Had to stop after 45 minutes to get some fresh air and perspective. Freedom isn't free, and those who live in democratic societies should be thankful for what we have and who sacrificed so that we may have it. Thank you, Jocko.
When I was in high school, we had to make a presentation on ww2. There was a Chinese girl in my class and she wrote a presentation on the massacre. Took her about 10 minutes to fully get through it. When she raised her head she was crying. So was half the class including the teacher. We had no idea she had relatives who were some of the victims. And closing her speech she said “If we do not learn from our mistakes, we are doomed to repeat them. Please never forget what they did to my family, because I never will.”
How sad is it that not only was this one of the most horrific events in human history but the woman who exposed it to the world ended up taking her own life. This is how destructive we can be.
Dark times indeed, my grandmother was 8 and her brother 5 during the Japanese invasion and they hid atop a very bushy tree while witnessing their parents sliced apart. And she miraculously escaped and survived to raise 5 children
this podcast provides such a heavy dose of reality and I believe one of the most important podcasts out there. It is so important people understand the darkness out there and the darkness inside themselves.
My father gave me this book to read when I was 14. Whether or not that was a good decision I still wonder. But it made me realize the severity of war at the very early age.
I don't know about it being a good idea but it probably helped you understand that sometimes you just have to deal with some shit and rarely will you be ready for it.
As a grandson of a Chinese veteran who fought both during WW2 and the Civil War, I sometimes feel a burning anger and resentment toward Japan for what was allowed to occur in Nanjing. However, I know that the more mature approach is to forget, forgive and ensure that evils like this don't reoccur
I don't think you should forget OR forgive. But you shouldn't tarnish the new generations of japaneese with the same brush as you would their grandparents. It was not their acts or their fault. But the grandparents can really rot in hell for what they did.
You weren't the one who suffered, and being a part of the genetic lineage of those who suffered does not give you more victim points. To be angry is fine, to demand reparations like Iris is despicable.
When I was younger I was ignorant to this sort of stuff. I hung out with a friend who had a Chinese foreign exchange student staying there. She was very nice and communicated very well. When we talked about the world and whatnot (what little I knew of it) she wasn't very clear but made it known that she doesn't like Japan very much. I never asked because of the way she said it, I didn't want to be rude. As I got older and more informed of world history, it started to make sense why there would be lots of resentment for the Japanese now. That being said, their society functions in a totally different way now and they deserve to be forgiven, I believe.
I certainly don't and I'm aware of my rights. I live in Australia, which was also subject to attacks by Japan. However, I've visited Japan several times and think highly of the people. I can understand my Grandfather's feelings of ill will however, and when I think through his perspective, I can get angry at times.
It was reparations for people who were still alive and who suffered through the war. It was not for Iris. Dumb ass. We paid reparations of internment of the Japanese. The Japanese can provide comfort for the comfort women who are still alive.
Always come back to these interviews and the unit 731 one whenever I start complaining about my first work problems. I’ll just go study for my exams now in gratitude......
Really having a hard time listening to this one. I keep telling myself, "Man, these people lived and died through this. the absolute least you can do is hear their stories." This is how we honor them.
This was a rough one!! I was covering my face at times. I have to say, what a way to honor Iris Chang and her great sacrifice, by telling the story. Great combining both books. I feel like you can't read one with out the other. Iris Chang paid a great price to bring the victims a voice. I could see and hear your respect for her as a warrior in her own way. Awesome job shedding light on the darkness and paying tribute to the one who had a warriors heart to write The Rape of Nanking.
here in 2022. started listening to jocko about a year ago. only recent episodes. decided to go back to episode 1 and listen to basically a podcast a day while I workout, do household chores, drive, etc. this was a rough one. just had a son and its impossible not to think of him, my wife, my mother when listening to these stories.
Same time Wizard of Oz came out during the Golden Age of Hollywood and all the nations who took part were "civilized", this surely must be one of the most evil occurrences out of the entire history of mankind. With as "civilized" as people are now, history has shown it can go that way easily again, we have to keep ourselves in check and think outside our perceptions of things and that it'll never feel as apparent at the time it happens, people just want to justify it and pretend like it's not there. An extreme push of resistance that met condemnation for generations until one generation found themselves finally disgusted with it.
I'm sorry to say this, but I feel it to be true: The Japanese of that era were worse than the terrorists today. That Japan ignores this part of its past is truly disgusting.
They don't ignore it. They don't broadcast it but watching this and previously the Unit 731 episode I've gained an entirely new appreciation/understanding of certain anime/mangas. Watch Fullmetal Alchemist after listening to this, there are scenes in that which must be incredibly uncomfortable for the Japanese people to watch. (It blends elements of the Nazis and imperialist Japan into a fictional people named Amestrians. There is a scene in that series that pretty much captures the description of the early city occupations in this book. And some of the 'research' the alchemists are doing echos the actions of Unit 731.)
AngryOscillator Yes. People cope with it through art. But the problem is that the government doesn't acknowledge their atrocities. And in the end the government (if it's democratic like it is in Japan) is a reflection and representation of its people. Japan is a country that doesn't apologise. And worse, doesn't even _see_ their own flaws.
@@IzachBao their government still doesn't acknowledge the atrocities they've committed. The people are fine but they didn't even teach that they invaded China until very recently. To acknowledge these war crimes is political suicide in Japan, don't put them on a pedestal just cause you like what they make. They have denied their history in shame for almost 100 years
The military and radical culture Japan had in those days was damn near impossible to achieve and even harder to break. If the nuclear weapons hadn't been dropped it would have been ... Undescribable.
More light from this darkness: "Unable to work to support his family and with the savings spent the family survived in a one-room apartment by selling his Chinese art collection, but this did not provide enough to avoid malnutrition. [Rabe] was formally declared "de-Nazified" by the British in June 3, 1946 but thereafter continued to live in poverty. The family lived on wild seeds that the children would eat with soup, and on dry bread until that was no longer available either In 1948, the citizens of Nanking learned of the very dire situation of the Rabe family in occupied Germany and they quickly raised a very large sum of money, equivalent to $2000 ($20,000 in 2017). The city mayor himself went to Germany, via Switzerland where he bought a large amount of food for the Rabe family. From mid 1948 until the communist takeover the people of Nanking also sent a food package each month, for which Rabe in many letters expressed deep gratitude."
These Podcasts are vital. As a new father, they are undoubtedly difficult to listen too. But we can not forget these lessons, so as to remind ourselves how fortunate we are today. Keep them going.
I want to hug one of the toughest guys Ive ever had the pleasure of gaining knowledge from. This tough rugged beast of a man is doing everything he can to keep going and with every little break to take a breath I'm just like it's alright bro take your time
I've listened to all the Jocko podcasts but a handful and this is one is my favorite by far. Keep it up Jocko, good decision to go ahead with this episode, and as always: GOOD EVENING
This one is important, but as I'm learning about events like Ordinary Men, the Soviet Union, and Unit 731, I'm beginning to see a powerful life lesson necessary to avoid repeating such abhorrences -a power lesson that was never even close to being taught in my history classes in the USA graduating high school 2012.
Don’t commit suicide. Life surprises everyone, and when you’re depressed you gotta remember how the wheel of fortune is absolutely bound to turn. Bless you!
Such a good reader. Proper emotion and emphasis. I know the dudes got a busy schedule but still hoping jocko starts reading books like this for audible
Do not avert your eyes and ears from the darkness. We know it is difficult to perceive the depths to which human malice can sink...most of us could not dream of such nefarious actions, especially against children. Listen. See. Learn, so that you can better understand that darkness. Hold the line. Be steadfast. Maintain your discipline. Be humble. Respect others, and respect yourself enough to not become such a heinous, vile creature. Train. Train. Train. Prepare for the darkness. When and if the day comes where you cross paths with such evil, do everything you can, summon every ounce of strength and tenacity and violence of action...in order to utterly destroy it. *Ne Desit Virtus*. "Let valor not fail."
What I really like about Jocko is that dude is total warrior. But he understands the horror of war and human capability of evil. He’s like a total giant that melts at the sight of a little girl giving him a rose.
Probably one of his best podcasts yet. Very very hard beginning, I actually had to stop at one point but then came back the next day. But, the last hour and a half make it all worth it definitely buying "the woman who could not forget". Thanks Jocko.
Perhaps I had a similar reaction but instead of wanting to stop I became absolutely furious during the first part and had fantasies of bayoneting those savages. During the second part, I broke down in tears when Jocko read Iris's suicide letter.
Look at Jocko's reaction at 50:31, after reading about how forced incessant rape was coerced among families of multiple generations for sick entertainment and twisted sexual pleasure he needs to take a break and can't seem to fathom how truly sick radical evil can be. I mean, Jocko's specialty is war. He is a guy who has seen the worst of humanity with his eyes, fellow brothers in arms shot dead, conducted raids at night and yet even these acts of radical evil was shocking to him. Thought that was a really powerful moment. Let that sink in...
I watched this one and the unit 731. This one is literally the worst thing I have ever heard of in my entire life. It’s literally hard to get through, I have to pause. I’ve even cried and had to take a break. It’s important to hear
Wow - just wow. Dropped on my phone like a bomb. Great storytelling, great story - both about Nanking and Iris. Sad how it ended for her. Heavy stuff. Well done.
For those who are interested, there were many Imperial Japanese troops who refused to act in such a barbaric manner. In fact, many of them defected to the Chinese side. My Grandfather told me that the defectors felt guilty for the way that Japan had treated its Asian brothers and didn't want to fight for the Imperial cause anymore.
tylowylo12321 if you learn about the darkness you will see the light all around you. We are lucky to live in the times and societies we live in, that is what these podcasts have reinforced in me.
Jocko first of all thank you for providing the podcast I love the ones that contain historical events and sorry for my terrible grammar just be glad I put a period at the end of this, haha -greatings from Santa Rosa
Sorry. I couldn't listen to the rest of the podcast. I stopped at 16:43. When I heard the population of the entire city reduced from 340000 to 500. I couldn't go on anymore.
This was such a difficult episode to get through. Props to Jocko for bringing this event/book into the light. Right now, I just can't find the words. On the subject mentioned at the end, I just wanted to say I agree but also wanted to voice the fact that when you are in that position, there is no anything. It feels empty, lonely, and hopeless. There is a tipping point where survival instincts kick in and you do anything and everything you can to find the light or in worst case scenario it doesn't kick in and the only light is the one that checks you out. My heart goes out to all that have ever found themselves in the situation, and I hope they can find that light worth living for. It still blows my mind that so many drugs prescribed for depression have those kids of side effects😢. Be the rainbow, be the light... you just never know who might be counting on you to be their light. 🌺🤙
It is very sad and tragic what happened to Iris Chang. The world lost a great person on November 9th 2004 and I believe it could have been prevented. Many times doctors will recommend many different antidepressants to a patient just trying to find one that works best for them. That is not good when the side-effects can be so severe with those medications.
I...I haven't had sleep for the past couple of days and i just listened to this whole thing. My day is not going to be great but this will help me in the future. Thank you for this. Being Japanese, I'm shocked at...well, everything. Damn.
@@mrpuncher100 No, I wouldn't know much of this because I had an American education. I was born and bred in America, I was only taught about wwii through western eyes.
@@CannibalLecter they don't teach what happened like the Germans do because its the same government now as it was 80 years ago. Your parents probably didn't mention it but mine definitely did even though I was raised in Canada. I'm sure a lot of Chinese born an raised in the states know this history too. Just some choose not to remember and pass it down.
@@mrpuncher100 mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmyeahno, the only part I'll disagree with you is that it's not the same government as it was 80 years ago. After 80 years some things are bound to change. I saw a video last year about the current Japanese government administration quietly admit to the war crimes of wwii but it was a small announcement. So far, my....like 5-6 chinese american friends I asked - after I saw this air - knew nothing about this. Like they knew about Japan invading mainland china during wwii but apart from the atrocities that occurred they were like, "nah not really dude. I never asked my parents about it."
@@CannibalLecter thats fair, I guess I just assumed most people knew about it but guess thats not the case. And you're right, things do change over time but they continued to support politicians who were known class A war criminals and one even managed to get elected prime Minister. The nazis never took power again in Germany after ww2.
This is a very Raw episode. It's easy so easy to see these foreign peoples as terrible and savage people, and I don't have time to say it's not just them but anyone who embraces what they did, just listen to previous podcast that talk about atrocities that we and many other nations have committed. The key is to understand that this stuff can happen and can happen to anyone anywhere. It is our job not to embrace the carnal disgustingness that can come during these times. The people that committed those crimes are not the same as the Japanese people today as I am not the same as the Americans that have slain women and children in Vietnam. Take this knowledge of evil with you and stop it when you see it. It was a tough read the first time I studied the Rape of Nanking. It is not for everyone, but everyone should be aware that this is what happens when you see others as below you.
Love you dudes praise God for the truth you seek to make known in the world regardless of how harsh and unfathomable it may be. Your podcasts have had a profound impact in many areas of my life for the better and the betterment of those around me. Thanks for all you’ve done and continue to do
1:08:17 Never thought anything could justify the atom bombs...until now. It's making me sick to think this way, but it's true. It was justified...because it ended Nanking's terror.
Well not really. Can't speak to the state of nanking by the time the bomb was dropped but this happen in '37 and the bomb was dropped in '45. Its justified because this is the type of people that served the Japanese imperial army and they deserved everything they got.
The Atom Bombs dropped on Japan lands was partially right to do but in all honesty all Heads of States during that time were working with Globalists to intentionally cause WW2 and caused all these atrocities to happen because these staged theater of wars were done to sacrifice human lifeforce to feed bad aliens and demons who controlled the Globalists humans. These human sacrifices have been ongoing for eons cause Earth was a prison planet and was finally all stopped during the past 3 years when good forces finally killed all the bad aliens, demons, and 99% of human Globalist leaders.
They practically killed her....they intended well, but horrible treatments. Bad psychotherapy too. Specific therapies are good for PTSD. And, no faith as a treatment....all meds, etc. God bless her.
Me too. I've grown tired on the whining political "news" so I've been listening to quality podcasts that improve my mind and reading quality nonfiction books. Jocko's podcasts are lengthy, but are full of great interviews and reviews of quality books. Time well spent. My only regret is that I didn't start doing this 20 years ago.
A very interesting one I listened to recently was Yeon-me Park (I think that's her name, I'm on mobile so cannot double-check right now) who recently appeared on Joe Rogan's podcast. I know what people say about Mr Rogan, but this woman escaped North Korea only because she was sold into slavery in China. Her story is utterly horrific, sickening, and terrifying - not just of the genocide unfolding in North Korea but also what she endured during her escape, and how this is happening to many thousands (even millions) of people right now. Please listen if you get the chance, it's free on Spotify and is extremely eye-opening.
Both stories are very sad. The 1st I knew but it's still incomprehensible the 2nd I also knew although I didn't know Iris. A person closer to me than myself went through a similar journey.
There’s this book I’ve read about a priest who failed an exorcism amidst the chaos in Nanking. There was this search for a murderer who not only killed but ate his victims too, only to find out that he was possessed. They found him in an isolated barn where a fire has started and the priest was not able to save him (literally and spiritually) but while he was asking him what’s his name (the devil’s name) he said “Cain’s Father” which is known as the cosmic lord of LIES and DEATH. 4 days later the rape of Nanking happened and the city was slaughtered. The Japanese had LIED that if the people surrender they will be treated well instead DEATH has enveloped it and probably why some “special” viciousness has reigned over those lands.
I read all the Crossed comics by Garth Ennis some time ago and thought nothing in real life could ever come close to its depravity. Today, my eyes are opened.
This reminds me of Anthony bourdains. Successful people caught up in their own triumphs..jocko talks about the dark but sometimes too much “light’ is as blinding as the darkness...Took me a while to finish this one...war lets humans know we’re not that far from wild animals even after all our advancement in technology and science.
Thank you all who stand up for freedom and against evil. With out knowledge of history, I’ve heard we are doomed to repeat it. So, yes, teach it, let it be known what happened.
Michael Kofman, I agree completely. It seems to me that some people only focus on those 2 incidents. And while they were catastrophic, some seem to forget that they instigated with us with an all out terrorist attack. If we would not have retaliated, they would have kept coming. That Japanese time frame is one where their "god like" emperor was only concerned with conquering, not matter the cost of life, their own soldiers as well as the people they were attempting to conquer.
Indeed. Also, modern revisionists love to discuss Hiroshima and Nagasaki completely void of context. The most recent episode of Dan Carlin's Hardcore History podcast does a great job highlighting the gravity with which the decision to drop the bombs was made and places the events in context.
Michael Kofman, I will have to take some time and watch that. It's kind of sad that this same type of thinking is happening again today. People want to believe that America is just this big bully that likes to throw it's weight and power around. And all the while, they never put the events that caused such a stand. It makes me sick to think that some people believe that the u.s is attacking isis and isil and other groups , out of systematic racism by an entire government, and that it is unjust and unfair. While again leaving out the mitigating factors that the groups are committing acts of heinous mis treatment and legitimate terror to the individuals who disagree with their agenda. People scream that they want piece and that is simply not the case. They want complete submission of not some people, but all of them. And that is exactly what the empire of Japanese were after at this time in history, and FDR realized this and did what he had to do, bot simply for Americans, but for all the people this mindset placed in harms way. Sometimes excessive force is the necessary answer. Not all the time, hell not even most, but when it gets past the point of intelligent reasoning, force is the way to prove the point. My daughters are huge how to train your dragon fans, and watching it with them I heard a character state this piece of philosophy "a person who kills without reason can not be reasoned with." And I completely agree. It's such a profound truth and it amazed me to hear it in a kids movie. No matter the setting the quote was spoken, it is a point that is 100% true.
Michael Kofman also we the US at the time can push around the emperor thats why he kept him in power because he was willing to work with us if he wasn't we would've killed him and everyone would know about this disaster that happen so because he was Pro American after the war Japan was kinda left to be the victim. And they killed more people in Nanking than both bombs did.
I think anyone should feel bad about more death. Yes, the historical context of the time wouldn’t have allowed for other options, but that doesn’t mean that burning the skin of thousands of civilians isn’t a tragedy in itself.
I grew up hearing about this as a kid, and I'm 63 now. This was not a secret, first books on it came out 1n 1937!!! Too bad the author had such depression, before her suicide, she was working on a detailed book on the Bataan Death March.
The atrocities mentioned here are nearly at the level of those attributed to unit 731 - the main difference being that what was done in Nanking was done on a massive scale.
When evil gets to the level of genocide and torture, The details are important. Not for novelty. But to destroy naiveness towards what humans are capable of when they heighten their ego and dehumanize other humans. The graphic details also matter because real human beings LIVED the things that are making your stomach turn. Their suffering is no longer isolated to a moment but it echoes in tragedy for humans to aim towards something greater. You hear these atrocities and think they are the actions of an ancient civilization with extreme pagan values yet we are just getting to the last of our elders who have died from this time period. Learning doesn’t change what happened but hopefully it changes you. May we not caught up in extreme Nationalism/Tribalism that leads to behaviors like this. America has its own brand that we actively live in so may we not fall to either side of the spectrum. Balance is found is submitting to Jesus Christ as your Lord & Savior from the excesses of your pride. He can forgive a man for committing an incredible evil like this and He was with every victim.
I found myself begging you to stop recounting the atrocities. I felt relief knowing that many of the women were killed after being brutally raped so as not to have to suffer the aftermath of such a thing. I felt incredibly lucky to have survived being raped and not killed, it gave a new meaning to being a "rape survivor". I have always thought that the bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki was pure evil and totally uncalled for. Yet this evil brought an end to this bottomless suffering to the people of Nanking. I felt glad that those bombs were dropped. Ultimately God keeps the score and all debts are paid. I'm glad I listened till the end because Jocko's words about finding balance between the good and evil and not getting diabolically disoriented aided in my healing. The Jocko podcast is always a roller coaster ride! You better hang on!
i dunno why, but this is really good fuel for work when i'm tired.. it gives kinda a sick/stimulating feeling, like if you put your hand in a bowl of eyeballs... wakes me up, makes my guts squirm etc.. good stuff :) i know its horrible too, but good "wakeup and work" stuff :) Also like.. whatever kind of bad day you're having, this stuff is way worse and makes you feel like you got no problems at all :)
Iris’s story just reenforces the fact that in the case of an acute mental episode, DO NOT immediately start taking psychiatric medications. You can make things chronic and more severe. Doctors in the country are over prescribing this stuff.
Depressing but deeply interesting book, for anyone interested in a documentary about similar events, look for "The Act Of Killing", beautiful yet simple documentary of a man facing his evil deeds during the communist genocide in Indonesia. Very moving for a mostly interview driven documentary.
I googled the title of the book and checked out the photos: big mistake! I am French and in school we watched hours of video form what happen in camp but we never talked about that part of history. I never heard about it before the podcast. Thanks for sharing that!
What Jocko starts talking about at 12:30 is a little off. When the Japanese went to war with America the reason they lost was not because it was robotic warriors vs free thinking warriors but because it was warriors vs industrialists. When warriors fight industrialists the latter wins. This is because industrialized societies have way more manpower, better technology and can produce supplies such as weapons, food, gear, medical equipment etc and transport them much faster.
this makes me realize how easy my life is my comparison. the hardest part of my day has been doing my dishes lol. and not a single Japanese soldier has stabbed me. i don't mean to make light of it but holy shit our lives are good by comparison! like holy the bad things that have happened to people on this planet are unreal.
Had to stop after 45 minutes to get some fresh air and perspective. Freedom isn't free, and those who live in democratic societies should be thankful for what we have and who sacrificed so that we may have it. Thank you, Jocko.
freedom aint not free
BLemb0t minute 41 for me...
45 for me....and i’ve been to war
True, gratitude puts our first world problems into perspective
I made it to 38 minutes. History is too easily forgotten, fucking hell. I can't believe nobody is taught of such things
When I was in high school, we had to make a presentation on ww2. There was a Chinese girl in my class and she wrote a presentation on the massacre. Took her about 10 minutes to fully get through it. When she raised her head she was crying. So was half the class including the teacher. We had no idea she had relatives who were some of the victims. And closing her speech she said “If we do not learn from our mistakes, we are doomed to repeat them. Please never forget what they did to my family, because I never will.”
And people keep talking about "oppression" all around through their iPhones.
Thanks to Echo and Jocko for the real deal.
Yeah cause only people who suffer like this are oppressed clown.
@@harr77 pussy
The scourge of modern society is that there are people who legitimately believe that they are oppressed while living in countries like the US.
shane gillis
How sad is it that not only was this one of the most horrific events in human history but the woman who exposed it to the world ended up taking her own life. This is how destructive we can be.
"Back to the book!"
Thank you for doing this, Jocko, I'm from China, I think this is a part of history everyone should know.
Cultural Revolution killed even more innocent people in China, which is also a part of history everyone should know.
That was heavy, Thank you Jocko & Echo for covering this important topic, it was the right choice.
Dark times indeed, my grandmother was 8 and her brother 5 during the Japanese invasion and they hid atop a very bushy tree while witnessing their parents sliced apart. And she miraculously escaped and survived to raise 5 children
Wow, God bless her and future generations.
❤
this podcast provides such a heavy dose of reality and I believe one of the most important podcasts out there. It is so important people understand the darkness out there and the darkness inside themselves.
My father gave me this book to read when I was 14. Whether or not that was a good decision I still wonder. But it made me realize the severity of war at the very early age.
wow
I think it's good but still kinda early though
I don't know about it being a good idea but it probably helped you understand that sometimes you just have to deal with some shit and rarely will you be ready for it.
Damn, that shit would’ve given me nightmares at that age
Words can't describe how much this story means. Thank you for presenting this, and thanks to Iris for all her hard work.
You two are brave souls. Peace-loving people all over the world appreciate your effort to make the world a better place.
I trust Jocko's judgement as to why this should be remembered. It's time to listen. Check.
✅
I’m 17, and I feel that things like this will make me grow into a good man
As a grandson of a Chinese veteran who fought both during WW2 and the Civil War, I sometimes feel a burning anger and resentment toward Japan for what was allowed to occur in Nanjing. However, I know that the more mature approach is to forget, forgive and ensure that evils like this don't reoccur
I don't think you should forget OR forgive. But you shouldn't tarnish the new generations of japaneese with the same brush as you would their grandparents. It was not their acts or their fault. But the grandparents can really rot in hell for what they did.
You weren't the one who suffered, and being a part of the genetic lineage of those who suffered does not give you more victim points. To be angry is fine, to demand reparations like Iris is despicable.
When I was younger I was ignorant to this sort of stuff. I hung out with a friend who had a Chinese foreign exchange student staying there. She was very nice and communicated very well. When we talked about the world and whatnot (what little I knew of it) she wasn't very clear but made it known that she doesn't like Japan very much. I never asked because of the way she said it, I didn't want to be rude. As I got older and more informed of world history, it started to make sense why there would be lots of resentment for the Japanese now. That being said, their society functions in a totally different way now and they deserve to be forgiven, I believe.
I certainly don't and I'm aware of my rights. I live in Australia, which was also subject to attacks by Japan. However, I've visited Japan several times and think highly of the people.
I can understand my Grandfather's feelings of ill will however, and when I think through his perspective, I can get angry at times.
It was reparations for people who were still alive and who suffered through the war. It was not for Iris. Dumb ass. We paid reparations of internment of the Japanese. The Japanese can provide comfort for the comfort women who are still alive.
Always come back to these interviews and the unit 731 one whenever I start complaining about my first work problems. I’ll just go study for my exams now in gratitude......
That's a good approach against our spoilt asses.
Really having a hard time listening to this one. I keep telling myself, "Man, these people lived and died through this. the absolute least you can do is hear their stories." This is how we honor them.
This was a rough one!! I was covering my face at times. I have to say, what a way to honor Iris Chang and her great sacrifice, by telling the story. Great combining both books. I feel like you can't read one with out the other. Iris Chang paid a great price to bring the victims a voice. I could see and hear your respect for her as a warrior in her own way. Awesome job shedding light on the darkness and paying tribute to the one who had a warriors heart to write The Rape of Nanking.
here in 2022. started listening to jocko about a year ago. only recent episodes. decided to go back to episode 1 and listen to basically a podcast a day while I workout, do household chores, drive, etc. this was a rough one. just had a son and its impossible not to think of him, my wife, my mother when listening to these stories.
It frightens me that this happened 84 years ago, all these stories sound like something that would go down in the Stone Age.
Same time Wizard of Oz came out during the Golden Age of Hollywood and all the nations who took part were "civilized", this surely must be one of the most evil occurrences out of the entire history of mankind. With as "civilized" as people are now, history has shown it can go that way easily again, we have to keep ourselves in check and think outside our perceptions of things and that it'll never feel as apparent at the time it happens, people just want to justify it and pretend like it's not there. An extreme push of resistance that met condemnation for generations until one generation found themselves finally disgusted with it.
Yes! Prayer, exercise, and this podcast is where I get recharged in my life rn. Love my neighbors too.
I'm sorry to say this, but I feel it to be true: The Japanese of that era were worse than the terrorists today.
That Japan ignores this part of its past is truly disgusting.
They don't ignore it. They don't broadcast it but watching this and previously the Unit 731 episode I've gained an entirely new appreciation/understanding of certain anime/mangas. Watch Fullmetal Alchemist after listening to this, there are scenes in that which must be incredibly uncomfortable for the Japanese people to watch. (It blends elements of the Nazis and imperialist Japan into a fictional people named Amestrians. There is a scene in that series that pretty much captures the description of the early city occupations in this book. And some of the 'research' the alchemists are doing echos the actions of Unit 731.)
AngryOscillator
Yes.
People cope with it through art.
But the problem is that the government doesn't acknowledge their atrocities.
And in the end the government (if it's democratic like it is in Japan) is a reflection and representation of its people.
Japan is a country that doesn't apologise. And worse, doesn't even _see_ their own flaws.
They don't ignore it you can't blame present Japan for Past Japan
@@IzachBao their government still doesn't acknowledge the atrocities they've committed. The people are fine but they didn't even teach that they invaded China until very recently. To acknowledge these war crimes is political suicide in Japan, don't put them on a pedestal just cause you like what they make. They have denied their history in shame for almost 100 years
The military and radical culture Japan had in those days was damn near impossible to achieve and even harder to break. If the nuclear weapons hadn't been dropped it would have been ... Undescribable.
Usually the good shows come sunday, it's nice to have something in the middle of the week as well.
More light from this darkness:
"Unable to work to support his family and with the savings spent the family survived in a one-room apartment by selling his Chinese art collection, but this did not provide enough to avoid malnutrition. [Rabe] was formally declared "de-Nazified" by the British in June 3, 1946 but thereafter continued to live in poverty. The family lived on wild seeds that the children would eat with soup, and on dry bread until that was no longer available either
In 1948, the citizens of Nanking learned of the very dire situation of the Rabe family in occupied Germany and they quickly raised a very large sum of money, equivalent to $2000 ($20,000 in 2017). The city mayor himself went to Germany, via Switzerland where he bought a large amount of food for the Rabe family. From mid 1948 until the communist takeover the people of Nanking also sent a food package each month, for which Rabe in many letters expressed deep gratitude."
JCJ F thank you for that!
These Podcasts are vital. As a new father, they are undoubtedly difficult to listen too. But we can not forget these lessons, so as to remind ourselves how fortunate we are today. Keep them going.
I want to hug one of the toughest guys Ive ever had the pleasure of gaining knowledge from. This tough rugged beast of a man is doing everything he can to keep going and with every little break to take a breath I'm just like it's alright bro take your time
I've listened to all the Jocko podcasts but a handful and this is one is my favorite by far. Keep it up Jocko, good decision to go ahead with this episode, and as always: GOOD EVENING
This one is important, but as I'm learning about events like Ordinary Men, the Soviet Union, and Unit 731, I'm beginning to see a powerful life lesson necessary to avoid repeating such abhorrences -a power lesson that was never even close to being taught in my history classes in the USA graduating high school 2012.
This podcast made me understand more throughly my own suicidal thoughts. I needed this, its so easy to get lost in the darkness.
Don’t commit suicide. Life surprises everyone, and when you’re depressed you gotta remember how the wheel of fortune is absolutely bound to turn. Bless you!
I hope you’re doing well
Such a good reader. Proper emotion and emphasis. I know the dudes got a busy schedule but still hoping jocko starts reading books like this for audible
Iris Chang is a goddamn hero...
And of course the fucking psychiatric drugs fucked her up.
I don't know what's more disturbing. The book, or the ad every 5 minutes for 2 and a half hours.
Do not avert your eyes and ears from the darkness. We know it is difficult to perceive the depths to which human malice can sink...most of us could not dream of such nefarious actions, especially against children. Listen. See. Learn, so that you can better understand that darkness.
Hold the line. Be steadfast. Maintain your discipline. Be humble. Respect others, and respect yourself enough to not become such a heinous, vile creature.
Train.
Train.
Train.
Prepare for the darkness. When and if the day comes where you cross paths with such evil, do everything you can, summon every ounce of strength and tenacity and violence of action...in order to utterly destroy it.
*Ne Desit Virtus*. "Let valor not fail."
Semper Fidelis
Amen.
Onuma yes sir
Facta, non verba
What I really like about Jocko is that dude is total warrior. But he understands the horror of war and human capability of evil. He’s like a total giant that melts at the sight of a little girl giving him a rose.
He’s like an Iron Golem from Minecraft
Being a warrior is all about purpose being a barbarian is all about bloodshed he understands the difference
Probably one of his best podcasts yet. Very very hard beginning, I actually had to stop at one point but then came back the next day. But, the last hour and a half make it all worth it definitely buying "the woman who could not forget". Thanks Jocko.
Perhaps I had a similar reaction but instead of wanting to stop I became absolutely furious during the first part and had fantasies of bayoneting those savages. During the second part, I broke down in tears when Jocko read Iris's suicide letter.
I've heard horrific stories but this is way beyond...
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Look at Jocko's reaction at 50:31, after reading about how forced incessant rape was coerced among families of multiple generations for sick entertainment and twisted sexual pleasure he needs to take a break and can't seem to fathom how truly sick radical evil can be. I mean, Jocko's specialty is war. He is a guy who has seen the worst of humanity with his eyes, fellow brothers in arms shot dead, conducted raids at night and yet even these acts of radical evil was shocking to him. Thought that was a really powerful moment. Let that sink in...
Log Arithms except hr hasn't seen the worst. This books describes way worse things than he has seen. That's kinda why he had such a hard time.
I watched this one and the unit 731. This one is literally the worst thing I have ever heard of in my entire life. It’s literally hard to get through, I have to pause. I’ve even cried and had to take a break. It’s important to hear
What you described is simply loss of life and doing his job, not the worst of human brutality.
Many moments during listening to this i wanted to look towards the sky and scream and cry as loud and long as possible. Jesus Christ
Wow - just wow. Dropped on my phone like a bomb. Great storytelling, great story - both about Nanking and Iris. Sad how it ended for her. Heavy stuff. Well done.
For those who are interested, there were many Imperial Japanese troops who refused to act in such a barbaric manner. In fact, many of them defected to the Chinese side. My Grandfather told me that the defectors felt guilty for the way that Japan had treated its Asian brothers and didn't want to fight for the Imperial cause anymore.
My grandfather who served in the war on the Chinese side
they were brave considering their lives were on the line if they got caught.
Yes that is true
These discussions are needed, thx Jocko and Echo
This should have a hundred times as many views as it does. The world should know the consequences of unchecked power.
GOOD EVENING!!!!
Jock9, Echo, this was a heart-rending podcast. You guys are friggin awesome ❤
this guy is a mix of every disturbed song in human form.
5 mintutes in and Jocko is still warning me. Teach me the darkness, show me the light!
tylowylo12321 if you learn about the darkness you will see the light all around you. We are lucky to live in the times and societies we live in, that is what these podcasts have reinforced in me.
"if you learn about the darkness, you will see the light all around you." I love that!
I know its a bit late now but... you make it to the end?
@@bobkhan1809 Had to be Jung 😁
Jocko first of all thank you for providing the podcast I love the ones that contain historical events and sorry for my terrible grammar just be glad I put a period at the end of this, haha
-greatings from Santa Rosa
Couldn't get past the 45min mark. 179 podcasts and this is the only one i haven't finished, and probably never will
Sorry. I couldn't listen to the rest of the podcast. I stopped at 16:43.
When I heard the population of the entire city reduced from 340000 to 500. I couldn't go on anymore.
This was such a difficult episode to get through. Props to Jocko for bringing this event/book into the light. Right now, I just can't find the words. On the subject mentioned at the end, I just wanted to say I agree but also wanted to voice the fact that when you are in that position, there is no anything. It feels empty, lonely, and hopeless. There is a tipping point where survival instincts kick in and you do anything and everything you can to find the light or in worst case scenario it doesn't kick in and the only light is the one that checks you out. My heart goes out to all that have ever found themselves in the situation, and I hope they can find that light worth living for. It still blows my mind that so many drugs prescribed for depression have those kids of side effects😢. Be the rainbow, be the light... you just never know who might be counting on you to be their light. 🌺🤙
45:08
All right I tapped out there, enough for me. I've never been physically ill from hearing someone read a book before.
SODEMO2007 In Manchuria it was even worse then that. Unit 731 is truly evil personified.
Len M. They just did a podcast covering unit 731 (episode 133 I think). The shear numbers involved in Nanking are an added factor to the brutality.
It is very sad and tragic what happened to Iris Chang. The world lost a great person on November 9th 2004 and I believe it could have been prevented. Many times doctors will recommend many different antidepressants to a patient just trying to find one that works best for them. That is not good when the side-effects can be so severe with those medications.
That was the hardest fucking podcast to listen to. Holy shit, i'll do my best to never complain again..per 2:01:00
I...I haven't had sleep for the past couple of days and i just listened to this whole thing. My day is not going to be great but this will help me in the future. Thank you for this. Being Japanese, I'm shocked at...well, everything. Damn.
You wouldn't know much of this because you are Japanese
@@mrpuncher100 No, I wouldn't know much of this because I had an American education. I was born and bred in America, I was only taught about wwii through western eyes.
@@CannibalLecter they don't teach what happened like the Germans do because its the same government now as it was 80 years ago. Your parents probably didn't mention it but mine definitely did even though I was raised in Canada. I'm sure a lot of Chinese born an raised in the states know this history too. Just some choose not to remember and pass it down.
@@mrpuncher100 mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmyeahno, the only part I'll disagree with you is that it's not the same government as it was 80 years ago. After 80 years some things are bound to change. I saw a video last year about the current Japanese government administration quietly admit to the war crimes of wwii but it was a small announcement.
So far, my....like 5-6 chinese american friends I asked - after I saw this air - knew nothing about this. Like they knew about Japan invading mainland china during wwii but apart from the atrocities that occurred they were like, "nah not really dude. I never asked my parents about it."
@@CannibalLecter thats fair, I guess I just assumed most people knew about it but guess thats not the case. And you're right, things do change over time but they continued to support politicians who were known class A war criminals and one even managed to get elected prime Minister. The nazis never took power again in Germany after ww2.
This is a very Raw episode. It's easy so easy to see these foreign peoples as terrible and savage people, and I don't have time to say it's not just them but anyone who embraces what they did, just listen to previous podcast that talk about atrocities that we and many other nations have committed. The key is to understand that this stuff can happen and can happen to anyone anywhere. It is our job not to embrace the carnal disgustingness that can come during these times. The people that committed those crimes are not the same as the Japanese people today as I am not the same as the Americans that have slain women and children in Vietnam. Take this knowledge of evil with you and stop it when you see it. It was a tough read the first time I studied the Rape of Nanking. It is not for everyone, but everyone should be aware that this is what happens when you see others as below you.
This hurts to listen. I don’t know what to say. An emptiness but a tinge of pain is sinched in my heart
Love you dudes praise God for the truth you seek to make known in the world regardless of how harsh and unfathomable it may be. Your podcasts have had a profound impact in many areas of my life for the better and the betterment of those around me. Thanks for all you’ve done and continue to do
Wearing the "Know The Darkness" shirt when I opened this. I'd consider that fitting.
1:08:17 Never thought anything could justify the atom bombs...until now. It's making me sick to think this way, but it's true. It was justified...because it ended Nanking's terror.
Well not really. Can't speak to the state of nanking by the time the bomb was dropped but this happen in '37 and the bomb was dropped in '45. Its justified because this is the type of people that served the Japanese imperial army and they deserved everything they got.
The Atom Bombs dropped on Japan lands was partially right to do but in all honesty all Heads of States during that time were working with Globalists to intentionally cause WW2 and caused all these atrocities to happen because these staged theater of wars were done to sacrifice human lifeforce to feed bad aliens and demons who controlled the Globalists humans. These human sacrifices have been ongoing for eons cause Earth was a prison planet and was finally all stopped during the past 3 years when good forces finally killed all the bad aliens, demons, and 99% of human Globalist leaders.
I read The Rape of Nanking years ago. The Japanese very much earned both atom bombs. The Japanese were not victims. Great book. I highly recommend.
They practically killed her....they intended well, but horrible treatments.
Bad psychotherapy too. Specific therapies are good for PTSD.
And, no faith as a treatment....all meds, etc.
God bless her.
Recently discovered the podcast, this is the darkest one so far... But it needs to be out there, thank you for making this known to the broad public.
Me too. I've grown tired on the whining political "news" so I've been listening to quality podcasts that improve my mind and reading quality nonfiction books.
Jocko's podcasts are lengthy, but are full of great interviews and reviews of quality books. Time well spent. My only regret is that I didn't start doing this 20 years ago.
A very interesting one I listened to recently was Yeon-me Park (I think that's her name, I'm on mobile so cannot double-check right now) who recently appeared on Joe Rogan's podcast. I know what people say about Mr Rogan, but this woman escaped North Korea only because she was sold into slavery in China. Her story is utterly horrific, sickening, and terrifying - not just of the genocide unfolding in North Korea but also what she endured during her escape, and how this is happening to many thousands (even millions) of people right now. Please listen if you get the chance, it's free on Spotify and is extremely eye-opening.
@@Vexarax Yes, I have seen her on Jordan Peterson and I think Lex Fridman. Incredible woman.
Jocko and Jordan Peterson need to do a podcast together. Please thumbs up so they see it!!!
CHECKED!!! X3.
Can we get t-shirts of Echo Charles' face on front and on the back in whispering font:
"Be the sodium"
Truth will set you free. Thank you
Both stories are very sad. The 1st I knew but it's still incomprehensible the 2nd I also knew although I didn't know Iris. A person closer to me than myself went through a similar journey.
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Brutal, must have been a very hard book to read.
There’s this book I’ve read about a priest who failed an exorcism amidst the chaos in Nanking. There was this search for a murderer who not only killed but ate his victims too, only to find out that he was possessed. They found him in an isolated barn where a fire has started and the priest was not able to save him (literally and spiritually) but while he was asking him what’s his name (the devil’s name) he said “Cain’s Father” which is known as the cosmic lord of LIES and DEATH. 4 days later the rape of Nanking happened and the city was slaughtered. The Japanese had LIED that if the people surrender they will be treated well instead DEATH has enveloped it and probably why some “special” viciousness has reigned over those lands.
I read all the Crossed comics by Garth Ennis some time ago and thought nothing in real life could ever come close to its depravity. Today, my eyes are opened.
Only way for evil to triumph, is for good men to stand and to nothing.
This reminds me of Anthony bourdains. Successful people caught up in their own triumphs..jocko talks about the dark but sometimes too much “light’ is as blinding as the darkness...Took me a while to finish this one...war lets humans know we’re not that far from wild animals even after all our advancement in technology and science.
I’m 40 minutes in. I have tears down my face.
Thank you all who stand up for freedom and against evil. With out knowledge of history, I’ve heard we are doomed to repeat it. So, yes, teach it, let it be known what happened.
Go Jocko, Go Echo!!!
the dark is afraid of Jocko.
Tough to feel bad about Hiroshima and Nagasaki after this.
Michael Kofman, I agree completely. It seems to me that some people only focus on those 2 incidents. And while they were catastrophic, some seem to forget that they instigated with us with an all out terrorist attack. If we would not have retaliated, they would have kept coming. That Japanese time frame is one where their "god like" emperor was only concerned with conquering, not matter the cost of life, their own soldiers as well as the people they were attempting to conquer.
Indeed. Also, modern revisionists love to discuss Hiroshima and Nagasaki completely void of context. The most recent episode of Dan Carlin's Hardcore History podcast does a great job highlighting the gravity with which the decision to drop the bombs was made and places the events in context.
Michael Kofman, I will have to take some time and watch that. It's kind of sad that this same type of thinking is happening again today. People want to believe that America is just this big bully that likes to throw it's weight and power around. And all the while, they never put the events that caused such a stand. It makes me sick to think that some people believe that the u.s is attacking isis and isil and other groups , out of systematic racism by an entire government, and that it is unjust and unfair. While again leaving out the mitigating factors that the groups are committing acts of heinous mis treatment and legitimate terror to the individuals who disagree with their agenda. People scream that they want piece and that is simply not the case. They want complete submission of not some people, but all of them. And that is exactly what the empire of Japanese were after at this time in history, and FDR realized this and did what he had to do, bot simply for Americans, but for all the people this mindset placed in harms way. Sometimes excessive force is the necessary answer. Not all the time, hell not even most, but when it gets past the point of intelligent reasoning, force is the way to prove the point.
My daughters are huge how to train your dragon fans, and watching it with them I heard a character state this piece of philosophy "a person who kills without reason can not be reasoned with." And I completely agree. It's such a profound truth and it amazed me to hear it in a kids movie. No matter the setting the quote was spoken, it is a point that is 100% true.
Michael Kofman also we the US at the time can push around the emperor thats why he kept him in power because he was willing to work with us if he wasn't we would've killed him and everyone would know about this disaster that happen so because he was Pro American after the war Japan was kinda left to be the victim. And they killed more people in Nanking than both bombs did.
I think anyone should feel bad about more death. Yes, the historical context of the time wouldn’t have allowed for other options, but that doesn’t mean that burning the skin of thousands of civilians isn’t a tragedy in itself.
Its things like this that make it okay to cry about the world.
Just imagine that American GI's had to fight these guys face to face and won! Our forefathers were unbeleavable.
Pacific war theater was the HIGHLIGHT of American nation and ethic as a whole.
In the name of the whole world - thank you for wining that war America
@@GoryWory They didnt win shit wtf they certainly helped though but that myth needs to stop
what a great podcast. thank you mr. willink
If she was still around, she would have been a great guest on the Joko Podcast...RIP Iris Chang
After listening to this I couldn't sleep for a long time
Subscribed. Book ordered.
Shout out to all the dawgs
I grew up hearing about this as a kid, and I'm 63 now. This was not a secret, first books on it came out 1n 1937!!!
Too bad the author had such depression, before her suicide, she was working on a detailed book on the Bataan Death March.
The atrocities mentioned here are nearly at the level of those attributed to unit 731 - the main difference being that what was done in Nanking was done on a massive scale.
When evil gets to the level of genocide and torture,
The details are important.
Not for novelty.
But to destroy naiveness towards what humans are capable of when they heighten their ego and dehumanize other humans.
The graphic details also matter because real human beings LIVED the things that are making your stomach turn.
Their suffering is no longer isolated to a moment but it echoes in tragedy for humans to aim towards something greater.
You hear these atrocities and think they are the actions of an ancient civilization with extreme pagan values yet we are just getting to the last of our elders who have died from this time period.
Learning doesn’t change what happened but hopefully it changes you.
May we not caught up in extreme Nationalism/Tribalism that leads to behaviors like this.
America has its own brand that we actively live in so may we not fall to either side of the spectrum.
Balance is found is submitting to Jesus Christ as your Lord & Savior from the excesses of your pride.
He can forgive a man for committing an incredible evil like this and He was with every victim.
6:08
The 🔥🔥🔥🔥 starts here.
This story stole a piece of my soul.
this hurts man, I mean really hurts deep.
I found myself begging you to stop recounting the atrocities. I felt relief knowing that many of the women were killed after being brutally raped so as not to have to suffer the aftermath of such a thing. I felt incredibly lucky to have survived being raped and not killed, it gave a new meaning to being a "rape survivor". I have always thought that the bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki was pure evil and totally uncalled for. Yet this evil brought an end to this bottomless suffering to the people of Nanking. I felt glad that those bombs were dropped. Ultimately God keeps the score and all debts are paid. I'm glad I listened till the end because Jocko's words about finding balance between the good and evil and not getting diabolically disoriented aided in my healing. The Jocko podcast is always a roller coaster ride! You better hang on!
wonder how many times he is imagining his task unit rocking into town
i dunno why, but this is really good fuel for work when i'm tired.. it gives kinda a sick/stimulating feeling, like if you put your hand in a bowl of eyeballs... wakes me up, makes my guts squirm etc.. good stuff :) i know its horrible too, but good "wakeup and work" stuff :) Also like.. whatever kind of bad day you're having, this stuff is way worse and makes you feel like you got no problems at all :)
Iris’s story just reenforces the fact that in the case of an acute mental episode, DO NOT immediately start taking psychiatric medications. You can make things chronic and more severe. Doctors in the country are over prescribing this stuff.
Depressing but deeply interesting book, for anyone interested in a documentary about similar events, look for "The Act Of Killing", beautiful yet simple documentary of a man facing his evil deeds during the communist genocide in Indonesia. Very moving for a mostly interview driven documentary.
By the way the woman who is described as having had her head almost cut off, if you want you can find footage of her in the hospital.
I googled the title of the book and checked out the photos: big mistake! I am French and in school we watched hours of video form what happen in camp but we never talked about that part of history. I never heard about it before the podcast. Thanks for sharing that!
What Jocko starts talking about at 12:30 is a little off. When the Japanese went to war with America the reason they lost was not because it was robotic warriors vs free thinking warriors but because it was warriors vs industrialists. When warriors fight industrialists the latter wins. This is because industrialized societies have way more manpower, better technology and can produce supplies such as weapons, food, gear, medical equipment etc and transport them much faster.
Man, this was brutal to listen to. Unbelievable.
No words
this makes me realize how easy my life is my comparison. the hardest part of my day has been doing my dishes lol. and not a single Japanese soldier has stabbed me. i don't mean to make light of it but holy shit our lives are good by comparison! like holy the bad things that have happened to people on this planet are unreal.
This is Education!
I feel the second story is more upsetting than the unspeakable evil of the first story.