Are Colors in the Right Order?
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- Опубліковано 15 жов 2024
- Colors are weird. We rely on a natural weather phenomenon to put them in order. But is that order right? Is the rainbow wrong? Why does a rainbow look like it does? Where do other colors go? Where should the colors go?
All this and more on this episode of whatever Element feels like talking about this month.
Christ, when will I get a consistent upload schedule?
Btw, not a video for kiddies. I know the subject matter will likely pull some of those kids in by accident, so sorry for me language.
music - - - - -
Multiplayer - FF OST
By the Fireplace - TrackTribe
Busy City - TrackTribe
The Stoic and the Sailor - Unicorn Head
Handprints - John Deley and the 41 Players
Lazy Walk - Cheel
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8:58 I have tetrachromatic vision with a 4th cone type that's most similar to the L cone type but shifted half-way to the M cone type. I categorize my cone types in S, M, L- and L+. L- is more sensitive to yellowish light, while L+ is more sensitive to reddish light.
For me, a red-green light can never look like a yellow light. Pure yellows are very rare in everyday life, because of the extensive spectral overlap of the M, L- and L+ cones. Most screens' "yellows" are actually red-yellows, the same goes for practically all "yellow" paints. Most of the yellows produced with RGB lights will look like one of the many red-green colors, instead of a "yellow", with some yellows mixed in because both the red and green subpixels emit considerable amounts of yellowish light. Predictably, the transition from "yellow" to "green" on a RGB monitor doesn't look very smooth to me, because it goes from red-yellow to pure green; the same goes for white to cyan, for example. There are so many colors missing.
Interestingly, I can see as many colors between red, yellow and green as normal people can see in the entire visible spectrum. But due to the extensive overlap of the M, L- and L+ cones the quality of these colors is a bit reduced and their occurence is different. For me the red-yellow-green range is trichromatic, and I can go from a red to a green withough going through yellow, white or black. My color space is four-dimensional, i.e. tetrachromatic. While for normal trichromats the transition from red to yellow to green is a one-dimensional line, for me I literally can (and need to) construct a hue wheel in this range (like the RGB hue wheel) to display all its colors/hues.
Fascinating, I’d love to learn more, but I literally cannot envision it
@@ElementFreakYT
EDIT FOR THE ORIGINAL COMMENT (due to popular request): This is an artificial form of moderate tetrachromacy and not a retinal one!
You don't necessarily have to imagine it. You can see it for yourself. At least if you have normal trichromacy.
Technically I have normal trichromatic vision with my naked eyes. But I've designed glasses with a lens pair that allows me to see colors tetrachromatically. It's a form of non-retinal tetrachromacy that makes use of the inherent potential for hexachromacy in human trichromats. I'm taking advantage of the chromatic redundancy of our visual system (i.e. our two eyes). I call it "true-red non-retinal chromatically-less-redundant tetrachromacy", or "true-red tetrachromacy" for short.
The glasses I've created split my "red" L cone type into one more reddish "L+" and a second more yellowish "L-" virtual cone type. My left eye only sees colors 'monochromatically red' down to approx. ~630nm, while my right eye sees all colors from approx. ~380nm to ~630nm.
With this, my left eye is "true-red monchromatic" and my right eye now has a weak/moderate protanomaly. Alone, both eyes would be considered color vision deficient, but in concert they create more distinguishable colors/hues overall in the visible range. Retinal "yellow tetrachromacy" (that e.g. Concetta Antico is believed to have) works similar to this, just that it's retinal and doesn't use the detour of breaking chromatic redundancy; and its new colors are more unique instead of unique impossible color combinations.
While I still technically only see trichromatic colors/hues with this in each individual eye, I create impossible color combinations in the process via the binocular fusion of two differing colors that allow me to differentiate more colors/hues overall. This also means anyone with normal trichromatic vision can see these tetrachromatic colors (with a bit of practice, of course).
This is what allows me to differentiate a red-green from a yellow, or a red-blue from a magenta, or see colors like a purer cyan and a cyan mixed with red, and so on.
You can read more about this and how it works here: www.color-in-color.info/tetrachromacy_1/non-retinal-tetrachromacy (Hopefully UA-cam doesn't block this comment automatically because of this link.) And yes, it's very complex. I'm literally still figuring out this form of tetrachromacy even though I'm already seeing these colors. A 4D color space shouldn't be underestimated. If you search for papers on tetrachromacy there are a few good ones, but they use a very different approach to tetrachromacy than I do.
I don't often hear about tetrachomats. They might be more common and undiagnosed.
@@cubicinfinity2 "Common" in relative terms. Functional retinal tetrachromacy is very rare, at least according to most studies about tetrachromacy. The genetic potential for retinal tetrachromacy doesn't always grant functional tetrachromacy. To truly diagnose a tetrachromat you'd preferably need another tetrachromat, or at least someone with simulated tetrachromatic vision and a perfect knowledge of the specific 4D color space.
I wonder, if you can make a 3D space with 3 Dimensions of colors, can you make a 4D space with 4 Dimensions? and if not, does it have to be a 3D representation of 4D? or is it just unrelated
Apparently, in printing, there are "imaginary" colors that do not exist but are useful for mathematically determining specific color mixes. Learning this is when I decided color was too much for my poor brain to try to understand
Do you have any more info or somewhere to read about this? :0
yeah i’d like to learn about this
I need to learn more
@@estellairon9448@romanallgeier4661 @devinward461
try looking up 'hypergreen', the theoretical colour which actives your green receptors without activating others. it would be "more green" than any colour youve ever seen, but is physically impossible to actually see
You forgot about "impossible colors" en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Impossible_color
There's no black in a rainbow, Luigi.
ula ula alani melemele
oma oma o'polu poni
@@swagguy7515 ele’ele ele’ele
@@swagguy7515 Is that Hawaiian? Because I made a syllabary specifically to write it. We should be using that instead of ‘awa‘awa Loma.
There certainly is you just can't see it.
Black isn't a colour in light.
Fun fact: humans can discern small differences between dark colors, but not between bright colors. So, in computers, brightness values are squared before being displayed.
It should be noted that they don't exact square the colours, rather the colour profiles used in different programs, monitors, and APIs don't allow for subtle differences in the first place.
Even if the colour values say one thing, actually putting up a colour recognition device to the screen will tell you something different in most cases because the human eye is stupid and we can trick it very easily.
That's because when brightness goes up generally saturation goes down
the squaring is a holdover from CRT screens where doubling the voltage results in quadrupling of brightness
a similar problem arises in music theory in the harmonic series in which 2:3 and 3:4 obviously have different interval lengths, it's logarithmic
thus we created 12edo, one in which each interval is created by multiplying the previous frequency by 2^1/12. this sacrifices a bit of harmonic purity (ex: 4/12 is 1.26 compared to 5:4's 1.25) but has the advantage that different keys are just a pitch shift
This applies only to lossy compressed files
Nice one Elemental Freak, you really showed those rainbows who's boss
5:16 Secondary rainbows aren't less common; they just aren't anywhere near as bright as the primary rainbow which makes them really difficult to see.
"bgwprbogylgcbivm, is this more impractical to pronounce than roygbiv? yes but not by much,"
I was just working on writing a paper on color and this is perfect. You always upload at the perfect time.
Cite me, coward
@@ElementFreakYT bet
“We see a blur of hue, not distinct patters in a band of color”
wait
band of color
TALLY HALL?!
God Damnit
is the n silent when you say that?
no. Everyone pronounces it wrong. It's "god dam nit"
@@Loafoftime ya
(I was joking)
Honestly, English speakers pretty much never talk about the color indigo, EXCEPT for the Roy G. Biv mnemonic.
True.
This is unrelated, but you reminded me of a joke.
A friend once asked me what the difference was between a mnemonic device and a pneumatic device.
I couldn’t remember under the pressure.
It was more of a trick to keep it to Seven colours, I believe.
@@lunyxappocalypse7071
Yeah, our boy Newton was very religious.
@@Persun_McPersonson well it was 7 because of alchemy, not religion, but yea
@@energeticcreeper7969
7 in alchemy has its roots in religion.
I don't care how you sort my crayons, you can't tell the difference after they're digested
semper fi
the chroma diagram only shows hue and saturation, the line in the middle represents the visible color of things like stars.
BGWPRBOGYLGCBIVM sounds like a rejected first draft of a Lovecraft monster
found this super interesting as a colorblind person!
Great work on the video man, your videos are always on the most random topics and yet they are always so interesting. Keep it up!
i always use "red yellow green cyan blue magenta" or if i'm talking about something physics related i'll say "radio microwave infrared red green blue ultraviolet xray gamma" but that's a bit complicated and not useful for a lot of purposes
for hypothetical artistic purposes i use "mid-infrared near-infrared red green blue longwave-ultraviolet midwave-ultraviolet shortwave-ultraviolet"
I usually have seen the most identifiable colors to be the primary, secondary, and tertiary colors of RGB. Which is 12.
Red, Orange, Yellow, Lime, Green, Aqua, Cyan, Azure, Blue, Violet, Magenta, Rose.
Though that is for hues only.
I usually don't actually use black or white for stuff so idk.
That is purely an artifact of the limitations of the RGB color space. Those are the easiest to distinguish in RGB because their values are the furthest apart, but the RGB color space doesn't even cover half the colors that can be seen by the human eye.
@jsax01001010 What do you mean? It covers 16,777,216 colors. Some apps can tell you exact colors in pictures. How *isn't* RGB a good way to list colors?
i usualy kind of group colors into red, orange, yellow, green, cyan, blue, purple, and pink
Actually the 12 colors are red, orange, yellow, lime, olive, jade, teal, cobalt, indigo, purple, violet, fusha. Hope this helps!
This is similar to how I arrange the colors in Minecraft. The only differences are that gold is removed for light grey, blue is called light blue, and indigo is called blue.
So your German?
Colour is a bizarre thing in human culture.
Most people are able to tell the difference between more shades of green than other hues (due to different greens being useful for hunter-gatherer survival), and some cultures didn't even have a word for blue until a few centuries ago because it was counted as a shade of green.
Well our peak sensitivity is at green. Plus alot of nature is green.
I'm used to white yellow orange red pink purple blue green brown grey black
Because that's what stabilo boxes used when i was growing up
Of course now they use a different order, and they used three more before my time. All distinct from each other.
All rational and pretty and pretty much fixed/unambiguous for a pretty large range of colors.
That is the typical order of most top-quality art supplies. Especially for watercolor there is reason behind this order; the artists don't like certain color to be contaminated by others (which easily happens in watercolor), so the lightest one (white and yellow) must be placed at one end, while the darkest one at the other end. The greens and browns that often need to be mixed or adjusted is placed near the black. The rest is placed in between based on hue similarity.
Also, can we all agree that any order that puts pink between orange and red is the worst?
I mean, I get peach, but pink?
black rainbows - miracle musical
wh
Stella Octangula?
🗿🗿🗿
Type O Negative - 12 Black Rainbows
This was really interesting! I also love to sort my markers or crayons or colored pencils in “rainbow order” but that order changes slightly depending on how many colors I have to choose from. I like your final ordering.
FINALLY A VSAUCE UPLOAD!... wait a second...
great vid btw
4:11 the real reason is that the drops should be at a certain angle in the sky so that the refracted ray hits your eye. So all the refracted rays which hit your eye form a circle, the centre of which is your eye. This also means everyone has a personal rainbow.
I thought to myself "of course they are... black belongs between blue and red"
Cyan is absolutely in the rainbow
I agree so much. I get uncomfortable whenever someone is like "... yellow, green, (skips cyan) blue, purple..."
@OculusLime I think people just see it as blue but lighter so they go "oh its not in the rainbow". Yes, yes it is.
0:08 bruh
1:15
"Primarily known as a devout christian"
What's with the Rock eyebrow? Am I missing a joke lol
Bro your content is so high quality.
Why tf don't you have a million subscribers already?
Because my upload schedule is atrocious and I don’t fit in a clean niche. But thank you!
So much work just to come to the same conclusion that kindergarteners understand intuitively
The colour order that I sometimes use (that is, when I actually have an order and don’t just shove everything in a pencil case) is something like white grey black brown olive green blue purple magenta/pink red orange yellow. This way, olive makes for a nice bridge between brown and green, and if I want to I can take out the white to brown section and olive makes a nice loop between green and yellow.
The order I like to use is red, orange, yellow, green, cyan, blue, purple, pink, white, gray, black, brown, beige
I like that one.
I like that one.
You need magenta between purple and pink for it to make sense to me--at least, but besides that, it's a pretty good contestant.
As @DamagedPotential said, I think magenta should be between purple and pink, but other than that, that's basically what I use too!
Red Blue Green Yellow, the classic
5:41 that was uncalled for
Would you say that you’ve left a message at my tone?
@@ElementFreakYT Maybe. I’m definitely gonna hang around your apartment and enroll in your school, tho
I've seen the same thing about color perception so many times i might as well do a lecture someday
Hey, man. I love your humor and video topics. You are one cool dude.
thank you for that printer fact, it freed something up in my brain
I appreciate your using Tucker for Cyan for that good ol’ RvB reference.
6:24 we all know that the sun is a miasma of incandescent plasma! Forget that song, they got it wrong! That thesis has been rendered invalid
The sun is a quagmire, it’s not made of fire, the sun’s not simply made out of gas, no no no
bro discovered how I organize my Minecraft wool
So many people are watching this all of the sudden, it’s cool how videos can be found again in the algorithm
Yeah, it helps when I actually upload a video
@@ElementFreakYTit became a popular post on r/tallyhall, so that's probably the reason
i missed out on this video when it first came out. I wish i had seen it sooner. It was such a great vid
so what you’re saying is that there are other people with my exact kind of insanity
King Crimson is confusing, but that's mostly the fault of the name of his power. He doesn't actually erase time, he erases everyone's memory of it except his, which makes it seem like he erased time to any outside observer. So, for the full explanation, you need to know a ground rule of the JJBA universe, and that is that the concept of fate is real and true there. Fate just means that, no matter what you do, events will always play out in a certain way with no way to avoid it. If fate says you'll drink a glass of water, but you put it down and walk away, you'll trip, knock over your glass, and spill the contents into your mouth. The only way to avoid fate in JJBA however, is 2 stand abilities in part 5, GER and King Crimson. King Crimson has two powers, prediction and time erasure. Prediction (AKA, Epitaph) lets the user see what is fated to happen up to 10 seconds into the future. King Crimson however, can allow the user to move outside of fate for up to 10 seconds. In that 10 seconds, the user can't interact with anything and nothing can interact with them, so if the user was fated to be punched, but used their ability before hand, the puncher's fist would pass straight through them without hurting them. The user could then move to a more advantageous position and use Epitaph to see if their new position would allow them to win the confrontation. Another thing with it is that if the user is fated to do something (such as move an object from one place to another) they can do whatever they want with King Crimson's power and the fated action will still carry out (like the stuff floating from one place to another).
Fun fact:colorblind people see clubs and hearts on cards the same color
5:10 Can't believe he didn't mention the double rainbow meme
one thing i find hilarious is that i love sorting things... the order of colors you came up with is nearly identical to the color order i made for my crayons. i used to have like... hundreds of crayons in that box... and i wouldnt rest until each and everyone one was in a good order lol.
HOLY SHIT TALLY HALL FEFRANCE!??!?!
Buddy have you seen the rest of the channel
Not arbitrary. This is the same way I sorted my crayons as a kid.
The JoJo references going crazy w this one
The seven humans colors of the rainbow according to issac
this is literally how I arrange my coloring pens and materials
We must sacrifice the loins for knowledge
I find it funny that Newton decided that yellow was one of the msot dominant colors when in reality it's the smallest subset of shades 😂
0:47 look, i got you. the other colors go on the right of the crayon box. solved color theory
I really appreciate your content because I realized we trip over the exact same topics.
I’v been trying ordering colours and exploring the concept of elements since childhood❤️🔥(and never quit).
So can i ask if you have synesthesia, that would explain a lot
I don’t think I have it? I might just be special
It is radio waves, micro waves, infrared, roy, g, biv, ultraviolet, x-rays and gamma rays.
5:15 DOUBLE RAINBOW OMGGGG
Actually really smart question, roygbiv is ordered via frequency, because the higher the frequency the more deflection the light experiences.
Just a random physical phenomenon determined by 1 of many traits of light.
I really like krita's hsi where rgb are the most saturated at darker values and cmy at lighter values, also they are at equal distance from each other and opocite, r from c, y from b, g from m. Really nice for mixing and for understanding witch one will look darker in a painting, its not trully perceptual but it gets close while looking scientificxd
Okay, I'ma keep mine simple
So we start with what we're used to
Red - Orange - Yellow - Green - Blue - Purple
But we add in Cyan and Magenta because of course.
Red - Orange - Yellow - Green - Cyan - Blue - Purple - Magenta
Magenta is actually red and purple's collective imaginary friend. The other colors pretend to talk to them to appease red and purple
"What about Indigo and Violet?"
[Shrug]
Between Blue, Indigo, and Violet, and then Cyan, Blue, Purple, I don't really care. 8's a good number.
Edit: Also helps that because we apparently like Red, Yellow, Green, and Blue in particular, this is sort of a Primary Tetrad, with it's own Secondaries between them
my take: 3d hilbert walk across the rgb color cube
as a artist i have tried to organize colors many times xD. its kinda hard as theres too many ways one can do it. i think i (and many others? idk) go by light to dark and/or warm to cold. like it dont have to make sence to feel like it does imo. the one you came up with works too i think. my order is not in a row but a grid tho (im thinking of my box of markers btw), the top is light the bottom is dark, left is warm and the right is cold. i also like to put colors that dont go together like blue and pink in my other setups just because its more easy to find the color im looking for when they make eachother stand out more x).
I was not disappointed
you're definitely a diamond in the rough, hopefully you find an opportunity to grow a lot one day, if you want to, I know that I'm lazy so I don't really like making video, having a feeling of obligation to would be rough
For some strange reason all cultures divide the rainbow into the same 7 colors
It’s because God likes the number 7, hope that helps 👍
1:05 oh, alphabetically!
Thanks, I think I'll stick to the eyeballs vs printer system.
Love the content. Please please keep making it
The thing is, primary colors are just a mostly arbitrary selection of colors that is chosen because it gives us the largest “slice” of the spectrum with the least amount of individual colors.
High quality prints and pro artists use 6 to 12 distinct pigments, even more! Because it allows them to obtain more saturated colors than having a more limited palette.
When talking about Primary colors saturation is the key, a primary color is a hue that can’t be obtained with the same saturation by mixing other colors that are in your palette.
You can mix orange and purple to make red, but it won’t be as vibrant as a red pigment you can get at a store.
Let’s hope that scientists wouldn’t invent grey and brown rainbows
if the color of an object we see is what gets reflected, are we detecting the color/s most opposite to the object itself?
No, not really. The color of an object is defined as the color that we see. Also we don't detect color but the wavelength of the light, as color is just a subjective experience.
17:30 This is the closest you came to how I order colors in Minecraft when sorting my boxes of colored blocks.
White, L. Grey, Grey, Black, Brown, Pink, Red, Orange, Yellow, Lime, Green, Cyan, L. Blue, Blue, Purple, Magenta.
I lead with brown and pink like that partly because those are the "naturally spawning" colors of sheep, and I started this with colored wool. So natural sheep colors, then all the rest.
Okay okay so you’re tellin me…
Wait…
What? 😂
i'd move pink to the end next to magenta, then white→black. the shade of pink you chose is really closer in hue to magenta than red, anyway, and it preserves red as the first color in the rainbow. that's the color order I'd use as a kid, though I stuck brown next to black or on the other side of red since I wanted the rainbow portion to be fully saturated.
Ahhh, can’t listen to a video about color at work
ROY G CI > ROY G BIV
no one can prove otherwise
This was awesome
I had to like the video for "eyentist"
6:38 I think there might still be infinite colors because of the phycology of how we perceive colors based around what other colors they are around, red surrounded by peach and red surrounded by indigo will likely look wildly different and be different colors at least subjectively
Commenting for the algorithm
if you had a filter that was perfectly filtering all frequencies of color beside the one you want, it wouldn't appear transparent. you have to let a few more frequencies in to see through the filter.
This reminds me of playing Animal Crossing... You should have played the Able Sisters Theme lol
I respect you colour spectrum idea, but I think that the colours from the primary and secondary colours from RGB (pixels on computers, RYGCBM) and RYB (painting ROYGBP) could join to make an alright-ish 8 colour spectrum like this : Magenta/pink , red, orange, yellow, green, cyan, blue, purple/violet.
100³ = 1M works when those channels are fully independent.
But the sensitive frequency ranges for our three color cones overlap significantly, so it's not possible for those 1M frequencies to exist in reality.
There isn't a photon that, for example, stimulates our green cone to any level without also stimulating the red and/or blue one cones with it.
That "indigo" is just true blue
6:44 Destiny jumpscare lol
watching this to learn how my pencils should go in the box
good work 👍
Yes, they are in the correct order...because that's how physics works.
Pink is light red. Brown is dark orange. All those other colors you listed are just shades of the basic hues. It doesn't make sense to line them all up in an order, there's also lightness/darkness and saturation. All colors that exist could probably be arranged in a cube formation, with one axis for hue, one axis for shade, and one for saturation, though the shape probably wouldn't be a cube, it would probably taper down to pure black on the shade axis, and similarly the edge for the lightest possible shade and zero saturation would just consist of pure white, and the less saturated side would be flatter, i think.
dang didnt know so many colors existed
There are infinite number of colors in the sunlight in the sense that the spectrum of *possible* photon energies is continuous. I agree that during a finite duration we can receive a finite number of photons in a visible spectrum. But in the next second we could get a photon with literally any energy in a visible range.
I mean I'd just organize them by rgb or hsv value. Have one color go to the next that is mathematically closest
Quality videos as always
As far as im aware, although photons come in distinct energy levels, those correspond to the number of photons not the frequencies of photons, so there are infinite different frequencies of photons but photons are not emitted as a continuous wave but rather in distinct “amplitudes” or quanta (I.e. photons). However yeah, the human eye wouldn’t be able to distinguish an infinite amount of frequencies, only some form of compromise of the frequencies they receive, which the brain creates.
Of corse they're in the right order silly,
Blue green yellow orange red violet indigo.
What other way would it be?
Then you wedge all the sub-variants in, put brown on the Y axis under orange and black, gray and white go on the W axis.
BWG
Bgyorvi
B
Colour wheel, brotha!
My color order for crayons has always been:
Red, Orange, Yellow, Green, Teal (Cyan), Blue, Purple, Pink, Tan, Brown, Black, Gray, White.
Hey! So king crimson is a wierd one ill admit, but his ability is much easier to understand in the thematic context of the show. So the way I see it, is that when he "erases time", he isnt really "erasing" much of anything besides his own destiny. Essentially, his substand epitaph allows him to see what his "fate" is. However, using king crimson he can "skip" 10 seconds of time as in he can decide not to allow that "fate" to happen to him. However, it only nullifies his own "fate", so everyone else is still in the position they were fated to be in, had diavolo done what he was "supposed" to do. OVERALL his stand essentially allows him to circumvent fate for 10 seconds.