You may be able to tell that I held myself back a bit on this one. I'm trying to be less negative and a bit more objective when it comes to just getting the repair done and stating the facts without getting emotional. I dropped about 20 min of ranty footage to achieve that on this one. HAHA!
I like how all these youtube amp techs all crap on 40 year old amps. Let me know how many of today's amps will be around in 40-50 years. Most of them seem to be throw aways. Also, other amp techs I've watched seem to hate Fenders and Marshalls as well, so what's a good amp then? Peaveys used to be, not anymore. My Mesa Mark III red stripe is still chugging along wonderfully. Beautiful slightly dirty cleans with a bit of bite, sweet singing Santana like leads and all the way up to mosh metal sounds can be had. Very versatile with little to be desired.
These videos about Mesas are ruining my dreams and saving me a lot of money at the same time 😊. Thanks Brad, Lyle and another Brad for showing how crappy these amps are. I mean, I still love how they sound, but there are safer options like neural models (99.9% accurate and absolutely for free) or even pedals.
Trouble with these things is that they do what they do really well, if Mesa is your bag, and unfortunately for me they are. So I'll just grit my teeth and soldier on with the Lonestar Special dreading the day when something goes awry in its innards ...... :D - great vid Brad!
Back in early 2018, I bought a mint .22+ (non graph EQ) for a great deal, owned it about a year and 1/2, gigged it a handful of times. I really babied it during ownership and it treated me fantastic while I had it. One of the best-sounding small combos I've ever heard. Still regret selling it!
I used to love Boogie's. And thankfully when I bought 1 it's a S O B. Inside 1 board, only 7 pots none pull style. My tech worked on Boogie's warranty work on the east coast of Fla. He told me many horrible stories of other repairs and the stupid stuff Mesa did to amps. He even said Mesa messed up mine early on. Fixed it right for only $200. But his talking and examples made me rethink what I thought about R Smith and his company.
Incredible. Carbon compresistors for the screens, mounted right on tge board inatead of being elevated, and with traces running underneath them. That's a fire just waiting to happen!
I have a Mesa Fillmore 25 head. I bought it before I started building and modding and watching these videos. The board is terrifying to look at. It has so many components on it and resistors under caps and probably 20 or 30 relays. I wouldn't have bought it knowing what I know now but i can't sell it either because it sounds so damn good. It does fender sounds better than most modern fenders that I've tried. I just hope it never breaks.
My group experienced zero troubles with Mesa gear since it`s introduction. It did cost $ 1000 CAN to recently re-tube a Strategy 500 but that is the cost of doing business. How many cars have you been through since `86? What did that cost and how many miles did you go? These amps are consumer grade not military. Life expectancy, 10-20yrs.
Brad, your videos are getting better. A measured and informative response to a typical POS Boogie design which deserves more swearing than people want to hear. I just finished an Engl Fireball, same components-under-board design, no component labeling, schematic differs from board and to ice the cake, all wire to pcb connection wires had to be extended for a powered up fault find. German engineering...... at least the newer models have improved.
I feel ya, Brad. I worked on a 50 watt version of these. Thankfully the board wasn’t upside down on that. My favorite part is the stupid reverb circuit. It howls when turned up and Mesa’s actual user manual says this is normal and to just turn down the reverb. The even crazier thing is they cheaped out on the phase inverter tail circuit and used the power supply to provide the negative voltage just to save 40 cents on a few resistors. The downside is that you can’t adjust if need be to tweak performance. God help you if the power supply traces become compromised.
Just watched a documentary on the first undersea telephone cable from North America to France and beyond. They had to place a repeater (amplifier) every 38 miles in the cable for 5000 miles. The amplifier was the same diameter of the cable and like 4-5 feet long. Tubes were used as transistors were too new to trust. The incredible part is the valves were placed end to end in a plastic tube before being sealed inside the cable. Can you imagine working on an amp with 20 or 30 tubes wired end to end? Was this the secret origin story for Mesa?
I actually did cut a bunch of traces in a Messy Bugger Studio 22 and ran telco wire leads to the output tube sockets and rewired the EL84 sockets for 6973s. Time will tell. That put me so far behind schedule I was placing radial Japanese made 22uF shunt caps in a Fender, looked up and it was 2:20 AM. I put Stecks axials in then tested these oddball radials and a Q of 28!!! The Steck caps had Qs of around 7 or 8. I did sort of melt the PVC on the preamp anode wire. I failed to salvage all the carbon comps and that lead on the multi-section can cap had that tiny modern carbon comp resistor's lead so it heated kinda fast on me. I snaked it out along with the PI anode feed, and put new Gavitt wire in, then realized some schmo had already nicked a 2 or 3 other wires with the hot pencil barrel. BY 3:00AM my back was screaming, go get a chair or go lie down you stupid dumbass! I was doing my final cleaning up of the flux by then.
The subjective part is just that . My problem is with the build quality and parts run to close to it limits . Leo Fender knew that these amp will need to be work on so be kind to the tech so they can charge less because it would take less time to do .I do like inductors for tone controls . Brad did point the big thing about using inductors keep them away from magnetic noise sources . Lay out matters. My take on board stuffing put the passive parts on the bottom away from the tubes better thermals and the testing can be done with out puling the board . Service can still require pulling the board but then you know what is wrong before spending the time pulling the board. Prefer metal standoffs like computer mother boards use .
I love my Mesas but videos like this are why they're all getting sold in the next few months. A Diezel VH-4 seems like it can bring the versatility and modern high gain of a Recto or Mark (with its own sound, obviously) but with actual build quality. Maybe one day I'll build my own Mark IIC+ from scratch with components that are actually suited to task (and the tone stack placed in the circuit where it can actually work)
Here we go haha.... That amp looks familiar, If it is my dads one, i made that speaker panel and covered it in the rattan, he had a mark 3 back in the day with that and a clear coated timber cab i believe. Anyways that amps been through 2 other techs about 5 times from memory and the issue was never resolved, it would do it again everytime it came back. I believe my dad dropped it out of the back of the ute at some stage too and that didnt fix the problem either 😂 Cant wait to see what you find.
Hi Brad - I loved your video of a few years back where you renovated another 22+ & mounted a turret on the board because of fried traces. Mine is still stock - and I actually like the clean tone it provides ( its not really a 2-channel and swapping via the footswitch is unworkable for me ). Definitely not a tech friendly amp. I've got the schematics and a description looking from the 'soldler' side - let me know if you want me to send a copy. Ian.
They're getting worse with every generation as they try to jam more features into an already too small package, unfortunately. They will never change their philosophy, so don't expect the builds to improve any time soon.
Brad, check out Vintage Guitar Amp Repairs & online Guitar Teacher. He just dissected a Marshall TL 1000 that someone butchered. Had 14 filter capacitors. I think someone was trying to create a Mesa out of a Marshall?! BTW he is a fair hand at playing as well, very good classical technique too. Worth a butchers!
Yet guitar mags still hand Mesa awards like theyre the ducks guts (advertising $?)... Mate had the MkV.. it did hi gain good, but so did near every amp...at less cost. Better you than me mate!👍
As a kid I though MB was cool. There's one on the back cover of an echo and the bunnymen LP. But wait, no, I now realise that are awful, and call them 'Massive Bogies'
What brand of amp do you think is consistently high quality build and components? Thinking of offloading my Boogie for something better. Something low wattage, tube and mostly clean sounds.?
@@BradsGuitarGarage None of that stuff required (I have pedals, can go straight into the front). Any format; budget could stretch to almost anything for the best. Jazz fusion mostly.
You may be able to tell that I held myself back a bit on this one.
I'm trying to be less negative and a bit more objective when it comes to just getting the repair done and stating the facts without getting emotional.
I dropped about 20 min of ranty footage to achieve that on this one. HAHA!
Maybe release the full footage in twenty years as a ‘directors cut’.
Hahaha
I like how all these youtube amp techs all crap on 40 year old amps. Let me know how many of today's amps will be around in 40-50 years. Most of them seem to be throw aways. Also, other amp techs I've watched seem to hate Fenders and Marshalls as well, so what's a good amp then? Peaveys used to be, not anymore.
My Mesa Mark III red stripe is still chugging along wonderfully. Beautiful slightly dirty cleans with a bit of bite, sweet singing Santana like leads and all the way up to mosh metal sounds can be had. Very versatile with little to be desired.
i used to want one of those, until i saw this vid. thanks brad, saved me the trouble.
These videos about Mesas are ruining my dreams and saving me a lot of money at the same time 😊. Thanks Brad, Lyle and another Brad for showing how crappy these amps are. I mean, I still love how they sound, but there are safer options like neural models (99.9% accurate and absolutely for free) or even pedals.
Better ruined dreams than nightmares.
Trouble with these things is that they do what they do really well, if Mesa is your bag, and unfortunately for me they are. So I'll just grit my teeth and soldier on with the Lonestar Special dreading the day when something goes awry in its innards ...... :D - great vid Brad!
My condolences. I too have had some Messy Boogers wiped on my bench on occasion.
Greetings from Messa's home town, Petaluma CA!
Back in early 2018, I bought a mint .22+ (non graph EQ) for a great deal, owned it about a year and 1/2, gigged it a handful of times. I really babied it during ownership and it treated me fantastic while I had it. One of the best-sounding small combos I've ever heard. Still regret selling it!
I used to love Boogie's. And thankfully when I bought 1 it's a S O B. Inside 1 board, only 7 pots none pull style. My tech worked on Boogie's warranty work on the east coast of Fla. He told me many horrible stories of other repairs and the stupid stuff Mesa did to amps. He even said Mesa messed up mine early on. Fixed it right for only $200. But his talking and examples made me rethink what I thought about R Smith and his company.
Mesa in Portguese means table. That is what those are. Expensive future coffe tables.
Incredible. Carbon compresistors for the screens, mounted right on tge board inatead of being elevated, and with traces running underneath them. That's a fire just waiting to happen!
I have a Mesa Fillmore 25 head. I bought it before I started building and modding and watching these videos. The board is terrifying to look at. It has so many components on it and resistors under caps and probably 20 or 30 relays. I wouldn't have bought it knowing what I know now but i can't sell it either because it sounds so damn good. It does fender sounds better than most modern fenders that I've tried. I just hope it never breaks.
My group experienced zero troubles with Mesa gear since it`s introduction. It did cost $ 1000 CAN to recently re-tube a Strategy 500 but that is the cost of doing business. How many cars have you been through since `86? What did that cost and how many miles did you go? These amps are consumer grade not military. Life expectancy, 10-20yrs.
Brad, your videos are getting better. A measured and informative response to a typical POS Boogie design which deserves more swearing than people want to hear. I just finished an Engl Fireball, same components-under-board design, no component labeling, schematic differs from board and to ice the cake, all wire to pcb connection wires had to be extended for a powered up fault find. German engineering...... at least the newer models have improved.
I think when I retire, if I decide to do amp work, I'm going to hang up a sign that says, "NO MESAS!"
You and me both Wes!
No mesas - no service!
2:43
"Rubbing of the Nipples" ! 😉
Bloody Mesa Boogies... 🤬
What the Hell ?
Cheers ✌️ 🤙 🇨🇦
Dude. That was WAY more than 30 seconds…
I feel ya, Brad. I worked on a 50 watt version of these. Thankfully the board wasn’t upside down on that. My favorite part is the stupid reverb circuit. It howls when turned up and Mesa’s actual user manual says this is normal and to just turn down the reverb. The even crazier thing is they cheaped out on the phase inverter tail circuit and used the power supply to provide the negative voltage just to save 40 cents on a few resistors. The downside is that you can’t adjust if need be to tweak performance. God help you if the power supply traces become compromised.
Should do a review of some otheres. I was going to buy one but think ive changed my mine now
Old Marshalls. The way to go.
Just watched a documentary on the first undersea telephone cable from North America to France and beyond. They had to place a repeater (amplifier) every 38 miles in the cable for 5000 miles. The amplifier was the same diameter of the cable and like 4-5 feet long. Tubes were used as transistors were too new to trust. The incredible part is the valves were placed end to end in a plastic tube before being sealed inside the cable. Can you imagine working on an amp with 20 or 30 tubes wired end to end? Was this the secret origin story for Mesa?
I actually did cut a bunch of traces in a Messy Bugger Studio 22 and ran telco wire leads to the output tube sockets and rewired the EL84 sockets for 6973s. Time will tell. That put me so far behind schedule I was placing radial Japanese made 22uF shunt caps in a Fender, looked up and it was 2:20 AM. I put Stecks axials in then tested these oddball radials and a Q of 28!!! The Steck caps had Qs of around 7 or 8. I did sort of melt the PVC on the preamp anode wire. I failed to salvage all the carbon comps and that lead on the multi-section can cap had that tiny modern carbon comp resistor's lead so it heated kinda fast on me. I snaked it out along with the PI anode feed, and put new Gavitt wire in, then realized some schmo had already nicked a 2 or 3 other wires with the hot pencil barrel. BY 3:00AM my back was screaming, go get a chair or go lie down you stupid dumbass! I was doing my final cleaning up of the flux by then.
Did they really put a steel nut on a nylon bolt? That's crazy. I use nylon bolts in my RC warship models but only with nylon nuts!
The subjective part is just that . My problem is with the build quality and parts run to close to it limits . Leo Fender knew that these amp will need to be work on so be kind to the tech so they can charge less because it would take less time to do .I do like inductors for tone controls . Brad did point the big thing about using inductors keep them away from magnetic noise sources . Lay out matters. My take on board stuffing put the passive parts on the bottom away from the tubes better thermals and the testing can be done with out puling the board . Service can still require pulling the board but then you know what is wrong before spending the time pulling the board. Prefer metal standoffs like computer mother boards use .
I love my Mesas but videos like this are why they're all getting sold in the next few months. A Diezel VH-4 seems like it can bring the versatility and modern high gain of a Recto or Mark (with its own sound, obviously) but with actual build quality. Maybe one day I'll build my own Mark IIC+ from scratch with components that are actually suited to task (and the tone stack placed in the circuit where it can actually work)
Here we go haha....
That amp looks familiar,
If it is my dads one, i made that speaker panel and covered it in the rattan,
he had a mark 3 back in the day with that and a clear coated timber cab i believe.
Anyways that amps been through 2 other techs about 5 times from memory and the issue was never resolved, it would do it again everytime it came back.
I believe my dad dropped it out of the back of the ute at some stage too and that didnt fix the problem either 😂
Cant wait to see what you find.
Love playing my Mesa. Do not love working on my Mesa. Cannot afford to have somebody else work on my Mesa.
Hi Brad - I loved your video of a few years back where you renovated another 22+ & mounted a turret on the board because of fried traces. Mine is still stock - and I actually like the clean tone it provides ( its not really a 2-channel and swapping via the footswitch is unworkable for me ). Definitely not a tech friendly amp. I've got the schematics and a description looking from the 'soldler' side - let me know if you want me to send a copy. Ian.
what do you think about mark VII build quality, have you seen ones circuit? Any improvements there from Mesa or everything the same?
They're getting worse with every generation as they try to jam more features into an already too small package, unfortunately. They will never change their philosophy, so don't expect the builds to improve any time soon.
One of my regrets was buying a Trem-o-verb cuz it came up at a good price. So clunky to operate, and I feel guilt about taking it to the tech.
Lyle's attack on the same amp. He even said "schmoo". I think I had an influence on him that day. LOL!
ua-cam.com/video/ubsYsadkeHo/v-deo.html
Brad, check out Vintage Guitar Amp Repairs & online Guitar Teacher. He just dissected a Marshall TL 1000 that someone butchered. Had 14 filter capacitors. I think someone was trying to create a Mesa out of a Marshall?! BTW he is a fair hand at playing as well, very good classical technique too. Worth a butchers!
Not another Messy Booger.
Dont skimp on the swearing, it helps
If i ever buy another Mesa, it will be Mark IIc+/Studio preamp era, fully restored and removed of stupid.
these are so incredibly janky, bravo to their marketing department for making so many people think they’re high quality amps.
Yet guitar mags still hand Mesa awards like theyre the ducks guts (advertising $?)...
Mate had the MkV.. it did hi gain good, but so did near every amp...at less cost.
Better you than me mate!👍
As a kid I though MB was cool. There's one on the back cover of an echo and the bunnymen LP. But wait, no, I now realise that are awful, and call them 'Massive Bogies'
We've all been there, mate.
It's the whole reason I got into amp building and repairs.
I know several other techs with similar stories.
Mega Booger lol these things are truly evil
Another nightmare from Mesa.
Messy booger
Horrible PCB layout and tantalum capacitors are just pure evil. The Mesa designs are horrible and they are a catastrophic failure waiting to happen.
That looks awful
What brand of amp do you think is consistently high quality build and components? Thinking of offloading my Boogie for something better. Something low wattage, tube and mostly clean sounds.?
Budget? Amp format? FX loop / reverb / trem required? Music styles?
@@BradsGuitarGarage None of that stuff required (I have pedals, can go straight into the front). Any format; budget could stretch to almost anything for the best. Jazz fusion mostly.