I feel like a lot of fans ran with the “it’s New Vegas but in space” idea. Unfortunately that didn’t quite pan out and I think it hurt the game in retrospect.
That was a fan issue, and not a creator issue though. High expectations vs what you end up with is always a big issue with games these days it seems. Just look at Starfield. I had a good time play Outer Worlds but I was left with a, "I want more", but I never replayed the game although I probably should one of these days with a different character build. What made FNV so great wasn't just the base game though, but the dlc as well, such sa lonesome road. Expanding the scope of the game a lot, and replayability.
Hello Tim I just wanted to say im currently on another playthrough of Outer Worlds and I think I love it more each time I play it. Ive been on a space kick recently after just having yet another affair with the Fallout Franchise and ive been bouncing back between Outer Worlds and Starfield. I watch/listen to your videos as i get ready for work because it calms me and i just want to thank you for your contributions to the world in which we live. "It's not the best choice, it's Spacer's Choice."
"If you're not making a game it's because you don't want to" hey, you nailed it. No interest in making a game. Regardless, I do like hearing your thoughts on making games, it's interesting.
One of my favorite games of all time, really enjoyed the storytelling of the game. The Characters are very charismatic, even the villains. Really looking forward to the second game
I’ll admit I was really soured on Outer Worlds due to the last minute change to Epic exclusivity. It wasn’t till I saw that it had ended up a publishers decision and not Obsidians that I decided to give it a chance. I’d ask about your thoughts on Epic exclusivity from a game developer standpoint but I can guess it’d probably be a no comment situation.
Oh man, I completely forgot about the Epic exclusive thing. I have not followed EGS news in forever, so I'm not even sure if I want to install it yet, not that I'm in a big hurry to install yet another launcher.
I was able to pick up Outer Worlds on the Epic Game Store giveaway over Christmas and I’m totally absorbed into it now. I really regret not buying it sooner and I’ve been recommending it to friends I know that have similar tastes. I do think the marketing may have had something to do with that. I tried No Man’s Sky and wasn’t really able to get into it. I never played any of the new Fallouts (3/4/76) so don’t really have a reference frame to compare there, but I’m all about the meaningful dialog choices. I love that I can attack ANY npc (something I know Tim has ranted about not being possible in other games). I love stealing items and unfortunately have a bit of a looter/hoarder mentality 😅 that’s forcing me to explore and loot every nook. I am a huge Borderlands 2 fan and love that the comedic tone is (at least somewhat) similar but toned down in a more realistic way. Side note, the way some of the marauders charge remind me suspiciously of psychos. I love the companion system, I wasn’t expecting that from this game and the depth of the interactions with the companions is excellent. It’s really hard for me to get into most modern AAA games due to the lack of player agency. Thanks Tim for making yet another great game (I have fond memories of playing Fallout 1 as a child) and this channel is a tremendous resource. I tinker with game development as a hobby and have watched most all of your videos. I love hearing the stories regarding business and management as those are more relevant to my 9 to 5 job, and coping with life in general. Anyways, thanks again and for making this channel available!
Hey Tim. You've given me joy and smiles listening to you talk the last few months. At times these videos can be very cathartic. Thank you for being a bright light in other people's lives.
The "Spacers Choice" in-game ad was really good. It has that knack of getting stuck in your head. Quite often when I look at a product that's ok, but not great, the tune plays in my head. It's what can be referred to as annoyingly catchy. That pitch was the most fun commercial I've heard in years and it's not even real, just an in-game semi serious joke. Love it.
Hey Tim, might be a weird question, but after thumbing through some online job websites for game creation related job listing. I was curious, how do these game studios work in terms of actually physically getting people together to work on a project? Does a studio just have an office location and hope that potential talent is within commuting distance of that office? Do studios offer relocation deals? For your career in various studios, how long did you have to commute to get to the office every-day? I know it's a weird question, but the logistics of the whole thing perplex me a bit. Feels like alot of studios would basically be "talent locked" depending on what place the office is, since how many people are going to uproot their life to work somewhere potentially completely different than where they currently are, especially if they have a family and kids, etc. I've kind of been realizing the potential difficulty that fully-remote work can be for a collaborative creative effort like game creation. So I'd imagine many places still prefer the physical team over a most/fully remote team. Thanks for reading, if you do.
I really liked my hype level pre outer worlds release. I had to get it on pc xbox (game 2 of only 2 not found in my steam library), so i was absolutely at 'fomo activated'. I felt like, everything i saw just looked so lovingly crafted. It wasnt New Vegas in Space, it is something special. Also, Rizzo's for life, im just putting that here. Whoa, whoa whoa, its Rizzo's!
We were lucky in the UK to have a tonne of computer mags in the 80's and early nineties. Every different type of computer had at least one, usually multiple, titles. There were others that covered multiple platforms. Every one seemed to come with demo tapes/disks. Some even had basic programming tutorials for simple games.
Best game I’ve played in a vary long time, thank you Tim, you’re story telling and nuanced view on philosophy is something allot of writers dream of having
I gave a shot to this game this week. I love it! It's like the familar BGS formula I've always loved but with some great evolutions, like the way you mamage your companions an their quests. It really reminded me of Mass Effect.
I had never heard of The Outer Worlds till I saw it on PS+ and downloaded it because I was so disappointed with Fallout 4. (Also, I had never played a Fallout game before Fallout 4 because you can't on PS5) I never looked back. I absolutely love The Outer Worlds man. Thanks for making a great game.
"You can make the best gsme in the world but if noone knows about it, noone will play it". I said the exact same thing during a careers day presentaion lol. Its so true.
I still go back to some of the more ridiculous dialogs, particularly "accusing oneself" for a laugh when I need it. Thanks for the game. Love the mix of tones and ideas.
I had to comment again because of something you said about being mislead by marketing. I bought Fallout New Vegas because I saw the commercials with the Ranger shooting an Anti-Material Rifle while on top of the “Welcome to New Vegas” sign. I hadn’t played a big RPG before, or any games with choice and consequences. I thought I was getting this high octane action packed shooter lol. But that game opened my eyes to RPGs and I went on to play fallout 1,2, and 3 and became a life long fan. I didn’t think the marketing was misleading or anything, I think it was good at attracting a new audience to a franchise that was just recently rebooted and shoved into the limelight. But the marketing for The Outer Worlds was amazing as well. I loved that violent Femmes song! It fit perfectly. And because the ads understood the humor I could tell “yup, this is Tim and Leonard!” So I pre-ordered it immediately.
"Corroboration" i think was the word you were looking for. Thanks for the video, I'm dreading having to deal with that for my games because my first couple at least will have effectively no budget at all. I need all the advice i can get on it.
Hiya, Tim! Cool insight, and I loved the in-game jingles and ads because they felt more fun and less like advertising. It was obvious you guys did them for that reason and not because marketing asked. It's a bummer a lot of the cool stuff is proprietary and you can't talk about it, though. Would you mind discussing making dev tools for other devs and "the pipeline" in general? As much information about those topics you're willing to share would be greatly appreciated. I highly value your knowledge and experience in this industry. Thanks for all you do!
It's interesting to hear how involved with the marketing you were. That sounds like a developers/directors dream, being able to ensure marketing is accurately reflecting their vision for the game. With that in mind, I'd being curious to exactly how involved you were. Yousay you don't think anyone was misled, but I will say I do think there was a slight expectation created that the game would be a New Vegas 2 (but in space) which it wasn't quite. (It was it's own thing and stands so well on its own merits). That idea I think was reinforced I think with a lot of heavy marketing involving 'FROM THE ORIGINAL CREATORS OF FALLOUT!' and 'THE DEVELOPERS OF NEW VEGAS!'. Was that a concsious choice from you and Leonard, or was it something the marketing team added to help launch the new IP based on Tim/Leonard/Obsidian legacy?...
Hey Tim, a related question: In any of the studios have piracy been a big factor in some way? Or was that taken off your chest and you concentrated purely on the game creation aspects?
IIRC he said before in an interview with Alper Caglar that piracy was something they expected and accepted as an outside factor (though he said that they were underestimating it because they considered mass scale file sharing to be impractical at the time), though it's possible that his opinions on it changed over time.
I first heard about The Outer Worlds from listening to music on a twitch stream and asking the chat about what the music was because I thought it was so good. Turns out x5_PiG was playing the The Outer Worlds Soundtrack in the background. Marketing can be subtle like that.
Martin genuinely had me belly laughing, gripping my sides, wanting to tell people to play the game because I spent a solid 10 minutes just cackling playing through the dialogue. No other type of game makes the dialogue trees the thing people are talking excitedly about
There is a lot of stuff that end up on Steam that is just quick asset flips though. I wouldn't mind a copy of Arcanum when Tim done tinker with it though. I still have my old game box on the shelves behind me. -)
I have learned about Fallout from a demo that was on a game magazine CD. Played it, and then got the full game. But studios are not that keen on offering demos anymore, and rather show curated trailers.
Starfield brought me back to this game and I really appreciated it more after coming back. Love the evil options and it's an RPG that has actual role playing elements which feels weirdly uncommon for RPGs these days.
finally played it Tim. Never grabbed me because it ran like CRAP on the xbox when it first came out/ but now on my own built computer. holy crap. already did 2 playthroughs in 5 days and now doing supernova playthrough
If your just building a game for a personal portfolio and its never going to be sold; should you still make a teaser or pitch video to hype-up your game, even if the video is only shown on the portfolio? Asking for a friend. ;) Pros: * Good practice. * Can hype recruiters. * Open to feed back. Cons: * Can't see much in terms of returns. * Could have a negative effect if your not as good.
You absolutely should. Learning how to present your own game, its core features, main strengths in a short gif image or 30 sec trailer is one of the most important skills for an indie developer.
id just like to leave my impression on The Outer Worlds. Loved everything about it, EXCEPT the gunplay, as if felt so much the enemies were bullet sponges. Even more than in Fallout 4. That's it. Loved everything else about it.
Hi Tim, do you ever miss some forms of marketing? For example ads in gaming journals, promo copies of games in cereal boxes, or maybe the game boxes themselves (they used to be huge to attract more attention on the shelf).
It seems like you had really great marketing team, congrats! That didn't prevent people from thinking TOW will be "F:NV in space", as few other people already mentioned. Being in IT, I still can't understand the position of marketing in games industry. It's often said that marketing budget is 1-2x game budget, which would be insane anywhere else. How come other industries and companies are so obsessed with cutting the middleman and reducing costs of doing business, while games industry allowed marketing to gain such a strong position and it became such huge money sink?
My guess would be that it's harder to let quality games build up an audience, as the games will become old and not as graphically impressive as time goes by, so people will pay less for them. So marketing would be needed to get more people to buy while the title is hot.
Hey Tim, I launched The Outer Worlds via Windows (Xbox?) Game Pass, the streaming service, and despite modern hardware and a solid wired internet connection; I could not get a stable frame rate. What are your thoughts on these services/technologies? Sony, Nvidia, Google, Amazon etc. has competing versions of game streaming and I was thinking that there may be a problem with bad tech misrepresenting a developer's game due to the host's deficiencies. Thanks! Derek
I literally just bought it on Switch 2 days ago. I have a PS3 and was loving New Vegas but can’t finish due to my save file being to big. It’s really nice playing a game from the last decade lol. I feel like Outer Worlds is *better* than Vegas with some under-the-hood elements but the writing is a little dumbed down in how it analyzes economic systems. I’m very excited for the sequel. Hopefully the writing encapsulates ethics, philosophy and economics as well as New Vegas did, and then we’re gonna have a GOAT game
I'm also playing it for the first time now on switch. It's like a hybrid between kotor and new vegas and i love it. i admit i prefer this over new vegas so far. kotor 2 is still my favorite obsidian game since i grew up with it, but they really improved companion interactions this time. kotor 2 didnt even have companion quests if i remember right. both kotor2 and new vegas owed almost everything to their predecessors. This time around obsidian built a new franchise, so there was no pre-established lore or recycled assets, which is why I'm hopeful that the sequel will be even better so long as the direction stays the same
Marketing for and quality of ToW were good, I bought 2 copies (for me and friend) and Spacer's Choice Edition (still need to play it). I liked the trailers, the biggest shame was Epic Games deal. | do hope ToW2 will be/do better!
There's a corollary question, which is, if "spending money on a marketing team is money well spent", then what's the (specific) least-worst way to increase discoverability for the devs whose budget is zero dollars?
If you have no budget for marketing, then I hope you have good self-made trailers, get good reviews, and have people playing and enjoying the game in streams. It's all about reaching people, so that they know your game exists and that they think it's a game they'd like to play.
Just a thought. Kindly don't consider this advice, but merely a report of what I've seen with my very own eyes. Alpha. When it's in a playable state, you might consider releasing it to the interested for alpha testing. Approach those social media "influencers" (a two-edged sword, to be sure) playing alphas similar to or in the genre of your game. (Yes. Some, e.g. Fooster, are even playing games that are in an alpha state.) The "professional" marketing can come later when the game is close to being ready for final release. In the meantime, your game will be pulling in revenue from those who buy it (at a less-than-market price, of course) in its alpha state and beyond. 7 Days to Die, Green Hell, Subsistence, Mist Survival. All of these games either started out with a Kickstarter (or similar) campaign and were/are sold in their alpha states. Green Hell, at least, actually has seen finall release while 7DTD has sold 16 million copies despite that it's still in alpha. A lot of gamers love to be in on the development of games even if they don't influence said development. Watching them grow and change over time is its own reward. Some of these games even have been in development for a decade or more and have had people following their dev streams, etc. religiously. (I'm not one of those people who follow them quite that closely, but those who do are out there.) There are even UA-camrs dedicated to them exclusively. Their audiences may not all be as large as Fooster's, but if I could find them, anyone could. [Spoiler Warning] An awful lot of people are, frankly, sick to death of industry shenanigans and effectively have switched to playing games such as these in development by independent studios and, even, one or two man teams in order to support them in their endeavors. Everyone still loves an underdog.
Talk about it in rarly stages and share alpha builds around. Minecraft got popular because Notch posted it on /v/ back when he was just doing it for fun, and it gained traction from there because it was good and fun. Just make something good and genuinely share it with people who will probably like it too.
@@eponymous3784 Authenticity and genuineness are qualities that top my personal list of qualities to look for in everyone and everything. Are you suggesting, though, that programs like Steam's shouldn't exist/developers shouldn't participate in them and/or hope for some revenue from a game currently in development? So many questions have been asked of Tim about what to do if one has little to no budget. An alpha test run is at least one way to get a revenue stream coming in that can be put into continued development of the game without the developer going bankrupt, personally or otherwise, in the process. There is a dark and light side to everything and alpha programs such as Steam's are no exception to the rule. I voiced the concern on another thread that asset stores and the like would result in the market being flooded with little more than modifications of software tutorial "projects" and there's no question in my mind that there are quite a few of those on Steam, but I don't think that should dissuade a developer from trying to get their game out there and played and talked about and a supportive community formed around it; etc. I wouldn't think "the earlier, the better" because it's painfully obvious that reviews of various games in an alpha state on Steam are generally penned by players who apparently think they're playing a finished product despite plentiful warnings that they're not. It should be in a playable state...with maybe a little panache I enjoy seeing played and/or playing games in development for the same (and only) reason I watch "Let's Plays" on occasion: to get a feel for the game so I can determine whether or not it might be something I'd enjoy and want to invest time and money in myself.
I knew the martketing of Outer Worlds from IGN, and I think you both did a good job of scoping down what the game was/isnt. It's sad to me that so many people didn't watch that marketing, and just went in bull-heading about it being "Fallout New Vegas 2".
Tim, could you comment on the comparisons to Fallout New Vegas present in the marketing of the Outer Worlds? There is a debate online about this. On one side, you have the people insisting the devs at Obsidian never made such comparisons and blame it on the marketing team/publisher. Yet your testimony seems to indicate the devs, or at least you, were involved in the marketing to a significant extent.
Hey Tim! Do you have any opinions on Software Design patterns that are commonly used in game development?(Singletons, Observers, etc.). Are there patterns that are commonly used that you think shouldn't be? or Patterns that should be used more frequently but are not?. Do YOU have any patterns that you always use? or would like to use more in your projects? Thank you!
Does anyone remember which video or ad had Blister in the sun as music? I don't remember any using the Violent Femmes, and I looked around but couldn't find it....
I have to admit that I didn't like Outer Worlds. The humor, or perhaps the amount of it, really was not for me. I tried playing it a number of times and never made it off the first planet. But to tie this into the video instead of just being randomly negative, I knew the game wasn't for me from the marketing so I never bought it. I didn't expect it to be my kind of game which I think is a sign of good marketing. It made it really clear what the game was. I ended up trying the game well after it launched just to try it and yeah it wasn't for me. But after watching Tim's videos I may end up going back to it as a study on game design.
I kept on getting confused between The Outer Worlds and another game, Outer Wilds. I wonder if they benefitted a lot from that confusion with your great ads.
Hey. Got a question. When you gaming do you have fun and immerse yourself in the world? Or because of that you worked in game dev you look at games with issues and you think what went wrong in that game, what you as a programer could do better ? What i mean is do you have moments when you dont wonder about technicals and just play the game, like a normal consumer who buy a game and just play. Sorry for my english.
Sometimes I can immerse myself in a game. Usually those moments happen because of unusually good writing or novel situations, that take me out of my usual “let’s analyze this game” mode. It’s rare, but it happens. And I savor those moments.
Hey Tim, had a question. For me when it comes to Ideas or concepts I have for some short stories, the ideas I initially have at the beginning always change as I think more and more about, by the time I'm done it's sometimes a night and day difference. So I wanted to ask, in your games, has there ever been an idea you had at the beginning, but dramatically changed by the end of the project?
Alright Tim, I’ve started working on my CRPG mech warrior game. Right now I’m just doing basic combat to hopefully attract a real programmer. The long term goal is you’ve got to travel between towns in a mech because the world is irradiated, and mech combat is twin stick shooter style. Instead of traditional RPG character stats, the mech gets upgrades. In towns you’re on foot and mostly doing social things. On foot combat is envisioned as possible but you are very squishy outside your mech
Lol, making a marketing campaign and brand promotion about the game taking place in dystopian future where marketing campaigns and brand promotions are everything. That is so ironic and meta! 😁
The design choice of Outer Worlds is that the game autosaves BEFORE you go through a door, not afterwards. Which means that on supernova you have to double load every time you die, once to load the save, the second to go through a door and load the area. Also gotta say there are no money sinks worth mentioning. I'm what, level 27 right now and I have 50K bits. I'm guessing players are expected to tinker thousands of bits into their guns to get a few extra damage points or something?
Hi Tim. I spent a lot of time watching yours videos and i noticed that couple of times you said something like "It's sad that nothing ever hapened with that game" "it never came out" "it's only a demo that remains" It make me sad too. And my point is don't you wanna make your very own game? Last RPG from Tim Cain before you fully step out of a buissnes? After all these years, experience and all knowledge you have you could do this. RPG of your dreams with all fresh ideas becouse im sure of it you have some new perspective on how to handle RPG nowdays. Does it come to your mind ever? Or you just make couple of contracts and done ?
about fallout you talk about thinks that shouldnt be on the game because it dint fit (like the terminator), can you talk about thinks that didnt fit in the outer world , it probably wont be on the second game
The marketing was good for sure but if we are honest, being able to put „from the original creators of Fallout“ front and center probably created half of the sales on its own.
ı with it was pc dvd version. ıneed to make illegal copy of the game pc physcal disc version bcouse digital store versions not work future. gamer choice. if you make good game and give demo on steam makatting basicly demo splash picture need to reflect game good. its not hard to find that way. but picking game from physcal shelfs or demo discs never beaten. in that way it not easier.
Not like that it matters, but from what I remember the first time I saw info about the Outer Worlds I was kinda put off bc it looked too much like "Fallout in space" in terms of aesthetics, particularly Bethesda's Fallouts. Ofc being related to Fallout was the point, but, eh... Having playing the game I'd say it's different enough. Only later when I saw the Art Nouveau things I realized that it might be aesthetically interesting for me and then I checked that Tim and Leonard were actually involved so I decided to buy. Idk, I'm probably too "elitist" to like the same thing over and over, but on global scale people rather like more of the same thing that was good, so this approach is justified.
Really enjoyed the short journey of outer worlds, i finished the game without even activating the robot on the ship. Please keep the game around 20hrs , enjoy the short playtime for the first one
What Tim is clearly unaware of is this uprise of predatory advertising agencies within the indie gaming scene. Sure, if you're sitting on a pile of cash north of 5-6 figures, you can simply contact a marketing firm. However, if your budget is extremely low or nonexistent being you're indie, you'll find yourself being contacted by firms offering ZERO money down but take a large percentage of your game's success as well as leaving you holding the bag and in their debt if it isn't. For indie devs, marketing comes down to the right social platform, hard work and luck.
I really disliked the outer worlds VS every other game you and obsidian have done. The comedy was stale not really to my taste but art was the worst part, characters looked very cookie cutter and could have used way more hairstyles and face types. However the combat and design systems are pretty good but the "Social media marketing" where the game was compared to fallout 76 and capitalized off 76 being a train wreck and everyone was like "This is what fallout should be" "This is how you make a proper rpg" that was what sold me. I don't believe I would have bought the game if 76 never happened so things like that also are worth noting since I know a lot of people also bought it to make a "statement". I do not see myself buying the sequel unless it was something totally crazy and had tons of mechanical elements and systems to make up for the story. I would also like to note that I never even seen most of the marketing. I knew fallout NV was fun and pillars one was fun and F fallout 76.
I would expect Obsidian to be a company that can look at the shortcomings of OW and use outer worlds 2 to revise and expand on things. Personally, above all, i hope modding tools are shared with the community, but I also hope to see toggle 3rd person and some more immersion and exploration improvements: much more diverse set of weapons, enemies, and outfits like was seen in new vegas. I never finished OW1 and haven't touched it in a couple years, but I will be going back and trying it again
I'm not sure the intent quite matched up with the expectation.You'd expect that it would, considering, but I honestly felt the humor just a bit out of date. Watched a few episodes of Let's Plays to get a feel for it and decided the game just wasn't for me. (And that's all. I'm sure it was a lovely game, but something about it just felt a bit off.) Glad it did well, regardless. Seems a lot of people have been trying to put their finger on just what that "just a bit off" entails. (See Noah-Caldwell Jervais' coverage, for example.) But can't...quite...do it. I suspect that's only because we've been through so much in the past decade or so.
@@lrinfi I got about halfway into it before realizing there wasn't much that kept me wanting to play. It *is* hard to put into words because I bought the game expecting to love it. If I were to even try... This could just be my inner 12 year old speaking but maybe it's because it lacked edge. It didn't have that bitter nihilism of an 80s action movie like, say, Fallout did. It was nihilistic, but in a detached, ironic way. Maybe the game should've taken itself more seriously. Humor is fine but it doesn't stand out when everything's silly. In Fallout there are times to laugh and times to feel dread. Bad guys in Fallout act like scary bad guys. Bad guys in TOW act like Captain Planet villains.
@@deathsheadknight2137 Definitely reminds me of Tim saying he wanted the orignal Fallout to end with a party and baloons while Leonard Boyarsky wanted it to end...uh, quite a different way. What a great team! Kinda reminds me of Laverne and Shirley, actually. I'll never forget Shirley saying, "Keep your hands off my baloon, Laverne!" Classic.
@@lrinfi Lightning in a bottle I guess. The perfect combination of people, in the right mindset and at the right time, like Terminator, Star Wars, etc.
I loved the Outer Worlds but it seems to me like it REALLY suffered from the marketing focusing so much on the Fallout connection. Forums are full of players who came in hoping to play New Vegas 2 (especially after the crappy 76 launch) and who got very upset when they didn't get that.
Tim Outer Worlds could be better, game was good but I miss some rpg elements. More challanging itemization, game could be longer. I know its easy to say and harder made.
Did he say whether microsoft buying them kind of drove them to rush towards the finish line? That might explain some of the game's shortcomings if it's the case.
We don't know why maybe money or unreal engine limitations. That wasn't triple AAA game. You could end game in 15 hours. Character Building wasn't same level like in Fallout 1 or 2.@@phoenixvance6642
A good role playing game in space … 5 mill good. I have it in PS4 Pc (the upgrade ) Just 1 thing I don’t like The lack of weird stuff Is space , cmon go crazy in the secuel
Having played most of your Games Tim it is almost a shame Outer Worlds is your best selling game. I deeply regret the buy to be honest, outright hate it, sorry to say. Anyway, the marketing worked, that is true and this got better over time in the industrie overall. Using different marketing channels, better ideas, better trailers and so on. Often the marketing covers up pretty bad gameplay with effective Pr BS.
Hey Tim. As cynical as it may sound, I still think you got treated dirty by 'Private Division'. And I think the customers got treated dirty as well. The whole marketing campaign flushed down the toilet at the last minute with a 'PC Storefront Exclusivity' deal was rotten. Yes, I am still angry about that. Because it's just another story of Publishers screwing over people at the prospect of a bit of cash up front.
Exclusivity is frustrating, but I wasn't personally upset by waiting longer to get it on a different storefront. I don't blame them as those kinds of deals are lucrative and can help devs that need the capital
@@phoenixvance6642 Ok, let's make one thing clear. When there's a Publisher in the mix, they take all the money. So no, the Developer sees non of the money from that deal. The only point of such deals is to remove choice from the customers. In cases of 'timed exclusivity', the target demographic are people with low patience, like children. It's shady from start to finish. Whoever told you "It helps the Devs" is full of shit.
I feel like a lot of fans ran with the “it’s New Vegas but in space” idea. Unfortunately that didn’t quite pan out and I think it hurt the game in retrospect.
That was a fan issue, and not a creator issue though. High expectations vs what you end up with is always a big issue with games these days it seems. Just look at Starfield. I had a good time play Outer Worlds but I was left with a, "I want more", but I never replayed the game although I probably should one of these days with a different character build. What made FNV so great wasn't just the base game though, but the dlc as well, such sa lonesome road. Expanding the scope of the game a lot, and replayability.
Honestly it lacked in the part. Still was a fun game, though.
oh absolutely it did, i stopped playing it the first time because it wasn't. i went back later without thinking of it like that and it was incredible.
@@RuffsterBut it was THEM who put "From the creators of Fallout" on the trailer. I think its both marketing and players fault tbh
Sounds like Starfield not being Skyrim in space
I purchased a physical copy the day it came out and absolutely loved it.
I don't make games nor have any interest in making a game but these videos are super insightful and fun to watch! Thanks for all that you do
Hello Tim I just wanted to say im currently on another playthrough of Outer Worlds and I think I love it more each time I play it. Ive been on a space kick recently after just having yet another affair with the Fallout Franchise and ive been bouncing back between Outer Worlds and Starfield. I watch/listen to your videos as i get ready for work because it calms me and i just want to thank you for your contributions to the world in which we live. "It's not the best choice, it's Spacer's Choice."
The ads were great! Loved the "false choice" Ellie ad, which was hilarious. The one featuring The Passenger captured the feel of the game, too.
"If you're not making a game it's because you don't want to"
hey, you nailed it. No interest in making a game. Regardless, I do like hearing your thoughts on making games, it's interesting.
rough generalization, I'm not doing it because it's difficult
One of my favorite games of all time, really enjoyed the storytelling of the game. The Characters are very charismatic, even the villains. Really looking forward to the second game
I’ll admit I was really soured on Outer Worlds due to the last minute change to Epic exclusivity. It wasn’t till I saw that it had ended up a publishers decision and not Obsidians that I decided to give it a chance.
I’d ask about your thoughts on Epic exclusivity from a game developer standpoint but I can guess it’d probably be a no comment situation.
He told in another video that they completely didn't know and it was solely a publisher's decision
Oh man, I completely forgot about the Epic exclusive thing. I have not followed EGS news in forever, so I'm not even sure if I want to install it yet, not that I'm in a big hurry to install yet another launcher.
TOW is one of my favorite games and I'm so excited for TOW2
I was able to pick up Outer Worlds on the Epic Game Store giveaway over Christmas and I’m totally absorbed into it now. I really regret not buying it sooner and I’ve been recommending it to friends I know that have similar tastes. I do think the marketing may have had something to do with that. I tried No Man’s Sky and wasn’t really able to get into it. I never played any of the new Fallouts (3/4/76) so don’t really have a reference frame to compare there, but I’m all about the meaningful dialog choices. I love that I can attack ANY npc (something I know Tim has ranted about not being possible in other games). I love stealing items and unfortunately have a bit of a looter/hoarder mentality 😅 that’s forcing me to explore and loot every nook. I am a huge Borderlands 2 fan and love that the comedic tone is (at least somewhat) similar but toned down in a more realistic way. Side note, the way some of the marauders charge remind me suspiciously of psychos. I love the companion system, I wasn’t expecting that from this game and the depth of the interactions with the companions is excellent.
It’s really hard for me to get into most modern AAA games due to the lack of player agency.
Thanks Tim for making yet another great game (I have fond memories of playing Fallout 1 as a child) and this channel is a tremendous resource. I tinker with game development as a hobby and have watched most all of your videos. I love hearing the stories regarding business and management as those are more relevant to my 9 to 5 job, and coping with life in general. Anyways, thanks again and for making this channel available!
Hey Tim. You've given me joy and smiles listening to you talk the last few months. At times these videos can be very cathartic. Thank you for being a bright light in other people's lives.
The "Spacers Choice" in-game ad was really good. It has that knack of getting stuck in your head. Quite often when I look at a product that's ok, but not great, the tune plays in my head. It's what can be referred to as annoyingly catchy. That pitch was the most fun commercial I've heard in years and it's not even real, just an in-game semi serious joke. Love it.
I can't wait for Outer Worlds 2. I really enjoyed the first one.
Hey Tim, might be a weird question, but after thumbing through some online job websites for game creation related job listing. I was curious, how do these game studios work in terms of actually physically getting people together to work on a project? Does a studio just have an office location and hope that potential talent is within commuting distance of that office? Do studios offer relocation deals? For your career in various studios, how long did you have to commute to get to the office every-day?
I know it's a weird question, but the logistics of the whole thing perplex me a bit. Feels like alot of studios would basically be "talent locked" depending on what place the office is, since how many people are going to uproot their life to work somewhere potentially completely different than where they currently are, especially if they have a family and kids, etc.
I've kind of been realizing the potential difficulty that fully-remote work can be for a collaborative creative effort like game creation. So I'd imagine many places still prefer the physical team over a most/fully remote team. Thanks for reading, if you do.
I really liked my hype level pre outer worlds release. I had to get it on pc xbox (game 2 of only 2 not found in my steam library), so i was absolutely at 'fomo activated'. I felt like, everything i saw just looked so lovingly crafted. It wasnt New Vegas in Space, it is something special. Also, Rizzo's for life, im just putting that here. Whoa, whoa whoa, its Rizzo's!
We were lucky in the UK to have a tonne of computer mags in the 80's and early nineties. Every different type of computer had at least one, usually multiple, titles. There were others that covered multiple platforms. Every one seemed to come with demo tapes/disks. Some even had basic programming tutorials for simple games.
Best game I’ve played in a vary long time, thank you Tim, you’re story telling and nuanced view on philosophy is something allot of writers dream of having
I gave a shot to this game this week. I love it! It's like the familar BGS formula I've always loved but with some great evolutions, like the way you mamage your companions an their quests. It really reminded me of Mass Effect.
I had never heard of The Outer Worlds till I saw it on PS+ and downloaded it because I was so disappointed with Fallout 4. (Also, I had never played a Fallout game before Fallout 4 because you can't on PS5) I never looked back. I absolutely love The Outer Worlds man. Thanks for making a great game.
the games premise did seem perfect for marketing tbh, glad they pulled it off as well as they did :)
The ads for Outer Worlds did so much for that game. They really really are top tier and show how the game actually feels to play.
Tim you are awesome. I freaking loved the outerworlds. I bought it day one and was NOT dissapointed
I loved TOW so much, I cannot wait to play the sequel.
"You can make the best gsme in the world but if noone knows about it, noone will play it". I said the exact same thing during a careers day presentaion lol. Its so true.
I still go back to some of the more ridiculous dialogs, particularly "accusing oneself" for a laugh when I need it. Thanks for the game. Love the mix of tones and ideas.
Currently playing outer worlds for the first time and I love it so far way better than StarField in my opinion
I had to comment again because of something you said about being mislead by marketing.
I bought Fallout New Vegas because I saw the commercials with the Ranger shooting an Anti-Material Rifle while on top of the “Welcome to New Vegas” sign. I hadn’t played a big RPG before, or any games with choice and consequences. I thought I was getting this high octane action packed shooter lol. But that game opened my eyes to RPGs and I went on to play fallout 1,2, and 3 and became a life long fan.
I didn’t think the marketing was misleading or anything, I think it was good at attracting a new audience to a franchise that was just recently rebooted and shoved into the limelight.
But the marketing for The Outer Worlds was amazing as well. I loved that violent Femmes song! It fit perfectly. And because the ads understood the humor I could tell “yup, this is Tim and Leonard!” So I pre-ordered it immediately.
Why would you pre-order a game lmfao
"Corroboration" i think was the word you were looking for.
Thanks for the video, I'm dreading having to deal with that for my games because my first couple at least will have effectively no budget at all. I need all the advice i can get on it.
Whoever decided to use TOW’s Twitter as the board was such a genius idea, still think about it whenever I think about the game lol
Hiya, Tim! Cool insight, and I loved the in-game jingles and ads because they felt more fun and less like advertising. It was obvious you guys did them for that reason and not because marketing asked.
It's a bummer a lot of the cool stuff is proprietary and you can't talk about it, though. Would you mind discussing making dev tools for other devs and "the pipeline" in general? As much information about those topics you're willing to share would be greatly appreciated. I highly value your knowledge and experience in this industry. Thanks for all you do!
It's interesting to hear how involved with the marketing you were. That sounds like a developers/directors dream, being able to ensure marketing is accurately reflecting their vision for the game.
With that in mind, I'd being curious to exactly how involved you were. Yousay you don't think anyone was misled, but I will say I do think there was a slight expectation created that the game would be a New Vegas 2 (but in space) which it wasn't quite. (It was it's own thing and stands so well on its own merits). That idea I think was reinforced I think with a lot of heavy marketing involving 'FROM THE ORIGINAL CREATORS OF FALLOUT!' and 'THE DEVELOPERS OF NEW VEGAS!'. Was that a concsious choice from you and Leonard, or was it something the marketing team added to help launch the new IP based on Tim/Leonard/Obsidian legacy?...
Can't wait for outer worlds 2!!
we can assume development is going well by how unstressed Tim appears to be in these videos
@@massivive To be fair he's stated he's only working part-time and winding down his career. I doubt he's doing anything all that intense.
I already had played it but when I saw that guy on youtube make that song about Outer Worlds it was so good it made me want to go play it again.
Hey Tim, a related question:
In any of the studios have piracy been a big factor in some way? Or was that taken off your chest and you concentrated purely on the game creation aspects?
That is a great question
IIRC he said before in an interview with Alper Caglar that piracy was something they expected and accepted as an outside factor (though he said that they were underestimating it because they considered mass scale file sharing to be impractical at the time), though it's possible that his opinions on it changed over time.
I first heard about The Outer Worlds from listening to music on a twitch stream and asking the chat about what the music was because I thought it was so good. Turns out x5_PiG
was playing the The Outer Worlds Soundtrack in the background. Marketing can be subtle like that.
Martin genuinely had me belly laughing, gripping my sides, wanting to tell people to play the game because I spent a solid 10 minutes just cackling playing through the dialogue.
No other type of game makes the dialogue trees the thing people are talking excitedly about
There is a lot of stuff that end up on Steam that is just quick asset flips though. I wouldn't mind a copy of Arcanum when Tim done tinker with it though. I still have my old game box on the shelves behind me. -)
I have learned about Fallout from a demo that was on a game magazine CD. Played it, and then got the full game. But studios are not that keen on offering demos anymore, and rather show curated trailers.
I absolutely love Moonman’s songs❤️
I love this game. Thank you for this! It’s my most played game on switch.
7:50 I believe the word is "synergy"
That’s it! Thank you
How are you still not on Geforce NOW? Amazing.
Starfield brought me back to this game and I really appreciated it more after coming back. Love the evil options and it's an RPG that has actual role playing elements which feels weirdly uncommon for RPGs these days.
finally played it Tim. Never grabbed me because it ran like CRAP on the xbox when it first came out/ but now on my own built computer. holy crap. already did 2 playthroughs in 5 days and now doing supernova playthrough
If your just building a game for a personal portfolio and its never going to be sold; should you still make a teaser or pitch video to hype-up your game, even if the video is only shown on the portfolio?
Asking for a friend. ;)
Pros:
* Good practice.
* Can hype recruiters.
* Open to feed back.
Cons:
* Can't see much in terms of returns.
* Could have a negative effect if your not as good.
You absolutely should. Learning how to present your own game, its core features, main strengths in a short gif image or 30 sec trailer is one of the most important skills for an indie developer.
id just like to leave my impression on The Outer Worlds. Loved everything about it, EXCEPT the gunplay, as if felt so much the enemies were bullet sponges. Even more than in Fallout 4. That's it. Loved everything else about it.
Hi Tim, do you ever miss some forms of marketing? For example ads in gaming journals, promo copies of games in cereal boxes, or maybe the game boxes themselves (they used to be huge to attract more attention on the shelf).
The Outer Worlds has steam sales of $23 million according to VG Insights
It seems like you had really great marketing team, congrats! That didn't prevent people from thinking TOW will be "F:NV in space", as few other people already mentioned. Being in IT, I still can't understand the position of marketing in games industry. It's often said that marketing budget is 1-2x game budget, which would be insane anywhere else. How come other industries and companies are so obsessed with cutting the middleman and reducing costs of doing business, while games industry allowed marketing to gain such a strong position and it became such huge money sink?
My guess would be that it's harder to let quality games build up an audience, as the games will become old and not as graphically impressive as time goes by, so people will pay less for them. So marketing would be needed to get more people to buy while the title is hot.
Because it follows Hollywood model of marketing. spend double the budget to drive one time sales.
Hey Tim,
I launched The Outer Worlds via Windows (Xbox?) Game Pass, the streaming service, and despite modern hardware and a solid wired internet connection; I could not get a stable frame rate.
What are your thoughts on these services/technologies? Sony, Nvidia, Google, Amazon etc. has competing versions of game streaming and I was thinking that there may be a problem with bad tech misrepresenting a developer's game due to the host's deficiencies.
Thanks!
Derek
I literally just bought it on Switch 2 days ago. I have a PS3 and was loving New Vegas but can’t finish due to my save file being to big.
It’s really nice playing a game from the last decade lol.
I feel like Outer Worlds is *better* than Vegas with some under-the-hood elements but the writing is a little dumbed down in how it analyzes economic systems.
I’m very excited for the sequel. Hopefully the writing encapsulates ethics, philosophy and economics as well as New Vegas did, and then we’re gonna have a GOAT game
I'm also playing it for the first time now on switch. It's like a hybrid between kotor and new vegas and i love it. i admit i prefer this over new vegas so far. kotor 2 is still my favorite obsidian game since i grew up with it, but they really improved companion interactions this time. kotor 2 didnt even have companion quests if i remember right. both kotor2 and new vegas owed almost everything to their predecessors. This time around obsidian built a new franchise, so there was no pre-established lore or recycled assets, which is why I'm hopeful that the sequel will be even better so long as the direction stays the same
Marketing for and quality of ToW were good, I bought 2 copies (for me and friend) and Spacer's Choice Edition (still need to play it). I liked the trailers, the biggest shame was Epic Games deal.
| do hope ToW2 will be/do better!
There's a corollary question, which is, if "spending money on a marketing team is money well spent", then what's the (specific) least-worst way to increase discoverability for the devs whose budget is zero dollars?
If you have no budget for marketing, then I hope you have good self-made trailers, get good reviews, and have people playing and enjoying the game in streams. It's all about reaching people, so that they know your game exists and that they think it's a game they'd like to play.
Just a thought. Kindly don't consider this advice, but merely a report of what I've seen with my very own eyes.
Alpha. When it's in a playable state, you might consider releasing it to the interested for alpha testing. Approach those social media "influencers" (a two-edged sword, to be sure) playing alphas similar to or in the genre of your game. (Yes. Some, e.g. Fooster, are even playing games that are in an alpha state.) The "professional" marketing can come later when the game is close to being ready for final release. In the meantime, your game will be pulling in revenue from those who buy it (at a less-than-market price, of course) in its alpha state and beyond.
7 Days to Die, Green Hell, Subsistence, Mist Survival. All of these games either started out with a Kickstarter (or similar) campaign and were/are sold in their alpha states. Green Hell, at least, actually has seen finall release while 7DTD has sold 16 million copies despite that it's still in alpha. A lot of gamers love to be in on the development of games even if they don't influence said development. Watching them grow and change over time is its own reward. Some of these games even have been in development for a decade or more and have had people following their dev streams, etc. religiously. (I'm not one of those people who follow them quite that closely, but those who do are out there.) There are even UA-camrs dedicated to them exclusively. Their audiences may not all be as large as Fooster's, but if I could find them, anyone could.
[Spoiler Warning] An awful lot of people are, frankly, sick to death of industry shenanigans and effectively have switched to playing games such as these in development by independent studios and, even, one or two man teams in order to support them in their endeavors. Everyone still loves an underdog.
Talk about it in rarly stages and share alpha builds around. Minecraft got popular because Notch posted it on /v/ back when he was just doing it for fun, and it gained traction from there because it was good and fun. Just make something good and genuinely share it with people who will probably like it too.
@@eponymous3784 Authenticity and genuineness are qualities that top my personal list of qualities to look for in everyone and everything. Are you suggesting, though, that programs like Steam's shouldn't exist/developers shouldn't participate in them and/or hope for some revenue from a game currently in development? So many questions have been asked of Tim about what to do if one has little to no budget. An alpha test run is at least one way to get a revenue stream coming in that can be put into continued development of the game without the developer going bankrupt, personally or otherwise, in the process.
There is a dark and light side to everything and alpha programs such as Steam's are no exception to the rule. I voiced the concern on another thread that asset stores and the like would result in the market being flooded with little more than modifications of software tutorial "projects" and there's no question in my mind that there are quite a few of those on Steam, but I don't think that should dissuade a developer from trying to get their game out there and played and talked about and a supportive community formed around it; etc. I wouldn't think "the earlier, the better" because it's painfully obvious that reviews of various games in an alpha state on Steam are generally penned by players who apparently think they're playing a finished product despite plentiful warnings that they're not. It should be in a playable state...with maybe a little panache
I enjoy seeing played and/or playing games in development for the same (and only) reason I watch "Let's Plays" on occasion: to get a feel for the game so I can determine whether or not it might be something I'd enjoy and want to invest time and money in myself.
I knew the martketing of Outer Worlds from IGN, and I think you both did a good job of scoping down what the game was/isnt. It's sad to me that so many people didn't watch that marketing, and just went in bull-heading about it being "Fallout New Vegas 2".
Tim, could you comment on the comparisons to Fallout New Vegas present in the marketing of the Outer Worlds? There is a debate online about this. On one side, you have the people insisting the devs at Obsidian never made such comparisons and blame it on the marketing team/publisher. Yet your testimony seems to indicate the devs, or at least you, were involved in the marketing to a significant extent.
Hey Tim!
Do you have any opinions on Software Design patterns that are commonly used in game development?(Singletons, Observers, etc.). Are there patterns that are commonly used that you think shouldn't be? or Patterns that should be used more frequently but are not?. Do YOU have any patterns that you always use? or would like to use more in your projects?
Thank you!
Does anyone remember which video or ad had Blister in the sun as music? I don't remember any using the Violent Femmes, and I looked around but couldn't find it....
It's The Outer Worlds: Spacer’s Choice Edition - Official Trailer
Hey Tim, are you familiar with the developer podcast community? Do you have any recommendations for game development podcasts?
I have to admit that I didn't like Outer Worlds. The humor, or perhaps the amount of it, really was not for me. I tried playing it a number of times and never made it off the first planet.
But to tie this into the video instead of just being randomly negative, I knew the game wasn't for me from the marketing so I never bought it. I didn't expect it to be my kind of game which I think is a sign of good marketing. It made it really clear what the game was.
I ended up trying the game well after it launched just to try it and yeah it wasn't for me. But after watching Tim's videos I may end up going back to it as a study on game design.
I kept on getting confused between The Outer Worlds and another game, Outer Wilds. I wonder if they benefitted a lot from that confusion with your great ads.
Tim, would you consider giving the online coding MMO Screeps a go? Currently having a lot of fun with that game.
I'd remove the superfluous word ”online” if I didn't irrationally dislike having an ”edit” stamp next to my comment.
Hey. Got a question. When you gaming do you have fun and immerse yourself in the world? Or because of that you worked in game dev you look at games with issues and you think what went wrong in that game, what you as a programer could do better ? What i mean is do you have moments when you dont wonder about technicals and just play the game, like a normal consumer who buy a game and just play. Sorry for my english.
Sometimes I can immerse myself in a game. Usually those moments happen because of unusually good writing or novel situations, that take me out of my usual “let’s analyze this game” mode. It’s rare, but it happens. And I savor those moments.
@@CainOnGames What was the last game that you immers yourself in? If that's not a secret.
Hey Tim, had a question.
For me when it comes to Ideas or concepts I have for some short stories, the ideas I initially have at the beginning always change as I think more and more about, by the time I'm done it's sometimes a night and day difference. So I wanted to ask, in your games, has there ever been an idea you had at the beginning, but dramatically changed by the end of the project?
Oh, I remember the day the Iggy Pop trailer dropped. One of my few over 1k comments.
7:52 Synergy?
Failure to recall popular buzzwords will go onto your performance review.
Alright Tim, I’ve started working on my CRPG mech warrior game.
Right now I’m just doing basic combat to hopefully attract a real programmer.
The long term goal is you’ve got to travel between towns in a mech because the world is irradiated, and mech combat is twin stick shooter style. Instead of traditional RPG character stats, the mech gets upgrades. In towns you’re on foot and mostly doing social things. On foot combat is envisioned as possible but you are very squishy outside your mech
Not a marketing video but still getting me to check out The Outer Worlds nonetheless XD
Nice shirt! Is there merch for the game now? I tried to find some like when the game first came out and only found knockoffs.
Yes, the Microsoft store has TOW merchandise
FUCKING REAL TRUTH, GOOD SHIT
I love the fact that your artwork meant to parody marketing in late stage capitalism resonated well with the marketing department
Yeah I don't think lot of indie devs are going to be spending any amount of money marketing.
Lol, making a marketing campaign and brand promotion about the game taking place in dystopian future where marketing campaigns and brand promotions are everything. That is so ironic and meta! 😁
7:55 Collaboration?
The design choice of Outer Worlds is that the game autosaves BEFORE you go through a door, not afterwards. Which means that on supernova you have to double load every time you die, once to load the save, the second to go through a door and load the area.
Also gotta say there are no money sinks worth mentioning. I'm what, level 27 right now and I have 50K bits. I'm guessing players are expected to tinker thousands of bits into their guns to get a few extra damage points or something?
Hi Tim
Hi Tim. I spent a lot of time watching yours videos and i noticed that couple of times you said something like "It's sad that nothing ever hapened with that game" "it never came out" "it's only a demo that remains" It make me sad too. And my point is don't you wanna make your very own game? Last RPG from Tim Cain before you fully step out of a buissnes? After all these years, experience and all knowledge you have you could do this. RPG of your dreams with all fresh ideas becouse im sure of it you have some new perspective on how to handle RPG nowdays. Does it come to your mind ever? Or you just make couple of contracts and done ?
only game i've ever purchased on the epic store.
about fallout you talk about thinks that shouldnt be on the game because it dint fit (like the terminator), can you talk about thinks that didnt fit in the outer world , it probably wont be on the second game
The marketing was good for sure but if we are honest, being able to put „from the original creators of Fallout“ front and center probably created half of the sales on its own.
ı with it was pc dvd version. ıneed to make illegal copy of the game pc physcal disc version bcouse digital store versions not work future. gamer choice. if you make good game and give demo on steam makatting basicly demo splash picture need to reflect game good. its not hard to find that way. but picking game from physcal shelfs or demo discs never beaten. in that way it not easier.
Not like that it matters, but from what I remember the first time I saw info about the Outer Worlds I was kinda put off bc it looked too much like "Fallout in space" in terms of aesthetics, particularly Bethesda's Fallouts. Ofc being related to Fallout was the point, but, eh... Having playing the game I'd say it's different enough.
Only later when I saw the Art Nouveau things I realized that it might be aesthetically interesting for me and then I checked that Tim and Leonard were actually involved so I decided to buy.
Idk, I'm probably too "elitist" to like the same thing over and over, but on global scale people rather like more of the same thing that was good, so this approach is justified.
Really enjoyed the short journey of outer worlds, i finished the game without even activating the robot on the ship. Please keep the game around 20hrs , enjoy the short playtime for the first one
congrats on 5mill mr cain
SPOILER
THANK YOU FOR LETTING ME KILL THE BOUGEOUS FROM THE FIRST CITY
What Tim is clearly unaware of is this uprise of predatory advertising agencies within the indie gaming scene. Sure, if you're sitting on a pile of cash north of 5-6 figures, you can simply contact a marketing firm. However, if your budget is extremely low or nonexistent being you're indie, you'll find yourself being contacted by firms offering ZERO money down but take a large percentage of your game's success as well as leaving you holding the bag and in their debt if it isn't. For indie devs, marketing comes down to the right social platform, hard work and luck.
Do you mean cloud gaming, or was it installed on a device? Because cloud gaming will never be good. I played on xbox series x. I had no issues.
I really disliked the outer worlds VS every other game you and obsidian have done. The comedy was stale not really to my taste but art was the worst part, characters looked very cookie cutter and could have used way more hairstyles and face types. However the combat and design systems are pretty good but the "Social media marketing" where the game was compared to fallout 76 and capitalized off 76 being a train wreck and everyone was like "This is what fallout should be" "This is how you make a proper rpg" that was what sold me. I don't believe I would have bought the game if 76 never happened so things like that also are worth noting since I know a lot of people also bought it to make a "statement". I do not see myself buying the sequel unless it was something totally crazy and had tons of mechanical elements and systems to make up for the story. I would also like to note that I never even seen most of the marketing. I knew fallout NV was fun and pillars one was fun and F fallout 76.
I would expect Obsidian to be a company that can look at the shortcomings of OW and use outer worlds 2 to revise and expand on things. Personally, above all, i hope modding tools are shared with the community, but I also hope to see toggle 3rd person and some more immersion and exploration improvements: much more diverse set of weapons, enemies, and outfits like was seen in new vegas. I never finished OW1 and haven't touched it in a couple years, but I will be going back and trying it again
I guess that explains why humor in The Outer Worlds felt like a bunch of marketing execs laughing at their own jokes in a boardroom.
I'm not sure the intent quite matched up with the expectation.You'd expect that it would, considering, but I honestly felt the humor just a bit out of date. Watched a few episodes of Let's Plays to get a feel for it and decided the game just wasn't for me. (And that's all. I'm sure it was a lovely game, but something about it just felt a bit off.) Glad it did well, regardless.
Seems a lot of people have been trying to put their finger on just what that "just a bit off" entails. (See Noah-Caldwell Jervais' coverage, for example.) But can't...quite...do it.
I suspect that's only because we've been through so much in the past decade or so.
@@lrinfi I got about halfway into it before realizing there wasn't much that kept me wanting to play.
It *is* hard to put into words because I bought the game expecting to love it.
If I were to even try... This could just be my inner 12 year old speaking but maybe it's because it lacked edge. It didn't have that bitter nihilism of an 80s action movie like, say, Fallout did. It was nihilistic, but in a detached, ironic way. Maybe the game should've taken itself more seriously. Humor is fine but it doesn't stand out when everything's silly. In Fallout there are times to laugh and times to feel dread. Bad guys in Fallout act like scary bad guys. Bad guys in TOW act like Captain Planet villains.
@@deathsheadknight2137 Definitely reminds me of Tim saying he wanted the orignal Fallout to end with a party and baloons while Leonard Boyarsky wanted it to end...uh, quite a different way.
What a great team! Kinda reminds me of Laverne and Shirley, actually. I'll never forget Shirley saying, "Keep your hands off my baloon, Laverne!"
Classic.
@@lrinfi Lightning in a bottle I guess. The perfect combination of people, in the right mindset and at the right time, like Terminator, Star Wars, etc.
I loved the Outer Worlds but it seems to me like it REALLY suffered from the marketing focusing so much on the Fallout connection. Forums are full of players who came in hoping to play New Vegas 2 (especially after the crappy 76 launch) and who got very upset when they didn't get that.
I got 100% of the achievements on OW, 10/10 game. That’s the comment.
I heard a saying "a good product 'helps' in sales". Yeah...
Still better than Bethesda's Starfield.
True.
Omg ads attack from Tim like it was ign😮
I was a bit disappointed in Outer Worlds but have come back to it after the sickening mess that was Starfield, OW is not that bad 😊
Tim Outer Worlds could be better, game was good but I miss some rpg elements. More challanging itemization, game could be longer. I know its easy to say and harder made.
Did he say whether microsoft buying them kind of drove them to rush towards the finish line? That might explain some of the game's shortcomings if it's the case.
We don't know why maybe money or unreal engine limitations. That wasn't triple AAA game. You could end game in 15 hours. Character Building wasn't same level like in Fallout 1 or 2.@@phoenixvance6642
A good role playing game in space … 5 mill good. I have it in
PS4
Pc (the upgrade )
Just 1 thing I don’t like
The lack of weird stuff
Is space , cmon go crazy in the secuel
Having played most of your Games Tim it is almost a shame Outer Worlds is your best selling game. I deeply regret the buy to be honest, outright hate it, sorry to say. Anyway, the marketing worked, that is true and this got better over time in the industrie overall. Using different marketing channels, better ideas, better trailers and so on. Often the marketing covers up pretty bad gameplay with effective Pr BS.
Why TOW had no third person or longer content :(?
Hey Tim.
As cynical as it may sound, I still think you got treated dirty by 'Private Division'.
And I think the customers got treated dirty as well. The whole marketing campaign flushed down the toilet at the last minute with a 'PC Storefront Exclusivity' deal was rotten.
Yes, I am still angry about that. Because it's just another story of Publishers screwing over people at the prospect of a bit of cash up front.
Exclusivity is frustrating, but I wasn't personally upset by waiting longer to get it on a different storefront. I don't blame them as those kinds of deals are lucrative and can help devs that need the capital
@@phoenixvance6642 Ok, let's make one thing clear. When there's a Publisher in the mix, they take all the money. So no, the Developer sees non of the money from that deal.
The only point of such deals is to remove choice from the customers. In cases of 'timed exclusivity', the target demographic are people with low patience, like children.
It's shady from start to finish.
Whoever told you "It helps the Devs" is full of shit.
@@martinatzejensen6787 oh :c
My biggest gripe with The Outer Worlds is how many people didn't realize Outer Wilds was a different game and missed out on it.
And now one of the writers for Outer Wilds is working on Outer Worlds lol.