"Jinnah Did Not Just Want Partition, He Wanted to Dismember India" | Karan Thapar
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- Опубліковано 28 вер 2024
- In a 45-minute interview to Karan Thapar for The Wire, Prof. Ishtiaq Ahmed, Professor Emeritus of Political Science at Stockholm University and a former visiting Professor at Government College, Lahore as well as the Lahore University of Management Sciences and a regular columnist for Pakistan’s Friday Times, provides a wealth of evidence for debunking the bargaining chip theory, first popularized by Ayesha Jalal and thereafter accepted by many others. Prof. Ahmed cites several occasions when Jinnah specifically denied the Lahore Resolution was a bargaining chip. He says: “Jinnah never, even once, showed any interest in a united India and in a power-sharing deal with hindus and muslims as equal nations sharing power at the Centre. Jalal omits all those speeches, statements and messages where ad infinitum he reiterates that the Lahore Resolution means the division of India into Hindustan and Pakistan.”
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I have heard Professor Ishtiaq Ahmed for the first time and am happy that his views are similar as mine. Thanks God we have a great man like him among us. God give him long and healthy life!
ua-cam.com/video/6IdFG-KKayE/v-deo.html
What an absolutely erudite old man. So genuine. I am going to order and read all his books.
True.. I just ordered from Amazon.
why say "old"?
“Cambridge PhD considered a divine intervention and everyone must bow down to it”. Absolutely nailed it Ishtiaq sir - the intellectuals in India are no different 🤣🤣🤣
Would love to know if Hindi has a word for 'intellectual'.
@@alimoosavi2935 the divines are names thapar..
Divine Revelation not divine intervention though both mean more or less the same. Judaism, Christianity and Islam are supposed to be based on divine revelations from God to his Prophets.
@@alimoosavi2935 Puncture nikal Abdool
@@alimoosavi2935 google bhai knows all
LMAO...@ 6:00 , "He said there is a colonial mentality that pervades in our intellectual circle " . It would be like a dagger to Thapar's heart
And that's the truth ☺️😊🤭😅
His face showed his discomfort when the professor said that. LOL
Those who have been arguing that Pakistan was created to be a secular state were not on a strong wicket. It is no bravery to refute them.
Pakistan was created for the previliged rich landlords who had served British interests. They colluded with the Army and hard-line clerics to form what is known as the deep state.
What about Calcutta Direct Action of 1946 that killed thousands of innocent Hindus.
@@hardayaldawra1458 It was as wrong as hundreds of riots inflicted on Muslims by Hindus.
@@hardayaldawra1458 What about it?
Prof. Ahmed is a blessing for truth seekers. He is so articulate, confident and humble. The world needs more academicians and researchers like him. Kudos to The Wire.
He is a real secular.
Very happy to see Dr Ishtiaq Ahmed gaining more mainstream recognition in Indian media, kudos to The Wire!!
Finally wire is fairly looking at the history. Unlike Arfa khanum sherwani. She must be tutored to stop her lopsided views.
It is sad that a shallow historian is getting currency in India.
@@ppg1970IMMOLS Arfa is shallow. Sadly so is Professor Ishtiaq Ahmad.
@@Dendronish why Arfa is shallow can u elaborate? Just because she represents only one community.like many mainstream media houses doing the same bias news.i know she is being bias bt her act is demand of today's time.
@@ppg1970IMMOLS That Khangress supporting Thapar is doing this it absolves his favourites Nehru, Congi that BJP uses to criticize congress that it's cause of partition.
Karan must be stunned with this. How did this got published in wire 🤣
Karan realized his job is going to over with BJP winning elections. this is his way of begging BJP to let him survive. You see Karan does not want to go to pakistan to support muslims, he made his money bashing hindus. Now that is at risk so he is switching sides to protect his rear. He also knows hindus will forgive him whereas muslims will convert or kill him.
I don't think any godi media would go unbiased ever until the opposition comes in power... And then they will get advertisement from them so they will always be remain godi
Exactly.....how! Wire!!😂
This is a slap on Karan thapar thinking.
He is trying to exonerate Nehru
AT 7:50 see how cleverly Karan Thapar intervenes when ishtiaq starts to say some words that shows Nehru in a negative shade ... THIS IS NOT JOURNALISM ..
Karan why didn’t u allow him to complete his sentence when he was saying that congress only later agreed to ensure that majority Sikh/Hindu parts of Punjab and Bengal should remain in India. Shows how much u are scared when anti congress statements/facts come out.
Karan is a certified protector of Congress. While he shuts down Prof Ahmed the moment he mentions allegations against Nehru, he himself talks about BJP leaders Jaswant Singh and Lal Krishna Advani. Karan is shameless and doesn't even pretend to be an unbiased journalist.
True bro
Karan is mentally ill sir
KaranT is Incorrigible Congress Lackey of highest pedigree
Because he is congress bootlicker's. do not want o harm his roji roti.
16:59 "Lets not get lost in details" - Karan Thapar during an academic discussion.
Such gems of brilliance never ceases to amaze me.😄
Exactly: I was eagerly waiting to hear what the professor had to say when Karan interrupted him. I really don't like the way he interrupts his guests. I have previously commented here and asked him to watch Larry King's (legend, best interviewer ever) old interviews on youtube.
he has always been a loser n coward....
Yes, the man is too stupid to understand that the substance is in the detail ... How Prof. Ahmed put up with this illiterate is beyond me ...just goes to show that even Cambridge produced a lot of dross ... Hawking happens once in a lifetime
Thankyou for this discussion.I have almost finished reading Prof.Ishtiaq's richly resourced book.It is eye- opening in the true sense, having read and listened to 'officially certified truth' all my life in Pakistan.My complements sir.
Most of his points are wrong. So you need to open your eyes once more
@@kehkashanshabeer7026 how can you say that did you read his book
Dr Ahmed should be given a Padma Vibhushan for debunking the myth of Jinnah being secular and saying that Pakistan was a disaster right from the beginning.
LOL. Agreed. I wonder what Advani was smoking when he described Jinnah as secular.
@@patmclaughlin107 extremely bad quality ganja loll
He does not know enough about our history. He does not know about the Indian National Army and the Naval Mutiny of 1946. He never read the book by NS Sarila that the British decided in 1934 to divide India. Ahmed think the partition was a sudden decision of the British.
The day he given an Indian award,he will be killed in pak by terrorists,and pak as usual will say this done by so called namaloom afraad.
Liked Prof Istiaq Hussain's talk always, though karan didn't let him speak on a wider issue and it was reduced to Jinnah's failures or short sightedness. No mention of wider gameplay of the time and way forward.
Ishtiaq Ahmed, Tariq Mehmood Sahib, do get hold of my Jinnah book for the gameplay. You can't expect an interview of 45 minutes to cover all aspects taken up in a study. It is an unreasonable demand, if I may say. The book is there for you to find all the background and gameplay you want to know about.
@@Billumian47 I would read the book, thanks for the reply. I have a great respect for your insightful and passionate partition history telling. Division of Punjab/bengal/hindustan left a great scar on our collective psyche. I can't cope with the fact (though not born then) that people driven out of their homes (where they lived for centuries) for religious identity, and there were murderers, rapists living with impunity and no punishment whatsoever. Partition lead to violence and sowed the seeds of permanent enmity between India Pakistan.. with survivors swaying their sides to hate..a great tragedy.
Prof. Istiaq Ahmed is a political scientist with all evidence about the subcontinent. He doesn't take anything personal. Wish we had more people like him. So nice to have him to tell us the truth. Late but better than never. We were taught all false history.
@@TariqMehmood-nz6jp Sahib we then have a lot in common.
@@mondsouza8601 I do not know how he is as a political scientist but he is certainly a failed wanna be historian.
38:53 the main issue
39:08 Karan tries to keep Arfa didi happy
Forget Jinnah. It was Sir Syed who first propounded the two nation theory. Much before the birth of Savarkar or Hindu mahasabha. Muslims have got two nations carved out of Indian subcontinent and have toe hold on another.
What have Hindus ,the original inhabitants of the land ,got?
Exactly.
We got sickularism
Jinnah wanted balkanisation and dismemberment of India at any cost while Nehru wanted a strong United India with a strong centre.
It's absolutely preposterous to think Jinnah didn't want partition of India.
I agree with you on that but atleast his prediction was right and he saved a significant muslim population from the tyranny of the administration in India now. More than ever Jinnah is being revered in Pakistan now and people are now grateful for what he did
@@immammuddin5019 you are judgin history on hindsight brother. What is happening India Today doesn't justify what happened in 1947.
If partition was not done then the chances of a communal Hindu or Muslim government being elected in the centre was very less likely.
The government would have been Secular because there would be no other choice.
@@Raj0520 Yes, I agree with you. If Jinnah didn't propel the movement of separate Pakistan, we would have all been one. I feel there would have been peace and brotherhood among hindus and Muslims all over United India. We could have achieved a lot more, would have become a superpower in the world if we were United. He wanted to divide so that he could rule. He didn't think how painful the partition was for both hindus and Muslims. He was a selfish person. If I get a chance to go back to history, I would have loved to delete jinnah from history.
@@20tazeen That's why you won't get the chance:)
@@Raj0520 lol. You living in LaLa land or what? The Indian right wing didn't form after 1947 it was there all along and had a great amount of power after 1925. They went in hibernation for a couple of years after Gandhi's assassination. But they were ruling the roost all along. There were many right wing people among freedom fighters as well.
Amazing intellectual , rock solid explanation by Dr Ahmed...hats off
All pseudo secular should listen to this interview.
Amazing insight by Prof. Ishtiaq Ahmed. Every person of the subcontinent should read his books to get a glimpse of partition history. Prayers to all those who went through the agony of partition.
We as common men was mislead by certain people. This also nails, BJP's claim that Nehru agreed for partition for his own personal gains.
partition happen coz congress dont want to give rights to muslms
BJP WAS RIGHT ON HISTORY OF INDIA.. IT NEEDS TO BE CHANGED
I am not sure BJP said it was for personal gains of Nehru. They were against partition. Both are 2 different things.
I have always found the facts put forward by Dr Professor Ishtiaq Ahmed Sir as true and authentic. Aisa Jalal logic seems unconvincing and unfounded.
Thanks to Dr Professor Ishtiaq Ahmed Sir and you, Karan Thapar Sir for bringing such a nice and informative interview. Wish you all the best.
I find Aisa Jalal quite suspect and agree with Dr Ishtiaq Ahmed that Jalal that she became adapt at writing "history" sans facts!
This is a poorly done interview by Karan. He hardly allows Mr. Istiaq Ahmed to speak. He asks long-winded questions, takes several minutes, and then allows only a few seconds to answer them.
Please pay attention to this point and adopt a more balanced approach in future interviews.
well that's inevitable if his time is limited and his topic coverage is large - and the topic he covers here is Professor Ahmed's OWN book!
Isnt that that obvious Karan Only let Buffon intellectuals like Arundhati Roy speaks for more than 10 minute for short question .
This is a pattern with Karan. He brings on interesting personalities, but I CAN'T stand him. He never knows when to shut up and repeats himself so much. I don't understand why these interviews have to be so short too. It's not cable TV, it's UA-cam. Just take as much time as needed to dive deep into the subjects.
Thapar is too full of him self
Well, that is one constant in all of his interviews.
Bringing in eminent people, and then not allowing them to speak freely, is what he is.
A great disappointment.
This is a great show to learn about partition of India n Pakistan .
Because of Mr.Karan thaper and Dr.ishtiag ahemad interviews.
Thank you very much for the information.🙏
Jinnah messed up by trying to be cunning and greedy, encouraging Hindu Princes to join him and also Dalit Hindu leaders like Jogindernath Mandal of Bengal. Instead if he had been an honest and straightforward person and gone along with Dr.Ambedkar, the father of Indian constitution who wanted total population exchange between the two countries, it would have been a blessing for both the countries instead of the curse that half-hearted partition on religious lines has turned out to be.In the future if a major civil war is to be averted, population exchange between india and Pak/Bangla seems the only permanent solution. Secularism is a failed policy globally as US experience in Iran, Iraq, Pakistan, Afghanistan, Syria, Lebanon, Libya etc.has shown even after spending trillions of dollars and waging many wars. India also cannot be stopped from becoming a Hindu nation as secular leaders like Nehru have lost all credibility and respect in India.Jinnah was right about the two religions, culture and civilisations to be incompatible but trying to be crooked instead of having an honest land partition as per the population cost his country as well as India heavily because Karmic law is unavoidable and one has to pay for one's misdeeds or even tolerating someone's misdeeds..
Nehru did the same with Sikhs
@@ajeebdastan1152 True.He called them the sword arm of India and touched their emotions instead of telling Lord Mountbatten that Sikhs had a Big empire from which the British too over and so they deserved to have atleast a small state with Lahore as their capital and all lands around it where the 9 out of 10 Gurus were born. A Sikh buffer state with Lahore as it's capital would have been an ideal situation and it would have cooperated very well with India for the benefit of both.
She has a Unique gift of writing history without fact
-dr ishtiaq Ahmed
Fantastic interview. I am pleasantly surprised by Karan Thapar's preparation as well
Also , There Was no word " Pakistan " in Lahore resolution .
Decent , interesting debate based on facts and arguments.
Some Muslims always quote the Jinnah speech given on August 14,1947, proving that he was a secular and wanted a secular country. This claim is utterly false and not true. He gave this speech after killing and deporting all the non-Muslims from West Pakistan, and when there were no non-Muslims left, he had the audacity to tell people that they were free to worship anyone. It is just like Hitler giving a speech after killing and deporting all the Jews from Germany that now the Jews are free to worship their religion.
The most commonly used slogan by the Muslim League was " Pakistan Ka Matlab Kya- La illaha ill Allah " which translates to "what is meaning of Pakistan- that only Allah will be worshipped". This slogan clearly shows that there will no room for any other religion other than Islam in Pakistan.
There is no such thing called secularism in Islam. There are only two isms in Islam, and those are Islamism and fundamentalism. There are no rights for non-muslims, and they have to live as 3rd class citizens, also known within Islam as Dhimmis. Non-Muslims are forced to worship their religion only in the privacy of their homes, their culture and customs are suppressed and they are always in danger of facing public humiliations and discrimination. Their daughters are frequently kidnapped, converted, and married off with Muslims. This is the life non-Muslims are facing in Jinnah's Pakistan.
People who say that Jinnah is secular must have taken drugs.
Unfortunately forced migration was started from East Punjab which was planned by Master Tara Singh and Maharaja Patiala to create a Sikh rule in East Punjab state.In west Punjab violence and forced migration was in a reaction of East Punjab killings. The Hindu and Sikhs were migrated about 6 .million whereas Muslims came from India about 10 million.Life losses of Muslims was more than 5 times than Hindu and Sikhs whereas financial losses of Hindu and Sikhs was more than 4 times as compared to Muslim immigrants from East Punjab.
This ill made thought has been killing Pak everyday, and will be in dust in coming time. This is ultimate truth . A vision with Adharma has Vinash one day.. Obmama has killed so many and more to come in coming by fighting each other.
Eloquently put but without much substance. In any ideologically driven state the priority will be given to the dominant ideology and there will be little room given for any competing ideologies. You cant expect equal rights or state backing for spreading communism in a western liberal ideological driven state and no you can expect equal rights for a liberal democrat in a communist state. Even within the so called liberal western democracies there is compulsion to "assimilate"for any ethnic minority . This nothing but a mild and respectful term used for forced conversion in to the ideology of the state. Banning Hijabs and banning the building of mosques and minarets in todays western Europe are examples of this phenomenon. In India for instance Muslims are today forced to abandon eating beef and they are even lynched for doing so. A Dhimmi however is a protected citizen of the Muslim country. He is free to practice his own believes and retain cultural values. However as in all other scenarios the Dhimmis believes and customs will not receive any state patronage. They dont need to worship in the privacy of their homes. They are free to have their own place of worship. This is why there are numerous historic places of worships in the Muslim countries today some of which have been the seat of the caliphates such as Damascus, Baghdad, Istanbul and Cairo
No body is killed for eating beef in India, don't spread lies.
What a very brave man this Prof is! Salut!
Ironically ,Jinnah’s ancestors were Khoja Hindus from Kutch in Gujarat…….
Wonderful and revealing interview 👍👌👏
I would have liked him to complete his statements.
just search ishtiaq Ahmed video 👍🏾
Ok, so the Indians say it was Jinnah who wanted this, while Pakistanis say it was Nehru. In reality, it was the British who wanted to create an open wound that would be difficult to heal so both sides would continue to be at loggerheads. The British were successful and continue to be.
No my dear lady. Muslims simply wanted security in independent India and Gandhi and Nehru listened but did not agree.
Indian Mom. If India wanted this then India would have ensured that all Muslims were sent to Pakistan. And please for Gods sake listen carefully to what these learned gentlemen are saying.
In reality it was the people who killed for it. Books can lie, but not massacres.
@@mewtubeofficial people are killers everywhere. This is is why it is important to let wounds heal and build bridges.
@@homeschoolindianmom People are not killers anywhere. There is indoctrination and family beliefs behind it and it's still going on. It's not important to heal wounds and build any bridges, because demographic change is an irreversible loss. Instead, it's important to stop religious indoctrination in school and political indoctrination in college and make preventive laws. What you are suggesting is more hospital beds, what I a suggesting is vaccine. None of us are wrong. But only one is long term solution,
Excellent discussion and the facts exposed by Ishtiaq Sir are very imp and people should know the horrors of partition 🫡🫡🫡🫡🫡🫡
He is a weak and shallow historian.
@@Dendronish says a random troll on youtube
@@jaintango Na. I am a well motivated troll. Happy?
Who created horror? Who initiated, based on mythology a zone cannot remain unchanged.
There are two questions for you, Professor Ishtiaq from my side: Had the Congress agreed to Jinnah's Fourteen Points on the future Constitution of India, would he had agreed to a united India? My second question is that some people are of the opinion that movement for Pakistan was nothing but a movement for maximum provincial autonomy. What do you that had the Congress not insisted for India on a federal structure with strong centre as was the case with Nehru Report, would there had been no need for the demand for a separate land for the Muslims of India
Rashid Ahmad Khan former Professor of Political Science, University of the Punjab, Lahore
He just talked about it, right? Congress’ stand had no bearing on Jinnah’s position on dividing India and creating a separate country for Muslims.
Please read the Jinnah book. I cannot go around answering questions which need detailed information and analysis which are presented in 808 pages.
@@Billumian47 Professor, I shared the video with my friends. Needless to say, as an Indian, my blood pressure went up by a few notches as I watched the video. Clearly India was taken for a ride by the wily Jinnah. Great work. Thank you.
Dr. Ishtiaq is/was/will be an exception, Jinnah (A hidden Atheist who used to eat pork, drank alcohol and he never knew how to pray in a mosque, never kept Roza, he did not know wtf is Urdu etc. etc.), you had one painting of Jinnah in Karachi House with alcohol which was removed to propagate lies of Muslim Pakistan. Only thing Pakistanis (most of them, not all) good is at lying about history. "If you kill history, History will kill you". Jinnah just used muslim woo-woo of Ummah Utopia propaganda (As Muslims live in eternal fear of mythical hell curtesy to their mullahs). He became leader of Muslims with British help who were interested in using muslims to fight against Russian and wanted to have a buffer state. Pakistan was used against Russians till 1990, once your usefulness is over , Western block throw Pakistan in dust.
India would‘ve become what Pakistan has become today, with the states having more power than the centre. No thank you. Whatever has happened has happened for good. You should’ve stood on your word and left India completely but those who voted for a separate country, 2/3rds of them stayed back in India.Only 1/3rd of those Muslims ended up moving to Pakistan. If it was so difficult to stay with Hindus, why did so many of them stay back?
6:25 😂😂 mr ahmed were talking about thapar gang
Karan, can you please give details of this book and where is it available for purchase ?
Enjoyed the truthful, honest interview!
Great story teller from South Asia.
Fiction.
Aagaya Pakistani🤡
One of the rare interviews of Karan where he was quite composed and conducted the interview an a very good manner. A new perspective
Prof Ishtiaq Ahmed is a very truth speaker 🙏🙏
How many know that parents of Jinnah were of Hindu faith . They changed their faith to Islam so their children also did , Jinnah was teenager when change of faith happened. Why Jinnah born as Hindu wanted to dismember India ?
Great interview sir as always, thank you LORD KARAN THAPAR!
I beg to differ with Dr. Ahmed, who is reading the speeches of Jinnah technically but not in substance. If he was using the idea of Pakistan as a bargaining chip, why would he announce that Pakistan is just a bargaining chip? That would immediately devalue his bargaining chip and nobody would take him and Pakistan seriously. Jinnah's prime concern was the fact on the ground that the economies of the Muslim majority areas, were almost entirely in the hands of Hindus and Sikhs, while Muslims were poor and did menial work. The financial status of Muslims in the Muslim minority areas was far better than the Muslims in the Muslim majority areas of Punjab, Bengal, Sindh, Baluchistan, and northwest Frontier Province. Jinnah's mind was preoccupied with a solution where the downtrodden Muslims in the Muslim majority areas would prosper and develop their own economies. The litmus test of this mindset of Jinnah was his acceptance of the Cabinet Mission Plan in May 1946, thereby withdrawing the demand for Pakistan. Cabinet Mission plan gave substantial independence to the 2 Muslim Majority areas within one India. Of course, he used the idea of Pakistan as a big bargaining chip very effectively in his negotiations with Indian National Congress and the British. Initially, all parties agreed on the terms of 2 semi-independent Muslim majority regions within one India, but Nehru backed out from the Cabinet mission plan leaving Jinnah with no other option but reassert the demand of Pakistan and finally get it. In view of this, I fully agree with Ayesha Jalal's assertion that Jinnah was willing to give up the idea of Pakistan if he got sufficient guarantees for the Muslims of Muslim majority areas, but this was torpedoed by Nehru. This point of view is fully supported by Rajmohan Gandhi, H.M. Seervai, Jaswant Singh and Abul Kalam's "India wins freedom's 30 pages published 30 years after his death".
What a bizzare argument. Look the Jinnah book is available in both India and Pakistan and if you are serious to find out why such a point is indefensible then read how he was delivered an ultimatum by the Cabinet Missionl Plan and had not choice but to accept the CMP or leave India to Congress. Do spend some money and then make up your mind.
Excellent explanation, intelligent gentleman
Explanation might be good but intelligent he is not. He is shallow as well as deluded.
A wonderful interview . Detailed surgical analysis of the facts
resulting in the creation of Pakistan .Deep insight into
the personality of Mr.Jinnah.
Dr. Istiaq Ahmed 🙏🙏, 🙏 , truly emphatic & illustrative vision, , Passage to History of Pakistan
It's a pleasure to listen to Prof. Ishtiaq Ahmed,he is so impartial.
At 17.00 Thapar deliberately cuts short the professor in the midst of his sentence about Congress picking up the idea of retention of hindu and sikh majority areas in Punjabmuch after Sardar Sunder Singh Majithia strongly advocated this. Is it a sort of unwarranted deliberate intervention when the Congress came out ina bad light? The professor ought to have been permitted to complete on this aspect...
why people are fighting over past it does not change the present today, mold your present time for your future to be prosperous
Those who don't learn from Past often Repeat them
Let's do your operation and remove all your memory of the past....... Agree?
Charming ambitious leader who says different things to different people , pretends to be secular in the west and gives fiery religious speech domestically, erodes the constitution and gives himself special powers.... Maybe there is a lesson in history, for those who are paying attention.
Who is fighting dude? A simple interview to discuss past and present seem like fight to you?
They are fighting. They are having intellectual talks about history. History help us to make correct decision in future. Pakistan is nothing but the fraud with India united muslims and geographical loss of india
Professor Ishtiaq Ahmad got the things for a reason.
Salute to Prof Ahmad for bringing many suppressed facts meticulously to the fore n set in right perspective ...
No gainsaying the fact, the Highly acclaimed European universities do hv a bias towards erstwhile colonies n that clearly get reflected in their narratives ...
Though I don’t agree with Pakistani ideology, but Ishtiaq saab, is pragmatic and rational. A true Punjabi ✌️ spirit from both sides of border. Good work Mr Thapar!!
You can disagree with Dr Ishtiaq Ahmad Sahab too.
Yes Karan, you said that many Indian hearts would be gladdened and many Pakistani minds infuriated. May I add that many Indian minds will be filled with apprehensions too as the coming of Pakistan in this rendering seems quite like what is shaping up in India today. Thanks anyway.
Pakistani happiness inex is higher than us. The don't get infuriated, in fact we are always on the boil.
IQBAL MASUD KHAN we are happy for them to be happier than us. Anything else
@@iqbalmasudkhan5505 Happiness index??? ha ha ha ha .....study carried out & perpetuated by vested western interests.
@@adityabose26 Brother, we can't deny that Indians are a frustrated lot. Hindus want Hindu Rashtra. Minorities want secular India. Who is happy at the end of the day? The entire country is burning. Let's face it!
@@iqbalmasudkhan5505 So you mean to say they are all happy with skyrocketing food and petrol prices, economy in the dumps, no stability or consistency in governance, begging around for paltry sums of 1-2 billion, being routinely labelled as a state sponsor of terrorism, passport power just above afghanistan and syria etc etc. If that's the case, it's a very long list to be happy about. Btw, if you are happy with those too you should migrate there. We dont need people who live and eat here but look out for another country...
I agree with Prof ishtiaq 100%
These guys want to keep the wounds alive !What purpose does it serve ?Whatever little they do that will foster piece and presence of tranquility , they will be remembered
If Kerala and tamilnadu were majority Muslims just imagine the consequence.
@@Jagan-lp8gu umm what?
@@adwaitab.3622 It would not have been a part of india...
The founding father of Pakistan hated Hindus so much that he wanted to break India. Whereas India's founding fathers wanted a secular India and where committed to it. Jinnah a cunning fox wore the mask of secular leader just to ensure that India does not push all the Muslims from India to Pakistan. Lesson to learn from history is India can never trust any of Pakistani leaders.
These guys want to keep the wounds alive hmmmm
Why produce a film like Kashmir files
Please upload with hindi subtitles....
Dr Ahmed will get a lot of hate from his country for sure. His view's on what Jinnah wanted is getting fulfilled by the hyper-nationalists in India.
He is still living happily in pakistan for years
He has been saying this for many years. Pakistan is completely addicted to myths of Islamic supremacy and Hindu habits of perfidy and cowardice to be swayed by things like facts and evidence.
@@rashidaquil5284 no, he live in Sweden. He is a Swedish national.
Dr Ishtiaq Ahmad is shallow, dimwit and deluded. If that is taken as hatred then so be it. For the record I am not a Pakistani.
As far i know he is living in Sweeden
That was a very interesting interview. . Thank you Karan..
Ayesha Jalal is trying to differentiate Jinnah's thought process and Jinnah actions(talks,speech, dialogue).....
Jinnah suffered with megalomania. He lacked commonsense because he accepted a portion of India as Pakistan which was 1000 kms away. Moulana Abul kalam Azad had predicted that Pakistan will split in 25 years and his prophecy came true in 1971 i,e in 24.5 years it broke and Bangladesh was formed. I belong to South India and my forefathers had outrightly rejected the two nation theory of Jinnah. Incidentally Ishtiaq Ahmed looks confused in his mediocrity argument because any Muslim leader would like to imitate prophet Mohammed than with worldly mortals like Akhbar or Babar. Fortunately with a democratic setup in India the muslims of our country are more educated in some states and financial better off than the people of Pakistan. The division of India had left deep cancerous wound which refuses to heal and has given an edge to the fascist of our country.
If we were fascists, youd be living in central asia rn.
@@mananmody9355 Smashing the head of 3 year child , murdering men and raping women. In Rajasthan a dalit student was beaten to death for drinking water . I am referring to those who commit such crimes and they are surely are fascist.
@@s.v.hussain435 so basically would you call Shahrukh Hussain who burnt alive Ankita Tiwari a fascist?
Fully agree with Karan “ there will be many in India whose heart will be Gladden “ 🥰
Mr. Thapar ,the book on Jinnah by Ishtiaq Ahmed is a Tome .Did you read it completely before conducting this interview …..
Truths never never prevail inside Pakistani boundary....
Professor Ishtiaq nailed it. History is a witness to Ishtiaq's contemporary analysis.
Jinnah never refused entry to anyone in the subcontinent, whatsoever was their religion, caste or creed.
Wow what a revelation!
Karan - its not about many being happy in India, its about analysing historical facts and seeing them with the right lens.
Dr Ishtiaq lacks depth and he has missed too many nuances.
@@Dendronish such as? Please elaborate
@@situcftri He himself doesn't know, simple posts a comment.
@@situcftri Let me try. Indian Muslims and Hindus were struggling for freedom of India. In this process Muslims became aware of the fact that in independent India things will be decided by popular vote. Since Muslim were a minority even in undivided India their voice will get cancelled in the democratic process. Muslims wanted assurance on the point. Congress did not provide any assurance. In desperation Jinnah negotiated for separation of Muslim majority areas. These are Pakistan and Bangladesh today. In the process leading to the partition of India at independence Jinnah tried utmost to avoid partition. This is what Ayesha Jalal is saying. The idiot, that Professor Ishtiaq Ahmad is, is not getting that point.
@@unison2679 Please read my reply to situcftri and let me know of your views.
This book cost Rs 1400/- having readable 800 pages, around 1200 references, and notes.. This gigantic book weighs 1.5 kgs....
No Karan people in Pakistan are not INFURIATED. We accept disagreements and debate on our past (I A Quraishi is a widely read author in Pakistan). You see why? Because we don't want to idolize our heroes. Jinnah was a human being, we succeeded in achieving what he achieved only because of his strong mindedness.
This is good for us then
Ishtiaq sahab, small correction. Jodhpur was thinking about joining Pakistan. They were given a blank cheque. Bikaner was not thinking about it, Bikaner got the offer but they rejected it soundly and actually Bikaner was one of the first princely states to accede to India even before 15 August 1947. Jodhpur on the other hand, waited till the last moment to make their decision.
Why Jodhpur didn't join Pakistan?
@@dramjad1712 Because they realised in the end that their population would kill them for such a decision, especially because they were lovers of India. Also Patel worked hard to convince them not to do it.
@@dramjad1712 the king put all his riches , wives, children and pets in a plane sent from Pakistan and escaped to Pakistan. His successors still live on in Pakistan.
This interview revealed a lot of new facts... thank you Dr. Ahmed..
Please be careful while taking anything from him.
Good discussion
Pandit Nehru ne kaha tha ki jo Frontier States Hain kahate Hindustan ke musalmanon ne Pakistan banane mein code mein khad ka kam kiya tha yah pandit Jawaharlal Nehru ke statement
Mr jinnah not only broken united India but he worked for disintegration of India as vilen did . His role was not limited to vilen but threw the whole Muslims in medieval ideology defeating the progressive thoughts of modern nations. Moreover his Direct action day and mass killings destroyed the humanity, civilization, hatred of Hindu and Muslims deeply rooted. So his efforts are not in positive direction. Now Pakistan is reality but wrong thoughts can't be appreciated
Sirs,it will be extreme to say that Mr Jinnah wanted to dismember india in 1947. Yes, he wanted more land than what he ended up with, like all of punjab and bengal,j&k,and hyderabad and princely states under muslim Nawabs. Except for punjab
bengal, j&k his aspirations were reasonable.
This is my dream come true, Mr ishtiaq Sir on The Wire with Karan Sir.....I seriously thank The Wire for this
The only episode were wire didn't do their usual propaganda 😅😅😅😅
@@tarapappa1594 I agree 👍
Jinnah called himself as a Democratic personality but he showed as a radical Islamist..
Those crooks in India who hail Jinnah as a secular hero and blame the British for partition should reexamine their wilful views. The view of these crooks is motivated by by the desire to exonerate Jinnah and Muslims for partition and blame the British and obliquely Hindus for partition.
Second, the Indian Independence Act clearly say that two countries are to be created: one for Muslims and other for Hindus. And the Muslims were expected to go to Pakistan because it was the real agreement that India is for Hindus and Pakistan is for Muslims. Hindus in Pakistan were expected to migrate to their homeland India. Legally and circumstantially, it was clear that British India was divided into Hindu India and Muslim Pakistan.
Thirdly, Ambedkar rejected the proposal to make India secular becaude India was created as a nation state for Hindus.
Notwithstanding all of the above, India is the historical homeland of the Hindus and the right to self determination is unique to Hindus, more so after the partition.
Muslims have not right to self determination left as they exercised it in 1947. They can't exercise it either in Kashmir or in anywhere in India. If they do, violence against them will be justified in law.
Are justifying killing of muslims in India..
Are you saying that the killing of Indian muslim is ok is fine ??
@@deception6666 Absolutely if they act to partition India again.
Gandhi did not use his influence with Nehru and Patel to allow Muslims 50 percent seats in Central Legislature as well as in Provincial Assemblies.Even today Muslims aren't given 50 percent jobs in Government of India. Thus even without Jinnah, Muslims would would have been able to get Pakistan.
on Jinnah's 11 August speech, they start "mind reading" which Prof Ahmed accused Syesha Jalal earlier.
After watching this kind of debate, I always come to conclusion, people of India need education…to make sense of these kind of interviews. Let’s promote free education…
Education and indoctrination are two different things. They run parallel. We have to block the indoctrination coming from outside our borders since Khilafati movement, to Oil money madrasas. Pakistan is much more hardlined today that it was at independence. So is Afghanistan. So is Bangladesh. Or Maldives. in 2008 Maldives passed resolution that only Muslims can be citizens. There was no award wapsi in Maldives for that. No international condemnation. Are they not educated?
@@mewtubeofficial Since you are using Pakistan as an example, you should learn from your own example. Get out of BJP sponsored indoctrination else you will end up just like Pakistan.
@@mewtubeofficial Muslim countries became hardliners when they see injustice like kashmiris being killed, palestinian being killed and bombings on muslim countries like Syria, libia, Afghanistan, Iraq, Lebanon...
What do you expect from them?
@@Wanderer975 And what about Hindus and Sikhs who were ethnically cleansed from illegally created Pakistan? Munafiq quom
@@mananmody9355 k@fir life doesn't matter olahh said it in asmani kittabb.
Karan, invite Venkat Dhulipala to continue the conversation. He has written a seminal book on the popular undercurrent that Mr. Jinnah leveraged to create Pakistan.
Looks good book. Thank you for this intellectual conversation. It is true Jina was never secular or nationalist. When he was in Congress, he used to take care of Muslims only. Through Lokmanya Tilak, he did the same. Refer Lucknow Pact of 1916.
No doubt, Jina was. Communal person.
You missed the truth my brother.
@@Dendronish Jinnah always a communal man this is reality
@@Peaceful_World130 Only communal minds find Jinnah communal.
@@Dendronish yeah we are communal for communal people Pakistan is communal country so we are communal for them
great information which changes entailed flaw relating to partition theory
Wow , thank you
I think most Indians have erased from their collective memory that only nine years before Pakistan was created Myanmar also left the India to become an independent nation.
its natural because Myanmar(Burma) was never been an integral part of India .British who invaded Burma. plz read something related before you comment on something . ty
@@shankhashubhro9510 You are expecting too much from momeen to be well informed and enlightened.
We know that, but you seem not to understand Burma was a part of chola empire vassals for more than 1000 years, the culture of East India is very different from west.
Especially the afghanistan pakistan region.
Abhey Burma was always a different country.
Such a ignorant man you are ali... Myanmar the then Burma, was not part of even the pre British Indian empire, British occupied Burma and added to Indian empire around second half of 19th century.
When nationalistic sentiments aroused in Burma, Congress itself supported it.... And then British themselves in early 20th century separated Burma from British Indian Empire for administrative concerns...
Time to take back all our ancient land.
Akanda Bharath. Jai Hind.
While it would have been a pleasure to listen to Dr. Ahmed, the takeaway unfortunately was Thapar's unrelenting whine. He had made up his mind before the interview and he just wanted to use Dr. Ahmed as a prop to validate his views.
His gratuitous comments about Jaswant Singh and the BJP - and the defense of Nehru and the Congress - were typical The Wire obfuscation. Thapar didn't once mention that Singh was expelled from the party as a result of the controversy surrounding his book.
So, before we all go gaga over how The Wire has so fairly given Dr. Ahmed space to air his views, ponder whether it actually did so or was it a mere facade with malafide intentions.
Sadly all these nuances will be pooh-poohed.
Thank you
So many comments with 0 views. How come?
A gentleman.
Islamic ideology has been inconsistent with secularism and democracy freedom and human rights civil liberties but promoting separatism and extremism and radicalism and terrorism.
and how hierarchical system of Hinduism is consistent with democracy. Why communities like gujjars jats and Marathas look for quota/reservation to preserve their privileges.
Good to see Dr. Ahmed finally getting to have his say and be heard.
Even the Special Forces of any country is ready to sacrifice 2 soldiers to save 7.
Give this professor some respect Mr. Thapar, you pouncing on "lets not get into details" was very high handed, as an interviewee there is lack of humbleness and for sure high handed in the way you wanted to take the interview forward, you aught to be more polished and respectable in your approach to intellectuals, i bet you wouldn't do the same to any non Asian historian, your syllables sounded very autocratic. Very disappointed on this approach and ashamed at this whole episode, which would be have been handled nicely.
Yes, it was. There is a subtle way of bringing conversation back to center and Karan's way was anything but subtle.
I completely agree with you. I felt the same. The way he was interrupting was quite strong. Sir Ahmed should start his own channel so that he can speak without being interrupted.
Both KT and Arfa Khanum are of the same level of competence and journalistic grade
Jinnah was the only freedom fighter muslims in India had. They say we have fought for our land with British. They also took it away.
Jinnah was against persons in public life indulging in religious activities in public & he openly told both Tilak-whose lawyer he was -and also Gandhi . Jinnah would have probably agreed for a limited partition even in 1946 had Muslim League had been allowed Home ministry in the interim government, but Patel put his foot down and the way interim government was filibustered by the Muslim League the top five of the Congress -Rajaji, Nehru, Patel, Azad & Prasad -decided that partition would be the answer to distrust between Muslim League & Hindus . Jinnah was a member of the Congress party & until he agreed/was made toagree that Muslims were getting a raw deal at the hands of Hindu majority that he did not join the Muslim League. Of course ,Jinnah & Hindu Mahasabha struck a deal & formed provincial governments in Sind, NWFP & United Bengal
Credit must be given to Rajaji formula by which the Pakistan that Jinnah got was described by Jinnah as moth eaten & husk . Unfortunately, Rajaji did not get/has not got due credit for calling the bluff of Jinnah
Think like a scientist, but not like a rationalist. I think, you know the difference between scientific thought and rationalist thought.
Ask me, here or in Facebook.
And Patel got the taste of his adamant behaviour , when Liaqat
ali as Finance Minister proved more tahn a match for him.
If Pakistan 1.0 was moth eaten, so what is Pakistan 2.0? Actually Jinnah was a perfect lawyer who always wanted more.
And bro, A.K. Fajlul Haque always was an outsider in Muslim League and actually he was Mukul Roy of West Bengal BJP today, except few bunch of jokers along with the speaker of west Bengal unable to notice it. In fact, Hindu mahashabha had a single seat in United Bengal assembly. And so called shamya-haque government was dissolved due to strong enemity of Jinnah Muslim league and Mr. Haque was not a member of that party in 46 election.
I know that, most Indians are perfectly idiot in history & politics because of Hindu religion. In hindu education history is absent & as brahmin is top in caste system, politicians or khatriyas or military is inferior to them. So, Indian have a culture of inferior political knowledge. Aren't you a perfect example of that Indian?
@@iqbalmasudkhan5505 True