Kiss: 'The Elder' - is it really that bad?
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- Опубліковано 10 лис 2022
- In 1981 Kiss delve into concept album territory, but is this a misunderstood classic, or a piece of ill judged folly?
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It's not really a Kiss album in the sense we understand it. I've always really liked it. It's a real gem.
😂🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
I unironically and unapologetically LOVE this album. Under The Rose is a banger begging for a killer cover by someone.
Amen
Agreed, I love the album for being heavier than usual KISS albums. Under the Rose is great
I know the female Metal singer Doro covered Only You
Still in my top 5 Kiss albums. Mr Blackwell, I, Under the Rose. Great stuff.
I thought mr Blackwell would have been in my imagination a great new song for Gene to spit blood to .
I loved this album from begining and still on this day think its top ten best albums! 😍🥰❤
I am probably in the small camp of Kiss fans that like this album. There's no question the band lost it's way after the excess of the late 70s. After the solos and the rollercoaster of Dynasty and Unmasked they had lost their way. They probably thought bringing Ezrin back into the fold after the Destroyer success would revitalize the band. Umm no. They had a heavier path they were going with harder tracks that ended up showing up on Killers but Ezrin wanted to scrap all that. It was easy to stroke Gene's ego and The Elder likely started his foray into Hollywood. I still think it has some outstanding material. Dark Light is a killer Ace Frehley song with a face melting solo and the duo of Only You and Under The Rose are powerful tunes. The Oath rocks harder than anything on the album. But there are some misteps. Is it one of the best Kiss albums ever? Maybe lower top 10 but it's better than anything from 84 to 92 and the last 2 albums. It can't reach the first six. Only Creatures Of The Night has done that. But it's not bad and honestly it's actually pretty good in most spots. Just needed a bit more work and a better sound and fleshed out story
Better than anything 84-92? Are you drunk? I love The Elder but it's not better than anything else KISS ever did. Obviously you haven't listened very well. Revenge is STRONG. HiTS and Asylum are good. Animalize is good. Monster is excellent amd Sonic Boom is good. You fairweather fans really need a dose of reality. And please get your head out from between Ace's legs, smdh
I think Revenge was a good album. People said that it was Kiss' "grunge attempt." Sounds like metal to me.
@@lorddrac_dontaskmetodanceI think people consider carnival
Of souls more of a blatant attempt to go w the grunge trend.
I sort of stumbled upon Kiss as a not so guilty pleasure during the pandemic and I wound up picking up all the studio albums from the first 10 years. The "makeup" years. My favourite three-album run is Unmasked, The Elder and Creatures of the Night. For some reason those three resonated with me the most over more obvious hits like Destroyer or Love Gun.
One of Kiss's 2 studio masterworks. I never understood the hatred heaped on this album by many, even the band itself. I have similar feelings for Monster by R.E.M.
to understand the "hatred" , is to understand the context of the time period. KISS had gone into merchandising/pop music oblivion which alienated the original hardcore fans. this in turn led to dismal sales, because KISS had been disappointing the original fans since 1978.
so yes, the fans generally didn't "hate" it (hate , the word is thrown around nowadays as a substitute to "dislike", you can dislike something without "hating" it) , they just didn't think much of it and didn't buy it.
it was a letdown back then. I however really have liked the album since the 1990s. I was too little to even know what was an album in 1981.
The Elder..Not good..This is what one gets trying to be a pleaser
The Oath is a great song.
as a 12 yr old boy living in Australia at the time ... I loved The Elder , and was their with KISS every step of the way through the fantasy world .... Still dig it to this day when played in track order as intended .. you get the feel for what they were doing .,....
If they had somehow released this anonymously, perhaps under the name 'Skis', it would be heralded as an obscure and wonderful gem.
My uncle ran a record business marketing company in the 80s. Record companies would hire my uncle and his team to do very specific marketing for certain albums; essentially their job was to try to goose reported sales. Back before every single album sale was tracked through SoundScan, Billboard and other outfits that created the hot 100 list of albums and singles would simply called a hundred or so record stores across the country and ask them what was selling well and asked for sales estimates. Then the extrapolated that info for the entire country.
As you can imagine it was ripe for abuse. Enter my uncle and firms like his. They generally knew the record stores billboard would call, and they would call them as well. They would say "Hey, how is that Night Ranger Album is doing? It's way overperforming in the midwest, I imagine you'll see a bunch... is it doing ok? Do you want me to send you guys some store displays? I could send along some autographed albums... did I ask you how Night Ranger is doing?"
The hope would be when Billboard called a few days later, Night Ranger would be on their mind and they might tell Billboard "I think Night Ranger is doing good; we must have sold, I don't know, 100 albums this week..."
Mission accomplished.
Anyway, my uncle was hired to promote Kiss: Music for the Elder. Now my uncle loved music but he knew very little about KISS or how or why this album was different. Later he told me it was the most painful album to promote in his entire career. Each store he called it was clear they hadn't sold ANY of the albums. They kept asking him "What the fuck IS this?" And of course my uncle had no idea it was a concept album for a movie that didn't exist (or whatever the hell it was). But the record stores were actively angry at the thing. They didn't know what to do with it or how to get people to buy the thing. And they were yelling at my confused uncle about it. Sigh.
I didn't hate the album but it's definitely pretty low on the canon for me. But far and away the WORST album my uncle promoted--and he did such a good job that they gave him a platinum album for his efforts: Starship's "Knee Deep in the Hoopla" featuring "We Built this City."
Yes my uncle played his part in making sure the worst "rock" song ever and the album it was on sold MILLIONS.
You're welcome.
I actually liked that Starship song and album!
My first and still my favourite Kiss album, the whole concept idea never really bothered me, and really not real substance to the story, especially I think the vinyl and cd version have a different order to the track listing, but I appreciate the songs on the album. The Oath, I and World without heroes are great Kiss songs. Maybe this album is really a bridge to get back to the likes of Creatures, plus the additional new tracks in between found on the Killers part compilation. The Elder always seem to be dismissed in rankings, I do wonder if many have actually listened to it more than once.
I remember being in 3rd grade when this album came out! I got it day of release and brought it to school the next day! Kiss in 1981 at my elementary school was still a big band! My friends and I loved the album! The time kiss was on Fridays and solid gold tv shows was heavily talked about at my school! I personally have great memories of this album! Wish they had toured for it! Still play it occasionally
As a Prog Frog 🐸 Knob of a God, I’ve always loved Music From The Elder. In fact, it’s my favorite KISS album. (Followed by Creatures, Destroyer & Revenge.) To each, their own, as the cliché states.
I remember sneaking into the kitchen as a wee lad - okay, maybe not so wee - to watch KISS on the USA TV show, Fridays. (The show kinda/sorta also aided and abetted the creation of the TV series Seinfeld, but that’s another story altogether.) At any rate, there l was, rocking out to KISS, in their wacky kabuki face paint, as my family slumbered. Working in a record store a tad later, l finally heard the record in its entirety and fell in love with it.
That’s just my personal origin story with KISS and their much maligned Music From The Elder mishmash of mishegoss! I dig the songs and the melodies and as Bobby Brown would say, “It’s my prerogative!” All you gators 🐊 can drink your Haterade, I’ll see ya later, in the funny papers!
Cheers from nutty Noo Yawk, ova heyah!
=8^ )
I remember my cousin and I gifting each other Unmasked and The Elder for Christmas. To this day my cousin says I got the better of that deal since I received The Elder. I agree and have always liked The Elder, even as an 11 year old kid when it came out.
I loved this album the moment it came out. Sure, some songs are not so great, but there are enough to make it fantastic. HOWEVER, for Kiss - maybe not the ideal album to make. Of course, Creatures Of The Night would right the ship creatively and bring them back to pure "Kissness". I must say that I discovered Kiss when Dynasty came out. And I love the trilogy of Dynasty/Unmasked/Elder - and if you add Creatures - it's an excellent run. Paul and Gene's writing on Unmasked definitely verges on the cusp of "prog/melodic rock".
2:34 - I always wonder if this album would have been more palatable had Creatures of the Night been released first, after Unmasked, and THEN MftE as the follow-up
Following Unmasked, like you said the band had started the push for the next album wanting to go back to a hard rock sound like their early albums, and to that extent in interviews dropped hints that they were going to make the next album one of their heaviest albums ever; that was definitely the direction they were initially going to go in, since in subsequent interviews Ace has always said that he felt sticking to that original plan was the way to go, but that he was overruled because since Eric Carr was essentially a hired gun/employee of the band, he didn't have decision-making power and Ace got overruled 2-1 by Gene and Paul.
Imagine if, with the buildup of "the return of classic KISS", they then release Creatures of the Night? And in doing so, having established that the "KISS of old" was back, what if they THEN do the vanity project next?
Maybe it goes down better, maybe it doesn't; we'll never know because instead, hot on the heels of Dynasty (which really is not a bad album at all) and Unmasked, KISS's fans (whatever were left) get a poor-man's Genesis or Pink Floyd album and just left in droves, abandoning the band.
And the truth is that MftE probably wound up hurting the record sales for Creatures, since the fans felt lied to and didn't buy the noise coming from the KISS camp *again* that they were going to go heavier, since at that point they probably felt that "fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice, shame on me", and avoided Creatures when it came out.
Which is really unfortunate, because although Lick It Up was considered their comeback album of sorts, it *really* was Creatures, which IMHO is a superior album to, and a heavier album than, Lick It Up.
George, you said everything I wanted to say. Thanks..
I loved The Elder when I received it for Christmas in 1981 and I still love it today. The only thing I didn't like was that it had no band pictures on the gatefold.
When I got this album in 1981 I thought it was... ok. Didn't love it, didn't hate it. It was weird. But I wasn't surprised as Kiss was already a chameleon band to me. were they raw rock and roll? heavily produced rock? Disco? Bubble gum? R&B? Yes to all. So this was their attempt at being "serious". Didn't know the running order had been messed up.
But when I purchased the CD re-relase with the right running order, I gained a whole new appreciation for it. The music just flows much more pleasantly. The "story" such as it is, is just as generic, choppy and fuzzy as ever, but that doesn't bother me. I've always wondered how much was dropped during production.
I think Gene brought his A game here, Only you and Under the Rose are my favourites from the album. Today I like it quite a bit. A great background listen.
I didn’t get into KISS until ‘83 when they dropped the makeup at age 11. So for me, going and buying their old albums was an unknown adventure. I started with albums like Destroyer, Alive and Double Platinum, and loved what I heard. The last few I bought were the Elder and Unmasked. There of course was no internet back then, so there was really nothing to go and research anything about them for me. My reactions to both records were essentially “what the hell is this?” I will say that I thought the Elder was better than Unmasked, since at least it had a heavier sound in a lot of the tracks.
As time has gone by, I like both albums a lot now. I think the Elder was a good idea, but definitely the wrong time to try it. Maybe if they had done something like this when they were still huge may have had better results. Maybe not. But it was doomed before it was finished, because the fans were just about to jump ship. And being promised a back to roots heavy album, the fans had every right to bail. Like I said, I do enjoy it now, and can appreciate what they were trying to do. It’s not a bad record to me, it just didn’t feel like a KISS record.
Love this record.
I could talk about this all day but I want to be super brief. It's not close to their best. I'm not sure if it's close to their worst either. It's got some serious cheese in it as do most of their albums actually. I freakin' love KISS but I'm sane enough to know this. I don't feel that the narrative of the album is broken because I feel it was never assembled properly in the first place.
Ace said that "it's not a bad album but it is a bad KISS album." That's really the best way to say it.
Here's something I can say as a KISS fan. At some point in my life, I've lost my copy of Crazy Nights and Hot In The Shade. If I had lost my copy of Monstet and Sonic Boom, out of all four of these albums, in order for me to replace any of them, they would have to be practically free. That said, I'd be interested in The Elder getting a deluxe boxed set although I would only shell out for the double disk version. In fact, I would love for that to happen to be honest.
Those are my run of the mill thoughts for a run for the hills album. The dog is ugly, but there's something cute about him, and Gene and Paul are no less delusional today than they were when The Elder was made. Ace has some unheard tapes though. They should put something special together; I'd buy it.
You're seriously underrating HiTS, Sonic Boom and Monster by the way
@@brianstrutter1501 Haha..I'm not underrating them at all, but rather just generalizing my personal rating for them. Something has to be at the top of the list, some in the middle and some has to be at the bottom, right? On my list, those studio albums are at the bottom. If I was playing KISS for somebody for the first time, I wouldn't be playing any of those records anytime soon. Don't get me wrong, I'll still listen to them on my own from time to time to see how I feel because I love KISS. But as it stands today, there is nothing there I am proud enough to say, "check this out" for someone who has only heard a couple of hits on the radio. If I came across someone who was a fan but hadn't heard those ones before, I'd happily spin it all for them. I'd play them whatever they wanted to hear.
KISS was my band, growing up. I've paid for all of their records, VHS's and replaced the VHS's with DVD's. I've seen and heard it all a million times, I've seen every lineup of KISS in concert and something is at the bottom of my list (not including solo albums or hit compilations) which happens to be those four records. What can I tell you? 9 times out of 10, I'm going to spin something else. Lol. ☺
...oops, I never saw Vinnie or Mark St. John. FYI. 😉👌
@@zephyrsonzephyrson8618 - i understand they're not the first albums to spin for someone. Doesn't mean they're not good. There definitely some excellent songs on each of those albums. Yes there has to be a bottom 4. Mine is Dynasty, Unmasked, Crazy Nights and The Elder. Not that i dislike those albums but they do not have that KISS sound so i don't consider them 100% KISS albums therefore the bottom 4. At least HiTS, Sonic Boom, Monster and even Psycho Circus have that core KISS sound. Sure PC could have been better but Ace and Peter don't make it better. 2 Gene songs should have been canned, YWTB and Journey. Everything else is actually pretty good on that album. People habe unrealistic expectations sometimes. They'll be open minddd about Dynasty yet slam Monster. Oh please Monster kicks some butt. Dynasty pales in comparison mainly due to the disco/pop/rock
@@brianstrutter1501 I understand and I'm glad that you like what you like. There are two songs on SB and two songs on Monster that I happen to like quite a bit. And since I know what they are, what I said was those albums would have to be practically free in order for me to replace them, if I ever lost them. For me, if you took the best of PC, the best of SB and the best of Monster, you've got one very good average length KISS album. Actually I'm not a huge fan of PC either but what I like, about it, I like more than SB and Monster. As for Dynasty and Unmasked, hear you. For me, I discovered those in my youth and at the time, my collection was super thin. In fact, Dynasty and Lick It Up were my first two purchases as a kid so those were my only albums for a while. Obviously I played the hell out of those. Unmasked was given to me around that time, eventually, so I really do like what they have to offer. Then I found Double Platinum, Love Gun and Alive which changed the game. But today, I actually prefer Dynasty, Unmasked and The Elder over the albums we're really talking about for another reason. Those are examples of KISS stepping out of their wheelhouse and trying something new (Carnival of Souls, too for that matter). SB and Monster and PC are examples of KISS trying something old. They recycle a few riff ideas which is fun to hear (on SB), but the album doesn't cut it for me...even if the cover is inspired by RARO. I see what they tried to do but...meh. And then KISS literally compared Monster to Destroyer. I'm not saying this, THEY did and there is nothing anybody can tell me to back up such a claim. Of course they want to hype up the album during release but comparing it to Destroyer? Good God. Anyways, I'm getting off topic here. We can't agree on everything but we can agree that we like the band who cater to all sorts of fans. I would give up SB, PC and Monster as albums for one album that consisted of the songs PC, Within, Into The Void, Journey, Animal, Hell Or Hal and Long Way Down, for starters. Oh and maybe their cover of Do You Remember RnR Radio? KISS are great at doing covers.
Got the album the day it was released (in Norway) with the "messed up" song order. Had been a fan since 79 with Dynasty beeing the first album I heard and got. My mother got me "Unmasked" on release, but "The Elder" was the first album I really purcased for own money. And I have loved it ever since. Not as much as "Unmasked", but close. Maybe it's just nostalgia, but those two albums have gotten their fair spin on my player. Can't see anything wrong with trying something different. But I can understand the fans from the 70's beeing shocked by their band doing this. At least it have finally gotten some of the credit it deserves, a little or lot too late.
This is KISS’s Dungeons and Dragons album. It is in and of it’s time. There is plenty of pretentious garbage but also some great material. I am glad it is in their canon of work as it adds an extra dimension to their catalog. Not good as a steady staple but a nice one-off. Don’t count it out!
It’s not THAT Kiss music but songs like “under the rose, a world without heroes and the oath” are real gems
Ace’s solo on Dark Light is amazing and one of his best. As for the album as a whole, it’s definitely at the bottom of the remarkably deep KISS discography.
This is the best thing Kiss has ever done . Brilliancy at its best
I completely disagree. The subject matter lends itself to Kiss’ comic book personas. If this came out after the success of Welcome to my Nightmare and Destroyer, it might have been a different story. Imagine this recording done at the same time as the Destroyer sessions, with Ezrin cracking the whip like he did on Destroyer and maybe Peter Criss singing A World Without Heroes. I do agree that it was the wrong move to make in 1981 after the failure of Unmasked.
A fanatic I was. I started listening in 1977 seen them first in 1979 in Chicago Illinois US . Judas Priest opened for them I was 13 I went on to see them 26 times total over the years. I bought into everything KISS they could do no wrong so I loved The Elder. Then in my 30s I sold my huge KISS collection at a KISS convention. I soon after stopped listening much, then I seen them one last time during the reunion 1996. Then stepped away from them for the most part at this point I agree The Elder was not good. But recently I started to appreciate it a bit more. It’s not great but it’s ok.
This album is a masterpiece never heard it before a month ago
I'm not a "huge fan" and I originally hated The Elder, but I've come to appreciate it over the years. I like it better than anything after "Asylum". Yes, that includes Revenge (my 2nd least favorite after Hot In The Shade). Thanks for the video!
How can you not like Revenge? Smdh
I’m even weirder and like Carnival more than Revenge
I was 9 when this came out, a die hard KISS fan and also being a massive fan of SAID " THE WALL" as well as Parsons' I Robot, I completely understood what it was about! I loved it and still do.
I hadn't bought a Kiss album since Rock And Roll Over was released, when I saw them perform "A World Without Heroes" on a T.V. show. I think the show was called Fridays. I kind of liked the song and went out and bought The Elder album. Big mistake, although I do like "Under The Rose" quite a bit. Never bought another Kiss album after that.
Once I heard this in it`s proper intended order as on the remastered version I fell in love with it. I didn`t get it until decades later.
Love your analysis here, spot on 👍👍
I always liked this album - Heck Lou Reed co wrote some songs and Bob Ezrin produced it -- there's some good rockers like the oath- Dark light and I- I'd say it's just a misunderstood album .. I always loved the mysterious album cover too 💋
Good and honest review! As one who performed a vocal cover of Odyssey for the charity KAOL (KISS Army OnLine) project, I’d be lying if I didn’t say I enjoy (on occasion) going along the sonic path of The Elder. Only You, Mr Blackwell and others, particularly The Oath, are worthy of some respect. And while I agree the Escape is great (love Eric on it but he’s in general awesome), I’ve never been a fan of Dark Light. Ace’s more gritty vocals in the spirit of Save Your Love, Hard Times and his solo record are more to my taste.
In high school I really got into Heavy Metal & Hard Rock and became interested in exploring Kiss's music in college outside their hits. I discovered this album in 1997 when Kiss remastered their back catalogue so I had never heard the corporate meddling mangled version that was originally released back in '81. I'm also into theatre and enjoyed performing in local amateur musical theatre productions so this just seemed like the 2 worlds of my interests coming together.
If they had fleshed out the plot more in the liner notes, I think the context would strengthen the concept part of the album but even as it is (in the remastered, originally intended version at least!), it has a certain flow and I enjoy the tunes. Yes, there is a ton of OTT bombast and some rather head scratching lyrics, but if someone made, I dunno, maybe an animated version of the story with a version of Eric Carr as the protagonist, the new kid joining The Order of The Rose (aka him joining Kiss the band) and becoming "The Fox" avatar... Make the medieval ship setting as a metaphor for the band metaphorically sailing stormy seas... It could become something better than the general perception of it is. It could be a nice tribute to Eric Carr RIP who deserves to be acknowledged more as being part of rescuing the band from their slump.
Creatures of the Night is such an incredible comeback album even if it didn't get the recognition it should have at the time. Removing the makeup for Lick it Up managed to resurrect the corpse of Kiss but it owes a lot to Creatures for turning things around and Carr was a huge part of helping bring their sound into the '80s.
Great album... As is Unmasked and Dynasty. Great pop/rock songs.
I was pleasantly surprised by this album.
This review is hysterical!!! I actually love this album, but I completely understand why people hated it.
Loved it from the 1st time on played on Xmas day
The 40th anniversary song order is much better, imo. Builds up gradually instead of up & down like the original release. Should have been released this way originally. In 1974 while on tour, Gene smoked a number with the guys from Rush and Neil slipped him an envelope with a little something he was working on. But it suited Kiss' musical style better in Neil's mind. Gene forgot about it after his Passage to Bangkok with the trio, hence remaining drug free the rest of his life. He found the envelope several years later. True Story. I love both versions of the album. Managed to see Creatures of the Night on tour a little later. Eric had some chops...Rush 3x as well.
I was just listening to this again yesterday. I loved it when I was a kid and after listening to many of their albums yesterday, I decided it's probably one of the best in terms of songwriting. Most of their other stuff sounds basically the same, often using the same upbeat bluesy chords. This was quite a detour from that and I loved it. I can see how many of their fans weren't impressed, though.
Gene said in interviews that he was so blown away by the original Star Wars film that he bought a film reel copy which he proceeded to play for whoever came round. That and his love for comic books, fantasy and horror must 've triggered the idea of wanting to make his own 'hero story'. I was a 12/13 year old kid at the time and I lapped up everything that was sci-fi/fantasy/horror. Reading Robert E. Howard's 'Conan, the Barbarian', knowing about Ridley Scott's 'Alien' and 'Landis' 'American Werewolf in London', it was a fantastic time and 'The Elder' fit into that slot perfectly for me then. Also, it had Bob Ezrin's name on it...I might have been very young but I already knew his work from Alice Cooper and of course the 'Destroyer' album so there was no doubt in my mind about buying that album. I occasionally listen to 'World without heroes' because of the Lou Reed collaboration, the Ace tracks are ok too, the big ballad 'Odessey' is Bob Ezrin in full hollywood movie drama mode...it's so over the top, it's actually good. :-) Childhood nostalgia.
Yep. However another album that gets a lot of flack, Dynasty, is one of my favourites.
Many were disappointed when that album came out but I agree I think it’s one of their best actually.
The only problem with this album was it was not something KISS fans wanted in 1981. It simply wasn't what we were looking for from these guys. Note to KISS: We want it NOW... Play The friggen Oath for heaven's sake!
It's good for what it is in my opinion. I grew up in the 77 to 82 makeup era and loved all of those albums, even the 78 solo albums. The Elder has a few gems. Dark light,Under the Rose,The Oath and Only you are my favorites. The song I sounds like classic Kiss except for the rediculous finger snaps instead of an Ace solo in that spot. A good,interesting review
Artists must evolve. And often, this evolution deter their die-hard fans. Having never been a big Kiss fan, I appreciate some of their output and The Elder is not so bad although it's quite a long time I put it on my turntable. I'm going to revisit.
Often people who hate this kind of 180 degrees U turn are the same who would complain if the artist was doing the same thing all over again and again and again. Like many 80's and 2000th good bands.
I think the same of Hot Space by Queen. They had to renew themselves and renew they did. Although it is on the bottom quarter of Queen albums I still love it. And even a "bad" Queen album would be a good album for many other artists.
The Elder is what happens when a band tries to evolve beyond their musical capability. I applaud the ambition , they just didn't have the ability to really make it work.
Good fun, nice review. I've always liked that album and that won't change. It even was the one that got me into Kiss. I love the never ending discussion about The Elder ❤️
In 2006 I met Gene at an in-store and made the mistake of telling him my positive opinion of "The Elder"... DAMN! You shouldda seen the dirty look he gave me! (And, no, he was NOT in his "demon" make-up at that time...!)
Don’t tell me “ that’s six copies we sold then”🥺
Being a sci-fi and longtime Kiss fan, I've always really liked it. Some things definitely work better than others and I can definitely understand why it didn't do well.
It didn't go down well on release but it is a good if different album. No songs about partying or shagging and rocking out, but every other kiss album does those staples to get your fix. I like it and have appreciated it more over the years - especially if you listen to the correct track order storyline wise.
One of my top all time favorite albums ❤
I don’t blame its poor sales entirely on the awkward quality of the record itself, but on the fact that it came after a reputation-battering series of four erratic solo albums and two mediocre, compromised pop-rock LPs. Paul Stanley has said that they made the album as a misguided attempt to prove how talented and creative they were; yet to achieve this illusion they brought in outside songwriters and musicians to prop up the project, ultimately underscoring how talented and creative they *weren’t.* The best thing I can say about Music From The Elder is that it would have been a great Moody Blues album. Seriously - Justin Hayward singing “Odyssey” or “World Without Heroes” isn’t a big stretch of the imagination.
Grievously wounded? Nah. It’s definitely not an album for everyone. For myself, I always rather enjoyed it. It was definitely a major detour but I was more than onboard with the narrative idea they wanted to play with. And it does have some good songs, for sure. Dark Light, absolutely. And Escape From the Island is a banger. I is a pretty solid album closer, and World Without Heroes is actually pretty awesome. Mr Blackwell is pretty standard Gene fare, and The Oath ain’t bad. The course correction to Creatures after this was the correct path, it’s just a shame that Ace wasn’t around long enough to get onto that one.
I actually like it, I don't love it, but I do enjoy the whole thing!
I always thought it was part of a soundtrack to a movie called: The Elder!
MASTERPIECE
Always loved this album. So different from other of their works.
I like a couple tracks but never learned to love the entire album. I think I gave it a fair chance, but maybe I’ll give it another listen and see if aged like a fine wine, or turned to vinegar. 🤘
i avoided this album for years just because of what i always heard about it. then one day i decided to listen to it front to back in the original track order. immediately fell in love with it. i know it isnt for everyone but there really is an atmosphere it brings especially with the use of medieval instruments. kiss has definitely put out some albums after the elder that are a lot worse
I finally heard The Elder in 2008, visiting a friend in Chicago. It was incredible, although PolyGram didn’t do Kiss any favors by resequencing the album to have a Rocker open the album instead of “Overture”. (And I am admittedly not a major league fan of Kiss!)
Just excellent review!
Thank you kindly!
decades later i find out that the Elder is considered to be a bad move for the band. I always liked Mr. Blackwell, Dark light and A world without heroes. I found the cover with the hand a bit strange, but what disappointed me the most: there was never a movie "the elder".
However, they actually did an all Elder show on one of their KISS Kruises.
Idgi man this album is great ... I’m a new KISS fan I mean this is so creative and the songs are so meant to be .. masterpiece
Ace Frehley could only dream of writing songs as good as Gene and Paul's songs.
This is a relic from an era where a lot of these established bands were undergoing a change from old to new. Kiss was in their fox and wizard years. Alice was in his blackout years. Priest and Sabbath were changing their sound. There's numerous other examples as well. It was the time when there was a changing of the guard in rock and a lot of mediocre stuff came out then
I like it more now than I did back in 81 upon 1st listen.
really hilarious and kinda sad at the same time how lost they were . G & P wasnt even drinking or doing drugs , while Ace , doing loads of blow and booze , knew this was a huge mistake , and spoke up against this direction ..but G & P outvoted him , as Eric carr was just a hired gun and had little or no say . there are some great moments on the album though . the listening session for the journalists says it all ..read the story in " kiss & sell "
I really love the Elder album, i want to buy it! I really love under the Rose, only you, Mr Blackwell and other's! I am playing these songs over and over!👹⭐🤓😀😃🤔🤩😍🥰❤️🙂🤓😎🤘🎤🎸
You're right!!! It totally sucks although I luv the solo on world without heroes
I love it too, its the only Kiss album that I can listen to.
The Oath is Epic
This is the best review - I was rolling with laughter.
It’s not a bad KISS album, they were to be found in abundance in the back half of the 80’s. “The Elder” makes more sense hearing the songs in the original running order as it now appears on cd and streaming.
I had a copy & it's better than Dynasty. It seems petty but I think it looked wrong with it not being on Casablanca.I like the reaction of the critics at the airing. Ironic that Paul had reacted in a similar way when played Caress of Steel. Maybe they should re release it with the tracks in the correct story order.
Hated and was completely perplexed when it came out. It was the final straw for me til Lick It Up. Bought the remaster in 97 to complete the collection and found it to be pretty good. Like Carnival of Souls the Elder is good but I don’t consider either a real Kiss album.
This is a top album, kiss fans had sh%t in their ears to boycott it. The guys tried something else with one of the best producer then and the result is a blast in it's own style. That such a shame not to be able to accept some variations in the music of a band. Look at Queen their music changed over the years but the queen touch remains everytime. Kiss tried the same but fans were just enjoying always the same "I want to party and drink" music
Kiss ambition at its best, that’s what this band are all about, well up until Animalize anyway. The timing of this album may have been poor. But I can’t imagine a Kiss discography without it.
The Oath, Dark light, Only You, Under the rose, and Odyssey is spectacular too.
I believe the best way to punctuate this record is for an Allstar band to perform it at MSG.
Rivers Quomo, Dave Grohl, James Hadfield, etc. imagine how many dvd’s that would sell for Kiss.
I bought the album when it came out in 1981,and loved from the first second of music.its a great piece of music,it's not just my opinion it's a fact
great review, however...i really like this album...granted, i'm not much of a kiss fan by any means, but i love the concept, and while not a passion play or thick as a brick, it did give us a chance to journey along with them while gene put down his bankbook for at least half a second....not their sgt. pepper, but a decent try...stay well..peace...rocky
great album
Love The Elder now. Hated it when I bought it upon its release. Great album in retrospect but bad timing to release it after Dynasty and Unmasked while the NWOBHM has been in full bloom.
It's not a bad album. It just doesn't feel like a Kiss album. I feel the same about Van Halen III. Feels like an Extreme album with Eddie Van Halen on guitar.
I always think it’s odd when people say “it’s not what we expect from Kiss”. Did we expect Unmasked? Did fans expect Destroyer when it came out? Did fans expect the solo albums? If this album didn’t have a “concept”, as flimsy as it is, it would be regarded very differently.
LOVE IT! 🔥⭐️⚡️🦊
Bloody love this album, even though the band themselves (and most others) loathe it. Yes, it's probably naff and cheesy, but rock non- believers could reduce most beloved classic rock masterpieces to such condemnations. It would arguably work best as a musical, you know the sort of thing, bung an exclamation mark in there somewhere, like "The Elder!" and watch it get cancelled after one performance. But that would be the kiss (as it were) of death for the tiny amount of credibility that it has managed to scrape up over the decades since its release. Come to think of it, "Kiss of Death" would have been a fantastic title for this album.
Can you review "Chinese Democracy" next please? Another album that is universally panned but I love. Cheers, keep up the brilliant work
At the time, they were still too close to their period of over-saturation. When this came out, it was clear that they didn't get it. It's easier to listen to out of the context its era.
Underrated album
The Elder is far from their worst album, the two albums that closed the 80s, Crazy Nights and Hot in the Shade, haven’t aged well
Disagree. At least CN and HiTS have some rock songs. As much as i like The Elder i just can't rank it higher than any other KISS album
@Abe Froman- lol whatever cupcake. Been a fan for over 40 years, play guitar and can play over 200 KISS songs. I KNOW EXACTLY what I'm talking about. Just because you disagree doesn't mean I'm wrong. Obviously you're the one who's wrong
If you take it for what it is, it's so good.
Perhaps it's just the kind of cheese that appeals to some of us.
Brilliant or blunder, it's a damn fun record IMO.
This album is my favorite
As a kid, and diehard KISS fan, I thought it was amazing. I was stricken by how they reached for something different. I was a 13-14 year old idiot. My memories of it were awesome. So as an adult, I sought it out and listened to it again. I thought "What a load of pompous crap!" Lol.
You were smarter when you were 13-14. Unfortunately happens to a lot of people
I have to say, I just repurchased thus album after owning it on tape. As a kid I didn't mind it. As an adult I understand the 'why' to create something different. Sometimes experiments work, unfortunately for KISS this didn't work out for them. I also like St. Anger by Metallica, so I must like weird stuff...hehe
They were so big that they were allowed to try something new. At least they tried. Respect.
It’s a bit of a strange album. As a Kiss album it’s a too big step away from what the fans wanted, but as an album in general it’s a pretty good one. I bought it as a Kiss fan back in 81 and liked most of it back then - but then, I like the “Unmasked” too. 🤷🏼♂️
I love The Elder
Eric Carr, who had only recently joined the group on drums, replacing original drummer Peter Criss, must have wondered what he had gotten himself into on this, his first studio album with the band. A bizarre, godforsaken mess of an album, totally out of place in the KISS catalogue.... but curiously interesting at the same time.
I like most of the songs on this album much rather listen to the ELDER than Hot in the Shade, Crazy Crazy Nights or Asylum
its good for a movie i like it .