admiration for my beautiful old ride.
Ha ha, thats because the Vigorelli is a great bike!
Funny ....on my ride this morning I was thinking that the big manufacturers have side-lined steel as a viable frame material....and here you are shedding light!
True, right?! Thanks for watching👍🏾
Thank you for making this video! A few other companies making modern steel bikes: Stoemper, Pegoretti, Ciocc, Battaglin, Officine Matteo, Ligor and my favorite, Daccordi Cycles.
Thank you for adding those!
Luis - thx for yet another excellent video. I'm glad the new Darkstar frameset is performing well so far. Be well, sir.
Thanks, you too!
Dutch brand Gazelle did a run of 250 steel road frames back in 2017/2018 to celebrate their 125th birthday. A Reynolds frame with a Cervelo carbon fork (Gazelle and Cervelo are both part of the same parent company). Gazelle had long since stopped producing road bikes, let alone steel ones, but for this occasion harkened back to their famous Champion Mondial model that ran from the '60s through to the late '90s / early 2000s, which, as the name suggests, at one point won the world championship and utterly dominated Dutch amateur racing. I'm not sure I ever found out who they commissionned to build the frames for them - I might have forgotten or never found out in the first place. It was a beautiful thing, but too expensive for me, plus I'm happy as can be with my' 1992 Champion Mondial built with modern components.
Man, that's a cool story. Thanks for sharing 👍🏾
In April I had the opportunity to test ride a Cinelli Nemo (Gravel) at our local bike shop/café in Munich. Cinelli sent 3 people with a van loaded with bikes over the Alps and our local bike shop/café had organised several slots of both road and gravel guided tours. Fantastic event! Cinelli staff was really nice, down to earth and helpful.
Oh, and I'm definitely sold on the Nemo. It's way stiffer than my vintage Sancineto in the bottom bracket, yet still not uncomfortable, and it still has that "zing" that we love about steel. Definitely got a soul... it's always teasing you to push a little harder. Just like an old three series or an Alfa. When (not if - when!) I can afford/justify it, I'll buy one.
Thanks for sharing👍🏾
Steel is real! Thanks for including plenty of “non-carbon” content on your channel. Another brand offering great steel bikes in the U.S. is Ritte. I have their steel road bike, the Phantom, and it’s my favorite road bike I’ve owned in 40 years of serious road cycling. Reynolds steel, Shimano Ultegra w/ hydro discs, Hunt wheels , clearance for 32mm tires. Perfect road bike for Vermont’s crappy pavement and milder gravel roads.
you got that pavement right!
If steel is so real, point to it on the periodic table. I see Ti, Al, even C... 😂
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@@TheSpoovy "I see Ti, Al, even C"
What do those have to do with anything? No bike component is made out of Ti, Al, or C. Steel is an alloy of Fe and C at the very least, and the Fe-based alloys used for making good bike frames also contain other elements, e.g., Cr, Mo, and other elements. Likewise, the "titanium" used for bike components is some type of Ti-based alloy containing e.g., V, Al, C, Fe, and other elements. And the "aluminum" used for bike components is some type of Al-based alloy containing e.g., Cr, Cu, Fe, Mg, and other elements.
On the other hand, the stuff that people commonly call "carbon fiber" is a composite material consisting primarily of plastic (epoxy resin), reinforced with C fibers, also known as graphite fibers.
In any case, "steel is real" is a ridiculous saying. People keep saying it because it rhymes, even though it means nothing. It is meaningless in the sense that all materials are real, obviously, so saying that steel is real is just stating the obvious. It being real doesn't distinguish it from any other material in any way, so there's no point in saying it. It only distinguishes it from fictional materials like "adamantium" or "vibranium," which might be relevant to a comic books vs. real life discussion, but not to a bicycle discussion.
That Darkstar is a pretty bike - I keep thinking that I wouldn't necessarily go with a white frame myself because it will get dirty more obviously but motorists probably can see you better. It will be interesting to see how it fares over time.
Luis great vid as always, have very much been looking forward to this. Very fair and balanced summary of what’s out there. Agree you’ve got to ride it to know it, that’s the real take home point. As like carbon, not all steels are the same and most important is how they’re nuanced and used eg : tube shaping, thicknesses, where and how butting is placed, the overall geometry of the fabricated bike, ST and HT angles (0.5 of a degree can alter the ride feel). Your sizing numbers very close to mine, from previous vids and my personal experience is the slightly shorter wheelbase will keep the potential ride responsive and highly manoeuvreable without compromising your usual riding position / contact points. Good job and waiting for more 👏👍
Thank you Kevin👍🏾
Just found your channel today and you have some awesome content! Thanks for your thoughtful insight; I'm definitely hitting the subscribe button.
In my forty years of riding all kinds of bikes my most comfortable was a custom steel J.P. Weigle frameset.
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I’m surprised that steel frames like this aren’t more common. I ride old steel frames that are restomodded with modern componentry and wheel sets. Yes, there’s the weight issue but from a fit/cost/comfort perspective, steel is truly viable. No problem keeping up on competitive group rides with this setup.
Same here. Resto-mods rule! Classic hand built Schwinn Paramount (Tange Prestiege tube set) with modern Dura-Ace components. I think more people would do this if they had a chance to ride one.
Sounds like you have a sweet ride! Mine’s an ‘86 Schwinn Prelude with 105 r7000 groupset, 28mm tubeless, and a custom Nitto stem. Columbus steel triangle. Super comfortable, and decent geometry.
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Many old frames struggle with the number of gears and the width of the tires. Also, possible rust is something that needs to be checked. I feel more comfortable with alu frames if going metal.
Are you only talking about road bike tho? Because for touring bike steel is practically the standard.
I'm glad I found this channel. I'm not a steel purist but I like to keep my options open and have frames in carbon, aluminum and steel.
Great approach! Thanks for watching
An excellent review! Steel has much to offer. A good steel frame is an instrument, not a tool! I've ridden/raced all frame materials (well, not magnesium...) over 35 years and have a variety of steel, aluminium and carbon bikes in the stable (just evidence I'm being objective!). Steel rides beautifully and its lateral flex makes it corner exceptionally well. It is slightly heavier, but there are such advantages in feel, dependability, workshop simplicity and environmental performance that make a few grams (er, ounces?!) an easy trade. I can attest to Ritchey's quality and value and the Logic Road is definitely a 'sport' bike (rim or disc). In fact, I think Ritchey deserves more love - innovative and original. Another stable from you guys in the US is Gunnar and Waterford, another brand (rather than custom house) from us Brits is Enigma (mostly Ti, but high end steel too).
Hey James, great post! Thanks for sharing👍🏾
There are issues with purchasing a modern steel frame: most are super expensive and while they offer custom builts etc, most are simply too elaborate / boutique for what I am after.
That's why I resorted to a classic steel frame with modern components.
I have a classic Colnago (with precisa steel fork) with modern Dura Ace (9100 mechanical) and carbon wheels. I use this bike for fast group rides and am thinking of even doing some races on it. It weighs 8.5 kgs.
I have a Pinarello with shimano 600 (downtube shifters) and 32-spoke box rim wheels for retro rides, and last, I have an old steel frame with carbon fork (1 inch - hard to find these days) that I use as a winter bike.
All work very well and the Colnago feels, performance-wise, not much different to my carbon racebikes, but it is much smoother and doesn't make any noise whatsoever. It feels much softer on the road but not too flexy / noodly / ... so ideal for showing that you don't need a carbon frame to drop riders with a 2023 Trek Madone / Specialized Tarmac.
Some (small) additions:
Another frame builder: Jaegher
Wilier had Alessandro Ballan on a Wilier steel in 2006 for Roubaix (probably the last time a steel frame was used in a big race?). That was a one-off as well, so not commercially available. Search for Steel is real: Alessandro Ballan's Lampre-Fondital custom Wilier. He got 3rd on that steel frame. Pretty sure this was the last big race / classic / monument with a steel frame making the podium.
Thanks for sharing! I did look up Ballan's Wilier👍🏾
i'd love to see you go through the physical process of your builds, or how you manage to finance a new build. i love your channel and content and it is inspiring me to do my own build w steel, but on a true true tight budget
Sounds like a good video idea👍🏾
I have a Trek 760 Steel racing bike that i have equipped with Shimano 105 and aero Wheels. Great bike and ride.
Thanks for sharing that 👍🏾
Condor Cycles in London make fantastic steel bikes. Actually they are hand made on Italy and designed in London. They ride like an absolute dream
Thanks for sharing. I just sent a link on a good deal for a Condor to a friend. Hopefully he gets it👍🏾
I have recently been given an 1983 Raleigh Quasar steel frame bike. After some recommissioning, I have been amazed at how comfortable it is to ride, even on 23mm tyres at 90psi. I have only ever owned aluminium and carbon bikes to date. Maybe steel really is real.........Down tube shifters and only 12 speeds is taking some getting used to but not too bad to use after STi. Period brakes are not so good so I'm having to think and look further ahead.
Enjoy your videos by the way.
Thank you Julian... yes, upgrade those period brakes if you can👍🏾
Lugged steel is amazing.
Man, get some dual pivot brakes they are easy to find. Then ride like you stole it!
Love your channel! I've been looking into steel frames but never got one because of the trend of alloy and carbon frames. Now the prices of steel frames have jumped a few hundred bucks. Your videos are really helping me out on my next build. Thank you!
Thank you! I am glad to hear that👍🏾
I’d like to add Chumba to that steel bike list, the Terlingua. It sells as a gravel bike but also does road duty very well. They offer some stock sizes and also allow a treat or two to the geo. ❤thanks, as always a great video.
Thanks for sharing that👍🏾
Cool to hear your thoughts on how the geometry and tubing affects the riding. And good to hear your in-depth riding impressions. I Would have been interesting to hear your opinion on the Cinelli Nemo Tig. A shame they didn't get back to you.
Some additional frame manufacturers worth a look, Curve makes some interesting steel frames(as well as Titanum) for Adventure and road riding. Rizzo cycles(steel and Ti) and Scarab cycles makes some really good looking custom frames as well.
Thanks for sharing. Definitely looking at Scarab👍🏾
What I've found with quality steel frames is the feeling of stored energy as the frame flexes under load.
They are more comfortable and fun to pedal outside of the saddle. Having said that, that same organic flex can be perceived in good aluminum frames during harder efforts.
@@KarlosEPM true but I would be more concerned with the fatigue life of aluminium vs steel or titanium. Best steel road bike I had was made with Columbus Max tubing, slightly harsh fork but my goodness that thing would fly.
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Organic flex in alumnium? You just made that up on the spot.@@KarlosEPM
@@KarlosEPM is frame flex common for all steel bikes ? Doesn't that feel un safe ?
I have a 1917 Iver Johnson Truss Frame Special Racer - all steel. It’s been in my family since about 1948. I still ride it regularly and it couldn’t be more fun. Single speed, skip-tooth chain and sprockets, steel wheels, coaster break, Schwalbe tires. She’s a good old girl!!! Original list price in the catalog was $55.00. At 106 years old, that’s a great value 😂
I have a number of Ritchey bikes, the oldest being a 1987 Super Comp mtn bike. This year I bought two new Ritchey frames, an Outback gravel bike and a Swiss Cross cross bike. They are really special and I'm very pleased with them. Thanks for the great video.
Very cool!
Im surprised you didn't mention Pegoretti, and btw, that Standert bike you showed, the frame is aluminum. You mention problems with Cinelli but the Darkstar by Luxe wheelworks doesn't even have a website
Yeah, I am aware of the wrong Standert picture and we should always metion Pegoretti.
The Darkstar is not a bike in production anymore... on the other hand, Cinelli is an active company that is marketing their bikes and so a Rep not getting back to a dealer regarding a client inquiry does not bode well.
Gorgeous bike. It would be great to hear your opinions on how the bike does uphill, especially in sprint mode when you really need put a lot of force through the BB area. Additionally, how does this build price compare with equivalent carbon models?
I own a Marinoni steel touring bike. Best bike I ever bought.
These guys still sell a performance oriented steel frame bike. They are based on the suburbs of Montreal and they have have been building steel bikes including custom sizes for decades now (since the 70's i think). You can add them to your list although I'm unsure if they sell in the US.
Thanks for the info!
Wow, the DarkStar build looks awesome! As I mentioned before, in my humble opinion and I own two, when talking about steel, Dario Pegoretti should always be mentioned. Even though Dario is no longer with us, the Bottega is still making some awesome frames. But it is pricey! I also have two Legends By Bertoletti custom. Marco Bertoletti is a master frame builder and a really cool guy. I have the Sella Ronda(Classic) and Fedaia, both steel. If I were to do a Crit, I would take the Fedaia any day. I have been collecting steel bikes for many years and still think steel is awesome for long rides, bike sportives, and some racing. Steel bikes are flat out cool and awesome rides. There are so many great Frame Builders making some really amazing custom frames. I believe the more seasoned rider will always have a steel bike, even if it is just for special rides. I love my steel bikes! Keep up the steel movement! Great video!
Thanks for sharing your insights 👍🏾
That's a gorgeous new build.
Man, I've never been a trend chaser or a latest tech junkie. I've ridden significant miles on most frame materials, and I'm fully aware what the science says. I'm also fully aware what my pocketbook, durability history, carbon footprint statistics and my spondylosis & spondylolisthesis riddled back says. Steel is better for all those concerns.
Thank you for sharing your insights👍🏾
Well, welcome to the spondy cycling club!
It’d be interesting to see your take on state bikes. They have a steel all road and I believe steel or aluminum AXS builds for under 2k
Thanks for the tip!
Please! Picking up my steel all road tomorrow!
As a fellow bike nerd... I appreciate you sharing this absolute thoroughbred of a bike.
Incremental advantages! I know the video was about modern steel frames but I ride two steel bikes: My Ishiwata "Glories Victory 019 tubeset frame may not be the lightest, but having purchased in new in 1983 and ride it every week, and used to race 'road' on it. I doubt I could ever part with it. Built originally with first series Suntour Superbe Pro (SSP) ( friction), I upgraded it to Superbe Pro Indexed when I restored it about 12 years ago. I needed something to ride whilst I restored it, so I purchase a frame on Ebay made from Columbus SLX tubing and another SSP group set from the same seller and I restored this bike too. On this one, I have been racing Masters criteriums since 2011 with periodic success (yes, with down-tube shifters), all the while competing against some younger riders with modern carbon bikes. I know I will die with both of these bikes forming part of my estate! Curiosity has got the better of me though. I recently purchased a second hand 2018 BMC SLR01, as I wanted to know first hand the difference between bike tech some 40 years apart. I must say, the BMC is definitely more responsive, lighter, handles about the same, is smoother and the Sram Red etap shifters are very, very convenient, and the wheel set (spokes and rims) is more efficient. I will say however, the quality of the old SSP group set is first class, without question. The hubs are still better than any other hubs I have come across , (Chris King, DTSwiss) but it is unfortunate that the rear hubs cannot be set up for 11speed. Yes, steel may be a little heavier but it will far out live carbon frames and the built in obsolescence of modern bikes. Another advantage of older steel bikes is the availability of parts at a fraction of the cost of modern components. Good quality should last a lifetime and by all indicators my steel bikes will comfortably outlive me.
At this point it’s up to steel manufacturers and possibly the automotive industry suppliers if steel bicycle frames make a comeback. It would be interesting to see what can be done with the latest high strength steels. I believe the issue becomes ease of manufacturing.
Before steel makes a comeback, full 3D printed frames will have taken the high end market.
Nice review. I am curious why not a Colnago Master? A completely traditional frame that should be easy to equip with a modern group set (sans disc brakes). Yes, if you go with the Precisa fork, you would have more weight but even for its time, the steel is as light as it's going to get. Not sure why a press fit BB is important.
Simple! And I said this on the video. This is an evaluation of a modern steel frame build with modern bike attributes such as tapered head tube and press fit oversized bottom bracket.
Simply to evaluate how it works. It's not to say these things are better... but to see how they work.
While the Master is a great bike that I admire it does not have modern build attributes. Thanks for watching👍🏾
Great video! I have been riding nothing but steel for the past 10 years. Add Pegoretti to your list. I owned one for about 5 years. My current steel bike is a custom built by Dave Kirk. Best bike I have every thrown my leg over!
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Great video as always kind sir! As a Belizean myself, I wanna hear more about this Team Belize haha
Didn't know you were from Belize. I ride with some upu your strong hommies down here👍🏾
Metal + rim brakes. Best choice. 👍🏻
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I am a steel frame fan. I went through several carbon frames because they just don't feel right to me. I learned to race on steel frames. Steel frames give me information about what is happening as I ride that aluminum, titanium and carbon fiber don't give me. Steel frames can out live all of us, the other materials have an expected, usually over estimated, life expectancy. Carbon fiber might be great for professional racers but do us mortals really need a high cost disposable bikes?
Thanks for sharing
My favourite and most ridden bike is my 1994 steel colnago road bike - Columbus Thron. I also own a 2022 carbon specialized and an alloy Bianchi with carbon fork 👍
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I'm in the same place,I want a HIGH quality steel frame for a custom build and the market doesn't advertise steel frames anymore 😕😮 Just subscribed 🎉
Thank you Michael!
I just built up a Fairlight Strael with Ultegra Di2. Just finished a double century last Saturday. That bike rides and feels so much better than my previous, aluminum Cinelli Semper. My next steel frame I'm looking into is the Affinity Anthem stainless road frameset.
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Thank you for posting this! I feel like a Luddite riding a steel frame but when I see people nervously asking about a scratch or ding in their carbon frame to be told that it’s shot from what would be nothing to a steel frame, I know I made the right choice.
I guess carbon fiber wouldn't make it as a commuter bike or as a kid's bike. Oddly enough, I see BMX bikes from carbon fiber for sale.
Hi, greetings from Germany. Last year I build an old steel frame bike with some vintage components . It is a columbus cinelli frame.
It looks very good. Steel is best material for bikes.
Thanks for this video!!
Luis, I love the Salsa skewers, and your riding campy! awesome. Thanks for your channel, looking at doing a steel build and love your aesthetics. I had a Colnago Master X-Light, epic riding machine, and even raced it, super bike.
Thank you! The Master is indeed an amazing bike👍🏾
Steel is a magical material. Most folks don't know what they are missing. I ride a Speedvagen from 2016 with SR12 mech....does everything extremely well. Great video.
Thanks for sharing 👍🏾
The real problem is carbon bikes are cheaper to manufacture. The second problem is it is easier to add gimmicks so companies can say this bike is faster.
My next bike is going to be custom made steel. (Maybe I will get lucky and I will be able to buy a printed titanium bike. That would be nice.)
I used to have a 531 lugged steel bike. I am sorry I got rid of it. Can you believe i had to take that bike twice to get the rear triangle realigned after a crash. Today the bike companies would be dancing if I crashed.
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Gunnar (off the peg sizing) and Waterford (custom sizing) were missing from your list. Waterford manufactured the Schwinn Paramount frames - really high quality frame building.
Deda, Columbus and Reynolds all still manufacture tubes for top quality race bikes - unfortunately not enough people buy them…
Breadwinner from Portland OR. Gorgeous steel frames using Columbus tubing. Vanilla & Speedwagen are the same company in Portland
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Lovely bike, Luis! My only gripe with modern steel bikes is that they come with carbon fiber fork, which makes whole enterprise a little bit moot. Gimme steel fork any day of the week! Fork plays a crucial role in quality of the ride and the way carbon fork soaks up the chatter without transferring grip feedback makes for rather dead feeling in the front. Also, in wet full steel frame + fork combo grips better. Everyone talks about ride quality, stiffness, weight, etc, but no one mentions the grip. "Laterally stiff yet vertically compliant" carbon frames are too rigid to grip on slippery surfaces, so these lose traction earlier. No such problem with steel. The steel frame/fork bike with grippy tires will grip better than carbon frame/fork on the same wheels with the same tire set.
Thanks for sharing that. I can see the steel fork benefit in certain applications but in the way I ride I have found the benefits of the carbon fork suits me. I have ridden steel frames with steel forks as recent as a year ago but I preferred the carbon fork.
I also like having that weight out of the front end. 👍🏾
Absolute true.. Forks is essential and very difficult to calculate. Thats why only few brave like Richard Sachs are able to produce the whole bike. There is a big difference in between frame builders and bike builders. As long as I know there are only 5 people who are able to do the whole bike and not only a fancy frame!
I have two steel road bikes (Gunnar's) - one with carbon fork and one with the stock steel fork. The steel fork takes the steel feel to another level in comfort.
Soma Fabrications offers their Fog Cutter endurance road frame with a matching carbon or lugged steel fork. I don’t know of any non custom brand that does that.
@@visualpun650 nice of them to give a consumer the option.
Some classic steel Japanese manufacturers still make performance bikes made of steel and some are still big like Panasonic but they are limited to the Japanese market.
You have Yasujiro Tange, one of the pillar of steel frame making having some high performance models albeit quite pricey.
Panasonic (which is probably the biggest bicycle manufacturer in Japan due to all the city mamacharis and ebikes) has a unique custom order system with a lot of frames in the catalog that are either steel or titanium and you can choose among several class of components and I have seen stuff like Ultegra. Then you can choose your custom paint job too!
Example: ua-cam.com/video/W9WymGIJKOs/v-deo.html (sorry the narration is in Japanese but you can still get the vibes)
I think it helps that they have a strong keirin culture that persists and is still on Cro-moly frames. I would still consider it a niche though, you have a lot of steel die-hard fans here but most of the performance road cyclists still choose carbon.
Thanks for sharing👍🏾
Love steel! I have a Stinner Gibraltar. Great Bike. Full Campy electronic Super Record. Aaron Stinner is a builder out of Santa Barbara, CA. Excellent quality. I've owned it for about 5 years. It offers an outstanding ride. The quality is superb. I would recommend anyone searching for a custom steel bike to take consider Stinner.
They made a great ad a few years back with bikes and longboards descending a canyon road... it was great with Vivaldi 4 seasons playing as audio track... I digress, thanks for sharing👍🏾
Most interesting segment of the hobby,thanks for the excellent overview!
Thanks for watching 👍🏾
One more personal opinion, when pair steel frames with carbon wheels the ride characteristics change dramatically, all that steel feeling is gone , high quality alloy wheels with 28mm tires is the way to go for me. Thoughts?
I have done both and I didn't find the steel feeling to be gone. Zipp 303 vs Fulcrum racing zero and the performance was very similar.👍🏾
Can I highlight Cicli Barco?
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Breadwinner Cycles in Portland OR makes custom cycles special order. My son purchased a Lolo model last year and loves it. They built it based on his Retul measurements, paint scheme, wheel/hub/spoke, gear set etc. Arrived in perfect condition. I need one for myself now!! ;)
Very cool! Thanks for sharing👍🏾
Great content. Ive got my Battaglin Portofino being delivered in the next few week. Beautiful bike. Can't wait to ride it. Looking for a more comfortable ride now im in my mid 50s
Wow, congratulations on that acquisition. It will make a great build👍🏾
Mosaic builds Ti and St frames
And Carbon. The Atlas and Helius👍🏾
They will pry my Ritchey Road Logic out of my cold dead cleats .. lol. Its all in the legs and heart, not so much the $10k plastic bike.
Legs and heart matters most, but you mean to tell me a 2 kg and aero advantage doesn't make a difference? I switch between five bikes all the time and beg to differ
@@Shadowboost Oh, of course if you are racing and serious weight and aero matters. But if you don't race I think comfort and ride 'feel' are the larger considerations.
@@shannonparker7404 I don't race, but trying to beat my Strava records (going back over 10 years) is what gets me out on the bike every day (I guess you could call that serious). Some days, I feel like taking it easy, Zone 2. I'll take out the heavy slow bikes, not because they're more comfortable, or have better ride feel, but just because they're different. I have a bunch of road bikes in the garage made of every material, but an aero bike or a light bike IS comfortable because I can push out far less watts (on the flats or in the climb) and keep my heartrate low. I've ridden filling chattering frames with 23c tires at over 120 psi. Anything in comparison to that is plenty comfortable.
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At the beginning the Covid epidemic Greg Lemond dug out an old inventory unused Washoe frame and built it for me with a Campag groupset
The bike is pure magic. It is so magic that it is the only one of my bikes that make me want another 5k at the end of my daily ride. As an unfit 76 year old with “health problems” that magic bike is a life saver. Greg and his son Scott behaved like old friends to an old fan who reached out to them. I told him that after the Armstrong-Trek treatment of Greg I never wanted to ride my Trek bikes again. He immediately told me that riding the bike was more important than fussing about the past. What a gentleman!!!!
I’ve been riding my Eddy Merckx steel frame for 30 years now. Love it still.
Nice!
7k miles into my Mason Resolution, and I love it. As long as you have a good groupset and wheelset/tires, the rest is negligible. The biggest factor in speed and performance really comes from how often you ride and training.
Great videos! I'm a fan of steel bikes in general and have a couple Serottas currently.. a couple makers you left off your list is Sycip in Santa Rosa, CA and Mike DeSalvo in Ashland, OR.. both have been building for a while and make some beautiful bikes! Thanks!
I second Mike DeSalvo's bikes. I had a custom steel DeSalvo road bike built by Mike in 2001. Lovely bike and I'm still riding it. Upgraded the components and wheels, but the frame and fork are original. No desire to get another bike.
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Awesome. I wish there were more steel frames out there. I love my Lemond And KHS Reynolds 853 steel road bike frames.
So do I! You have inspired many, including myself, to love on these steel frames... old and new. Thanks for watching 👍🏾
I recently bought a steel Bombtrack Hook gravel bike. I’m loving it.
Nice! Enjoy the rides 👍🏾
I had a similar experience with Cinelli reached out about buying a Superstar frameset been waiting a few years for a reply
Edit- on a side note just found your channel, really like the no nonsense content I’ve consumed so far!!
I have ridden Mercian (Derby UK) since 1971. My oldest bike, still riding is a 1973 (this November 50 years ) Vigorelli track bike (61Cm) Reynolds 531 track bike. 74 x 74. Very stiff and easy to propel to 40 k . Even had the opportunity to ride on the Atlanta Speedway (28 degree banks). Had it resprayed and ride it with more modern Record Pista than the 1973 Record Pista. I built up with Record low flange 32 x 3 tubular rims. My Mercian (2009 and 85 K miles) Velocitia 853 pro and Dedacci carbon rear end ride as smooth as my Bianchi Specalissmo (2019 and 22 k miles). Both are Campagnolo record with either Eurus or Shamal, Thompson seat post, stems and carbon bars. So using similar groups and wheels you can see and feel the differences (in my case) are moot. No tracking, wiggling, slop or shimmying down hills (50 k or more).
There's a brand out of Indiana, east of Indianapolis, called STS Bicycles that has started making frames that straddle the endurance/gravel and performance fence. They market it as gravel, but some of the locals who have one don't see any reason it couldn't be raced in a crit.
Thanks for sharing👍🏾
Recently sold my carbon race bike and built up a Ritchey Logic. By far the nicest bike I’ve riden, I’m in love with it.
Ritchey's are iconic! Thanks for sharing👍🏾
You're doing some worthwhile videos! And lucky to have that Bianchi. I have a 1994 TIG-welded Bianchi made of Columbus tubing that they offered for only one year. Still a great bike. I also have a 1991 Alfana with a lugged-steel Tange frame, the last one built in Japan. I suspect the bike industry forcing people to buy carbon fiber frames with disc brakes and tubeless tires will ultimately turn many potential cyclists away from the sport. With Waterford closing, another domestic steel frame builder isIndependent Fabrication in Lynn, MA. Keep up the good work.
Thank you for sharing that. Yes, Waterford shuttering is very unfortunate 👍🏾