My ancestor was conscripted and served with the "Mormon Battalion" for the Mexican-American War. He wrote in his journal that when they departed, they were not fully outfitted nor armed,but acquired an assortment of arms, and accoutrement along the way through the American Southwest to California. He writes that many carried early smoothbore muskets, but he was given an1841. The only time he fired it in anger was against some wild cattle that were rampaging their bivouac....
Very cool. There is a spot I visit in California where the Mormon Battalion cut a passageway through the rock so their wagons could fit along the Sonora trail on their way to the coast. It is called Box Canyon. You can still see the pick axe marks and wagon ruts as it later became part of the Butterfield mail route it the 1850’s.
@gemmeliusgrammaticus2509 Hi! He writes about getting to what is now San Diego, where they dug, or improved a spring or well, then moved up to Los Angeles, where they mustered out. From there, he, and some others hired on with Sutter, cutting lumber and digging ditches and canals until gold interrupted. Not long after, most missed their families terribly, and made the trek eastbound over the Sierra's, and on to Salt Lake. He ended up teaching school and growing cotton in St George, Utah. Quite a character. Along the way, he learned to speak Spanish, and Piute, and that helped a lot in his travels...
When i hunt with my original Mississippi Rifle (1850) I always use loose powder and a separate oiled patch. Mine is one of the few thats still in its original 54 cal configuration.
Hey, Captain! The cartridge pouch model of 1841 was issued with the Mississippi Rifle. It had a single tin and was smaller than the boxes used for the .69 muskets. They had a loop allowing attachment to a the belt and did not accept a sling. Great work! Love Hungary!
Hello from Detroit Michigan brother thank you for sharing your knowledge and expertise and for taking us on your adventures through history and firearms
Wonderful channel ! Great content. Perfect balance of historical background , technical information, and actual shooting . I really appreciate the effort to reproduce historically accurate loading methods , components and performance . Keep up the great work
Another excellent video/series sir. I appreciate your knowledge and diligence towards historically accurate demonstrations of the weapons you shoot. Thank you.
As a viewer, I love the detail in the information and history provided in each video. I would love to see a team-up between @capandball and @forgottenweapons.
I love this beautiful rifle. I have the Euroarms version that was made in .58 cal., but only likes a .015 lubed patch around a .570 round ball. I made a black leather pouch for it with the same attached brass flask. I also worked on an original contract made rifle that ended up in American Indian possession. It was in the Conservation Dept., National Museum of the American Indian, Smithsonian and had been decorated with small brass tacks. This was a great series.
Once again, another great video in the series! Thank you for your hard work and sharing your experience and passion for these fantastic classic firearms! I have spent many years practicing and hunting with a flintlock rifle. The sharper flint and finer the grain of priming powder, the faster and more reliable your ignition will be… One thing I can tell you for certain is “once you master a flintlock, your shooting will improve with every rifle you shoulder.” Once again, thank you for another great video in the series!
Thank you for this series and the many before. Could the velocity per grain variation you demonstrated be more a result of the method of measuring velocity than the quality and characteristics of the powders? It would make an interesting experiment if a period correct ballistic pendulum and methodology was used for calculating velocity with the modern powders.
The biting of the cartridges you chronographed can waste some of the powder introducing inconsistency. Would it not be better to load the powder, but make the paper short enough so that it does not require biting so the powder fired is whatever load is actually measured?
Hello Cap&Ball fm Texas! Acquired a second contract Whitneyville US1841 mfg'd in 1850 about a year and a half ago. Had to look for quite some time to find one in its' original configuration like yours. Thanks for the chronograph info, I will have to try the 95 grain load with 3FFg Swiss. Have been using 70 to 75 grain loads of both Swiss (MUCH cleaner!) and GOEX with good results at 100 yds but lacked the chronograph info. Did you solve your patch problem? You did not say in this last video. Don't have your issue of the Ordnance Mannuel but have been using "Small Arms and Ammunition in United States Service, 1776-1865" by Berkeley R. Lewis (last published by The Smithsonian Institution in 1956 and 1960) for the paper cartridge info. It seems to show the patched ball (.525) with the lubed patch tail up and then choked with the paper all around it. I have tried both .008 thick muslin and .015 thick pillow ticking with best results with the pillow ticking (My barrel shows a bit more ware than I can see in yours from the videos). I've always loaded with the patch tail up and can pick up the muslin patches as close as 10 or 15 yards out, the pillow ticking twice that or further most of the time. I have not used the paper from the cartridge as wading as only thought that was done in the smooth bores. I also have a Harpers Ferry 1803 rifle put together from a Rifle Shoppe kit which shows about the same results with a new modern made barrel (.530 balls) so know the old originals can still shoot quite well even when showing some ware. When we cool down a bit (102F yesterday) in the fall I want to try to polish the bore a bit in the 1841 as you did and see if I get any improvement, especially in fouling accumulation. Great channel, Thank you for all your efforts! Good luck next week in the match! John Hunt, Cooke County, Texas
Hi John, here is a lint to the 1850 Ordnance Manual: books.google.hu/books?id=g4XcbT6OlhQC&newbks=1&newbks_redir=0&printsec=frontcover&dq=the+ordnance+manual+for+the+us&hl=en&redir_esc=y#v=onepage&q&f=false
@@capandball Thanks for the links, I'll view them first chance I get. Did find a picture in "Round Ball to Rimfire" of your cartridge with the paper choked around the tail of the cloth patch and the top exposed but not much explained in the text. Thinking I'll try to make some up using this method as I believe it will be a bit easier to tie them that way. Thanks, JRH
You would probably need a longer box, depending on the caliber and muzzle velocity. Modern military rifles have published penetration depths against wood. You would need to compare them to see.
Gotta be honest, i have a soft spot for single shots blackpowder rifles. Sure i prefer the ones with brass cases, but muzzleloaders just feel... right.
I have never seen information on flint management, how many you carry, how often they are changed, did you knap the edge? Seems unlikely that 160 years ago they made better powder, is it not more likely that they miss measured the muzzle velocity?
HI, the NEssler ball was skirted expansive bullet designed for smooth bore arms. Very few countries adopted it, and it was quickly phased out when the percussion military rifles were generally adopted.
Speaking as a Texan, the Southern border has ALWAYS been a problem lol. They've never respected the Rio Grande as the border, even well after the Civil War. Hell, they still dont.
Thank you, sir, for the excellent content. I have a couple of questions. How common was it to have problems with the flint using the flintlock muskets? The other is, did you modify your cartridges in any way to correct the problem with the patch not shedding from the ball? Greetings from Texas.
I have several contemporary sources about this. In training circusmstances the ratio of misfires was around 10%, while in combat they counted every 4th shot as a misfire in the Austrian army. The soldier did not knap the flints, but received spare ones with the cartridges.
All this super noisy air pollution, releasing toxic combustion agents into the atmosphere for nothing! How about promoting some electric rifles on your channel??!
The heck did I just read? Swear the only person I can think who can say something like that has to be a college woman student who's never been outside a city before.
My ancestor was conscripted and served with the "Mormon Battalion" for the Mexican-American War. He wrote in his journal that when they departed, they were not fully outfitted nor armed,but acquired an assortment of arms, and accoutrement along the way through the American Southwest to California. He writes that many carried early smoothbore muskets, but he was given an1841. The only time he fired it in anger was against some wild cattle that were rampaging their bivouac....
Very cool. There is a spot I visit in California where the Mormon Battalion cut a passageway through the rock so their wagons could fit along the Sonora trail on their way to the coast. It is called Box Canyon. You can still see the pick axe marks and wagon ruts as it later became part of the Butterfield mail route it the 1850’s.
@gemmeliusgrammaticus2509 Hi! He writes about getting to what is now San Diego, where they dug, or improved a spring or well, then moved up to Los Angeles, where they mustered out. From there, he, and some others hired on with Sutter, cutting lumber and digging ditches and canals until gold interrupted. Not long after, most missed their families terribly, and made the trek eastbound over the Sierra's, and on to Salt Lake. He ended up teaching school and growing cotton in St George, Utah. Quite a character. Along the way, he learned to speak Spanish, and Piute, and that helped a lot in his travels...
Is there a transcription of his journal? It sounds very interesting!
What's a bivouac?
@@ReySchultz121 their camp/tents
It is wonderful to watch something on UA-cam that is historically accurate, interesting, and technical. Thank you.
When i hunt with my original Mississippi Rifle (1850) I always use loose powder and a separate oiled patch. Mine is one of the few thats still in its original 54 cal configuration.
capandball, your hard work is paying off, keep it up
Thank you sir from the Great State of Missouri. Another great video.
Mah zou rah rah rah!
Hey, Captain! The cartridge pouch model of 1841 was issued with the Mississippi Rifle. It had a single tin and was smaller than the boxes used for the .69 muskets. They had a loop allowing attachment to a the belt and did not accept a sling. Great work! Love Hungary!
Hello from Detroit Michigan brother thank you for sharing your knowledge and expertise and for taking us on your adventures through history and firearms
Thanks for covering this classic American rifle
Wonderful channel ! Great content. Perfect balance of historical background , technical information, and actual shooting . I really appreciate the effort to reproduce historically accurate loading methods , components and performance . Keep up the great work
Another excellent video/series sir. I appreciate your knowledge and diligence towards historically accurate demonstrations of the weapons you shoot. Thank you.
As a viewer, I love the detail in the information and history provided in each video. I would love to see a team-up between @capandball and @forgottenweapons.
We afre both part in the History of Weapons and War platform project so it will come.
I love this beautiful rifle. I have the Euroarms version that was made in .58 cal., but only likes a .015 lubed patch around a .570 round ball. I made a black leather pouch for it with the same attached brass flask. I also worked on an original contract made rifle that ended up in American Indian possession. It was in the Conservation Dept., National Museum of the American Indian, Smithsonian
and had been decorated with small brass tacks. This was a great series.
Your videos are always educational AND entertaining. Absolutely love them, and learning something every time I watch one!
Once again, another great video in the series! Thank you for your hard work and sharing your experience and passion for these fantastic classic firearms!
I have spent many years practicing and hunting with a flintlock rifle. The sharper flint and finer the grain of priming powder, the faster and more reliable your ignition will be…
One thing I can tell you for certain is “once you master a flintlock, your shooting will improve with every rifle you shoulder.”
Once again, thank you for another great video in the series!
"once you master a flintlock, your shooting will improve with every rifle you shoulder." 100% true!
Thanks for another excellent, informative video. Love every one of your videos. Good luck in the Championship.
Great Video series. Thanks for showing some of the difficulties in operating a flintlock and showing the advantages of the primer cap loading.
Thank you so much for these very informative and interesting videos the mix of explanation and practical demonstration is first class- thankyou
Wonderful video and well done on the research.
Thanks for the continuing high quality content!
Great lesson! I did learn quite a bit, thank you. I tried giving a 'like ' but to no avail.
HEY! It's my Rifle!
Though mine is Percussion cap and and 58 caliber Civil War era.
Thank you for this series and the many before. Could the velocity per grain variation you demonstrated be more a result of the method of measuring velocity than the quality and characteristics of the powders? It would make an interesting experiment if a period correct ballistic pendulum and methodology was used for calculating velocity with the modern powders.
Probably yes. I have now concerns about the accuracy of the pendulum tests of the 19th century. I'll have to replicate those with building a pendulum.
Excellent!
excellent presentation, the mexican and interwar period is interesting and largely overlooked compared to the war for southern independence
AKA.....The War of Northern Aggression.
@@robertrobert7924 Amen and God Bless Robert E Lee
I like your content very much
Another great video.
Jesteś super. Dzięki
Very informative info.
Great video
The US Cavalry was dismounted at periods during this time. When remounted, they fought as dragoons and fought dismounted.
The biting of the cartridges you chronographed can waste some of the powder introducing inconsistency. Would it not be better to load the powder, but make the paper short enough so that it does not require biting so the powder fired is whatever load is actually measured?
I was careful with the powder column not to waste powder. But your suggestion is a good idea I agree.
you are my favorite modern european
Very educational!🤓 Some noise from the microphone that you have on the t-shirt. It is probably sensitive to movements of the clothes...🎤
Yes, sorry aboutn that. I'll be more careful next time.
That Rifle is good
"Bright Hungarish language"! Brilliant.
You pounded that ball down with the ramrod at least 10 times. Don’t you think that you’re deforming the ball and that might contribute to inaccuracy?
Hello Cap&Ball fm Texas!
Acquired a second contract Whitneyville US1841 mfg'd in 1850 about a year and a half ago. Had to look for quite some time to find one in its' original configuration like yours. Thanks for the chronograph info, I will have to try the 95 grain load with 3FFg Swiss. Have been using 70 to 75 grain loads of both Swiss (MUCH cleaner!) and GOEX with good results at 100 yds but lacked the chronograph info.
Did you solve your patch problem? You did not say in this last video. Don't have your issue of the Ordnance Mannuel but have been using "Small Arms and Ammunition in United States Service, 1776-1865" by Berkeley R. Lewis (last published by The Smithsonian Institution in 1956 and 1960) for the paper cartridge info. It seems to show the patched ball (.525) with the lubed patch tail up and then choked with the paper all around it. I have tried both .008 thick muslin and .015 thick pillow ticking with best results with the pillow ticking (My barrel shows a bit more ware than I can see in yours from the videos). I've always loaded with the patch tail up and can pick up the muslin patches as close as 10 or 15 yards out, the pillow ticking twice that or further most of the time. I have not used the paper from the cartridge as wading as only thought that was done in the smooth bores.
I also have a Harpers Ferry 1803 rifle put together from a Rifle Shoppe kit which shows about the same results with a new modern made barrel (.530 balls) so know the old originals can still shoot quite well even when showing some ware. When we cool down a bit (102F yesterday) in the fall I want to try to polish the bore a bit in the 1841 as you did and see if I get any improvement, especially in fouling accumulation.
Great channel, Thank you for all your efforts! Good luck next week in the match!
John Hunt,
Cooke County, Texas
Hi John, here is a lint to the 1850 Ordnance Manual: books.google.hu/books?id=g4XcbT6OlhQC&newbks=1&newbks_redir=0&printsec=frontcover&dq=the+ordnance+manual+for+the+us&hl=en&redir_esc=y#v=onepage&q&f=false
Here is a flim about the cartridge construction: ua-cam.com/video/reM11hgGtrE/v-deo.htmlsi=3S-N4QtZAzmy_Fck
@@capandball Thanks for the links, I'll view them first chance I get. Did find a picture in "Round Ball to Rimfire" of your cartridge with the paper choked around the tail of the cloth patch and the top exposed but not much explained in the text. Thinking I'll try to make some up using this method as I believe it will be a bit easier to tie them that way. Thanks, JRH
does the box with cotton only work with big slow lead bullets, or does it work with more modern rifles too?
You would probably need a longer box, depending on the caliber and muzzle velocity. Modern military rifles have published penetration depths against wood. You would need to compare them to see.
@@jachse8464 that's a good idea, thanks
Yes. Larger boxes stop even modern hunting bullets. Infact slow and heavy bullets have a better penetration than many of the modern projectiles.
@@capandball Thanks, Sir! That makes sense... Inertia is a hell of a drug!
Gotta be honest, i have a soft spot for single shots blackpowder rifles. Sure i prefer the ones with brass cases, but muzzleloaders just feel... right.
I have never seen information on flint management, how many you carry, how often they are changed, did you knap the edge? Seems unlikely that 160 years ago they made better powder, is it not more likely that they miss measured the muzzle velocity?
There is ongoing research into the black powder of the period. Two other UA-cam channels to watch are Everything Black Powder and Paper Cartridges.
Next step is to check the method they measured the velocity.
Where do you even find these old guns?
Not a criticism at all, but it's interesting to think that in 1841 the prussians adopted the Dreyse.
I was just wondering, how did they measure velocity back then???
Do you have a marlin 45/70 cowboy rifle?🎉
Hello sir, do you know about nessler ball. Can you explain that to mee
HI, the NEssler ball was skirted expansive bullet designed for smooth bore arms. Very few countries adopted it, and it was quickly phased out when the percussion military rifles were generally adopted.
The US played a crucial part in the development of guerrilla warfare.
Please the indian trade musket pedersoli cal.20 ( cal.62)
👍
How do you manage to find all of these guns and ammo? Lol.
I make the ammo, and I have excellent friends who help with the guns.
Speaking as a Texan, the Southern border has ALWAYS been a problem lol. They've never respected the Rio Grande as the border, even well after the Civil War. Hell, they still dont.
The Napoloenic War's snipers
One more comment for the 'Rhythm!!
Thank you, sir, for the excellent content. I have a couple of questions. How common was it to have problems with the flint using the flintlock muskets? The other is, did you modify your cartridges in any way to correct the problem with the patch not shedding from the ball? Greetings from Texas.
I have several contemporary sources about this. In training circusmstances the ratio of misfires was around 10%, while in combat they counted every 4th shot as a misfire in the Austrian army. The soldier did not knap the flints, but received spare ones with the cartridges.
All this super noisy air pollution, releasing toxic combustion agents into the atmosphere for nothing! How about promoting some electric rifles on your channel??!
not a railgun channel yet unfortunately. maybe in a few dozen, maybe even hundred years?
The heck did I just read? Swear the only person I can think who can say something like that has to be a college woman student who's never been outside a city before.
@@balasaashti3146 or, hopefully someone having a joke..........
You actually said that? You have missed the objective of this channel entirely. HISTORY. Get over yourself.
:)