The Philosophy of Jesus - ft.
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- Опубліковано 13 тра 2024
- Jesus of Nazareth is arguably the most resolving, present character in western civilization's history. Yet, he is often relished as just that, a character. Away from immanent materiality. A very immanence seen within the Cynic school of thought in Ancient Greece. From here, we see Jesus as not a mere character, but something of lived experience and history.
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Timestamp:
Intro 0:00
Humanity, History and Lived Experience: 2:55
Jesus and Cynic Philosophy: 11:55
Ascetic Life-Affirmation and the Demand of Everything: 15:44
A Message: 19:48
I think an important lesson we can take from Jesus is the importance of forgiveness to any radical movement. We can't at once demand transformation, atonement for past injustices, and adapting our values to a better world if we don't also believe in forgiveness and mercy as basic values
this is really beautiful and simple, I love your essays so much. speaking as a current biblical theist and Hegelian it's so cool to see this type of analysis from materialist/hegelian/dialectical standpoints! keep up the incredible work and maybe do a video on GK Chesterton lmao
As someone who was raised Christian and grew up in organized religion and then ended up becoming disillusioned by the rampant hypocrisy and weaponization against minorities. (Mostly LGBT groups)
I still found myself fascinated by Jesus as an icon and philosophy. I was always dumbstruck how one man who valued community and loving of the undesirable through his recorded words was then twisted and used by organizations to be used as a rallying cry for the exact opposite of his teachings.
So watching this video talk about Jesus through historical and philosophical lenses was honestly a treat.
Neither the Father nor the Son condone LGBT(etc.). He loves the people, but hates the sin (this sentence applies to everyone, lgbt or not)
It is always a pleasure to see a notification from you. Yet again another great video.
Your formulation of these things was just the right thing for me a couple of weeks into this year
It was just perfect
Thanks
this is gangsta
Haha, appreciate the love.
“Even a nonbeliever might find it useful to model himself after God... very useful, in fact.”
- Cormac McCarthy, No Country For Old Men
Nowhere is that more true when it comes to an incarnation of God than Jesus Christ himself. Whether one believes he is God or not, one cannot deny that his philosophy is extremely useful as a guide to morals and ethics and this video in particular really does sum up Cormac McCarthy’s quote listed above, absolutely perfectly.
You never disappoint, epoch. Thanks for a great year of content. Much love and happy holidays ❤️
Hey, thanks so much friend. Very glad you enjoyed! Happy holidays to you!
A masterpiece of video! Great work, dude!
Will definitely be looking at more laborkyle vids in the future.
As a Christian myself, I welcome all (specifically philosophical) confrontations with the life and thought of our Saviour. There’s no Biblical, theological, or even logical reason to think of Jesus Christ as an abstract ideal or someone somehow outside the historical moment he was born into. Also, thank you for emphasizing the emptiness of a lot of new atheist rhetoric :)
Occasionally good sermons at mass will explain the week's Gospel text (and/or OT and Epsitle texts) within the historical context as well. I've encountered this from time to time in various denominations.
Do you think that there was really a God walking around a place where we called Palestine 2000 years ago?
@@ziqizhu7364 yes.
The truth is not a “what”. It’s a “who”
@@ClayB05 Truth is a product of an exegetic standard is it not?
Heya, this has to be your best video yet. Keep up the good work.
Interestingly, before writing Being and Time, Heidegger was working on a thesis that was a historical deconstruction of Jesus to reach the originality of Jesus, similar to one of the goals he intended to work out in Being and Time, which was to deconstruct the history of metaphysics to reach the question of the meaning of Being and re-establish it as the important but vexing philosophical mystery it was for the ancient Greeks. Just as he intended to work backwards through Kant, Descartes, Scholastic philosophy, Aristotle and the presocratics, he planned to work backards through Martin Luther, St. Augustine, etc.
this is so so so so good thank you 🥺
Very interesting. There is much here I have not grasped but I will listen more and more to it. I feel in love with Jesus when hearing the gospels as a child and reading them more assiduously in my 20s. That love has grown and grown.
SO HYPE FOR THIS
Hype to finally release this. A very unique topic for this channel and am very happy to finally share it with you guys!
Thank you for this wonderful video - interestingly I watched it on Christmas Day. Your explanation has helped clarify why, I whenever I reflect on the Love that is implied in Jesus's philosophy as you've stated here, I genuinely experience a moment of heavenly joy ('kingdom of heaven?). Moving forward into 2022 I shall more mindfully apply this philosophy of ascetic Love within all the relational and institutional contexts I am involved with. My new tagline: 'I believe in Christ but I ain't no Christian'.
Nietzsche? Dialectics? Jesus? Are you guys stalking my search history?
I have recently started delving into the gospels, cool to see this video pop up!
This morning I thought it was weird I hadn't seen you on my homepage, so I came to your channel. I'm really happy I did. As a Christian leftist, you've put into words what I've been struggling to. This was incredible. Thank you for what you do.
VH
We
I loved it, man, and I’ll definitely look up Kyle’s work too!
For a couple years now, I’ve called myself a sort of, “anti-orthodox”, “Kierkegaardian”, and/or “heretical” Christian, and I don’t even like the word “Christian” bc of all the baggage attached to it, but Christ follower of Jesus freak don’t flow quite as nicely. I just started reading Nietzsche, as one of my Christmas gifts was a box set of his work, and I’ve been meaning to actually get around to reading the actual source material for a while (though I’m pretty familiar with much of his work via lectures). I get the feeling that “Nietzschean” might be the next descriptor that I add, as the more I learn about Nietzsche’s views regarding Christianity, the less I see him as unfairly critical, and the more I see his position as being rather similar to Kierkegaard’s, in that it’s not an attack on the teachings of Jesus of Nazareth, so much as it is very necessary criticism of Christianity (but again, I’ve not dug into his writings very deeply, so maybe I won’t think this in a couple months).
I’m someone who grew up in an evangelical, fundamentalist setting, later became a “new atheist” (I LOVED the “Four Horsemen”, as cringe as that is.. though Dawkins and Harris are the more embarrassing of the four, I agree), then after a few years of studying Christian history, getting into Kierkegaard, liberation theology and radical Christian history, and just living a lot more, I found myself drawn back, not to the church, but specifically just to Jesus and his early followers (pre-Constantine, and so on), and I eventually became a believer once again. Kierkegaard’s conception of faith had a massive impact on me in that regard, to the extent that I have to give most of the credit to ya boy, Søren, and to reading early Christian history (NT scholar/historian Bart Erhman has some great lectures and books on the early Christians).
Anyway, I wanted to say, as someone who’s seen many sides of all this, been a fundamentalist, now is a radical/anti-orthodox Christian Marxist, and has been a hardcore anti-theist/New Atheist, that the Sam Harris, et al, criticism of Christianity is so convincing to so many people because it’s actually not that bad at all of an attack on fundamentalist Christianity, especially the kind of modern, American brand that is extremely reactionary. In fact, I’d almost recommend that stuff to anyone who is a fundamentalist, just because the best of it really does eviscerate the fundamentalist worldview, specifically the way it’s based on a literal interpretation of the Bible (typically KJV). As far as an attack on Christianity period, or at least Christian faith, those works are pretty trash, and confuse modern fundamentalism as the one, true, authentic version of Christianity, but the reality is that it’s simply the easiest version to deconstruct and do away with. (That said, one can also just read Paine’s “The Age of Reason”, and get a pretty great attack on fundamentalist Christianity from his deist perspective, and skip a lot of nonsense with someone like Harris imo.) Faith, however, is a much more complex matter, it’s not an epistemic approach, and so their attempts to use logic and empirical science against Christian faith, or any faith, are definitionally nonsensical, because those tools have nothing to do with that which transcends material reality.
Anyway, this is a mess, and a lot of it is TMI, and I don’t know why I’m actually going to post all this, but there it is. Again, this was really great, as is all of your work, and I look forward to checking out Kyle’s too! ✊✌️❤️🏴♾
Not a mess at all my friend. Read through it all! Thanks for the comment, dude! Definitely do check out Kyle. Makes stellar videos.
I think your progression into and out of established theism is a bit more common than initially expected.
@@epochphilosophy sorry, I didn’t see this reply before. I subbed to his channel, but yes, I still need to check it out. I’ll add some of his vids to my playlists.
And yeah, I’ve come to understand my path out, then back in, isn’t so unusual. Or at least “a path” back in isn’t so unusual, idk how many people find their way back in quote how I did, but it really can’t be overstated how important Kierkegaard was to that process. Strangely enough, the work of historian and New Testament scholar, Bart Erhman, was both integral to my exit, and then later to my re-entrance, but really it wouldn’t have happened without Johannes… ✌️
I used to be a mega neckbeard "new atheist" type
Now, I'm more so agnostic, but I have a lot of respect for the original philosophies and teachings of Jesus.
Cause as it turns out, contrary to what today's institutionalized religions and prosperity gospel ideologues peddle, Comrade Christ was actually based as fuck. 👌
And you can see the real uplifting aspects of his philosophy through figures like Mr. Rogers, or Câmara.
There never was a jesus. He was a very effective invention by the MLM Church.
Go and read the bible first instead of listening to these frauds moonlighting as philosophers.
I am a Christian and sadly my religion is often abused for personal gain. The true christianity is often burried under layers of culture. I wish you the best and hope you become saved
@@huebuckle8198 It's sad, but the actual religion and it's philosophy can't be blamed for what the ruling classes twisted it into, so one should never feel bad for being a proper Christian because of what the institutions do!
Hopefully we'll all be saved.
@@thevoiceofthelost Through grace alone
If you seek him, he will reveal himself to you. He will if you are ready to receive or pay attention. When he does, it will be a pivotal moment in your life. You can live your life for him and what you were put here for, or go on trying to be the director of your life. As a former atheist, i cqn assure you your lack of belief has very little bearing on the battle for your soul...I promise you that.
This is dope!
As a philosopher, this video moved my life into a whole new beautiful perspective of everything being connected and one
As a philosopher, you ought to evaluate content more critically and show more discernment.
as a filipino i feel the need to copy paste these new big english words im hearing and reading into google translate so i can understand
Have u engaged with the works of Rene Girard ? I think you will like it . He tries to show how Christianity is anthropologically true and tells us something about the nature of man that other myths( which are often used in atheist circles to show the similarities between Christianity and other previous pagan myths ) do not .
I have not! Perhaps something I should do!
(Among the long list of must reads I have lol.)
Thanks for this reference. Similarly, Prof. John Vervaeke's "Awakening From the Meaning Crisis" video series shows the wisdom of Jesus within the anthropological time-line of humanity's drive for meaning-making, or for cultivating meaning and, by extension, for cultivating wisdom.
@@epochphilosophy if only for the theory of mimetic desire, he is worth looking into.
Great references, great integration, great video.
Excellent take on Dawkins and Harris
I majored in religious studies and it's also interesting to point out that bread and wine are important symbols to both the Greeks and the people in the near east of the time. Wine has been associated with Divinity for a long time, Moses tends to a vineyard after the flood, and is found naked by his sons while drunk, this implies that divinity was accessed through wine because it threw off his knowledge of his own nakedness, which was one of the first signs of sin in the garden of Eden (they realized they were naked). In Greece this tradition can be seen in the early Dionysian cults, where Dionysus is embodied in wine, and they would drink to attain his essence.
Bread as a symbol is almost universal in near eastern mythology, especially in the myths of Sumer and the Babylonians. Jesus was born in Bethlehem which is an ancient Canaanite town whose name literally means 'house of bread. The connection between bread and war and gods probably goes way way back.
If we're historicizing Jesus, a way to view his incorporation of bread and wine, could be seen as cross cultural synthesis of greek symbols and near eastern symbols.
nice vid! i love jesus
This is EXACTLY where my brain has been lately as I've started to read more gnostic texts.
Nice! Glad to hear it.
If so, you may appreciate Prof. John Vervaeke's lecture series on UA-cam called "Awakening From the Meaning Crisis."
@@philmessina476 thank you for signposting Vervaeke's series. I've been bingeing for the past couple of days - on #19 now!🙏
Gnosticism is a foolish philosophy. The body and the world are not intrinsically evil, and the body any soul are one single entity. Wisdom lies in learning to live as a unified whole, not looking for some utopian dissolution that liberates one from the other.
Are you kidding me? Gnosticism is satanism. Don't listen to that weasel!
thank you
Nice video
Amazing video! Just one thing, beatus has nothing to do etymologically with beautiful but with happy: beatus = “made happy”
Thanks!
Thanks so much!
great job, dude... we nend more theory vids like yours
You should also try the philosophy of the buddha
Thank you
More than welcome, dude!
A Feast of Understanding where all Is Fairness
As an atheist, former Christian, this is where I reside. The vocation and philosophy of Jesus, without the worlds' religion, is a salve for the human creature. I love my Christian brothers and sisters! Merry Christmas, continued success and safety. May your 'hedge' be shored up by the might of Agape Love.
Any source material for this video?
Jesus was/is my main man.
Yeshua is based. So glad his ideas contributed to the culture of Kerala about 1970 years ago!
Just got into your channel and watched your Dont Look Up video so I was interested in watching more. I gotta say tho this video seems to be focused for christian viewers and ex christians, but its a total miss for me as im neither.
..... You sure you watched the video? I'm not even a Christian myself.
John 17:20-26 insists upon direct experience of union...
What the philosophers called henosis...
This is ignored by traditions.
1:39 I wanna make a comment on this because I do think it is important to understand. The reason Jesus is portrayed as a European man in the West is that the Bible doesn't contain a detailed description of his face, this is important to know because Christianity is being spread and icons of Jesus are created, he is created in the image of the people making the icons. You can look around the world and see images of Jesus and the Virgin Mary as different people not resembling what a Jew would have looked like in Roman Palestine and in the 1st century. Ethiopia, Japan, Italy, and Kazakhstan to name a few places have drawings of the Virgin Mary and Jesus resembling the native people of the land. I don't think there is anything wrong with wanting to portray Jesus as resembling you and your people. But it should still be acknowledged what he would have actually looked like.
That being said there are definitely cases where the portrayal of Jesus is deliberately European and the idea of him not resembling a European is shunned.
Nietsche had always said two or three things that I could agree with, and my favorite President has always been Thomas Jefferson, I never hated anyone!
U can imagine past present and future as the 3 dimensions of space and make the individual as time travelers 🦍❤️⌚🌊
I was raised Catholic but rejected the divinity of Jesus and the existence of God very early in childhood, along with the hierarchy of the church. But I was always interested in philosophy, and to this day I believe hard in the existence of Jesus as a historical figure and philosopher. His teachings on ethics are fucking based, and I live by them, better than most self-identified Christians, I suspect (Nietzsche knows what I'm talkin' about haha)
[replying with my recent general comment]
Alright but... According to the bible the christian god encourages rape, murder in general, genocide, and child murder and abuse. It's very convenient to say Jesus got mischaracterized, but in the accounts available he was on board with and advised obedience to a despicable, undetectable, and absent monster of a deity. Why would a non morally deformed person worship this supposed invisible entity? It was a different time? That's not good enough.
I do admire the sentiment that an exceptional person should seek not to be served but to serve, as well as principles of nonviolence, but it is deeply dishonest to ignore the larger part of scripture.
📛
@@Addeladle-St-James My complete rejection of the faith ought to indicate that the larger part of the scripture did not sit well with me haha. Funnily enough since writing that comment I've learned some stuff, and it seems the historical evidence for Jesus as a real person is actually incredibly weak. The ethics in the New Testament specifically however are still reasonably based, if a tad bootlickery for my radical taste ;)
@@Lincoln_BioIm an atheist but believe in the historicity of jesus, not because of evidence but because of deduction. There is no reason to think he did not exist, in fact if he did not exist, that would pose a hell lot of problems to solve.
I was thinking about this a couple of days ago after seeing the first episode of 'Forbidden America' with Louis Theroux. He was interviewing right wing extremist who claimed to be Christians (or rather abused the term some kind of token for their moral legitimacy). At the same time they were, just to give an example, making very graphic, extended "jokes" about the anal rape of a female conservative blogger. They profiled theirselves on social media with the most racist, mysogenistic, white Supreme, hate speach I ever heard. If Jezus would (hypothetically) see them, not only would he weep, he would probably get an acute existential crisis over having died for our sins, only to see self righteous sinners waving a flag with his name on it. Strange how people can identify, profile and even justify themselves with a religion and yet actively promote a contradictory set of beliefs & practices...
[Even more strange (or to be honest: frightening) how these kind of influencers seem to be gaining so much traction that the phenomenon has outgrown the fringe...]
Hosea 13
4 Yet I Am YHWH thy Elohiym from the land of Egypt, and thou shalt know no god but Me: *for there is no saviour beside Me.*
I loved the Don’t Look Up video - very good - but this one starts out wrong in my view. I don’t think people have found actual historical evidence that Jesus existed. I read the Christian scriptures and for me it is about the internal work - the kingdom of heaven is within - to be born again - to turn completely around - to find the living waters, to let thine eye be single and all that. I think this story was created as a teaching and even if Jesus existed it is really our own journey - we are all sons of the father. Anyway thank you.
A couple comments saying this, so figure I'd clarify my view and the base point behind the video. There's no doubt that little evidence is available that (if at all) Jesus *actually* existed. No doubt. My time in academia was very often spent in history departments, thus, this was a somewhat common topic. Especially in classes that went over the classics.
I think it's irrelevant whether Jesus *actually* existed inmost senses; for him to exist as a *material* historical figure. That, the result and consequence was so radically material, it seems wrong to think of Jesus as merely a quasi-spiritual figure. As you can tell, I don't care too much for epistemics. Language nullifies a ton of analytic correct vs. incorrect dynamics as is.
Your comment was by far the kindest, so I am happy to reply! Thanks for the praise and happy you are here! Figured it would make sense to clarify my position/intent here.
@@epochphilosophy thanks - I understand that point of view - my guess is that we can thank the Romans for making Jesus “material”.
*historicity
Supreme.
There is no doubt on this, Jesus the man was sent by the heavens
Second time watching
Your stuff is beyond me.
something
check out anthroposophy bro
Jesus will triumph! He has and will! He triumph over Augustus, and that's all anyone needs to know! When you write you reinforce what you know, and sometimes, when learning teaching also helps you to better know, Jesus didn't write because he knew! Observations are of the universe, therefore, the world, Philosophy is metaphysical understanding of the physical and other. The understanding is separate from the process of contemplation, the electrobiochemistry. Knowledge is stored in the brain, but understanding not limited to the observations of the physical universe, so it arguably is something of something beyond the universe. It would be the way we would cross dimensional space. The string theorist can truly imagine each of the various dimensional spaces and the multiverse. There are religious and secular agreement that there is the mind's ability to travel to an abstract space which is not derived from an observation of the universe. We haven't left the universe, our mind has! I can have an artist represent this truth by commissioning someone to paint three Jesus in three alternate worlds. A lot is possible when everything was stored in a size of a who lent, and the size of everything now, when put on a plane of infinity, is but the size of a who lent!
In 2019 I saw Jesus face on the clouds, I took his picture and I always use it on my logo, my faith is now 100% praise the Lord
I do like philosophy of Jesus though i am completely tired listened to these ignorant and fanatic christians who tell me that jesus is only son of god and solution of all my problems which jesus is not but Still i saw him as an Icon as i See Krishna,Rama and Buddha who were icons in there own rights but not much known to western world
Damn shame that, of the millions who worship Jesus, so few, almost none, remember Jesus or follow Jesus or even abide by the one commandment he made.
@@lepidoptera9337 John 13:34-35. I think you'll be doing good just to make an attempt to know what you're talking about before you speak.
The earliest gospel was written decades after the supposed death of jesus (40 years at least), if he indeed existed, in a language jesus did not speak, by a person or persons who never encountered him, far away from that backwater. It's absurd to imagine you get anything like a meaningful quotation in this way.
Christianity is based on coercion, largely of young children. You are made to believe you are ill and the only cure is faith in invisible forces. If you do not submit you will suffer unimaginable, neverending torture from which there can be no rescue or escape, an even more toxic pressure tactic than "join or die". This is not something that you would find compelling in any other context.
[replying with my recent general comment]
Alright but... According to the bible the christian god encourages rape, murder in general, genocide, as well as child murder and abuse. It's very convenient to say Jesus got mischaracterized, but in the accounts available he was on board with and advised obedience to a despicable, undetectable, and absent monster of a deity. Why would a non morally deformed person worship this supposed invisible entity? It was a different time? That's not good enough.
I do admire the sentiment that an exceptional person should seek not to be served but to serve, as well as principles of nonviolence, but it is deeply dishonest to ignore the larger part of scripture.
@@Addeladle-St-James John 13:34-35. I think you'll be doing good just to make an attempt to know what you're talking about before you speak.
Although I’d say that “relation” is inherently abstract and immaterial.
I still don't get how he was cynical. Also, did this use to have comments disallowed? How else would it have 17k views and 0 Comments?
@Hans Vader change sort?
Marxist rabbi Jesus, the Hegelian opposite of rabbi Mordechai Marx.
“I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ.”
― Mahatma Gandhi
“Between the Christianity of this land and the Christianity of Christ, I recognize the widest possible difference-so wide that to receive the one as good, pure, and holy, is of necessity to reject the other as bad, corrupt, and wicked. To be the friend of the one is of necessity to be the enemy of the other. I love the pure, peaceable, and impartial Christianity of Christ; I therefore hate the corrupt, slave-holding, women-whipping, cradle-plundering, partial and hypocritical Christianity of this land. Indeed, I can see no reason but the most deceitful one for calling the religion of this land Christianity…”
― Frederick Douglass
Jesus said, "I am the light that is over all things. I am all: from me all came forth, and to me all attained.
Split a piece of wood; I am there.
Lift up the stone, and you will find me there."
- The Gospel of Thomas, verse 77 (Nag Hammadi Scrolls, ~100 CE)
I don't think drinking blood and eating flesh is something Jesus would have said. He was like other Prophets an extremely kind hearted person, that would have been repulsed from such statements. I think this was added by someone else.
Its a metaphor. About how his body was broken during the crucifixion
I've been binging your stuff so I'm coming to this one late. I've loved everything else.
This felt incoherent to me. You jumped all over the place with little to no examples.
Plus I felt a real contradiction in your venomous attack on the new atheists, contrasted with an agreement with Nietzsche later, that Christianity has completely failed to live up to Jesus's philosophy.
So.. I guess you just don't like them personally?
Jesus H. Christ was a horse
Feels like the video lacks structure honestly. Would’ve been better if the first part looked at what he did/preached, then make the connection to cynicism, and then analyze it. Here it just feels jumbled.
I also didn’t really get the “Jesus affirmed life” idea. He definitely thought social injustices were a problem, but I don’t see how that is automatically life-affirming. Especially in the Nietzschean sense.
Believed the kingdom of God was within you rather than coming from beyond which means to affirm life in the here and now rather than view life as preparation for something else. Also taught not to resent etc. Definitely still a decadent, but Nietzsche saw Jesus as a sort of free spirit.
@@socialswine3656 I don’t see how believing in the innerness of God’s kingdom is a sign of affirming physical existence.
Certainly, a lot of Christian’s didn’t understand it that way given that texts like the Gospel of Thomas were at least mildly well circulated. And that saying is included within it, but in a context of quotes that are definitely focused on transcendence.
@@2tehnik So this is where it gets a little strange but N. did not trust the Gospels so instead of relying on them he instead tried to psychologise a redeemer figure in general. N. believes Jesus was an imminentist and suggests the focus on transcendence is a reassertion of the Jewish/ priestly instinct by the first community. To N. "There was only one true Christian and he died on the cross". Idk I'm explaining this badly. You should read antichrist though. N. explains this there. Super interesting and probably his easiest book.
I disagree here new atheism do have some problems within but there critique of Christianity is fair because during colonialism into new world and asia europeans forcefully impose Christianity on native people who at that time are completely unfamiliar with Christianity and many facets of christianity don't align with there bielefs but then they all got converted to white men religion and loss all that is both good and bad there faith is given to them also modern missionary recruiting new converts by giving them monetary benefits and by staged propaganda shows which are not at all values preached by jesus in his lifetime i suppose
Talk with Jay Dyer. Jesus left us a visible Church... The Orthodox Church. The Philosophy of Jesus is NOT separate from his Church. Sadly, the West only has a sad watered down superficial Business Church version of Christianity. Jesus was not a communist or fascist.. neither are compatible because he did not come to establish a earthly kingdom, there is no utopia in this life. He is the King of the Universe. Look into Eastern Orthodoxy & discuss with Jay Dyer.
@@lepidoptera9337 The Orthodox Church is NOT Putin? Serbia, Georgia, Antioch, Jerusalem, etc etc. The Church is a communion of autocephalous Churches, including Moscow. What the Russian Government does HAS nothing to do with the truth or falsity of Eastern Orthodoxy. The Real Jesus left us a visible Church that has apostolic succession = Eastern Orthodox. The Church is a hospital with medicine (the Sacraments). We cannot divorce Christ from his Church, because the Church IS the Body of Christ.
[replying with my recent general comment]
Alright but... According to the bible the christian god encourages rape, murder in general, genocide, and child murder and abuse. It's very convenient to say Jesus got mischaracterized, but in the accounts available he was on board with and advised obedience to a despicable, undetectable, and absent monster of a deity. Why would a non morally deformed person worship this supposed invisible entity? It was a different time? That's not good enough.
I do admire the sentiment that an exceptional person should seek not to be served but to serve, as well as principles of nonviolence, but it is deeply dishonest to ignore the larger part of scripture.
🚮
To clarify, The scripture presented as credible is the unsubstantiated supernatural claims of individuals in ancient palestine who lived in the darkness of ignorance about basic information regarding the world we take for granted today who were writing about time in the past in which they did not live of events they did not witness.
The earliest gospel was written decades after the supposed death of jesus, if he indeed existed, in a language jesus did not speak, by a person or persons who never encountered him, far away from that backwater. It's absurd to imagine you get anything like a meaningful quotation in this way.
Where is this god's work? We can make measurements pertaining to the early universe and nowhere is a god required to explain what we observe. He did not create us, our parents did in an unbroken chain of succession to the first living cells. Nowhere do we see the work of a god. Furthermore, why would the god of a universe over 13,000,000,000 years old of which we can see a distance of 46,500,000,000 light-years in any direction be so deeply concerned with the sex lives of human beings? It's absurd.
The god of the bible is alleged to have killed every person and animal on the planet in the past, save a trivial fraction. He is the purported author of hell. It is written in the bible that he commanded his followers to engage in genocide, telling them to kill every man woman and child in the cities they captured, leaving only the virgins alive that they may be raped. You're commanded to kill your neighbors or children with rocks for a menu of trivialities that are not even crimes in modern society. That is far from a full list of atrocities. No person with any kind of decency would worship such a god if not for the threat at the core of the religion.
Christianity is based on coercion, largely of young children. You are made to believe you are ill and the only cure is faith in invisible forces. If you do not submit you will suffer unimaginable, neverending torture from which there can be no rescue or escape, an even more toxic pressure tactic than "join or die". This is not something that you would find compelling in any other context. Fear makes people embrace dementia and willfully blind themselves to an obvious fraud.
@@Addeladle-St-James
Anything God wills is GOOD. Rape? where??
I am not saying It wasn't a different time. I am saying that actions can be justified especially if GOD by HIS very definition of Good! there is JUST war!
"morally deformed" presupposes ethics. Ethics cannot be justified on any atheistic worldview... If you have to presuppose Christian God to give an account for ethics. this is the strength of the transcendental argument
God became Man, same man might become god.... Look into Eastern Orthodoxy, beautiful reverent divine liturgy. and prob a Church near you ☦
@@chad14533 the problem with god wills it and god being goodness is that it makes his goodness become vacuous and meaningless if any action that is done no matter how horrendous it might be can be consider good then there is no such thing as objective morality or even morality itself if rape,murder,theft,assault can all be consider good then wrong or right is just whatever god say it has to be and also where is God's goodness coming from if he is goodness that would suggest evil then we also have another question where is this goodness even directed at.
By 4:26, I was so embarrassed for you, I couldn't continue.
Why?
@@xryezv Don't worry about it: It is feedback for the OP, not an invitation to debate with geniuses who eat this stuff up.
@@johnny196775 i was literally just curious, I’m not religious lol… why are you so defensive you insecure little child
Yeah sorry but Jesus is a literary figure created out of the many "progressives" of the time. Almost of of the philosophies of his time may have been radical and progressive in his part of the world at the time. Though these same philosophies were cropping up all over the newer societies from the ancient world. Hinduism and Taoism were already if not about the same time trying to spread be good to each other and hold spiritualism in your heart not the church.
Sounds like you did Not research your subject.
"Whom do people say that I am?"
The Son of God.
He did Not come to Israel to change society.
He came to fulfill the Law not to do away with it.
He came as the Lamb of God to take away the sins of the world.
Only a "scholar" could miss so much
I’ve heard of Dawkins. I’ve heard of Sam Harris. But who are you? You belch out odious hate, but quote Jesus admiringly. So which is it to be? Hatred or love? You can’t have it both ways. As for your childish infatuation with socialism/communism, it is charmingly naive, but unbecoming in a thinking adult.
Exactly bro. Go vegan.
Thank you for another humanizing video, Ian. I used to be a huge Richard Dawkins fan, even getting his autograph at UC Berkeley. One day I found myself tired of winning debates on the historicity of Jesus, whilst antagonizing the faithful. Today, I agree with Julian Casablancas when he sings, "It's more important being nice, I guess, than being wise..." ("4 Chords of the Apocalypse"). I had misplaced all of my contempt for Christianity on Christ. That's like all the anti-communists blaming Marx for communist experiments gone wrong. We must separate the art from the artist.
Over time, with help from Thich Nhat Hanh, MLK, Robert Heilbroner, Prof. John Vervaeke, and others, I slowly became capable of disentangling Christ from Christianity, from all of the institutional mutations of the teachings of Jesus the Christ. Prof. Vervaeke teaches us that in order for us to awaken from the meaning crisis, we require a revolutionary transformation of our consciousness and cognition. And this immense task will also require humanity to salvage the wisdom of the axial age and ancient traditions, which our scientific worldview has distorted and marginalized.
This video helps us salvage the wisdom of Jesus of Nazareth, of Jesus the Anointed One, Jesus the Christ. It seems we may have been overly fixated on the transcendent aspects of Jesus, the desire to surpass usual limits, to go beyond the self to a more enlightened version of the self. This is important. But we may have lost sight of immanence, the state of being within and not extending beyond a given domain. In philosophy, metaphysics, and theology immanence, is the "concept of the presence of deity in and throughout the real world; the idea that God is everywhere and in everything." This idea is closer to the philosophy of the Native Americans, who see the creator in everything found in nature, than those, who must wear special clothes (i.e., abide by purity codes rather than true morality) and go to special buildings to commune with the creator. This idea of immanence gives those of us, who have only thought of Jesus in terms of transcendence, an alternative way of thinking about the philosophy of Jesus. Personally, I always imagined Jesus of Nazareth-if he actually existed as a historical figure-as a revolutionary leader of the oppressed against the cruelties and evils of the state, a state buttressed by the indifference of the comfortable society. 'Indifference to evil is spiritual decadence.'
Thinking of Jesus of Nazareth in the context of Diogenes of Sinope is absolutely brilliant. Diogenes, walking around Athens in daylight with a lantern, holding up the light to everyone he saw, is akin to Jesus' travels. Athenians thought Diogenes was crazy with his lantern in daylight. When asked what he was looking for, Diogenes held up his light to their faces: I'm looking for one honest man; but all I see are rascals and scoundrels. It seems Diogenes may have been a proto-Situationist. But, of course, Jesus exemplified his quest for truth with far more equanimity than Diogenes, embodying agape love. Diogenes held up a mirror to show people what they truly are. Jesus held up a vision to show people what they truly could be. So, the state crucified Jesus.
Today, the state similarly crucifies truth-seekers, public defenders, and whistleblowers, like Julian Assange, Leonard Peltier, Steven Donziger, Karl Marx, JFK, MLK, and Mumia Abu Jamal. The comfortable society constantly asks us to step out of our integrity, as with the post-2020 peer pressure to inject ourselves with drugs we don't want, which pose harm for users and profits for pushers, which don't make medical sense. We are invited to step out of our integrity, like Jesus was tempted. But I might lose my job, wails the comfortable person. And Jesus said, man shall not live on bread alone. Indeed, some things are more important than food. And, like the ancient Athenians, our comfortable and indifferent society has the freedom to cultivate wisdom or to cultivate self-deception. As Neil Tennant asks of us, "Which do you choose, a hard or soft option?" (cf. "West End Girls")
'Comfort the afflicted, and afflict the comfortable.'
Solidarity.
It is so profound and true. Thank you for this comment.
Jesus was further left than both Karl Marx and Peter Kropotkin.
"For where two or three gather in my name, there am I with them.”
- Matthew 18:20
"All who believed were together and had all things in common; 45 they would sell their possessions and goods and distribute the proceeds to all, as any had need. ... Now the whole group of those who believed were of one heart and soul, and no one claimed private ownership of any possessions, but everything they owned was held in common. ... There was not a needy person among them, for as many as owned lands or houses sold them and brought the proceeds of what was sold. They laid it at the apostles' feet, and it was distributed to each as any had need."
- Acts 2:44-45, Acts 4:32-35