Israel/Palestine: Asking The Questions No One Else Will - Norman Finkelstein
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- Опубліковано 7 чер 2024
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Norman Finkelstein is an American political scientist and activist. Born to Jewish Holocaust-survivor parents, his primary fields of research are the politics of the Holocaust and the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. He received his PhD in political science from Princeton University and rose to prominence in 2000 after publishing The Holocaust Industry, in which he writes that the memory of the Holocaust is exploited as an ideological weapon to provide Israel a degree of immunity from criticism.
Norman's website:
www.normanfinkelstein.com/
Norman's Twitter:
/ normfinkelstein
Norman's interview with Candace Owens: • Israel vs. Palestine w...
#war #news #politics
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Stand-up comedians Konstantin Kisin (@konstantinkisin) and Francis Foster (@francisjfoster) make sense of politics, economics, free speech, AI, drug policy and WW3 with the help of presidential advisors, renowned economists, award-winning journalists, controversial writers, leading scientists and notorious comedians.
00:00 Introduction
00:55 Parents Who Lived Through the Holocaust
09:07 The Source of Norman’s Views
15:46 Why Norman Isn’t Supportive of Israel
23:05 The Truth About Israel/Palestine
33:25 Sponsor Message: Monetary Metals
34:54 What Should Israel Have Done?
52:10 Is it Right to Never Forgive?
1:00:21 Parallels to Liberation From Nazism
1:07:50 What Would Happen if Hamas Released the Hostages?
1:10:16 Sponsor Message: AG1
1:11:24 Ending the Confinement of Gaza
1:19:19 Iran’s Role in the Conflict
1:37:24 What’s the One Thing We’re Not Talking About?
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CHAPTERS👇
00:00 Introduction
00:55 Parents Who Lived Through the Holocaust
09:07 The Source of Norman’s Views
15:46 Why Norman Isn’t Supportive of Israel
23:05 The Truth About Israel/Palestine
33:25 Sponsor Message: Monetary Metals
34:54 What Should Israel Have Done?
52:10 Is it Right to Never Forgive?
1:00:21 Parallels to Liberation From Nazism
1:07:50 What Would Happen if Hamas Released the Hostages?
1:10:16 Sponsor Message: AG1
1:11:24 Ending the Confinement of Gaza
1:19:19 Iran’s Role in the Conflict
1:37:24 What’s the One Thing We’re Not Talking About?
I'm so tired of Palestinians picking fights and then running off to the UN to ask Israel to show restraint.
This is the same guy who praised the October 7 atrocities. How can anyone take him seriously is beyond me. I can smell his arrogance from the distance.
The real problem is software bots on twitter and comments sections. They cant be controlled by software companies and influence every discussion on every subject by stating AI conversations. They either swamp every discussion with lots of bots ganging up or befriend and build a rapport and reply to everything you say to influence you slowly as a 'friend'. 99.99% of people have no idea of what a bot is and how to spot them so they think its really public opinion. The Eurovision public vote with nearly every European countries voting for Israel shows difference between real peoples opinion and paid software bot dominated social media which our podcasts and news use to decide what to cover
@orangeisthenewblack2384 he didn't praise it. He made an obvious observation which is, what did isr expect? It's sad what happened. Oct was cruel and brutal. But people don't do that for absolutely no reason. Sure maybe one or two weirdos born with mental problems might snap and commit atrocities small scale. But when large scale events like this happens, people with functional brains tend to immediately go hmmm what led to this? Why did they do this?
Isr has been cruel and brutal to these people for generations. I don't think isr deserved what happened. Nobody deserves that. Absolutely horrific....but they EARNED it.
Hold isr accountable for creating this monster. Bottom line. Truly psychopathic leadership.
Also it's worth noting that islamic teachings play a huge role in this. Radical religious ideologies are evil. Plain and simple. But obviously thr international community is hesitant to criticize these imaginary magical beliefs because countries like us and isr also have governments which rely on imaginary religious cults so they have to be careful not to dissect Islam too deeply otherwise their own populations might see through the bs of their own fairytale gov tools
to inform on the reality i posted all document on your facebook chat-all facts no lies.................................
When Norman wanted to explain what happened in Gaza before October 7 they said we’ll pop a link for you so others can look it up themselves. But when they mentioned the children in Gaza saying anti-israel statements they made sure to show those clips. Their biases always seem to surface even when they claim not to be.
Because we all know Norman would have used at least 20 minutes on that, while the clips of the children saying anti-JEWISH(not anti-israel) took like a minute.
Like the kids need to learn about who's responsible for the plight of their people. How can you even teach this history in that area without coming to a similar conclusion?
The translation of the kids wasn't correct at all
Of course they are, these guys are just your typical right-wing-aligned Sam Harris fans.
Scratch a "Liberal" and a Fascist bleeds.
@@user-vt6lm2vt2htranslate then
Why should a Jewish person born in Brooklyn have a claim to a home in Israel based on a 3000-year-old biblical connection, while a Palestinian in the diaspora, whose right to return is recognized by UN resolution, and whose ancestors lived in Israel, is unable to return?
Yes, this is a shameful injustice.
Cat catches their tongue whenever this question is posed to them.
Because Hebrew language, culture and religion were formed in the land of Israel, while so called "Palestinians" never developed and distinct language or culture of their own. They're just bunch of squatters, who are descendants of Arab colonizers. And the only reason "Palestinians" oppose Jews is because for Islamists it's abomination for "infidels" to run "Muslim" lands.
its because israel is based on ethno supremisism
They're God's chosen people dude, didn't you know?
the translation is wrong. one kid said that he'll fight with ISIS? Wrong!!! He didn't say that. he said that he'll join the youth in their fight. Nothing about ISIS. So don't lie or exaggerate please
I knew that even though i dont know arabic, the gews always lie
As if that makes it better.
Stop arguing semantics. Whether it's fighting with ISIS or 'others', this kid wants to kill Jews.
Why was Isreal providing medical treatment for wounded ISIS soldiers?
@@LordMalice6d9 Why was the US providing medical care to Japanese or German POWs during WW2?
DUH! Because it's the right thing to do.
It's always necessary to have a translator if you can ever be taken seriously on these talks.
I dont know why you guys pretend to be unbiased when your framing of questions and footage is provided with selective translations is trying to hammer in the idea that palestenians should be dehumanized because of what theyre taught. If that were to be a critically upheld belief, then youd would have to apply it to israel as well, meaning it cant be used to dehumanize when every human does it, especially in this scenario
Yeah it’s become more and more obvious as the channel has grown.
Truth hurts doesn't it?
How do you defend a bunch of terror worshipping lunatics that are almost daily dehumanising themselves?
I suspect you haven't seen even one of the countless Palestinian videos where they openly and proudly share their disgusting views..
Maybe look into it.
@@galethsaldor8293 in your first paragraph I thought you were talking about israelis.
Very difficult for people directly involved to really see and accept in the otherness the intrinsic humanity which is inalienable to everyone. We loose our "minds" or "souls", whatever you choose to beleive in, when we think we are superior, deserve more and want the distruction of others, and even worse loose ourselves completely when it is carried out. .
Palestine exposes all hypocrisy. Kudos to Mr. Finkelstein.
Mr. Finkelmann....Mr. Finkelton.....Mr. Finkelmass
@@kennethdixon6458haha Mr borelli…. Mr.borelli!
Definitely, I’m sure none of the haters in the comments really listened to him.
@@shahendaaly3579 Just because they are dumb, deaf, and blind doesn't mean the world can't see the blood dripping from their hands. I wouldn't worry about them, only they need to worry about how they look to the rest of the world.
@@shahendaaly3579 I've listened to him many times. Just like Shapiro and those who think Israel never does anything wrong, he only has one lens to see this through. And he never really answers tough questions. Sidesteps and says "but what about?". As long as people continue to have his views or the other view (Same coin, different sides), we'll continue to have what we have now. Not so sure that that's not what is wanted by both sides (leadership wise).
"What should Israel have done?" is the new "Do you condemn hamas?" 😂
Exactly. "If you have a problem with something how are you going to fix it? Oh. You don't have a one sentence answer? Well you shouldn't have an opinion then "
New? They were asking that on the first day lel.
if you condemn hamas for this attack, you support them. he supports them because he is a communist
That's a pretty limited mind you have. As the predominant anti-Israel opinion is that Israel's response has been too heavy handed it goes to show that, other than the pro-Hamas crowd, the vast majority of people agree that Hamas' actions on Oct 6th were heinous. Therefore, given the FACT that Hamas has literally, publicly, stated that "Oct 6th" will happen again and again, the question is quite legit.
Both good questions. What is your answer?
The irony is that Triggernometry tried to "cancel" Finkelstein's appearance after booking him, several times, until he spoke about it publicly himself thereby exposing them. Very hypocritical coming from a show that made a name for itself based on challenging xnarratives" & "cancel culture"
The Jew keep asking what Israeli leaders do after Oct 7. Norm said sit down and negotiate but that is not 😢acceptable to the Jew.
Those are zionists sell outs. Good on Dr Finkelstein for calling them out.
I’m glad people are paying more attention and not that gullible as they used to be. One human waking at a time is great! Eventually everyone will open their eyes. And that’s a good thing
@@mingkalli1716You had me at ‘The Jew’
@@mingkalli1716do not confuse Jews with Zionists. They are not the same thing. There are a lot of Jews protesting about what is happening on Gaza, there's are a lot of Zionists in Israel who are pro Netanyahu. De second group Z.... Are the same kind of people who were prosecuted at the trial at nurenberg
He's no different than the two state solution people. Look at history, there is no negotiating with Hamas. That's why, despite his virtue signaling to the contrary, he does not live in reality, and he does quibble with the facts.
He's a Marxist and lives in that twisted world of fun house mirrors. Every word he (ab)uses has "Marxist" in front of it, and the bloody point is that while some of us share his vocabulary, we do not share dictionary with him. Everything has double meanings in Marxism.
Reality is that the Palestinians authorities, and probably the brainwashed populations of Gaza too, have resisted any and all negotiations in all of history. Because all of them won't forgive or forget, or have truth and reconciliation. They bar every civilized method for ending the atrocities.
But he has won. So the atrocities continue. I honestly don't see that he leaves any solution on the table except actual genocide, so I guess that's what we're going to see unfold.
It's the Caananites all over again.
"I thought you were the one who wanted to talk about the real world" was such a sharp moment in the discussion
Norman looked to have restrained himself the first time when the doucebag skipped decades of apartheid and killing and wants post 7th oct solutions
Second time norman roasted him
yeah i almost spit the water in my mouth... that was sharp indeed
timestamp?
yeah. Finklestein is the real deal , Trigger is pur propaganda. Cia all the way.
@@moonchart 1:07:50 haha Konstatin was so flustered cuz he knows he smacked.
How can you use so many words and say fuck all ???
😂😂😂
my thoughts exactly
Are you all really so dumb.
'word salad'
Norm has been perfecting this ability for decades.
These guys are so dismissive of violence done to the palestinians over the years it’s sickening to watch.
it is not that hard, Konstantin and the other guy are jewish and have strong connections to the state of israel. For them, palestinians are just human animals.
Do something about it then.. if you can.
@@frankjackal Needlessly snide remark.
People like you are so out of touch with reality its sickening to watch
Shut up.idiot
What if every group, tribe or race of people go back 2000 to 3000 years ago and decide to reclaim their land. How will the current world look? Let’s all be real why is this allowed for a specific group of people?
Because the UN accepted that decision in the 1940s. The Palestinians just want to live in an alternate reality
Ask, pray, the Greeks, the Italians, the Ilyrians(today's Albania) or even the Egyptians if they would move out from their ancestral lands on a whim from an intrusive new neighbour.
Facts!
The let's be real argument is the same one that Israelis use... Just sayin.
Because European Christians did the holocaust, didn’t want the Jews, and could give away some powerless Arabs land to make the problem go away in their mind. They would of course never accept the Zionist logic from any of the peoples of the lands they conquered. Now people stupidly just eat up the “holocaust justifies it, they’re always victims, look white, and we don’t like Muslims either”
The coldness in the guy in the red jacket is scary. He doesn’t display an ounce of emotion / empathy. I feel he’s a robot. And whenever Norman tries to explain he says “let us establish that we agree with what you say” in order to brush off an important point and head straight to how would BB have reacted ? The same question can be flipped if you were in a concentration camp how would you have reacted ?
Hes just a grifter!
yep. hes a hatful scapegoating bigot. It's obvious. Just hate Russia for all answers in life. these guys are efffed.
Thank you, I thought I was overreacting, I’m relieved I’m not the only one. He chills your blood. I was spontaneously scared of him, to the bone.
He’s a comedian. But this is just his serious face, that’s all. He’s having a discussion about an important geopolitical debate. Would you prefer him to cry about the loss of life and shout and scream?
@@ralphbaier7793 he's some kind of upper class sent mutant to spread hate and dehumanization among the innocent. I'm telling you I know that sounds dramatic but it's not. this guy hate spreading scapegoater through and through and you have great instinct here. Good on ya.
As an American I'd love if my taxes weren't spent on another unending holy war
This holy war returns x10 times more to America. Believe it or not.
What's "holy" about gen.ou.side ?
@vildancorovic8977 couldn't tell ya, but for some reason we're all paying for it
Funny isn't it? 74% of Americans agree that they should support Ukraine against Russia's occupation and mass murder while simultaneously a number of them support Israel's occupation of Palestine and mass murder. (though in fairness, I have seen numbers that indicate some 81% of Americans do not support Biden's support of Israel - and that included Jewish Americans) Its the Vietnam protests all over again.
Correction: UNholy war…
the clips of the kids were misstranslated no one mentioned "isis" and only the first girl brough up the word "jew" but yet you made them all look like they said "jew"
4 kids said Jew. Watch it again. And tell us what was actually said?
They definitely all were talking about what they want to do to israelis. But yeah the last guy just said he wants to join "al shabab" which just means the "the boys" and then said something about "the islamic state". I don't think he was talking about ISIS.
A native speaker literally told you what they said.
@@deansavage1555
@@Sdguga he tried to say they weren’t talking about Jews. They were
Not all were. A few did and a few said zionist. Many times they didint even mention them and it was wrongly inserted in the translation and threw the translation off. For example, a young girl said "and show them that we are also strong." This was completely misrepresented @@deansavage1555
I think sometime triggernometry dont want to hear the answer. They are so close minded
They are triggered
They are phony grifters milking their misinformed right wing reactionary supportrs for their money. That's all!
Paid zio shills
They choose feelings over facts
As an Arabic speaker the translation of we done with extreme bias. Specifically the kids are talking about Israelis not all Jews.
Ask yourself if you were a Palestinian kid who’s loved ones have been murder, tortured, raped, etc. would you be able to feel anything but how these kids feel?
Depends many so called children do terrorist acts they graduate as terrorists. Again, let’s be honest, Israel is not the only border. Why is Egyptian border never mentioned? Why not ask Egyptians why their borders are closed?
Ohhhh, these children are only been taught to want to massacre, Israelis, not all Jews! nevermind then
The problem is that works both ways: the IDF is going to get so many volunteers that they won't know what to do.
@@master1941 every Palestinian I know has been directly impacted by the loss of life there. I cannot say the same for every Israeli person I know or have met. If their volunteering for the IDF then their being encouraged by their perceived and imaginary trauma from perceived and imaginary prejudice so in no way is it equal.
Its adult responsibilty to guide those kid to a better future. Unfortunately, gazan kid was taught from young age to hate and fight against israel. This war only deepen these harted.
"No one is more hated than he who speaks the truth." -Plato
Plato didn't know much. Liars are definitely hated more.
Finkelstein speaking the 'Truth"? He self-hating jew. Who is omitting facts and refuses to give Israel the right to defend themselves as any country would do in their place.
and the comment section of this video proves that statement
@@esjavavu4808guess it depends on how much of this world you think is lies.
This guy is super popular I guess we don’t need to believe him
Q "How do you solve this issue?"
A "Follow international law."
Why are pro-Israeli folks still crying about the answer?
People here including Constantine and Francis acting like Finkelstein didn’t say that many times in response. We know Israel doesn’t want anything to do with them pesky international laws just like the US doesn’t and like good lapdogs these guys can’t engage on that premise.
Exactly. This is just a quieter, muffled version of any screaming debate of both sides, on one hand, all the facts are given with description and examples, and the other side just want to focus on one date and one tiredly repetitive question.
but finkelstein doesn't know international law
I'm not particularly pro-Israeli, and I have a problem with the vagueness of this answer. There are many actions possible within this mandate, including a military response. Professor Finkelstein never said whether that would, in his view, be acceptable.
@@susanmiller7560 he did infer that he thought that this was not acceptable on several occasions, if you listen to what he said.
"For the sake of argument let's say that [insert nonsense strawman argument bait]" bloody hell how is this an interview. These muppets are trying the same b/s they did with Bassem.
They remind me of Burt and Ernie Muppets.
Absolutely
I'm asking about the "real world"
Then goes on to ask about hus dreams
100 agree. How can you dismiss the killing of 15000 children. Disgusting.
They've dropped the ball ever since the Ukraine war. The channel has become unwatcheable.
First I thought it's just Kisin's blind autobiographical hate of Putin but nope, they're actually cheering for western imperialism now, siding with hegemony and genocide 😂
It's a very strange approach to a neutral position. The dude in the purple top, is trying to make Norm say something that he's thinking. The level of education and compassion that Norm has, is way beyond these two. They would be better off in the space of Ben S and the other idiot UA-cam kids.
Hes asking questions and its legitimate to ask tough questions, especially questions he doesnt want to answer!!!
Whoever translated the clip of the kids either doesn’t speak Arabic properly, or intentionally is mistranslating their words. The translation is shockingly inaccurate 🤯🤯🤯
I wouldn't know.. But if true what you say, it would be very important to expose this ( with a legitimite translator) , So there would be another proove of how false " facts" are being used to mislead people
Then please correct it. Clearly we all arent Arabic speakers... Other wise what you just said means absolutely 0
@@heathclark318western media and lying ..
Can you correct it then please.
@@heathclark318 thy probably translated "Israelis " as "jews" which is not the same even in Arabic. I've seen that before. And even if thy did say something bad so what? It's *children *. These same people ask us to disregard the statements of Israeli officials and Israeli leaders who are in power. But thy expect us to take a child's words seriously? No. We can disregard the words of children if thy say something bad. And when Isrealis leaders say stuff THAT is what's indicative of something. Not the words of a 5 year old
Judging by these comments, Norman was correct in assuming the audience is largely unaware of what informs his arguments.
There’s so many like “he was just using word salad!” showcasing that they just didn’t understand anything he said lmao
Aye, unfortunately a lot of trips audience seem to love having some quite gross prejudice that has nowt to do with their life reinforced.
A fair few gammon windbags with a chip up their arse for sure
“He lives in an ideological bunker” is the last thing I expected to read about norm in this comment section lmao
@@mercurial6759isn't it funny how he says war in Ukraine is anyone's fault but Russia's and the war in Gaza was totally Israel's fault?
And his "views" have nothing to do with ideology.
Same thought here.
Not one question that I haven't heard being asked endlessly on mainstream media, independent media, everywhere.
I don't understand why there's an expectation for someone who opposes genocide to provide a solution that is literally the job of the political leaders to do. And I don't think that a person needs to provide an answer. It's enough to say "Not what they're doing" and expect governments, army and their huge resources and advisors to do their freaking job. If they can't do it, then they are in the wrong job and need to move out of the way and let others take over. It's as simple as that. It's not for Norman like it's not for Palestinians or even for Hamas to figure out what would get them basic rights because the answer is nothing. Israel has no intention, regardless of what they might do or not do, to give them any rights. And therein lies the complete dishonesty at the heart of this kind of "debate".
Correct. That's because there are no rights, except for the one which the might makes. Did Genghis Khan concern himself with the rights of Russians, when he wiped out two thirds of the population and enslaved the rest for three hundred years? Did British colonists grant any rights to the aboriginals which they exterminated and replaced? If you can't defend yourself, you have no rights, because there is no reason to negotiate with you. And, if you buy into the enemy's lies and lay down your weapons, you invite this fate upon yourself.
There is not a politician who goes into politics for the sake of others, instead its what's in it for "me". That's why the people of the country have to make things happen, in spite of the politicians. That's where we are now.
Those who offer baseless criticisms without suggesting practical alternatives demonstrate a lack of understanding and credibility. Their failure to acknowledge the intricacies of the situation only undermines their position and exposes their arguments as shallow and uninformed.
@@netanelbraginsky9913 Those who offer baseless criticisms shouldn't comment at all.
@@joankelly5625 why are you commenting then?
It is obvious as he's discussing the atrocities they don't give 2 fks
mmmm
That's because he is not giving him the answers they want but rather the answers that are true.
These jokers literally stopped Finkelstein from explaining the historical context of what caused Oct. 7th, constantly stopped Finkelstein from going into details when explaining his answers, but then showed like 2 minutes of kids without proper vetted saying they hated and wanted to harm the people who are LITERALLY bombing them, and spent another long segment complaining about Iran's hatred of Israel. If you want to know how biased these hosts were, just look at the last 30 seconds where they imply that Muslims naturally want to kill Jews.
That is quite an assumption to make and it is definitely making an ass out of you.
yep. these guys are hollow supremacist war mongers for the great white west. people are finally waking up to these goons.
1:22:20these translation are so incorrect. The children are talking about ‘them’ and the translation puts ´jews’. Them could be their enemies the israilis. Why the translators are making these inaccurate translation?
So by your own words: them == enemies == israelis == jews
So sounds like accurate enough.
So inaccurate because they said them instead of Jews, were they implying the Jews in their statement? Ok so picking on dumb minuscule issues. So the whole rest of the show is a lie lol?
@@nicholaslopez8830no you fucking idiot. it matters because you weirdos are using these mistranslated videos of CHILDREN to paint them as antisemitic terrorists and justify the indiscriminate killing of them
@nicholaslopez8830 because by 'them' they were referring to Israelis, not Jews. The fact that the majority of Israelis are Jews is irrelevant, and they've purposefully mistranslated to make thr clip seem like the children are anti-semetic. The fact you lack the mental acuity to realise this, shows exactly how you are on the side that's doing genocide. Posterity does not remember kindly genonocide perpetrators and their cheerleaders, maybe think on that next time you wade into this topic.
@@nicholaslopez8830 implying the key word. Basically putting words in their mouths . Have a nice day
Norman Finkelstein, please continue to speak your truth and justice. Thank you.
Norman Finkelstein continually states that he wants “to be faithful to the facts” and then continues to misrepresent the facts. To be precise
Mr. Finkelstein has over a period of decades has been able to refine his hatred of Israel and his distortion of history. Why has the one Jewish
state been able to take in Jews from all over the world, and the over fifty Muslim states been unwilling to take in their fellow Muslims instead of making them wards of the UN for generations. Finkelstein tells us he is surprised that so many people support “poor weak Palestinians.”
No surprise at all: antisemitism is alive and well, and is stoked by such wonderful Jews as Norman Finkelstein, George Soros, and Bernie
(the Red) Sanders.
There is "the truth". "your truth" is just opinion.
@@KentBuchla The facts and knowledge, is not an opinion, it's the truth of history that many of you are in denial. wanting to change the course of history & truth to fit your own narrative, which is to spread untruths. People hate to hear the facts especially when those who pretended to care about humanity and claim that they uphold democracy when in fact they themselves are dismantling the fabric of democracy to justify their own atrocities beggars belief.
He's a legend
Here's the Candace Owens interview that was mentioned ua-cam.com/video/te1y7ahp2LQ/v-deo.html
She is a terrible person to be citing or referring people to. She's an anti-Semite.
What should Iran have done when their Embassy was bombed & 14 people killed ????
i mean this channel is run by zionists
It was not their embassy and the people who were killed there should not have been in a country that was not theirs and planning attacks on Israel from there.
Except it wasn't their Embassy.
@@jfhervy except it was
@@Mossaab-kg3cj5hc5s Israel did not destroy the Iranian Embassy. They destroyed a building next to it that was used to organize covert operations (aka Iran backed violence across the region). These were not diplomats.
42 kneecaps in one day to a peaceful demonstration?
Since stone and cocktail throwers are peaceful. These are antifa plus blm on steroids.
That's the only democracy in the middle east for ya.
Who's gonna stop them LOL.
Just another day for "the most moral army".
Imagine your child just observing and playing in your peripheral then this..
I find it horrible that these conversations INSIST on the starting point being October 7th - history wants us to forget but this time I hope people won't. As a Philippino hearing NF reference the Samar Campaign was on one hand validating that he knows the history but also horrifying as a comparison to Gaza.
Empires start and stop conflict many times. Peace is honoured until someone breaks it. Palestine broke it, celebrated the death the civilians and are now coping as their land is purged of terrorists. At least they're not being CONQUERED
Dr. Finkelstein is a true genius of our time, and a mano of honour
yep
Norm should've reminded the interviewer that Netanyahu himself supported funding Hamas in response to the claim that Iran funds terrorists , which Israel did. So what's the point of bringing up Iran funding Hamas?
Yep!
Never funded Hamas directly, but they let funds from qatar get effortlessly into Gaza, also let Gazans get work permits in Israel more easily. This let Hamas more financially stable to defeat Fatah. It was a stupid attempt to conquer and divide, but it blew up in their face.
These guys are blind
They are both jihadist ideologs who wish death on America & Israel why the hell would jewish people trust them when every opportunity they had to wipe Israel off the map, they tired & failed
They also started modern terrorism, were involved in 9:11 in some capacity that we don’t know fully, were involved in radicalising Islamist groups like ISIS (I’m still researching about this), etc. Israel are the terrorists, categorically. And not only that, they produce aggressive software programs to monitor people around the world, to “counter terrorism” (Apple suing them for this) oh the irony
This kid with jacket has no idea what he is talking about, go read a book first. He talks of realism and then compares gaza to nazi Germany. 😂😂
Have to have the speed on X2 to listen to this guy
Then I'm sure u slow it down 10x to understand him?
Hahah
HAVE YOUR BRAIN AT THE SPEED OG X2 your brain is too slow
Mao and Stalin were great snuffers out of life; as were Ho Chi Minh, and Pol Pot, et al.
The translations were wrong in the vid with the boys
What were they saying?
They did it intentionally. These guys pretending they are not biased is so embarrassing
@@princesssharkie what’s the correct translation?
@@princesssharkie I think they would have to be very stupid to purposely mistranslate a language, and since these scammers and bots are too cowardas to send a more accurate translation why should anyone believe them??
With all the questioning about Iran funding terrorism, Netanyahu funded the same organization. Where's their outrage?
He funded them in order to push them against the PA. It was a strategic move to keep the Palestinians weaker.
You know that’s been debunked right?
@@DrJay1122 No it hasnt
@@DrJay1122 when? Neytanyahu is on record saying part of their strategy is to keep the Palestinian factions split by allowing funding to Ha m a s
Iran has been helping freedom fighters not terrorism. Israel has been the embodiment of terrorism from its inception. Read history to get your facts right.
Can someone help me decipher the name of the writer (novelist) Norman mentioned? I couldn't figure out the last name. It's Jane 'something'. The last name sounded like "Ah-re-gen". I can't find anything on Google. I'll post the time stamp later, I lost it now that i finished listening to the whole thing.
Jane Eyre by Charlotte Brontë
@@an.spranger9167 OMG! thank you so much! Can I send you something as a gift? it would be strange to ask for your address.
If an interviewer is not able to listen and let the interviewed person say what that person has to say, he is a bad interviewer.
Trigonometry’s solution : Hamas surrenders and the Palestinian people go back to the paradise of standard status quo living prior to October 7.
Rolled my eyes at that straight from Sionist propaganda moment.
Good thing the Egyptians control the southern border and allow free movement to the gazans ….. oh wait. The Egyptians don’t trust them either?!
@@psmorgan2542 That's supposed to be the argument you make for Gaza, not the West Bank or East Jerusalem. Violent resistance leads to decimation - i.e. Gaza. Non-violent resistance leads to Israel stealing land, demolishing villages and erecting settlements for European and American Jewry - as you can see in the West Bank and East Jerusalem.
It seems that no matter what Palestinians do, Israel does as it pleases and works to ensure there can never be a Palestinian state.
Remember too, Hamas isn't in control of the West Bank or East Jerusalem. Where is the paradise? Stop this utter nonsense you hasbara shill.
paradise said by a hasbara bot
Who are you to even discuss how to end this conflict? You’re very dismissive of prior 7th Oct. You need to look into the entire history in order to solve this conflict
Not many people are aware that the Palestinians first agreed to a two state solution in 1949 at the Lausanne conference. Israel also signed the protocols but reneged afterwards.
Agree. Consider the 1400 years since the warlord prophet Muhammad and his 6 year old cum doll, Ayisha, declared war on the world.
How do you debate someone who is objectively dishonest about reality? You can't have a conversation when you can't agree on reality to start.
The "what should Israel have done" segment of this is so hard to watch. The man's giving you an answer but because it seems like it isn't the desired answer, he's consistently interrupted and railroaded into rephrasing that doesn't let him get the full thought out that he had originally. Honestly kinda exhausting on the mod's part.
Yeah
Because it was a crappy answer with no basis in reality. There was no occupation of Gaza before Oct 2023. The blockade was because of rockets being fired into Israel constantly. And everyone crying about 'occupation' is really crying about Israel existing. That's the part they don't mention: the end state is no Israel.
lol okay… what was his answer then
He’s says a concentration camp ? Gaza also borders Egypt. A Muslim country . How many Palestinians have cross the border to Egypt. And if not why haven’t there not been pressure from muslin country’s and protests about this .
@@Raptor302😂😂😂 what a dummy you are. The access to Gaza was restricted, the water supply was entirely controlled by Israel also civilians got tortured by the Idf even before October 7th
I am sure if you went round a cotton field in the 1700s with a mic and video and asked the slave children what they thought of white people, youd probably get a similar answer to the kids in Palestine
Because the kids in Palestine are slaves to the Israelis? Give me a break
Sure with their education it is inevitable
@shangrila448 nah you missed the point 🤦🏾♀️
@@eolay4411 you might see the point if you'd been there
lol
This guy: Israel should have settled for peace after oct 7. Surely Hamas would never ever do another oct 7...🤦🏻♂️
Yes. This guy: word salad, word salad and more word salad.🤔🤔😒😒😂😂
You can face palm all you want but after Israel's current behavior has lost the support of 90% of the planet and I'm saying this as a person who was soooo pro Israel on Oct 7th but has now completely changed how I feel after seeing the way their military conducts itself.
@@5dollarshake263 No one is face palming
@@5dollarshake263they are fighting a war against Hamas who maximizes Palestinian civilian casualties. Perfect for idiots like you. Blame the war on the party that did not break the ceasefire.
@@5dollarshake263Same here. What Hamas did was inexcusable. What Israel is doing is abominable.
"Terrorism is the war of the poor, and war is the terrorism of the rich." (Peter Ustinov, 2003)
Was this guy dropped on his head as a baby? Imagine being stuck in an elevator for several hours with this guy.
Kisin is the worst. Hell on earth.
Two Stalinist parents, who didn't want to live in Stalinist Russia ?
i assume the choose the place where family survivers stayed. Also not easy to enter Stalin-Russia. I hope you have more than hate for Russia and come to visit one day.
His parents had a typical progressive philosophy of "Rules for thee and not for me...". Otherwise, they would have immigrated to the USSR after the war.
no one really knew to the extent what Stalinist Soviet Union was like until a few years before it ended, with the like of the gulag archipelago etc. Norman is right that the Soviets were the main reason we aren't speaking German today. 27 million died holding off the Nazis. His parents appreciated it, as they should. Stalin was evil though
@@user-nt7ku3it5yno one has hate for Russia, outside of various politicians, but many have hate for Stalin and his supporters
@@richardwall5678 the ussr after the war was devastated, they had to suffer a nazi invasion which caused dozens of millions of death between civilians and military and incalculable economic and structural damage. The us on the contrary was prosperous and untouched by war, cause they weren't invaded. if you want to emigrate to be safe you try to go in a prosperous place, not in a nearly destroyed country.
You know things are Bad when UA-cam has to explain what the holocaust is
Mass Black magick ritual human sacrifice of dark kabbalistic inversion of the Ainsof life principle paid for by elite Wallstreet Ashkenazi Zionist interest groups (who also invested in IG Fargen among other large corporations alongside defence companies associated with the wider Nazi War machine as they played both sides for profit and always do). They sold out their fellow jews for refusing to make Aliyah and partake in Zionism's wider aim for the "Jewish people" (cynically deliberately use their fellow poorer european jews who had been persecuted (by the paid for Nazi's) as soldiers/hostages to emigrate in order to make it reality by holding the land while carrying out the colonial genocide for them and do the "dirty work"). The descendants of the people who refused to make Aliyah make up many anti-Zionist groups today, this includes the Ultra Orthodox Netar anti-zionist jews as they do not think prophecy has been fulfilled but falsely pre-emptively misused.
The same people who were the main financial liquidity behind the Nazi's (gave them the script for the holocaust) then also profited very well from their persecution of them and their loved ones, then also use them as pawns for further geopolitical conquest and colonial projects. All the while hiding in the safety of the USA far away from any of the consequences of their actions. Organisations they then set up later then also have the chutzpah to claim holocaust reparations money (that mostly goes back into Zionism).
They financed the whole architecture of propagandistic antisemitic campaigns after there was refusal in traditional rabbinical sects across Ashkenazi, Sephardi Jewish groups in Europe across wealth classes prior to WW2 because it was about forcing jews out of Europe and to make Aliyah to the soon to be formed new Israel so the demand for the Zionist interests was as rampant as possible. The six million who died in the holocaust had to happen for prophetic fulfilment so they created a golem out of the aryan blood racial consciousness and provoked it to follow in that pre-planned pathing.
This was then carried out by the Nazis aligned (paid up) with Zionist interests to force Aliyah and to create the fulfilment of the six million that need to be killed to usher in the religious state of Israel and faux-fulfil prophetic religious pathological extremist apocalyptic justifications for political gain and resource control in the region so that it would be a continual justification for further colonial conquest and domination over the middle-east as part of "Greater Israel" with endless buffer zones needed around even then, which is why history in the middle east since the creation of the State of Israel dictated by US foreign policy always goes in lock step to the original Oden-Yinon Plan and shows no signs of slowing down or even stopping.
Creation/destruction - white/black magick threads of biasing the rudderless procedurally generated reality world ego ship. Kill to create, create to kill ouroborically regenerating the world through "tikkun olam", breaking the old world order "vessels" to create anew in their "image and likeness"?
They now have nearly possibly up to 1,000 nuclear warheads with variable tactical/strategic yields between 150-350 KT ready to launch from land, sea and air or so thereby holding the world to nuclear blackmail ransom with their Sampson Option thinking they are completely above international law and answerable and accountable to no one.
There is only ONE way this "ends".
I'm 67 and Black. I have my own TORTURED and MURDERED people to think about. What was the hollowcost?
What’s worse than UA-cam describing what the holocaust is is UA-cam link’s Wikipedia for this knowledge!!
@@user-tw7nh7jj5l it was the focus of a war in which 400 000 US soldiers died (assuming you are from the US because of linking your color with your identity). many of them where black. a war in which millions of africans died. even if you are racist in your historical knowledge by relativizing and ignoring the deaths of tens of millions and the attempted extermination of an ethnicity, this should definetly be near the top of the list of things to know about...
🤣
“If they’re Black, then it’s a gang. If they’re Italian, it’s a mob, But if they’re Jewish, it’s a coincidence and you should never speak about it.” - Dave Chappelle
Never answer the freaking question jeez
Mr Bonelli
Mr Borelli
Mr BOTTICELLI
Finkelstein: What's your name?
Destiny: Bonnell
Finkelstein: OK. Thank you, Mr. Vermicelli
Don't make fun of his mental handicap. That's agism
He is trolling the clown destiny rightly so a man that doesn't know geography and franco talk geopolitics
Andrea Bocelli
@@sethblank3139It was deliberate 😂
I just read the un report on the kneecap shooting at the protests. Its crazy what Israel did with complete impunity.
They also just flat out refused to cooperate with the UN team. Like... how is this behavior tolerated by the international community?
Edit: for those interested: A/HRC/40/CRP.2
Hats because the UN allowed Hamas to build tunnels and store arms in UN facilities like hospitals & schools. when they w
The United States has enabled these ongoing war crimes. We're watching them destroy international law in real time. The 2 icj cases are mind blowing.
Why would they cooperate with the un when the un has been and is actively anti israel
And netanyahoo was delivering cash to hamas and did everything possible to prop up Hamas and undermine PLA ...and yet media does not seem to be screaming that bibi is hamas supporter... it is always awful awful Palestinians @racheldiamond2457
TRULY look into the UN before you trust anything they say. They are an awful globalist political creation. They are not an innocent impartial group. Read the UN's Agenda 21. They do care about ppl except to control them by whatever means. Sovereign nations with free ppl be damned. Truly read what their plans are and ask ppl who live in awful places where the UM has a strong presence WHAT they are doing there, if they actually try to help the ppl, etc. Learn from the escaped North Korean woman who first made it to South Korea and then the US. She will tell you, as the Palestinian children and even the son of the HAMAS leader will tell you WHAT they were being taught in the UN "schools".
Jheez this guy is insufferable
Absolutely insufferable! His method is anything but honest… it’s thinly disguised Marxist dialectic. He’s so boring that it’s tempting to agree with him just to shut him up. Painful.
I will watch the other half tonight. Would be interesting to bring Mark Levin into this discussion .
To bring up Nat Turner as an hypothetical was outrageous ! First GAZA instead of ousting the Jews, instead of using billions of Iran's money to build hundreds of miles of tunnels, instead of using it to make rockets out of water carrying pipes that were used for irrigation, instead of planting HAMAS in public places such as hospitals, I see no logic in saying that they are oppressed but rather that they do not have a creative bone in their body.
To say Israel is not obeying the rules of engagement therefore is a outright lie.
The interviewers are never asked; “What should Israel have done?” and let us hear them say their truth.
They are saying there are no alternative actions. Are you stupid?
Get out of Palestine and go squat somewhere else, ideally Europe where the cause of their eternal tantrum is.
no, the interviewers are generally the ones asking the questions.
Well, typically, interviewers ask the questions....
How about "what should Palestinians have done?" Any answer that starts with "Don't" or "Not" won't count.
If you have nothing to live for, then you’re gonna die trying for the future to have something to live for
Completely agree. Why haven’t the Palestinians risen against their oppressors Hamas then?
@@PJVerh0ef guess you have reading comprehension issues….because the Israelis gave them no other choice and became desperate
Here’s another question
Why did Netanyahu fund Hamas?
well done to have this discussion. with the latitude given to the person being interviewed. differences in opinion not being talked over or yelled at.
Anyone knows the name of the book sir Norman mentioned at 21mins? Thanks
Two things I wonder is what is Israels plan once Hamas is eliminated?
And do they have any plan where everyone should stay meanwhile?
I assume they thought that people and countries would be understandably mad, but eventually forgive them as they have a habit of doing.
Of course losing Hamas would mean losing a long time boogeyman that they have used to radicalize youth in Israel, so I imagine they would try to pick a fight with another country to maintain that fear that keeps them supporting more extreme policies, but that is just a hunch.
The same when Humus did not exist.
@@dennisheyes4561The problem is that most Palestinians support Hamas and/or hate and want to kill all Jews. Until that changes there will be no solution. If it does change (probably requires Muslims at scale to drop their anti-Semitism) then one could imagine even a single state for all the people in the area. E.g., if the Palestinians would model themselves on the 20% Arab population within Israel, who have equal rights.
@@dennisheyes4561 This has to be one of the most insane takes I've seen yet, Hamas is a boogeymen Israel used to radicalised Israeli youth? really?? as an Israeli I can assure you that no educational system teaches you pretty much about Hamas and I'm 34 years old, how can you say "boogeymen" when they literally exist? They initiated several wars with Israel, fired rockets towards civilians, and committed the 7th of October massacre while broadcasting it LIVE to the world! Have you actually been to Israel or had a conversation with an Israeli who has been alive from the '80s or '90s that can actually portray you what happened? Do you even know how Hamas was elected in 2007? Actually wonder.
N'etan,ya'hu doesnt want to make a plan, he wants this war to keep going so he can remain in power and evade his trial
By the way, a note to the Triggernometry technical team: camera, lighting, graphics, editing, sound guys: you do a fantastic job. This thing that you do, blending two speakers together at the same time AND making it look natural is stunning.
I didnt notice that, thanks for pointing that out I like to learn.
Nice haircuts as well.
I noticed the same thing, it was the best part of this conversation
I was just thinking how good it looked. We sometimes forget about the hardworking and talented people behind the scenes.
Yeah, well said. I agree. Give credit where its due. Looks and sounds fantastic. 👍
Alot of people not living in the real world.
🏆This is the correct answer.
"So if i could ask you about the current situation in Gaza..."
"It was 1962 and my mother liked cheese....now the particular brand of cheese that she enjoyed was unavailable in the store - a sort of building in which goods are sold..."
Sums this interview up perfectly!
😂😂😂😂
what an absolute funny shiister you are
This was good! The guy’s consistent though, he’s this way in every partial interview I watch of him…I just cant get through a whole one.
Yet he “chooses his words carefully”. Lol Finkelstein is a joke. Sad to be so old and so committed to one way of thinking.
I love it how Europeans talk about forgiving and forgetting when it comes to their actions.
Well at least Europeans acknowledge last mistakes something Muslims cant do they just completely lie and say it didn't happen.
They can do that cause they dominated the world and set all standards Europeans ended slavery no one else. all of western sensibilities r European don't hate them cause of passed sins we all commented or don't throw rocks from glass houses
what do you mean 'our' actions and talk of Europe as a monolith? Very ignorant.
Go pretend to be a victim somewhere else.
Yeah. They forget that the Europeans were the ones that kicked the Jewish people out and placed them a populated country.
"It's obvious that truth motivates you."
--Francis Foster to Finkelstein
Actually Finkelstein went on and on about truth in a quite demonstrative and defensive manner. In my experience, honest and straightforward people do not do this, not at such length. I find the way he talks about his great committment to truth and integrity to be decidedly flashy.
Actually I though it was great he expounded on the idea of truth, almost like a self reminder. It might surprise you to know that most people are not motivated by truth or self aware regarding their motivation like those triggometry folks
@@mashfiquehaque3150 I edited my comment to make clear that I'm describing Finkelstein, not the triggernom guys.
If only he had read a book about how to answer question
Another Piers Morgan with "What should Israel have done"
The answer should be "not this".
What do you expect when you keep saying what Israel shouldn't have done?
Another mindless boy repeating buzzwords and platitudes provided by anti-liberal, anti-humanist and antisemitic propagandists.
@@tolula9927You mean that IS the answer that is always given 400 times in a row despite the questioner constantly stating that they want a positive answer lol?
"What do you want to eat?", "not tacos", "ok, but what DO you want to eat?", "I already told you, not tacos", "dude, I understand, but what would you POSITIVELY want to eat?", "omfg I just said I positively do NOT want tacos!", "Jesus Christ alright, I give up"- is how this convo goes every single time.
A slaves' decent is a slave in his genes..!!!
There have been 2 interviews recently, each about 1hr30min in which Konstantin has asked the people `What should Israel have done' and both spent 3 hours not answering it.
Let me sum up both 3 hours interviews for you since they flew so high over your head they were probably hyperspace for your few struggling neurons... Not a GENOCIDE?
Answer first what should the Palestinians have done? This did not start on 7th.
@@chopin4525You perfectly illustrate the problem with the 2 interviews. You cannot answer a question directly.
@@cathymartens7478We could argue about everything for a million years based on what happened in history. Crimes against Palestinians, the holocaust etc. What should Israel have done after Oct 7th?
He’s doing it intentionally. Because he wants to portray that it all started on 7th Oct. But you can’t say what Israel should have done, without understanding Israel shouldn’t be doing what they are doing full stop and that’s norms point. Stop the settlements. Stop the attacks on the West Bank. End the siege on Gaza and end the genocide. Palestines should have a state and this should be enacted immediately. However all the complication in the situation is caused by Israel because they do not want Palestinians there full stop.
"Based on my unanswerable framework, whats your answer?"
Where is the link to the interview at 1:36????
Im from Balkans . This situation will never resolve ,when emotion and hate are only motor ...
Така е, ова е полошо од ситуацијата во Босна или меѓусебната омраза помеѓу Хрватите и Србите.
Религијата труе се - Хиченс
Поздрав
Nation states are the answer, we're still paying ht price for multiethnic empire and federal experiments.
@@Saskobest Its NOT ABOUT religion ...its ALL about land and ethnoc nationalism in case you didn't realise.Jews,Muslims and Christians have lived together all over the middle east for hundreds of years
@@upendasana7857 under Caliphate no?There were hierarchical groupings due to religion. And islam oppenly states that what was once theirs(islamic land/country) it must be taken back, same thinking goes for Spain
@@Saskobest Поздрав , се разбираме ...
It's funny they are questioning Norman on “never forget and never forgive “ while making a case for Israel: “What would they have done after Oct 7?” laughable
you didn't hear it here ...but, for the record ... Izzy attacked itself on Oct seven ...🤫
@@christophermarcone5504lunatic
"Never forgive, never forget." Makes the whole world blind.
What should have Israel done?
A: Given a one week ultimatum to Hamas to release all hostages asap and also have the UN pressure Hamas to do so. This will happen in exchange of Hamas hostages as well. If Hamas fails to do so within the said period, Israel will proceed with an all out war for a period of 2 weeks and then ceasefire for a week to re-negotiate. Keep repeating this loop so the pressure keeps mounting on Hamas and the no. of casualties wouldn't hit so high and this would increase the chances to release hostages from both sides.
What do you guys think of this? Just asking... I'm no expert.. just a random fool on the interwebz
Appreciate Norms commentary, it's refreshing to hear his perspective or facts as he says (I know little about the topic so would be stupid to dispute what he is saying). However, there is a video he says his parents were in the "Warsaw uprising", and now he is saying that they were not. I can appreciate if he misspoke but it does serve as a reminder at least to myself to always be critical.
Looking forward to learning more about this topic, are there any book recommendations to kick start the journey? From what I understand it goes back hundreds if not thousands of years, so what better place to start than the beginning. Drop a comment with your recommendation!
fink is the guy that dumb uneducated people think sounds smart but if you listen carefully, not only does he never answer a question but he just lists "facts" and never connects them to a thesis. he says things but leaves it to the viewer to connect the dots while casting vague emotional statements.
this isn't how smart people talk.
The eternal victim, always someone else’s fault
oh the irony!!
Israel and jews? yes! We still pay them reparation from eastern europe
You mean those whiny grifters who call themselves Palestinians?
@@ratulxy You leftists don't ever get the facts. How come?
The irony is so thick...it's like it the chosen irony.
As a person who lived through the N.Ireland conflict, there is no similarity whatsoever. I’m a Catholic so have no hesitation to say that the British didn’t carpet bomb N, Ireland . No comparison whatsoever.
Arthur Balfour subjugated both the Irish and the Palestinians with his doctrines
I am South African and can say that Israel's treatment of Palestinians is way worse than anything the Apartheid regime did to blacks in SA. Apartheid defense forces never bombed whole neighborhoods to take out a few terrorists.
Correct, Ireland didn't try to exterminate the English either.
As a Catholic living in Ireland can I remind you that you seem to have forgotten that Ireland was occupied by Britain for over 700 years & their actions during the famine resulted in 1 million Irish deaths. There was more to forgive than just The Troubles you know - and yet here we are…🤔
@@Raptor302 I think you got it mixed up who’s the exterminator. Just look at the data
Let's not talk about what happened before Oct 7th. This guy wants to jump to season 5 episode 189. You need to start from the beginning to understand Oct 7th.
I wonder how many of the protesters are willing to go to Palestine to help rebuild? I also wonder where they were before oct 7?
Before October 7 Israël was hiding really its attentions and his game.but with this war they have been blown up. Everybody so and understood what their intentions and their game was.and all of that because social media not the mainstream media.that is why before the October 7 you didn't see protestors!!!
The interviewers had already decided which side to take, they never put themselves in the shoes of the Palestinians.
Los entrevistadores ya habían decidido de que parte situarse, nunca se pusieron en los zapatos de los palestinos.
They did the same with Basset Youssef. The short one is especially infuriating.
The job of an interviewer is to play the devil's advocate and ask difficult. There is nothing biased about it.
@Aless6996 nope. Bassam came across as an incredibly silly. He simply refused to address the hypothetical yet tries to maintain the moral highground. That only tells me that he's being deceitful.
@@xxLeCurexx yeah dude you're right.
@@xxLeCurexx😂
🎯 Key Takeaways for quick navigation:
00:01🗽 Comparing civilian casualties between Ukrained Gaza
- Staggering differences in civilian casualties between Ukraine (500 children in 2 years) and Gaza (15,000 children in 6 months).
- Destruction in Gaza compared to Dresden and Hamburg in WWII in terms of intensity.
- Disproportionate number of children, medics, and journalists killed in Gaza compared to other conflict zones.
00:45 *🧑🎓 Finkelstein's family history and how it shapes his views*
- Finkelstein's parents were Holocaust survivors from the Warsaw Ghetto and concentration camps.
- His parents were fervent Stalinists, viewing the Soviet Union as the primary force that defeated the Nazis.
- Finkelstein was raised to be cognizant of the moral gravity of discussing war and death, rather than just intellectualizing it.
09:09 *🧭 Finkelstein's approach to the Israel-Palestine conflict*
- Finkelstein did not grow up with a strong attachment to Israel, despite his parents' Jewish background.
- Finkelstein's focus is on truth and justice, not being pro-Israel or pro-Palestine.
- He has dedicated his adult life to extensively researching the facts and legal arguments around the conflict.
23:08 *📚 Finkelstein's perspective on the facts surrounding conflict*
- The South African application to the International Court of Justice provides a detailed, well-referenced picture of the horrifying situation in Gaza.
- The scale of civilian casualties, particularly children, in Gaza is staggering compared to other conflict zones.
- The intensity of destruction in Gaza is likened to the bombing of Dresden and Hamburg during WWII.
27:34 *🗺️ The scale and scope of destruction in Gaza*
- Gaza is a small, densely populated area (25 miles long, 5 miles wide) with half the population being children and 80% being refugees.
- Over 300,000 homes have been damaged or destroyed in Gaza, leaving 1.3 million people with nowhere to return.
- The deliberate policy has been to reduce Gaza to "a howling wilderness", rendering it uninhabitable.
32:32 *📖 Finkelstein's approach to the events of October 7th*
- Finkelstein acknowledges the vile and awful nature of the October 7th attacks, but refuses to accept judgments on how Israel should have retaliated.
- He separates the questions of "jus ad bellum" (who is the aggressor) and "jus in bello" (how the war is conducted), focusing on the latter.
- Finkelstein believes Israel, like any party in a conflict, must abide by international humanitarian law and the laws of war, which he argues Israel has violated.
41:19 *🤝 Finkelstein's proposed solution to the conflict*
- Finkelstein says the parties involved must sit down and resolve the conflict according to principles of international law, with accountability for war crimes and crimes against humanity.
- He acknowledges the difficulty of this, given the deep hatred between the two sides, but believes it is the only legitimate path forward.
- Finkelstein is open to alternatives like the "Truth and Reconciliation" model used in South Africa, but personally believes in "never to forgive, never to forget" when it comes to atrocities.
55:08 *💭 Finkelstein's perspective on resolving the conflict*
- Finkelstein believes the conflict should be resolved according to principles of international law, with accountability for crimes.
- He is open to a "Truth and Reconciliation" process as an alternative, though personally prefers "never to forgive, never to forget."
- Finkelstein acknowledges the difficulty of separating emotions and passions from the pursuit of justice in this conflict.
59:48 *🔍 Examining the civilian casualty numbers in Gaza*
- Finkelstein argues the specific numbers and ratios of civilian to militant casualties in Gaza are highly uncertain and contested.
- He criticizes the Israeli government's claims about the numbers as being fabricated and unreliable.
- Finkelstein suggests the civilian casualties were likely the result of indiscriminate bombing, rather than targeted killings of militants.
01:00:02 *🧭 Israel's goals in the conflict with Hamas*
- Finkelstein argues Israel's goals go beyond just defeating Hamas militarily, and include permanently "resolving the Gaza question."
- This could involve ethnic cleansing, making Gaza uninhabitable, or the complete destruction of the Palestinian population, according to Finkelstein.
- He does not believe Hamas surrendering or handing over perpetrators would end the conflict, as Israel seeks a more permanent "solution."
01:11:25 *🔍 The role of Iran in the conflict*
- Finkelstein argues there is a broad consensus that Hamas did not inform or coordinate the October 7th attacks with Iran or Hezbollah.
- He suggests the claim that Palestinians and Gazans hate Israel due to Iranian propaganda is an oversimplification.
- Finkelstein believes the conflict is more complex, with multiple factors and perspectives to consider.
01:22:38 *🎥 Criticizing the use of propaganda and oversimplifications*
- Finkelstein argues people don't need to be "educated" about how "horrible Israel is" through propaganda videos, as the reality on the ground is already known.
- He cites his own extensive knowledge of human rights reports and the destruction caused by Israeli military operations in Gaza over the years.
- Finkelstein believes the conflict is complex, with multiple factors and perspectives beyond just simplistic narratives.
01:24:55 *📚 Examining Iran's role in the conflict*
- Finkelstein acknowledges Iran's support for Hamas and other groups, but argues this needs to be contextualized within the broader dynamics of the conflict.
- He notes that Iran has formally supported a two-state solution, even if its actions behind the scenes are more complicated.
- Finkelstein argues international law does not prohibit occupied people from engaging in armed resistance, nor does it bar other countries from supplying them with weapons.
01:34:21 *🔮 Finkelstein's pessimistic outlook on the future of the conflict*
- Finkelstein believes the events of the past 6 months have fundamentally changed the positions of Hezbollah and Iran, making coexistence with Israel untenable for them.
- He suggests neither side now believes a two-state solution is possible, leading to an existential conflict where neither will tolerate the other's existence.
- Finkelstein expresses a sense of hopelessness about finding a way to resolve the conflict given the hardened positions on both sides.
01:37:23 *🔭 Finkelstein's broader concern about generational inequality*
- Finkelstein argues the world has become unfair and unjust for younger generations, with opportunities and prosperity that his generation enjoyed now out of reach for many.
- He believes this underlying societal problem is what drives young people to identify with and empathize with the plight of Gaza and other powerless groups.
- Finkelstein sees the need for a radical transformation to provide younger generations the same chances and opportunities that his generation had.
Made with HARPA AI
## Finkelstein's Outlined Israels End Game in Gaza After October 7th Attack:
Finkelstein argues that Israel has two main goals in its actions following the Hamas attack of October 7th:
**1. Total Military Defeat of Hamas:**
* Israel views this conflict as a chance to finally eradicate Hamas, going beyond previous "mowing the lawn" operations in Gaza.
* The aim is to achieve an "unequivocal total victory" over Hamas, crushing their ability to resist.
* In Other words, to force a complete capitulation of the enemy, at any cost
**2. Resolving the "Gaza Question" Once and For All:**
* This encompasses three possible outcomes according to Finkelstein:
* **Ethnic Cleansing:** This was initially attempted by pushing for mass Gazan displacement into neighboring countries (e.g., Egypt), but was rejected by those nations.
* **Making Gaza Uninhabitable:** This involves deliberately inflicting so much damage that remaining in Gaza becomes unbearable, driving out the population. Finkelstein cites statements from Israeli officials like Geora Eiland endorsing this approach, comparing Gaza to a "concentration camp."
* **Amalec-Style Elimination:** This refers to the Biblical command to kill every man, woman, and child of the Amalekites, evoking calls for complete extermination. Finkelstein notes this is understood by Israelis, citing a report by B'Tselem mentioning Israel's education system and the implications of the term "Amalec."
**Finkelstein's Critique and International Law Violations:**
* **Disproportionate Retaliation:** Finkelstein argues that regardless of Hamas's actions, Israel's response is fundamentally in violation of International Humanitarian Law (IHL) - the laws of war.
* **Collective Punishment:** The blockade of Gaza, even before October 7th, was deemed by Richard Goldstone as having "elements of a crime against humanity." Tightening this blockade further punishes the entire population, not just Hamas.
* **Ignoring International Law on Resistance:** Finkelstein highlights that international law allows occupied people to resist, including through armed means. He states that other nations (even if contentious like Iran) have the right to support such resistance.
* **Genocide as a Plausible Outcome:** The South African application to the International Court of Justice cites potential genocide being committed by Israel, a charge Finkelstein finds compelling based on the scale of destruction and the intent expressed by Israeli officials.
**Key Point of Contention**: Finkelstein believes, even if Hamas were to surrender unconditionally and hand over those responsible for the October 7th attack, Israel would still pursue these larger goals of permanently reshaping Gaza and eliminating any future resistance. He sees this as driven by opportunism and a desire to exploit the crisis for long-term strategic gain, not simply as a proportional reprisal for the initial attack.
That’s excellent work !
He completely ignores the fact that what drives this a hatred of Jews. And also to say Israel simply wants to genocide the Palestinians is false since the could have done it at any time and why would the pull 10,000 Jews from gaza in 2005 if that was the aim. He also forgets the 50,000 misses fired on Israel by hamas over the past few years.
@@thruppenybit He is also siting numbers that have now been proven to be false as those reporting them admitted it themselves. Need more than hour to peel this onion boys
"death toll debates" are pointless when it comes to discussing a resolution.
WHO are the two automatons (dead guys) facing norman?
Benjamin Netanyahu (Benzion Mileikowsky) has said many times even if Hamas turns the hostages over they won’t stop bombing Gaza
yes that's right, hostages are a 2ndary goal, not the primary goal of removing hamas
The answer to Konstantin's question of what Israel should have done is really simple.
If we accept the premise that the Palestinians have been subjugated and had their lands stolen from them which is substantiated with an overwhelming amount of video evidence available to the common man, then surely a bloodbath in Gaza was the worst of the options available on the table.
For a country with an intelligence agency that's renowned world wide, it's unthinkable to me that they felt isolating themselves from all of their partners in the region and relying on US military as protection against the adversaries in the region was the best and safest option for their state. Particularly now that Russia is handing it to the US proxy in Ukraine and showcasing their artillery superiority for the better part of 2 years now - Russia has largely been unaffected by anything that the US has thrown in the form of aid to Ukraine.
With Israel's main adversary in the region being Iran who is an ally of Russia, surely it's clear as the light of day that a world war is not in their best interests either - particularly now when the current dominant world order that favours Israel hangs in the balance.
Israel has failed in every single one of it's military objectives - failed to eliminate Hamas in Gaza, failed to drive out the Gazans, failed to free the hostages with any other means beside negotiation.
It has only succeeded now in shattering all peace arrangements with it's neighbors, emboldened Hamas, turned public opinion from the next generation of US citizens firmly in favor of a liberated Palestine, exposed to the world their hasbara machine and how it works and essentially made itself a pariah state.
If they get the war they want, then their state is in an existential crisis.
so against that backdrop, the negotiation with Hamas should have been something along the lines of hand hand over the hostages in exchange for Palestinian prisoners including the perpetrators and master minds of Oct 7th in exchange for a peace deal that restores Palestinian dignity and civil rights in the land.
Northern Ireland & South Africa both achieved ultimate peace when weapons were put down and civil rights for all were reinstated. This really isn't rocket science. This would have been in the best interests of Israel and given them the best chance of keeping soft control over the land by keeping the economy in its possession - exactly like what happened in SA.
Now its staring down the barrel of starting a war that looks increasingly likely that they will lose. How do they fight a war on all fronts surrounding their border effectively??
Yep, demonstrating a real commitment to peace and reconciliation is the only option for Israel.
so when 9/11 happened, USA should have asked Osama Bin Laden what he wanted and given it to him?
I just want to confirm if this is your position or if you think this situation requires unique analysis.
Your first premise is already controversial. You simply throw it out as if it is a foregone conclusion, but there are many scholars who will disagree with you on that. So considering the first premise is far from being accepted, what does that say about the rest of your argument?
@@saltymcnaulty9927How did those two forever wars that made the entire region hate you go? Seems like an absolute failure of policy to me
@@Firstname_SurnameWell, those scholars can tell us all about how the earth is secretly flat while we all move on and acknowledge the actual reality. No one outside of Israeli financing disagrees with the premise presented. It's undeniable history you can simply look at Village Statistics 1945 (the last census of the area) and instantly see the stark difference in the 1948 map. In no other circumstance would people remotely pretend that such land transfer occurred by peaceful means
Only naive person would believe that Israelis ever really supported a two state solution
Naive? Ignorant!
The world do not need Israel to accept Palestine as a country, same as 30 country do not accept Israel are a country today.
Why they should?
Why is that?
They do not need, it is not up to Israel to tell what country to be on this planet or not.
One thing that is not discussed that has a pivotal role in all this is the religion of peace...
Religion of peace ?
Pedophile priests and war mongering popes?
Or militant armed terrorist European refugee Jews who took over the land and people that gave them refuge?
Dear Norman you have tremendous power of reasoning accompanied by a pure heart.
Hamas will listen to international law??
What are the odds? Maybe similar to the odds that Israel will listen to international law.
@@PJones-jb7tb Israel made International law, you just need to read the political ethos of Hamas for understanding, are online and public for every one
You think Israel does?
Cause we Know Israel won't.
@@TheZubin66way more than the US did in Mosul. And don't even get me started on what arab armies do in Libya, Syria, Yemen, Iraq, Afghanistan....
What a brilliant way to finish the conversation . Reading the comments in this section it feels like
Most people were looking and not listening with intent .
Most comments support Norm here it's just the Triggernometry fanbase that have to enlighten us with their "centrism" and strawmans
@@Sheragust As for the Hamas advocates, I have no hope whatever that any facts whatever will make the slightest dent in their thinking - or lack of thinking. Ergo, Triggernometry watchers bother (relatively) little w/your ideological possession and rhetoric.
@@jonathandrake8640 The Israeli position is the ideological one, the resistance the factual. The land is theirs, it was stolen.
actually i listened to this, and was just a bit befuddled as to what was actually said. In those situations I like to check the comment section to see what others are thinking, to see if any more context can be shared.
he said Israel is a satanic state. This is not a man who seeks "truth" or "justice". He is just joyous of the attention he gets from people seeing him as an antizionist messiah
Yes he spoke the truth as he promised
What would you describe them as "the most moral country in the world"
😂😂😂 Gtfoh
@@totallynotthefeds36 I would say no country is satanic. Even genocidal Arab or African countries after they have killed or enslaved millions. So yes certainly not Israël
@@pouletman They are definitely closer to satanic than how they describe themselves as "moral"... For several reasons.
This was a brilliant interview, and I appreciate both Francis and Kostantin for pushing back in ways that were fair and reasonable. Finkelstein was on point the entire interview, and I could follow his train of thought extremely easily. There was the right amount of careful consideration and emotive language, the latter of which usually throwing the conversation off kilter (Baseem for example).
Where’s the Candace Owens link in the video you promised at 1:12:45?
Zionist shills didn’t add it as expected
Its right there.
So I don’t claim to know but a large number of the comments say the translation of the Palestinian children is inaccurate. If that’s the case than the credibility of these two guys is completely shot. It’s not that hard to fact check a short video before posting an interview online for hundreds of thousands of people to view
Their credibility was shot a long time ago! Kudos to them, at least, for talking to Norman Finkelstein!
@@Uarehere 💯
I don't speak Arabic either, but the red flag to me is the subtitles uses the word "Jews" for almost every kid, but only 2 of them used the Arabic word for "Jews".
Weird that the credibility-killing detail focused on by some of you is whether "they" refers to "Jews" or "Israelis" when it's children saying they plan to stab, shoot, run over with a car and suicide bomb "them". We know the _them_ they refer to are _civilians_ because this is exactly how Palestinians have been killing civilians for decades now.
Interesting interview! It's also interesting how many people are claiming that Norman was being asked "the wrong question". I think it's totally understandable that he wanted to explain what led to the events of October the 7th, however it's also very reasonable for a question on "what would you do as a leader of Israel post October the 7th" to be answered directly or if he does not have an answer a simple "I don't have an answer" would suffice.
People keep talking about the past, and while that's critically important to inform the current situation, we must also be able to talk about the future, based on the past that we cannot change.
I do have to say that listening to Norman speak about his personal experiences was deeply moving. I also applaud his calm and well paced way of speaking.
The logical fallacy that seems to be prevalent through the comments here is, if the answer to "what would you do as a leader of Israel post October the 7th" is "I don't have an answer", that that then somehow justifies what they are actually doing right now, and the extent to which they are doing it. It doesn't, and it's awful that they are phrasing the question as though it does.
In fact, in the context of being in the real world and in the present, as the interviewers mention, a better answer would be "I don't know - but definitely not what they are doing today".
To teach anf live "never forgive and never forget" is the craziest thing I have ever heard a grwon up say. He underpins it with hid mothers story which is probably one of the most evil things happened in history. But exactly this keeps him unforgivable. I think there are two kind of people when confronted with evil against themself. The one only want good. The other get cold and bitter.
This is a great interview. Allowing Norman to give his background, to have time to talk, while keeping him on topic was superb. I'm really grateful.
They never stayed on topic, they kept letting him dodge and lie.
@@noamto lie?
Not much
@@noamtohaha. NO. You clearly didn’t listen or pay attention
Or you just didn’t like what he said.
@@noamto Point out where he lied.
Konstantin wants to have this conversation absent of all context and the conversation simply can't be had that way. I don't understand what "real world" answer he's expecting when his premise is entirely compartmentalized to a single action in a decades-long conflict. It's impossible to answer his question honestly with the limits he arbitrarily places on it. He's essentially asking both Finkelstein and Bassem to give an ignorant answer.
it's called propaganda journalism. "whatever you do, don't ask what you don't want the people to know" ( and if they tell you...divert, deflect, straw man, ad hominem , and what-about )
Exactly what I was thinking the whole “discussion”
Yeah it's way too loaded of a question. I like KK a lot and I can understand what he is trying to do but it falls into his very own trap of "simple solutions to complicated problems" which Trig have ironically always been critical of.
Yeah, I mean, why would anyone want to have a conversation about facts rather than Norm’s misinformation and anecdotes, am I right?
@@dwil0311 "what should have happened" is not a fact based question
If following the rules of war, mustn’t you declare war publicly; as in modernity;before any action? Or are all wars started “un-notified “ so to speak…😓
Always a gentleman, Norman Finkelstein.
Another worthwhile interview.
Always a gentleman? He's generally an arrogant asshole to anyone with a different opinion than his own.
🤢 he's despicable
He's a legend ❤️🔥