New player onboarding is the most important aspect of these games if one is ever going to take off. Can be any variation of previous quakes, that aspect hardly matters. Getting people to enjoy the gameplay (probably single player of some sort) before letting them get destroyed is a step in the right direction.
You say live service doesn't cause negatives. It massively does. Things like player hosted servers are disincentivised. Modding and mapmaking are often either pushed to the side, or made internal, or massively deprecated because of the drip feed. Look at something like CS2 vs playing the previous games in that series, or Quake III. In the current game, you dial into the master server first, and unless you know what to click, now you're in matchmaking on official servers getting fed skins and a map rotation. In earlier games, you boot up, check server list, and yeah you could load up specific servers to play the competitive maplist in 5v5 or whatever, but you could also play something crazier. This has been pushed to the side for so long now that the community servers are hard to host and the browser runs independently of the game. There's less incentive to mod in player models and weapons due to the feed of skins and stuff. It enriches the developer at the expense of the expression of the community. Inb4 something like "yeah but the game is more successful." By what metric? It's not unplayably bad or anything, but it's successful on a metric of numbers going up(especially in developing markets, not so much NA), but it's successful in terms of milking players for the financial success of the developer. A game like Quake is made, finished, and put out. People buy a copy while the developer makes a sequel. "But if there's no dev who keeps the servers on?" You do. Most of the Quake/Quake-like games you play do not require the player to dial a master server, they just boot up and the game can scan for available community servers. It's a type of game that's actually entirely counter to the business model which you're suggesting. It's mutually exclusive. There *could* be third options by which devs give certain community servers keys to being official, or they're very active in currating, or something. There could be an iracing type subscription model, and that kind of thing is extremely distinct from the battle passes and other "hook the player" systems that have come since, but that's not what you suggested.
Well, I'm not a network specialist, but "Game can scan for available community servers" - wouldn't that require a "master server" that "listens" for ping send in from active servers and refers it to game client? I've learnt that from recent UT shutdown: had to add some community-sourced master servers in config file to actually see anything inside game's server browser.
No. The Exes for classic quake games can listen for servers. Far beyond that, even without formal 'server list' in game, you can still dial fan servers by just knowing where they're hosted. It's a completely different topography than you're suggesting. If there was a master for old ID games they would have been shut down a thousand times over by now. Quakeworld doesn't just "go down." A 'master server' is like the Matchmaking Server for Halo 3. It's a computer which is running at Microsoft, listening for players/servers, and organizing games. It's something that's needed for games with MM, but it shouldn't be a bottleneck for community servers. What you're thinking of is something like CS2 or whatever where the community servers are auth'd by a key to go on the public list, or worse yet, you're thinking of some other game's topography which I'm not familiar with in which the list is generated by a master server. In both of these situations, there's a direct or indirect master server. What I advocate for is not having a master server which creates the list, or having a master -> matchmaking as the only/default mode of play. It needs to be the freeform/old system, not the locked down new system. The 'middle ground' would sort of be like the CS2 system, where you need to put in a player's validation key to get a server listed. This would still allow for players to host their own servers and their own maps and stuff, but it allows the developer to just axe the whole thing/most of it. I suppose that so long as there's private server options that exist outside of the developer(IE dedicated server EXE), you could still have something like the web browser-based doom and quake server lists, though.
The problem with community servers is mainly the security and the ability for cheat developers to have a sandbox (look valorant there are barely any cheaters because of kernel anti cheat and no community server/LAN Client)
@@igov1152 Uhhhhh... Yeah? Here's the thing, you're acting like a master server system that operates like CS or Val is ideal or in some way core to making Quake the game it is. It isn't. Quake has always been its strongest as a grassroots game. Community servers largely solve the cheating problem by making there nothing to cheat for(no one cares enough to cheat if there isn't status to cheat for in random online matches), and in situations where players might be cheating, there's an admin on. No one gets kicked during a game of Valorant by the server admin either, yet this is always overlooked, if a player is hacking, they just have to suffer until the anticheat flags the guy or he does a flagrant spinbot and gets removed. Maybe he can be votekicked but a lot of games don't have that. Compare that to a team of admins who actually game on the server, know about the game, know the regulars, and can view the demos to check suspicious players as soon as weird shit starts happening. Add in the fact that there's not really much reason to hack when there's no pressure and most people are just doing a CTF for fun or something, this solves the cheating problem. People used to just think cheating was funny most of the time while playing big games of unranked. Seriously, outside of tournament play, how much cheating was going on in average games of Quake Live, Reflex, Quake III, or the older games? I'm not saying it was none, there were still issues with cheating, I'm not trying to discount that, but was it on the level of CS2's launch, or CoD games, or even Valorant(which does have a cheating problem, just miniscule in comparisson with its tac shooter competitors)? Not even close.
I feel like without an sbmm mode new players would almost certainly end up being squashed by veterans and turned off of the game entirely though… I don’t really know how you fix that problem and keep new players long enough for them to actually get good without a mode that directs them to matches with others of their skill level Personally I don’t think matchmaking and live service stuff is incompatible with community servers and custom maps, I think TF2 shows how both can co-exist (and even feed into each other with community maps and modes and items becoming part of the matchmaking mode and the map stamp system supporting that)
I would love it if the new quake had a rogue-like mode for single player to increase replayability. Something like "Enter the Gungeon" with 6 layers that you have to go through to get some sort of cosmetic reward at the end.
Maybe I'm in the wrong audience for these type of games but I'd love a campaign that levarages all the stuff that makes quake so much fun to play. The deep movement, snappy arcady controls, great gunplay and so forth. I would love more casual game modes too, though that is less important to me then a cool dark sci-fi (or better yet something more akin to the atmossphere in quake 1) storymode with good level design. I still come back to quake 1 for it's singleplayer and it's always a blast. I'm fairly certain that's not *really* what people care about but I'd love for the devs to put a lot of love into the singleplayer content, maybe even do some co-op gamemodes like horde mode or something. Shooting stuff in quake just feels like crack, and I'd love for quake 6 to take much further advantage of that c:
08:00 - For me, an incidentally interesting approach that comes to mind, is the Quake 3 mod Generations Arena. Where, depending of what idSoftware game archetype you're playing as, you're using a set of weapons based on that character's title setting. So what's interesting in this concept? Welp, as the mod reveals each weapon roster set has their own quirks, strengths, and weaknesses. Quake 1 weapons have the better average firerate, but their shotguns are comparatively weaker against other series' shotguns, and their automatic weapons are projectile based(needing to target lead), Wolfenstein 3D weapons have the advantage of alot of them being a hitscan weapon, but comes with the disadvantage of having lesser performing lower-tier weapons, putting weapon hunting a top priority. Classic Doom has higher power SSG and RL, but SSG has the worse firerate of all shotgun archetypes, and Doom RL has the slowest rocket flight speed. Quake II has most damaging "sniper" weapon(QII railgun is BEEF), Quake 3 plasmagun is the best performing projectile weapon(compare to the similar weapon types on other games), etc...so you get the idea. The player gets to have choices on their preferred weapon sets, but they cannot game the loadout meta by simply opting to get the most synergistic and the best performing weapons. Instead, they have to decide and consider which weapon set they would run with, perks, warts and all.
yeah you get more variety & reasonably achieve balance like this, also "what you see is what you fight" is way more appealing to the normal person compared to a "heh you better spend time figuring out how this particular guy in the lobby is built" thing with random param changes
As a quake veteran who started with the original, and played everyone competitively including champions; the reason why Quake has no players IS THE MOVEMENT. The movement caters to a very small group of people and the only way you're getting people to stick around is if you remove the bunny hops. Same problem with UT. UT 99 had no movement techs, and UT 99 is the one that still has the most players. The community can't agree; they always say they want more movement, but then the movement is what drives the players away. This is why the UT reboot was cancelled. The movement techs also affect weapon balance; and the double jump is why the rockets suck in UT 2k; this made the game even more shock rifle intensive. You can actually see this issue in the new Doom games. Doom 2016 was pretty grounded, Doom Eternal is ridiculously airborn with nuts movement. It's the reason people who prefer 2016 prefer 2016, and also the reason Doom TDA is going back to a grounded approach. Advanced movements are always fun for the people that master them, but always reduce the amount of people who are going to stick around to master them; and the differential between a new player and someone that's mastered just the movement is always too large for either one of them to have fun. Matter of fact; every game that has tons of players has a relatively simplistic movement style. Nobody plays Titan Fall 1/2, but they do play apex.... Right? So basically people are cool with running, jumping, edge climbing, and sliding, and anything beyond that is too much for people. Variable speed circle strafe jumping is just terrible for games, and trust me dog; there still isn't anyone faster than me in Quake 3. I have a legendary huck, I helped popularize the double beat using defrag in CPM_Velocity, trust me, I'm not saying this shit because I can't do it, I'm saying it, because even some of y'all still can't do it as well as me. Highlighting the problem.
Hmm sounds like you got bored and tired of quake and now you want a different game,that plays more like apex/COD. Here is an idea,you can play apex and cod right now or any other number of fast TTK +slow movement casual shooters,there is literaly no shortage of those to choose from. Here is another idea,just because you got sick of quake(doing speed runs or smh?)doesnt mean we all got sick of quake. I would rather play quake with it's movement and gunplay vs bots and mby 1 dude online ,than play fortnite and cod with millions of people online ,if quake 6 is to be worth a shit in my book,it has to be quake ,that means 99% identical to Q3 especially movement wise(tbh it doesnt really have to be 99% identical,if they decide to make the game even faster and harder,I would be ok with that,but lets be real if they change something,it would be to dumb down/consolify the game). There is only one good dueling 1v1 shooter that's worth a mention today and that's still quake,1v1 skill based games will never be mainstream with today's snow flake generation and "I am a chill dad trying to chill after work ,how dare people sweat at video games instead of mindlessly chillin" kind of players. The worst possible thing quake can do is to try to be mainstream, if it does try to be mainstream ,it will without a doubt have more players,but it wont be quake anymore just another COD clone.pissing on the legacy of a once great series by naming itself something it's not(no different than EA's sw battlefront for example).
doom eternal is widely regarded as being a direct upgrade over 2016, titanfall is fondly remembered and everyone wants it to come back with a 3rd game, and mainstream games in general are becoming more fast paced because the cod era has been over for a decade now
I think the biggest issue is people don't practice, and don't want to practice. They are there to load up a game and play. There needs to be opportunities for players to practice the movement in match. An unranked Battle Royale inspired mode would help alot. Not literally Battle Royale but a huge map with scattered Quake map style areas with powerups and weapons gives people a chance to practice movement getting between locations and the "dungeons" to put it into action.
Also I much prefer 2016 over eternal but it isn't the movement. It's the storytelling and less gamified aesthetic. I don't care about ancient gods creating demons and doomguy working for some tall alien dude and blah blah blah. I want Doomguy to be angry someone opened the wrong portal and having to clean up their mess. By the same token I want Doomguy to grab a gun off the corpse of a dude, or sever an arm of a dead scientist to open a biolock, I don't want a green light with a floating spinny shotgun in it, or the last demon of a group to be killed and the key I need is floating where I sent it back to hell.
I feel like microtransactions and industry's focus on "live-service games" is one of the reasons why support for community servers stopped being a feature: you can't push microtransactions and FOMO-bs on to player who chills on some private server. In a sense community servers would be a competitor to "company" server, and that kinda goes against the idea of live-service: people depend on a developer, and developer is in full control over the content that's pushed out and the game's availability (OW and the crew are perfect examples for that argument). Just think about it: why would I buy some cosmetics pack for 10 w/e money if I can go over some PServer with custom skins/maps/weapons and w/e else. Loadouts? Meh, it's only sounds good on paper. But just as quake's weapons "meta" boiled down to RG-RL-LG, so will loadouts. And you'll end up having people playing pick-a-card game to counter what opponent have, rather than playing a shooter part, especially if players are allowed to change not only loadout but it's contents mid-game. Besides, you said that in team games engaging opponent is a gamble since you lack info about what he has or hasn't in terms of armor/health/weapons - loadouts do the same, but in every game type, even duels. As for PUps in team games - it's not really a design issue, rather than skill: in teams you could divide PUps spawnpoints between teammates, essentially cutting the rotation routes in half. I've briefly watched part of some tdm 4v4 tournament game in Q:L where 2 people from one of the teams would guard quad spawnpoint and then letting top fragger pick it up. There's also an in-team communication issue and your example with SH: teammates don't know status of one another - but it's not a problem for developer to solve, really, but rather players themselves. Developer only has to provide tools for players that let them communicate, nothing more.
I feel like another good change would be smaller max players with the exception of custom games maybe around 8 or so. A big issue older quake titles have were there are servers full of people on the smallest possible maps. I enjoy some chaos but i also want to be able to spawn in and not instantly get nuked by 5 guys.
With regards to stack management in team modes I feel like a perfectly valid option would be just making the pickups per-player rather than limited stock due to someone picking up the items, you are forced to manage these yourself. Leave major powerups like quad damage as a central control point that everyone will want to fight over and then break up each pick up into tiers, where they are randomized for each player, but have fixed locations. Lets say a map is split into 3 layers vertically with a center pit that holds the power up of that map. With each layer vertically generally being a better position, you could make it so the highest layer has tier 3 items, this'll be your ammo, basic health, armor shards and more situational weapons like the GL or SG. the middle layer holding tier 2 items, these will be your yellow armors, larger health items, and your main weapons like RL and LG. the bottom being the least favorable in terms of position holds your tier 1 items, like your red armor, mega health etc. So while you are spawning in and wanting to be well equipped, you'll make your way rotating through each level before going into a fight, or if your team is losing in a close game, you can play safe staying with weak utility staying in the upper layers or try to "clutch up" quickly for your team, grabbing the bare minimum and taking the risk by jumping straight into the middle or bottom level of the map. Move this kind of system onto a more complex map rather than just a pit where each area has a "tier" assigned and do that per player so everyone has items in different locations and it'll force rotations as people try to build up their stack while some might guard an area, as though they don't know what exactly spawns there for their opponent, they'll know it's good enough to want to keep them off it. Plus it'll force people to develop different routes as one match they might have a RL in that spawn and the next match it's just a +70 health making that pickup less of a priority.
This all sounds good to me although I think it's worth mentioning that we did have an inventory system in Quake 2, I'm not sure how relevant that was to the multiplayer but it's pretty awesome in singleplayer maps and I'd love to see the system return. One thing for the loadouts they could implement the weapons from the expansion packs like the multi rocket launcher, the mine launcher, ion ripper, phalanx, tesla mine and etc.
here's a suggestion for pickup's problem: 1. what if after picking up an object you claim it for your team, and for the next 20-30 seconds only your team could pick it up, and it would only dispawn individually so you pick up armour, now not only you have it, but also people around you can pick it up, they still have to walk over it, and the window for that could be adjusted to anywhere from 30 to 5 seconds, 2. after picking up a powerup, it will still stand there for other players, aftre 2 players pick it up it will be emptied and you'll need to wait untill it respawns. Basically 2 pickups in 1 spot.
the new Diabotical Rogue does the armor distribution to the team. its pretty slick. the mega is a spot you have to capture. it captures faster the more teamates you have on it. and then when you capture it the whole team gets it.
No. Also.. No. Just need a remastered q3 with shinny new GFX that we will all instantly turn down (but will attract new players to begin with) something similar to how they re-released q1 and q2 at Quakecon a couple of years ago. No champions that do different things so there is no meta, everyone starts the same fights it out based on skill. I wouldnt go classifying any of the weapons as meta, thats just weird, there are more powerful weapons, sure, but other weapons have their place and all can be used to great levels Wall jumping isnt really required, thats what the plasma gun is for. Loadouts could potentially unbalance the game and what makes this game great is the balance, the only thing that can beat you is a person who has access to the exact same things as you have. Depending on your mode, powerups just need to be placed somewhere that is equally accessible from different spawn points. If game mode is duel, have only 2 spawn points for each players very first spawn, equal distance away from both players, the player that gets there first gets the power up, after that spawns can be randomised to different map locations. Guess you could throw a campaign in there for those that like SP and new players, maybe some will come to MP afterwards. Some multiplayer modes with bots would be good. If the mode is CA throw a couple of variably skilled bots on either team to balance the game out and give the new players an opportunity to learn the game. Quake live also had skill tiers for MP, you would only face players in your tier you could work your way up from t1 to t5, this worked really well but disappeared most likely due to falling numbers and quake moving to steam.
Metas exist in literally every game. There is no avoiding that. A meta is an optimal strategy and Quake has a meta that has been fairly consistent throughout most titles, which separates it from other games. Quakes balancing also isn’t amazing and there have been games where the balancing is poor. Quake 1 is an excellent example and champions probably isn’t amazing either. Even the idea of balance in terms of access to items isn’t perfect as there are plenty of maps where certain spawns give better access to stack and arsenal. Balancing is an inherent part of game design. Quakes design philosophy has made great strides in having elements in the game to make the “most balanced” experience possible such as (relatively) even access to things on a map and no differences in a players potential arsenal in a match but I don’t think this serves to its benefit. I would argue this is something that makes the game fairly stale and really means that maps and game modes are the only thing that can make the playing experience “unique.” If you were to take this balanced philosophy to its extreme you would end up making a fairly boring game. Like the most balanced quake map would be one that’s mirrored and gives players to the exact same stack round start. The map would also feature minimal or no difference in high ground and would play almost like amphi. That’s boring. Some of the best quake maps are very asymmetrical. Imbalance is good to some degree and makes a game more compelling when done right. Almost every other popular shooter and competitive game features forms of what I would term “tactical player choice” that create dynamics in a match that are unique to a player and allow room for multiple optimal forms of play or metas. Fighting games are a lovely example of this with characters having access to entirely different moves to each other, where even walk speeds on a character can be different. The tactical choice is which character you pick. Despite this inherent imbalance between characters, these games are considered incredibly competitive. Matchups invite improvisations and adaptations, with there being infinitely more complexities to the game. This gives it way more depth. Keeping quake the way it’s always been is frankly boring as the game has already been solved. Adding just a little bit more to the game would make it infinitely more interesting while clearly still maintaining a competitive experience. Also to touch on movement, plasma climbs see little to no use in an average match and would be nowhere near as fluid as wall jumping. Plasma climbing would still maintain most of its use cases with a wall jump as wall jumps are more used for cover horizontal distance than vertical which contrast the wall climbs vertical gain.
here's what i say to the issue with teams and resource control: if someone on a team gets a pickup, that pickup spawner is "claimed" for a short duration- this duration would be the equivalent to respawn time. when a player touches a pickup spawner that has been claimed, they get that weapon, and that specific cannot get anything from that spawner until the moment it becomes unclaimed. this would allow players to take their time getting to a pickup, as opposed to players from bunching up around a single item before claiming it.
If the Shotgun isn't good enough to be part of the Meta and the Grenade Launcher always gets shafted, I propose the Unreal Tournament Flak Cannon as an alternative, it does both really well.
You should check out Xonotic. Its my favorite arena fps. It has air strafing and strafe jumping, a guided rocket whose alt fire DOES let you remotely detonate it. The game is extremely customizeable too. While not enabled by default there exists modifiers to implement a walljump and/or a dodge. Its free and open source and damn well made for coming out of the FOSS community. The game has tremendous potential and is worth trying out. Its like the best quake movement with weapons more akin to unreal tournament and is as moddable as counter strike. You cant go wrong.
@@mmmcola6067 A solid game for sure. I think one of the reasons Xonotic does not have that wall jump/kick on by default is because the Blaster weapon has large knockback and can be used not just to bully people but for movement too. Blastering a wall can net you crazy speed but its not quite a wall kick. The wall kick feels like a clean and natural extension of the Quake movement imo. It would still work in Xonotic but the blaster would be preferable most of the time while the wall kick could make for more wild movement during firefights. I would honestly love to see either game take off. However I think Warfork lacks a unique identity and I love the weapons of Xonotic more. That alt-fire really expands your options and raises the skill ceiling of gunplay. GL can be explode on impact or if youre around a corner from an enemy, you can alt-fire and the nade will bounce once and explode 1.5s afterwards. Air control of rockets with remote detonation. the fishslap (a melee attack) with the shotgun. The crylink is a sort of plasma shotgun that when fire is released the plasma balls that were fired in a spread come to a single point and bounce once off a surface. It's alt-fire is a single shot of plasma that implodes, pulling people towards it. Its a good weapon to slow people down or speed your ass up by alt-firing at the ground and using that implosing to pull you forward. or to pull you up a wall if youre fast enough when you just barely miss a jump. or want to climb a wall you cant jump and you dont wanna blaster jump or rocket jump. Thanks for reading yet another wall of text (hopefully). I am very passionate about these kinds of games and love esports.
The only disadvantage to CPMA-type movement is that the air control movement will have to be anisotropic. But I'd say fuck isotropy, I just wanna go fast anyway
F*ck live services. I'll stick to quake live and modded UT4 if this ends up being a live service. I want my own servers, open free mod support, NO CASH SHOP OR MONETIZATION, etc. I don't care if it's the way the industry is moving. It's a crock of sh:+, and I'm not buying it. Neither should anyone else.
One thing about the load out suggestion is that fighting for weapons and routing to them especially at match start is in the DNA of quake, that said I'm not opposed to it, Champions already introduced the "meta" even more so with class abilities. Out of the 2 I'd say load outs are less game changing
Pretty sure the suggestion was not to drop weapon pickups but to have customizable weapons. So basically, I still only get the rocket launcher by picking it up on the map. But you and I might have different rocket launchers. Mine doesn't do as much self damage so I can rocket jump more whereas yours has rockets that can be exploded in midair with right click.
Always love these kind of videos! For the weapon variant idea; maybe it would be a good idea to consolidate most of the weapons into 3-4 primary types and have variations from those? Like Rocket, LG, Rail could become (better) grenade launcher, machine gun, rail v2 (lol). So like 3 primary pickup weapons and maybe 1-2 starting weapons (maybe shotgun + like and smg or something idk). I feel like this would allow a lot more room for variety (because you can re-use other weapons like a buffed MG vs LG), while simplifying control schemes for players and making it a bit easier to understand. Anyways, here's hoping to an arena game that catches on! I also think focusing mostly/entirely on team modes would be wise. It's just very hard to have a game that works for both 1v1 and XvX, especially with modern competition. A lot of the resource control problems could be alleviated if you only had to design for 3v3 or higher and not have to worry about 1v1 implications (as much)
#2 - Loadouts for weapons being different upon pick up could be interesting, even though it'd be extremely divisive. Some ideas off the top of my head would be a railgun that functioned like the Unreal Tournament shock rifle. Or a rocket launcher that can't push others except yourself, but has a greater push for rocket jumps. As much as I'd genuinely prefer the arsenal to be the same, at this point I'd rather have more people playing Quake, or arena FPS as a whole. (Also I miss UT!) If nothing else, at least having more variations of rockets, LG, rails, plasma/nails, etc. could give some strategic depth if they're tuned decently enough. In theory, maybe even counterplaying based on the player would have more incentive if one's dueling another and thinks they have a shock rifle or something. Thus you'd want to deny rails more than if they had base rail. Further, if a weapon variant is too overtuned in a competitive environment, the devs could just disable them. Or don't let them into competitive until a thorough testing period on a public test environment or what have you. #4 - If item sharing were to be a thing, I think it'd have to be a percentage of the benefit to mitigate some of the snowballing problem. So you'd gain 50 instead of 100 if you receive the shared stack. Alternatively, give 75 for the one who took it, 50 for anyone near enough to take a share, but 100 if the one who took it has no one to share with. It'd be really bad in the hands of a full, organized party matching together... which already happens anyways in every game. Another alternative idea would be that someone picks up megahealth, and it has to respawn for the opposing team and the one who picked it up. Anyone who picks it up thereafter on the receiver's team would have a 5 or 10 second window to run over and take it for less benefit, or a rapidly decaying benefit. #5 and partially #1 - Thorough tutorials of how the movement works I think would help wonders. I learned strafejumping after QC, then CPMA and Source / Half-Life 1 thereafter because it's just to addicting. But I struggled to understand how Live was trying to explain it. It took me looking at dozens of videos and practicing in a defrag client with the CGaz HUD for me to get a genuine feel and understanding of what I'm doing wrong versus what I'm doing right. The point being that having some strong visual explanation would work wonders for onboarding. It gets frustrating to not fully understand what you're doing wrong, but also have someone else doing laps around you and you're not sure how they're going "hackusation" proportions of fast. Lastly, as much as I'm loathe to say it, I think finding a possible way to let in console players might be needed to give a new Quake some legs for the casual audience. Maybe limit it to gyro aim controllers and keyboard and mouse for consoles? I don't know. All I know is I don't want an aim assist problem. Movement might be possible on controller, or so I've heard with Titanfall 2, but aiming would be a drastically different problem to solve for that. Good video, though! It's a discussion worth having, whether Quake 6 exists or not. It's about deriving from Quake mechanics, but arena FPS as a whole could really use _something_.
@@grzyruth9205 Again, I'm just looking at how their Indiana Jones game would turn up before I pass judgement. If anything, they could do well with level design and such, as they did swell enough on their map packs for the first two Quake enhancements.
I don't play quake, so this is just an outsider perspective: Maybe instead of giving pickups to everyone within a radius, you just have the pickups on a cooldown per person. If someone gets a pickup, the pickup goes on cooldown for them, but you can still pick it up. Obviously you wouldn't have this system and use the current system for quad damage and the like. There's still resource management, and you also help prevent snowballing from the 1 player monopolizing ALL of the important resources. For quad damage, you're still gonna have to contest it.
One thing you could do to solve items in team gamemodes is that when one player picks up an item they "capture" that item spawn until it respawns, and any other teammates who pick that item up gets the next tier down from it. So large to medium to small HP/armour, and weapons either can only drop ammo until respawn makes the item neutral. It's still important to control items and it still rewards players for being able to grab the item first, but also mitigates the sinarios where team mates are fighting each other for the chance to be the power player.
Why people wait for a company(bethesda) that never understood the franchises it bought to do something not dissapointing. We need to make our own Quake+UT.
Bro at 6:18 I thought you were going to say ADS based off of the gameplay footage, and I would have been so pissed. I generally agree with the video, pretty good ideas.
Funny too since the game technically already has ads with the zoom function, which serves the basic function of adsing while also being objectively better since you don’t have a weapons scope obstructing parts of your view.
q4 is definitely jank, but i think crouch sliding should stay, i love how its implemented in quake champions, one of the most satisfying movement styles in any game imo. it strikes a good balance between the maneuverability of cpma and the speed of strafe jumping while adding a bit more depth through needing to time your crouches, and knowing when to slide vs strafejump. dont get me wrong i love cpma movement, but i think its quite easy and has the lowest skill entry & ceiling of all the styles. crouch sliding would fill in that higher tier of movement thats a bit more difficult to learn, but very rewarding to master i like your loadout idea, and think you can even expand upon it by including movement in there. you could choose different movement styles with different variants that affect air/strafe/slide acceleration and ups cap. also, the tribolt is so misunderstood, i love it :( it definitely shines in duel, and gets kinda useless in bigger modes but once u learn how to use it right its great. i love that it rewards you for positioning & map knowledge with its limited range, and rewards timing/prediction with its delayed burst. pretty good at area denial & flushing enemies out from behind a corner too just to keep em at bay or prevent a trap.
i honestly love a lot of the ideas listed here! not only would the devs be trying something new but it would give the players A LOT OF VARIETY! I have a couple of ideas as well for what I would want a new quake to have, one of them adds on to an idea said in this video: 1. I would like to add on to this "loadout system"! its a REALLY good idea, but for me its missing a little something. i thought about it for a while and realized "why not let players have customizable passive movement options in their loadout?" these options for example will use the champions passives from QC. you would be limited to about 2-3 "passive's" that can change how you can move on the map all together. say for like a couple of examples you can combine anarki's bunny hop with clutch's air dodge, or sorlags method of moving around combined with the QC crouch slide! it could allow not only for greater customability but also allow for WAY more skill expression! 2. Duels should not be the only competitive game modes to choose from. I would love for the new quake to not only have duels but also have modes like CTF, Freeze tag, and most importantly CLAN ARENA in their competitive playlist. It would really give the players a LOT MORE INCENTIVE to play competitive outside of duels. 3. this one is a disagreement. I think having the game be live service would give the game more negatives than benefits, I've played quite a few live service games and it seems that the only game that really gets the "live service part" is sadly fortnite. 4. This is something that I am NOT hoping for in the next quake game (this is the last one). Skill based matchmaking, we all know it and we all absolutely hate it if its used in a casual setting. If they decide to put casual SBMM into the new quake the game would suffer MASSIVELY. especially since if I were to play casual quake with SBMM I wouldn't think it was quake anymore, in fact I would compare the matchmaking to something like COD modern warfare 2 2022. it wouldn't be fun. it just wouldnt.
Regarding the sharing hp / armor in team games. What if teammates get a % of the armor/hp based on distance from you or some other metric? This could even be activated or adjusted through class or loadout based. Might not be a default option in games but just a feature or gamemode based. I think the best direction for them to have gone was to continue developing and improving QuakeLive like Valve does with CS, have their modern live service style QC game and their single player series (Which may or may not be interconnected with their single player lineage.) The key to this would be improving their UI and overall platform as QC especially has the worst possible interface and features for stats, multiplayer, matchmaking, chat, speccing, recording and streaming. Key features for multiplayer outside of the game itself. How they went so far back from QL (which is still fairly basic by today's standards) is beyond me.
Strafe jumping vs bunny h comes back with every new quake game annoucement. Imo, strafe jumping (and q3 vanilla movement, whatever you call it) brings more balance to the game. The more speed you gain, the more predictible you become (with more vulnerability to rockets). Bunny h and air control makes you hardly predictible, giving a huge advantage to speed. Considering air control/bunny h is harder to master than strafe jumping, the gap between new and veteran player will be greater.
I think some positive things quake 6 could implement for newcomers could be a weapon shuffling system in casual modes (so good players can’t camp good weapons from them). Perhaps advanced movement could be tied to equip-able items, that way the player makes an active choice and would understand their movement toolkit better. Like having b-hopping or air control being two different items, and having a max capacity so players can’t do everything. Like you could take reduced rocket jump damage and air control, but it would lock you out of having a grappling hook of something. Perhaps some would take up two slots at once. More causal modes, ones where balance is not the priority. Players need to be able to feel good playing a game and I wish quake had more dumb fun modes.
Mainly, it shouldn't have active/passive abilities like in QC, as those are real burden. And as for netcode - it should finally work, again not like in QC.
the hardest and least intuitive part about Quake movement is the initial circle strafe jump to gain speed. Diabotical solved this as well with the boost button. crazy how many things Diabotical got right..
I really like the weapon loadout idea as for the armor pick ups I'm not sure maybe take them out all together and replace it by something that doesn't influence the balance as bad in a team not sure what. Also all the games closest to quake that progressed out of dueling feature objectives tf2 etc and unreal had alot of CTF and other modes
In my opinion they should just copy QuakeWorld TDM item balancing and timing to make TDM fun again. In QW TDM players communicate and play together in a team to fight for ressources and share them to maximize map control. I think QL item timings are too complicated and weapons are too weak and not much fun to use. Also nobody wants to play large TDM with more than 4 players on each team. With so many players in such a fast game it's extremely hard to communicate with teammates and playing coordinated together... People who just want to play solo in a team setting can gladly go play Clan Arena...
you mention the load out system and mods to the weapons , that would be interesting. It would be new to the game for sure. hopefully the game can bring newer players to this one. :)
I feel like a mixture of quake 1-3 thr vibe and themes of 1 because let's be honest it has a better vibe then 2 and they could make it a cosmic horror mixing 1 and 2 and have the multiplayer of 3 I think a single player and a campaign would be perfect because that's how the first 2 were both campaigns were good and fun and the multiplayer is of course iconic and needed
I hope that IF they ever make a Quake 6, i wish it would be a reboot of Quake 1, even if quake 2 is amazing, i don't want the strogg damnit! Even if i technically wouldn't be able to play it cause of a weak PC. It simply existing would be enough to make me happy!
I think Quake 6 should bring back story mode. And for those who're broke between Quake 1 Lovecraftian lore, Quake 2 and 4 Stroggos lore continuation, and just anything new that could fit right in, it could have multiple characters having their own story mode, for example Visor having his backstory as a Strogg and how he got here, Klesh being a... Chitnid, Phobos having a Doom story side/mini lore before he got pulled in by the Vadrigar, and as you've said, the sky is the limit. I think we're downplaying Quake by only letting Doom and Wolfenstein having story modes.
You have to pick either "I want bhopping and rocket jumping" or "I want a game with lower skill floor that beginners can pick up", you can't have both. Those are mechanics that are 100% essential, but they need tens of hours for them to "click" and hundreds more for you to get good at them. Holding W in a game with powerful bhopping is almost never the correct thing to do, other players will fly around at 3x your running speed. It's a non-starter.
Quake has always been a benchmark for graphics and fast-paced action. Quake 6 is intended to be a single-player sci-fi horror game. Distressing and terrifying. You can make a multiplayer side game out of it if you want. There is a deep storyline to make a great game.
Honestly, if the game has CPMA style movement, I'd buy the battlepass, open the lootboxes, and subscribe to premium or whatever is the monetization of choice these days... TF2 style loadouts would be a fun addition for sure and utility items as well. You could even have some movement-related items too - grapple hook anyone? The amazing movement is definitely the biggest distinguishing factor of Quake to most modern games. As for pickups, I think it depends a bit on the gamemode. I think in CTF it adds a nice bit of strategy / team play of timing the pickups and giving them to the flag carrier (or vice versa, throwing the flag to someone who is stacked). But yeah in TDM with randoms its kind of just annoying. I think the biggest thing the game needs is a robust ranked mode consisting of three game modes with various player counts. I'm thinking 1v1, 3v3 and 5v5. One of the team-modes can be round based and the other not. Classically, CTF and CA would fit best but I'm open to new game modes. Ultimately, most people prefer team modes so they can't be secondary to duel.
As a multiplayer game Quake Champions made it well but its not friendly for new players and that is the biggest problem, the lack of players. Maybe Quake 6 must be a Single Player experience exploiting all mechanics, movement and use of weapons. Like Doom Eternal but keeping the essence of Quake (movement and arsenal) the Champions roster to add a layer of replayability and enemies with random patterns and weak points. The campaing, semi- open world. Lot of arenas interconnected with slipgates like a metroidvania game.
It's slightly better than the grenade launcher when it comes to offense, and a little worse when used for defensive area denial. You get used to it, though. I think it's a good weapon with a good design.
@@nishantghorpade4820 QuakeWorld Grenadelauncher was better and more fun. Tribolt is super situational and way too hard to use to be worth it most of the time.
Doom 2016 online multiplayer maps are more like a new quake game as the devs just turned the new doom game as a quake arena style shooter but without the quake skin. The only difference is in the movement and speed its also more like a unreal tournament game deathmatch mode game as well
these are all great ideas. the only ones i'm sketchy about is the one that you mentioned was sketchy. like the idea is cool but implementation is tricky but loadouts are dogshit and i prefer straife jumping to bhopping no contest.
I agreed with some of your points, but I HAVE to interrupt the “battle pass” conversation for market sustainability reasons, because if you put a battlepass in Quake 6 but get the finer details of its implementation wrong, you can kill the game as early as day one. Fortnite’s battle pass works off FOMO; you can play it to get some items for this season, but it’ll go away within a time when a new season rolls out, so you have to HURRY UP and clock a certain number of hours into the game if you want a cosmetic or risk losing access to it potentially forever. This was unique and interesting when Fortnite first came out because it created the possibility of “rare” and “unique” items without the need to have trading or gambling. However, problems arise when EVERY game on the market is like this. Gamers may have many games they are interested in playing but only so many hours of their day. Games with a FOMO-style battle pass end up competing with each other for player hours because players need to decide which game they are gonna spend the majority of their time grinding to maximize the value they get out of the battlepass (they don’t want to spend money on one hoping to get some items and then lose the items forever because they literally didn’t have the time to play the game). We saw COD copy this battlepass style, then other games copied it, and over time so many games copied it that a lot of them actually died because it was their sole form of monetization and no one was gonna make FOMO game #69 their new full time gamer job to get ROI on the battle pass when they had battle passes for other games that they had already turned into jobs. The market is burnt out on this monetization, and if Quake 6 tries to do it exactly the same way as Fortnite, it’ll be guaranteed dead on arrival, see ya suckers, time to wait for Quake 7. Very few people are gonna be willing to pay for the battle passes AND make Quake their full time job to harvest that ROI before the next pass comes out. There is good news: you can keep the battlepass system but remove the FOMO by making them stay and accumulate forever. Helldivers 2 does this by calling them “Warbonds”, never removing them, and by allowing the player to progress them through a generic currency called “Medals” that they earn upon mission completion. Because the medals can be spent anywhere on demand, players can simply play the game and don’t even have to decide which warbond they are progressing until they get to the spending screen. Deep Rock Galactic is another example of battle passes done right. In the past, when they introduced a new battlepass and shelved the old one, they put the items into a loot pool for in-game crates. This meant that when a pass expires. None of the items go away, you just unlock them in a different and unpredictable order. Thats the end of my point about battle passes. As for the game itself, I think it needs a big, large-scale coop PVE mode. There are many, many good coop PVE games coming out that are drawing a lot of attention because the market has had a drought of casual multiplayer experiences in the name of “competitive this, competitive that”. You could have a PVE mode and put all kinds of crazy weapons and abilities that would never be balanced in PVP in that mode, and I think you would make a lot of players happy and draw a new audience to quake without disturbing the PVP guys. My favorite memories of games like Doom come from joining wacky 64 player coop servers on Zandronum and engaging in massive shenanigans blasting huge monsters with crazy modded weapons. I think that’s an experience the market can use more of, especially in multiplayer. Also, if this game is ported to console, gyroscope aiming has to be the STANDARD. The controller for scheme hasn’t evolved one bit in over 20 years since Halo Combat Evolved came out. That has to change if controller aiming is ver to be able to keep up with mouse and keyboard, and the hobbyists on PC have already found the way to do it with gyroscopic aiming and the “flick stick” control scheme allowing controller players to snap and flick just like mouse players. Yes, it’s a risk because it’s alien compared to the contemporary control mechanism, but please just put it as the default for the new quake game on consoles and have players walk through a basic shooting course with it so that they realize it isn’t so bad and is quite empowering when you can wrap your head around it.
Funke covered well movement topic. Although movement in quake not that hard as people think, they scared still. Bethesda now running by efficient managers they will make quake as accesible as possible and add battle passes.
They’re not going back in time for “free to play game” with private sever or server browser or map editor or mods. They want full control and pushing micro transactions to make money. And there is no Q6 or any new quake when the current quake can barely survive
Mid video
Mid air
mid sigma
no way you got pinned twice for the same comment lmao
"just make diabotical 2" and the monkey paw curled it's finger
New player onboarding is the most important aspect of these games if one is ever going to take off. Can be any variation of previous quakes, that aspect hardly matters. Getting people to enjoy the gameplay (probably single player of some sort) before letting them get destroyed is a step in the right direction.
You say live service doesn't cause negatives. It massively does. Things like player hosted servers are disincentivised. Modding and mapmaking are often either pushed to the side, or made internal, or massively deprecated because of the drip feed. Look at something like CS2 vs playing the previous games in that series, or Quake III. In the current game, you dial into the master server first, and unless you know what to click, now you're in matchmaking on official servers getting fed skins and a map rotation. In earlier games, you boot up, check server list, and yeah you could load up specific servers to play the competitive maplist in 5v5 or whatever, but you could also play something crazier. This has been pushed to the side for so long now that the community servers are hard to host and the browser runs independently of the game. There's less incentive to mod in player models and weapons due to the feed of skins and stuff. It enriches the developer at the expense of the expression of the community.
Inb4 something like "yeah but the game is more successful." By what metric? It's not unplayably bad or anything, but it's successful on a metric of numbers going up(especially in developing markets, not so much NA), but it's successful in terms of milking players for the financial success of the developer. A game like Quake is made, finished, and put out. People buy a copy while the developer makes a sequel. "But if there's no dev who keeps the servers on?" You do. Most of the Quake/Quake-like games you play do not require the player to dial a master server, they just boot up and the game can scan for available community servers. It's a type of game that's actually entirely counter to the business model which you're suggesting. It's mutually exclusive.
There *could* be third options by which devs give certain community servers keys to being official, or they're very active in currating, or something. There could be an iracing type subscription model, and that kind of thing is extremely distinct from the battle passes and other "hook the player" systems that have come since, but that's not what you suggested.
Well, I'm not a network specialist, but "Game can scan for available community servers" - wouldn't that require a "master server" that "listens" for ping send in from active servers and refers it to game client? I've learnt that from recent UT shutdown: had to add some community-sourced master servers in config file to actually see anything inside game's server browser.
No.
The Exes for classic quake games can listen for servers. Far beyond that, even without formal 'server list' in game, you can still dial fan servers by just knowing where they're hosted. It's a completely different topography than you're suggesting. If there was a master for old ID games they would have been shut down a thousand times over by now. Quakeworld doesn't just "go down."
A 'master server' is like the Matchmaking Server for Halo 3. It's a computer which is running at Microsoft, listening for players/servers, and organizing games. It's something that's needed for games with MM, but it shouldn't be a bottleneck for community servers.
What you're thinking of is something like CS2 or whatever where the community servers are auth'd by a key to go on the public list, or worse yet, you're thinking of some other game's topography which I'm not familiar with in which the list is generated by a master server. In both of these situations, there's a direct or indirect master server.
What I advocate for is not having a master server which creates the list, or having a master -> matchmaking as the only/default mode of play. It needs to be the freeform/old system, not the locked down new system. The 'middle ground' would sort of be like the CS2 system, where you need to put in a player's validation key to get a server listed. This would still allow for players to host their own servers and their own maps and stuff, but it allows the developer to just axe the whole thing/most of it. I suppose that so long as there's private server options that exist outside of the developer(IE dedicated server EXE), you could still have something like the web browser-based doom and quake server lists, though.
The problem with community servers is mainly the security and the ability for cheat developers to have a sandbox (look valorant there are barely any cheaters because of kernel anti cheat and no community server/LAN Client)
@@igov1152 Uhhhhh... Yeah?
Here's the thing, you're acting like a master server system that operates like CS or Val is ideal or in some way core to making Quake the game it is. It isn't. Quake has always been its strongest as a grassroots game.
Community servers largely solve the cheating problem by making there nothing to cheat for(no one cares enough to cheat if there isn't status to cheat for in random online matches), and in situations where players might be cheating, there's an admin on. No one gets kicked during a game of Valorant by the server admin either, yet this is always overlooked, if a player is hacking, they just have to suffer until the anticheat flags the guy or he does a flagrant spinbot and gets removed. Maybe he can be votekicked but a lot of games don't have that. Compare that to a team of admins who actually game on the server, know about the game, know the regulars, and can view the demos to check suspicious players as soon as weird shit starts happening. Add in the fact that there's not really much reason to hack when there's no pressure and most people are just doing a CTF for fun or something, this solves the cheating problem. People used to just think cheating was funny most of the time while playing big games of unranked.
Seriously, outside of tournament play, how much cheating was going on in average games of Quake Live, Reflex, Quake III, or the older games? I'm not saying it was none, there were still issues with cheating, I'm not trying to discount that, but was it on the level of CS2's launch, or CoD games, or even Valorant(which does have a cheating problem, just miniscule in comparisson with its tac shooter competitors)? Not even close.
I feel like without an sbmm mode new players would almost certainly end up being squashed by veterans and turned off of the game entirely though…
I don’t really know how you fix that problem and keep new players long enough for them to actually get good without a mode that directs them to matches with others of their skill level
Personally I don’t think matchmaking and live service stuff is incompatible with community servers and custom maps, I think TF2 shows how both can co-exist (and even feed into each other with community maps and modes and items becoming part of the matchmaking mode and the map stamp system supporting that)
A quake 6 campaign with gothic architecture with a combination of the style of quake 1 would be amazing
Quake 6 should be single-player only, open world and have romance options.
Romance with Lucy, yes
@@gendalfgray7889 romance with sorlag, actually
They must make my Shambler monster girl gf real
absolutely not. it should be offline signle player with optional multiplayer. no romance shit. piss off.
@@gendalfgray7889 LUCY LMAO
I would love it if the new quake had a rogue-like mode for single player to increase replayability. Something like "Enter the Gungeon" with 6 layers that you have to go through to get some sort of cosmetic reward at the end.
yes!!! or deadlink! deadlink is a rougelike that plays like quake and doom eternal. give it a try if you havent!
@@DbladeMedic thanks for the suggestion, it looks sick! I might try it.
@@Ghanemq8 of course man. I just discovered it myself and im havin a fuckin blast. Hope you enjoy it!
there's a rougelike fps called STRAFE
Maybe I'm in the wrong audience for these type of games but I'd love a campaign that levarages all the stuff that makes quake so much fun to play. The deep movement, snappy arcady controls, great gunplay and so forth. I would love more casual game modes too, though that is less important to me then a cool dark sci-fi (or better yet something more akin to the atmossphere in quake 1) storymode with good level design. I still come back to quake 1 for it's singleplayer and it's always a blast.
I'm fairly certain that's not *really* what people care about but I'd love for the devs to put a lot of love into the singleplayer content, maybe even do some co-op gamemodes like horde mode or something. Shooting stuff in quake just feels like crack, and I'd love for quake 6 to take much further advantage of that c:
08:00 - For me, an incidentally interesting approach that comes to mind, is the Quake 3 mod Generations Arena. Where, depending of what idSoftware game archetype you're playing as, you're using a set of weapons based on that character's title setting. So what's interesting in this concept? Welp, as the mod reveals each weapon roster set has their own quirks, strengths, and weaknesses. Quake 1 weapons have the better average firerate, but their shotguns are comparatively weaker against other series' shotguns, and their automatic weapons are projectile based(needing to target lead), Wolfenstein 3D weapons have the advantage of alot of them being a hitscan weapon, but comes with the disadvantage of having lesser performing lower-tier weapons, putting weapon hunting a top priority. Classic Doom has higher power SSG and RL, but SSG has the worse firerate of all shotgun archetypes, and Doom RL has the slowest rocket flight speed. Quake II has most damaging "sniper" weapon(QII railgun is BEEF), Quake 3 plasmagun is the best performing projectile weapon(compare to the similar weapon types on other games), etc...so you get the idea. The player gets to have choices on their preferred weapon sets, but they cannot game the loadout meta by simply opting to get the most synergistic and the best performing weapons. Instead, they have to decide and consider which weapon set they would run with, perks, warts and all.
yeah you get more variety & reasonably achieve balance like this, also "what you see is what you fight" is way more appealing to the normal person compared to a "heh you better spend time figuring out how this particular guy in the lobby is built" thing with random param changes
If it's multiplayer and it doesn't have dedicated servers, then it's a joke. These games on high ping are a joke and completely unplayable.
The Xonotic rocket launcher lets you guide the rockets by holding left click AND detonate them midair with right click. It's pretty dope.
doom eternal has mid air rocket detonation
yea i was like "hes joking he has to be"
As a quake veteran who started with the original, and played everyone competitively including champions; the reason why Quake has no players IS THE MOVEMENT. The movement caters to a very small group of people and the only way you're getting people to stick around is if you remove the bunny hops. Same problem with UT. UT 99 had no movement techs, and UT 99 is the one that still has the most players. The community can't agree; they always say they want more movement, but then the movement is what drives the players away. This is why the UT reboot was cancelled. The movement techs also affect weapon balance; and the double jump is why the rockets suck in UT 2k; this made the game even more shock rifle intensive.
You can actually see this issue in the new Doom games. Doom 2016 was pretty grounded, Doom Eternal is ridiculously airborn with nuts movement. It's the reason people who prefer 2016 prefer 2016, and also the reason Doom TDA is going back to a grounded approach. Advanced movements are always fun for the people that master them, but always reduce the amount of people who are going to stick around to master them; and the differential between a new player and someone that's mastered just the movement is always too large for either one of them to have fun.
Matter of fact; every game that has tons of players has a relatively simplistic movement style. Nobody plays Titan Fall 1/2, but they do play apex....
Right? So basically people are cool with running, jumping, edge climbing, and sliding, and anything beyond that is too much for people. Variable speed circle strafe jumping is just terrible for games, and trust me dog; there still isn't anyone faster than me in Quake 3. I have a legendary huck, I helped popularize the double beat using defrag in CPM_Velocity, trust me, I'm not saying this shit because I can't do it, I'm saying it, because even some of y'all still can't do it as well as me. Highlighting the problem.
Hmm sounds like you got bored and tired of quake and now you want a different game,that plays more like apex/COD.
Here is an idea,you can play apex and cod right now or any other number of fast TTK +slow movement casual shooters,there is literaly no shortage of those to choose from.
Here is another idea,just because you got sick of quake(doing speed runs or smh?)doesnt mean we all got sick of quake.
I would rather play quake with it's movement and gunplay vs bots and mby 1 dude online ,than play fortnite and cod with millions of people online ,if quake 6 is to be worth a shit in my book,it has to be quake ,that means 99% identical to Q3 especially movement wise(tbh it doesnt really have to be 99% identical,if they decide to make the game even faster and harder,I would be ok with that,but lets be real if they change something,it would be to dumb down/consolify the game).
There is only one good dueling 1v1 shooter that's worth a mention today and that's still quake,1v1 skill based games will never be mainstream with today's snow flake generation and "I am a chill dad trying to chill after work ,how dare people sweat at video games instead of mindlessly chillin" kind of players.
The worst possible thing quake can do is to try to be mainstream, if it does try to be mainstream ,it will without a doubt have more players,but it wont be quake anymore just another COD clone.pissing on the legacy of a once great series by naming itself something it's not(no different than EA's sw battlefront for example).
@@megaslayercho No. You didn't read at all.
doom eternal is widely regarded as being a direct upgrade over 2016, titanfall is fondly remembered and everyone wants it to come back with a 3rd game, and mainstream games in general are becoming more fast paced because the cod era has been over for a decade now
I think the biggest issue is people don't practice, and don't want to practice. They are there to load up a game and play. There needs to be opportunities for players to practice the movement in match. An unranked Battle Royale inspired mode would help alot. Not literally Battle Royale but a huge map with scattered Quake map style areas with powerups and weapons gives people a chance to practice movement getting between locations and the "dungeons" to put it into action.
Also I much prefer 2016 over eternal but it isn't the movement. It's the storytelling and less gamified aesthetic. I don't care about ancient gods creating demons and doomguy working for some tall alien dude and blah blah blah. I want Doomguy to be angry someone opened the wrong portal and having to clean up their mess. By the same token I want Doomguy to grab a gun off the corpse of a dude, or sever an arm of a dead scientist to open a biolock, I don't want a green light with a floating spinny shotgun in it, or the last demon of a group to be killed and the key I need is floating where I sent it back to hell.
I feel like microtransactions and industry's focus on "live-service games" is one of the reasons why support for community servers stopped being a feature: you can't push microtransactions and FOMO-bs on to player who chills on some private server. In a sense community servers would be a competitor to "company" server, and that kinda goes against the idea of live-service: people depend on a developer, and developer is in full control over the content that's pushed out and the game's availability (OW and the crew are perfect examples for that argument). Just think about it: why would I buy some cosmetics pack for 10 w/e money if I can go over some PServer with custom skins/maps/weapons and w/e else.
Loadouts? Meh, it's only sounds good on paper. But just as quake's weapons "meta" boiled down to RG-RL-LG, so will loadouts. And you'll end up having people playing pick-a-card game to counter what opponent have, rather than playing a shooter part, especially if players are allowed to change not only loadout but it's contents mid-game.
Besides, you said that in team games engaging opponent is a gamble since you lack info about what he has or hasn't in terms of armor/health/weapons - loadouts do the same, but in every game type, even duels.
As for PUps in team games - it's not really a design issue, rather than skill: in teams you could divide PUps spawnpoints between teammates, essentially cutting the rotation routes in half. I've briefly watched part of some tdm 4v4 tournament game in Q:L where 2 people from one of the teams would guard quad spawnpoint and then letting top fragger pick it up. There's also an in-team communication issue and your example with SH: teammates don't know status of one another - but it's not a problem for developer to solve, really, but rather players themselves. Developer only has to provide tools for players that let them communicate, nothing more.
I feel like another good change would be smaller max players with the exception of custom games maybe around 8 or so. A big issue older quake titles have were there are servers full of people on the smallest possible maps. I enjoy some chaos but i also want to be able to spawn in and not instantly get nuked by 5 guys.
xonotic allows you to detonate the Devastator's rockets mid-air and also guide it by moving your camera btw
With regards to stack management in team modes I feel like a perfectly valid option would be just making the pickups per-player rather than limited stock due to someone picking up the items, you are forced to manage these yourself. Leave major powerups like quad damage as a central control point that everyone will want to fight over and then break up each pick up into tiers, where they are randomized for each player, but have fixed locations.
Lets say a map is split into 3 layers vertically with a center pit that holds the power up of that map. With each layer vertically generally being a better position, you could make it so the highest layer has tier 3 items, this'll be your ammo, basic health, armor shards and more situational weapons like the GL or SG.
the middle layer holding tier 2 items, these will be your yellow armors, larger health items, and your main weapons like RL and LG.
the bottom being the least favorable in terms of position holds your tier 1 items, like your red armor, mega health etc.
So while you are spawning in and wanting to be well equipped, you'll make your way rotating through each level before going into a fight, or if your team is losing in a close game, you can play safe staying with weak utility staying in the upper layers or try to "clutch up" quickly for your team, grabbing the bare minimum and taking the risk by jumping straight into the middle or bottom level of the map.
Move this kind of system onto a more complex map rather than just a pit where each area has a "tier" assigned and do that per player so everyone has items in different locations and it'll force rotations as people try to build up their stack while some might guard an area, as though they don't know what exactly spawns there for their opponent, they'll know it's good enough to want to keep them off it.
Plus it'll force people to develop different routes as one match they might have a RL in that spawn and the next match it's just a +70 health making that pickup less of a priority.
Me when I forget to turn on comments 😀
You're a funny funny man. I liked the video, commented the video, subscribed the video and shared the video.
Meme saturation and montage is nice, watched whole vid and i barely give a shit about quake, but this was intertaining! Nicely done!
This all sounds good to me although I think it's worth mentioning that we did have an inventory system in Quake 2, I'm not sure how relevant that was to the multiplayer but it's pretty awesome in singleplayer maps and I'd love to see the system return.
One thing for the loadouts they could implement the weapons from the expansion packs like the multi rocket launcher, the mine launcher, ion ripper, phalanx, tesla mine and etc.
The grenade launcher combos are such a lost art
Really good points! I 100% agree on the movement, Reflex movement should be the norm.
when you're talking about the optimal movement mechanics, do you mean like anarki in qc? that would be what I'd want
here's a suggestion for pickup's problem:
1. what if after picking up an object you claim it for your team, and for the next 20-30 seconds only your team could pick it up, and it would only dispawn individually
so you pick up armour, now not only you have it, but also people around you can pick it up, they still have to walk over it, and the window for that could be adjusted to anywhere from 30 to 5 seconds,
2. after picking up a powerup, it will still stand there for other players, aftre 2 players pick it up it will be emptied and you'll need to wait untill it respawns. Basically 2 pickups in 1 spot.
the new Diabotical Rogue does the armor distribution to the team. its pretty slick. the mega is a spot you have to capture. it captures faster the more teamates you have on it. and then when you capture it the whole team gets it.
The wall kick is one of the main reasons I keep going back to Warsow/warfork
No.
Also..
No.
Just need a remastered q3 with shinny new GFX that we will all instantly turn down (but will attract new players to begin with) something similar to how they re-released q1 and q2 at Quakecon a couple of years ago. No champions that do different things so there is no meta, everyone starts the same fights it out based on skill.
I wouldnt go classifying any of the weapons as meta, thats just weird, there are more powerful weapons, sure, but other weapons have their place and all can be used to great levels
Wall jumping isnt really required, thats what the plasma gun is for.
Loadouts could potentially unbalance the game and what makes this game great is the balance, the only thing that can beat you is a person who has access to the exact same things as you have.
Depending on your mode, powerups just need to be placed somewhere that is equally accessible from different spawn points. If game mode is duel, have only 2 spawn points for each players very first spawn, equal distance away from both players, the player that gets there first gets the power up, after that spawns can be randomised to different map locations.
Guess you could throw a campaign in there for those that like SP and new players, maybe some will come to MP afterwards.
Some multiplayer modes with bots would be good. If the mode is CA throw a couple of variably skilled bots on either team to balance the game out and give the new players an opportunity to learn the game.
Quake live also had skill tiers for MP, you would only face players in your tier you could work your way up from t1 to t5, this worked really well but disappeared most likely due to falling numbers and quake moving to steam.
Metas exist in literally every game. There is no avoiding that. A meta is an optimal strategy and Quake has a meta that has been fairly consistent throughout most titles, which separates it from other games. Quakes balancing also isn’t amazing and there have been games where the balancing is poor. Quake 1 is an excellent example and champions probably isn’t amazing either. Even the idea of balance in terms of access to items isn’t perfect as there are plenty of maps where certain spawns give better access to stack and arsenal. Balancing is an inherent part of game design.
Quakes design philosophy has made great strides in having elements in the game to make the “most balanced” experience possible such as (relatively) even access to things on a map and no differences in a players potential arsenal in a match but I don’t think this serves to its benefit. I would argue this is something that makes the game fairly stale and really means that maps and game modes are the only thing that can make the playing experience “unique.” If you were to take this balanced philosophy to its extreme you would end up making a fairly boring game. Like the most balanced quake map would be one that’s mirrored and gives players to the exact same stack round start. The map would also feature minimal or no difference in high ground and would play almost like amphi. That’s boring. Some of the best quake maps are very asymmetrical. Imbalance is good to some degree and makes a game more compelling when done right.
Almost every other popular shooter and competitive game features forms of what I would term “tactical player choice” that create dynamics in a match that are unique to a player and allow room for multiple optimal forms of play or metas. Fighting games are a lovely example of this with characters having access to entirely different moves to each other, where even walk speeds on a character can be different. The tactical choice is which character you pick. Despite this inherent imbalance between characters, these games are considered incredibly competitive. Matchups invite improvisations and adaptations, with there being infinitely more complexities to the game. This gives it way more depth.
Keeping quake the way it’s always been is frankly boring as the game has already been solved. Adding just a little bit more to the game would make it infinitely more interesting while clearly still maintaining a competitive experience.
Also to touch on movement, plasma climbs see little to no use in an average match and would be nowhere near as fluid as wall jumping. Plasma climbing would still maintain most of its use cases with a wall jump as wall jumps are more used for cover horizontal distance than vertical which contrast the wall climbs vertical gain.
here's what i say to the issue with teams and resource control:
if someone on a team gets a pickup, that pickup spawner is "claimed" for a short duration- this duration would be the equivalent to respawn time.
when a player touches a pickup spawner that has been claimed, they get that weapon, and that specific cannot get anything from that spawner until the moment it becomes unclaimed.
this would allow players to take their time getting to a pickup, as opposed to players from bunching up around a single item before claiming it.
What about a Survival Quake game? You get the Quake weapons but ammo and health are scarce so you have to make each bulllet count
Quake 6 needs to be made where it's a single player campaign like Quake 2 and Quake 4 with also online multiplayer features.
sauerbraten cube 2 or openArena are great alterntative, especially love the map editor integrated in cube2
if they have a quake 4 (or 2) style with singleplayer campaign and a coop mode for it, i´ll be happy.
If the Shotgun isn't good enough to be part of the Meta and the Grenade Launcher always gets shafted, I propose the Unreal Tournament Flak Cannon as an alternative, it does both really well.
You should check out Xonotic. Its my favorite arena fps. It has air strafing and strafe jumping, a guided rocket whose alt fire DOES let you remotely detonate it. The game is extremely customizeable too. While not enabled by default there exists modifiers to implement a walljump and/or a dodge. Its free and open source and damn well made for coming out of the FOSS community. The game has tremendous potential and is worth trying out. Its like the best quake movement with weapons more akin to unreal tournament and is as moddable as counter strike. You cant go wrong.
B-b-but what about Warfork?1?1?
@@mmmcola6067 A solid game for sure. I think one of the reasons Xonotic does not have that wall jump/kick on by default is because the Blaster weapon has large knockback and can be used not just to bully people but for movement too. Blastering a wall can net you crazy speed but its not quite a wall kick. The wall kick feels like a clean and natural extension of the Quake movement imo. It would still work in Xonotic but the blaster would be preferable most of the time while the wall kick could make for more wild movement during firefights. I would honestly love to see either game take off. However I think Warfork lacks a unique identity and I love the weapons of Xonotic more. That alt-fire really expands your options and raises the skill ceiling of gunplay. GL can be explode on impact or if youre around a corner from an enemy, you can alt-fire and the nade will bounce once and explode 1.5s afterwards. Air control of rockets with remote detonation. the fishslap (a melee attack) with the shotgun. The crylink is a sort of plasma shotgun that when fire is released the plasma balls that were fired in a spread come to a single point and bounce once off a surface. It's alt-fire is a single shot of plasma that implodes, pulling people towards it. Its a good weapon to slow people down or speed your ass up by alt-firing at the ground and using that implosing to pull you forward. or to pull you up a wall if youre fast enough when you just barely miss a jump. or want to climb a wall you cant jump and you dont wanna blaster jump or rocket jump. Thanks for reading yet another wall of text (hopefully). I am very passionate about these kinds of games and love esports.
What's the game at 3:45?
The only disadvantage to CPMA-type movement is that the air control movement will have to be anisotropic. But I'd say fuck isotropy, I just wanna go fast anyway
Quake 3 remade in current id tech thats legit all we need
F*ck live services. I'll stick to quake live and modded UT4 if this ends up being a live service. I want my own servers, open free mod support, NO CASH SHOP OR MONETIZATION, etc. I don't care if it's the way the industry is moving. It's a crock of sh:+, and I'm not buying it. Neither should anyone else.
One thing about the load out suggestion is that fighting for weapons and routing to them especially at match start is in the DNA of quake, that said I'm not opposed to it, Champions already introduced the "meta" even more so with class abilities. Out of the 2 I'd say load outs are less game changing
Pretty sure the suggestion was not to drop weapon pickups but to have customizable weapons. So basically, I still only get the rocket launcher by picking it up on the map. But you and I might have different rocket launchers. Mine doesn't do as much self damage so I can rocket jump more whereas yours has rockets that can be exploded in midair with right click.
Always love these kind of videos! For the weapon variant idea; maybe it would be a good idea to consolidate most of the weapons into 3-4 primary types and have variations from those? Like Rocket, LG, Rail could become (better) grenade launcher, machine gun, rail v2 (lol). So like 3 primary pickup weapons and maybe 1-2 starting weapons (maybe shotgun + like and smg or something idk).
I feel like this would allow a lot more room for variety (because you can re-use other weapons like a buffed MG vs LG), while simplifying control schemes for players and making it a bit easier to understand.
Anyways, here's hoping to an arena game that catches on! I also think focusing mostly/entirely on team modes would be wise. It's just very hard to have a game that works for both 1v1 and XvX, especially with modern competition. A lot of the resource control problems could be alleviated if you only had to design for 3v3 or higher and not have to worry about 1v1 implications (as much)
I love quake's multiplayer but I really hope they put a big long singleplayer campaign
#2 - Loadouts for weapons being different upon pick up could be interesting, even though it'd be extremely divisive. Some ideas off the top of my head would be a railgun that functioned like the Unreal Tournament shock rifle. Or a rocket launcher that can't push others except yourself, but has a greater push for rocket jumps. As much as I'd genuinely prefer the arsenal to be the same, at this point I'd rather have more people playing Quake, or arena FPS as a whole. (Also I miss UT!)
If nothing else, at least having more variations of rockets, LG, rails, plasma/nails, etc. could give some strategic depth if they're tuned decently enough. In theory, maybe even counterplaying based on the player would have more incentive if one's dueling another and thinks they have a shock rifle or something. Thus you'd want to deny rails more than if they had base rail. Further, if a weapon variant is too overtuned in a competitive environment, the devs could just disable them. Or don't let them into competitive until a thorough testing period on a public test environment or what have you.
#4 - If item sharing were to be a thing, I think it'd have to be a percentage of the benefit to mitigate some of the snowballing problem. So you'd gain 50 instead of 100 if you receive the shared stack. Alternatively, give 75 for the one who took it, 50 for anyone near enough to take a share, but 100 if the one who took it has no one to share with. It'd be really bad in the hands of a full, organized party matching together... which already happens anyways in every game.
Another alternative idea would be that someone picks up megahealth, and it has to respawn for the opposing team and the one who picked it up. Anyone who picks it up thereafter on the receiver's team would have a 5 or 10 second window to run over and take it for less benefit, or a rapidly decaying benefit.
#5 and partially #1 - Thorough tutorials of how the movement works I think would help wonders. I learned strafejumping after QC, then CPMA and Source / Half-Life 1 thereafter because it's just to addicting. But I struggled to understand how Live was trying to explain it. It took me looking at dozens of videos and practicing in a defrag client with the CGaz HUD for me to get a genuine feel and understanding of what I'm doing wrong versus what I'm doing right.
The point being that having some strong visual explanation would work wonders for onboarding. It gets frustrating to not fully understand what you're doing wrong, but also have someone else doing laps around you and you're not sure how they're going "hackusation" proportions of fast.
Lastly, as much as I'm loathe to say it, I think finding a possible way to let in console players might be needed to give a new Quake some legs for the casual audience. Maybe limit it to gyro aim controllers and keyboard and mouse for consoles? I don't know. All I know is I don't want an aim assist problem. Movement might be possible on controller, or so I've heard with Titanfall 2, but aiming would be a drastically different problem to solve for that.
Good video, though! It's a discussion worth having, whether Quake 6 exists or not. It's about deriving from Quake mechanics, but arena FPS as a whole could really use _something_.
Since ID is working on Doom: The Dark Ages, my hope is a Machinegames Quake 6. Double trouble of goodness!
With how they eventually...handled Wolfenstein. I'm a bit cautious towards that sentiment. Currently looking at how their Indy project would turn up.
@@CatsOverdrive If you're referring to the RPG mechanics of Youngblood then I agree.
@@grzyruth9205 Again, I'm just looking at how their Indiana Jones game would turn up before I pass judgement. If anything, they could do well with level design and such, as they did swell enough on their map packs for the first two Quake enhancements.
We didn't even got Quake V
I don't play quake, so this is just an outsider perspective: Maybe instead of giving pickups to everyone within a radius, you just have the pickups on a cooldown per person.
If someone gets a pickup, the pickup goes on cooldown for them, but you can still pick it up. Obviously you wouldn't have this system and use the current system for quad damage and the like. There's still resource management, and you also help prevent snowballing from the 1 player monopolizing ALL of the important resources. For quad damage, you're still gonna have to contest it.
Will one be able to "transfer" the weapon skins, cosmetics etc. from QC to Quake 6 you think?
One thing you could do to solve items in team gamemodes is that when one player picks up an item they "capture" that item spawn until it respawns, and any other teammates who pick that item up gets the next tier down from it.
So large to medium to small HP/armour, and weapons either can only drop ammo until respawn makes the item neutral.
It's still important to control items and it still rewards players for being able to grab the item first, but also mitigates the sinarios where team mates are fighting each other for the chance to be the power player.
Why people wait for a company(bethesda) that never understood the franchises it bought to do something not dissapointing.
We need to make our own Quake+UT.
I'd like to have Half-Life 1 Adrenaline Gamer remastered with some QuakeWorld mixed in.
Doom Ethernal was actually great. But yeah, as long as they keep the Quake essentials Quake 6 won't be any different from Quake Champions.
@8:07 unreal tournaments laser rifle (ball detonates via laser, kinda same thing. AND VERY COOL)
Bro at 6:18 I thought you were going to say ADS based off of the gameplay footage, and I would have been so pissed. I generally agree with the video, pretty good ideas.
Funny too since the game technically already has ads with the zoom function, which serves the basic function of adsing while also being objectively better since you don’t have a weapons scope obstructing parts of your view.
@@skeleblood This is true. Zoom is superior.
For the items, i think they should be on the map. Not a timer though.
q4 is definitely jank, but i think crouch sliding should stay, i love how its implemented in quake champions, one of the most satisfying movement styles in any game imo. it strikes a good balance between the maneuverability of cpma and the speed of strafe jumping while adding a bit more depth through needing to time your crouches, and knowing when to slide vs strafejump.
dont get me wrong i love cpma movement, but i think its quite easy and has the lowest skill entry & ceiling of all the styles. crouch sliding would fill in that higher tier of movement thats a bit more difficult to learn, but very rewarding to master
i like your loadout idea, and think you can even expand upon it by including movement in there. you could choose different movement styles with different variants that affect air/strafe/slide acceleration and ups cap.
also, the tribolt is so misunderstood, i love it :( it definitely shines in duel, and gets kinda useless in bigger modes but once u learn how to use it right its great. i love that it rewards you for positioning & map knowledge with its limited range, and rewards timing/prediction with its delayed burst. pretty good at area denial & flushing enemies out from behind a corner too just to keep em at bay or prevent a trap.
I crave for a platformer hack and slash with slash as a protagonist
i honestly love a lot of the ideas listed here! not only would the devs be trying something new but it would give the players A LOT OF VARIETY! I have a couple of ideas as well for what I would want a new quake to have, one of them adds on to an idea said in this video:
1. I would like to add on to this "loadout system"! its a REALLY good idea, but for me its missing a little something. i thought about it for a while and realized "why not let players have customizable passive movement options in their loadout?" these options for example will use the champions passives from QC. you would be limited to about 2-3 "passive's" that can change how you can move on the map all together. say for like a couple of examples you can combine anarki's bunny hop with clutch's air dodge, or sorlags method of moving around combined with the QC crouch slide! it could allow not only for greater customability but also allow for WAY more skill expression!
2. Duels should not be the only competitive game modes to choose from. I would love for the new quake to not only have duels but also have modes like CTF, Freeze tag, and most importantly CLAN ARENA in their competitive playlist. It would really give the players a LOT MORE INCENTIVE to play competitive outside of duels.
3. this one is a disagreement. I think having the game be live service would give the game more negatives than benefits, I've played quite a few live service games and it seems that the only game that really gets the "live service part" is sadly fortnite.
4. This is something that I am NOT hoping for in the next quake game (this is the last one). Skill based matchmaking, we all know it and we all absolutely hate it if its used in a casual setting. If they decide to put casual SBMM into the new quake the game would suffer MASSIVELY. especially since if I were to play casual quake with SBMM I wouldn't think it was quake anymore, in fact I would compare the matchmaking to something like COD modern warfare 2 2022. it wouldn't be fun. it just wouldnt.
Regarding the sharing hp / armor in team games. What if teammates get a % of the armor/hp based on distance from you or some other metric? This could even be activated or adjusted through class or loadout based. Might not be a default option in games but just a feature or gamemode based.
I think the best direction for them to have gone was to continue developing and improving QuakeLive like Valve does with CS, have their modern live service style QC game and their single player series (Which may or may not be interconnected with their single player lineage.) The key to this would be improving their UI and overall platform as QC especially has the worst possible interface and features for stats, multiplayer, matchmaking, chat, speccing, recording and streaming. Key features for multiplayer outside of the game itself. How they went so far back from QL (which is still fairly basic by today's standards) is beyond me.
Strafe jumping vs bunny h comes back with every new quake game annoucement.
Imo, strafe jumping (and q3 vanilla movement, whatever you call it) brings more balance to the game.
The more speed you gain, the more predictible you become (with more vulnerability to rockets).
Bunny h and air control makes you hardly predictible, giving a huge advantage to speed.
Considering air control/bunny h is harder to master than strafe jumping, the gap between new and veteran player will be greater.
warfork mentioned
me happy
I think some positive things quake 6 could implement for newcomers could be a weapon shuffling system in casual modes (so good players can’t camp good weapons from them).
Perhaps advanced movement could be tied to equip-able items, that way the player makes an active choice and would understand their movement toolkit better. Like having b-hopping or air control being two different items, and having a max capacity so players can’t do everything. Like you could take reduced rocket jump damage and air control, but it would lock you out of having a grappling hook of something. Perhaps some would take up two slots at once.
More causal modes, ones where balance is not the priority. Players need to be able to feel good playing a game and I wish quake had more dumb fun modes.
Mainly, it shouldn't have active/passive abilities like in QC, as those are real burden. And as for netcode - it should finally work, again not like in QC.
the hardest and least intuitive part about Quake movement is the initial circle strafe jump to gain speed. Diabotical solved this as well with the boost button. crazy how many things Diabotical got right..
Meanwhile Quake 5: "You really don't like marines, do you?"
You deserve a jizzillion subs
crouch sliding is goated and quake 4 is sick
Quake ain’t making a comeback. I’ll play any new Quake games that may come along, but it won’t be popular.
I'm an enjoyer, keep 'em coming!
I really like the weapon loadout idea as for the armor pick ups I'm not sure maybe take them out all together and replace it by something that doesn't influence the balance as bad in a team not sure what. Also all the games closest to quake that progressed out of dueling feature objectives tf2 etc and unreal had alot of CTF and other modes
It's a shame quake isn't as popular as doom
In my opinion they should just copy QuakeWorld TDM item balancing and timing to make TDM fun again. In QW TDM players communicate and play together in a team to fight for ressources and share them to maximize map control. I think QL item timings are too complicated and weapons are too weak and not much fun to use. Also nobody wants to play large TDM with more than 4 players on each team. With so many players in such a fast game it's extremely hard to communicate with teammates and playing coordinated together... People who just want to play solo in a team setting can gladly go play Clan Arena...
you mention the load out system and mods to the weapons , that would be interesting. It would be new to the game for sure.
hopefully the game can bring newer players to this one. :)
I feel like a mixture of quake 1-3 thr vibe and themes of 1 because let's be honest it has a better vibe then 2 and they could make it a cosmic horror mixing 1 and 2 and have the multiplayer of 3 I think a single player and a campaign would be perfect because that's how the first 2 were both campaigns were good and fun and the multiplayer is of course iconic and needed
Quake Champions was the modern Quake game that we deserved but no one liked...
R.I.P. Quake
wait what was quake 5
They won’t give us a new Quake. They don’t think we deserve it!
good video👍very clever and good mr. bill!
Quake 3 Team Arena suicide skull
I hope that IF they ever make a Quake 6, i wish it would be a reboot of Quake 1, even if quake 2 is amazing, i don't want the strogg damnit!
Even if i technically wouldn't be able to play it cause of a weak PC. It simply existing would be enough to make me happy!
QL has PQL, which is literally cpma movement. its not a mod either, its built in the game.
I think the movement should also include sliding.
I think Quake 6 should bring back story mode. And for those who're broke between Quake 1 Lovecraftian lore, Quake 2 and 4 Stroggos lore continuation, and just anything new that could fit right in, it could have multiple characters having their own story mode, for example Visor having his backstory as a Strogg and how he got here, Klesh being a... Chitnid, Phobos having a Doom story side/mini lore before he got pulled in by the Vadrigar, and as you've said, the sky is the limit. I think we're downplaying Quake by only letting Doom and Wolfenstein having story modes.
You have to pick either "I want bhopping and rocket jumping" or "I want a game with lower skill floor that beginners can pick up", you can't have both.
Those are mechanics that are 100% essential, but they need tens of hours for them to "click" and hundreds more for you to get good at them. Holding W in a game with powerful bhopping is almost never the correct thing to do, other players will fly around at 3x your running speed. It's a non-starter.
Quake has always been a benchmark for graphics and fast-paced action. Quake 6 is intended to be a single-player sci-fi horror game. Distressing and terrifying. You can make a multiplayer side game out of it if you want. There is a deep storyline to make a great game.
i still miss ut4. i want ut4 to be actually finished ive always preferred ut to quake mp personally
I'm looking for a Quake 1 remaster
no classes and nothing directly from doom eternal. if i see a press shift to dash im going to do nothing but i will be sad
Xonotic has the detonate mid-air and also guidance for the rocket
there is a quake 5?
Honestly, if the game has CPMA style movement, I'd buy the battlepass, open the lootboxes, and subscribe to premium or whatever is the monetization of choice these days... TF2 style loadouts would be a fun addition for sure and utility items as well. You could even have some movement-related items too - grapple hook anyone? The amazing movement is definitely the biggest distinguishing factor of Quake to most modern games.
As for pickups, I think it depends a bit on the gamemode. I think in CTF it adds a nice bit of strategy / team play of timing the pickups and giving them to the flag carrier (or vice versa, throwing the flag to someone who is stacked). But yeah in TDM with randoms its kind of just annoying.
I think the biggest thing the game needs is a robust ranked mode consisting of three game modes with various player counts. I'm thinking 1v1, 3v3 and 5v5. One of the team-modes can be round based and the other not. Classically, CTF and CA would fit best but I'm open to new game modes. Ultimately, most people prefer team modes so they can't be secondary to duel.
And you'd be alone in the servers 6 months after the release.
As a multiplayer game Quake Champions made it well but its not friendly for new players and that is the biggest problem, the lack of players.
Maybe Quake 6 must be a Single Player experience exploiting all mechanics, movement and use of weapons. Like Doom Eternal but keeping the essence of Quake (movement and arsenal) the Champions roster to add a layer of replayability and enemies with random patterns and weak points. The campaing, semi- open world. Lot of arenas interconnected with slipgates like a metroidvania game.
Diabotical 2 came out interesting
How bad is the tribolt or whatever its called?
It's slightly better than the grenade launcher when it comes to offense, and a little worse when used for defensive area denial. You get used to it, though. I think it's a good weapon with a good design.
tribolt is actually great weapon and a great improvement over grenade launcher
@@nishantghorpade4820 QuakeWorld Grenadelauncher was better and more fun. Tribolt is super situational and way too hard to use to be worth it most of the time.
No - we are looking for a Quake 3 Remastered.
Doom 2016 online multiplayer maps are more like a new quake game as the devs just turned the new doom game as a quake arena style shooter but without the quake skin. The only difference is in the movement and speed its also more like a unreal tournament game deathmatch mode game as well
QUAKE 3 ARENA, with better graphism, and everything is gonna be alright ! Fuck the rest.
5:44 yoo its my video :D
these are all great ideas. the only ones i'm sketchy about is the one that you mentioned was sketchy. like the idea is cool but implementation is tricky
but loadouts are dogshit and i prefer straife jumping to bhopping no contest.
I agreed with some of your points, but I HAVE to interrupt the “battle pass” conversation for market sustainability reasons, because if you put a battlepass in Quake 6 but get the finer details of its implementation wrong, you can kill the game as early as day one.
Fortnite’s battle pass works off FOMO; you can play it to get some items for this season, but it’ll go away within a time when a new season rolls out, so you have to HURRY UP and clock a certain number of hours into the game if you want a cosmetic or risk losing access to it potentially forever. This was unique and interesting when Fortnite first came out because it created the possibility of “rare” and “unique” items without the need to have trading or gambling.
However, problems arise when EVERY game on the market is like this. Gamers may have many games they are interested in playing but only so many hours of their day. Games with a FOMO-style battle pass end up competing with each other for player hours because players need to decide which game they are gonna spend the majority of their time grinding to maximize the value they get out of the battlepass (they don’t want to spend money on one hoping to get some items and then lose the items forever because they literally didn’t have the time to play the game). We saw COD copy this battlepass style, then other games copied it, and over time so many games copied it that a lot of them actually died because it was their sole form of monetization and no one was gonna make FOMO game #69 their new full time gamer job to get ROI on the battle pass when they had battle passes for other games that they had already turned into jobs.
The market is burnt out on this monetization, and if Quake 6 tries to do it exactly the same way as Fortnite, it’ll be guaranteed dead on arrival, see ya suckers, time to wait for Quake 7. Very few people are gonna be willing to pay for the battle passes AND make Quake their full time job to harvest that ROI before the next pass comes out.
There is good news: you can keep the battlepass system but remove the FOMO by making them stay and accumulate forever. Helldivers 2 does this by calling them “Warbonds”, never removing them, and by allowing the player to progress them through a generic currency called “Medals” that they earn upon mission completion. Because the medals can be spent anywhere on demand, players can simply play the game and don’t even have to decide which warbond they are progressing until they get to the spending screen.
Deep Rock Galactic is another example of battle passes done right. In the past, when they introduced a new battlepass and shelved the old one, they put the items into a loot pool for in-game crates. This meant that when a pass expires. None of the items go away, you just unlock them in a different and unpredictable order.
Thats the end of my point about battle passes. As for the game itself, I think it needs a big, large-scale coop PVE mode. There are many, many good coop PVE games coming out that are drawing a lot of attention because the market has had a drought of casual multiplayer experiences in the name of “competitive this, competitive that”. You could have a PVE mode and put all kinds of crazy weapons and abilities that would never be balanced in PVP in that mode, and I think you would make a lot of players happy and draw a new audience to quake without disturbing the PVP guys. My favorite memories of games like Doom come from joining wacky 64 player coop servers on Zandronum and engaging in massive shenanigans blasting huge monsters with crazy modded weapons. I think that’s an experience the market can use more of, especially in multiplayer.
Also, if this game is ported to console, gyroscope aiming has to be the STANDARD. The controller for scheme hasn’t evolved one bit in over 20 years since Halo Combat Evolved came out. That has to change if controller aiming is ver to be able to keep up with mouse and keyboard, and the hobbyists on PC have already found the way to do it with gyroscopic aiming and the “flick stick” control scheme allowing controller players to snap and flick just like mouse players. Yes, it’s a risk because it’s alien compared to the contemporary control mechanism, but please just put it as the default for the new quake game on consoles and have players walk through a basic shooting course with it so that they realize it isn’t so bad and is quite empowering when you can wrap your head around it.
Funke covered well movement topic. Although movement in quake not that hard as people think, they scared still.
Bethesda now running by efficient managers they will make quake as accesible as possible and add battle passes.
They’re not going back in time for “free to play game” with private sever or server browser or map editor or mods. They want full control and pushing micro transactions to make money. And there is no Q6 or any new quake when the current quake can barely survive
I think Quake needs more weapons like Unreal Tournemnt
U know u can do it all just from commends from server?
I feel like if they really tried quake six could bring arena shooters back into the esports spotlight👌