The Genius of Quake (and the Stupidity of Nightmare)
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- Опубліковано 8 лип 2024
- I love rocket jumping raHHHH
Twitter: x.com/blunderly
Patreon: / blunderly
Background music is from OSRS or Quake lol
Outro song: Me All Mighty - Yabadum
yabadum.bandcamp.com/track/me...
Special thanks to Cojack and Biodegradable for feedback and video help - Ігри
>using a rocket launcher on the Shambler
STOP. FUCKING STOP.
@@user-wy4sy2re8c IM SORRY I DIDNT KNOW
@@blunderly Just like you didn't know they have 600 health. And people spend ~12 rockets on them bastards not understanding why they run out so quickly nor why they're so resistant to rockets. You should only use rockets on Shamblers as a last resort. Or just start axing them questions.
It's ironic that the creator of a video about how well Quake teaches its mechanics didn't know about the Shambler's explosive resistance, which is hinted at in the manual and otherwise completely opaque. To be fair to them though, that's pretty much the only major mechanic that isn't easy to understand from gameplay alone - there's also the fact that you still take armour damage when using the pentagram of protection, and a bug that causes dogs/fiends/spawns to instakill you if they land on your head, but that's about it.
@@SleeperJohns arcane dimensions has a genius fix for this by making the explosion look like a puff of dirt so it's visually obvious it's not working so well
@@blunderly to be fair you could just play it on console and have a better time no trust me the deals for Quake generous. Not to mention if you have a PS5 or new Xbox ("I can't be bothered in telling what type of name Xbox has for their consoles") they can be integrated to keyboard.
It is so nice that ID added a yellow armor to Quake. Without it, I would not be able to find my way through the levels.
5:48 I mean, Shub-Niggurah is literally a Lovecraft character
Fair but still a bad final boss and name
@@blunderly it is a shitty boss, but that's just how it's named. Sandy Petersen is a big Lovecraft fan and his passion definitely seeps into Quake
@@cooler_carpington Yeah for sure and I think Quake overall is the better for that influence.
can't believe he named an elder god after his cat
@@user-wy4sy2re8c People who know: 💀
It's difficult to relate to a new player discovering Quake since I've been playing it for 20+ years now. When I say nightmare is too easy it's probably for different reasons than when a new player says nightmare is too easy.
You kind of have to look at a game's design from within the context of the time it was made. Back then mouse look wasn't standard and most people had to get used to this new way of playing. Moreover, 3d accelerators were expensive and weren't widely adopted yet. The ones that were available were finicky and difficult to use. Frame rates were very rarely high let alone consistent.
It is clear nightmare difficulty was more of an afterthought, but I expect that's because id thought the game was already difficult enough. Like with Doom, nightmare was seen as a bonus extra for people who really, really liked the game and wanted to keep playing after finishing the campaign. It was never meant to be a main selling point.
Yeah for sure! I appreciate the perspective, easy to forget that. I think the changes with the 2021 remaster are still disappointing because they had the luxury of modern tech to have improved the mode for a new nightmare instead of just changing the health.
i've lived 10 lifetimes in between your posts blunderly
prepare for 10 more
@@blunderly please no
Come now it's only been a year. I've been waiting for a new installment for a book series for over a DECADE. It's like a prison sentence doing HARD TIME
@@ThommyofThennmay I suggest “A Tale of Two Cities” while you wait? Recently re-read it after a bunch of years and I really enjoyed it 🙃
@@teamoversquatch3785 I tried getting into it but the older style of writing takes some getting used to. Same thing happened with the prose of Robinson Crusoe but I got familiar enough in time. Yet I still felt like I was missing a lot due to not fully parsing the wording.
I should try Dickens again now that I've had the chance to read extremely long books and study archaic books a bit.
Btw I think this is the first time I've ever seen someone refer somebody to Dickens and it's refreshing
Even though nightmare difficulty is pretty poorly designed, I still massively appreciate that they did not want to touch the HP of enemies. Knowing how many shots of each weapon it takes to kill each enemy is some really satisfying game knowledge to learn.
I agree 100%. there's a satisfaction in building that routine.
When i play doom I feel the demons are trapped in hell with me
With quake i feel like wimpy cat trapped in cage with a horde of dogs with rabbies
the quake dance is good tho, where you just kinda dodge grenades and use the nailgun to shred things bc base nailgun does more dps than the super shotgun
For Quake I feel like I'm in a cage match with a bunch of marshmallow men. Quake's monsters are too spongy for how weak their attacks are.
@@metalsuccattack Quake's DBG brings shame to the super shotgun. What an anemic shotgun.
@@DinnerForkTongue i guess it just means in writing that the enemies are a higher tier than the doom ones if you have to resort to larger firepower. also the triple barreled shotgun from arcane dimensions fricks
Skill issue. You probably play it on console with controller, instead of mouse and keyboard on PC/Laptop as intended.
Getting music to work on quake is a such a fucking arcane knowledge.
tried getting the mark v port before id remastered the game, and I am not joking when I say there was no information on how to install the port
Oh good, I'm glad it's not just me.
and that's fitting to the game's theme tbh
Quake has like 3 dozen source ports that all play the music. For vanilla/retail you just have to put the disc in the drive. Nothing remotely arcane about it.
@wickednature2062 you dont install it, you just run it.
On the subject of source ports, I'd highly recommend giving Ironwail a shot.
It's a fork of Quakespasm, but adds a couple of extra features, like a new fullscreen hud, performance improvements in heavy custom maps, and a video mode that simulates the look of the original software renderer, with adjustable intensity.
Anyway, it's always nice to find a fellow Quake enthusiast! To this day, its one of the best-feeling shooters I've ever played. I can't tell you how many times I've ran through the first episode.
Agreed! And that sounds super good, been using Quakespasm so it sounds like a nice jump.
Doesn't work very well with netquake servers though..
@@Preinstallable Isn't ezquake the port for multiplayer?
Does Ironwail support Vulkan rendering?
@@tehFozzeY ezquake is a QuakeWorld port, not a netquake one
0:38 Look Gary, there I am!
haha I was hoping you'd catch yourself there
To clarify about nightmare:
- The original version made enemies do ranged attacks more frequently. It also makes vore projectiles move faster, all enemies flinch less frequently, and each shambler lightning blast last longer (which equates to 10 extra damage).
- The Copper mod _used to_ make nightmare the same as hard but with base hp lowered to 50, but version 1.30 scraps that in favour of an individual buff for each monster that suits its role - I assume this is what you meant by "smarter instead of faster", but I wouldn't say it's entirely accurate. Some enemies still shoot faster without being as exploitable, some move faster, and others have more specific changes. The mod also improves enemy AI in small ways across all difficulties. The current version of Copper is my favourite iteration of nightmare (and Quake's base feature set in general) by far.
- The 2021 rerelease has the 50hp cap that Copper used to have, as well as the faster vore projectiles and reduced flinch frequency from the original version.
Yeah the other changes nightmare makes from hard I actually like such as flinching less, I mainly mentioned the fast attacks because it's the most noticeable and honestly not the best. Good to know those details about copper!
3:27 Shamblers have damage resistance against explosives. it's nearly always better to shoot them with thunderbolt/nails/shells, with only exceptions when you have quad or literally nothing else to throw at them
I could lie and say I knew that and was out of nails but I’m just an idiot lol thanks for letting me know that, that’s dope.
@@blunderly This is Quake's WORST design flaw in my eyes. I have seen countless new players fall into the same trap. I'm not even sure what's the purpose of splash damage immunity.
@@r.g.thesecond Yeah me neither. In a world that doesn’t use game manuals it’s annoying because I don’t know how I’m supposed to know that just from playing the game.
@@r.g.thesecond Not immunity, the damage is halved when the target is a shambler. You can still hurt it but will need the double of explosions.
@@chpsilva Yeah I confused it with DOOM's version of explosive resistance.
I never found it as nervraking since the enemies don't respawn like in doom.
True there were just more of them in harder difficulties. There’s kind of a benefit to that though as it becomes a test of clearing everything out and helping you track where you’ve already been. It would be cool if there was an option to have respawning enemies like Doom.
The more blunderly videos I see, the more i live
@@xboxbreadbox8404 you must be barely holding on
@@blunderly exactly
Ironwail sourceport man, the easiest way to play quake
The first first person shooter game that made me want to play it was Descent. It just had a different vibe from the heavy metal machismo of Wolfenstein, Doom, Quake, Duke etc. Something moodier and more otherworldly and Lovecraftian
napoleon dynamite here telling me about the beauty of quake
one thing that I love about the quake shotgun is that it has a rhythm, how often do you shoot, strafe, and then shoot again
esp with the hellknight [i think it may just be the best enemy in the game btw, also ogre], and when you're too tired of it you can whipe out the nailgun or the perfarator [yes that's the name for the objectively better nailgun] and quickly kill the enemy, you do think of how the projectiles work though.
I thought it was just super nailgun lol good to know. But yes there's something so satisfying about the shotgun, especially the double barrel. It becomes very rhythmic when you build a general idea of how many shots it'll take to down an enemy too.
like how high level players use the shotgun's rhythm to time grenade jumps
Using Quake Champions' name for the super nailgun, based
NINE INCH NAILS MENTIONED
The original Quake is a definitive masterpiece
Agreeeddd
New peak just dropped
i've never even heard the term boomer-shooter but if i were a video game it'd probly be that.
@@Lanooski I think you’re right you old hag
You sound a lot like FUNKe, also good video; you're one of the few youtubers that manages to make an actual analysis of a game in stead of simply describing what can be done within the scope of the game, or repeating null and noninformative statements such as "the gunplay is good because the sounds are good" or the famous "the game really makes you feel like batman". I recommend reading Masters of Doom if you like Quake and the work of old Id; quake 1 being their swan song the book manages to paint an interesting picture of their success and eventual fiasco.
@@humanwannabe573 yea I defo want to read masters of doom it’s on my list, and thanks cause I love funke if the inspiration wasn’t obvious
i could write a comment saying underrated or whatever but i'm guessing you probably get 29284 of those already, so i won't. i found this video on twitter i think someone i follow liked your post about it or something. and i'll be honest i wasn't expecting much, but you delivered a delicious meal of a video, better than a lot of video essays i've seen in years. especially the writing, that shit was so peak. i don't really watch youtube that much anymore but if you make more stuff like this i'll certainly stick around. excited to see more meals from the blunderly table!
@@Zarkozy hey this comment means a lot to me I appreciate that heavily! I’ve taken a good year off to work on my writing and audio so glad it’s showing!
My favorite niche internet micro celebrity is back 🙌
blessss
....Honestly, discarding the major changes, Quake 1.5/Combat + has the best Nightmare experience. Ogres can now look up, hellknights' projectiles can home in on you(optional), shadow fiends(its basically the pinkie equivalent of quake), vores can jump and walk on the ceiling, scrags teleport, and the most important one is you can chop-off the zombie's arms with an axe. That kept the axe slightly more relevant other than for achievement. And the bosses now have more surprises in them.
So happy to hear more love for og Quake 💜 I miss it!
Quake is a really enjoyable, simple, fast paced game. Doom might be better in several ways but Quake's simplicity is very charming. It also has some of the best rocket jumping in all of gaming history despite coming out almost 30 years ago.
The only game "mechanic" left unexplained in-game are Shamblers taking less damage from rockets, just like Cygerdemons in Doom.
5:49 Tell that to Nyarlathotep.
I can't even begin to pronounce that one lmao
@blunderly Shub-Niggurath is taken directly from one of H.P. Lovecraft's stories, by the way. The whole aesthetic of Quake with all those castles and otherworldly dimensions is considered Lovecraftian.
@@blunderlyni-ar-lah-tho-tep
Great video from a man named blunderly🔥🔥
I actually like the first Quake better than Doom, I honestly wish more games took inspiration from it instead because it's just so iconic.
For me it's the perfect balance of action and horror, it's horror doesn't slow the game down and it's action doesn't take away that feeling of constant dread since enemies not only are a threat but they're actually pretty scary designwise.
Not to shit on Doom since I still like it a lot, but you cannot convince me the Imp, the Pink Demon or the Cacodemon are scary, they're goofy af, no one ever felt scared by their goofy asses,I didn't take them seriously even as a kid, but the first time I played Quake 1 and the freaking dudes with the chainsaws appeared I stopped playing not long after XD
The setting is awesome, the sound design is awesome (and underated imo) the music and ambience are awesome, the weapons are cool af, and the enemies are cool too.
I only played the first one cause I doubt the rest can match it, and from what I've seen online, the first one seems to have aged the best overall.
Yeah DOOM and Quake have very different "vibes" even if you could argue the gameplay is superficially similar. The sound design is super underrated, especially the noise of a grenade clunking around just feels layered. Thanks for the comment!
I think Doom was a bit of a prototype for what quake would become, also accounting for the fact that Doom had its sprites modeled after real clay models it did put some limits on what they could do.
Great retro review! Give us more :)
If Quake is a "boomer shooter", then Mario is a "boomer platformer"...
Its good to see new people covering quake!
Erm new blunderbuss upload??? Very nice!!!
you can tell some of ID had DND on their mind designing the levels of Doom 1 lmao. also the nightmare change in the remaster was strange because it includes Copper as an addon already
Yeah the inspo is clear lmaoo, even shows in Quake I think. Nightmare really suffered.
@@blunderly Copper is a good mod in other places because it makes changes that legitimately improve the experience like dead enemies no longer blocking shots or a shit ton of extra entities for mappers to use but it’s nightmare rebalance was overbearing. ogres having partial z-awareness so their able to adjust their aim also really hurts for muscle memory
@@jess648 Yeah making the AI "smart" is kinda annoying because the level design accounts for how the AI worked in vanilla. I like that ogres couldn't fire upwards, you have to focus on positioning.
@@blunderly i didn’t really notice that much of a difference with the other enemy types besides the death knight shooting slightly more often. enemies can still sometimes get stuck running towards you on a ledge if you’re below them
@@jess648 Enemies love to get stuck in Quake tbh no matter the port/mod so not totally shocked. Interesting.
Me when I love rocket jumping but NIGHTMARE hard caps my health to 50.
Yessss I wish I mentioned this in the video lol
Very well done video. If you keep doing this format you'll get more subs
time to replay quake
i love the first quake game: it innovated the fps landscape, gave us rocket jumping, birthed half-life and team fortress, has a unique and awesome theme. its such a shame the actual sequel to the first quake, which would have been quake 6 was rebranded into doom dark ages. (you cannot tell me id decided to coincidentally make a fantasy fps with a medieval theme and have it be for the doom franchise)
I know right that's how I felt when I saw the trailer too. It's kind of a shame because I'm not really a fan of Doom's narrative direction recently (I know people don't usually care about it but still). It's crazy how much impact Quake had on game development, even to this day.
Based quakepost.
Also thank you for acknowledging the expansions, they are sadly underrated. I wish more custom levels would use stuff from them.
>texture filtering
damn I didn’t even know about that
Oh no
anyways
I have been seeing the numbers 111 and 1111 alot lately, and only realised that this video is 11:11 minutes lol. Awesome video man.
For me my favorite track has got to be hall of souls, also it interesting to note that the quake modding community is still quite alive and well, perhaps even more so than dooms, then again i mostly partake in quakes community
I'm 38 now and I've been playing Quake online since about 1997. Q95.BAT was the original way to LAN or play online, then came Winquake, GLQuake and then Quakeworld which offered an improved netcode etc. I was 10 years of age when I first started playing and held my first lan when I was 12 :D Which I lost by 1 frag. I have since played all Quake(s) except for Quake4..
Quake Champions is the most recent, characters with abilities... I did pretty good.. but haven't played any games in about 18 months.
Quake is where it all begun, where it all started.. yet so many know nothing about it or think it's medicore.
Yet to me, Quake is the best.. the highest level.. Like tennis etc.. Where you have no one else to blame for loss or mistakes, other than yourself.
Cheers
@@murd0rgaming I dig your comment and appreciate the insight. I agree, Quake doesn’t get the credit it deserves for what it did for the video game industry.
I don't think there's anything wrong with Nightmare being unfair
It's the top difficulty above Hard what's worse than hard? Unfair and the satisfaction of overcoming such a challenge is great
My favorite Nightmare challenge is definitely DOOM 3 it's a lot more fun on that difficulty
DOOM 3 Nightmare: no medkits you lose 5 health every few seconds until you get to 25 and enemies deal more damage but you have the soul cube for the whole campaign
I'd be totally fine with it being unfair, I think the issue is that it's actually easier and the 50 hp cut in the remaster is a very bandaid approach that doesn't alleviate the issues created by messing with the base health pool. I didn't know how the nightmare worked in those games, that does sound fun.
Of course there's always the hot take that Doom Eternal is the real Quake 6, but for marketing. I suppose that's more an indication of the likelihood of a proper Quake followup than anything.
yea very on point with that. it’s a shame because ideally Id would continue to distinguish the two franchises by expanding on their original differences. I think everyone will agree at least in the multiplayer department that Quake feels pretty distinct and has untapped potential still.
Game Euclid for me lately. The immersion is present, the strategy of puzzle is present and it will make you cry and run until you get mad and fight.
> knows nothing about quake
> makes video about quake
@@NPC999 what makes you say that?
Yeah, what DOES make you say that?
When I clicked I wasn't sure if you'd be complaining about the difficulty of nightmare, or saying exactly what you said.
I bought Quake and have been loving it! I beat the first campaign, and I started on Nightmare mode. My thoughts were that, huh this is surprisingly easy, I wonder if gamers have just gotten better over the years.
Now hearing about the fire rate it totally makes sense! I'm excited to give it a replay on Hard and make my own conclusion. Thanks for the video!
@@BrapStephens thanks for the comment!
Cool video. By the way, what's your opinion on shamblers? Do you think they have fur? And what's the song in the end?
Me All Mighty - Yabadum
Shambler gotta have fur for sure and thanks!
great video, really hope well get something like Quake1 one day again. Ironwail is the best engine port and its also awesome in VR btw
oh my god. Another person who can't keep up with their content creation.... my people. Great video dude. I would love to watch more.
@@MarioVelezBThinkin Haha ikr it’s tough, hopefully will change but I’ve learned it’s best not to make promises to anyone but yourself! Thanks!
I agree with the idea that players shouldn't be challenged by the game dynamics from simply increasing stat numbers. That obstacle is frequently too easy to surmount so it doesn't feel like an authentic boost to difficulty. If a friend tried to prank you with the exact same prank over and over, but all they changed was a cosmetic, how many times would you fall for the same trick?
I like your logo and how fast you get into the video
Hey yeah I appreciate that! I dread long intros usually.
nin (trent) also did all the sound effects, not just the ambient tracks.
Yo what's the outro song? And why ain't it in the description
added it lol I totally forgot. It's Me All Mighty - Yabadum
@@blunderly Thank you!
What's the name of the song that you used for the outro?
Me All Mighty - Yabadum
1:11 "that thing like on the cereal box where you draw a line from the entrance to the exit" Yeah, that's called a maze. Really surprised you haven't heard of it. lol Quake 2's my favorite, and it's got its own set of nightmares. The id guys were just brilliant. Mostly. But I'm just wondering how I didn't know Reznor did the st. Guess I was too busy fraggin' Stroggs. That's a great st too.
Yeah that part was mostly for the bit. I like Doom's design but I think Quake improved on conveyance where getting lost felt more and more like your own fault. Part of that is just the verticality allowing for more condensed mazes with easier traversal, but also I'm biased because I've played Quake longer. Yeah the nail ammo pickups in Quake have the NIN logo on it lol it's pretty cool.
@@blunderly I knew you were joking with the maze bit btw.
hey! i was the guy who made the post on the very left in 5:10!
lmaooo that was my favorite of the three so congrats!
@@blunderly really good vid btw, ima sub
They STILL haven't paid Mick Gordon?
Love Quake! Great video! We hope they'll make a solid Quake again one day. Be sure to check out our reimagined concept trailer and let us know if you like it or hate it!
Shub Niggurath makes Doom 2 Icon of Sin look like Ocarina of Time Ganon in comparison
Shub is at least a half decent enemy gauntlet.
what a great thumbnail, dude... i did similar one like a year ago, not as good as yours ♥
hey thanks! would love to see what yours was sometime
@@blunderly haha, youre so awesome!
Jax49- *Quake 1 - E1M1 Pacifist (October 21 2021)*
Jax49Gameplay- *Im gonna slap Shub-Niggurath!*
It's nothing really, but do i love creating 'for myself'
@@Jax49 I dig it! I like the branding you got on it. Videos should be made for yourself first so that's a good mindset.
@@blunderly Holy shi- you actually did it, WOW what an honor ♥
Thanks a lot! Appericiate it
I prefer Quake with evil cyborgs, tbh.
Holy shit, I can't believe I've found another human being who (1) prefers Quake singleplayer to multiplayer and (2) likes Ghosts I-IV.
you get it
what exactly would you do to fix nightmare
as it stands i like nightmare but agree its heavily flawed and could be more
my idea is to still keep enemies being faster in a way (move faster, attacks are quicker, more frequent attacks but not overly frequent, faster projectiles)
still keep their reduced pain, make them smarter and turn off either small health kits or medium health kits from spawning and same thing for ammo
@@krowta2062 I like the idea of a smarter AI or how the regular difficulty options work by adding puzzles/monsters into levels (tactfully).
@@blunderly yeah thats not a bad idea at all
Resident Hill
7:43
Fukken based
Most iconic jump sound effect in video game history. Makes me moist.
Subscribed. You touched on everything in such a tight and concise video.
Why tf did they do nightmare in the Bethesda port so stupid?
Why couldnt it have been an option to switch on and off instead of forcing the 50 hp?
Agreed. It would have been a lot better to add a command or whatever if you wanted to lock your health or actually tweak the AI to fire faster in Nightmare but be smarter like mods of the game have already done. Thanks for the sub!
@blunderly you're welcome, thanks for entertaining me. Is that tf2 soldier? Either way we both smokin the cigars in our pfp.
Is it just me or has anyone mentioned how ctf is broken for quake on console?
@@christiangottsacker6932 Yea of course thanks for the comment! It is soldier with my loadout lol. I hadn't actually noticed that it was broken, doubt most people use Quake 2021 for multiplayer imagine most of them are in Live or Champions.
@blunderly hell yeah. Love me some soldier.
Yeah idk like I said I feel like the only one with the issue, and like you said most people play quake online Alternatively
I never gave enough credit to Quake 1's gameplay so thank you for this video. I was firmly in the Duke 3D camp since it was just so much more immersive despite the outdated tech of sprites in a pseudo-3D world. Quake 3 is what got me to give 1 a real try but I still didn't get it. It was just too brown, dungeon-y, and monotonous.
And I really liked Quake 2. I wonder if that game had been named Doom 3 would it have been received better?
Thanks! True I have tons of what-if's with the Quake franchise.
Quake just seems like another Doom game but with a different title. The whole concept just seems to be the same as Doom, only difference is technical improvements. The level design may have different trends but that is just what would be expected from a Doom sequel anyway.
There are similarities, I don't think anyone would argue that they occupy a similar space. But there is a distinct feel to it, especially if you're comparing the "firsts" of each franchise.
Quake was overshadowed by Duke. Duke was simpler but so much more fun, than dark shitty quake.
I disagree, hard to see Quake being overshadowed by Duke considering Quake's multiplayer. But the market was more saturated than when Id released Doom.
@@blunderly Duke had own multiplayer as well, not so incredible as quake, but had it. And worked perfectly on 486@100Mhz and higher, while quake required Pentium 100MHz to play at reasonable framerate for multiplayer. Ofc, we played at 10-15 fps on 486, but experience are far from perfect ).
You know what's incredibly funny?
The picture in the thumbnail is the literal inspiration for 'Murderface' from Metalocalypse
Not for nothing, is your logo inspired by Dystopia? Oh no, actually it looks more like the Korova Milkbar from CW Orange!
Cool vid. Bit pessimistic but it's hard not to be.
The thing about being sad that John Carmack isn't doing John Carmack things any more, is that all those old John Carmack things still exist.
We can and do still play Quake 1, regardless of Champions or Quake 6.
Also Quake Champions is kinda sick af. I don't really play it much but I do watch the pro scene and it's the same feeling of watching pro matches back in the day but regular and with good video quality.
ua-cam.com/video/EEi-Z5vjvY0/v-deo.htmlsi=gWE9K6p2d7Tzz0Nu
I actually really enjoyed Quake Champions when I played recently to get footage for this vid. It's a good game and actually kinda easy to adjust to aside from the garbage about unlocking the characters and their abilities which I think is kinda annoying.
But can Carmack do Carmack things anymore?
Carmack fit himself quite well in the early days of gaming where a lot of math solving and clever optimization was needed to make a banger game, nowadays the solution for better graphics is just "buy a better computer".
Quake had music??
loll on a cd or somethin maybe I did it wrong
Not the floppy disc version (an shareware version) as i remember.
Boomer shooter? What does that even mean?
Quake is GenXer al the way dude, even the creators are GenXers
quake is a misfit series of games, every game was changed vastly in some way to differ from the original vision i.e quake being an rpg, wor being quake 2 and tim willits hard on for quake 4
👍
I can recommend the turok remaster for a somewhat similar game experience , in fact there is a quake mod campagin for turok
I need to try that, I've heard a couple things here and there but had no idea there was a mod!
thousandth sub 🤘
@@PickleAndPearBTBM Hey thank you so much!!
"*SHUH*"
bro is a loud mouth
Still feels like old doom still is more entertaining to play - and easier to mod - without taking anything from Q1 since it still great game....
Nightmare should have removed the maps zonelight feature and use only pointlight sources , faster shoting enemies might be hard but the devs seems not to have played the difficulty to realise its boring - just as when you do 1/3 of mobs health in WoW means the mobs never do his intented attacks and abilites since hes dead which make old wow classic the game to play . I geuss in a modern quake the devs would add a lot of mapfog instead of having or removing zonelight - which is just as bad as always lit up textures
i never liked quake 1, the claustrophobic levels with tight corridors in combination with bullet spongy enemies pissed me off because they ruined my pacing, i prefer both expansions over the original levels and quake 2.
@@arkgaharandan5881 I actually do agree that I think the expansions were really good and I had more fun with them. It’s fair for that stuff to bother you, I just like the tension caused by the claustrophobic design.
Anyone else think the thumbnail looks like Murderface?
lmao I can see it
Damn why you are shooting a shambler with explosives
I can't take this anymore
While I agree with you for most of the video, I got to say that the dragon boss from the expansion is absolutely horrible and one of the worst retro shooter bosses that I've fought. The level is very poorly made. You keep getting bounced around and can't get a proper foothold due to the bad level geometry. Its cheap.
I agree that it’s got some horrible aspects especially with the drops like the anti gravity lol , but I absolutely love the concept behind it and I don’t find it as egregious or difficult as people make it out to be.
Geez, dude. I've never heard of your channel, but this came up in my recommends. You definitely come at this decades later and missed a lot of context. You give Quake a lot of credit where you shouldn't. Right from the start, "Finer details like Quake adding the ability to jump." That wasn't a monumental design decision for Quake, and DOOM's designers weren't just idiots who missed something obvious. In 1993, making a game like DOOM was already nearly impossible. The one developer who could make it happen, John Carmack, was in the right place at the right time. Non-orthoginal walls, different light levels per sector, and variable floor heights with unique floor and ceiling textures were already mind-boggling technical achievements. It's witchcraft that we got it at all on machines build for spreadsheets (PCs, using a 386 processor, were probably the worst gaming hardware available in 93), and beyond impressive that DOOM is just as fun today as when it released. In 96, when Intel Pentium processors were becoming common, a fully 3D world with jumping was the obvious next step, one that the same brilliant developer had been working on for three years, not a brilliant decision by game designers. John Carmack was not a game designer. He made engines, and then left it to the rest of the staff to make a game out of it. A lot of your criticism seems to come down to 3D good 2D bad, and I highly disagree. 3D good, but 2D also good. Creativity isn't necessarily in what you add, but in what you do within constraints. Both games faced a lot of constraints, in terms of hardware, time, money, and staff. DOOM had more constraints in each area. So long as you're missing this mark, you're being highly subjective and masking it in hand-waving objectivity.
Each of the points you raise about what makes Quake good were also true of DOOM. "The Genius of Quake" is an incremental increase from what was already established with DOOM, except Quake was thrown together at the last minute from a hodge-podge of unrelated maps so they'd have something to release. A result of having fewer constraints. You seem to be comparing Quake at its best with DOOM at its worst, or else you wouldn't be saying what you were to compare them. (Seriously? The soundtrack sucks because you didn't like one song? Absolutely no bangers in there? Really?)
- DOOM had memorable locations in its maps to help make navigation easier. Watch John Romero play through DOOM Episode 1 with IGN where he explains some of the design decisions.
- Id didn't "condense levels" in Quake to make them easier. They're condensed because the hardware in 96 couldn't handle anything bigger. Maps had to be trimmed to run at all. (See the updated E2M6 for a large chunk of the original map that was restored in the remaster.) Same reason why levels in DOOM are smaller than DOOM II. Hardware got better in 94. And yet they still have convoluted maps in both Quake and DOOM.
- They didn't get better with keys in Quake. DOOM already dangled carrots to show you what you were looking for.
- "Finding" and "reaching" aren't monumentally different. One is about the journey, the other is about the destination. They're part of the same design loop. You do both in both games.
- You keep saying "stumbling through corridors" about DOOM's maps, when DOOM has more outdoor areas than Quake and more wide open areas. You're stumbling through corridors moreso in Quake. Just because levels could have floors over floors doesn't mean they did. Lots of corridors in there.
- DOOM also teaches weapon and monster mechanics within the level design.
- DOOM's monsters did require you to "locomote", especially with the DOOM II arsenal (mancubi, revanants, arch-viles, pain elementals). Some surround you in melee range, some use hitscan from afar, and some throw projectiles. Some have to hit you directly, some can hit you with splash damage. Many of DOOM's monsters also had both melee and ranged attacks. Combat changes based on the types of enemies, the verticality of the environment, and the weapons, ammo, and items available.
- On higher difficulties, monster and item placement also changes on DOOM, which does necessitate a change in strategy.
I could go on, because it's literally every point you make to compare them that misses the mark. But the thing is, you like Quake more. And that's fine! I've sunk hundreds of hours into Quake myself since 96. From DOS to WinQuake to GLQuake to many source ports and different platforms. I even have all the achievements on multiple platforms, so I've definitely spent a lot of time in the remaster too. The majority of my time in Quake was single player, but I also sank a couple hundred hours into multiplayer over the years. It doesn't bother me that you like Quake. It bothers me that to say you like Quake you criticize DOOM when literally all of your criticisms are misrepresentations. I get it, welcome to UA-cam 2024 when everything has to be controversial to get clicks and create engagement. And here I am feeding the algorithm as we speak. But come on. DOOM is objectively a great game, whether its your cup of tea or not. You don't have to say otherwise to say that Quake is worth playing.
Okay, now that I've written a novel, UA-cam will just delete my comment. Carry on, I guess.
I do believe in the idea that good things can be born of technical limitations. Even if Id's intent isn't why something in Quake is the way it is, that doesn't negate the effectiveness of it? I like how it's condensed, whether intentional or not.
This isn't really a video meant to tackle why Quake is better than Doom or something like a Sequelitis, simply to appreciate Quake for what it is with some light comparisons to Doom at best. I still think it's easier to get lost in Doom than Quake, but I do agree that distinct areas were more prevalent in Doom. Bigger levels makes it easier to get lost in general, but I admit I hyperbolized the maze aspect of Doom. It's really not that bad once you get adjusted, I just think Quake's verticality makes adjusting to that nowadays easier.
If I say Quake does something more (or better) like with the keys, that doesn't mean Doom didn't do it at all. It's refining versus inventing. Also, it is just my opinion. I love both games.
And I do like the soundtrack of Doom. There are many examples in it that are effective at matching the feel of levels. That was just an example of one that didn't work for me. I don't have to say I dislike Doom to say I like the direction Quake was going with the Doom formula. Both are exceptional games. I appreciate your time leaving the comment, it's given me a lot to think about with my biases and understanding that I'm coming to the games as an infant basically. But I disagree with what you assume about me just needing clicks or implying that I'm grifting or something.
@@blunderly First, I want to thank you for your thoughtful reply. I am surprised UA-cam didn't delete my comment, and I'm happy it didn't. I appreciate your perspective. And I'm sorry if my comment offended you personally in any way. Contrary to what my comments may have sounded like, I wasn't trying to imply or assume that you said what you said for clicks, just that the way it came across, which really does seem like a list of things that Quake did well and DOOM didn't, got engagement, and that's why UA-cam recommended it to me.
I'm happy to hear you like both. That didn't come across in the video, but, as I said, this is the first video of yours I've seen. Maybe you shared your opinion of DOOM in another video, or videos. I don't have that context, and this video made it seem like you were upset with the praise that DOOM received and didn't think it deserved it, while Quake did. I disagreed, so I shared my view.
I more than agree that good can come of technical limitations. It wasn't idly that I said, "Creativity isn't necessarily in what you add, but in what you do within constraints." Constraints and limitations are what creativity needs. I do agree that Quake did well within the limitations of level size. My biggest disappointments with Quake (speaking as someone who waited patiently for its release and then stormed the local software stores for the shareware CD) was in how it lacked any cohesion, and played like Id didn't learn anything from the successes and failures of DOOM. It felt like 60% of what made DOOM great, and then Id figured the 3D paint job made up for the rest. Maybe a slightly unfair modern parallel with help illustrate how it felt in 1996, but if DOOM was Lord of the Rings, Quake was The Hobbit. They had too much success with DOOM and it got to their heads. Quake was a mess. I was a teenager when I formed that opinion and still carry it to this day.
To be honest, I still consider Quake a poor game in comparison. However, and this may cause further controversy, I think Quake is the best of the trilogy. (I say trilogy because Id made 1-3. Quake 4 was made by Raven. I honestly really like Quake 4. But it's not an Id game, so I'm not comparing it here.) Quake 2 was much too clunky, and too ambitious for my tastes. (I just played the full game again last month, with all its expansions, in the remaster. By the end, I was really just counting down the levels until I could be done and move on with my life.) And I honestly hated Quake 3. This is with the context for the mid to late 90s when Id was no longer the only kid on the FPS block. Games like Blood, Half-Life, and Unreal Tournament far surpassed Id's work by the time Quake 3 came out.
I think the tech of Quake really kept it alive, while the design did not. (I'm specifically referring to the disjointed nature of the sci-fi and Lovecraftian themes. The game didn't know what it wanted to be because no one was taking charge of the overall design. Map makers just did whatever they wanted. Some liked tech bases and slipgates. Some liked horror. And then they slapped everything together and called it a game.) And I know you'll disagree with me. That's fine. We don't need to agree. I still have fun with it, but I think it could have been so much more than it was. That said, there are some areas where Quake absolutely excelled.
I think that the physics, multiplayer, WASD + mouselook, modding, and 3D acceleration in Quake (noting that VQuake and GLQuake were not available upon release) really did a lot for FPS as a genre and gaming as a whole. Much of the world doesn't appreciate how influential these aspects were. (I will note that DOOM created deathmatch, supported WASD + mouse from release, and was built with mod support. But each of these were more limited. And Quake did more than a slight bump up in each of these.) Rocket jumping and bunny hopping are huge. Not an intentional design decision, but great for the feel and free-form nature of movement (and exploiting these movement mechanics did a lot to popularize speed-running on the web). Fast and smooth 16 player online multiplayer was huge. (Thank you, QuakeWorld.) Defining our modern WASD + mouselook first-person control scheme was huge. (Although, to be fair, that came from deathmatch players sharing their control schemes. Quake didn't have any option in the menus to enable mouselook. That had to be done with console commands and cfg file tweaks.) Having deep support for modding basically everything about the game was huge. Assets could already be changed in DOOM, but QuakeC allowed modders to change the very nature of the game completely. And the mods created new deathmatch modes, new genres, new full games, and launched many careers. Being among the first games to support 3D acceleration cards really did a lot to legitimize the hardware, and having a killer app made it more financially viable to mass produce. Back then, 3D accelerators were add-on cards. You had a video card for 2D. You had to buy a separate accelerator card (or cards) for 3D. And it didn't make sense why you would do that until there were games to support it.
I honestly love the influence Quake has had on modern gaming. I will never diminish that. And I still have fun with the game. I especially liked the Dimensions of the Machine add-on that Machine Games did for the remaster. But in terms of design, I still think DOOM is a superior game. So this video pushed a lot of buttons for me in a negative way.
I appreciate that you took the time to read and respond to my thoughts. This is definitely my own opinion. And I really don't know many who share it, if anyone. But I appreciate talking about these games. They still mean a lot to me. And I appreciate being able to discuss them thoughtfully with others. So thank you.
I also didn't notice when I first watched this video how small your channel is. Who says The Algorithm doesn't recommend small channels? Congrats on breaking 1000 subs! I hope you have more success!
In hindsight, I feel bad about using that LotR/Hobbit analogy without context as I did. I feel that I need to say I actually like The Hobbit trilogy, while most people don't. It's not nearly as good as LotR, but I still enjoy it. So when I compare the two, I'm comparing them based on how I feel about them, not how others feel. Some people loath The Hobbit. And if you do, that's not what I meant by comparing DOOM and Quake. I only wanted to illustrate that Id came off a high and let it get to their heads. And Quake isn't as good as it could have been because of it.
I’m not offended by your comments, I appreciate them! I upload videos to talk about games like this so it’s fun for me and thanks for taking time out of your day to watch and analyze my vid. Just wanted to clarify my intent mostly. To be honest I’ve only made like two videos discussing games like this so I’m still learning and Id Software history is difficult to tackle so I definitely can concede on some of your points. I agree Id let a lot get to their heads, Quake is a messy game and there’s a reason Id sort of fell apart after it. It’s why I left the video off mentioning how it has a lot of untapped potential so I’m definitely with you on how it’s thematically jumbled. Doom is the more refined experience and most people will probably agree with that. Thanks again for the discussion and the well wishes! I hate how UA-cam is with comments, glad it didn’t get rid of yours.
The only good thing that came out of entirety of quake franchise was arcane dimensions
WRONG but understandable
this is the truth
quake champions seems like an unreal tournament rip off, lol. even the quad damage effect is there.
I feel it's more likely that they borrowed elements from each other's franchises.
Omg I've never felt so seen. It's like you read my thoughts and put them into actual words about why I prefer Quake to Doom.
@@Schraiber you get me
I’M POURING HONEY ON YOU GOAT!!!🐐 🐐🐐
YER
The original Quake game is not that hard on Nightmare. The addon episodes are MUCH harder. Just try The Dimension Of The Machine on Nightmare and see for yourself. I can easily beat the original Quake on Nightmare.
@@FACF0416 I agree
it does mildly annoy me that were almost at the third modern sp doom, but quake? nah dog if you want something new go after some modder food or go play QC or whatever.
@@toninhosoldierhelmet4033 Yeah I have a feeling that Id and Bethesda don’t want to share the market with Quake since they’ve gone all in on the Doom franchise. Or they’ll keep it forever multiplayer.
Ya mek guud vids bruh.
I liked Quake. I LOVED the original Nightmare Quake.
Yeah, I got the point that Nightmare makes enemies dumber by making them hyper-agressive. But by making them so, it also makes them play DIFFERENT from any other difficulty.
What's the point of playing slightly harder Hard? More enemies with more health hardly make for a new experience. Here I am, completed the game, telefraged the last boss and want more Quake on Hard. I don't want to do it again, I want something new. I know the locations, I know enemy patterns all too well.
That's where Nightmare comes in. Familiar places and enemies now require a completely different approach! Yeah, ogres mindlessly spam you with granades... AIN'T THAT AWESOME?! YOU HAVE TO DODGE ALL THE NADES WHILE SHOOTING THEM BACK! Yeah, Shamblers spam their lightnings at you... AND FORCE YOU TO COME TO LITERALLY FACE TO FACE WITH THEM TO TRIGGER THEIR MELEE ATTACK SO THEY DON'T SHRED YOU INTO PIECES WITH THEIR RANGED. YOU ARE DANCING WITH A BEAR WHERE A MISSTEP IS DEATH.
In Quake, enemies do a ranged attack and then walk to you. This walking stage gives you a breather. On Nightmare, there is no breather.
When you look at enemies one by one, Nightmare might seem to dumb down the dynamic of the game. But that's not how the game plays. It throws various types of enemies at you at the same time. And on Nightmare, they don't try to close distance. They attack you. All at once. And they don't stop until YOU stop them. And you have to dodge and shoot back and adapt.
That's why I HATE remastered Nightmare. It is just slightlt harder Hard. If at all harder. What do 50 hp matter if I know all enemy patterns and can dodge them easily? When I played on Remastered Nightmare, I did not feel difficulty. I felt boredom.
You have a clear concept of Quake enemy deisgn and how it should affect the player. Maybe you throw the academics out and try to feel out the experience of Nightmare as a DIFFERENT mode rather than higher difficulty? You might get the best Quake experience. And if not, hey, you played Quake, so time was not wasted.
Yeah I definitely enjoyed the fast shooting mobs, even if there's arguments on which is easier it's still hard and really fun. There are some parts where I think the fast shooting doesn't work like when an ogre is placed at a lower plane than you, but some situations make them superrrr deadly.
So, let's digest this video
I'm surprised you called Quake map design "less convoluted". There is no map to look at, the 3D enviroment in a lot of cases is convoluted and dissorienting, a lot of the areas use the same brown colored textures and the architech has a pretty repetative shapes. Two explicit examples of that are first and the last map of episode 2.
Keys being shown to the player but being out of reach isn't unique, since Doom had the same thing in few levels, but I think the reason why it's more prominent in Quake is that it's much easier to miss it compare to Doom's ones -- no vibrant main colors, no glowing , just spinning in place.
The teaching aspect is kinda...got out of nowhere to be honest, at least the first example is just...bad.
The dinamicy of enemies is...prominent in some cases, but HO HO they ARE quite a bullet sponges. Especially considering how after few levels of each episode Quake constantly uses only 3 types of enemies: ogres, fiends and dread knights.
Enemy design has some...weird decisions too, like how Vore's projectile is near impossible to get rid off, a lot of enemies being too spongey for using anything but rocket launcher and super nailgun for the rest of the campain, only shotgunning some dread knights out of necesssity. Also, some placement is just unforgivably cruel or annoying for no reason, like 2 fiends in the end of episode 3. They just cause you to die ince, then when you know they are here you have to jump to the side, and then do a D-tour back to the exit. Also, the existance of Spawns just makes the balance even worse (not that it was super great from the beginning)
Soundtrack? Works in every situation? Eh...no. It's same-y, gives one type of mood throughout the game. Doom's one experimented with variety of themes, from Suspense to Kitchen Ace, from Signs of Evil to The Demons from Adrian's Pen. Also, half an hour on that small ass maze? You just bad, dude.
Tim Willits is a douche. He is well known for his pride and the story how he helped American McGee made a bad map when he was directed to learn from him by Carmack (in the middle of already really tough development) should tell you all about him. His words are as trusty as a faulty beam
I don't think Quake needs a map to navigate it. Shit is good at conveyance with clever enemy placements, portals and lifts directing your attention. There are obvious flaws in it considering diff people designed diff levels and some are worse than others. I think getting lost is a little more baked into Doom than you're letting on, which is the point of the design of some areas of levels. I think the vore's projectile usually makes it feel like it's my fault if I ate it. The level design does teach a lot to the player, and I was never bothered by spending more time taking down enemies since there is a lot of moving and avoiding projectiles that makes it not feel dull. The soundtrack does not feel same-y, unless by same-y you mean consistent. I think it enhances the atmosphere. Doom does have parts of levels that showcase a key ahead of time, but like you said it was less often than Quake so of course I'd prefer that more often? You might just not like Quake, which is fine, but you seem to be trying really hard to avoid giving the game any credit whatsoever.
@@blunderly I can give Quake's credit, I just don't think your points is really working. And your additional comment is basically saying "You wrong" for every topic I've pointed out. Credit where credits do, but downsides of the game can't be easily overlooked. And I know, I've played and somewhat enjoyed Quake, wanted to even try out expantions, but they didn't lauch.
"baked into Doom" that's...sounds surprisingly racist. Especially from the guy who got stuck on a 3 minute area, like c'mon. Maybe you've just played Quake a billion times and remember all the passages, but it doesn't mean they are good at navigating player.
"Never bothered to take down enemies" good for you, doesn't really make it a great design, especially when you are low on anything but shells. Also, using ONLY the enemies that takes 4 Double-barrell blasts throughout most levels just get's tidious.
Soundtrack -- you've completely missed my point. Quake's soundtrack adds ONLY to the atmosphere. But it's not really a great music by itself, nor is it adds any fits different themes all that well. Doom's soundtrack did a much better job at that.
@@aanproduction1516 Racist??
@@blunderly yeah, I know, sounds dumb.
But for some reason it kinda does sounds racist.
Doom is NOT an arena shooter, Doom 2016 however...