**Vague MOTHER 3 SPOILERS** from 9:25 - 10:20. Work on the big Alphys analysis is still underway! For now, enjoy a short vid discussing a popular Undertale and Deltarune theory that's been around since 2018. If you want to see how work is going and help support me, my patreon is at patreon.com/dorked. Feel free to comment to suggest other video topics and/or Inverted Fate tracks! You can read IF at invertedfate.com/chapters and also support me on Ko-Fi at ko-fi.com/invertedfate. Also, let me know how often is cool for OST uploads because I Don't wanna alienate the folks here for video essays. Maybe one a week? Check out my other Analysis vids here: ua-cam.com/video/4VfHhBh1c8c/v-deo.html Read Inverted Fate at: invertedfate.com/chapters Inverted Fate OST: soundcloud.com/megaflamehedge/sets/inverted-fate-ost Sewer Fundraiser: gofund.me/6989ad02 Read my Kingdom Hearts fic, Antipode at: archiveofourown.org/series/18376
I still believe sans is a darkner. The end of chapter 2 alludes to darkners coming to the human world, and the EGGs show us that certain objects can go between the light and dark world without changing form. Additionally, I believe he’s most likely related to the boss darkner bloodline (lancer, queen, and king) due to his color scheme of blue and white.
I dig the idea that while getting isekai'd sent Sans on an existential depression, Papyrus thought of it as great escapism. Maybe he saw the underground as a chance to start over, a real magical world where he could become a great and popular hero! It fits given how, in Undertale, Papyrus is one of the few monsters that couldn't really care less about the surface.
@@koumei_mei True, but then he immediately goes "but of course, it's only a dream". Everyone else is excited about the prospect of freedom, Papyrus doesn't even see it as something that's likely.
I actually think if Papyrus does end up being the knight, fantasy escapism could be a big part of what motivates him. Like it's easier to connect to and befriend darkners than real people.
Right? I don't think it is paps in DR. Toby alludes to it without outright saying it (ie, the trousle of bones being a bonetrousle ref, sans saying "my brother" instead of paps's name, etc). I don't mean to be a gaster person, but it could entirely be him, it could be someone we haven't met, we don't know
@@miriamava9512 I call my siblings by their name. "My sister, (name)" or "(name), my brother" when I talk about them. I call them their names to their faces. You don't call aunts or uncles just aunt/uncle, you call them aunt (name) or uncle (name) because it helps clarify and differentiate. You especially make the effort of including the name when it's someone you haven't met, so they know who you're talking about
I have a bit of an issue with Sans being from Deltarune, and that's Papyrus. You already went over Papyrus meeting a human in Undertale, but another thing is that he doesn't know what the sun looks like in Undertale until the pacifist ending. If the skeletons are from Deltarune, then how does Papyrus not know what the sun looks like? It makes him seem like a total idiot that doesn't know what basic fundamental objects look like. I guess amnesia could be a possibility but that feels unsatisfying
Yeah, shoot. That's a really good point about the sun. Like, either he was lying about not knowing what the sun is, or it's amnesia, or the theory kinda falls apart. It's not like Papyrus hasn't kept up appearances before (see: King Papyrus ending), but Papyrus absolutely contrasts with all the evidence in Sans' favor.
Adding on to this, the only other major excuses I can think of are Papyrus being a very young child (like 3 or 4) but that feels like infantilizing him, or that only Sans goes from Undertale to Deltarune while Papyrus in Undertale is separate from Papyrus in Deltarune (which brings up a whole slew of questions)
@@Dorked It's not that he doesn't know what the sun is (he mentions the sun several times in the game, including in front of sans in pacifist) it's just that he doesn't know that the floating orb in the sky is the sun
@@radicaldreemurr9972 Yeah, THAT IS TRUE. His date comes to mind. I think there's a possibility that he's faking it, but then the question is, "why would he fake it?" I suppose to fit in with the world and not let on that he and Sans came from a place where monsters lived on the surface in peace, but this relies so heavily on pure speculation with only the slightest tangential evidence that it really isn't conclusive enough. It does raise a lot of bizarre questions about Sans, too.
Honestly, whilst there is Papyrus not knowing things he should if he came from a surface world, it could just boil down to the sole factor of losing his memory. Hell, we could also say Sans lost his memory as well, but managed to regain bits over time.
I'm convinced that both of them lost their memory, especially if we believe the theory that Deltarune is in a timeloop. I'm thinking that perhaps at the very end, a group of characters will catch on to this loop and will build that machine we see in Sans's lab and will use it to escape, probably only sans and Papyrus making it though but not without the timeloop happening at the same time, which would wipe their memories. The only reason why they remember anything, at least mostly Sans, is because of the objects they brought over. It could also explain why he "forgot" Toriel's name, even though he could totally recognize her appearance and voice and why Papyrus "forgot" how humans look like despite possibly meeting one in DR. Personally, the only problem I see with this is that it would have to be very obvious that they jumped world's at the last second, and I think that would be way too much to catch on to if there's like, a fight going on or something, idk. Or, they just lost their memories because jumping worlds is kinda similar to resetting in this universe?? Idk, just throwing my two cents out there.
Maybe that's why he has a photo with the caption "Don't forget". Maybe he was aware that he would loose his memories when going to a different world and tried to prevent this.
An obvious solution that im seeing pointed out in both the comments and on some tumblr blogs for the papyrus flaws in the otherworld sans theory, is that only sans is from another world, and Papyrus is indeed the papyrus from undertale, this not only solves the previously mentioned flaws, but also solves the whole Sans bleeding thing, where Papyrus does not bleed. Besides, river person said beware the man from another world, not "men", its singular
I've seen that suggested on Tumblr too, but my only issue with it is that if there was a chance to escape Deltarune with the machine, why wouldn't Sans save his brother first? It just feels very selfish I guess. The only thing I can think of that patches this up a bit is that it was Papyrus that saved Sans and he stayed behind, but idk. That would be a little too tragic ig ^^' buuuut it would explain the slight disconnect between the two in Undertale so...maybe that's what happened.
@@snowflake_18 Sans states that he "gave up trying to go back a long time ago", implying that he doesnt really want to be there, that could imply that however he got into undertale, he didnt come there on purpose. Maybe the machine wasnt how he got there, maybe its how he was trying to get back.
That's a fair point! It does still raise questions about Papyrus and why Sans wouldn't bring his DR brother along on top of... what does that mean for UT Papyrus? UT Papyrus is also fairly mysterious and strange in his own way, but you are right that the riverperson only mentioned a singular man. :p
Didn't they both appear out of nowhere? And wtf happened to UT sans if that's the case? If he's dead then surely someone would have noticed his sudden reappearance and if he doesn't exist surely people would have questioned how papyrus would have a new brother out of nowhere. On top of that it just feels incredible out of character for sans to run away and leave his brother behind. And that doesn't explain a lot of things about both sans and papyrus tbh.
@@moon4236 Again, it may not have been up to sans's control, he mightive been forced to come to undertale, and as for undertale sans, he couldve just swapped places with deltarune sans.
An interesting thing to note about Toby’s different rules statement is that sans can bleed supposedly, with Susie’s statement “everyone bleeds” this could be a better connection to this theory.
The Susie line is such an odd one to me because there are actually sprites of her bleeding that were cut and the bunny kid npc acts like humans being made of blood is weird. Dunno what to make of that.
I mean we do not even know if Sans is actually really bleeding, it also could be ketchup because he is the only Undertale character who is drinking ketchup.
I can't believe you managed to go the whole video without saying "But hey, THAT'S just a theory!" I guess something else that'd be interesting to bring up is Sans' Ice-E crossword; Ice-E is practically nonexistent outside of Sans' crossword puzzle in Undertale (His only appearance is specifically through Sans), but he's much more prevalent in DeltaRune, being the mascot of a pizza place (This point might be a bit iffy, but the Ice-E puzzle appealing to kids does line up pretty well with the whole pizza place thing) Pretty great video overall, this topic's definitely an oldie, but I still enjoyed its analysis
Well, my current interpretation is that Gaster is actually a Deltarune character that was foreshadowed in Undertale, and with his implied connection to the skelebros, maybe…
YEAH, I think the FUN events were 100% setup for Deltarune. I think it explains a lot about the majority of them, barring a few smaller things like the pizza and fridge calls.
It's likely that, with him splitting across time and space, Gaster is both an Undertale character and a Deltarune character while being the same person in both games
I'm really curious to know how Papyrus will be like in Deltarune because if your really think about it, the majority of what makes Papyrus' character revolves around the Underground. Sure maybe this core cheerful personality would be present as well as his funny quirks and insecurities but I wonder how he'll be like in the context of Deltarune. Like the only reason he wants to be in the Royal Guard is because he wants to be popular and make many friends, but there is no Royal Guard in Deltarune. The only reason he makes spaghetti (and other pasta dishes) is because Undyne didn't want him to join the guard because she thought his kindness would get him killed but she still wanted to help him and inspire him to do something else, but with no Royal Guard there is no making pasta for Papyrus. His battle body was made for a costume party and Papyrus uses it as his main "armor" to join the Guard, but with no Royal Guard there may not be no battle boy so Papyrus would be wearing normal clothes (or his cool dude outfit). Not to mention that with no Mettaton in deltarune (at least not the Mettaton we are familiar with) that means no MTT products that Papyrus uses. I'm just saying that Papyrus will not be the same Papyrus we all know and admire and love, either he'll probably be younger or, and let's pray it don't happen, he ends up like his concept design were he is a fedora wearing neckbeard with zero redeeming qualities (We all know Toby be reusing his old concept art like how Sans got his visor for the concept art when running the game spot from the Xbox version of undertale).
I suspect DR Papyrus will be a foil to Kris if he becomes an important character/is the knight. If he IS the Roaring Knight, that means that he'd be going around and opening fountains and I could see it being a means of escapism for him because of his lonely life and perhaps being being too shy at this point in time to go out in socialize and it being easier to bond with darkners. Maybe it's the whole new town thing, too. Him not being sure how to fit in/missing where he was before.
I'm gonna write this speculation ramble here before I forget, but basically I'm on board with the Deltarune timeloop theory, despite how tragic that theory might be, it holds some water mostly because of the talk of "fate" and our actions not mattering. Anyways, I think that at some point towards the end, some characters will catch on to the time loop and will try to make their escape to another world (Undertale) by building the machine we see in Sans's lab. However, only Sans and Papyrus make their escape at the last minute before the loop happens and they don't get out unscathed, their memories are mostly wiped. The only reason why they remember anything at all is because of the objects they brought over with them. I honestly think Sans's is the one who remembers the most, not because of any power, but because he seems to have more deep bonds and fond memories of his time in Deltarune while Papyrus was mostly a shut-in who will likely only meet Kris once or very few times. Sans's has already seen Kris twice, and it's not a stretch to say they'll meet again in the next chapters, so that could explain why he knows what a human looks like. It's also possible that Sans's really did forget Toriel's name, but knows's how she looks like (photo album perhaps?) and vaguely remembers her voice, hence why he connects with her so quickly and makes that promise with little hesitance. It's also possible, but a little dumb, that jumping worlds works similar to resetting in regards to how much memory a character can retain, and maybe they made the jump too soon without seeing the end fate of DR. That would probably prompt Sans (and Paps if he's the second one) to find a way to fix the machine and ultimately give up when proven impossible. Papyrus is the one that feels like an odd piece to the puzzle, especially since I'm claiming that he remembers the least, but I don't think this infantilizes him. The thing is, he DOES remember, he just doesn't have many important ties to Deltarune that makes him miss his old home. In fact, I think he sees Undertale as a fresh start, somewhere he can finally go out and be friends with everyone, a magical place! I also think both brothers are keeping these memories to themselves, since there is a slight disconnect between the bros in the game (King Papyrus ending for ref). He also admitted to having nightmares (possibly the DR ending?) in the game and hints to being aware of resets, at least Frisk having "a power" to undo their actions. I know that some people suggest that Sans is the only one who jumped worlds and Papyrus is from Undertale, but the Snowdin Shopkeeper literally confirms that BOTH of them showed up so, that theory doesn't make sense (unless y'all wanna argure that her memories got altered somehow asldkfjlakdjf). The only hole I see with this ramble is that, if they made this jump, then what happened to the original UT Sans and Paps? Did they literally just get replaced or swapped? Spoof out of existance?? Did they ever even exist XD I could ramble more but I think this is long enough- thoughts anyone?
Ah....somehow I forgot the weird Gaster connections. In my opinion, if the skelebros are connected to him in any way, then those connections are likely with Deltarune Gaster, not Undertale Gaster. If they were connected to UT Gaster, then that would mean that he originiated from DR too or he was personally jumping worlds to fulfill his Royal Scientist role and somehow got "shattered" but exists in DR....but that convolutes everything! So, imo, the bros are related to DR Gaster and not UT's. A little more can be speculated if you wanna believe the Dadster theory but uuuuuh, I'll just cut it here lmao
The idea of some selective amnesia for BOTH brothers I can definitely get more on board with than just Papyrus. My issue with it just being Papyrus who forgets is that it'd put more importance on Sans again which is just such a big thing in the fandom. But these are really interesting observations and the whole "did they replace other versions of themselves" is certainly a good question.
Whats crazy interesting about time loop theory is that, if its true, we could very well have to replay the game multiple times, but with more characters being aware of the situation.
I've always had issues with this theory just because of how.. retcon-y it feels, and how many details don't line up with that in Undertale, like you pointed out. Obviously there's a ton of meta jokes around him in Deltarune, but it just didn't feel right to me. Not to mention, the narrator's meta jokes feel like a narrator, I'm a firm believer that Deltarune has no in-world narrator like Chara in Undertale. One theory is do think could hold fruition though, is that perhaps both Sanses made a connection with each other. Think about it, the theme for Gaster - the goner maker guy who I'm 99% sure is Gaster - is called _ANOTHER_ HIM, while Gaster's theme in Undertale is called "him" in the files. If there's two Gasters, why not two Sanses? Maybe they saw each other once, for how long and if they even spoke we don't know, but that machine in Sans's lab still has a very unknown purpose. Perhaps that had something to do with it? Hell, maybe Gaster is the only one who actually figured out anything about Deltarune, and simply relayed some info from Sans! But this is all just speculation at this point, I do think we'd need more evidence to reach a sound conclusion.
Yeah, the idea of there being communication between the two worlds is a neat one, too! It does raise a lot of bizarre questions about UT sans still, but even the "other world" theory is not foolproof.
I think the Gaster in Deltarune wouldn’t shatter himself across time and space. Because why would he; As in Undertale he fell into the core but in Deltarune that just wouldn’t make sense for him to build it. As monsters in Deltarune live on the surface making other types of energy more possible and making a giant thermoelectric generator less practical. So the only real way he could have been shattered is if shattering one character shatters all other versions.
what comes to mind for me is sans' line "Don't tell that to the other sans's" during his fight, it could just mean the sans's from other timelines, but it could also mean an entirely other sans.
wow, there were a lot more point for the theory then i initially thought i am kind of confused about papyrus though. if sans originated in deltarune and came to undertale, that would explain how he "showed up one day", but that also implies that papyrus came at the same time. and the gap between personalities in games is very weird. one thing we know for sure about papyrus's character is that he looks up to undyne very much and will do anything to capture a human to impress her. whats strange is he doesn't seem to be like that at all in deltarune. in deltarune, hes a shut in who doesn't see people often. i would accept something along the lines of he had a change in heart after he went to undertale and met undyne, and aspired to be like her, but in deltarune undyne is a very similar person. she still has the same personality and ideals, with the police instead of the royal guard. surely, he had heard or even met her before. which would either mean he had no clue of undynes existence in deltarune which means he even more of a shut in then we thought, something else is going on that is completely different then this theory, or, most horrifically, he never looked up to undyne. he wanted to enter the royal guard for his own reasons, and was putting up an act. this seems so impossible, so out of character for him, and saying that he just acts the way he is in all of undertale is crazy. but, remember who his brother is. his brother, who has knowledge of different worlds, the power to kill a human hundreds of times, who had perhaps know about a man who was scattered across time and space, and came off as a goof who knew nothing put pranks. perhaps, the biggest deception that he could possibly put up, the one he has been for all of undertale, was his brother. what if they were both like that, and papyrus has some other goals. and that concludes my stupid theory with a million plot holes that i came up with on the spot! thanks you, thank you. wow at first that was a question to myself and it evolved into an entire theory
You could run with it being kind of like... the more fantastical world of UT made him feel more comfortable opening up, or mayhaps he has character development between now and the end of DR that results in the Papyrus we know in UT. There's so many angles and interpretations and the fact that we don't have a complete story for DR really makes it hard to form definitive angles. That can be a lot of fun tho!
If we go by the Roaring Knight Papyrus theory, it's possible Papyrus will only meet Kris within the Dark World, and consequently not recognize them as a human but simply as another lightner. Or, as trope-y as it is, Papyrus having forgotten about Deltarune via some amnesia could genuinely be a way of using the "Forgettable" line in a different way. Alternatively, Undertale's Papyrus is just _really_ good at acting like he doesn't know things. He does seem allude to knowing about "endings" and that we can reset a couple times.
Oh my god, "forgettable" not as in "it's easy to forget about him" but as in "he easily forgets" would be such a good pun and exactly what Toby would do-
YEEEEEEEAAAAAAHHH This is something I've been convinced of ever since chapter 2 dropped, and while there are definitely some set backs (Papyrus as a whole is the biggest detriment to the theory), I still feel it would explain so much of Sans' character, his dialog and actions, and I'm glad I got a video I can share with people that lays down the evidence in an organized manner, thank you very much!!
:) You're welcome! And please do share. It really helps the video and my channel out, especially when this month has been pretty hard, performancewise.
Honestly, this is a theory I really do like, despite the couple of gaps. For a while I’ve been entertaining the idea of, as a bit of fan service (not that kind), that there’s going to be something of a subplot where Toby delves into Sans/the skele-bros’ origins, even if it doesn’t directly connect to the main Dark World plot. It certainly _seems_ like what he’s getting at, after adding the “Don’t Forget” note to Sans’ secret room. As for Paps, maybe _only_ Delta Sans was brought over, while Delta Papyrus wasn’t? Certainly dark, but… considering Undertale Sans’ outlook on his situation, I wouldn’t rule something like it out, personally. I can definitely agree that Deltarune being revealed as a traditional prequel would be a bit iffy by contrast, considering Deltarune is Toby’s longtime passion project, and how he wants people to view it separately from Undertale. And, yeah: Paps plain not showing up, or having amnesia in Undertale would both kind of be a cop-out, in my honest opinion (plus, the latter might raise unfortunate implications if his amnesiac personality is different from his “original” one). Sidenote: The Papyrus Knight theory is actually another one I really like! Especially since it’s always come across to me that Papyrus was Toby’s favorite of the two bros, I feel like everyone’s favorite Fox has got something special planned for ol’ Paps. At this point, I might be buying Chapter 3-5 solely to see what the heck Paps turns out to be like! (Okay that’s a joke but still ;D) -As for whether or not I’m hoping he has a fedora… that’s another story.-
I think the best part about Papyrus Knight theory is that if done well, it could really give Papyrus a rich character arc where he goes from being lonely and perhaps a bit jaded to really blossoming and becoming the really positive and heartfelt character we see in UT. I think it's an interpretation of the character that could really lead to something great, but we'll have to see what Toby has in store. Papyrus and Kris being foils would be neat, too.
@@Dorked Yeah, exactly! Papyrus would basically evolve from acting out wish fulfillment of being a “Knight” in the Dark World, to actually _becoming_ someone who acts for the good of everyone ^_^ Whatever comes out of Delta Papyrus, I really hope we do get something good, and it doesn’t just amount to a troll moment. Even if it doesn’t wind up being part of the main story, I think Toby has a chance to go with several, really cool options for everyone’s favorite COOL DUDE :D
Just a reminder despite the fan interpretation papyrus makes several references to other timeliness for example in a pacifist ending post content papyrus says "I'm still not in the royal gaurd this truly is the worst possible timeline"
Very true! I'll see if I can slide that into the followup video, along with him knowing about Sans' baggage. :p There were some things I left out like Ice-E and the whole sun thing so I do wanna touch on a few other lil' details.
Great video! This theory has been in the back of my mind for a while, and I'm glad to see more videos covering it. My best guess is that the sans we see in Undertale IS from Deltarune's world somehow. It's the only thing that really makes sense to me, since sans says numerous times that he wants to go back somewhere, but that it isn't the surface either. I just can't think of any other places that aren't located in the underground or the surface in Undertale, which leads me to believe it has to be a different universe like Deltarune. Just my guess though, and we'll see more with more information. As for Papyrus fitting into all this? Who knows LOL
Yeah, Papyrus really is the biggest headscratcher. We know so little about how he factors into Deltarune, but then you have the UT pacifist ending as another commenter pointed out, where he (presumably) doesn't immediately recognize the sun. Unless he's lying, but that might be a bit odd.
i feel like traveling between the worlds could've messed with Papyrus' memory of the deltarune world and not Sans' (maybe because he's the smart one of the two)
@@Dorked Listen, i not saying papyrus is dumb or stupid. in fact, he's my favorite character, but lets be real, sans is definitely the smarter of the brothers
i think sans's dialogues in undertale pretty much confirm that he and papyrus came from a parallel universe. That this universe is deltarune doesn't seem very feasible to me, like you have pointed out in your video. I think this is to introduce the concept of alternative universes and that people don't get confused thinking that deltarune was the same world as undertale (although there was a lot of confusion even so) anyway, i'm a big fan of the theory of two gasters, one from undertale and one from deltarune, and it seems to me that this could be a more logical connection between both games than 'oh look the skelebros come from deltarune but they have amnesia lol'
Yeah, it's possible they could be from another world entirely! We just don't know. The clamgirl stuff is what is most perplexing, I think. TOBY, WHAT YOU DOIN'...
I don’t think you should be so quick to dismiss the possibility that Sans is a Darkner. After all, Sans displays numerous characteristics that set him apart from the rest of the monsters in the Underground. He bleeds. His death doesn’t make the kill counter increase. He lacks an overhead health bar. He looks nothing like his brother. Sans being a Darkner can account for all of these facts. While we have yet to learn how a Darkner could manage to persist outside of a Dark World and beyond the range of a Dark Fountain, that doesn’t make it completely impossible. After all, one of UT’s general rules was that only humans can achieve high levels of determination, yet Undyne the Undying eventually comes along as an exception to that rule.
My problem is like... I feel like while the bleeding thing is there, and the teleport doors, there's no reason to assume he can't just be a monster skeleton. Siblings can inherit traits from either parent, so it could be that Sans takes more after one and Papyrus takes after the other. I do think there's definitely a connection between Sans and the dark world, but we just know too little for the Sans darkner theory to be likely based on current information. Later aspects of the game could change that! It's hard to say.
@@Dorked While siblings can look dissimilar from one another due to inheriting different combinations of traits from either parent, what makes Sans and Papyrus suspicious is that they’re the only monster relatives in UT that are like this. All members of both the Snowdrake family and the Dreemurr family look very similar to one another, and they even use the same exact bullets when attacking. Yet this is not the case with Sans and Papyrus. They’re opposites in virtually every way, which makes me quite skeptical of their supposed biological relation to one another. While the “Sans is a Darkner” theory would definitely benefit from having more evidence provided later down the line, I still feel pretty confident about it rn. But we’ll just have to wait and see what happens…
@@psychopomp4135 To be fair, though, that's likely done for simplicity's sake to avoid having to make a ton of unique encounters. Catty and Catti look p. distinct from each other, as do QC and the Snowdin Shopkeeper, who are also sisters. I dont' think there are really enough examples to make a case for them not being biologically related at this time.
I kinda do wonder, it does seem that so far everything is leading to Sans being the same we meet in Undertale but the most that breaks this theory is Papyrus. But what if, Papyrus was the same and the reason he seems to not remember anything is that is his way to, as they say, keep a low profile? In his own way of course, which leads to him not sounding very smart at times but also contradicting himself other times because he probably too excited about something or he a bit too honest for his own good.
for a long time, i have had a theory that gaster accidentally found the deltarune world (why he isn’t in undertale when we play it) and brought in the player that controlled frisk into kris to seal the dark worlds. what are your thoughts? it has evidence, it just makes sense in my eyes, but feel free to point out loopholes.
It's really hard to say! With Gaster being torn across time and space, there could be a hint of simultaneity, especially with funky stuff like DR's three saves having slight differences.
I've always found it interesting how Sans just suddenly appears/moves into the town as soon as all the dark world stuff starts, it seems like he has to have some kind of ties to it. he just kinda appeared in Undertale one day too, maybe this is just something he does? hop between worlds to make his new home?
something else is that papyrus doesnt recognize the sun at the end of true pacifist but sans seemingly does. this could be explained by sans having an interest in astronomy but the fact that he has that interest despite living underground is something to note in itself. sans' abilities all seem to be related to space as well (teleportation, gravity control) which makes him the perfect foil to our time powers. he pranks us across time AND space after all. it would make a lot of sense thematically if he was the man from another world
I think that one of the big plot twists of Deltarune will be that the Papyrus of Deltarune will not travel with Sans to Undertale(Or maybe die), that would be the reason that sans bleeds and papyrus doesn't, and would justify the dialogs of Sans during the end of the pacifist route saying that he can't save him. Also I don't think that Papyrus is the knight, I think he's the man behind the tree, being foreshadowed if i'm not mistaken in a piece of Undertale merchandice.
I think that maybe if the Deltarune theory is true, then both brothers are from Deltarune BUT due to some misunderstandings, they assume the other is originally from Undertale. They both still see eachother and brothers, but they both might try to keep a facade of being originally from Undertale. We've already seen Papyrus do a facade for when people are around vs when he's alone
I know the man who speaks in hands was assigned to gaster by the fandom but it seems just as likely it's about sans too: his face never changes, which leaves body language to decipher his emotions. He also uses his hands to direct bone attacks, unlike papyrus who stays still during battle.
FINALLY SOMEONE TALKED ABT PAPYRUS’ ABSENCE IN THE GAMEEES also if you knock again after ch.2 it says ( faintly, faintly, a trousle, growing further away.) which is worrying
Intrtesting detail to support the fact that characters from undertale might have originated in deltarune is the fact that so far, some of the characters from deltarune appear as gaster followers in undertale. While every character hasnt been introduced yet, its still a possible connection. This would also explain why characters such as monster kid and donut man appears as regular people too, because the gaster followers they resemble are not from the same universe. This also connects to the flower bird thing that resides in the library in Deltarune, but not in undertale. Its an intresting connection...
Maybe the reason there is a disconnect is because sans is the only one with the ability to remember besides flowey who we haven’t seen and the player. Even in undertale papyrus never once mentions anything about the past before they went to Snowdin. It’s very possible that the only thing papyrus knows is that sans is his brother and he knows this because it is consistent across all timelines. So the change in timeline may represent a younger papyrus or maybe one that’s the same age who just is rattled from the timeline shift
Is there really any solid evidence that suggests sans "remembers things" outside of fandom slop? Geniune question. I know he says different things after each time you die when fighting against him, but when you actually reset the game and restart, nothing he does really changes.
the feeling of watching my favorite undertale au creator repeatedly reference my favorite undertale/deltarune theorist is a great one indeed. in all honesty, somehow wasn't expecting dorked to know halfbreadchaos, and it makes me happy that dorked does know them
6:58 In Ch1 he does say that he befriended Toriel LAST NIGHT, so this probably means that they didn not really know each other properly until that night.
I'm glad to see more people discussing this theory, I think it's pretty underrated for so much sense it makes and I'd really love if turn out real, I think it's likely. Anyway, I don't think him not calling tori by name is good evidence against the theory, let's be honest, it would be really weird for you to walk up to someone who doesn't know you and just call her by name I think. sans is just really good at keeping up appearances. I don't think sans coming from deltarune means that deltarune itself is going to have a bittersweet ending, It is possible that deltarune has a happy ending but sans left deltarune before seeing the ending because the situation was REALLY bad, so he doesn't know if everything turned out well or not and that can be really interesting but this is just an idea
It'd be kinda weird to go back if the world was ending. I mean maybe he took the facf that he wasn't able to as proof that it really did when he actually wasn't sure after doing it, that's something of a possibility.
ngl i think at minimum sans came from deltarune somehow. he's the *only* person to share an exact theme song with everyone else. Toriel and her house have completely remade themes, meanwhile when you go to Sans's in chapter 2 sans. is the exact same as it was in undertale.
Hi Dorked! Really quick comment but I must say that I wished you put a spoiler notification for Mother 3 at 9:46. [MOTHER 3 SPOILERS] The roaring and what happens at the end of Mother 3 are huge mirrors of each other, I feel. It seems that making a simple statement of "DR might be like the ending of Mother 3" can allude to the entirety of Mother 3's ending for someone who hasn't played. I'm so sorry for being a concerned nerd about this but I know that there are a few people out there who haven't played Mother 3 and it is honestly one of my favorite games out there. It certainly has played as inspiration for Toby's games. Thank you for reading and I really enjoyed this look into this matter. I always just thought of it as "well it has to be the same sans, certainly?". It might go deeper than that for sure.
THAT'S A GOOD POINT, and I wish I had the foresight to do that. Admittedly, I kinda had to get the video out fast partially becuase my channel hasn't been doing very well this month and partially because I've been on a bit of a crunch due to other things going on IRL and with other projects. >.o maybe if I do closed captions I'll try to address that, at least. I've just got a busy weekend.
If Sans really is from Deltarune, that would make the premise of Inverted Fate even funnier, because then he'd have been ripped from not just one world, but two!
Maybe Sans is Sans, but Papyrus isn't from Deltarune. I can see Sans forming a bond with the AU version of his brother. Especially if he's the reason AU Sans is gone. This is a lot less contrived than any of the other explanations. And given that Sans went and got himself stranded, it make sense that he'd want to leave his original brother out of whatever experiment or gamble landed him in Undertale.
Also, Sans is the only monster who bleeds in Undertale, and Susie and Lancer in Chapter 1 mention that everyone has blood (in the part where Lancer brings a bucket so that when they fight the blood falls there).
You mentioned Sans saying he's new in town and that 'new' can be relative, but I've also seen the point brought out that Sans could just be lying that he's new in town, as a way of testing if 'Kris' is the one talking with him, or someone else. That said, I've already been inclined to the 'UT!Sans is from Deltarune' theory. Also as for the Papyrus issue. Lately I've been going back to the 'Papyrus is Gaster, but Gaster himself forgot who he is' theory. I probably need to watch a let's play of DR again to check I'm not misremembering, but if I do recall correctly, Sans has not yet referred to Papyrus by name, and has ONLY referred to him as 'my little brother.' The biggest indication it IS Papyrus is being told you hear 'the distant trousling of bones' when you check the skelebros' door. So I wonder if being so weird about mentioning Papyrus' name, and no one else in Hometown seeming aware of Papyrus' existence, could be foreshadowing? That said! It speaks volumes that my biggest piece of evidence for this specific theory is an overwhelming lack of evidence about Papyrus overall. It also becomes extremely complicated when you try to make it co-exist with 'Gaster was originally from Undertale'. Not impossible, but there are almost certainly simpler explanations to both.
Eyy, thanks! ...Though I wonder if he deals actual nuts or peanuts, which are in fact not actually a nut. Same with coconuts... I think. I'll have to double check.
Haha. xD Gosh, now you have me picturing Dohj vlogging about the Heat Haze Series and getting into online fan wars. Incredible. She'd totally use an alt account.
Well, that's actually quite an interesting theory, and I really love how you explained it! (If it doesn't work out, at least there's the IF!Sans Backstory...)
If Sans is a fragment of Gaster or related to him, it could lead to a shared memory phenomenon. Sans could be different people in both games but recall some memories of each other. Wanting to go "home" in Undertale isn't quite explained by this though.
My immediate thought wrt Sans not remembering us in Deltarune whilst we (the player, not Kris) remember him is that for him the chronology is backwards. Sans is experiencing DR before UT. Doesn't necessarily explain Papyrus having never seen a human, but honestly it doesn't feel very strongly like papyrus traveled between worlds (at least whilst remembering). Could be a case of Sans getting a new Papyrus, or it could be an amnesia situation.
I *REALLY* love the point about amnesia you've made. Many fan-theories fall into the pitfall of making "amnesia/memory loss" the knot that helps the theory not fall apart. "Because the amnesia just coincidentally took the memories that'd make my theory fit, while it coincidentally didn't take the memories that make up most of my theory" is how Ifear most of it. Meanwhile you seem aware of that, as you mentioned the possibility shortly but called it unsatisfying. YES, exactly, it's very convenient and seems like a duct-tape on something just to force it into fitting together. With there still being 5 (or more?) chapters of Deltarune coming, it's very possible we still miss puzzle pieces that'd make these fit together more rationally than just some contrived amnesia. And I really respect that you noticed that and didn't fall into this pitfall. Earned my subscription.
What if Undertale is a darkworld in which everybody is stuck? What if when Angel's Heaven is not prevented, Undertale happens? The more I see theories the more I'm convinced that Undertale will be a "subchapter" of Deltarune, a parallel world or just a substory of the real bigger world of Deltarune.
Maybe just Sans is from undertale, maybe at some point he decided to go to deltarune's timeline and that's why papyrus hasn't appeared yet, cuz sans is trying to get him to deltarune, idk just though about that
Amazing video as always! Toby really did raise a lot of speculations making Sans in deltarune look identical to his Undertale counterpart. Is this only to troll us? Or is there something more to this? Can't wait for next chapters to learn more about this and see how right or wrong all the theories will turn out to be. Keep up the great work!
Sometimes i wonder if Papyrus actually doesn't exist in Deltarune and Sans is just pranking us. I wonder what Papyrus's job is going to be. Aside from that I wish that we learn more about Hometown's history in future chapters. In Undertale we don't really know much about the history of the underground apart from what's relevant to the main plot. A few more details about the history of the places there and the pasts of the characters would be nice.
I think he does exist, given the steam profile and goner maker, plus his v oice being in the game. As for the town's history, I'd certainly love to know more. It's very cozy.
One of the most interesting things to notice about Sans and Papyrus: they're named after inanimate objects. Just like Spamton is a spambot, Sans and Papyrus personify fonts This doesn't mean Sans and Papyrus are literally Darkners, but it does give interesting implications that they may have been created in the early stages of creating Deltarune, before the basic concept of Darkners was fully completed. There might or might not have been a moment when Toby thought that Sans and Papyrus would be Darkners or monsters while the rest of the Light World was a boring world of humans that had forced all the Darkners / monsters out of their world, and I guess the skeleton brothers escaped after a long time or something? I don't know. All I know is the lore of Deltarune does not look like that any more
Y’know, it’s entirely possible that Papyrus might just be a baby in Deltarune. And when Sans moved dimensions, Papyrus was still a baby. It would explain the discrepancy, without ruining Papyrus’ character in Undertale. Those are my thoughts on it.
I dunno, I can't unhear the phrase "I'm with you in the dark" sneaking into the Snowdin Town theme, which really sets off a red flag for me given how frequently the songs from Deltarune have bits of Don't Forget show up here and there. Then again, I'm not an expert in music and I never see anyone else mention it in their Sans world-hopping theories. Is it just me? Am I hearing things?
I’m very pleased to see this video, as this was one of my favourite fan theories along with the sans and papyrus are the pieces of gaster. I think the latter theory has multiple holes though as I believe sans did not write the bad grammar lab entries
Just poppin in a little comment to please the higher powers of the youtube algorithm, I wish I had something good or inetesting to add but there's not much I have to say other than great vid as always and man, I miss papyrus. That "forgettable" description always hits me so different
I think he is a separate skeleton but one that knows about the existence of parallel versions of himself and the "player". Like how the Undertale one knows about saving and stuff. He sees the Kris and the player behind and figures you've probably met another version of him at some point.
Deltarune's fountains and Gods thing really reminds me of Mother 3 where they talk about powerful dragons and magic important needles. *[SPOILERS]* In Mother 3 the apocalypse happened but fortunately they didn't die. Comparing Deltarune and Mother 3 has surprising similarities where this predecessor games are completely different and new but still connected with the world building.
I'm a fan of Jaru's crackpot version of this theory in which Papyrus dies and Sans leaves the Deltarune world behind with the help of the Lancer Fan Club after the Roaring begins.
8:17 Year late and probably already commented, but for Papyrus not recognising Kris, maybe he’d only see them in the Dark World, therefore not associating the two together. (Maybe he’ll refer to Kris as Lightner and not Human as being a human isn’t as much as a big deal in Deltarune)
PAPS could have had a form of memory wipe after he and sans were thrown into undertale from deltarune. Also keep in mind if PAPS and sans did just "show up" in undertale post deltarune and PAPS is the knight then sans IS definitely helping him and would explain why they BOTH just showed up there post deltarune. and IF PAPS has forgotten what a human looks like then its safe to say he's NOT a good person, he's probably a NICE GUY like "flowey" in deltarune and the reason he got his memory wiped is because he got his [butt] handed to him HARD by kris and susie and/ or ralsei. which would turn him from "THE KNIGHT" [the bad guy with a fedora] into "THE GREAT PAPYRUS" [the lovable goof]. just my 2 cents.
also this would make mat pat right about the sans is ness theory fyi, since nobody knew about deltarune back then he guessed it was ness but everything he says still holds up if you put sans in ness's place.
One point I saw in JaruJaruJ's video (he made a similar, more expanded theory after you) is that Deltarune Papyrus is probably dead, and Sans went to the Undertale world alone, perhaps BECAUSE Papyrus died. I think this is the most likely reason in general for Sans to wish to go to another world, be it to find a method to save him or escape the calamity that got Papyrus killed. It opens up the question of what the hell happened to Undertale Sans and that... well maybe Jaru himself can explain his thoughts on the matter. I enjoyed how he unraveled it in his video.
what if the Underground is a dark world, since the warp door only shows up in one? would that imply that the "powerful spell" that "trapped everyone inside" could have connection with it?
6:45 Oh huh. I just realized you casually referred to the Snowdin Shop Bunny as QC. I was so confused for a second before I realized duh, if her café in Deltarune is called "QC's", of course her name is QC, and that should carry over to Undertale!
In the Genocide route, Sans tells you to keep pretending to be a human, implying that he has an established idea of what a human is, and genocidal maniac does not fit.
Maybe this is already disproven, but couldn't it be that Sans remembers Deltarune's world, while Papyrus doesn't because he was too young at the time? Sans might have more years on Papyrus than we realize, and thus the two have been in Snowdin for most of Papyrus' life but Sans remembers and misses their old home (and being stuck underground would be even worse). I also kinda don't think that Sans' pictures could depict the characters in hometown in Deltarune since most of them appear the same physically and I think Frisk would recognize clones of their friends. So maybe Sans & Papyrus lived elsewhere and just recently moved to hometown after returning to their original home world? It's a little hard to imagine Papyrus being alright with leaving their old world behind though. Sans too, unless they both knew 'their' versions of the characters. Idk, just spitballing here.
There is one more piece of evidence you missed: Blood. I can't remember the exact scene but in Deltarune Susie mentions that "everyone bleeds". There's also other times she mentions blood. At first glance this is just her being a delinquent but in Undertale we learn that monsters dont bleed. They are magic and turn to dust. So its fair to assume that in Deltarunes world both monsters and humans can bleed which also ties in with monsters in Deltarune not being able to do magic in the light world. Now heres the thing: Sans is the only monster in Undertale that is shown bleeding in his death animation. The popular fan theory prior to Deltarune was that its Ketchup but in this context it could have a completely different meaning. Hope this helps! Bonus theory: Since Papyrus doesnt bleed in Undertale maybe maybe they instead swapped places with their Deltarune counterparts? So Sans is from Deltarune in Undertale and in Deltarune Papyrus is from Deltarune. This actually perfectly explains their different personalitys. Papyrus in Deltarune is a shut in that we've never seen while in Undertale he is very outgoing. Similary Sans was depressed and lazy in Undertale while in Deltarune he even runs his own shop. Honestly im kind of convinced now. It would be an honour if you responded. This seems to fit to well. Edit: Just read some other comments and this theory would kind of solve Papyrus not knowing about the sun in Undertale but Sans knowing about it. Damn. I guess it all depends on how Deltarune Papyrus turns out to be. Still really interesting.
Yeah, there are definitely some additional points I could've addressed that I just didn't have time to for various reasons. The blood one is a weird one because one of the npcs in Hometown acts like it's weird that humans are "made of blood." So the state of monsters and bleeding in DR is very peculiar. Especially when the sprites of Susie bleeding were cut from the game.
It's interesting to me that Sans's theme, "sans." is just. Verbatim the same song from Undertale. Completely. Vaguely makes me wonder if we could see "It's Raining Somewhere Else" or "Song That Might Play When You Fight Sans" again. Maybe even with reworked titles, like "It's Raining Here" or "Song That Plays When You Fight Sans".
0:43 - This might seem obvious, but I just got the cryptic remark/in-joke Sans makes about having to wait "maybe a day... maybe another 2 years" for Kris to meet his brother. I've seen lots of people assume this is Sans being evasive and protective of his brother, but he's literally saying you'll get to meet his brother in chapter 3.
I mean, Deltarune was conceptualized before Undertale, and Toby never stopped wanting to make it, so it’s totally possible that he planned for characters to be directly connect to Deltarune all along.
Something I don’t see many people talk about is how Undertale exists in Deltarune - on Asriel’s computer, as an unfinished game. Given that the Dark Worlds so far are each themed around some mode of escapism (board games, internet, TV), it stands to reason that we may one day have a Video Game themed dark world (oooh meta). We know lightner interactions with dark worlds can have subtle impacts on the real world (messy spare classroom, Berdly’s arm), but we’ve never asked the question: what happens to the real world objects if a Dark Fountain closes… with somebody inside? (Would also match Deltarune’s nostalgic themes of 90’s video game urban legends, like ghosts trapped in game cartridges)
See, personally, I don't think it's literally Undertale- since I really don't see Asriel making a game where he dies and becomes a soulless flower, etc, but I DO think it was still a reference *to* Undertale.
I just want to point out that Sans bleeds in undertale (at least supposing it's not ketchup...) and in deltarune Susie says that "Everyone bleeds" Which is most likely a scare tactic because another monster in the game asks you if it hurts to be made of blood. But there is also unused sprites of Susie bleeding... so maybe certain monsters can bleed, or maybe determination causes them to be able to bleed? I don't know, but it would explain why papyrus doesn't bleed though.
Just imagine if undertale is just a game inside a deltarune, like you can to see a folder ‘EPIC GAME!!!!!!’ Where the final boss have rainbow wings(like asriel) so yeah
**Vague MOTHER 3 SPOILERS** from 9:25 - 10:20. Work on the big Alphys analysis is still underway! For now, enjoy a short vid discussing a popular Undertale and Deltarune theory that's been around since 2018. If you want to see how work is going and help support me, my patreon is at patreon.com/dorked. Feel free to comment to suggest other video topics and/or Inverted Fate tracks! You can read IF at invertedfate.com/chapters and also support me on Ko-Fi at ko-fi.com/invertedfate. Also, let me know how often is cool for OST uploads because I Don't wanna alienate the folks here for video essays. Maybe one a week?
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I still believe sans is a darkner. The end of chapter 2 alludes to darkners coming to the human world, and the EGGs show us that certain objects can go between the light and dark world without changing form. Additionally, I believe he’s most likely related to the boss darkner bloodline (lancer, queen, and king) due to his color scheme of blue and white.
Commenting for the algorithm 🎤
I dig the idea that while getting isekai'd sent Sans on an existential depression, Papyrus thought of it as great escapism. Maybe he saw the underground as a chance to start over, a real magical world where he could become a great and popular hero!
It fits given how, in Undertale, Papyrus is one of the few monsters that couldn't really care less about the surface.
This idea again fits with the idea of Papyrus also being the Knight in Deltarune, as his dreams would no longer be a fantasy in the underground.
He does have a full fleshed dream of driving down a high road in the surface though, which becomes true in the True Pacifist ending...
@@koumei_mei True, but then he immediately goes "but of course, it's only a dream". Everyone else is excited about the prospect of freedom, Papyrus doesn't even see it as something that's likely.
I actually think if Papyrus does end up being the knight, fantasy escapism could be a big part of what motivates him. Like it's easier to connect to and befriend darkners than real people.
You tempt me to crack a joke stating something along the lines of "Papyrus is Marcy from Amphibia" but I don't know how to word it.
"Sans is Sans" truly an Undertale Theory 4 years in the making
It's really worth talking about the fact that not once so far in Deltarune has Sans said "Papyrus". Only "my brother".
well ppl with siblings dont go around saying their sibling’s name as if the others know who they are though.
Right? I don't think it is paps in DR. Toby alludes to it without outright saying it (ie, the trousle of bones being a bonetrousle ref, sans saying "my brother" instead of paps's name, etc). I don't mean to be a gaster person, but it could entirely be him, it could be someone we haven't met, we don't know
@@miriamava9512 I call my siblings by their name. "My sister, (name)" or "(name), my brother" when I talk about them. I call them their names to their faces. You don't call aunts or uncles just aunt/uncle, you call them aunt (name) or uncle (name) because it helps clarify and differentiate. You especially make the effort of including the name when it's someone you haven't met, so they know who you're talking about
@@miriamava9512 sans always mentioned Papyrus by his name in Undertale
@@patrickzantomaster tbh he did say "now my Brother Papyrus" and said my brother first, dunno what this proves but whatever lol
I have a bit of an issue with Sans being from Deltarune, and that's Papyrus. You already went over Papyrus meeting a human in Undertale, but another thing is that he doesn't know what the sun looks like in Undertale until the pacifist ending. If the skeletons are from Deltarune, then how does Papyrus not know what the sun looks like? It makes him seem like a total idiot that doesn't know what basic fundamental objects look like. I guess amnesia could be a possibility but that feels unsatisfying
Yeah, shoot. That's a really good point about the sun. Like, either he was lying about not knowing what the sun is, or it's amnesia, or the theory kinda falls apart. It's not like Papyrus hasn't kept up appearances before (see: King Papyrus ending), but Papyrus absolutely contrasts with all the evidence in Sans' favor.
Adding on to this, the only other major excuses I can think of are Papyrus being a very young child (like 3 or 4) but that feels like infantilizing him, or that only Sans goes from Undertale to Deltarune while Papyrus in Undertale is separate from Papyrus in Deltarune (which brings up a whole slew of questions)
@@Dorked It's not that he doesn't know what the sun is (he mentions the sun several times in the game, including in front of sans in pacifist) it's just that he doesn't know that the floating orb in the sky is the sun
@@radicaldreemurr9972 Yeah, THAT IS TRUE. His date comes to mind. I think there's a possibility that he's faking it, but then the question is, "why would he fake it?" I suppose to fit in with the world and not let on that he and Sans came from a place where monsters lived on the surface in peace, but this relies so heavily on pure speculation with only the slightest tangential evidence that it really isn't conclusive enough. It does raise a lot of bizarre questions about Sans, too.
It might be possible that the brother is the eye thing
Honestly, whilst there is Papyrus not knowing things he should if he came from a surface world, it could just boil down to the sole factor of losing his memory. Hell, we could also say Sans lost his memory as well, but managed to regain bits over time.
Sans still looses memory w any resets
I'm convinced that both of them lost their memory, especially if we believe the theory that Deltarune is in a timeloop. I'm thinking that perhaps at the very end, a group of characters will catch on to this loop and will build that machine we see in Sans's lab and will use it to escape, probably only sans and Papyrus making it though but not without the timeloop happening at the same time, which would wipe their memories. The only reason why they remember anything, at least mostly Sans, is because of the objects they brought over. It could also explain why he "forgot" Toriel's name, even though he could totally recognize her appearance and voice and why Papyrus "forgot" how humans look like despite possibly meeting one in DR.
Personally, the only problem I see with this is that it would have to be very obvious that they jumped world's at the last second, and I think that would be way too much to catch on to if there's like, a fight going on or something, idk. Or, they just lost their memories because jumping worlds is kinda similar to resetting in this universe?? Idk, just throwing my two cents out there.
ok KASSSM
Maybe that's why he has a photo with the caption "Don't forget". Maybe he was aware that he would loose his memories when going to a different world and tried to prevent this.
Maybe he didn't see the sun because he was a shut in in deltarune
An obvious solution that im seeing pointed out in both the comments and on some tumblr blogs for the papyrus flaws in the otherworld sans theory, is that only sans is from another world, and Papyrus is indeed the papyrus from undertale, this not only solves the previously mentioned flaws, but also solves the whole Sans bleeding thing, where Papyrus does not bleed.
Besides, river person said beware the man from another world, not "men", its singular
I've seen that suggested on Tumblr too, but my only issue with it is that if there was a chance to escape Deltarune with the machine, why wouldn't Sans save his brother first? It just feels very selfish I guess. The only thing I can think of that patches this up a bit is that it was Papyrus that saved Sans and he stayed behind, but idk. That would be a little too tragic ig ^^' buuuut it would explain the slight disconnect between the two in Undertale so...maybe that's what happened.
@@snowflake_18 Sans states that he "gave up trying to go back a long time ago", implying that he doesnt really want to be there, that could imply that however he got into undertale, he didnt come there on purpose.
Maybe the machine wasnt how he got there, maybe its how he was trying to get back.
That's a fair point! It does still raise questions about Papyrus and why Sans wouldn't bring his DR brother along on top of... what does that mean for UT Papyrus? UT Papyrus is also fairly mysterious and strange in his own way, but you are right that the riverperson only mentioned a singular man. :p
Didn't they both appear out of nowhere? And wtf happened to UT sans if that's the case? If he's dead then surely someone would have noticed his sudden reappearance and if he doesn't exist surely people would have questioned how papyrus would have a new brother out of nowhere. On top of that it just feels incredible out of character for sans to run away and leave his brother behind. And that doesn't explain a lot of things about both sans and papyrus tbh.
@@moon4236 Again, it may not have been up to sans's control, he mightive been forced to come to undertale, and as for undertale sans, he couldve just swapped places with deltarune sans.
An interesting thing to note about Toby’s different rules statement is that sans can bleed supposedly, with Susie’s statement “everyone bleeds” this could be a better connection to this theory.
The Susie line is such an odd one to me because there are actually sprites of her bleeding that were cut and the bunny kid npc acts like humans being made of blood is weird. Dunno what to make of that.
I mean we do not even know if Sans is actually really bleeding, it also could be ketchup because he is the only Undertale character who is drinking ketchup.
@@shinolampthe ketchup gag was a one time thing, even then it doesn’t make sense for him to “leak” ketchup when he’s hit.
@@Soda_B I always assumed he was hiding ketchup packets under his clothes to snack on later
Then, I wonder why papyrus doesn't bleed when we kill him? Hmm...
I can't believe you managed to go the whole video without saying "But hey, THAT'S just a theory!"
I guess something else that'd be interesting to bring up is Sans' Ice-E crossword; Ice-E is practically nonexistent outside of Sans' crossword puzzle in Undertale (His only appearance is specifically through Sans), but he's much more prevalent in DeltaRune, being the mascot of a pizza place (This point might be a bit iffy, but the Ice-E puzzle appealing to kids does line up pretty well with the whole pizza place thing)
Pretty great video overall, this topic's definitely an oldie, but I still enjoyed its analysis
SHOOT, ICE-E. I can't believe I forgot to mention that. xD In my defense, I had a limited window to put this out due to the algorithm being angy.
Totally random but I wonder if we’ll get an Ice-E dark world. If we do maybe it’ll be where we meet Dess?
Well, my current interpretation is that Gaster is actually a Deltarune character that was foreshadowed in Undertale, and with his implied connection to the skelebros, maybe…
YEAH, I think the FUN events were 100% setup for Deltarune. I think it explains a lot about the majority of them, barring a few smaller things like the pizza and fridge calls.
It's likely that, with him splitting across time and space, Gaster is both an Undertale character and a Deltarune character while being the same person in both games
I'm really curious to know how Papyrus will be like in Deltarune because if your really think about it, the majority of what makes Papyrus' character revolves around the Underground. Sure maybe this core cheerful personality would be present as well as his funny quirks and insecurities but I wonder how he'll be like in the context of Deltarune. Like the only reason he wants to be in the Royal Guard is because he wants to be popular and make many friends, but there is no Royal Guard in Deltarune. The only reason he makes spaghetti (and other pasta dishes) is because Undyne didn't want him to join the guard because she thought his kindness would get him killed but she still wanted to help him and inspire him to do something else, but with no Royal Guard there is no making pasta for Papyrus. His battle body was made for a costume party and Papyrus uses it as his main "armor" to join the Guard, but with no Royal Guard there may not be no battle boy so Papyrus would be wearing normal clothes (or his cool dude outfit). Not to mention that with no Mettaton in deltarune (at least not the Mettaton we are familiar with) that means no MTT products that Papyrus uses. I'm just saying that Papyrus will not be the same Papyrus we all know and admire and love, either he'll probably be younger or, and let's pray it don't happen, he ends up like his concept design were he is a fedora wearing neckbeard with zero redeeming qualities (We all know Toby be reusing his old concept art like how Sans got his visor for the concept art when running the game spot from the Xbox version of undertale).
Oh no, Concept Papyrus has got to be one of the fandom's worst nightmares O_o'
@@snowflake_18 Nyeh heh heh M'human
I suspect DR Papyrus will be a foil to Kris if he becomes an important character/is the knight. If he IS the Roaring Knight, that means that he'd be going around and opening fountains and I could see it being a means of escapism for him because of his lonely life and perhaps being being too shy at this point in time to go out in socialize and it being easier to bond with darkners. Maybe it's the whole new town thing, too. Him not being sure how to fit in/missing where he was before.
I dont think papyrus is appearing in deltarune bruh
@@sleekyissleepy His voice blip is in the game and he has a goner maker response, so there's that.
I'm gonna write this speculation ramble here before I forget, but basically I'm on board with the Deltarune timeloop theory, despite how tragic that theory might be, it holds some water mostly because of the talk of "fate" and our actions not mattering. Anyways, I think that at some point towards the end, some characters will catch on to the time loop and will try to make their escape to another world (Undertale) by building the machine we see in Sans's lab. However, only Sans and Papyrus make their escape at the last minute before the loop happens and they don't get out unscathed, their memories are mostly wiped. The only reason why they remember anything at all is because of the objects they brought over with them. I honestly think Sans's is the one who remembers the most, not because of any power, but because he seems to have more deep bonds and fond memories of his time in Deltarune while Papyrus was mostly a shut-in who will likely only meet Kris once or very few times. Sans's has already seen Kris twice, and it's not a stretch to say they'll meet again in the next chapters, so that could explain why he knows what a human looks like. It's also possible that Sans's really did forget Toriel's name, but knows's how she looks like (photo album perhaps?) and vaguely remembers her voice, hence why he connects with her so quickly and makes that promise with little hesitance. It's also possible, but a little dumb, that jumping worlds works similar to resetting in regards to how much memory a character can retain, and maybe they made the jump too soon without seeing the end fate of DR. That would probably prompt Sans (and Paps if he's the second one) to find a way to fix the machine and ultimately give up when proven impossible.
Papyrus is the one that feels like an odd piece to the puzzle, especially since I'm claiming that he remembers the least, but I don't think this infantilizes him. The thing is, he DOES remember, he just doesn't have many important ties to Deltarune that makes him miss his old home. In fact, I think he sees Undertale as a fresh start, somewhere he can finally go out and be friends with everyone, a magical place! I also think both brothers are keeping these memories to themselves, since there is a slight disconnect between the bros in the game (King Papyrus ending for ref). He also admitted to having nightmares (possibly the DR ending?) in the game and hints to being aware of resets, at least Frisk having "a power" to undo their actions. I know that some people suggest that Sans is the only one who jumped worlds and Papyrus is from Undertale, but the Snowdin Shopkeeper literally confirms that BOTH of them showed up so, that theory doesn't make sense (unless y'all wanna argure that her memories got altered somehow asldkfjlakdjf).
The only hole I see with this ramble is that, if they made this jump, then what happened to the original UT Sans and Paps? Did they literally just get replaced or swapped? Spoof out of existance?? Did they ever even exist XD I could ramble more but I think this is long enough- thoughts anyone?
Ah....somehow I forgot the weird Gaster connections. In my opinion, if the skelebros are connected to him in any way, then those connections are likely with Deltarune Gaster, not Undertale Gaster. If they were connected to UT Gaster, then that would mean that he originiated from DR too or he was personally jumping worlds to fulfill his Royal Scientist role and somehow got "shattered" but exists in DR....but that convolutes everything! So, imo, the bros are related to DR Gaster and not UT's. A little more can be speculated if you wanna believe the Dadster theory but uuuuuh, I'll just cut it here lmao
The idea of some selective amnesia for BOTH brothers I can definitely get more on board with than just Papyrus. My issue with it just being Papyrus who forgets is that it'd put more importance on Sans again which is just such a big thing in the fandom. But these are really interesting observations and the whole "did they replace other versions of themselves" is certainly a good question.
Another point. The paper found in Sans's secret room (don't forget) has 3 people drawn on it. The Legend has 3 heroes...
Whats crazy interesting about time loop theory is that, if its true, we could very well have to replay the game multiple times, but with more characters being aware of the situation.
I've always had issues with this theory just because of how.. retcon-y it feels, and how many details don't line up with that in Undertale, like you pointed out. Obviously there's a ton of meta jokes around him in Deltarune, but it just didn't feel right to me. Not to mention, the narrator's meta jokes feel like a narrator, I'm a firm believer that Deltarune has no in-world narrator like Chara in Undertale.
One theory is do think could hold fruition though, is that perhaps both Sanses made a connection with each other. Think about it, the theme for Gaster - the goner maker guy who I'm 99% sure is Gaster - is called _ANOTHER_ HIM, while Gaster's theme in Undertale is called "him" in the files. If there's two Gasters, why not two Sanses? Maybe they saw each other once, for how long and if they even spoke we don't know, but that machine in Sans's lab still has a very unknown purpose. Perhaps that had something to do with it? Hell, maybe Gaster is the only one who actually figured out anything about Deltarune, and simply relayed some info from Sans! But this is all just speculation at this point, I do think we'd need more evidence to reach a sound conclusion.
Yeah, the idea of there being communication between the two worlds is a neat one, too! It does raise a lot of bizarre questions about UT sans still, but even the "other world" theory is not foolproof.
I think the Gaster in Deltarune wouldn’t shatter himself across time and space. Because why would he; As in Undertale he fell into the core but in Deltarune that just wouldn’t make sense for him to build it. As monsters in Deltarune live on the surface making other types of energy more possible and making a giant thermoelectric generator less practical. So the only real way he could have been shattered is if shattering one character shatters all other versions.
Gaster. Gaster. Gaster.
He is included constantly even when it makes negative sense.
@@pustota7254 Yes, the important character is important. If you can't deal with it, you might as well stop playing Deltarune.
@@nethowarrior3294 HOW IS GASTER IMPORTANT???
what comes to mind for me is sans' line "Don't tell that to the other sans's" during his fight, it could just mean the sans's from other timelines, but it could also mean an entirely other sans.
wow, there were a lot more point for the theory then i initially thought
i am kind of confused about papyrus though. if sans originated in deltarune and came to undertale, that would explain how he "showed up one day", but that also implies that papyrus came at the same time. and the gap between personalities in games is very weird. one thing we know for sure about papyrus's character is that he looks up to undyne very much and will do anything to capture a human to impress her. whats strange is he doesn't seem to be like that at all in deltarune. in deltarune, hes a shut in who doesn't see people often. i would accept something along the lines of he had a change in heart after he went to undertale and met undyne, and aspired to be like her, but in deltarune undyne is a very similar person. she still has the same personality and ideals, with the police instead of the royal guard. surely, he had heard or even met her before. which would either mean he had no clue of undynes existence in deltarune which means he even more of a shut in then we thought, something else is going on that is completely different then this theory, or, most horrifically, he never looked up to undyne. he wanted to enter the royal guard for his own reasons, and was putting up an act. this seems so impossible, so out of character for him, and saying that he just acts the way he is in all of undertale is crazy. but, remember who his brother is. his brother, who has knowledge of different worlds, the power to kill a human hundreds of times, who had perhaps know about a man who was scattered across time and space, and came off as a goof who knew nothing put pranks. perhaps, the biggest deception that he could possibly put up, the one he has been for all of undertale, was his brother. what if they were both like that, and papyrus has some other goals. and that concludes my stupid theory with a million plot holes that i came up with on the spot! thanks you, thank you.
wow
at first that was a question to myself and it evolved into an entire theory
You could run with it being kind of like... the more fantastical world of UT made him feel more comfortable opening up, or mayhaps he has character development between now and the end of DR that results in the Papyrus we know in UT. There's so many angles and interpretations and the fact that we don't have a complete story for DR really makes it hard to form definitive angles. That can be a lot of fun tho!
If we go by the Roaring Knight Papyrus theory, it's possible Papyrus will only meet Kris within the Dark World, and consequently not recognize them as a human but simply as another lightner.
Or, as trope-y as it is, Papyrus having forgotten about Deltarune via some amnesia could genuinely be a way of using the "Forgettable" line in a different way.
Alternatively, Undertale's Papyrus is just _really_ good at acting like he doesn't know things. He does seem allude to knowing about "endings" and that we can reset a couple times.
Oh my god, "forgettable" not as in "it's easy to forget about him" but as in "he easily forgets" would be such a good pun and exactly what Toby would do-
Some of the inconsistencies with Papyrus could be explained as Papyrus and Sans lying.
YEEEEEEEAAAAAAHHH
This is something I've been convinced of ever since chapter 2 dropped, and while there are definitely some set backs (Papyrus as a whole is the biggest detriment to the theory), I still feel it would explain so much of Sans' character, his dialog and actions, and I'm glad I got a video I can share with people that lays down the evidence in an organized manner, thank you very much!!
:) You're welcome! And please do share. It really helps the video and my channel out, especially when this month has been pretty hard, performancewise.
@@Dorked I will def share, your analysis are some of my favorite, feel very grounded and well thought out, last Mew Mew one was great!!
When ever sans says “I’ve never seen you before” or whatever. He winks.
Honestly, this is a theory I really do like, despite the couple of gaps. For a while I’ve been entertaining the idea of, as a bit of fan service (not that kind), that there’s going to be something of a subplot where Toby delves into Sans/the skele-bros’ origins, even if it doesn’t directly connect to the main Dark World plot. It certainly _seems_ like what he’s getting at, after adding the “Don’t Forget” note to Sans’ secret room.
As for Paps, maybe _only_ Delta Sans was brought over, while Delta Papyrus wasn’t? Certainly dark, but… considering Undertale Sans’ outlook on his situation, I wouldn’t rule something like it out, personally. I can definitely agree that Deltarune being revealed as a traditional prequel would be a bit iffy by contrast, considering Deltarune is Toby’s longtime passion project, and how he wants people to view it separately from Undertale.
And, yeah: Paps plain not showing up, or having amnesia in Undertale would both kind of be a cop-out, in my honest opinion (plus, the latter might raise unfortunate implications if his amnesiac personality is different from his “original” one).
Sidenote: The Papyrus Knight theory is actually another one I really like! Especially since it’s always come across to me that Papyrus was Toby’s favorite of the two bros, I feel like everyone’s favorite Fox has got something special planned for ol’ Paps. At this point, I might be buying Chapter 3-5 solely to see what the heck Paps turns out to be like! (Okay that’s a joke but still ;D)
-As for whether or not I’m hoping he has a fedora… that’s another story.-
I think the best part about Papyrus Knight theory is that if done well, it could really give Papyrus a rich character arc where he goes from being lonely and perhaps a bit jaded to really blossoming and becoming the really positive and heartfelt character we see in UT. I think it's an interpretation of the character that could really lead to something great, but we'll have to see what Toby has in store. Papyrus and Kris being foils would be neat, too.
@@Dorked Yeah, exactly! Papyrus would basically evolve from acting out wish fulfillment of being a “Knight” in the Dark World, to actually _becoming_ someone who acts for the good of everyone ^_^
Whatever comes out of Delta Papyrus, I really hope we do get something good, and it doesn’t just amount to a troll moment. Even if it doesn’t wind up being part of the main story, I think Toby has a chance to go with several, really cool options for everyone’s favorite COOL DUDE :D
Just a reminder despite the fan interpretation papyrus makes several references to other timeliness for example in a pacifist ending post content papyrus says "I'm still not in the royal gaurd this truly is the worst possible timeline"
Very true! I'll see if I can slide that into the followup video, along with him knowing about Sans' baggage. :p There were some things I left out like Ice-E and the whole sun thing so I do wanna touch on a few other lil' details.
Great video! This theory has been in the back of my mind for a while, and I'm glad to see more videos covering it.
My best guess is that the sans we see in Undertale IS from Deltarune's world somehow. It's the only thing that really makes sense to me, since sans says numerous times that he wants to go back somewhere, but that it isn't the surface either. I just can't think of any other places that aren't located in the underground or the surface in Undertale, which leads me to believe it has to be a different universe like Deltarune. Just my guess though, and we'll see more with more information.
As for Papyrus fitting into all this? Who knows LOL
Yeah, Papyrus really is the biggest headscratcher. We know so little about how he factors into Deltarune, but then you have the UT pacifist ending as another commenter pointed out, where he (presumably) doesn't immediately recognize the sun. Unless he's lying, but that might be a bit odd.
@@Dorked And someone ELSE pointed out he pretends not to know what a lab is... Like, how much should we look into... Huh???
i feel like traveling between the worlds could've messed with Papyrus' memory of the deltarune world and not Sans' (maybe because he's the smart one of the two)
@@EnigmaLuigi Hey, now, Papyrus is a lot smarter than people give him credit for. :P Granted, I did a whole video on that.
@@Dorked Listen, i not saying papyrus is dumb or stupid. in fact, he's my favorite character, but lets be real, sans is definitely the smarter of the brothers
i think sans's dialogues in undertale pretty much confirm that he and papyrus came from a parallel universe. That this universe is deltarune doesn't seem very feasible to me, like you have pointed out in your video. I think this is to introduce the concept of alternative universes and that people don't get confused thinking that deltarune was the same world as undertale (although there was a lot of confusion even so)
anyway, i'm a big fan of the theory of two gasters, one from undertale and one from deltarune, and it seems to me that this could be a more logical connection between both games than 'oh look the skelebros come from deltarune but they have amnesia lol'
Yeah, it's possible they could be from another world entirely! We just don't know. The clamgirl stuff is what is most perplexing, I think. TOBY, WHAT YOU DOIN'...
I don’t think you should be so quick to dismiss the possibility that Sans is a Darkner. After all, Sans displays numerous characteristics that set him apart from the rest of the monsters in the Underground. He bleeds. His death doesn’t make the kill counter increase. He lacks an overhead health bar. He looks nothing like his brother. Sans being a Darkner can account for all of these facts.
While we have yet to learn how a Darkner could manage to persist outside of a Dark World and beyond the range of a Dark Fountain, that doesn’t make it completely impossible. After all, one of UT’s general rules was that only humans can achieve high levels of determination, yet Undyne the Undying eventually comes along as an exception to that rule.
if. sans is a darkner which means darkner rules somehow dont apply to him, what object do you think could he possibly be an embodiment of.
My problem is like... I feel like while the bleeding thing is there, and the teleport doors, there's no reason to assume he can't just be a monster skeleton. Siblings can inherit traits from either parent, so it could be that Sans takes more after one and Papyrus takes after the other. I do think there's definitely a connection between Sans and the dark world, but we just know too little for the Sans darkner theory to be likely based on current information. Later aspects of the game could change that! It's hard to say.
@@Dorked While siblings can look dissimilar from one another due to inheriting different combinations of traits from either parent, what makes Sans and Papyrus suspicious is that they’re the only monster relatives in UT that are like this. All members of both the Snowdrake family and the Dreemurr family look very similar to one another, and they even use the same exact bullets when attacking. Yet this is not the case with Sans and Papyrus. They’re opposites in virtually every way, which makes me quite skeptical of their supposed biological relation to one another.
While the “Sans is a Darkner” theory would definitely benefit from having more evidence provided later down the line, I still feel pretty confident about it rn. But we’ll just have to wait and see what happens…
@@amndmirk I think he might be like Ralsei, in the sense that he doesn’t appear to be based on any one object.
@@psychopomp4135 To be fair, though, that's likely done for simplicity's sake to avoid having to make a ton of unique encounters. Catty and Catti look p. distinct from each other, as do QC and the Snowdin Shopkeeper, who are also sisters. I dont' think there are really enough examples to make a case for them not being biologically related at this time.
Halfbreadchaos is awesome!
They are! Lots of really unique and insightful videos that always give me something new to appreciate.
Another follower of the theorist
don't have much to say about the theory, but it's also notable that papyrus's text barks are also in deltarune's sound files!
Yep! No portrait for now, but I could see it being for spoiler reasons? Like he could be noticeably younger looking.
There’s like only one hole in this theory and it’s the fact that we still don’t know if monsters bleed in DT or if they “fall down”
My biggest fear with DR is it having an unfulfilling ending. Only one ending, the mother 3 connections, it scares me greatly
I kinda do wonder, it does seem that so far everything is leading to Sans being the same we meet in Undertale but the most that breaks this theory is Papyrus.
But what if, Papyrus was the same and the reason he seems to not remember anything is that is his way to, as they say, keep a low profile? In his own way of course, which leads to him not sounding very smart at times but also contradicting himself other times because he probably too excited about something or he a bit too honest for his own good.
for a long time, i have had a theory that gaster accidentally found the deltarune world (why he isn’t in undertale when we play it) and brought in the player that controlled frisk into kris to seal the dark worlds. what are your thoughts? it has evidence, it just makes sense in my eyes, but feel free to point out loopholes.
It's really hard to say! With Gaster being torn across time and space, there could be a hint of simultaneity, especially with funky stuff like DR's three saves having slight differences.
@@Dorked The saves have slight differences? O_o
Gonna have to look into that...
I've always found it interesting how Sans just suddenly appears/moves into the town as soon as all the dark world stuff starts, it seems like he has to have some kind of ties to it. he just kinda appeared in Undertale one day too, maybe this is just something he does? hop between worlds to make his new home?
something else is that papyrus doesnt recognize the sun at the end of true pacifist but sans seemingly does. this could be explained by sans having an interest in astronomy but the fact that he has that interest despite living underground is something to note in itself.
sans' abilities all seem to be related to space as well (teleportation, gravity control) which makes him the perfect foil to our time powers. he pranks us across time AND space after all. it would make a lot of sense thematically if he was the man from another world
I think that one of the big plot twists of Deltarune will be that the Papyrus of Deltarune will not travel with Sans to Undertale(Or maybe die), that would be the reason that sans bleeds and papyrus doesn't, and would justify the dialogs of Sans during the end of the pacifist route saying that he can't save him. Also I don't think that Papyrus is the knight, I think he's the man behind the tree, being foreshadowed if i'm not mistaken in a piece of Undertale merchandice.
I think that maybe if the Deltarune theory is true, then both brothers are from Deltarune BUT due to some misunderstandings, they assume the other is originally from Undertale. They both still see eachother and brothers, but they both might try to keep a facade of being originally from Undertale. We've already seen Papyrus do a facade for when people are around vs when he's alone
I know the man who speaks in hands was assigned to gaster by the fandom but it seems just as likely it's about sans too: his face never changes, which leaves body language to decipher his emotions. He also uses his hands to direct bone attacks, unlike papyrus who stays still during battle.
AYO I NEVER THOUGHT OF THAT LMAOO
FINALLY SOMEONE TALKED ABT PAPYRUS’ ABSENCE IN THE GAMEEES
also if you knock again after ch.2 it says ( faintly, faintly, a trousle, growing further away.) which is worrying
Intrtesting detail to support the fact that characters from undertale might have originated in deltarune is the fact that so far, some of the characters from deltarune appear as gaster followers in undertale. While every character hasnt been introduced yet, its still a possible connection. This would also explain why characters such as monster kid and donut man appears as regular people too, because the gaster followers they resemble are not from the same universe. This also connects to the flower bird thing that resides in the library in Deltarune, but not in undertale. Its an intresting connection...
Maybe the reason there is a disconnect is because sans is the only one with the ability to remember besides flowey who we haven’t seen and the player. Even in undertale papyrus never once mentions anything about the past before they went to Snowdin. It’s very possible that the only thing papyrus knows is that sans is his brother and he knows this because it is consistent across all timelines. So the change in timeline may represent a younger papyrus or maybe one that’s the same age who just is rattled from the timeline shift
Is there really any solid evidence that suggests sans "remembers things" outside of fandom slop? Geniune question. I know he says different things after each time you die when fighting against him, but when you actually reset the game and restart, nothing he does really changes.
Nice video! (also, I loved your Sans voice lol) 2:57
I DID THE BEST I COULD. xD I had to pitch it down because my natural voice just... isn't masculine enough to do him justice.
the feeling of watching my favorite undertale au creator repeatedly reference my favorite undertale/deltarune theorist is a great one indeed.
in all honesty, somehow wasn't expecting dorked to know halfbreadchaos, and it makes me happy that dorked does know them
HBC is really cool and I appreciate the wide variety of topics they cover. They and Andrew Cunningham always turn out great stuff.
6:58 In Ch1 he does say that he befriended Toriel LAST NIGHT, so this probably means that they didn not really know each other properly until that night.
I'm glad to see more people discussing this theory, I think it's pretty underrated for so much sense it makes and I'd really love if turn out real, I think it's likely. Anyway, I don't think him not calling tori by name is good evidence against the theory, let's be honest, it would be really weird for you to walk up to someone who doesn't know you and just call her by name I think. sans is just really good at keeping up appearances. I don't think sans coming from deltarune means that deltarune itself is going to have a bittersweet ending, It is possible that deltarune has a happy ending but sans left deltarune before seeing the ending because the situation was REALLY bad, so he doesn't know if everything turned out well or not and that can be really interesting but this is just an idea
It'd be kinda weird to go back if the world was ending. I mean maybe he took the facf that he wasn't able to as proof that it really did when he actually wasn't sure after doing it, that's something of a possibility.
ngl i think at minimum sans came from deltarune somehow. he's the *only* person to share an exact theme song with everyone else. Toriel and her house have completely remade themes, meanwhile when you go to Sans's in chapter 2 sans. is the exact same as it was in undertale.
Hi Dorked! Really quick comment but I must say that I wished you put a spoiler notification for Mother 3 at 9:46. [MOTHER 3 SPOILERS] The roaring and what happens at the end of Mother 3 are huge mirrors of each other, I feel. It seems that making a simple statement of "DR might be like the ending of Mother 3" can allude to the entirety of Mother 3's ending for someone who hasn't played. I'm so sorry for being a concerned nerd about this but I know that there are a few people out there who haven't played Mother 3 and it is honestly one of my favorite games out there. It certainly has played as inspiration for Toby's games. Thank you for reading and I really enjoyed this look into this matter. I always just thought of it as "well it has to be the same sans, certainly?". It might go deeper than that for sure.
THAT'S A GOOD POINT, and I wish I had the foresight to do that. Admittedly, I kinda had to get the video out fast partially becuase my channel hasn't been doing very well this month and partially because I've been on a bit of a crunch due to other things going on IRL and with other projects. >.o maybe if I do closed captions I'll try to address that, at least. I've just got a busy weekend.
If Sans really is from Deltarune, that would make the premise of Inverted Fate even funnier, because then he'd have been ripped from not just one world, but two!
Maybe Sans is Sans, but Papyrus isn't from Deltarune. I can see Sans forming a bond with the AU version of his brother. Especially if he's the reason AU Sans is gone.
This is a lot less contrived than any of the other explanations. And given that Sans went and got himself stranded, it make sense that he'd want to leave his original brother out of whatever experiment or gamble landed him in Undertale.
Also, Sans is the only monster who bleeds in Undertale, and Susie and Lancer in Chapter 1 mention that everyone has blood (in the part where Lancer brings a bucket so that when they fight the blood falls there).
Something that sticks out big for me is that we still haven’t seen muffet in the light world at all. Haven’t seen anyone talk about it
None of the kickstarter monsters will appear. Samael already asked Toby.
@@Dorked makes sense I guess.
Oh my fucking god I just got the eggs husband joke it’s been years since chapter 2 and I’m just getting it now I’m so dumb
You mentioned Sans saying he's new in town and that 'new' can be relative, but I've also seen the point brought out that Sans could just be lying that he's new in town, as a way of testing if 'Kris' is the one talking with him, or someone else.
That said, I've already been inclined to the 'UT!Sans is from Deltarune' theory.
Also as for the Papyrus issue. Lately I've been going back to the 'Papyrus is Gaster, but Gaster himself forgot who he is' theory. I probably need to watch a let's play of DR again to check I'm not misremembering, but if I do recall correctly, Sans has not yet referred to Papyrus by name, and has ONLY referred to him as 'my little brother.' The biggest indication it IS Papyrus is being told you hear 'the distant trousling of bones' when you check the skelebros' door. So I wonder if being so weird about mentioning Papyrus' name, and no one else in Hometown seeming aware of Papyrus' existence, could be foreshadowing?
That said! It speaks volumes that my biggest piece of evidence for this specific theory is an overwhelming lack of evidence about Papyrus overall. It also becomes extremely complicated when you try to make it co-exist with 'Gaster was originally from Undertale'. Not impossible, but there are almost certainly simpler explanations to both.
i love sands from nutdealer great video
Eyy, thanks! ...Though I wonder if he deals actual nuts or peanuts, which are in fact not actually a nut. Same with coconuts... I think. I'll have to double check.
im sad that i got to know this voice because of von dohj ;-;
now ill just imagine her talking in these type of videos like its her hobby XD
Haha. xD Gosh, now you have me picturing Dohj vlogging about the Heat Haze Series and getting into online fan wars. Incredible. She'd totally use an alt account.
@@Dorked Now I can't stop imagining Dohj playing Pokemon Crystal 💀
I think it would be funny if sans in the dark world just looks the exact same because he's too lazy to think of a alternative outfit
Well, that's actually quite an interesting theory, and I really love how you explained it! (If it doesn't work out, at least there's the IF!Sans Backstory...)
Those who didn't for some reason, check out the new Inverted Fate Chapter! ua-cam.com/video/Ctx1mYH1ix4/v-deo.html
And the previous, which has the Sans backstory I hope people who watched this would like ua-cam.com/video/Gl-OnQLv8bc/v-deo.html
If Sans is a fragment of Gaster or related to him, it could lead to a shared memory phenomenon. Sans could be different people in both games but recall some memories of each other.
Wanting to go "home" in Undertale isn't quite explained by this though.
My immediate thought wrt Sans not remembering us in Deltarune whilst we (the player, not Kris) remember him is that for him the chronology is backwards. Sans is experiencing DR before UT. Doesn't necessarily explain Papyrus having never seen a human, but honestly it doesn't feel very strongly like papyrus traveled between worlds (at least whilst remembering). Could be a case of Sans getting a new Papyrus, or it could be an amnesia situation.
I *REALLY* love the point about amnesia you've made.
Many fan-theories fall into the pitfall of making "amnesia/memory loss" the knot that helps the theory not fall apart.
"Because the amnesia just coincidentally took the memories that'd make my theory fit, while it coincidentally didn't take the memories that make up most of my theory" is how Ifear most of it.
Meanwhile you seem aware of that, as you mentioned the possibility shortly but called it unsatisfying. YES, exactly, it's very convenient and seems like a duct-tape on something just to force it into fitting together.
With there still being 5 (or more?) chapters of Deltarune coming, it's very possible we still miss puzzle pieces that'd make these fit together more rationally than just some contrived amnesia.
And I really respect that you noticed that and didn't fall into this pitfall. Earned my subscription.
What if Undertale is a darkworld in which everybody is stuck? What if when Angel's Heaven is not prevented, Undertale happens? The more I see theories the more I'm convinced that Undertale will be a "subchapter" of Deltarune, a parallel world or just a substory of the real bigger world of Deltarune.
i think that everybody is overthinking it and sans just has a portal to another universe casually in his house
3:50 I would’ve said the $?$! Squad.
I MEAN, I COULD'VE. But Lancer fanclub was what I picked in my first run. xD
Maybe just Sans is from undertale, maybe at some point he decided to go to deltarune's timeline and that's why papyrus hasn't appeared yet, cuz sans is trying to get him to deltarune, idk just though about that
Who knows
Amazing video as always!
Toby really did raise a lot of speculations making Sans in deltarune look identical to his Undertale counterpart. Is this only to troll us? Or is there something more to this? Can't wait for next chapters to learn more about this and see how right or wrong all the theories will turn out to be.
Keep up the great work!
probably too lazy to change the Sprite
@@gabrielblanchard3081 Yeaaah, definitely...
pov u came here after the summer newsletter came out😭
great video! really got me thinking
Always happy to inspire that kinda thought. c:
Oh! I’m glad you watch HalfBreadChaos! He’s got a great channel! Gruffet the spider might also be a good one to watch.
Oh, I haven't heard of them. Thanks for the recommendation! :)
Sometimes i wonder if Papyrus actually doesn't exist in Deltarune and Sans is just pranking us. I wonder what Papyrus's job is going to be. Aside from that I wish that we learn more about Hometown's history in future chapters. In Undertale we don't really know much about the history of the underground apart from what's relevant to the main plot. A few more details about the history of the places there and the pasts of the characters would be nice.
I think he does exist, given the steam profile and goner maker, plus his v oice being in the game. As for the town's history, I'd certainly love to know more. It's very cozy.
One of the most interesting things to notice about Sans and Papyrus: they're named after inanimate objects. Just like Spamton is a spambot, Sans and Papyrus personify fonts
This doesn't mean Sans and Papyrus are literally Darkners, but it does give interesting implications that they may have been created in the early stages of creating Deltarune, before the basic concept of Darkners was fully completed.
There might or might not have been a moment when Toby thought that Sans and Papyrus would be Darkners or monsters while the rest of the Light World was a boring world of humans that had forced all the Darkners / monsters out of their world, and I guess the skeleton brothers escaped after a long time or something? I don't know. All I know is the lore of Deltarune does not look like that any more
Plot twist, Prunsel replaces Papyrus and it's just playing an mp3 of trouseling bones
Y’know, it’s entirely possible that Papyrus might just be a baby in Deltarune. And when Sans moved dimensions, Papyrus was still a baby.
It would explain the discrepancy, without ruining Papyrus’ character in Undertale. Those are my thoughts on it.
I dunno, I can't unhear the phrase "I'm with you in the dark" sneaking into the Snowdin Town theme, which really sets off a red flag for me given how frequently the songs from Deltarune have bits of Don't Forget show up here and there. Then again, I'm not an expert in music and I never see anyone else mention it in their Sans world-hopping theories. Is it just me? Am I hearing things?
I’m very pleased to see this video, as this was one of my favourite fan theories along with the sans and papyrus are the pieces of gaster. I think the latter theory has multiple holes though as I believe sans did not write the bad grammar lab entries
Just poppin in a little comment to please the higher powers of the youtube algorithm, I wish I had something good or inetesting to add but there's not much I have to say other than great vid as always and man, I miss papyrus. That "forgettable" description always hits me so different
I think he is a separate skeleton but one that knows about the existence of parallel versions of himself and the "player". Like how the Undertale one knows about saving and stuff. He sees the Kris and the player behind and figures you've probably met another version of him at some point.
Deltarune's fountains and Gods thing really reminds me of Mother 3 where they talk about powerful dragons and magic important needles.
*[SPOILERS]* In Mother 3 the apocalypse happened but fortunately they didn't die.
Comparing Deltarune and Mother 3 has surprising similarities where this predecessor games are completely different and new but still connected with the world building.
I'm a fan of Jaru's crackpot version of this theory in which Papyrus dies and Sans leaves the Deltarune world behind with the help of the Lancer Fan Club after the Roaring begins.
8:17
Year late and probably already commented, but for Papyrus not recognising Kris, maybe he’d only see them in the Dark World, therefore not associating the two together.
(Maybe he’ll refer to Kris as Lightner and not Human as being a human isn’t as much as a big deal in Deltarune)
PAPS could have had a form of memory wipe after he and sans were thrown into undertale from deltarune.
Also keep in mind if PAPS and sans did just "show up" in undertale post deltarune and PAPS is the knight then sans IS definitely helping him and would explain why they BOTH just showed up there post deltarune.
and IF PAPS has forgotten what a human looks like then its safe to say he's NOT a good person, he's probably a NICE GUY like "flowey" in deltarune and the reason he got his memory wiped is because he got his [butt] handed to him HARD by kris and susie and/ or ralsei.
which would turn him from "THE KNIGHT" [the bad guy with a fedora] into "THE GREAT PAPYRUS" [the lovable goof].
just my 2 cents.
also this would make mat pat right about the sans is ness theory fyi, since nobody knew about deltarune back then he guessed it was ness but everything he says still holds up if you put sans in ness's place.
One point I saw in JaruJaruJ's video (he made a similar, more expanded theory after you) is that Deltarune Papyrus is probably dead, and Sans went to the Undertale world alone, perhaps BECAUSE Papyrus died. I think this is the most likely reason in general for Sans to wish to go to another world, be it to find a method to save him or escape the calamity that got Papyrus killed. It opens up the question of what the hell happened to Undertale Sans and that... well maybe Jaru himself can explain his thoughts on the matter. I enjoyed how he unraveled it in his video.
what if the Underground is a dark world, since the warp door only shows up in one? would that imply that the "powerful spell" that "trapped everyone inside" could have connection with it?
Wait what causes Papyrus to call himself a brutal guy?
If you spare undyne but have killed other monsters.
6:45 Oh huh. I just realized you casually referred to the Snowdin Shop Bunny as QC. I was so confused for a second before I realized duh, if her café in Deltarune is called "QC's", of course her name is QC, and that should carry over to Undertale!
I think something with the Roaring will happen and Sans and Papyrus could escape somehow
In the Genocide route, Sans tells you to keep pretending to be a human, implying that he has an established idea of what a human is, and genocidal maniac does not fit.
Maybe this is already disproven, but couldn't it be that Sans remembers Deltarune's world, while Papyrus doesn't because he was too young at the time? Sans might have more years on Papyrus than we realize, and thus the two have been in Snowdin for most of Papyrus' life but Sans remembers and misses their old home (and being stuck underground would be even worse).
I also kinda don't think that Sans' pictures could depict the characters in hometown in Deltarune since most of them appear the same physically and I think Frisk would recognize clones of their friends. So maybe Sans & Papyrus lived elsewhere and just recently moved to hometown after returning to their original home world?
It's a little hard to imagine Papyrus being alright with leaving their old world behind though. Sans too, unless they both knew 'their' versions of the characters. Idk, just spitballing here.
Decent analysis video! Thanks for uploading!
There is one more piece of evidence you missed: Blood. I can't remember the exact scene but in Deltarune Susie mentions that "everyone bleeds". There's also other times she mentions blood. At first glance this is just her being a delinquent but in Undertale we learn that monsters dont bleed. They are magic and turn to dust.
So its fair to assume that in Deltarunes world both monsters and humans can bleed which also ties in with monsters in Deltarune not being able to do magic in the light world.
Now heres the thing: Sans is the only monster in Undertale that is shown bleeding in his death animation. The popular fan theory prior to Deltarune was that its Ketchup but in this context it could have a completely different meaning. Hope this helps!
Bonus theory: Since Papyrus doesnt bleed in Undertale maybe maybe they instead swapped places with their Deltarune counterparts? So Sans is from Deltarune in Undertale and in Deltarune Papyrus is from Deltarune.
This actually perfectly explains their different personalitys. Papyrus in Deltarune is a shut in that we've never seen while in Undertale he is very outgoing. Similary Sans was depressed and lazy in Undertale while in Deltarune he even runs his own shop.
Honestly im kind of convinced now. It would be an honour if you responded. This seems to fit to well.
Edit: Just read some other comments and this theory would kind of solve Papyrus not knowing about the sun in Undertale but Sans knowing about it. Damn. I guess it all depends on how Deltarune Papyrus turns out to be. Still really interesting.
Yeah, there are definitely some additional points I could've addressed that I just didn't have time to for various reasons. The blood one is a weird one because one of the npcs in Hometown acts like it's weird that humans are "made of blood." So the state of monsters and bleeding in DR is very peculiar. Especially when the sprites of Susie bleeding were cut from the game.
It's interesting to me that Sans's theme, "sans." is just. Verbatim the same song from Undertale. Completely.
Vaguely makes me wonder if we could see "It's Raining Somewhere Else" or "Song That Might Play When You Fight Sans" again.
Maybe even with reworked titles, like "It's Raining Here" or "Song That Plays When You Fight Sans".
0:43 - This might seem obvious, but I just got the cryptic remark/in-joke Sans makes about having to wait "maybe a day... maybe another 2 years" for Kris to meet his brother. I've seen lots of people assume this is Sans being evasive and protective of his brother, but he's literally saying you'll get to meet his brother in chapter 3.
I mean, Deltarune was conceptualized before Undertale, and Toby never stopped wanting to make it, so it’s totally possible that he planned for characters to be directly connect to Deltarune all along.
Something I don’t see many people talk about is how Undertale exists in Deltarune - on Asriel’s computer, as an unfinished game. Given that the Dark Worlds so far are each themed around some mode of escapism (board games, internet, TV), it stands to reason that we may one day have a Video Game themed dark world (oooh meta). We know lightner interactions with dark worlds can have subtle impacts on the real world (messy spare classroom, Berdly’s arm), but we’ve never asked the question: what happens to the real world objects if a Dark Fountain closes… with somebody inside? (Would also match Deltarune’s nostalgic themes of 90’s video game urban legends, like ghosts trapped in game cartridges)
See, personally, I don't think it's literally Undertale- since I really don't see Asriel making a game where he dies and becomes a soulless flower, etc, but I DO think it was still a reference *to* Undertale.
@@Dorked Valid, haha, Flowey is a good counterpoint
i needed a good ol' sans theory. been a while since a rly good one has popped out and damn this is fun
Glad you like it! :) I think there's definitely some oddball Sans theories out there, but I suppose that happens with popular characters, haha.
I kinda have this headcannon where Sans and Papyrus leaves Deltarune to Undertake after the Roaring happened.
This video is amazing as usual
Eyy, thanks a bunch! :)
@@Dorked no problem
I just want to point out that Sans bleeds in undertale (at least supposing it's not ketchup...) and in deltarune Susie says that "Everyone bleeds" Which is most likely a scare tactic because another monster in the game asks you if it hurts to be made of blood. But there is also unused sprites of Susie bleeding... so maybe certain monsters can bleed, or maybe determination causes them to be able to bleed? I don't know, but it would explain why papyrus doesn't bleed though.
Just imagine if undertale is just a game inside a deltarune, like you can to see a folder ‘EPIC GAME!!!!!!’ Where the final boss have rainbow wings(like asriel) so yeah
I mean probably the younger version of sans
In deltarune he just mooved in, but in undertale they appeared from absolute nowere
watching this now after the recent newsletter revelation about the font bros coming from somewhere with green grass feels oddly prescient
3:20 an additional funny is when you complete true pacifist, then continue and go back to sans' lab, he has a photo of you standing with your friends
That's very true! I just wasn't sure where to fit in here on this particular topic.
Now for the next theory
Did sans REALLY “befriend” Toriel.
OMG! i didnt even notice that line in sans"s battle! that wgat if you dont do TP before? your so smart!