Do you regret the Staccato XC?
Вставка
- Опубліковано 18 кві 2024
- Benstoeger.com
Benstoegerproshop.com for gear
PSTG.US for in person classes and digital coaching
Ben Stoeger books on Amazon: www.amazon.com/s?k=ben+stoege...
Podcast from pstg:
traininggrouplive-pstg.libsyn... - Спорт
Babe wake up, Ben dropped a 30minute Staccato video.
Thanks hun!
The D riding in the comment section is troubling.
It’s amazing how many guys are simps to these UA-camrs.
@@HWG-wm8lddid you just call ben stoeger a youtuber😂?
He's an Instsgram Instructor!!
@@mariusgage5471you’re so welcome 🥰
Over 26 minutes of Ben talking about the Staccato? This is a treat.
Ben is the realest OG. No BS, just an opinionated shooter who actually SHOOTS. And at a high level because..he actually SHOOTS.
I like the idea of you seeing how much duty ammo a staccato will eat without cleaning/lubing. Because if hot ammo will cycle the gun regardless of how dirty or dry it is, i guess the reliability issues arent as much of a concern for people who are carrying staccatos for defensive purposes.
Ben, thank you for doing this. Very few UA-camrs can truly test a gun and give it a review not for lack of trying, but a lack of true experience and expertise, due to your experience and intense training.
All we ever get is an average shooter that feeds one or 2000 rounds into a firearm and then tells us what they think.
On the other hand, with your experience, intense, personal training, and as an instructor.
Almost no UA-camrs can give us this type of real review.
Whether you like staccato or not this type of review from someone with your experience cannot be discounted.
Please consider doing this to other platforms so that we can get a real understanding from a truly experienced shooter and someone who truly pushes and uses guns intensely.
Thank you, if you do this to other platforms, I’ll be a subscriber and patron forever 😊
We all should just be grateful that you’re willing to share. Whether I or others agree or not.
Yes get the P. Don't pay for the rush, I ordered one last week and it'll be here within 30 days from ordering.
Unless you are ordering something unusual, they are in most gun stores around here.
"The brother in law ventilator special"😂😂😂😂😂
I can’t believe he actually said it lmao
Everytime I make a snarky comment about this on a P&S video it gets deleted! Weird!
@@Thelingererwhat happened?
@@S1deshowRob Chuck Pressburg once got extremely drunk and ND'd his carry gun into his brother's leg. He said it was an accident and blamed it on PTSD
I'm catching up on Ben's glorious Staccato journey. What did Chuck do to deserve you clowns bringing that up again? Shit happened almost 10 years ago at this point and from the looks of it, he's turned over a new leaf, got clean off alcohol entirely and has made strides to make amends for that shit. Not a lot of people in the gun industry or shooting communites have the fortitude to change, let alone change for the better.
I'd love to see the "duty ammo challenge"!
"you guys are nerds, I'm using rem oil" DEAD!😂
Thanks for thorough evaluation and feedback. Pretty balanced.
I have the whole staccato line up and the customer service is amazing and the guns all run and i love them
Lmao a guy running steel ammo through his Staccato. Homie spent all his budget on the XL
If the guys taking a ben stoeger class i think hes fine
Somewhat typical.
I've ran magtech steel and it's not given me problems. But yeah really.
Can a gun be duty rated but not be able to use steel/alum cased?
@@RANDY_MAR5H yes
Ben, thanks for this review. Nobody else is gonna be their direct or push it like this. Absolutely yes to both questions you asked about getting the P and doing an ammo assessment.
One of the best videos ever. Hearing your opinions against and with the comments is educational and entertaining. This was just fun. I , also, appreciate you being on this journey and sharing your thoughts as they are formed and evolve. This is high quality education and entertainment!
I like both ideas; P as backup, and duty ammo test to see when it chokes. Thanks for sharing your input.
Great Info would love to see you get a Staccato P also adds more data for your testing.
As someone who's not really interested in anything single-action (much less anything with a grip safety), I like observing Ben talk about the Staccato as a passive observer. It's interesting how polarizing the conversation around this platform is: competitions bros and cops who literally trust their lives to this thing vs. other people who have their own reasons for not liking or wanting one. For this reason, I think Ben doing the duty ammo test will carve in stone a few things surrounding the discussion of this gun.
I think the single action issue is blown out of proportion. AR’s are essentially a single action as well, minus the grip safety.
You can get grips without grip safeties btw.
Honesty !!! Great stuff B...
I would get the P as it is “imo” the best and most tried platform they have. Truly love your channel and your info. Thanks!
I’m just here for the content, I just like guns and shooting, the more I can see and learn about without having to spend my own money is fantastic. Regardless of what other people’s opinions are you had a good reason to make this purchase and also be able to make content out of it. Sounds like a win win to me and I’m enjoying the ride along. 🤝
Great comments. These guys going ape shit over guns is nuts.
Great video’s! I have an XC with over 10k rounds and it’s been great with no issues. I do clean and lube it every 500-1000 rounds. I enjoy shooting it more that my P. The P runs perfect also. I have not had any issues with either.
Great info, Ben. My first- and only- 9mm 1911 is a Dan Wesson Guardian. It’s got a 12 lb spring in it and has run like a sewing machine using- as I do with all my self loading pistols- Slide Glide as it’s lube. I primarily shoot Winchester white box GI ball 124 gr and Speer G2 147s and it eats them both equally well. I’d think 9 lbs kind of light for a hard use piece. Thanks for the tutorial on the XC.
Thanks Ben!
Staccato P as a backup would be awesome!
love the idea of the duty test clean and shoot and see what happens also would love for a comparison with the P model
Always a no Bull Shit Perspective, Thanks Ben for what you do and how you do it.
Testify Ben! Subbed. I think I've ordered before on your pro shop.
Yes duty ammo test and P for backup.
I would like to have a Staccato, but it is hard to justify it when my G17 has always worked, still works, etc.
I have both, they both have their merits
Just a matter of how much your money is worth to you!
The only reason to buy one is for a range toy, because they arent competitive in anything other than the dying limited division. Even an XC will get its ass kicked in Open.
@@mynameisjeff6988 limited optics, IDPA? I love competition but plenty of people done care about competition divisions either.
@@mynameisjeff6988well it’s not designed for competing…
Yes, i would love to see that duty ammo test!
I like the "duty challenge" sounds interesting. P as a back up is your call have fun either way.
17:20 that’s exactly what I did to my infinity I got last year. It ran 2k round of 124 500 rounds of underwood ammo. It ket running after that , so I cleaned it and the only wear I found was the titanium nitride on the lugs was a bit removed and the grooves on the DLC slide . That was the only down the minor wear on a 8k pistol .
Yes do the thing, do all the things
Was at PRGC and a guy with a staccato had two rounds from different manufacturers not fully chamber, both casings had the side blown out towards the head of the case with the second seizing the gun completely. That said, I've shot a few and generally enjoy them, they are popular enough that issues would be well known if they were as bad as people say (P320). Not to be hackneyed, but we live in a time where products are expected to work flawlessly from the box with little user input. The 1911/2011 design is not conducive to little user input, so people who have been shooting Glocks their whole lives and expect firearms to run for 20k rounds without cleaning/lube are bound to be disappointed or outright hate on the gun. That combined with Staccato's virality and status as a grail gun for many is bound to make it polarizing. For me, the Stealth Arms Platypus or Bul Armory TAC PRO will probably be a near future purchase.
Heard of your channel because of the staccato drama. Keep it going 😂
Side note i own a bul sas. Found that high viscosity lube keeps the gun running longer however have not gotten to your daily round count most likely
Duty ammo challenge for sure! As a “P” owner, would love to get your thoughts on it! Thank you for all the analysis, love the content 🤙
What’s the big deal? You haven’t ran “duty” ammo through your gun?
The duty ammo test sounds good. I personally have a Staccato XL with about 1500 rounds through it. Since I’m a big Glock guy I was sure what to use for lube. I call Staccato and they told me they recommend Lucas Extreme Gun Lube. I also have a habit of breaking down guns and cleaning them before I shoot them for the first time. I’m hope to shoot my first USPSA match with it. Let see how it goes. Thanks for all the videos.
What gun lube you use is no different than the motor oil you use. As long as it’s high quality, they all do their job. What matters is using it and cleaning your guns as needed. There is nothing wrong with cleaning a new gun, why wouldn’t you right
Definitely get a staccato p!
I am very interested in your take on the Staccato P for sure.
I went with the P over the XC, extra performance wasn't with the extra dollars. Love the P. Staccato put 10,000 rounds of steelcase wolf through it as a test and a thousand rounds defense ammo, they lubed it every 2500 rounds. There's a great video, it's about 3 minutes long. Look up staccato P stress test. P is the answer
Definitely do that thing you said, clean and oil and see how long it runs on duty ammo.
Hey Ben, You might be better served with a non comped gun like the P or a much different gun like the Alchemy Quantico Hicap. I only say that because ive had it for a short while and its my favorite 2011 by far. Thanks for all you do and teaching me alot of fundamentals over the years!
Yes get the P, your thoughts between the two I think will be interesting to many.
Ben, you should take a staccato ranch class and tell us what you think
Duty gun challenge for sure!!!
I use breakthrough battle born grease in my Staccato P and it C2.
They run great with the lubricant. I’ve yet to have a malfunction out of either with 4k down the pipe between the two of em.
Do the challenge!!
Most issues relating to steel case are from failure to lubricant the round. They come with a sticky preservative on them that if course can cause issues in tight tolerance firearms
Yup do the duty ammo thru XC test...makes sense to also get the P.
Ben, if I’m not mistaken they have a duty version of the XC. Where they lighten up some of the tolerances. Put a beefier spring in it. And a heavier trigger. Home boy over at QVO has a video on his.
I am curious, for sure do that.
Staccato XC does the "XC" stand for "Xtra Cash" as in does the same thing a $1100 dollar CZ Shadow 2 does for four thousand dollars of "Xtra" Cash"! I Like your video style Ben ! Cheers !
After listening to your experience with the shadow 2 and the XC, I think I'll go with the shadow 2. Average of 20,000 rounds through the cz with no issues is a bonus. And finding an optics ready cz for $1100 in my area is another bonus. Thanks for sharing your experience!
Shadow 2 rocks. I bought one about a month ago. 3k rounds so far no issues. Purrs like a kitten. So happy with it I cannot even describe the difference from stepping up from a Canik Rival. Don’t get me wrong the canik was a great gun and I still have it but really,,,, no comparison. You will be happy with the Shadiw 2 for sure.
@@user-fp6bw7ej2z thanks! Since I'm upgrading from an m&p I might have the same experience.
Atlas and every other 2011 manufacturer I have seen talk about lube for 2011s say no grease. Lots of them recommended something like Lucas Extreme Duty oil. Thicker than basic oil and stays better when the gun heats up.
i would be really interested in seeing some staccato p content
About 50 videos on UA-cam about it.
@@HWG-wm8ld im aware lol
I just ordered a C2 for carry, I’ll be interested to see how the smaller platform performs. I did get a comp on it. From what I’ve heard the smaller staccatos don’t have to light spring issues. It sounds like they are almost overdoing the light recoil measures on the XC due to it being a competition gun. It’s great that they have heavier springs available to bring it to a more duty style gun. I think they need to market it a little different so people know what to expect.
Duty gun challenge = yes!
A Staccato P makes sense for your circumstanc, although judging from mine, they're just not a good value and there is indeed a lot of hype surrounding them. It'd be fun to get your take tho.🙂
I would love to see you do a review on the staccato p I'm stuck between that and the xc. My main question is if the p is more reliable and if the slide runs faster
I’ve had a P since 2020, it’s perfectly reliable, doesn’t need to be run wet or cleaned often. I had some older 170mm (26 round) mags that were finicky but Staccato replaced them with Gen3s, I bought an Atlas version as well (holds an extra round and no slide lock), now all of the 14 mags (5 170mm, 8 140mm, and 1 136mm- 17 rounder) I have now are reliable. Call me a fanboy, it cycles quickly, can be shot fast, I can get first round hits on mid targets (50-75) and can repeatedly hit the 100 yard IPSC once I know my dope. I can’t say that about my highly modified plastic striker pistol, it ran fine, never gave me the confidence this one has. I’ve said it before, if I’m shooting a match well, I might shoot both of my competition pistols similarly, if I’m having an off day, I am much better with my 2011. I will get more of them with time, probably starting with the new 4” C with the 15 round grip when they come out this summer, even though it uses the new mags.
13:24 “…pouring vodka on them and removing a head from a chicken…” 😂😂😂
The problem with the Roland Special guns is that the Glock barrel has pretty extreme tilt compared to a 1911/2011 which means a super effective comp will affect slide velocity more. When you counter that by going to a lighter recoil spring, you then have issues with the recoil spring struggling to overcome the striker spring. I prefer a less effective comp to increase reliability; my CZ P10 C with Parker Mountain Machine comp is as close to 100% reliable as I have found with any mid sized comped pistol. We have seen a surge in the comped slides (PSA Dagger Micro, various SIG comped pistols) because those comps have minimal impact on the natural barrel movement during cycling. The comped barrel being easily removed on a 1911/2011 is a huge added benefit over the Roland Specials.
2 plus’s years with my XC and 9lb spring. I’m on my third extractor if you run the gun dry to long like I did just to see and the gun never gave up the extractors tapped out.
For anyone that perhaps knows
Ben read off a comment about tolerances being tighter on the xc over p. I'm not tracking any staccato being handfit so the tolerance should be roughly the same between the two models
Mpa ds9 now at 3500 rounds with very little oil and no issues just saying
I met a fed cop who used one. Shot great and had a great trigger. But even he said his CZ Shadow shot a bit better.
He shoots the CZ better.
7lb recoil springs for me, 38sc tho.
I have a feeling the extractor is going to be the part that gives you the most trouble in the round count test. Things just get carbon filled. Eventually you might have to mess with its tension, but it’s not hard to screw with at the range.
You need to check the amount of lead and carbon buildup in the comp, you will have a reduced volume pretty fast. I m down 12k rounds and have lost almost half of the volume due to lead buildup
I also don’t see the issue with having to take care of your gun anyways. Coming from the world of hunting I clean my firearms after every use, it improves longevity and performance and it’s far easier to maintain them regularly than wait for problems and then have to deal with a total mess. Most people who are complaining about this probably hardly shoot their guns anyways. People just have to have something to bitch about lol
I concur
staccato P!!!! and also interested in the duty ammo test please 🙏
I have 1000 rounds through my Staccato P. These guns can be more picky with ammo selection. For example, my work currently has cases of 147 grain winclean, which is super dirty and notorious for causing issues. Some Ps can’t even go through a whole mag shooting this stuff without a malfunction. I have about 600 rounds of it through mine with two malfunctions, both failure to go into battery, barely, but still failure. Everything else has been 100% reliable. Lube mine after every range trip with lucas oil. This will be my new duty, conceal carry gun .
I'd recommend getting a P or a C2.
I started with a Prodigy, and after I fucked with it to the point of making it unreliable I had a gunsmith work it over and now it's spooky good. I may get a BUL or a Stacc down the road for carry.
Even though the primarily purpose of a comp is combat muzzle rise, it still produces some braking force. This is directly opposed to the force that operates the action, that action being a short recoil system. As such, a comped gun will always have a smaller operating envelope than the same gun with no comp. Always.
I love my Staccatos. Have the P and a C2. I have had zero issues with both. Train and shoot a lot. Also active duty, and I’ll choose Staccato over an Sig M17/M18 any day. Sure a Glock maybe more reliable, but the Staccatos just shoot better. IMO worth the money. But only if you shoot a ton and willing to make the investment. You can shoot well with a Glock as well, they just don’t shoot as nice.
I have a C2 and the XC, I don't find enough differences to go for a P, same as the CS, better for you to buy a C2 which can also be used as your IWB carry. Or go the Wilson Combat route with the EDX or SFX's, I also have one and it shoots very reliably.
Now you should try a BUL Armory!
For competition yeah to save life and love ones animals included Glock.
I actually started watching your UA-cam channel when I got my first Glock. I’m not a pro comp shooter but I don’t want to put down a sissy gun. It kinda like photography if you want to best picture get a Canon L lense which cost more then the camera itself in most cases. But yeah I get the faster and trying to win thing. Best Regards
I’m not sold on 2011’s as duty guns . I like the idea of keeping it simple with a stock quality striker and training a lot.
The stacattos is an impressive thing, it's always a trade off with reliability vs performance.
Honestly though clean it lube it and go from there problem solved.
The big game changer is magazine cost.
I'd love to see a platypus in Ben's hands for a review compared to the xc or p
My C2 has only had 1 failure, and it was just that it didn't want to feed sig vcrown. Ive used oil and grease, different brands, and that C2 just runs and runs.
The XL is very underrated. I have an Xl and XC. The Xl is close to the XC but no comp. The XL might allow you into a lower division than the XC. I recommend the XL.
You might note that a 2011 can't be used in USPSA CO. The P is great with a dot for USPSA LO.
I’d like to see the Stealth Arms Platypus. Close enough in size and concept to the Staccato P, but takes Glock mags, is very customizable, and is less expensive
Yes to the duty ammo test/ and get a staccato P.
Id be interested to see what you think of the Tisas/MAC guns if you are up to it as i think that is way more affordable for most shooters
I am interested in the duty ammo test. How many rounds to failure. Once you pick up a P and test that out, I’d also like to see how long the XC can go with no shooting (oil drying up) and then failing. Can it sit in a safe for two weeks? A month? 3 months? And still run when you pick it up again (understanding you lubed it before it just sits in there for a time, since we already understand it likes to be wet).
I bought an oracle defense 2311 compact pro. It's had a lot of problems feeding. I'm of the opinion that I won't carry it at this point.
Would love to see the results of the duty ammo challenge. I buy 124gr HST'S for $550 per case. You can catch 124gr Speer gold dot for $499 per case. But my experience has been every platform I own reliably feeds and runs the HST's. The feel and minimal P.O.I shift of 124gr HST'S to my range ammo has made the HST'S my go-to duty round for all my pistols and PCC'S. Therefore, I would love to see the results of 2Krds of HST'S through the Stacato XC, since they do advertise it as a duty gun.
I would love it if you tried out the stealth arms platypus 2011. They run glock mags, and in curious if they can touch staccato quality being that they are only about $2k, or less.
Im running teflon 140mm STI mags. No issues after 1800 rounds
Yes 100% get a P. I have a P with a cadre comp and would like to hear your opinion on the p vs xc. I've never had a chance to touch an xc
Im sure the XC is amazing but as a civilian concealed carrier, I went w the CS. My Glocks are all collecting dust because none shoot as well as a Staccato. Yes I dropped $3400 on the CS with all the optics, lights and holsters involved. #worthit. I run it wet and it is flawless w 3000 rounds thru it.
I completely agree staccato should not have marketed the gun as a duty gun. I also as a person who runs a 7# spring in my 2011 open gun I agree 7# out of the box was silly it should have had 8,9 or 10. I will also say the nerdy oil think is legit. Some oils are just slipperier than others and stick around better . And in my experience rem oil seems to burn off or something but it doesn’t stick around good as good. I followed the advice of Alta’s gun works and I lube mine with 50w motor oil and it is a noticeable difference. I can and have put 2,500 through mine in a single day testing, and it continued to eat, mine is also ported so the carbon build up and oil burn off is more exaggerated . All and all I think there is a performance gain to be had from the platform and it simply comes down to wether or not you are willing ti accept the trade of for maintenance intervals. I’m the guy that will oil my guns after a few weeks even if it just sat in the safe. My open 2011 is at the 30k round mark now and other than 2 failures ti feed from off brand mags that needed tuning. Mine continues to run match after match after match.
Yes!!!!!!! Duty gun challenge 👍
I wouldn't mind getting the Staccato P for Limited Optics, but I gotta wait for Lucas to release WML compatible Ragnarok for it lol.
wow...my comment got mentioned! 😳Ben actually reads the comment!? 🤣 Get the "P" - I carried a P for years (STI TAC). Ya in .40 but that was required at the time. One in 9 with the right ammo would be a great set up on PD "Teams". 😎
I know there's already been a million comments saying this, but my Staccato P has ran great when lubed; just like my 11.5" ar15 with suppressor. So the guys complaining "YOU HAVE TO LUBE A DUTY PISTOL AFTER 500 ROUNDS?"
1. That's not exactly true, but at worst when are you going to shoot a duty pistol 500 rounds straight without having an opportunity to lube it?
2. That's more or less what's needed for suppressed short barreled AR15s, so why aren't you sperging out about that?
On the Staccato P I just add a few drops of lucas extreme duty gun oil when the slide feels a bit sluggish. Maybe every 750ish rounds?
On the AR15, same thing, every 500 to 750 rounds
I'd still like to see your impressions of something like a MPA DS9 or Atlas in either aluminum or steel grip . No Comp LO-legal
Buying another Staccato after the first one isn’t running well sounds insane to me lol. I’d sell it and try a different manufacturer like Atlas, etc.
Combine the two options and do a duty challenge with the staccato P
Yes please do the duty ammo challenge
What are you expecting to be different?
I load 147gr BrassMonkey coated in my P, 3.3gr of N320. Run the same in my 19, 17 & PCC…
Do duty ammo. Like self defense or at least 1300 fps. I bet the comp will do more and curious how it runs to what rd count