Why I think Marvel Rivals is so Fun and Succeeding Where Overwatch is Lacking

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  • Опубліковано 28 гру 2024

КОМЕНТАРІ • 67

  • @dddeergirl
    @dddeergirl 4 дні тому +12

    the ranked experience of overwatch is evil horrible terrible, but the COMPETITIVE experience (playing tournaments with teammates you know) is some of the most fun ive ever had. i have always loved the depth overwatch has to offer regarding its top level strategy and am sad that the game has become more flat and linear with the change to 5v5. however, i will stick with it as long as i can because the competitive experience, making game-saving calls and plays that actually matter, feels so incredibly rewarding

    • @arinrobinson3898
      @arinrobinson3898  4 дні тому +6

      When overwatch hits it just hits so good. It's why I still want to see it succeed. I don't want to lose my favorite game. I just want it to be better.

  • @SquishyEggo
    @SquishyEggo 3 дні тому +1

    You're spitting facts. Subscribed.

  • @Magnum-qq5bz
    @Magnum-qq5bz 3 дні тому +1

    I love all the hero mastery stuff you can unlock especially the Lord hero icons, it makes dedicating yourself to a hero feel worth it and something for completionists to chase after.

  • @airen2
    @airen2 3 дні тому

    As someone who prefers OW2 5v5 to both OW2 6v6 and Rivals, this was a super interesting video as it made me understand both the community and myself better.
    Almost every single reason you listed here is why I prefer OW2 5v5, but here's the most important part:
    I like that things aren't dying all the time. I don't need or want to kill enemies very much, I see the OW2 battles more as a war of space and resource attrition, and that the entire team collapses soon after one pick is a good thing to me - it makes everyone in the team important.
    Rivals and 6v6 and the style of "Killing is easier, dying is less punishing" makes me feel like I'm playing some kind of D-day simulator where players just walk endlessly from spawn into battle, unload their abilities with more or less value out of them and then start over the cycle again. It makes me feel incredibly disconnected not only from my own team, but even the enemy team because I usually wind up interacting with different enemies every cycle.
    Surprisingly perhaps, is that I originally come from playing FFA Quake in the 90s, and still enjoy that style of extremely rapid kill/death cycle.
    The only part where I really feel the same is with regards to hero counters and hero swapping, that part is just annoying in OW2.
    Thank you for your videos, I almost never agree with them or feel the same, but they are still insightful because your feelings are so different from mine and you articulate those feelings well.

    • @Voyeur-i6g
      @Voyeur-i6g 2 дні тому

      All the games play like this, when a support plays well, you still achieve a feeling of your team can't die, but it requires more skill, your anti play making capabilities aren't attached to a button you just click, while the genji is lifting mountains 😂
      People just feel it's totally unbalanced, they treat entire roles like trash, and that's the thing about balance, if something is unbalanced for someone, that means the scales are tipped in someone else's favor and that's why some really love ow2 and some really hate it, if you benefit from the game in its unbalanced state than it's more than likely just tipped in your favor.
      I personally play everything in the game, but I just naturally gravitate towards anything that feels difficult for me to do, anything that really gets my brain going the most is what I enjoy playing so I feel i have a good test of this based on how I enjoy these games, and I genuinely enjoy every role and hero in marvel rivals, I've even taken to just picking last so I can use the team ups to pick my heros for me because they're all so well designed.
      While needing to swap in ow is dreadful, and tank is dreadful, and flanks are dreadful... support and the more stationary dps are about all that feels good in ow, and the more stationery tanks but they still suck. It's just not balanced and has no semblance of a skill curve.

  • @ramsical
    @ramsical 4 дні тому +1

    looking good sir👍🏾

  • @jameoww
    @jameoww 4 дні тому +3

    I played a bit more 6v6 almost almost as a "here is my data Blizzard, I am only playing 6v6 and haven't touched 5v5 in months" then went back to Rivals. OW feels very frustrating to play. I can go on a loss streak in Rivals and it is nowhere near as frustrating. I've bought like one battlepass and one skin in OW in the last 2 years. I've spent more in Rivals already. Not a lot, but the value is much better. The OW prices are just too high. I haven't even really wanted the Mythic skins.
    There's lots of characters I enjoy playing in all roles. Characters I didn't think I'd vibe with at all are fun.
    Also I think about big complaints from OW with things like stun locks that people had such a big problem with that they removed most of the stuns. I've been triple chain stunned in Rivals (Hulk, Luna, Mantis) and while it's a lot, to me that isn't game breaking. 3 heroes used 3 cooldowns to lock me in place to kill me lol.
    I've always found the brain melts around antiheal, hack, stun etc ridiculous. A well placed stun or block *is* a play. If you remove all the cc, all the kits start becoming worse versions of an otherwise identical kit.

  • @yousukeatagi8073
    @yousukeatagi8073 4 дні тому +11

    People like rivals so much largely because it has not been solved yet.
    "Everyone is overpowered" not true, it just hasn't been solved yet.
    "There is no meta" not true, it just hasn't been solved yet.
    "It's less sweaty" just wait.
    "No hard counters" not true, it just hasn't been solved yet. There are hard counters in overwatch that aren't immediately intuitive like D.va countering winston.
    "It feels like you can make big plays with anyone" because it hasn't been solved yet. People are bad at the game.
    On paper literally every hero in overwatch can make some huge play to close out a fight on their own, and with no doubt it happens from time to time. Point is after almost a decade people learn. You're not getting those 5k dva bombs anywhere beyond bronze and the practice range. You can't open the fight with raw blade and kill 3. You probably aren't going to hit that fat 5 man shatter. Because these plays have been solved. I've seen a fair amount of clip dumps/ big wow moments in marvel rivals. You can tell just by looking if you give the playerbase 8 years those same plays will be solved and subsequently nullified. Like holy cow dude you teleported behind them and shot them. It's like the overwatch equivalent of wraithing in for blossom.
    It's a combination of the game getting more and more solved as well as the playerbase simultaneously becoming desensitized to the big plays you in fact, can make. Nanoblade kills 4? Grav+something kills 5? Slept a flux? Nobody really bats an eye. Just keep playing. It's just unrealistic to expect a game that's been out for so long to feel as fresh as a game that is a few months old.

    • @Passion_Ctrl
      @Passion_Ctrl 4 дні тому +3

      zzz

    • @ducasse8473
      @ducasse8473 4 дні тому +4

      "Everyone is overpowered" pretty true.
      The game HAS been solved and everyone pretty much knows hela and Hawkeye, strange, magneto, Luna, mantis are the god picks. But the higher you go, the more likely that you're going to see them perma banned. So you're going to face squirrel girls and you're going to see that being CCd back to back by one character is pretty strong, you will see that GOOD black Panthers are getting like 3-4 dash resets every fight at a minimum etc. etc.
      "No hard counters" there aren't really. The game just wasn't designed that way. Hero counter play in marvel rivals Is largely action specific, hero counter play in overwatch has ALWAYS been marketed to be hero specific FIRST but if you're smart you can figure out the action specific stuff. Like the devs and general gameplay will tell you that beam damage goes through genji block, but most will have to just learn how to force the genji to just deflect and go on him when he's in that vulnerable state. In marvel rivals, it doesn't take much to figure out that peni makes it very difficult for melee characters to do their thing. But peni is VERY avoidable in alot of situations but can also make herself just as unavoidable in a lot of situations, same as the melee characters. The melee characters aren't super easy to hit, and the peni isn't always super easy to kill.
      "No meta" that's just cope. There is a meta. It's just that bans make it very difficult to have it down to a science for the average solo queue player.
      "It's less sweaty." This is at best subjective. At worst, not true.
      "It feels like you can make big plays with anyone" In its current state..... Yes! Like I don't think Bucky ult resetting or magneto absorbing stuff will ever age poorly. Unless they go the overwatch route and nerf ults WHILE introducing newer more powerful ults. Like removing 2 seconds off genji ult but introducing ashe who can throw a literal tank as an ult lmao.

    • @yousukeatagi8073
      @yousukeatagi8073 3 дні тому

      @ I will take your word for much of your comment as I believe it comes from a place of first hand experience whereas I have only watched gameplay. However, I do find it to be somewhat naive to believe the game has been solved, even remotely to the point that overwatch has been. With regards to both ladder and organized play the game is still an infant. Sure a lot of overwatch players start with largely translatable skills but give it 7 years it will be unrecognizable. And to respond to the last part, it’s not that I believe making big plays in overwatch hasn’t aged particularly well. You can become desensitized to something that is really amazing, like if you’ve had the same delicious steak every single day for 20 years. To elaborate I think stuff like hitting a good sleep or killing the whole team with nanoblade still feel really great. Like I said, it’s just unrealistic to expect people to find the same level of excitement doing something for the first time vs something they’ve probably done 100 times before.

    • @ducasse8473
      @ducasse8473 3 дні тому

      @@yousukeatagi8073 I think that both games are as solved as they can be. And that's why I don't think "it just wasn't solved yet." Is a reason for it feeling good.
      Like adding 5v5, removing open queue, not adding any kind of map pools, or pick bans. Item builds, pickable passives. Etc.
      And then all of the "streamlining" and blatant nerfing of the characters while adding new OP ones. Overwatch solved itself.
      A bunch of people say overwatch is solved within 2 weeks of a new major patch but then you look at pros and they're somehow letting 1 trick/meme/off meta team #847 hang around in tier 1 play or they're getting absolutely dumpstered by Koreans who just remixed dive comp for the 1000th time. To me that doesn't sound like anyone "solved" anything.

    • @itslazygod8989
      @itslazygod8989 3 дні тому

      People like rivals because it’s a good game are you delusional??

  • @shapshane8241
    @shapshane8241 4 дні тому +1

    21:01 till you get to hero bans...

    • @ducasse8473
      @ducasse8473 4 дні тому

      And that's a good thing. It invites teamwork, and knowing alot of different things about the game.

    • @malcovich_games
      @malcovich_games 4 дні тому

      Have a pocket flex character for all the roles. Don't just main the top tiers.

    • @hardboiled2987
      @hardboiled2987 2 дні тому

      Good. Imagine helas every single match. No thanks.

  • @shapshane8241
    @shapshane8241 4 дні тому +1

    hey arin, would you say psylocke is the character that plays the most like tracer? im a tracer main and im tryna find my rivals main

    • @arinrobinson3898
      @arinrobinson3898  4 дні тому +1

      Hmm depends, I would try psylocke if you like the assassin/dueling aspect of Tracer. And maybe star lord if you like the off angling working with your team type of Tracer.

    • @ragnarokpuppy398
      @ragnarokpuppy398 4 дні тому

      i would instead suggest star lord. his dash has invincibility frames and he plays the most like tracer

    • @shapshane8241
      @shapshane8241 4 дні тому

      i feel like star lord doesnt play much like tracer, his dashes are too short, and his gun retains too much damage at range, resulting in more poke that dive. so i guess yeah psylocke.

    • @malcovich_games
      @malcovich_games 4 дні тому

      You can try Magik.
      Or Psylocke teamed up with Magik.
      Or Star Lord teamed up with Magik.

  • @anthonyfarias5076
    @anthonyfarias5076 4 дні тому +1

    Kinda unrelated but what is your opinion on one tricks such as myself? I one trick genji. I am low diamond, can I climb to GM after lots of practice and discipline? Am I selfish for not learning another hero so I can swap to them when my teammates ask?

    • @arinrobinson3898
      @arinrobinson3898  4 дні тому +2

      It's possible to one trick anyone to GM. How hard it is will vary so it kind of depends on the situation. If I know you one trick I will abuse that knowledge. One tricking forces the team to play around you so people will think it's selfish if it's not working out. If it's a high enough skill character you can lots of times still get value in most situations but there's times it does hinder your team. I play Tracer into counters cause I know I can out play them but if they go fully anti Tracer I'll swap because even playing perfectly I can't get as much value than if I just switched. But if they all switch for me that does help my team as long as I don't die. That's why I say I main Tracer vs one trick. I'll still have like 85% play time on her and that last 15% is switching to help my team.
      Playing into your counters does teach you a lot and I think it's important to learn how to fight your counters but if you have high deaths and too much downtime in fights I would analyze how to improve that and if you still can't get value then it's time to swap. Also I've ranked up through every rank before and people generally have no idea what they're talking about so take what they say with a grain of salt.
      The two biggest mistakes I see from players is too many deaths and too much down time. If your team is fighting you should be too.

    • @anthonyfarias5076
      @anthonyfarias5076 4 дні тому +3

      @arinrobinson3898 thanks for your opinion, I think currently what I have to improve is deflect usage and maximizing my pressure on off angles. I'll keep one tricking genji and If I get hardstuck on a rank I'll consider (re)learning tracer. Also merry christmas.

    • @arinrobinson3898
      @arinrobinson3898  4 дні тому

      Happy to help! And merry Christmas!

    • @malcovich_games
      @malcovich_games 4 дні тому

      If your one-trick is high or god tier like Hawkeye you might get banned out, always have a pocket.
      And no, don't always flex. Might be better to live with the "bad comp" and try to use your mechanical skill with your one-trick to defeat the opponents. Only swap out if it's not working out.

  • @Void619
    @Void619 4 дні тому +3

    Marvel Rivals really need to let us skip all those transition screens. I really hate them. You end the game, big transition about win/lose, again transition about MVP who nobody cares about especially when you lose, transition about rank up you have to click away and finally transition to the team/stats screen where you can start a new game.
    I just want to start a new game and not sit through all those screens. Especially in quickplay when there are hard losses, because sometimes you just don't get a working team, but that's fine, because it's quickplay anyway.
    I just want to leave and start a new game, but I have to sit through those screens I don't care about. I don't care about the losses as much as in OW, but it takes too long to start a new game and it feels like the game is rubbing in the loss I got.
    Even OW lets you press ESC and leave the game to start a new one.

    • @arinrobinson3898
      @arinrobinson3898  4 дні тому +1

      Ok I have to agree especially with all the startup screens. I love the game but some times I want to skip the extra shit and just go next.

    • @franchesca2418
      @franchesca2418 2 дні тому +1

      I absolutely hate the killcam in-game. I love having the kill-cam option in Overwatch, something I turned off immediately when first playing the game, but in Marvel Rivals it's horrid. I have to wait for the little loading screen to go away in order for me to skip it anyway, really wish there was a setting for that just like in Overwatch.

  • @calvinnowicki9412
    @calvinnowicki9412 3 дні тому

    Id be cateful about your point on big plays. Big plays are easy to come about when everyone is bad/doesnt know how to position.
    Best example i can give is how s76 used to have what was considered an op ult. unless somebody is terribly positioned his ult no longer a threat besides zoning.

  • @scpnut2517
    @scpnut2517 4 дні тому

    I love marvel rivals but i cant really play it due the the optimization issues and they just removed the like one thing i could do to have a playable frame rate by not allowing the config files to be changed. So im stuck with overwath until i upgrade my pc. That and my 2 favorite heros to play are zarya and venture and rivals doesnt really have anything like them unfortunately. Atleast from what i could find anyways.

  • @Jamesington
    @Jamesington 3 дні тому

    Re your note about one-tricking, did you know that once you get to Diamond rank and above, there are hero bans? And a redditor did some analysis to find that Hela has a 35% ban rate. The meta is certainly developing and we'll see how long the honeymoon phase lasts.

    • @arinrobinson3898
      @arinrobinson3898  3 дні тому

      I was responding assuming he was asking about overwatch one tricking because he mentioned genji and said it was kind of unrelated. Not sure he meant rivals.

  • @jerod256
    @jerod256 4 дні тому +1

    Ranked has already turned into everyone getting really ornery of always having 2-2-2. It's really annoying because they mentally throw and i think playing heroes you're good at is more important. It's a mental bias held over from overwatch and i think it's going to hold the game back.
    Having said that, i do love the fragginess of rivals. It's thrilling to have that extra risk-reward.

    • @arinrobinson3898
      @arinrobinson3898  4 дні тому

      It is annoying that even though it's new people are assuming everything from overwatch would be the same. It's not a bad start but it's still a new game and limits need to be tested. Also I'd rather someone play a hero they are good at than play something they don't know. People take games too seriously and need to remember it's still about having fun.

  • @shapshane8241
    @shapshane8241 4 дні тому

    28:51 tracer blinks... that's why

  • @lilwintery6434
    @lilwintery6434 4 дні тому

    I don't think Rivals really has more skill expression than Overwatch, I think it feels this way right now because the game isn't as solved as Overwatch is.

  • @JoeyCentral
    @JoeyCentral 3 дні тому

    My issue with marvel rivals
    Is lack of aim assist. Like I play Psylocke and I fed like I’m being punished with her because my aim sucks. I can do her combos easily but problem is i can’t land them on moving targets. I feet he gsme devs need to add more accessibility to all heroes so that anyone of any skill level can play them. If they truly want the gsme to beat goerwatch then they have to do it or overwatch players will all return to overwatch after the honeymoon period is over

  • @Voyeur-i6g
    @Voyeur-i6g 2 дні тому

    2:25 marvel rivals did it on purpose, they rescheduled their launch to be perfectly aligned with it 😂
    Overwatch is out here asleep at the wheel while theyre fighting a dam war, marvel rivals must have spred up work and really crunched numbers to get the game out earlier by that much, but they knew if they could get their game in the hands of the 6v6 crowd and gamers in general before that test, theyd have a far bigger launch.

  • @VesperEm
    @VesperEm 4 дні тому +4

    I'm really happy that people have been able to enjoy this game, but for me personally Rivals feels so sloppy. Beyond the awful optimization, visual clutter exceeding even the Mauga Sym meta, the "throw everything at the wall" hero design (Black Panther has 2 different dash abilities with 3 charges total), the annoying voice lines....Overwatch has always had a level of polish and elegance in its design, even with its heroes that are broken by design. Plus the fact Rivals launched with only 8 maps which are such nothingburgers...idk I just don't see what yall are seeing.

    • @cantu7214
      @cantu7214 4 дні тому +5

      you OW fanboys are so funny 😂😂😂

    • @VesperEm
      @VesperEm 4 дні тому +1

      @cantu7214 Glad I could provide a laugh! Happy holidays

    • @arinrobinson3898
      @arinrobinson3898  4 дні тому +7

      Overwatch has superior polish even at launch for sure. It's had 8 years to grow content as well. It's hard to match that. Rivals is new and the idea is solid which is the hardest part about making games. A lot of times the sequels in games are better because they can build off what they've made already. It's the opposite of movies in this way. So a lot of people are investing in the potential they see. It's always just a lot of big plays so you feel awesome as you play. The polish will come in time and maybe you'll change your mind but it might also not be your style and that's fine too. There is a lot of overlap of player base but I can understand people not wanting to start a new hero shooter over.

    • @Jeyy-ii
      @Jeyy-ii 3 дні тому

      @@cantu7214the person actually gives a reasonable response and u basically reply with “oh ur a fanboy”..if that makes someone a fanboy then you need to check what a fanboy is.

    • @itslazygod8989
      @itslazygod8989 3 дні тому

      It’s season 0 are you mental

  • @testtube173
    @testtube173 4 дні тому +3

    For me the design of characters is way more appealing. I don't like ugly disfigured unlikeable bitchy obnoxious know it all boss babes. The last maybe 5-7 characters in OW are awful from just an aesthetic standpoint. The original cast was very well thought out and fun but they have been replaced with the new "inclusive" heroes that don't appeal to my character fantasy preferences. Specifically spunky teen kiriko or non binary whatever the tunneller kid is. They ruined McCree for some stupid IRL drama that nobody cared about. The new tank is a complete miss that has no sensible spot in the OW universe. They just mashed some character kits together and painted him blue/purple. I'm good never playing OW2 ever again if it doesn't take note of what people respond to and continue on their path to self destruction.
    I love that every character in Rivals is capable or top of the line hero where even if they aren't well known they are extremely gifted at whatever they try to do. The only sore spot in the entire game might be Storm not nailing her archetype at least power level wise. That to me screams volumes that a company from a different country was able to grasp and excel with tone, atmosphere and the characters over their country of origin.

    • @dddeergirl
      @dddeergirl 4 дні тому +6

      "some stupid irl drama that nobody cared about" and its one of the biggest workplace harassment scandals in gaming history

    • @ashonline77
      @ashonline77 4 дні тому +7

      "Ruined Mccree" cause of a simple name change vs "stupid IRL drama that nobody cared about" actual systemic sexual harrassments in workplace. Yeah you need to take a look at yourself and get your priorities straight but i guess i shouldn't expect more from someone who cares so much about inclusive heroes.

    • @drjamaymay405
      @drjamaymay405 4 дні тому +2

      New 'inclusive' designs?
      What are you on about.
      OW always had inclusivity in mind.

    • @lilwintery6434
      @lilwintery6434 4 дні тому +1

      bro what are you talking about everyone in the game has cartoon proportions

    • @ValeAmante
      @ValeAmante 4 дні тому

      Wait for when they drop a female Loki skin