And Army was still complaining and wanting magazine-fed rifle. That just tell you how terrible Lebel feed system was when this was considered an improvement.
@kiwigrunt To be fair, the US Army and Navy were trying out a number of Lee's rifle designs that were potentially superior to the Berthier. Yes the 1885 Lee was firing either .45-70 or .43 Spanish, so black powder rounds. But it was using a box magazine. If 1895 metallurgy was better, the Lee Navy in 6mm may have had a more impressive lifespan. The Trapdoor stayed around as long as it did for a couple of reasons: it was a known element, it was cheap, low ammo consumption, and it was "good enough".
Also, had they fully adopted the 1885 Lee, it would have basically been a Portugal Kropatschek issue all over again. Because 45-70 is not 8mm Black Powder small bore, that's for sure.
There was a big fight in the U.S. military between the old geezers who wanted to keep the old technologies and those that wanted a newer, better rifle and ammunition. Shucks, just the idea of repeating firearms made some of those old Fudds in the upper echelons of our military stress out over worries about troops “wasting” ammunition by firing too fast and running out of ammunition on the field of battle. Not until the Spanish gave our troops lessons in the efficacy of firepower did our military get it. Then, not until WW1 did the U.S. realize that they needed to buy more than just a few machine guns,plus airplanes, tanks, etc. The United States had a lot of catching up to do.
Actually "it came in at a time when the US" was evaluating over 50 different smokeless powder repeaters to replace the Trapdoor Springfield. For that matter the US Army had been conducting field tests of bolt-action repeaters since the late 1870's. All of them were found lacking in durability when compared to the Springfield.
@@maximilianolimamoreira5002 That one comes from "A well-regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a Free State". Still is. If we could grab any given Founding Father and show them around here, they'd be appalled at how we're dumb enough to BOTH let terrorists buy people-hunting-guns AND close the militia-AKA-National-Guard armories that used to be in just about every town and city worth marking on the map.
I can imagine Gun Jesus in his smoking jacket (with a pipe, and a glass of Scotch) sitting down in front of the computer to watch this video, and bless it. Praise be to Gun Jesus!
His smoking jacket is the pinnacle of fashion. Sadly, it's unavailable for us commoners. I asked him in a comment about where did he get it, and he said that his mom made it for him (which I found very wholesome, btw)
I've been a Patreon Patron about as long as you've been on Patreon, THIS episode is exactly why,, you learned something more and you redo the older episode to share with us. Great Job!!!
i used a berthier 3 shot carbine while deer hunting this past year.I could never get a clip to feed properly so i single loaded it. I loved every second of the hunt, and i agree it is the loudest gun i have ever shot.
(Re: loose rounds, 7:30-8:30) If you watch Mae(?) firing the Label (see previous video), you can see the rounds moving on the 'loading tray' before being chambered.
Thank you Ludovic and Ian. Quick question for the stars. Are reports of enbloc clips getting damaged and being unusable that common in the records? I would think that a clip with ammo would not be easily deformed because the bullets are supporting it and helping it maintain it's shape. Just curious.
The Berthier clip development is interesting of itself. Mannlicher clips were robust but expensive. Gew88 clips were flimsy. Berthier wisely chose a spring steel design that was tough, cheap, and simple to make (basically the same concept John C. Garand chose a few decades later).
I was a teenager in 1962, and I'd go to the Fish Canyon Gun Range in Monrovia, California, the only big bore range in the Los Angeles basin. Guns & Ammo Magazine would come out there from time to time. They'd go to a surplus shop, and the surplus guys would say, Hey, take a bunch of our guns and shoot as much as you want. Here's a bunch of free ammo. Enjoy! All they wanted was mention in Guns and Ammo magazine. Their group was four shooting positions away from where I was shooting one day. They had a table full of dented, beat up war surplus guns. They actually got paid for this! (Ah, heaven!) While they they were shooting there was a particularly LOUD EXPLOSION!!!! The range safety officer called cease fire, all guns on the table, etc., and people came running over to the Guns & Ammo spot. One guy brought a first aid kit. A Guns & Ammo guy was standing there with a stunned, goofy look on his face. He was holding a French Berthier carbine! There was nothing wrong with the weapon. It had an extremely short barrel. It did this EVERY time it was fired. They only fired it a couple more times. Without ear protection, you're going to get blood coming out of your ears! Terrible!
Okay, thanks to this video I can now appreciate just how much of a detriment the Lebel’s magazine was to its function. Particularly with cycling ammo intuitively.
Are you sure ? I'm French and I don't recall this being a thing, I'm not a gunsmith however. (hope this do not sounds rude, that's really not the intention)
Do be honest I don't even understand what a musket is in American parlance. There's still a school of musketry and in the Lewis Gun episode the predecessor to that was the Mcclain Repeating Musket Machinegun. None of that deals with anything resembling a musket by standard definitions.
13:31 the form is completely different but the function of the internal reminds of the Lee Enfield, especially with the V spring pushing on the sear and mag catch, along side the mag release being inside the trigger guard
Awesome episode guys. I've been waiting for the update on this one. I never knew that about the rear sight. I doubt the sling loop sounds so rattly when there is a sling installed.
Massive thanks to everyone involved in this excellent channel for keeping me sane through lockdown. I had to laugh when I saw the first new episode, which I had been eagerly anticipating for a week, was a remake. :P On the recurring theme of semi-pistol grips, was it military doctrine to use the sling to help anchor the rifle, making them less needed?
I would like one too, but looking at some of the data myself, Othais was surprisingly concise in that short episode when addressing the C96 as a military weapon in WW1. There is not much to say about the actual development as the gun was mostly done in private by the Fiderels, so no great records there. It sold mostly to civilians before the war, so not much to say there. The big story is really China's love affair with it, and that is not really a WW1 story. So, what we really will want is not a Primer Revisit, but whatever Othais will call his complete histories of guns from start to finish. Fingers crossed, the C96 will be one of the first of that!
This is my type of re-run. As always, great material and presentation. Of the carbines available to the Triple Entente, I would take the Berthier hands down over the others for fighting within a trench, despite its 3 rounds. Maneuvering with just about any other standard issue full power firearm in a trench would be a disaster waiting to happen IMHO. As for recoil, I've never heard anyone complain of recoil in combat.....now on the range that is of course another matter.
A sore shoulder is of little concern when the guy next to you just got wasted and there are incoming enemies approaching you at alarming speed. Far more noticeable at the range when your endorphin levels are closer to normal ranges.
Thank you to all that contribute to this channel.If you have merchandise I will buy and advertise. Vive la France, vive la guerre, vive la sacr`e mercenaire
G'day from the antipodes. I'm digging that GT stripe in yer hair Mae. (Channelling Lily Munster?) Doesn't distract from the quality content though. As always excellent work, & kudos to the entire production crew.
@C&Rsenal 26:50 To be honest I don't even understand what a musket is in American parlance. There's still a school of musketry and in the Lewis Gun episode the predecessor to that was the McClean Repeating Musket Machine Gun. None of that deals with anything resembling a musket by standard definitions. Just what about the McClean Machine Gun made it a musket?
@@DerekMitchell Lebel vs this? Lebel looks cool as fucc, but this is far more practical. Even with a 3 round clip. I know the French prefered the Lebel, but this gives you a higher overall rate of fire, and it's shorter.
This Berthier reminds me of Paciencia from Fallout New Vegas. Three shots of .308 out of a Post-Nuclear Desert Rat Mauser Clone or three shots of 8mm Lebel out of a WWI French Cavalry Rifle that is super comf until you fire it... Which would y’all prefer? Yeah one is from a video game but this is the internet so have at it kind lads and gentlewomen!
Is there enough give in the system to load a 3-rd clip, press down and over ride the top round to close on an empty chamber but full magazine? Sounds more interesting given the lack of a safety.
There was a modification to a Mannlicher system, that was originally supposed to drop the clip from the bottom of the action. The modification added a floor plate and a spring and would eject the empty clip through the top of the action when opened on empty, inside of the original way (through the bottom when the last round was chambered).
Mae :War isn't a video game and you didn't have the choice , Berthier does a great job . His carbine was adopted for Cavalry , Artilery and Police duty , think about it before judging -When WW1 broke , the french army didn't bhad any choice to adopt the Berthier in great scale It's always easy to judge in your armchair and american people made a lot of judgement about France and the french army . To a ridiculous point ( we will not go back to the 2000's and the freedom fries ) .
Question for anyone in the comments and C&Rsenal. If you were a nation in WW1 one with unlimited industrial capacity meaning you can choose anything, and one with the Industrial capacity of Italy or Austria what pistols, rifles, semi-auto rilfe/SLR, LMGs, and HMGs what would you choose?
Would you take this into battle is easy this time, yes but for the three shot clip. Bang, bang, bang and then having to reload means needing more men to keep up a constant barrage of small arms fire of course combining these Berthiers with Chauchats means having good support for your automatic riflemen as you assault machine gun emplacements. The French WWI mid war small arms trinity, rifle grenade Lebels, Chauchats for covering fire, and Berthiers for pinpoint shots.
As I was watching Othias describe the system for the Balle D and Balle M ammo sight alteration I actually said "Jesus H. Christ" outloud, ingenious stuff.
Ian makes the point that the M1 Carbine was a PDW not a front line battle rifle. All the WW1 roles assigned to the Berthier are those of a PDW. So the question becomes how is Berthier in comparison to a 1911 or a Luger. Maybe it would still fail, but comparing it to full sized battle rifles , when the French were not using it that way and had a battle rifle misses it point.
Not really. The Berthier shoots full on rifle ammunition and weighs almost 7 pounds. That's gonna rock you with recoil, have a lot of muzzle flash and wasted nergy, and still only carries 3 rounds. A purpose built PDW would shoot lower powered ammunition, have simpler sights, and ideally be even lighter. A bolt action 30 30 would work.
We are also spoiled by how well Garand clips are made.
We really are. Finding good Berthier clips could be a full-time job.
And Army was still complaining and wanting magazine-fed rifle. That just tell you how terrible Lebel feed system was when this was considered an improvement.
@@jakublulek3261 I mean, if it has multiple shots it has a magazine.
C&Rsenal is one of the few places where a re-release is a good thing
Agreed.
This is no mere re-release, this is a reimagining
Not being Bad Robot reboot is a good thing.
Damn if that is not the best way to describe these new re-releases.
2/5 not enough dewbacks.
When lamenting the limited three shot capacity, consider that this bang stick came in when the US still used the Springfield trapdoor 73…
Read about the 3 round remington ones made on contract, thats a fun read
@kiwigrunt To be fair, the US Army and Navy were trying out a number of Lee's rifle designs that were potentially superior to the Berthier. Yes the 1885 Lee was firing either .45-70 or .43 Spanish, so black powder rounds. But it was using a box magazine. If 1895 metallurgy was better, the Lee Navy in 6mm may have had a more impressive lifespan.
The Trapdoor stayed around as long as it did for a couple of reasons: it was a known element, it was cheap, low ammo consumption, and it was "good enough".
Also, had they fully adopted the 1885 Lee, it would have basically been a Portugal Kropatschek issue all over again. Because 45-70 is not 8mm Black Powder small bore, that's for sure.
There was a big fight in the U.S. military between the old geezers who wanted to keep the old technologies and those that wanted a newer, better rifle and ammunition. Shucks, just the idea of repeating firearms made some of those old Fudds in the upper echelons of our military stress out over worries about troops “wasting” ammunition by firing too fast and running out of ammunition on the field of battle. Not until the Spanish gave our troops lessons in the efficacy of firepower did our military get it. Then, not until WW1 did the U.S. realize that they needed to buy more than just a few machine guns,plus airplanes, tanks, etc. The United States had a lot of catching up to do.
Actually "it came in at a time when the US" was evaluating over 50 different smokeless powder repeaters to replace the Trapdoor Springfield. For that matter the US Army had been conducting field tests of bolt-action repeaters since the late 1870's. All of them were found lacking in durability when compared to the Springfield.
Just glad I could help a little bit.
Thanks!
Ian Mccollum sees the thumbnail.
*_Heavy Breathing_*
Maybe screaming at the footage if it is incorrect........... not that it is........ to date.
@@johnd2058 hail the Lord,for he has given us the right to bear arms,and now we can trash the evil forces,may grace be upon him,Amen.
@@maximilianolimamoreira5002 That one comes from "A well-regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a Free State". Still is. If we could grab any given Founding Father and show them around here, they'd be appalled at how we're dumb enough to BOTH let terrorists buy people-hunting-guns AND close the militia-AKA-National-Guard armories that used to be in just about every town and city worth marking on the map.
Epic username bro
As you can tell from the patent pending Gruntometer(tm) The Lebel is in fact heavier than most machine guns.
To be honest, I'm mostly here for the grunting.
,,,I don't want, to be
I wonder if in 50 years, as new information arises we'll have a Primer 00X******* on some weapon. The Ross rifle of historical documentaries.
Try the Lee Metford...
Primer XXXX MKII**
@@thesunsetdriver Fortieth = XV , and XXX would have been funnier. ;^P
I can imagine Gun Jesus in his smoking jacket (with a pipe, and a glass of Scotch) sitting down in front of the computer to watch this video, and bless it.
Praise be to Gun Jesus!
His smoking jacket is the pinnacle of fashion. Sadly, it's unavailable for us commoners. I asked him in a comment about where did he get it, and he said that his mom made it for him (which I found very wholesome, btw)
Jan Wacławik that is probably the most adorable thing I’ve heard this week
@@janwacawik7432 Woven by the mother of Gun Jesus, betcha it can clear malfunctions just by touching a gun's barrel.
@@janwacawik7432 that's some damn good mom skills, that thing is slick.
I always wonder how many of especially the French guns are actually loaned from Ian's personal collection.
All French guns out there are Ian's
All MY antique french guns are loans from Ian's collection.
I've been a Patreon Patron about as long as you've been on Patreon, THIS episode is exactly why,, you learned something more and you redo the older episode to share with us. Great Job!!!
i used a berthier 3 shot carbine while deer hunting this past year.I could never get a clip to feed properly so i single loaded it. I loved every second of the hunt, and i agree it is the loudest gun i have ever shot.
41:30. This show has a long history of ejected rounds flying out at othias.
(Re: loose rounds, 7:30-8:30) If you watch Mae(?) firing the Label (see previous video), you can see the rounds moving on the 'loading tray' before being chambered.
The whole issue with the elevator started during loading reminds me of the need to fire a "ghost round" on the MK-19.
41:28 ... "She has a button down there..."
Too cool.
Brian Rothhammer. Ha!
"It DOES exist, I saw it in a UA-cam video!" 😉
Oh my, I was wondering when they would revisit the Berthier.
A surprise to be sure, but a welcome one.
We will watch this video with great interest
I shall revell in the redux.........
This pleases the Church of Gun Jesus.
Amen.
Gun jesus and this is my favorite channel for nerdy gun details. Thanks for updating my favorite series.
Two men say they're Jesus, one of the must be wrong Gun Jesus smokiing, damn it's not a bong.
Thank you Ludovic and Ian. Quick question for the stars. Are reports of enbloc clips getting damaged and being unusable that common in the records? I would think that a clip with ammo would not be easily deformed because the bullets are supporting it and helping it maintain it's shape. Just curious.
The Berthier clip development is interesting of itself. Mannlicher clips were robust but expensive. Gew88 clips were flimsy. Berthier wisely chose a spring steel design that was tough, cheap, and simple to make (basically the same concept John C. Garand chose a few decades later).
Thanks @@MilsurpMikeChannel!
I see not being able to sleep led me to this video early woo
Welcome, old boy
It's been available about a day early on Patreon of late. And at a reasonable hour!
UA-cam at 3AM, perhaps?
Rock me mama, like an 8 lebel.... rock me mama it's loud as hell.....
Hey mama rock me
Rock me mama like a rifle that's French
Rock me mama like I got no trench
Hey mama rock me
41:26 loved the catch, mae's always playfully upbeat and I appreciate that
I was a teenager in 1962, and I'd go to the Fish Canyon Gun Range in Monrovia, California, the only big bore range in the Los Angeles basin. Guns & Ammo Magazine would come out there from time to time. They'd go to a surplus shop, and the surplus guys would say, Hey, take a bunch of our guns and shoot as much as you want. Here's a bunch of free ammo. Enjoy! All they wanted was mention in Guns and Ammo magazine. Their group was four shooting positions away from where I was shooting one day. They had a table full of dented, beat up war surplus guns. They actually got paid for this! (Ah, heaven!) While they they were shooting there was a particularly LOUD EXPLOSION!!!! The range safety officer called cease fire, all guns on the table, etc., and people came running over to the Guns & Ammo spot. One guy brought a first aid kit. A Guns & Ammo guy was standing there with a stunned, goofy look on his face. He was holding a French Berthier carbine! There was nothing wrong with the weapon. It had an extremely short barrel. It did this EVERY time it was fired. They only fired it a couple more times. Without ear protection, you're going to get blood coming out of your ears! Terrible!
"I want to fit my yellow little guy down there"
TMI, but okay.
Kato?
That sounds a bit unhealthy. Hope Othais is getting that checked out.
So did Mae have to wear ear muffs specifically for this gun because of the cartridge coming out of this barrel length or were the muffs a gift?
She is sooooooo country in this video.
@@davidbrennan660 That one shirt side untucked really sells it.
As always a riveting watch that passes in an instant. Thank you both for all the time and effort that obviously goes into these videos. Thank you.
Yay! I finally made it through all the episodes! What a binge!
Welcome to the long wait
Just watching this for the first time from the playlist and you can immediately see how much smaller and handier it is than the lebel.
Okay, thanks to this video I can now appreciate just how much of a detriment the Lebel’s magazine was to its function. Particularly with cycling ammo intuitively.
Thanks you Ludovic and Ian!
my favorite history channel with another wonderful video. i hope you guys never stop doing firearm history.
Do you happen to have any 32 french lounge?
They did run a Pedersen device...
32 French lounge sounds like fine jazz.
@@tamlandipper29 Yes, normally very smooth but when the dynamics heat up, it gets bombastic.
I'll see my self out.
16:35
How noble... how majestic... how- the Cuirassier on the right is picking his nose.
thank you people who help on this and Next primer
To add to the language confusion, in modern French a 'carabine' is rifled and a 'fusil' is smooth bored. Either can be of any length.
Are you sure ? I'm French and I don't recall this being a thing, I'm not a gunsmith however.
(hope this do not sounds rude, that's really not the intention)
@@Pratt_ really a carbine can be any length, unless you are talking about a legal definition made after the fact.
Do be honest I don't even understand what a musket is in American parlance. There's still a school of musketry and in the Lewis Gun episode the predecessor to that was the Mcclain Repeating Musket Machinegun. None of that deals with anything resembling a musket by standard definitions.
Yes I have noticed that they seem to call all rifles carabine on modern websites.
www.naturabuy.fr/search_result.php?title=carabine&univers=no
"Fusil" smoothbore ?
Source ?
That fireball and the clip "ping" though
Another wonderful episode
13:31 the form is completely different but the function of the internal reminds of the Lee Enfield, especially with the V spring pushing on the sear and mag catch, along side the mag release being inside the trigger guard
Awesome episode guys. I've been waiting for the update on this one. I never knew that about the rear sight. I doubt the sling loop sounds so rattly when there is a sling installed.
Beautiful remake of an old episode!
Looking forward to another one!
Massive thanks to everyone involved in this excellent channel for keeping me sane through lockdown. I had to laugh when I saw the first new episode, which I had been eagerly anticipating for a week, was a remake. :P
On the recurring theme of semi-pistol grips, was it military doctrine to use the sling to help anchor the rifle, making them less needed?
Quietly hoping for a C96 revist. Loved this one though, the Berthier is great.
I would like one too, but looking at some of the data myself, Othais was surprisingly concise in that short episode when addressing the C96 as a military weapon in WW1. There is not much to say about the actual development as the gun was mostly done in private by the Fiderels, so no great records there. It sold mostly to civilians before the war, so not much to say there. The big story is really China's love affair with it, and that is not really a WW1 story. So, what we really will want is not a Primer Revisit, but whatever Othais will call his complete histories of guns from start to finish. Fingers crossed, the C96 will be one of the first of that!
Thank you. I have been waiting for this episode.
Who needs sleep when others and the gang drop a new episode
"Aimons l'oignon frit à l'huile,
Aimons l'oignon car il est bon,
Aimons l'oignon frit à l'huile,
Aimons l'oignon, aimons l'oignon"
Au pas, camarade!
Chanson d'oignon... Vous-êtes un Grognard?
Le boudin c'est meilleur
Because of the French ration tradition all the way from the Napoleonic era!
I had to look this up. I did not know about the onion thing in French rations! Thanks for sharing.
Brilliantly done, as always. Thanks guys!
This is my type of re-run. As always, great material and presentation. Of the carbines available to the Triple Entente, I would take the Berthier hands down over the others for fighting within a trench, despite its 3 rounds. Maneuvering with just about any other standard issue full power firearm in a trench would be a disaster waiting to happen IMHO. As for recoil, I've never heard anyone complain of recoil in combat.....now on the range that is of course another matter.
A sore shoulder is of little concern when the guy next to you just got wasted and there are incoming enemies approaching you at alarming speed. Far more noticeable at the range when your endorphin levels are closer to normal ranges.
Just bought one of these but have not received it yet. Surprised and pleased to find this one in my email this morning.
Love to watch these.. very well thought out and presented beautifully
Friends of C&Rsenal are friends of mine, thank you guys!
I love the * for the updated episode number. If you ever go back and redo the SMLE Episode though you'll need to call it Episode Mk3***
27:50 "Milled Chilledlid brass", why, that seems excessive?
A mark of good content is always re-watchability. This is probably my third time through this one...
41:27 that was smooth as hell from both of you
It's fun hanging with you folks.
Chassepot to FAMAS mark at 18:00
I really enjoy the exchange between you two.
I feel like you are in my garage with me.
Thanks.
D
good episode guys, lookin forward to the next one
Another great production
I hope you plan to do a mas 36 episode one day!
Thank you to all that contribute to this channel.If you have merchandise I will buy and advertise. Vive la France, vive la guerre, vive la sacr`e mercenaire
Interesting parallel that the secondary rifle became the main one just like the secondary Heavy MG from Hotchkiss overtook the Saint Étienne 1907 MG
Even with the mas 36
24:44 OG Garand "ping"
Mae's grey streaks: I dig it!
as always outstanding video, you guys rock
12:40 Going from one round to three is a 200% increase, not 300%. Now you have to do a 02A** version :-p
One very rare situation where I say "episode re-upload? Right on!"....
I Iiked the discussion about the pros and cons of stripper clips, en blocs and magazines. Very enlightening!
French garand doesn't exist, it can't hurt you!
French garand: 41:28
G'day from the antipodes.
I'm digging that GT stripe in yer hair Mae. (Channelling Lily Munster?) Doesn't distract from the quality content though. As always excellent work, & kudos to the entire production crew.
Same doctrine for box mags today for the USA, there are no disposable mags
Sorry what was that monster at 31:58?
The Boirault Machine, 1914.
I’m one of those future people now! Feels good.
Good enough new info that I forgot it was a redo.
@C&Rsenal 26:50 To be honest I don't even understand what a musket is in American parlance. There's still a school of musketry and in the Lewis Gun episode the predecessor to that was the McClean Repeating Musket Machine Gun. None of that deals with anything resembling a musket by standard definitions. Just what about the McClean Machine Gun made it a musket?
The real question should be “would you take this into battle, if you’re French?”
They took cuirasses and swords into battle, they'll take a carbine too.
@@Edax_Royeaux My real point is, for a French soldier this is the best option.
@@DerekMitchell Lebel vs this? Lebel looks cool as fucc, but this is far more practical. Even with a 3 round clip. I know the French prefered the Lebel, but this gives you a higher overall rate of fire, and it's shorter.
I tried buying one at a local gunstore here in Las Vegas, the old gunstore owner had a lot of rarities on the wall that unfortunately weren’t for sale
This Berthier reminds me of Paciencia from Fallout New Vegas. Three shots of .308 out of a Post-Nuclear Desert Rat Mauser Clone or three shots of 8mm Lebel out of a WWI French Cavalry Rifle that is super comf until you fire it... Which would y’all prefer? Yeah one is from a video game but this is the internet so have at it kind lads and gentlewomen!
Is there enough give in the system to load a 3-rd clip, press down and over ride the top round to close on an empty chamber but full magazine? Sounds more interesting given the lack of a safety.
It doesn't seem to work with my 5 round berthier for what it's worth
Ok. Did y'all practice that clip routine? Smooth! 41:25
41:21 🙂 just like they drew it up
A far better remake than FF7.
Awesome catch at 41:20!
Great episode! What’s with the American Krag in a C stock behind you?
Great channel, will you ever cover the german selbstlader rifles? The Great War brought me here
I'm curious. When it comes to the en bloc system, are there any from the Great War period that eject the clip from the top similar to the M1 Garand?
There was a modification to a Mannlicher system, that was originally supposed to drop the clip from the bottom of the action. The modification added a floor plate and a spring and would eject the empty clip through the top of the action when opened on empty, inside of the original way (through the bottom when the last round was chambered).
31:54 What is that thing?
Looks like a prototype or concept for an early tank. A very early one mind you but all ideas have to start somewhere.
The 1914 French Boirault Machine, an early tank prototype as suspected.
Mae :War isn't a video game and you didn't have the choice , Berthier does a great job .
His carbine was adopted for Cavalry , Artilery and Police duty , think about it before judging
-When WW1 broke , the french army didn't bhad any choice to adopt the Berthier in great scale
It's always easy to judge in your armchair and american people made a lot of judgement about France and the french army .
To a ridiculous point ( we will not go back to the 2000's and the freedom fries ) .
Nice catch othais
They will add the Berthier in Hunt: Showdown soon :D
Question for anyone in the comments and C&Rsenal. If you were a nation in WW1 one with unlimited industrial capacity meaning you can choose anything, and one with the Industrial capacity of Italy or Austria what pistols, rifles, semi-auto rilfe/SLR, LMGs, and HMGs what would you choose?
Would you take this into battle is easy this time, yes but for the three shot clip. Bang, bang, bang and then having to reload means needing more men to keep up a constant barrage of small arms fire of course combining these Berthiers with Chauchats means having good support for your automatic riflemen as you assault machine gun emplacements.
The French WWI mid war small arms trinity, rifle grenade Lebels, Chauchats for covering fire, and Berthiers for pinpoint shots.
Ha! That pun rocks! Third time is the charm! Now I know where Dry Fire came from! ;-)
Somewhere in the distance, Gun Jesus can be heard giggling like a little girl. 🤪
As I was watching Othias describe the system for the Balle D and Balle M ammo sight alteration I actually said "Jesus H. Christ" outloud, ingenious stuff.
Ian makes the point that the M1 Carbine was a PDW not a front line battle rifle. All the WW1 roles assigned to the Berthier are those of a PDW. So the question becomes how is Berthier in comparison to a 1911 or a Luger. Maybe it would still fail, but comparing it to full sized battle rifles , when the French were not using it that way and had a battle rifle misses it point.
Not really. The Berthier shoots full on rifle ammunition and weighs almost 7 pounds. That's gonna rock you with recoil, have a lot of muzzle flash and wasted nergy, and still only carries 3 rounds. A purpose built PDW would shoot lower powered ammunition, have simpler sights, and ideally be even lighter. A bolt action 30 30 would work.
Please do a video about the Bethier rifle models : )
Bravo....
30:47 Ahh Ballz Deep in the a.m. nothing really beats that.
Will there be an episode on the Martini-Henry rifle? :D
Oh yes.
Brutal recoil on that puppy
Not my first choice in time of war, but if the only alternative is a Lebel then, yes, please, I'll have a Berthier.