Is Shunning Biblical?
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- Опубліковано 7 вер 2024
- From Jukebox Studio
Is shunning a biblical concept? If so, what would be a biblical example of shunning? Is it related to ex-communication?
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So, I missed church for a week, and next time I went, I was shunned right in the church. Nobody would even look at me. This is wrong, it is spiritual abuse. I asked the preacher what great sin does he think I'm committing and he couldn't name a one, I just missed church one week. I don't attend that church anymore.
That's really strange, if that's really what happened (I must say if because I don't know the circumstances personally) then it's good that you left. Church discipline should always have a clear reason, and a desired path of repentance leading to rejoining the church.
@@michaellautermilch9185 Thanks and I agree. Same preacher came back at me later and told me my baptism didn't count because I believed I was saved before they dunked me. And I am going to Hell now because I disagree with their "plan of salvation". It's a whole thing. I just praise the LORD for getting me through that and keeping me sane and making me solid. I was a new Christian when they got their claws into me.
I would say it was more like a cult, in that case. I wouldn’t have a problem if somebody asked if you were OK or were sick because they missed you but not to lay a guilt trip on you.
That's completely uncalled for and outrageous. I've noticed something like that in my church too. Not sure. But God doesn't treat us like man. So just keep going to God..
Good
“Now we command you, brothers, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, to keep away from every brother who walks irresponsibly and not according to the tradition received from us.”
2 Thessalonians 3:6
I don't have anything to do with people who shun others.
Haha! So you shun those that shun? I am very curious how you shun yourself?
Lol
Funny...What do you do with yourself?
My sister, who is a professing born again believer, has been shacking up with her pot smoking boyfriend, who was homeless when she took him in 4 years ago!
She is/was the piano player of her Baptist Church for 15 years. She no longer attends. The pastor, and some of the congregation are aware of her situation.
She is currently married, has three children (twins-18 years old, and a 16 year old.) All living in a two bedroom apartment, with her and her "druggy shack up" homeless man who does not work, but gets disability. 🤔
I have confronted her multiple times about this situation she has put herself in, and her children. I have brought it to the pastor and a few of the congregation. They all think its fine; considering her husband of 18 years is a drunk!
I do not want to associate with the "shack up" AT ALL! But I love my sister, of course, but dont want to be accepting of her lifestyle either.
What can I do?? 😟
Washington State🙏
Bad company corrupts good character- 1 Corinthians 15:33
The best way to show love to someone is confront them with the truth, whether it offends them or not.
The Bible teaches people what they need to hear not what they want to hear.
Did you tell her that she is living in adultery and in danger of hellfire?
I think that since she is married to the man then that changes the situation a little bit. I would say she has made a bad choice and the man she is married to is not a good man but they are staying together. I think that you should find a way to maintain the relationship with her as much as possible and bring a man who can get through to her husband in some way as a Christian. He needs the gospel as much as your sister. If he is a dangerous man however then it is better to keep yourself safe.
@@breakingtheidols6531 I think the post reads that the sister is legally married but shocking up with a boyfriend, committing adultery. She has a husband of 18 yeats but a bum boyfriend of four years. I could be wrong but that's I understand it.
@@Chey77700 yeah you may be right. I thought the shack up and the husband were the same guy. I think if that's the case that changes things a lot. I think distancing herself would be in order.
To be fair, there are some good reasons to excommunicate a member from a church; 1, if he is abusive to children or anyone else in the congregation; 2, if he is too easily given to wrath, or, as we put it, quick-tempered; 3, if he brings in false teachings or commits fornication, including sexual abuse against children in the congregation, or is otherwise unrepentant of sin, even after being confronted by two witnesses or brought before the congregation.
Does anyone have any feedback on this situation that happened recently in our church? I’m furious about the entire situation and think it wasn’t handled Biblically but maybe I’m wrong?
A young lady who is a member of our church fornicated. She did not confess to anyone in our church but when she was at a youth conference she repented and confessed to some of the leaders there. They said that they would have to let her church leaders know so they called and told them everything. Our church leaders excommunicated her and told told all the church members about it. They also have a meeting with local pastors/ministers where they also mentioned this girl and her sin so now people in other churches know as well.
I think this is an abuse of power and my heart aches so much for the poor girl. Is it ok to treat someone like this when they came and confessed on their own? Clearly she knew she was wrong and repented. I’m honestly ready to leave the church because of the way this was handled. They also excommunicated another person years ago who also came and personally confessed. He ended up leaving the church and never came back. Any thoughts? Would you leave a church like this?
Those who repent and ask for forgiveness should be forgiven. Yes, this was handled incorrectly
It sounds like Jehovah's Witnesses??? Things are almost never handled correctly there! 😕
I’m being lovingly shunned right now.
I'll pray for you. I hope you are not as isolated as I am. Thankfully they didn't have their claws into me for very long so escaping was easier than it could have been.
I'd hit the like but it's not likable is it? But I'll hit it so you know it's seen.
How so?
No such thing. It is unloving to shun anybody.
@@magepunk2376
Wrong
Before shunning there has to be very clear rules, because every case I know was very relative, and you could be shunned for the same thing a different person did, but they were in good relations with leadership. And those who are shunned have pissed off leadership on different occasions. If there's a punishment. There have to be strict rules to avoid respect for persons. If there's a law, it has to be detailed like Talmud. But, Christianity considers Talmud to be something opposite to what the gospel is. It's way more convenient to judge by eye because it leaves a place for manipulation. Isn't it cool when you have the ability to decide a person's destiny, and they know it? You are like a king in your small kingdom. Besides, look at lawyers, and what's in their heads. It's too difficult to master and elaborate laws. Much better to have the right to decide arbitrarily in every particular situation.
Idk brother.. the scripture in 1 Corinthians 5 says don’t even eat with such a person bearing the name of brother but refuses to repent. Same with 2 John saying don’t even greet a person(specifically referring to someone not abiding in the teachings of Christ, probably false teachers). Then the passage in 2 Thessalonians about people who don’t keep the traditions, avoid them.
Seems like every verse you go to, shunning is the practice. Not even hinting at friendship. I think we should interpret Jesus’ words in light of that. Could it be that the “treat him as a gentile,” actually is shunning?
No, Jesus didn't shun gentiles and tax collectors... He ate with them. 1 Cor 5 is dealing with overt public sin that gentiles don't do... it's clearly bad and blatant. The Bible clearly instructs to reprove with gentleness, but it shouldn't be close friendship interaction like hanging out without addressing the sin issue. You have to address the sin issue and try to help by listening, investigating, and thinking Biblically about the situation. Sometimes church leadership jumps to conclusions that are wrong. If you see a brother eating with woman who is not his wife, and upon investigation you find out it's his sister... that's way different than if caught in an affair even though both would have an appearance of immorality.
You are assuming that I am arguing for no inquiry, diligent seeking out, witnesses, proof, etc. I am talking about after that and turns out this guy is guilty of absolute unrepentant willful sin. "I love my sin and I won't let it go."
Historically it was excommunication which involved, and the Scriptures teach that, calling to repentance and warning is the furthest fellowship goes. Not associate, regarding as an enemy but warning as a brother. 1 Corinthians 5 is not "clearly" dealing with sin that gentiles don't do! That just isn't true. And there are more verses than 1 Corinthians 5. 2 Thessalonians 3:6, Titus 3:10, 2 Thess. 3:14-15
"But now I am writing to you not to associate with anyone who bears the name of brother if he is guilty of sexual immorality or greed, or is an idolater, reviler, drunkard, or swindler-not even to eat with such a one."
@@samabebe1136 I'm responding to your question and giving instruction.
1 cor 5:1 says not even the gentiles or pagans tolerate this sin the Corinthian church is tolerating.
Every discuplary case is different. You have to look at the context of the passage and use Biblical instruction and protocol to handle each situatuon.
Again, Jesus ate with gentiles, sinners and tax collectors when you would apparently be shunning them.... that's something to consider on whether your interpretation is off or not.
@@sonnyh9774Again, not arguing against case by case. There is no context for a church member who says "I love my sin and i won't let it go. Wanna go play golf?" Christians are called to say no. Respectfully disagree brother. I think you're saying something different than scripture, & church history. Especially with your interpretation of 1 Corinthians 5. "Reviling--but only one of a kind not named among gentiles. idolatry too. no brother. I'm not even sure if Joel in this video is arguing that interpretation. It waters the whole command down and makes everything subjective.
@@samabebe1136 you have to argue case by case to use proper hermaneutics.
1 Cor 5 is in context of a man having sex with his fathers wife .... that gentiles don't tolerate. Consider Jay Adam's book on Church discipline. There are 5 steps based on Matt 18 and there are different protocols of treatment of a confessing brother at each stage. The trinity is not mentioned specifically, but do you affirm it? You should because God gave us a mind to reason, deduce, conclude, and apply Scripture to all of life.
You are applying "don't eat" to broadly. Christian's liberty is another issue that has to be beaten like a dead horse to properly understand and apply correctly. I'm saying your position is not based on enough Scripture to apply correctly based on your statement that Jesus meant Gentiles treatment in Matt 18 should mean they are to be shunned. That's a big stretch you support by pulling verses out of context.
GREAT hair, pastor!!!!👌🏼
Why would you say that?
@@tam4givin 😂 perhaps it’s said in jest, because he takes prodigious care of his hair normally but it appears ordinary here. Newborn babies can eat into one’s grooming regimen 🤣🤣🤣 but we love them all the same🤗🤗
@@tam4givin IT's a fornication spirit. Shunn her. just in case
This refers to the BROTHER in Christ, not secular, nonbelievers right?
Yes
This is so unwise! What did it mean at that time? Why were those examples used?
You flip flop back and forth teaching what the Bible does NOT say.
Shun before x communication is not there.
The text also doesn't command the Christian to communicate with the apostate first, then shun later. By trying to maintain communication with the apostate, the Christian runs the risk of joining them in apostasy. That's why the text calls for outright shunning. The apostate made their choice, and it's up to them to repent.
I don't think he was flip flopping, just a bit unclear. The Matthew text us more focused on an issue of sin, and the 1 Corinthians text is more focused on people refusing to accept right teaching, or insisting on wrong teaching. Shunning is more harsh than excommunication, and only applies to those who oppose sound doctrine openly in the church.
Disgusting cult-like behavior.
1cor 5 v1a3 enlever cet homme aqui a commit ladultere avec la femme de son pere,
2cor ch 2 v6 ,7 maintenant vous devrier pardonner cet homme
Alors J'espere que vous n'allez pas essaie'r de manipuller ce s textes dailleur meme dans le commerce ,si vous agissait mal on vous donne la porte de sortie.vous pouvez allez vous rafraichir.
See 1 cor ch 5 v 1 to 3..
2COR CH 2 V 6, 7.
I witnessed a woman who is a leader in children's ministry shouting at a child, not her own, and wagging a finger. Am I required to address this with her directly or does the parent need to confront her. The elders have been informed, but they are asking me to speak with her. I do not yet know her, so I felt it would come across as an attack. I would rather stay out of it and let the elders address it with her. Thoughts?
The elders aren't interested in dealing with this.
Why is that bad? Was the child misbehaving? I don’t understand.. the elders told you to confront her because if you believe that she was in sin for that then it’s your responsibility to confront her privately about it.. that’s Matthew 18
@@christoph1596 You do not see anything wrong with a church leader yelling at a child?🤔
If the elders will not do anything then the instructions in Matthew cannot be carried out.
Not really knowing the leader it probably is not her job to confront her, the elders should or a female leader. 🙏🏼🙏🏼🙏🏼
@@tam4givin Without any context can’t say yes or no.. what was the situation? How old was the child? What were they doing? Was she yelling at a kid who was misbehaving in youth group? Or was this just some unprovoked screaming at a child in a church hallway? Are the parents aware? There are many variables at play. But no, I definitely would not say it is definitively sin for a woman to yell at a child in youth group.. there are certainly events that would warrant that.
And second, The elders don’t immediately get involved in Matthew 18, the first step is 1 on 1 private confrontation, (you’re the 1 as you witnessed it). If you spoke to this woman 1 on 1 because you believe them to be sin sin and this woman refused to repent, then you would “take 1 or 2 other with you”… that would be where elders are involved
@@tam4givin Yes, the elders are going to deal with it, but they wanted to have me approach her as well, because in the body of Christ, we should be able to hold each other accountable. She was totally out of line, as the mom was nearby, and the child was simply running, not being rebellious. Either way, the parent should have been called over