@@charlesgreen1425 not in the state I live in and I have been a licensed / insured / bonded builder for 56 years. You can't build different from the engineer stamped and approved blue prints . If you want your job red flagged and work stops you can build how ever you want to . I agree, some of the blue prints I've gotten, I had to get the engineer to look at and change .
@@brettsurrett4596 exact same thing I thought as soon as he said he’s building according to the blue prints I muted the video.now I’m questioning if this guy knows what he’s talking about
It is your duty if you see something wrong with how it is shown on approved drawings to bring it to the attention of the architectec to be resolved. Not pointing it out is enethical. Many contractors use the mistakes and omissions to create more profit. You will always have problems with unethical people and your best to stay away from them.
@@allenburns3177 are you sure he didn’t bring it to the attention of the Architect? You don’t know. The plans from the architect have to be approved by the city so to assume the architect got it wrong then the city got it wrong as well then blame the contractor he can’t deviate from the plans.
That’s definitely the engineers fault no way around that shouldn’t have been approved from the gate as a builder you rely on the expertise of the engineer to know what you’re attaching to is structurally capable of handling the load and if he didn’t build what was on the plans they could’ve failed him for that as well so…
A good contractor would simply take this info to the builder or the engineer before starting. If you know it’s faulty before installing, you should say something. Although if you don’t know and install then it is on the engineer for sure. But it’s going to be a major hassle fixing all of it when it’s completed already.
Someone else posted elsewhere, and I have to agree, it's probably the guy shooting the video that's wrong. If the floor joists cantilever, there's nothing wrong with the way it was built the first time. Maybe the engineer was wrong, but I doubt it. They are wrong sometimes too, but this mistake would have been unavoidably obvious to an engineer. Seems more likely to me that the second Carpenter made assumptions he shouldn't have. The city wouldn't have approved the original permit otherwise
The carpenter said he built it according to plans. If the plans were engineered and and approved by the county / city with a rubber stamp and a permit issued from the county / city then the engineer and the plan checker are at fault. Why dont you mention that rather than blame it on the carpenter. Oh shit this vid is from 2018. Oh well.
If the plans are approved, but the deck is going to collapse if built to the plans, it is the builder's responsibility to raise the issue and get the plans fixed. "But I was only following orders" is not the best defense.
@@scottwillis5434 If the original plans are approved it means the deck was engineered and so was the ledger that attaches to the bay that more than likely is also engineered so it wont pull away from the house which cant happen if the floor joists / beams that support the bay are properly engineered. Having said that the contractor would be OK to build the deck as he did. Now if the deck was built as an add on and no engineering was done except by the deck builder that is different story. But it doesnt mean it couldnt be built that way as long as the bay has proper support from the joist/ beam system which no one would know without looking at the original plans.
I built a lot of decks between 2001-2015. I agree with the guy In the video. You haven’t done this long if you’re attaching to a bay. Also, that’s a long header. I’d go on and put posts and a beam under that section. I don’t see lags or through bolts in the band either. Maybe he’s framing first which is fine on a lower deck. But if this thing decides to start peeling off the house while you’re building it before you get the structure secured to the house band. Someone is getting hurt.
If those joists for the bay are cantilevered from the house there is no issues, which I bet is the case if the plans are stamped. Mind your own buisness.
What I was wondering. If it is cantilevered then I wouldn’t see it as a big issue. But at the same time doing the cantilever for the bay originally they might have only built it strong enough to support the bay, not another deck. Maybe open the bay framing and then get a better cantilever in there to sister the deck joist? I’m no carpenter/framer just putting my thought in there. Also to waterproof thag after, as I’ve seen too many decks built into headers and then not flashed properly, rotting out the header/rim joist. I’m the guy fixing the waterproof.
Another option (besides installing a header) would be to cut through the cantilever rimboard, etc., and run your joists in to bear on the plate which is sitting on the foundation. Having said that.,,,NO cantilever we have ever built would fail in a case like this, even with the deck floor joists hanging on it. The problem here is,..the cantilever is probably anything but overbuilt (if it is middle america and not beverly hills),..so it is only designed to hold the weight of the popout.
Looks good from my house! Was a carpenter for thirty years. Most inspectors are inspecters for a reason. They cant drive a nail, there smarter than everyone in the room especially this loud mouth on the video!
btw, I'm a Master carpenter through the Union and a Building Engineer for over 42 years. If you really don't know better at least you can do is read the code book on this.
You could fix that in about an hour...Measure back 3.25 inches from the bay make a mark on those single joist, strike a chalk line on the marks, plumb a line down from that, cut those ends, throw in the new double header and hangers...Badda bing badda boom...It's only 6 joist...meh...
You took the words outta my mouth Rob… I would put a quick temp support under them and cut em back…worst part about whole thing would be trying to salvage the hangers as those nails don’t pull easy. Especially when put in with joist hanger nailer.
Homes are built for 40 lbs per sq ft, Decks are built by code, 60 lbs per sq ft. Why? Because more people will gather on the deck than in any one room in the house. Bays are built to only carry itself and not the extra weight of a deck and its live load.
It all depends. On how the floor joists are running for that cantilever. You can either cantilever off a doubled Floor joist which means you are going back in three times as far as you are coming out because the floor joists are running parallel. that wont hold extra weight Or the floor joists here are just two foot longer and are going all the way back to where the rest are sitting most likely under another wall or if its a open room underneath or above, a beam. think spanning 12 feet, but where the cant is, you use 14 footers that hang over. Then what he does here is perfectly fine. because you have a wall and its weight counterbalancing or as I said if it's open floor plan an I-beam where they are notched into. without looking inside the house and seeing what the framing is there, you cant make that determination. From what little I can see. Thats looks like one of the main outside walls (longer walls on the house), so the floor joists should be running to it, and not parallel to it. which in that case. it is still structurally sound
@@snwlcke3 So you are what we call a bad contractor. You ever follow the codes or you go home! Search domain awc.orgwww.awc.org › pdf › education › › AWC-BCD310-2018IRCDeckConstruction-190523-color.pdf 2018 IRC Significant Changes to Deck Provisions 25 DECK DESIGN Alternative provisions -R301.1.1 Other standards can be used to design a deck. Although not specifically referenced in the IRC,DCA 6-2015, the deck design guideline from the American Wood Council can be used to design a deck. Additional documents may be available in some regions.
@@ConstructionConsumerAdvocacy it is pretty amazing. That this guy will belittle anyone who actually know what they are talking about. Irc and awc are two different entities. An just like your link. They are alternative recommendations for deck framing. Not the actual code. The concern is the rim on the bump out is not resting on the exterior wall. An is usually just nailed to the end of the joist. Because the joist are what pick up the load of the cantilevered bay. Just lagging the ledger to the rim joist may cause it to shear off under the extra load. Which lagging to the rim joist only is also no longer considered sufficient. Especially in the case of o.s.b. rim joist.
that bay should be cantilevered floor joice from inside so it wouldnt pull the bay off the house as you say unless the bay was added after the initial house build
well they are cantilevered from the inside but it's 2/3 inside and 1/3 outside. They are just nailed to the sister joist. Yes, the do pull away from the movement of the deck of the live load. It's also code not to hang your deck off the bay in all 50 states now. If you do this then expect a building Enginner to call you on it
And it is entirely possible the engineer had beams instead of cantilevered floor joists supporting the bay. This doofuss you tuber takes a lot for granted without knowing the true facts.
@@GallowayBuildingServices first thing the inspector should have done was pull the osb off the bottom to see what was supporting the bay. Possibility was girders , it is supporting a roof. Maybe triple joists easily a couple hangers and a double across the face of cantilever to the double hoists already in. First step pull the osb off so the inspector can see it.
@@jefflinnell8492 The first thing a Building Engineer and Inspector know how and why we build . Now you will know something about what you speak of. 2018 IRC Significant Changes to Deck Provisions - Color ... Search domain awc.orgwww.awc.org › pdf › education › bcd › AWC-BCD310-2018IRCDeckConstruction-190523-color.pdf 2018 IRC Significant Changes to Deck Provisions 25 DECK DESIGN Alternative provisions -R301.1.1 Other standards can be used to design a deck. Although not specifically referenced in the IRC,DCA 6-2015, the deck design guideline from the American Wood Council can be used to design a deck. Additional documents may be available in some regions.
@@jefflinnell8492 Homes are built for 40 lbs per sq ft, Decks are built by code, 60 lbs per sq ft. Why? Because more people will gather on the deck than in any one room in the house. Bays are built to only carry itself and not the extra weight of a deck and its live load.
I agree with everything you are saying as a carpenter for over 23 yrs but the plans had to be submitted and approved by the building Dept maybe the guy doing the plans didn’t realize there was a bay window . Not sure what he thinks the two double joist are doing as that’s a waste of lumber unless he plans to turn the joist like you mentioned. I had a issue like this a few years ago, the last two joist landed on a bump out so what the field inspector asked me to install a extra post to support it . I enjoy talking shop with people with the same vision and knowledge. I do believe that the deck will withstand the load of the deck as it’s not holding up a roof or second floor but at the same time we don’t want to be wrong and have the deck fall or be compromised. Happy New year cheers
When you say “ these plans are wrong “ you always get told to be quite and carry on . Every job is like that . You follow the plans or there’s no point getting them drawn up .
Great point. I teach Building Science classes at our college and to the state Real Estate Board and I tell everyone that when this happens you ask them to put it in writing so I have documentation in the court room . This also goes for any building inspector telling me to do something incorrect. Your comment is great and I greatly appreciate it. Thank you.
@@ConstructionConsumerAdvocacy uh....isn't the plan in writing?It is an illustration as well,so there can be no misunderstanding. Should I ask the engineer for a drop of his blood next to his signature?
The first call is made by the approval for construction drawing by the council. Any modification would be a variation cost for the builder if he is not the designer.
I see no fault on the builders part of he’s following the plans - but I do see myself charging this guy an asshole tax of +30% on the entire project for trying to blast the contractor on social media rather than talk to him directly.
@@kickngravel6063 Because you want to steal from your clients is no excuse. BTW, the Contactor lost in court for this and had to pay to correct it and my wages for inspecting it OL Guess we be looking for your lack of work soon
The fact that, anyone would even think, that it’s ok to attach a heavy load bearing structure; such as deck, to a semi free standing structure, such as a bay, is mind numbing.
He built it according to blueprints, so it's the engineers fault if something's wrong. And it's probably completely fine since that's only a 2 foot cantilever
@@danielyeary148 You’re absolutely right about it being the engineers fault; however with todays crap quality materials, there’s no way I would trust that to hold.
And he doesnt show that it is a free standing cantilever. That would mean the floor joists inside for that floor are running parallel with that wall, and that Cant is built off a doubled floor joist. Then yeah, you can bow the floor up . But more than likely and my guess is the floor joists are running to that wall and sitting on it, and the Cant was made by using 2 foot longer joists, 14 footers as compared to 12. And in that case you can definitely header off on them.
@@snwlcke3 if you have heavy snow or the ground, on the pillar side, settles it’s pulling that side down eventually. It’s best to have a independent standing deck, that butts up against the house, so if the deck goes your house is not compromised.
The prints are just to get permits on these little residential projects and are never a 100% correct. Jobs like this a good builder would let the customer know and fix it in the fly.
U can't deviate from the plan. If you know something is wrong thing bring it up with the architect. But inspector will not like that it's different than drawn. I have been burned so many times doing it the right way but according to the inspector the " right way" is per plan.
Look here boss man that LOOKED fine.Its this kinda holey B's.the man said all he needed was another board behind the work he did.1 board?Thats what makes all the difference folks another 2x10 or 12
The homeowner is at fault not the contractor because it is ultimately the homeowner that's responsible for the structural engineering being in compliance with code.
This may be true where you live but not anywhere else in the country. I am registered as an Construction Expert witness for litigation. I know this first hand :-) Honestly, if your contractor doesn't know this you got a bad contractor
@@ConstructionConsumerAdvocacy what I was referring to was building and zoning, they hold the homeowner responsible not the contractor, but I do agree that a competent contractor should be completely familiar with structural integrity of what he builds
Spearin doctrine. If it’s a design/build contractor, the contractors responsible regardless if they hired an engineer. If owner supplied drawings, contractor isn’t liable but is required to let owner know of there’s a problem with drawings. Ultimately, there still liable. It’s called the Spearin doctrine. Designed to protect owner or GC
If engineer stamped the plans and then town approved and issued permits how it is contractorrs fault??? Even if engineer made a mistake and then plan examiner did not catch the mistake either , contractor is the last guy to blame!
There were tons wrong with this deck. Good eye!!! Thank you for watching our videos and please hit "Like" & "Follow" for more videos and our Radio show podcast.
The header is missing and the deck is hanging from the bay. This can and has pulled the bay away from the home. Great question! Hit like and subscribe to get all the newest videos. :-)
The “bay” the window was in isn’t really structural in the sense you can not attach the deck to it. They wanted the piece on the bay to extend to the left and to the right and be fastened to the double joists.
That bay isn't bearing or structure on the house, it is 3 walls nailed to the outside of the bearing wall on the house. Therefor if you put any kind of weight or load on it the chances of it coming down or sagging are 100%
Decks have to hold up loads: their own weight, plus the people and stuff that are on them (including any snow load). Figure the deck is heavy, and throw in some 250# men standing on it. Say 1,000# on that section. Whatever it's attached to had better be able to support that load. A bay window like that is pretty much built to hold itself up, maybe someone sitting there. Figure it would probably take 200..400 pounds of load. Now put 1,000# on it.
Standup and reach your arms straight out. The main portion of your body stands on the foundation. Your outstretched arms are the bay window. Now add weight to your outstretched arms
Actually the joist are rarely long enough to extend 2 feet over the foundation and back to the steel beam towards the center of the home. Even if they are the joist are only as strong as the point of termination past the foundation. Also, homes are built to 40lbs per sq ft. Decks are built to 60 lbs per square foot. So we have 2 different load requirements. Good question :-)
Sorry but building codes supersedes a stamped and approve set of blue prints. This would not be the first time this has happened and it would not be on the ones that approved the plan it would fall on ones not meeting the code.
As a builder, when in doubt, I always question the engineer.....sometimes I'm right and more often than not he's right but the final decision rests with the engineer. I found the presentation a bit snarky.......an easy fix and I'm sure it will get corrected.
As a contractor. In the state of Florida you have to build exactly to blueprint. no exception. And have dealt with many people like the one that made this video. Problem is they're not an engineer. Nor a contractor
@@ConstructionConsumerAdvocacy You have to look for the signs of poorly run remodel. Electrical not finished. No Power. No Trim installed just drywall. New cabinets not installed just sitting on the floor. Listen to other trades onsite and be wary !
That is not a bay window that's hanging on the side of the house. Those are cantilevered floor joists and I bet when this guy checked with the engineer he found out that he was wrong.
A contractor can not deviate from the approved and stamped plans. The inspectors job is to make sure the contractor follows the plans.. unless the plans have a note saying to verify on the field once its opened then that would be different and the contractor has to use his better judgement.
Some Engineers and Architects suck... they will get you in some bullshit ...I put a stop to that years ago when they draw something stupid and I don't like it I make them change it or I won't do it... those joist should have went in all the way under the bay to the existing wall
I love how that's about the only 'fuck up ' he can show and if the plans are stamped and approved you can't go another way now what is the double header going to do is create more stress ..
Some carpenters don't have foresight to see ahead of them. I have seen carpenters doing things that are not kosher all the time that even have been doing carpentry for years
Please, in the state I work in architects and engineers don’t even care anymore. They never field measure and if you look at any print every dimension or elevation or detail on a print almost always has v.i.f.(verify in field). Because they don’t want to be held responsible. So it puts fixing their architectural drawings on the foreman or the layout man. He has to bring up every discrepancy found. Construction in my state has just turned into a giant blame game. It’s a result of nothing being planned. No coordination. And for example people wanting 8 month jobs done in 4 months. And the g.c’s. Never say it’s impossible.
sorry but, if that bay has solid material as a rim board and thejoists are cantelevered out far enough from the inside, it's gucci. a quick look in an unfinished basement, aquick look at rim material- good to go. so, "CODE"works good for guys with a broom handle that want to site it.
He’s wrong if he goes by the blue prints cause the blue prints but then he’s also wrong if he doesn’t go by the blue prints. I rather be wrong by going with the blue prints.
If it's on the blue prints I could care less what anyone one else says I'm building exactly how the plans recommends. If it's wrong I just get paid extra to come and fix it later.
Dave V, What i am telling is the solution is to follow the law/code. 2018 IRC Significant Changes to Deck Provisions - Color Search domain awc.orgwww.awc.org › pdf › education › › AWC-BCD310-2018IRCDeckConstruction-190523-color.pdf 2018 IRC Significant Changes to Deck Provisions 25 DECK DESIGN Alternative provisions -R301.1.1 Other standards can be used to design a deck. Although not specifically referenced in the IRC,DCA 6-2015, the deck design guideline from the American Wood Council can be used to design a deck. Additional documents may be available in some regions.
If you don't put in the header between them you are right. 2018 IRC Significant Changes to Deck Provisions - Color ... Search domain awc.orgwww.awc.org › pdf › education › bcd › AWC-BCD310-2018IRCDeckConstruction-190523-color.pdf 2018 IRC Significant Changes to Deck Provisions 25 DECK DESIGN Alternative provisions -R301.1.1 Other standards can be used to design a deck. Although not specifically referenced in the IRC,DCA 6-2015, the deck design guideline from the American Wood Council can be used to design a deck. Additional documents may be available in some regions.
It depends if the floor joists behind the bay are continuous over the top plate. If so then that ledger would be fine. If the bat was applied on a flat surface with a ledger as well then no it would be acceptable.
no sir. This is the right way and the only way per the law. 2018 IRC Significant Changes to Deck Provisions - Color Search domain awc.orgwww.awc.org › pdf › education › › AWC-BCD310-2018IRCDeckConstruction-190523-color.pdf 2018 IRC Significant Changes to Deck Provisions 25 DECK DESIGN Alternative provisions -R301.1.1 Other standards can be used to design a deck. Although not specifically referenced in the IRC,DCA 6-2015, the deck design guideline from the American Wood Council can be used to design a deck. Additional documents may be available in some regions.
I'd have at least extended them under the Bay to set on the top plate of the existing wall of the home, over each stud. Using 2X8 hangers won't fly where I come from, has to be the full height of the joist using Simpson SDS screws in every hole and at least 2 Simpson SDS's between each Joist connecting to the Rim Joist of the Home.
Leave the ledger on the house, cut the joists back 3 inches, add your doubler and nail everything back together. Easy fix at this point if actually needed. If the bay is framed properly it will be fine the way it is though. Words of a lifelong framer. NEXT
Thank God for inspectors cuz a lot of these contractors want to do a half-ass job and get paid they want to cut corners so they can make all the money and nobody they don't want nobody to know what they're doing except they just want to get paid and that's bad. When I haul junk or furniture I do the best job I can every time so people use me cuz that's what I do I work for myself
Thanks for the reply; Glad you have your dad still. Doing drywall repairs now. Working about twenty hrs a week. Glad there is no code enforcement on the job! LOL! Take care bro.
On site building inspector has final say so for code enforcement. Plans and blueprints are a guidline and can have mistakes and/or wrong details. My inspector says, he has the final say so, thats why he inspects jobsites.
Blueprints is blueprints. Not the contractors concern if the blueprints aren't up to code. Why waist time engineering when you're they're to assemble. Code shouldn't be the contractors concern when following orders, ie a blueprint.
I'm half and half about this. The contractor should have called it out and refused to proceed with the project until this correction was made by the engineer or architect. That said, depending on the engineer and jurisdiction that revision and review could take weeks or months. In the end, better to do it the right way than to get sued for injury or death. But I do relate to the first contractor saying he's building it according to the stamped approved blue print. Been there too many frustrated times.
No no no engineer who signed off the print is responsible if it's an approved print it's not on him and as long as you have been doing this you should know
Any builder who hangs a deck load off of a bay window isn't much of a contractor. That should have been questioned immediately. And, any plan done by an engineer or architect with this, is literally a moron...as most actually are.
Holy cow he's gonna rip that whole bay window off the house! Wow. I think he's just being lazy, how else could a union framer not know this? Well...what if he's got that ledger attached to an actual cantilever with floor joists not a "built on" bay window?
That’s what I was wondering. Is it a bay window bolted onto the walls or exterior walls nailed down to a floor joist system. It looks like exterior walls to me
The Bay is 1x12 which is good for a wrap but the wrap should be taken off and a header form put in its place with an under-gurding 2x2, 1 inch up off of the bottom of the header as a support along with the hangers. that deck won't go any where.
First off that's a older home so floor joist should be under the bay. The bay will not be pulled off. Second off he had plans that were obviously approved and permitted. Yes there are better ways to build them now but the real question is what are the city codes?
Homes are built for 40 lbs per sq ft, Decks are built by code, 60 lbs per sq ft. Why? Because more people will gather on the deck than in any one room in the house. Bays are built to only carry itself and not the extra weight of a deck and its live load.
Around here , those plans wouldn't get past the plan reviewers . The municipalities will let me submit plans unsealed , pursuant to Missouri statutes, if it it residential and less than three units. . If someone gives me set of plans that are Fubr .. I won't bid on that project. Also around here , that framing error, won't pass framing/final inspection. Although the field inspectors don't like to over rule the plan reviewers When you sell your house , any good home inspector, will catch that framing error. Any good deck builder has seen that one as well.
I'm an electrician and I can tell you we NEVER follow a residential blueprint religiously..... We are trained to know code and that supercedes anything some Poindexter conjured up on CAD
Are you honestly suggesting the "Poindexter" doesn't know the code? There's no doubt that the plans are occasionally bad, and some engineers are lacking. But allowing tradesmen to ignore the plans is more likely to cause issues.
@@cyberpleb2472 when I come to represent the Owner and the Contractor makes this statement you can guarantee you will lose in court everyday. If the contractor doesn't know the codes he or she is in the wrong business. They need to back to labor work only
@@ConstructionConsumerAdvocacy How am I losing in court? Are you sure you are responding to the correct person? Both the contractor and engineer should know the codes. If the plans are not up to code, they should not be followed by the contractor. But the person I am responding to states that they NEVER follow the plans (their emphasis) because the engineers do not know the codes, hence they can and should change the plans as required. They should, of course, bring any violations to the attention of the individuals presenting the plans so that they can correct them. Contractors should not be creating their own plans. If the plans are wrong, why not pin the blame on the individuals that created them (in court, if need be).
SBG this is for you. This is for all you poor ripoff Contractors. 2018 IRC Significant Changes to Deck Provisions - Color Search domain awc.orgwww.awc.org › pdf › education › › AWC-BCD310-2018IRCDeckConstruction-190523-color.pdf 2018 IRC Significant Changes to Deck Provisions 25 DECK DESIGN Alternative provisions -R301.1.1 Other standards can be used to design a deck. Although not specifically referenced in the IRC,DCA 6-2015, the deck design guideline from the American Wood Council can be used to design a deck. Additional documents may be available in some regions.
Ok so headered off across double to doubled up joist. Then run joists back to bay.? As long as its headered? Also seems as he was doin what he's told. Somone else's fuckup not his. I did not know that about the bays. Commen sense tells me it can rip it down. But after you header go to the wall. Then it won't rip down. I'm a sponge. Soaking this shit up
You add a header in front of the bay and double floor joist like any header is carried on on the flanks or sides of the bay. Bays are never designed to carry more than 40 lbs per sq ft and decks 60 lbs per sq ft.
@@ConstructionConsumerAdvocacy so double header on Bay to both doubles next to Bay? Sounds good 👍.... thanks 😊....my area doesn't have a lot of second story bays... single story usually and they're supported by foundation
If you're building off of stamped and approved blue prints a builder can't deviate from the plans without an engineer approving the change.
Not true, you can over build w.o.a problem ie: adding strong backs
@@charlesgreen1425 not in the state I live in and I have been a licensed / insured / bonded builder for 56 years. You can't build different from the engineer stamped and approved blue prints . If you want your job red flagged and work stops you can build how ever you want to . I agree, some of the blue prints I've gotten, I had to get the engineer to look at and change .
@@brettsurrett4596 exact same thing I thought as soon as he said he’s building according to the blue prints I muted the video.now I’m questioning if this guy knows what he’s talking about
It is your duty if you see something wrong with how it is shown on approved drawings to bring it to the attention of the architectec to be resolved. Not pointing it out is enethical. Many contractors use the mistakes and omissions to create more profit. You will always have problems with unethical people and your best to stay away from them.
@@allenburns3177 are you sure he didn’t bring it to the attention of the Architect? You don’t know. The plans from the architect have to be approved by the city so to assume the architect got it wrong then the city got it wrong as well then blame the contractor he can’t deviate from the plans.
That’s definitely the engineers fault no way around that shouldn’t have been approved from the gate as a builder you rely on the expertise of the engineer to know what you’re attaching to is structurally capable of handling the load and if he didn’t build what was on the plans they could’ve failed him for that as well so…
Agree here, engineer or architect at fault.
A good contractor would simply take this info to the builder or the engineer before starting. If you know it’s faulty before installing, you should say something. Although if you don’t know and install then it is on the engineer for sure. But it’s going to be a major hassle fixing all of it when it’s completed already.
Someone else posted elsewhere, and I have to agree, it's probably the guy shooting the video that's wrong. If the floor joists cantilever, there's nothing wrong with the way it was built the first time.
Maybe the engineer was wrong, but I doubt it. They are wrong sometimes too, but this mistake would have been unavoidably obvious to an engineer. Seems more likely to me that the second Carpenter made assumptions he shouldn't have. The city wouldn't have approved the original permit otherwise
not really- codes change
The carpenter said he built it according to plans. If the plans were engineered and and approved by the county / city with a rubber stamp and a permit issued from the county / city then the engineer and the plan checker are at fault. Why dont you mention that rather than blame it on the carpenter. Oh shit this vid is from 2018. Oh well.
If the plans are approved, but the deck is going to collapse if built to the plans, it is the builder's responsibility to raise the issue and get the plans fixed.
"But I was only following orders" is not the best defense.
@@scottwillis5434 If the original plans are approved it means the deck was engineered and so was the ledger that attaches to the bay that more than likely is also engineered so it wont pull away from the house which cant happen if the floor joists / beams that support the bay are properly engineered. Having said that the contractor would be OK to build the deck as he did. Now if the deck was built as an add on and no engineering was done except by the deck builder that is different story. But it doesnt mean it couldnt be built that way as long as the bay has proper support from the joist/ beam system which no one would know without looking at the original plans.
There’s a lot of truth in that. Everyone blames the guy who built it, not the guys who designed it and approved it. Idiots don’t know this stuff
@@scottwillis5434 he mentions in the video that there was clearly a misunderstanding but that the carpenter should know better. boom.
I built a lot of decks between 2001-2015.
I agree with the guy In the video. You haven’t done this long if you’re attaching to a bay. Also, that’s a long header. I’d go on and put posts and a beam under that section. I don’t see lags or through bolts in the band either. Maybe he’s framing first which is fine on a lower deck. But if this thing decides to start peeling off the house while you’re building it before you get the structure secured to the house band. Someone is getting hurt.
If those joists for the bay are cantilevered from the house there is no issues, which I bet is the case if the plans are stamped. Mind your own buisness.
What I was wondering. If it is cantilevered then I wouldn’t see it as a big issue.
But at the same time doing the cantilever for the bay originally they might have only built it strong enough to support the bay, not another deck.
Maybe open the bay framing and then get a better cantilever in there to sister the deck joist?
I’m no carpenter/framer just putting my thought in there.
Also to waterproof thag after, as I’ve seen too many decks built into headers and then not flashed properly, rotting out the header/rim joist.
I’m the guy fixing the waterproof.
Another option (besides installing a header) would be to cut through the cantilever rimboard, etc., and run your joists in to bear on the plate which is sitting on the foundation. Having said that.,,,NO cantilever we have ever built would fail in a case like this, even with the deck floor joists hanging on it. The problem here is,..the cantilever is probably anything but overbuilt (if it is middle america and not beverly hills),..so it is only designed to hold the weight of the popout.
Looks good from my house! Was a carpenter for thirty years. Most inspectors are inspecters for a reason. They cant drive a nail, there smarter than everyone in the room especially this loud mouth on the video!
Appreciate your feedback. Now people know that you are not the carpenter to hire.
btw, I'm a Master carpenter through the Union and a Building Engineer for over 42 years. If you really don't know better at least you can do is read the code book on this.
Old grandpas commenting on you tube lmao 🤣
@@therealryufromjapan3051 meanwhile you're still wearing diapers
@@therealryufromjapan3051 I’d rather listen to the old man on the video, than blowhards like you…
You could fix that in about an hour...Measure back 3.25 inches from the bay make a mark on those single joist, strike a chalk line on the marks, plumb a line down from that, cut those ends, throw in the new double header and hangers...Badda bing badda boom...It's only 6 joist...meh...
Double header? the new header can be nailed to the bay or nothing can touch the bay?
@@gargolart it gets hung on a double hanger on those two doubles...
You took the words outta my mouth Rob… I would put a quick temp support under them and cut em back…worst part about whole thing would be trying to salvage the hangers as those nails don’t pull easy. Especially when put in with joist hanger nailer.
@@erihaas Yeah, that could be a pain in the ass, I've never had to do it in thirty years...Maybe just lose that plate, leaving them on there...
Homes are built for 40 lbs per sq ft, Decks are built by code, 60 lbs per sq ft. Why? Because more people will gather on the deck than in any one room in the house. Bays are built to only carry itself and not the extra weight of a deck and its live load.
Learned something important today thanks!!
@@aldomont1552 Thank you Sir
It all depends. On how the floor joists are running for that cantilever. You can either cantilever off a doubled Floor joist which means you are going back in three times as far as you are coming out because the floor joists are running parallel. that wont hold extra weight Or the floor joists here are just two foot longer and are going all the way back to where the rest are sitting most likely under another wall or if its a open room underneath or above, a beam. think spanning 12 feet, but where the cant is, you use 14 footers that hang over. Then what he does here is perfectly fine. because you have a wall and its weight counterbalancing or as I said if it's open floor plan an I-beam where they are notched into. without looking inside the house and seeing what the framing is there, you cant make that determination. From what little I can see. Thats looks like one of the main outside walls (longer walls on the house), so the floor joists should be running to it, and not parallel to it. which in that case. it is still structurally sound
@@snwlcke3 So you are what we call a bad contractor. You ever follow the codes or you go home! Search domain awc.orgwww.awc.org
› pdf › education › › AWC-BCD310-2018IRCDeckConstruction-190523-color.pdf
2018 IRC Significant Changes to Deck Provisions 25 DECK DESIGN Alternative provisions -R301.1.1 Other standards can be used to design a deck. Although not specifically referenced in the IRC,DCA 6-2015, the deck design guideline from the American Wood Council can be used to design a deck. Additional documents may be available in some regions.
@@ConstructionConsumerAdvocacy it is pretty amazing. That this guy will belittle anyone who actually know what they are talking about. Irc and awc are two different entities. An just like your link. They are alternative recommendations for deck framing. Not the actual code. The concern is the rim on the bump out is not resting on the exterior wall. An is usually just nailed to the end of the joist. Because the joist are what pick up the load of the cantilevered bay. Just lagging the ledger to the rim joist may cause it to shear off under the extra load. Which lagging to the rim joist only is also no longer considered sufficient. Especially in the case of o.s.b. rim joist.
that bay should be cantilevered floor joice from inside so it wouldnt pull the bay off the house as you say unless the bay was added after the initial house build
well they are cantilevered from the inside but it's 2/3 inside and 1/3 outside. They are just nailed to the sister joist. Yes, the do pull away from the movement of the deck of the live load. It's also code not to hang your deck off the bay in all 50 states now. If you do this then expect a building Enginner to call you on it
And it is entirely possible the engineer had beams instead of cantilevered floor joists supporting the bay. This doofuss you tuber takes a lot for granted without knowing the true facts.
@@GallowayBuildingServices first thing the inspector should have done was pull the osb off the bottom to see what was supporting the bay. Possibility was girders , it is supporting a roof. Maybe triple joists easily a couple hangers and a double across the face of cantilever to the double hoists already in.
First step pull the osb off so the inspector can see it.
@@jefflinnell8492 The first thing a Building Engineer and Inspector know how and why we build . Now you will know something about what you speak of.
2018 IRC Significant Changes to Deck Provisions - Color ...
Search domain awc.orgwww.awc.org
› pdf › education › bcd › AWC-BCD310-2018IRCDeckConstruction-190523-color.pdf
2018 IRC Significant Changes to Deck Provisions 25 DECK DESIGN Alternative provisions -R301.1.1 Other standards can be used to design a deck. Although not specifically referenced in the IRC,DCA 6-2015, the deck design guideline from the American Wood Council can be used to design a deck. Additional documents may be available in some regions.
@@jefflinnell8492 Homes are built for 40 lbs per sq ft, Decks are built by code, 60 lbs per sq ft. Why? Because more people will gather on the deck than in any one room in the house. Bays are built to only carry itself and not the extra weight of a deck and its live load.
I agree with everything you are saying as a carpenter for over 23 yrs but the plans had to be submitted and approved by the building Dept maybe the guy doing the plans didn’t realize there was a bay window . Not sure what he thinks the two double joist are doing as that’s a waste of lumber unless he plans to turn the joist like you mentioned. I had a issue like this a few years ago, the last two joist landed on a bump out so what the field inspector asked me to install a extra post to support it . I enjoy talking shop with people with the same vision and knowledge. I do believe that the deck will withstand the load of the deck as it’s not holding up a roof or second floor but at the same time we don’t want to be wrong and have the deck fall or be compromised. Happy New year cheers
Just like any other architect or engineer he can probably draw it on a piece of paper and copy some specs but couldn’t frame a bird house.
Wait the blueprints was just the way he structured it? This man in the video is full of crap.
When you say “ these plans are wrong “ you always get told to be quite and carry on . Every job is like that . You follow the plans or there’s no point getting them drawn up .
Great point. I teach Building Science classes at our college and to the state Real Estate Board and I tell everyone that when this happens you ask them to put it in writing so I have documentation in the court room . This also goes for any building inspector telling me to do something incorrect. Your comment is great and I greatly appreciate it. Thank you.
@@ConstructionConsumerAdvocacy last time I questioned a plan I got told by the site agent “ if you don’t like it fuck off “ 🤦♂️🤣
@@paulbackhard6315 get them to put it in writing if possible.
@@ConstructionConsumerAdvocacy uh....isn't the plan in writing?It is an illustration as well,so there can be no misunderstanding.
Should I ask the engineer for a drop of his blood next to his signature?
25 years ago we wouldput lag screws every 18" staggered. But he shouldn't put that load on the bay like that.
The first call is made by the approval for construction drawing by the council.
Any modification would be a variation cost for the builder if he is not the designer.
I see no fault on the builders part of he’s following the plans - but I do see myself charging this guy an asshole tax of +30% on the entire project for trying to blast the contractor on social media rather than talk to him directly.
Folks, this is why you can't trust these rags calling themselves contractors
@@GallowayBuildingServices I don’t know why you would blame a contractor for this your name must be Karen
@@kickngravel6063 Because you want to steal from your clients is no excuse. BTW, the Contactor lost in court for this and had to pay to correct it and my wages for inspecting it OL Guess we be looking for your lack of work soon
You are total scum if you watched that video and take the side of the home owner. Pure scum.
The fact that, anyone would even think, that it’s ok to attach a heavy load bearing structure; such as deck, to a semi free standing structure, such as a bay, is mind numbing.
He built it according to blueprints, so it's the engineers fault if something's wrong. And it's probably completely fine since that's only a 2 foot cantilever
@@danielyeary148 You’re absolutely right about it being the engineers fault; however with todays crap quality materials, there’s no way I would trust that to hold.
Yea I’m kind of dumb and could have told you that
And he doesnt show that it is a free standing cantilever. That would mean the floor joists inside for that floor are running parallel with that wall, and that Cant is built off a doubled floor joist. Then yeah, you can bow the floor up . But more than likely and my guess is the floor joists are running to that wall and sitting on it, and the Cant was made by using 2 foot longer joists, 14 footers as compared to 12. And in that case you can definitely header off on them.
@@snwlcke3 if you have heavy snow or the ground, on the pillar side, settles it’s pulling that side down eventually. It’s best to have a independent standing deck, that butts up against the house, so if the deck goes your house is not compromised.
The prints are just to get permits on these little residential projects and are never a 100% correct. Jobs like this a good builder would let the customer know and fix it in the fly.
Right On!!!
Up here in Maine you wouldn't want to make an error on structure cause the snow load will flatten it
You got that right!!! :-)
The fact that I don’t see any material exactly where he’s talking about makes me wonder if it’s not in the process of being rectified.
I had to put a stop work order on it. Great observation 👍
Good video. Save lots of headaches if you catch weaknesses early.
U can't deviate from the plan. If you know something is wrong thing bring it up with the architect. But inspector will not like that it's different than drawn. I have been burned so many times doing it the right way but according to the inspector the " right way" is per plan.
Look here boss man that LOOKED fine.Its this kinda holey B's.the man said all he needed was another board behind the work he did.1 board?Thats what makes all the difference folks another 2x10 or 12
I love it LOL :-)
The homeowner is at fault not the contractor because it is ultimately the homeowner that's responsible for the structural engineering being in compliance with code.
This may be true where you live but not anywhere else in the country. I am registered as an Construction Expert witness for litigation. I know this first hand :-) Honestly, if your contractor doesn't know this you got a bad contractor
@@ConstructionConsumerAdvocacy what I was referring to was building and zoning, they hold the homeowner responsible not the contractor, but I do agree that a competent contractor should be completely familiar with structural integrity of what he builds
There's people just hating on others work like this man
Decks and stairs are a black hole that swallows up all your time and money.
Spearin doctrine. If it’s a design/build contractor, the contractors responsible regardless if they hired an engineer. If owner supplied drawings, contractor isn’t liable but is required to let owner know of there’s a problem with drawings. Ultimately, there still liable. It’s called the Spearin doctrine. Designed to protect owner or GC
Now what makes you think the contractor didn’t speak with the engineer about the blueprints?
Great question but I know the contractor and that's how I knew he was a union carpenter. Says a lot about the poor training the Union is doing now.
If engineer stamped the plans and then town approved and issued permits how it is contractorrs fault??? Even if engineer made a mistake and then plan examiner did not catch the mistake either , contractor is the last guy to blame!
We all live and learn. Atleast at this point it would have been an easy fix with very little wasted material.
Joist Hangers should be Full not partial.I can see several other issues to.
There were tons wrong with this deck. Good eye!!! Thank you for watching our videos and please hit "Like" & "Follow" for more videos and our Radio show podcast.
To someone who doesn’t do this for a living, can you explain what was wrong here in simple terms other than it wasn’t done right?
The header is missing and the deck is hanging from the bay. This can and has pulled the bay away from the home. Great question! Hit like and subscribe to get all the newest videos. :-)
The “bay” the window was in isn’t really structural in the sense you can not attach the deck to it.
They wanted the piece on the bay to extend to the left and to the right and be fastened to the double joists.
That bay isn't bearing or structure on the house, it is 3 walls nailed to the outside of the bearing wall on the house. Therefor if you put any kind of weight or load on it the chances of it coming down or sagging are 100%
Decks have to hold up loads: their own weight, plus the people and stuff that are on them (including any snow load).
Figure the deck is heavy, and throw in some 250# men standing on it. Say 1,000# on that section.
Whatever it's attached to had better be able to support that load.
A bay window like that is pretty much built to hold itself up, maybe someone sitting there. Figure it would probably take 200..400 pounds of load.
Now put 1,000# on it.
Standup and reach your arms straight out. The main portion of your body stands on the foundation. Your outstretched arms are the bay window. Now add weight to your outstretched arms
I have a bay window.
I hate it.
Should I attach floor joists to it so it falls off?
Thanks in advance.
Union says it all lmfao
People like this are funny, he would be saying the opposite if he was the builder following the blueprint.
very good point, thank you for your video
Good point of view
What about the fact that those joists are actually cantilevers running all the way back inside
Actually the joist are rarely long enough to extend 2 feet over the foundation and back to the steel beam towards the center of the home. Even if they are the joist are only as strong as the point of termination past the foundation. Also, homes are built to 40lbs per sq ft. Decks are built to 60 lbs per square foot. So we have 2 different load requirements. Good question :-)
Sorry but building codes supersedes a stamped and approve set of blue prints. This would not be the first time this has happened and it would not be on the ones that approved the plan it would fall on ones not meeting the code.
RIGHT ON!!! I am surprised to the number of so called contractors that replied and augured against that.
As a builder, when in doubt, I always question the engineer.....sometimes I'm right and more often than not he's right but the final decision rests with the engineer. I found the presentation a bit snarky.......an easy fix and I'm sure it will get corrected.
As a contractor. In the state of Florida you have to build exactly to blueprint. no exception. And have dealt with many people like the one that made this video. Problem is they're not an engineer. Nor a contractor
Beware of novice house flippers ripping off contractors because they ran out of money !
Great Advice Joe!!!
@@ConstructionConsumerAdvocacy You have to look for the signs of poorly run remodel. Electrical not finished. No Power. No Trim installed just drywall. New cabinets not installed just sitting on the floor. Listen to other trades onsite and be wary !
@@joelonzello4189 I have been a Home Builder and Building Engineer for 42 years now and I agree with you 100%
@@ConstructionConsumerAdvocacy Thank You Sir 😉
Hopefully plan person refunds contractor. Can't even hire an expert with a college degree to make simple plans.
Dude stop hating, you’re that fk anoing neighbor, the expert on everything
That is not a bay window that's hanging on the side of the house. Those are cantilevered floor joists and I bet when this guy checked with the engineer he found out that he was wrong.
I tell people all the time just because someone has their builders license it really doesn’t mean shit
Code in our county - no can do building a deck from a bay window frame
All you need is some mighty mend it according to Billy mays
LOL :-) I love it :-)
A contractor can not deviate from the approved and stamped plans. The inspectors job is to make sure the contractor follows the plans.. unless the plans have a note saying to verify on the field once its opened then that would be different and the contractor has to use his better judgement.
Put up beams mid way to support the joists they wont come off
Not the carpenters fault, the blueprints are what the blueprints are, no matter what the experience. He’s just a carpenter
I don’t trust even ledgers attached to a house, a couple extra posts and a beam is not a big deal.
If there's plans you build to the plans but need to think on your feet.
looks good, as long as it's flashed properly.
Some Engineers and Architects suck... they will get you in some bullshit ...I put a stop to that years ago when they draw something stupid and I don't like it I make them change it or I won't do it... those joist should have went in all the way under the bay to the existing wall
I 100% agree with you and I am an Engineer
I love how that's about the only 'fuck up ' he can show and if the plans are stamped and approved you can't go another way now what is the double header going to do is create more stress ..
Lol ... I thought the same ... If 1 2x12 isnt good enough slap another on .
I know of 500 homes they are all that way... And no problems
Some carpenters don't have foresight to see ahead of them. I have seen carpenters doing things that are not kosher all the time that even have been doing carpentry for years
You can tell that dude has never built anything more than a shed
Please, in the state I work in architects and engineers don’t even care anymore. They never field measure and if you look at any print every dimension or elevation or detail on a print almost always has v.i.f.(verify in field). Because they don’t want to be held responsible. So it puts fixing their architectural drawings on the foreman or the layout man. He has to bring up every discrepancy found. Construction in my state has just turned into a giant blame game. It’s a result of nothing being planned. No coordination. And for example people wanting 8 month jobs done in 4 months. And the g.c’s. Never say it’s impossible.
sorry but, if that bay has solid material as a rim board and thejoists are cantelevered out far enough from the inside, it's gucci. a quick look in an unfinished basement, aquick look at rim material- good to go. so, "CODE"works good for guys with a broom handle that want to site it.
Engineered plans yes but they sell mobile homes every day in high wind zones built with staples an glue
he may be coming behind with a beam under the bay, posted to competent footing
He’s wrong if he goes by the blue prints cause the blue prints but then he’s also wrong if he doesn’t go by the blue prints. I rather be wrong by going with the blue prints.
If it's on the blue prints I could care less what anyone one else says I'm building exactly how the plans recommends. If it's wrong I just get paid extra to come and fix it later.
Dave V, What i am telling is the solution is to follow the law/code.
2018 IRC Significant Changes to Deck Provisions - Color
Search domain awc.orgwww.awc.org
› pdf › education › › AWC-BCD310-2018IRCDeckConstruction-190523-color.pdf
2018 IRC Significant Changes to Deck Provisions 25 DECK DESIGN Alternative provisions -R301.1.1 Other standards can be used to design a deck. Although not specifically referenced in the IRC,DCA 6-2015, the deck design guideline from the American Wood Council can be used to design a deck. Additional documents may be available in some regions.
2 doubles on both sides of the bay to carry the 10' span infront of the bay is also Mickey mouse.
If you don't put in the header between them you are right.
2018 IRC Significant Changes to Deck Provisions - Color ...
Search domain awc.orgwww.awc.org
› pdf › education › bcd › AWC-BCD310-2018IRCDeckConstruction-190523-color.pdf
2018 IRC Significant Changes to Deck Provisions 25 DECK DESIGN Alternative provisions -R301.1.1 Other standards can be used to design a deck. Although not specifically referenced in the IRC,DCA 6-2015, the deck design guideline from the American Wood Council can be used to design a deck. Additional documents may be available in some regions.
Like 11 joists hanging on a header in joist hangers hanging on a double that’s in joist hangers. Sure, that won’t sag.
It depends if the floor joists behind the bay are continuous over the top plate. If so then that ledger would be fine. If the bat was applied on a flat surface with a ledger as well then no it would be acceptable.
no sir. This is the right way and the only way per the law. 2018 IRC Significant Changes to Deck Provisions - Color
Search domain awc.orgwww.awc.org
› pdf › education › › AWC-BCD310-2018IRCDeckConstruction-190523-color.pdf
2018 IRC Significant Changes to Deck Provisions 25 DECK DESIGN Alternative provisions -R301.1.1 Other standards can be used to design a deck. Although not specifically referenced in the IRC,DCA 6-2015, the deck design guideline from the American Wood Council can be used to design a deck. Additional documents may be available in some regions.
I'd have at least extended them under the Bay to set on the top plate of the existing wall of the home, over each stud. Using 2X8 hangers won't fly where I come from, has to be the full height of the joist using Simpson SDS screws in every hole and at least 2 Simpson SDS's between each Joist connecting to the Rim Joist of the Home.
Leave the ledger on the house, cut the joists back 3 inches, add your doubler and nail everything back together. Easy fix at this point if actually needed. If the bay is framed properly it will be fine the way it is though. Words of a lifelong framer. NEXT
in my area deck beams can not span more than 8 ft without engineer stamp.
Thank God for inspectors cuz a lot of these contractors want to do a half-ass job and get paid they want to cut corners so they can make all the money and nobody they don't want nobody to know what they're doing except they just want to get paid and that's bad. When I haul junk or furniture I do the best job I can every time so people use me cuz that's what I do I work for myself
Can’t see it from my house all good my friend
I've read most of your messages.... none have fixed anything... just more questions what's your fix?
Thanks for the reply; Glad you have your dad still. Doing drywall repairs now. Working about twenty hrs a week. Glad there is no code enforcement on the job! LOL! Take care bro.
What is the external fan for??? (comment from the UK)
On site building inspector has final say so for code enforcement. Plans and blueprints are a guidline and can have mistakes and/or wrong details. My inspector says, he has the final say so, thats why he inspects jobsites.
Blueprints is blueprints.
Not the contractors concern if the blueprints aren't up to code. Why waist time engineering when you're they're to assemble.
Code shouldn't be the contractors concern when following orders, ie a blueprint.
that would have worked fine the hole deck isn't supported on that bay that 8 ft section wouldn't have failed
I would of double up on both sides of the bay and then spanned between the two doubles with joists on hangers .
I'm half and half about this. The contractor should have called it out and refused to proceed with the project until this correction was made by the engineer or architect. That said, depending on the engineer and jurisdiction that revision and review could take weeks or months. In the end, better to do it the right way than to get sued for injury or death. But I do relate to the first contractor saying he's building it according to the stamped approved blue print. Been there too many frustrated times.
Very dangerous
You got that right. Thank you for watching our videos' and please hit like and subscribe for more great videos.
If the bay is cantilevered I can’t see the problem.
I think the dude just wanted to make a quick buck.
it always comes to blaming the little guy
No no no engineer who signed off the print is responsible if it's an approved print it's not on him and as long as you have been doing this you should know
Any builder who hangs a deck load off of a bay window isn't much of a contractor. That should have been questioned immediately. And, any plan done by an engineer or architect with this, is literally a moron...as most actually are.
Holy cow he's gonna rip that whole bay window off the house! Wow. I think he's just being lazy, how else could a union framer not know this?
Well...what if he's got that ledger attached to an actual cantilever with floor joists not a "built on" bay window?
His last statement was gonna be "I don't really know" but he cut it off 🤷 Hahaha!
Ima guess thats why guy had double floor joist on each side of the window... But at minimum should have done a header
That’s what I was wondering. Is it a bay window bolted onto the walls or exterior walls nailed down to a floor joist system. It looks like exterior walls to me
Finding a reply from a fake name account is like finding a glass of water without a bottom in it. Worthless. LOL
The Bay is 1x12 which is good for a wrap but the wrap should be taken off and a header form put in its place with an under-gurding 2x2, 1 inch up off of the bottom of the header as a support along with the hangers. that deck won't go any where.
He’s gonna out a header under it , get out his frickin way !
Whoa! Wtf!!! We need the rest of the video. Great review of work partner!
First off that's a older home so floor joist should be under the bay. The bay will not be pulled off. Second off he had plans that were obviously approved and permitted. Yes there are better ways to build them now but the real question is what are the city codes?
Homes are built for 40 lbs per sq ft, Decks are built by code, 60 lbs per sq ft. Why? Because more people will gather on the deck than in any one room in the house. Bays are built to only carry itself and not the extra weight of a deck and its live load.
Around here , those plans wouldn't get past the plan reviewers . The municipalities will let me submit plans unsealed , pursuant to Missouri statutes, if it it residential and less than three units. . If someone gives me set of plans that are Fubr .. I won't bid on that project. Also around here , that framing error, won't pass framing/final inspection. Although the field inspectors don't like to over rule the plan reviewers When you sell your house , any good home inspector, will catch that framing error. Any good deck builder has seen that one as well.
I'm an electrician and I can tell you we NEVER follow a residential blueprint religiously..... We are trained to know code and that supercedes anything some Poindexter conjured up on CAD
Are you honestly suggesting the "Poindexter" doesn't know the code? There's no doubt that the plans are occasionally bad, and some engineers are lacking. But allowing tradesmen to ignore the plans is more likely to cause issues.
@@cyberpleb2472 when I come to represent the Owner and the Contractor makes this statement you can guarantee you will lose in court everyday. If the contractor doesn't know the codes he or she is in the wrong business. They need to back to labor work only
@@ConstructionConsumerAdvocacy How am I losing in court? Are you sure you are responding to the correct person? Both the contractor and engineer should know the codes. If the plans are not up to code, they should not be followed by the contractor. But the person I am responding to states that they NEVER follow the plans (their emphasis) because the engineers do not know the codes, hence they can and should change the plans as required. They should, of course, bring any violations to the attention of the individuals presenting the plans so that they can correct them. Contractors should not be creating their own plans. If the plans are wrong, why not pin the blame on the individuals that created them (in court, if need be).
SBG this is for you.
This is for all you poor ripoff Contractors.
2018 IRC Significant Changes to Deck Provisions - Color
Search domain awc.orgwww.awc.org
› pdf › education › › AWC-BCD310-2018IRCDeckConstruction-190523-color.pdf
2018 IRC Significant Changes to Deck Provisions 25 DECK DESIGN Alternative provisions -R301.1.1 Other standards can be used to design a deck. Although not specifically referenced in the IRC,DCA 6-2015, the deck design guideline from the American Wood Council can be used to design a deck. Additional documents may be available in some regions.
Always go to the drawings they are gospel if there is a problem you are covered
Ok so headered off across double to doubled up joist. Then run joists back to bay.? As long as its headered? Also seems as he was doin what he's told. Somone else's fuckup not his. I did not know that about the bays. Commen sense tells me it can rip it down. But after you header go to the wall. Then it won't rip down. I'm a sponge. Soaking this shit up
Planning or permits issue should have cot that on the review of the plains .
What's the answer??
You add a header in front of the bay and double floor joist like any header is carried on on the flanks or sides of the bay. Bays are never designed to carry more than 40 lbs per sq ft and decks 60 lbs per sq ft.
@@ConstructionConsumerAdvocacy so double header on Bay to both doubles next to Bay? Sounds good 👍.... thanks 😊....my area doesn't have a lot of second story bays... single story usually and they're supported by foundation
Follow the blueprint that’s it that’s all