Did Paul Think of Himself as a Second Christ Figure?
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- Опубліковано 18 лис 2024
- In this interview with Derek Lambert, host of @MythVisionPodcast , I explore a possible idea I have written about in my book Paul and Jesus, as well as Paul's Ascent to Paradise...links below. I am convinced that Paul thought he was a kind of "second" Christ--called for the salvation of the Gentiles/Nations, as Jesus as come as a servant to the Jews. This includes his sufferings, that he understood as shared with those of Christ. I also show that Jesus and Paul were likely born in 5 BCE, and that Paul's family was also from the Galilee in the north--and only after Herod's death, and the revolt of Judas son of Ezekias, were exiled to Tarsus.
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To me the Apostle Paul is Ray Kroc the Mcdonalds franchiser and Jesus the brother of James had the great first restaurant and recipe (along with John the baptist and Jesus). The Apostle Paul realized he could franchise it to the nations tweaking it and making it accessible to a wider audience. When he came to Jerusalem with money and testimony of its success that must of impacted the original leaders in Jerusalem... while unsure and uncomfortable of Paul's franchise version but maybe seeing the possibilities of their message to a wider audience.
Wow that was awesome
Right
And then Constantine was Paul's Harry Sonneborn by making Christianity pay by getting the church into the real estate business, and they franchised the equivalent of burger joints all over the world building their stores over some the best real estate in most of the urban centers across the globe.
Do you want a sip of wine with that sacramental wafer?
and plankton stole the secrete formula
@@willempasterkamp862 Krabby Patties Rule!
Thank you
Good Job James
excellent I love James and Dom as their scholarship carries with it a compassion for the subjects they cover. I would like James possibly to expound on that - his compassion for the historical John the Baptist and Jesus as it was a brutal and confusing world as it still is but I can imagine John and Jesus seeking answers in their world out of desperation in their crushing world full of disease brutality and death. The Apostle Paul could use some therapy but brilliant and desperate in his own right.
I am in the middle of reading the book "Paul and Jesus". I have been an Evangelical Christian for over 50 years, so I am struggling somewhat with the ideas. But it is very interesting to read.
is your faith founded on what Jesus taught? Or what the Herodian taught?
Jesus told us he would not appear in the Eremos (wilderness / desert) - don't follow ANY MAN who claims he saw him in the wilderness.
And the LORD said unto him, Go, return on thy way to the wilderness (Eremos in the LXX) of Damascus: and when thou comest, anoint Hazael to be king over Syria.
Then look at the parallels with Balaam.
Then look at Rev 2:2, 2:14, 2:21
How strait is the gate? How narrow is the way? Ask yourself.
You should just read the scriptures and try your best to apply them to your life. We'll all find out someday
I think mark was the 1st gospel written with insight/approval of the original 12 apostles. I think Luke comes later which is Paul/Luke’s expansion of the gospel. Then I think Mathew is written in response telling the same story as Luke but with all the corrections from the actual apostles view point. John is also written in response to Luke telling new stories that Paul/Luke didn’t know and a deeper meaning taught by Jesus. It also seems written directly towards Paul/Luke’s point of view. Acts through hebrews is written from Paul/Luke’s perspective. James through revelations is written from the original apostles point of view rebutting Paul’s ideas and again almost talking about him and his views directly without defaming him, as a good Christian would. 2 Peter is written a lot about Paul’s ideas and directly addresses him. Peter is the head of Jesus’ church. He knows Jesus told them to let the weeds grow up with wheat, that Jesus will sort them out later. Judas was amongst them and Jesus did not stop him. Peter knew to love his enemy. To forgive his enemy not 7 times but 70 times. The epistles of James, Peter, John and Jude are rebutting Paul in the most polite indirect way possible to be as truly Christian as possible the way Jesus himself taught us to be. It’s still an important lesson to have been learn in early Christianity and in all times. John speaks of antichrists, ones that could have full faith, but not true knowledge of Christ. Believing they had a direct line to god like Jesus did and knew his will better than others, even the apostles who walked with him. That being said Paul was the greatest evangelist of the time and brought many to at least believe in one god, Jesus his son and some of his teachings. Without Paul early Christian may not have survived. Now that it has it is time to rediscover the truth hidden in the texts and lost to time that Jesus brought us and started being passed down through the original twelve apostles. While my opinion is that Mathew, mark and john then James through revelations are true accounts passed down through the original 12 apostles and there for Jesus/God. They make more sense when related to Paul/Luke’s “scriptures”. So read the books again with the perspective/key that Paul was the evangelist but he didn’t get to know Jesus well so you can see where his ideas and stories don’t line up with Jesus’. The good thing is there is only one God, he is only good and he is only truth. So as misguided as we may become, we can always know him again it just takes work.
This is a good hypothesis
@@william6223 We were given intelligence and reason to not only understand earthly things but heavenly things too. To help us know God. The Holy Spirit which is a spirit of truth is all through the scriptures. Even if man misinterpreted god and it ends up in scripture, that can still tell us deeper truths about how everything works. The revelation of the New Testament is that God is love and only good. Unfortunately evil and the devil are real too. There is an objective reality that we can use our intellect and reason to understand. Fundamental math and science grew into calculus, physics, chemistry ect. There is objective good as well. Unfortunately we have chosen not to use or intelligence and reason to grow to a deeper closer understanding of the ultimately good God. Which I think we should do. You can read the Bible and look for what is good. Relate it to was is god and true and doesn’t contradict itself. Then notice parts where God or godly people supposedly do bad things. Like cause people to fall down dead. We can reason that wasn’t done by a good loving God. That was either done by an evil entity or the story was influenced by one. I do also believe that one who lives as good of a life as they possibly can they become closer to the Holy Spirit and it works through them they also see it acting around them and guiding their thoughts. The higher degree a person can be good and holy the more the spirit guides and helps them. If you can look around the world and decide you see good and evil and that it’s not just a balanced nature that is what it is. Then we ought do everything we can to make it as good of a place as we can. This is not as easy as we humans like to think it is, many evil things have been done by people who thought they had good intentions. This is why striving to become closest to God who is Love as we possibly can is the most important thing in life. Climbing the ladder of knowledge to understand He who is only and the ultimate good is how we can bring him more into this world and drive out evil. That is possible and is his ultimate desire for us to reconnect with the spiritual world and bring his kingdom here on earth.
Seems to me, Paul had committed so many atrocities that, the only path to salvation was the Christian one.
You have no evidence whatsoever to support your claim. The only atrocity that Paul did was lying, " God is my witness, I lied not!!!"
Gary Fire It seems that Paul had to be humbled (Acts 9:1-9) but was extremely pious (Philippians 3:6). What makes it complex is that Israel's heart has been hardened towards Jesus until the last gentile believes (Romans 11:25-29).
@@arielshapiro3099 Philippians is a forgery of Paul.
When you carefully review all of Paul's life & go deep into history & read what others said about him, you will see a different story...Yes atrocities...but preaching a doctrine that went completely against the teachings of Jesus & contending with the other 12 apostles, it becomes evident that Paul's agenda goes far deeper...He had a lot of influence in the courts & with the Herodian bloodline & even admits them to be KINSMEN with him...Herodians were Edomites...and known to be Pharisees...What did Jesus warn about the Pharisees? Not only did Paul admit he was a Pharisee, but BRAGGED, "I'm A Pharisee of Pharisees"....Pretty strong statement !!!! At what point do we just ignore these matters?
@@heavenswindsong There are actually two gospels (Galatians 2:7-10).
-Paul was appointed to the gentiles and delivered the correct message to his audience (Romans 11:13, Galatians 1:16, 1 Timothy 2:7, 2 Timothy 4:17, Romans 2:16).
-Jesus and the other 12 are appointed to Israel.
(Matthew 15:24 --> Matthew 19:28 --> Matthew 10:5-6 --> James 1:1, 1 Peter 1:1).
Sweet Jesus - listening to Tabor I suddenly understood what the “messenger of the ummah” or “people of the Ummah” or the “illiterate” people/ prophet mean - that means those from either the Jews or Judeo- Christian (Nazarene) who go and preach “to the nations” or the non-Jews. THAT is the reason why in the Quran the “illiterates” come from various religious backgrounds. These are those who are “on the mission.” That is what Islam took from Christianity- the missionary agenda
Calimero ; '' Y'all are great and i'm small ; and that's not fair ''
I'm at the dream part. I've had dreams as well. I've had dreams where I'm so terrified, me sweating was hurting. It hurt to sweat. I've had dreams.
What if Paul actually overtook the early Jamesian sect for the sake of the Jewish establishment at that time then later the Roman Empire overtook Christianity?
That's a hard question because Paul hasn't got any internet accounts.
I really think Paul was a hard core meditator. He definitely did chakra work and delt with his own Kundalini for sure. I'm surprised how many people skip over that, and don't look at that as one of his daily practices.
Scriptural references please for said Kundalini and chakra stuff?
@@Benjamin-jo4rf the holy spirit is Kundalini.
@Benjamin scholars like Bart Ehrman don't just use the bible to get their knowledge. Sometimes you got to look at cultures, linguistics, and mythologies. If your only looking at one source, your going to be limiting yourself. Any university scholar who studies religious studies in a whole would agree that Kundalini is the holy spirit and it has many many different names going back through different cultures and religions. I don't fight or debate with people on this, I just inform people and give facts. I study what Bart Ehrman and this guy talk about from a cultural anthropology point of view that deals with meditation and Kundalini and what was being practiced in ancient days with it. After the second building of Solomon's temple Kundalini meditation got outlawed. You could get killed for doing that practice. Only the very few could practice it.
@@joelrappaport1034 i totally understand why people would persecute Kundalini hippies. I've been to crestone Colorado and San Francisco California. I wouldn't mind not having to deal with those types of people myself. But besides the worshipping and playing spiritual games with demonic spirits they seem like pretty kind people who appreciate many of the same things I do but the toying with the spiritual realm can have some serious ramifications
@@joelrappaport1034 hahaha ok the Ruach Hakodesh is Kundalini, yaaaa no. Stop eating mushrooms and doing yoga. It's gone to your head.
Todays term he was a narcissist or bipolar who felt empowered by the roman empire Christianity push.
Predestination is always a problem for persons seeing an infallible God. Most religions seem to have this problem.
determinism and free will is an issue in secular philosophical circles as well. you are just ignorant of the issue
No way he would be happy with being number 2.
And it's a good thing that he learned from the bible there's no rapture, it's a mistakenly thought of people who think higher than himself than others, anyone who thinks they are something they have a rude awakening, great video thanks for sharing your knowledge,
Wrong. It's any minute. ⚡⚡
Paul both irks and impresses me
A serial killer is seen as your savior. The person who was part of killing all holy men and women during Jesus Christs time is the one to look up to.
Well folks, there is nothing more I can say other than good luck following him to where he came from!
Isaiah chapter 8 verses 11-13
read them over and over again and if you cant hear what they have to say, keep following paul!
And Jesus said Luke 22:48 But Jesus said unto him, Judas, betrayest thou the Son of man with a kiss? I couldn't help but notice how many times Paul said Greet one another with a Holy Kiss. And Isaac was betrayed with a Kiss. Gen 27:26 And his father Isaac said unto him, Come near now, and kiss me, my son. Oh! Those Greek Plays!
Paul is a bunch of Malarkey
The thumbnail picture is very interesting. Is that supposed to depict Christ on the left and then the Antichrist on the right or Paul?
Edit: The demon on the throat of the mirrored image on the right sticks out.
No it's one picture of Jesus. The left side is mirrored for one and the right for the other. My understanding is that the difference in the halves was meant to be his flesh and divinity.
It's called Christ pantokrator.
@@dairyqueue I understand it’s mirrored and that usually it looks like the human side and divine side. This one looks different though, more good and evil. Even looks like a demon on the throat of the one on the right.
@@josephposenecker9741 I don't think that was intentional. It seems to me to be the shading on the neck
@@dairyqueue it just came across to me to look like Christ on the left and the antichrist on the right.
What you said at the end confused me a bit, I would think Paul got that idea of celestial family from the OT prophets?
What did Paul do to stop persecution of "Christians , the knew Nero
He Knew Nero ?
What about !?, In GOD, with GOD, through GOD, by the will of GOD; all things work in their fullness
" together " for good.
What about it? Being a Biblical scholar, a Professor of Ancient Judaism & Early Christianity doesn't mean you believe in God. Far from it.
I can't help thinking that he was a profound legalist before his conversion, and that stuff doesn't leave you completely, no matter the striking nature of his transformation. In some respects, he was still a controlling legalist in all the letters he wrote. Obviously a brilliant and visionary man, but still a zealot of sorts.
I am sorry, but i have to disagree on Paul thinking he was a christ figure, Paul actually wrote everything we need to know about what he did.
He was send out to erase the teachings of Jesus from this earth.. and that he did.
At first he was procecuting the followers of the teachings of Jesus, but i think he realized that it would not work fast enough.
So he changed his ways, he might have had a vision, but it certainly was NOT the spirit of christ, it either was a spirit pretending to be or he made it all up himself.
If we look at 1 Corinthians 9 verse 20-22 tells us that he decieved people to get his way.. And that is 100% not how he would act if he realy had met Jesus in his vision...
So yes Paul erased the teachings of Jesus succesfully by adding fake news to it, but ohhh boy if only he knew how that would turn out for the Jews that hired him.....
It is not realy that complicatd, but no christian will take it that way.. the same with Sarah (Abrahms wife) being a prostitude.. no Jew will take that...
Germanicus was a deceiver (pander, lombard, pandera/pantera) , a tout marketer but not a tentmaking jew.
@@willempasterkamp862 Abrahm was a deciever that started it all, decieving the Pharao by prostituting his wife to the Pharao without telling she was married..
What morals of that was in line with the idol book?
But they probably wanna crucify me for saying that again... not this time..
Paul did see Jesus Christ
Acts 9 As he neared Damascus on his journey, suddenly a light from heaven flashed around him. He fell to the ground and heard a voice say to him, "Saul, Saul, why do you persecute me?" "Who are you, Lord?" Saul asked. "I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting," he replied.
You are so wrong Paul hasn't eased nothing of Jesus you need to study the Bible properly before blaspheming. After Paul Jesus Paul became a follower of Jesus and started preaching the gospels you clearly dont have a clue what Paul was speaking about in his own gospel
@@tammybreckell2502 I do my study based on Genesis 3... i study all religions and other human behaviours to see what source of knowledge of good and evil they use...
Paul's source clearly is evil.. if you do not believe what he told you you will go to hell eternally to suffer... even if you destroy this planet and all live on it... that is just an evil source of knowledge of good and evil!
And is the opposite to the teachings of Jesus. He told humans to repent and be forgiven.... just as the old testament tells us.
I study the bible properly.. not to make something true, but to based on the thing that got us out of paradise... it is the only way to get paradise back!
Psalm 139 has a similar message of the pre-existent knowledge of YHWH.
islam doesnt categorically say Jesus' body double was crucified but that is one popular interpretation
That's a lot of guesswork. But if you wish to know the exact date of birth of Jesus, ask Jonathan Cahn. For the record, Shaul tried to kill me many times. He is the one known as the Anti- Messiah.
What on earth is Derek talking about?
president harry truman helped modern Israel come into existence and some old Rabbi, in a group visiting Truman in the Oval Office, told him, "This was the reason God placed you in your mother's womb." that's probably just a Jewish way of thinking.
yea,and james didnt agree with Pauls teschings .
Paul ; Just , James ; Less
WHAT?! Jesus HIMSELF said "I was not sent but to the lost 🐑 of the House of Israel" ("Mathew" 15:24), YET, he said this to the "SYROPHONECIAN" woman; the SECOND such NON-Judish person other than the SAMARITAN woman he ever conversed with whose area he VOLUNTARILY WENT TO!!
The Roman centurion whose servant Jesus healed doesn't count because HE CAME TO where Jesus was.
IS that draped object a covered TORAH ARK at the left??!
HOW was Jeremiah a "prophet to the Nations"? He ONLY prophesied to ISRAEL about its impending doom. He WASN'T sent to Syria, or to Arabia, or to Egypt, OR to Chaldea (as Jonah was sent to the Assyrians)!!
ALL the apostles, EXCEPT James who was based in Judea at Jerusalem, were sent "to the Nations". Peter went to Antioch in Syria, Judas went to Damascus in Arabia, Philip went to Caesarea Maritima in Samaria and down to Gaza, Thomas went to India, Andrew (AND Peter) went to Corinth in Greece, Nathanael went to Mesopotamia....
I have a BIG question I wish Pro. Tabor would answer me about: IF, as he has claimed, Paul's message of the mission of Jesus was so RADICALLY DIFFERENT and "MISunderstood" by him to the point of "making Jesus into 'Christ'" as OPPOSED to the views of Jesus' own brothers such as James and SIMON, then WHY did SIMON (Peter) in his epistles refer to Paul as "OUR MOST DEAR BROTHER Paul" and NOT claim that PAUL "twisted" the true message of Jesus into the "distortion" of Christianity BUT that IN Paul's letters are things that "the UNstable TWIST and DISTORT" to their own destruction??! He WASN'T condemning "Paul's" doctrines about Jesus, and of course NEITHER did James, but was condemning those who TWISTED and DISTORTED "PAUL'S TEACHINGS" about Christ to their own detriment. 🤔
Ahhh. It was 1 Corinthians 2.
No, Paul was simply a follower and servant of Christ. No "second Christ figure" going on there at all.
Wow nice refutation
@@mariod1547 Thanks.
The interviewer annoys me to no end. Sorry I know a lot of you like him and his channel.
no
Jesus is sinless. Paul is chief of sinners, he identified himself.🙏🙏🙏
Shaul was rapt in Narcissism. Yes, he wanted to be worshipped. That's why he founded Christianity. But how is it relevant for today? i don't see any relevancy. What is your point anyway? More Jesus parables were found in anicent Hebrew texts. There are many parables that the gentiles never heard of. Sad really.
Just call him what he is, The King of Apostasy
no he didnt,he even said were you babptised unto Paul.Butxhe did contridicted Jesus and Peter on some things.Thats whycall my final decisions on any subject Jesusxis the authority not Paul.His teaching was all over the place,and when you find anyone trying to find a loop hole in obeying the gospel,they always referr the Paul,every single time.
Prowling lion
Paul is another Christ or another Jesus and his name begins with P as in Pantera..and John the Revelator called & refer Paul as Abaddon in Hebrew and in Greek Apollyon....what does abaddon means ?..it is a Hebrew word for the phrase..your Father the Devil..told the Pharisees and why does Pharisee word begins with P as in Pantera?..take some hint why Turkey begins with T as in Torgamah..
Of course Paul was a prophet. But anyone chosen by God, was chosen by God's foreknowledge of who that person would be.
I have also thought that Paul could have been a second christ. But he took a backseat to the man who sacrificed his life for the cause.
This is very interesting.
The LORD JESUS CHRIST is ALIVE ask HIM for HIS Wisdom and HIS TRUTH. Paul TOTALLY endorsed the MESSIANIC PROMISES in Orthodox Judaism.
The LORD GOD has commanded that HE be Our ONLY Teacher and Father - Matthew 23:8-10. Also read John 17.
The LORD JESUS destroyed the works of satan as The PROMISED Messiah. I was led by The LORD GOD to study the MESSIANIC Promises in Orthodox Judaism, which is what The LORD referred to when HE spoke to the Jews about HIS IDENTITY as The MESSIAH.
I speak with PROOF of LIVING AN OVERCOMING life with NO FEAR (fear is a satanic spirit that can paralyze those who are ignorant of The TRUTH), healing of my body, protection and unlimited PROVISION as HE promised.
I was FILLED with The HOLY SPIRIT with the Evidence of speaking in other languages or Tongues about 25 years ago. The LORD JESUS is The HOLY SPIRIT and HE comes to LIVE IN us so that we are The LIVING TEMPLES of The HOLY SPIRIT - John 14:20, 1Corinthians 3:16, 2Corinthians 6:16-18.
christianity is a LYING DECEPTION rooted in pagan sun god worship roman catholicism. The LORD JESUS told me not to touch anything roman catholic. My obedience brought CLARITY and GREAT BLESSINGS - just walking into Blessings All the time, on a daily basis.
SPEAK to The LORD JESUS and seek HIS TRUTH - HE is The TRUTH.
Paul's a mess.
Paul was not sent tonearse nothing about Jesus. Paula gospel has nothing to do with Jesus Paul is speaking about his own experience its people like you who doesn't read properly and then stat say in Bible is corrupted when its not
I hate these kind of two way interviews. I would rather just see the guest give a lecture and not even have the host. Because the host contributes nothing.
The story of Job should tell you what evil can do, in fact, Psalms 82 should tell you that SCIENCE AND SPRITUALITY DOESN'T MIX, otherwise you too can PART THE RED SEA and your cat can talk like Balaam's donkey....science is 1 + 1 = 2 and it cannot be less or more than 2 BUT Spirituality is "ANYTHING"....you should stop working for the devil and weaken's people's faith with your science of LIMITATIONS.
Jesus' words may help understand why all these so-called scholars come out with theories. Never the truth. In prayer to God, Jesus says:
Matthew 11:25 At that time Jesus said in response: “I publicly praise you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because you have HIDDEN these things from the WISE AND INTELLECTUAL ONES and have revealed them to young children. 26 Yes, O Father, because this is the way you approved.
This is the everlasting Gospel. Paul's spirit was the spirit that was Jacob's in the womb while wrestling Esau. Isaacs spirit was in Lazarus who Jesus raised from the dead and who is the disciple whom Jesus loved and wrote the Gospel of John. Isaac is Andrew Wommack I. This life and Paul is Dean REDTKE his CEO master trainer. Esau heads up the healing school and Isaac's High places will be desolate. They teach the burden of the LORD. Isaac was in Smith WIGGLESWORTH also. No man showed me this truth. It was revealed by Jesus Christ himself. Who is here as Chaim Goldman Michael Roods buddy. Michael Rood was Aaron. They without us could not be made perfect. We are them, they are us he is not ashamed to call us brethren.
John the Baptist IS Jesus after his spiritual new birth when he was exalted and received his NEW NAME Phillipians 2:9-10. The same new name all firstborn or firstfruits of the spirit receive Rev. 3:12. John is the old nature 1st Adam, Jesus is new nature 2nd Adam. all resurreccted believers have dual natures (god-man) until we are glorified and depart this life on earth.
He was.