History of WWI Primer 050: Austro-Hungarian Steyr M.12 "Steyr-Hahn" Documentary
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- Опубліковано 3 гру 2024
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Othais and Mae delve into the story of this WWI classic. Complete with history, function, and live fire demonstration.
C&Rsenal presents its WWI Primer series; covering the firearms of this historic conflict one at a time in honor of the centennial anniversary. Join us every other Tuesday!
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Additional reading:
Vom Ursprung der Selbstladepistole: Repetier- und Selbstladepistolen in Österreich-Ungarn 1884 bis 1918. Österreichische Pistolen - Band 1
You can now find these and other books through our A-store. When buying through this link we receive a small commission that goes on to help with production.
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Original music provided by Melissa Hyman of The Moon and You
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Historical music from this episode:
Aller Ehren ist Österreich voll "92er Regimentsmarsch"
Safe range space thanks to Triana Protection
In collaboration with The Great War
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Additional photos thanks to Rock Island Auction
Ammunition data thanks to DrakeGmbH
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Animation Music from Vector Smash
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35:30 might be the greatest moment yet in this channel's history.
Fountain mode
No, it's Mae's laughter.
Borchardt: Steampunk Nightmare. Love it.
That might be a good name for the war that were declared.
@@johnd2058 more petrol punk, away from steam, not much diesel either.
@@austinm.9832 ... which would make the Weeabo-version of The Great War titled, "Borchardt: More Petrol Punk, Away from Steam, (Not Much Diesel Either) Nightmare." Good like getting it past marketing. A title that length only has a chance in the JAV market:
ボーチャードピストル：蒸気から離れた、より多くのガソリンパンク（ディーゼルもそれほど多くない）悪夢
@@johnd2058 if that was ever be made, i'd seriously want to watch it.
I suspect its ending would be when Borchardt got NTR'd by Georg Luger.
@@arya31ful I'm going to plug my ears and scream now.
"Hahn" as a translation for hammer comes from the back-and-forth motion, like a rooster (hahn) pecking at the ground
AfrikaKorp42 thank you
Talk about cocking around!
The Roth chicken or roth cock. Nice.
The older term cock for the hammer on a flintlock or to cock a hammer comes from the same similie
God I love this pistol, clip fed pistols aren't 100% practical but it just looks so cooooool
Good work as always.
Man, imagine if the Steyr 1912 had detachable box mags.
I kinda like the stripper fed design in the context of the time period.
If you consider the possibility that you might only be issued one magazine or stripper clip (less likely with the stripper clip), the stripper clip has the advantage of allowing you to load your pistol then reload the stripper clip for later.
Certainly would have been interesting in California...
@@VerdeMorte you do know we have standard guns out here, right?
the grip fin is the ONLY modification needed to make a gun compliant, and TONS of handguns are totally fine in cali with no modifications at all.
@@marcusborderlands6177 Copium
greetings from chile,where among gun folks this is know as an utterly indestructible pistol.
nice
Indestructible huh? Enough to survive +P ammunition or a 357 SIG conversion?
Seriously though, that idea seems sick!
(PS: Were these the inspiration for the Obregon?)
@@VerdeMorte I hate you for suggesting the idea of molesting a historical weapon by converting it to such an oddball modern caliber. That being said I am now quite intrigued about how that would actually look and work.
It’s complicated
@@BoozMcGroove
Sorry for that, I'm still limited by my vernacular vocabulary. I would be interested in a converted *reproduction* though at that point there wouldn't be much difference. There is also the idea of including features from other weaponry like the side grip loading Radium pistol or other odd variations...
“9mm Steyr coming out of this barrel is one of the sweetest sounds.”
How about a magazine full of 9mm Steyr coming out of the ejection port? Lol too funny
How about a WW2 Parabellum conversion?
*How about a Modern 357 SIG conversion?*
@@VerdeMorte please someone make this happen
The stereophonic revolver part caught me off guard. Very funny!
Taofledermaus, Ya gotta love 'Get Smart", that show could never get made today, It would offend too many precious snowflakes. It was made when people were allowed to have a sense of humor, and not be offended at everything they saw or heard.
They just HAD to insert the Mel Brooks reference...
I just got a Steyr-Hahn haven't shoot it yet will update when I do. For reference it's a 1915 serial block 8800J
@Frank McGovern I know they did. They forgot one critical thing. the original show was funny, the remake was just pathetic. One more thing, when you feel the need to resort to calling people names like "moron" and "douchebag" all you're doing is calling attention to how childish you are. Have a nice day.
@@jimvandemoter6961 People (Frank) resort to name calling when they have run out of viable arguments.
Just want to mention that the Colt 1902 did sort of get adopted by the Norwegians, right before Colonel Krag told the commission that the 1911 came out and that they'd need to test _that_ instead. The Norwegians at the very least saw it's potential.
4 real
The Norwegian replaced there Nagants revolvers M1893 with the M1911 in 1914. In 1915 they came to an agreement with FN to produce the Colt(!) M1911 at Kongsberg Våpenfabrikk with some minor adjustments that was later carried over to the M1911A1. Totaly 32.854 pistols were made until 1947!
@@gunnarkvinlaug7226 A friend of mine owns an original Kongsberg 1914 manufactured in 1924. It was the first pistol I ever shot, and I didn't find .45 ACP to be too bad to shoot even as a novice. It was fairly controllable. One thing that did hurt was the little loop at the bottom of the magazines, intended to be attached to a string or something to retain that mags. I tried loading a full mag into the gun with the slide closed and a round chambered, for a total of 8 rounds. Which meant I had to hit the bottom of the magazine to make it insert all the way. That hurt because of.that little loop thing.
you say long and boring show sir... I say the only reason every other Tuesday exists
Thorough and interesting as usual! Thanks a bunch for your diligent work!
It's great to see you guys having fun with this show, I got a good laugh in from Othias accidentally emptying the gun.
OK, you sucked me in. At first I looked at this and said "another Austrian handgun?" but I started watching and darned if I didn't stay until the end, and was glad that I did! Nice job team.
every time i see anything...."ANYTHING" made between 1850 to 1920 that i find odd, i will always use "What kind of steampunk nightmare is that!?"from here on out. This, Othais, is your unintended legacy.
also....Mae's laugh is priceless.
May has a cute laugh. I love you guys!
"we don't make a lot of the products you buy, we make a lot of the products you buy better." ~ German marketing campaign from 80's/90's for BASF
now with extra added teutonic over engineering!
milcoll73 Dual ignition spark plugs
I have seen the shoulder stock for this pistol; very nicely made.
I've been waiting for this episode since I saw your your "first ten episodes" episode. I was very impressed with the pistol itself and the cartridge which seemed to have decent energy. I'm looking forward to what's next. What an incredibly captivating preview for episode 51. I couldn't possibly fathom what it could be but it looks exciting. Congratulations on 50 episodes! Quite an achievement for the amount of content in each.
thank you
Othais,the sound of 9mm Steyr coming out of that gun is indeed amazing. You have an ear worthy of a composer. Albeit one whose music involves exploding powder in barrels.
thank you. and no, you are not just a communicator...historians with a PhD could not do a better job because you put yourself so much into that research...definitely a researcher!
In credit to Othias, he admits he is principally engaged in synthesis of secondary sources, so he is foremost a presenter of other peoples' original research. However, you would definitely be correct that he can be a bit too humble and not acknowledge how many original conclusions or discoveries he and Mae have.
Great episode guys. Congratulations on the 50th episode! Mae, you have a adorable laughter, and don't let anyone tell you different.
lol thanks
I was waiting for this one for a long time
Dudes, the Get Smart bit cracked me the heck up and it was genius to work it into this show :-)
I blame Taofledermaus
"it's a pretty good option if you're picking from the austro-hungarian stock" I'd say it's in the top 5 automatics world wide in 1915
SacoreyRugger why do you say that? it seems like a fairly normal stripper clip loading earlyish autoloader
Compare and contrast with the hedging that Othais and Mae have had with most other automatics of the era; typical points being:
- Reliability (e.g. Mannlicher, Steyr-Pieper, Glisenti)
- Odd(er) ergonomics (e.g. Mannlicher, Roth-Krnka, 1896 Mauser)
- Cartridge (all the .32s and the various other low pressure cartridges, e.g. Glisenti, possibly the Nambu), at times combined with over engineering (Frommer).
Also, note all of the odd guns that had competed against the Roth-Krnka just a few years earlier and the Steyr Hahn begins to stand out much more clearly.
The only autos that have gotten as good reviews (or previews) by C&Rsenal as the Steyr Hahn are the Luger P08, the M1911, and the Webley Automatic, and the latter was hedged by a reputation at the time for getting into problems if fine grained mud got into its tight fitting action. Also, you might add the Nambu to the lot, depending how you interpret their review.
Another pistol of the era that will probably not feature in C&Rsenal’s series, but might be said to sit in between the 1896 Mauser and the Steyr Hahn would be the updated Bergmann-Bayard/M1910. It had the advantage over the Steyr of being magazine fed, but with the magazine being placed in front of the trigger (as in the Mauser), it probably wasn’t as well balanced as the Steyr. As for reliability, I can’t say how the Bergmann would fare (though earlier one’s had lost out in most trials, the 1910 would do well enough to be adopted in Denmark).
Loved Mae's laugh! Don't feel bad that it's at your expense. Mere mortals like us are said to have "feet of clay".
If she says "Good job on a concept that makes me feel uncomfortable" you know you've done everything right.
Love the subdued 'war were declared'. Hehehe....
OMG, Mae's laugh!!!!!
-Jen
Othias! You and company hit it out of the park here.. I lost my head and bought a 2nd one at a recent gun show...yes...a 2nd one... Thank Mithras Midway stocks the brass! As to the Roth-krinka(Steyr ;) I own one I have had for 30 years. and love. I have fabricated 30 8mm RS brass BY HAND and then Fiochi FINALLY did a run. I spent the rent money that month. "Honest Hun, I NEED!!" Anyway. I have dozens of 9mm Steyr in strippers I have loaded. and some real packs of old commercial (1930s are the oldest). I am sayin, I know what you went through in research. dude. I respect, I know, and I salute....also....May is hot :)
Great stuff, Mae has the best laugh ever by the way.
You guys should do a lot more behind the scenes stuff. Othais, your failure was hilarious. Also, you look a lot better without that hat on. #nohomo
i second this! death to the hat!!! also, behind the scenes, some tongue and cheek humour fits you guys so well!
But the hat means I don't have to maintain my haor cut on top of everything else...
Someone get this guy a Kickstarter for his haircut! if Erik can do it...
I thought that the hat was to hide a bald patch, and was surprised to find out that Othais has a full head of hair.
@@DavidCowie2022 I just assumed he lacked the top half of his skull
You know what othias if you insist I'll rewatch all of your videos to catch up. 49 episodes isn't too many
At 3:32 "Steampunk nightmare"......priceless!!
All I could think when you introed Mae was "Good, Bad, I'm the one with the gun!".
Actually, Mae laughs like a jungle bird. :D
cannot wait. have fun.
These episodes make every other Monday night/Tuesday morning pretty awesome when you have to stay awake until 2 AM with a crying baby. Here's to 50 more episodes!
please tell me it is YOUR baby, or at least a baby you are supposed to have
If its awake, it's mine. If it's asleep, its the wife's.
A very funny moment what happened to othais, Mae, laughing and making fun of him is simply adorable
Another great episode!! also happy 50th episode guys!!! keep up the amazing work!!!
Was 9mm Steyr actually short of 9x19 around the time of WWI though?
9x23: 115gr @ 1184fps
9x19: 124gr @ 1080fps
They seem evenly matched in terms of ballistics.
Plus winchester 115 white box is an almost dead ringer for 9x23 steyr in terms of velocity and weight lol
Dear lord, that was my favorite episode of Get Smart ever
I was waiting for this handgun to show up.
Thanks Othais.
Greetings from Austria. Nice review, about the M12, which was very popular and famous in Austria, until today. From the combat-view, there's a lot of owners, considering the 9mm Steyr still as up to date, because this high potential " Steyr- Patrone 9mm", which can compete easily against the 9 Para . From the history, the K.u.K. Cavallary wanted to have a pistol with a fixed magazine, to avoid loosing magazines, while handling the pistol on the horses back and further the strong sling-ring on the grip, was required from Cavalllary. thanks for your great work - come to visit Austria !
Great episode and it always warms my heart when someone pronounces Budapest right! :)
Damn that Romanian M1912 is good lookin'
Probably should add that to the list
We have one of the P08 9mm variants. I will be running over to the armory tomorrow trying to divine the provenance of ours. Thanks for the serial number and markings explanation.
Glad we could help!
Wonderful work. Still a great episode almost 5 years later
congrats on episode 50. Really enjoy watching your reviews then trying out the gun in Verdun. Keep up the great work!
Thank you
Love the channel. Why do you never show the person operating the wind up gramophone at the range?
Suzie hates being on camera
This channel is priceless. I am late to the game, I've been binge streaming. Its like speed downloading weapons knowledge in The Matrix, but for WW1.
"Now I have the gun!" -Mae
"Now I have Mae!" -gun
"Ain't no one getting one of these,even if you don't want one." :).Great review as always.
Best. Episode. Ever.
Thanks!
It is impossible to give adverse criticism to ANY of these shows. Total lack of pomposity from anybody involved. Brilliant!
Mae fires that like a true Austrian noble
Thanks!
This was a great episode, great job guys :D
I should make a GIF of Othias fail
I wait patiently.
@@thegoldencaulk2742 Praise be!
I just picked up a 1915 manufactured M1912 and took another look at your video to check out disassembly, operation, and markings--excellent episode, by the way. On the hammer block issue, my gun does have a hammer block when the the safety is engaged with the hammer down. Setting the safety moves the hammer slightly to the rear and prevents it from moving forward. As you demonstrated, cocking the hammer moves the safety to the off position. So either your demonstrator has a broken part, or a hammer block was incorporated for some of the gun's production run. I wonder which.
I gotta say, I liked the space age look of the m.7 but the m.12 looks like a proper service pistol. It just looks right, and seems to function as such. I also like that rotating barrel idea.
I remember getting a bunch of these back in the mid 90's because they were C&R and DIRT CHEAP. I mean like $50 a pop. They were "babby's first" machine shop gunsmithing project. I converted them to accept removable Colt M1902 magazines. Did some adjustments with the extractor and such so it would headspace .38 ACP cartridges (it's very close to Steyr 9mm!). I thought it was so badass to do that because the whole reason they were so cheap was because of the fixed mag and oddball caliber nobody wanted. IIRC they were dumped from the newly ex-Yugoslavia arsenals. Ended up with some sweet little shooters for friends and family. To put it in perspective for you youngsters out there, you really couldn't get any decent semi-auto pistol (not counting small cal blowback) for less than like $400 back then (this is in 90's money, so like $800 now!). Like that was the price for mid grade S&W 4906 trade ins (service pistol beaters). And yes, I DID stamp "For .38ACP ONLY! Do not load .38 Super!" on the slide.
Great video! Extremely informative. I learned a lot. Thank you for putting it together.
Best sound I've ever heard come out of a pistol
My 11 year old and I play a game with your videos. We listen to the audio while you describe the action, and try to draw it from the description. Then we rewatch it and see who got closest to the real thing. With this one, she was dead on. I, on the other hand, was not even close.
You know what's great about this show? 20 years from now when 3-D printing is even better, people will be inspired to make modern reproductions of these old pistols that they otherwise wouldn't have known about. After you're done with these gems... send them to Cody Wilson so he can scan the parts and distribute their files.
An elegant pistol overall
Every time you say 1911 my brain keeps on reminding me of the episode that has yet to come.
My favorite pistol in the series to date.
Good video; I really loved the comedy aspects!
I also remember the Firealamsirenlaughter :P
Well done. Very informative.
"If you're watching a show as long and boring as this one"
Once upon a time I'd have found this show incredibly boring. Yet despite not owning any guns and having never even held one, Primer is actually one of my favorite series on youtube. :P
Great Episode. I can appreciate the comedy and amazing info. LOL !!!
thanks for the funny laugh! Ja ich bin ein Oesterreicher. I am happy to watch you guys with a smile.
Looks like next episode is going to be testing grenade skeet shooting!
Remember this is from the early 20th century with early 20th century manufacturing. It's much easier to make one internal mag & know it works then multiple mags & hope they work. Spring manufacturing & metallurgy were nowhere near where they are today.
As Othais pointed out in a more recent episode, most of the detachable magazine competition were issued with 1 or 2 magazines, once you had expended mag 2 you were empty. Stripper clip or enbloc clip ammo was packaged, from the factory, on/in clips so you could have pouches full ready to reload or even just a box of ammo in your pocket which would go straight into the gun without messing about loading a detachable mag.
In a recent Q&A when asked what historical firearm would be good for everyday carry Ian mentioned the Steyr Hahn and IV8888 rated it highly as a shooter. With hindsight, something of a dead end but, at the time, this was something most soldiers were very happy to be issued.
one of the best pistol's sound i've ever heard :0
Nice. IIRC, these things were showing up in what used to be Jugoslavia during the break up. In action.
Thanks for the big laughs greating from the Netherlands
at 34:28 I feel Mae is describing parts of the gun like some people describe fine wine. I would not have been surprised if she would have started to describe the "bouquet" of the gun. ;-P
Some guns are easier than others.
I'm glad you've got Mae to be your shootist. I'd be like: "gimmee dat!" "Oops! Sorry!" I speak from experience.
Excellent job guys
Othias' mistake reminds me of accidentally hitting a Sig P226 decocking lever with the slide locked back.
What does that do? Presumably not vomit all the cartridges out of the top of the gun...
@@ZGryphon just confirmed it myself, it does nothing at all except pivot and make you do a double take. I imagine anyone else watching would have a laugh though
13:18 I've read on some forum, that it was safe to carry it like that (lowered hammer + safety on) due to it having an inertial firing pin, and thats why they designed it so cocking the hammer would turn off the safety, making it easier to quickly fire.
tho im not 100% sure on that, so if im saying bullshit please tell me :)
That" true.
April 25th 2017. With the stereophonic gun bit I would have thought April 1st,,,,,,, Great show.
Isn't this the one in BF1 that when you reload with some rounds in the weapon they all spit out the top?
yes, it is
yeah I think so, if it is I'm glad cause I love it in BF1
Called the "Repetierpistole M1912" in the game.
Othais was kind enough to show us the remaining round ejection animation in real life.
Awesome episode! I was hoping you'd roll that old blooper footage, and then you did. You know, if someone took two of those double Steyr-Hahns, they could be QUAD-wielding!
"The Dude" accidentally ejects his magazine.
No body does the heavy reading man, thats something only comitted gun nerds like you and Ian McCollum do. I appreciate the short-ish version of the story I get from your channels without having to do the reading.
wow i never thought that our army got that weapon ??? you learn something new everyday
It was a pleasure meeting all of you at the NRA convention Friday morning. I hope you all had a great time and made some good connections.
Glad to meet you too!
WOW!
I wasn't listening as well as I should the 1st time I saw this.
The M.12 Is a Colt 1900/1902 with a rotating barrel & fixed magazine!
I owned one in 9mm luger 30+ years ago.
Best clip loading pistol ever!
the magazine follower looks similar to a makarov magazine follower. I wonder if it was influenced by the Steyr Hahn
Excellent educational video as usual! I'm sure you are aware that this pistol, and perhaps to some extent, the Mannlicher 1905 can be seen in certain movies and even a TV episode or ten in the hands of the "Bad Guys" and the occasional French, Italian, or Egyptian Police Officer or Army officer depending on just when and where the episode or movie supposedly takes place....But then the same can be said of the Mauser C96. And yeah, I'm one of those guys who can't help but spot the out of place and/or time firearm when watching TV or a movie....Blame John Wayne and his 1873 Colt and 1892 Winchester in movies that supposedly took place immediately following the Civil War....Love his movies but his firearms drive me bit nuts sometimes. Keep up the great work you do!
Interesting to observe recoil impulse with a rotary barrel locked breech design compared to the tilting block or straight blow back. Given same calibers, this seems most pleasant to shoot. (Compared to the Astra M400 especially.)
I like this action better than the browning style. Interestingly the new Chinese service pistol introduced in the 1990s uses this action.
The Steyer Hahn M1912 is a Intresting Prodoct of Time... for sure A' brave Partner in the Field and Combat ....like the Colt 1911A1...But to get one ...is A 1 to 100 000 Chance
Oh great, a new video. I have to get up tomorrow morning at 6 AM and work a 13 hour day so tonight I was going to go to bed early, not anymore.
I assume an oopsie moment was fixed with the ammo yea? also 35:27 button :3
I use this thing in my concealed carry classes to demonstrate the difference between clip and magazine
Excellent👍
I have shot one of these. It feels remarkably modern to shot...until you have to reload. The example I fired was not as smooth to reload but it was very smooth. It was accurate, reliable, felt good in the hand, and had rather good power. That round is about equal to today's standards when it comes to power. If it had a detachable magazine, I would not be surprised if the design did not last longer.
Certainly the best available.
Guys, I would assume I am speaking for several of us reloaders when I say that it would be AWESOME if your ammo guy/reloader would start a show on his mad science used to get some of these obscure rounds loaded up. I'm crazy like that. I'll buy obscure firearms just because people tell me I'll never have the patience to work up ammo for it, then go on a mission to prove them wrong. It's a lot of fun.......usually. Other times it can make you want to go all Tasmanian devil on your reloading room.
Toolness1 unfortunately UA-cam’s recent antics makes that a risky proposition. In addition, the extra time and effort would equate to an extra 70 hours without pay (and C&Rsenal does not have much time or extra money available).