Quick update. Because of all the travel I've been doing, we're a little behind on our preparation for the Metal Gear Solid podcast. So, next week we're going to bump up our release of the Nausicaa of the Valley of the Wind podcast for the Wednesday release, then will proceed to Metal Gear Solid the week after. We hope you enjoyed the FFX series! Looking forward to diving into the rabbit hole of MGS soon!
Thanks for your time guys, Coming back to Dream Zanarkand and the thought of a time loop. This is just an idea, but society ended when the war came to a close and Sin was created. Sin stood for the end of the old Zanarkand, but also for the it's survival in a new form (Dream Zanerkand) In the opening scene it looks like the dream is returning to Sin maybe this is necessary to restart the dream / memories of the fayth ?
Casen is so passionate about interpreting this art I am almost inclined to believe him even though to me it's just one of grandmas abstract knitted blankets
I'm sad to see this end, but FFX is so important to me and I've loved the thoughts and reactions to the game. It's been a blast, and like with past episodes, I hope I can share any potential thoughts I had.
Just to add to Casen's Mandala, the 16 "ribbon" type things on the edge of the Mandala I think could represent the different locations you go to during the game 1. Baaj 2. Besaid 3. Kilika 4. Luca 5. Mi'ihen Highroad 6. Mushroom Rock Road 7. Djose 8. Moonflow 9. Guadosalam 10. Thunder Plains. 11. Macalania 12. Bikanel 13. Bevelle 14. Calm Lands 15. Gagazet 16. Zanarkand And then Dream Zanarkand is in the middle, as if the plight and struggles of these locations (Spira) prop up the existence of Dream Zanarkand, with the Fayth - praised by and worshipped by these locations - making it possible
That 'Square Enix is Shinra' comment was so funny. I remember going to the Square Enix Café in early 2020 before the pandemic and before the release of FF7 Remake. They were selling a bunch of Shinra merchandise and uniforms with the Shinra logo, which is so weird to me. :D
Playing ffx with my mom who never played a video game before- I told her about what was said in this podcast and it made her want to experience the game
For the question about how the Fayth seem to reproduce: I've always interpreted it as basically Zanarkand exists in a state where the same people are reincarnated essentially to an extent, but aren't the same always. So perhaps years before he was born, Jecht was someone else, and when he "died", the Fayth dreamed of a new version of him after. That, or they make vague shapes of people and as part of their growing desire to be free, they stop putting effort into making them the same.
Thank you guys for all the hard work! when it comes to if Dream Zanarkand is a real place if you talk to Ifrit's fayth after Yunalesca he says "Sin swam in the sea near Zanarkand. Perhaps the waking dream eased its suffering. Your father touched Sin and became real that night, foundering in the seas of Spira. How sad now, that he is caught in the tragic spiral. He is Sin. He is lost.""
The mandala explanation was fascinating, and I would be interested to hear from the designer to know exactly what was intentional and what was a happy accident (a little Barthes death of the author). But one thing I thought might be intentional, is that the symbol standing above the "X" symbolizing the summoner's death is also a cross or plus sign. You discussed earlier that this type of symbol was heavily within Tidus' character design, specifically the cross without the elongated bottom section. It might be a stretch, but maybe this could reference the fact that Tidus saves Yuna and all summoners from death. One step further, representative of the fact that he has to swap places with the summoner (Yuna) in the story, the plus symbol would then swap with the summoner symbol, meaning that the summoner symbol is now above the "X" and the plus would be below it, implying Tidus' death. For Tidus to live, the summoner must die, and for the summoner to live, Tidus must die. It would essentially reiterate that one must be sacrificed. You could even argue that this hypothetical swap would essentially cover the plus sign entirely, Tidus' death being completely overshadowed (or hidden) by the fact that the summoners may now live free of the death mark in the world of Spira (and the eyes of the people there).
My first Podcast watching you guys - definitely sticking around You guys really did justice to a game so close to our hearts, was really insightful Was an awesome ride
These podcasts have been consistently great, but I *highly* recommend the Final Fantasy 8 podcasts. I have re-listened to those countless times, and it is what birthed my passionate love for FF8. The Xenogears one was great as well, but was quite long lol
Wanted to point out something I figured you may be interested in: Yu Yevon summoned the aeon Alexander. Zanarkand scrambled is Arakzanndar. Sin functions as Yu Yevon's aeon performing as a form of Divine Judgment against arrogant magic-less humans who form civilizations and machina. Sin has the same posture as Alexander leaning on his forearms and hunchbacked Sin has buildings on his body just like how Alexander does. Alexander has originally been Babel in FF4 concept art, referencing the Tower of Babel. The parallel with Tower of Babel (Bevelle) is pretty huge here with how God punished unified mankind's technological arrogance of building a tower up to reach on par with Heaven where even floods cannot reach. God scattered mankind all across the planet and forced them into different languages. This is a lot like how Sin attacks civilizations anytime they grow too great or develop machina and resorted in machina's stigma (and emphasizes language of Al Bhed). In Yu Yevon's time, Yu Yevon was the most powerful of the magical beings and those without magic were inferior. The inferior, magicless ones developed a civilization around machina and engaged in war. As the magical ones were losing, Yu Yevon, using the power of all of its people putting them to slumber, summoned Sin/Alexander to indiscriminately attack formed civilizations and machina instinctively to protect Dream Zanarkand through Divine Judgment.
About to start this episode. Not sure if yall will see this since it's old but: I was super skeptical when you both came into the game not loving it already. Wasn't sure if you'd do it justice. Boy was i wrong to ever doubt you. This was phenomenal and added so many layers to a game I absolutely love. Thank you for this and I can't wait to relisten to this on my next play through. Fucking great job fellas. Can't wait to check out the rest of your content as well
One thing to note is Tidus waking up and swimming to the surface mirrors him waking up at Besaid near the beginning. He is "born" into the world both times from Dream Zanarkand
absolutely loved going on this journey with yall- I finally played and finished FFX as these were coming out so playing and listening along has been a blast: thanks so much!!! ♡
Hey guys, thank you so much for this podcast. FFX is my favorite game, so important to me and you guys made it even more meaningful. Im really looking forward to the next podcast series! ❤️
Note: Anima was not an available aeon until kid Seymour arrived in Zanarkand, and his mom was made into a fayth. Just a note regarding how many aeons may be required to complete the pilgrimmage.
This exact thing made me wonder if all of the Aeons are actually someone else's final summoning that failed. As in, they were never able to face or defeat Sin with them.
@@bartandaelus359 If this would have been the case I think the Al-bhed would have not tried to stop summoners from getting the final summoning specificly... They are concerned about the summoners dieing for a lost cause. Seymor himself is the perfect example that binding an Aeon onto a stone is not a lethal process... And yes, Seymor found a way out of that but I don't think Yunalesca wasn't really on board with summoners trying to trick their way out of the cicle and Show them how to create an Aeon instead of fulfilling their part in the cicle of death.
Nooooo you guys didn't talk about that last shot of Tidus in the iconic Yuna Sending FMV after all....this pyrefly sorcery been bothering me for 10+ years! =P Well, at least we got Casen's unexpectedly badass analysis of the Mandala this episode! This series has been fantastic and is undoubtedly the best FFX content on youtube (besides certain music covers, go check out Marc Papeghin's FFX prog rock haha). Bittersweet to see it come to an end but wouldn't want you guys to get more exhausted than the Fayth! As Japanese Yuna would say.... "Thank You" for all your hard work & collaboration!
Ha, thanks! Honestly, man, I couldn't make sense of it so I didn't bring it up. My guess is that they wanted him there for framing, and it has little bearing on the world or story.
@@CasenSperry No problem dude, that's fair! I guess I'm just tricking myself into thinking there's a deeper easter egg considering how much effort FMVs take, especially an iconic scene. But a purely composition explanation seems also valid, if nothing else!
Casen: "This design means this and that..." Mandala Artist: "I was just drawing something cool..." Listening to ya'll talk about this game in such depth reminds me of my high-school English teachers. Having us find meaning between every single thing in literature. lmao. All jokes aside, this is amazing. I love hearing about this stuff. And hearing how passionate you are about it just makes me more engaged. I would have never found this deep stuff on my own
This is a very good discussion. I have been following the channel prior to the name brand change and when Casen still made cover guides. Nice to see the channel is still progressing nicely and making a really good discussion on games I thought I firmly understood.
Add on top of that we've already covered what we saw before was a dream recollection....so 1000 years plus an inaccurate picture of what it was like...of course it will look different
Yeah it’s def the same building. The archway you walk through is the exact same minus the statues at the beginning. Weird that they missed that. Simple google image search would’ve fixed that lol
I usually listen to Spotify, but I needed to see what Casen was talking about lol Great video as always! 15 episodes for FFX is absolutely exciting! Mike bites his nails a lot HAHAHA get well soon :) Can't wait for Metal Gear Solid!
Ever since Casen mentioned the mandala at the beginning, I’ve been thinking about it as I played and tried to figure out what it meant. The conclusion I came to is kinda different, though I think Casen’s analysis makes pretty good sense. My take on the mandala is that it is Spira as seen through the eye or Sin, or reflected in his eye. The thrones protruding inwards to me looked like iris dilators and I initially thought they were meant to represent the fayth, who in a way enable continued existence Sin via the final aeon. Furthermore, the mandala is also a microcosm of Sin’s relationship to Spira. I caught the same thing as Casen with the corners of the square connecting to the circle, but I saw that as Sin’s encroachment and presence in Spira, it being a suffocating one. Oh and I totally forgot to mention, the first thing that made me see the circle as Sin was that it looks very similar to the form Sin took in the opening, when he sucked in Auron & Tidus. They were both brought into the center of the “eye” to be transported to Spira. Idk if there’s any legitimacy to my take on the mandala but I will concede that Casen’s analysis is definitely more thorough and likely the accurate one
Glad to see the Zanarkand dome mentioned. I always thought it was the blitzball arena, though as a kid I never made the connection between blitzball and Yevon
Been listening in on these vids while my tax season kept me busy the 2 months. Easily one of the best games I've ever played. You guys did a great job analyzing it and now I'm going to have to play back through it once my job slows down. Looking forward to a 10-2 series at some point.
Some of the Rings of the mandala also resemble Ifrit and Ixion too, one ring looks like fire and one like lightning in the order you aquire them moving outward. The small one inside the fire ring I suppose could represent Valefor. The one after lightning doesn't really look like ice... but it does look like headstones... and you get Shiva and Kill Seymor at almost the same time. Maybe the other rings could also represent the Aeons as well.
FFX has been my favourite game of all time since I first played it as an 8 year old (no, I didn't complete it as a kid). Thank you for doing such an excellent podcast analyzing it. I knew it was a game with a lot of depth but I had no idea to what extent the developers poured themselves and their ideas into it. You guys were able to bring all of that to light with the help of the community of course. Been a fan of the channel for what feels like forever (back when you first did retrospectives for FF games), this was your guys' best work that I have seen.
Hey I just wanted to apologize for a comment I made on the first video of this series (I think it was the first video), where I mentioned Auron and the flask toasting at the beginning. I didn't realize to what length you were avoiding spoilers and I didn't think that fell into spoiler territory at the time since we hardly knew very many of the characters, but I totally understand how it could be. You both did such an amazing job dancing around spoilers throughout the game and I wanted to thank you both for such an amazing journey with FFX!
Fascinating stuff with the mandala. Maybe the X in the center being in the title of the game was too obvious for you to point out, but that's the only thing I could figure out by myself.
Thank you guys for this podcast. Amazing as usual! I've always debated whether my 2nd favourite Final Fantasy (after FFVII!) is FFVIII or FFX. I enjoyed both series you've done, and after finishing this it has reminded me that FFX is simply a masterpiece. It may even be pushing for my number 1 spot!
What if the center of the mandala (the one that is a smaller mandala) is describing Yu Yevon? He is a summoner who is the center point of Spira thematically. He summons constantly and every time a new Sin is created, it adds another layer to the spiral and another zoomed in layer to the mandala. As far as the number 12, it could be the 12 active Aeons being summoned. The ten aeons in game plus Tidus and Jecht. Just a thought.
Wow, honored that my comment got screen time! Hopefully it wasn't overly ranty lol. Loved this series, guys. RE: Why the Church of Yevon is anti-machina. I wanna say that Maechen talks about this somewhere, but maybe my own memories have been warped over time and it's just my own headcanon, but it's a result of Yu Yevon's original intent with Sin to destroy *only* Bevelle, the larger, more technologically advanced city. But as Yu Yevon lost his humanity by being at the center of Sin, he forgot about Zanarkand altogether, so Sin instead just attacks any city that's somewhat large and looks technologically advanced. To what's left of Yu Yevon, there's no difference between Kilika village and Zanarkand. So it's not that Sin was created knowing it would lay waste to Bevelle as well as Zanarkand, but that the destruction of Zanarkand, and Sin/YY becoming an uncontrollable WMD was a total accident. (Sidenote: I also think that the creation of Dream Zanarkand only occurred once the Fayth realized Sin and Yu Yevon were out of control, as a way of mourning and consoling themselves, but that's a whole other bag of worms...) The church of Yevon outlawing machina is mainly a means of deterring Sin from attacking. The founders knew from Yunalesca that Sin is attracted to large cities with machina, so it became a core tenet of the religion. In general, the teachings seem to have one of two purposes: make civilization look like an unappetizing target for Sin, and to keep the people of Spira in a controllable state. Outlawing machina achieves both.
Can you please explain why you believe Dream Zanarkand was created by the Fayth only after Sin went wild? What else would the Fayth be used for if not to summon that? It does seem strange to me that Dream Zanarkand would be located in the middle of the southern sea, a whole continent away from both Zanarkand and the Fayth. I suppose it's possible they just thought it made for a good hiding spot, and as far as X-2.5 is concerned Zanarkand had bases on what would become Besaid and Baaj nearby, but I wonder if there's another reason for it.
You pass through the very same entrance way into the stadium in Zanarkand, its the same place where Tidus recovers consiousness and meets Auron after his losing his grip on the ledge as the blitzball sphere empties.
Another cool aspect of the center of the mandala is that the small square, in conjunction with the X, creates two overlapping 4’s. A square and an X both have 4 distinct points. 4, in Japanese, often symbolizes death. So two “deaths” allow for the summoner to transcend (4+4=8) death. What two party members are pivotal in Yuna finding an alternative solution? Auron, an unsent, and Tidus, who takes on the role of the sacrifice.
I never realized until this point, that Sin was a spiritual weapon with the instinct to react to/ destroy machina... in the same way that Vegnagun was a machina weapon programmed to react to/ destroy humans/heightened emotion. They are the two superweapons of the war. More yin and yang themes there!
I might've said this a little already in a previous episode's comments, but this podcast for FFX made me appreciate the game so much more than I did. I always have ranked it as my personal third favorite Final Fantasy, but replaying it this year during this podcast REALLY opened my eyes to how amazing it truly is. My two favorite Final Fantasy games, FF7 and FF8, are up there because they came out an impressionable time in my childhood when I could understand the power of storytelling in video games. I could never fully explain why FFX was #3 though, other than that I just liked it more than some of the others. Now being a much older adult, this podcast actually helped me articulate why I love it so much. You guys helped me appreciate and understand things I never picked up on before. So thanks! I'm really looking forward to MGS. I haven't played it in a very long time, but last year I watched a younger member of Kinda Funny play the first four mainline MGS games all last year, and I had a blast seeing the games through a younger person's eyes who had never played them before. And while they are dated in many respects, especially the first, it's also amazing how influential and ahead of their time they really were in so many respects. I mean, I learned about DARPA in 1999 (I played it a year after it came out) because of this game. What kid in the 90s knew about DARPA? Any kid who played MGS, that's who.
Maybe it was mentionned many time before, but the idea to run electricity to shape water is also seen in Riven: The Sequel to Myst, where water in the world of Riven react in the same way.
perhaps the flower at the centre is yu yevon and the box is sin (the armour protecting him) the x represents the fact the yu-yevon has no self control. that would mean that the church is containing it all. that would likely be the kind of mandala the church would design for propeganda
I toyed with the idea of Sin being the center of the mandala, and it can work, for sure, as Yu Yevon is a summoner, and death is at the center, and the walls are like armor. Sin even presents himself as a giant blitzball sphere, and the Mandala can be read as being blitzball for sure. That interpretation is certainly valid. But the flower imagery is so powerful on Yuna, being her character design and even her name, so I felt that Yuna transcending the world fit better there than Yu Yevon transcending the world, despite that making more sense in the world of the game. It could be that their legend of Yu Yevon has contained within it a hidden possibility that a summoner will free them all from Sin, from the inside.
Never really seen any reason to fuss over the Shinra stuff. It's not that X takes place on the same world as VII, it takes place in the same universe or galaxy. Which ultimately does not matter all that much for either game (with VII already having a more cosmic approach to worldbuilding with Jenova as an alien parasite), and is just a fun little easter egg.
Well chaps, it's a been a fascinating ride and you have managed to make my favourite game THAT much better to me! We started in familiar territory, but holy moly did you guys connect so many small dots! Mainly all the symbolism that runs through the game, art and game design I can get but even as little as the Hibiscus got my Lightbulbs glowing. The Mandala blew me away, A hardy salute to Cason for fitting the bill perfectly. Fantastic studf lads. My brain is ready for MGS. (For the record, this kinda means we ought to take Nomura a little more seriously now, eh? Hmmm...that'll be tricky)
I'm watching this 9 months later. Casen should check out elder futhark. The rune for G is an X, and the meanings for this rune in particular mirrors and expands on much of what he has said about this mandala and the themes of ffX itself. Futhark runes are interesting, being a combination of hieroglyphs, phonetic glyphs and sacred geometry. Seeing the recurring themes of norse summons, it's entirely possible Square was drawing from this as well. Love your podcasts, both of you. Thanks
Honestly I disagree on ten not leaving open the way to a sequel. Any story that ends with a massive change to the status quo of the world. Automatically leaves the question what is the world like now that it’s changed as a natural starting point for a sequel. And that is what X-2 is. You earlier criticized it as a never ending festival but when you think about it that is probably what should happen when something as positive and world changing as the death of sin happens the next few years are going to be one big party. And even then you see the new factions of this new world forming indicating that “the party” is starting to Wind down and with it the sense of unity that everyone had.
Thank you Mike and Casen for these podcasts. 1: Not to weigh to much on X-2, but I believe that Maechen is an unsent in that game. That would fit with the symbols on his garb and with those implications from the mandala. 2: I believe that when in the farplane, pyreflies resonate with memories and dreams of people in a similar way they do with the Fayth. The result is a summoning of the person's memory. The living person acts in place of the fayth and the pyreflies replicate the person's dreams, just not as complete and the summoning is transient and temporary. However, in cases where the memory is tied to strong emotion (like Jyscal) it can manifest. But this only happens when the pyreflies have the template of the dead person already within their collective (being sent). Otherwise they wouldn't be able to recreate the dream. 3: Is it ever explained HOW buff daddy Jecht gets out of dream Zanarkand?
@@megamike15 Is that canon within the text of X or is that something that was added later? Because it sounds... kinda crap and not in line with what X would have done.
@40:47 One problem with this interpretation though is that only two of the maesters are dead, Seymour and Mika. Unless you intend it to foreshadow the death of Kinoc and Kelk, but this goes against the general interpretation Casen gives with respect to influence from the farplane. In any case, kudos to the interpretative skills. While some of it may be looser, there is no doubting at least some intention here.
it's a shame we didn't get to hear your guys thoughts on anima and the baaj temple as well as the temple of the stolen fayth. but lots of great great stuff thank you guys!
I am forever glad I found this podcast. FFX is one of my top 5 favorite games (possibly even #1) of all time. Have two people getting so into the story and looking at nearly every detail has been such an amazing ride. Thank you guys so much for talking about it and glad to see you guys had so much fun talking about it. whenever play X-2 I would love to see it on this podcast. Definitely gonna check out the X-2 playlist. Now to get into metal gear solid 😂👌🏻here we go
Man, I really hope they actually do play through X-2 sometime as a followup to all this. I don't think they've given it a fair shake, and I consider it to be a *great* followup to this game's themes. It's not a perfect game by any stretch... But it is I think the best Final Fantasy sequel. Creating a followup adventure in an already-saved world, with an already-complete bunch of character arcs, is nearly impossible - That's what Casen claimed in this series, and I think the developers of X-2 were in complete agreement! So instead of just more of the same, instead of a traditional FF plot, it's a game about picking up the pieces, a game about a world trying to figure out how to move on from the collapse of a thousand years of stagnation. And it's a game about a heroine trying to figure out what to DO with herself, in a world that doesn't need heroes anymore, and the answer she finds to that question. It's the mania of a people freed from thousand year old shackles, clashing with the melancholy of a world whose very heart has been ripped out, and the unhealthy extremes of both of those emotions as Spira tries to become whole once more. ...And then a giant monster threatens the world again because apparently FF isn't allowed to end without saving the world. Sigh. If it weren't for that ridiculous sudden spike in the stakes for the final boss, all my other complaints would be trivial. But... It is really hard to look past, I'll admit. It forces a bunch of stupid retcon reveals which mangle the otherwise slow-paced, much more relaxed and personal stakes of the rest of the game. X-2 doesn't trample the themes of the first, it looks PAST them, to ask new questions.
Loved the series guys really well thought out. Looking forward to mgs, snake eater was my favorite growing up with sons of liberty being a close 2nd 🤙 never played 4 though 🤔
This video format reminds me of mikes older videos, like the Final Fantasy XIII 7 part series. The new setup is nice, but I miss this old cam look for some reason. Nostalgia is weird, but not unwelcome.
Not sure if you guys have seen it but, Valkyrie Profile Leneth is getting a port to the PS4 and PS5 because the new Valkyrie Elysium game. I think it would be a great game for this podcast format, albeit with the asterisk that you need to get ending A for the whole plot. And given the fact the game is coming out in the 29th of september, there is time for you to plan for the podcast to coincide with the release of a bit after it.
@@nickburose8286 Not sure if it will, because it seems the port will be digital only, and for now it is only a bonus of the special edition of Elysium, with a promise of being sold at a later date
hearing about the zanderkand-bivell wa as they read it is interesting because that story basically sounds like a traditional jrpg story but then ffx is the aftermath and healing of all that. and though i never finished x2 it seems x2 explores the "well we saved the world now what, now who am i now that that piece of my identity has shifted so drastically" which is cool
On the Blitz all arena in Zanarkand: I do believe it's the same one. It's been a thousand years remember, I think it's entirely possible that the statues that were so iconic in the opening were simply destroyed or lost to time. It also plays the same music from the Blitzball menu which ties in very heavily to the sport as religion theory.
Honored my comment was read. It's a shame so much lore was held off for sequel stuff as I generally interpret subsequent material as being distinct. The author is longer no the same, his world has changed, and the mythos likewise reflects that. Only sequels written concurrently I find are worth holding in the same realm of canonicity. I thought we got an explanation on Gagazet when Tidus is brought back into dream Zanarkand, but it's been... Aeons. Excellent podcast all around. I loved every moment. As soon as you mentioned "exploding blitzballs," I actually said, "oh no" out loud. I remember those spoilers from the novel where Tidus's head apparently exploded and was replaced with a blitzball, or something similar.
As you get toward the center of the mandala, you said one texture was like stone. It looks more like water to me, which would represent the blitzball sphere. Regardless, your analysis of the mandala is fascinating.
Thanks for the in-depth analysis Casen. Very interesting and a lot to think about and consider and now I'm interested in learning about symbolism. Can we get a proper list of the books mentioned in the description? I'm seeing some books with similar names and not sure which author is correct.
Jung's "Man and his Symbols" is a good starting point but I also highly recommend the "Memories, Dreams and Recollections" audio book because it's so easy to listen to and gives a lot of foundational context for his ideas in other works.
The Jung works mentioned here are great. The ones I mentioned in the podcast are A Beginners Guide to Constructing the Universe, A Dictionary of Symbols, and Sacred Geometry
I think it might be too late for you guys to see this but regarding the mandala something you mention in passing is a spoiler for FFX-2 . . . . I found it interesting you mentioned one of the points reaching from the farplane into Spira could represent Maechen or his stories as his character is further developed in FFX-2 and he is also an unsent.
I wonder what Casen would think of Genshin Impact's lore. While the main story can be meandering at times, the underlining aspects of it are very intriguing.
A bit late to mention it unfortunately, but something to consider: You bring up a lot how bizarre it is that Sin has been around for a thousand years but only defeated four times, how can Spira still exist at all? I have two possible explanations. These haven't been explicitly confirmed as far as I can tell but they're implicit in the game as-is. 1: We are never /told/ that every Calm is only 10 years or so. Jecht becoming Sin may have contributed to this because usually Guardians that would accompany a Summoner who actually survived all of the overwhelming trials along the route (look how many graves are on Gagazet, etc.) would be extremely elite individuals, and given the culture of Spira likely highly trained warrior monks or something along those lines (like Auron). Jecht has been an undisciplined rowdy out of control alcoholic for all but maybe the last two months of his life before becoming Sin, so it may be that he simply doesn't have the discipline to control Sin for more than 9 or 10 years or so. It's possible someone with the kind of training "proper" Guardians would go through would last much, much longer. 2: When Sin uses that huge attack where the camera zooms out to a view from space, you can see that the planet FFX takes place on is way, way bigger than just Spira. This would imply the possibility Sin spent/spends a lot of time far away on the planet rampaging through whatever else is out there. Great series, thanks for making this!
Mike you need a day off and a good sleep ma dude. I think all of us would be more than understanding if you guys missed a week to take care of some stuff. Best series so far! Super hyped for metal gear!
In regards to why Sin hates Machina so much. To me, there was always a more practical answer, which fits with Tidus's non-religious view of things. Sin didn't hate Machina, but Sin was trying to destroy people, and technology attracts attention, making it easier for Sin to spot civilization. Due to this fact of life, people developed religious superstition or belief around technology, similar to ancient views on eating pork (or something similar). This only further spearheaded the overall criticism of religion that the story tries to convey... Not only does religion idolize sacrifice (which the Al bhed were against), but it stops human progress.
Great work another thought, the podcast talks about how Tidus and Yuna swap places and it seems strange he was so against her sacrifice but he will do the same. To me this always made sense the sacrifice was not the core issue, the central issue was it was not fixing the problem. If the final summoning could kill Sin even if it had a 5% chance I think summoners would still pilgrimage and sacrifice themselves but once it is revealed there is a 0% chance it will just becomes a new Sin the sacrifice is no longer worth it and now Tidus can make a more meaningful sacrifice.
It could be that not fixing the problem was his objection, but he didn't even really know about that until they confront Yunalesca. I think it more likely that he was opposed to her dying due to the fact that the summoners have no choice but to die in order to defeat Sin. Whereas Tidus chooses to "truly end" (in quotes here as that isnt necessarily the case) Sin and thus as a consequence of doing so, dies due to the Fayth no longer dreaming. It is similar in result but the implications are different. His death is more of a side-effect of Sin dying rather than a requirement, if that makes sense.
@@nickburose8286 interesting opinion, I often wondered how the final aeon kills the summoner. Yunalesca made Seymour's mother into the anima Fayth but she must have assumed he was going to use Anima to battle Sin. Just calling forth Anima doesn't kill Seymour so I always assumed Yu Yevon taking over the aeon caused the summoner to die as the source of the final aeons power is the bond between the Fayth & summoner. Long way of saying I think you could consider the summoner dying a side effect of beating Sin but interesting perspective thanks for the reply
This. Yuna choosing to not sacrifice herself was less about choosing to live but rather her choosing to not throw her life away for false hope. If there was *any* chance of defeating Sin permanently she would have been willing to sacrifice herself.
Just a quick note on the meta ideas in the comment at ~1:06:00 - the comment posits that all the Final Fantasy worlds are dreams of the fayth that are being cycled until the player arrives to interrupt the cycle. Here's my slightly different take: the developers (the fayth) dreamed up a game, as well as a world for that game to take place in. By playing the game, we (the summoners) are re-energizing that world and allowing it and its circumstances to take place once again. That is, we, the players, are not the vehicles for breaking the cycle, but are the very things perpetuating the cycle. The only way to break the cycle in this case is to destroy every copy of the game so it is never played again >:)
I'm positive this is canon and not my head canon. The reason why Sin attacks cities and keeps them from expanding technologically is to protect Dream Zanarkand that is located in the ocean near Baaj Temple, from discovery, from destruction etc.
That's all well and good but makes no sense at all because Sin itself destroys Zanarkand (the dream version) and thus also destroys what it seeks to protect. Also being an Aeon (if this theory is to be believed) it would regenerate or heal itself. I don't know why people need this to be a physical location. That only complicated all of this more than it needs to be. We already have inter-cosmic dimensions in the form of the Farplane AND the realm within Sin so it's hardly a stretch to say that dream Zanarkand is one too, potentially with its access point also being Sin or alternatively the peak of Gagazet. Physical Dream Zanarkand Theory is just so complicated to make work that it just bothers me seeing how hard people have to work to make it function and even then it still asks more questions than it answers. I don't really care what the Ultimania says because it's literally not in the game, it's not in the text being analysed and so cannot be included in the analysis imo. Plus, post 2001 square loves a retcon and frankly anything said after the initial release doesn't mean anything at all to me. Trying to integrate that idea in a satisfying way leads to several unsatisfying answers to me and so I reject it and subscribe to a metaphysical inter-cosmic space as dream Zanarkand instead.
@@bartandaelus359 it has to be a physical place as auron was able to get there by rideing sin. i was always under the impression it's floating as we never see the ground as casen points out in ep 2.
Is it me or does Mike's voice sound very different than his Resonant Archive videos? I mean I've followed these guys since many years ago and only seen videos of games I am purely interested in so I haven't seen every piece of content but it seems to me his voice and tone change a lot in recent videos as opposed to videos from 2 years ago and beyond.
I was under the impression that all matter of Spira was composed of pyreflies so Tidus and dream Zanarkand and aeons are composed of the same stuff as normal people and places. I guess that's not the case?
On a more a more macro level, would you rather have a hard fantasy explanation to everything or just the soft unexplained version that they were going for?
Quick update. Because of all the travel I've been doing, we're a little behind on our preparation for the Metal Gear Solid podcast. So, next week we're going to bump up our release of the Nausicaa of the Valley of the Wind podcast for the Wednesday release, then will proceed to Metal Gear Solid the week after. We hope you enjoyed the FFX series! Looking forward to diving into the rabbit hole of MGS soon!
MGS is so dense in the later games, you will need 2 episodes every hour of gameplay.
Good luck!
yes nice one looking forward on nausicaa and mgs :)
Thanks for your time guys,
Coming back to Dream Zanarkand and the thought of a time loop. This is just an idea, but society ended when the war came to a close and Sin was created.
Sin stood for the end of the old Zanarkand, but also for the it's survival in a new form (Dream Zanerkand)
In the opening scene it looks like the dream is returning to Sin maybe this is necessary to restart the dream / memories of the fayth ?
Holy crap you guys are doing Nausicaa next!? I'm so excited 😊 🤗 🤪
How far in are you guys planning on playing MGS for the first episode? Also, PS version or Gamecube?
This Mandala breakdown is the wildest black hole of a nerd lecture I have ever seen and I have seen an 8 hour video essay on Morrowind
Casen is so passionate about interpreting this art I am almost inclined to believe him even though to me it's just one of grandmas abstract knitted blankets
@@JediMimic Haha! Thank you?
I'm sad to see this end, but FFX is so important to me and I've loved the thoughts and reactions to the game. It's been a blast, and like with past episodes, I hope I can share any potential thoughts I had.
Just to add to Casen's Mandala, the 16 "ribbon" type things on the edge of the Mandala I think could represent the different locations you go to during the game
1. Baaj
2. Besaid
3. Kilika
4. Luca
5. Mi'ihen Highroad
6. Mushroom Rock Road
7. Djose
8. Moonflow
9. Guadosalam
10. Thunder Plains.
11. Macalania
12. Bikanel
13. Bevelle
14. Calm Lands
15. Gagazet
16. Zanarkand
And then Dream Zanarkand is in the middle, as if the plight and struggles of these locations (Spira) prop up the existence of Dream Zanarkand, with the Fayth - praised by and worshipped by these locations - making it possible
That 'Square Enix is Shinra' comment was so funny. I remember going to the Square Enix Café in early 2020 before the pandemic and before the release of FF7 Remake. They were selling a bunch of Shinra merchandise and uniforms with the Shinra logo, which is so weird to me. :D
Playing ffx with my mom who never played a video game before- I told her about what was said in this podcast and it made her want to experience the game
That is amazing, I hope she enjoys it!!! It's always so great to see new people showing interest in this story.
That's so cool, did she like it?
Sad to see this series end, it has been such an awesome ride and loved it through and through. Looking forward to MGS!
For the question about how the Fayth seem to reproduce: I've always interpreted it as basically Zanarkand exists in a state where the same people are reincarnated essentially to an extent, but aren't the same always. So perhaps years before he was born, Jecht was someone else, and when he "died", the Fayth dreamed of a new version of him after. That, or they make vague shapes of people and as part of their growing desire to be free, they stop putting effort into making them the same.
So there would be no way to resist the stories.... I'm so glad I stuck with FFX
Thank you guys for all the hard work! when it comes to if Dream Zanarkand is a real place if you talk to Ifrit's fayth after Yunalesca he says "Sin swam in the sea near Zanarkand. Perhaps the waking dream eased its suffering.
Your father touched Sin and became real that night, foundering in the seas of Spira. How sad now, that he is caught in the tragic spiral. He is Sin. He is lost.""
The mandala explanation was fascinating, and I would be interested to hear from the designer to know exactly what was intentional and what was a happy accident (a little Barthes death of the author). But one thing I thought might be intentional, is that the symbol standing above the "X" symbolizing the summoner's death is also a cross or plus sign. You discussed earlier that this type of symbol was heavily within Tidus' character design, specifically the cross without the elongated bottom section. It might be a stretch, but maybe this could reference the fact that Tidus saves Yuna and all summoners from death. One step further, representative of the fact that he has to swap places with the summoner (Yuna) in the story, the plus symbol would then swap with the summoner symbol, meaning that the summoner symbol is now above the "X" and the plus would be below it, implying Tidus' death. For Tidus to live, the summoner must die, and for the summoner to live, Tidus must die. It would essentially reiterate that one must be sacrificed. You could even argue that this hypothetical swap would essentially cover the plus sign entirely, Tidus' death being completely overshadowed (or hidden) by the fact that the summoners may now live free of the death mark in the world of Spira (and the eyes of the people there).
Random graphic artist that designed the mandala: "Phew. Done! Not bad for something I came up with off the top of my head!"
Or Nomura when designing the clothes: sick mandala patterns, lemme borrow a little bit here and there
My first Podcast watching you guys - definitely sticking around
You guys really did justice to a game so close to our hearts, was really insightful
Was an awesome ride
These podcasts have been consistently great, but I *highly* recommend the Final Fantasy 8 podcasts.
I have re-listened to those countless times, and it is what birthed my passionate love for FF8. The Xenogears one was great as well, but was quite long lol
Mike's just "yeah let's get this over with I feel terrible, man".
Caissen stepped-up big time.
Wanted to point out something I figured you may be interested in:
Yu Yevon summoned the aeon Alexander.
Zanarkand scrambled is Arakzanndar.
Sin functions as Yu Yevon's aeon performing as a form of Divine Judgment against arrogant magic-less humans who form civilizations and machina.
Sin has the same posture as Alexander leaning on his forearms and hunchbacked
Sin has buildings on his body just like how Alexander does.
Alexander has originally been Babel in FF4 concept art, referencing the Tower of Babel.
The parallel with Tower of Babel (Bevelle) is pretty huge here with how God punished unified mankind's technological arrogance of building a tower up to reach on par with Heaven where even floods cannot reach. God scattered mankind all across the planet and forced them into different languages. This is a lot like how Sin attacks civilizations anytime they grow too great or develop machina and resorted in machina's stigma (and emphasizes language of Al Bhed).
In Yu Yevon's time, Yu Yevon was the most powerful of the magical beings and those without magic were inferior. The inferior, magicless ones developed a civilization around machina and engaged in war. As the magical ones were losing, Yu Yevon, using the power of all of its people putting them to slumber, summoned Sin/Alexander to indiscriminately attack formed civilizations and machina instinctively to protect Dream Zanarkand through Divine Judgment.
About to start this episode. Not sure if yall will see this since it's old but:
I was super skeptical when you both came into the game not loving it already. Wasn't sure if you'd do it justice. Boy was i wrong to ever doubt you. This was phenomenal and added so many layers to a game I absolutely love. Thank you for this and I can't wait to relisten to this on my next play through. Fucking great job fellas. Can't wait to check out the rest of your content as well
One thing to note is Tidus waking up and swimming to the surface mirrors him waking up at Besaid near the beginning. He is "born" into the world both times from Dream Zanarkand
absolutely loved going on this journey with yall- I finally played and finished FFX as these were coming out so playing and listening along has been a blast: thanks so much!!! ♡
Hey guys, thank you so much for this podcast. FFX is my favorite game, so important to me and you guys made it even more meaningful.
Im really looking forward to the next podcast series! ❤️
Phenomenal podcast guys. Thank you for covering this masterpiece of a game
Note: Anima was not an available aeon until kid Seymour arrived in Zanarkand, and his mom was made into a fayth. Just a note regarding how many aeons may be required to complete the pilgrimmage.
This exact thing made me wonder if all of the Aeons are actually someone else's final summoning that failed. As in, they were never able to face or defeat Sin with them.
@@bartandaelus359
If this would have been the case I think the Al-bhed would have not tried to stop summoners from getting the final summoning specificly...
They are concerned about the summoners dieing for a lost cause.
Seymor himself is the perfect example that binding an Aeon onto a stone is not a lethal process...
And yes, Seymor found a way out of that but I don't think Yunalesca wasn't really on board with summoners trying to trick their way out of the cicle and Show them how to create an Aeon instead of fulfilling their part in the cicle of death.
Nooooo you guys didn't talk about that last shot of Tidus in the iconic Yuna Sending FMV after all....this pyrefly sorcery been bothering me for 10+ years! =P
Well, at least we got Casen's unexpectedly badass analysis of the Mandala this episode! This series has been fantastic and is undoubtedly the best FFX content on youtube (besides certain music covers, go check out Marc Papeghin's FFX prog rock haha). Bittersweet to see it come to an end but wouldn't want you guys to get more exhausted than the Fayth! As Japanese Yuna would say.... "Thank You" for all your hard work & collaboration!
Ha, thanks! Honestly, man, I couldn't make sense of it so I didn't bring it up. My guess is that they wanted him there for framing, and it has little bearing on the world or story.
@@CasenSperry No problem dude, that's fair! I guess I'm just tricking myself into thinking there's a deeper easter egg considering how much effort FMVs take, especially an iconic scene. But a purely composition explanation seems also valid, if nothing else!
You guys are legit best in the biz!
This is the almost the definitive analysis of ffx. I commend you for the level of depth in your videos, there's so much content!
Casen: "This design means this and that..."
Mandala Artist: "I was just drawing something cool..."
Listening to ya'll talk about this game in such depth reminds me of my high-school English teachers. Having us find meaning between every single thing in literature. lmao.
All jokes aside, this is amazing. I love hearing about this stuff. And hearing how passionate you are about it just makes me more engaged. I would have never found this deep stuff on my own
This was a fucking honor and a pleasure. Thanks man.
This is a very good discussion. I have been following the channel prior to the name brand change and when Casen still made cover guides. Nice to see the channel is still progressing nicely and making a really good discussion on games I thought I firmly understood.
I've been bingeing a load of podcasts from these guys over the last 2 or 3 weeks. Their analysis is great. Wish I had found them before this.
The building in Zanarkand is totally the same building, the pieces of the blitzball sphere machinery are littered all over (with Yevon icons on them).
Add on top of that we've already covered what we saw before was a dream recollection....so 1000 years plus an inaccurate picture of what it was like...of course it will look different
Yeah it’s def the same building. The archway you walk through is the exact same minus the statues at the beginning. Weird that they missed that. Simple google image search would’ve fixed that lol
I usually listen to Spotify, but I needed to see what Casen was talking about lol
Great video as always! 15 episodes for FFX is absolutely exciting!
Mike bites his nails a lot HAHAHA get well soon :)
Can't wait for Metal Gear Solid!
What a series! Great job guys! I actually played through the game with you guys and it was a lot of fun.
Ever since Casen mentioned the mandala at the beginning, I’ve been thinking about it as I played and tried to figure out what it meant. The conclusion I came to is kinda different, though I think Casen’s analysis makes pretty good sense. My take on the mandala is that it is Spira as seen through the eye or Sin, or reflected in his eye. The thrones protruding inwards to me looked like iris dilators and I initially thought they were meant to represent the fayth, who in a way enable continued existence Sin via the final aeon. Furthermore, the mandala is also a microcosm of Sin’s relationship to Spira. I caught the same thing as Casen with the corners of the square connecting to the circle, but I saw that as Sin’s encroachment and presence in Spira, it being a suffocating one. Oh and I totally forgot to mention, the first thing that made me see the circle as Sin was that it looks very similar to the form Sin took in the opening, when he sucked in Auron & Tidus. They were both brought into the center of the “eye” to be transported to Spira. Idk if there’s any legitimacy to my take on the mandala but I will concede that Casen’s analysis is definitely more thorough and likely the accurate one
9:00 Yunalesca is definitely located where the Blitzball arena was in Zanarkand.
Glad to see the Zanarkand dome mentioned. I always thought it was the blitzball arena, though as a kid I never made the connection between blitzball and Yevon
It literally plays the Blitzball menu music while inside of it.
Casen killed it, you both did such a great job on this podcast. Sad to see it end but I'm excited to see how you unpack MGS.
Been listening in on these vids while my tax season kept me busy the 2 months. Easily one of the best games I've ever played. You guys did a great job analyzing it and now I'm going to have to play back through it once my job slows down. Looking forward to a 10-2 series at some point.
Some of the Rings of the mandala also resemble Ifrit and Ixion too, one ring looks like fire and one like lightning in the order you aquire them moving outward. The small one inside the fire ring I suppose could represent Valefor. The one after lightning doesn't really look like ice... but it does look like headstones... and you get Shiva and Kill Seymor at almost the same time. Maybe the other rings could also represent the Aeons as well.
I think that's probably correct
FFX has been my favourite game of all time since I first played it as an 8 year old (no, I didn't complete it as a kid). Thank you for doing such an excellent podcast analyzing it. I knew it was a game with a lot of depth but I had no idea to what extent the developers poured themselves and their ideas into it. You guys were able to bring all of that to light with the help of the community of course.
Been a fan of the channel for what feels like forever (back when you first did retrospectives for FF games), this was your guys' best work that I have seen.
Hey I just wanted to apologize for a comment I made on the first video of this series (I think it was the first video), where I mentioned Auron and the flask toasting at the beginning. I didn't realize to what length you were avoiding spoilers and I didn't think that fell into spoiler territory at the time since we hardly knew very many of the characters, but I totally understand how it could be. You both did such an amazing job dancing around spoilers throughout the game and I wanted to thank you both for such an amazing journey with FFX!
Fascinating stuff with the mandala. Maybe the X in the center being in the title of the game was too obvious for you to point out, but that's the only thing I could figure out by myself.
Thank you guys for this podcast. Amazing as usual!
I've always debated whether my 2nd favourite Final Fantasy (after FFVII!) is FFVIII or FFX. I enjoyed both series you've done, and after finishing this it has reminded me that FFX is simply a masterpiece. It may even be pushing for my number 1 spot!
What if the center of the mandala (the one that is a smaller mandala) is describing Yu Yevon? He is a summoner who is the center point of Spira thematically. He summons constantly and every time a new Sin is created, it adds another layer to the spiral and another zoomed in layer to the mandala. As far as the number 12, it could be the 12 active Aeons being summoned. The ten aeons in game plus Tidus and Jecht. Just a thought.
mike has been the goat duh but dude casen you're the fuckin man. godspeed boys. you're doing such good shit.
Wow, honored that my comment got screen time! Hopefully it wasn't overly ranty lol. Loved this series, guys.
RE: Why the Church of Yevon is anti-machina. I wanna say that Maechen talks about this somewhere, but maybe my own memories have been warped over time and it's just my own headcanon, but it's a result of Yu Yevon's original intent with Sin to destroy *only* Bevelle, the larger, more technologically advanced city.
But as Yu Yevon lost his humanity by being at the center of Sin, he forgot about Zanarkand altogether, so Sin instead just attacks any city that's somewhat large and looks technologically advanced. To what's left of Yu Yevon, there's no difference between Kilika village and Zanarkand.
So it's not that Sin was created knowing it would lay waste to Bevelle as well as Zanarkand, but that the destruction of Zanarkand, and Sin/YY becoming an uncontrollable WMD was a total accident. (Sidenote: I also think that the creation of Dream Zanarkand only occurred once the Fayth realized Sin and Yu Yevon were out of control, as a way of mourning and consoling themselves, but that's a whole other bag of worms...)
The church of Yevon outlawing machina is mainly a means of deterring Sin from attacking. The founders knew from Yunalesca that Sin is attracted to large cities with machina, so it became a core tenet of the religion. In general, the teachings seem to have one of two purposes: make civilization look like an unappetizing target for Sin, and to keep the people of Spira in a controllable state. Outlawing machina achieves both.
Can you please explain why you believe Dream Zanarkand was created by the Fayth only after Sin went wild? What else would the Fayth be used for if not to summon that?
It does seem strange to me that Dream Zanarkand would be located in the middle of the southern sea, a whole continent away from both Zanarkand and the Fayth. I suppose it's possible they just thought it made for a good hiding spot, and as far as X-2.5 is concerned Zanarkand had bases on what would become Besaid and Baaj nearby, but I wonder if there's another reason for it.
You pass through the very same entrance way into the stadium in Zanarkand, its the same place where Tidus recovers consiousness and meets Auron after his losing his grip on the ledge as the blitzball sphere empties.
Another cool aspect of the center of the mandala is that the small square, in conjunction with the X, creates two overlapping 4’s. A square and an X both have 4 distinct points. 4, in Japanese, often symbolizes death. So two “deaths” allow for the summoner to transcend (4+4=8) death. What two party members are pivotal in Yuna finding an alternative solution? Auron, an unsent, and Tidus, who takes on the role of the sacrifice.
Hearing ya'lls retrospective made me appreciate the game even more. This game has one of the tighest and best written stories in FF.
I never realized until this point, that Sin was a spiritual weapon with the instinct to react to/ destroy machina... in the same way that Vegnagun was a machina weapon programmed to react to/ destroy humans/heightened emotion. They are the two superweapons of the war. More yin and yang themes there!
I might've said this a little already in a previous episode's comments, but this podcast for FFX made me appreciate the game so much more than I did. I always have ranked it as my personal third favorite Final Fantasy, but replaying it this year during this podcast REALLY opened my eyes to how amazing it truly is. My two favorite Final Fantasy games, FF7 and FF8, are up there because they came out an impressionable time in my childhood when I could understand the power of storytelling in video games. I could never fully explain why FFX was #3 though, other than that I just liked it more than some of the others. Now being a much older adult, this podcast actually helped me articulate why I love it so much. You guys helped me appreciate and understand things I never picked up on before. So thanks!
I'm really looking forward to MGS. I haven't played it in a very long time, but last year I watched a younger member of Kinda Funny play the first four mainline MGS games all last year, and I had a blast seeing the games through a younger person's eyes who had never played them before. And while they are dated in many respects, especially the first, it's also amazing how influential and ahead of their time they really were in so many respects. I mean, I learned about DARPA in 1999 (I played it a year after it came out) because of this game. What kid in the 90s knew about DARPA? Any kid who played MGS, that's who.
Maybe it was mentionned many time before, but the idea to run electricity to shape water is also seen in Riven: The Sequel to Myst, where water in the world of Riven react in the same way.
perhaps the flower at the centre is yu yevon and the box is sin (the armour protecting him) the x represents the fact the yu-yevon has no self control. that would mean that the church is containing it all. that would likely be the kind of mandala the church would design for propeganda
I toyed with the idea of Sin being the center of the mandala, and it can work, for sure, as Yu Yevon is a summoner, and death is at the center, and the walls are like armor. Sin even presents himself as a giant blitzball sphere, and the Mandala can be read as being blitzball for sure. That interpretation is certainly valid. But the flower imagery is so powerful on Yuna, being her character design and even her name, so I felt that Yuna transcending the world fit better there than Yu Yevon transcending the world, despite that making more sense in the world of the game. It could be that their legend of Yu Yevon has contained within it a hidden possibility that a summoner will free them all from Sin, from the inside.
Never really seen any reason to fuss over the Shinra stuff. It's not that X takes place on the same world as VII, it takes place in the same universe or galaxy. Which ultimately does not matter all that much for either game (with VII already having a more cosmic approach to worldbuilding with Jenova as an alien parasite), and is just a fun little easter egg.
Well chaps, it's a been a fascinating ride and you have managed to make my favourite game THAT much better to me!
We started in familiar territory, but holy moly did you guys connect so many small dots!
Mainly all the symbolism that runs through the game, art and game design I can get but even as little as the Hibiscus got my Lightbulbs glowing.
The Mandala blew me away, A hardy salute to Cason for fitting the bill perfectly.
Fantastic studf lads. My brain is ready for MGS.
(For the record, this kinda means we ought to take Nomura a little more seriously now, eh? Hmmm...that'll be tricky)
I'm watching this 9 months later.
Casen should check out elder futhark. The rune for G is an X, and the meanings for this rune in particular mirrors and expands on much of what he has said about this mandala and the themes of ffX itself. Futhark runes are interesting, being a combination of hieroglyphs, phonetic glyphs and sacred geometry. Seeing the recurring themes of norse summons, it's entirely possible Square was drawing from this as well.
Love your podcasts, both of you. Thanks
Honestly I disagree on ten not leaving open the way to a sequel. Any story that ends with a massive change to the status quo of the world. Automatically leaves the question what is the world like now that it’s changed as a natural starting point for a sequel. And that is what X-2 is. You earlier criticized it as a never ending festival but when you think about it that is probably what should happen when something as positive and world changing as the death of sin happens the next few years are going to be one big party. And even then you see the new factions of this new world forming indicating that “the party” is starting to Wind down and with it the sense of unity that everyone had.
Hoping for a bonus episode with the optional content someday. Loved this podcast, looking forward to MGS! Travel safe.
Thank you Mike and Casen for these podcasts.
1: Not to weigh to much on X-2, but I believe that Maechen is an unsent in that game. That would fit with the symbols on his garb and with those implications from the mandala.
2: I believe that when in the farplane, pyreflies resonate with memories and dreams of people in a similar way they do with the Fayth. The result is a summoning of the person's memory. The living person acts in place of the fayth and the pyreflies replicate the person's dreams, just not as complete and the summoning is transient and temporary. However, in cases where the memory is tied to strong emotion (like Jyscal) it can manifest. But this only happens when the pyreflies have the template of the dead person already within their collective (being sent). Otherwise they wouldn't be able to recreate the dream.
3: Is it ever explained HOW buff daddy Jecht gets out of dream Zanarkand?
for 3. he was out on his boat to train and somehow got sent into spira when he went to far in a storm.
@@megamike15 Is that canon within the text of X or is that something that was added later? Because it sounds... kinda crap and not in line with what X would have done.
@@bartandaelus359 they say he got lost at sea in one of the flashbacks.
@@bartandaelus359 what do you think X would have done then?
“You ever heard the word psychopomp?”
“I sure haven’t.”
“Yeah.”
I don’t know why but that was really funny to me 😂
Tidus can't be an Aeon because if he was, he would've been possessed by Yu Yevon
I thoroughly enjoyed each of the episodes you provided us with. Might replay this game again and follow along with each episodes.
Fascinating! Thank you so much for your insight and videos. Would love to hear more final fantasy content discussion :)
@40:47 One problem with this interpretation though is that only two of the maesters are dead, Seymour and Mika. Unless you intend it to foreshadow the death of Kinoc and Kelk, but this goes against the general interpretation Casen gives with respect to influence from the farplane. In any case, kudos to the interpretative skills. While some of it may be looser, there is no doubting at least some intention here.
it's a shame we didn't get to hear your guys thoughts on anima and the baaj temple as well as the temple of the stolen fayth. but lots of great great stuff thank you guys!
Thanks for all the great podcasts, wish you guys the best!
11:05 Sophia! Like in Xenogears with Miang and Ella and all that jazz!
I am forever glad I found this podcast. FFX is one of my top 5 favorite games (possibly even #1) of all time. Have two people getting so into the story and looking at nearly every detail has been such an amazing ride. Thank you guys so much for talking about it and glad to see you guys had so much fun talking about it. whenever play X-2 I would love to see it on this podcast. Definitely gonna check out the X-2 playlist.
Now to get into metal gear solid 😂👌🏻here we go
thank you for the hard effort guys really love the podcast and this series in particular
Thank you so much guys this was the best series yet!
Man, I really hope they actually do play through X-2 sometime as a followup to all this. I don't think they've given it a fair shake, and I consider it to be a *great* followup to this game's themes. It's not a perfect game by any stretch... But it is I think the best Final Fantasy sequel. Creating a followup adventure in an already-saved world, with an already-complete bunch of character arcs, is nearly impossible - That's what Casen claimed in this series, and I think the developers of X-2 were in complete agreement!
So instead of just more of the same, instead of a traditional FF plot, it's a game about picking up the pieces, a game about a world trying to figure out how to move on from the collapse of a thousand years of stagnation. And it's a game about a heroine trying to figure out what to DO with herself, in a world that doesn't need heroes anymore, and the answer she finds to that question. It's the mania of a people freed from thousand year old shackles, clashing with the melancholy of a world whose very heart has been ripped out, and the unhealthy extremes of both of those emotions as Spira tries to become whole once more.
...And then a giant monster threatens the world again because apparently FF isn't allowed to end without saving the world. Sigh. If it weren't for that ridiculous sudden spike in the stakes for the final boss, all my other complaints would be trivial. But... It is really hard to look past, I'll admit. It forces a bunch of stupid retcon reveals which mangle the otherwise slow-paced, much more relaxed and personal stakes of the rest of the game. X-2 doesn't trample the themes of the first, it looks PAST them, to ask new questions.
Loved the series guys really well thought out. Looking forward to mgs, snake eater was my favorite growing up with sons of liberty being a close 2nd 🤙 never played 4 though 🤔
This video format reminds me of mikes older videos, like the Final Fantasy XIII 7 part series. The new setup is nice, but I miss this old cam look for some reason. Nostalgia is weird, but not unwelcome.
Not sure if you guys have seen it but, Valkyrie Profile Leneth is getting a port to the PS4 and PS5 because the new Valkyrie Elysium game. I think it would be a great game for this podcast format, albeit with the asterisk that you need to get ending A for the whole plot. And given the fact the game is coming out in the 29th of september, there is time for you to plan for the podcast to coincide with the release of a bit after it.
This is great news, hopefully with it's release, Valkyrie Profile's price will finally come down a bit after it exploded during covid.
@@nickburose8286 Not sure if it will, because it seems the port will be digital only, and for now it is only a bonus of the special edition of Elysium, with a promise of being sold at a later date
@@lucasm4790 I checked the store page for the digital edition and it claims that the Lenneth re-release will also be sold separately
hearing about the zanderkand-bivell wa as they read it is interesting because that story basically sounds like a traditional jrpg story but then ffx is the aftermath and healing of all that. and though i never finished x2 it seems x2 explores the "well we saved the world now what, now who am i now that that piece of my identity has shifted so drastically" which is cool
Somebody should get Casen to do a guest lecture tour at game design university courses
Do your thing Mike. Health is important. Us fans dont mind if theres a delay
On the Blitz all arena in Zanarkand: I do believe it's the same one. It's been a thousand years remember, I think it's entirely possible that the statues that were so iconic in the opening were simply destroyed or lost to time.
It also plays the same music from the Blitzball menu which ties in very heavily to the sport as religion theory.
56:56 fun fact. Tidus' original design did have black hair
Honored my comment was read. It's a shame so much lore was held off for sequel stuff as I generally interpret subsequent material as being distinct. The author is longer no the same, his world has changed, and the mythos likewise reflects that. Only sequels written concurrently I find are worth holding in the same realm of canonicity. I thought we got an explanation on Gagazet when Tidus is brought back into dream Zanarkand, but it's been... Aeons. Excellent podcast all around. I loved every moment. As soon as you mentioned "exploding blitzballs," I actually said, "oh no" out loud. I remember those spoilers from the novel where Tidus's head apparently exploded and was replaced with a blitzball, or something similar.
As you get toward the center of the mandala, you said one texture was like stone. It looks more like water to me, which would represent the blitzball sphere. Regardless, your analysis of the mandala is fascinating.
Oh, interesting. I wish I could talk to the artist that made that design. Thanks!
Thanks for the in-depth analysis Casen. Very interesting and a lot to think about and consider and now I'm interested in learning about symbolism.
Can we get a proper list of the books mentioned in the description? I'm seeing some books with similar names and not sure which author is correct.
Jung has a book with a chapter on the Mandala. Believe it's just called "Dreams."
Jung's "Man and his Symbols" is a good starting point but I also highly recommend the "Memories, Dreams and Recollections" audio book because it's so easy to listen to and gives a lot of foundational context for his ideas in other works.
The Jung works mentioned here are great. The ones I mentioned in the podcast are A Beginners Guide to Constructing the Universe, A Dictionary of Symbols, and Sacred Geometry
Thank you all! Definitely gonna look into consuming these!
I think it might be too late for you guys to see this but regarding the mandala something you mention in passing is a spoiler for FFX-2
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I found it interesting you mentioned one of the points reaching from the farplane into Spira could represent Maechen or his stories as his character is further developed in FFX-2 and he is also an unsent.
How did Shinra in X-2 tie the game to FF7? Isnt it just an easter egg like all the other name sharing in the franchise?
9:03 Zanarkand dome is A blitzball stadium though not the same one from the beginning. Zanarkand had several each in a different quadrant of the city.
This is been great, but I'm excited for the MGS content, you guys always cover really great stuff.
I wonder what Casen would think of Genshin Impact's lore. While the main story can be meandering at times, the underlining aspects of it are very intriguing.
A bit late to mention it unfortunately, but something to consider: You bring up a lot how bizarre it is that Sin has been around for a thousand years but only defeated four times, how can Spira still exist at all?
I have two possible explanations. These haven't been explicitly confirmed as far as I can tell but they're implicit in the game as-is.
1: We are never /told/ that every Calm is only 10 years or so. Jecht becoming Sin may have contributed to this because usually Guardians that would accompany a Summoner who actually survived all of the overwhelming trials along the route (look how many graves are on Gagazet, etc.) would be extremely elite individuals, and given the culture of Spira likely highly trained warrior monks or something along those lines (like Auron). Jecht has been an undisciplined rowdy out of control alcoholic for all but maybe the last two months of his life before becoming Sin, so it may be that he simply doesn't have the discipline to control Sin for more than 9 or 10 years or so. It's possible someone with the kind of training "proper" Guardians would go through would last much, much longer.
2: When Sin uses that huge attack where the camera zooms out to a view from space, you can see that the planet FFX takes place on is way, way bigger than just Spira. This would imply the possibility Sin spent/spends a lot of time far away on the planet rampaging through whatever else is out there.
Great series, thanks for making this!
54:28 this really reminds of the big reveal in final fantasy xiv shadowbringer. Those who played it would know what I am talking about.
Mike you need a day off and a good sleep ma dude. I think all of us would be more than understanding if you guys missed a week to take care of some stuff. Best series so far! Super hyped for metal gear!
In regards to why Sin hates Machina so much. To me, there was always a more practical answer, which fits with Tidus's non-religious view of things. Sin didn't hate Machina, but Sin was trying to destroy people, and technology attracts attention, making it easier for Sin to spot civilization. Due to this fact of life, people developed religious superstition or belief around technology, similar to ancient views on eating pork (or something similar). This only further spearheaded the overall criticism of religion that the story tries to convey... Not only does religion idolize sacrifice (which the Al bhed were against), but it stops human progress.
Great work another thought, the podcast talks about how Tidus and Yuna swap places and it seems strange he was so against her sacrifice but he will do the same. To me this always made sense the sacrifice was not the core issue, the central issue was it was not fixing the problem. If the final summoning could kill Sin even if it had a 5% chance I think summoners would still pilgrimage and sacrifice themselves but once it is revealed there is a 0% chance it will just becomes a new Sin the sacrifice is no longer worth it and now Tidus can make a more meaningful sacrifice.
It could be that not fixing the problem was his objection, but he didn't even really know about that until they confront Yunalesca. I think it more likely that he was opposed to her dying due to the fact that the summoners have no choice but to die in order to defeat Sin. Whereas Tidus chooses to "truly end" (in quotes here as that isnt necessarily the case) Sin and thus as a consequence of doing so, dies due to the Fayth no longer dreaming. It is similar in result but the implications are different. His death is more of a side-effect of Sin dying rather than a requirement, if that makes sense.
@@nickburose8286 interesting opinion, I often wondered how the final aeon kills the summoner. Yunalesca made Seymour's mother into the anima Fayth but she must have assumed he was going to use Anima to battle Sin. Just calling forth Anima doesn't kill Seymour so I always assumed Yu Yevon taking over the aeon caused the summoner to die as the source of the final aeons power is the bond between the Fayth & summoner. Long way of saying I think you could consider the summoner dying a side effect of beating Sin but interesting perspective thanks for the reply
This. Yuna choosing to not sacrifice herself was less about choosing to live but rather her choosing to not throw her life away for false hope. If there was *any* chance of defeating Sin permanently she would have been willing to sacrifice herself.
Just a quick note on the meta ideas in the comment at ~1:06:00 - the comment posits that all the Final Fantasy worlds are dreams of the fayth that are being cycled until the player arrives to interrupt the cycle.
Here's my slightly different take: the developers (the fayth) dreamed up a game, as well as a world for that game to take place in. By playing the game, we (the summoners) are re-energizing that world and allowing it and its circumstances to take place once again. That is, we, the players, are not the vehicles for breaking the cycle, but are the very things perpetuating the cycle. The only way to break the cycle in this case is to destroy every copy of the game so it is never played again >:)
Hahaha love this.
I'm positive this is canon and not my head canon.
The reason why Sin attacks cities and keeps them from expanding technologically is to protect Dream Zanarkand that is located in the ocean near Baaj Temple, from discovery, from destruction etc.
I think it’s in the ultimania
That's all well and good but makes no sense at all because Sin itself destroys Zanarkand (the dream version) and thus also destroys what it seeks to protect. Also being an Aeon (if this theory is to be believed) it would regenerate or heal itself.
I don't know why people need this to be a physical location. That only complicated all of this more than it needs to be. We already have inter-cosmic dimensions in the form of the Farplane AND the realm within Sin so it's hardly a stretch to say that dream Zanarkand is one too, potentially with its access point also being Sin or alternatively the peak of Gagazet.
Physical Dream Zanarkand Theory is just so complicated to make work that it just bothers me seeing how hard people have to work to make it function and even then it still asks more questions than it answers. I don't really care what the Ultimania says because it's literally not in the game, it's not in the text being analysed and so cannot be included in the analysis imo. Plus, post 2001 square loves a retcon and frankly anything said after the initial release doesn't mean anything at all to me. Trying to integrate that idea in a satisfying way leads to several unsatisfying answers to me and so I reject it and subscribe to a metaphysical inter-cosmic space as dream Zanarkand instead.
@@bartandaelus359 it has to be a physical place as auron was able to get there by rideing sin.
i was always under the impression it's floating as we never see the ground as casen points out in ep 2.
I can't help but see the mandala as a 3D artist and notice that it's actually a small triangle repeated and mirrored 8 times.
Good series guys. Lot of great discussion. Good luck working out the brain of the mad lad known as Hideo Kojima next!
Nice!!!
I been joker ever since Prince of persia.
Is it me or does Mike's voice sound very different than his Resonant Archive videos? I mean I've followed these guys since many years ago and only seen videos of games I am purely interested in so I haven't seen every piece of content but it seems to me his voice and tone change a lot in recent videos as opposed to videos from 2 years ago and beyond.
I was under the impression that all matter of Spira was composed of pyreflies so Tidus and dream Zanarkand and aeons are composed of the same stuff as normal people and places. I guess that's not the case?
On a more a more macro level, would you rather have a hard fantasy explanation to everything or just the soft unexplained version that they were going for?
Squaresoft died the hero, Square Enix then became Shinra.
Now i'm imagining Tetsuya Nomura as a fat guy in a red suit.
And Sakaguchi with spiky hair and the Buster Sword.
Thanks.
The square with rounded edges is almost like a square...soft? 😂