Please remember: These are real people who had the courage to come on my podcast and ask for help. Would you be willing to come on this podcast and share every detail of your financial life? Feel free to leave comments based on what you think, but remember that we are here to help in a supportive way, not to demean and criticize.
This comment section is being so unfair to Serena . Being a first gen kid is so stressful, especially if you have no money, it's very easy to develop a complex. He's obviously from a more secure financial background than her so it's easier for him to expect generosity. If she's makes 80k now, her maximum income will probably be 100k/120k in her lifetime whereas his will be 300k in the next year. For the rest of their lives, he will always be making 3x more than her. Everyone can say "oh when he's a doctor he'll take care of her" but you have no idea what the future holds. There are many women in this world who financially helped their boyfriends out for years, through medical school, risky careers, new businesses, just to get left the second their men were wealthy enough to pull a younger/more conventionally attractive woman (Serena is pretty I'm not coming for her looks at all). She's smart to be hesitant to support anyone, no matter how much she loves him or how sweet he is. The future is not guaranteed no matter how much would say it is. I think drafting a healthy pre-nup for both of them now would be really good for her mental health and his probably too. People as smart as them feel comforted by stuff in writing.
@@penthousewhippiti will have to disagree here I think the comments section although very aggressive make a point. The point being that she is failing to take her partners financial position in consideration. She wants to go out and eat and take him but wants him to pay when he has no money? That is extremely inconsiderate. I don’t know how this relationship will work unless she does a lot of work. It can work but it will be on her. As for the prenup I think that would be best but would be interesting to see her reaction.
With all due respect, I don’t think they are meant for each other. Watched both episodes, and I’m so so sorry to think this. But that’s my conclusion. Also Nate, if when you need the woman the most she is that selfish, I think you should find a partner that is supportive and accommodating. Serena you are also not ready for marriage, at all. I am not even going to begin on this one. Thanks!
Am I the only person who felt that Serena was only willing to consider changing because she knew that Nate would eventually be earning much more? What if Nate wasn't a resident? Obviously this isn't the focus of the show; but it seemed like Ramit had to continuously refocus her on Nate eventually earning 300k just to get her to be less selfish with her money. She should be ok splitting things 65/35 with no expectation of him ever earning more. It presented as "I'm only doing this because I know I come out on top at the end of this." The fact that she settled at 60/40 and said she wanted to be generous tells me she still doesn't get it, she learned that she was being messed up, but still wanted to make sure she was "winning." I'm disgusted. I'm not trying to be nasty or belittle these people, but I cannot fathom treating someone, you love, this way. I truly wish her mindset changes. I wish the best for them, maybe they truly love eachother, but this isn't what love looks like... this is what a business/contract negotiation looks like.
A lot of shoulds in this comment. She isn’t dating someone who’s not gonna eventually earn more than her. Not sure why she should do anything for a hypothetical scenario.
Crazy how she understands that Nate is using up 97% of his income on THEIR fixed expenses but she is still asking him for her $3000 back. From what?! Theres literally nothing left...
He is going to leave her as soon as he gets that degree. You can see it already. My wife's a Nurse and she sees these new doctors with the people that supported them through their school and residency and as soon as that is over, that Doctor leaves their old partner.
@@Playingwithproxies, exactly. She is more of an added source of nagging stress he doesn't need. She gives me crazy spoiled brat vibes. Harassing him about money for a trip she basically forced him to take, constantly. Nagging him as soon as he walks in the door... Screw that.
I agree, it's her trip that she is dragging him on then also asking him to pay the $3k. Also, he was okay with living in a cheaper place but she needs to rent from a more expensive place yet still asks him to unproportionally pay rent. I hope he figures out what a monster she is and he leaves her soon.
Selina says nate is her "person" but actions speak louder than words. Her actions scream greed and selfishness. He is spending 97% of his income on fixed costs and she STILL wants him to pay for the dinner out OR thank her for paying for half of the bill.. 😂😂😂
@voguehaven5154 also are you unable to see how nate is talking how guilty and shameful he's feeling just because he thinks he should pay for everything as a man but unable to but In return he gets the type of women who is selfish
She has 50k in debt. I don't think she's selfish, but she has a whole lot of anxiety around money. It's good they are addressing this now to ask the hard questions...and to determine if they have a shot in the long term.
I felt there was an elephant in the room that really wasn't addressed and it's that marriage was looming. And how these money mindsets could destroy a marriage. Calling someone your person is cute but Nate is going to be her Husband. In a marriage its rarely 50/50. Each couple contributes differently given the season of marriage that they are in. A just us season. Two kids under two season. A parent needs care season. You lost your job season. And on and on. What makes it bearable is knowing you have a life partner that will stand by you through it all. Serena doesn't seem ready for the enviable turbulence marriage will bring. Her controlling ways will suffocate Nate inside a marriage. Nate seems way too passive or just too exhausted to fight her. Which is the beginning of the end in my opinion. Clearly, they love each other. It seems like they still have time to right the ship. Nate needs to speak up more and express his needs. Serena should continue working on her money beliefs. They both should get excited about a financial bright future that they can create together.
I agree. With the focus so much on split finances, it was never brought up about combining finances once they are married. Once you combine finances the whole splitting the rent and bills thing goes away. Unless they are still planning to keep their finances split once they are married?
I’d say they’ll never get around to joint accounts which is the norm for me and many marrieds. But I have a lot of former colleagues (I’m retired now so I’m in that frugally raised demographic) who haven’t joint accounts across the board like us. They have maybe a joint house account and then individual “my own money” accounts. This is all a bit alien to me. Splitting a cheque is only something I do eating out with friends not, with my husband. Each to their own I know and I’m not judging but I am judging Nate and Serena as I don’t see this working out as she’s too rigidly set in her control freak mindset and lacks insight.
When Nate makes $300,000, I guarantee you that Serena will have zero pushback with having a joint account with Nate with access to “their [her]” funds.
If I’m in Med School, dealing with long hours of class, studying, the last thing I want as soon as I get home is my old lady running her mouth. I don’t want to hear it! Men don’t want these fantasy driven idealized relationships women get often ruminate over. We want PEACE! ☮️
Nate these are the red flags. 1. Although Ramit said the ratio to share the expenses should be 65:35 she doesn't agree & makes you pay more for rent. For dinner you need to pay 35% instead you're paying 50% 2. She says you are her Special Person but not when it comes to money 3. She wants you to visit her parents but doesn't want to sponsor you 4. When you start earning, she wants you to pay for everything, but now she doesn't want to support you financially. 5. You want to move out of this neighborhood as the rent has gone up, but she wants to stay here for status. She doesn't care about your financial burden. 6. She loves controlling. This woman is a GOLD DIGGER. Run as fast as you can. Even when you earn that gigantic salary, it wont be enough for her. She'll RUIN you Nate. There are many women who will love you for what you are & will support you.
@@allinterests287she is expecting the money she is spending now to be rapped back once he has a great income. She wants him to pay for everything when that happens so she is in fact beings gold digger because she will keep her income and also get his indirectly.
@@SaintsandSushi nah...if she is going to be a stay home mom, he will have to pay for everything. She's not a gold digger. If he doesn't like it, he should find an educated woman on the same level as himself. However, its seems like men don't want that path either. What they want is a poor, subservient women who demands nothing and gives everything while he walks over her. That's called slavery...and surprise, no woman is up for that.
I don't think she's a gold digger but the other points were salient. I think she has insecurities with money and cares more about that burden than his mental state. She's not working from an 'us' mentality but only from a 'me' mentality.
@@voguehaven5154 absolutely agree with you that men just want a subservient he can control and who has no say in anything. However, what makes you assume that the woman in this video is not educated? She is making more than decent money and is able to afford a lot on her salary. She is a college graduate just like him. Nothing gave me the impression that he was more educated than her…he just happens to be on a field that pays major salaries to anyone…even people who are not college graduates who just take a 6 week course online. And I very much doubt she will be doing the whole stay at home thing and not have an income of her own….she is way too controlling to lose that kinda of power.
60/40 division with 65/35 earning is neither generous nor fair and Serena saying „sugar baby“ showed her true attitude. This talk has made some progress for Serena, but she is not there yet
There’s ZERO progress. Members of the “Dark Triad,” like Serena, are like the Terminator. They can’t be argued with, bargained with or reasoned with. They don’t feel shame, or guilt, pity or remorse. They absolutely will not stop, EVER. Until they have conquered you by any means necessary. The telltale clue is she couldn’t bring herself to go 65/35 in their “revised” parameters. To her, that would means he got over on her. This is a contest for her: A conquest. He is her accessory. Her means to a luxurious end. And he’s so hopelessly smitten he’s following behind her like a lost puppy dog.
@@ian_ford to say there was zero progress is objectively not true. Even as someone who is not a fan of Serena (I think Nate should/will eventually leave her), she was self-aware enough to be honest about who was and see that she needed to stop imposing her need for control onto Nick's finances. That said, I don't think the progress was/is enough to sustain a healthy relationship.
"I don't think I've ever really thought of Nate as... ok, 'this is someone that is a very important part of my life" - Serena about her fiancé. I really wish you the best Nate, after 1 1/4 episodes I cannot fathom watching any further. I've seen enough.
To be fair, I think she meant she didn’t think the second part- that her spending didn’t reflect that she is saying he is one of the most important parts of her life.
Don’t worry Nate once you’re earning she will find something else to be miserable about. If Nate was my son I’d loose my mind, his parents must be horrified at this engagement
I hope Nate can eventually find HIS person. At the very least, I hope he gets a prenup. I don’t understand how Serena can treat her fiancé like he’s just a roommate. Yes, she has to foot the bill more often, but does it matter where the money is coming from when you’re about to get married? Will he still “owe” her when they’re married? They’re supposed to be a team, it’s not about who owes who. Not that it should matter, but Nate will eventually earn a boatload and he’ll be able to contribute a lot more. Their situation is temporary, but she’s failing to hold him down like a fiancé should. It’s kinda selfish and makes Serena look unprepared for marriage.
I just came across a more fitting quote that fits this episode: “people who love us - care about how they make us feel.” Nate - good luck with finding YOUR person! Serena - listen and be slow to speak. Take care!
You've almost become a relationship therapist as I bet most divorces end up being due to financial disagreements. Very enlightening talk, I hope you do more! Real people, real ordinary financial issues.
This stretches beyond their finances to their relationship as a whole, which I am afraid seems to need a lot of work. I sincerely hope that they get both individual and relationship counseling before getting married. There are a lot of big questions that were left unexplored, the biggest one being what is their relationship philosophy? From what I've seen, Serena doesn't have a team philosophy. She's out to get as much as she can for herself. And that's it. This is evidenced by her personal entitlement (that she deserves to be treated generously by Nate, but she isn't treating him fairly let alone generously), lack of empathy toward Nate's circumstances, and her lack of understanding of what is a reasonable. No, asking him to "treat" her is not reasonable when he is spending 97% of his income on the bare essentials. No, asking him to go on an expensive vacation to visit her family is not reasonable, and it is absolutely ridiculous for her to have given her fiance a loan that she is now nagging him to pay back. Don't get me wrong, I grew up in a poor and struggling family. I have some empathy toward Serena's anxiety about money. I have money anxiety of my own. However, I could not imagine treating my life partner the way that she treats hers. I'm very much a team-oriented person toward my life partner. Sometimes I'm going to give more (financially, emotionally, etc) and other times they're going to give more. That's because we're a team and the point of a relationship isn't for things to be 50/50. It's for our team to be functional and for us to do the best we can in life--together. And that philosphy transcends money. This is definitely not going to be fixed with more money. It's not going to be fixed by getting married. It needs to be fixed with hard conversations. Additionally, I wish that we had heard more of Nate's side of the story. He seems like he could be more amenable to a team philosophy--as in, we're a team and it's you + me against the world. And if that's the case, then there is a core incompatibility in the relationship and I'm honestly not sure why they are still together. Of course, when the shoe is on the other foot, Serena will expect things to be different when Nate is making more money. That's consistent with her out to get as much as she can for herself philosophy. What happens if for whatever reason he can't work anymore? Is she going to become resentful and leave? Sounds like she might, and that's exactly the problem here. They need to do some serious work on their relationship. I sincerely wish that they dig deep enough and do that work, otherwise I'm unfortunately not hopeful for their long-term outlook.
Yeah I don't think Serena realises how selfish she's being, but also how controlling(neurotic?) she is to have control/relief right now. The loan thing is really ridiculous. I think she should be paying more than 66% of the rent, perhaps like 90%(though in a vacuum, splitting 50/50 seems an ok approach- if Nate doesn't go destitute). But really splitting expenses seems really silly. It's almost like they are planning to be with each other only temporarily. It's also surreal how obviously poor Nate is and how unaware Serena is about this. How can you treat someone this poorly? Even with the loan, can't she just accept he will pay her back in like a month after being a doctor. With for example ~10% interest then Serena is better off not badgering him about it until then...
I agree. Their finance is similar to me and my partners finance. I earn 6 figures, he earns $35k a year as he’s still getting his masters. We live in the Bay Area which is very expensive. I pay larger portion of our expenses because I understand he cannot afford nor it isn’t fair for him to spend evenly. I also grew up poor but thankfully I learned to manage my finance and have a strict budget. She’s definitely inconsiderate. I don’t think they should even get married especially that finance is the biggest cause of divorce. She needs to put her self in his shoes. They should work as a partner, a team. There’s def a lot of work here…
On the flip, I have zero empathy for her anxiety around money. I grew up poor too, I’m 27 today and I have yet to take a vacation as an adult. Outside of quality work clothes, and steel toe boots, I haven’t even bought casual clothes or shoes for fashion. Same clothes and shoes the last 3-4 years. There’s no in between. You either have money concerns and live accordingly or you don’t. No half ass non sense.
Rents went up, he suggested moving, she said no. She wanted him to meet her family, he said he couldn't afford it, she forced him and "lent him" $3000. Then she refuses to split the rent fairly AND makes him go out to dinners and pick up the check. She wants to be in control but not the responsibility around it. All this said, I think she and Nate were brave to come on here and unpack their thinking, so I really hope she's changed her thinking and they're doing much better.
Ultimately, Nate needs to figure out what he values in a partnership and whether or not he wants to compromise on those values with Serena. The values of being honest with oneself and fairness come to mind.
Agree. I worried for him when she said in Ep 1 that rent was split the way it was because she has stuff to pay for. It seemed to not regard his needs! They are human and complicated, and I appreciated them being open. Sharing really took courage.
I wish them the best, but it’s extremely rare that people can genuinely change. I was absolutely astounded when she said she wasn’t thrilled about having to pay an extra $160 a month for rent, when the other person is her fiancé. That’s someone who just isn’t ready for marriage. I know $80k isn’t rich, but if you’re only paying ~$1k a month in rent, $160 is a fairly trivial amount, literally less than $2k a year. I hope she can overcome these issues, but this is about as simply as it gets. Wait for a few years until he’s on $400k, she’s on $120k, and one wants a vacation house and the other wants to save more, or one wants to fly business and the other wants to stick with coach. The problems don’t change even when you have a high income, if anything it exposes differences even more when you’re not as driven by scarcity.
My issue with the reluctance to pay the extra $160 towards rent was that she was not considering how much he was paying for her every time he picked up the check when they went out. In NYC it is easily over $160 a month if they go out even every other weekend.
During residency, we made it work on $40k salary, sharing x-large bowls of pho because we were poor. Me working to clean houses to save on rent, making him lunches and keeping track of everything else. During fellowship, we made it work again with $60k salary with me being a stay home mom. Now, as an attending, sure $300k sounds like plenty, but after taxes and mortgage and loan repayment, its not the $30k per month like you would imagine. We still live below our means, maxing out all possible retirement accounts and getting ready to try to buy our nicer house. Being married is team work, it means using your 80k income to help him get rid of his student loans. It means him sharing his 300k income. There's no your debt, your bill, your this or that.
Yep, we’ve been together 25 years from having nothing to the point of not taking any honeymoon and taking the bus to overnight fast-food shifts to take classes during the day to a single executive income where just an annual bonus is more than we dreamed of ever making in a year. What’s been the same in life through this whole arc is that everything we have is ours together and we are a team. Every career decision, debt payment, or late-night studying or feeding babies has been something we did to advance together as a team, not asking ourselves what would be equal or fair between us but just what can I be doing to make things best for my teammate. I think young people considering marriage would do well to consider how any systems they have for money management would work when something like cancer knocks. I would hope the plan isn’t to present a bill for services rendered and income covered when suddenly your person isn’t able to contribute in any way, potentially for a very long time. Life is challenging enough without setting your spouse as a financial opponent.
@@laurenm.6320They have to work together. If not for working together my husband and I wouldn't have what we have. When he was diagnosed with cancer in 2022 I put my head down and kept going to work making sure I maintained my job and thankfully his job was very accommodating and allowed him to work as much as he could so he didn't have to go on short term disability. Now he's gone and I'd happily give anything for him to still be here including and beyond having to bear the brunt of our finances (which he did for me so I could go to school). Some people are clueless and allow their own hangups to ruin something good.
Serena is too controlling, not in tune with her partner, and does not show much compassion. She doesn’t want to help for the short term but has her eye on the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow once Nate begins is career. Run Nate …
I feel bad for Nate wasting his 20s being with someone so self-centered. I can't imagine coming home to someone berating me to pay them back for a trip to visit their parents of all things. Wild.
I was so excited to see Serena willing to admit fault and try to be better, but the update was so disappointing. However I’m not surprised. We’re only seeing a tiny fragment of their lives, so it’s unfair to judge their relationship, but chances are, these issues snowball, they don’t miraculously disappear. Honestly, Serenas control of money seems to be more important than Nate-her “person”. What’s sadder is that Nate is acting like a man who loves his girl. He’s willing to give her his last dollar, but she struggles to just be fair-not even generous-just fair and equitable. It is unfair to judge people based on such short videos without knowing them at all. But Nate, you can do better my dude. Your girlfriend has prioritized control of money over you and that’s sad. She’s willing to watch you struggle so she can sleep soundly as shes able to save 10k while you scrape by. Think about that. You are too generous to a fault and she is too shrewd and controlling to a fault. I don’t think there’s a middle ground. She’s the kind of person who says “what’s mine is mine and what’s yours is mine too”. Best advice I ever got, “choose someone who reflects who you are inside”. Nate, you seem like a very generous person, I think you deserve at least that.
making him pay more for rent because she wanted to live there, and now he spends more on gas $600/month on gas doesn't compensate for the $160 dollar more in rent. This is crazy to me
Brutal to listen to. So many issues here and red flags. They should not be even talking about marriage unless they are aligned and going in the same direction. She is controlling and manipulative, He is a pushover who does not set healthy boundaries. Good luck to these two. If she is going on about him owing her for a trip that she is forcing him to take and he said that he cannot afford then making him grovel at her feet, how can he feel "love" towards her or anything other than resentment. If she is not willing to help him for huge potential future then she is not the right person for him. He needs to set boundaries!!
This is the saddest follow up we ever had on this show. She is behaving like this relationship is not based on trust, love and care. It's some sort of just an investment for her. Nate, she loves you, but God forbit you will fall ill and will need love and support. You will go through the same struggle with her. Please, don't get married. She will not be there for you in the future, same as she is not there for you now.
I think she is controlling but not only that, she is also somewhat enjoying having the power in this relationship. She is more outspoken than Nate, who is more towards shy and less talkative. She is confrontational and he is more calm and doesn’t like confrontation. It’s like she is the man in the relationship and Nate let her be it. She sets the rules, all because her making more somewhat makes her feel more powerful. To me she is using him in some ways, I’m sure they love each other, but …. I don’t know! Honestly, I don’t see pure love here.
I really, really hope Serena has learnt from this, and it's not just lip service. It is a temporary situation, and it would be interesting to see the dynamics when Nate will be making more money. Could you bring them back on the show please, Ramit?! I didn't like the sugar baby joke and glad you caught it, Ramit.
It was very demeaning, I didn’t appreciate that joke either. Bet she wouldn’t appreciate being called a gold digger or sugar baby when he is making more than her and paying more bills/date nights.
The sugar baby comment was awful. Serena was all, "I'm going to be more relational, less transactional, and less controlling." I cheered for her! Then... "I'll make you my sugarbaby." 🤦♀️🤦♀️🤦♀️
She’s not ready for marriage, yours mine and ours, girl! And he needs to have a backbone and get on a budget. He should know when/how much he can pay her back, be it $15/week or month or whatever. He should be on a better budget. And tell her NO when dinner or whatever is not in his budget.
Why should he have to pay her back? He’s her person remember? You don’t do that to your significant others. There’s no division. It’s a very selfish mindset.
@@lindalinda9441 Totally agree. If they're planning on keeping finances apart for the rest of their life, fine, but she plans on joint accounts when he makes more= =
why are they beating around the bush? Serena should just pay for the entire rent. He can pay for the food/going out. 5 years later, he gunna have more than enough to support her. Regardless it still a red flag. Run away Nate. Best advice for you.
She only agreed to making the current rent arrangement more equitable when she acknowledged that in less than 5 years it will really benefit her when he makes 3x as much. When they go out he will, at best, split the check or pay for either drinks or dinner - even though she makes almost twice as much as him. And she’s STILL not willing to go 65/35 even though that would more appropriately match their incomes. I really hope he comes back at her with the same attitude when he’s the one making 300k. If she’s not willing to be proportional now, he shouldn’t be willing to later. I hope she listens to this and realizes how selfish and entitled she sounds.
I sense something a little more insidious bc I dated a girl exactly like this. On the surface, you want to applaud her for her honesty. But these kind of people are masters at weaponizing their “honesty” They often use it as an excuse/crutch-but the thing is, they never stop doing the thing that’s hurting you. They hide under a cloak by doing very small acts of kindness (bare minimum) to project an image of being caring to everyone else: to friends, family, coworkers, colleagues, animal shelters, to everyone under the sun except you. Poor guy. I genuinely hope he comes to his senses, because sweeter, and frankly, hotter chicks will be throwing themselves at him in the future. Good luck Nate, rooting for you.
I immediately thought covert narcissist when she opened her mouth.. on BOTH episodes. She is extremely self centered, selfish, cold and has no business being in ANY relationship. Could you imagine her as a mother? I can’t even imagine her as a friend.
I totally empathize with Serena's financial trauma, as I am also the daughter of immigrants who were very financially conservative. I agree that changing my money psychology is very difficult. Ramit's podcasts and book have helped me a lot in this sense! I'm curious about if there were other parts of this conversation in which Ramit tried to dig into why Nate hasn't been advocating for himself? I think it's great that Ramit was addressing Serena's deep-rooted issues, but Nate not using his voice make me feel like this dynamic will continue to be unsustainable.
I don’t think it has anything to do with being an offspring of an immigrant. I am an immigrant myself and I am financially conservative, but I am not selfish towards with life partner.
I think Serena has real fear around her ongoing security and a fear of abandonment. She's worked hard to get where she is and she doesn't want to blow it by making bad mistakes in love and money. I don't know if she feels really secure that Nate will be there for her in 3 years, whether conscious or subconscious. I think these people are brave being so vulnerable with Ramit and we should have compassion for her and her subconscious fears.
She might be thinking that he may leave her for someone in the future that will be going after him once he makes more money. That may be why she wants the $3,000 back. Why aren't they married and sharing everything?
For people like Nate to exist, people like Serena need to exist and vice-versa.....no amount of money is going to change the underlying personality issues that plague both of them but they are probably comfortable with the coexisting dynamics
Given these new “rules”, she has not internalized what generosity is. She simply doesn’t FEEL generous. People who are generous don’t need RULES. People who are generous WANT to make their spouse/significant other as happy as they can, she does not. I appreciate her honesty but her actual feelings are the reasons this marriage will not work.
Im married now to the love of my life. When we met, he was completely relationship avoidant, had commitment issues, and deep seated self doubt about being able to be a good partner. Everyone told me to "run"- but i had a lot of love and patience to give this person, and im so so glad that i was understanding and worked through his stuff with him. We are so happy now. Hes an incredible partner and husband. This couples situation has a different issue, but i honestly believe that people can and do change. They have the potential to have a beautiful relationship and marriage if they continue to be open to growing together and changing those mindsets that are holding them back from thriving together. Lets stop running when things get hard.
I love that for you guys but confidence can be built with love, while selfishness is much harder to change. I really wish change happens for this couple otherwise it'll be a tough life.
Masterful! First episode, I had some level of resentment towards Serena’s perspectives, but after this episode, and due to your careful needling and question asking towards Sabrina that has leant to much needed introspection, I’ve come to realize that she is after all… human. Understanding fixes everything. Communication is a vaccine for resentment and most problems. You sir inspire me to be a better communicator and listener with this one episode. Take this win!
Since they are engaged I kept waiting for a discussion of whether the $3000 would still be owed if they were married. It just seemed like a lot of things weren't addressed directly enough.
I can imagine a future where they're spending an aniversary together with a kid and she would still ask about the $3000 loan. She seems worse than a creditor. It's like marrying a loan shark lmao. I know I joke about this, but the power dynamics change when you lend people money. I feel like Nate understands his position and knows he couldn't afford it to begin with. She could have accepted his financial status and went alone or if she really wants him to come then accept the responsibility of fronting the money for the trip as a gift. If the shoe was on the other foot and nate was making twice her income, I would not doubt he would just take her without any question about money.
After watching this and after already having watching the first half, and im really disappointed in everyone saying how Nate needs to dump Serena right away. It takes so much to not only get out in front of a bunch of people, but to be honest about the negativity in ones life AND be open to changing. Serena has shown she deserves a chance to show Nate she can grow as a person. Nate needs to learn to enforce his own boundaries, He has let her get away with this. If Serena can to learn to let go and go with the flow, her life will be less stressful. If both of them can learn to grow and change together, this finance issue will just be another ripple in the water. Stay blessed out there guys! 💚
I relate to Serena so much. I also fixate on crossing things off my list and making plans daily, monthly, yearly. I've been married for two years and it's been extremely difficult. I never realized how much control I needed until I got married. I wanted everything to feel "fair" ALL THE TIME. I feel my husband is Nate-- very patient, kind, and looking for respect. I've grown so much as a person and learning to let go of control. The last 6 months have been so much better as I am able to let go of ego and learning to be more generous. Your marriage will work because you are honest with yourselves and I see the love that you share for each other. Keep having the difficult conversations, speak with each other with kindness through an empathetic lens. Be proactive in loving each other.
At 26:25 , when you said you were surprised that she didn't ask him about his student loan debt. It seems to me that she views that as HIS debt. So she isn't concerned about it because it's HIS responsibility to pay it off. I get the sense that she views her money as her money, and his money as their money. (Even tho the debt directly reduces how much money he can spend on her) Maybe a joint bank account would fix this? But even then, I would assume she would only agree to join bank accounts when he is putting in more capital than her. I'm not sure what would change her mindset to realize that they are a team, not rivals. I guess it's just gender roles then? The male should invest more because she suffers the reproductive cost of having a baby, so the additional male investment offsets the cost of female reproduction. idk lol
Oh yeah, Serena for sure views Nate's debt as HIS debt, and not something that she is responsible for at all. I was extremely surprised Ramit didn't probe into that, because that gets to the core of the issue. She doesn't view them as a team. She thinks that Nate should be shouldering the burden of taking care of her extras while he is struggling financially, meanwhile she doesn't feel any responsibility to help him with necessities that he can barely afford. While internalized gender roles and entitlement can explain *why* Serena feels the way that she does, that's not justification for treating someone unfairly. Especially someone you say you love. I highly doubt that Serena would agree to a joint bank account until Nate is making more money than her. This is evidenced by the fact that her "generosity" extends to lowering the rent to 60/40 (not 65/35 which would be proportional to their incomes). I'm glad that Ramit called that out at the end, because that's not even fair, let alone being generous.
same here! it was obvious she does not care about that debt because she doesn't feel its her at all... so she is in for when the money comes in, but she is out for when its time to pay debts
I can't even watch the rest of this, I cringe when Serena opens up her mouth. Good luck Nate, I hope you find someone that truly loves and respects who you are.
@@josephj6521 Not just that, Joseph. I mean in terms of commitment to making the project work. Communication is the key. There must be no taboo subjects of conversation.
@@andrewrobinson2565 its never 100/100. There are times where one person carries the weight/load more than the other. If you think its 100/100, you have no clue what a 30 year marriage consists of. Sound like you are an incel.
Totally agree. My wife and I have been together 33 years, married for 30. Neither of us have ever kept track of our income, savings, investments, etc. separately. And neither of us has ever uttered the phrase "when are you going to pay me back?"
This was a long week to wait for part 2 Lol! I had mixed feelings listening to this one after feeling angry for Nate in the last one. The concept of "Money Psychology" is awesome - hearing this for the first time and hearing others' perspectives on this was intriguing. I want to start by saying I understand Serena's background and her upbringing brought her to her current mentality on money. Also, I applaud the amount of guts it takes to come onto a public podcast with a fairly large audience. However, at the same time, I wasn't too happy with the conclusion of this episode. I wholeheartedly agree with @lightbreeze183. I believe Serena's attitude + controlling nature isn't healthy and the fact that whenever Ramit was directing any questions towards Nate she jumped in to interrupt, was irritating. I personally was looking forward to hearing Ramit dive deeper into the rent scenario and discuss more of the hypocritical ideologies Serena was speaking out about. I was also honestly awaiting to hear the words "Prenuptial Agreement" today too. I wonder how Serena would have reacted. And as DUDE DUDE said, it's not fair that Serena's money is her money and that Nate's money is "their" money once he starts his role as a doctor. I hope Nate starts to take a stand and start to be more financially literate to realize the type of situation he is in because as you said, these discussions will only become more painful later down the line. I also hope Serena starts to proactively try to change her controlling behavior now before Nate becomes a doctor so it can become easier for the both of them when the new situation comes. I am no financial guru myself but the thought that Nate could be taken advantage of financially and clearly mentally really bothers me... Thank you for the episode Ramit, it was indeed enlightening and thought provoking.
I think one of the fears is, many women get dumped once their husbands finish their degrees and get into high paying jobs. So many women put their BF/husbands through school only to be dumped.
Ramit - I absolutely love the little exercise you had Serena do with the anthropologist and the clipboard! I think it's incredibly helpful to think through what change actually looks like and how to work towards goals from an action perspective, especially for someone like me who gets caught up in the thinking/analysis stage a lot when I am trying to make a change. Plus when I get anxious about whether I am making progress or not, being able to point to things I have actually done is really helpful in doing an honest review of my progress.
I love how Ramit has the ability to help people see their No so helpful behaviors in a way that it’s nice and relatable. I watched both episodes and being an immigrant myself, it was hard to listen to Serena and watch Nate just go with it at times. I am glad that Serena is going to therapy and I feel that’s a great tool to have, I use it constantly too. What really showed a red flag for me is that it gives me the feeling that her compromised to be more generous is conditional, and she constantly mentions that she will be able to pay a little extra just because Nate will be eventually make way more money and she expects to be taken care of, reality is that life is not perfect and sometimes people lose their jobs or life happens and it would be stressful to know that your partner is not willing to support you or is holding a grudge for picking up the bills. When you get married is a team effort sometimes they help you out and sometimes you pick extra hours to help them out because in reality you’re helping your now family. ❤ the update wasn’t good for Nate since he will still spend more than he can but I understand it also will take time for Serena to change a behavior she obviously has had for a long time. Her pickup the check when she is the one who wants to go out would be the loving and generous thing to do in my opinion. That way she would be also helping Nate putting that money towards gas or his credit card.
I have to be honest; it took me a while for it to settle in that Nate was the high-income earner. For some reason, Serena's attitude lulled me into thinking that it was all hers and that Nate was tagging on for the ride. As a Gen-Xer with a bit of relationship experience, life and financial journeying to look back on, I am worried for him.
Not sure if you saw the first part, but Serena is indeed the higher earner for the time being. Once Nate finishes his residency in a couple of years, he will then be the higher earner.
As someone who makes similar income to Serena, I would have no problem being the primary financial support person in the relationship between me and my wife, if I knew 2/3 years later she’ll be making 3 to 4x more than me. Lol
I hope Serena and Nate take their time and do not rush to get married (Nate, are YOU listening?) as more growth and development are needed on Serena's part. The comment "I almost want to go out on the town and make you my 'sugar baby' right now, is indicative that Serena isn't ready for real change right now. Whether the split is 50/50, 60/40, or 65/35, Serena may never be happy because she wants to be taken care of. The double standard mindset is obvious. Serena seems to be transactional and needs to win. Nate, are you listening? When/if children enter the scene, be prepared, Nate, to negotiate everything "parenting"--even after stressful nights in the world of medicine. My hope is that Serena takes more time to practice "change" before the two walk down the aisle.
why? she extremely cautious about spending, she doesn't even ask for anything or spend on herself. So you are recommending that she pays 60% of the rent and support him as much as she can, and then after all that, he should leave her just because.... Incel mentality.
unless nate is completely okay being a doormat (and sugar daddy -.-) for the rest of this relationship/future marriage this is not going to end well. many other comments have covered the red flags, like the extremely demeaning sugar baby joke and cutting him off. i would add to the latter that he talks something like 5 times this entire 44 minutes (very similar stats in part 1 if you don't count the time nate spends directly answering ramit's background info questions), and she still cuts him off. ramit - would be interesting to see a time spent speaking pie chart breakdown. there have been quite a few episodes where one person dominates the conversation for one reason or another. this one was particularly telling to me showing the dysfunction in this relationship. of course, it could entirely be that they are perfect together in their dysfunctional puzzle-piecing life, but it is objectively dysfunctional nonetheless. glad they tried to talk it out here but i don't know if she will ever truly learn to be less selfish and work with nate as a team. the MD salary could just put a big bandaid over the surface money divvy issues but will not change who they are as people.
I didn`t even watch the whole thing and was already thinking: why isn`t he talking?? I`ve seen this type of "relationship" a lot of times, elsewhere and in my family, too, it`s often professionally very accomplished men (business owner, professor in physics, heart surgeon, engineer) married to extremely controlling women. While they`re very succesful in their jobs they`re total wusses at home and let their "wives" spray venom all the time, often unknowingly.
She’s not being open about her gender roles expectations. Being from Asia, men take care of their women financially. She’s selfish, worries about being taken care of… yes, but that’s out of her comfort zone and not what she’s been taught. To avoid these kind of issues, live separately until married, and that if you’re willing to support each other. You can’t want to live like a Western woman but still want a traditional Asian man. Pick one.
I I am ethnically African but born and raised in USA. There are conflicting ideas about money and gender roles but I think there is no problem blending the two points of view as long as your partner is on the same page. These two don't look on the same page at all.
I agree. I’m from here (U.S) but my family had traditional gender roles. My Dad worked and took care of the entire house. It does feel scary in todays climate with the 50/50 rule, not even because the money, but the mentality. It seems fragile for some reason
excellent episode. So great to hear breakthroughs in real time. I'd be so interested to hear some different types of relationships apart from just couple. A parent and child for example. so often in these episodes there is left over baggage from how we were raised. Interested to see this explored in this format.
34:01 Be careful Nate. Even after these two episodes and after all of these long discussions to get her to open her eyes, Serena's intuition is still to try to negotiate and nickel and dime you after she's well aware of the situation. It constantly takes Ramit (a neutral third party) having to point out these things to her and ask her the difficult questions before she finally gives in and realizes that these very obvious decisions she makes are fucked up. It blows my mind that you are making half her income and you're going to school to be a doctor and will very soon be making $325k and it's like she doesn't want to realize that you would obviously pay back the favor in spades. Let's be real here, after a couple of years, youre going to be making 10x what you're making now. It's ridiculous that Serena is not taking advantage of this short time period to help you out as much as possible in these very tiring and arduous times while you do your residency. It blows my mind how it doesn't dawn on her, that by her tksing care of you right now, you are going to change her life and take care of her for the rest of her life. I mean, lets face it, youre probably going to pay 85 to 90% of the mortgage, travel, and so many other expenses...for THE REST OF YOUR LIVES. And here she is, pestering you weekly about when you're going to pay her back the $3k for the trip that she wanted to drag you along to that she very well knew you couldn't afford. She should have 100% covered this trip especially since she knows that youll be taking care of her for the rest of her life. But she's so selfish/greedy, that she needs all of that money back tomorrow despite your very obvious situation. And considering that it was a trip that SHE essentially forced you to come on. It's incredibly selfish. Not to mention the rent split. And even after opening her eyes a bit, her intuition was still to go 60/40 after Ramit asked for 65/35 which is more than fair for like what, a year or two? What a small sacrifice for her to make for what you'll give her in return for the rest of her life. There's definitely some underlying greed/selfish/life sucker type vibes there. Im sorry, there's too many red flags man. They keep popping up over and over and over throughout these two episodes. If you decide to stick around, good luck man, but she doesn't deserve you.
tbh this was hard to watch. I think finance is so important to talk about and this is the first episode I've seen where I really think they should end things. I honestly get the vibe that the only reason she is staying with him because of his earning potential. Not saying she's a bad person but I don't get the vibe that she cares about him or is in a place to think about the other person or be supportive. She needs to likely seek some therapy before trying to be a partner and Nate also needs to work on asserting himself some more because he's digging himself in a deeper hole financially only for her and is too uncomfortable to push back.
How can someone remind their partner for the money they owe every week, despite being engaged? Especially when it's for a trip that she planned. I bet if it was up to Nate he wouldn't go because he knows he couldn't afford it. It's mind blowing to me. She is a big red flag.
I really appreciate your commentary at the end. It's validating to hear you articulate some of what I was thinking! I guess it's always easier to see things clearly from outside the situation.
Either add a more constructive comment or I will remove this. It takes a lot of courage to come on this show. Short, pointless comments like yours do nothing to advance the conversation. If you disagree with what you heard, tell us why. Be specific. Otherwise, this will be removed.
@@ramitsethi Thanks for the diligent work in making this a constructive comments section! I’ve wished for a place to discuss episodes with other listeners, and it’s clear it will take some real admin work to keep it constructive. Thanks to you/whoever on the IWT team is making this happen.
Oh Nate… what can I say? You remind me of my husband 10 years ago. So cute, so sweet, so much potential etc and lands on this one relationship where she has very strong and rigid beliefs based on her foreign upbringing. Her need to control because culturally that might have not been the case for her growing up. Ugh, Serena reminds me of myself 10 years ago. So controlling, some trauma based on foreign social norms etc, so needy to be a woman that is perceived as strong and unwavering unfortunately not thinking in the long term and seeing Nate as the partner he is. She’s not used to being a team and that may take some time but she needs to continue going to therapy. AND if she doesn’t feel challenged by her therapist she needs to change that therapist. Anyway, she can work on it and they’ll both benefit from it. I think it would help them to have a joint account (that was something I myself not wanted to bulge lol for a long time) so she can stop trying to see their relationship as their business partners rather than a couple who love each other. Nate… you need to sit down with yourself and have a conversation about whether or not you’re willing to put up for the rest of your life with her controlling nature if she doesn’t change. You don’t have to be in a relationship like that, it gets harder before it gets better. In my situation, I changed but it was years before I could see the light and I must say the new me hates what my husband put up with for such a long time. Also, not everyone changes… so consider your risk to your time investment into this relationship. She’s not a bad person but she IS controlling and that can take a toll. Consider your time frame. You’re a good and patient guy. Best of luck!
He very responsibly said multiple times, “I can’t afford that.” She refused to listen & then punished him for not being able to afford things. Also, she has disposable income *because* she’s not paying things in proportion with their incomes. She refuses to do so & then is upset he has no money. The poor dude is working so hard at his profession. He needs a teammate - not to be harassed for things he admitted he can’t do.
I wasn’t going to comment but the follow up killed me. This sounds like Financial Abuse to me. He allows her to talk him into doing things he cannot afford to do and then punishes him for it. Ramit did not dig into his background at all and why he feels like this kind of treatment is okay and tolerable. It’s evident he wants to do for her but she is not willing to do the same for him. It struck me odd when she said, “people are probably like, he’s a doctor and she’s a…well…I don’t know.” Seemed to me like she is struggling with the lack of control she will have when he’s the main earner and what her place will be, so she is constantly making him feel less than while she has the chance. He earns 35% of income and he’s paying over 5% of his income, meaning he still cannot contribute in any other way. Yet, they are still going out and paying 50/50 or drinks and food. So he is in the negative more than 5%. Why is he okay with this arrangement when it is to his detriment. I’m so curious about how his family dynamic with money is. A better arrangement would be 80/20 and then he can cover her when they go out and she can have that taken care of feeling she craves. I hope for him he can learn to set boundaries and make himself a priority. This does not seem l healthy at all and the issues go way beyond money. She interrupts him when he speaks, she talks over him firmly with her thoughts. There is clearly a lack of respect. I truly pray Nate learns his worth and his feelings matter. ❤
It’s “yours” and “mine” before marriage and “ours” after marriage. So many comments on this without acknowledging this very simple premise. I they had been married, then it would have been very different. That point was not addressed at all.
Control, judgmental and ambitious!! I always wonder why these couples are even together. When people show you who they are believe them the first time. She’s talking so much and she’s already planning on him paying more in the future. She has to be interrupted just for him to finish a sentence. He’s so grateful and it’s just so sad but will she really change . How do these people connect ?? Sugar baby ??? Really this is so sad. I hope he meets someone at the residency before the tie the knot and she’ll demand every nickel she spent on him
Nate needs to speak up and set boundaries on what's actually financially fair in this relationship. Serena's actions speak louder than words about her selfishness. How can you ask him on a weekly basis to pay back 3k, when it was your idea to take him on this vacation and know 90% of his paycheck is being spent on rent (because u won't move out), and on top of that, your idea to go out and eat but he gotta pay most time. I hope you learn to love him more with your action before your future high-income husband leaves. Not saying u can't survive without him, but u said you want to be taken care of, thus he can be the one to do it. I say if you really love each other and know u going to be married and be forever together, combine that income then. No one should be saying u owe me money, it's both yours. Cause then his money is yours and yours is his, and all the debt belongs to both of you guys. I'm a child of refugee parents, so I get it. I'm a control freak also with the checklist and planners. But that does not give me a reason to give my partner the financial burden. Combine that money so you can control his too, just like me...lol j.k on that last one. 🤫😅😄. Thank you Rumeet, I really 100% agreed with your closing ending.
Nate is a damn saint .... holy shit. Dude is busting his ass commuting several hours a day, and probably working at least 70 hours a week. They stay in an apartment that he can't afford while he daily is risking his life by driving sleep deprived and under constant financial stress, only to come home to a fiance' who grills him about a debt she knows he can't pay, that she loaned him to visit HER family. There's no chance in hell this man would be travelling internationally at this stage in life if he wasn't with Serena. she's totally comfortable exploiting him for more than his fair share of rent and meals, while she works from home (YEAH, SHE COULD LITERALLY WORK ANYWHERE) and stresses internally about buying a computer that she doesn't really need to make her life marginally better. Part of generous is forgiving a debts, and splitting expenses. A bigger and more important part is caring for your SO's mental health and physical well-being. $600 on gas at $4.00/gallon is 150 gallons used per month. Assuming Nate works 26 days per month (residency sucks) at 35 mpg that's a 100 MILE COMMUTE EACH WAY. That's at least 3 extra hours in the car per workday when he's already working what is likely a 12 hour shift. This is EXTREMELY, EXTREMELY DANGEROUS AND UNNECESSARY.
Growing up in an immigrant house hold myself, i understand her view on money and I myself have a lot of anxities on money but it also makes me have more compassion towards others when it comes to money. I hope that instead of using her background to push her partner into financial ruin, she'll use her experience to be more compassionate towards her partner, especially if she wants to be with him long term.
Everybody should sign a prenup before marriage. People think signing a prenup means you don't trust each other but its the opposite. Signing a prenup means that money is out of the equation when it comes to love and there is no ill-intentions involved. A prenup also forces each person's finances (debt and assets) to be transparent for both to see. I've had friends who didn't found out about the other's person debt until they got married without a prenup and now their spouse's debt become theirs also. Just food for thought.
Seems like theres not a lot of common sense nor a lot of common courtesy between the finances from Serena. I am not married or in a relationship by any means, but if my partner wants to contribute towards finances then the obvious thing would be to split everything proportionally. If I am making more money, why would I take advantage of someone that is working hard and not making as much money. I am also an immigrant as well with Indian parents so there is not a lot of excuses pulling that card out. Either you care about your partner in that aspect or you don't. Finances between the two partners don't need to be that difficult and the worst part is that they're not even in the time of theirs lives where they are buying a house or having children, etc. I am not sure if Nate has done this, but he needs to tell it how it is, he is not making enough money and also working resident hours, why would he want to get nagged into paying Serena back about something so miniscule. And if the behavior doesn't change by Serena, it seems like this relationship won't be last. No one is your person, even with an engagement ring, if you don't take care of them and don't see the future with them. Also when going to therapy, it's best to not talk about your issues , but be aware about what you are doing outside of therapy. If you having anxiety, find solutions to mitigate that. If you are a control freak, find ways to let go of certain behaviors or be aware of the tendencies. Easy said than done, but it seems like Serena hasn't gotten to that step yet. 7 years is a long time to be in relationship and to get to know someone, I am not sure if Nate gave up on that aspect of the relationship, but is he fine with being nagged or controlled almost by Serena? How is his mental health especially coming from a 60-80 hour work week or a 12-16 hour day and not being able to relax and feel tense all the time? Hope that there can be a change in their relationship for the better. It seems like there are a lot of holes that exposed on this episode. Maybe something both partners need to address to each other. Talking about money was the catalyst I guess.
I agree with the conclusion. It’s simple to write down what 50% is for each and thats what you contribute to rent. That’s a very challenging thing to apply though. I hope their behaviors keep improving and growing together
Not until they are married. He's getting more out of the relationship most likely. She cooks, she cleans, probably does his laundry, provides in the bedroom, all so he can focus on completely his residency. and now she's paying 60% of the rent. And they are not even married....lol. She's taking on a massive risk imo. But men really want a woman to do all this, and eventually dump her after he starts making 300k... Serena is smart and being very careful. So yes, her money is her money until they are married and there is a legal safety net. And as far as his money, he doesn't have hardly anything right now. From a logical stand point, it makes sense for her to put in the investment now, cooking, cleaning, pay 60% of the rent, in hopes that when they get married and he starts making 31k per month, it would cover everything, and they could invest efficiently. Yet most men would still call her a gold digger, because why should a woman expect anything but struggle love from a man that can't make ends meet...right?
@@voguehaven5154 She can pay 60% of the expenses in a relationship she sees longevity in or 100% of her expenses and be single. They are both benefiting from this weird dynamic. If she had better relationship prospects (a man who's already bringing it in), she'd most likely opt for that.
the original issue of the 3k loan was never addressed… why is this? What did they do about that? This episode was really interesting and showed a lot of growth but felt unfinished.
Nate, if you see this comment, broooooooo PLEEEEEEEEEEEEEZ get either a bullet-proof pre-nup OR drop her RIGHT NOW! She is a classic gold digger and would drop you in a heartbeat and get half of your future salary and assets while quitting her job, citing she "supported" you throughout your medical career (which she OBVIOUSLY isn't doing) and her hardships throughout her life. This is a textbook case of a gold digger just waiting it out till you reach your finish line. Make NO mistake. She will leave you the moment you apply her own "current" rules on her in 3 years. She doesn't see you as a life partner. You're just a tag along till she finds someone who earns more. A segway, but I believe based on these two interveiws and her ruthless nature, she will have three divorces and might be able to bag an eight or nine figure guy by the time she is in her early-mid 50s and then she will "settle down" - whatever that means by that time. And to be honest, $80k not a lot of money - a number she repeated a LOT and kept throwing at your face, calling it "SIGNIFICANTLY" more than what you earn. In my industry, quarterly bonuses are over 200k. Her entire salary is a high end dinner tab in NYC. Not something to brag about. In her priority list, you were nowhere there. Not even at the botton. Her "person" was not on her list. I can't even wrap my head around this. This is a wrap unfortunately... I am from NYC and I have never seen such a cunning and ruthless person in over two decades tha I have lived here. She is a an angry wolf in sheeps clothing. Acting cute when it suits her and daggers out the moment she doesnt feel like it. I really hope you find someone who actually supports you Nate! All the best and early congratulations on your future graduation (I may not see this video ever again - I can't stand Serena - hopefully by this time you guys are not together).
I loved this episode! I feel like @ramitsethi did a great job navigating their problems and getting them to realize what needs to be done, from an emotional perspective. It would've been super easy to do the video in 10 min by just saying "split things 65/35" and be done, but digging this deep will certainly be better for them in the long run. No hate on Serena or Nate, I love that they have shown great progress in just 1hr. Great job!
If the only reason she came to an epiphany was because the numbers looked “pretty fucked up “then Nate my friend you have a lot more problems ahead of you. She isn’t oblivious she is just selfish. Let her go Nate. Youll save yourself a world of pain.
Listening to this stresses me out. I feel for Nate - it is very clear she expects to be pampered and does not intend to contribute much financially to their future life together. She’s only sticking it out for now because she sees an easy life for herself in the future. It doesn’t sound like they have a mutual relationship.
Serena is treating Nate like a boyfriend, and he wants to be treated as a spouse (someone who gets full support, commitment and trust from their partner in life). But he IS a boyfriend at this point. Spouses share all their worldly goods, hopes and dreams and fully support one another. You can't expect that level of commitment from a roommate, even a fiance. Serena has taken a lot of criticism in the comments, but I sympathize with her. Without marriage, she has no legal rights and no longterm commitment. It makes sense that she's uncomfortable with investing large amounts of money in the relationship. Once his residency is over, he could walk away. Living together isn't the same as being married; if you want to be treated like a spouse, you must become one.
Some of what your saying is fair, I totally get the stuff about him walking away later. But the conclusion is they dont need to be together. He should pay her the 3k back, and leave.
I wonder how Serena would feel about signing a prenup? It seems like she’s just waiting for that lottery check to cash and live off it, but isn’t willing to hold Nate down in the meantime. I really wish they discussed the topic of a prenup.
You are deluding yourself if you think she is gonna suddenly change these deeply ingrained attitudes after the ceremony. She is not. "I have never really thought of Nate as, like, a really important person in my life". What else can you say? She said it in her own words clear as day. Some people just feel comfortable being stepped on, and that's where Nate is. I've met guys like him. The fear of having to find someone new is more terrifying to them than the abuse.
I thought of another option for these two: Serena could voluntarily live on the same amount Nate earns-if she limited herself to $45-50k living expenses, that would eliminate the lifestyle disparity between their two incomes. She could use the money she’s not spending on her expenses to pay down her student loans and beef up her retirement savings. This would reduce the tension in their relationship, it would provide her with a solid financial position that would benefit them both down the line, and her personally if the relationship doesn’t work out in the end. Perhaps that’s the genesis of her concern-she wouldn’t be the first woman to support her “person” during expensive post-graduate education, only to be dumped when he starts making real money. I’m not saying that’s what Nate is going to do, but it has happened before. She’s obviously resistant to Ramit’s proportional income model, and part of me understands that, as she doesn’t yet have the security of a legal marriage commitment. I wholeheartedly agree with the other comments that express concern for her selfishness-she really is something else-but if her control issues truly stem from fear for her future, this option would reduce that tension.
First she offered to pay his way after he told her he just could not afford the trip to Asia, and then is hounding him every opportunity she gets about when can he pay her back before he can even decompress after a day of work!? Then he seems to communicate at every instance that he can’t afford to pay for dinner or a night out but still insists he pay half. She makes 2x what he does and wants him to pay half, but if the shoe were on the other foot she would expect him to pay all the bills. He seems mentally drained and lacks the energy it would take to voice what he’s been expressing about his finances. In life and partnership sometimes you will have to fill in the gap where our partner is unable to. She has not been thoughtful, considerate or supportive of where he is right now today. I hope she gains more insight into herself and her control enough to release it and be to him what she herself wants. You cannot expect to receive something you are not will to give.
Please remember: These are real people who had the courage to come on my podcast and ask for help. Would you be willing to come on this podcast and share every detail of your financial life? Feel free to leave comments based on what you think, but remember that we are here to help in a supportive way, not to demean and criticize.
Im here to criticize 😂. Nate was a victim until you came in
@@simba8276 HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHHHAHA
Nate need to run, all about her !!!! That marriage will not work and he will always remember her bugging him, when she knows he can’t afford it
This comment section is being so unfair to Serena . Being a first gen kid is so stressful, especially if you have no money, it's very easy to develop a complex. He's obviously from a more secure financial background than her so it's easier for him to expect generosity. If she's makes 80k now, her maximum income will probably
be 100k/120k in her lifetime whereas his will be 300k in the next year. For the rest of their lives, he will always be making 3x more than her. Everyone can say "oh when he's a doctor he'll take care of her" but you have no idea what the future holds. There are many women in this world who financially helped their boyfriends out for years, through medical school, risky careers, new businesses, just to get left the second their men were wealthy enough to pull a younger/more conventionally attractive woman (Serena is pretty I'm not coming for her looks at all). She's smart to be hesitant to support anyone, no matter how much she loves him or how sweet he is. The future is not guaranteed no matter how much would say it is. I think drafting a healthy pre-nup for both of them now would be really good for her mental health and his probably too. People as smart as them feel comforted by stuff in writing.
@@penthousewhippiti will have to disagree here I think the comments section although very aggressive make a point. The point being that she is failing to take her partners financial position in consideration. She wants to go out and eat and take him but wants him to pay when he has no money? That is extremely inconsiderate. I don’t know how this relationship will work unless she does a lot of work. It can work but it will be on her. As for the prenup I think that would be best but would be interesting to see her reaction.
With all due respect, I don’t think they are meant for each other. Watched both episodes, and I’m so so sorry to think this. But that’s my conclusion. Also Nate, if when you need the woman the most she is that selfish, I think you should find a partner that is supportive and accommodating. Serena you are also not ready for marriage, at all. I am not even going to begin on this one. Thanks!
💯
Bro she a gold digger. Drop that girl with zero remorse
Once he becomes a doctor then if she starts an argument, pretty much she’s gone
Ok. You build up a man and get dropped for a younger model - Barbara D. Builder out here trying to get young women caught up.
Correct
Am I the only person who felt that Serena was only willing to consider changing because she knew that Nate would eventually be earning much more? What if Nate wasn't a resident? Obviously this isn't the focus of the show; but it seemed like Ramit had to continuously refocus her on Nate eventually earning 300k just to get her to be less selfish with her money. She should be ok splitting things 65/35 with no expectation of him ever earning more. It presented as "I'm only doing this because I know I come out on top at the end of this." The fact that she settled at 60/40 and said she wanted to be generous tells me she still doesn't get it, she learned that she was being messed up, but still wanted to make sure she was "winning." I'm disgusted. I'm not trying to be nasty or belittle these people, but I cannot fathom treating someone, you love, this way. I truly wish her mindset changes. I wish the best for them, maybe they truly love eachother, but this isn't what love looks like... this is what a business/contract negotiation looks like.
A lot of shoulds in this comment. She isn’t dating someone who’s not gonna eventually earn more than her. Not sure why she should do anything for a hypothetical scenario.
Yeah, he deserves so much better.
@Listen you get it, you understand the frustration everyone in the comments is feeling
@@Gioli565 youll never meet somone ... this man has more STUDNET debt then what she made ina year
who's going to carry the baby again?
Crazy how she understands that Nate is using up 97% of his income on THEIR fixed expenses but she is still asking him for her $3000 back. From what?! Theres literally nothing left...
He is going to leave her as soon as he gets that degree. You can see it already. My wife's a Nurse and she sees these new doctors with the people that supported them through their school and residency and as soon as that is over, that Doctor leaves their old partner.
@@Zr0din its fine she didn't actually support him. she lowered his rent payment but beyond that she provided him 0 support.
@@Playingwithproxies, exactly. She is more of an added source of nagging stress he doesn't need.
She gives me crazy spoiled brat vibes. Harassing him about money for a trip she basically forced him to take, constantly.
Nagging him as soon as he walks in the door...
Screw that.
I agree, it's her trip that she is dragging him on then also asking him to pay the $3k. Also, he was okay with living in a cheaper place but she needs to rent from a more expensive place yet still asks him to unproportionally pay rent. I hope he figures out what a monster she is and he leaves her soon.
I think that is exactly what she is unspokenly afraid of!
Selina says nate is her "person" but actions speak louder than words. Her actions scream greed and selfishness. He is spending 97% of his income on fixed costs and she STILL wants him to pay for the dinner out OR thank her for paying for half of the bill..
😂😂😂
he should thank her, why should he not say thank you? its basic politeness.
@@voguehaven5154because she isn't paying her share, he's paying more than her so why would he thank her? And aren't they partners in this together?
@@voguehaven5154Why should he say thank you for going 50-50 on a dinner date? What are you talking about?
@voguehaven5154 also are you unable to see how nate is talking how guilty and shameful he's feeling just because he thinks he should pay for everything as a man but unable to but In return he gets the type of women who is selfish
She has 50k in debt. I don't think she's selfish, but she has a whole lot of anxiety around money. It's good they are addressing this now to ask the hard questions...and to determine if they have a shot in the long term.
Both of these episodes and I know nothing about nate's money psychology. It was the serena show. Says it all right there.
I felt there was an elephant in the room that really wasn't addressed and it's that marriage was looming. And how these money mindsets could destroy a marriage. Calling someone your person is cute but Nate is going to be her Husband. In a marriage its rarely 50/50. Each couple contributes differently given the season of marriage that they are in. A just us season. Two kids under two season. A parent needs care season. You lost your job season. And on and on. What makes it bearable is knowing you have a life partner that will stand by you through it all. Serena doesn't seem ready for the enviable turbulence marriage will bring. Her controlling ways will suffocate Nate inside a marriage. Nate seems way too passive or just too exhausted to fight her. Which is the beginning of the end in my opinion. Clearly, they love each other. It seems like they still have time to right the ship. Nate needs to speak up more and express his needs. Serena should continue working on her money beliefs. They both should get excited about a financial bright future that they can create together.
I agree. With the focus so much on split finances, it was never brought up about combining finances once they are married. Once you combine finances the whole splitting the rent and bills thing goes away. Unless they are still planning to keep their finances split once they are married?
I’d say they’ll never get around to joint accounts which is the norm for me and many marrieds. But I have a lot of former colleagues (I’m retired now so I’m in that frugally raised demographic) who haven’t joint accounts across the board like us. They have maybe a joint house account and then individual “my own money” accounts. This is all a bit alien to me. Splitting a cheque is only something I do eating out with friends not, with my husband. Each to their own I know and I’m not judging but I am judging Nate and Serena as I don’t see this working out as she’s too rigidly set in her control freak mindset and lacks insight.
When Nate makes $300,000, I guarantee you that Serena will have zero pushback with having a joint account with Nate with access to “their [her]” funds.
'Together' being the key word!
If I’m in Med School, dealing with long hours of class, studying, the last thing I want as soon as I get home is my old lady running her mouth. I don’t want to hear it! Men don’t want these fantasy driven idealized relationships women get often ruminate over. We want PEACE! ☮️
Nate these are the red flags.
1. Although Ramit said the ratio to share the expenses should be 65:35 she doesn't agree & makes you pay more for rent. For dinner you need to pay 35% instead you're paying 50%
2. She says you are her Special Person but not when it comes to money
3. She wants you to visit her parents but doesn't want to sponsor you
4. When you start earning, she wants you to pay for everything, but now she doesn't want to support you financially.
5. You want to move out of this neighborhood as the rent has gone up, but she wants to stay here for status. She doesn't care about your financial burden.
6. She loves controlling.
This woman is a GOLD DIGGER. Run as fast as you can. Even when you earn that gigantic salary, it wont be enough for her. She'll RUIN you Nate. There are many women who will love you for what you are & will support you.
How is she a gold digger? She's literally paying more than half of the rent
@@allinterests287she is expecting the money she is spending now to be rapped back once he has a great income. She wants him to pay for everything when that happens so she is in fact beings gold digger because she will keep her income and also get his indirectly.
@@SaintsandSushi nah...if she is going to be a stay home mom, he will have to pay for everything. She's not a gold digger.
If he doesn't like it, he should find an educated woman on the same level as himself. However, its seems like men don't want that path either. What they want is a poor, subservient women who demands nothing and gives everything while he walks over her. That's called slavery...and surprise, no woman is up for that.
I don't think she's a gold digger but the other points were salient. I think she has insecurities with money and cares more about that burden than his mental state. She's not working from an 'us' mentality but only from a 'me' mentality.
@@voguehaven5154 absolutely agree with you that men just want a subservient he can control and who has no say in anything. However, what makes you assume that the woman in this video is not educated? She is making more than decent money and is able to afford a lot on her salary. She is a college graduate just like him. Nothing gave me the impression that he was more educated than her…he just happens to be on a field that pays major salaries to anyone…even people who are not college graduates who just take a 6 week course online. And I very much doubt she will be doing the whole stay at home thing and not have an income of her own….she is way too controlling to lose that kinda of power.
60/40 division with 65/35 earning is neither generous nor fair and Serena saying „sugar baby“ showed her true attitude. This talk has made some progress for Serena, but she is not there yet
There’s ZERO progress. Members of the “Dark Triad,” like Serena, are like the Terminator. They can’t be argued with, bargained with or reasoned with. They don’t feel shame, or guilt, pity or remorse. They absolutely will not stop, EVER. Until they have conquered you by any means necessary. The telltale clue is she couldn’t bring herself to go 65/35 in their “revised” parameters. To her, that would means he got over on her. This is a contest for her: A conquest. He is her accessory. Her means to a luxurious end. And he’s so hopelessly smitten he’s following behind her like a lost puppy dog.
@@ian_fordagree and that sugar baby "joke" was super disrespectful. She is for the streets
@@ian_ford to say there was zero progress is objectively not true. Even as someone who is not a fan of Serena (I think Nate should/will eventually leave her), she was self-aware enough to be honest about who was and see that she needed to stop imposing her need for control onto Nick's finances. That said, I don't think the progress was/is enough to sustain a healthy relationship.
60/40 in the spirit of "generosity" caught me by surprise, I was hoping she'd say 70/30 since he'd been paying more than his share already.
I can’t help being mean here, he needs to break up with her yesterday. No excuses in her background for how she’s treating him.
"I don't think I've ever really thought of Nate as... ok, 'this is someone that is a very important part of my life" - Serena about her fiancé. I really wish you the best Nate, after 1 1/4 episodes I cannot fathom watching any further. I've seen enough.
To be fair, I think she meant she didn’t think the second part- that her spending didn’t reflect that she is saying he is one of the most important parts of her life.
Don’t worry Nate once you’re earning she will find something else to be miserable about.
If Nate was my son I’d loose my mind, his parents must be horrified at this engagement
I hope Nate can eventually find HIS person. At the very least, I hope he gets a prenup. I don’t understand how Serena can treat her fiancé like he’s just a roommate. Yes, she has to foot the bill more often, but does it matter where the money is coming from when you’re about to get married? Will he still “owe” her when they’re married? They’re supposed to be a team, it’s not about who owes who. Not that it should matter, but Nate will eventually earn a boatload and he’ll be able to contribute a lot more. Their situation is temporary, but she’s failing to hold him down like a fiancé should. It’s kinda selfish and makes Serena look unprepared for marriage.
Classic example of "What's yours is mine and what's mine is also mine"
As a resident with this much in loan. I can’t even watch this episode. That guy better run as fast as he can.
It was excruciating!!
I just came across a more fitting quote that fits this episode: “people who love us - care about how they make us feel.”
Nate - good luck with finding YOUR person! Serena - listen and be slow to speak. Take care!
You've almost become a relationship therapist as I bet most divorces end up being due to financial disagreements. Very enlightening talk, I hope you do more! Real people, real ordinary financial issues.
This stretches beyond their finances to their relationship as a whole, which I am afraid seems to need a lot of work. I sincerely hope that they get both individual and relationship counseling before getting married. There are a lot of big questions that were left unexplored, the biggest one being what is their relationship philosophy?
From what I've seen, Serena doesn't have a team philosophy. She's out to get as much as she can for herself. And that's it. This is evidenced by her personal entitlement (that she deserves to be treated generously by Nate, but she isn't treating him fairly let alone generously), lack of empathy toward Nate's circumstances, and her lack of understanding of what is a reasonable. No, asking him to "treat" her is not reasonable when he is spending 97% of his income on the bare essentials. No, asking him to go on an expensive vacation to visit her family is not reasonable, and it is absolutely ridiculous for her to have given her fiance a loan that she is now nagging him to pay back.
Don't get me wrong, I grew up in a poor and struggling family. I have some empathy toward Serena's anxiety about money. I have money anxiety of my own. However, I could not imagine treating my life partner the way that she treats hers. I'm very much a team-oriented person toward my life partner. Sometimes I'm going to give more (financially, emotionally, etc) and other times they're going to give more. That's because we're a team and the point of a relationship isn't for things to be 50/50. It's for our team to be functional and for us to do the best we can in life--together. And that philosphy transcends money.
This is definitely not going to be fixed with more money. It's not going to be fixed by getting married. It needs to be fixed with hard conversations.
Additionally, I wish that we had heard more of Nate's side of the story. He seems like he could be more amenable to a team philosophy--as in, we're a team and it's you + me against the world. And if that's the case, then there is a core incompatibility in the relationship and I'm honestly not sure why they are still together.
Of course, when the shoe is on the other foot, Serena will expect things to be different when Nate is making more money. That's consistent with her out to get as much as she can for herself philosophy. What happens if for whatever reason he can't work anymore? Is she going to become resentful and leave? Sounds like she might, and that's exactly the problem here.
They need to do some serious work on their relationship. I sincerely wish that they dig deep enough and do that work, otherwise I'm unfortunately not hopeful for their long-term outlook.
Yeah I don't think Serena realises how selfish she's being, but also how controlling(neurotic?) she is to have control/relief right now.
The loan thing is really ridiculous. I think she should be paying more than 66% of the rent, perhaps like 90%(though in a vacuum, splitting 50/50 seems an ok approach- if Nate doesn't go destitute). But really splitting expenses seems really silly. It's almost like they are planning to be with each other only temporarily.
It's also surreal how obviously poor Nate is and how unaware Serena is about this. How can you treat someone this poorly? Even with the loan, can't she just accept he will pay her back in like a month after being a doctor. With for example ~10% interest then Serena is better off not badgering him about it until then...
@lightbreeze183 Because she's hot and maybe he has yellow fever or a personality white girls that hot don't like(ie bookish/nerdy). Just spitballing
@@cooledcannon This is an unhelpful comment.
I agree. Their finance is similar to me and my partners finance. I earn 6 figures, he earns $35k a year as he’s still getting his masters. We live in the Bay Area which is very expensive. I pay larger portion of our expenses because I understand he cannot afford nor it isn’t fair for him to spend evenly. I also grew up poor but thankfully I learned to manage my finance and have a strict budget. She’s definitely inconsiderate. I don’t think they should even get married especially that finance is the biggest cause of divorce.
She needs to put her self in his shoes. They should work as a partner, a team. There’s def a lot of work here…
On the flip, I have zero empathy for her anxiety around money. I grew up poor too, I’m 27 today and I have yet to take a vacation as an adult. Outside of quality work clothes, and steel toe boots, I haven’t even bought casual clothes or shoes for fashion. Same clothes and shoes the last 3-4 years. There’s no in between. You either have money concerns and live accordingly or you don’t. No half ass non sense.
Rents went up, he suggested moving, she said no. She wanted him to meet her family, he said he couldn't afford it, she forced him and "lent him" $3000. Then she refuses to split the rent fairly AND makes him go out to dinners and pick up the check.
She wants to be in control but not the responsibility around it. All this said, I think she and Nate were brave to come on here and unpack their thinking, so I really hope she's changed her thinking and they're doing much better.
Nate my man you need to take a step back
Ultimately, Nate needs to figure out what he values in a partnership and whether or not he wants to compromise on those values with Serena. The values of being honest with oneself and fairness come to mind.
Agree. I worried for him when she said in Ep 1 that rent was split the way it was because she has stuff to pay for. It seemed to not regard his needs! They are human and complicated, and I appreciated them being open. Sharing really took courage.
I wish them the best, but it’s extremely rare that people can genuinely change. I was absolutely astounded when she said she wasn’t thrilled about having to pay an extra $160 a month for rent, when the other person is her fiancé. That’s someone who just isn’t ready for marriage. I know $80k isn’t rich, but if you’re only paying ~$1k a month in rent, $160 is a fairly trivial amount, literally less than $2k a year. I hope she can overcome these issues, but this is about as simply as it gets. Wait for a few years until he’s on $400k, she’s on $120k, and one wants a vacation house and the other wants to save more, or one wants to fly business and the other wants to stick with coach. The problems don’t change even when you have a high income, if anything it exposes differences even more when you’re not as driven by scarcity.
I THOUGHT THE SAME
My issue with the reluctance to pay the extra $160 towards rent was that she was not considering how much he was paying for her every time he picked up the check when they went out. In NYC it is easily over $160 a month if they go out even every other weekend.
During residency, we made it work on $40k salary, sharing x-large bowls of pho because we were poor. Me working to clean houses to save on rent, making him lunches and keeping track of everything else. During fellowship, we made it work again with $60k salary with me being a stay home mom. Now, as an attending, sure $300k sounds like plenty, but after taxes and mortgage and loan repayment, its not the $30k per month like you would imagine.
We still live below our means, maxing out all possible retirement accounts and getting ready to try to buy our nicer house. Being married is team work, it means using your 80k income to help him get rid of his student loans. It means him sharing his 300k income. There's no your debt, your bill, your this or that.
Yep, we’ve been together 25 years from having nothing to the point of not taking any honeymoon and taking the bus to overnight fast-food shifts to take classes during the day to a single executive income where just an annual bonus is more than we dreamed of ever making in a year. What’s been the same in life through this whole arc is that everything we have is ours together and we are a team. Every career decision, debt payment, or late-night studying or feeding babies has been something we did to advance together as a team, not asking ourselves what would be equal or fair between us but just what can I be doing to make things best for my teammate. I think young people considering marriage would do well to consider how any systems they have for money management would work when something like cancer knocks. I would hope the plan isn’t to present a bill for services rendered and income covered when suddenly your person isn’t able to contribute in any way, potentially for a very long time. Life is challenging enough without setting your spouse as a financial opponent.
@@laurenm.6320They have to work together. If not for working together my husband and I wouldn't have what we have. When he was diagnosed with cancer in 2022 I put my head down and kept going to work making sure I maintained my job and thankfully his job was very accommodating and allowed him to work as much as he could so he didn't have to go on short term disability. Now he's gone and I'd happily give anything for him to still be here including and beyond having to bear the brunt of our finances (which he did for me so I could go to school). Some people are clueless and allow their own hangups to ruin something good.
Serena is too controlling, not in tune with her partner, and does not show much compassion. She doesn’t want to help for the short term but has her eye on the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow once Nate begins is career. Run Nate …
It’s so selfish of her and I wish we could have seen her being challenged more about her beliefs. I hope Nate gets a prenup.
I feel bad for Nate wasting his 20s being with someone so self-centered. I can't imagine coming home to someone berating me to pay them back for a trip to visit their parents of all things. Wild.
I was so excited to see Serena willing to admit fault and try to be better, but the update was so disappointing. However I’m not surprised. We’re only seeing a tiny fragment of their lives, so it’s unfair to judge their relationship, but chances are, these issues snowball, they don’t miraculously disappear. Honestly, Serenas control of money seems to be more important than Nate-her “person”. What’s sadder is that Nate is acting like a man who loves his girl. He’s willing to give her his last dollar, but she struggles to just be fair-not even generous-just fair and equitable. It is unfair to judge people based on such short videos without knowing them at all. But Nate, you can do better my dude. Your girlfriend has prioritized control of money over you and that’s sad. She’s willing to watch you struggle so she can sleep soundly as shes able to save 10k while you scrape by. Think about that. You are too generous to a fault and she is too shrewd and controlling to a fault. I don’t think there’s a middle ground. She’s the kind of person who says “what’s mine is mine and what’s yours is mine too”. Best advice I ever got, “choose someone who reflects who you are inside”. Nate, you seem like a very generous person, I think you deserve at least that.
Nate appears to be over it. I think we know he’s got one foot out the door.
“She struggles to just be fair-not even generous” YES
making him pay more for rent because she wanted to live there, and now he spends more on gas $600/month on gas doesn't compensate for the $160 dollar more in rent. This is crazy to me
You are spot on.
I just can’t believe that they did not discuss finances before getting engaged.
Most couples don't.
Brutal to listen to. So many issues here and red flags. They should not be even talking about marriage unless they are aligned and going in the same direction. She is controlling and manipulative, He is a pushover who does not set healthy boundaries. Good luck to these two. If she is going on about him owing her for a trip that she is forcing him to take and he said that he cannot afford then making him grovel at her feet, how can he feel "love" towards her or anything other than resentment. If she is not willing to help him for huge potential future then she is not the right person for him. He needs to set boundaries!!
This is the saddest follow up we ever had on this show. She is behaving like this relationship is not based on trust, love and care. It's some sort of just an investment for her. Nate, she loves you, but God forbit you will fall ill and will need love and support. You will go through the same struggle with her. Please, don't get married. She will not be there for you in the future, same as she is not there for you now.
I saw zero evidence that she loves him. None.
I think she is controlling but not only that, she is also somewhat enjoying having the power in this relationship. She is more outspoken than Nate, who is more towards shy and less talkative. She is confrontational and he is more calm and doesn’t like confrontation. It’s like she is the man in the relationship and Nate let her be it. She sets the rules, all because her making more somewhat makes her feel more powerful. To me she is using him in some ways, I’m sure they love each other, but …. I don’t know! Honestly, I don’t see pure love here.
What makes you "sure" they love each other? What is love exactly?
This is spot on.
He feels bad because he is not able to pay for everything, she feels bad because he is not able to pay for everything
I really, really hope Serena has learnt from this, and it's not just lip service. It is a temporary situation, and it would be interesting to see the dynamics when Nate will be making more money. Could you bring them back on the show please, Ramit?! I didn't like the sugar baby joke and glad you caught it, Ramit.
It was very demeaning, I didn’t appreciate that joke either.
Bet she wouldn’t appreciate being called a gold digger or sugar baby when he is making more than her and paying more bills/date nights.
And it sounds like that wasn’t what she really intended as we could see from the follow-up letter.
The sugar baby comment was awful.
Serena was all, "I'm going to be more relational, less transactional, and less controlling."
I cheered for her!
Then... "I'll make you my sugarbaby." 🤦♀️🤦♀️🤦♀️
@@NFPwife Exactly 🙃
@@NFPwife soon she will be the sugar baby.
She’s not ready for marriage, yours mine and ours, girl! And he needs to have a backbone and get on a budget. He should know when/how much he can pay her back, be it $15/week or month or whatever. He should be on a better budget. And tell her NO when dinner or whatever is not in his budget.
Why should he have to pay her back? He’s her person remember? You don’t do that to your significant others. There’s no division. It’s a very selfish mindset.
@@lindalinda9441 Totally agree. If they're planning on keeping finances apart for the rest of their life, fine, but she plans on joint accounts when he makes more= =
why are they beating around the bush? Serena should just pay for the entire rent. He can pay for the food/going out. 5 years later, he gunna have more than enough to support her. Regardless it still a red flag. Run away Nate. Best advice for you.
She only agreed to making the current rent arrangement more equitable when she acknowledged that in less than 5 years it will really benefit her when he makes 3x as much. When they go out he will, at best, split the check or pay for either drinks or dinner - even though she makes almost twice as much as him. And she’s STILL not willing to go 65/35 even though that would more appropriately match their incomes. I really hope he comes back at her with the same attitude when he’s the one making 300k. If she’s not willing to be proportional now, he shouldn’t be willing to later. I hope she listens to this and realizes how selfish and entitled she sounds.
I sense something a little more insidious bc I dated a girl exactly like this.
On the surface, you want to applaud her for her honesty. But these kind of people are masters at weaponizing their “honesty” They often use it as an excuse/crutch-but the thing is, they never stop doing the thing that’s hurting you. They hide under a cloak by doing very small acts of kindness (bare minimum) to project an image of being caring to everyone else: to friends, family, coworkers, colleagues, animal shelters, to everyone under the sun except you. Poor guy. I genuinely hope he comes to his senses, because sweeter, and frankly, hotter chicks will be throwing themselves at him in the future.
Good luck Nate, rooting for you.
Yes! This is PRECISELY my exact read on this.
I immediately thought covert narcissist when she opened her mouth.. on BOTH episodes.
She is extremely self centered, selfish, cold and has no business being in ANY relationship. Could you imagine her as a mother? I can’t even imagine her as a friend.
Hopefully chicks with a nicer nose
@@lindalinda9441 She's gonna be the type that hands her child a bill at their graduation while her children had been spending his salary...
I totally empathize with Serena's financial trauma, as I am also the daughter of immigrants who were very financially conservative. I agree that changing my money psychology is very difficult. Ramit's podcasts and book have helped me a lot in this sense!
I'm curious about if there were other parts of this conversation in which Ramit tried to dig into why Nate hasn't been advocating for himself? I think it's great that Ramit was addressing Serena's deep-rooted issues, but Nate not using his voice make me feel like this dynamic will continue to be unsustainable.
Really Really Good question, why hasnt nate been advocating for himself. I fear for him on some level.
I don’t think it has anything to do with being an offspring of an immigrant. I am an immigrant myself and I am financially conservative, but I am not selfish towards with life partner.
I think Serena has real fear around her ongoing security and a fear of abandonment. She's worked hard to get where she is and she doesn't want to blow it by making bad mistakes in love and money. I don't know if she feels really secure that Nate will be there for her in 3 years, whether conscious or subconscious. I think these people are brave being so vulnerable with Ramit and we should have compassion for her and her subconscious fears.
Maybe her fear, but he has to pay for it and suffer for it.
She might be thinking that he may leave her for someone in the future that will be going after him once he makes more money. That may be why she wants the $3,000 back. Why aren't they married and sharing everything?
I would love to come back to them in 3 years on an update. I’m curious to see where they would be in this process
I would hope Nate would be engaged to someone else.
For people like Nate to exist, people like Serena need to exist and vice-versa.....no amount of money is going to change the underlying personality issues that plague both of them but they are probably comfortable with the coexisting dynamics
Given these new “rules”, she has not internalized what generosity is. She simply doesn’t FEEL generous. People who are generous don’t need RULES. People who are generous WANT to make their spouse/significant other as happy as they can, she does not. I appreciate her honesty but her actual feelings are the reasons this marriage will not work.
Yeah, and they live there cuz she wants to. Broski spends a whopping $600/mo on gas when he drives a civic....
Im married now to the love of my life. When we met, he was completely relationship avoidant, had commitment issues, and deep seated self doubt about being able to be a good partner. Everyone told me to "run"- but i had a lot of love and patience to give this person, and im so so glad that i was understanding and worked through his stuff with him. We are so happy now. Hes an incredible partner and husband. This couples situation has a different issue, but i honestly believe that people can and do change. They have the potential to have a beautiful relationship and marriage if they continue to be open to growing together and changing those mindsets that are holding them back from thriving together. Lets stop running when things get hard.
I love that for you guys but confidence can be built with love, while selfishness is much harder to change. I really wish change happens for this couple otherwise it'll be a tough life.
Masterful! First episode, I had some level of resentment towards Serena’s perspectives, but after this episode, and due to your careful needling and question asking towards Sabrina that has leant to much needed introspection, I’ve come to realize that she is after all… human. Understanding fixes everything. Communication is a vaccine for resentment and most problems. You sir inspire me to be a better communicator and listener with this one episode. Take this win!
This was my experience as well! Well said.
Since they are engaged I kept waiting for a discussion of whether the $3000 would still be owed if they were married. It just seemed like a lot of things weren't addressed directly enough.
I can imagine a future where they're spending an aniversary together with a kid and she would still ask about the $3000 loan. She seems worse than a creditor. It's like marrying a loan shark lmao. I know I joke about this, but the power dynamics change when you lend people money. I feel like Nate understands his position and knows he couldn't afford it to begin with. She could have accepted his financial status and went alone or if she really wants him to come then accept the responsibility of fronting the money for the trip as a gift. If the shoe was on the other foot and nate was making twice her income, I would not doubt he would just take her without any question about money.
Yes, totally agree! And the trip was to visit HER family!! Why was that a loan?
After watching this and after already having watching the first half, and im really disappointed in everyone saying how Nate needs to dump Serena right away. It takes so much to not only get out in front of a bunch of people, but to be honest about the negativity in ones life AND be open to changing. Serena has shown she deserves a chance to show Nate she can grow as a person. Nate needs to learn to enforce his own boundaries, He has let her get away with this. If Serena can to learn to let go and go with the flow, her life will be less stressful. If both of them can learn to grow and change together, this finance issue will just be another ripple in the water. Stay blessed out there guys! 💚
I relate to Serena so much. I also fixate on crossing things off my list and making plans daily, monthly, yearly. I've been married for two years and it's been extremely difficult. I never realized how much control I needed until I got married. I wanted everything to feel "fair" ALL THE TIME. I feel my husband is Nate-- very patient, kind, and looking for respect. I've grown so much as a person and learning to let go of control. The last 6 months have been so much better as I am able to let go of ego and learning to be more generous. Your marriage will work because you are honest with yourselves and I see the love that you share for each other. Keep having the difficult conversations, speak with each other with kindness through an empathetic lens. Be proactive in loving each other.
She's a narcissist. Disgusting to treat him like this, but expect him to pay when he's earning more. Pretty despicable.
Nate better leave that woman for sure!
At 26:25 , when you said you were surprised that she didn't ask him about his student loan debt. It seems to me that she views that as HIS debt. So she isn't concerned about it because it's HIS responsibility to pay it off. I get the sense that she views her money as her money, and his money as their money. (Even tho the debt directly reduces how much money he can spend on her)
Maybe a joint bank account would fix this? But even then, I would assume she would only agree to join bank accounts when he is putting in more capital than her. I'm not sure what would change her mindset to realize that they are a team, not rivals.
I guess it's just gender roles then? The male should invest more because she suffers the reproductive cost of having a baby, so the additional male investment offsets the cost of female reproduction. idk lol
She won’t change until she gets over the “my money is my money your money is our money & my debt is our debt your debt is your debt” mindset.
Oh yeah, Serena for sure views Nate's debt as HIS debt, and not something that she is responsible for at all. I was extremely surprised Ramit didn't probe into that, because that gets to the core of the issue. She doesn't view them as a team. She thinks that Nate should be shouldering the burden of taking care of her extras while he is struggling financially, meanwhile she doesn't feel any responsibility to help him with necessities that he can barely afford. While internalized gender roles and entitlement can explain *why* Serena feels the way that she does, that's not justification for treating someone unfairly. Especially someone you say you love.
I highly doubt that Serena would agree to a joint bank account until Nate is making more money than her. This is evidenced by the fact that her "generosity" extends to lowering the rent to 60/40 (not 65/35 which would be proportional to their incomes). I'm glad that Ramit called that out at the end, because that's not even fair, let alone being generous.
same here! it was obvious she does not care about that debt because she doesn't feel its her at all... so she is in for when the money comes in, but she is out for when its time to pay debts
but it is his debt. And she shouldn't see it as her debt unless she marries him. Its not her responsibility, literally.
I can't even watch the rest of this, I cringe when Serena opens up her mouth. Good luck Nate, I hope you find someone that truly loves and respects who you are.
Marriage has to be 100/100 (not 50/50) or it won't last. I speak as someone who is married and has been for 39 years. ❤❤
You mean sharing the costs or whoever has the capacity to pay the bills?
@@josephj6521 Not just that, Joseph. I mean in terms of commitment to making the project work. Communication is the key. There must be no taboo subjects of conversation.
@@andrewrobinson2565 its never 100/100. There are times where one person carries the weight/load more than the other. If you think its 100/100, you have no clue what a 30 year marriage consists of.
Sound like you are an incel.
Totally agree. My wife and I have been together 33 years, married for 30. Neither of us have ever kept track of our income, savings, investments, etc. separately. And neither of us has ever uttered the phrase "when are you going to pay me back?"
I want to thank this couple for being brave enough to do this so we can all learn from their experience.
This was a long week to wait for part 2 Lol! I had mixed feelings listening to this one after feeling angry for Nate in the last one. The concept of "Money Psychology" is awesome - hearing this for the first time and hearing others' perspectives on this was intriguing.
I want to start by saying I understand Serena's background and her upbringing brought her to her current mentality on money. Also, I applaud the amount of guts it takes to come onto a public podcast with a fairly large audience. However, at the same time, I wasn't too happy with the conclusion of this episode.
I wholeheartedly agree with @lightbreeze183. I believe Serena's attitude + controlling nature isn't healthy and the fact that whenever Ramit was directing any questions towards Nate she jumped in to interrupt, was irritating. I personally was looking forward to hearing Ramit dive deeper into the rent scenario and discuss more of the hypocritical ideologies Serena was speaking out about.
I was also honestly awaiting to hear the words "Prenuptial Agreement" today too. I wonder how Serena would have reacted. And as DUDE DUDE said, it's not fair that Serena's money is her money and that Nate's money is "their" money once he starts his role as a doctor.
I hope Nate starts to take a stand and start to be more financially literate to realize the type of situation he is in because as you said, these discussions will only become more painful later down the line. I also hope Serena starts to proactively try to change her controlling behavior now before Nate becomes a doctor so it can become easier for the both of them when the new situation comes. I am no financial guru myself but the thought that Nate could be taken advantage of financially and clearly mentally really bothers me...
Thank you for the episode Ramit, it was indeed enlightening and thought provoking.
So true, both needed to take responsibility for the positioning in the relationship.
I think one of the fears is, many women get dumped once their husbands finish their degrees and get into high paying jobs. So many women put their BF/husbands through school only to be dumped.
She will never go for a prenup, and he will never demand it. She has deep seated issues with money.
I was also very upset when she interrupted Nate. She doesn’t listen!!
Ramit - I absolutely love the little exercise you had Serena do with the anthropologist and the clipboard! I think it's incredibly helpful to think through what change actually looks like and how to work towards goals from an action perspective, especially for someone like me who gets caught up in the thinking/analysis stage a lot when I am trying to make a change. Plus when I get anxious about whether I am making progress or not, being able to point to things I have actually done is really helpful in doing an honest review of my progress.
Thank you. I'm glad you liked it!
I love how Ramit has the ability to help people see their No so helpful behaviors in a way that it’s nice and relatable. I watched both episodes and being an immigrant myself, it was hard to listen to Serena and watch Nate just go with it at times. I am glad that Serena is going to therapy and I feel that’s a great tool to have, I use it constantly too. What really showed a red flag for me is that it gives me the feeling that her compromised to be more generous is conditional, and she constantly mentions that she will be able to pay a little extra just because Nate will be eventually make way more money and she expects to be taken care of, reality is that life is not perfect and sometimes people lose their jobs or life happens and it would be stressful to know that your partner is not willing to support you or is holding a grudge for picking up the bills. When you get married is a team effort sometimes they help you out and sometimes you pick extra hours to help them out because in reality you’re helping your now family. ❤ the update wasn’t good for Nate since he will still spend more than he can but I understand it also will take time for Serena to change a behavior she obviously has had for a long time. Her pickup the check when she is the one who wants to go out would be the loving and generous thing to do in my opinion. That way she would be also helping Nate putting that money towards gas or his credit card.
I have to be honest; it took me a while for it to settle in that Nate was the high-income earner. For some reason, Serena's attitude lulled me into thinking that it was all hers and that Nate was tagging on for the ride. As a Gen-Xer with a bit of relationship experience, life and financial journeying to look back on, I am worried for him.
Not sure if you saw the first part, but Serena is indeed the higher earner for the time being. Once Nate finishes his residency in a couple of years, he will then be the higher earner.
It was difficult to hear him respond. He’s not expressed himself much and she didn’t imagine that could be the case.
Because the moment he was candid, she cried about him making HER sound “mean”. Made it all about her.
@@dragonmom8739 yeah, that was very manipulative. Tears to shut down the other person.
I feel so bad for Nate. I hope it all works out!
As someone who makes similar income to Serena, I would have no problem being the primary financial support person in the relationship between me and my wife, if I knew 2/3 years later she’ll be making 3 to 4x more than me. Lol
Honestly, if you’re ready to marry the person, it shouldn’t matter what their potential future income is. She is using him.
Key phrase - your wife. They aren’t married.
I hope Serena and Nate take their time and do not rush to get married (Nate, are YOU listening?) as more growth and development are needed on Serena's part. The comment "I almost want to go out on the town and make you my 'sugar baby' right now, is indicative that Serena isn't ready for real change right now. Whether the split is 50/50, 60/40, or 65/35, Serena may never be happy because she wants to be taken care of. The double standard mindset is obvious. Serena seems to be transactional and needs to win. Nate, are you listening? When/if children enter the scene, be prepared, Nate, to negotiate everything "parenting"--even after stressful nights in the world of medicine. My hope is that Serena takes more time to practice "change" before the two walk down the aisle.
Nate, you better run! Run before you start making that 300k
why? she extremely cautious about spending, she doesn't even ask for anything or spend on herself. So you are recommending that she pays 60% of the rent and support him as much as she can, and then after all that, he should leave her just because....
Incel mentality.
Serena is selfish. Point blank.
unless nate is completely okay being a doormat (and sugar daddy -.-) for the rest of this relationship/future marriage this is not going to end well. many other comments have covered the red flags, like the extremely demeaning sugar baby joke and cutting him off. i would add to the latter that he talks something like 5 times this entire 44 minutes (very similar stats in part 1 if you don't count the time nate spends directly answering ramit's background info questions), and she still cuts him off.
ramit - would be interesting to see a time spent speaking pie chart breakdown. there have been quite a few episodes where one person dominates the conversation for one reason or another. this one was particularly telling to me showing the dysfunction in this relationship. of course, it could entirely be that they are perfect together in their dysfunctional puzzle-piecing life, but it is objectively dysfunctional nonetheless. glad they tried to talk it out here but i don't know if she will ever truly learn to be less selfish and work with nate as a team. the MD salary could just put a big bandaid over the surface money divvy issues but will not change who they are as people.
I didn`t even watch the whole thing and was already thinking: why isn`t he talking?? I`ve seen this type of "relationship" a lot of times, elsewhere and in my family, too, it`s often professionally very accomplished men (business owner, professor in physics, heart surgeon, engineer) married to extremely controlling women. While they`re very succesful in their jobs they`re total wusses at home and let their "wives" spray venom all the time, often unknowingly.
She’s not being open about her gender roles expectations. Being from Asia, men take care of their women financially. She’s selfish, worries about being taken care of… yes, but that’s out of her comfort zone and not what she’s been taught. To avoid these kind of issues, live separately until married, and that if you’re willing to support each other. You can’t want to live like a Western woman but still want a traditional Asian man. Pick one.
she can do whatever she wants.
@@voguehaven5154and she can also be single, or find someone in her culture. Plenty of Asian doctors,here and abroad.
I I am ethnically African but born and raised in USA. There are conflicting ideas about money and gender roles but I think there is no problem blending the two points of view as long as your partner is on the same page. These two don't look on the same page at all.
People try to control in order to feel safe.
I agree. I’m from here (U.S) but my family had traditional gender roles. My Dad worked and took care of the entire house. It does feel scary in todays climate with the 50/50 rule, not even because the money, but the mentality. It seems fragile for some reason
excellent episode. So great to hear breakthroughs in real time.
I'd be so interested to hear some different types of relationships apart from just couple. A parent and child for example. so often in these episodes there is left over baggage from how we were raised. Interested to see this explored in this format.
I feel bad for Nate - as we all seem to do, but some people just like being treated badly.
I loved part 1 & part 2. They were extreamly honest & brave.
34:01 Be careful Nate. Even after these two episodes and after all of these long discussions to get her to open her eyes, Serena's intuition is still to try to negotiate and nickel and dime you after she's well aware of the situation. It constantly takes Ramit (a neutral third party) having to point out these things to her and ask her the difficult questions before she finally gives in and realizes that these very obvious decisions she makes are fucked up. It blows my mind that you are making half her income and you're going to school to be a doctor and will very soon be making $325k and it's like she doesn't want to realize that you would obviously pay back the favor in spades. Let's be real here, after a couple of years, youre going to be making 10x what you're making now. It's ridiculous that Serena is not taking advantage of this short time period to help you out as much as possible in these very tiring and arduous times while you do your residency. It blows my mind how it doesn't dawn on her, that by her tksing care of you right now, you are going to change her life and take care of her for the rest of her life. I mean, lets face it, youre probably going to pay 85 to 90% of the mortgage, travel, and so many other expenses...for THE REST OF YOUR LIVES. And here she is, pestering you weekly about when you're going to pay her back the $3k for the trip that she wanted to drag you along to that she very well knew you couldn't afford. She should have 100% covered this trip especially since she knows that youll be taking care of her for the rest of her life. But she's so selfish/greedy, that she needs all of that money back tomorrow despite your very obvious situation. And considering that it was a trip that SHE essentially forced you to come on. It's incredibly selfish. Not to mention the rent split. And even after opening her eyes a bit, her intuition was still to go 60/40 after Ramit asked for 65/35 which is more than fair for like what, a year or two? What a small sacrifice for her to make for what you'll give her in return for the rest of her life. There's definitely some underlying greed/selfish/life sucker type vibes there. Im sorry, there's too many red flags man. They keep popping up over and over and over throughout these two episodes. If you decide to stick around, good luck man, but she doesn't deserve you.
tbh this was hard to watch. I think finance is so important to talk about and this is the first episode I've seen where I really think they should end things. I honestly get the vibe that the only reason she is staying with him because of his earning potential. Not saying she's a bad person but I don't get the vibe that she cares about him or is in a place to think about the other person or be supportive. She needs to likely seek some therapy before trying to be a partner and Nate also needs to work on asserting himself some more because he's digging himself in a deeper hole financially only for her and is too uncomfortable to push back.
How can someone remind their partner for the money they owe every week, despite being engaged? Especially when it's for a trip that she planned. I bet if it was up to Nate he wouldn't go because he knows he couldn't afford it. It's mind blowing to me. She is a big red flag.
I really appreciate your commentary at the end. It's validating to hear you articulate some of what I was thinking! I guess it's always easier to see things clearly from outside the situation.
LOL this totally adds WAY MORE context to part one
Run Nate run. She didn't show any signs of wanting to change. The sugar baby comment is a huge red flag.
Either add a more constructive comment or I will remove this. It takes a lot of courage to come on this show. Short, pointless comments like yours do nothing to advance the conversation. If you disagree with what you heard, tell us why. Be specific. Otherwise, this will be removed.
@@ramitsethi Thanks for the diligent work in making this a constructive comments section! I’ve wished for a place to discuss episodes with other listeners, and it’s clear it will take some real admin work to keep it constructive. Thanks to you/whoever on the IWT team is making this happen.
If I was Nate’s mother, I would cry. I fear my child would be in a controlling lifeless relationship.
Oh Nate… what can I say? You remind me of my husband 10 years ago. So cute, so sweet, so much potential etc and lands on this one relationship where she has very strong and rigid beliefs based on her foreign upbringing. Her need to control because culturally that might have not been the case for her growing up. Ugh, Serena reminds me of myself 10 years ago. So controlling, some trauma based on foreign social norms etc, so needy to be a woman that is perceived as strong and unwavering unfortunately not thinking in the long term and seeing Nate as the partner he is. She’s not used to being a team and that may take some time but she needs to continue going to therapy. AND if she doesn’t feel challenged by her therapist she needs to change that therapist. Anyway, she can work on it and they’ll both benefit from it. I think it would help them to have a joint account (that was something I myself not wanted to bulge lol for a long time) so she can stop trying to see their relationship as their business partners rather than a couple who love each other.
Nate… you need to sit down with yourself and have a conversation about whether or not you’re willing to put up for the rest of your life with her controlling nature if she doesn’t change. You don’t have to be in a relationship like that, it gets harder before it gets better. In my situation, I changed but it was years before I could see the light and I must say the new me hates what my husband put up with for such a long time. Also, not everyone changes… so consider your risk to your time investment into this relationship.
She’s not a bad person but she IS controlling and that can take a toll. Consider your time frame. You’re a good and patient guy.
Best of luck!
He very responsibly said multiple times, “I can’t afford that.” She refused to listen & then punished him for not being able to afford things.
Also, she has disposable income *because* she’s not paying things in proportion with their incomes. She refuses to do so & then is upset he has no money.
The poor dude is working so hard at his profession. He needs a teammate - not to be harassed for things he admitted he can’t do.
I wasn’t going to comment but the follow up killed me.
This sounds like Financial Abuse to me.
He allows her to talk him into doing things he cannot afford to do and then punishes him for it. Ramit did not dig into his background at all and why he feels like this kind of treatment is okay and tolerable. It’s evident he wants to do for her but she is not willing to do the same for him.
It struck me odd when she said, “people are probably like, he’s a doctor and she’s a…well…I don’t know.” Seemed to me like she is struggling with the lack of control she will have when he’s the main earner and what her place will be, so she is constantly making him feel less than while she has the chance.
He earns 35% of income and he’s paying over 5% of his income, meaning he still cannot contribute in any other way. Yet, they are still going out and paying 50/50 or drinks and food. So he is in the negative more than 5%.
Why is he okay with this arrangement when it is to his detriment. I’m so curious about how his family dynamic with money is. A better arrangement would be 80/20 and then he can cover her when they go out and she can have that taken care of feeling she craves.
I hope for him he can learn to set boundaries and make himself a priority. This does not seem l healthy at all and the issues go way beyond money. She interrupts him when he speaks, she talks over him firmly with her thoughts. There is clearly a lack of respect. I truly pray Nate learns his worth and his feelings matter. ❤
They are not ready for the financial and emotional commitment of marriage.
Wait until he's done residency. The conversation will be different then.
It’s “yours” and “mine” before marriage and “ours” after marriage. So many comments on this without acknowledging this very simple premise. I they had been married, then it would have been very different. That point was not addressed at all.
Control, judgmental and ambitious!! I always wonder why these couples are even together. When people show you who they are believe them the first time. She’s talking so much and she’s already planning on him paying more in the future. She has to be interrupted just for him to finish a sentence. He’s so grateful and it’s just so sad but will she really change . How do these people connect ?? Sugar baby ??? Really this is so sad. I hope he meets someone at the residency before the tie the knot and she’ll demand every nickel she spent on him
Get out quick Nate, you will regret it id you don’t. She’s so selfish….her money is her money till you earn more!
Would be great to revisit this couple and get an update and see whats changed in a yr, if anything.
Slightly off-topic, Ramit. Where did you learn these coaching skills? I’d like to learn! I love the idea of helping people this way.
I believe he has a Bachelor's and Master's in Psychology.
Nate needs to speak up and set boundaries on what's actually financially fair in this relationship. Serena's actions speak louder than words about her selfishness. How can you ask him on a weekly basis to pay back 3k, when it was your idea to take him on this vacation and know 90% of his paycheck is being spent on rent (because u won't move out), and on top of that, your idea to go out and eat but he gotta pay most time. I hope you learn to love him more with your action before your future high-income husband leaves. Not saying u can't survive without him, but u said you want to be taken care of, thus he can be the one to do it. I say if you really love each other and know u going to be married and be forever together, combine that income then. No one should be saying u owe me money, it's both yours. Cause then his money is yours and yours is his, and all the debt belongs to both of you guys. I'm a child of refugee parents, so I get it. I'm a control freak also with the checklist and planners. But that does not give me a reason to give my partner the financial burden. Combine that money so you can control his too, just like me...lol j.k on that last one. 🤫😅😄. Thank you Rumeet, I really 100% agreed with your closing ending.
She is NOT the one bro! "Don't do it. Reconsider, read some liteture on the subject..."
Nate is a damn saint .... holy shit. Dude is busting his ass commuting several hours a day, and probably working at least 70 hours a week. They stay in an apartment that he can't afford while he daily is risking his life by driving sleep deprived and under constant financial stress, only to come home to a fiance' who grills him about a debt she knows he can't pay, that she loaned him to visit HER family. There's no chance in hell this man would be travelling internationally at this stage in life if he wasn't with Serena.
she's totally comfortable exploiting him for more than his fair share of rent and meals, while she works from home (YEAH, SHE COULD LITERALLY WORK ANYWHERE) and stresses internally about buying a computer that she doesn't really need to make her life marginally better. Part of generous is forgiving a debts, and splitting expenses. A bigger and more important part is caring for your SO's mental health and physical well-being. $600 on gas at $4.00/gallon is 150 gallons used per month. Assuming Nate works 26 days per month (residency sucks) at 35 mpg that's a 100 MILE COMMUTE EACH WAY. That's at least 3 extra hours in the car per workday when he's already working what is likely a 12 hour shift. This is EXTREMELY, EXTREMELY DANGEROUS AND UNNECESSARY.
My brother Nate if you're watching run.
Growing up in an immigrant house hold myself, i understand her view on money and I myself have a lot of anxities on money but it also makes me have more compassion towards others when it comes to money. I hope that instead of using her background to push her partner into financial ruin, she'll use her experience to be more compassionate towards her partner, especially if she wants to be with him long term.
Everybody should sign a prenup before marriage. People think signing a prenup means you don't trust each other but its the opposite. Signing a prenup means that money is out of the equation when it comes to love and there is no ill-intentions involved. A prenup also forces each person's finances (debt and assets) to be transparent for both to see. I've had friends who didn't found out about the other's person debt until they got married without a prenup and now their spouse's debt become theirs also. Just food for thought.
Seems like theres not a lot of common sense nor a lot of common courtesy between the finances from Serena. I am not married or in a relationship by any means, but if my partner wants to contribute towards finances then the obvious thing would be to split everything proportionally. If I am making more money, why would I take advantage of someone that is working hard and not making as much money. I am also an immigrant as well with Indian parents so there is not a lot of excuses pulling that card out. Either you care about your partner in that aspect or you don't. Finances between the two partners don't need to be that difficult and the worst part is that they're not even in the time of theirs lives where they are buying a house or having children, etc. I am not sure if Nate has done this, but he needs to tell it how it is, he is not making enough money and also working resident hours, why would he want to get nagged into paying Serena back about something so miniscule. And if the behavior doesn't change by Serena, it seems like this relationship won't be last. No one is your person, even with an engagement ring, if you don't take care of them and don't see the future with them. Also when going to therapy, it's best to not talk about your issues , but be aware about what you are doing outside of therapy. If you having anxiety, find solutions to mitigate that. If you are a control freak, find ways to let go of certain behaviors or be aware of the tendencies. Easy said than done, but it seems like Serena hasn't gotten to that step yet. 7 years is a long time to be in relationship and to get to know someone, I am not sure if Nate gave up on that aspect of the relationship, but is he fine with being nagged or controlled almost by Serena? How is his mental health especially coming from a 60-80 hour work week or a 12-16 hour day and not being able to relax and feel tense all the time? Hope that there can be a change in their relationship for the better. It seems like there are a lot of holes that exposed on this episode. Maybe something both partners need to address to each other. Talking about money was the catalyst I guess.
👏🏆 top comment
I agree with the conclusion. It’s simple to write down what 50% is for each and thats what you contribute to rent. That’s a very challenging thing to apply though.
I hope their behaviors keep improving and growing together
HER money is HER money. HIS money is THEIR money typical 🤦🏾♂️
Not until they are married. He's getting more out of the relationship most likely. She cooks, she cleans, probably does his laundry, provides in the bedroom, all so he can focus on completely his residency. and now she's paying 60% of the rent. And they are not even married....lol.
She's taking on a massive risk imo. But men really want a woman to do all this, and eventually dump her after he starts making 300k...
Serena is smart and being very careful. So yes, her money is her money until they are married and there is a legal safety net. And as far as his money, he doesn't have hardly anything right now.
From a logical stand point, it makes sense for her to put in the investment now, cooking, cleaning, pay 60% of the rent, in hopes that when they get married and he starts making 31k per month, it would cover everything, and they could invest efficiently.
Yet most men would still call her a gold digger, because why should a woman expect anything but struggle love from a man that can't make ends meet...right?
@@voguehaven5154 She can pay 60% of the expenses in a relationship she sees longevity in or 100% of her expenses and be single. They are both benefiting from this weird dynamic. If she had better relationship prospects (a man who's already bringing it in), she'd most likely opt for that.
the original issue of the 3k loan was never addressed… why is this? What did they do about that?
This episode was really interesting and showed a lot of growth but felt unfinished.
32:09 I love the clipboard question. If I were observing you with a clipboard for a day, what would I notice about your money habits?
Nate, if you see this comment, broooooooo PLEEEEEEEEEEEEEZ get either a bullet-proof pre-nup OR drop her RIGHT NOW! She is a classic gold digger and would drop you in a heartbeat and get half of your future salary and assets while quitting her job, citing she "supported" you throughout your medical career (which she OBVIOUSLY isn't doing) and her hardships throughout her life. This is a textbook case of a gold digger just waiting it out till you reach your finish line. Make NO mistake. She will leave you the moment you apply her own "current" rules on her in 3 years. She doesn't see you as a life partner. You're just a tag along till she finds someone who earns more. A segway, but I believe based on these two interveiws and her ruthless nature, she will have three divorces and might be able to bag an eight or nine figure guy by the time she is in her early-mid 50s and then she will "settle down" - whatever that means by that time.
And to be honest, $80k not a lot of money - a number she repeated a LOT and kept throwing at your face, calling it "SIGNIFICANTLY" more than what you earn. In my industry, quarterly bonuses are over 200k. Her entire salary is a high end dinner tab in NYC. Not something to brag about. In her priority list, you were nowhere there. Not even at the botton. Her "person" was not on her list. I can't even wrap my head around this. This is a wrap unfortunately... I am from NYC and I have never seen such a cunning and ruthless person in over two decades tha I have lived here. She is a an angry wolf in sheeps clothing. Acting cute when it suits her and daggers out the moment she doesnt feel like it.
I really hope you find someone who actually supports you Nate! All the best and early congratulations on your future graduation (I may not see this video ever again - I can't stand Serena - hopefully by this time you guys are not together).
Amen to that!
Incel
I loved this episode! I feel like @ramitsethi did a great job navigating their problems and getting them to realize what needs to be done, from an emotional perspective. It would've been super easy to do the video in 10 min by just saying "split things 65/35" and be done, but digging this deep will certainly be better for them in the long run. No hate on Serena or Nate, I love that they have shown great progress in just 1hr. Great job!
She is a control freak. It stems from her childhood. She would be controlling about everything, not just money.
I sure hope Nate has moved on from her. This is such a bad situation all around.
If the only reason she came to an epiphany was because the numbers looked “pretty fucked up “then Nate my friend you have a lot more problems ahead of you. She isn’t oblivious she is just selfish. Let her go Nate. Youll save yourself a world of pain.
Listening to this stresses me out. I feel for Nate - it is very clear she expects to be pampered and does not intend to contribute much financially to their future life together. She’s only sticking it out for now because she sees an easy life for herself in the future. It doesn’t sound like they have a mutual relationship.
Or maybe she loves him.
@@voguehaven5154 do you ask the person you love to give back 3k $ every week ?! even when you know that person is broke !!
Serena is treating Nate like a boyfriend, and he wants to be treated as a spouse (someone who gets full support, commitment and trust from their partner in life). But he IS a boyfriend at this point. Spouses share all their worldly goods, hopes and dreams and fully support one another. You can't expect that level of commitment from a roommate, even a fiance. Serena has taken a lot of criticism in the comments, but I sympathize with her. Without marriage, she has no legal rights and no longterm commitment. It makes sense that she's uncomfortable with investing large amounts of money in the relationship. Once his residency is over, he could walk away. Living together isn't the same as being married; if you want to be treated like a spouse, you must become one.
Some of what your saying is fair, I totally get the stuff about him walking away later. But the conclusion is they dont need to be together. He should pay her the 3k back, and leave.
I wonder how Serena would feel about signing a prenup? It seems like she’s just waiting for that lottery check to cash and live off it, but isn’t willing to hold Nate down in the meantime. I really wish they discussed the topic of a prenup.
Yes 100%
You are deluding yourself if you think she is gonna suddenly change these deeply ingrained attitudes after the ceremony. She is not.
"I have never really thought of Nate as, like, a really important person in my life". What else can you say? She said it in her own words clear as day. Some people just feel comfortable being stepped on, and that's where Nate is. I've met guys like him. The fear of having to find someone new is more terrifying to them than the abuse.
I thought of another option for these two: Serena could voluntarily live on the same amount Nate earns-if she limited herself to $45-50k living expenses, that would eliminate the lifestyle disparity between their two incomes. She could use the money she’s not spending on her expenses to pay down her student loans and beef up her retirement savings. This would reduce the tension in their relationship, it would provide her with a solid financial position that would benefit them both down the line, and her personally if the relationship doesn’t work out in the end. Perhaps that’s the genesis of her concern-she wouldn’t be the first woman to support her “person” during expensive post-graduate education, only to be dumped when he starts making real money. I’m not saying that’s what Nate is going to do, but it has happened before.
She’s obviously resistant to Ramit’s proportional income model, and part of me understands that, as she doesn’t yet have the security of a legal marriage commitment.
I wholeheartedly agree with the other comments that express concern for her selfishness-she really is something else-but if her control issues truly stem from fear for her future, this option would reduce that tension.
First she offered to pay his way after he told her he just could not afford the trip to Asia, and then is hounding him every opportunity she gets about when can he pay her back before he can even decompress after a day of work!? Then he seems to communicate at every instance that he can’t afford to pay for dinner or a night out but still insists he pay half. She makes 2x what he does and wants him to pay half, but if the shoe were on the other foot she would expect him to pay all the bills. He seems mentally drained and lacks the energy it would take to voice what he’s been expressing about his finances. In life and partnership sometimes you will have to fill in the gap where our partner is unable to. She has not been thoughtful, considerate or supportive of where he is right now today. I hope she gains more insight into herself and her control enough to release it and be to him what she herself wants. You cannot expect to receive something you are not will to give.