Dyno Testing a Mondello 455 Olds Big Block - Horsepower S13, E8
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- Опубліковано 30 вер 2024
- After launching their classic Olds 455 engine build at the home base of "Dr. Olds", Joe Mondello - Joe and Mike finish their buildup and test results on the engine dyno. Plus, another budget-friendly tech tip.
PARTS USED IN THIS EPISODE:
Accel: ACCEL U-Groove performance spark plugs, Advance curve kit, Adjustable vacuum advance.
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ARP: Head bolts, Rod bolts, SB Chevy accessory kit, Main studs, & Harmonic balancer bolt
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Centerforce: Steer Flywheel
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Comp Cams: XE284H, Xtreme Energy Hydraulic Flat Tappet Camshaft, Hydraulic-Street / Strip, needs 9:1 comp. 2800+ stall, headers, gears, rough idle. Pro Magnum┬Щ Hydraulic Lifters; Olds (V8 260-455) Pontiac (V8 326-455). Both have been infused with Pro Plasma Nitriding Treatment.
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Comp Cams: Ultra-Gold Rocker Arms; 7/16" Stud, 1.6 Ratio (16).
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Dupli-Color: Universal Gold engine enamel.
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Dupli-Color: Red and Grey Vinyl and Fabric Coating.Touch-up repair prep wipes.
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Edelbrock: 77cc Performer RPM aluminum cylinder heads.
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Edelbrock: Performer Olds 455 aluminum intake manifold.
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Hedman Hedders: 1 3/4" to 3" long tube headers
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Holley: 870 cfm Street Avenger carb.
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Loctite: Sealants and thread locking compounds
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Moroso: 8.25" Deep Gold Iridite Oldsmobile oil pan and pickup, 7qt.
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Mr. Gasket: Ultra-Seal Overhaul Gasket set.
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Percy's High Performance,Inc.: SPLIT-LOCK Fasteners - Header Bolts - Black Oxide
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Pioneer Inc.: Harmonic balancer.
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Royal Purple: Royal Purple Break-in Oil.
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Summit Racing: Carburetor, Summit, 750 cfm, Square Bore, 4-Barrel, Manual Choke, Mechanical Secondary.
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Summit Racing: 750 cfm Quadrajet electric choke
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CFR Performance: Tail Chrome Valve Covers
Mondello Tech Center: Machining of block surfaces, align hone crank mains, hone cylinder bores, resize rods, balance rotating assembly, polish crank journals, port cylinder heads, valve angle grind, deburr block casting, install and measure bearing tolerances, install oil restrictors and oil galley plugs, modify timing set, file piston rings and degree camshaft.
Mondello Tech Center: Heat Seeker II-Engine oil additive to eliminate heat & friction during initial break-in of new performance engines.
O'Reilly Auto Parts: Reman. Distributor, Rotor Button, Cap, Capcover, Ignition Coil
O'Reilly Auto Parts: Distributor Hold Down Clamp
O'Reilly Auto Parts: Valley Pan Gasket
O'Reilly Auto Parts: Valve Cover Gaskets
O'Reilly Auto Parts: Head Gaskets (2)
O'Reilly Auto Parts: Hydraulic lifters (16)
O'Reilly Auto Parts: Heater hose 1Ft., Elbow
O'Reilly Auto Parts: Rotella 10W-30
O'Reilly Auto Parts: 1030W O'Reilly Motor Oil (8)
O'Reilly Auto Parts: Dupli-Color Vinyl and Fabric Dye (gray)
O'Reilly Auto Parts: Vinyl and fabric dye
O'Reilly Auto Parts: Prep Wipes (2)
O'Reilly Auto Parts: Cloyes Timing Set
O'Reilly Auto Parts: Water Neck
O'Reilly Auto Parts: Water pump.
Pertronix: Patriot Exhaust Products recently introduced the VaraFlow muffler featuring SFI Technology.
![[UA] NAVI проти G2 Esports | Blast Premier Fall Final](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/QWlIm4FGESQ/mqdefault.jpg)
We'll continue to post these episodes here on UA-cam. If you can't wait for the rest of the build, visit our site to binge-watch: www.powernationtv.com/shows/horsepower
Paint the waterpump to match the engine.
loving these episodes! keep them
coming!
PowerNation what are the cam spec?
How about a big block 2 stroke olds:www.4btswaps.com/threads/turning-4stroke-into-2-stroke.12888/#lg=thread-12888&slide=0, Thats a sbc but an aluminum olds drce should work for a 2 stroke conversion.
The 455 is not supposed to be gold it's supposed to be blue
I remember growing up watching these show. So glad they are posting them to youtube now
People are cutting out cable but keeping internet. UA-cam is where the people are, and these videos will make more money with ad revenue than they used to make selling the DVDs.
Think it was on sundays for me good times my pop's and i would watch them eating breakfast in the living room.
@@mrincredible5492 It was the same thing for me. Dad was the bread winner so when we did get a chance to spend time together this was it on Sunday mornings
When were these filmed?
Vi Topher most 10 years ago
I miss Joe, he was a legend.
I went to his head school out in California back in 99'. Joe was a straight shooter with a ton of knowledge and the shop was beautiful. "Keep it moving" he used to say!
His son Bernard has his own shop now in Corona.
@@michaelhorgan9525 anyone take over Joe Shermans shop? Another legend gone
Jet boat applications proved how tough the Olds 455 and Ford 429/460 motors are, run wide open from one end of the lake to the other. Saw quite a few BB Chevys scatter trying to do the same. We used to say the best marine application for a Chevy is use it for an anchor!
Hate to break it to you it's not the motor it's the Builder and operator
You may want to check your math..joe bored the cylinders .030 over increasing the cubic displacement to I think about 468 so keep tuning
461 Charles.. 468 is .060
@@sterlingarcher8441 Beat me :-)
More exactly 454.6, 461.2 and 467.9 CID respectively.
@@gordowg1wg145 beat me my name is cutty468 lol
mine was 060 / 468 over , it ran for 4 years up until i sold the chevelle i had it in those were the days
Yep, not quite one HP per cube yet...
Hogging out the heads then putting on a untouched intake has me scratching my head.
Not to mention that the intake is pretty low profile
Not to mention a flat tappet cam. My goodness these guys probably left a good 100 horse on the table with a solid roller cam and a port match high rise intake.
HP peak way down at 4700 RPMs has me scratching my ass... no sign of cam spec.s...
Near stock Performer intake on hyper Performer RPM heads...
OK... Look closely 00:47 re-using stock flat tappet cam... 4700 RPMs HP peak...
Back in the early days of 455 building, there wasn't alot of choices to go with. Edelbrock had the O4B dual plane, a step up from the stock c i. intake & Offenhauser had a tunnel ram & a single/ dual quad version which helped airflow to the c.i. stock A-F heads. Mondello was THE king of Olds heads modifications to help make those intakes to work.
A good Qjet may be better... Oldsmobile engines seem to just love em.
You guys being Chevy everything don't seem to understand that a Olds 455 is a long stroke torque motor. This is why they are so popular in jet boats.
joe taught me a lot i used a lot of his information to build a 468 olds reworked the quadrajet with one of joes kits made a bit over 600hp and almost 600ft lbs of torque it looked almost stock that was 27 years ago damm i miss those days i put that motor in a 71 chevelle it was quite the combo a 455/468 in a chevelle i can say id invest in head studs and a gear drive for this build ! if this motor doesnt get 700hp you guys need to go back to the drawing board ! nice parts
I doubt it made that kind of power with a stock bottom end.
Only made 455 HP from a 461"...
Yes, a .060 over 455 equated to 468. Joe did sell stroker kits/combos good for 480+ c.i. Some were sold as motor home upgrades using the original GMC 230 & 260 designated chassis. Since the majority of Olds 455 blocks were limited to .060 over bores, the stroked versions gave a still under square engine for lower rpm torque.
1hp per cube don't take into account the overbore.
Underrated comment
Their Is not anything special about this motor, The dual plane Intake Is killing this motor to, The 455 ranged from 250 ho to 400 from the factory, So say it was a 350 hp stock It picked up over 100 hp and that's not bad at all.
(4.156÷2)sq x pi x 4.250 x 8 = *461.23 ci*
Exactly
If you guys used a torker intake, you could've got the 500 a lot faster.
It's always good to see some people still enjoy a great motor, can't beat an Olds 455
Derrick 112 - Old boat refer to the Olds 455 as boat anchors. Sorry, but it was a pig of an engine. Decent torque but very low hp for the cubic inches.
@@danmyers9372 hp don't matter. It's the pull. Got a 68 olds that is amazing. As factory it's torque 500 lbs. Has more then any factory 454.
@@danmyers9372 I don't care what old boat says, the olds 455 was the engine of choice in high-performance jet powered boats. I've seen a stock olds 455 blow the doors off supercharged Chevy 454 in the same exact make and model jet boat... jet boats need torque, not horsepower
@karen fyhr 😂😂😂😂 you’re out of your mind
@@danmyers9372 Nah... My N/A Olds 505" engine makes 730h.p., 670ft-lbs, pulls hard to 7100-7200 RPMs, and has docile street manners. In fact, the engine is somewhat of a compromise to make it more street friendly, and would make even more power with a cam swap and a larger carburetor.
Pig? Boat anchor? Hardly...
The car it's in absolutely SMOKES many unsuspecting Chevy's with "boat anchor" B.B.C's in them. I Made a 540 Chevelle look like a 4 cylinder a few weeks ago. When I opened my hood for him after the race, he was speechless. He thought I was seriously joking when I told him there was an Olds motor under there with 35 less cubes than his.
If somebody's Olds is a "pig" or a "boat anchor", or they can't successfully make one work, then they have no idea what they are doing with it. It's as simple as that.
Man that red looks horrid on those seats🤢
And all over the floor..
Who told him that looked good???
I’m not too sure myself but first thought was same omg that not attractive at all ....
The blue tape even looked better.
2.24, an adjustable wrench? Seriously? 😳🤯
no dyno graph to show for all that. thumbs down. peak numbers are not the entire story.
Had a 70 olds 98 455 rated low at 390hp 510 lbs ft of tourqe. Stock olds rocks.
SHOULD have threw on some headers and swapped the cam out to a 230 dur @ .050s.
@@w41duvernay I was 17 and stupid. I regret losing that car :(
@@w41duvernay never lost a race in that boat. Turbo 400 automatic, would ream out 1st gear to 60 2nd gear to 90 hit drive and it was floating never took it past about 120. I embarrassed many hot cars and vettes in that thing. My driving and knowing the car helped a lot. Lost the muffler and threw on a glass pack. It sounded bad as hell...
EVERYTHING WAS GOING SO WELL UNTIL THAT SUMMIT 750 CARB CAME OUT
VACUUM ADVANCE: Disappointed to see two supposedly 'pro' engine builders thinking that a leaky vacuum advance hose is going to steal all their horsepower. At 12:15, he says he's found the problem, in that the leaky hose is 'preventing the distributor from pulling full advance' and insinuating that this is the root issue why they are missing some 100+ hp. Perhaps we should review how & when vacuum advance works and what it's for.
(Please forgive the following cut-n-paste from an article I wrote some years ago for a local gearhead newsletter)
-Two advance mechanisms in most older points type and HEI distributors: mechanical advance and vacuum advance. Mechanical simply relies on engine speed to fling weights around and cause the rotor to pivot a bit opposite the normal direction of rotation and allow the spark to be advanced. Most mechanical advance setups provide about 25° to 35° of total advance (total = initial idle advance setting + the mechanical advance provided at engine speed), generally all in by 3400 rpm or thereabouts.
-The vacuum advance works strictly on engine vacuum (either ported vacuum [vacuum above the throttle plates] or manifold vacuum taken straight from the intake manifold...ported vacuum was a BS emissions trick that didn't work worth a crap, so 60's and early 70's muscle cars and engines used manifold vacuum almost exclusively...the ported vacuum engines were mostly mid-to-late 70's and early 80's). Engines only have any appreciable vacuum at idle and small throttle openings, so there's your hint as to 'when' the vacuum advance will be functional.
-To dig deeper, know that the ease with which an air-fuel mixture ignites and the speed at which it burns is closely related to how rich or lean the mixture is. A richer mixture lights quickly and burns fast (within reason...a super-rich mix will soak the spark plug and cause a miss). A lean mixture is harder to light and burns slower. If we're talking about a track-only vehicle here, with a big cam that allows little idle vacuum and where the car is being thrashed almost constantly, a vacuum advance is never given a chance to do anything or the engine is incapable of generating any appreciable vacuum. The distributors on many older racing engines don't even have provisions for a vacuum advance canister.
-But any car that is regularly driven on the street needs that vacuum advance. Why? Smoother idle, for one (at least with manifold vacuum...ported vacuum setups have no vacuum advance at idle, so their idle might be sucky, especially on a built engine). But the real reason is at highway speed...cruising. Tooling down the road at 60 mph, the throttle is barely open, so the mixture is very lean...which is fine. We don't need a lot of power to cruise down the road. But, if all we have for advance is the 30° to 35° from the mechanical advance, we're getting a crap burn from that lean mixture. It's lighting way too late, and can even cause header & exhaust manifolds to glow cherry-red, as the burn is happening so late it's completing in the heads' exhaust passage and even downstream from there. That's power that is not being used to propel a piston down the bore. That's big power lost and fuel wasted.
-So the obvious answer is to use the available vacuum that we get at cruising speed to further advance the timing. The advance unit simply has a rubber diaphragm that connects to an arm that pulls on the breaker plate (or the plate that the HEI triggers are mounted to) and the plate rotates around the center to provide an earlier trigger for the spark. A vacuum advance unit can advance the timing 20° to 25° beyond what the mechanical advance is capable of. So yes, bopping down the highway on a lazy day can mean the timing might be advanced as much as 55° or even more. Lean mixtures under little load can take big chunks of advance with no pinging/detonation issues. Stomp on the throttle, and the intake reverts back to atmospheric pressure pretty much instantly, and timing drops back to whatever the mechanical advance supplies, and no pinging (as long as your fuel doesn't suck). And when it comes to fill-up time, your wallet will thank you.
(end article)
So you can see why the assertion that a bad vacuum advance hose is stealing horsepower on the dyno is a silly one. The only time there's any vacuum in this case is at idle...the rest of the time the throttle is WFO trying to make lots of dyno horsepower and manifold vacuum is non-existent. Worst-case scenario is they mighta leaned the mixture a tad, but a small vacuum leak like that isn't going to screw you out of 100+ hp.
Anyway, sorry for the freaking book here...just seems that with newer cars everywhere no one remembers (or ever knew) what vacuum advance was for or how it works. ✌-out
So much little shit like that flies under radar to most people!
no vacuum at full throttle.
Duh! And at least one of these guys is old enough to remember this! I don’t know, it is a tv show, maybe they’re actors reading a script?
Understand that I'm not intending to disparage these gentlemen. Tired, late, frustrated, looking for the source of problems and you find something and run with it without thinking it through.
The only way the vacuum advance would work at WOT is if you connected it to ported vacuum. When it’s connected to manifold vacuum even moderate throttle (under a load) will not produce enough vacuum to move the advance.
Considering these engines were rated between 275 and 400 horsepower in stock form the 456 hp/ 537 lb-ft of torque was a good number for this mild build on a vintage muscle car engine. Nicely done.
In 1970, they made over 400 hp stock...this had crank balancing, head and intake swap plus headers....seems like 475 should've been a little more respectable target...considering the engine is limited in upgrades...
750 carb works fine on a single plane intake manifold. You want to almost double that for a dual plane manifold. Each cylinder is now only breathing through half the carb. Dominator 1150 :)
the intake manifold is holding it back
The camshaft too. The one used, would be better in a small block 350-403CI.
There was an update many years later and they did upgrade the camshaft and the intake and it made a bit more power.
@@brightstarlastname2812 I was amazed Joe did not make them put an Engle cam.
Needs a Air Gap intake
@@lamontwhitehead1809 that is an rpm airgap
Whisker biscuit? More than cubic inches on your mind.
Edelbrock heads you better take them apart cause the guides will leak. And never pump up any howards / morel roller lifters . or any anti pump up lifters . VR1 Valvoline high zinc and a bottle of zinc additive. Never had a cam issue and break in cam vary the rpm every 5 minutes for 30 minutes from 2000 to 2700 rpm. Like 2200 , 2400 , 2500 , 2700 then back down. So oil is slung off crank at different angles onto the camshaft.
And no one cares about your stupid comment either hotep........ And he never said oil Is sprayed from the crankshaft, Like to old saying goes, Some kids are better seen and not hard from.
Wasn't gold for the small blocks?
330's 350's etc.
Blue for the big blocks.....
Red for some early 425 big blocks bronze for 68 to 72 big blocks blue after that
@@jeffflaig362 Soooo only Gold for small blocks.
WTF who gives a rats ass what color the FUCKING engine is? DUMB FUCK HEADS!
330, and 350 were gold. 400 were bronze. 425 were red. 455 were red in 68, and 69. Then 455 were blue from 70 on thru 76.
Blue started after 74 or 75...350 and 455 were both gold before and blue after...had 71 and 75 Toro with 455 and cutlasses with 350...ten bolts in valve covers on gold engines...five bolts in blue...technically speaking, no such thing as small block/big block olds...engine blocks are same size...different bores and strokes...
So just found out that at 16 years old my grandfather has a 1967 Olds 442 with the 455 rocket in it rotting into the ground with a tarp on it. I’m gonna take it and build it over these next few years and have my dream car
Had to add a comment to get away from that evil number. RIP Joe you are definitely a legend and pioneer for us Olds guys
Did Joe die?
Did you port the intake manifold?
I would think you would need bigger than 750 cfm! No !
"I'm not showing you what we do." As he puts the lifter he just pre pumped into the motor...
🤣😂
Yeah but they said it has solid lifters?????? This is total BS.
@@BigDaddy-fx4nx no actually he said it was a hydraulic roller.
@@attitudeadjusted9027 4:02 He says "we've been soaking our Comp hydraulic lifters...." Nothing about rollers or solid, and of course you can see for yourself that he has flat tappet lifters in his hand.
For the record don’t pump up your hydraulic lifters
TIMING (vacuum advance) and VALVE adjustment (pre pump lifters) After 30 years Still finding same old mistakes!
glad you spotted the rooky mistakes. cam brake in is best with 2500 rpm plus!! as for timing i static time the engine and i pr-curve the dizzy so i no the total as well as base timing the instant it fires and use manifold vacuum on the distributor to get more idle vacuum as well as a cooler idel. then i fine tune using a vacuum gauge along with sum wide open throttle blasts. pull the plugs and take a reading.
Worse: Look closely 00:47 re-using stock flat tappet cam... 4700 RPMs HP peak...
No vacuum at wide open throttle boys.😨
Those same mods on a 454 Chevy would be well over 500 hp. They did the 454 with stock heads and low compression pistons and made 408 hp. Then they installed dome pistols aluminum heads roller cam and had over 600 hp.
Yeah, BBCs pretty well crush every other GM big block. Frankly, there's no reason to build any GM engine besides LS variants and BBCs over 572 unless you just have to have a matching brand motor for a mild build.
@@member5488 the aftermarket really caters to the sbc/ bbc crowd. In terms of aftermarket support no other engine platform has access to as many good parts. In any N/A application cylinder heads are for the most part the deciding factor in terms of peak hp n compared to Buick Olds n Pontiac the options are endless for sbc n bbc.
frankly you should try to keep your head out of your ass and mind your own fucking business.opinions are like assholes member 548.
Big block Chevrolets definitely make more power but the olds mobiles engines seam like torque monsters
It’s got a lot to do with the stroke arrangement with the olds.
This engine would likely pick up 25 hp and as much torque with an air gap intake vs the performer, would like to see the comparison
Even a Torker would most likely help.
Shaving down the divider a half inch or so in the intake would likely give 10-20hp also.
Not likely... small cam, low compression ratio...
Look closely 00:47 re-using stock flat tappet cam... 4700 RPMs HP peak...
@@BuzzLOLOL he said hydraulic roller not flat tappet like stock
Do I still see rust in the block water jackets? Thought all that would get cleaned out
don't look and don't think it might help you to keep your head out of your asshole! good luck there chuck!
@@camgnilpe9300 shut up
A 750cfm carb is fine for 450hp. Swapping that didn't do anything.
I’d love to see a test with a single plane intake and a Holley Dominator. It still seems about 50 horsepower low.
or a well setup tunnel ram and solid flat tappet
I had a 425 Olds in a 66 that was flogged hard and regularly. Toughest big bore engine I ever saw.
425 had a forged crank. Yep, tough as nails.
Well in one video, reviewer told Hurst engines weren't that strong as compared to others!
ALSO there was typically more cylinder wall thickness to accept a max overbore engine. Getting the EARLY non-Toronado 425 "D" blocks was the key using the normal.842 lifter bore size. If I remember right, all 425's were forged steel cranks & rods. Like a 427 Chevy bb, the engine loved to rev with the under square bore/stroke combo. The major probkem was keeping the majority of the oil down at the crank. Joe remedied the problem with oil restrictors in the main oiling passage to the crank to maximize the flow of oil to the bottom end, thus saving many bottom ends from oil starvation along with higher volume & pressure oil pumps.
Fake as Hell.. Put your motor's into real cars with tires and then on a real Dyno..
This is why the 442 was a hemi killer back in the day
🧢🧢🧢
Nope. They were quick but not Hemi killer status. Give that to the Buick 455 Stage I
Wow. I am supposed to listen to these fellas. All do respect , lot of stupid mistakes. No reason for a fresh engine not to fire first turn, Ever heard of static timing ? Then not checking for full advance , and thinking the cracked vacuum line is the problem. 750 carb is too small. Finally with Olds engines , you would be amazed at how well a non EGR factory cast iron intake performs compared to aftermarket aluminium
Problem is 00:47 re-using stock flat tappet cam... 4700 RPMs HP peak...
They've got a different definition of "whisker biscuit" than I do...
Same here.
What does it mean ?
@@josuepaz9446
the muff, a woman's crotch, the bush
Apparently, it's something used in bow hunting but of all bow hunters I know, I've never heard that term used
Mmm, now I’m hungry...thanks bro.
I have a whisker biskit arrow rest on my bow. I use it when im elk hunting. I have never heard anyone call a hoo haw that... so basically he said to the other guy, "You ready pussy?"
Joe Mondello passed away in April, 2011. R.I.P.
455 Olds were never HP engines, they were torque engines, keep them below 5000 rpm and they live forever. The 4.125 bore was small for HP but the 4.250 stroke made up in torque.
This thing is a dog. All those parts and no power. You can get the same power from most stock bottom end small blocks. With good heads, a cam, headers and a few more parts. A dog I tells ya, Dr. Olds is a quack.
00:47 re-using stock flat tappet cam... 4700 RPMs HP peak...
'Since I couldn't sleep' and precedes to show a darked out shop; highly implying that he was SO dedicated that he went in and worked that night. Nice try, but next time, try to be mindful of the DAYLIGHT peeking in through the expansion joint on the wall 13:54 and also try to remember that computers display the TIME, lol 14:00. Oopsie! Lame-ass, unnecessary drama...
Just to give the benefit of a doubt, perhaps he DID come in late that night...with no cameraman. So what we see is a reenactment...maybe.
@@warrenzevonsangryghost6055 That's quite a stretch, but hey, in the world of entertainment, I guess anything could be possible, lol.
Those front covers should stay loose until the balancer is on as if its not square the balancer seal will leak.
Im glad to see oldsmobile get a lil love on this show been watching this on sat morning every weekend for yrs go old s 🚀🚀🚀
At 0:47 he says he's gonna add a hydraulic roller cam shaft. Those are flat tappets. . You hacks
But looks like a used flat tappet cam... careless video editing...
456 horsepower with all that head work? Very disappointing!
No kidding that's poor
@@jefferybernard4800why. Was you wanting 600 horse power. I don't think so. I have a Pontiac 455 makes the same horse power under the hood
1hp per ci is great. Olds engines are known for torque, not hp. Yall must be young.
Build an Olds 455 for torque. ALL torque. A mild dual pattern marine cam for daily driver, not attracting attention. Injectors and velocity stacks, not a big carb. Higher compression ratio while you're at it. Now gear it 272:1. The busted gear teeth and twisted drivetrain can be dealt with AFTER. Torque is what you FEEL everyday. It's the fun. And the biggest reward of this build? GREAT fuel economy if you aint nailin' it all the time. Surprise!
I appreciate that you guys showed when you goofed up a bit. It shows that youre human and can make mistakes.
These kids are clueless about tuning and do not deserve their access to a dyno! Don’t check the carb for fuel by working accelerator pump and watching for fuel shot, leave off spark plug wires, think that a pin hole in vacuum advance tubing will cost them WOT HP, concern with initial timing rather than total timing which caused them to not know their centrifugal advance wasn’t working much less the huge loss of power from not enough total timing. These clowns also never said what RPM the peak HP & Tq numbers came in at, cams specs and how many CFM’s the heads flowed at what pressure drop from the flow bench! I don’t know what is wrong with this combo, but if you can’t get 600 HP out of a big inch engine with aftermarket aluminum heads then something is wrong! Could be lack of good basic tuning and lack of total timing or the cam and/or intake is choking this engine down. There is something wrong!!!
That flat performer intake is killing that engine
Um... a small vacume leak at the distributor isn't going to effect timing at WOT...you know, when there is almost no vacume. It will lean the engine out slightly though, depending on were the vacume is sourced.
How can you be so off from the start? They picked up 120 hp with timing and a carb swap with jetting.
I built a 455 in the 80s that made this kind of power with stock c heads.
What a joke.
maybe you just think you were making 455 horsepower with stock parts...you know, 335 hp with 500 foot pounds makes for one hell of a burn out machine so im sure it was a mad car but imagine what it would have been like with 455 hp
stickloaf yeah maybe I just imagined me going 11.80s @ 113 weighing close to 4000 in a 70 cutlass. I’m not speaking from theory I speaking from facts. They should have made 500+. Hp
@@rle1020 do you realize how many people say it's not possible to get 500 hp from olds 455??? Expensive, but possible...just have to do it under 5000 rpm...they like the foot stomp but not the wind up like a 327 chevy....
Look closely 00:47 re-using stock flat tappet cam... 4700 RPMs HP peak...
It's not easy to make a olds engine produce more horsepower than torque, but unlike the other 455,s of the day olds engines were 3 inches shorter, just as the 350 olds engines were 3 shorter deck height wise than a 350 Chevy.
I'm not hating but its frustrating as a foxbody guy that he just ruined a set of rare black seats
@Z I know I try to save everything I can for them
That really sucks all that talk & problems with timing... BUT YOU NEVER ONCE Even mention WHERE the timing was at or advanced to!!
You don't pick up 20+hp because of "cool dry air", unless you're using uncorrected numbers, which aren't repeatable. They fudged they dyno correction just enough to get the 1hp per cube, so it doesn't look bad.
GM should've made that 307 olds one horsepower per cubic inch and left that smog shi# off it that would've made that small block at least decent 🤣🤣🤣🤣
That first carburetor was a horrible idea for this kind of build,there's a reason why Holley stopped making them.
Holley wasn't actually MAKING those - they were sold under their name - those are GREAT carburetors based on the old Autolite design HOWEVER they weren't available with the GIANT cfm sizes
Summit corrected those carb.s...
Definitely not impressed with these guy’s ability to tune or even know the problems . Nothing like cranking on a flat tappet engine removing all the break in lube off the camshaft… wait a minute they didn’t put any brake-in lube on the lifters !
but how long would that Old 455 live those engines are not good above 5k RPM
With the block job they did it should be fine
I have one in my boat. It’s runs for hours on end at 4500 rpm. Like 2 hours at 4500 rpm no letting off. oil pressure and water temp will never change, she is dialed in perfectly.
HP peaked at only 4700 RPMs with the stock cam they re-used...
Love my Oldsmobiles and I put a 455olds in a 77nova rally SS and you talking about badass, it was a bone stock engine and we raced a guy who had a short bed Ford pickup and he had a big block in it and over$4000, dollars in high performance parts and the nova blowed the doors off the Ford 🤣🤣🤣
How many off the shelf part motors will you guys build? Make some real power one day
typical shitty gm motor.. lol you can make 450 hp on a big block ford way easier than that
Gold paint is for the 400 engine blue is the 455
442 Olds black and gold Hurst dug
Olds gold was for a 330 350 cub IN 400 was bronze and 455 was red or metallic blue. Just saying.
Pass the gold Olds 455/461 off as a 400 in a 1960's Olds 442...
If you bored the cylinders .030 over, what is the actual cubic inch size of the engine?? Kind of blows the 1 HP per CI goal.... bummer man.. lol
Roughly 462
I don't like to be negative but.....
That motor was weak as circus cool aid and the seat looked like junk with that red.
You said you hate being negative but you are clearly good at it.
00:47 re-using stock flat tappet cam... 4700 RPMs HP peak...
Too bad the W-43 never got into production.
Loads of torque but I still don't think that's much HP considering ported AL heads, big cam, intake and carb, balance, decking, etccc
You’re not going to see ungodly horsepower numbers because the intake is too small for that. The heads also need 2.07/1.72 intake valves. Too much airspeed for those heads and not enough cross sectional area. For what it is, that’s good power/torque.
Peyton Hunt it makes for a good street strip engine. It certainly is not a all out race piece. Engine has lots of torque down low.
@@markball7028
That's correct and it makes for a good street car.
@@markball7028 nice for old school classic sleeper like a 98 Regency or Cutlass Supreme...heavy cars like torquey engines!
00:47 looks like they actually re-used the stock used flat tappet cam... 4700 RPMs HP peak says the same thing...
VACUUM ADVANCE IS NOT NEEDED TO MAKE FULL POWER>>>>THIS BUILD IS A JOKE>>>>>>YOU PEOPLE ON DRUGS>>>>>>SO MANY MISTAKES>>>>>THUMBS DOWN.
I think they were really looking for anything at that point and didn't make the connection that there shouldn't be any vacuum advance at full throttle.
Totally. Highschool level BS. I hate how the public think these shows have any credibility.
With premium heads and intake shouldn't it be easier to make more than 1HP per CID?
Did you hear it? Little more time and those guys could've destroyed that flat tappet anchor.
@lso4988 BS.
Yes but this is pretty much a shelf build that anyone can do. If they changed a few things they could make more power fairly easy. They definitely need to get them fuckin rocker arms off of it!!!! Gotta sell shit though! Put some pro magnums on if you are not going to shaft mount!!! All day power increase from rigidity
Olds engines make good torque but they’re a little soft on peak horsepower.
@@timsharpe3498 good for pulling those 6000 lb steel sleds from 70's Detroit....
Whoa....stock 455 W 30 supposedly makes 370 horsepower...what cam did they run? Not sure I caught that..Those Edelbrock heads had huge valves....2.19 Int and were they 1.84? exhausts? Hmm, yeah, that manifold could be suspect. Many years ago I built a 455 +.030, stock "C" casting heads, Lunati .570 lift solid cam, with 255 degree @ .050 , 2 inch Hooker headers 800 Holley D.P. Q-jet replacement carb, (spread bore) on an Edelbrock single plane intake.
With stock 10.5 to 1 compression, the motor made 485 horses....(don't recall torque). Ran 11.50's at 117 with a 9 inch tire in a 68 Cutlass...
00:47 re-using stock cam... 4700 RPMs HP peak...
Thanks so much for showing this. I'm an Oldsmobile guy from way back when. If you can find one I'd love to see you guys work on an Oldsmobile 425, specifically the one they used to put in the 66 and 67 Toronado. I'm looking to buy a 67 Toronado and would be interested to hear your comments on rebuilding it. It would need to keep the stock intake and exhaust manifolds and oil pan to fit, and I'd want to keep it looking stock too, but what could be done?
Thanks again!
425 was a Cadillac motor.
@@spaceghost8995, the Oldsmobile 425 was not a Cadillac motor. It was descended from the original Oldsmobile "Rocket" V8 from the late 40s. It went to a 455 the year after my Toronado was built. The 66 and 67 Toronados had a special high performance version of the Oldsmobile 425.
Cadillac's 425 was completely different, designed around the 472 in the 70s.
@@SirAndacar It's a great motor you got. I built a 66 toro motor & put it in an '80 Salon & the thing did wheelstands on street tires w/3.73 rear. Engle cam. B heads. Torker/holley #6213
@@Torch4Life, thanks for the reply! I should have clarified. I used to have a 67 Toronado way back in the early 80s and I miss it terribly. When I get another one I would be building the engine for long distance cruising and torque, not racing. I'd also be rebuilding the Turbo Hydramatic 425 front wheel drive transmission for heavier duty and longer life. I know a guy who is a genius with Quadrajets, so I'd stick with the stock carb as well.
@@SirAndacar Makes perfect sense. My example is probably rare, i was very pleased with how it was so willing to make power. I kinda grew up on 455s & it was my only attempt w/a 425, so your posting about them brought back fond memories. 18436572 for life.
My very first car was a '72 Olds Delta 88, 455 4 barrel. Great car, but a little hard on Gas.....
#1 NEVER pre- pump up lifters #2 vacuum advance is for station wagons, less vacuum on load = less advance . best set up for HP engine is no vacuum advance 30 regular 32 hi-test 34-38 race gas total timing . I enjoy your show but check what your doing and saying young pups!
Is that engine specific advice your giving?
You're right about the liftere, WRONG about vacuum advance.
Vacuum advance is for efficiency. If you’re not into efficiency that’s just you being wasteful.
@@timsharpe3498 When you step on the gas you lose manifold vacuum in turn your timing is reduced, its and antique knock prevention , how are you going to make hi power with 1/3 less timing?
An old fashioned distributor has about 15 to 20 degrees of centrifugal advance. When you add that to the initial timing you get total timing which is everything an engine needs at wide open throttle. Vacuum advance is for part throttle only.
i bet a performer rpm would have made 475hp,they are a lot better than the regular performer
Those olds are clean, compact, and simple.
Oldsmobile and buick engines just don't want to spin. A poncho 455 however is a different story. But shit 500+ ft lbs of tq. Is Duramax territory. Lol.
Poncho rods can't take over 5500 RPMs...
What a coincidence. Posted on my birthday and I also own a 69 Cutlass with a 455 😁
Well happy birthday from a fellow car guy. 🎂 🔧
@@ViperSRTnACR Thanks man 👍
For what you put into that motor something smells bad. Those olds 455 engines pulled 440 horse and 510ftbls from stock intake and a Quadrajet. You gained 15 horse and 27 ft. What did you do wrong? Not good gents that is embarrassing for you to show. I would not have even shown this on tv or you tube. Get it together and start over. I can do better with an engine that is already tired.
Look closely 00:47 re-using stock flat tappet cam... 4700 RPMs HP peak...
Cant go wrong with "OLDS GOLD"
dont try to use the spray on it otherwise BOOM!
I wouldn't buy another engine from Montello for 80?% off
Without Mondello 455's are BOAT ANCHORS!!!!!!!! Yep, priority main oiling is this engines main problem besides being over square!!!!! Plus a crappy exhaust port in stock type configuration.
I know of a Mondello customer who paid big bucks for a set of Mondello heads for his 455. They arrived and both heads had cracks and yes they were nothing more than 'boat anchors', lol!
Wrong intake manifold for that cam. Should have use a single plane intake instead. I guess that's what you get for using Edelbrick stuff...
Look closely 00:47 re-using stock flat tappet cam... 4700 RPMs HP peak...
Is it a motor or engine????
Engine lol ! I get it as well I always say engine because motors are electric motors not gas or diesel lol.
If I paid for a hydraulic roller cam I would not be putting flat tapped lifters in it! So wrong
00:47 re-using stock flat tappet cam... 4700 RPMs HP peak...
LOL, all that money and time to get 1 HP per ci. No wonder all the old boat racers refer to the Olds 455 as good boat anchors.
Look closely 00:47 re-using stock flat tappet cam... 4700 RPMs HP peak...
Imagine spending all that money and only making 450hp.
I wanna dump it in my cutlass '71
The best way to adjust valves hydraulic or solid is to roll the crank over, go from cylinder to cylinder and as each intake valve starts to close you adjust the exhaust valve and then when the exhaust valve begins to open you adjust the intake valve. If you have a lot of overlap it ensures your on base circle.
Thank you for posting these. So hard to find here in Australia
Well Australia is the only place with ford barra motors, makes us Americans pretty jealous
Joe Mondello was a crook. Hope then ppl now are better
Swap the intake back to the factory one
Nope, the factory intake could never make even 400hp... not going to happen. Been building Olds engines for 30 years, my guy, and never seen a factory intake go over 400hp, and be fickle as hell on a HP engine when it's hot outside.
From a production standpoint, these guys are TOP NOTCH video producers. Even vloggers (like I used to be) should watch and learn from the production staff that make these videos. Volume levels = Perfect! I'm not riding the volume control. Information flow = Perfect! Concise and to the point. I could go on and on but my food is ready. Later.
Do a 440 Chrysler build
Given the aftermarket cylinder heads, this combo is totally underwhelming. I'm thinking the wrong cam was used and I know the wrong intake was used. If done correctly, that engine should have made 500 some HP and still be streetable.
They did revisit this engine on Engine Power and they did swap the intake and cam (custom grind) and it make a bit more power.
reused the stock cam Not bad
If you look at your dyno sheet, engine torque is in lb-ft, not ft-lbs. ft-lbs is twisting torque used on bolts, lb-Ft is a measure of work capability.
People misuse those terms all the time.
I had a one on theses on a jet boat in the mid seventies when I was a kid and gas was cheap. It was said to be high performance 390 horsepower. I don’t how many thousands of gallons of gas I put through it and most of it at WOT. When I sold it, it smoked a bit at start, probably valve guides. It had a Holly spread bore 750 double pumper on it when it came from factory. The only problem I had was the fuel pump had a check valve the would at random times hang up and loose pressure. That drove me crazy because it would work when you tried diagnose. The only mod was a rev limiter so I didn’t have to lift between waves. Dam I beat the heck out of it......and it lived.
I wonder if a carb spacer would have grabbed 10 more hp.
hugieflhr03 you loose hp with those
@@yamahaguy1732 I don't know where you get your information at but a 1" carb spacer is good for between 10 and 15hp on most intake manifolds. Go either side and you will still gain but not as much. This is an old of a hot rodders trick as indexing the spark plugs and icing the intake between rounds.
Im right there with you on the spacer thing..I thought that's what he was gonna do when he stayed late! aside from a little bit larger plenum area you get a longer radius when air fuel mixture is making that 90 degree turn from the carb throats to the intake manifold ports.
Those TV shows are basically 30 minute advertising gimmicks to flood autozone o'Reilly's and jegs with cardboard box "builders"......everyone wants a race car but not so many know how or where to find the hidden horsies without spending a boatload of cash!
Fred Mendez I would agree. I think this is a very old episode and Mike was still cutting his teeth. He’s learned a lot since Pat joined the show and that’s what hotrodding is all about. Learn something new everyday👍
Just to be clear. Gold was for the Olds 350 Rocket motor. The 455 had its own color... Olds blue. NAPA was the only place I could find it.
Red too from 68 and 69 with c heads the 70 and up was blue
Fusick sells Olds Blue.