15:52 Hallam: "The causal factor is the proactive creation of a specific culture. What is required is a systematic program of self-purification as Gandhi would call it. We are failing because we do not do this, and we need to start to now. And again, it's not like we don't know how to do it. Every society uses broadly the same methods of cultural education. We start with sessions on the facts and the arguments -- so far, so good -- but then we have to move on to testimonies, visualizations, role plays, and then silence, meditation, and prayer, and then initiation ceremonies, pledgemaking, and support teams. People need to practice transcending themselves, that this, what they're going to do, is not about them, and practice doing so over and over again each week. In fact, we've been socialized into thinking that doing such a thing is brainwashing by our culture, but think about how much brainwashing is required to make people in our culture stand by while plans are made to destroy our children's lives, to destroy a whole way of life. What level of manipulation of evil is needed to turn us into such fearful, helpless, hopeless people that we cannot act in the face of what is now objectively happening? We need, then, a complete rethink about how we train and recruit people for non violence, as it's called. Instead of being persuaded by saying, 'Look, if you do this then that will happen, and that's why you should act,' we should instead suggest, 'If you do this nothing will happen, and that's why you still should do it.'"
This model is inappropriate. A wealthy businessman may resist returning value to impoverished workers but the issue isn’t existential. Asking individuals within civilization to modify their basic lifestyles and mode of interaction is certainly perceived as existential. A hunger strike is useless in this context as anyone is happy to see someone starve who threatens their very existence. As are most forms of conventional social resistance. This is not a rights and values struggle. This is a struggle for survival. As such the common ground is that we all want to survive, the question is in the how. Unfortunately while those who consider themselves at the forefront focus on resistance rather than leadership and the demonstration of viable alternatives there’s certain to be zero progress made. It may even be that resistance as such is useful to maintaining the status quo.
That was interesting! It's a five year sentence; of which, normally you'd serve 3 years in prison, and two years on license. But I don't see how the authorities will be able to let you out on license, given that you have declared an intention to continue committing, and inciting others to commit, criminal acts. I wonder how the spiritual calm you profess to have cultivated might hold out if and when authorities don't approve you for early release, because you made a series of speeches from prison seemingly inciting ten thousand people to commit acts that would send them to jail in order to force political change? Here's a radical thought for you - why not try winning the votes to affect political change? It's called democracy; I assume you've heard of it, but somewhere in your philosophy - make an end run around the idea. What's more interesting than how you come to disregard democracy, is why; why you need to make an end run around democracy. Why you need to force yourself on the political system; rather than win consent. It's the same reason why, you resort to philosophies disdainful of reason. Because your ideas suck; your methods must be unreasonable because your objectives are unreasonable. As I told one of your acolytes: What you did Louise, was incredibly dangerous and foolish. Do you ever think how you'd feel if you'd caused a pile up? I wonder if you'd expiate the guilt by telling yourself the death and destruction was a relatively minor inconvenience compared to the threat of climate change? Has it ever occurred to you, you can justify almost anything with that logic? I have to ask, because in the Guardian article you don't reflect at all on the offences you committed; which frankly, I find somewhere between strange and psychopathic. Do you never ask yourself: "Was I wrong?" Seemingly not; because it's a longish article that reeks of burning martyr from start to finish. But you're not a martyr, Louise, you're an idiot - and I'll tell you why. Firstly, because motorway drivers don't need distractions. You can reach just as many people; maybe more - in a shopping center, without any risk of being responsible for a multi-car pile up. Secondly, Just Stop Oil is funded by Aileen Getty - granddaughter of oil baron John Paul Getty; a fact that paints JSO's widely, and easily criticised disruptive tactics in a very different light. And lastly, thirdly but not least, Earth is a big ball of molten rock. In 1982, Nasa/Sandia Labs demonstrated the technology to harness effectively limitless amounts of constant high grade clean energy from high temperature geothermal sources; easily sufficient to meet global energy demand carbon free forever, plus provide surplus energy to desalinate, irrigate, recycle all waste and capture carbon. This technology has not been developed nor applied - for fairly obvious geopolitical and economic reasons. What's less obvious, and something you might well consider - is why this technology has not been demanded by environmental protest groups at any point in the past 40 years.
Good man, Roger. You can only do the right thing, you can't make anyone else do the right thing, Some old Taoist monk probably once said....
An injury to one is an injury to all. XR Mzansi
15:52 Hallam: "The causal factor is the proactive creation of a specific culture. What is required is a systematic program of self-purification as Gandhi would call it. We are failing because we do not do this, and we need to start to now.
And again, it's not like we don't know how to do it. Every society uses broadly the same methods of cultural education. We start with sessions on the facts and the arguments -- so far, so good -- but then we have to move on to testimonies, visualizations, role plays, and then silence, meditation, and prayer, and then initiation ceremonies, pledgemaking, and support teams. People need to practice transcending themselves, that this, what they're going to do, is not about them, and practice doing so over and over again each week.
In fact, we've been socialized into thinking that doing such a thing is brainwashing by our culture, but think about how much brainwashing is required to make people in our culture stand by while plans are made to destroy our children's lives, to destroy a whole way of life. What level of manipulation of evil is needed to turn us into such fearful, helpless, hopeless people that we cannot act in the face of what is now objectively happening?
We need, then, a complete rethink about how we train and recruit people for non violence, as it's called. Instead of being persuaded by saying, 'Look, if you do this then that will happen, and that's why you should act,' we should instead suggest, 'If you do this nothing will happen, and that's why you still should do it.'"
I think you should look at what the ANC did with this story of ghandi. Chronologically its the next piece of the puzzle.
Thwaites has cracked !!!
This model is inappropriate. A wealthy businessman may resist returning value to impoverished workers but the issue isn’t existential. Asking individuals within civilization to modify their basic lifestyles and mode of interaction is certainly perceived as existential. A hunger strike is useless in this context as anyone is happy to see someone starve who threatens their very existence. As are most forms of conventional social resistance. This is not a rights and values struggle. This is a struggle for survival.
As such the common ground is that we all want to survive, the question is in the how. Unfortunately while those who consider themselves at the forefront focus on resistance rather than leadership and the demonstration of viable alternatives there’s certain to be zero progress made. It may even be that resistance as such is useful to maintaining the status quo.
Labourers and Slaves partake in hunger strikes to damage the Ruling class. When we don't eat we can no longer work.
Give it a rest Roger. Non violent civil disobedience has been a complete fucking failure. We all lost, the world is fucked. 🤦🏽
That was interesting! It's a five year sentence; of which, normally you'd serve 3 years in prison, and two years on license. But I don't see how the authorities will be able to let you out on license, given that you have declared an intention to continue committing, and inciting others to commit, criminal acts. I wonder how the spiritual calm you profess to have cultivated might hold out if and when authorities don't approve you for early release, because you made a series of speeches from prison seemingly inciting ten thousand people to commit acts that would send them to jail in order to force political change?
Here's a radical thought for you - why not try winning the votes to affect political change? It's called democracy; I assume you've heard of it, but somewhere in your philosophy - make an end run around the idea. What's more interesting than how you come to disregard democracy, is why; why you need to make an end run around democracy. Why you need to force yourself on the political system; rather than win consent. It's the same reason why, you resort to philosophies disdainful of reason. Because your ideas suck; your methods must be unreasonable because your objectives are unreasonable. As I told one of your acolytes:
What you did Louise, was incredibly dangerous and foolish. Do you ever think how you'd feel if you'd caused a pile up? I wonder if you'd expiate the guilt by telling yourself the death and destruction was a relatively minor inconvenience compared to the threat of climate change? Has it ever occurred to you, you can justify almost anything with that logic?
I have to ask, because in the Guardian article you don't reflect at all on the offences you committed; which frankly, I find somewhere between strange and psychopathic. Do you never ask yourself: "Was I wrong?"
Seemingly not; because it's a longish article that reeks of burning martyr from start to finish. But you're not a martyr, Louise, you're an idiot - and I'll tell you why. Firstly, because motorway drivers don't need distractions. You can reach just as many people; maybe more - in a shopping center, without any risk of being responsible for a multi-car pile up.
Secondly, Just Stop Oil is funded by Aileen Getty - granddaughter of oil baron John Paul Getty; a fact that paints JSO's widely, and easily criticised disruptive tactics in a very different light.
And lastly, thirdly but not least, Earth is a big ball of molten rock. In 1982, Nasa/Sandia Labs demonstrated the technology to harness effectively limitless amounts of constant high grade clean energy from high temperature geothermal sources; easily sufficient to meet global energy demand carbon free forever, plus provide surplus energy to desalinate, irrigate, recycle all waste and capture carbon. This technology has not been developed nor applied - for fairly obvious geopolitical and economic reasons. What's less obvious, and something you might well consider - is why this technology has not been demanded by environmental protest groups at any point in the past 40 years.