When it comes to safety equipment I always remember what a Austrian Mountain Rescue guy once said: expensive mountaineering equipment last up to ten years. Cheap mountaineering equipment last a lifetime. 😂😂😂
I'm a avid swimmer, doing 1/2 mile every day in a pool. I struggled to finish a 1 mile open water swim in 65 degree water, as hypothermia started to shut down my muscles after 30 minutes. There's no way an average person can swim 1 mile in 60 degree water.
There is the old rule of the 50s. A healthy male has a 50/50 chance of swimming 50 feet in 50º water. Most of our understanding of hyperthermia comes from the nazis experimenting on downed allied flyers , the hard way.
I totally agree. I got rescued after 1 hour in about 60 degree water. I was already on another planet Felt warm and not a care in the world....absolutely gone..
I had an older coworker who spent his life on the water from the time he was a toddler. Never wore a life jacket, so one solo fishing trip he went forward to set the anchor when he lost his balance and toppled overboard. His boat at the time had no boarding ladder and he discovered that his older self wasn’t that spry guy of his youth that could pull himself over the gunnel anymore. As he bobbed up and down treading water, he realized how badly he screwed up. Thankfully he was a problem solver and managed to walk up the anchor rode to put enough slack in it to throw it around a stern cleat and use it like a manrope to climb aboard. He now wears an inflatable vest whenever he is underway and puts a stern line overboard and moves a ladder close to the gunnel before moving forward to set the hook.
Like starfishsystems said, that was at anchor, not while underway. Anyway, my favorite part of the video was the old man demonstrating his tether method on the dock. Wow. If his vessel were underway - even in favorable conditions - he could easily drown. To be that old and that dumb is something you don't see every day, and now he's spreading his stupidity all over the world.
We used to do personal survival as teenagers. I used to have to swim 1/2 a mile in my clothes in a pool and I was a competition level swimmer and it nearly killed me.
@@ChrisinOSMS I’m between boats right now. But my next one will probably be a 44 feet or so centre cockpit yacht… under way the rule will be absolute no one leaves the cockpit without a lifejacket and being attacked to a lifeline. I am an occupant psychologist and a big believer in systems. Your friend’s experience is a perfect example of why safety systems exist. Yes you can go forward 1000 times and nothing happens… but one trip and it’s a different story. He was lucky he didn’t get knocked out on the way overboard.
I was lucky enough to survive and learn young the hard way. Five pints of Guinness no life jacket and a sailing dinghy blended with a summer squall. The tiller ripped out of the transom and the boat was immediately uncontrollable. It capsized and no I had not tied off the dagger board. Someone happened to be walking on the beach and saw me. I had managed to wedge my hand in the centre board slot so I didn’t slip in when I lost consciousness. Did I mention my dog? No? He clawed his way to safety, thank god, up my back which looked like I had been given fifty lashes. I was unconscious when rescue arrived and the hull was covered in my blood. You don’t need any safety equipment until you need it all. The only reason I survived was because the barmaid was worried that I was being stupid. She was so right.
Thanks for sharing. Our purpose for doing the sailors debrief is so others don’t make the mistakes we do. We appreciate you taking HHN the time out of your day to view and watch
Here's something a life-raft packer / inspector said on Tom Clunliffe's Yachts & Yarns channel, I'll try to quote. "It's not even about how good a swimmer you are. _If you get thrown into the English seas (English Channel, Irish Sea, North Sea, etc.) they're all very cold. You get submerged and your first instinct is to gasp in shock due to the cold, and then you're in real trouble._ And that's something to bear in mind worldwide. Safety equipment is not only there to help you out in the best-case scenario, it's also there for the worst case unexpected "unpredictable" scenarios. Use the right kit, all the time, every time - or else! Another thing eSysMan (the superyacht crew channel guy) says is he, and every colleague he knows, know of NOT ONE instance where the owner (and their family) has gone through emergency safety procedures. Every crew has (by law). But owners are "above" such things and captains - hired hands - never press them on it. The owner of the Bayesian died along with almost his entire family. Would emergency procedure protocol training have saved their lives? We don't know and likely will never know for certain, but what we DO know for certain is the training would only have increased their chances of survival, it wouldn't have diminished them one iota.
Well we went on a DFDS vessel and I would think that few of the passengers had done any training either. Lets face it, these people are passengers on very large vessels who pay professional crew to keep them safe. It has brought home a point to me, that every time I do a safety briefing on our boat I must point out the location of the only hatches a human can get out of and ensure that my crew and passengers know how to open those hatches. Maybe some Emergency Exit signs are needed.
@@philgray3443 It's not a huge vessel, they would have known their ways out. UNLESS that vessel was in the dark and at 90 degrees in which case it becomes the maze from The Shining.
Lots of stupid sailors make it back, and the sea has claimed the lives of many experienced and wise and careful sailors. All we can do is try to stack the odds in our favour : training, equipment, sensibleness. Best odds are better than worst odds, but they're not guarantees only probabilities.
My favourite tongue-in-cheek saying for awhile now has been - “When your draft exceeds your depth, you are most assuredly aground....” It works in more than the literal sense too. I’ve got near on 50 years both power and sail but the moment you think you know it all is the moment you create a massive blind spot for yourself. Working as a transportation safety investigator I have heard all manner of inane statements about how prepared people thought they were...right up to the moment the universe smacked them down hard. Can you be too safe? Possibly. You want to find that out definitely the same instant you realize you’ll never see your kids again? Sadly many have.
The only way to be too safe is to never leave port. Otherwise, all safety precautions are good safety precautions. I never ceased to be amazed at how many boaters skip the most obvious safety precaution, a life vest!!!
I have fallen off at 6 knots fully clothed and managed to grab the webbing side handle on the inflatable that was being towed behind the yacht. I can tell you at the age of 25 being fit and strong there was no way I could maintain my grip as the drag through the water fully clothed was substantial. I was not tethered on. Fortunately for me the skipper brought the yacht round and got me. It was on an inland waterway in 15c temp. I learnt my lesson and was lucky. Now in my 60s and sailing mainly 2 handed our setup is as this gentleman states. Any other way I know I am toast if I end up overboard.
One year I was in the double handed Farallon island race. If i recall correctly 4 died; two of which alongside their boats. Dragged and drowned. Knowing what to do, how to rig and recover are crucial. .
As a sailor of forty years; I completely agree that your tether should keep you 'on' the boat; Even if you're not solo, yachts are heavy, moving objects. Every now and then, you'll get a wave that unbalances you.
We’ve dragged a line behind our catamaran while under sail, and you absolutely cannot pull yourself back onboard if the boat is going faster than 3 kts. It was quite an eye opening experience, and we were glad we practiced this in safe conditions and good weather so we really understood just how important it was.
We appreciate the comments and thanks for reinforcing this. It is great the see people practice the MOB drills. It is eye opening once you see how difficult it can be.
Happy to always listen to Christian Williams! So much more than sailing can be learned from Mr. Williams! Scray, serious stuff here your teaching, but good to keep people on their toes I guess.
Hooray! I still can't believe there are sailors who think they could swim to the back of a moving boat in a MOB situation using a lifeline. The best advice you gave was, stay and plan on staying on the boat in the first place. I have known sailors who have said they would rather drown then float off into the abyss, I have countered I would rather use a centerline safety line and snug it to always stay on top and have a lifejacket on. To drown within sight of land because you don't believe in the best practices, just crazy. Thank you! John
Thanks for your support. I understand the thinking,,, but the facts dont support it. Growing up my dad reminded my that when we were slow and complaining, he would have us jump in and try to keep up. Our perspective immediately changed. But we did cool off.
@@ministryofsailing It is hard to deny facts, as a kid you question everything, not to mention you know everything..lol My friend's dad did that to us too on Long Island Sound, we swan for about 3 minutes at our maximum endurance, and we had to be plucked out of the water.
I am not a a sailor never have been, except a U.S.NAVY sailor. The best take away for me is DO YOUR RESEARCH, DO YOUR RESEARCH! I'll watch more of these videos in the future, not that I'll be sailing anywhere but, it is so logical and I do watch lots of sailing videos, very informative!
As a young man, strong and fit I would clean my hull below the waterline pre-race day using ropes tied around the hull and free diving the yacht. My freeboard was about three foot, and I tried to get back on deck without using any aids, I couldn't do it. My advice would be that your jack line be as tight as possible and your tether has one end as short as practical. One size (length) does not suit all.
blue 3 nemo i have one and its cool as hell easy scuba diving in shallow waters it will get below your boat for sure.. yea cost a lot .. but its scuba diving gear ... life support for under water is not cheap..
Exactly. Jacklines are often run close to the toerail. In my mind they should run down the centreline of the boat and used with short tethers to keep you on deck.
very important message, thanks. Great venue you're at! As a former manager of a large charter fleet as well as many decades of sailing in cold water, dismastings and students/customers that later ended up in tragic situations, your messages rings true.
Thanks TallyHo… I was raised here in LG so it was great to be back. Send me an email and I will share our emergency action plan assessment of a local YC. A lot of lessons learned
There is some dangerous survivor bias in these videos. We are prone to think acts we got away with repeatedly are safe practices, when really we just got lucky.
Wow… it’s really interesting that you used the term “survivor bias”. The three tips we provided are based on that concept. We chose not to go into the details of “Survivor bias” but, tip number, do your own research.
The best comment I've ever heard regarding safety equipment was regarding motorcycle helmets. A new motorcyclist was asking the grizzled old biker "Why should I spend $300 on this helmet when there's one here for $50?" The old biker replied "How much is your head worth?" Nuff said? The same goes for safety equipment in any undertaking. I've been involved in stock car racing at a national level for, I think, 24 years. I remember when the HANS device came out lots of guys didn't like them. I can tell you that it saved the life of the driver I work for at a 180 mph or so wreck at Talladega. Don't believe me? Look up Brad Smith Talladega Wreck" and see for your self. Eat a few more hot dogs if you have to instead of steak but buy good safety gear, your life may depend on it one day.
My first experience in anything like offshore sailing/racing was in 1968. It was long distance coastal, rather than deep sea, in the Canadian/US Pacific Northwest. Much of the equipment and procedures we take for granted today were yet to be invented, or even thought of. The biggest difference between now and then was an attitude of safety, not equipment. We spent hours perfecting spinnaker handling and a few minutes discussing (not rehearsing) man overboard protocol. Looking back now is terrifying and we shouldn’t have been allowed to leave the dock, but we met the then current regulations. We all survived, but were never seriously tested. Keep spreading your message, it is important.
Thanks - we appreciate the Masters and what you have done. Your efforts of adventure and expedition provided a foundation for the followers. Our job is add controls - making it safe(r).
Mr "I never wear a life jacket" has never had the misfortune to experience falling half body into the water on a moving sailboat. During my first experience of using a trapeze on a Flying Ant as a teenager, I made the mistake of not bracing my forward leg and ended up over the side as we came over a wave. The skipper (also a teenager) froze up and didn't release the main sheet. Now I'm being dragged. It was nigh on impossible to get back into the boat while I was being practically keel hauled, and that's as a fit 16 year old. If that older man was solo sailing and fell out just that much over the side, he's being dragged over the horizon for as long as it takes for no one to come and rescue him. Just plain stupid
Thanks.. I know that guy!!! The solo guy. Make sure you listen to the interview with Dee Caffari, she talks about it. I really messed up the video, but it’s a great one. I know you will like it.
In 2003 I fell overboard while motoring in calm conditions... I was 4.2 nautical miles off shore... the water was 60 F... I did NOT have a life jacket on and I swam for 4 hours. I was super hyperthermic and should have died... when rescued some hours after I got to shore, the Coast Guard medic could not believe my body temperature was 31C or 87.8 F... the heart technically stops at 31... Ironically I had taken my Mustang survival suit off about 5 minutes before I fell overboard... no I wasn't taking a pee... I was folding a sheet from the bunk while leaning on the life line when the pelican clasp released... Since then I do not leave the dock without a proper PFD on... life lines are toward the middle of the boat and harness length will not allow me to go over... stay on board.
@@ministryofsailing ya me too... the saving grace was I am a cold water swimmer and I knew how to use my pants as a floatation device... used to be a life guard...
@@ministryofsailing Wholly appreciate that ... I am in NO way advocating complacency! I was fortunate... I was used to 60 degree F water and I knew how to use my pants as a floatation device... without which I would have died for sure!!
And Christian's video's are about single handed sialing. Where all bets are off and if you go overboard you die. If you read his books you'll know those terms are acceptable to him.
I swim in my local bay at that temperature...without a wetsuit, 30 minutes is the most I can do before I'm too cold. (In fact I usually swim in a wetsuit because I can stay in longer and to avoid feeling like a block of ice at the end). Swimming is also very slow and if there's any tidal flow against you it likely exceeds your swimming speed.
Well Done. My only offshore sailing was on a 37' sailboat. No one went on deck without being on tether to the boat--no one. We had a safe & uneventful trip & I considered the purchase of my own safety equipment as "the price of admission" to that great experience. My work took me in another direction but, I'd go sailing with a good, safe sailor tomorrow if offered.
I totally agree on the view that a tether should be short enough to keep you on the boat. I recommend my students pass the tether around the Jackline and back onto the harness, making it half-length.
No. 2 should be, One line on both the starboard and port side of the boat. Line must close to waterline. Your life jacket is hooked to a 3-hooks lifeline. On deck you use the short one, and jack line is so high what you will always have you head above the water, even better: Your upper body is above the water.. If you go MOB, you are stuck on the side of the boat (with at least you head above the water). You then hook the 3rd hook to the line who goes along the side of the boat, and then cut the other one. If the boat is moving you will be forced back to the bathing ladder where the starboard and port side lines ends.
You're absolutely right to emphasize that harnesses and tethers must be set up to keep your crew on deck. Aboard BARBARIAN, we have rated D-rings mounted in the cockpit as well as taut jacklines running forward well toward the centerline of the boat. Someone who slips and falls cannot go overboard. We carry inflatable PFDs with harnesses built in. They're comfortable and unobtrusive to wear, so we wear them. That means one less step to prepare when the weather turns foul or if someone needs to run forward. We just need to clip in, and that takes only a few seconds. I will say that working on the foredeck with a tether can become a bit of a tangle if you don't take care to maintain the topology that you came forward with. It's embarrassing to clear a fouled genoa sheet only to end up fouling it and yourself with the tether. But that's all thr more reeason to gain practice under safe conditions, well before setting out into more chaotic weather.
This is perfect timing to be reccomended. I actually just got an old Hunter 23 (my first sailboat) and was going to go out sailing to try it out at the end of the summer. I had basically done exactly the same as the examples here, tied a long line to a life jacket on the assumption I would "pull myself up" with the swim ladder. And the club where I got my ASA 101 certification didn't even have us in life jackets, so I assumed I was being extra safe for sailing in a bay.
@@swooshdave He literally says that when he is solo sailing offshore he doesn't wear a vest because he is too far from any rescue vessels and would be dragged to his death if tethered while overboard. He spoke extensively about it on several of his videos that he wears one close to shore (his wife makes him do it). He also expressed the same at a coastguard surprise inspection.
@@swooshdave indeed Christian Williams wanted to emphasise, that a lifewest won't save a solo sailor. Indeed, for us single handers the step over board means certain death and no lifewest will rescue us. Therefore his emphasis on wearing a safetyharness is correct. But yes, his life line is too long and his idea of climbing back on board (especially at the age of 80) is an illusion. But: he sailed 3 times to Hawaii and back and is still alife. That's more than most of us ever did.
I agree with most of your points but take exception to the one on Christian Williams Sailing @5:25. He is a solo ocean sailor and for him, if he goes into the water while underway, I life jacket will make no difference and arguably would greatly decrease any possibility of pulling himself back on board. What he is showing with a harness and short tether is his only chance for self-rescue which is slim to none. Basically, he much stay on board or die, period. When I solo sail in the inland Salish Sea [western WA and BC], I wear my inflatable offshore rated inflatable with harness and my Sospenders Double and use the 3' tether. The short tether to hopefully keep me on board and the quick release to not get dragged if I go over. I would then hope that another boater would see me although that is a faint hope. I really should get a PLB and attach it to my life jacket.
PLBs are game changers,,, so are Sat Coms… I do not think it’s unrealistic to say there is a better chance of survival, solo with the newer technology. You are 100 percent correct about that shorty tether as well.
I think the point is that Christian's tether should be shorter than what he is demonstrating. He should not be able to fall over the edge of the deck and through the lifelines. Christian has lots of interesting videos -- and is great storyteller -- but he is also a bit of a crotchety old man with odd opinions when it comes to sailing. For instance he thinks people who have dodgers are silly and amateurish (apparently he never sails upwind in heavy seas) and instead of a Bimini he puts up a patio umbrella for shade. He thinks that is better. I wonder how many of his umbrellas are at the bottom of the Santa Monica Bay?
Your comment about "It's meant to keep you on the deck" is one I've never heard before even on my RYA training courses, but males a lot of sense! So as my yacht doesn't have any reliable clip-on points, I will adjust the jacklines better to remove any slack. 😃
I have personally tested a challenge of pulling myself back on 22ft boat sailing, only 2 ft free board, at 2knts on a sunny summer day near Brooklyn. It was going 2 knts, because the was no wind, which means - no waves, no swell, no real life conditions - a bathtub like situation. My friend was driving the boat. Me - around 35 y.o, top physical shape, pfd on, 15 ft line off of the stern. With the line being as it normally is, the closer I was bringing myself, the more difficult it was getting, to the the point that I couldn't bring myself closer than 5 ft off the stern, as my hands were slipping on the rope. We've changed the test by tying knots every 2 feet or so. I was able to bring myself to the stern, grab the rail, but my muscles were too tired to climb back on board. My hands were too tired to hold on to that rail much longer. As a result of this test - I suggest that everyone exhausts all options to stay on the boat, before thinking of anything else. I have though, made a 15 ft rope ladder, with a knotted end just hanging off of the quarter within reach from the water, and normally use it for climbing on board after swimming, knowing that i will never used that option for any rescue nonsense. Good Seamanship - is a better choice.
I appreciate you watching the video. Furthermore, you took time out of your weekend (Labor Day weekend) to write this… thanks so much. I am glad you get the big picture.
I’m constantly surprised at how many sailing youtubers don’t take basic safety precautions. I wear an inflatable PFD with a whistle, strobe, and small floating VHF radio on me before i leave the breakwater. Next on the list is a PLB.
I'm really glad you're pointing this stuff out. I'm not a sailor and I'm seeing some really dangerous behavior by some of the folks on these channels. I've seen solo crossing open ocean swimming with sail up. Lack of any tie off in heavy weather. List goes on. Maintenance is often a huge issue, I can't believe some of the chopping and hacking people are doing on boats with no mind to structure or bulkheads. Keep it up and thanks for working to save lives.
Thank you for your definite statements. Please let me add experience from a charter sailor's perspective, that is: You hardly manage to find or install enough hard points or jacklines on a charter yacht respectiuvely. To achieve the goal of staying on board, a sailor needs some extra rules, because he has to deal with compromises. 1. Find and define existing hard points and rails for suitability. A boat owner migth do this once and add extra points. No way on a charter yacht. 2. Practice, as you said, especially any elasticity of jacklines and find hardpoints, fulfilling the job of keeping your jackline in position thus you on board. Take your time to find out. 3. When sailing, take extra time when changing tether points. One single charter week or so never lets you get enough practice to do a change "automatically". You always have to use your cortex for a safe change.
I was a little sceptical of where this vlog was going, given its title as I do enjoy watching a number of sailing channels and find a lot of good advice and ideas. That said, as a professional sailor, I 100% agree with what this video says. I NEVER advise anyone not to wear a life jacket. I confess I do not always follow this advice for myself on my vessel but I would never advise people not to. Second, I would only ever use tethers and harnesses for purpose or what is the point? Finally, there are very well documented cases of people drowning as they have fallen overboard, despite being tethered in - largely due to incorrect use of the lines. They are intended to keep you on board and the chances of you being able to recover from being overboard when you are on your own from a vessel still moving through the water is virtually zero. Remember, your average offshore yacht is on autopilot while you are working on deck so don’t think the yacht will simply round up into the wind. The force of the water against you as you try to haul yourself aboard will make it almost impossible in anything but calm conditions.
Thanks so much for commenting and following our first trip being skeptical. As a pro would be great for you to reach out via email on our website. We are also pros. Be great to hear from you collaborate.
Excellent video! Sailing CAN be a very safe sport, but as the saying goes, ya got to know your limitations! Limits of weather, navigational hazards, equipment limits, and limits for the captain and crew inform what actions should be taken. Sometimes the best action is to stay in port! Hope you do a video in a similar vein as this one on DIY modifications. I've seen several sailing videos that have ill advised or even dangerous mods to production sailboats. Cutaway bulkheads, removal of (those pesky) interior parts (that are structural members). Cheers!
Gatta say 'thanks' for the reality check. I've been begging my wife for years to someday get a sailboat and go somewhere. She always (and smartly) replied with 'not until you know what you're doing'. I guess its stuff like this that she was talking about. I do plan to take some sailing classes eventually though
Thanks for this. I will be getting an actual harness instead of clipping to my near shore vest, and shortening the tether to keep me on deck. I have been single handing for years with nothing, then thought I was OK with the vest and a roofer's tether. Last time I sailed on Lake Geneva was at the Inland Lakes Yachting Association regatta back in the 60's.
Spot on! I’ve attempted to self rescue in a controlled test with the boat motoring 4 knots and me over the side with an approved Hydrostatic jacket/harness and tether. It is almost impossible just to keep your head above water. I couldn’t do it and I’m 40 and decently fit. Setup jack lines, tethers and harnesses to keep you ON DECK. 👍
There is a UK company which has adressed this to a degree, their lifejackets are designed to turn you so the tether tows you on your back, they're called Teamo the guy who set them up did so after someone drowned in circumstances similar to what you describe and he couldn't interest the larger manufacturers in his system.
respect for the sea includes an understanding that any sailor, seasoned or novice, cautious or foolhardy can die on the water. Everyone who ventures out has a right the chose the level and type of preparation they bring with them. Our main concern should be that everyone is aware of the risks and of what constitutes minimum or higher levels of preparation, including training and practice. It's critical that captains take time to evaluate and communicate the risks and options to crew and guests prior to leaving the dock.
I was absolutely stunned!! If want to be shocked, go read the comments from their followers!!! It is truly unfortunate that people agree. So many thank these folks.
@@ministryofsailing Christian Williams is an accomplished sailor with many years behind the mast. His sense of humor and wit was accentuating his exact message of staying on the boat
@@MultiBmorganit’s like he intentionally left that part out. Typical club racer mentality. “My way of sailing is the only way to do it, otherwise you’re unsafe!”
Happy to help… glad you tuned in… keep it up and do your research. The information is out there, take a look at the OSRs and Safety at Sea from US Sailing, Cruising Yacht Club of America or TriSail Storm club
Mike, I totally clicked on this video expecting to see you too, 😂😂😂!!! I was surprised to see Christian Williams on here but I can see where this guy is coming from. Christian has been doing this so long he’s gotten complacent in his own ability. That’s fine for him I guess but for new sailors his advice is not exactly sound…
Shocking the amount of folks I see who have no idea how to use a work position harness. As for swimming, I got stranded on a reservoir while windsurfing a few years back - becalmed. Once I'd fought to get the rig out of the water and all trussed on deck, I swam sidestroke with one arm hooked over the nose of my board so all I had to do was kick. It took HOURS and I suffered severe cramp and made it more by luck than judgement. I know I'd have failed to self rescue in any kind of current or swell.
Everyone should jump overboard with his safety gear on. Pick a nice day, at moderate speed, with help aboard. Then extrapolate to rough seas, a high speed racer, alone, and cold water. I guarantee you will make a "course correction" about your safety plans. PS On ship safety drills, with 2 lookouts watching the overboard target from high above the water, on the bridge, we still sometimes lose a 3 foot cube, simulated man overboard... From a low deck, in rough water, with difficulty turning in the wind a loose man is most likely... gone !
20-30 years ago, we would never use life jackets until things started to get a bit “sporty”. Back then, your only option was the bulky, uncomfortable foam filled things. Now, with reasonably priced, self inflating jackets with an integrated harness that is so light and comfortable, there really is no excuse for not using one.
@@MultiBmorganthat’s just not true, most self (if not all) inflating life jackets comply with ISO 12402 for off shore use with a minimum of 150N buoyancy. 275N and above are only recommended if carrying heave equipment ie tools or weapons as it makes it more difficult to swim and enter a life raft from the water. The ISO 12402 series for personal flotation devices (lifejackets and buoyancy aids) was prepared by the European Committee for Standardization (CEN) Technical Committee CEN/TC 162, Protective clothing including hand and arm protection and lifejackets, in collaboration with Technical Committee ISO/TC 188, Small craft, in accordance with the Agreement on technical cooperation between ISO and CEN (Vienna Agreement).
Thank you for tuning in and watching it really appreciate it please share and like please let me know if you ever in an area of town or we go sailing together
Thanks for watching. We are going to do a special on single handed sailing, we think that today, more than ever PFDs are a good thing for single handed sailors… recoveries have been made from 800 miles away
@@ministryofsailing Looking forward to that episode! Such an easy choice to wear a PFD+PLB and use a short tether at night and/or when leaving the cockpit. So many popular UA-cam channels lack basic safety protocols.
I always wear an inflatable vest when on the water. I like the WW2 flight vest. It saved my life once on a lake. I would never be on a boat in the ocean without wearing one on deck when under way. That and on foggy days, the one piloting can see me in the vest better when I am on the deck working the sails. I could never understand making a tether that will let you fall off the boat. Especially if you were alone. It would turn you into a shark lure.
Anyone that's been in the water with the boat on the mooring and tried to get back on board will know that you aren't going to be able to do it while the boat is moving. That's why there are boarding ladders. Anyone that's waterskied or been on a towed tube behind a motorboat can tell you what it's like getting towed when you can easily let go of the tow line. There is no substitute for being clipped in. Good job.
Keep doing "youtubers are trying to kill u vids" by far your most successful vid🍻🍻 us youtube sailors are rule breakers and people need to be warned!!😂😅
Thanks so much. We are going back and forth - we will find positive reinforcement as well. When you see it, send it to us… remember we are sharing the standards that we teach from the OSRs. And the skills from Safety at Sea courses we teach
When the average boat is moving at hull speed, it takes 3 to 3.5 seconds to move one boat length. It does not matter if the boat is 15 feet or 80 feet.
You’re on the right track in the sense that UA-cam algorithms highlight the young and beautiful instead of the most experienced and knowledgeable. But Christian Williams is an experienced off shore single handed sailor, and at one time he was, like yourself, a club racer. Club racing with full crew is fun, but it’s not offshore single handed sailing. There is a legitimate argument for an offshore single hander to opt for a more comfortable (more often worn) tether and harness to stay on the boat instead of an inflatable that can hinder self recovery when inflated. Additionally, you have to be honest about how you’d like to face eternity… if you do go over, do you want to bob around for a week while the sharks nibble and you grow weaker from dehydration? The idea that only the approved offshore safety regs are appropriate is as flawed as the UA-cam algorithm picking beauty over seamanship.
Thanks for your comment. I absolutely am thrilled that there is a space on UA-cam for sailing discussions on safety… agree that the OSRs don’t fit everyone, but I haven’t found anything else to point too.
The 3rd guy seems to forget that it doesn’t matter how good of a swimmer you are, it’s not the skill or lack thereof that will kill you, it’s the panic that happens when you are unexpectedly thrown over, or when you get a gulp of water. It’s the panic that will kill you. Case in point. Mt Trashmore in VA Beach (2008 ish). The little lake there is popular for RC boats as it is forbidden to swim or boat in the lake. So us RC guys get a free run without worrying about some jack wagon trying to swamp our little models. A guy I ran boats with many times didn’t bring his recovery boat when he was running a gas boat. Of course it ran out of fuel not at the launch, but pretty close to the launch. He decided to wade/swim out to the boat to recover it. As he was walking in waist deep water there was a ledge and he fell into 20’ deep water in one step. He inhaled some water and panicked. He was a skilled swimmer. He started to drown, another guy went in after him but the first guy was so panicked he was going to drown them both, so the second guy had to give up the rescue attempt. The first guy drowned, and his body wasn’t found for 2 days.
So very sorry that you had to experience this and thanks for sharing. I hope others may learn… nobody goes out to have a great day with the intentions to be drowned. I understand somethings happen, but awareness helps people understand how things that can cause harm occur, so they can identify the risk and protect themselves.
While the carabiner s the couple were using doesnt look all that great as seen in the video, and the bowline is not great for that application for sure, I have personally used Marine rated tethers, that explicitly say not for arresting a fall, yeah wtf, where mountain climbing carabiner's I prefer to use, do not have that warning, and also self lock. They are designed to arrest a fall, and they actually look, function, weigh less and operate smoother than marine rated tethers I have, yes including the twin hook tether....and yes I am only crew, but carry my own tethers and pfd's because I don't trust shared equipment Also that great double clip marine tether (yes the one you need to comply with offshore racing rules) , you so conveniently forget to mention also cant quick release under load either. yes it has a overload indicator, but that is purely there so the race scrutineer can see it has taken a load and make you replace it. If you think that tether can quick release under load , without any other ancillary equipment, then please demonstrate live how to do it, because I have that exact tether as well, and it will drag you along just as well as the tether the couple were using. Sure the PFD can have a quick release added, but the tether does not have it, and you so conveniently forget to trash it for dragging you. And While I have had fights over the Jack stays positions on yachts, even the ones that do comply with offshore regulations will still have you overboard on even on a short regulation tether. Definitely a bit of a click bait holier than though video . The offshore rules apply to racers for good reason, because they go looking for trouble at the max all the time, and are notorious for taking shortcuts for more speed, cruisers....not so much
Thanks for the well thought out comment. To date, there are two known cases where quick release systems let go prematurely. One was the Hook Race 2019, I was in that race. . And yes, not letting go has more cases. These were not conveniently left out. They are on the floor of the edit room. The Harness Release System (HRS) was specifically designed because of those issues. The system is not metal so there is less to maintain. Spinlock has worked very hard in consulting with many of the most advanced AC and Ocean Racers during development. One caveat to this video is that Mast Harness, with a Tylaska t12 is a really good solution. We address jack lines in the sailing at night series located in the Pro Tips Play list and the Sailing Rescue Swimmer Certification Play list. Thanks again for your comment. I will specifically create a video showing the danger of the most common snap shakel and its faults. Many forget to maintain them and they get dirty and rusty. Store them in the open position, and they will oxidize less in the critical areas. During Safety at Sea courses, in the “in the Water section” I specifically discuss this with each participant. Keep the rust off of that the shackles and maintain them. Another reason we the HRS. Exists. Send me an email. I love this discussion. If your around for Annapolis Boat show. We can film it together!
Oh I forgot… “be critical” be a skeptic, tip one!!!! Even on me. Sail safe you sound like you really push your team on safety, that’s really important.
Have a rope type ladder that can deployed from the water. SOLAS training will tell you that almost no regular human can swim 25YDS in the clothing that might be worn on board while at sea.
Terrific video…. Totally Correct in every aspect. Maybe the next video can be about jack lines, safety harness and life vest stowage and deck drills on how to safely move about in all types of weather?
@@ministryofsailing Mostly F18 Catamaran in long distance Raid , but i sail various sailing boat including Figaro 1, Lagoon catamaran and a good old Super Arlequin GTE.
@@ministryofsailing When you do F18 catamaran and use to capsize often in race pushing hard in 25+kn winds, you know how it's hard to swim with your cloth and how impossible it is to climb while dragged by the boat, including how fast you become tired and hypothermia.
Mostly useless advice excluding the first about staying onboard and the EPIRB. An autopilot remote and a mobile device (most anyway) won’t survive immersion in water for long enough to function by the time you’ve got yourself in a position to use it. Too many sailors have an over dependence on electrical equipment for safety - once again EPIRB excepted. And a wetsuit is totally impractical for sailing clothing unless you’re sailing a small day boat. The only safe message is STAY ON THE BOAT. Unfortunately life’s not always safe and accidents can and will happen. Like the video states, planning and education can mitigate these somewhat. But, if you can’t accept that then don’t go sailing.
I honestly don't care when people do dangerous things that put them at risk. Where I draw the line is when they begin to advocate that others do dangerous things in an unsafe manner. The more trusted an authority figure, or the broader their audience, the more agitated I get. If you want to unalive yourself by being dumb then go for it, but don't trick others into doing it too.
In the case of the water, unsafe actions, even if you are solo, will place others in danger too. You may be solo, but the USCG or another agency will go look for you. No the issue has compounded.
Great video. I sometimes watch CW's episode but somehow I missed his opinion on life vests. He couldn't be more wrong. As I like to put it... It doesn't matter how well you swim. Or how hard you hold on. What matters is how hard the boom hit you over the head when it sent you overboard. But I wonder if you can elaborate on the near shore vs offshore life vests. Falling overboard offshore, it seems to me that you either get rescued ASAP, or remain bobbing in the water for the rest of your life... A survival suit doesn't seem a feasible choice for most cruisers.
If you can afford a boat you can aford a decent lifejacket and a a decent tether. Very hard/virtually impossible to drag yourself back on the boat out of the water, plus a good chance that you'll be pulled into the water. 1 mile in 60 degree water would be difficult, potentially doable to save your life, with a suit on you'd be able to do it, without one much more difficult and certainly you're not going to be in great shape when you get there and unless its a beach/easy climb out of the water you probably won't be able to get out of the water. I wouldn't recomend it, a life jacket serves the ability to keep you on the surface and enables you to concentrate on keeping your bodily warmth around you.
Your last example was Christian Williams who was a crew member on Ted Turners winning boat in 1979 Fastnet race, He did emphasize One Hand for the boat.
Christian has a sense of humor, one hand for the boat, one for you and harnessed and clipped in at all times is what I heard and saw. Do not discount Mr.WIlliams.
@@ministryofsailingYes, yes, I AM THE LAAAAW! We get it. If you actually watch any of Christians videos, you'll see a really short tether on at all times. With kids, I musta agree, kids are dumb. They need safety vests.
If you fall into the water tethered that way you would drown, you would be dragged after the boat face down and you would drown! The clip/tether should be on your _back_ never in front on your chest. NOT. EVER. IF you have it on your back you will be dragged after the boat on your _back_ instead and with your face facing upward.
Anything can go wrong will go wrong when sailing a sailboat absolutely and hence the draw for some as absolutely is an incredible challenge. Had a boom miss my head my miliseconds and less than milimeters on a calm day out having fun on a lake😊
Yeeeeah but I’m still going to watch Mr Williams’ channel religiously. While I appreciate what you have shown here, and you are accurate I might add, I have also gained an incredible amount of knowledge from his channel. It’s very enjoyable as well. I actually had watched the video you pulled the clip from and back then I said I’m not going to do that. That said it’s every sailors responsibility to be his or her own safety enforcement. Common sense is a big part of anything you do on the water and you can not take anything for granted. So of course you should always wear a vest. For me it’s all the time not just underway or when on deck. For someone else it may only be when under way and on deck. I wear mine always because if I’m below deck and something goes wrong I don’t want to waste precious time looking for and putting on my vest. Some may think this is overkill. Perhaps. However, I’d rather be too safe than not safe enough. I also carry two life boats and extra beacons. But that’s just me. I think you would be better served explaining what was wrong, which you did, AND contacting those creators and giving them an opportunity to correct and clarify their positions. This is just my opinion. It cost you what you paid for it.
Thanks for taking the time to write that note. Each of the creators were contacted. None responded. We field questions as we train from people who are using techniques demonstrated by those videos.. remember that thing called COVid when everyone bought a boat, but no one could train them because of social distancing? These are the videos people watched for training.
@@ministryofsailing Jim has stepped back from sailing and making videos, I'm not suprised you didn't get a response. I also disagree with his use of an inshore life jacket with a line tied through it, I can't defend it. But his other videos have been a wealth of information to many sailors, particularly in the C22 community. He got this one wrong, but he's gotten a lot right and a lot of C22 owners have learned a lot from him - before, during, and after COVID.
This will also sound like a commercial plug - and it is in a way but because I believe the product has a point - I'd recomend having a look at team-o's life jackets, they are designed so if you do end up in the water attached by a tether it will turn you round and tow you on your back, rather than face first which has drowned people.
Team O (zero) have the dorsal release which is great- but not USCG. The only vest that comes complete, straps, spray hoods, lights and whistles (all OSRs) is Spinlock, US and UK versions!
I love this because I often tell people who sell Bigfoot and I ask them the question have you ever had an issue and most certainly always reply now. Then the next question is do you think that’s going to predict the future? You’re really drive down the point thank you so much for watching.
To be fair, #2 I do t think he was saying he’d catch the transom on his way past but that he wanted enough line that he wouldn’t e getting dragged alongside the boat in the wake where there isn’t a ladder. At least if you’re behind the boat you can use the line to pull yourself back up to the transom ladder. I’m am curious though, how are those differently shaped carribeaners any easier to release? I could see their shape making it easier to clip them on, but they don’t seem any easier to release.
First it’s a double action, the latest and given the angle, they rotate easily. But the greatest is a harness release system or HRS advancements. Made of synthetic material, less maintenance of metals and the impact of a water environment.
My friends son swam 11.8 miles from Fremantle to Rottnest Island. Very quickly. He is a superb athlete and highly trained ultra marathon swimmer. The rest of you are not. Thanks for an excellent video. We follow a simple rule. Life jackets are not negotiable. Like seat belts in cars, they save lives. Month after month we have young guys fishing on our Moreton Bay who go overboard and are never seen again. Their lifejackets are usually neatly stowed on board. The reason they are never seen again is probably down to our very healthy shark population.
Thanks for watching - We see a lot of well intended, but mis guided advice. Many of the issues are that sailors have not kept up with the latest advice or regulations. Searching the internet, it’s hard to find. It seems as if the OSRs may be the only ones @worldsailing. As a Pro sailors with many former military - we find it important to build awareness around the OSRs - not our opinions.
The first mistake all three of these sailors made is forgetting Safety Is No Accident and all three disregarded it. You want the best equipment that you can buy because you cannot buy back your life once lost. As for swimming 1 mile in 60 degree water in less than an hour, good luck. It's best not to find yourself in that position.
The last guy has done about 5 singlehanded transpacific crossings that I know of. That is how singlehanded sailors rig at sea. Myself included. I also have a climbers web ladder with a quick clip to help get me out of the water. He knows his stuff. A life preserver 800 miles from shore just prolongs the inevitable if you singlehand. Goes with the territory. Average sailor with others on board; always wear one anytime on deck.
Lucky people doing it wrong are not to be emulated. If I'm single handing on a long voyage, I have an offshore rated, harness capable PFD on at all times I'm not down below. I clip in short, and walk with a double, remaining clipped in 100% of the time, AND I have Jack lines I lead a third clipped, body tied long line into. I'm able to easily handle sails, and I can focus on handling since I know I'm clipped in and can't fall off the boat. If my harness fails, I'm long lined into the boat which gives me a small chance at self rescue, since the long line has loops tied into it at 2 foot intervals. That's it. And yes, if I'm running at 5 knots on glass, I still do this.
Just to mention there was a US Marine who fell off the back of an aircraft carrier in the middle of the Indian Ocean, he kept himself alive and afloat (tied the ends of his trousers) for 36 hours, the fleet eventually found that he was missing but couldn't find him (even with an aircraft carriers resources and knowing where they'd been). He managed to attract the attention of a fishing boat that picked him up. Seriously lucky and obviously the water wasn't that cold but it shows that there's always a chance.....
Lanyard attached to lifeline ? Buwahaha Sailing all my life. I only have a small boat as per my budget. Bit I don't care if I am on a 23' or 83' boat I tell green passengers (emphatically) ' The lifelines are all but useless ! They are just a reference point. You can run your hand along them moving fore or aft as a balance reference point. Never expect them to take any serious load, so don't put any faith in them" This may sound pessimistic ? I have been sailing, rock climbing and yacht and stage hand rigging for well over 40 years. The difference between a static load and a dynamic load is Extreme ! I would put $100.00 down to say the 99% of contemporary production boat's lifelines will not hold up to a 160 / 180lb body being thrown at them from 5' - 6' away ! The guy that suggests using a long tether (to reach the back of the boat) and attached to the lifelines? Sounds simple ? That is a total prescription for failure ! The dynamic or shock load (at just 3kts) would most likely just rip a stanchion out of the deck and possible snap an older wire lifeline. Now you are overboard, trailing behind contact with the boat and in a serious 'entrapment' scenario due to the lifeline(s) new slack. I don't mean to be mean but that suggestion (long lanyard on lifelines) is so ignorant ! I would equate it with dropping a 160 / 180 pound sack of potatoes 10' vertically and fall arrest being a 'toy biner' attached to a lever that is secured only at its base. That sack of spuds is going blow that shit up !
We appreciate you so much… some of f the comments we have received are from what I would call close minded people. The ones that say we have always do it that way. Closed to the fact they have always done it wrong.
Excelente vídeo! Eu servi na Marinha do Brasil A quantidade de acidentes que acontecem, ano a ano, por conta de não levarem a sério medidas de segurança, é absurda, no meio naval, militar ou civil.
Properly cared for flat webbing breaks at over 5000 pounds. That’s one huge safety factor. I agree stay in the boat. And in my experience. It was very rare to see a ship
@@ministryofsailingf And I'm correct about the unavailability of a proper offshore life vest as well. you should really keep your finger pointing (see above video) toward yourself. You are not the patron saint of sailing! I could easily watch a full on safety video by you, but that's not what you provided. You provided discourse of which we already have far too much of. Go race your sailboat haha. And me back my"thanks for watching" nullifier
Hi, and thanks. Different discipline, but same problem, I have been a firearms instructor, and a chief range safety officer for over 35 years, and I cannot tell you how many times people have come in to shoot, and have to rent a firearm from the range, and you ask about previous experience, and they say, well I watched a YOUTube video first so I know what I am doing. Since they have no experience of their own, they have no idea if the utube presenter actually knows what they're talking about, and they usually don't. Be very careful about the expert's hands that you are putting your, and your loved ones lives into.
As a youngster in greece working on a little boat with 14 passengers,on the return me and captain win many bears by playing the game,throw a rope net off and none of these fit youngsters could make it back to the boat ,at low speeds ,,,,
I don't watch too many sailing channels, but what happened to seamanship and common sense? Not to speak of respect for the unpredictability of being at sea? However, great video!
When it comes to safety equipment I always remember what a Austrian Mountain Rescue guy once said: expensive mountaineering equipment last up to ten years. Cheap mountaineering equipment last a lifetime. 😂😂😂
That’s funny
😂😂😂 I'm going to use that phrase forever
I'm a avid swimmer, doing 1/2 mile every day in a pool. I struggled to finish a 1 mile open water swim in 65 degree water, as hypothermia started to shut down my muscles after 30 minutes. There's no way an average person can swim 1 mile in 60 degree water.
Thanks for posting. I was wondering if swimmers would agree with me. Please keep training, and control the risk.
Not true. It’s possible with conditioning for the conditions. that’s a small exception. most people won’t survive very long.
There is the old rule of the 50s. A healthy male has a 50/50 chance of swimming 50 feet in 50º water. Most of our understanding of hyperthermia comes from the nazis experimenting on downed allied flyers , the hard way.
I totally agree. I got rescued after 1 hour in about 60 degree water. I was already on another planet
Felt warm and not a care in the world....absolutely gone..
@@johnshaw8327 = At least you could enjoy it. !
I had an older coworker who spent his life on the water from the time he was a toddler. Never wore a life jacket, so one solo fishing trip he went forward to set the anchor when he lost his balance and toppled overboard. His boat at the time had no boarding ladder and he discovered that his older self wasn’t that spry guy of his youth that could pull himself over the gunnel anymore. As he bobbed up and down treading water, he realized how badly he screwed up. Thankfully he was a problem solver and managed to walk up the anchor rode to put enough slack in it to throw it around a stern cleat and use it like a manrope to climb aboard. He now wears an inflatable vest whenever he is underway and puts a stern line overboard and moves a ladder close to the gunnel before moving forward to set the hook.
And notice that in this incident the vessel was AT ANCHOR. It wasn't disappearing over the horizon.
@@starfishsystems Good point. This reminds me of power boat captains who never wear their safety lanyard.
Like starfishsystems said, that was at anchor, not while underway. Anyway, my favorite part of the video was the old man demonstrating his tether method on the dock. Wow. If his vessel were underway - even in favorable conditions - he could easily drown. To be that old and that dumb is something you don't see every day, and now he's spreading his stupidity all over the world.
We used to do personal survival as teenagers. I used to have to swim 1/2 a mile in my clothes in a pool and I was a competition level swimmer and it nearly killed me.
@@ChrisinOSMS I’m between boats right now. But my next one will probably be a 44 feet or so centre cockpit yacht… under way the rule will be absolute no one leaves the cockpit without a lifejacket and being attacked to a lifeline.
I am an occupant psychologist and a big believer in systems.
Your friend’s experience is a perfect example of why safety systems exist. Yes you can go forward 1000 times and nothing happens… but one trip and it’s a different story. He was lucky he didn’t get knocked out on the way overboard.
I was lucky enough to survive and learn young the hard way. Five pints of Guinness no life jacket and a sailing dinghy blended with a summer squall. The tiller ripped out of the transom and the boat was immediately uncontrollable. It capsized and no I had not tied off the dagger board.
Someone happened to be walking on the beach and saw me. I had managed to wedge my hand in the centre board slot so I didn’t slip in when I lost consciousness. Did I mention my dog? No? He clawed his way to safety, thank god, up my back which looked like I had been given fifty lashes.
I was unconscious when rescue arrived and the hull was covered in my blood. You don’t need any safety equipment until you need it all. The only reason I survived was because the barmaid was worried that I was being stupid. She was so right.
Thanks for sharing. Our purpose for doing the sailors debrief is so others don’t make the mistakes we do. We appreciate you taking HHN the time out of your day to view and watch
Sounds like your dog was pulling double duty, teaching you a lasting lesson and saving himself.
@@mrpenn4613 thank goodness he was diligent in his duty. 🤣
Here's something a life-raft packer / inspector said on Tom Clunliffe's Yachts & Yarns channel, I'll try to quote. "It's not even about how good a swimmer you are. _If you get thrown into the English seas (English Channel, Irish Sea, North Sea, etc.) they're all very cold. You get submerged and your first instinct is to gasp in shock due to the cold, and then you're in real trouble._ And that's something to bear in mind worldwide. Safety equipment is not only there to help you out in the best-case scenario, it's also there for the worst case unexpected "unpredictable" scenarios. Use the right kit, all the time, every time - or else! Another thing eSysMan (the superyacht crew channel guy) says is he, and every colleague he knows, know of NOT ONE instance where the owner (and their family) has gone through emergency safety procedures. Every crew has (by law). But owners are "above" such things and captains - hired hands - never press them on it. The owner of the Bayesian died along with almost his entire family. Would emergency procedure protocol training have saved their lives? We don't know and likely will never know for certain, but what we DO know for certain is the training would only have increased their chances of survival, it wouldn't have diminished them one iota.
Best comment ever - thanks -
How very true.
Well we went on a DFDS vessel and I would think that few of the passengers had done any training either. Lets face it, these people are passengers on very large vessels who pay professional crew to keep them safe. It has brought home a point to me, that every time I do a safety briefing on our boat I must point out the location of the only hatches a human can get out of and ensure that my crew and passengers know how to open those hatches. Maybe some Emergency Exit signs are needed.
@@philgray3443 It's not a huge vessel, they would have known their ways out. UNLESS that vessel was in the dark and at 90 degrees in which case it becomes the maze from The Shining.
@@philgray3443make sure your signs are reflective at night. Check out our sailing at night video on the Tips and Tricks from the pros play list.
The best sailors make it back to shore alive, with their boat. Great introduction on what and how to accomplish this.
Absolutely!!!!! Thanks for commenting. Sail fast…
Lots of stupid sailors make it back, and the sea has claimed the lives of many experienced and wise and careful sailors. All we can do is try to stack the odds in our favour : training, equipment, sensibleness. Best odds are better than worst odds, but they're not guarantees only probabilities.
My favourite tongue-in-cheek saying for awhile now has been - “When your draft exceeds your depth, you are most assuredly aground....” It works in more than the literal sense too.
I’ve got near on 50 years both power and sail but the moment you think you know it all is the moment you create a massive blind spot for yourself.
Working as a transportation safety investigator I have heard all manner of inane statements about how prepared people thought they were...right up to the moment the universe smacked them down hard.
Can you be too safe? Possibly. You want to find that out definitely the same instant you realize you’ll never see your kids again? Sadly many have.
Thanks… I appreciate a pro comment like yourself.
The only way to be too safe is to never leave port. Otherwise, all safety precautions are good safety precautions. I never ceased to be amazed at how many boaters skip the most obvious safety precaution, a life vest!!!
I have fallen off at 6 knots fully clothed and managed to grab the webbing side handle on the inflatable that was being towed behind the yacht. I can tell you at the age of 25 being fit and strong there was no way I could maintain my grip as the drag through the water fully clothed was substantial. I was not tethered on. Fortunately for me the skipper brought the yacht round and got me. It was on an inland waterway in 15c temp. I learnt my lesson and was lucky. Now in my 60s and sailing mainly 2 handed our setup is as this gentleman states. Any other way I know I am toast if I end up overboard.
It’s real stories like this that need to be heard…. Thanks so much.
yeah a lot of people over estimate their own physical abilities and dont understand the forces they are up against
One year I was in the double handed Farallon island race. If i recall correctly 4 died; two of which alongside their boats. Dragged and drowned. Knowing what to do, how to rig and recover are crucial. .
Horrible event…. Thanks for watching
As a sailor of forty years; I completely agree that your tether should keep you 'on' the boat; Even if you're not solo, yachts are heavy, moving objects. Every now and then, you'll get a wave that unbalances you.
Thanks
We’ve dragged a line behind our catamaran while under sail, and you absolutely cannot pull yourself back onboard if the boat is going faster than 3 kts. It was quite an eye opening experience, and we were glad we practiced this in safe conditions and good weather so we really understood just how important it was.
We appreciate the comments and thanks for reinforcing this. It is great the see people practice the MOB drills. It is eye opening once you see how difficult it can be.
Happy to always listen to Christian Williams! So much more than sailing can be learned from Mr. Williams! Scray, serious stuff here your teaching, but good to keep people on their toes I guess.
So happy you are open to this. It means a lot.
Hooray! I still can't believe there are sailors who think they could swim to the back of a moving boat in a MOB situation using a lifeline. The best advice you gave was, stay and plan on staying on the boat in the first place. I have known sailors who have said they would rather drown then float off into the abyss, I have countered I would rather use a centerline safety line and snug it to always stay on top and have a lifejacket on. To drown within sight of land because you don't believe in the best practices, just crazy. Thank you! John
Thanks for the comment… very happy to hear from you.
Thanks for your support. I understand the thinking,,, but the facts dont support it. Growing up my dad reminded my that when we were slow and complaining, he would have us jump in and try to keep up. Our perspective immediately changed. But we did cool off.
@@ministryofsailing It is hard to deny facts, as a kid you question everything, not to mention you know everything..lol
My friend's dad did that to us too on Long Island Sound, we swan for about 3 minutes at our maximum endurance, and we had to be plucked out of the water.
I am not a a sailor never have been, except a U.S.NAVY sailor. The best take away for me is DO YOUR RESEARCH, DO YOUR RESEARCH! I'll watch more of these videos in the future, not that I'll be sailing anywhere but, it is so logical and I do watch lots of sailing videos, very informative!
“Do your research” means watching UA-cam videos lol
Thanks for replying. Please note that we point specifically to the OSRs. No?
As a young man, strong and fit I would clean my hull below the waterline pre-race day using ropes tied around the hull and free diving the yacht. My freeboard was about three foot, and I tried to get back on deck without using any aids, I couldn't do it. My advice would be that your jack line be as tight as possible and your tether has one end as short as practical. One size (length) does not suit all.
blue 3 nemo i have one and its cool as hell easy scuba diving in shallow waters it will get below your boat for sure.. yea cost a lot .. but its scuba diving gear ... life support for under water is not cheap..
@@tarpanc34 I was free diving the boat before mobile phones were invented.
@@johnhewett2525 1908?
Exactly. Jacklines are often run close to the toerail. In my mind they should run down the centreline of the boat and used with short tethers to keep you on deck.
very important message, thanks. Great venue you're at! As a former manager of a large charter fleet as well as many decades of sailing in cold water, dismastings and students/customers that later ended up in tragic situations, your messages rings true.
Thanks TallyHo… I was raised here in LG so it was great to be back. Send me an email and I will share our emergency action plan assessment of a local YC. A lot of lessons learned
There is some dangerous survivor bias in these videos. We are prone to think acts we got away with repeatedly are safe practices, when really we just got lucky.
Wow… it’s really interesting that you used the term “survivor bias”. The three tips we provided are based on that concept. We chose not to go into the details of “Survivor bias” but, tip number, do your own research.
Jumping off a skyscraper keeps you alive. Right up until you slam into the ground. Kind of like sailing without the correct safety procedures...
The best comment I've ever heard regarding safety equipment was regarding motorcycle helmets. A new motorcyclist was asking the grizzled old biker "Why should I spend $300 on this helmet when there's one here for $50?" The old biker replied "How much is your head worth?" Nuff said? The same goes for safety equipment in any undertaking. I've been involved in stock car racing at a national level for, I think, 24 years. I remember when the HANS device came out lots of guys didn't like them. I can tell you that it saved the life of the driver I work for at a 180 mph or so wreck at Talladega. Don't believe me? Look up Brad Smith Talladega Wreck" and see for your self. Eat a few more hot dogs if you have to instead of steak but buy good safety gear, your life may depend on it one day.
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My first experience in anything like offshore sailing/racing was in 1968. It was long distance coastal, rather than deep sea, in the Canadian/US Pacific Northwest. Much of the equipment and procedures we take for granted today were yet to be invented, or even thought of. The biggest difference between now and then was an attitude of safety, not equipment. We spent hours perfecting spinnaker handling and a few minutes discussing (not rehearsing) man overboard protocol. Looking back now is terrifying and we shouldn’t have been allowed to leave the dock, but we met the then current regulations. We all survived, but were never seriously tested. Keep spreading your message, it is important.
Thanks - we appreciate the Masters and what you have done. Your efforts of adventure and expedition provided a foundation for the followers. Our job is add controls - making it safe(r).
Mr "I never wear a life jacket" has never had the misfortune to experience falling half body into the water on a moving sailboat. During my first experience of using a trapeze on a Flying Ant as a teenager, I made the mistake of not bracing my forward leg and ended up over the side as we came over a wave. The skipper (also a teenager) froze up and didn't release the main sheet. Now I'm being dragged. It was nigh on impossible to get back into the boat while I was being practically keel hauled, and that's as a fit 16 year old. If that older man was solo sailing and fell out just that much over the side, he's being dragged over the horizon for as long as it takes for no one to come and rescue him. Just plain stupid
Thanks for sharing your experience. We really appreciate it. Thanks so much for watching our channel.
Great video. I remember another youtuber who said: "Real solo sailors dont use life vests. They just prolong the suffering."
Thanks.. I know that guy!!! The solo guy. Make sure you listen to the interview with Dee Caffari, she talks about it. I really messed up the video, but it’s a great one. I know you will like it.
I remember that guy. He got eaten by a shark at the end of the movie. He was right. The life jacket made no difference.
even with a PLB, in the mid pacific, no one could possible get to you in time. STAY ON THE BOAT!
9:38 @@ministryofsailingthak god I've NEVER come across those channels
@@connannbarbarin3033 I have met him too. 🤪
In 2003 I fell overboard while motoring in calm conditions... I was 4.2 nautical miles off shore... the water was 60 F... I did NOT have a life jacket on and I swam for 4 hours. I was super hyperthermic and should have died... when rescued some hours after I got to shore, the Coast Guard medic could not believe my body temperature was 31C or 87.8 F... the heart technically stops at 31... Ironically I had taken my Mustang survival suit off about 5 minutes before I fell overboard... no I wasn't taking a pee... I was folding a sheet from the bunk while leaning on the life line when the pelican clasp released... Since then I do not leave the dock without a proper PFD on... life lines are toward the middle of the boat and harness length will not allow me to go over... stay on board.
Thanks for sharing your experience. I am so happy you beat the statistics…
@@ministryofsailing ya me too... the saving grace was I am a cold water swimmer and I knew how to use my pants as a floatation device... used to be a life guard...
Well done you did a great job to stay alive!
Watch this… ua-cam.com/video/fLdw5NBOf6g/v-deo.htmlsi=h4qMdKP2D69CqxVS
@@ministryofsailing Wholly appreciate that ... I am in NO way advocating complacency! I was fortunate... I was used to 60 degree F water and I knew how to use my pants as a floatation device... without which I would have died for sure!!
Clearly, Christian’s first mate was being sarcastic about making the mile long swim.
And Christian's video's are about single handed sialing. Where all bets are off and if you go overboard you die. If you read his books you'll know those terms are acceptable to him.
Watch one of the best solo sailors episode 106.
I swim in my local bay at that temperature...without a wetsuit, 30 minutes is the most I can do before I'm too cold. (In fact I usually swim in a wetsuit because I can stay in longer and to avoid feeling like a block of ice at the end). Swimming is also very slow and if there's any tidal flow against you it likely exceeds your swimming speed.
Thanks for watching
Well Done. My only offshore sailing was on a 37' sailboat. No one went on deck without being on tether to the boat--no one. We had a safe & uneventful trip & I considered the purchase of my own safety equipment as "the price of admission" to that great experience. My work took me in another direction but, I'd go sailing with a good, safe sailor tomorrow if offered.
Where did you go to?
I totally agree on the view that a tether should be short enough to keep you on the boat. I recommend my students pass the tether around the Jackline and back onto the harness, making it half-length.
Please think about the release aspects when doing that. Doubles with a shorty… ?
Great message, John! Important we all think through these things and choose our safety gear wisely. Not a place to take shortcuts.
Absolutely! Thanks Astro Phil!!
A boat tether is to keep you from falling off the boat not keep you attached to it.
Bingo - thanks for watching
No. 2 should be,
One line on both the starboard and port side of the boat. Line must close to waterline.
Your life jacket is hooked to a 3-hooks lifeline. On deck you use the short one, and jack line is so high what you will always have you head above the water, even better: Your upper body is above the water..
If you go MOB, you are stuck on the side of the boat (with at least you head above the water). You then hook the 3rd hook to the line who goes along the side of the boat, and then cut the other one.
If the boat is moving you will be forced back to the bathing ladder where the starboard and port side lines ends.
We recommend clipping in so you stay on the Deck
You're absolutely right to emphasize that harnesses and tethers must be set up to keep your crew on deck.
Aboard BARBARIAN, we have rated D-rings mounted in the cockpit as well as taut jacklines running forward well toward the centerline of the boat. Someone who slips and falls cannot go overboard.
We carry inflatable PFDs with harnesses built in. They're comfortable and unobtrusive to wear, so we wear them. That means one less step to prepare when the weather turns foul or if someone needs to run forward. We just need to clip in, and that takes only a few seconds.
I will say that working on the foredeck with a tether can become a bit of a tangle if you don't take care to maintain the topology that you came forward with. It's embarrassing to clear a fouled genoa sheet only to end up fouling it and yourself with the tether. But that's all thr more reeason to gain practice under safe conditions, well before setting out into more chaotic weather.
Thanks Starfish - John Shaw’s Barbarian?
This is perfect timing to be reccomended. I actually just got an old Hunter 23 (my first sailboat) and was going to go out sailing to try it out at the end of the summer.
I had basically done exactly the same as the examples here, tied a long line to a life jacket on the assumption I would "pull myself up" with the swim ladder.
And the club where I got my ASA 101 certification didn't even have us in life jackets, so I assumed I was being extra safe for sailing in a bay.
Thanks so much for your comment. This is the exact reason we post these. Please share this with your ASA instructor
Ty good eye opener in just how sideways people with EXPERIENCE lead.
Thanks for the comment.
Excellent… and please note the last captain is hugely experienced and still unsafe. Thanks for posting this important safety message!
Thanks for watching
I suspect that at his age he doesn't really care about safety anymore. Shame he teaches that philosophy.
@@swooshdave He literally says that when he is solo sailing offshore he doesn't wear a vest because he is too far from any rescue vessels and would be dragged to his death if tethered while overboard. He spoke extensively about it on several of his videos that he wears one close to shore (his wife makes him do it). He also expressed the same at a coastguard surprise inspection.
@@swooshdave indeed Christian Williams wanted to emphasise, that a lifewest won't save a solo sailor. Indeed, for us single handers the step over board means certain death and no lifewest will rescue us. Therefore his emphasis on wearing a safetyharness is correct. But yes, his life line is too long and his idea of climbing back on board (especially at the age of 80) is an illusion. But: he sailed 3 times to Hawaii and back and is still alife. That's more than most of us ever did.
I agree with most of your points but take exception to the one on Christian Williams Sailing @5:25. He is a solo ocean sailor and for him, if he goes into the water while underway, I life jacket will make no difference and arguably would greatly decrease any possibility of pulling himself back on board. What he is showing with a harness and short tether is his only chance for self-rescue which is slim to none. Basically, he much stay on board or die, period.
When I solo sail in the inland Salish Sea [western WA and BC], I wear my inflatable offshore rated inflatable with harness and my Sospenders Double and use the 3' tether. The short tether to hopefully keep me on board and the quick release to not get dragged if I go over. I would then hope that another boater would see me although that is a faint hope. I really should get a PLB and attach it to my life jacket.
PLBs are game changers,,, so are Sat Coms… I do not think it’s unrealistic to say there is a better chance of survival, solo with the newer technology. You are 100 percent correct about that shorty tether as well.
I think the point is that Christian's tether should be shorter than what he is demonstrating. He should not be able to fall over the edge of the deck and through the lifelines. Christian has lots of interesting videos -- and is great storyteller -- but he is also a bit of a crotchety old man with odd opinions when it comes to sailing. For instance he thinks people who have dodgers are silly and amateurish (apparently he never sails upwind in heavy seas) and instead of a Bimini he puts up a patio umbrella for shade. He thinks that is better. I wonder how many of his umbrellas are at the bottom of the Santa Monica Bay?
Your comment about "It's meant to keep you on the deck" is one I've never heard before even on my RYA training courses, but males a lot of sense! So as my yacht doesn't have any reliable clip-on points, I will adjust the jacklines better to remove any slack. 😃
Thanks… appreciate that an RYA skipper is watching.
We called them “Jackstays” in the RN. Wonder why 🤔
Jack stays on the boat !
I have personally tested a challenge of pulling myself back on 22ft boat sailing, only 2 ft free board, at 2knts on a sunny summer day near Brooklyn. It was going 2 knts, because the was no wind, which means - no waves, no swell, no real life conditions - a bathtub like situation. My friend was driving the boat. Me - around 35 y.o, top physical shape, pfd on, 15 ft line off of the stern. With the line being as it normally is, the closer I was bringing myself, the more difficult it was getting, to the the point that I couldn't bring myself closer than 5 ft off the stern, as my hands were slipping on the rope. We've changed the test by tying knots every 2 feet or so. I was able to bring myself to the stern, grab the rail, but my muscles were too tired to climb back on board. My hands were too tired to hold on to that rail much longer. As a result of this test - I suggest that everyone exhausts all options to stay on the boat, before thinking of anything else. I have though, made a 15 ft rope ladder, with a knotted end just hanging off of the quarter within reach from the water, and normally use it for climbing on board after swimming, knowing that i will never used that option for any rescue nonsense. Good Seamanship - is a better choice.
I appreciate you watching the video. Furthermore, you took time out of your weekend (Labor Day weekend) to write this… thanks so much. I am glad you get the big picture.
I’m constantly surprised at how many sailing youtubers don’t take basic safety precautions. I wear an inflatable PFD with a whistle, strobe, and small floating VHF radio on me before i leave the breakwater. Next on the list is a PLB.
Watch out sailing at night series…
A Garmin InReach SOS beacon is always a good idea as well.
I'm really glad you're pointing this stuff out. I'm not a sailor and I'm seeing some really dangerous behavior by some of the folks on these channels. I've seen solo crossing open ocean swimming with sail up. Lack of any tie off in heavy weather. List goes on. Maintenance is often a huge issue, I can't believe some of the chopping and hacking people are doing on boats with no mind to structure or bulkheads. Keep it up and thanks for working to save lives.
Our goal is to point sailors to resources like Safety at Sea from either Cruising Club of America, TriSail Storm Club… and of course safer sailing.
Thank you for your definite statements.
Please let me add experience from a charter sailor's perspective, that is: You hardly manage to find or install enough hard points or jacklines on a charter yacht respectiuvely. To achieve the goal of staying on board, a sailor needs some extra rules, because he has to deal with compromises.
1. Find and define existing hard points and rails for suitability. A boat owner migth do this once and add extra points. No way on a charter yacht.
2. Practice, as you said, especially any elasticity of jacklines and find hardpoints, fulfilling the job of keeping your jackline in position thus you on board. Take your time to find out.
3. When sailing, take extra time when changing tether points. One single charter week or so never lets you get enough practice to do a change "automatically". You always have to use your cortex for a safe change.
Thanks for sharing your perspective. We hope you enjoyed the segment
I was a little sceptical of where this vlog was going, given its title as I do enjoy watching a number of sailing channels and find a lot of good advice and ideas. That said, as a professional sailor, I 100% agree with what this video says. I NEVER advise anyone not to wear a life jacket. I confess I do not always follow this advice for myself on my vessel but I would never advise people not to. Second, I would only ever use tethers and harnesses for purpose or what is the point? Finally, there are very well documented cases of people drowning as they have fallen overboard, despite being tethered in - largely due to incorrect use of the lines. They are intended to keep you on board and the chances of you being able to recover from being overboard when you are on your own from a vessel still moving through the water is virtually zero. Remember, your average offshore yacht is on autopilot while you are working on deck so don’t think the yacht will simply round up into the wind. The force of the water against you as you try to haul yourself aboard will make it almost impossible in anything but calm conditions.
Thanks so much for commenting and following our first trip being skeptical. As a pro would be great for you to reach out via email on our website. We are also pros. Be great to hear from you collaborate.
Excellent video! Sailing CAN be a very safe sport, but as the saying goes, ya got to know your limitations! Limits of weather, navigational hazards, equipment limits, and limits for the captain and crew inform what actions should be taken. Sometimes the best action is to stay in port! Hope you do a video in a similar vein as this one on DIY modifications. I've seen several sailing videos that have ill advised or even dangerous mods to production sailboats. Cutaway bulkheads, removal of (those pesky) interior parts (that are structural members). Cheers!
Thanks for the comments - appreciate educated boaters!!! Safety education never stops.
Useful and infomative tutorial on length of life line tether. Famous movie quote: "Never get out of the boat".
Thanks
Gatta say 'thanks' for the reality check. I've been begging my wife for years to someday get a sailboat and go somewhere. She always (and smartly) replied with 'not until you know what you're doing'. I guess its stuff like this that she was talking about.
I do plan to take some sailing classes eventually though
Take her with you… she will love it.
Thanks for this. I will be getting an actual harness instead of clipping to my near shore vest, and shortening the tether to keep me on deck. I have been single handing for years with nothing, then thought I was OK with the vest and a roofer's tether. Last time I sailed on Lake Geneva was at the Inland Lakes Yachting Association regatta back in the 60's.
We may have sailed that one together. Thanks for watching.
Spot on!
I’ve attempted to self rescue in a controlled test with the boat motoring 4 knots and me over the side with an approved Hydrostatic jacket/harness and tether. It is almost impossible just to keep your head above water. I couldn’t do it and I’m 40 and decently fit.
Setup jack lines, tethers and harnesses to keep you ON DECK. 👍
Thanks… people need to hear this…
There is a UK company which has adressed this to a degree, their lifejackets are designed to turn you so the tether tows you on your back, they're called Teamo the guy who set them up did so after someone drowned in circumstances similar to what you describe and he couldn't interest the larger manufacturers in his system.
respect for the sea includes an understanding that any sailor, seasoned or novice, cautious or foolhardy can die on the water. Everyone who ventures out has a right the chose the level and type of preparation they
bring with them. Our main concern should be that everyone is aware of the risks and of what constitutes minimum or higher levels of preparation, including training and practice. It's critical that captains take time to evaluate and communicate the risks and options to crew and guests prior to leaving the dock.
Thanks… appreciate the comments
I love Christian William's storytelling. However, you're right, he should be very careful about suggesting that anyone follow his practices.
He is a great story teller… have him call me..thanks for watching
@@ministryofsailing have him call me? Who do you think you are?
Just a sailor like you, I would love to talk to him. I wasn’t being sarcastic.
This is a great idea for a sailing channel. Risky and even crazy behaviors closely examined and commented on!🐬
Exactly!
I agree 100%. I never heard of any of these channels. All I can say is: Wow! Really?
I was absolutely stunned!! If want to be shocked, go read the comments from their followers!!! It is truly unfortunate that people agree. So many thank these folks.
@@ministryofsailing Christian Williams is an accomplished sailor with many years behind the mast. His sense of humor and wit was accentuating his exact message of staying on the boat
@@MultiBmorganit’s like he intentionally left that part out. Typical club racer mentality. “My way of sailing is the only way to do it, otherwise you’re unsafe!”
I though for sure my channel would be in this video! Im learning as Im going and posting ALL my mistakes..
Happy to help… glad you tuned in… keep it up and do your research. The information is out there, take a look at the OSRs and Safety at Sea from US Sailing, Cruising Yacht Club of America or TriSail Storm club
Mike, I totally clicked on this video expecting to see you too, 😂😂😂!!! I was surprised to see Christian Williams on here but I can see where this guy is coming from. Christian has been doing this so long he’s gotten complacent in his own ability. That’s fine for him I guess but for new sailors his advice is not exactly sound…
Ok.. I am subscribing to Mikes Channel now.
Mike send me a note..
@@southernpaths2986 what? staying on the boat?
Shocking the amount of folks I see who have no idea how to use a work position harness.
As for swimming, I got stranded on a reservoir while windsurfing a few years back - becalmed. Once I'd fought to get the rig out of the water and all trussed on deck, I swam sidestroke with one arm hooked over the nose of my board so all I had to do was kick. It took HOURS and I suffered severe cramp and made it more by luck than judgement.
I know I'd have failed to self rescue in any kind of current or swell.
Thanks for sharing…
Similar experience. Eye opener
Everyone should jump overboard with his safety gear on. Pick a nice day, at moderate speed, with help aboard. Then extrapolate to rough seas, a high speed racer, alone, and cold water. I guarantee you will make a "course correction" about your safety plans.
PS On ship safety drills, with 2 lookouts watching the overboard target from high above the water, on the bridge, we still sometimes lose a 3 foot cube, simulated man overboard... From a low deck, in rough water, with difficulty turning in the wind a loose man is most likely... gone !
You get the big picture.. thanks
Great, well reasoned advice. Anyone ignoring these things after seeing this video doesn't deserve a boat.
Thanks
20-30 years ago, we would never use life jackets until things started to get a bit “sporty”. Back then, your only option was the bulky, uncomfortable foam filled things. Now, with reasonably priced, self inflating jackets with an integrated harness that is so light and comfortable, there really is no excuse for not using one.
not appropriate offshore sailing, not rated.
Single handing is different.
You stay on or die.
Especially if you’re older. You’re not self recovering at anything over 3 knots if you’re an 80yo.
Thanks for viewing.
If you liked the old foam filled PFDs, you would love the older ones with hard blocks of cork sewed inside.
@@MultiBmorganthat’s just not true, most self (if not all) inflating life jackets comply with ISO 12402 for off shore use with a minimum of 150N buoyancy. 275N and above are only recommended if carrying heave equipment ie tools or weapons as it makes it more difficult to swim and enter a life raft from the water.
The ISO 12402 series for personal flotation devices (lifejackets and buoyancy aids) was prepared by the European Committee for Standardization (CEN) Technical Committee CEN/TC 162, Protective clothing including hand and arm protection and lifejackets, in collaboration with Technical Committee ISO/TC 188, Small craft, in accordance with the Agreement on technical cooperation between ISO and CEN (Vienna Agreement).
Thank you for this video. I can’t believe the things that I have seen boaters try to do on land let alone on the water.
Thank you for tuning in and watching it really appreciate it please share and like please let me know if you ever in an area of town or we go sailing together
Nicely done. I remember cringing when I saw Christian Williams' video. I guess experience does not always translate into wisdom.
Thanks for watching. We are going to do a special on single handed sailing, we think that today, more than ever PFDs are a good thing for single handed sailors… recoveries have been made from 800 miles away
@@ministryofsailing Looking forward to that episode! Such an easy choice to wear a PFD+PLB and use a short tether at night and/or when leaving the cockpit. So many popular UA-cam channels lack basic safety protocols.
I always wear an inflatable vest when on the water. I like the WW2 flight vest. It saved my life once on a lake. I would never be on a boat in the ocean without wearing one on deck when under way. That and on foggy days, the one piloting can see me in the vest better when I am on the deck working the sails. I could never understand making a tether that will let you fall off the boat. Especially if you were alone. It would turn you into a shark lure.
Thanks
Anyone that's been in the water with the boat on the mooring and tried to get back on board will know that you aren't going to be able to do it while the boat is moving. That's why there are boarding ladders.
Anyone that's waterskied or been on a towed tube behind a motorboat can tell you what it's like getting towed when you can easily let go of the tow line.
There is no substitute for being clipped in.
Good job.
Thanks
Keep doing "youtubers are trying to kill u vids" by far your most successful vid🍻🍻 us youtube sailors are rule breakers and people need to be warned!!😂😅
Thanks so much. We are going back and forth - we will find positive reinforcement as well. When you see it, send it to us… remember we are sharing the standards that we teach from the OSRs. And the skills from Safety at Sea courses we teach
Little things that no one really talks about. Appreciate it
Thanks
When the average boat is moving at hull speed, it takes 3 to 3.5 seconds to move one boat length. It does not matter if the boat is 15 feet or 80 feet.
Thanks - we appreciate the comment,
Not true. The hull speed increases with the square root of the boat length (waterline). At double length it takes 40% longer.
You’re on the right track in the sense that UA-cam algorithms highlight the young and beautiful instead of the most experienced and knowledgeable.
But Christian Williams is an experienced off shore single handed sailor, and at one time he was, like yourself, a club racer.
Club racing with full crew is fun, but it’s not offshore single handed sailing.
There is a legitimate argument for an offshore single hander to opt for a more comfortable (more often worn) tether and harness to stay on the boat instead of an inflatable that can hinder self recovery when inflated.
Additionally, you have to be honest about how you’d like to face eternity… if you do go over, do you want to bob around for a week while the sharks nibble and you grow weaker from dehydration?
The idea that only the approved offshore safety regs are appropriate is as flawed as the UA-cam algorithm picking beauty over seamanship.
Thanks for your comment. I absolutely am thrilled that there is a space on UA-cam for sailing discussions on safety… agree that the OSRs don’t fit everyone, but I haven’t found anything else to point too.
@@sailingnomad4963 what do you sail? What offshore races… we have space for you on the Hobart. Look up our Site
Mr Schaefer ? Thank you for your sincere concern about safety on board boats. I appreciate it.
Always
Thank you. Only can understand when you have been dragged. Impossible to even breath.
The 3rd guy seems to forget that it doesn’t matter how good of a swimmer you are, it’s not the skill or lack thereof that will kill you, it’s the panic that happens when you are unexpectedly thrown over, or when you get a gulp of water. It’s the panic that will kill you.
Case in point. Mt Trashmore in VA Beach (2008 ish). The little lake there is popular for RC boats as it is forbidden to swim or boat in the lake. So us RC guys get a free run without worrying about some jack wagon trying to swamp our little models. A guy I ran boats with many times didn’t bring his recovery boat when he was running a gas boat. Of course it ran out of fuel not at the launch, but pretty close to the launch. He decided to wade/swim out to the boat to recover it. As he was walking in waist deep water there was a ledge and he fell into 20’ deep water in one step. He inhaled some water and panicked. He was a skilled swimmer. He started to drown, another guy went in after him but the first guy was so panicked he was going to drown them both, so the second guy had to give up the rescue attempt. The first guy drowned, and his body wasn’t found for 2 days.
So very sorry that you had to experience this and thanks for sharing. I hope others may learn… nobody goes out to have a great day with the intentions to be drowned. I understand somethings happen, but awareness helps people understand how things that can cause harm occur, so they can identify the risk and protect themselves.
I find bungee cords make the best life lines, just make sure you use the ones that are coast guard certified.
I love the sarcasm. I get it!
While the carabiner s the couple were using doesnt look all that great as seen in the video, and the bowline is not great for that application for sure, I have personally used Marine rated tethers, that explicitly say not for arresting a fall, yeah wtf, where mountain climbing carabiner's I prefer to use, do not have that warning, and also self lock. They are designed to arrest a fall, and they actually look, function, weigh less and operate smoother than marine rated tethers I have, yes including the twin hook tether....and yes I am only crew, but carry my own tethers and pfd's because I don't trust shared equipment
Also that great double clip marine tether (yes the one you need to comply with offshore racing rules) , you so conveniently forget to mention also cant quick release under load either. yes it has a overload indicator, but that is purely there so the race scrutineer can see it has taken a load and make you replace it. If you think that tether can quick release under load , without any other ancillary equipment, then please demonstrate live how to do it, because I have that exact tether as well, and it will drag you along just as well as the tether the couple were using. Sure the PFD can have a quick release added, but the tether does not have it, and you so conveniently forget to trash it for dragging you.
And While I have had fights over the Jack stays positions on yachts, even the ones that do comply with offshore regulations will still have you overboard on even on a short regulation tether.
Definitely a bit of a click bait holier than though video . The offshore rules apply to racers for good reason, because they go looking for trouble at the max all the time, and are notorious for taking shortcuts for more speed, cruisers....not so much
Thanks for the well thought out comment. To date, there are two known cases where quick release systems let go prematurely. One was the Hook Race 2019, I was in that race. . And yes, not letting go has more cases. These were not conveniently left out. They are on the floor of the edit room. The Harness Release System (HRS) was specifically designed because of those issues. The system is not metal so there is less to maintain. Spinlock has worked very hard in consulting with many of the most advanced AC and Ocean Racers during development. One caveat to this video is that Mast Harness, with a Tylaska t12 is a really good solution. We address jack lines in the sailing at night series located in the Pro Tips Play list and the Sailing Rescue Swimmer Certification Play list. Thanks again for your comment. I will specifically create a video showing the danger of the most common snap shakel and its faults. Many forget to maintain them and they get dirty and rusty. Store them in the open position, and they will oxidize less in the critical areas. During Safety at Sea courses, in the “in the Water section” I specifically discuss this with each participant. Keep the rust off of that the shackles and maintain them. Another reason we the HRS. Exists. Send me an email. I love this discussion. If your around for Annapolis Boat show. We can film it together!
Oh I forgot… “be critical” be a skeptic, tip one!!!! Even on me. Sail safe you sound like you really push your team on safety, that’s really important.
Have a rope type ladder that can deployed from the water. SOLAS training will tell you that almost no regular human can swim 25YDS in the clothing that might be worn on board while at sea.
The solas and safety or sea training are critical for sailors. It really is a great way to differentiate theory from reality
Terrific video…. Totally Correct in every aspect. Maybe the next video can be about jack lines, safety harness and life vest stowage and deck drills on how to safely move about in all types of weather?
Check out our sailing at night video.
Great video calling out you tubers who do influence peoples opinions and sailing practice. This is a stop and think moment for a lot of viewers.
Well said!
A warm day in the sun and cold water, what could go wrong? Guess the guy never heard of cold shock.
Thanks for watching.. we appreciate the comments
1- Stay on the boat
2- have a drysuit in cold/rough weather
3- have a pilot automatic remote controler
4- have a mob device epirb/garmin inreach
What do you sail? Thanks for comments. Appreciate it when real sailors tune in. Thanks
@@ministryofsailing Mostly F18 Catamaran in long distance Raid , but i sail various sailing boat including Figaro 1, Lagoon catamaran and a good old Super Arlequin GTE.
@@ministryofsailing When you do F18 catamaran and use to capsize often in race pushing hard in 25+kn winds, you know how it's hard to swim with your cloth and how impossible it is to climb while dragged by the boat, including how fast you become tired and hypothermia.
lalaland
Mostly useless advice excluding the first about staying onboard and the EPIRB. An autopilot remote and a mobile device (most anyway) won’t survive immersion in water for long enough to function by the time you’ve got yourself in a position to use it. Too many sailors have an over dependence on electrical equipment for safety - once again EPIRB excepted. And a wetsuit is totally impractical for sailing clothing unless you’re sailing a small day boat. The only safe message is STAY ON THE BOAT. Unfortunately life’s not always safe and accidents can and will happen. Like the video states, planning and education can mitigate these somewhat. But, if you can’t accept that then don’t go sailing.
I honestly don't care when people do dangerous things that put them at risk. Where I draw the line is when they begin to advocate that others do dangerous things in an unsafe manner. The more trusted an authority figure, or the broader their audience, the more agitated I get. If you want to unalive yourself by being dumb then go for it, but don't trick others into doing it too.
In the case of the water, unsafe actions, even if you are solo, will place others in danger too. You may be solo, but the USCG or another agency will go look for you. No the issue has compounded.
Great video. I sometimes watch CW's episode but somehow I missed his opinion on life vests. He couldn't be more wrong. As I like to put it... It doesn't matter how well you swim. Or how hard you hold on. What matters is how hard the boom hit you over the head when it sent you overboard.
But I wonder if you can elaborate on the near shore vs offshore life vests. Falling overboard offshore, it seems to me that you either get rescued ASAP, or remain bobbing in the water for the rest of your life... A survival suit doesn't seem a feasible choice for most cruisers.
Near shore or Coastal… pretty much a name by west marine. They do not have a harness built in.
If you can afford a boat you can aford a decent lifejacket and a a decent tether. Very hard/virtually impossible to drag yourself back on the boat out of the water, plus a good chance that you'll be pulled into the water. 1 mile in 60 degree water would be difficult, potentially doable to save your life, with a suit on you'd be able to do it, without one much more difficult and certainly you're not going to be in great shape when you get there and unless its a beach/easy climb out of the water you probably won't be able to get out of the water. I wouldn't recomend it, a life jacket serves the ability to keep you on the surface and enables you to concentrate on keeping your bodily warmth around you.
If you’re getting a boat, with a loan, include all the safety equipment in the package.
Your last example was Christian Williams who was a crew member on Ted Turners winning boat in 1979 Fastnet race, He did emphasize One Hand for the boat.
Christian has a sense of humor, one hand for the boat, one for you and harnessed and clipped in at all times is what I heard and saw. Do not discount Mr.WIlliams.
Yes,,, he did emphasize that. But for kids… it’s the law!!!
@@ministryofsailingYes, yes, I AM THE LAAAAW!
We get it. If you actually watch any of Christians videos, you'll see a really short tether on at all times. With kids, I musta agree, kids are dumb. They need safety vests.
If you fall into the water tethered that way you would drown, you would be dragged after the boat face down and you would drown! The clip/tether should be on your _back_ never in front on your chest. NOT. EVER. IF you have it on your back you will be dragged after the boat on your _back_ instead and with your face facing upward.
Correct.
Thanks for commenting
Anything can go wrong will go wrong when sailing a sailboat absolutely and hence the draw for some as absolutely is an incredible challenge. Had a boom miss my head my miliseconds and less than milimeters on a calm day out having fun on a lake😊
Thanks for watching
Yeeeeah but I’m still going to watch Mr Williams’ channel religiously. While I appreciate what you have shown here, and you are accurate I might add, I have also gained an incredible amount of knowledge from his channel. It’s very enjoyable as well. I actually had watched the video you pulled the clip from and back then I said I’m not going to do that. That said it’s every sailors responsibility to be his or her own safety enforcement. Common sense is a big part of anything you do on the water and you can not take anything for granted. So of course you should always wear a vest. For me it’s all the time not just underway or when on deck. For someone else it may only be when under way and on deck. I wear mine always because if I’m below deck and something goes wrong I don’t want to waste precious time looking for and putting on my vest. Some may think this is overkill. Perhaps. However, I’d rather be too safe than not safe enough. I also carry two life boats and extra beacons. But that’s just me. I think you would be better served explaining what was wrong, which you did, AND contacting those creators and giving them an opportunity to correct and clarify their positions. This is just my opinion. It cost you what you paid for it.
Thanks for taking the time to write that note. Each of the creators were contacted. None responded. We field questions as we train from people who are using techniques demonstrated by those videos.. remember that thing called COVid when everyone bought a boat, but no one could train them because of social distancing? These are the videos people watched for training.
@@ministryofsailing Jim has stepped back from sailing and making videos, I'm not suprised you didn't get a response. I also disagree with his use of an inshore life jacket with a line tied through it, I can't defend it. But his other videos have been a wealth of information to many sailors, particularly in the C22 community. He got this one wrong, but he's gotten a lot right and a lot of C22 owners have learned a lot from him - before, during, and after COVID.
"I'm sure I could do it" 😳😳😳😳....never tried because why would I 🤦♂️😳😂
Thanks for your comment. Please spread the safety words- share
Thank you man!! Really usefull video, straight to the point, i only hope now the algoritm shows it to their audience.
I really appreciate it
This will also sound like a commercial plug - and it is in a way but because I believe the product has a point - I'd recomend having a look at team-o's life jackets, they are designed so if you do end up in the water attached by a tether it will turn you round and tow you on your back, rather than face first which has drowned people.
Team O (zero) have the dorsal release which is great- but not USCG. The only vest that comes complete, straps, spray hoods, lights and whistles (all OSRs) is Spinlock, US and UK versions!
Please check the title on the thumbnail before posting...
Fixed it.
another way to view experience is that it provides greater opportunities for certain sailors to reinforce their bad habits.
I love this because I often tell people who sell Bigfoot and I ask them the question have you ever had an issue and most certainly always reply now. Then the next question is do you think that’s going to predict the future? You’re really drive down the point thank you so much for watching.
Wow. That’s wild. Christian has written books for years on sailing too.
My first tip is to do your research and understand the standards… thanks for watching and taking the time to comment.
To be fair, #2 I do t think he was saying he’d catch the transom on his way past but that he wanted enough line that he wouldn’t e getting dragged alongside the boat in the wake where there isn’t a ladder. At least if you’re behind the boat you can use the line to pull yourself back up to the transom ladder.
I’m am curious though, how are those differently shaped carribeaners any easier to release? I could see their shape making it easier to clip them on, but they don’t seem any easier to release.
First it’s a double action, the latest and given the angle, they rotate easily. But the greatest is a harness release system or HRS advancements. Made of synthetic material, less maintenance of metals and the impact of a water environment.
My friends son swam 11.8 miles from Fremantle to Rottnest Island. Very quickly. He is a superb athlete and highly trained ultra marathon swimmer. The rest of you are not. Thanks for an excellent video. We follow a simple rule. Life jackets are not negotiable. Like seat belts in cars, they save lives. Month after month we have young guys fishing on our Moreton Bay who go overboard and are never seen again. Their lifejackets are usually neatly stowed on board. The reason they are never seen again is probably down to our very healthy shark population.
Thanks for watching - We see a lot of well intended, but mis guided advice. Many of the issues are that sailors have not kept up with the latest advice or regulations. Searching the internet, it’s hard to find. It seems as if the OSRs may be the only ones @worldsailing. As a Pro sailors with many former military - we find it important to build awareness around the OSRs - not our opinions.
Third example: I believe life jackets are required for kids, or you can be fined by the coast guard. Heck, people put life jackets on their dogs.
Yep
The first mistake all three of these sailors made is forgetting Safety Is No Accident and all three disregarded it. You want the best equipment that you can buy because you cannot buy back your life once lost. As for swimming 1 mile in 60 degree water in less than an hour, good luck. It's best not to find yourself in that position.
Thanks for sharing. Where do you sail.
ua-cam.com/video/fLdw5NBOf6g/v-deo.htmlsi=h4qMdKP2D69CqxVS
Great video, Schafer!
Thanks!!!
Thanks!
The last guy has done about 5 singlehanded transpacific crossings that I know of. That is how singlehanded sailors rig at sea. Myself included. I also have a climbers web ladder with a quick clip to help get me out of the water. He knows his stuff. A life preserver 800 miles from shore just prolongs the inevitable if you singlehand. Goes with the territory. Average sailor with others on board; always wear one anytime on deck.
Watch the episode with Dee Caffari - not all single handed do that.
Thanks for watching -
Lucky people doing it wrong are not to be emulated.
If I'm single handing on a long voyage, I have an offshore rated, harness capable PFD on at all times I'm not down below. I clip in short, and walk with a double, remaining clipped in 100% of the time, AND I have Jack lines I lead a third clipped, body tied long line into.
I'm able to easily handle sails, and I can focus on handling since I know I'm clipped in and can't fall off the boat. If my harness fails, I'm long lined into the boat which gives me a small chance at self rescue, since the long line has loops tied into it at 2 foot intervals.
That's it. And yes, if I'm running at 5 knots on glass, I still do this.
@@timothyblazer1749 please , what life vest do you own?
Just to mention there was a US Marine who fell off the back of an aircraft carrier in the middle of the Indian Ocean, he kept himself alive and afloat (tied the ends of his trousers) for 36 hours, the fleet eventually found that he was missing but couldn't find him (even with an aircraft carriers resources and knowing where they'd been). He managed to attract the attention of a fishing boat that picked him up. Seriously lucky and obviously the water wasn't that cold but it shows that there's always a chance.....
At 5 knots most people don't have the strength to pull themselves through the water back to a moving boat.
Lanyard attached to lifeline ? Buwahaha
Sailing all my life. I only have a small boat as per my budget. Bit I don't care if I am on a 23' or 83' boat I tell green passengers (emphatically) ' The lifelines are all but useless ! They are just a reference point. You can run your hand along them moving fore or aft as a balance reference point. Never expect them to take any serious load, so don't put any faith in them"
This may sound pessimistic ?
I have been sailing, rock climbing and yacht and stage hand rigging for well over 40 years.
The difference between a static load and a dynamic load is Extreme !
I would put $100.00 down to say the 99% of contemporary production boat's lifelines will not hold up to a 160 / 180lb body being thrown at them from 5' - 6' away !
The guy that suggests using a long tether (to reach the back of the boat) and attached to the lifelines? Sounds simple ?
That is a total prescription for failure !
The dynamic or shock load (at just 3kts) would most likely just rip a stanchion out of the deck and possible snap an older wire lifeline. Now you are overboard, trailing behind contact with the boat and in a serious 'entrapment' scenario due to the lifeline(s) new slack.
I don't mean to be mean but that suggestion (long lanyard on lifelines) is so ignorant !
I would equate it with dropping a 160 / 180 pound sack of potatoes 10' vertically and fall arrest being a 'toy biner' attached to a lever that is secured only at its base.
That sack of spuds is going blow that shit up !
We appreciate you so much… some of f the comments we have received are from what I would call close minded people. The ones that say we have always do it that way. Closed to the fact they have always done it wrong.
great video
Glad you enjoyed it
Excelente vídeo!
Eu servi na Marinha do Brasil
A quantidade de acidentes que acontecem, ano a ano, por conta de não levarem a sério medidas de segurança, é absurda, no meio naval, militar ou civil.
prego
Properly cared for flat webbing breaks at over 5000 pounds. That’s one huge safety factor. I agree stay in the boat. And in my experience. It was very rare to see a ship
Correct… appreciate the comment
@@ministryofsailingf And I'm correct about the unavailability of a proper offshore life vest as well. you should really keep your finger pointing (see above video) toward yourself. You are not the patron saint of sailing! I could easily watch a full on safety video by you, but that's not what you provided. You provided discourse of which we already have far too much of. Go race your sailboat haha. And me back my"thanks for watching" nullifier
Hi, and thanks. Different discipline, but same problem, I have been a firearms instructor, and a chief range safety officer for over 35 years, and I cannot tell you how many times people have come in to shoot, and have to rent a firearm from the range, and you ask about previous experience, and they say, well I watched a YOUTube video first so I know what I am doing. Since they have no experience of their own, they have no idea if the utube presenter actually knows what they're talking about, and they usually don't. Be very careful about the expert's hands that you are putting your, and your loved ones lives into.
Thanks for sharing aspects that relate from another discipline
I appreciate this video, thanks for the valuable information
You are welcome. Sail safe
As a youngster in greece working on a little boat with 14 passengers,on the return me and captain win many bears by playing the game,throw a rope net off and none of these fit youngsters could make it back to the boat ,at low speeds ,,,,
Thanks for sharing
I don't watch too many sailing channels, but what happened to seamanship and common sense? Not to speak of respect for the unpredictability of being at sea?
However, great video!
I appreciate it. We work hard to spread the safety message.