“I’m $450k in debt but she still wants me to treat her to dinner”
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- Опубліковано 26 лип 2024
- Ramit Sethi of I Will Teach You To Be Rich talks to Serena and Nate, following up on a conversation with an equity problem-a serious one, and one they didn’t realize they had. Serena earns considerably more for now, but Nate stands to triple her salary in a couple of years. His medical school debt, in the meantime, crushes him.
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Can’t-miss moments
00:00:00 - Opening
00:03:55 - 1: How Serena would feel paying more rent
00:07:44 - 2: What money messages Serena learned growing up
00:14:37 - 3: They’re about to make $300,000/year
00:19:30 - 4: Will making more money solve their problem?
00:20:21 - 5: How Ramit would handle making $300,000
00:21:35 - 6: Serena realizes she’s a control freak!
00:32:49 - 7: Serena shares her top 3 values
00:37:31 - 8: How they decide to split the rent
00:34:35 - 9: The moment Serena realizes their rent split is “fucked up”
00:40:32 - 10: Nate finally feels seen
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If you and your partner have a money issue and you want my help, I occasionally select a couple to work with, free of charge. Apply for my help here: forms.gle/pjYMaLeThJM3z9uN6
Produced by Crate Media.
Please remember: These are real people who had the courage to come on my podcast and ask for help. Would you be willing to come on this podcast and share every detail of your financial life? Feel free to leave comments based on what you think, but remember that we are here to help in a supportive way, not to demean and criticize.
Im here to criticize 😂. Nate was a victim until you came in
@@simba8276 HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHHHAHA
Nate need to run, all about her !!!! That marriage will not work and he will always remember her bugging him, when she knows he can’t afford it
This comment section is being so unfair to Serena . Being a first gen kid is so stressful, especially if you have no money, it's very easy to develop a complex. He's obviously from a more secure financial background than her so it's easier for him to expect generosity. If she's makes 80k now, her maximum income will probably
be 100k/120k in her lifetime whereas his will be 300k in the next year. For the rest of their lives, he will always be making 3x more than her. Everyone can say "oh when he's a doctor he'll take care of her" but you have no idea what the future holds. There are many women in this world who financially helped their boyfriends out for years, through medical school, risky careers, new businesses, just to get left the second their men were wealthy enough to pull a younger/more conventionally attractive woman (Serena is pretty I'm not coming for her looks at all). She's smart to be hesitant to support anyone, no matter how much she loves him or how sweet he is. The future is not guaranteed no matter how much would say it is. I think drafting a healthy pre-nup for both of them now would be really good for her mental health and his probably too. People as smart as them feel comforted by stuff in writing.
@@penthousewhippiti will have to disagree here I think the comments section although very aggressive make a point. The point being that she is failing to take her partners financial position in consideration. She wants to go out and eat and take him but wants him to pay when he has no money? That is extremely inconsiderate. I don’t know how this relationship will work unless she does a lot of work. It can work but it will be on her. As for the prenup I think that would be best but would be interesting to see her reaction.
Nate, if you are viewing this and want to continue with her, sign a well defined pre-nup.
Wish you best of luck!
facts!!!!!!!
She should have one too, so that she doesn't get stuck with his 500K in debt/student loans, because those never go away.
@@irenekanel.ac.7721 Depends on the State. Here in Texas, anything you have for debt or assets prior to marriage stay yours. Friend of mine got divorced recently. She paid 60k of his med school loans. Didn't end up getting any of the outstanding loans he had for med school but also didn't get any of that 60k back.
@@irenekanel.ac.7721 Those will be paid in the first 2 years of marriage. In fact, they prob won't marry until he pays it off giving the vibe that he gives. Only she wins here, which is why HE needs a prenup, everyone walks away with their stuff after marriage.
@@irenekanel.ac.7721Nate will earn $10m+ over 30 years and she’ll only earn $2m with kids and all. That debt will disappear quickly without her assistance.
I appreciate her honesty. She's wildly selfish.
And wants to become a 'generous' version of herself. Good luck to her.
Brutal but true 😂
Crazy how she understands that Nate is using up 97% of his income on THEIR fixed expenses but she is still asking him for her $3000 back. From what?! Theres literally nothing left...
He is going to leave her as soon as he gets that degree. You can see it already. My wife's a Nurse and she sees these new doctors with the people that supported them through their school and residency and as soon as that is over, that Doctor leaves their old partner.
@@Zr0din its fine she didn't actually support him. she lowered his rent payment but beyond that she provided him 0 support.
@@Playingwithproxies, exactly. She is more of an added source of nagging stress he doesn't need.
She gives me crazy spoiled brat vibes. Harassing him about money for a trip she basically forced him to take, constantly.
Nagging him as soon as he walks in the door...
Screw that.
I agree, it's her trip that she is dragging him on then also asking him to pay the $3k. Also, he was okay with living in a cheaper place but she needs to rent from a more expensive place yet still asks him to unproportionally pay rent. I hope he figures out what a monster she is and he leaves her soon.
I think that is exactly what she is unspokenly afraid of!
As a woman who is proudly self-sufficient, I find her "me, me, me" attitude to be appalling. Serena, grow up! She is like a selfish toddler and Nate deserves better.
AMEN!!
Same same same! Nate needs to get himself a baddie, not a princess who wants to be pampered and throw a tantrum when she needs to buck up and help with the finances.
Selina says nate is her "person" but actions speak louder than words. Her actions scream greed and selfishness. He is spending 97% of his income on fixed costs and she STILL wants him to pay for the dinner out OR thank her for paying for half of the bill..
😂😂😂
he should thank her, why should he not say thank you? its basic politeness.
@@voguehaven5154because she isn't paying her share, he's paying more than her so why would he thank her? And aren't they partners in this together?
@@voguehaven5154Why should he say thank you for going 50-50 on a dinner date? What are you talking about?
@voguehaven5154 also are you unable to see how nate is talking how guilty and shameful he's feeling just because he thinks he should pay for everything as a man but unable to but In return he gets the type of women who is selfish
She has 50k in debt. I don't think she's selfish, but she has a whole lot of anxiety around money. It's good they are addressing this now to ask the hard questions...and to determine if they have a shot in the long term.
Am I the only person who felt that Serena was only willing to consider changing because she knew that Nate would eventually be earning much more? What if Nate wasn't a resident? Obviously this isn't the focus of the show; but it seemed like Ramit had to continuously refocus her on Nate eventually earning 300k just to get her to be less selfish with her money. She should be ok splitting things 65/35 with no expectation of him ever earning more. It presented as "I'm only doing this because I know I come out on top at the end of this." The fact that she settled at 60/40 and said she wanted to be generous tells me she still doesn't get it, she learned that she was being messed up, but still wanted to make sure she was "winning." I'm disgusted. I'm not trying to be nasty or belittle these people, but I cannot fathom treating someone, you love, this way. I truly wish her mindset changes. I wish the best for them, maybe they truly love eachother, but this isn't what love looks like... this is what a business/contract negotiation looks like.
A lot of shoulds in this comment. She isn’t dating someone who’s not gonna eventually earn more than her. Not sure why she should do anything for a hypothetical scenario.
Yeah, he deserves so much better.
@Listen you get it, you understand the frustration everyone in the comments is feeling
@@Gioli565 youll never meet somone ... this man has more STUDNET debt then what she made ina year
who's going to carry the baby again?
Both of these episodes and I know nothing about nate's money psychology. It was the serena show. Says it all right there.
Classic example of "What's yours is mine and what's mine is also mine"
60/40 division with 65/35 earning is neither generous nor fair and Serena saying „sugar baby“ showed her true attitude. This talk has made some progress for Serena, but she is not there yet
There’s ZERO progress. Members of the “Dark Triad,” like Serena, are like the Terminator. They can’t be argued with, bargained with or reasoned with. They don’t feel shame, or guilt, pity or remorse. They absolutely will not stop, EVER. Until they have conquered you by any means necessary. The telltale clue is she couldn’t bring herself to go 65/35 in their “revised” parameters. To her, that would means he got over on her. This is a contest for her: A conquest. He is her accessory. Her means to a luxurious end. And he’s so hopelessly smitten he’s following behind her like a lost puppy dog.
@@ian_fordagree and that sugar baby "joke" was super disrespectful. She is for the streets
@@ian_ford to say there was zero progress is objectively not true. Even as someone who is not a fan of Serena (I think Nate should/will eventually leave her), she was self-aware enough to be honest about who was and see that she needed to stop imposing her need for control onto Nick's finances. That said, I don't think the progress was/is enough to sustain a healthy relationship.
60/40 in the spirit of "generosity" caught me by surprise, I was hoping she'd say 70/30 since he'd been paying more than his share already.
I’m sorry. This is girl is RUDE, SELFISH, SELF CENTERED. It’s all about her. She’s the type that wants Nate on her arm to say, “I married a doctor.” She is bad news. There is absolutely no way that they are compatible. This is trauma bonding here. She’s a wounded soul.
I don't think she is bad news, but I do think she has a whole lot of anxiety around issues of security and money. She has 50k in debt from her own education, which is part of it, but she also heard her parents discussing money and the stress around it. It seems she is deeply afraid of having insecurity. They definitely need to work this out, or they won't make it.
@@kristinab1078bad selfish news
@@kristinab1078 There is a simple word for this: toxic.
@@mounirjamaaoui9780 I avoid the word toxic to describe people unless they are truly abusive and dangerous. Many or most people have their issues including insecurities from past experiences and loss. Most of us have something. Referring to anyone who is difficult to work with or to handle as toxic is ultimately dismissive of the complexities of human nature.
Everything about her feels rehearsed and controlled. When she says Nate is “my person”. It makes my skin crawl. I didn’t feel any love in it. He belongs to her…just like the dog. I don’t believe they will ever combine money. Her money will be hers and he will pay for ALL the expenses. Her ammunition will now be “I carried the weight” before so you have to now. 60/40 is not generous or even fair. Run!
Yeah... I thought it was weird that when she went to hug him the dog was included. She couldn't even hug with him and it wasn't even an embrace, it was like quickly giving him reassurance so he stays, whilst not being fully committed to him. Just like she'll quickly interject whenever he's talking, terrified she'll lose control of the narrative.
'My' person, is such a toxic mentality. He's my other half, he's my one and only, he's my life partner, show so much more dignity and mutuality, it's more about what you do for them, rather than what they are to you. There's a massive distinction between love and possession. Nate just slowly learning not to have the worthiness of a voice or needs and to accept the scraps because he doesn't recongise his own worth. I heard him say cute things about her, but gritted teeth if she did the same. It was hard enough for her to admit he was generous but since he was she quickly claimed that that's who she wants to be, so that's essentially something she can credit for herself too now. How exhausting. She does seem self-aware and willing to change, but how much of those changes will just be in behavior and word, rather than character. I got the sense that she genuinely wanted to change but didn't know how. I think when you've grown up believing/being reinforced that not looking out for your own needs means you won't survive, takes a lot of reprogramming to feel safe and loved in a healthy relationship. I hope they both find a healthy, fulfilling, peaceful life.
Same here! Glad I’m not the only one who the fuck says my person? Any other person says partner spouse or whatever. My person basically not even as a friend lover whatever just a person to funnel money from ugh. And I got the feeling she sees him as a dog someone to leash and drag around.
I felt there was an elephant in the room that really wasn't addressed and it's that marriage was looming. And how these money mindsets could destroy a marriage. Calling someone your person is cute but Nate is going to be her Husband. In a marriage its rarely 50/50. Each couple contributes differently given the season of marriage that they are in. A just us season. Two kids under two season. A parent needs care season. You lost your job season. And on and on. What makes it bearable is knowing you have a life partner that will stand by you through it all. Serena doesn't seem ready for the enviable turbulence marriage will bring. Her controlling ways will suffocate Nate inside a marriage. Nate seems way too passive or just too exhausted to fight her. Which is the beginning of the end in my opinion. Clearly, they love each other. It seems like they still have time to right the ship. Nate needs to speak up more and express his needs. Serena should continue working on her money beliefs. They both should get excited about a financial bright future that they can create together.
I agree. With the focus so much on split finances, it was never brought up about combining finances once they are married. Once you combine finances the whole splitting the rent and bills thing goes away. Unless they are still planning to keep their finances split once they are married?
I’d say they’ll never get around to joint accounts which is the norm for me and many marrieds. But I have a lot of former colleagues (I’m retired now so I’m in that frugally raised demographic) who haven’t joint accounts across the board like us. They have maybe a joint house account and then individual “my own money” accounts. This is all a bit alien to me. Splitting a cheque is only something I do eating out with friends not, with my husband. Each to their own I know and I’m not judging but I am judging Nate and Serena as I don’t see this working out as she’s too rigidly set in her control freak mindset and lacks insight.
When Nate makes $300,000, I guarantee you that Serena will have zero pushback with having a joint account with Nate with access to “their [her]” funds.
'Together' being the key word!
If I’m in Med School, dealing with long hours of class, studying, the last thing I want as soon as I get home is my old lady running her mouth. I don’t want to hear it! Men don’t want these fantasy driven idealized relationships women get often ruminate over. We want PEACE! ☮️
She is the literally definition of a woman who has a double standard and a narcissist.. he deserves better .
All women are like that.
@user-ld6wo4rv8h You sound bitter and single 😂
I don't think she is a narcissist. She has intense concerns around money and anxiety as well as a cultural understanding of who should always pay. It's illogical on some level, but hopefully if they stay together, they will get premarital counseling. I suspect there are other issues as well that should be addressed prior to marriage.
She's 29 years old, come on.
@@user-ld6wo4rv8h Go deal with your mommy issues somewhere else🙄🙄
Nate these are the red flags.
1. Although Ramit said the ratio to share the expenses should be 65:35 she doesn't agree & makes you pay more for rent. For dinner you need to pay 35% instead you're paying 50%
2. She says you are her Special Person but not when it comes to money
3. She wants you to visit her parents but doesn't want to sponsor you
4. When you start earning, she wants you to pay for everything, but now she doesn't want to support you financially.
5. You want to move out of this neighborhood as the rent has gone up, but she wants to stay here for status. She doesn't care about your financial burden.
6. She loves controlling.
This woman is a GOLD DIGGER. Run as fast as you can. Even when you earn that gigantic salary, it wont be enough for her. She'll RUIN you Nate. There are many women who will love you for what you are & will support you.
How is she a gold digger? She's literally paying more than half of the rent
@@allinterests287she is expecting the money she is spending now to be rapped back once he has a great income. She wants him to pay for everything when that happens so she is in fact beings gold digger because she will keep her income and also get his indirectly.
@@SaintsandSushi nah...if she is going to be a stay home mom, he will have to pay for everything. She's not a gold digger.
If he doesn't like it, he should find an educated woman on the same level as himself. However, its seems like men don't want that path either. What they want is a poor, subservient women who demands nothing and gives everything while he walks over her. That's called slavery...and surprise, no woman is up for that.
I don't think she's a gold digger but the other points were salient. I think she has insecurities with money and cares more about that burden than his mental state. She's not working from an 'us' mentality but only from a 'me' mentality.
@@voguehaven5154 absolutely agree with you that men just want a subservient he can control and who has no say in anything. However, what makes you assume that the woman in this video is not educated? She is making more than decent money and is able to afford a lot on her salary. She is a college graduate just like him. Nothing gave me the impression that he was more educated than her…he just happens to be on a field that pays major salaries to anyone…even people who are not college graduates who just take a 6 week course online. And I very much doubt she will be doing the whole stay at home thing and not have an income of her own….she is way too controlling to lose that kinda of power.
With all due respect, I don’t think they are meant for each other. Watched both episodes, and I’m so so sorry to think this. But that’s my conclusion. Also Nate, if when you need the woman the most she is that selfish, I think you should find a partner that is supportive and accommodating. Serena you are also not ready for marriage, at all. I am not even going to begin on this one. Thanks!
💯
Bro she a gold digger. Drop that girl with zero remorse
Once he becomes a doctor then if she starts an argument, pretty much she’s gone
Ok. You build up a man and get dropped for a younger model - Barbara D. Builder out here trying to get young women caught up.
Correct
As a resident with this much in loan. I can’t even watch this episode. That guy better run as fast as he can.
It was excruciating!!
I hope Nate can eventually find HIS person. At the very least, I hope he gets a prenup. I don’t understand how Serena can treat her fiancé like he’s just a roommate. Yes, she has to foot the bill more often, but does it matter where the money is coming from when you’re about to get married? Will he still “owe” her when they’re married? They’re supposed to be a team, it’s not about who owes who. Not that it should matter, but Nate will eventually earn a boatload and he’ll be able to contribute a lot more. Their situation is temporary, but she’s failing to hold him down like a fiancé should. It’s kinda selfish and makes Serena look unprepared for marriage.
Nate my man you need to take a step back
He feels bad because he is not able to pay for everything, she feels bad because he is not able to pay for everything
"I don't think I've ever really thought of Nate as... ok, 'this is someone that is a very important part of my life" - Serena about her fiancé. I really wish you the best Nate, after 1 1/4 episodes I cannot fathom watching any further. I've seen enough.
To be fair, I think she meant she didn’t think the second part- that her spending didn’t reflect that she is saying he is one of the most important parts of her life.
Don’t worry Nate once you’re earning she will find something else to be miserable about.
If Nate was my son I’d loose my mind, his parents must be horrified at this engagement
This stretches beyond their finances to their relationship as a whole, which I am afraid seems to need a lot of work. I sincerely hope that they get both individual and relationship counseling before getting married. There are a lot of big questions that were left unexplored, the biggest one being what is their relationship philosophy?
From what I've seen, Serena doesn't have a team philosophy. She's out to get as much as she can for herself. And that's it. This is evidenced by her personal entitlement (that she deserves to be treated generously by Nate, but she isn't treating him fairly let alone generously), lack of empathy toward Nate's circumstances, and her lack of understanding of what is a reasonable. No, asking him to "treat" her is not reasonable when he is spending 97% of his income on the bare essentials. No, asking him to go on an expensive vacation to visit her family is not reasonable, and it is absolutely ridiculous for her to have given her fiance a loan that she is now nagging him to pay back.
Don't get me wrong, I grew up in a poor and struggling family. I have some empathy toward Serena's anxiety about money. I have money anxiety of my own. However, I could not imagine treating my life partner the way that she treats hers. I'm very much a team-oriented person toward my life partner. Sometimes I'm going to give more (financially, emotionally, etc) and other times they're going to give more. That's because we're a team and the point of a relationship isn't for things to be 50/50. It's for our team to be functional and for us to do the best we can in life--together. And that philosphy transcends money.
This is definitely not going to be fixed with more money. It's not going to be fixed by getting married. It needs to be fixed with hard conversations.
Additionally, I wish that we had heard more of Nate's side of the story. He seems like he could be more amenable to a team philosophy--as in, we're a team and it's you + me against the world. And if that's the case, then there is a core incompatibility in the relationship and I'm honestly not sure why they are still together.
Of course, when the shoe is on the other foot, Serena will expect things to be different when Nate is making more money. That's consistent with her out to get as much as she can for herself philosophy. What happens if for whatever reason he can't work anymore? Is she going to become resentful and leave? Sounds like she might, and that's exactly the problem here.
They need to do some serious work on their relationship. I sincerely wish that they dig deep enough and do that work, otherwise I'm unfortunately not hopeful for their long-term outlook.
Yeah I don't think Serena realises how selfish she's being, but also how controlling(neurotic?) she is to have control/relief right now.
The loan thing is really ridiculous. I think she should be paying more than 66% of the rent, perhaps like 90%(though in a vacuum, splitting 50/50 seems an ok approach- if Nate doesn't go destitute). But really splitting expenses seems really silly. It's almost like they are planning to be with each other only temporarily.
It's also surreal how obviously poor Nate is and how unaware Serena is about this. How can you treat someone this poorly? Even with the loan, can't she just accept he will pay her back in like a month after being a doctor. With for example ~10% interest then Serena is better off not badgering him about it until then...
@lightbreeze183 Because she's hot and maybe he has yellow fever or a personality white girls that hot don't like(ie bookish/nerdy). Just spitballing
@@cooledcannon This is an unhelpful comment.
I agree. Their finance is similar to me and my partners finance. I earn 6 figures, he earns $35k a year as he’s still getting his masters. We live in the Bay Area which is very expensive. I pay larger portion of our expenses because I understand he cannot afford nor it isn’t fair for him to spend evenly. I also grew up poor but thankfully I learned to manage my finance and have a strict budget. She’s definitely inconsiderate. I don’t think they should even get married especially that finance is the biggest cause of divorce.
She needs to put her self in his shoes. They should work as a partner, a team. There’s def a lot of work here…
On the flip, I have zero empathy for her anxiety around money. I grew up poor too, I’m 27 today and I have yet to take a vacation as an adult. Outside of quality work clothes, and steel toe boots, I haven’t even bought casual clothes or shoes for fashion. Same clothes and shoes the last 3-4 years. There’s no in between. You either have money concerns and live accordingly or you don’t. No half ass non sense.
Ultimately, Nate needs to figure out what he values in a partnership and whether or not he wants to compromise on those values with Serena. The values of being honest with oneself and fairness come to mind.
Agree. I worried for him when she said in Ep 1 that rent was split the way it was because she has stuff to pay for. It seemed to not regard his needs! They are human and complicated, and I appreciated them being open. Sharing really took courage.
You've almost become a relationship therapist as I bet most divorces end up being due to financial disagreements. Very enlightening talk, I hope you do more! Real people, real ordinary financial issues.
I just came across a more fitting quote that fits this episode: “people who love us - care about how they make us feel.”
Nate - good luck with finding YOUR person! Serena - listen and be slow to speak. Take care!
I was so excited to see Serena willing to admit fault and try to be better, but the update was so disappointing. However I’m not surprised. We’re only seeing a tiny fragment of their lives, so it’s unfair to judge their relationship, but chances are, these issues snowball, they don’t miraculously disappear. Honestly, Serenas control of money seems to be more important than Nate-her “person”. What’s sadder is that Nate is acting like a man who loves his girl. He’s willing to give her his last dollar, but she struggles to just be fair-not even generous-just fair and equitable. It is unfair to judge people based on such short videos without knowing them at all. But Nate, you can do better my dude. Your girlfriend has prioritized control of money over you and that’s sad. She’s willing to watch you struggle so she can sleep soundly as shes able to save 10k while you scrape by. Think about that. You are too generous to a fault and she is too shrewd and controlling to a fault. I don’t think there’s a middle ground. She’s the kind of person who says “what’s mine is mine and what’s yours is mine too”. Best advice I ever got, “choose someone who reflects who you are inside”. Nate, you seem like a very generous person, I think you deserve at least that.
Nate appears to be over it. I think we know he’s got one foot out the door.
“She struggles to just be fair-not even generous” YES
making him pay more for rent because she wanted to live there, and now he spends more on gas $600/month on gas doesn't compensate for the $160 dollar more in rent. This is crazy to me
You are spot on.
Rents went up, he suggested moving, she said no. She wanted him to meet her family, he said he couldn't afford it, she forced him and "lent him" $3000. Then she refuses to split the rent fairly AND makes him go out to dinners and pick up the check.
She wants to be in control but not the responsibility around it. All this said, I think she and Nate were brave to come on here and unpack their thinking, so I really hope she's changed her thinking and they're doing much better.
I can’t help being mean here, he needs to break up with her yesterday. No excuses in her background for how she’s treating him.
Serena is too controlling, not in tune with her partner, and does not show much compassion. She doesn’t want to help for the short term but has her eye on the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow once Nate begins is career. Run Nate …
It’s so selfish of her and I wish we could have seen her being challenged more about her beliefs. I hope Nate gets a prenup.
I feel bad for Nate wasting his 20s being with someone so self-centered. I can't imagine coming home to someone berating me to pay them back for a trip to visit their parents of all things. Wild.
During residency, we made it work on $40k salary, sharing x-large bowls of pho because we were poor. Me working to clean houses to save on rent, making him lunches and keeping track of everything else. During fellowship, we made it work again with $60k salary with me being a stay home mom. Now, as an attending, sure $300k sounds like plenty, but after taxes and mortgage and loan repayment, its not the $30k per month like you would imagine.
We still live below our means, maxing out all possible retirement accounts and getting ready to try to buy our nicer house. Being married is team work, it means using your 80k income to help him get rid of his student loans. It means him sharing his 300k income. There's no your debt, your bill, your this or that.
Yep, we’ve been together 25 years from having nothing to the point of not taking any honeymoon and taking the bus to overnight fast-food shifts to take classes during the day to a single executive income where just an annual bonus is more than we dreamed of ever making in a year. What’s been the same in life through this whole arc is that everything we have is ours together and we are a team. Every career decision, debt payment, or late-night studying or feeding babies has been something we did to advance together as a team, not asking ourselves what would be equal or fair between us but just what can I be doing to make things best for my teammate. I think young people considering marriage would do well to consider how any systems they have for money management would work when something like cancer knocks. I would hope the plan isn’t to present a bill for services rendered and income covered when suddenly your person isn’t able to contribute in any way, potentially for a very long time. Life is challenging enough without setting your spouse as a financial opponent.
@@laurenm.6320They have to work together. If not for working together my husband and I wouldn't have what we have. When he was diagnosed with cancer in 2022 I put my head down and kept going to work making sure I maintained my job and thankfully his job was very accommodating and allowed him to work as much as he could so he didn't have to go on short term disability. Now he's gone and I'd happily give anything for him to still be here including and beyond having to bear the brunt of our finances (which he did for me so I could go to school). Some people are clueless and allow their own hangups to ruin something good.
I just can’t believe that they did not discuss finances before getting engaged.
Most couples don't.
Brutal to listen to. So many issues here and red flags. They should not be even talking about marriage unless they are aligned and going in the same direction. She is controlling and manipulative, He is a pushover who does not set healthy boundaries. Good luck to these two. If she is going on about him owing her for a trip that she is forcing him to take and he said that he cannot afford then making him grovel at her feet, how can he feel "love" towards her or anything other than resentment. If she is not willing to help him for huge potential future then she is not the right person for him. He needs to set boundaries!!
She only agreed to making the current rent arrangement more equitable when she acknowledged that in less than 5 years it will really benefit her when he makes 3x as much. When they go out he will, at best, split the check or pay for either drinks or dinner - even though she makes almost twice as much as him. And she’s STILL not willing to go 65/35 even though that would more appropriately match their incomes. I really hope he comes back at her with the same attitude when he’s the one making 300k. If she’s not willing to be proportional now, he shouldn’t be willing to later. I hope she listens to this and realizes how selfish and entitled she sounds.
I wish them the best, but it’s extremely rare that people can genuinely change. I was absolutely astounded when she said she wasn’t thrilled about having to pay an extra $160 a month for rent, when the other person is her fiancé. That’s someone who just isn’t ready for marriage. I know $80k isn’t rich, but if you’re only paying ~$1k a month in rent, $160 is a fairly trivial amount, literally less than $2k a year. I hope she can overcome these issues, but this is about as simply as it gets. Wait for a few years until he’s on $400k, she’s on $120k, and one wants a vacation house and the other wants to save more, or one wants to fly business and the other wants to stick with coach. The problems don’t change even when you have a high income, if anything it exposes differences even more when you’re not as driven by scarcity.
I THOUGHT THE SAME
My issue with the reluctance to pay the extra $160 towards rent was that she was not considering how much he was paying for her every time he picked up the check when they went out. In NYC it is easily over $160 a month if they go out even every other weekend.
I’d urge Nate to run. No way she’d be with him if he never was gonna be a doctor. She’s not a great person
Given these new “rules”, she has not internalized what generosity is. She simply doesn’t FEEL generous. People who are generous don’t need RULES. People who are generous WANT to make their spouse/significant other as happy as they can, she does not. I appreciate her honesty but her actual feelings are the reasons this marriage will not work.
She’s not ready for marriage, yours mine and ours, girl! And he needs to have a backbone and get on a budget. He should know when/how much he can pay her back, be it $15/week or month or whatever. He should be on a better budget. And tell her NO when dinner or whatever is not in his budget.
Why should he have to pay her back? He’s her person remember? You don’t do that to your significant others. There’s no division. It’s a very selfish mindset.
This is the saddest follow up we ever had on this show. She is behaving like this relationship is not based on trust, love and care. It's some sort of just an investment for her. Nate, she loves you, but God forbit you will fall ill and will need love and support. You will go through the same struggle with her. Please, don't get married. She will not be there for you in the future, same as she is not there for you now.
I saw zero evidence that she loves him. None.
Nate, one word Bro, same word as last week, "Run!" Her lense is imprisoning you. You seem like an incredible guy, but you look despondent during these interviews. The issues will not change once your income increases. Because it's not a money issue. It's a control issue. I guess the question I have is, are you guys moving towards marriage or a co-op? If you are moving towards marriage there is no me/mine/yours, it's ours/us/we. The longer the interview goes, the more painful it becomes. Splitting bills and rent? Stop spitting anything. You are either moving forward together with a common blueprint or you are building two different lives. Maybe she needs a second lap dog instead.
Yeah I hope he signs a prenup
@@Jingles9071 I hope they dont get married at all!!!!!! F a prenup.
No one is perfect and she’s open and willing to look at herself and learn, grow and change. I think she’s on a good path
She seemed disingenuous in most of her answers. She posed her answers with filters and acted surprised when she heard about control issues. Immature.
I can't even watch the rest of this, I cringe when Serena opens up her mouth. Good luck Nate, I hope you find someone that truly loves and respects who you are.
Nate, you better run! Run before you start making that 300k
why? she extremely cautious about spending, she doesn't even ask for anything or spend on herself. So you are recommending that she pays 60% of the rent and support him as much as she can, and then after all that, he should leave her just because....
Incel mentality.
I would love to come back to them in 3 years on an update. I’m curious to see where they would be in this process
I would hope Nate would be engaged to someone else.
Im married now to the love of my life. When we met, he was completely relationship avoidant, had commitment issues, and deep seated self doubt about being able to be a good partner. Everyone told me to "run"- but i had a lot of love and patience to give this person, and im so so glad that i was understanding and worked through his stuff with him. We are so happy now. Hes an incredible partner and husband. This couples situation has a different issue, but i honestly believe that people can and do change. They have the potential to have a beautiful relationship and marriage if they continue to be open to growing together and changing those mindsets that are holding them back from thriving together. Lets stop running when things get hard.
Marriage has to be 100/100 (not 50/50) or it won't last. I speak as someone who is married and has been for 39 years. ❤❤
You mean sharing the costs or whoever has the capacity to pay the bills?
@@josephj6521 Not just that, Joseph. I mean in terms of commitment to making the project work. Communication is the key. There must be no taboo subjects of conversation.
@@andrewrobinson2565 its never 100/100. There are times where one person carries the weight/load more than the other. If you think its 100/100, you have no clue what a 30 year marriage consists of.
Sound like you are an incel.
why are they beating around the bush? Serena should just pay for the entire rent. He can pay for the food/going out. 5 years later, he gunna have more than enough to support her. Regardless it still a red flag. Run away Nate. Best advice for you.
I feel so bad for Nate. I hope it all works out!
Since they are engaged I kept waiting for a discussion of whether the $3000 would still be owed if they were married. It just seemed like a lot of things weren't addressed directly enough.
I can imagine a future where they're spending an aniversary together with a kid and she would still ask about the $3000 loan. She seems worse than a creditor. It's like marrying a loan shark lmao. I know I joke about this, but the power dynamics change when you lend people money. I feel like Nate understands his position and knows he couldn't afford it to begin with. She could have accepted his financial status and went alone or if she really wants him to come then accept the responsibility of fronting the money for the trip as a gift. If the shoe was on the other foot and nate was making twice her income, I would not doubt he would just take her without any question about money.
Yes, totally agree! And the trip was to visit HER family!! Why was that a loan?
I love how Ramit has the ability to help people see their No so helpful behaviors in a way that it’s nice and relatable. I watched both episodes and being an immigrant myself, it was hard to listen to Serena and watch Nate just go with it at times. I am glad that Serena is going to therapy and I feel that’s a great tool to have, I use it constantly too. What really showed a red flag for me is that it gives me the feeling that her compromised to be more generous is conditional, and she constantly mentions that she will be able to pay a little extra just because Nate will be eventually make way more money and she expects to be taken care of, reality is that life is not perfect and sometimes people lose their jobs or life happens and it would be stressful to know that your partner is not willing to support you or is holding a grudge for picking up the bills. When you get married is a team effort sometimes they help you out and sometimes you pick extra hours to help them out because in reality you’re helping your now family. ❤ the update wasn’t good for Nate since he will still spend more than he can but I understand it also will take time for Serena to change a behavior she obviously has had for a long time. Her pickup the check when she is the one who wants to go out would be the loving and generous thing to do in my opinion. That way she would be also helping Nate putting that money towards gas or his credit card.
I want to thank this couple for being brave enough to do this so we can all learn from their experience.
Serena is selfish. Point blank.
I really appreciate your commentary at the end. It's validating to hear you articulate some of what I was thinking! I guess it's always easier to see things clearly from outside the situation.
If I was Nate’s mother, I would cry. I fear my child would be in a controlling lifeless relationship.
I loved part 1 & part 2. They were extreamly honest & brave.
Masterful! First episode, I had some level of resentment towards Serena’s perspectives, but after this episode, and due to your careful needling and question asking towards Sabrina that has leant to much needed introspection, I’ve come to realize that she is after all… human. Understanding fixes everything. Communication is a vaccine for resentment and most problems. You sir inspire me to be a better communicator and listener with this one episode. Take this win!
This was my experience as well! Well said.
I sense something a little more insidious bc I dated a girl exactly like this.
On the surface, you want to applaud her for her honesty. But these kind of people are masters at weaponizing their “honesty” They often use it as an excuse/crutch-but the thing is, they never stop doing the thing that’s hurting you. They hide under a cloak by doing very small acts of kindness (bare minimum) to project an image of being caring to everyone else: to friends, family, coworkers, colleagues, animal shelters, to everyone under the sun except you. Poor guy. I genuinely hope he comes to his senses, because sweeter, and frankly, hotter chicks will be throwing themselves at him in the future.
Good luck Nate, rooting for you.
Yes! This is PRECISELY my exact read on this.
I immediately thought covert narcissist when she opened her mouth.. on BOTH episodes.
She is extremely self centered, selfish, cold and has no business being in ANY relationship. Could you imagine her as a mother? I can’t even imagine her as a friend.
Hopefully chicks with a nicer nose
Ramit - I absolutely love the little exercise you had Serena do with the anthropologist and the clipboard! I think it's incredibly helpful to think through what change actually looks like and how to work towards goals from an action perspective, especially for someone like me who gets caught up in the thinking/analysis stage a lot when I am trying to make a change. Plus when I get anxious about whether I am making progress or not, being able to point to things I have actually done is really helpful in doing an honest review of my progress.
Thank you. I'm glad you liked it!
My brother Nate if you're watching run.
I think Serena has real fear around her ongoing security and a fear of abandonment. She's worked hard to get where she is and she doesn't want to blow it by making bad mistakes in love and money. I don't know if she feels really secure that Nate will be there for her in 3 years, whether conscious or subconscious. I think these people are brave being so vulnerable with Ramit and we should have compassion for her and her subconscious fears.
Maybe her fear, but he has to pay for it and suffer for it.
She might be thinking that he may leave her for someone in the future that will be going after him once he makes more money. That may be why she wants the $3,000 back. Why aren't they married and sharing everything?
Run Nate! Or at the minimum make sure she signs a prenup!
Nah, just run. Plenty fish out there who’d appreciate Nate.
@@josephj6521 its nice to judge a relationship based on a 40 mins segment. She probably does so many other things incredibly well. He doesn't have to throw the relationship away because a random person on the internet said "run, she's a gold digger eventhough she pays for food and rent" smh
Prenup won’t do him any good in this social climate. All she needs to do is show some crocodile tears in front of the judge and the prenup will be sent to the shadow realm.
@@voguehaven5154 I have a right to my opinion. I can see in 40 minutes her true nature. What does she have to offer? No idea. Someone else could offer more.
I relate to Serena so much. I also fixate on crossing things off my list and making plans daily, monthly, yearly. I've been married for two years and it's been extremely difficult. I never realized how much control I needed until I got married. I wanted everything to feel "fair" ALL THE TIME. I feel my husband is Nate-- very patient, kind, and looking for respect. I've grown so much as a person and learning to let go of control. The last 6 months have been so much better as I am able to let go of ego and learning to be more generous. Your marriage will work because you are honest with yourselves and I see the love that you share for each other. Keep having the difficult conversations, speak with each other with kindness through an empathetic lens. Be proactive in loving each other.
She's a narcissist. Disgusting to treat him like this, but expect him to pay when he's earning more. Pretty despicable.
Nate better leave that woman for sure!
As someone who makes similar income to Serena, I would have no problem being the primary financial support person in the relationship between me and my wife, if I knew 2/3 years later she’ll be making 3 to 4x more than me. Lol
Honestly, if you’re ready to marry the person, it shouldn’t matter what their potential future income is. She is using him.
Key phrase - your wife. They aren’t married.
excellent episode. So great to hear breakthroughs in real time.
I'd be so interested to hear some different types of relationships apart from just couple. A parent and child for example. so often in these episodes there is left over baggage from how we were raised. Interested to see this explored in this format.
I think she is controlling but not only that, she is also somewhat enjoying having the power in this relationship. She is more outspoken than Nate, who is more towards shy and less talkative. She is confrontational and he is more calm and doesn’t like confrontation. It’s like she is the man in the relationship and Nate let her be it. She sets the rules, all because her making more somewhat makes her feel more powerful. To me she is using him in some ways, I’m sure they love each other, but …. I don’t know! Honestly, I don’t see pure love here.
What makes you "sure" they love each other? What is love exactly?
This is spot on.
I totally empathize with Serena's financial trauma, as I am also the daughter of immigrants who were very financially conservative. I agree that changing my money psychology is very difficult. Ramit's podcasts and book have helped me a lot in this sense!
I'm curious about if there were other parts of this conversation in which Ramit tried to dig into why Nate hasn't been advocating for himself? I think it's great that Ramit was addressing Serena's deep-rooted issues, but Nate not using his voice make me feel like this dynamic will continue to be unsustainable.
Really Really Good question, why hasnt nate been advocating for himself. I fear for him on some level.
I don’t think it has anything to do with being an offspring of an immigrant. I am an immigrant myself and I am financially conservative, but I am not selfish towards with life partner.
She’s not being open about her gender roles expectations. Being from Asia, men take care of their women financially. She’s selfish, worries about being taken care of… yes, but that’s out of her comfort zone and not what she’s been taught. To avoid these kind of issues, live separately until married, and that if you’re willing to support each other. You can’t want to live like a Western woman but still want a traditional Asian man. Pick one.
she can do whatever she wants.
@@voguehaven5154and she can also be single, or find someone in her culture. Plenty of Asian doctors,here and abroad.
I I am ethnically African but born and raised in USA. There are conflicting ideas about money and gender roles but I think there is no problem blending the two points of view as long as your partner is on the same page. These two don't look on the same page at all.
People try to control in order to feel safe.
How can someone remind their partner for the money they owe every week, despite being engaged? Especially when it's for a trip that she planned. I bet if it was up to Nate he wouldn't go because he knows he couldn't afford it. It's mind blowing to me. She is a big red flag.
Nate is a damn saint .... holy shit. Dude is busting his ass commuting several hours a day, and probably working at least 70 hours a week. They stay in an apartment that he can't afford while he daily is risking his life by driving sleep deprived and under constant financial stress, only to come home to a fiance' who grills him about a debt she knows he can't pay, that she loaned him to visit HER family. There's no chance in hell this man would be travelling internationally at this stage in life if he wasn't with Serena.
she's totally comfortable exploiting him for more than his fair share of rent and meals, while she works from home (YEAH, SHE COULD LITERALLY WORK ANYWHERE) and stresses internally about buying a computer that she doesn't really need to make her life marginally better. Part of generous is forgiving a debts, and splitting expenses. A bigger and more important part is caring for your SO's mental health and physical well-being. $600 on gas at $4.00/gallon is 150 gallons used per month. Assuming Nate works 26 days per month (residency sucks) at 35 mpg that's a 100 MILE COMMUTE EACH WAY. That's at least 3 extra hours in the car per workday when he's already working what is likely a 12 hour shift. This is EXTREMELY, EXTREMELY DANGEROUS AND UNNECESSARY.
I hope Serena and Nate take their time and do not rush to get married (Nate, are YOU listening?) as more growth and development are needed on Serena's part. The comment "I almost want to go out on the town and make you my 'sugar baby' right now, is indicative that Serena isn't ready for real change right now. Whether the split is 50/50, 60/40, or 65/35, Serena may never be happy because she wants to be taken care of. The double standard mindset is obvious. Serena seems to be transactional and needs to win. Nate, are you listening? When/if children enter the scene, be prepared, Nate, to negotiate everything "parenting"--even after stressful nights in the world of medicine. My hope is that Serena takes more time to practice "change" before the two walk down the aisle.
I really, really hope Serena has learnt from this, and it's not just lip service. It is a temporary situation, and it would be interesting to see the dynamics when Nate will be making more money. Could you bring them back on the show please, Ramit?! I didn't like the sugar baby joke and glad you caught it, Ramit.
It was very demeaning, I didn’t appreciate that joke either.
Bet she wouldn’t appreciate being called a gold digger or sugar baby when he is making more than her and paying more bills/date nights.
And it sounds like that wasn’t what she really intended as we could see from the follow-up letter.
The sugar baby comment was awful.
Serena was all, "I'm going to be more relational, less transactional, and less controlling."
I cheered for her!
Then... "I'll make you my sugarbaby." 🤦♀️🤦♀️🤦♀️
@@NFPwife Exactly 🙃
@@NFPwife soon she will be the sugar baby.
LOL this totally adds WAY MORE context to part one
It was difficult to hear him respond. He’s not expressed himself much and she didn’t imagine that could be the case.
Because the moment he was candid, she cried about him making HER sound “mean”. Made it all about her.
@@dragonmom8739 yeah, that was very manipulative. Tears to shut down the other person.
He very responsibly said multiple times, “I can’t afford that.” She refused to listen & then punished him for not being able to afford things.
Also, she has disposable income *because* she’s not paying things in proportion with their incomes. She refuses to do so & then is upset he has no money.
The poor dude is working so hard at his profession. He needs a teammate - not to be harassed for things he admitted he can’t do.
For people like Nate to exist, people like Serena need to exist and vice-versa.....no amount of money is going to change the underlying personality issues that plague both of them but they are probably comfortable with the coexisting dynamics
unless nate is completely okay being a doormat (and sugar daddy -.-) for the rest of this relationship/future marriage this is not going to end well. many other comments have covered the red flags, like the extremely demeaning sugar baby joke and cutting him off. i would add to the latter that he talks something like 5 times this entire 44 minutes (very similar stats in part 1 if you don't count the time nate spends directly answering ramit's background info questions), and she still cuts him off.
ramit - would be interesting to see a time spent speaking pie chart breakdown. there have been quite a few episodes where one person dominates the conversation for one reason or another. this one was particularly telling to me showing the dysfunction in this relationship. of course, it could entirely be that they are perfect together in their dysfunctional puzzle-piecing life, but it is objectively dysfunctional nonetheless. glad they tried to talk it out here but i don't know if she will ever truly learn to be less selfish and work with nate as a team. the MD salary could just put a big bandaid over the surface money divvy issues but will not change who they are as people.
I didn`t even watch the whole thing and was already thinking: why isn`t he talking?? I`ve seen this type of "relationship" a lot of times, elsewhere and in my family, too, it`s often professionally very accomplished men (business owner, professor in physics, heart surgeon, engineer) married to extremely controlling women. While they`re very succesful in their jobs they`re total wusses at home and let their "wives" spray venom all the time, often unknowingly.
34:01 Be careful Nate. Even after these two episodes and after all of these long discussions to get her to open her eyes, Serena's intuition is still to try to negotiate and nickel and dime you after she's well aware of the situation. It constantly takes Ramit (a neutral third party) having to point out these things to her and ask her the difficult questions before she finally gives in and realizes that these very obvious decisions she makes are fucked up. It blows my mind that you are making half her income and you're going to school to be a doctor and will very soon be making $325k and it's like she doesn't want to realize that you would obviously pay back the favor in spades. Let's be real here, after a couple of years, youre going to be making 10x what you're making now. It's ridiculous that Serena is not taking advantage of this short time period to help you out as much as possible in these very tiring and arduous times while you do your residency. It blows my mind how it doesn't dawn on her, that by her tksing care of you right now, you are going to change her life and take care of her for the rest of her life. I mean, lets face it, youre probably going to pay 85 to 90% of the mortgage, travel, and so many other expenses...for THE REST OF YOUR LIVES. And here she is, pestering you weekly about when you're going to pay her back the $3k for the trip that she wanted to drag you along to that she very well knew you couldn't afford. She should have 100% covered this trip especially since she knows that youll be taking care of her for the rest of her life. But she's so selfish/greedy, that she needs all of that money back tomorrow despite your very obvious situation. And considering that it was a trip that SHE essentially forced you to come on. It's incredibly selfish. Not to mention the rent split. And even after opening her eyes a bit, her intuition was still to go 60/40 after Ramit asked for 65/35 which is more than fair for like what, a year or two? What a small sacrifice for her to make for what you'll give her in return for the rest of her life. There's definitely some underlying greed/selfish/life sucker type vibes there. Im sorry, there's too many red flags man. They keep popping up over and over and over throughout these two episodes. If you decide to stick around, good luck man, but she doesn't deserve you.
After watching this and after already having watching the first half, and im really disappointed in everyone saying how Nate needs to dump Serena right away. It takes so much to not only get out in front of a bunch of people, but to be honest about the negativity in ones life AND be open to changing. Serena has shown she deserves a chance to show Nate she can grow as a person. Nate needs to learn to enforce his own boundaries, He has let her get away with this. If Serena can to learn to let go and go with the flow, her life will be less stressful. If both of them can learn to grow and change together, this finance issue will just be another ripple in the water. Stay blessed out there guys! 💚
Control, judgmental and ambitious!! I always wonder why these couples are even together. When people show you who they are believe them the first time. She’s talking so much and she’s already planning on him paying more in the future. She has to be interrupted just for him to finish a sentence. He’s so grateful and it’s just so sad but will she really change . How do these people connect ?? Sugar baby ??? Really this is so sad. I hope he meets someone at the residency before the tie the knot and she’ll demand every nickel she spent on him
I feel bad for Nate - as we all seem to do, but some people just like being treated badly.
This was a long week to wait for part 2 Lol! I had mixed feelings listening to this one after feeling angry for Nate in the last one. The concept of "Money Psychology" is awesome - hearing this for the first time and hearing others' perspectives on this was intriguing.
I want to start by saying I understand Serena's background and her upbringing brought her to her current mentality on money. Also, I applaud the amount of guts it takes to come onto a public podcast with a fairly large audience. However, at the same time, I wasn't too happy with the conclusion of this episode.
I wholeheartedly agree with @lightbreeze183. I believe Serena's attitude + controlling nature isn't healthy and the fact that whenever Ramit was directing any questions towards Nate she jumped in to interrupt, was irritating. I personally was looking forward to hearing Ramit dive deeper into the rent scenario and discuss more of the hypocritical ideologies Serena was speaking out about.
I was also honestly awaiting to hear the words "Prenuptial Agreement" today too. I wonder how Serena would have reacted. And as DUDE DUDE said, it's not fair that Serena's money is her money and that Nate's money is "their" money once he starts his role as a doctor.
I hope Nate starts to take a stand and start to be more financially literate to realize the type of situation he is in because as you said, these discussions will only become more painful later down the line. I also hope Serena starts to proactively try to change her controlling behavior now before Nate becomes a doctor so it can become easier for the both of them when the new situation comes. I am no financial guru myself but the thought that Nate could be taken advantage of financially and clearly mentally really bothers me...
Thank you for the episode Ramit, it was indeed enlightening and thought provoking.
So true, both needed to take responsibility for the positioning in the relationship.
I think one of the fears is, many women get dumped once their husbands finish their degrees and get into high paying jobs. So many women put their BF/husbands through school only to be dumped.
She will never go for a prenup, and he will never demand it. She has deep seated issues with money.
I was also very upset when she interrupted Nate. She doesn’t listen!!
She is NOT the one bro! "Don't do it. Reconsider, read some liteture on the subject..."
Run Nate!!!
Get out quick Nate, you will regret it id you don’t. She’s so selfish….her money is her money till you earn more!
HER money is HER money. HIS money is THEIR money typical 🤦🏾♂️
Not until they are married. He's getting more out of the relationship most likely. She cooks, she cleans, probably does his laundry, provides in the bedroom, all so he can focus on completely his residency. and now she's paying 60% of the rent. And they are not even married....lol.
She's taking on a massive risk imo. But men really want a woman to do all this, and eventually dump her after he starts making 300k...
Serena is smart and being very careful. So yes, her money is her money until they are married and there is a legal safety net. And as far as his money, he doesn't have hardly anything right now.
From a logical stand point, it makes sense for her to put in the investment now, cooking, cleaning, pay 60% of the rent, in hopes that when they get married and he starts making 31k per month, it would cover everything, and they could invest efficiently.
Yet most men would still call her a gold digger, because why should a woman expect anything but struggle love from a man that can't make ends meet...right?
@@voguehaven5154 She can pay 60% of the expenses in a relationship she sees longevity in or 100% of her expenses and be single. They are both benefiting from this weird dynamic. If she had better relationship prospects (a man who's already bringing it in), she'd most likely opt for that.
At 26:25 , when you said you were surprised that she didn't ask him about his student loan debt. It seems to me that she views that as HIS debt. So she isn't concerned about it because it's HIS responsibility to pay it off. I get the sense that she views her money as her money, and his money as their money. (Even tho the debt directly reduces how much money he can spend on her)
Maybe a joint bank account would fix this? But even then, I would assume she would only agree to join bank accounts when he is putting in more capital than her. I'm not sure what would change her mindset to realize that they are a team, not rivals.
I guess it's just gender roles then? The male should invest more because she suffers the reproductive cost of having a baby, so the additional male investment offsets the cost of female reproduction. idk lol
She won’t change until she gets over the “my money is my money your money is our money & my debt is our debt your debt is your debt” mindset.
Oh yeah, Serena for sure views Nate's debt as HIS debt, and not something that she is responsible for at all. I was extremely surprised Ramit didn't probe into that, because that gets to the core of the issue. She doesn't view them as a team. She thinks that Nate should be shouldering the burden of taking care of her extras while he is struggling financially, meanwhile she doesn't feel any responsibility to help him with necessities that he can barely afford. While internalized gender roles and entitlement can explain *why* Serena feels the way that she does, that's not justification for treating someone unfairly. Especially someone you say you love.
I highly doubt that Serena would agree to a joint bank account until Nate is making more money than her. This is evidenced by the fact that her "generosity" extends to lowering the rent to 60/40 (not 65/35 which would be proportional to their incomes). I'm glad that Ramit called that out at the end, because that's not even fair, let alone being generous.
same here! it was obvious she does not care about that debt because she doesn't feel its her at all... so she is in for when the money comes in, but she is out for when its time to pay debts
but it is his debt. And she shouldn't see it as her debt unless she marries him. Its not her responsibility, literally.
Serena now: MY money
Future Serena: OUR money
i wish these were labeled as part 1 and part 2
20:26 Serena and Nate are about to make another $300,000 / year. What would you do if you were in their shoes?
Pay off the the debt as fast as possible. Maybe spend less than they are now. And move to a nicer place when they’ve made a huge dent on the debt and saved/invested more. All this before children come into the picture.
@@ElijahHalliburton I agree with some of your comment, but their income is about to TRIPLE -- why should they spend less?
@@ramitsethi I knew you’d disagree, I just think that getting rid of that debt much faster would really help them more. Especially since she has to check off every box.
Just my opinion.
@@ElijahHalliburton I think the "binge-and-purge" mindset in this comment is one of the biggest problems with money psychology today. It's like our relationship with food, with the dieting mindset versus trying to make health-conscious decisions regularly. Living uncomfortably to "get out from under debt" implies that money is the most important thing on the priority list, above quality of life, even if it's temporary. The value of having a system for money to go into and facilitate a rich life is so that money doesn't become the centerpiece of discussion and stress. If you obsess and live frugally to pay off your debt every time you accrue it, you will develop an unhealthy relationship with your finances. The reality is that having debt is fine. As long as you're halfway mindful of it, you will be OK on the way and in the end. If these two start handling this educational debt with purging-like behavior, it will certainly influence how they manage money in the future when they take on the debt of buying a house or starting a business or other expensive endeavors where you start in the red. I would highly recommend you also think about that with your own finances. I am a medical trainee going into neurosurgery. I will be making a resident's salary for 7 years of residency. I have made peace with the reality of my training debt. I'm going to chip away at it as best I can during this time, but I'm not going to change my values or live more uncomfortably than I need to because that would make me unhappy.
If the only reason she came to an epiphany was because the numbers looked “pretty fucked up “then Nate my friend you have a lot more problems ahead of you. She isn’t oblivious she is just selfish. Let her go Nate. Youll save yourself a world of pain.
She is a control freak. It stems from her childhood. She would be controlling about everything, not just money.
run Nate run
Would be great to revisit this couple and get an update and see whats changed in a yr, if anything.
tbh this was hard to watch. I think finance is so important to talk about and this is the first episode I've seen where I really think they should end things. I honestly get the vibe that the only reason she is staying with him because of his earning potential. Not saying she's a bad person but I don't get the vibe that she cares about him or is in a place to think about the other person or be supportive. She needs to likely seek some therapy before trying to be a partner and Nate also needs to work on asserting himself some more because he's digging himself in a deeper hole financially only for her and is too uncomfortable to push back.
It’s “yours” and “mine” before marriage and “ours” after marriage. So many comments on this without acknowledging this very simple premise. I they had been married, then it would have been very different. That point was not addressed at all.
I agree with the conclusion. It’s simple to write down what 50% is for each and thats what you contribute to rent. That’s a very challenging thing to apply though.
I hope their behaviors keep improving and growing together
I sure hope Nate has moved on from her. This is such a bad situation all around.
I loved this episode! I feel like @ramitsethi did a great job navigating their problems and getting them to realize what needs to be done, from an emotional perspective. It would've been super easy to do the video in 10 min by just saying "split things 65/35" and be done, but digging this deep will certainly be better for them in the long run. No hate on Serena or Nate, I love that they have shown great progress in just 1hr. Great job!
Love this!
Great & very enlightening episode. This episode will help break the gender biases when it comes to payment of shared expenses. While I myself watch all episodes / hear old episodes, I've started sending this to my SO to ensure that she will learn from this. Great job.
Nate, if you see this comment, broooooooo PLEEEEEEEEEEEEEZ get either a bullet-proof pre-nup OR drop her RIGHT NOW! She is a classic gold digger and would drop you in a heartbeat and get half of your future salary and assets while quitting her job, citing she "supported" you throughout your medical career (which she OBVIOUSLY isn't doing) and her hardships throughout her life. This is a textbook case of a gold digger just waiting it out till you reach your finish line. Make NO mistake. She will leave you the moment you apply her own "current" rules on her in 3 years. She doesn't see you as a life partner. You're just a tag along till she finds someone who earns more. A segway, but I believe based on these two interveiws and her ruthless nature, she will have three divorces and might be able to bag an eight or nine figure guy by the time she is in her early-mid 50s and then she will "settle down" - whatever that means by that time.
And to be honest, $80k not a lot of money - a number she repeated a LOT and kept throwing at your face, calling it "SIGNIFICANTLY" more than what you earn. In my industry, quarterly bonuses are over 200k. Her entire salary is a high end dinner tab in NYC. Not something to brag about. In her priority list, you were nowhere there. Not even at the botton. Her "person" was not on her list. I can't even wrap my head around this. This is a wrap unfortunately... I am from NYC and I have never seen such a cunning and ruthless person in over two decades tha I have lived here. She is a an angry wolf in sheeps clothing. Acting cute when it suits her and daggers out the moment she doesnt feel like it.
I really hope you find someone who actually supports you Nate! All the best and early congratulations on your future graduation (I may not see this video ever again - I can't stand Serena - hopefully by this time you guys are not together).
Amen to that!
Incel