Not to mention that the group actually explains to Letty OFTEN what their experiences are and towards the end of the book flat out tells her, “we keep telling you and you don’t listen,” and she bursts out crying and they have to comfort her.
what???? are we reading the same book??? They think of the reasons, and they talk among themselves but they always leave Letty out. I'm a person of color, and while reading it I was constantly thinking "Why are these so called friends so hostile towards her?" Every time Letty opened her mouth they were irritated or annoyed or plain rude to her
@@soulethh4940 but don’t you think that’s a normal response? Think someone you love makes you see how much you’ve been hurting them. It’s not crazy that you would cry at that
I also think it’s interesting these people ignored that Cathy O’Nell, a white Irish person, was also involved in the Hermes Society because her people and language were LITERALLY COLONIZED OUT OF USE. Reading Babel, it reminded me of a play I read in college in Irish lit class called “Translations” by Brian Friel. It was about British colonization in Ireland and how they renamed and anglicized everything. It played around with the idea of identity and how names have meaning and importance and by changing them it loses some meaning in translation, which is also what Babel talks about. Like just sad that people can’t understand how colonizing and Empire hurts everyone. I just finished Babel today, loved it, am recommending to everyone I know.
Yes I hate how they are all ignoring her. And Cathy also reminds me how white supremacy usually destroys white culture to. That obviously shouldn't be the reason to stand up against white supremacy tho
The book is literally called “the necessity of violence” and she’s shocked that it discusses violence against colonialism in a positive light!? What...
And keep forgetting about the person Letty looked up to at least in the beginning. Like... A white woman literally joins them without needing to know about all the pain they've endured to get to this point? But of course she doesn't count for them apparently 😂
Everyone loves violent revolution in fantasy (legit whole premise of the Poppy War Trilogy??) but the second Kuang uses her plethora of degrees to write a story that displays it in a real world setting, it’s too much????
Also Babel very clearly was trying to create discussion. Do I personally think terrorism is great? No. But did RF Kuang do a great job at showing why revolutions come to that and how the people committing those acts of destruction can be justified? YUP.
@@brees3 this is a really good way of summing up the discussion! my jaw dropped fr so thank you for that lol. even in leftist(-lite) circles violent revolutions are discussed in such a black and white manner that there’s more often than not no room for nuance. rf kuang did an absurdly great job of providing that nuance and complexity in such a way that is easy to understand/absorb, respectful, historically accurate, and brutally honest.
I agree. The way the book ends reminds me of the Philippine revolution. So many bloody betrayals. Fictional revolutions are not that far off from real ones especially when colonialism and racism is involved
German here and these posts don‘t surprise me tbh. German history lessons in school leave out colonialism almost completely. History class moves from the ‚glory‘ of ancient Rome, to the French Revolution, to the Industrial Revolution, to WW1 and to WW2. Some teachers may mention that colonialism happened, but thats very rare and we barely learn anything about Germany‘s role as a coloniser. Even at university (English Major here), Colonisation and Slavery are not mandatory aspects of an English degree. If you‘re lucky, you‘ll have a professor that offers classes on those topics, and even then it is not mandatory to attend these classes. This is not an attempt to play down or to excuse the BS of these girls‘ posts. You‘re 100% right about all of this BS.
Austrian here and same. Almost everything I know about colonialism is because I did my own research, I'm not even sure if it ever came up in high school history lessons. You can always tell when you read comments on newspaper articles about colonialism how shockingly uninformed the majority of people are on that subject. Unfortunately you'll even find teachers and university professors downplaying the horrors of colonialism, as a fellow (former - Im old) english major, i remember my professor not accepting any criticism of Joseph Conrad.
German here, too and also not surprised. While we did learn about colonialism it was basically that all it took were a few nice speeches by Martin Luther King and a bit of violent free protest and everything turned out okay...
German here too and I was "lucky" that my history teacher taught us a lot about colonialism/imperialism (I have to admit, that I had history AP (Geschichts-LK) and therefore we had more time to cover certain topics) . But some of the source material were SO sketchy bc it would say sth along the lines of "well Germany did have colonies, but the Germans weren't as bad as the French and the Brits" and I was like ???
Fellow German here and, yeah, can confirm. Only thing that still baffles me is... like... We had the freaking Third Reich, which that reviewer definitely must have been practically beaten to death with, even more so considering what she's studying. And you'd think that - with at least one critical thought in her head - she'd be able to extrapolate from that. Like... I'm always in awe how one can be studying and not have a single critical thought in their head. Not a single critical thought while literally having to analyse text extensively again and again and again. How bad is our education system please to let something like that slip through? 😩
@@gezeitenspinneI imagine having the Third Reich bashed over your head for your entire life might give you the impression that violent revolution is never the answer.
As a white woman I identified so much with Letty - even in the struggle to get into a male dominated field (I’m an engineer). I absolutely recognized many of the things I have thought and said in her. Especially the lay low, do what you are told and be grateful crap. This book deviated me. But guess what, that is a good thing. Sometime we need to be grateful when someone holds up a mirror of truth for us to look in. It is an opportunity to rebuild and restructure our preconceived notions and beliefs. You know, if enough of us white people did that revolutions would not be violent. And who started the violence? Did these reviewers even read or understand the section with the trip to China? Such widespread violence against entire races and cultures can’t be left unanswered - or are they supposed to just lay low, do as they are told and be grateful? Thanks Jess for speaking truth Good grief. Why even read a book if you aren’t willing to be changed by it
Let alone the fact that all of what she wrote about Britain and China is true. The opium wars did happen, and the result was that China was forced to sign unequal treaties to grant favorable trade concessions, reparations, and territory to the Western powers.
What kills me is them getting upset that there’s violence when it is commonly referred to as “Babel, or the Necessity of Violence”. Y’all thought people were making that up, or what? 😂
right, it's literally in the title!! like, we can discuss it and the implications, but the fact that she was literally shocked that the argument in the book matched the title
I am also German and I think the person who wrote the review read the german translation, that is only called Babel, without any additions. So they probably did not know that it was called the necessity of Violence. The review is still dumb.
Also, the audacity to say “I would love to encourage people to think about what they are reading” sis, the call is coming from inside the house! And to call POC characters as terrorists? What a Karen.
I’m white, middle class, middle aged, from the U.K. and I loved Babel, because it made me think about what colonisers did and how a country benefits from this centuries on. I’m looking forward to reading ‘Yellowface’ as well. It’s good to read books that challenge the belief systems of the world we live in-otherwise how do we learn to do better? Jess you are a breath of fresh air and are so funny.
"The past shows us that fast and violent change never reaches its objective..." The French Revolution interred the chat. Jokes aside, they need to pick up history books, this is embarrassing.
English, American and French revolutions all happened within a century. The Haitian Révolution happened, then the Russian one. I feel, like these examples arent hard to find or remember.
@@moustik31 Exactly !! what annoys me about the reader and their review is that they are students in University, not some middle grade readers. They are supposed to know these stuffs. Like, how did they even pass high school with these critical skills baffles me.
Ironic when this person’s friend claims to be a History major and the person themself is a Literature Major. And both of them claim that Babel is “harmful and racist”. Idk what babel they read but definitely not the same as I did
Funny one of the Hermes Society people was an Irish girl. . . Another country, a dominantly white European country, that was victimized by Imperial Britain colonialism. People the British saw themselves superior to. And the way they treated that character in the book was very much the same. "Oh your language is pretty much dead and dying and growing useless, and soon will be unnecessary." Like she, Irish Gaelic, and so on were just a tool to use and not recognizable as people (and a language) among the students of Babel as its use wore out. Almost makes you think the main point of the book was Imperial British Colonialism, and their shite superiority complexes. Just so happens that also means there's going to be racism too as to them these people and their languages were just tools. WHich just tells you this reviewer utterly missed the point. I promise this isn't a "Well the Irish were treated like shit too" moment from me, just pulling from the book and to examplify how even this character was used to highlight it being about British / English domination from the "Antagonist's" side. Then there's the whole essence of how they approached translation locked away in the chapters covering the lessons they took... Man this book was just so nuanced and layered and did this topic so well. And the Necessity of Violence part. Stars and stones... I swear one day I'll just sit down and write about this book. Its so much to unpack and I'm doing a slow re-read of it to take notes right now.
She complained that all the white people were villainised in this book, but I think she's just not used to reading books without white leads. She got uncomfortable as soon as she didn't have a white main character to relate to because she couldn't bear the possibility of actually trying to understand the perspective of the characters of colour. As someone who is also white and European, I read this book after I read just the first paragraph of her review because I was curious, but I was surprised by how digestible the book actually was for me. Like the characters of Abel and Professor Craft were there specifically for us white people to realise we don't have to be the enemy if we just let go of our selfish individualism and use our privilege to fight for a better world. There is a line where Anthony states that middle and lower-class English people only have to realise that they have much more in common with Babel translators than they have with the aristocrats. What more does she want from this book? By the way, I hate the way she says she's German, as if that means she doesn't have anything to do with colonialism when Germany literally colonised Tanzania, Namibia, Togo, Ghana and Cameroon. I suppose the numerous countries they occupied during WW2 (including my own) also don't exist.
@@artemis1796 I haven't read the book yet, but it's sitting right here waiting for me to engage. I thought the same thing when you mentioned there is not a white lead for her to relate to. I thought this also as there are many other books that can be viewed as racist but in the reverse, and I wonder if those make her uncomfortable or not? No way for me to ever know, but agree with you totally!
Рік тому+68
Two points in that "review" that made me think that she reeeally didnt read it is that letty isnt made out to be a villain from the beggining, maybe its just me but I was about half way through the book when I thought "hm this white chick is gonna go stab stab in some backs". The other point is, its not ONLY about racism as she states it, It's primarily about colonialism!! The point really flew over miles above her head 🙄
Yeah I literally remember thinking when Letty and Victoire was introduced 'oh interesting, now we get the POV of gender discrimination too and then Victoire has the double discrimination of gender and race'. And I was thinking there may well be conflict there but honestly thought it might be between Victoire and the boys!
Exactly! I think Letty’s outburst at the ball was the first time I went “oh no, she will NOT stick by them in the end.” But beforehand I just chucked off her desperate need to be liked as just an upper class politeness thing. And in the end her betrayal to me was a culmination of both racial and class differences. Like RF Kuang said: the need to blend in and just agree with white supremacist ideals
To summarize: book made me feel bad, so book bad. The problem with this whole, almost generational attitude of "positive vibes only" manifests as things like this review. They were so close to actual introspection, but walled it off and turned their feelings on the material instead of being brutally honest with themselves.
This makes perfect sense, if she thinks white ppl are so dangerous and powerful of course she would want to get herself a white man, maybe she thinks she is "marrying up" too.
Her saying that violence isn't the answer and doesn't reach the objective when she is from GERMANY is fucking wild to me. Like ma'am didn't your country re-invent violence? Like she needs to read about the history of her country before she can come forward to talk about how violence is not the answer.
@@bmona7550 I would say that lately the one who are racist are all except white people but all of you in this comment section probably would not like this sentence. Well what I can expect form People who posses s a partial knowledge of human history that suits their narrative of how white has always been evil. But what can you expect from a book written by an American of "Chinese descent". I wonder if she could write such a "great work" about the historical conquests of great China. (winks for Vietnam and India)
"Maybe go outside. Go to the library. Look at some BAH-OOKS!!" PERIODDDDD. PER-IR-ODTTTT!!! This was so on point and applaud you for calling it what it is. I applaud you for using your platform for awareness and TRUTH. I seriously love your courage. WE APPRECIATE YOU. The representation, the education, the personality. ALL YES YES YES. - Ashley Marie
A LOT of western European countries with "smaller" colonial impacts than Britain like to be completely blind to their own histories, or downplay it to a ridiculous degree, and it breeds people with opinions like this German girl. Full disclosure: I'm a white, continental European guy. I may be 10 to 15 years older than this girl, and also grew up with very few non-whites around in my rural pocket of the country. We were STILL made aware of our history, and we were STILL encouraged to seek out perspectives from people with different experiences of life. I can't tell if this girl is purposely obtuse or if she genuinely doesn't know better, but if she's got the kind of higher education that would make her a literary critic, I'd demand a refund if I were her, cause they did an absolutely lousy job.
ofc Babel is going to push Kuang’s opinions like.. she wrote it. it’s not like it’s a historical paper that needs to be impartial. i don’t know what these people expect lol
I’m a white girl reading this while studying abroad in the UK (I took the book around Oxford on my trip there!) and I’m absolutely loving it. Also, went to the Victoria & Albert and British museums and can confirm it’s mostly artifacts from other countries. The V+E has sections for China, Japan, Korea, Buddhism, Middle East, South Asia, and South East Asia. Like, why is one of the sections randomly a religion and not a region/ country?
As a lover of languages and someone who studied translation, I was so overjoyed by the love shown to both. I really liked the characters and the progression in Victoire and Robin's arcs and their different attitudes to the cause was both very well developed and understandable for both sides. I loved the story as well, and its progression felt natural as well. No hand of the author here!
I need to give Babel a re-read. I don't think I was in the right headspace when I read my ARC from NetGalley. Edit: Also the irony of her being from GERMANY and not understanding uprisings... Berlin Wall anybody?
And not just the Berlin Wall! Like, not to pull out the N*zi card when discussing German history, but every single violent uprising against them (and there were at least 15 in Jewish ghettos alone, as well as 3 in concentration camps) was ABSOLUTELY justified. Third Reich Germany is literally one of the key evidence points if you want to argue that violence and war _can_ be righteous and justified, because they are tools that can be used to put down a greater, oppressive evil. The whole "omg the uprising where they locked up all the silver hurt British people, which is super wrong!" - can you imagine someone complaining about how unfair it is that daily life was being disrupted for the German citizens because the "laborers" manufacturing their cars and clothes in concentration camps and ghettos were rioting?? PLEASE 😭😭😭
I love that this "literary critic" (as she refers to on her IG page-), seems to be talking about the exact point that Kuang wanted to describe when telling this story. You would think that after reading the novel, she would actually have *more* empathy with non-white characters. But no, she went the Letty route and made it all about how miserable *she* felt while reading the book (it's literally what the scene was about when Letty started crying and SHE needed to be consoled-). Spoiler alert, it's supposed to be uncomfortable. To me, Babel is hands down a modern classic and I fint it ironic it's getting so many people pissed because it does what art does best: holding a mirror to oneself, if you don't like what you see; maybe it's a you problem.
I genuinely didn’t see myself picking up Babel any time soon, if at all. It sounded interesting but I wasn’t necessarily excited for it, but after allllll this whooopla!!! And these terrible takes from yt women!!! I had to see for myself what was happening 😭 so I picked it up from my favorite bookstore last night lol
Lmao same happened to me. I was planning on reading it as my first book next year but seeing all the stuff happen made me rush to my local bookshop to buy it 😭
Just finished reading the book and these reviewers are telling on themselves. All the degrees that R.F. Kuang has, I'm gonna trust her grasp of history and especially the history of languages. Also, she says in the freaking prologue that this is a work of fiction. I think these folks had this hate-on for the book before they even 'read' it. Great video.
And also the comment about the violent revolution being a bad message to convey ??!!! IT’S CALLED THE NECESSITY OF VIOLENCE!!!!! When her precious Germany was under A.H’s rule, the people against them had to fight!!!! WOULD SHE HAVE WANTED THEM TO GO TALK PEACEFULLY TO THE Nazis??!!! Like 🤦🏼♀️ And that’s one of a million examples!!
TLDR: Woman completely missed the point of the book, her interpretation was shallow and surface-level at best. Crying about how she feels bad for being white. She needs to suck it up. She's German. History everywhere is filled with bad shit happening. We learn from it and don't repeat it. Whole Post: The whole point of Babel is that Violence was not the answer. Everything that was mentioned in the book. It was questioning the necessity of violence when in the end, it changed nothing. The Opium wars still went on to happen; there was a great loss of Babel and an important pillar that was equal to the library of Alexandria. Everything that Robin did accounted for nothing. Robin was a character that didn't think things through, he reacted purely through emotion rather than thinking things through. He literally flipped flopped through the whole book. The girl is entitled to her opinion sure, but if she left that book thinking that it was only about bashing white people, her interpretation is shallow and surface level at best. She is completely ignoring the group that helped Robin and his friends. The Hermes society wasn't just filled with BIPOC characters, it was also filled with white people too. Her insight into Letty was also shallow. Letty wasn't a bad person, she just believed that in a world where you had to work very hard to get anywhere it was stupid of you to try to rock the boat because of principle or throw it away because it came easy to you. To her these people who are friend were just throwing away opportunities, and she wasn't going down with them. Letty also wasn't pretending to be anyone's friend. She was their friend. We all had Letty's growing up, People who were trying their best to understand you as a person but still had implicit bias they needed to work through. Disregarding her as the 'Bad white person' is completely disregarding the importance of her character.
@@BooksRebound Ahhh nicely put. Maybe my out look was a bit pessimistic. I know what came next being from one the colonies mentioned in the book. But I have to agree your take is deffo more hopeful.
As a 23 year old I don't think her age is that excusable. But it's really telling this came from someone from Europe. In my experience online white europeans tend to not understand at all colonialism and the still present effects of it and have a real resistance to understanding they have privilege and benefit from the effects of imperialism
Yes I agree. I live in France and there aren't any classes that really talk about colonialism, teachers mainly focus on WWI and WWII for modern history, but leave out the colonial past completely, or barely cover it like it's "not important enough" (my history teacher used to say that!). It makes me angry because people then act ignorant and entitled as if we didn't have an impact on them in our past and it isn't still affecting the people and the countries of today... And when you try to discuss about it, a lot of white people feel offended or try to minimize everything, it's really disheartening.
Do you realise that you are talking about whole continent and there are quite a few european countries that did not profit from colonialism and were not imperialist states? Europe does not consist only of UK, France, Belgium and Germany
@@liv645 Ok, let's see. First, I didn't say "all of europe" or "all europeans", my comment it's about how there's a TENDENCY amongst europeans to not understand colonialism and imperialism. Second, if you believe only those countries participated in colonisation please, you should probably study a bit more. I know not all European countries were imperial powers. This also ignores the fact that even first world countries that didn't partake in colonisation benefit from imperialism because it's a thing happening to this day and has basis on subjugation of the third world. This doesn't mean every single european person is culpable of things they didn't do, that's not what I'm saying. The point here is about education - acting that the real events of colonisation and imperialism didn't happen and don't have effects to this day - and how a lot of people from first world countries don't want to just admit they have privilege (also, saying some one is privileged is not accusing them of doing the things that created the privilege. Privilege is a symptom of the broken system, not the fault of individual people that didn't create and don't maintain this system)
I dont even understand why we should discuss it so much? Like, it is history, we cannot change it. And people in UK, France, Spain, Portugal, little less Germany who now have such high living standarts cannot be angry about colonialism because that is the reason they live in such developed cpuntries and have the lives they do. No, it was not nice, it is not something any normal person would like to happen again, but it was what it was and that's it. Not to mention that if ot was not for Europe, USA would not even exist, so basically you are all Europeans 😄 And there is no country more racist than America. But yet again, americans are basically europeans who came from the colonizing countries (France, Spain, UK) so I do not know how you can have such a view on Europe. I am from Bulgaria and we have been sort of colonised by the Ottoman Empire for 500 years but I do not hate Turkey now or want them to feel guilty for that. People living mow are not responsible for any of that plus this is life and history: to be strong, you must conquer the not so strong, sorry for the fact.
@@rosinapetrova6246 That answer is so dumb in so many levels I don't even know if it's worth it trying to respond. Like, I'm not even usamerican what are you talking about shzhhszhhshzhwhshsshsh Colonization was still pretty recent tho, and imperialism is still going. And, like, the point is not to make people feel guilty, it's to educate them, educate about what happened and it's effects. Like we should educate about all of history. And if we don't educate we end with situations like these, a German girl crying that a book is racist against white people for just dissecting the truth, portuguese people crying that they as being colonized by us Brazilians by... *checks notes* Brazilian Portuguese being the most common Portuguese dialect... And lots of other nonsense and bullshit. Like you said it's not pretty. But people need to accept the ugly truths of their own countries (and yeah, I know Brazil is pretty racist, I live in it and I am constantly educating myself on it, that's why I'm so vehement on stating that privileged people need to educate themselves and acknowledge their privileges)
Okay, did that one reader think YA was only SJM? I'm seriously asking because the subtitle lets a reader to expect serious topics. I know that and I have no desire to read Babel since it's not my kind of read lately.
Thank you for this breakdown of the situation. I just finished Babel and think it's amazing. I read this person's review and thought it was as if Letty did a review of the book. It also really seemed like she completely missed the point and maybe skipped over large sections of the book. Robin had so much character development.
As someone who’s ACTUALLY gotten my BA in history and lived in Germany for a year AND is planning to go back for my masters in Archival work (i’m literally only doing it for a cheaper tuition option)…that review is not surprising at allllll lmaooooo. Most of that country is still as racist as the rest of Europe save for those few pockets of universities with international students. They view damn near every visibly non-yt person as a caricature so it’s very funny (not funny haha but funny despicable) that person called the POC of the book one-dimensional. Don’t even get me started on the history that they know nothing about or are deliberately being dense about it. It’s really almost comical. Edited: I sent this to my German friends while I was watching and they responded back. They said they never learned about German and European colonization until their high school years at the earliest, and in the most toned down, white washed, sweep the actual bad things under the rug kind of way. So yeah 😂
No, our focus on history was both world wars. And for WWI it's basically "Archduke Franz Ferdinand was assassinated in Sarajevo and then it started". that colonialism and everything that goes with it plays a not so small part in WWI isn't really tought. (Yes Germany had colonies - I even learned that in school but it was brief - not nearly as many as other European countries but still. And yes we were just as shitty in Namibia etc as the others). The real big focus in history class is WWII (in excruciating detail though so learning about how we treated other people shouldn't be an issue really). But not really learning about that time period isn't a German problem, from what I've heard, British history for example is mostly about the industrial revolution and how many wives Henry VIII had (and of course how great they and how bad other countries are
How was her SOUL devastated by a book?! 😂 I wish she led with that so that I knew what was coming. Also was I the only one who found it comedic that she was pasting in definitions between her rambling rant. Like i could see her pausing, looking up a word, and then copying it in 💀💀
Jess, you're an all time classic 🤩🤩 ... "Look WITHIN Maybe go OUTSIDE Maybe touch some GRASS Maybe go to the LAAABRARY And get you some BOOKS" *chefs kiss* 🤣🤣🤣 (And I need it on LOOP)
5:58 - oh God, it's nearly 2023, can people just learn that it's not a marginalised person's responsibility to explain to you why being discriminatory is wrong! Forget before, since 2020, we have spent years of opening our wounds for you to see, put ourselves out there, lost employment, lost friends, lost our peace and safety by speaking out, while people gaslit, attacked and straight up threatened us, while others have branded us grifters, saying we are doing it for money. So, no, we are not going to explain anymore. There is plenty you can read, listen to, watch or you know, be human enough to understand that another human being deserves dignity.
I haven't read Babel yet, so I will not be watching this video rn, but I do have to point out the hilarity of being angry that a book with the very long title "Babel, or the *Necessity of Violence*: An Arcane History of the Oxford Translators' *Revolution*" would condone violence and revolution.
Hey, 19yo white girl from germany here. I loved the book and I don't understand how ppl can be so... not to my liking, to say it nicely. Babel was the best written book I read his year.
There are no words. No words. Read a history book, for god’s sake. Go to a library. Read a book. I don’t understand how the nuance of this book could not be seen? As alternative history. As a critique of past actions. Granted I did not love Babel as much as I wanted to, but it is a masterwork of language, beautifully written, and I adored everything. Small nitpicky things were my problem, but other than that, I adored it! This is a very important book, perhaps the most important book I have read this year. And I will stand by the book one thousand percent. As a white reader, this book provided quite an education for me. I have read plenty books (though still not enough) by POC authors and the history of colonialism is pretty much everywhere here in Britain. We hide it away as best we can, but it is there. Like it or not. And from Kuang’s novel, we see the perspective that we don’t get to see. This is a book about rising up. Obviously the nuance was lost on these reviewers. People get mad when the history of oppression which has made them rich is brought up. They scream “It was so long ago, when will you let go of the past?” Then they continue their oppression, and are taken aback when the oppressed write about it.
I was on the fence because of the mixed reviews. And it’s historical fantasy and I don’t normally like historical fantasy usually. But I got it from BOTM and all this drama has just made me want to read it more.
The thing that gets me about this reviewer is that they somehow saw the violence being portrayed as being glorified? Somehow? When every single act of violence in the book is sickening and revolting and horrifying and psychologically devestating? Most of the kills in the book are followed up by the killer in disbelief of themselves. The most violent act in the book is stated *in the text* to have been evil! My god
I haven't read Babel yet but listening to that review just makes me believe that the reviewer came across a mirror in that text that portrayed her in a very poor light. She felt uncomfortable because she identified with the character she feels was wronged by the author. It's uncomfortable to examine your own privilege. The other reviewer who criticized the author's grasp on history needs to realize that history is written by the victors. If she doesn't understand that history, as horrible as it may seem, has been whitewashed and that the real events are so much worse, then she's the one who needs a history lesson. And I completely agree, some people don't understand that POC cannot be racist because they lack the power and racism is a systemic issue that benefits those in power, predominately rich, white men.
Geez I wonder what that privilege is like, to be able to discount other peoples’ reality just because my feeling are hurt. The reviewers said they were only here for Letty and everything else was just background noise lol. It’s interesting, and telling, that they would pick up a book by a POC and have zero interest in what they’re saying. As always love your takes ❤
Uhhh…. How entitled. I grew up with so much of this. This is a young person who hopefully has a lot more life to live, will later be convicted to study history objectively but I doubt it. Some people feel much safer being covered by the protection created for them. Thank you Jess.
Somehow I'm even more excited to read this now! (I'm under strict orders not to buy/check it out from the library because 'xmas' so I'm (im)patiently waiting) I can't believe encountering these topics somehow led to absolutely no self-reflection. I hope she can someday release her defensiveness and eventually understand that being uncomfortable is a part of personal growth.
Hahahahahahahahaha about Rebecca not knowing history. Have you met all her degrees? 😂😂😂😂 I saw this review on TT the other day, but only on a brief video. thank you for doing a whole rant 🎉
Not an excuse but an explanation: As an Austrian myself (which is Germany-adjecent), I assume that reviewer probably had about the same education as me, which, when it comes to history, is not great (and might have gotten worse since I was in school). History is extremely country-centric, so we learn a lot about WW2 with the focus on our own country... the rest of history is a kind of "well, stuff happened, but let's get back to WW2" Other than the fact that slavery existed and colonisation was a thing, we really don't learn much about it in school. In short: She should simply not have commented on the book at all and realised that she knows nothing.
Honestly, the book was written to acknowledge racism. Just because the book features a lot of people who had some more than unsavory things to say, does not mean that the book supports those ideas. It simply represents the time and mind set most people had during that time.
"R. F. Kuang made me feel miserable with this book" Well, yes, that's the point Also, not she pulling the racism against white people card lmaoooo (I finished this book a week ago and can't stop thinking about it, so I'm watching every video I can about this incredible piece of literature. I am a white person in my country, but in England, I would be considered Latina since I'm brazilian, so seeing the whole exploitation of foreigners for their native language really resonated with me)
“I would love to encourage people to actually think about what they are reading.” (I feel the need to mention I’m half white half Jewish) MAAM I DID. I WAS THINKING AND LEARNING AND BEING INTRIGUED EVERY DAMN PAGE
I didn’t even really love Babel and this “review” infuriated me. How tf did she read a book that long and that obvious in its message and just absolutely miss the theme and message. Like did she even read the book????
The fact that the protagonists get more condemnation for accidentally killing people as a side effect of their protest than the British Empire gets for wanting to start a war and massacre millions of innocent people for money illustrates the book’s point perfectly. The irony is that she gets so close to an actual point. I did find it a bit too convenient that the British Empire effectively had a single point failure system and could be taken down in one swift stroke. I let it go because it made a good metaphor, but I feel like some people walked away with the idea that violent protest is some sort of panacea to all social ills and all you need to do to end oppression is blow up the right tower. But no, her point wasn’t “hey empires aren’t this easy to take down, even violently”, it was “violence is bad at all times and never ever does anything” which is reductive, simplistic, and likely hypocritical since I doubt she extends that same attitude towards soldiers or cops.
Thinking back on how much unlearning of bs I still had to do at that age, I'm hoping and praying that in a few years' time, this young and clearly inexperienced/uneducated/privileged/horrifying person will look back on this review and CRINNNNGGGGGEEEEEE with their whole being.
can’t wait to watch, so commenting for the algorithm, but I haven’t read Babel yet (just finished The Burning God and it wrecked me !!!) so I’ll be putting this vid on my watch later list
i had an absolutely awful day but Jess' dramatic reading and subsequent rant has me cackling in glee. Jokes aside, the first thought that came to mind after reading this was all those goodreads reviews i saw that were like "Rebecca should trust her audience and not spoonfeed us about colonialism and racism" etc...apparently it STILL went over the real life Letty's heads 🙃
No but for real how can someone believe violence isn’t a necessary evil for permanent change? Doesn’t the freaking French Revolution ring a bell? Any country’s fight for freedom? Violence isn’t the answer; but the question, and the answer is yes.
I'm currently 40% into the book. I saw the title of the vid and got concerned: "maybe there's something problematic about the book that I'm not picking up on". I only watched the first bit of the vid - I'll come back after I've finished the book, to avoid spoilers. Reading between the lines, this vid will be a defense of the book against a bad take. I'm very glad. Chapter by chapter, this book had been fantastic. If the rest of the book holds up as well as the first part, it will either be a 4 star or a 5 star for me.
As a german myself...I am getting second hand embarrassment. Also, she's from munich, nuff said. Don't need to know more about her. Just kidding. Of course not everyone is like that but if you can afford to life in munich at 23 as a "literary critic"/student you need CASH. Or parents who life there/close by. And everything she says reads to me as spoiled white girl. Munich is probably one of the whitest cities in germany. It's in one of the most conservative states. I would be surprised if she ever changed her mind. I don't think her problem is that english is not her first language. If she went to school in Munich she had a good schooling. Actually, she had the BEST. Abitur in bavaria is notoriously harder to get than in any other german state. (Maybe BaWü too but that's beside the point) She should be able to read and understand it fluently. I would ask that woman to read MAUS but she would probably accuse it of being racist against germans or some bullshit. So maybe she should stick to something with a more simplistic take on racism. Like Detroit: become human or something. I am sure that's up her alley... god what a shit take.
I have to come back to the comments again because these 'reviews' are killing me. Even if we take into account that they might be uneducated about colonialism (which is funny knowing the role german colonialism played into the Rwanda genocide not that long ago, I would know since I was born in the middle of it), the whole 'violence is so not cool and we should fight for justice but without the fight part'... If we could just will justice into existence, wouldn't we be living in a great world? To take an exemple miss maam may understand since everything has to be related to her for her to grasp it: Hitler's governement was the 'rightful' governement. As in, he was voted in power by the people. So when the allies came to fight a war against him, it was the use of violence to abolish a 'rightful' governement. And many innocent victims were harmed or lost their life in this fight. Because justice never comes just from words or asking politely and very rarely is it peaceful or pretty. I feel like these white women were not ready to confront their white guilt, to which I suggest for them to open a book about the history of their country and then the history of the world. They will find a theme: white people invading people's land, stealing and committing the worst crimes against other populations. Denying it to distance themselves from the consequences these actions still have on today's society might put their soul at ease but at what price? It may sting a little bit but there's so much growth for them to achieve if only they were willing to go beyond that initial discomfort. Again, I have not read the book and I'm basing my information on the reviews and the poorly thought out critics of the book but the irony of them complaining about Letty not being nuanced and being depicted as a white woman who can't understand the struggles of her POC friends and is of little support, yet they are proving they would be exactly just that. You can't make this up
The episode I have been desperately needing since first coming across the stupid rhetoric around Babel. I love Rebecca on Twitter, but haven't read anything by her yet. And guess what, the drama means I have now got myself both the audiobook and the ebook and bumped Babel up to the top of my TBR.
Kudos to you for being able to read this entire long 0 ⭐️ review/rant. Wow. Reviews like that make me WANT to read the books they are ranting against! Librarian here 👋🏻 and currently working on bringing R. F. Kuang to our library for a lecture. I’m excited to see the response we get! All her books have long waiting lists already so I know there is demand. Learning so much from watching book review videos on this author and I’m here for it!
I'm an upper year history major at an elite university and I won't shut up in my classes about babel because it's so relevant to the study of European colonial history. I don't know what history this reviewer has learned because in my opinion rf kuang did an incredible amount of research and hit on so many key themes in the study of colonial history and the complicity of the very institutions we learn about this at.
How can this girl so completely and utterly miss the point the book is trying to make "making me feel guilty of racism through my existence" could actually have been said by Lettie herself! The book tells us time and time again that so many white European characters think there should be no problem since the poc characters had everything, all the material comforts and better chances. Assuming an individual vs a collective perspective on the problems at hand. Which is exactly what this person is doing right now, focussing only on how the book made her feel rather than the bigger picture. I actually think Lettie's character was rather well written, she has depth and motives and her friends do love her dearly, they just end up exasperated because she won't listen. Won't understand. Gets stuck in her naïve whitecentric view of the world and refuses to see things from her friends perspective because she'd be giving away too much. I hate her for her betrayal, and what I hated even more was that I believed she'd be loyal and useful to advance the cause. Her betrayal was in tune with her character but I hate her all the more for it. She wasn't ready to give up her privilege, even for friends she loved.
Hold on, gotta make my tea and get a snack so I can enjoy this properly 🤣 I was just waiting for you to drop this rant ever since I saw that review circulating!!
I have a friend, also from Germany, where we ended up having this same discussion because he brought up something he had done and it was pointed out that it was racist. He was SO offended when we (friend who is from HK, I'm Colombian), told him that yes what he had done was racist. We sat there explaining for like 2h and he STILL didn't get it/wouldn't budge... Mind was blown.
I wasn't really interested in reading Babel - well not all actually - but now I am intrigued to read it. More so, it will be my first read in March as February is reserved for Black authors and January is nearly over and I still have some books for the month. Thank you for your rage and therefore getting me interested in this book :)
Something one of my professors once said to me was that common language is not common understanding. An example of this is the two definitions of racism. So I think before any discourse can be had, the definition of a word is determined before the discussion. Otherwise the conversers will just be talking at each other and not having an understanding of where the other is coming from. That being said, i think these reviewers are very much ignorant and should open up their worldview more so they can understand others views better
The amount of white people I've seen calling the characters caricatures actually makes me uncomfortable. What exactly about Robin was a caricature of a biracial white-east asian man? What exactly about Rami was a caricature of an indian man? What exactly about Victoire was a caricature of a black/haitian woman? I'm waiting for people to give examples without being racist.
Found this review. Appreciate that this is a response instead of an original opinion. Because Babel struck me as quite the opposite of a racist manifesto. One could try to be on the ground and try to lift up the lives of Rohingya people in Myanmar or the lives of the Dumagat peoples and Lumad peoples in the Philippines. Only then would such a 0 star review be respectable. I don’t know R. F. Kuang. But I have friends who lived as activists or volunteer teachers for these indigenous groups, and because of ethnically motivated oppression and violence, they turned into revolutionaries. Some have died in the process or are in hiding. Giving a 0 star review without appreciating that social reality and the rational reasons behind it strikes me as only possible in an upper middle class, white, Global North context.
I haven't read Babel yet, I bought it the other day and from experience her books require more energy and emotional stamina than what I have right now, but I want to know what's going on!! Aaaaa, the choices
I haven't started it for the same reason. I own it. I'm just saving it for when I have the energy to process it, which is not right now. But I do want to know what is going on.
It's a book I recommend taking time with and shutting out others feedback until after you read. It's a book that urges you to think, which is nearly impossible if you've already read what everyone else thought about it.
Yea I've had it checked out from the library for a looong time. I'm realizing that I'm just gonna have to buy it because I haven't been in the mood to read it yet but I do want to read it.
I really enjoyed Babel, it was well well-constructed world with important topics that felt impactful. Robin is a person of color raised in a white environment, made to feel grateful for the education he's been given. A conversation he had with Professor Lovell really demonstrated that. He challenges the professor asking why the silver bars cannot be shared with the countries that contributed to them, to which he is told 'After all, why would a country who did all the work, give it for free" I think that is the whole point of Babel, to show that Britain was founded on the work and lives of people's of color. Their hoard language by taking "translators" who "think in the language" because that's were the power is. this book will make you think, even if you don't end up liking the plot or a specific character.
As marginalized people, we can lead them to water but we can't make them drink. If they want to take being faced with the truth as attack, that's on them. Love your channel, by the way! :)
As one of those people who didn't like Babel, it's really more about not connecting with the author's writing style for me.(I didn't feel the need to enter stocks and have villagers throw 🍅 at me to punish myself for not being a POC 🤦♀️, but I guess I'm just insensitive like that. 🤣😂) I ended up DNF'ing it, but I also DNF'D The Poppy War too for the same reason. Plus, the footnotes. I mean the footnotes had FOOTNOTES. 🤯 That part of it was giving me Armentrount.......(elipsyes) vibes and Maas mmm dash for no reason vibes. So it was really about my mental health at that point because No One, and I mean No One should be subjected to anything that reminds them of Armentrount and Maas suckage. (Yes, they're both popular. Popular and Good are Not Synonyms) 😏
3:06 Lady really started the review saying she felt alone as a white european, and then said the review was for other white europeans who may feel as alone as her. I don't know if she had the courage, but she sure had the audacity. Also, I'm looking at some comments here, and every time an european says their country's school system doesn't really talk a lot about colonialism, an angel loses their wings. Jesus christ. Then again, my own country tends to gloss over the time we massacred Paraguay in war, so it seems heavily edited history is not an europe only problem, it's just that european ignorance SHINES online. Like a train coming right at you.
I hated Babel because it made zero sense to me. We have a magic system that can make people invisible (bend the laws of physics?) and what we do with it? Make steam engines run smoother... This could have been a great magical realism literary fiction but she made the magic system too powerful for the world to stay exactly the same as ours...
I am begging, BEGGING people to understand that propaganda is a neutral value word. Just calling something propaganda doesn't make it bad. "Awareness campaigns" or "outreach" or whatever else they might call it for good and noble and moral causes is still propaganda, because propaganda could also be defined as "the effective marketing of political or moral ideas." and if you think your moral or political ideas are worth a damn then you should absolutely be propagandising them.
Not to hate, but if a book made you feel alone in your point of view, maybe, just maybe, your point of view is wrong? have you considered that, original reviewer? No you haven't, because you are so used to being centred in every conversation, this book made you question your right to exist. You have lived your life as the main character, so for you, being anything other than that is a hate crime (newsflash, it's not, princess). The original reviewer honestly should play the tiktok audio "is it me, am I the villain" on repeat, because honey, yes you are.
I have known a bunch of Germans on my life and I am totally not shocked by the nonsense coming from these girls; these people are deliberately blind to colonialism and their grasp of history is abysmal. They will call characters in the book “caricatures” because have they actually met real poc or listened to our experiences? Of course not. I wrote this in my GoodReads review of Babel: All these negative are making me love this book even more 😂
I'm not a history buff, but I'm pretty sure most changes involved violence and bloodshed. The history of our world is bloody. It's bloody, oppressive, and more often than not, the people who are doing and benefiting from those oppressions are white. If general world history, hell, the history of your own country, doesn't make you uncomfortable, you aren't reading the right history. A review like this is proof positive that more books like Babel need to be published. I haven't read Babel, so I can't speak to how it's written, but I do think if a book garners that kind of response, it most likely means that the mirror it raised to you made you uncomfortable and you didn't like the picture staring you in the face. It's easy to be insulated, and frankly, it's comfortable to be that way. Nobody likes being made aware of just how bad things were and still are in many ways. I think the only way to truly make the world better is to be uncomfortable with the status quo - that discomfort can create change. We just hope it's a positive change.
![Book CommuniTEA: SOME OF Y'ALL ARE NOT OK!!! [CC]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/mKg4hLKzcTU/mqdefault.jpg)
Not to mention that the group actually explains to Letty OFTEN what their experiences are and towards the end of the book flat out tells her, “we keep telling you and you don’t listen,” and she bursts out crying and they have to comfort her.
Her being comforted made me want to throw up. I wanted to slap her upside the head, that's some necessity of violence right there.
what???? are we reading the same book??? They think of the reasons, and they talk among themselves but they always leave Letty out. I'm a person of color, and while reading it I was constantly thinking "Why are these so called friends so hostile towards her?" Every time Letty opened her mouth they were irritated or annoyed or plain rude to her
But that’s exactly it, Kuang brilliantly points out the irony of having to assuage white guilt.
@@soulethh4940 but don’t you think that’s a normal response? Think someone you love makes you see how much you’ve been hurting them. It’s not crazy that you would cry at that
I JUST FINISHED THE BOOK, I was so floored when I read that part. Actually insane.
I also think it’s interesting these people ignored that Cathy O’Nell, a white Irish person, was also involved in the Hermes Society because her people and language were LITERALLY COLONIZED OUT OF USE.
Reading Babel, it reminded me of a play I read in college in Irish lit class called “Translations” by Brian Friel. It was about British colonization in Ireland and how they renamed and anglicized everything. It played around with the idea of identity and how names have meaning and importance and by changing them it loses some meaning in translation, which is also what Babel talks about. Like just sad that people can’t understand how colonizing and Empire hurts everyone. I just finished Babel today, loved it, am recommending to everyone I know.
I thought Cathy was Scottish?
Yes I hate how they are all ignoring her.
And Cathy also reminds me how white supremacy usually destroys white culture to. That obviously shouldn't be the reason to stand up against white supremacy tho
Good point!
The book is literally called “the necessity of violence” and she’s shocked that it discusses violence against colonialism in a positive light!? What...
It's necessity not necessary
@@ErlandDevona yes it is, its the point of the book
RF Kuang really did something when she wrote Letty’s character because all the girlies like her are coming out of the woodwork 😂
And keep forgetting about the person Letty looked up to at least in the beginning. Like... A white woman literally joins them without needing to know about all the pain they've endured to get to this point? But of course she doesn't count for them apparently 😂
This is so real 😂😂😂
I agree
And then you claim you are not a racist…let me laugh
@@ElessarFreydidn’t ask
Everyone loves violent revolution in fantasy (legit whole premise of the Poppy War Trilogy??) but the second Kuang uses her plethora of degrees to write a story that displays it in a real world setting, it’s too much????
Also Babel very clearly was trying to create discussion. Do I personally think terrorism is great? No. But did RF Kuang do a great job at showing why revolutions come to that and how the people committing those acts of destruction can be justified? YUP.
@@brees3 this is a really good way of summing up the discussion! my jaw dropped fr so thank you for that lol. even in leftist(-lite) circles violent revolutions are discussed in such a black and white manner that there’s more often than not no room for nuance. rf kuang did an absurdly great job of providing that nuance and complexity in such a way that is easy to understand/absorb, respectful, historically accurate, and brutally honest.
I agree. The way the book ends reminds me of the Philippine revolution. So many bloody betrayals. Fictional revolutions are not that far off from real ones especially when colonialism and racism is involved
German here and these posts don‘t surprise me tbh. German history lessons in school leave out colonialism almost completely. History class moves from the ‚glory‘ of ancient Rome, to the French Revolution, to the Industrial Revolution, to WW1 and to WW2. Some teachers may mention that colonialism happened, but thats very rare and we barely learn anything about Germany‘s role as a coloniser. Even at university (English Major here), Colonisation and Slavery are not mandatory aspects of an English degree. If you‘re lucky, you‘ll have a professor that offers classes on those topics, and even then it is not mandatory to attend these classes. This is not an attempt to play down or to excuse the BS of these girls‘ posts. You‘re 100% right about all of this BS.
Austrian here and same. Almost everything I know about colonialism is because I did my own research, I'm not even sure if it ever came up in high school history lessons. You can always tell when you read comments on newspaper articles about colonialism how shockingly uninformed the majority of people are on that subject. Unfortunately you'll even find teachers and university professors downplaying the horrors of colonialism, as a fellow (former - Im old) english major, i remember my professor not accepting any criticism of Joseph Conrad.
German here, too and also not surprised. While we did learn about colonialism it was basically that all it took were a few nice speeches by Martin Luther King and a bit of violent free protest and everything turned out okay...
German here too and I was "lucky" that my history teacher taught us a lot about colonialism/imperialism (I have to admit, that I had history AP (Geschichts-LK) and therefore we had more time to cover certain topics) . But some of the source material were SO sketchy bc it would say sth along the lines of "well Germany did have colonies, but the Germans weren't as bad as the French and the Brits" and I was like ???
Fellow German here and, yeah, can confirm.
Only thing that still baffles me is... like... We had the freaking Third Reich, which that reviewer definitely must have been practically beaten to death with, even more so considering what she's studying. And you'd think that - with at least one critical thought in her head - she'd be able to extrapolate from that. Like... I'm always in awe how one can be studying and not have a single critical thought in their head. Not a single critical thought while literally having to analyse text extensively again and again and again. How bad is our education system please to let something like that slip through? 😩
@@gezeitenspinneI imagine having the Third Reich bashed over your head for your entire life might give you the impression that violent revolution is never the answer.
As a white woman I identified so much with Letty - even in the struggle to get into a male dominated field (I’m an engineer). I absolutely recognized many of the things I have thought and said in her. Especially the lay low, do what you are told and be grateful crap. This book deviated me. But guess what, that is a good thing. Sometime we need to be grateful when someone holds up a mirror of truth for us to look in. It is an opportunity to rebuild and restructure our preconceived notions and beliefs. You know, if enough of us white people did that revolutions would not be violent. And who started the violence? Did these reviewers even read or understand the section with the trip to China? Such widespread violence against entire races and cultures can’t be left unanswered - or are they supposed to just lay low, do as they are told and be grateful? Thanks Jess for speaking truth
Good grief. Why even read a book if you aren’t willing to be changed by it
Amen to everything
I think these people read to solidify their preexisting beliefs! So when what they’re reading is the opposite, they can’t digest it.
Let alone the fact that all of what she wrote about Britain and China is true. The opium wars did happen, and the result was that China was forced to sign unequal treaties to grant favorable trade concessions, reparations, and territory to the Western powers.
I know this comment is old but I want "why even read a book if you aren't willing to be changed by it" tattooed on me because like uhhh yes
What kills me is them getting upset that there’s violence when it is commonly referred to as “Babel, or the Necessity of Violence”. Y’all thought people were making that up, or what? 😂
right, it's literally in the title!! like, we can discuss it and the implications, but the fact that she was literally shocked that the argument in the book matched the title
But she thought it would be a “fun romp” 😂
I am also German and I think the person who wrote the review read the german translation, that is only called Babel, without any additions. So they probably did not know that it was called the necessity of Violence. The review is still dumb.
like it’s not only in the title but it’s also an entire monologue and is brought up multiple times, I don’t think anyone can be upset about it
Also, the audacity to say “I would love to encourage people to think about what they are reading” sis, the call is coming from inside the house! And to call POC characters as terrorists? What a Karen.
I’m white, middle class, middle aged, from the U.K. and I loved Babel, because it made me think about what colonisers did and how a country benefits from this centuries on. I’m looking forward to reading ‘Yellowface’ as well. It’s good to read books that challenge the belief systems of the world we live in-otherwise how do we learn to do better? Jess you are a breath of fresh air and are so funny.
If you loved Babel you will also love Yellowface! I’m currently reading that right now 😊
“It made me feel racist for just existing” oh they got so close to the point there
So white people are racist just for existing?
Skill issue😂 the book never intended to make white people racist for merely existing. It's all a product of her own perception
"The past shows us that fast and violent change never reaches its objective..." The French Revolution interred the chat. Jokes aside, they need to pick up history books, this is embarrassing.
English, American and French revolutions all happened within a century. The Haitian Révolution happened, then the Russian one. I feel, like these examples arent hard to find or remember.
@@moustik31 Exactly !! what annoys me about the reader and their review is that they are students in University, not some middle grade readers. They are supposed to know these stuffs. Like, how did they even pass high school with these critical skills baffles me.
@@ayemousel Same.
Ironic when this person’s friend claims to be a History major and the person themself is a Literature Major. And both of them claim that Babel is “harmful and racist”. Idk what babel they read but definitely not the same as I did
Ireland may want to be invited to this
I am in bed sick af but when you said: "the one part of her review that really chaps my ass," the laughter followed by the coughing fit WAS WORTH IT!
that saying will never not be funny
Funny one of the Hermes Society people was an Irish girl. . .
Another country, a dominantly white European country, that was victimized by Imperial Britain colonialism.
People the British saw themselves superior to.
And the way they treated that character in the book was very much the same. "Oh your language is pretty much dead and dying and growing useless, and soon will be unnecessary." Like she, Irish Gaelic, and so on were just a tool to use and not recognizable as people (and a language) among the students of Babel as its use wore out.
Almost makes you think the main point of the book was Imperial British Colonialism, and their shite superiority complexes. Just so happens that also means there's going to be racism too as to them these people and their languages were just tools. WHich just tells you this reviewer utterly missed the point. I promise this isn't a "Well the Irish were treated like shit too" moment from me, just pulling from the book and to examplify how even this character was used to highlight it being about British / English domination from the "Antagonist's" side.
Then there's the whole essence of how they approached translation locked away in the chapters covering the lessons they took...
Man this book was just so nuanced and layered and did this topic so well.
And the Necessity of Violence part. Stars and stones...
I swear one day I'll just sit down and write about this book. Its so much to unpack and I'm doing a slow re-read of it to take notes right now.
Not to mention the book goes into how imperialism hurts the working class.
She complained that all the white people were villainised in this book, but I think she's just not used to reading books without white leads. She got uncomfortable as soon as she didn't have a white main character to relate to because she couldn't bear the possibility of actually trying to understand the perspective of the characters of colour.
As someone who is also white and European, I read this book after I read just the first paragraph of her review because I was curious, but I was surprised by how digestible the book actually was for me. Like the characters of Abel and Professor Craft were there specifically for us white people to realise we don't have to be the enemy if we just let go of our selfish individualism and use our privilege to fight for a better world. There is a line where Anthony states that middle and lower-class English people only have to realise that they have much more in common with Babel translators than they have with the aristocrats. What more does she want from this book?
By the way, I hate the way she says she's German, as if that means she doesn't have anything to do with colonialism when Germany literally colonised Tanzania, Namibia, Togo, Ghana and Cameroon. I suppose the numerous countries they occupied during WW2 (including my own) also don't exist.
@@artemis1796 I haven't read the book yet, but it's sitting right here waiting for me to engage. I thought the same thing when you mentioned there is not a white lead for her to relate to. I thought this also as there are many other books that can be viewed as racist but in the reverse, and I wonder if those make her uncomfortable or not? No way for me to ever know, but agree with you totally!
Two points in that "review" that made me think that she reeeally didnt read it is that letty isnt made out to be a villain from the beggining, maybe its just me but I was about half way through the book when I thought "hm this white chick is gonna go stab stab in some backs". The other point is, its not ONLY about racism as she states it, It's primarily about colonialism!! The point really flew over miles above her head 🙄
Yeah I literally remember thinking when Letty and Victoire was introduced 'oh interesting, now we get the POV of gender discrimination too and then Victoire has the double discrimination of gender and race'. And I was thinking there may well be conflict there but honestly thought it might be between Victoire and the boys!
Exactly! I think Letty’s outburst at the ball was the first time I went “oh no, she will NOT stick by them in the end.” But beforehand I just chucked off her desperate need to be liked as just an upper class politeness thing. And in the end her betrayal to me was a culmination of both racial and class differences. Like RF Kuang said: the need to blend in and just agree with white supremacist ideals
To summarize: book made me feel bad, so book bad.
The problem with this whole, almost generational attitude of "positive vibes only" manifests as things like this review. They were so close to actual introspection, but walled it off and turned their feelings on the material instead of being brutally honest with themselves.
Omg.. “rf kuang thinks white ppl and poc can never have real relationships”… she’s literally engaged to a white man 😂
This makes perfect sense, if she thinks white ppl are so dangerous and powerful of course she would want to get herself a white man, maybe she thinks she is "marrying up" too.
yeah maybe the reason others are failing is that they didn't go to private school/georgetown/oxford/yale?
Reading Babel was like driving into a brick wall. It opened my eyes. I love it.
Her saying that violence isn't the answer and doesn't reach the objective when she is from GERMANY is fucking wild to me. Like ma'am didn't your country re-invent violence? Like she needs to read about the history of her country before she can come forward to talk about how violence is not the answer.
Plenty of racists in Germany. No offense to Germans. Europe is still racist and one should not deny that
@@bmona7550 I would say that lately the one who are racist are all except white people but all of you in this comment section probably would not like this sentence. Well what I can expect form People who posses s a partial knowledge of human history that suits their narrative of how white has always been evil. But what can you expect from a book written by an American of "Chinese descent". I wonder if she could write such a "great work" about the historical conquests of great China. (winks for Vietnam and India)
Ah actually the British invented concentration camps... For WHITE AFRIKANERS during the South African war. The Germans just adopted it.
"Maybe go outside. Go to the library. Look at some BAH-OOKS!!" PERIODDDDD. PER-IR-ODTTTT!!! This was so on point and applaud you for calling it what it is. I applaud you for using your platform for awareness and TRUTH. I seriously love your courage. WE APPRECIATE YOU. The representation, the education, the personality. ALL YES YES YES. - Ashley Marie
A LOT of western European countries with "smaller" colonial impacts than Britain like to be completely blind to their own histories, or downplay it to a ridiculous degree, and it breeds people with opinions like this German girl.
Full disclosure: I'm a white, continental European guy. I may be 10 to 15 years older than this girl, and also grew up with very few non-whites around in my rural pocket of the country. We were STILL made aware of our history, and we were STILL encouraged to seek out perspectives from people with different experiences of life.
I can't tell if this girl is purposely obtuse or if she genuinely doesn't know better, but if she's got the kind of higher education that would make her a literary critic, I'd demand a refund if I were her, cause they did an absolutely lousy job.
ofc Babel is going to push Kuang’s opinions like.. she wrote it. it’s not like it’s a historical paper that needs to be impartial. i don’t know what these people expect lol
I’m a white girl reading this while studying abroad in the UK (I took the book around Oxford on my trip there!) and I’m absolutely loving it.
Also, went to the Victoria & Albert and British museums and can confirm it’s mostly artifacts from other countries. The V+E has sections for China, Japan, Korea, Buddhism, Middle East, South Asia, and South East Asia.
Like, why is one of the sections randomly a religion and not a region/ country?
As a lover of languages and someone who studied translation, I was so overjoyed by the love shown to both. I really liked the characters and the progression in Victoire and Robin's arcs and their different attitudes to the cause was both very well developed and understandable for both sides. I loved the story as well, and its progression felt natural as well. No hand of the author here!
Same!
I need to give Babel a re-read. I don't think I was in the right headspace when I read my ARC from NetGalley.
Edit: Also the irony of her being from GERMANY and not understanding uprisings... Berlin Wall anybody?
And we just had reunification day in October no less.
And not just the Berlin Wall! Like, not to pull out the N*zi card when discussing German history, but every single violent uprising against them (and there were at least 15 in Jewish ghettos alone, as well as 3 in concentration camps) was ABSOLUTELY justified. Third Reich Germany is literally one of the key evidence points if you want to argue that violence and war _can_ be righteous and justified, because they are tools that can be used to put down a greater, oppressive evil. The whole "omg the uprising where they locked up all the silver hurt British people, which is super wrong!" - can you imagine someone complaining about how unfair it is that daily life was being disrupted for the German citizens because the "laborers" manufacturing their cars and clothes in concentration camps and ghettos were rioting?? PLEASE 😭😭😭
They just had a try of a coup too.... The caucasity
I love that this "literary critic" (as she refers to on her IG page-), seems to be talking about the exact point that Kuang wanted to describe when telling this story. You would think that after reading the novel, she would actually have *more* empathy with non-white characters. But no, she went the Letty route and made it all about how miserable *she* felt while reading the book (it's literally what the scene was about when Letty started crying and SHE needed to be consoled-). Spoiler alert, it's supposed to be uncomfortable. To me, Babel is hands down a modern classic and I fint it ironic it's getting so many people pissed because it does what art does best: holding a mirror to oneself, if you don't like what you see; maybe it's a you problem.
I genuinely didn’t see myself picking up Babel any time soon, if at all. It sounded interesting but I wasn’t necessarily excited for it, but after allllll this whooopla!!! And these terrible takes from yt women!!! I had to see for myself what was happening 😭 so I picked it up from my favorite bookstore last night lol
you and me both, sis! These clowns straight up made clear my lists and make Babel my holiday read
I think Babel is a book that is worth the read even if you don’t end up loving it!
Lmao same happened to me. I was planning on reading it as my first book next year but seeing all the stuff happen made me rush to my local bookshop to buy it 😭
Just finished reading the book and these reviewers are telling on themselves. All the degrees that R.F. Kuang has, I'm gonna trust her grasp of history and especially the history of languages. Also, she says in the freaking prologue that this is a work of fiction. I think these folks had this hate-on for the book before they even 'read' it. Great video.
And also the comment about the violent revolution being a bad message to convey ??!!! IT’S CALLED THE NECESSITY OF VIOLENCE!!!!! When her precious Germany was under A.H’s rule, the people against them had to fight!!!! WOULD SHE HAVE WANTED THEM TO GO TALK PEACEFULLY TO THE Nazis??!!! Like 🤦🏼♀️ And that’s one of a million examples!!
TLDR: Woman completely missed the point of the book, her interpretation was shallow and surface-level at best. Crying about how she feels bad for being white. She needs to suck it up. She's German. History everywhere is filled with bad shit happening. We learn from it and don't repeat it.
Whole Post:
The whole point of Babel is that Violence was not the answer. Everything that was mentioned in the book. It was questioning the necessity of violence when in the end, it changed nothing. The Opium wars still went on to happen; there was a great loss of Babel and an important pillar that was equal to the library of Alexandria. Everything that Robin did accounted for nothing. Robin was a character that didn't think things through, he reacted purely through emotion rather than thinking things through.
He literally flipped flopped through the whole book. The girl is entitled to her opinion sure, but if she left that book thinking that it was only about bashing white people, her interpretation is shallow and surface level at best. She is completely ignoring the group that helped Robin and his friends. The Hermes society wasn't just filled with BIPOC characters, it was also filled with white people too.
Her insight into Letty was also shallow. Letty wasn't a bad person, she just believed that in a world where you had to work very hard to get anywhere it was stupid of you to try to rock the boat because of principle or throw it away because it came easy to you. To her these people who are friend were just throwing away opportunities, and she wasn't going down with them.
Letty also wasn't pretending to be anyone's friend. She was their friend. We all had Letty's growing up, People who were trying their best to understand you as a person but still had implicit bias they needed to work through. Disregarding her as the 'Bad white person' is completely disregarding the importance of her character.
@@BooksRebound Ahhh nicely put. Maybe my out look was a bit pessimistic. I know what came next being from one the colonies mentioned in the book. But I have to agree your take is deffo more hopeful.
As a 23 year old I don't think her age is that excusable. But it's really telling this came from someone from Europe. In my experience online white europeans tend to not understand at all colonialism and the still present effects of it and have a real resistance to understanding they have privilege and benefit from the effects of imperialism
Yes I agree. I live in France and there aren't any classes that really talk about colonialism, teachers mainly focus on WWI and WWII for modern history, but leave out the colonial past completely, or barely cover it like it's "not important enough" (my history teacher used to say that!). It makes me angry because people then act ignorant and entitled as if we didn't have an impact on them in our past and it isn't still affecting the people and the countries of today...
And when you try to discuss about it, a lot of white people feel offended or try to minimize everything, it's really disheartening.
Do you realise that you are talking about whole continent and there are quite a few european countries that did not profit from colonialism and were not imperialist states? Europe does not consist only of UK, France, Belgium and Germany
@@liv645
Ok, let's see.
First, I didn't say "all of europe" or "all europeans", my comment it's about how there's a TENDENCY amongst europeans to not understand colonialism and imperialism.
Second, if you believe only those countries participated in colonisation please, you should probably study a bit more. I know not all European countries were imperial powers.
This also ignores the fact that even first world countries that didn't partake in colonisation benefit from imperialism because it's a thing happening to this day and has basis on subjugation of the third world. This doesn't mean every single european person is culpable of things they didn't do, that's not what I'm saying. The point here is about education - acting that the real events of colonisation and imperialism didn't happen and don't have effects to this day - and how a lot of people from first world countries don't want to just admit they have privilege (also, saying some one is privileged is not accusing them of doing the things that created the privilege. Privilege is a symptom of the broken system, not the fault of individual people that didn't create and don't maintain this system)
I dont even understand why we should discuss it so much? Like, it is history, we cannot change it. And people in UK, France, Spain, Portugal, little less Germany who now have such high living standarts cannot be angry about colonialism because that is the reason they live in such developed cpuntries and have the lives they do. No, it was not nice, it is not something any normal person would like to happen again, but it was what it was and that's it.
Not to mention that if ot was not for Europe, USA would not even exist, so basically you are all Europeans 😄 And there is no country more racist than America. But yet again, americans are basically europeans who came from the colonizing countries (France, Spain, UK) so I do not know how you can have such a view on Europe.
I am from Bulgaria and we have been sort of colonised by the Ottoman Empire for 500 years but I do not hate Turkey now or want them to feel guilty for that. People living mow are not responsible for any of that plus this is life and history: to be strong, you must conquer the not so strong, sorry for the fact.
@@rosinapetrova6246 That answer is so dumb in so many levels I don't even know if it's worth it trying to respond.
Like, I'm not even usamerican what are you talking about shzhhszhhshzhwhshsshsh
Colonization was still pretty recent tho, and imperialism is still going.
And, like, the point is not to make people feel guilty, it's to educate them, educate about what happened and it's effects. Like we should educate about all of history. And if we don't educate we end with situations like these, a German girl crying that a book is racist against white people for just dissecting the truth, portuguese people crying that they as being colonized by us Brazilians by... *checks notes* Brazilian Portuguese being the most common Portuguese dialect... And lots of other nonsense and bullshit.
Like you said it's not pretty. But people need to accept the ugly truths of their own countries (and yeah, I know Brazil is pretty racist, I live in it and I am constantly educating myself on it, that's why I'm so vehement on stating that privileged people need to educate themselves and acknowledge their privileges)
Okay, did that one reader think YA was only SJM? I'm seriously asking because the subtitle lets a reader to expect serious topics. I know that and I have no desire to read Babel since it's not my kind of read lately.
Thank you for this breakdown of the situation. I just finished Babel and think it's amazing. I read this person's review and thought it was as if Letty did a review of the book. It also really seemed like she completely missed the point and maybe skipped over large sections of the book. Robin had so much character development.
As someone who’s ACTUALLY gotten my BA in history and lived in Germany for a year AND is planning to go back for my masters in Archival work (i’m literally only doing it for a cheaper tuition option)…that review is not surprising at allllll lmaooooo. Most of that country is still as racist as the rest of Europe save for those few pockets of universities with international students. They view damn near every visibly non-yt person as a caricature so it’s very funny (not funny haha but funny despicable) that person called the POC of the book one-dimensional.
Don’t even get me started on the history that they know nothing about or are deliberately being dense about it. It’s really almost comical. Edited: I sent this to my German friends while I was watching and they responded back. They said they never learned about German and European colonization until their high school years at the earliest, and in the most toned down, white washed, sweep the actual bad things under the rug kind of way. So yeah 😂
No, our focus on history was both world wars. And for WWI it's basically "Archduke Franz Ferdinand was assassinated in Sarajevo and then it started". that colonialism and everything that goes with it plays a not so small part in WWI isn't really tought. (Yes Germany had colonies - I even learned that in school but it was brief - not nearly as many as other European countries but still. And yes we were just as shitty in Namibia etc as the others). The real big focus in history class is WWII (in excruciating detail though so learning about how we treated other people shouldn't be an issue really). But not really learning about that time period isn't a German problem, from what I've heard, British history for example is mostly about the industrial revolution and how many wives Henry VIII had (and of course how great they and how bad other countries are
How was her SOUL devastated by a book?! 😂 I wish she led with that so that I knew what was coming.
Also was I the only one who found it comedic that she was pasting in definitions between her rambling rant. Like i could see her pausing, looking up a word, and then copying it in 💀💀
Jess, you're an all time classic 🤩🤩
...
"Look WITHIN
Maybe go OUTSIDE
Maybe touch some GRASS
Maybe go to the LAAABRARY
And get you some BOOKS"
*chefs kiss* 🤣🤣🤣
(And I need it on LOOP)
5:58 - oh God, it's nearly 2023, can people just learn that it's not a marginalised person's responsibility to explain to you why being discriminatory is wrong! Forget before, since 2020, we have spent years of opening our wounds for you to see, put ourselves out there, lost employment, lost friends, lost our peace and safety by speaking out, while people gaslit, attacked and straight up threatened us, while others have branded us grifters, saying we are doing it for money. So, no, we are not going to explain anymore. There is plenty you can read, listen to, watch or you know, be human enough to understand that another human being deserves dignity.
I haven't read Babel yet, so I will not be watching this video rn, but I do have to point out the hilarity of being angry that a book with the very long title "Babel, or the *Necessity of Violence*: An Arcane History of the Oxford Translators' *Revolution*" would condone violence and revolution.
Hey, 19yo white girl from germany here. I loved the book and I don't understand how ppl can be so... not to my liking, to say it nicely.
Babel was the best written book I read his year.
There are no words. No words. Read a history book, for god’s sake. Go to a library. Read a book. I don’t understand how the nuance of this book could not be seen? As alternative history. As a critique of past actions.
Granted I did not love Babel as much as I wanted to, but it is a masterwork of language, beautifully written, and I adored everything. Small nitpicky things were my problem, but other than that, I adored it!
This is a very important book, perhaps the most important book I have read this year. And I will stand by the book one thousand percent. As a white reader, this book provided quite an education for me. I have read plenty books (though still not enough) by POC authors and the history of colonialism is pretty much everywhere here in Britain. We hide it away as best we can, but it is there. Like it or not. And from Kuang’s novel, we see the perspective that we don’t get to see. This is a book about rising up. Obviously the nuance was lost on these reviewers.
People get mad when the history of oppression which has made them rich is brought up. They scream “It was so long ago, when will you let go of the past?” Then they continue their oppression, and are taken aback when the oppressed write about it.
Her whole "review" to me came down to ... this author didn't center me in the story or make me the hero so I cannot understand it.
as a jew i really wonder what this german girl's grandparents mustve been doing for her to feel this guilty over a book
For real there feeling ain't worth a dman over people's real pain
That's where my mind went as well.
and now i HAVE to read Babel 😌
I was on the fence because of the mixed reviews. And it’s historical fantasy and I don’t normally like historical fantasy usually. But I got it from BOTM and all this drama has just made me want to read it more.
I finished it last week and I loved it. It spoke to me as a child of immigrants and how colonialism effect our lives today
The thing that gets me about this reviewer is that they somehow saw the violence being portrayed as being glorified? Somehow? When every single act of violence in the book is sickening and revolting and horrifying and psychologically devestating? Most of the kills in the book are followed up by the killer in disbelief of themselves. The most violent act in the book is stated *in the text* to have been evil! My god
I haven't read Babel yet but listening to that review just makes me believe that the reviewer came across a mirror in that text that portrayed her in a very poor light. She felt uncomfortable because she identified with the character she feels was wronged by the author. It's uncomfortable to examine your own privilege. The other reviewer who criticized the author's grasp on history needs to realize that history is written by the victors. If she doesn't understand that history, as horrible as it may seem, has been whitewashed and that the real events are so much worse, then she's the one who needs a history lesson. And I completely agree, some people don't understand that POC cannot be racist because they lack the power and racism is a systemic issue that benefits those in power, predominately rich, white men.
Geez I wonder what that privilege is like, to be able to discount other peoples’ reality just because my feeling are hurt. The reviewers said they were only here for Letty and everything else was just background noise lol. It’s interesting, and telling, that they would pick up a book by a POC and have zero interest in what they’re saying. As always love your takes ❤
the off camera "oh no my cup" has made my morning already
Uhhh…. How entitled. I grew up with so much of this. This is a young person who hopefully has a lot more life to live, will later be convicted to study history objectively but I doubt it. Some people feel much safer being covered by the protection created for them. Thank you Jess.
Somehow I'm even more excited to read this now! (I'm under strict orders not to buy/check it out from the library because 'xmas' so I'm (im)patiently waiting) I can't believe encountering these topics somehow led to absolutely no self-reflection. I hope she can someday release her defensiveness and eventually understand that being uncomfortable is a part of personal growth.
These reviews made me want to reread Babel
Sorry she thought a book with “necessity of violence” in the title was gonna be a fun romp easy YA? I’m losing my mind.
Hahahahahahahahaha about Rebecca not knowing history. Have you met all her degrees? 😂😂😂😂
I saw this review on TT the other day, but only on a brief video. thank you for doing a whole rant 🎉
Not an excuse but an explanation: As an Austrian myself (which is Germany-adjecent), I assume that reviewer probably had about the same education as me, which, when it comes to history, is not great (and might have gotten worse since I was in school). History is extremely country-centric, so we learn a lot about WW2 with the focus on our own country... the rest of history is a kind of "well, stuff happened, but let's get back to WW2"
Other than the fact that slavery existed and colonisation was a thing, we really don't learn much about it in school.
In short: She should simply not have commented on the book at all and realised that she knows nothing.
Honestly, the book was written to acknowledge racism. Just because the book features a lot of people who had some more than unsavory things to say, does not mean that the book supports those ideas. It simply represents the time and mind set most people had during that time.
"R. F. Kuang made me feel miserable with this book"
Well, yes, that's the point
Also, not she pulling the racism against white people card lmaoooo
(I finished this book a week ago and can't stop thinking about it, so I'm watching every video I can about this incredible piece of literature. I am a white person in my country, but in England, I would be considered Latina since I'm brazilian, so seeing the whole exploitation of foreigners for their native language really resonated with me)
I was hoping you would tackle that Instagram post. My jaw dropped to the floor reading it. Your response is so on point.
People really don't like being uncomfortable huh 😂 she was SO CLOSE to getting the point
“I would love to encourage people to actually think about what they are reading.” (I feel the need to mention I’m half white half Jewish) MAAM I DID. I WAS THINKING AND LEARNING AND BEING INTRIGUED EVERY DAMN PAGE
just knew that this would be the topic of this book communiTEA episode. loving this series btw :)
I didn’t even really love Babel and this “review” infuriated me. How tf did she read a book that long and that obvious in its message and just absolutely miss the theme and message. Like did she even read the book????
The fact that the protagonists get more condemnation for accidentally killing people as a side effect of their protest than the British Empire gets for wanting to start a war and massacre millions of innocent people for money illustrates the book’s point perfectly.
The irony is that she gets so close to an actual point. I did find it a bit too convenient that the British Empire effectively had a single point failure system and could be taken down in one swift stroke. I let it go because it made a good metaphor, but I feel like some people walked away with the idea that violent protest is some sort of panacea to all social ills and all you need to do to end oppression is blow up the right tower. But no, her point wasn’t “hey empires aren’t this easy to take down, even violently”, it was “violence is bad at all times and never ever does anything” which is reductive, simplistic, and likely hypocritical since I doubt she extends that same attitude towards soldiers or cops.
When I saw the tweets with the screenshots I was like oh my god cant wait for Jess to talk about this
Thinking back on how much unlearning of bs I still had to do at that age, I'm hoping and praying that in a few years' time, this young and clearly inexperienced/uneducated/privileged/horrifying person will look back on this review and CRINNNNGGGGGEEEEEE with their whole being.
I hope so too😂
can’t wait to watch, so commenting for the algorithm, but I haven’t read Babel yet (just finished The Burning God and it wrecked me !!!) so I’ll be putting this vid on my watch later list
i had an absolutely awful day but Jess' dramatic reading and subsequent rant has me cackling in glee. Jokes aside, the first thought that came to mind after reading this was all those goodreads reviews i saw that were like "Rebecca should trust her audience and not spoonfeed us about colonialism and racism" etc...apparently it STILL went over the real life Letty's heads 🙃
The dramatic reading 😭😭😭 truly one of the actors of all time
No but for real how can someone believe violence isn’t a necessary evil for permanent change? Doesn’t the freaking French Revolution ring a bell? Any country’s fight for freedom? Violence isn’t the answer; but the question, and the answer is yes.
I'm currently 40% into the book.
I saw the title of the vid and got concerned: "maybe there's something problematic about the book that I'm not picking up on".
I only watched the first bit of the vid - I'll come back after I've finished the book, to avoid spoilers.
Reading between the lines, this vid will be a defense of the book against a bad take.
I'm very glad. Chapter by chapter, this book had been fantastic. If the rest of the book holds up as well as the first part, it will either be a 4 star or a 5 star for me.
As a german myself...I am getting second hand embarrassment.
Also, she's from munich, nuff said. Don't need to know more about her.
Just kidding. Of course not everyone is like that but if you can afford to life in munich at 23 as a "literary critic"/student you need CASH. Or parents who life there/close by. And everything she says reads to me as spoiled white girl.
Munich is probably one of the whitest cities in germany. It's in one of the most conservative states. I would be surprised if she ever changed her mind.
I don't think her problem is that english is not her first language. If she went to school in Munich she had a good schooling. Actually, she had the BEST. Abitur in bavaria is notoriously harder to get than in any other german state. (Maybe BaWü too but that's beside the point) She should be able to read and understand it fluently.
I would ask that woman to read MAUS but she would probably accuse it of being racist against germans or some bullshit.
So maybe she should stick to something with a more simplistic take on racism. Like Detroit: become human or something. I am sure that's up her alley...
god what a shit take.
I have to come back to the comments again because these 'reviews' are killing me. Even if we take into account that they might be uneducated about colonialism (which is funny knowing the role german colonialism played into the Rwanda genocide not that long ago, I would know since I was born in the middle of it), the whole 'violence is so not cool and we should fight for justice but without the fight part'... If we could just will justice into existence, wouldn't we be living in a great world? To take an exemple miss maam may understand since everything has to be related to her for her to grasp it: Hitler's governement was the 'rightful' governement. As in, he was voted in power by the people. So when the allies came to fight a war against him, it was the use of violence to abolish a 'rightful' governement. And many innocent victims were harmed or lost their life in this fight. Because justice never comes just from words or asking politely and very rarely is it peaceful or pretty. I feel like these white women were not ready to confront their white guilt, to which I suggest for them to open a book about the history of their country and then the history of the world. They will find a theme: white people invading people's land, stealing and committing the worst crimes against other populations. Denying it to distance themselves from the consequences these actions still have on today's society might put their soul at ease but at what price? It may sting a little bit but there's so much growth for them to achieve if only they were willing to go beyond that initial discomfort. Again, I have not read the book and I'm basing my information on the reviews and the poorly thought out critics of the book but the irony of them complaining about Letty not being nuanced and being depicted as a white woman who can't understand the struggles of her POC friends and is of little support, yet they are proving they would be exactly just that. You can't make this up
The episode I have been desperately needing since first coming across the stupid rhetoric around Babel. I love Rebecca on Twitter, but haven't read anything by her yet. And guess what, the drama means I have now got myself both the audiobook and the ebook and bumped Babel up to the top of my TBR.
Kudos to you for being able to read this entire long 0 ⭐️ review/rant. Wow. Reviews like that make me WANT to read the books they are ranting against! Librarian here 👋🏻 and currently working on bringing R. F. Kuang to our library for a lecture. I’m excited to see the response we get! All her books have long waiting lists already so I know there is demand. Learning so much from watching book review videos on this author and I’m here for it!
I'm an upper year history major at an elite university and I won't shut up in my classes about babel because it's so relevant to the study of European colonial history. I don't know what history this reviewer has learned because in my opinion rf kuang did an incredible amount of research and hit on so many key themes in the study of colonial history and the complicity of the very institutions we learn about this at.
How can this girl so completely and utterly miss the point the book is trying to make "making me feel guilty of racism through my existence" could actually have been said by Lettie herself! The book tells us time and time again that so many white European characters think there should be no problem since the poc characters had everything, all the material comforts and better chances. Assuming an individual vs a collective perspective on the problems at hand. Which is exactly what this person is doing right now, focussing only on how the book made her feel rather than the bigger picture.
I actually think Lettie's character was rather well written, she has depth and motives and her friends do love her dearly, they just end up exasperated because she won't listen. Won't understand. Gets stuck in her naïve whitecentric view of the world and refuses to see things from her friends perspective because she'd be giving away too much. I hate her for her betrayal, and what I hated even more was that I believed she'd be loyal and useful to advance the cause. Her betrayal was in tune with her character but I hate her all the more for it. She wasn't ready to give up her privilege, even for friends she loved.
This video made me 10x more excited to read this book omg
not the racism against white people
Hold on, gotta make my tea and get a snack so I can enjoy this properly 🤣 I was just waiting for you to drop this rant ever since I saw that review circulating!!
I have a friend, also from Germany, where we ended up having this same discussion because he brought up something he had done and it was pointed out that it was racist. He was SO offended when we (friend who is from HK, I'm Colombian), told him that yes what he had done was racist. We sat there explaining for like 2h and he STILL didn't get it/wouldn't budge... Mind was blown.
Two HOURS?! Your patience is a thing of beauty. 🙏🏾
I'd honestly act cold to him if it took 2 hours for him to care.
"Do some soul searching!"
Yes!!! 😤
Must be nice to grow up so sheltered you get to produce such a ... review. 🙃
"great britain will be FINE >:D" I laughed so hard omg
I wasn't really interested in reading Babel - well not all actually - but now I am intrigued to read it. More so, it will be my first read in March as February is reserved for Black authors and January is nearly over and I still have some books for the month. Thank you for your rage and therefore getting me interested in this book :)
*R. F. Kuang framing this review next to her doctorate* Ah, white tears.
the reading of the review is taking it to another level that was needed. bless you😭😭 im already in love w your channel
Something one of my professors once said to me was that common language is not common understanding. An example of this is the two definitions of racism. So I think before any discourse can be had, the definition of a word is determined before the discussion. Otherwise the conversers will just be talking at each other and not having an understanding of where the other is coming from.
That being said, i think these reviewers are very much ignorant and should open up their worldview more so they can understand others views better
The amount of white people I've seen calling the characters caricatures actually makes me uncomfortable. What exactly about Robin was a caricature of a biracial white-east asian man? What exactly about Rami was a caricature of an indian man? What exactly about Victoire was a caricature of a black/haitian woman? I'm waiting for people to give examples without being racist.
Found this review. Appreciate that this is a response instead of an original opinion. Because Babel struck me as quite the opposite of a racist manifesto. One could try to be on the ground and try to lift up the lives of Rohingya people in Myanmar or the lives of the Dumagat peoples and Lumad peoples in the Philippines. Only then would such a 0 star review be respectable. I don’t know R. F. Kuang. But I have friends who lived as activists or volunteer teachers for these indigenous groups, and because of ethnically motivated oppression and violence, they turned into revolutionaries. Some have died in the process or are in hiding. Giving a 0 star review without appreciating that social reality and the rational reasons behind it strikes me as only possible in an upper middle class, white, Global North context.
I haven't read Babel yet, I bought it the other day and from experience her books require more energy and emotional stamina than what I have right now, but I want to know what's going on!! Aaaaa, the choices
I just started and I’m taking my time. It is dense and it’s like every paragraph has something to think about. I’m not far in but I’m loving it.
I haven't either yet. I'm apparently getting it for Xmas so I must force myself to be patient.
I haven't started it for the same reason. I own it. I'm just saving it for when I have the energy to process it, which is not right now. But I do want to know what is going on.
It's a book I recommend taking time with and shutting out others feedback until after you read. It's a book that urges you to think, which is nearly impossible if you've already read what everyone else thought about it.
Yea I've had it checked out from the library for a looong time. I'm realizing that I'm just gonna have to buy it because I haven't been in the mood to read it yet but I do want to read it.
i want those people to read Ace of Spades by Faridah Àbíké-Íyímídé 💀💀
I really enjoyed Babel, it was well well-constructed world with important topics that felt impactful. Robin is a person of color raised in a white environment, made to feel grateful for the education he's been given. A conversation he had with Professor Lovell really demonstrated that. He challenges the professor asking why the silver bars cannot be shared with the countries that contributed to them, to which he is told 'After all, why would a country who did all the work, give it for free" I think that is the whole point of Babel, to show that Britain was founded on the work and lives of people's of color. Their hoard language by taking "translators" who "think in the language" because that's were the power is.
this book will make you think, even if you don't end up liking the plot or a specific character.
As a person who lives in Germany and belongs to a minority there, these reviews made me sooo uncomfortable.
As marginalized people, we can lead them to water but we can't make them drink. If they want to take being faced with the truth as attack, that's on them. Love your channel, by the way! :)
As one of those people who didn't like Babel, it's really more about not connecting with the author's writing style for me.(I didn't feel the need to enter stocks and have villagers throw 🍅 at me to punish myself for not being a POC 🤦♀️, but I guess I'm just insensitive like that. 🤣😂) I ended up DNF'ing it, but I also DNF'D The Poppy War too for the same reason. Plus, the footnotes. I mean the footnotes had FOOTNOTES. 🤯 That part of it was giving me Armentrount.......(elipsyes) vibes and Maas mmm dash for no reason vibes. So it was really about my mental health at that point because No One, and I mean No One should be subjected to anything that reminds them of Armentrount and Maas suckage. (Yes, they're both popular. Popular and Good are Not Synonyms) 😏
3:06 Lady really started the review saying she felt alone as a white european, and then said the review was for other white europeans who may feel as alone as her. I don't know if she had the courage, but she sure had the audacity.
Also, I'm looking at some comments here, and every time an european says their country's school system doesn't really talk a lot about colonialism, an angel loses their wings. Jesus christ. Then again, my own country tends to gloss over the time we massacred Paraguay in war, so it seems heavily edited history is not an europe only problem, it's just that european ignorance SHINES online. Like a train coming right at you.
I hated Babel because it made zero sense to me. We have a magic system that can make people invisible (bend the laws of physics?) and what we do with it? Make steam engines run smoother... This could have been a great magical realism literary fiction but she made the magic system too powerful for the world to stay exactly the same as ours...
I am begging, BEGGING people to understand that propaganda is a neutral value word. Just calling something propaganda doesn't make it bad. "Awareness campaigns" or "outreach" or whatever else they might call it for good and noble and moral causes is still propaganda, because propaganda could also be defined as "the effective marketing of political or moral ideas." and if you think your moral or political ideas are worth a damn then you should absolutely be propagandising them.
Not to hate, but if a book made you feel alone in your point of view, maybe, just maybe, your point of view is wrong? have you considered that, original reviewer? No you haven't, because you are so used to being centred in every conversation, this book made you question your right to exist. You have lived your life as the main character, so for you, being anything other than that is a hate crime (newsflash, it's not, princess). The original reviewer honestly should play the tiktok audio "is it me, am I the villain" on repeat, because honey, yes you are.
I have known a bunch of Germans on my life and I am totally not shocked by the nonsense coming from these girls; these people are deliberately blind to colonialism and their grasp of history is abysmal. They will call characters in the book “caricatures” because have they actually met real poc or listened to our experiences? Of course not. I wrote this in my GoodReads review of Babel: All these negative are making me love this book even more 😂
I'm not a history buff, but I'm pretty sure most changes involved violence and bloodshed. The history of our world is bloody. It's bloody, oppressive, and more often than not, the people who are doing and benefiting from those oppressions are white. If general world history, hell, the history of your own country, doesn't make you uncomfortable, you aren't reading the right history. A review like this is proof positive that more books like Babel need to be published.
I haven't read Babel, so I can't speak to how it's written, but I do think if a book garners that kind of response, it most likely means that the mirror it raised to you made you uncomfortable and you didn't like the picture staring you in the face. It's easy to be insulated, and frankly, it's comfortable to be that way. Nobody likes being made aware of just how bad things were and still are in many ways. I think the only way to truly make the world better is to be uncomfortable with the status quo - that discomfort can create change. We just hope it's a positive change.
Dang, I have yet to read babel but wow… please don’t raise your blood pressure over this ❤️as you said it’s not worth it.