Based on everything that many former players have to say about Babcock, I think John Shannon is being very favourable in his judgement. None of these guys have a single good thing to say about Babcock, so the idea of this was just misinterpreted his method of trying to bond with the players doesn’t pass the smell test .more likely he was just trying to intimidate the younger players from a position of power
He bought hook, line, and sinker that PR statement from CBJ lol Turns out Biz was right in the end (there are reports that the little that has come out is quote "just the tip of the iceberg"). And yes, this was never about "bonding." It's crazy with his track record this guy still gets the benefit of the doubt. Babs is a smart guy, people have to start entertaining the notion he knew EXACTLY what he was doing. Dude has a post-grad work at McGill in sports pyschology. I'll grant him this, he is a GREAT talker. His CBC interview on menal health from a few years ago, his interview on this podcast; he knows how to talk in a way that makes people believe in what he's saying. What he didn't count on this whole thing was it getting leaked to an outlet (like Spittin' Chiclets) that would actually air it. At worst, he thought it might be something to handle internally. Never dreamed it would ever be public.
Remember Shannon says John Davidson is his best friend in the world - he is going to paint it in the most favorable light. Reading between the lines - you can tell Shannon is not a Babcock fan - but he is not going to use this podcast as a tool to stick it to his buddy
@@pjpredhomme7699 Steve Simmons said he thinks John Davidson is a good guy and that he's known him for 40 years but also that Mike Babcock is a "narcissist" in a video posted on the Sun's website today lol
I hate how Darren and Bob are giving Babcock the benefit of the doubt because he's older and he's won stuff before. Given what we know about his interactions Mitch Marner, Mike Modano, Jason Spezza, and especially Johan Franzen, I don't think we can put it past Babs using this as a mindfucking tactic over his rookies who don't feel empowered to say, "No, you can't look at my phone"...generational divide my ass, guaranteed his meetings with Boone Jenner and Johnny Gaudreau were much different than his meetings with say Cole Sillinger or Adam Fantilli or Kent Johnson...Mike Babcock is a bad person and a bad coach and Columbus and the league will be better with him not there. In the words of Badger Bob Johnson, a truly great person and a great hockey coach, "It's a great day for hockey" now that he's gone for good
Mike Babcock was playing mind games with the players pure and simple. He wanted dirt on the players for manipulation purposes. That's what his modus operandi has been for years according to his former players and NHL executives. To suggest he went about it the wrong way is in my humble opinion B.S
My only problem with your conversation: 7:57 - "That rink in Columbus is not full. I'm sure they thought that'd sell some tickets..." My man, CBJ pulled better regular season average numbers than the New Jersey Devils and the Florida Panthers in a season where they finished 2nd-to-worst in the league. Compare with other bottom feeders: Anaheim Ducks: 14953 San Jose Sharks: 13988 CBJ: 16860 Chicago Blackhawks: 17167 (Original 6 and larger arena, maxes at high 22,600+) And the best stories of the 2022-2023 season: FLA: 16682 NJD: 15207 CBJ: 16860 Their best gross attendance comparable is the New York Islanders, a playoff team, who pulled 16912 average. CBJ were second-to-worst in the league. CBJ Nationwide Arena: 16860 / 18500 = 91.1% Pittsburg Penguins PPG Paints Arena: 17816 / 19758 = 90.2% Toronto Maple Leafs Scotiabank Arena: 18753 / 20511 = 91.4% By capacity, they outdrew the Penguins and took a run at the Maple Leafs. You can say what you want, but their fans show up.
These excuses for Babcock are too much. It was prime Babcock manipulative power move. There are various ways to share pictures digitally in this day and age. If he wanted pics, ask them to send you several pics of their choosing and have your bonding experience. There's no way phones should've have ever been involved. He had a different meeting with those younger players who he wanted to establish dominance over. He was looking for dirt in those picture rolls ala' why aren't you playing better if you weren't drunk on a boat all summer and conditioning yada yada yada. These are power moves by this man that he's used in various ways throughout his career. Also, let's be clear Jenner and others vets probably actually had family snaps in their phones. What young adult have a bunch of family snaps in their phone? They have fun vaca pics, girlfriends, boyfriends, parties, hobbies, etc. Even if he thought they had wholesome family pics in their phones after the first few meetings he would've quickly found that was not the case and reversed course. Im sure several of those guys were like wait I'll have to grab some from social media or go through my cloud. This wasn't about family pics. Babs is well versed in sports psych and gets off on shame/intimidation as a way of having power. Please stop making excuses for this manipulative ex-coach.
John Shannon is just one of the good old boys! Hockey culture will only change when these dinosaurs are out of the game…luckily he’s just a podcaster now but he’s still has a voice that supports what’s wrong with hockey…
Very. very rarely do people change, Someone with his personality - I am sure he thinks there is nothing wrong with what he did . Has anyone ever heard him admit fault ?
This would have looked ten times WORSE had Babcock accessed players personal info without them knowing it -- but he openly REQUESTED access to their phones...
I'm an optimist by nature but I also try to take a skeptical view when the masses all move in lock step. We all know what Bab's did. Let's look at what others did. When asked to show pics on phone, some players had no issue. Others apparently did so, but then ran to social media folks to spin a narraitive. Since when can't a grown professional tell a coach no thanks? Do we really think that players feel vulnerable that if they don't comply, they will not get ice time or make the club? Especially with Babs back ground and the league instituting so many checks and balances for the players ever since the Black Hawk wrong doings a few years back. Several players on the Blue Jackets said they had no issue and so did prior players on the Leafs. Let's not kid ourselves, there is a number of people in hockey who either have influential roles or know people in those roles and they can use them to wreck havoc on people's life. They in effect are conducting themselves the same way Babs has been labelled. And in terms of prior examples, the Mitch Marner one is a joke. Every professional corporation asks their mid and senior leaders to rate their fellow employees and bosses. Mitch is a fave player of mine and he's faced much more challenging things on his climb to the NHL then this Babcock issue. My take, Bab's is tough but fair. He's a winner and its sad they he will now be lost from coaching. But he is not this destroyer of young men narrative that is being peddled. Chin up Babs. Health and happiness
Shannon is completely off the mark and coming off like an “old, hockey guy” here. Not malicious? No ill intent? He was going through some players’ phones and pictures for over 10 minutes in his house. Every former player is unanimous in their opinion on this and what Babs was trying to do. He was trying to get something on these young players to use against them later. God knows the comments he was making while looking at some of their pics. Anybody who believe he was trying to get to know the young players by doing this is but just “didn’t know how” are either stupid themselves or they have a hard on for Babcock and his resume. Period.
Chris Chelios who played under Mike Keenan in the early 90s and was considered a rough old school player had nothing but bad things to say about Babcock. This notion that it's only younger players is evidently wrong.
Based on everything that many former players have to say about Babcock, I think John Shannon is being very favourable in his judgement. None of these guys have a single good thing to say about Babcock, so the idea of this was just misinterpreted his method of trying to bond with the players doesn’t pass the smell test .more likely he was just trying to intimidate the younger players from a position of power
He bought hook, line, and sinker that PR statement from CBJ lol Turns out Biz was right in the end (there are reports that the little that has come out is quote "just the tip of the iceberg").
And yes, this was never about "bonding." It's crazy with his track record this guy still gets the benefit of the doubt. Babs is a smart guy, people have to start entertaining the notion he knew EXACTLY what he was doing. Dude has a post-grad work at McGill in sports pyschology. I'll grant him this, he is a GREAT talker. His CBC interview on menal health from a few years ago, his interview on this podcast; he knows how to talk in a way that makes people believe in what he's saying.
What he didn't count on this whole thing was it getting leaked to an outlet (like Spittin' Chiclets) that would actually air it. At worst, he thought it might be something to handle internally. Never dreamed it would ever be public.
Remember Shannon says John Davidson is his best friend in the world - he is going to paint it in the most favorable light. Reading between the lines - you can tell Shannon is not a Babcock fan - but he is not going to use this podcast as a tool to stick it to his buddy
@@pjpredhomme7699 Steve Simmons said he thinks John Davidson is a good guy and that he's known him for 40 years but also that Mike Babcock is a "narcissist" in a video posted on the Sun's website today lol
Agree, Frank Corrado had issues with Babcock and I believed what he had to say
@@pjpredhomme7699 John Shannon always does this with his friends in the business, he's essentially part of the old boys club himself.
I hate how Darren and Bob are giving Babcock the benefit of the doubt because he's older and he's won stuff before. Given what we know about his interactions Mitch Marner, Mike Modano, Jason Spezza, and especially Johan Franzen, I don't think we can put it past Babs using this as a mindfucking tactic over his rookies who don't feel empowered to say, "No, you can't look at my phone"...generational divide my ass, guaranteed his meetings with Boone Jenner and Johnny Gaudreau were much different than his meetings with say Cole Sillinger or Adam Fantilli or Kent Johnson...Mike Babcock is a bad person and a bad coach and Columbus and the league will be better with him not there. In the words of Badger Bob Johnson, a truly great person and a great hockey coach, "It's a great day for hockey" now that he's gone for good
Hard to convince players to play for each other, when the head coach is a narcissist and the world revolves around him
Feel better soon, Bob.
☮
"Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity." Robert. J. Hanlon
Babs is definitely a malicious guy.
@rodberghumanwrites9453except it doesn't work in this case
Babcock had not reformed and he wanted to intimidate the younger players, Biz was right to blow the whistle
The only thing he did wrong was name Jenner, even he said he would like that one back...other than that, no regrets he says
Mr Shannon, looks like a fine mug of Guiness your sipping...cheers
Mike Babcock was playing mind games with the players pure and simple. He wanted dirt on the players for manipulation purposes. That's what his modus operandi has been for years according to his former players and NHL executives. To suggest he went about it the wrong way is in my humble opinion B.S
My only problem with your conversation:
7:57 - "That rink in Columbus is not full. I'm sure they thought that'd sell some tickets..."
My man, CBJ pulled better regular season average numbers than the New Jersey Devils and the Florida Panthers in a season where they finished 2nd-to-worst in the league.
Compare with other bottom feeders:
Anaheim Ducks: 14953
San Jose Sharks: 13988
CBJ: 16860
Chicago Blackhawks: 17167 (Original 6 and larger arena, maxes at high 22,600+)
And the best stories of the 2022-2023 season:
FLA: 16682
NJD: 15207
CBJ: 16860
Their best gross attendance comparable is the New York Islanders, a playoff team, who pulled 16912 average. CBJ were second-to-worst in the league.
CBJ Nationwide Arena: 16860 / 18500 = 91.1%
Pittsburg Penguins PPG Paints Arena: 17816 / 19758 = 90.2%
Toronto Maple Leafs Scotiabank Arena: 18753 / 20511 = 91.4%
By capacity, they outdrew the Penguins and took a run at the Maple Leafs. You can say what you want, but their fans show up.
The players had their knives out before he even got the coaching job
These excuses for Babcock are too much. It was prime Babcock manipulative power move. There are various ways to share pictures digitally in this day and age. If he wanted pics, ask them to send you several pics of their choosing and have your bonding experience. There's no way phones should've have ever been involved. He had a different meeting with those younger players who he wanted to establish dominance over. He was looking for dirt in those picture rolls ala' why aren't you playing better if you weren't drunk on a boat all summer and conditioning yada yada yada. These are power moves by this man that he's used in various ways throughout his career. Also, let's be clear Jenner and others vets probably actually had family snaps in their phones. What young adult have a bunch of family snaps in their phone? They have fun vaca pics, girlfriends, boyfriends, parties, hobbies, etc. Even if he thought they had wholesome family pics in their phones after the first few meetings he would've quickly found that was not the case and reversed course. Im sure several of those guys were like wait I'll have to grab some from social media or go through my cloud. This wasn't about family pics. Babs is well versed in sports psych and gets off on shame/intimidation as a way of having power. Please stop making excuses for this manipulative ex-coach.
I doubt this story has received any attention in America, especially with football back.
I hockey markets this story got a lot of play
I'm in China and I like it because hiring Babcock makes NO sense whatsoever. Massive D-bag.
John Shannon is just one of the good old boys! Hockey culture will only change when these dinosaurs are out of the game…luckily he’s just a podcaster now but he’s still has a voice that supports what’s wrong with hockey…
Babykock needs to be banned hopefully it happens now.
The league has got to stop hiring rethread coaches. Need to bring in coaches of different color, backgrounds
It just goes to show people donot change.
Very. very rarely do people change, Someone with his personality - I am sure he thinks there is nothing wrong with what he did . Has anyone ever heard him admit fault ?
How would he not know how to do it...he just spent 2 years at the University level
Biz was right, stop making excuses for the coach
This would have looked ten times WORSE had Babcock accessed players personal info without them knowing it -- but he openly REQUESTED access to their phones...
Well one would be illegal. The other one is woefully unethical lol
Leafs proved Bab was toxic when they went out and played gritty after he was fired and won the Cup.
Is this just a hockey problem, or any league that turns a blind eye to abusive behaviour in sports?
I'm an optimist by nature but I also try to take a skeptical view when the masses all move in lock step. We all know what Bab's did. Let's look at what others did. When asked to show pics on phone, some players had no issue. Others apparently did so, but then ran to social media folks to spin a narraitive. Since when can't a grown professional tell a coach no thanks? Do we really think that players feel vulnerable that if they don't comply, they will not get ice time or make the club? Especially with Babs back ground and the league instituting so many checks and balances for the players ever since the Black Hawk wrong doings a few years back. Several players on the Blue Jackets said they had no issue and so did prior players on the Leafs. Let's not kid ourselves, there is a number of people in hockey who either have influential roles or know people in those roles and they can use them to wreck havoc on people's life. They in effect are conducting themselves the same way Babs has been labelled. And in terms of prior examples, the Mitch Marner one is a joke. Every professional corporation asks their mid and senior leaders to rate their fellow employees and bosses. Mitch is a fave player of mine and he's faced much more challenging things on his climb to the NHL then this Babcock issue. My take, Bab's is tough but fair. He's a winner and its sad they he will now be lost from coaching. But he is not this destroyer of young men narrative that is being peddled. Chin up Babs. Health and happiness
Shannon is completely off the mark and coming off like an “old, hockey guy” here.
Not malicious? No ill intent?
He was going through some players’ phones and pictures for over 10 minutes in his house.
Every former player is unanimous in their opinion on this and what Babs was trying to do. He was trying to get something on these young players to use against them later.
God knows the comments he was making while looking at some of their pics.
Anybody who believe he was trying to get to know the young players by doing this is but just “didn’t know how” are either stupid themselves or they have a hard on for Babcock and his resume.
Period.
Ask, Modano, Spezza and specially Mike Commadore about Babcock. Specially Commie.
Just because babs looks like a psycho….😂
John can’t you speak fluently?
Jim, can't you punctuate correctly?
Its very simple, Time has passed Babcock by, time to tap out Babs, your old and out of touch with todays players. :-)
Players today are figure skaters.
Why? Because their employer wants to invade the privacy of their phone? I'm sure YOU would be okay with that, right? LOL
Ok, now show me your phone! Don’t be a baby. show it to me!
Chris Chelios who played under Mike Keenan in the early 90s and was considered a rough old school player had nothing but bad things to say about Babcock. This notion that it's only younger players is evidently wrong.