Riding the bold and beautiful SCW-1: Here’s what I think!
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- Опубліковано 5 чер 2023
- Today I ride the Structure Cycleworks SCW-1, FINALLY! You may have seen this bike before, with all its craziness. I’ve heard they ride really smooth, and finally got my hands on one in Bentonville, AR.
Thanks Matthew, for making this happen! Matthew is a brand ambassador for Structure Cycleworks and was able to avail one for me to try last week. Check out his Instagram here: @matthewkock
Although this video wasn’t about Bentonville or their Bike Festival, “Visit Bentonville” did sponsor my trip, and for that I am extremely grateful. There are very few places where I could gain access to such a bike in passing, and have such awesome terrain close by to test it on!
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If you want to know more about the SCW-1, I suggest you read Mike Levy’s review on Pinkbike, as it’s extremely detailed. www.pinkbike.com/news/review-...
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Whoever was thoughtful enough to name the front suspension "Without Telescoping Fork" is genius.
It's not even a stretch, the name is actually accurate
I assume you hope he/she is not the same person who engineered the linkage,
calculating the static/dynamic forces and determining the material/construction aspects?
Maybe he/she was busy with all that calculation and just......named it the obvious. : )
@@KenanTurkiye CEO to engineer: "So we want to innovate the front suspension."
Engineer: "I'm listening.?"
CEO: "We'd like you to design a front suspension system without a telescopic fork."
Engineer: ". . . Without... Telescopic... Fork...?"
CEO: "Exactly. I will get going so as to not impede your work. Thanks and good luck!"
*door shuts*
Engineer: . . . *"What the fork!"*
@@inventiveowl395 🙃
@@inventiveowl395 Hooold ooon.....considering your username!
aha! lol
First of all, thank you, Matthew, for making this test rig available for me! Sorry about the fork, but we now know that's not the final design. Also, it's interesting how the motorcycle industry has tried the same thing with front linkage and has never had much success with long term adoption. Consumer resistance is clearly the main reason, and often times it comes down to looks. I think the SCW-1 looks friggin' cool, maybe even beautiful. But I've spent my life drooling over mountain bikes with telescoping forks, and there's something unexplainable inside me that feels more comfortable with that. Getting to the root of this could teach us a lot about human nature. Either way, I can't wait to see what Structure comes up with next!
The best selling bike in europe for the last 15years has this design. The GS lineup from BMW. Though BMW is the only one who made it succesfull as far as i know. They call it a telelever
Rode Matts bike down in Sugarland Texas and was super impressed with it. At the time he had a electric motor mounted it flew through the trails with ease.
As soon as I saw this and you said Bentonville I knew exactly who lent you that bike. Matthew is a real one for sure.
Also that being Matthews bike its been through it. That guy goes big 100% of the time.
Mentioning motorcycles made me realize I've never seen a bicycle with a leading link front suspension on the street whereas it's been common in motorcycles for a very long time, especially underbones and sidecar rigs. I don't think brake dive is nearly as much of a problem on bicycles because of the magnitude of forces involved, though it might be interesting to explore for a tech-y video.
@@Mentholox Not quite, the Telelever still has telescoping stanchions (tele+lever), but they don't contain springs or dampers.
This is very similar to the Duolever system of the BMW K1200/1300/1600.
Think Telelever = McPherson for bikes, Duolever/Hossack = Double Wishbone for bikes.
Your the reason I got into MTB about 3 years ago and I've never looked back. Now my whole family is into it and we ride multiple times a week. So thank you for not only making great content but truly changing my life
w comment
@Patrik course you're called Patrick lmao
Me too. Family of 5 and we all ride. Two 42 year olds, and three 13 year olds all full suspension mountain bikes. Its been a crazy 3 years.
I hurt my spine but I’ll be cleared to ride in three more weeks I can’t wait to get back out there
Me too. Haven’t been this year yet with back issues but got me into it years ago when he was riding around the city and “trying” mtb.
Of course this has been done 20 years ago with the Whyte PRST1. I’m surprised it’s taken this long to come back as the Whyte had a loyal fan base and good reviews. Though it was heavy at a time when lightness was considered the most important quality for a bike.
I REMEBER that where bike very well never liked it though !GATE13SW6CREW cfc
BEARING MANUFACTURERS LOVE THIS ONE COOL TRICK
The "Shop Cone Wrench - 1"?! Cool :) We had the opportunity to ride one out at Sea Otter Classic and it felt promising!
The fact that it gets slacker as the shock is compressed is the real gamechanger for me. That is just an incredible feature for a mountain bike to have.
Other bikes have already engineered that feature into the rear linkage at this point, which combined with this front end could be the future of mountain bikes!
So glad you got to ride and enjoy the SCW-1 and SO Bummed the fork failed on you but SO Happy you weren't hurt. Great meeting you and see you soon in NC.
I love seeing companies trying new things. That’s how we get better stuff!
It's not new, not even remotely.
@@krazed0451 Explain to the person how it's not new then... Instead of sounding like your being a dick about his comment of not knowing that this is just another progressional adaption of old design ideas from other companies. 👌🏻
@@waynemarsh3771 Nah. Looks like you've got that covered.
@@krazed0451you’re tight 😂
Something about Seth's videos just puts me in a good mood.
Been having a rough day at work, and watched this video at lunch break. Now I'm just in a better mood, it's weird. Lol.
My job is definitely doing things differently everyday......but kind of the same....
Totally agree with "soft spot for bold, creative engineering"! I remember when Cannondale was pushing everything in bicycles & dirt bikes...fantastic years!
And ATK with off road motorcycles
I so much fell in love with Marin bikes when the put front telescope forks at the rear, must have been around 94?
But this design... Well, need much more time to try and like it.
Interbike 1995 was glorious. Almost nothing worked well or lasted, but it was so exciting. The potential seemed limitless.
Now, everything works pretty well, but it's kinda boring.
Looks like a modern version of the Pro Flex we loved back in the 90s 💪
This looks very interesting. Great to see some innovation in MTB engineering that's not just about adding or subtracting a few millimeters or degrees here and there every other year.
The big findings have already been made, but they are getting added slowly overtime for people to adapt to them because they still need to sell the bikes. For example, DH MTB would bennefit a lot from far higher bars, but it would look whacky enough that people might be skeptical about it.
@@Ferrari255GTO There's also the Grim Donut and its successor, which I consider evolutionary leaps :) Regarding DH bikes, I think you're spot on. I've put riser stems on my DH bike as well as my two enduro bikes and added Spank 35 60mm riserbars as well. Makes the climbing slightly worse, but it's really nice in steep sections.
@@AndreasRavnestad I have a tall stem and 76 mm dirt jump bars on my trail bike. It’s fantastic.
This is old and just marketing BS. If it were smart it would still be in use and popular everywhere
Not new bmw , Honda, and mountain bikes had this decades ago.
You make the best MTB videos ,thanks for entertaining me and learning new things ❤
This is the future of mountain bike suspension we need, but not the future we're going to get.
Stay strong. We're not All luddites!
@nickhudec I feel the same way. In my 32 years riding and racing mountain bikes it is by far and away the Best Bike I have ever ridden. Mike Levy might have said it best. "There is NO combination of stanction tubes and sliders and bushings no matter what fancy coatings that can compete with the level of calmness, composure and control of the Structure Cycleworks WTF linkage suspension."
When the 'cheap one' is $7,000+ !?!?!? Yeah - I'm never gonna get it.
On of the problems with the bicycle industry right now is the *ridiculous* cost of these things.
People hate proprietary components in bikes, and this makes the entire frame proprietary.
I'm not against this, but it's probably not going to catch on in a mainstream way.
@@JoshuaTootell Is it really more proprietary? I mean, think about it. If you want to change the feel of your fork on your "normal" bike, you have to buy the entire system: structure, spring and damping system. With this bike the structure is separated from the spring and damping. You can buy a different shock way cheaper than a different fork. Seems to be less proprietary in that regard. You can't put Rockshox Buttercups on your fork if you are running Fox. You'd have to buy a whole new fork.
I live in Calgary, where these bikes are designed, and have never seen one on the trails here. Thanks for bringing some attention to an innovative company.
I think it's awesome. I too enjoy bikes, and components that are out of the ordinary. If I had the $$$, I'd buy one tomorrow. Very cool.
9 minutes & 50 seconds
Speaking of things that bring joy to people, thank you for the videos & the channel.
I love that you explore technology even if it is not "cool" tec. I think the front end of the MTB is where we will see the most transformative changes, as far as engineering and creativity goes, over the next 30 years. It will take about 5-10 years before the real dramatic stuff happens. As I peer deep into the future I see a two wheeled vehicle that behave and perform vastly different from todays bike. It looks like something H.R. Giger would imagine, almost organic. In fact parts of it are. I see interconnected front and rear suspension that communicate with each other, but not in a traditional shock construction sense. The bike will flow over things in ways we can't even imagine(I can). Things as crazy as Rampage being done by intermediate riders. Cables and chains are gone. Wheel sets are airless and your mind is connected to the bike in some barely imaginable way. . . Well that was fun. So Seth you should do a show on the future of bicycles, specifically bicycles decades away. That would be way Cool Dude! P.S. Great show as always Sir. Cheers Kid! - M
This looks like a modern version of the Whyte PRST-1. Its good to see a company see the advantage of such a design and try to resolve some of the original flaws as I've always felt there was potential there.
Thank you for that comment.
I knew i had seen something similar over a decade ago but couldn't remember the name and style at all.
The original patent is Hossack double wishbone front suspension
I had a PRST 1 and then a PRST 4. Loved them both and only just sold the PRST4. This looks like the next level. Wonder why Whyte moved away from the design. Maybe they just didn't sell that well.
Was thinking the same. I had a demo day on one way too many years ago (20? Over ten anyway). Ended up with an Ellsworth Truth (sadly sold within a year) instead but it was an interesting day's riding for sure.
That'll be 7k please
It's a bold design, but it does remind me of the Whyte PRST1 and JW2 from the early 2000's great to see a company being bold with their designs though.
We are friendly with the Whyte team and very aware of the PRST bikes, which were way ahead of their time. We do some things differently, with a different axle path, shock leverage ratio, and no spherical bearings in the load path👍
Came here to say the same thing. I understand the concept about controlling the head tube angle and preventing brake dive, but the solution by Whyte was way overengineered. You could do the same thing with a more simple design...like taking the Girvin Vector design and use unequal parallelogram links so it slackens under compression. It would also fit more frames...
Loved my PRST-1
Get rid of some of the pivot points by unifying the top rear and bottom front arms into one beam and you'd have a modern version of the Whippet from 1885.
Had a Whyte PRST1 in 2001. Rode Moab on it. The spherical bearing was a weak point, it used to wear quickly as the sealing was poor. Later models had a hideous rubber boot over the top.
The bolt failed on mine whilst barrelling downhill, the bike effectively spilt in two and the lower part of the swing arm dug in the ground catapulting me over the bars and onto my face. Good times.
Awesome content again I learn a lot watching your channel
Thank you Seth your bring the best out of your rides
i stopped riding my mountain bike years ago. still subbed to your channel. always a pleasure, never a chore.
I remember when I saw this bike at Spider Mountain a few months ago. I was shocked. I immediately commented on your latest video (at the time), asking for you to review this bike. I’m so glad that you did because it’s such an interesting bike. Great video as always Seth, keep it up.
That was my bike at Spider. I take the Demo Bike there quite a bit. If you see it there again you HAVE TO give it a go.
Kudos to Structure for doing what's right.
Seth breaking all the bikes this week. Keep up the amazing content! I love it!
I found your channel while looking for ideas for a new bike and since then i have followed your content, I can’t wait to see what this odd bike has to offer.
Hey seth thats a crazy cool bike. Keep the bentville content coming its been great.
The DW link patent turns 20 in September... Really looking forward to seeing what happens in the next couple years with the rear suspension from smaller bike brands.
Only the first iteration is going to open up to the public soon. There have been 6 revisions to the DW-link since to accomodate the changes in wheel sizes, chainlines, chain deflection angles, axle standards, travel and recently, e-bike integration etc.
Hell yeah! I love different things and I would totally ride this thing.
I love that response regarding the fork. That's how we handle stuff over here too, and I'm glad to see other small, bold engineering firms doing stuff like that! :D
Kick ass, Structure Cycleworks!
Similar idea to the BMW R1250 GS (motorcycle) the R - GS range has been considered one of the best adventure style motorcycles due to the stability of a shock on the front for over the fork set up. Also isolating the steering from the suspension makes for a much smoother ride.
you spelled knock off wrong
@@ruquikthe GS has used telelever for a couple of decades….
I honestly couldnt care less about the water bottles. I never leave my house without a bladder in my backpack when i am out for activity. I think your aversion to backpacks partly comes from never finding the right one. I love my Camelbak KUDO Protector 10. It has a built in back protector, 1.5 L water bladder and enough storage for an extra jersey, some snacks and replacement parts/tools and i never notice it during a ride.
A water bottle on my frame is just nothing i put even a little bit of thought into. I would take it off if it came with one
Same, crazy to me that people still care about "wudder" bottle mounts.
Super cool! I love it when people think outside the box.
I really enjoyed that video. Great new format and your presenting has really come on!
Great customer service. That is worth the cost of the bike alone imo.
Dude, I've just recently found your channel and have been binge watching your content for the last three days. How refreshing it has been to find a super-passionate mtb enthusiast like yourself! Somebody who has dedicated their time into making video candy for us all 😊 Thankyou Sir! 🤟🏻
expect the front part protruding outwards, the design is just wow.
wonder if it can point backwards into the space there?
I'm a motorcyclist and its interesting seeing mountain bike designers try things that have been tried on motorcycles and did or didn't work out.
To me one of the most important things that talk good about a company is their support and follow up.
Of course in biking you put the equipment through its paces, and a failure might be serious, however I rather have a company who would respond good towards a failure than having a company who has few failures but never responds to anything that comes up or blames it on the user.
It really put a smile on my face to hear the good response from the company, and if more companies were like this, I feel all products would just be better
Seth I have an idea for a funny video : Build the Comfiest MTB ever , start with a full suspension bike then also add a suspension seat and even suspension spokes I can only think of these 4 suspension types if you know another one add it up 😅
1. Add those suspension handlebars.
2. Add Rev Grips.
3. Add a suspension stem.
4. (I have no idea where I saw it, but at one point I had seen) Add "suspension" pedals.
5. Hopefully not die. 🤣🤣
They should make a hardtail
With rigid fork!
Just wait. ;-)
A tribute to the old but awesome AMP parallel forks. Loved them, the only disadvantage of them was the limited total travel you can achieve.
I raced for a decade in the 90s and there were 2, ok maybe 3 front ends that did the same thing kinda. The girvin vector, amp b and (almost) the lawill leader. Ive ridden all 3 and still those 3 hold up to anything else ive ever ridden. The arc type travel as opposed to just up and down (telescopic) is truly incredible for maintaining your geometry when being compressed. Im currently on a fox 40 but even that pails in conparison to how a proper linkage front end rides. You have to ride one if you can. it will change how you view suspension ! I would love to give one of these a ride i bet it's lovely.
The linkage is called wtf 😂😂😂
This bike needs the raised reverse stem.
I had to search through the comments to see if anyone had posted what I was thinking.
We spent all of Sea Otter 2022 with one mounted to one of our SCW1 race bikes 😀
Hey Seth, loved the video as always. I think a lot of us would love a big Berm Peak jam, much like how you did at berm creek before you moved. Seems like it would be a great time!
Great video and showcase! I kind of want to see a full squish take on both this fork’s and the Jekyll’s rear-shock’s designs in one, that would be a sight to behold for sure.
Bmw type front suspension that is awesome , i was wondering when that was going to be implemented in a mtb
Yeah my BMW K1300S was similar, what a badass cruise missile that bike was
Glad to see there are other motorcycle riders enjoying seths content
Didn’t BMW call that tele-lever? I only tried it once, but that was on track. As I recall it, it was great for braking deep into corners.
@@larsnilsson77 Something like that, there was tele-lever, duo-lever, para-lever, as I recall one was front, one was rear, and maybe one was a generic term, though my memory may be way off haha
Really thought you were gonna open with it looking a little bit different, but riding kind of the same
Ooooh... missed opportunity!
That's bonkers. And we need more of that!
To quote Bixby Snyder, "I'd buy that for a dollar"
adendum: I'd love to ride something like this, it just needs to be affordable.
A bike doesn't necessarily need to look like a bike anymore, it just has to function as well or ultimately better than what we have now.
And what we have now is pretty well tuned & engineered so this new stuff has to go above & beyond.
We need significant improvements over the things we have now, or what we have now will do fine.
Wooow u think Homer Simpson designed this monstrosity!! Lol 😂
I can promise you right now I will never ride a bike like this or ride one of those linkage forks
I saw one of these at my LBS at Draper, UT and its definitely an eye catcher! I ended up getting a Rail 9.7 but I'll never forget seeing this bike for the first time!
Love the look of that fork🔥
I'll bet you $1,000 this does not become the new normal. Again.
Good review. Glad the company was cool about the fork being cracked. It kind of reminds me of the Girvan/Noleen fork I had 20 years ago. 🙂👍
Yeah that bike had been raced Pro DH and Pro Enduro under Mason DeKeyrel for a year and then it's been my Demo Bike for 2 1/2 years and it's been crashed more times than I can count at AngelFire, Trestle, Spider Mountain and All Over Arkansas. I inspect it but I guess carbon can only hit the ground So many times. It was a Pre-Production Chassis and there have been NO Failures in Production models. Since 1994 I myself have run the Girvin, AMP and Lawill linkage forks and always Loved them. When Spy photos of the Structure hit the internet in 2019 I emailed the company and tole them they HAD TO hire me. ;-)
As one with a love for strange front forks this is very cool design that as Seth said offers a different feel and the plushiest ride. I’m all for fork innovation. I just wish Cannondale could make a long travel 29er lefty so I can replace the lyrik I got on my moterra. My first mountain bike I ever bought with my own money was a full carbon FSI with a carbon lefty. I loved that bike.
I would love to ride this!!! Thanks for the video! Always awesome.
That's an insane looking bike!
I want that bike with the big riser stem you tried a month or two ago. That would make for quite an usual looking bike.
A fine piece of engineering. It would be nice to see a Dh variant but i understand what a huge outlay the design and tooling would cost, but the potential for steering geometry tuning is huge. A couple of flip chips in the linkages and frame would give a staggering variety of handling options.
Cool. I have a soft spot for unusual design, too. In my early MTB days I rode a Parkpre Pro 825 with a Lawwill Leader fork and I loved it.
Very interesting design, thanks for sharing Seth!
Always love your videos
I met a kid at Brumley Forest in Hillsborough NC yesterday wearing one of your jerseys. It was so cool.
Always cool to see alternate engineering ideas make it to production.
Always a great day when Seth posts
This + the raised reversed stem = match made in heaven 🤤🤩👌
I love it, and will have to wait a lonnnnng time till the day I can afford one!
Terrific insights once again. Thank you Seth.
Missed you in Bentonville but would have loved to put you on my Pinion drive Zerode Katipo.
Excellent. THANK YOU.
I’ve tried this guy before, and I really enjoyed it. Besides the biking public’s perspective and opinions on it, I wouldn’t mind owning one
Kind of wish that some big bike brands take notes and make their own version of it.
Speaking of demo, Silver Star in BC, Canada has some in their rental fleet.
Every few years these designs pop , one day it will work and change the way we ride.
In my 32 years riding and racing mountain bikes it is by far and away the Best Bike I have Ever ridden. It really is a Game Changer.
@@mattkock Hopefully this one scales well to production and is available in a small ! lol
If it looks right.... And it most certainly does to these eyes. Fantastic that rake actually INCREASES under front suspension compression.
Right on. Ya i rode that bike once myself. Off top, it is really good for enduro. Was awesome (smooth) and fast to me.
awesome vid like always.. thanx seth.. and that air bnb looks sweet.. :)
Pretty cool look, looks like a meatier version of the WHYTE bike for the late 90s
And yes, a lot of linkage bearings!
Hey I met the designer when I lived in Calgary. Great guy and very innovative. I took a bike for a ride around the block in an urban setting and it felt amazing. Would love to have one if it wasn't so far out of my price range.
I like it! Its art and function.
I have an scw1 and love it. Its what i would call "meaty" on the climbs, albiet very efficient. On the flip side it rips down hill, ive set more pr's on this than any bike, its insanely stable and predictable, i have crashed far less on it than any other bike, it simply crushes the downhill. On top of this, i have never had to service anything on the bike. Slapped a sprindex on the back to adjust the rear end in the fly and this thing is dialed. Only downside is yes not really good options for bottles but i carry a small pack anyway for tools and tubes etc.
What a nice birthday surprise!
“Deep in the small category” 🙌🙌🙌🤙
I got to ride one of these for a few minutes at Sea Otter, it was just a "parking lot test", but I remember it felt pretty good
i think it looks awesome honestly. would be nice to see this on some more entry level bikes and for the more advanced ones to get a better rear system but overall these seem great.
Awesome video dude!
Cool to see Seth not limited to diamondback tech, would love to see his take on high pivot and pinion gearbox
Reminds me of the Ribi linkage of the early 80s. These things have some serious advantages but the cost of putting them into production models means they always become just an interesting part of history soon after their release.
Revolutionary Ground-breaking bikes are a good thing and this proves it!! And I think it has a place in the mountain bike world!!
Interesting idea for front suspension👍🏽
You’re beautiful on a bike, bruh. You an ace. I wouldn’t have thought that seeing ya. Lol. Good channel. Cheers
😊
Great little review, and really nice to see great consumer support. One question I have is how would you carry it? It looks like that carry strap you reviewed recently would be needed!
this is the bike that got me into mountain biking when I demoed it
Everything can fail and/or have problems in the manufacturing process, the real beef is how the companies take care of the flawed products. For example I got tires that started developing cracks after just months of use - the seller didn't seem to care, so I contacted the manufacturer. They said there was something wrong with the heat cycle at manufacturing and just sent me new ones. So yes, I got a faulty product, but with that level of customer service I'll definitely give them a new try!
AMP Research did something similar back in the 90s and early 00s with the F1 through F4. Mercedes and Mongoose sold the bikes under their monikers as well. The forks also "reverse dove", though the travel was only 3.5 inches (90mm) for the F4 and 2.5 inches (65mm) for the others. The forks are actually pretty lightweight, though they were set up stiff as was popular for cross country suspension at the time. One big advantage over the SCW-1 is that the AMP forks could be mounted on basically any frame with the correct headtube.
I used to own a Proflex 957 this was one of the best frames and fork combo ever I thought
Love the Sam Pilgrim clip at the beginning. He’s the best.
Looks like a great ride.