How THE EMPIRE STRIKES BACK Ruined All Movies Ever, Forever
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- Опубліковано 20 чер 2024
- An odyssey into the dark side of STAR WARS: The Empire Strikes Back's cultural footprint, a critical examination on the poisonous and toxic history of the movie sequel, and a rumination on how something could be so good that it turns the rest of the world to sh*t. This is Episode II of the Movie Blues Show: How the Empire Strikes Back Ruined All Movies ever, Forever.
0:00 Intro / Bad Take Boogaloo
5:36 EP I - THE SEQUEL MENACE
12:04 EP II - ATTACK OF THE RETCONS
24:19 - EP III - THE DAMAGE AWAKENS
35:34 - EP IV - JUST DON'T MAKE EMPIRE
Written / Directed by Daniel Lyons
Original Music by Chris Gironda
/ tetracube
Alfred Rylands
/ inbok
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Wow. your analysis blew me away. You also ruined every future trilogy for me. Oh well, time to start reading books again. Seriously, thank you.
So as you eventually concluded, it's not a problem with the "Empire elixir" at all, but rather Hollywood's propensity to mindlessly copy a formula that's been successful into oblivion. The next time a talent like Lucas comes along and comes up with a new idea, they will mindlessly copy THAT one into oblivion, too. The people who are truly creative are rarely afforded the opportunity to show it because the people financing creative endeavors would rather do something derivative because they see that as "safe".
Sounds like you understand this video beyond it’s clearly on-purpose clickbait title and actually got the vibe. Nice going and thanks for watching!
Let's hope that soon technology allows anybody to produce a decent movie, like anyone can make a UA-cam video. The problem lies in the entertainment bureaucracy.
They get in the way. We sooner or later won't need them. We are getting there. I'm thrilled that channels like Dust exist for indi Sufi and fan- films. One day ( soon I hope) Hollywood as we know it will be made obsolete or at least redundant to be replaced by your average Joe with a computer.
Yes. Congratulations on understanding the generalization of a process that has been successful for eons and will be for many millennia. Everything has been done, as to how it's accomplished, but not everything has been relatable. The times change, and these stories will be relatable for this generation as they were for ours. George didn't do it first. He did it better, faster, and more intense, but we can all thank his wife for the editing that made it what it is.
You can trash it as much as you like. It will never change the fact you don't care why this generation or other seasoned veterans of Star Wars movie-goers loved it (and the prequel generation loved theirs). All you care about is what you want. Spectacle over substance doesn't work for everyone, and twisting (20:00 to 25:00 being the worst examples) into retcons when the EU (which does contain _some_ good stories) is a retcon of Star Wars itself... I'm glad you found your crowd of Hollywood Haters. I find your jealousy (and dragging every other franchise into this lame argument) ... deflating.
11:00 Did you miss the one tiny fact Darth Vader (in German, meaning the dark father) is still alive, and the relationship between father and son is not resolved at the end because he's _spinning_ off into space? You're simply stating both sides of an argument as to why Star Wars is so loved only to get a rise out of people and ... yeah, clickbait & switch it into an act of dissatisfaction with an accent of, "I love it so much! I can never love anything like it again." It's rambling. It's not as controversial as the original idea. Bad planning is why it's controversial and why it worked from the start, but this merely sounds whiney. Would you like some cheese with that? Enjoy your perspective and allowance of it to ruin everything for the rest of your life. I'm going to enjoy watching this, (no, not this video), that, and those over and over again. 🤣
The likelihood of Hollywood being able to "mindlessly copy THAT one into oblivion, too" is very low because, as you acknowledge, "people who are truly creative are rarely afforded the opportunity to show it", so the "next time a talent like Lucas comes along and comes up with a new idea", it probably will never achieve the success or recognition it deserves because "the people financing creative endeavors would rather do something derivative because they see that as "safe"" and, because of their financial stranglehold on the industry, the majority of audiences will never even be exposed to any "new idea" worthy of celebration and recognition...
@@movieblues420 I've been telling my friends and family for years that there never was a "New Hope -Episode IV". There was just "Star Wars" in 1977. When the big bucks came rolling in though, Lucas went back to the drawing board, retconned everything just for creating plot twists, like the Vader reveal, and claimed it was always going to be a "trilogy". The fact of the matter is that at the end of the first film, the Death Star is destroyed, the Empire is in big trouble, and the good guys have won. There NEVER was any need for a sequel.
Lukas did have a plan. Some of the ideas just change during production, but the overall structure was there. He specifically said in an interview he had to make several films because it wouldn't have fit in 1 Star Wars film, hence the episodes.
Yep, there was an outline, but certain details were not decided on until later. Obviously he didn’t have a huge detailed intricate plan from the start, but he had a general idea of what he wanted to do. I remember him saying in one interview or documentary that Vader was always going to betray the Emperor. Now I don’t know how much of the story he had planned in between, like Vader being Anakin, but he did have a rough outline.
Great insight. I hope you're follow-up video is darker, grittier, and ends on a cliffhanger!
But this IS the follow-up video. Episode #2
Leaving aside that the roots of Star Wars was the old serials... as if they were all scripted out from the beginning without changes to the story as installments were filmed.
My father told me about how the cliffhangers always showed the hero in immediate danger and the subsequent installment would show the scene differently with less immediate danger that gave the hero time to escape. Retcons were inherent to the genre.
And, as MST3K said it so much better: If you're wondering how he eats and breathes. And other science facts, Just repeat to yourself "It's just a show, I should really just relax."
One of the biggest myths perpetrated on fandom is the myth that the original trilogy was planned out from the start.
The only legitimate Hollywood trilogy that I recognize and that for me was completely successful was LotR, which was a trilogy from day one, and not a trilogy conceived after the first film was unexpectedly successful.
It's what separates Lucas from his Japanese doppelganger.
In the Japanese version.... This would be planned.
And I guess played by actual siblings.
@@bobs_toys Who is Lucas japanese doppleganger - Yoshiyuki Tomino ?
@@therussianwanderer4851 I'm pretty sure his Japanese equivalent is most famous on the hub.
But with what keeps popping up on Crunchyroll, maybe not
@@bobs_toys Huh ?
@@therussianwanderer4851 Japanese porn is weird, and even the wholesome anime goes out of its way to not be wholesome.
Your thoughts on Han making her "uncomfortable" in ESB is way off.. she wasn't "threatened" by him.. she was sorting and dealing with the fact that she, despite him being brash and crude and arrogant, really cared about him.. she's a very tough minded woman and a princess who doesn't need anyone and here comes this regular guy who's loud and obnoxious at times and she's falling in love with him and it not only scares her but kinda pisses her off at the same time... if she was really thought he was a sexual predator as you alluded to, why did she say I love you 20 mins later in the movie?? Cmon man have you even seen this movie or are you just rambling for likes and views
I have the same thought I mean Leia was totally drip dripping for Han she was just holding back because she's a lady.. and a princess and a senator..she's been wanting to jump him since he came back after helping luke blow the death Star up. Carey and Harrison were hooking up in real life because their chemistry was undeniable. Go back to the end of Hope and watch how she says to him "I knew there was more to you than just money.. " she was giggling and simping like a schoolgirl.. neu Cannon she always said that she had the hots since day one but him saving Luke's life sealed the deal
@repoman182 ya some of these content creators really have to reach in order to create.. any SWs fan knows when someone is talking out their ass. That's why I was like have you actually seen this movie orrrrrrr just skipped through to make content??? 🤷♂️🤷♂️
I saw Empire in the theatre, when I was 9, and I was very disappointed with the ending. I knew there was going to be a third movie (maybe called Revenge of the Jedi?!) but was stunned that it just seemed to stop, rather than ending with a big moment like Star Wars (later A New Hope) did. I guess the idea of waiting three years (a third of my life at that point) for all those tensions to be resolved was too much.
That's fascinating thanks for sharing that. I was born in '87 so I really didn't get to experience that gap, but man, that must've stung!
I remember it the same, with adults especially upset with the ending. As my dad said at the time, in the Saturday afternoon Serials of his youth (which is after all what Lucas openly copied with this as well as Raiders) cliffhangers only took a week to resolve.
One thing alot of younger viewers don't apperciate is what was at stake with Empire. Star Wars had been huge, but with the Holiday Special (yes I watched it's premiere and to people at the time it absolutely counted) the Galaxy was 50/50. A failure would have ended the franchise full-stop right then and there, as the clout to weather a Solo was far away.
Now I'm wondering how it would feel to go into the holiday special without knowing you're being masochistic and doing it for completeness.
@@bobs_toys Funny all I remember clearly from that year is the Special, and my grandad dying. You remember the traumatic things I guess.
@@ahhamartin that's a tough year
I don't think it's an empire strike problem, I think this is how good stories work in human mind. The same happens with mythology, you can see how it starts relatively innocent and then it starts getting darker and darker as centuries pass, and every story has a sequel, and it never ends. Heroes end up becoming villains all the time in mythology too.
As i stated in the video, it isn’t a problem Empire invented, but Empire opened the floodgates for this model to be adopted nearly every film franchise.
@@daniellyons3738 The thing is, I am not so sure about it. It may have been one of the first (not the first, by the way, there have been many cycles with similar trends in the past, in western, etc.) but the thing is, it probably would have happened anyway.
It's interesting to point out Empire Strike as a precursor of sorts but I think you may be giving it too much credit. Maybe I am wrong.
It's just the standard Hollywood "3-act" trope, with each of the movies (ANH/ESB/RotJ) serving as one of the acts. Sometimes content creators get so enamored of what they think is an original theory that they don't realize how mundane their concept actually is. The reason this structure is not seen much before Star Wars is just because trilogy movies weren't really a thing before then.
According to Lucas, Luke was always going to have a twin sister and Vader was always going to be revealed as their father. According to one of the producers, the original trilogy was originally going to be four movies with further planned sequels afterwards, and the original third movie was going to be about saving Han Solo, with Boba Fett as the main villain. This third movie was going to introduce a Force-sensitive young woman who would be revealed to be Luke's twin in the fourth movie. However, Lucas' wife left him for another man after Empire, and Lucas was pretty bitter about life for a while. So, Lucas decided to wrap things up in one movie. He still wanted to have the twin sister for some reason but didn't think it would work with a completely new character, so he changed Leia into Luke's sister.
You should know that Lucas, being the master storyteller that he is, has changed that story numerous times. It's generally accepted that the "Vader killed your father" statement was the literal truth in '77.
@@ahhamartin And by all what I remember reading during the 80s, what was planned right in the beginning was Luke and Leia becoming the couple, but then Lucas or somebody else realized that Han and Leia seemed to have more chemistry onscreen - perhaps because Fisher and Ford actually had a short affair and from what she wrote in her autobiography the impression is that she may have pined for him somewhat longer - and it was changed to Leia and Han, and then even later Leia was made into the twin sister, and all that is why there are some now somewhat disturbing hints planted of possible sexual attraction between Luke and Leia, Luke and Han being rivals for Leia, and that kiss happened.
Of course, if you go with realistic, siblings who have been raised apart and don't know they are siblings may very well become sexually attracted to each. What may be at least one part of the barrier between siblings is the fact that they grow up together, especially are living with each other between the ages 1 and 6, as completely biologically unrelated individuals who have been in the same household since birth often seem to have that same barrier, they just aren't interested at all that way (the Westermarck effect). And part is of course the taboos that exist in most societies.
BTW, off topic, but why do people seem to think that Harrison Ford was handsome (or is...)? Guy looks pretty average to me, always has. Young Mel Gibson was handsome, young Gregory Beck was handsome, young Johnny Depp was sort of handsome, Ford... meh (Mark Hamill was better looking before his accident, but it turned him from handsome to average as his nose was pretty much ruined going from well defined and straight to somewhat saddle-shaped and twisted sidewise, and his jaw is also less well defined - I thought for a moment that they had replaced the actor when I first saw ESB). If you take that as handsome half of the men I have known during my life have been handsome, some of course only when they were young, but still... shouldn't "handsome" be used for something a bit more rare than what about half of the male population has been at some point of their lives, or could still be if they took better care of themselves?
@@pohjanakka4992 I think this just comes down to your personal taste, I think Ford was quite handsome, more so than Gibson and Beck for sure.
I tried, really, but you died on the hill and I shut it off at 5:01. I respect you more than you could ever imagine for admitting that the debut film is the best of the bunch, despite knowing that anyone cool "knows" Empire is nothing less than cinematic perfection. I also applaud your defense of Episode IX (tho I don't agree with it) but only to a point. I could probably spend the rest of my natural life detailing the gargantuan list of reasons Episode IX was infinitely more of an insulting embarassment than a course correcting apology and your feverent testimony to the contrary was just too much for me to take. I really wish you'd been more liberal with your editing as I was genuinely interested in hearing your argument for the subject matter but the intro ran just a bit too long so I'm off. Seriously, even disregarding its content, five minutes is a big ask for us to sit through before even approaching the point. All said, I do wish you the best with the success of this channel and all other aspects of your life. Peace.
right? this had like 30 seconds of real actual content and 40 minutes of bad jokes and going on tangents and cutting other stuff in.
I mean, if you specifically want to make money off of a 40 minute video of Star Wars hot takes, more research would be advisable, so that you don't look like your hot takes are born out of pure ignorance.
While I agree with your basic premise that the need for twists, which lead to this generation of filmmakers' mystery box obsession, seems to have started with the Vader twist (at least that's where I assume you're going with this), you just have SO many details completely wrong. Halfway through, I have so far:
- Lucas DID have a plan for the original trilogy, but it was basically one page of notes, and probably more underdeveloped ideas in his head, but big-picture stuff only, obviously loose enough to allow for changes like Darth Vader actually being Luke's father. There's a story that Lucas was inspired by the Swedes' confusion at Vader's name, since it sounds pretty much like "Dark Father" in Swedish, but that story might be apocryphal. (FWIW, I refuse to believe that the sequel trilogy didn't have at least that much of a plan, too, albeit probably a boring and predictable one, but I think they let Rian Johnson throw it away in favor of his own thing and Lucasfilm was so embarrassed by how it turned out that they'd rather lie and say they had no plan than admit they had one and decided to ignore it completely.)
- The "great" Lawrence Kasdan wasn't "great" at that point, yet. Lucas helped him get his first film made because of his work on Empire (and maybe in exchange for agreeing to stay on for Indy). Lucas had originally contracted the respected Sci-Fi author Leigh Brackett to write Empire's script, but she unfortunately passed away before she could finish it.
- Lucas didn't retcon Leia into being Luke's sister to have a "twist", he had fully intended to have Luke's sister be a completely different character, but ran short on runtime to actually introduce and flesh out a new character, so Leia was elected as the "other hope".
- The Bothans didn't die to bring the Rebels the plans for the first Death Star in ANH, they died to bring the Rebels the news and location of the SECOND Death Star in RoTJ. You even got a cartoon clip of the correct movie, but I guess incorrectly connected the dots from Rogue One to RoTJ instead of ANH. (I do have a lot of other problems with Rogue One retcons, however.)
On the other hand, I fully agree that Tartakovsky's Clone Wars is vastly underrated and it's a crime that Lucas de-canonized it to make way for The Clone Wars CGI series, for all that the CGI series has some great stories that balance out the bad.
I'm not at all saying that Star Wars is beyond reproach and you make some other good points about how retcons for sequels can damage the value of the original thing. But if you're going to criticize, criticize actual valid stuff rather than ranting about things you just got wrong or misunderstood.
oh, does being this big of a digressing windbag earn you money? that makes the entire trashfire make sense. i cant believe i wasted time on this video.
Leia being Lukes sister was a last minute move. When George and Marcia Lucas (arguably George's muse) began to have marital difficulties George fell out of love with Star Wars. You can tell because Jedi has that contractual obligation project feel and many of the problems the prequels have. It's one check box list of exits and tied up lose ends. Originally Lukes sister was going to be a Rey like character and would only take down the Emperor in the last episode. 9 or 12. But once Lucas decided to call it a day with the 3rd film he had to write an explanation for the "other" line in Empire. Vader being Lukes father was also a late in the day change but it's less problematic as neither Luke or Leia had banged Vader yet.
Lucas didn’t “fall out of love with Star Wars.” He was going through a horrible divorce and didn’t want to keep dragging the story out. He realized that if he introduced a totally new character for Luke’s sister he would have to make more movies. RTOJ is a good movie even though it has a few issues.
Also the prequels are fine. You can tell he put tons of passion into those movies. This whole narrative that he just got greedy after ANH is bs. Yes, he loves making money, but he made money in order to make more movies for our enjoyment. George wanted to make more movies set after ROTJ, but he knew he was too old to do it.
That's the nature of Hollywood, to copy, it's not Star Wars' fault. Though it often get's blamed for the crime of creating The Blockbuster, not for having a great sequel which also ruined everything!?
How can you blame Empire + its genius for piss-poor imitator's?
Yeah. G.Lucas ended up as a business guy but 1-6 taken as one, whole story is fantastic mythology.
Stories change, evolve + take risk’s too as they grow or you'd be saying, they just re-made the same safe Star Wars story over + over. When every Star Wars film took risks?
Vader, the epitome of evil was turned into a sympathetic character in ROTJ for ex!
Luke completed his Heroes' Journey + became a Jedi by throwing his weapon away. Not by slaying the monster, which is what his Masters were telling him he'd have to do + which would happen in a modern Hollywood film today, see TROS!
The Original Trilogy was a Joseph Campbell inspired Hero With A Thousand Faces journey.
Whereas The Prequels were a mythic tragedy + had a much different setup.
It started off even lighter in tone than Star Wars, but with the main Menace in the background, also achieving his goal in EP I. Then Epidode II expand's on this to make the split a Galaxy-wide conflict.
Then Revenge Of The Sith is, erm... the Revenge, the Tragedy + the Fall.
I feel it shows a real lack of awareness when folk use today's politics to criticise old art too. Han's bothering of Leia leads to her professing her love for him. He already knew she loved him. But they both had to become better people before they could earn or get with each other, so to speak.
Him to be less selfish, her to be less cold, in layman's terms!
But at the time, that was not a creepy scene at all, just like today it's not considered creepy when a woman throw's herself at a man + use's her sex to demand attention. Time's change.
But Star Wars has timeless issue's, that's why it mean's so much to so many. Until we (d)evolve into A.I. Borgs or go back to the Spiritual Beings which we are, I suppose?
I'm not sure Vader being Luke's father was retconned either. I feel it was left open-ended on purpose. As making a sequel depended on the success of Star Wars in a lot of ways.
Lucas had the OUTLINE of the original 3 and a backstory for where all these character's came from, in rough form, though. There are multiple books which prove this.
Of course the story changed + evolved a bit. 99% do, so as not to become creatively bankrupt. Which Star Wars never did until Disney got its mitt's on it.
Both Vader + The Emperor are alive at the end of Star Wars! Not all of the loose ends had been tied up, but a casual fan could enjoy it as a 1-off experience, yeah.
Anyone can see that the original trilogy had a different set-up to the Prequel's though!?
The Force was never a faith either. You could literally see + hear the effects of it in the film!?
Watch the scene where Darth Vader "Force choke's" the Imperial officer in Star Wars.
Spirit + Science are not mutually exclusive, this is another mis-take imo. Science is just the way that most "mental" Human's choose to test out who we are + where we belong in The Universe.
Some choose that + some choose actual come-union to Spirit + The Uni-verse via meditation, such as the Tibetan monks for ex. But anyone can do it.
I can see what you're saying but I can't say's I agree.
Star Wars, the original 6 anyway, were creative film's from my pov, despite the flaws + probable "retcons," whereas the Sequel's were the copyist's who then resorted to deconstructing + destroying them in a vain attempt to be original.
I suppose they are original, as in an original mess, or film's that choose to push modern, one-sided, "progressive" political + hate a-gender's, over a story which had always shown both "sides" + was based more on moral philosophy, psychology, symbiosis, energy in motional he-art + mythology before, if I stretch to reach for some common ground.
But that's why the original film's will always be more Universally loved compared to the preaching, split, political Sequel's, which started with VII + not IV imo.
But again, you can't blame "Empire" for Hollywood's greed or Lucas' need to tell an optimistic story where The Alliance win's by joining together.
Well the one thing you missed (about 3/4 through the video) Tolkien actually did this with Two Towers in literature. It has all the elements, except maybe the family plot twist bit.
Except Lord of the Rings existed decades before Star Wars, so the Empire elixir thing doesn't happen here.
You mean to tell me the Act II structure that has been around since plays ruins everything eventually? Harry Potter’s ending is very satisfying at-least in the books which I’m guessing from the content in this video you didn’t read. Goblet isn’t dark until the end. It’s the last light book perhaps.
You simultaneously give Lucas and Star Wars not enough credit and too much credit at the same time. I’m not saying Star Wars didn’t influence things and that Lucas had everything figured out from the beginning but the man essentially shadow directed Empire and Jedi.
The thing is he stayed away from actor direction which was probably for the best.
Ok.. here's a question. Leia kisses Luke in the beginning of the film. Vader turns out to secretly be his father by the end of the film. why is it so impossible that Leia was planned as a potential sibling to Luke? and you know what, maybe she wasn't. Why is it such a point of conversation? Is everyone trying to ask something else and no one has managed to put it in words? or is it just ragging on small points in the script because no one is able to be happy that the OT actually turned out fairly strong. Did everyone secretly want Luke and Leia together, and was offended they turned out to be twins? I mean they do look similar enough... sort of.
Ok video 📹, but you got a handful of things wrong.
Empire Strikes Back is not the first dark sequel to a big franchise. Ever heard of Bride of Frankenstein 👰 or Beneath the Planet of the Apes? Also, if look at Star Wars Episodes V and VI back to back, they sure look like A New Hope as a two parter. 🤔
I was against you until 33:20. I love you. AWESOME WORK!
Less than a year old when SW was out, Empire was the first film I truly remember seeing in theater.
Still the best sequel ever and lead example of improvement on original (runner-up prizes to Aliens and T2)
i like how that music sampled that radio head around 24:00
The Bothans died to get the plans for the second Death Star, not the first.
I can make it even easier. Read the first 3 Dune books, then, compare them to the Star Wars novelization from 1976 and then Star Wars the movie from 1977.
Lucas likes to say "Monomyth" like it's some sort of Mind Trick, but there comes a point where you can take the most classic scenes and characters from Star Wars and find the very pages from Dune, Dune Messiah and Children of Dune where they're lifted from.
The nostolgia we all have for this stuff comes from action figures and Christmas mornings. And, the adventures of "Wormy" Skywalker are going to be retconned over and over again to appease whichever generational demographic with absolutely no respect, because it's a toy commercial.
great response. also, god do i love dune
@@movieblues420 I loved your video too. I played way too much Shadows of the Empire on N64 back in the day.
@@thomriley1036 thanks buddy! Dude i just got Shadows of the Empire on my steam deck and it truly never gets old. It's like, one of the most nostalgic games of my lifetime for sure.
@@movieblues420 I recall that "WampaStompa" is the name you enter to get to the debug menu with all the cheat codes.
Dune has one strike against it, though. It totally ran out of steam after the fourth book. Heretics and Chapterhouse were hot garbage, and anything else is basically fanfic.
He didn't have finished scripts but was working with an overall proof he had been working on since college. Which is completely different from not having a plan.
Back to the Future clearly drank that Empire Elixir.
BTF 2 is great
Episode IV clearly was a "knight saves the princess" adventure. Also, Vader and Anankin Skywalker were different people. The reveal in Empire ruined the whole thing in my opinion, but in light of its huge financial success it didn't matter in the end. The sacrifice of the consistency of the story to make the plot more interesting (and by extension more profitable) proved to be extremely fruitful. I agree that Hollywood established a recipe based on (and not just limited to of course) Episode V's performance in the market.
How did the reveal in Episode 5 ruin the whole thing in your opinion?
@@trevturp6891 Call me old school but when I watched A New Hope for the first time I thought (and hoped too) that Luke would end up with Leia. That went down the drain. More importantly, Lucas and his team could have explored the relationship between Anakin and Vader, Vader's betrayal of his brother-in-arms, Luke seeking revenge from Vader and Vader's atonement. I believe it would have gone way more smoothly than this mess we have now with fallen Jedi fathers, twins, Obi-Wan and his "from a point of view" stories (to cover up the Anakin/Vader plothole).
Everyone in '80, from James Earl Jones himself to my own father, thought Vader was lying.
Great stuff. I've not seen your episode 1 yet; I look forward to something less dark, less moody, less peril and fewer family connections ...etc
LOL ya got me with this
It's not a retcon when the original visionary figures the story out as he goes. That was completely different than Disney hacks doing what they've been doing. I was a kid in 1980 and it was obvious that wasn't the original plan even to me at that age.
The WORST "retcon" in history has to be the "Terminator" franchise, especially "Genesis" and "Dark Fate"!
I liked your take on the exponential growth of RedCons in SW.
But to think of ending a serial episode on a cliff hanger as something new, seems incredulous.
Is that an attempt to RedCon your video, within the video itself?
For every good take here, there's a bad one. I shouldn't have watched the video, it's all over the place, some things are very well reasoned and others make no sense, sometimes the author seems to make an effort to be rational, relatively objective , specially when it's starting... and at the end it seems like he just doesn't give a damn anymore, and keeps saying dumb stuff with 0 back up...
Lol damn i didn't think anyone would make it to the end, u weren't supposed to see that far
also mathematically that means you got 20 minutes of good takes here that ain't bad
Thank you. What you're describing is what tv shows do. And the mcu is the culmination of this horrible phenomenon.
As to the father twist, i've grown to dislike it as i've grown up. It transformed star wars from a simple story of good versus evil to a family drama. It led to a weak ass redemption arc. a non-hero who would put familial ties above the lives of the entire galaxy. And the origin story of essentially a school shooter.
The father reveal is just dumb. Luke's reaction is absolutely incoherent. He has no reason to believe that there is still 'good' in Vader. He should have absolutely no attachment to a man who, for all he knows, abandoned him and doesn't care about him. U could argue that the hope and attachment are part of Luke's character. The optimistic Luke. But that just makes it worse. He didn't have that hope or optimism when Vader wasn't his father. And Vader could have had 'good' in him then, but Luke wanted to kill him. With some lines, Luke is transformed into a selfish creature who values his family over the galaxy.
U could argue Luke was always that way in that he valued his friends over the galaxy. But the difference is that his friends deserved and earned his care, Vader did not. In fact, before the father reveal, Vader had earned Luke's scorn and contempt.
The father twist is great for the shock value. But from a narrative perspective, it is just underwhelming.
agreed! thanks for this breakdown, hope you enjoyed the vid :-)
Loved the video; 45 minute running time didn't matter. New sub!
Thanks man, I really appreciate that. I’m working on some great new content right now for the channel, stay tuned and thanks for this nice comment!
this video is just "waaa blockbuster action movies get sequels that all use the same structure even though that structure works well for making a good story"
Plot twist is the path to the dark side. Plot twist leads to retcon. Retcon leads to implausibility. Implausibility leads to disaffection.
lol amazing summary
Lucas had a fluid plan! Thank you for not respecting the plot.
Eh, if you know you're going to make a connected trilogy then I think the Empire way of doing it is your best bet. I think can safely ditch the familial connection every time, but other than that the second movie should set up the third film, be darker and leave the main characters in worse-off situations, otherwise you basically just have other stories involving the same characters instead of a long arching story, which I prefer really. One-offs are nice here and there, but I like to be invested in longer stories, which is why I'm glad most televisions shows have moved to an overarching season and series-long story premise. I know a lot of people hate that and prefer the one-off stories of yore, and I'm sorry they don't get more of that, but not sorry enough to hope we regress back to that style for most things.
I'm willing to bet you're glad UA-cam removed the dislike counter
1:36 I can go along with the idea that Empire is "the second greatest Star Wars film of all time",
but Star Wars '77 (AKA ANH) doesn't simply "outpace Empire" by virtue of ingenuity.
Star Wars absolutely demolishes all action adventure films.
Empire's second place is miles behind Star Wars'77's victory. I made some vids about it. ua-cam.com/play/PLwfxx_7ZXUJgnss333QGbhsLwrxW6L5C0.html
nice! thanks for sharing. Hope you enjoyed the vid
@@movieblues420 glad you appreciate the comment - but it's very difficult to find folks willing to engage with the specific challenge of explaining how Empire is the great movie it's so often claimed to be. oh well.
@@VirtualSG oh believe me, i have been feeling that blacklash HARD lol
There are clear and detailed references to the climatic duel on Mustafar, from the end of Episode III, in script drafts as early as in 1974. Lucas DID have a plan (multiple, taking into account Splinter of the Mind's Eye was supposed to be Star Wars' sequel if it had failed), he just changed some things during the 30 years he spent writing his story like any screenwriter does.
I would say it's more that he had IDEAS, not so much a fully thought-out plan. But yes you're correct that the idea of Vader needing the suit because of a duel vs. Obi-Wan on a volcano has been around since early drafts
Right on. Thanks for sharing.
Midichorians are not the Force there a conduit that the Whills speak through. It’s not a retcon either that was penned before A New Hope came out as Star Wars in 1977.
It might come as a shocking retcon to people in 1999 but it’s not somehow the Emperor Returns by any stretch.
We would’ve gotten an interesting explanation to everything related to the Force and the microbiological world that would’ve been original and at least better than what we got. A last part of the story should delve deep like that.
Also it’s debatable if I am your father is a retcon story’s change as they’re written. Sure Anakin and Vader were originally going to be 2 separate people but as I said stories change. Leia’s relation to Luke is a retcon feels less so after the prequels but I digress.
What George wrote the Force as was likely never going to change much.
Vader being Luke's father was genius, Leia getting tagged along wasn't.
Kinda reaches to the point of the video. What empire did right, it did so well that all future imitations are, well, not the genuine article
It (the leia thing) might have been genius if it were built upon in a sequel trilogy (and it had weight in many of the star wars EU projects)
@@timewarpdrive77 Lucas wanted Luke to have a twin sister, but he and the other people working on the project knew that they would need to make more movies if they wanted to introduce a totally new character. So George opted to make Leia the long lost twin of Luke. There are other factors, but that’s one of the main reasons Luke and Leia were made twins.
@@samkornrumph8545 Yes; I know.. How does any of this relate to what I was saying
As far as Leia and Luke being related as retcon- In A New Hope Leia kisses Luke on the cheek. It's not until Empire when they kiss on the lips. The same movie where it's revealed Vader is Luke's father and that "there is another" referring to Leia. From the earliest versions of the story, Lucas planned on the story being about twins. Bah. Kiss on the lips, no biggie.
Many Bothans Died right before Return of the Jedi to get information on the Death Star II. Rogue One happens before A New Hope.
This is about as factual as the Red Letter Media garbage. A few good points sprinkled into a lot of bad takes. I’m half way through this video.
The Vader-Luke connection wasn't as big a recon as depicted. There was ALWAYS a connection. In ANH, Ben specifically says that Vader killed Luke's father. There's a personal connection, a motivation for vendetta which needs to play out. Even if Vader had not been Anakin, then Luke would STILL have to redeem his father and defeat Vader. So the big story would still play out similarly.
What really broke it was Leia being a Skywalker. That was never the idea during ESB. According to Kurtz, the plan (and yes, there was a plan--it was constantly in motion, however) was for a totally new character being introduced to be Luke's sister, but Lucas wanted to tie up everything in Jedi and be done with it. Thus, everything that was going to happen, from the Emperor showing up, Luke's adventures as a Jedi, introduction of Luke's sister, etc., all had to be done in a single movie with existing characters.
And of course, the postquels jumped all over Leia to further recon even more.
kinda sounds like the trend started with the empire reveal tho 🤷♂️
18:32 see but Obi Wan doesn’t indulge in the affair where Anakin dives into headfirst
People need to remember these movies are meant for kids. Disney buys franchises, inflates them up till they can't hold air no more then let them Go farting around the room. As for science fiction I've grown up I'm more interested in real life. We are finding real planets around other stars more bizarre than any star wars movie.
Predator 2 is awesome. Better than any other Predator film which came after it.
yeah man totally. Predator 2 is such a damn vibe
@@movieblues420
Prey sucked.
@@anubusx You know, I didn't mind Prey, but I really didn't think it added much we haven't seen to the franchise. THE PREDATOR, now that, that fucking movie SUCKED
@@movieblues420
It certainly did.
Harry Potter didn't have an Empire thingy going on. Harry Potter existed as a series of novels before the films were even made, the movie scripts were the novels.
Your tartokovsky clone wars take is correct thank you for being right
😊😊
That They fly now ruined the whole movie for me. Finn would have known about the jump troopers.
I have been saying this for years. I love Empire Strikes Back the movie, but I hate what it did to the franchise and specifically the Original movie.
I often wonder if Lucas made the Original Trilogy but kept with the storyline that Vader and Luke’s father were 2 different people?
First, it would have preserved the 1977 movie so when fans watch it today, it isn’t full of contradictions. Think about a new Star Wars fan watching Episode 4 in that order? The movie sticks out like a sore thumb on all levels. Obiwan is a big liar, Vader/Luke/Leia are all related, C3PO was Anakin’s droid, and R2 knows that Vader is Luke’s father the whole time and says nothing.
If Lucas kept with the 1977 storyline in 1980, I think the franchise may have actually thrived long-term in a different way. The biggest problem with the franchise and the fans is they want nostalgia and nothing new. We love Luke in The Mandallorian! We love Vader in Rogue One! We want more Boba Fett!
I think Star Wats 2 in 1980 that didn’t have the twist may have not been as impactful to pop culture, but it wouldn’t have put Star Wars in a box forever. To this day, the franchise is still in that box and telling stories that take 1 step forward and 2 steps back.
great response! hope you enjoyed the vid.
Midichlorians aren’t a bad retcon. They’re barely a retcon in the first place. They’re more of an explanation of why certain people can use the force and others can’t. The idea that the ability to become a Jedi is inherited or specific to certain people was set up in the OT. Anyone can believe in the force or follow the will of the force, but only those who are born with a natural connection to the force can use the it. Just like people in real life have certain skills that they are born with.
Also, C3P0 had his memory wiped at the end of ROTS. That’s why he doesn’t remember Vader, Kenobi, or Owen. Vader never meets Threepio. And who cares if Anakin built Threepio? It doesn’t really change much. And Owen Lars didn’t really have much time to remember who Threepio was in ANH if he even connected the dots. The whole thing is a non-issue.
4:11 Well that's not entirely a computer effect because the footage of Leia in The Rise of Skywalker was mainly deleted scenes from The Force Awakens.
32:57 Well the problem with that is that there weren't a lot of sequels before Empire so its hard to list a number of them that use them even if Empire wasn't the reason why its formula is used so much.
36:18 Weird random fact film was actually shot as one movie and then the studio said it was too long and had to be split into two movies so while this isn't a criticism of the film it is kind of ironic that you bring it up as a film that is different than its predecessor.
No "sequel bait" as Darth Vader is sent spinning off into space?!?!
Vader spinning off into space IS the sequel bait.
Just sayin'. 🤔😒
Actually, the 3 ACT idea that George Lucas borrowed was not from movie sequels but - since they called Star Wars a 'Space Opera' at times - it is based off of 3 Act plays and operas. Where - yes - Act 1 introduces characters, and much like the Campbell book 'Hero's Journey' the second act will have complicated events and trials and cliffhanger, then the third Act will be the resolve. You are totally right with all your video, but Lucas DID find a platform to copy from in every angle. Nothing he did really was original. He borrowed bits of everything and unlike most people he cleverly made it work out. .No one needs to guess it. He said this all in interviews over the years at random times. Most writers these days do not look at operas and plays with the three Act cycles. but that is where he had the idea of making the second film darker. Even his alternate low budget sequel story Splinter Of The Mind's Eye was set up as a darker story.
There was never originally a 'master plan'. Vader was not initially Luke's father, and Leia was not initially Luke's sister (in the original scripts, she was around 16). Lucas has been caught several times being an asinine revisionist liar and self-promoter trying to push the idea of his cohesive genius plan (such as inserting a mention of midi-chlorians into a pre-exisiting very early story document, and this was revealed by Rinzler)
Give me a break. Lucas not having a full series of sequels mapped out when he got Star Wars greenlit isn’t in the same universe as the irresponsibility of the wealthiest studio in the history going into the most anticipated known sequel trilogy of the most lucrative media property in history. The comparison is asinine.
He did loosly have it mapped out though
nice
The Bothans died while getting information about the SECOND Death Star.
yeah actually thats been pointed out probably 20 times in these comments but hell yes, they sure did
I've seen this "Han is sexually harassing Leia" take a few times and I find it persuasive. But every time I show it to a woman, she's like "No, it's fine" or even "I wish more men would act this way." It's like there's one set of rules for men they LIKE, and another set for men that they don't like.
i actually based this segment off my wife’s uncomfortable take on their relationship, i never noticed it before until she brought it up!
Lololol, always so easy to spot an incel
I liked strange magic. It was a cute little film that actually looked pretty good as cgi.
Godzilla Returns (1984), known as Godzilla 1985 in the USA, allowed Toho to retcon/completely disregard an entire *generation* of the series’ own canon. Js
And from the Japanese version to the American version it retcons itself so that the soviet ship captain dies launching a nuclear strike against Godzilla rather than dying trying to stop an erroneous one.
Fuck, I really think this concept is whats fucked modern cinema. Marvel, Star wars... its all tanking and barbie and Oppenhiemer is doing great. Its clear that new is needed!
yup totally
True, but wait until you see Barbie 2, where it's revealed that Ken is Barbie's brother.
I really like the clone wars cartoon but I agree with most of your criticisms
I never liked the clone wars, especially the movie (people must’ve forgotten how insufferable Ahsoka was)
Decided to stick it out until the end. There may have been a couple good points (retcons and darkness) to make about _Empire,_ but most of the rest is poor, which is why thumbs down currently exceeds thumbs up.
If the original _Star Wars_ had allowed Obi-Wan to survive, the sequel would have been completely different from what we got. Probably no Yoda, since Luke didn't need another teacher. And if Darth Vader (who was a minor flunky in the first movie) had died in the Death Star trench, they'd need another antagonist. So maybe Lucas would have gone with Luke finding out Obi-Wan killed his father at the end of _Empire_ and parting ways with him?
The writers of _Lost_ had an interesting take, in having Hugo (Hurley) say Luke and Vader should have communicated instead of just fighting. (That didn't really work with the Smoke Monster.) Perhaps communicating with your fear was the meaning of the tree sequence? However, Yoda's and Obi-Wan's plan was for Luke to come out of nowhere and defeat Vader and the Emperor before they knew what hit them. Of course giving him the name Skywalker, after his father, was kind of dumb.
So far no one has given a well-received idea on how _Empire_ could have been better than it was. The notion that they turned everything upside-down, with Luke literally being upside-down on three planets, and the big battle coming at the beginning rather than the end, seems to be the best description of _Empire_ and a reason for it's success as a unique entity, rather than a repeat of the first movie, which is what most people expected.
Although I read today that put together with _Return of the Jedi_ the two movies together kind of repeat the first movie: on the run from the Empire, meeting a Jedi mentor, rescue of a character, death of the mentor, culminating in the attack on the Death Star.
...thanks
Id like to chime in... true, the OT wasn't planned from the beginning... but they DID plan it. They never got around to planning the weaquel trilogy
I'd like to chime in that there was a plan for the sequels... to just copy the OT, but then O'l ruin derailed that.
Now i want to see you review Batman v Superman
Across the Spider-verse drank tf out of the Empire elixir can't believe u didn't mention it.
omg i havent seen it yet!!!! haha that’s great tho thanks for reporting this sighting from the wild!
Davy Jone's *locker*
Godzilla did the Empire thing before Empire
Empire was the best of all the Star Wars movies precisely because Lucas was too preoccupied with merchandise deals to participate.
Yes, I said it--the movie with the least Lucas content was the best because his tastes are horrible. Marcia Lucas & Gary Kurtz had to rewrite the script for "Star Wars" just so it would make sense, "Jedi" was a feature-length toy commercial (which forced Kurtz to quit because he couldn't believe George really wanted to bring back the Death Star), and the prequels...sigh. Jar-Jar, romantic sand, and--do I really need to go on?
Dude, the “Star Wars was saved in the Edit” narrative has been debunked 100 times over. It’s a nonsensical argument at its core. Every movie ever made has been “saved in the edit.” The video that popularized this narrative uses lots of false information and personal opinion. Watch “How Star Wars was Saved in the Edit was Saved in the Edit.” It thoroughly breaks down the arguments the original video makes and proves that the whole claim is a lie.
Lucas was heavily involved with Empire, he actually was appalled at how bad the first rough cut (which he was less involved with) was that he had to do tons of reshoots to make it work.
And do think that if the first movie needed lots of editing that Lucas just let his wife and other editors completely change his movie? It really doesn’t make sense when you think about it. The movie went through several cuts to make it work. All of which were done with Lucas’ involvement and support.
There were more important disagreements between Lucas and Kurtz than Death Star 2. If I’m not mistaken, Kurtz wanted Luke to become Vader at the end. If that’s the case, I’m glad he left, because that would have been stupid.
And if you don’t like the prequels that’s totally cool. But they are objectively good films. Yes, they have flaws, but Jar Jar, the romance, the dialogue, and most of the other generic RLM arguments that people repeat on the internet aren’t really problems.
I probably won’t be able to convince you on the prequels, since it really comes down to personal preference, but I highly recommend looking into that video I mentioned, because it exposes the “saved in the edit” narrative as bs.
I made it until rise of Skywalker being somehow good or so.
tough, but fair
giving this a shot with an open mind, but im skeptic you can actually pull it off
ah, you threw current political take in at the 6 min mark - you should avoid doing such things - you just revealed yourself in numerous ways, and put yourself in a negative light for a "joke" that was done in extremely poor taste.
your sense of humor needs some work, lots of "jokes" done in poor taste
im about halfway through your video essay and im still waiting for you to get to the point of your video instead of just setting it up - an essay has 3 parts, 1, tell the audience what youre going to say (which you didnt really do that well) 2 tell the audience what you want/need to (which you really just kept setting it up without doing it) 3 tell the audience what you told them.
as you continue - at about the 18 min mark - you went off track and basically changed your subject of your essay to "retroactive retcons from sequels are bad" (which i agree with you if they arent thought out enough) not just what Empire did and set up - which means you needed to revise your script and tighten it up several times. now if you simply went through and made a list of each movies retcons as an example to directly compare the movies and tv shows on the constant retcons you could have quickly come back to your main subject, but you didnt.
i dont think that Empire is responsible for the lack of writing talent we have had for the past near 20 years, if Empire did it well (like you admitted) then its not responsible for bad writing and ideas making their way into future works - if anything, its episode 1 and the prequels on a fundamental level. which that argument undermines your essay's premise.
yes, the sequel trilogy is nothing but garbage, but look who worked on it - everyone who knew anything about those peoples careers knew what was coming as soon as JJ abrams was announced to direct.
the ending in Empire is written to be what it is, the end of the second act of a 3 part story - which means that the heroes are at their lowest point in the story. and thats exactly what is delivered. you just went to "its a cliffhanger ending" without you taking the larger story into account.
modern star trek's issue is that a lot of directors and writers brought in to work on the franchise only know of wrath of khan and thus only work on trying to remake the wrath of khan - its been done like 6 times in the past 20 years. its annoying and real fans realize it and are bored of it.
as far as how most stories are the same - remember there are really only about 6 stories that can be told, or have you not ever heard of that before? that doesnt make them an Empire ripoff - youre not looking at literature enough - youre hyper focused for the sake of your essay instead of going back to the actual root of the issue. ooo, see Empire isnt exactly unique either, and wasnt at the time of its release either - it takes a lot of from greek myths and other cultural myths and stories and kind of conglomerate them all together.
its about the writers and where they want to take the stories - the problem we have is that modern 'talent' is not real talent - which evidence is everywhere for that.
this is a mediocre essay that wasnt developed enough and was considered finished and thus published before it was ready
sorry man, 4/10
Brutal but ultimately good constructive criticism. Thank you for watching and subsequently ripping me a new one, I appreciate the effort no matter the response. Ouch and thanks!
"and put yourself in a negative light for a "joke" that was done in extremely poor taste. "
Plenty of UA-camrs make political jokes, Critical Drinker has made an entire career out of it. Having political opinions isn't in poor taste at all, and while reflecting on our country's insidious and racist history visa vie "Birth of a Nation", it isn't some huge leap to say that we still are experiencing these things today. You can disagree all you want but it only "paints me in a negative light" if you are offended by my political leanings.
"the ending in Empire is written to be what it is, the end of the second act of a 3 part story - which means that the heroes are at their lowest point in the story. and thats exactly what is delivered. you just went to "its a cliffhanger ending" without you taking the larger story into account. " - This is also wrong. I even included a direct clip of the producer of STAR WARS literally saying that he was unsure if the film would go on to spawn 1 or "maybe more" sequels. I mean in Empire itself you can see that they were unaware of the Luke and Leia twin reveal by having them kiss on Hoth. These movies were not planned out to the degree that you're trying to give them.
"as you continue - at about the 18 min mark - you went off track and basically changed your subject of your essay to "retroactive retcons from sequels are bad""
No, I didn't. I directly addressed that Empire's massive retcon was the first major one in STAR WARS, and it started a chain of retcons that are traceable, obvious, and that I provided mountains of evidence for. Those retcons absolutely began with the Vader reveal. The essay isn't simply about Empire as a film, it is about the bad precedents set up and reaffirmed by the film. Part of that thesis is showing the damage caused by Empire's retcons, so that section is not "off track" it is quite literally one-third of the reason that Empire had a negative effect on the films after it. I previewed this in the intro, wrapped it up in the conclusion, and provided plenty of evidence so maybe you just weren't watching clearly enough.
"modern star trek's issue is that a lot of directors and writers brought in to work on the franchise only know of wrath of khan and thus only work on trying to remake the wrath of khan - its been done like 6 times in the past 20 years. its annoying and real fans realize it and are bored of it. " I mean this is also wrong. They literally just aped Wrath of Kahn in season 3 of Star Trek (which I specifically addressed in this video) and the fanbase reacted extremely positively to it, even the part of the fanbase that hates everything Kurtzman related. So, you're not factually on here.
"yes, the sequel trilogy is nothing but garbage, but look who worked on it - everyone who knew anything about those peoples careers knew what was coming as soon as JJ abrams was announced to direct. " More assumptions and factual inaccuracies my friend. People were insanely excited about The Force Awakens, the "real fans" thought it was going to redeem the prequel trilogy and the hype was near-universal for the film. The people who expected to hate TFA were absolutely a very small minority; in fact most of the critics online and in print who loved TFA went on to hating and bashing the rest of the Disney trilogy.
Seems like you were half paying attention watching this video. I appreciate the feedback but you seemed unable to retain or focus on this essay after the supposed slight against Donald Trump. I suggest maybe relaxing your own head cannon while experiencing UA-cam videos, if you're expecting a college-level essay on a Star Wars shit take maybe you ought to take up a different hobby than scrutinizing youtube critiques. Your response was mediocre, not developed enough and was considered finished and then published too early. Try again, 5/10 at best
@@movieblues420 sorry you cant take constructive criticism and took offense instead of taking the advice
youd think someone just starting out would listen in order to improve so they can get more subs and thus start making an impact while growing their audience
all i was doing was trying to help you
rethink your response and dont take offense from objective constructive criticism
Totally agreed. I am tired of politics being forced in my face every day by these MSNBC "kool-aide" drinkers. When this happens, I "cancel" and go to another place for information or entertainment.
@@movieblues420 when the drinker or razorfist, or others, at least they are on the right side politically, socially, morally, ethically, and understand how backing the left is akin to backing the worst of humanity
One of the most blatant and idiotic retcons of all time has to be Darkman 2: The Return of Durant.
He clearly exploded in the last film, but in the second film he is in a "coma".
Storytelling so lazy and contrived it is almost inspired.
If you want to really go back look no further than the old universal monster movies. Fritz illegibly becomes Igor to most of the public’s imagination. The way I make sense of it is Igor is a lair that got hung. Retcons are nothing new to the 1980s. I’d prefer retcons from one person than a committee of people not paying attention to past lore at all.
He didn’t die alone. His son was by his side. 😏
LOL you right, you right. At least he had Rey there to scream for him lol
Bothans retrieved the plans for the 2nd Death Star not the 1st one from eps4
Yes, I think too that the first movie, Star Wars - I have never really thought of it by the name A New Hope - is the best. The second isn't bad, but it has some problems, the whole universe starting to feel rather more restricted, smaller, being one, in the first one the galaxy almost felt like something as big as a galaxy, and the third - a great beginning, some very good scenes, but too many bad ones, and why the hell had they have to bring another Death Star into the story, couldn't they have had some new ideas...
Of course nowhere near as bad as that whole damn planet in the first Disney movie.
And I hate Prometheus and the reason is mostly due to every single character being a bloody idiot. Now if they had acted sensibly, with mere common sense, and gotten into deep shit anyway due to not knowing anything about what they are dealing with, and maybe going from what they wanted to believe or what their hypothesis was for far too long, it would possibly have been great.
Or if the movie had started with the premise that the early version of cold sleep or stasis or whatever it was called was actually damaging the brains of the people, and perhaps David 8 knew that, or it was happening specifically with that crew because he had caused it, and at some point the main character realizes that or at least starts to suspect it... that might have worked.
But they were so goddamn STUPID! All of them! And there was no explanation as to why they were.
Placard season 3 was amazing.
amazingly awful
I'm totally on board with commending Prometheus for going in its own direction, but, man, I hated the execution of that movie. And I was so excited for it. Still, I was hopeful for where it would go after that. Then we got Alien: Covenant.
I enjoyed the video, by the way.
Thanks for enjoying the video and for the comment. I really hate what COVENANT did to the story threads of Prometheus. It just felt like the world wanted to bash Prometheus and Ridley just kind of laid into it. Sad, because we could've had a truly unique set of films instead of one really ambitious movie and an Alien knockoff that undid the entire first film's premise.
@@movieblues420 I can totally get behind that. Like I said, I ultimately didn't like Prometheus (despite it being one of the most visually arresting movies of all time IMO), but I wanted to see where it would go from there with the ideas they planted. But, like you just said, Covenant came along and took care of that.
@@Off-Brand_Devin I ultimately fell in love with Prometheus but I'll be the first to admit that the original trailer for the film got me excited in a way I had never been for a movie before in my entire life, and they absolutely did not make a movie better than that initial trailer. Honestly, probably my favorite movie trailer ever made
@moviebluespodcast5186 PROMETHEUS' failure is because it's two scripts merged together by a director who emphatically *IS NOT A WRITER.* That's why you can see the seams in the plots and why the movie doesn't work all that well. That said, I'm convinced that Fox tampered with the sequel series because Ridley is also *NOT AN IDIOT* and would have known damn well from audience response that we wanted more Engineer mythology and not more of "The Beast" (as he puts it).
I have _The Making of Alien: Covenant_ book and it's essentially a glorified press kit, with very little of value to add. To me, Fox demanded another Alien movie and Scott had to do what his corporate masters told him to do. I like PROMETHEUS, but I can see that there was more that could have been and was cut out or not filmed and it pisses me off. And I'm also convinced that Noomi didn't want to come back and that's why the storyline was changed as much as it was.
That said, David bombing Paradise is my favorite scene of COVENANT and it almost works as it's own little short film.,
I don't understand why people love the second Captain America film so much, I bored to tears through most of it. I think I just don't really care for the cold war and espionage-type dramas. The whole movie was just about secret governments and agents and such and, well, that's a big yawn for me. The Captain America centered around a heavy sci-fi/fantasy element with the tesseract and Nazi supernaturalism. The third one pitted a bunch of super heroes against each other.
it was no Thor Love and Thunder that’s for sure
The deepest layer of reality
lol i dont know what this is in reference to but i like it
As I’ve gotten older, the empire strikes back has severely fallen down in my ranking as it’s a movie that doesn’t feel like a satisfying or complete story and honestly feels more like a waste of time.
I feel nothing at the end and I’m just wondering what all of this was for
As a cultural movement it’s great and a nice part of history but man A new hope is leagues better than it.
It's not a cliche the first time around.
The godfather 2 greatest sequel
Tbh, I can't even think of many if any trilogies (with a continuous story), before Star Wars!?!
Lord Of the Rings
@@sabrewolf4129, before.
The damage awakens time stamp is just shitting on movies for having a part 2.
lol is it though? it's shitting on movies that used Empire's blueprint for sequels but doing a bad job at the imitation. I mean there's even a section in this video breaking down movies that had part 2's that actually took risks or were interesting.
@@movieblues420 but you use Harry Potter, imo it’s not a bad movie series, it was meant to get darker and scarier as it progressed. Then you use captain america as an example of it being done well. Almost every marvel movie is an example of it being done well. Kinda feels like it’s picking and choosing. Tho I agree the sequels are terrible.
15 minutes in -> Lucas didn't have a plan, Abrams didn't have a plan -> The point is Lucas and co. made it work. The fact that they brought things together well enough to convince a contingent of fans that he had a plan all along is proof of this. Think I'm out on this video
i literally say in the video 2 seconds later that it worked for Lucas because he’s clearly a better artist than Jar Jar Abrams
@@movieblues420 I see that's true - in which case you can take or leave this observation into the future: the mocking tone you used prior to your point being made was enough of a turn off for me to give up on your video.
Franchise plans are overrated unless you're adapting from source material like Lord of the Rings. Darth Vader was a breakout star of ANH so he was elevated from henchman to big bad. Harrison Ford and Carrie Fisher had great chemistry so a love story was introduced. The sequel trilogy didn't need a plan so much as a consistent vision that didn't begin with a weak as hell reboot of ANH. It was unfortunate that Luke and Leia were made siblings because its A) silly and B) took away a possible love triangle arc that the Emperor could have used to lure Luke to the dark side in lieu of simply "pissing him off"
great response!
Slam Trump as a Racist for no reason. Great. So original I have never heard that one before🙄
Thanks for watching!
Does Lando have dreadlocks in that thumbnail?
i believe it's called a jheri curl
@@movieblues420 He didn't have jheri curls in the movies. As a matter of fact, I don't think Billy Dee Williams ever had jheri curls!😀
The Star Wars Holiday Special is the worst thing I ever saw.
Ahah, why The Amazing Spider-Man 2 was in the list of good sequels? XDDDD
I mean, that movie was shitty in every aspect, and it bombed, and it leave another Spider-Man movie series w/o a proper continuation, just like the shitty Raimy's Spider-Man 3 did. So, I guess I can agree on the whole "best sequels has greetier tone, higher stakes, etc." but not on "every sequel that has greetier tone, higher stakes, etc. is a great sequel".
Prometheus sucked.
aren't the Dans dreamy
LOL ❤🎉
I hate to say it, but I'm only one-third of the way through this vid, and its been completely wrong through and through, even down to the old "Trump is RAY-cist!!!" trope that the Democrats/media pushed repeatedly for the last 7 years, despite oogling over Trump when he was a Democrat donor. Back to the vid: The makers of Empire took an entire galaxy that had a grand total of 3 hours of canon to build a world of characters around, and they did this better than almost anyone. Lots of big decisions had to be made early, and the production problems for Hoth and Degobah dragged on for months. The fact that Lucas pit together ANOTHER team to give us something rare--a well thought out sequel better than the original. GF2, Rocky 2, and ESB forced Hollywood to start taking their time and putting some thought into sequels and franchises--not the swill that we'd seen time and again during that era.
Just look at the first blood franchise.. the first movie was about PTSD and a totally different animal than the rest of the generic blood porn we now know.
Money over art has been the virus in the system for the last 40 years and the reason why 90% of the products are so bad today.
Totally agreed. If they never made a single other RAMBO film, First Blood would be considered a much more respectable film in every way.