Hey Captain. I will be doing a video on whether or not I would buy a Leopard again. There might be a way to avoid what Travel Sketch, myself and many non-youtube owners have experienced. Thanks for your support
Thank you for having the courage to do these videos. The truth about big boat building companies needs to be told so that others don't have to go through what you and other owners have gone through.
Thanks for the heads-up. We sincerely do it for other boaties and potential boaties, as well as in the hope that we can avoid long drawn out legal action
There is a Australian couple who bought a leopard catamaran and it has been a nightmare for them .They have a UA-cam channel and leopard to me are no more than criminals .
Yes, we know them . . . . Travel Sketch. We chat from time to time. They are lovely people who have had a far more rotten deal than we have. Trent is big on ensuring that their experiences can help other owners. Thanks for your comment
t is my opinion that you are 110% correct about the rust. Its not fixing or repairing anything. Its cleaning and/or replacing/rectifying the damage caused by a failure of the boat sealing - its entire purpose is - ( water outside, air inside ). If my new house roof leaks, and causes damage to the house interior, the business that incorrectly installed the roof must provide full compensation, rectification , repair or replacement of the damage to the standard that was in situ prior to the roof failure.
We hadn't thought of the hull in terms of the roof of a house but you are totally correct that both are there to keep water out. Thanks for your logical comment and support
This entire series is completely unfathomable that Leopard treats you like this! Travel Sketch UA-cam seemed like a warning, but the more I dig, the more it seems that the Leopard warranty is designed to deter claims and frustrate owners into covering faulty installations and designs so that they pay out of pocket. It's funny that I just received an email from leopard for a 2024 launch leopard 50 at discount - hard to believe they think someone spending over a million won't find stories like this. How can they defend themselves honestly in light of the evidence!? Good luck to you!
Thanks for your support Ryan. You are correct about Leopard warranty being designed to deter claims. We have met many new owners that simply gave up and took the burn themselves. There sales are way down at the moment and they are offering huge discounts to try move boats. On a Leopard 50. I expect one could do the deal with close to a $250k discount off of $999k price tag. Kevin
Cross Leopard of my list of cruising boats. Also, you are absolutely right, if they can’t get it to work correctly, he absolutely needs to make you whole.
Thank you for shining a light on the Leopard warranty process. Lots of things we like about Leopards, but we would have a hard time purchasing one given the number of issues you and others have experienced and the lack of warranty follow up by the company.
Social media has been a blessing, of sorts, for owners and a bane for manufacturers. IMO, if it were not for the prevalence of NDA’s that owners are coerced to sign in return for repairs, social media would be replete with more of these cases and would likely include nearly all builders.
Thanks for your reply. You are correct. Without social media we would currently be in a far longer drawn out legal process. We might end up that way anyway, depending on our meeting the Vice President of Leopard at Annapolis in October AND their management of Utopia when she is with them to fix, in Ft Lauderdale in November. There are many owners that we met in the Caribbean that simply gave up trying to get their warranty honoured. They were not on UA-cam. Really lousy to see. We hope that as well as getting Utopia sorted, we can help some owners along the way, Stay tuned 🙂
I feel your pain. Ever since I started following your FB page and Travel Sketch, I have written off Leopard catamaran. I can no longer recommend them to my clients.
Hey John, thanks for your reply. We will be doing exactly that episode. Legally we'd be skating on thin ice if we told people on UA-cam not to buy Leopards buy. However we can say whether we would again or not. So one of our forth coming episodes will be about just that: "Would we buy a Leopard again" It happens to be scheduled around the time of the Annapolis Boat Show. What business are you in?
Hi Matthew, protecting and informing existing owners and prospective owners is a primary part of our goal. We wish we had had this info before choosing a Leopard. Can you believe that we have actually had a handful of owners complain to say that we are devaluing their Leopards. They seem unable to understand that Leopard have devalued their boats and that if Leopard began to do the right thing, their boats would re-value. Thanks for your support. Kevin & Melinda
I don't have a catamaran, but I've researched the builders. There is a collection of facts on the internet that tells the true about Leopard. The truth is....never buy a Leopard. New or used. How do people keep buying these vessels is beyond me. The infor is easy to see.
I am so disappointed and frankly angry about this Leopard disaster. As an South African expat living in North America, I’ve always felt proud of one more supposed worldclass ‘success’ story out of my motherland. It now seems it was all a chimera. I am in fact looking to buy my third sailboat in the next few years and a cat was on the list. We also have thought the new Leopard designs ‘appears’ very attractive. Needless to say, I have completely given up on Leopard as even a consideration. Just like certain European boats with a reputation for keels falling off, WHY would one ever take the risk of purchasing from a company with apparent poor quality control. Something very very bad happened with the QC at this company. I hope they will be able to recover from these recent incredibly bad publicity. That will take years however. A reputation destroyed does NOT get fixed overnight.
in Australia, consumer law protects the user by a warranty that regardless of manufactures warranty a product MUST BE FIT FOR SERVICE .a period that is reasonable expectation.
Gday Mate, so Glad to see your back I thought you may have taken a cheque 💵 💵 from 🐆 for NDS!!! Please don't stop the videos you are helping so many people including us (as crazy as it seems we Love the 🐆 design). We hope you get some/all of your issues sorted at JustCats 🤞 it's such a shame that leopard 🐆 workmanship and quality is so poor and bad for the exorbitant price they charge for these vessels they should be the best of the best and you guys should be enjoying your Beautiful investment not Fighting with a joke of a coperate company that refuses look after its customers, put more focus on Quality Control and Own the facts that there products are not up to standard. Keep up the good work on the videos mate and we look fwd to your up and coming videos. Cheers Mick & Nikki 🇦🇺
Hey Mick and Nikki, thanks for your kind support. Actually, Leopard have now refunded our costs for the work that we did in the Caribbean. I would say that the VP is the person responsible for that decision. We have heard less than ideal things about his attitude but good things about his ethics. So hopefully when we meet him in October in Annapolis, he will agree to attend to all the warranty issues in Ft Lauderdale in November. Hopefully they are professional with the work but I think that might be too much hope to hold on to. Of course, that payment doesn't cover the lost season and all the costs associated with chasing around the Caribbean, after tradies. Our issue with Leopard now is the remaining warranty work. We want them to attend to all of at the one stop at their Ft Lauderdale facility in November but they are holding back and pulling back on some of it, even though we have had to sail and motor so far for it. Leopard agreed to handle the alternators through Just Cats, which is a biggie. And don't worry, I would never sign an NDA. Once Leopard does the job properly, there will eventually be no longer need to focus on warranty. In fact, if they handle it well, that's what will be reported on UA-cam. We simply convey what happens but they don't seem to realise that. In fact, we tend to tone it down a bit, so that we can't be accused of exaggerating, or the like. We absolutely will keep on with videos, regardless of Leopards warranty. Check out the schedule near the end of the video that Melinda talks about. Take care, Kevin & Melinda
This is egregious treatment, yet again. Look at how Seawind takes care of issues for owners vs Leopard. No comparison. I am in the market for purchase with a 3yr timeline and I can guarantee my dollars are not going to a Leopard
I've run my own business for a total of nearly 30 years. In fact my business model is very very similar to the one that Leopard and Seawind use i.e. my design and had 3rd party factories make the product. So, I know that you are correct about the difference between the way Seawind and Leopard run their warranty. I can bet Seawinds business is not down to the extent that Leopards is. It is to do with two things 1. The way that warranty is managed (structure & processes) 2. Managements attitude. in this case arrogance. Both points derive from the company’s upper management. Clearly, they, unlike Seawind have issue with mid and upper management. Somebody needs a firing. Thanks for your comment
Leopard really are a risible entity and Robertson and Kane are out and out mavericks. They should be reported to the classification organisation and the insurance companies. Hope you get all your stuff sorted and all your expenses and refunds honoured.👍
Thanks for your reply Norman. I have wondered if there is some sort of ombudsman for the leisure marine industry. I’ll be sure to cover that if we find one that we can approach
Hey Lars, you are 100% correct ! That is a very fair definition of a scam. This is why we won't take it lying down. It feels awful to know that you are on the receiving end of a scam. Even though we have gone through what we have gone through . . . . . the pain, the agony and more than one season lost already, our goal is to get rid of that awful feeling. One way, or the other, we will. So stay tuned-in to either a proper fix in Ft Lauderdale in November 🙂 . . . . or a different much longer process which we would have tried our best to avoid 😞
Didn't their Leopard go up in flames? (not apportioning blame) Apologies if I have the wrong boat but I think these guys went on to by a different design.
@@ssmith4045 Leopard helped them out with a second leopard(show boat) while they are building their new cat. Which is why they don't want to burn any bridges.
O my! Definitely Leopard catamaran will be out of my list of possible catamarans. Is a nightmare spending millions in a boat with so many issues and bad responses from the manufacturer and their dealers. No,no.
Hey Abraham, thanks for our comment which is exactly right ! Spend such big money should not amount to such bad treatment. Obviously it should be the opposite. Shortly we will be doing a video about whether we would buy a Leopard again. Watch that first before making a decision 🙂
Mate, what a horror story . . . to answer your question: If they can't provide a perfectly working FLIR camera on the THIRD occasion, you are absolutely entitled to a refund. You are also entitled to working alternators too!
How are Leopard still selling boats? Clearly based on all the owners with ongoing issues it will effect confidence in their product and market appeal. 😮
@@ssmith4045 No, they are still selling some boats to private owners but I have had inside word that their sales are down badly due to the negative market feedback. This is backed up by the fact that they are throwing huge discounts at people to entice them to buy boats. In Road Town in the BVI, we recently saw first-hand, exactly how badly they treat their charter boats that they then sell on. We have shocking video footage which morally we should publish. But it is so bad that I am not sure that I could bring myself to do it. Thanks for your support
Leopard was always on my list of possible Catamarans…in the future? I thought it was Lagoon that has had structural problems and possibly to be avoided? This is pretty significant given the reach utubers have!
If it is the case that you need to have more frequent videos, then I recommend you consider posting shorter videos (even just 5 ~ 12 minutes) weekly so that you keep up the social media pressure. Maybe consider also posting some 30 second shorts that highlight each of the repair issues. All the best for you and all other Leopard owners!
The RV industry suffers these same issues from manufacturing defects and poor engineering designs. On the water you cannot pull over and call for a repairman.
Hey Cecil, you got me laughing about RV-ers being able to pull over . . . . so yes, it seems that they have a big advantage over us cruisers but I can't imagine that the warranty issues in that industry are as bad as Leopards. The reason I say this is the structure and processes at Leopard are totally whacked. Before Christmas, one of the episodes that we will put up is "Why Leopards warranty is an owner’s nightmare". I ran my own businesses for a total of nearly 30 years and sold them for good money. In fact my business model is very very similar to the one that Leopard use i.e. my design and had 3rd party factories make the product. Their warranty issues are is to do with two things (assuming integrity is not one of them) 1. The way that warranty is managed (structure & processes) 2. Managements attitude. in this case arrogance. Both points derive from the company’s upper management. Clearly, they have issue with upper management. Somebody needs a firing. Take care Mate. Kevin
Gotta wonder why anyone would buy these brand of Cats these days after all the horror stories on UA-cam. Actually I can't understand how the company is still afloat (excuse the pun 🙂) with all the claims. Best wishes that it all get resolved.
I watch a lot of cruising channels and all who have purchased a boat from a factory brand have stacks of issues out of the factory. I’m convinced a custom built alloy cat is better and when the only person one can blame for anything crap going on is thyself.
Thanks for your reply Brady. I have always wanted to design my own aluminum Cat. Do you know of a good builder? My email is kevindeanferreira@outlook.com
@@sailing_utopia Stradbroke in Ausy who are building Delis 2.0. (They have a custom De Villiers). Couple of places in NZ, there is a stack in Vietnam and Cambodia too
Very ironic name for your boat, I have owned a couple of top brand power boats and cannot believe the lack of proper smart design and shoddy workmanship. I’ll soon be out of the boat ownership life due to age and kinda look forward to this change because of the headaches.
Hopefully your videos will loose them way more chash in lost sales than refunding you. Well done so happy when the small guy wins against the big nasty bully, make them pay big! We are all on your side go for it bro really make them cough.
Thanks George. I only want them to do what they should do i.e. the warranty work that they are directly responsible for. However, if they refuse some of it, they will pay for all the costs they have caused us to incur. We don't want that because it implies lengthy legal processes and frankly speaking, we'd much rather live our lives at see, enjoying the ocean
Ive commented the exact same thing to Travel Sketch and I will now post it to you. What will you when your warranty runs out nd all the fixes they did fail and you know there will ba many other problems found which you will then have to pay for. How are you still dealing with this after 1.5 years. I would not stand for this. They must have dozens if not hundreds of lawsuits against them.
Thanks for your comment. It is horrible. It was our dream but it's been our nightmare ! We are hoping that all will come right from our meeting with the Vice President of Leopard at Annapolis in October AND their management of Utopia when she is with them to fix, in Ft Lauderdale in November. We think that their management of the warranty repairs will be a nightmare because we don't think they are a professional company. We really hope to be proven wrong. Also, word has it that the VP is arrogant. On the other hand, word has it that the VP is a person of integrity. We'll just have to wait and see.
Thanks for your comment Frank. There are good manufacturers as well as these bad ones. I hear that Seawind are a good one. Sometimes it is not just the warranty problems with the boat but instead the issue is the people that should be attending to the warranty problems
Sue!!! Sue!!! These Cat builders need to get their stuff togeather!! They are hurting their businesses when all theses UA-camrs are sharing their problems.. Cat builders better take care of their customers!!!
The stress this would be putting on couples / owners is mind blowing. 😢 How often do we see and hear of major issues with Leopard yachts? Way too often. Always DUCK AND DODGE….poor behaviour from a company that provides a product for people to fulfil dreams, not nightmares! Personally wouldn’t be looking at giving them my hard earned cash if I was in the market.
Thanks for your support. You are totally correct. Our first season in the Caribbean was a nightmare, not a pleasure ! You are also correct about Leopard ducking and dodging. In fact I can honestly say that the issues might have even been borderline acceptable if Leopard had handled them properly with integrity and efficiency and genuine customer concern. Instead they have really tried to dodge the issues.
Not a yachtie nor do I own a leopard, don't think I'd want to after watching some of these, love your frank language😆, sounds like a complete run-around involving duck-shoving a problem elsewhere and no one having the stones to just say it up front
What is the brokers authority in I assume representing the manufacrurer of your boat? IS he an idependent contractor or an employee of the manufacturer?
It's heartbreaking to see the things which new boat owners are having to put up with. I have a random question, i will be sailing from Cape Town to Grenada early next year i was wondering if you had any suggestions on how easy it is to get crew in Cape Town ?
I did not see if you had prior experience with ocean crossing yachts, so my following comments might be a bit sharp but if they help others who are contemplating buying a yacht to retire on and sail the world, then we will both have done our bit to guide them. I note Leopard was sold last year to a Czech Investment fund, so perhaps that is part of the reason for your current difficulties. Having looked over a couple of Leopards in recent years my opinion is that they are like a caravan; suitable for smooth water sailing but totally unsuitable for ocean crossings. Having just looked at some of your earlier videos I see there is a theme of issues with the boat and issues with the warranty offered from the company. From personal experience South Africa has never been considered a centre of industrial leisure boat excellence, so in my own opinion the only people that would consider buying one of their boats are the naive wantabes who have no experience or knowledge in understanding the important items to look for in an ocean crossing vessel, and fall for the caravan full of gadgets that you would find in most caravan parks around the western world. I wish you the best of luck with finally getting the quality issues resolved satisfactorily.
Thanks for your reply. Actually, the issues have existed before they sold to the Czech company about 18 months ago but since the two original owners stepped out of the company. We knew that we were buying a caravan. It was want we wanted because we would be at anchor for upward of 95% of the time. They are very heavy boats, so definitely not performance oriented. Even though we knew it when we bought it, while sailing, I find myself yearning for a proper performance boat. Thank you for your well wishes
mmmm...you might be wrong in saying, "South Africa has never been considered a centre of industrial leisure boat excellence"...They have Xquisite(Tamas the owner has pride in his company and after service) Kinetic, Knysna, St Francis to mention a few...but that is high end yachts so you need the money. I think Leopard is in the same class as Lagoon, with their own issues.
Oh my god I was just about to push the button to buy a leopard after I decided not to go with Fontaine Peugeot for similar reasons who puts plastic hinges on new cats it’s like they’ve been designed by the Accountant not by someone who sails on an ocean. I’m so glad I’ve just seen this video. This is the last straw from hearing these production boats not building to quality for liver boards. I will leave it now as a toss up between HH 44 and, sea wind. I think following manufacturers that watch and work with UA-camrs to continually improve their boats are gonna be the winners in these coming years for boards like myself. Good luck guys sorry to hear you’ve had so much problems on utopia kind of ironic. Maybe things would improve if you renamed it dystopia.
If the accountants were designing them they would be built properly as long term that is a lot cheaper than endless repairs and destruction of your brand value. The decision to behave like this comes right from the top. Who are the ultimate owners of Leopard? It sounds like they are just asset stripping cash out of the brand. something that you expect from venture capital but the boat industry is funny. A lot of very arrogant and ignorant boat building companies out their. Finding a brand that can be trusted that can be afforded by those who are not extremely well off is getting harder and harder.
@@peteroleary162 well said I apologise to all those accountants out there that work in the voting industry on the plus side I think this is the great influence from UA-cam is that is exposes or brings to light cow and where these Industries need to improve to win us over and compete
@@ciaran8025 Thanks. To be honest there are good accountants and bad accountants just like any other profession. The reality is that businesses that want to succeed and be profitable long term focus on things like build quality and customer service because those are the things that drive repeated sales. There is obviously something going on with with Leopard, the outsourced builder or both and whatever it is is being driven from the highest levels of the business. As the old saying goes, the fish rots from the top.
Leopards reputation is in the toilet. Pity as I have been on a few Leopard charters and always liked the boats. For the money they charge there are far better options available. Also one should purchase in a country with serious consumer laws like Australia, that wouldn't fly here. The brokering business would have to cover I would hope. Not sure if you bought in SA direct? Anyway I'm so sorry for your experience turning a dream into a nightmare and at great financial and emotional cost not to mention the time wasted. When you spend that sort of money you deserve some old fashioned service but nowadays it's profit before pride. Fair Winds.
Thanks for your comment. You are correct: to go on a charter on a Leopard is fine. Beyond that, maybe not so much. The boat contract was with the USA. The boat was sold by the agent in South Africa and the Aftermarket contract/invoices were South African. The South African their court system is the British system, so there is sufficient protection in that law. We are hoping that it does not get to that. In fact, we have done everything to avoid the legal route. Thanks for your support
Leopard is going to have difficulty in the coming years , their criminal behavior is all over youtube and I really don't understand why anyone would buy one , they need to be sued by a collection of owners they lack accountability
I feel your pain. I don’t know that semantics are going to help you with this mob. However, for what it’s worth (and should it end up legal) I would be referring to your engine room issues not as a “clean” which to my mind down plays the damage, but as a “restoration”. Yes as a part of that restoration you will also require a deep clean, but the engine and hull will also require “reparations” to remove rust and replace damaged paint and repair damaged gel coat and IMHO that is not “cleaning”. All the best, I hope you can finally get it resolved and leave this behind you.
Gone With The Wynns, on UA-cam, have like you, experienced many problems with their new HH44. Seems these foreign made vessels are just not built and designed to expected marine standards.
Thank you for your comment and support. You are not alone ! Because of their poor service, many people have crossed them off their buy lists. My hope is that they are clever enough to realise that they and not their customers, are the problem. If they are, then the folk calling them out would have helped future buyers to buy Leopards without having to endure what we, Travel Sketch and a bunch of non-UA-cam Leopard owners have had to endure
@@sailing_utopia And you and others like the Leopard 46 in Trinidad are doing everyone a service by exposing this company and it very poor support to vessels costing nearly a Millon dollars! And sometimes more.
For the people up in the peanut gallery, "DON'T BUY LEOPARDS"! Actually, don't buy any South African boat in South Africa. They have no lemon/consumer protection laws there, apparently. These vessels are just overpriced R/Vs for the charter market. Their quality control is non existent.
Thanks for your reply. You are very right. It is sad. Their overall design is good. Management is the issue. Legally we'd be skating on thin ice if we told people on UA-cam not to buy Leopards. However we can say whether we would again or not. So one of our forth coming episodes will be about just that: "Would we buy a Leopard again" It happens to be scheduled around the time of the Annapolis Boat Show 😞
@@sailing_utopia At the very least, yours and Travel Sketches' dealings with Leopard/R&C should deter people from buying new. If people are still willing to roll the dice, then buy a second hand boat at a huge discount and have all(hopefully) of the bugs sorted out.
I’m a second owner of a 98 norseman 430 well built/thought out design. Wouldn’t mind more bridge deck clearance but build quality and most original wiring still works.
Thanks for your comment. We have been doing EVERYTHING to try avoid a long drawn-out legal process. We have been hoping that all will come right from our meeting with the Vice President of Leopard at Annapolis in October AND their management of Utopia when she is with them to fix, in Ft Lauderdale in November. Unfortunately, we think that their management of the warranty repairs will be a nightmare because we don't confidence in Leopards being a competent company. We really hope to be proven wrong. Also, word has it that the VP is arrogant. On the other hand, word has it that the VP is a person of integrity. We'll just have to wait and see how they perform but if we end up going legal, it will not be for lack of trying to resolve the warranty directly. Stay tuned for the verdict 🙂
@@sailing_utopia seriously do yourself the favour and get a toothy shark with the law degree and save yourself the emotional shit show from disingenuous showroom floor staff that have no genuine interest in getting a full resolution for you for the issues their parent company created. I have followed along listening with disbelief of the abhorrent treatment your family has received and quite honestly the brand company shows full well their disdain for the customer and the urgency of the safety issues put to the provider for their utmost urgent response.You have been well patient,personally I’d ask for a full refund and compensation for pain and suffering,they put your family lives at risk with an inferior product and service. Do what you feel is necessary but don’t take less than what you guys deserve,they fucked up your dream start,I apologise for language but am very disappointed from what I’ve heard from you and other owners so it’s not isolated issue with poor quality and service.Be safe and safe sailing ⛵️,Dirk.
@@sailing_utopia sounds like running out the warranty period,honestly,I apologise if I cause upset with my thought process,in todays age one can’t help but be suspicious when all we encounter is obstacles,walk backs on promises and outright denials of ownership of the issues.Sorry bro,chin up old chap,lol,Newcastle here.
@@svthorasailing4868 Hey Dirk, I love your passion. You are correct, they fucked up big time. They have and still are fucking up the dreams of a lot of owners. I gave them a commitment that if they PROPERLY fix all the warranty issues in November, 100% at their cost, I would not go legal. They have not disputed that any of the listed warranty issues are valid, so they know full well what they are. However, they don't seem to recognise my commitment because they are still nit-picking. If it went legal, I might just go for a full refund plus interest but I certainly would be going for a heck of a lot of indirect losses that Leopard have caused us. If you are in the area, look us up.
Seems like the entire Yacht building industry has some serious problems. The worst thing they can do is do what they are doing, dragging feet and denying issues says they care more about keeping profits than honoring warranties.
The Problems with those windows is not only on Leopard 50's but on 45's as well look at Sailing Sisu's problems with those windows coming loose and leaking and Travel Sketch as well it is due to Leopard and Robertson and Caine not doing their homework as to compatibility between the windows and the Adhesive being used and the environment they are using it in. So If you do not take these matters up with the Standards organizations that Robertson and Caine and Leopard and their equipment suppliers claim to adhere to nothing will be done. Why do you think in the Motor Industry you have Factory recalls because of the pressure applied by the standards organizations on the Industry Certifications being withdrawn or put on hold stopping all Trading ect. As I have said previously the standards both Leopard and Robertson and Caine are claiming is USA standards and under USA Law that makes them Liable.
Thanks for your reply. I think I was stupidly vague and not specific. I kept referring to 'windows' instead of 'portlights'. Wrt 'windows', there is no question that Leopard 45's have HUGE issues. However, it seems that Leopard 50's are, in the most part, immune from those same issues. ALL Leopards however, have the junk Lewmar portlights that just oxidise away, into dust, literally. What is unfathomable, is the fact that Leopard know about the issue and keep fitting the Lewmar portlights to their boats. The next video, in about 3 weeks time, will be about the Leopard portlights
@@sailing_utopia Aluminium Oxidizes when a catalyst is present in environment where dissimilar metals are present one to act as anode and one as cathode the metal could in a form of a compound for example something like copper anti seizing compound and aluminium frames with stainless steel hinge pins is a recipe for disaster. ad to that the ocean environment and the erosion will occur. so something as simple as looking at the anti seize or at the sealing compound could be the culprit for the corrosion occurring.
You are correct Dave, I've had far better treatment buying a fridge, TV or small car. Back in the day, I was a young sales person selling $3,000 personal computers. We were taught always to thank a customer for his order ! I can promise you that if you saw the lack of any reaction from Leopard to me placing the order with them - Total value about USD1.2m - you'd be shocked. In the period after signed the order, I had the sense from them, that they were doing me a favour. I could take over that company and turn it 360 around, in under 24 months or as long as it took to restructure the warranty part of the contract with the factory
@@travelsketch Hey Trent, what about anodising? I thought to send them to a professional company that do anodising. None of my anodised aluminium on the boat has oxidised. The mast, the boom and a lot of aftermarket items that I have put on the boat are anodised aluminium and I have not had any issue with them.
This puts a bloody ugly taste in my mouth for Leopard. And given Lagoon has a poor reputation given the bulkhead issues. Why would anyone waste the money on a cat. The unfortunate part of all this and it extends to ground-development as well (brick and mortar houses). The builders build it to minimum standards/building codes, which in my mind are NOT strong enough. Same thing in boats... Minimum standards are NOT enough.
Hey guys, actually we were texted, to ask why I expressed my unhappiness in my comment on your channel. Hope all is looking good for you for the start of the season
Looks like the unscrupulous catamaran manufacturers fro South Africa continues, who remembers the first one? Eric Schuman and his huge plywood catastrophies. That was decades ago and Leopard looks like they have taken up the batton. How manny dreams destroyed, actually endangering lives, you should sue them for attempted murder!
Thanks for your comment George. We met many owners in the Caribbean that have resigned to being scammed by Leopard. Some had 50% offers on the repair costs, some had no replies to their communications. Some had their warranty claims outright declined, as did I in the beginning . . . . I received one email from the 'bad' guy in Cape Town saying that all warranty items on Utopia had been declined by the factory. When I asked for an explanation on a per item basis, he refused to reply. Soon after that I called the VP who told me that he had looked into the 'bad' guys communications and found no fault and that UA-cam is not the correct forum to handle warranty claims. I wish he was correct. We are South Africans that emigrated to Australia years ago and I have to agree, in the 13 MONTHS it took Leopard to complete the aftermarket work on Utopia, we came across many scam artists in South Africa. It could be just the marine industry or perhaps it is what South Africa has become since I left: Nigeria mark II
😂😂😂😂 Show me an engine in a yacht engine bay that had rust and was removed permanently after a good "cleaning". Can you indicate which parts of a marine engine are OK to be made of rustable materials ??
Hey Joe, thanks for your comment. Another comment above seemed more accurate than my using 'clean' or 'repair'. He said the following : "I would be referring to your engine room issues not as a “clean” which to my mind down plays the damage, but as a “restoration”. Yes as a part of that restoration you will also require a deep clean, but the engine and hull will also require “reparations” to remove rust and replace damaged paint and repair damaged gel coat and IMHO that is not “cleaning” " Thanks for your support Joe
@sailing_utopia I can get with restoration. That sounds better. Why you even have to play a game of linguistics is ridiculous. They need to stand on their work.
We were supposed to come spend time with Trent in November but he said he'd be leaving by December, so we passed on by. We don't have any plan to come that far south because in the coming season, we plan to spend time in the Bahamas. Why do you ask? Will you come to the Bahamas?
Would Leapord go broke if they fixed all their problems world wide? This is becoming the Norm...... I wouldn't buy A Leapord, however, this seems to be the norm with every new vessel sail or motor. Like the movie Nemo..... just keep swimming.....
Hey Brent, I could fix it for them. I could do it in my sleep. They are losing so much business that the cost to fix their broken business would be way way less than the profit value of the lost sales. Thanks for your support
lewmar and raymarine are crap equipment, I had failiures on my boat with those brands, and leopard is a horrible builder amazing they are still sellling boats, I am going to be in the market for a cat next year, even for free I won t have a leopard
Raymarine have made seriously regressive designs with the new Axiom/ i70 systems that try to intergrate NEMA 0183 and 2000 , the ITC-5 converter is not fit for purpose, we have massive wind speed and direction outages during any weather with electrical activity, I know two other boats with identical issues and I know that Raymarine is looking to upgrade its masthead transducer to cope with this issue, our whole system is brand new. The ST60 systems worked the auto pilot was far superior. I wish I had spent the extra on B&G.
@@ssmith4045 I suspect the ITC-5 as being a possibility for our wind and current issues. Regardless, the Axiom is totally unstable. I have g=heard that B&G is far superior. I would happily pay twice the difference for no issues with the nav equipment
What you are referring to when you compare it to a car it's called here in the United States a "lemon law" Lemon laws only apply to cars. And it was a law that was enacted back in the '70s. It would never be allowed to become law today. Simply because manufacturers corporations run the United States now. Anyway the point I'm trying to make is it only applies to cars not boats and by law they don't have to make you whole in other words get you back to where you were when you paid for it. And because of that they're not going to. It would be the right thing to do companies and corporations don't do the right thing anymore so you're not going to get your money back
Your 'Lemon Law' is interesting. But in South Africa they do have laws which require the consumer be made 'whole'. We are hoping and indeed have tried and are still trying everything to avoid the long legal ball and chain. In October and November we will find out where this whole thing goes. It is 100% up to Leopard
Leopard had (past tense) an excellent reputation for boat build and support. Then they took on investors/venture capital, pursued growth and things seem to have gone downhill since then. They seem (and this is conjecture) to have expanded beyond their ability to maintain build quality, quality control and after sales support. They're building and selling lots of boats and that appears to be all that matters. The website of the yard repeatedly boasts they are now the 3rd largest cat builders in the world. Volume and not quality appears to be their goal now. Perhaps to drive up the perceived value of the business so the investors see their planned ROI. I'm not sure who'd want to buy one, given that so many owners are going through this warranty nightmare. They've certainly been taken off my list of buying options.
Thanks for commenting. Yes, we have also heard that back-in-the-day Leopards were about quality, before the private equity firms, when the original owners, John Robertson and the late Jerry Caine ran the business. Having been stuck on Utopia at their dock for 13 months while they did the aftermarket and warranty work, I don't think it is ability thing that limits them from maintaining build quality, quality control and after sales support. I think it is an attitude thing. To be frank and specific Management arrogance which has also lead to gross incompetence in the ranks.
Didn’t leopards get bought out or something?? Seems like there’s a weird loophole of yacht companies getting bought. Only looking out for their investors I probably don’t know what I’m talking about but I seen some other videos of not particularly leopard but just shady practices with yatch companies. Ultimately it just ends up being a court process drawn out for years to come. It’s pretty sad
Thanks for your comment. The factory, Roberson and Caine was bought by a Czech company 18 months ago. They were sold by the the original owners, John Robertson and the late Jerry Caine, a long time back. Apparently it was after John and Jerry sold it, it slowly started going downhill. While it was good, the warranty structure between R&C and Leaopard/Travelopia worked. But only while R&C was good. We really have done everything to avoid that long drawn out court process and until the very end, November in Ft Lauderdale, will continue. We have hope that the VP who we will meet in October does the right thing. It is all up to him. Thanks for your support
Thanks for your comment. The chiller is an option that I never took. Instead, thinking that they would be low-draw, I went to a third-party supplier for 4 x 48v aircons but unfortunately the same brand as the chiller - Frigomar. They are definitely not low-draw . . . together, the four units (total 58k BTU) can draw of 5kw ! Also, the 3rd party dealer/installer was another South African industry scam artist. Crap install job
Thanks for your comment. Yes, we have heard that. The issue though is that the person with whom you deal, in the European Union, is a broker. You are actually transacting in Dollars, with the USA company "Mariner Yachts International" aka Leopard
ANYONE that knows anything about boats knows that things like the Lewmar port holes are a warranty issue with Lewmar and NOT Leopard. Stop throwing stones and laying blame where it doesn't belong.
The "Leopard" brand is owned by Robertson and Caine and used by the broker. Robertson and Caine continue to use these Lewmar portlights with a record of them prematurely failing and no guarantee of a change in production process. Imagine customers realising this and being disgruntled for having their time wasted.
Yea if you bash the company before you get there and see what they fix you won’t be well received. If everyone knows these are exactly like you say they are then you bought exactly what you knew you are getting. Did you pick out the flir camera? There ending then there won’t have to be a fight. There isn’t a fight your convincing people not to buy them and everyone is aware they have issues. I am going to go ahead and say you could have cleaned that engine room and most the other issues in the time it took you to make that video. My gosh UA-cam comments make you hateful sorry I haven’t even been on a sail boat just something about that complaining was hard to get away from
And I thought I wanted a Leopard………. Thank you for these concise explanations on all front!
Hey Captain. I will be doing a video on whether or not I would buy a Leopard again. There might be a way to avoid what Travel Sketch, myself and many non-youtube owners have experienced. Thanks for your support
I don’t buy a boat brand- I buy a boat that is supported by its manufacturer. Leopard is clearly not one of those.
I don't understand why Leopard would trash their brand by not resolving these warranty problems without causing antagonism.
You and me both ! 🙂
1000% thats what I am saying and its not just them other Cat builders are having issues like this!!!
Thank you for having the courage to do these videos. The truth about big boat building companies needs to be told so that others don't have to go through what you and other owners have gone through.
Thanks for the heads-up. We sincerely do it for other boaties and potential boaties, as well as in the hope that we can avoid long drawn out legal action
Run, i captained a 58 for 5000 nm, windows fell out, roof filled with water. 3rd word wiring, crazy stuff. How they are still in business insane.
Hey Jeremy. That sound about right, unfortunately. Take care Mate
There is a Australian couple who bought a leopard catamaran and it has been a nightmare for them .They have a UA-cam channel and leopard to me are no more than criminals .
Yes, we know them . . . . Travel Sketch. We chat from time to time. They are lovely people who have had a far more rotten deal than we have. Trent is big on ensuring that their experiences can help other owners. Thanks for your comment
@@sailing_utopia ☺
t is my opinion that you are 110% correct about the rust. Its not fixing or repairing anything. Its cleaning and/or replacing/rectifying the damage caused by a failure of the boat sealing - its entire purpose is - ( water outside, air inside ). If my new house roof leaks, and causes damage to the house interior, the business that incorrectly installed the roof must provide full compensation, rectification , repair or replacement of the damage to the standard that was in situ prior to the roof failure.
We hadn't thought of the hull in terms of the roof of a house but you are totally correct that both are there to keep water out. Thanks for your logical comment and support
This entire series is completely unfathomable that Leopard treats you like this! Travel Sketch UA-cam seemed like a warning, but the more I dig, the more it seems that the Leopard warranty is designed to deter claims and frustrate owners into covering faulty installations and designs so that they pay out of pocket. It's funny that I just received an email from leopard for a 2024 launch leopard 50 at discount - hard to believe they think someone spending over a million won't find stories like this. How can they defend themselves honestly in light of the evidence!? Good luck to you!
Thanks for your support Ryan. You are correct about Leopard warranty being designed to deter claims. We have met many new owners that simply gave up and took the burn themselves. There sales are way down at the moment and they are offering huge discounts to try move boats. On a Leopard 50. I expect one could do the deal with close to a $250k discount off of $999k price tag. Kevin
It's the same problems that Diesel Pusher motorhomes have. No help from the factories
This is bad, but have you watched the structural damage and back and forth with Lagoon owners and Lagoon? Still a problem.
@@sailing_utopia From the sound of the poor construction quality and design even that might not make it an attractive price.
Cross Leopard of my list of cruising boats. Also, you are absolutely right, if they can’t get it to work correctly, he absolutely needs to make you whole.
Thank you for shining a light on the Leopard warranty process. Lots of things we like about Leopards, but we would have a hard time purchasing one given the number of issues you and others have experienced and the lack of warranty follow up by the company.
Social media has been a blessing, of sorts, for owners and a bane for manufacturers. IMO, if it were not for the prevalence of NDA’s that owners are coerced to sign in return for repairs, social media would be replete with more of these cases and would likely include nearly all builders.
Thanks for your reply. You are correct. Without social media we would currently be in a far longer drawn out legal process. We might end up that way anyway, depending on our meeting the Vice President of Leopard at Annapolis in October AND their management of Utopia when she is with them to fix, in Ft Lauderdale in November. There are many owners that we met in the Caribbean that simply gave up trying to get their warranty honoured. They were not on UA-cam. Really lousy to see. We hope that as well as getting Utopia sorted, we can help some owners along the way, Stay tuned 🙂
Wish I could afford to send you and travel sketch to Annapolis to run a 'Marine consumer protection' booth... right next to Leopard!! :)
I feel your pain. Ever since I started following your FB page and Travel Sketch, I have written off Leopard catamaran. I can no longer recommend them to my clients.
Hey John, thanks for your reply. We will be doing exactly that episode. Legally we'd be skating on thin ice if we told people on UA-cam not to buy Leopards buy. However we can say whether we would again or not. So one of our forth coming episodes will be about just that: "Would we buy a Leopard again" It happens to be scheduled around the time of the Annapolis Boat Show. What business are you in?
Your doing the right thing. You are affecting new buyers that will protect themselves from builder's
Hi Matthew, protecting and informing existing owners and prospective owners is a primary part of our goal. We wish we had had this info before choosing a Leopard. Can you believe that we have actually had a handful of owners complain to say that we are devaluing their Leopards. They seem unable to understand that Leopard have devalued their boats and that if Leopard began to do the right thing, their boats would re-value. Thanks for your support. Kevin & Melinda
I don't have a catamaran, but I've researched the builders. There is a collection of facts on the internet that tells the true about Leopard. The truth is....never buy a Leopard. New or used.
How do people keep buying these vessels is beyond me. The infor is easy to see.
Thanks for your reply. You are correct. I made the decision and signed the contract in mid 2021. If I knew then what I know now . . . . .
I am so disappointed and frankly angry about this Leopard disaster. As an South African expat living in North America, I’ve always felt proud of one more supposed worldclass ‘success’ story out of my motherland. It now seems it was all a chimera. I am in fact looking to buy my third sailboat in the next few years and a cat was on the list. We also have thought the new Leopard designs ‘appears’ very attractive. Needless to say, I have completely given up on Leopard as even a consideration. Just like certain European boats with a reputation for keels falling off, WHY would one ever take the risk of purchasing from a company with apparent poor quality control. Something very very bad happened with the QC at this company. I hope they will be able to recover from these recent incredibly bad publicity. That will take years however. A reputation destroyed does NOT get fixed overnight.
in Australia, consumer law protects the user by a warranty that regardless of manufactures warranty a product MUST BE FIT FOR SERVICE .a period that is reasonable expectation.
Gday Mate, so Glad to see your back I thought you may have taken a cheque 💵 💵 from 🐆 for NDS!!! Please don't stop the videos you are helping so many people including us (as crazy as it seems we Love the 🐆 design). We hope you get some/all of your issues sorted at JustCats 🤞 it's such a shame that leopard 🐆 workmanship and quality is so poor and bad for the exorbitant price they charge for these vessels they should be the best of the best and you guys should be enjoying your Beautiful investment not Fighting with a joke of a coperate company that refuses look after its customers, put more focus on Quality Control and Own the facts that there products are not up to standard.
Keep up the good work on the videos mate and we look fwd to your up and coming videos.
Cheers Mick & Nikki 🇦🇺
Hey Mick and Nikki, thanks for your kind support. Actually, Leopard have now refunded our costs for the work that we did in the Caribbean. I would say that the VP is the person responsible for that decision. We have heard less than ideal things about his attitude but good things about his ethics. So hopefully when we meet him in October in Annapolis, he will agree to attend to all the warranty issues in Ft Lauderdale in November. Hopefully they are professional with the work but I think that might be too much hope to hold on to. Of course, that payment doesn't cover the lost season and all the costs associated with chasing around the Caribbean, after tradies. Our issue with Leopard now is the remaining warranty work. We want them to attend to all of at the one stop at their Ft Lauderdale facility in November but they are holding back and pulling back on some of it, even though we have had to sail and motor so far for it. Leopard agreed to handle the alternators through Just Cats, which is a biggie. And don't worry, I would never sign an NDA. Once Leopard does the job properly, there will eventually be no longer need to focus on warranty. In fact, if they handle it well, that's what will be reported on UA-cam. We simply convey what happens but they don't seem to realise that. In fact, we tend to tone it down a bit, so that we can't be accused of exaggerating, or the like.
We absolutely will keep on with videos, regardless of Leopards warranty. Check out the schedule near the end of the video that Melinda talks about. Take care, Kevin & Melinda
This is egregious treatment, yet again. Look at how Seawind takes care of issues for owners vs Leopard. No comparison. I am in the market for purchase with a 3yr timeline and I can guarantee my dollars are not going to a Leopard
I've run my own business for a total of nearly 30 years. In fact my business model is very very similar to the one that Leopard and Seawind use i.e. my design and had 3rd party factories make the product. So, I know that you are correct about the difference between the way Seawind and Leopard run their warranty. I can bet Seawinds business is not down to the extent that Leopards is. It is to do with two things 1. The way that warranty is managed (structure & processes) 2. Managements attitude. in this case arrogance.
Both points derive from the company’s upper management. Clearly, they, unlike Seawind have issue with mid and upper management. Somebody needs a firing. Thanks for your comment
Leopard really are a risible entity and Robertson and Kane are out and out mavericks. They should be reported to the classification organisation and the insurance companies. Hope you get all your stuff sorted and all your expenses and refunds honoured.👍
Thanks for your reply Norman. I have wondered if there is some sort of ombudsman for the leisure marine industry. I’ll be sure to cover that if we find one that we can approach
Appalling response from Leopard especially for the Fleur .
If you buy something that isn't delivered, it's called scam!
Hey Lars, you are 100% correct ! That is a very fair definition of a scam. This is why we won't take it lying down. It feels awful to know that you are on the receiving end of a scam. Even though we have gone through what we have gone through . . . . . the pain, the agony and more than one season lost already, our goal is to get rid of that awful feeling. One way, or the other, we will. So stay tuned-in to either a proper fix in Ft Lauderdale in November 🙂 . . . . or a different much longer process which we would have tried our best to avoid 😞
The problem is there are Utube channels like BareFoot Doctors that simply deny these problems and sing leopard praises.
Didn't their Leopard go up in flames? (not apportioning blame) Apologies if I have the wrong boat but I think these guys went on to by a different design.
@@ssmith4045 Leopard helped them out with a second leopard(show boat) while they are building their new cat. Which is why they don't want to burn any bridges.
A disingenuous couple for sure.
Not everyone has problems.
@@laurapitre5797 Well some people never leave the marina.
O my! Definitely Leopard catamaran will be out of my list of possible catamarans. Is a nightmare spending millions in a boat with so many issues and bad responses from the manufacturer and their dealers. No,no.
Hey Abraham, thanks for our comment which is exactly right ! Spend such big money should not amount to such bad treatment. Obviously it should be the opposite. Shortly we will be doing a video about whether we would buy a Leopard again. Watch that first before making a decision 🙂
Mate, what a horror story . . . to answer your question: If they can't provide a perfectly working FLIR camera on the THIRD occasion, you are absolutely entitled to a refund. You are also entitled to working alternators too!
How are Leopard still selling boats? Clearly based on all the owners with ongoing issues it will effect confidence in their product and market appeal. 😮
Word is they are only suppling charter companies now, confirmation anyone?
Thanks for your reply. You are correct. I made the decision and signed the contract in mid 2021. If I knew then what I know now . . . . .
@@ssmith4045 No, they are still selling some boats to private owners but I have had inside word that their sales are down badly due to the negative market feedback. This is backed up by the fact that they are throwing huge discounts at people to entice them to buy boats. In Road Town in the BVI, we recently saw first-hand, exactly how badly they treat their charter boats that they then sell on. We have shocking video footage which morally we should publish. But it is so bad that I am not sure that I could bring myself to do it. Thanks for your support
Leopard was always on my list of possible Catamarans…in the future? I thought it was Lagoon that has had structural problems and possibly to be avoided? This is pretty significant given the reach utubers have!
Hey Dave, yo be honest, I would rather the huge issues we have had than structural issues. Thanks for your support
If it is the case that you need to have more frequent videos, then I recommend you consider posting shorter videos (even just 5 ~ 12 minutes) weekly so that you keep up the social media pressure. Maybe consider also posting some 30 second shorts that highlight each of the repair issues. All the best for you and all other Leopard owners!
Actually, I have had the same thought recently. Thanks for your comment and well wishes
The RV industry suffers these same issues from manufacturing defects and poor engineering designs. On the water you cannot pull over and call for a repairman.
Hey Cecil, you got me laughing about RV-ers being able to pull over . . . . so yes, it seems that they have a big advantage over us cruisers but I can't imagine that the warranty issues in that industry are as bad as Leopards. The reason I say this is the structure and processes at Leopard are totally whacked. Before Christmas, one of the episodes that we will put up is "Why Leopards warranty is an owner’s nightmare". I ran my own businesses for a total of nearly 30 years and sold them for good money. In fact my business model is very very similar to the one that Leopard use i.e. my design and had 3rd party factories make the product. Their warranty issues are is to do with two things (assuming integrity is not one of them) 1. The way that warranty is managed (structure & processes) 2. Managements attitude. in this case arrogance.
Both points derive from the company’s upper management. Clearly, they have issue with upper management. Somebody needs a firing. Take care Mate. Kevin
Gotta wonder why anyone would buy these brand of Cats these days after all the horror stories on UA-cam. Actually I can't understand how the company is still afloat (excuse the pun 🙂) with all the claims. Best wishes that it all get resolved.
I watch a lot of cruising channels and all who have purchased a boat from a factory brand have stacks of issues out of the factory. I’m convinced a custom built alloy cat is better and when the only person one can blame for anything crap going on is thyself.
Thanks for your reply Brady. I have always wanted to design my own aluminum Cat. Do you know of a good builder? My email is kevindeanferreira@outlook.com
@@sailing_utopia Stradbroke in Ausy who are building Delis 2.0. (They have a custom De Villiers). Couple of places in NZ, there is a stack in Vietnam and Cambodia too
as an engineer retired,t he problem is design NOW is to be pretty rather than solid rock strong for life, so shit keeps happening.
Very ironic name for your boat, I have owned a couple of top brand power boats and cannot believe the lack of proper smart design and shoddy workmanship. I’ll soon be out of the boat ownership life due to age and kinda look forward to this change because of the headaches.
Hopefully your videos will loose them way more chash in lost sales than refunding you. Well done so happy when the small guy wins against the big nasty bully, make them pay big! We are all on your side go for it bro really make them cough.
Thanks George. I only want them to do what they should do i.e. the warranty work that they are directly responsible for. However, if they refuse some of it, they will pay for all the costs they have caused us to incur. We don't want that because it implies lengthy legal processes and frankly speaking, we'd much rather live our lives at see, enjoying the ocean
Ive commented the exact same thing to Travel Sketch and I will now post it to you. What will you when your warranty runs out nd all the fixes they did fail and you know there will ba many other problems found which you will then have to pay for. How are you still dealing with this after 1.5 years. I would not stand for this. They must have dozens if not hundreds of lawsuits against them.
From yours and travel sketch experienced, all Cape Town made boat is eliminated from my list.
Leopard is destroying their business, while I like the boat a lot, for me....no good service --- no sale
I feel so bad for you guys. Paying for a brand new boat and then have so much of it damaged from the start. Just terrible. Stay sane.
Thanks for your comment. It is horrible. It was our dream but it's been our nightmare ! We are hoping that all will come right from our meeting with the Vice President of Leopard at Annapolis in October AND their management of Utopia when she is with them to fix, in Ft Lauderdale in November. We think that their management of the warranty repairs will be a nightmare because we don't think they are a professional company. We really hope to be proven wrong. Also, word has it that the VP is arrogant. On the other hand, word has it that the VP is a person of integrity. We'll just have to wait and see.
Been seeing a lot of issues with many of these manufacturers of new boats . Coming out of factories with issues
Thanks for your comment Frank. There are good manufacturers as well as these bad ones. I hear that Seawind are a good one. Sometimes it is not just the warranty problems with the boat but instead the issue is the people that should be attending to the warranty problems
Sue!!! Sue!!! These Cat builders need to get their stuff togeather!! They are hurting their businesses when all theses UA-camrs are sharing their problems.. Cat builders better take care of their customers!!!
I had a 76 ft cat, sold it and looking for a new one now. Leopard is definitly not on my list, even if i get it for free.
The stress this would be putting on couples / owners is mind blowing. 😢
How often do we see and hear of major issues with Leopard yachts?
Way too often.
Always DUCK AND DODGE….poor behaviour from a company that provides a product for people to fulfil dreams, not nightmares!
Personally wouldn’t be looking at giving them my hard earned cash if I was in the market.
Thanks for your support. You are totally correct. Our first season in the Caribbean was a nightmare, not a pleasure ! You are also correct about Leopard ducking and dodging. In fact I can honestly say that the issues might have even been borderline acceptable if Leopard had handled them properly with integrity and efficiency and genuine customer concern. Instead they have really tried to dodge the issues.
Not a yachtie nor do I own a leopard, don't think I'd want to after watching some of these, love your frank language😆, sounds like a complete run-around involving duck-shoving a problem elsewhere and no one having the stones to just say it up front
Thanks for your comment ! You hit the old proverbial nail right on the head
What is the brokers authority in I assume representing the manufacrurer of your boat? IS he an idependent contractor or an employee of the manufacturer?
It's heartbreaking to see the things which new boat owners are having to put up with. I have a random question, i will be sailing from Cape Town to Grenada early next year i was wondering if you had any suggestions on how easy it is to get crew in Cape Town ?
Just dropped in , Leopard are getting a Negative Name globally. Soo....... many ppl with issues
👍🇭🇲🦘
Thanks for your reply. You are very right. It is sad. Their overall design is good. Management is the issue ! Sad
I did not see if you had prior experience with ocean crossing yachts, so my following comments might be a bit sharp but if they help others who are contemplating buying a yacht to retire on and sail the world, then we will both have done our bit to guide them.
I note Leopard was sold last year to a Czech Investment fund, so perhaps that is part of the reason for your current difficulties.
Having looked over a couple of Leopards in recent years my opinion is that they are like a caravan; suitable for smooth water sailing but totally unsuitable for ocean crossings.
Having just looked at some of your earlier videos I see there is a theme of issues with the boat and issues with the warranty offered from the company.
From personal experience South Africa has never been considered a centre of industrial leisure boat excellence, so in my own opinion the only people that would consider buying one of their boats are the naive wantabes who have no experience or knowledge in understanding the important items to look for in an ocean crossing vessel, and fall for the caravan full of gadgets that you would find in most caravan parks around the western world.
I wish you the best of luck with finally getting the quality issues resolved satisfactorily.
Thanks for your reply. Actually, the issues have existed before they sold to the Czech company about 18 months ago but since the two original owners stepped out of the company. We knew that we were buying a caravan. It was want we wanted because we would be at anchor for upward of 95% of the time. They are very heavy boats, so definitely not performance oriented. Even though we knew it when we bought it, while sailing, I find myself yearning for a proper performance boat. Thank you for your well wishes
mmmm...you might be wrong in saying, "South Africa has never been considered a centre of industrial leisure boat excellence"...They have Xquisite(Tamas the owner has pride in his company and after service) Kinetic, Knysna, St Francis to mention a few...but that is high end yachts so you need the money. I think Leopard is in the same class as Lagoon, with their own issues.
Oh my god I was just about to push the button to buy a leopard after I decided not to go with Fontaine Peugeot for similar reasons who puts plastic hinges on new cats it’s like they’ve been designed by the Accountant not by someone who sails on an ocean. I’m so glad I’ve just seen this video. This is the last straw from hearing these production boats not building to quality for liver boards. I will leave it now as a toss up between HH 44 and, sea wind. I think following manufacturers that watch and work with UA-camrs to continually improve their boats are gonna be the winners in these coming years for boards like myself. Good luck guys sorry to hear you’ve had so much problems on utopia kind of ironic. Maybe things would improve if you renamed it dystopia.
If the accountants were designing them they would be built properly as long term that is a lot cheaper than endless repairs and destruction of your brand value. The decision to behave like this comes right from the top. Who are the ultimate owners of Leopard? It sounds like they are just asset stripping cash out of the brand. something that you expect from venture capital but the boat industry is funny. A lot of very arrogant and ignorant boat building companies out their. Finding a brand that can be trusted that can be afforded by those who are not extremely well off is getting harder and harder.
@@peteroleary162 well said I apologise to all those accountants out there that work in the voting industry on the plus side I think this is the great influence from UA-cam is that is exposes or brings to light cow and where these Industries need to improve to win us over and compete
@@ciaran8025 Thanks. To be honest there are good accountants and bad accountants just like any other profession. The reality is that businesses that want to succeed and be profitable long term focus on things like build quality and customer service because those are the things that drive repeated sales. There is obviously something going on with with Leopard, the outsourced builder or both and whatever it is is being driven from the highest levels of the business. As the old saying goes, the fish rots from the top.
Leopards reputation is in the toilet. Pity as I have been on a few Leopard charters and always liked the boats. For the money they charge there are far better options available. Also one should purchase in a country with serious consumer laws like Australia, that wouldn't fly here. The brokering business would have to cover I would hope. Not sure if you bought in SA direct? Anyway I'm so sorry for your experience turning a dream into a nightmare and at great financial and emotional cost not to mention the time wasted. When you spend that sort of money you deserve some old fashioned service but nowadays it's profit before pride. Fair Winds.
Thanks for your comment. You are correct: to go on a charter on a Leopard is fine. Beyond that, maybe not so much. The boat contract was with the USA. The boat was sold by the agent in South Africa and the Aftermarket contract/invoices were South African. The South African their court system is the British system, so there is sufficient protection in that law. We are hoping that it does not get to that. In fact, we have done everything to avoid the legal route. Thanks for your support
Leopard is going to have difficulty in the coming years , their criminal behavior is all over youtube and I really don't understand why anyone would buy one , they need to be sued by a collection of owners they lack accountability
Funny how a boat builder sells boats that are so poorly built. Will never buy one of those boats…..shame on leopard.
Are there no applicable lemon laws?
I feel your pain. I don’t know that semantics are going to help you with this mob. However, for what it’s worth (and should it end up legal) I would be referring to your engine room issues not as a “clean” which to my mind down plays the damage, but as a “restoration”. Yes as a part of that restoration you will also require a deep clean, but the engine and hull will also require “reparations” to remove rust and replace damaged paint and repair damaged gel coat and IMHO that is not “cleaning”. All the best, I hope you can finally get it resolved and leave this behind you.
Thanks for your advice. You are correct, 'Restoration' is far better than 'clean' or 'repair'. I will definitely use that now on.
Gone With The Wynns, on UA-cam, have like you, experienced many problems with their new HH44. Seems these foreign made vessels are just not built and designed to expected marine standards.
It seems like the people designing and building them have no basic competence or capability in either boat design or construction these days.
Well. That does it. Ive now crossed them off the purchase list.
Thank you for your comment and support. You are not alone ! Because of their poor service, many people have crossed them off their buy lists. My hope is that they are clever enough to realise that they and not their customers, are the problem. If they are, then the folk calling them out would have helped future buyers to buy Leopards without having to endure what we, Travel Sketch and a bunch of non-UA-cam Leopard owners have had to endure
Why anyone would buy a new leopard now is beyond me.
Thanks for your reply. You are correct. I made the decision and signed the contract in mid 2021. If I knew then what I know now . . . . .
@@sailing_utopia And you and others like the Leopard 46 in Trinidad are doing everyone a service by exposing this company and it very poor support to vessels costing nearly a Millon dollars! And sometimes more.
For the people up in the peanut gallery, "DON'T BUY LEOPARDS"! Actually, don't buy any South African boat in South Africa. They have no lemon/consumer protection laws there, apparently. These vessels are just overpriced R/Vs for the charter market. Their quality control is non existent.
Thanks for your reply. You are very right. It is sad. Their overall design is good. Management is the issue. Legally we'd be skating on thin ice if we told people on UA-cam not to buy Leopards. However we can say whether we would again or not. So one of our forth coming episodes will be about just that: "Would we buy a Leopard again" It happens to be scheduled around the time of the Annapolis Boat Show 😞
@@sailing_utopia At the very least, yours and Travel Sketches' dealings with Leopard/R&C should deter people from buying new. If people are still willing to roll the dice, then buy a second hand boat at a huge discount and have all(hopefully) of the bugs sorted out.
@@jnwood8611 Hopefully Trents team and Melinda and I help other owners and save some from the heartache
I’m a second owner of a 98 norseman 430 well built/thought out design. Wouldn’t mind more bridge deck clearance but build quality and most original wiring still works.
@@captdrewcafe Simpler design and better QC, maybe?
All charter cat builders don’t care about private clients!!
Better pay more for a outremer, Garcia etc
Why isn’t a solicitor dealing with the company on your behalf.A 1.5 million dollar boat is no joke.
Thanks for your comment. We have been doing EVERYTHING to try avoid a long drawn-out legal process. We have been hoping that all will come right from our meeting with the Vice President of Leopard at Annapolis in October AND their management of Utopia when she is with them to fix, in Ft Lauderdale in November. Unfortunately, we think that their management of the warranty repairs will be a nightmare because we don't confidence in Leopards being a competent company. We really hope to be proven wrong. Also, word has it that the VP is arrogant. On the other hand, word has it that the VP is a person of integrity. We'll just have to wait and see how they perform but if we end up going legal, it will not be for lack of trying to resolve the warranty directly. Stay tuned for the verdict 🙂
@@sailing_utopia seriously do yourself the favour and get a toothy shark with the law degree and save yourself the emotional shit show from disingenuous showroom floor staff that have no genuine interest in getting a full resolution for you for the issues their parent company created.
I have followed along listening with disbelief of the abhorrent treatment your family has received and quite honestly the brand company shows full well their disdain for the customer and the urgency of the safety issues put to the provider for their utmost urgent response.You have been well patient,personally I’d ask for a full refund and compensation for pain and suffering,they put your family lives at risk with an inferior product and service.
Do what you feel is necessary but don’t take less than what you guys deserve,they fucked up your dream start,I apologise for language but am very disappointed from what I’ve heard from you and other owners so it’s not isolated issue with poor quality and service.Be safe and safe sailing ⛵️,Dirk.
@@sailing_utopia sounds like running out the warranty period,honestly,I apologise if I cause upset with my thought process,in todays age one can’t help but be suspicious when all we encounter is obstacles,walk backs on promises and outright denials of ownership of the issues.Sorry bro,chin up old chap,lol,Newcastle here.
@@svthorasailing4868 Hey Dirk, I love your passion. You are correct, they fucked up big time. They have and still are fucking up the dreams of a lot of owners. I gave them a commitment that if they PROPERLY fix all the warranty issues in November, 100% at their cost, I would not go legal. They have not disputed that any of the listed warranty issues are valid, so they know full well what they are. However, they don't seem to recognise my commitment because they are still nit-picking. If it went legal, I might just go for a full refund plus interest but I certainly would be going for a heck of a lot of indirect losses that Leopard have caused us. If you are in the area, look us up.
@@svthorasailing4868 By the way, am in Sydney now. Email is kevindeanferreira@outlook.com
Seems like the entire Yacht building industry has some serious problems. The worst thing they can do is do what they are doing, dragging feet and denying issues says they care more about keeping profits than honoring warranties.
The Problems with those windows is not only on Leopard 50's but on 45's as well look at Sailing Sisu's problems with those windows coming loose and leaking and Travel Sketch as well it is due to Leopard and Robertson and Caine not doing their homework as to compatibility between the windows and the Adhesive being used and the environment they are using it in. So If you do not take these matters up with the Standards organizations that Robertson and Caine and Leopard and their equipment suppliers claim to adhere to nothing will be done. Why do you think in the Motor Industry you have Factory recalls because of the pressure applied by the standards organizations on the Industry Certifications being withdrawn or put on hold stopping all Trading ect. As I have said previously the standards both Leopard and Robertson and Caine are claiming is USA standards and under USA Law that makes them Liable.
Thanks for your reply. I think I was stupidly vague and not specific. I kept referring to 'windows' instead of 'portlights'. Wrt 'windows', there is no question that Leopard 45's have HUGE issues. However, it seems that Leopard 50's are, in the most part, immune from those same issues. ALL Leopards however, have the junk Lewmar portlights that just oxidise away, into dust, literally. What is unfathomable, is the fact that Leopard know about the issue and keep fitting the Lewmar portlights to their boats. The next video, in about 3 weeks time, will be about the Leopard portlights
@@sailing_utopia Aluminium Oxidizes when a catalyst is present in environment where dissimilar metals are present one to act as anode and one as cathode the metal could in a form of a compound for example something like copper anti seizing compound and aluminium frames with stainless steel hinge pins is a recipe for disaster. ad to that the ocean environment and the erosion will occur. so something as simple as looking at the anti seize or at the sealing compound could be the culprit for the corrosion occurring.
who was the broker ,Abramovitz ?
Oh the pleasures of owning a leopard 50 & being treated like shit by leopard. Good luck with getting it all fixed properly.
You are correct Dave, I've had far better treatment buying a fridge, TV or small car. Back in the day, I was a young sales person selling $3,000 personal computers. We were taught always to thank a customer for his order ! I can promise you that if you saw the lack of any reaction from Leopard to me placing the order with them - Total value about USD1.2m - you'd be shocked. In the period after signed the order, I had the sense from them, that they were doing me a favour. I could take over that company and turn it 360 around, in under 24 months or as long as it took to restructure the warranty part of the contract with the factory
Can someone link a video to the proper Lewmar port light repair? Re-powder coat? Etc
Strip to bare aluminum, primer with aluminum primer, paint with product like awlgrip.
Hi, thanks for your comment. I will be uploading the video in about three weeks i.e. last week of September
@@travelsketch Hey Trent, what about anodising? I thought to send them to a professional company that do anodising. None of my anodised aluminium on the boat has oxidised. The mast, the boom and a lot of aftermarket items that I have put on the boat are anodised aluminium and I have not had any issue with them.
This puts a bloody ugly taste in my mouth for Leopard. And given Lagoon has a poor reputation given the bulkhead issues. Why would anyone waste the money on a cat. The unfortunate part of all this and it extends to ground-development as well (brick and mortar houses). The builders build it to minimum standards/building codes, which in my mind are NOT strong enough. Same thing in boats... Minimum standards are NOT enough.
The real problem is buyers are guinea pigs/test dummies. Boat builders can't afford (and have no desire) to do long term testing.
Thanks for your comment. You are totally correct. On top of it they expect owners will eventually just go away. Some do. We won't !
Its always the Janky regulator
Thanks for your comment. The Wakespeed regulator is highly complex and therein lies the problem, probably.
Travelopia called you in Cape Town and didn't want you commenting on my videos??? 😱 Why was that? 😢
Hey guys, actually we were texted, to ask why I expressed my unhappiness in my comment on your channel. Hope all is looking good for you for the start of the season
@@sailing_utopia Good luck to us all. :) Hopefully things are made right for everyone involved in the end.
Well, I certainly will not buy a Leopard 😅
Thanks for your comment and support. If I knew then what I know now . . . . .
No different than the RV industry: absolute garbage.
Looks like the unscrupulous catamaran manufacturers fro South Africa continues, who remembers the first one? Eric Schuman and his huge plywood catastrophies. That was decades ago and Leopard looks like they have taken up the batton. How manny dreams destroyed, actually endangering lives, you should sue them for attempted murder!
Thanks for your comment George. We met many owners in the Caribbean that have resigned to being scammed by Leopard. Some had 50% offers on the repair costs, some had no replies to their communications. Some had their warranty claims outright declined, as did I in the beginning . . . . I received one email from the 'bad' guy in Cape Town saying that all warranty items on Utopia had been declined by the factory. When I asked for an explanation on a per item basis, he refused to reply. Soon after that I called the VP who told me that he had looked into the 'bad' guys communications and found no fault and that UA-cam is not the correct forum to handle warranty claims. I wish he was correct.
We are South Africans that emigrated to Australia years ago and I have to agree, in the 13 MONTHS it took Leopard to complete the aftermarket work on Utopia, we came across many scam artists in South Africa. It could be just the marine industry or perhaps it is what South Africa has become since I left: Nigeria mark II
It is my opinion that you are wrong about the rust. Its not fixing or repairing anything. Its cleaning
😂😂😂😂 Show me an engine in a yacht engine bay that had rust and was removed permanently after a good "cleaning". Can you indicate which parts of a marine engine are OK to be made of rustable materials ??
@@paulrodrigues5562it's obvious you have no clue about marine engines. Many parts are made of iron and Leopard doesn't build the engines.
@laurapitre5797 I've owned a few. And the parts made of iron , are they required to be painted with a engineer spec'd protective paint ?
Hey Joe, thanks for your comment. Another comment above seemed more accurate than my using 'clean' or 'repair'. He said the following : "I would be referring to your engine room issues not as a “clean” which to my mind down plays the damage, but as a “restoration”. Yes as a part of that restoration you will also require a deep clean, but the engine and hull will also require “reparations” to remove rust and replace damaged paint and repair damaged gel coat and IMHO that is not “cleaning” " Thanks for your support Joe
@sailing_utopia I can get with restoration. That sounds better. Why you even have to play a game of linguistics is ridiculous. They need to stand on their work.
Leopard is the worst boat manufacturers out there
When u coming to trinidad
We were supposed to come spend time with Trent in November but he said he'd be leaving by December, so we passed on by. We don't have any plan to come that far south because in the coming season, we plan to spend time in the Bahamas. Why do you ask? Will you come to the Bahamas?
Would Leapord go broke if they fixed all their problems world wide?
This is becoming the Norm......
I wouldn't buy A Leapord, however, this seems to be the norm with every new vessel sail or motor.
Like the movie Nemo..... just keep swimming.....
Hey Brent, I could fix it for them. I could do it in my sleep. They are losing so much business that the cost to fix their broken business would be way way less than the profit value of the lost sales. Thanks for your support
lewmar and raymarine are crap equipment, I had failiures on my boat with those brands, and leopard is a horrible builder amazing they are still sellling boats, I am going to be in the market for a cat next year, even for free I won t have a leopard
Raymarine have made seriously regressive designs with the new Axiom/ i70 systems that try to intergrate NEMA 0183 and 2000 , the ITC-5 converter is not fit for purpose, we have massive wind speed and direction outages during any weather with electrical activity, I know two other boats with identical issues and I know that Raymarine is looking to upgrade its masthead transducer to cope with this issue, our whole system is brand new. The ST60 systems worked the auto pilot was far superior. I wish I had spent the extra on B&G.
@@ssmith4045 I suspect the ITC-5 as being a possibility for our wind and current issues. Regardless, the Axiom is totally unstable. I have g=heard that B&G is far superior. I would happily pay twice the difference for no issues with the nav equipment
I fully understand. If we had known then what we know now . . . .
What you are referring to when you compare it to a car it's called here in the United States a "lemon law"
Lemon laws only apply to cars. And it was a law that was enacted back in the '70s. It would never be allowed to become law today. Simply because manufacturers corporations run the United States now. Anyway the point I'm trying to make is it only applies to cars not boats and by law they don't have to make you whole in other words get you back to where you were when you paid for it. And because of that they're not going to. It would be the right thing to do companies and corporations don't do the right thing anymore so you're not going to get your money back
Your 'Lemon Law' is interesting. But in South Africa they do have laws which require the consumer be made 'whole'. We are hoping and indeed have tried and are still trying everything to avoid the long legal ball and chain. In October and November we will find out where this whole thing goes. It is 100% up to Leopard
Leopard had (past tense) an excellent reputation for boat build and support. Then they took on investors/venture capital, pursued growth and things seem to have gone downhill since then.
They seem (and this is conjecture) to have expanded beyond their ability to maintain build quality, quality control and after sales support. They're building and selling lots of boats and that appears to be all that matters. The website of the yard repeatedly boasts they are now the 3rd largest cat builders in the world. Volume and not quality appears to be their goal now. Perhaps to drive up the perceived value of the business so the investors see their planned ROI.
I'm not sure who'd want to buy one, given that so many owners are going through this warranty nightmare. They've certainly been taken off my list of buying options.
Thanks for commenting. Yes, we have also heard that back-in-the-day Leopards were about quality, before the private equity firms, when the original owners, John Robertson and the late Jerry Caine ran the business. Having been stuck on Utopia at their dock for 13 months while they did the aftermarket and warranty work, I don't think it is ability thing that limits them from maintaining build quality, quality control and after sales support. I think it is an attitude thing. To be frank and specific Management arrogance which has also lead to gross incompetence in the ranks.
Why would anyone buy a leopard
Didn’t leopards get bought out or something?? Seems like there’s a weird loophole of yacht companies getting bought. Only looking out for their investors I probably don’t know what I’m talking about but I seen some other videos of not particularly leopard but just shady practices with yatch companies. Ultimately it just ends up being a court process drawn out for years to come. It’s pretty sad
Thanks for your comment. The factory, Roberson and Caine was bought by a Czech company 18 months ago. They were sold by the the original owners, John Robertson and the late Jerry Caine, a long time back. Apparently it was after John and Jerry sold it, it slowly started going downhill. While it was good, the warranty structure between R&C and Leaopard/Travelopia worked. But only while R&C was good. We really have done everything to avoid that long drawn out court process and until the very end, November in Ft Lauderdale, will continue. We have hope that the VP who we will meet in October does the right thing. It is all up to him. Thanks for your support
unfortunately you get what you pay for, they are cheap production sea caravans.built to that standard.
Leopard cats are kinda crap to begin with. Hopefully, you don't have any problems with the shit chiller they include.
Thanks for your comment. The chiller is an option that I never took. Instead, thinking that they would be low-draw, I went to a third-party supplier for 4 x 48v aircons but unfortunately the same brand as the chiller - Frigomar. They are definitely not low-draw . . . together, the four units (total 58k BTU) can draw of 5kw ! Also, the 3rd party dealer/installer was another South African industry scam artist. Crap install job
What a rip-off of a boat.
Lemon
Yes, a very sour lemon at that. We wish that we could return it
Leopard brand cat are shitty products buy at your own risk…..simple as that. Never never buy a Leopard hatch.
My plenty problems ent
Thanks for your comment. Yes,. plenty plenty problems 😞
Buy in the EUROPEAN Union. They have laws and standards.
It is not a great comfort there is a recent story on YT of an owner being shafted by a French boatbuilder.
Thanks for your comment. Yes, we have heard that. The issue though is that the person with whom you deal, in the European Union, is a broker. You are actually transacting in Dollars, with the USA company "Mariner Yachts International" aka Leopard
ANYONE that knows anything about boats knows that things like the Lewmar port holes are a warranty issue with Lewmar and NOT Leopard. Stop throwing stones and laying blame where it doesn't belong.
The "Leopard" brand is owned by Robertson and Caine and used by the broker. Robertson and Caine continue to use these Lewmar portlights with a record of them prematurely failing and no guarantee of a change in production process. Imagine customers realising this and being disgruntled for having their time wasted.
ua-cam.com/video/VYrGYtFD-LM/v-deo.html
Thanks for that.
Yea if you bash the company before you get there and see what they fix you won’t be well received. If everyone knows these are exactly like you say they are then you bought exactly what you knew you are getting.
Did you pick out the flir camera? There ending then there won’t have to be a fight. There isn’t a fight your convincing people not to buy them and everyone is aware they have issues. I am going to go ahead and say you could have cleaned that engine room and most the other issues in the time it took you to make that video.
My gosh UA-cam comments make you hateful sorry I haven’t even been on a sail boat just something about that complaining was hard to get away from
I most certainly won't be purchasing a leopard after this. In the early days Leopard's standards were bloody good. Hello Lagoon