How is Aragorn so OLD in LOTR? and the history of Earendil, Elrond, Elros, and Numenor!
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- Опубліковано 8 вер 2024
- How is Aragorn so OLD in LOTR? and the history of Earendil, Elrond, Elros, and Numenor! How does his ancestry with Beren and Luthien effect his legacy.
Tolkien Questions Answered
Tolkien Middle Earth Lore |
Gandalf, Tolkien, Wizards, Rings of Power, ROP, LOTR, Lord of the Rings, Return of the King, Aragorn, Elrond, Elros, Beren, Luthien, Earendil, Valinor, Halls of Mandos, Elves, Skyrim, Belethor
It's also worth noting that Aragorn had Maiar blood in him. Luthien was (is?) the daughter of Thingol and Melian. Melian is a Maiar who married Thingol.
Yeah, I was trying to keep it simple.... half elf / half man.... but it's really such a cool part of his story! Always thought it made Thingol seem snobbish to me - he knows EXACTLY what Beren and Luthien are feeling and is still a jerk about it 🤬
@@thegreyhavens167 Thingol was totally a jerk about it.
Thingol: "You can marry my daughter only if you complete this impossible task."
Beren: "Okay."
@@Timasion
Thingol: Play the best song in the world, or I'll eat your soul.
..."western music"
And we each said: OK
@@Timasion how is getting a silmaril of the crown of morgoth impossible
@@yasinbello8781Hindsight makes things possible which seemed impossible before.
Morgoth was the unassailable ultimate power, that'd be like daring your friend to hoodwink Satan
That interaction with Eowyn is my favorite deleted scene. Really dips into Aragorn's lore.
Wow, is that one my favorite? That's hard to say, but yeah it's definitely a top one. It's funny, give meaningful character background to Aragorn, and kinda Gimli too. It's a fantastic scene!!!!
Putting that spoon in his mouth the second time... bravest thing Aragorn ever did 🙇🤔😅
Love the pixel art!!!!
Thanks. I appreciate that!
I'm really enjoying this channel. You bring a funny spin to it, keep it simple and its very entertaining!
Glad you enjoy it! I'm honestly just trying to make stuff that makes me smile, personally, and super excited that some others feel the same. Thanks for sending the positive vibes my way!
Hope you have an AWESOME Saturday!!! 😎
@@thegreyhavens167 you too! Keep up the good work, you're killing it
I do find it sad that as the since the downfall of Numenor, the lifespans of the Royal Numenorean bloodline has slowly but unstoppably shrunk.
Losing the blessing conferred by living on the island of Numenor really was stupid. But then Ar-Pharazon was a thorough erect protuberence.
Aragorn does get a slight buff compared to his immediate ancestors. I put this down to Iluvatar rewarding Aragorn for his part in the defeat of Sauron. Otherwise Aragorn would have been lucky to live to around 155-175. Plus marriage to Arwen probably came with benefits.
Against the previous trend Eldarion actually outlived his father, passing away at the age of 219. A full nine years longer than Aragorn. I surmise again that it has something to do with his lineage. Having Elrond and Galadriel as grand and great grandparents must have conferred some kind of blessing. The expectation would be that as the generations passed, so would the decline in longevity persist.
The house of Telcontar was predicted to rule for 100 generations or until the Fifth Age began. No doubt by which time their lifespans would resemble us mere mortals of the Seventh Age. Or at least very close.
Having elven and Maiar blood in the family was the real blessing once Numenor was lost.
Wow, never thought of it quite like that. But I totally agree I think.
I always personally thought that it's Aragorn's connection to Elrond and Luthien and Beren and Earendil that really makes him special. Just seems like a running theme in the world that this family is the centerpiece of modern history. The two melodies of Eru joining together.
@thegreyhavens167 Elros lived for 500 years. Tar-Palantir, the final king before Ar-Pharazon (who died early for believing he could attack Valinor), lived for 220 years.
Elendil, the first king of Arnor, lived for 322 years. Araphant the penultimate king of Arnor lived for 175 years. I didn't include Arvedui as he drowned early.
Meneldil, as the first King of Gondor after Anarion and Isildur passed away, lived for 281 years. Eärnil II, the last king not to mysteriously disappear in Morgul Vale, lived for 160 years.
From this you can see how Aragorn and Eldarion are outliers in the lottery of long life. 😁
Omg I just realised that Aragon’s kids didn’t have Grandpa Elrond or Great-Grandma Galadriel to spoil them and it makes me sad 🥲
@@Jadzia1387 I think that the fact that your grandpa and great grandma will live until the end of the world and you only get a measly 200 years probably hurts far more to be honest 😀😫😀
ad that 4 short swords, Gandalf probably send info to Aragorn to prepare something for hobits in that pub
Actually.... that's a great idea!
* In the books, of course, they get the swords in a totally different way. Aragorn is not invovled.
* And in the movie, there is no indication that Aragorn and Gandalf had talked about the Hobbits.
But if we put the two together... I think that makes perfect sense.! Thanks for the great comment.
Oh, he's young! His wife-to-be, though, is 2777 years! That's old! And the grandma of his wife-to-be is something like 9000 years or more. As for the eternal life of the elves, it originated in Anglo-Celtic folk lore, with some little Viking mixin, but there they were kind of demi-gods, rather than on an equal foot with humans.
Gotta be weird being 2777 and marrying someone that's 87. Wouldn't you feel like your dating a little kid or something? But then again, Aragorn is a total legend! 😎
@@thegreyhavens167weirder fact is that his wife is his first cousin.😮 Just need to add around 200-400* grand adjectives. Grand X200 1 cousin does apparently make for a great wife tho someone tell those in Alabama
The book goes to great lengths to explain how few people of Numenorian stock there are left in the north. Aragorn's Grey Company was more of a platoon as it only had 30 members. Counting women and children, I don't suppose there could have been more than 150 or so. And after centuries (if not millennia) of living in exile, and being so few in number, Aragorn must have been related to all of them - probably more than once.
Which means Aragorn's forefathers either frequently married outside the bloodline, taking "common folk" for wives, or Aragorn is the most inbred individual this side of Cleopatra.
Jeff, you had to make it weird.... 🤣
Oh yeah, I agree. And we are told many times as well that Aragorn, in particular, has 100% Numenorean blood. But honestly, it's all underdeveloped. Who are the people of Arnor today? I always pictured the Rangers as the royal court or royal bloodline (though I dont think that is ever said explicitly) so I sorta feel there could be a lot more than just them. But where do they live? What villages do they occupy? Who are they? Where are the women and children and old folks and people that aren't Rangers? 30 people do not make a functioning people, right? 🤔🤔
@@thegreyhavens167 In my college linguistics class our final project was to develop a basic artificial language using IPA and include the historical development of the language (vocabulary was of course limited, but we created a basic grammar and syntax).
We chose the remnant of Arnor as the people group for the artificial language. It was a derivative of Sindarian with cultural influence from Numenor and some borrowed words from the neighboring humans. A distinct language came about due to the relative isolation of the remnant of Arnor and their differing lifespan from the neighboring language groups (elves and common men). We generally stuck to the lore and even created some fan lore to fill in a little of the unknown history of the remnant of Arnor.
It was a gloriously nerdy project.
Amazing video!! I’m currently reading BOTH Lord of the Rings (I’m on the two towers) AND The Children of Húrin (I’m like 30 pages in and I’ve probably had to reread a section I’ve already read at least 50 times)
Thanks. I appreciate that!!!! Hope you enjoy your read.
(Yeah, Hurin is a bit of a tough read in places.... but totally worth it!) 😀
So by having Arwen as wife, it basically means she's having a "time traveled" incest with his very grand-nephew?
Bendostark... you had to go and make it... weird... 🤣🤣
@@thegreyhavens167 nono, I’m sorry if that was the impression. Please don’t get me wrong I’m absolutely not trying to make it weird, I was just trying to point out that basically they remained pure blood in that matter; and if this is like the rappresentati of the choices of twins, “kind of” returning to one main line; I guess?
😂 thats exactly what that means!
Most Excellent, not that it means anything... but, I do like your take on Tolkien, who I 1st read in the late 70's
8 years or so between reads of lord of the rings, lost tales etc plus the bonus of slight memory loss as I age (seriously)😵💫,
Make it a virtual new read every time 🤗
Yourself, men of the west & others bring another side to it & a bit of fun, well done sunshine!
All the best from England🤟
Thanks! I appreciate the positive vibes! Enjoy your next read! 📖
The history of middle earth series really is a challenging read
We need more videos from our boy Tom Bombadil! He is the real G imo
Yes!!!!! 💯. I need more Tommy B!!!!
What a legend.... let me see what I can do. 👍
Been binge watching your videos all morning. I think I have to buy and read Silmarillion..
Wait, so Elrond is his great-something grand uncle? Does that make Arwen and Aragon cousins?
*Sweet Home Alabama intensifying*
You had to make it weird.... 🤣🤣
@@thegreyhavens167 Because it is! I know that the bloodlines are several hundred years apart, but it still is a bit interesting when you think about. Wait doesn't that mean that Galadriel is Aragon's aunt?!? SHE'S ARWEN'S GRANDMA!!!
@@acolyte06312The bloodlines are THOUSANDS of years removed. 60+ generations or more.
As Arwen says in Appendix A in The Return of the King when Aragorn introduces himself "Then we are akin from afar."
"Afar" being an understatement. Thousands of years. Therefore, there's absolutely nothing creepy about them being together.
Fyi Genetically speaking, we are all cousins. Some studies show that 20 generations ago we all have at least person in common in family tree
@@jotnarymir1393 Well. Thanks for pouring salt on the wound
This is nice. Well done. Realized I’ve been saying iluvetar incorrectly in my head too during the silm reading too lol
Thanks, I appreciate the kind thoughts. 🙇. Glad you liked it!! But word of warning, I'm not 100% sure how to say the names either 🤷🤣🤣
According do the books not the film's Tom Bombadil gives the Hobbits their Barrow Blades after rescuing them.!!
Yep, I gotta whole video in that: ua-cam.com/video/Y3p7o5QyZ_Q/v-deo.html
I would LOVE to see Tommy B on the big screen one day!!
Aragorn being the best, episode 2083
Well said, well said. Do you think he ever gets tired of always being the best at everything? 😅
@@thegreyhavens167 Impossible. He's also the best at enduring his own awesomeness.
Perfect editing, also skyrim references are so good.
Aw Yeah!! ＼（〇◡ｏ）／ Thanks. Glad you liked it.
Commenting for the algorithm!
First of all thank you and I like to share some thoughts I have and don't mean it to be criticizing your video. I really liked the quick summary, nicely done. And you are right he was descendant from Elros and Numenorians lived a long life but by the time of Aragorns father it was far below 250 years. Aragorn still became exceptional old for his time. My ancestors 500 years ago came from Germany to the Netherlands I do not consider myself German.... Aragorn was like 3000 years since his ancestors where from Numenor and like what 6000 years since Elros. I don't think people considered he was best of elf :) nor had Maiar blood left in him as suggested in some comments :)
Thanks for the comment. Well said!
I pretty much agree with you. I definitely don't think he had any appreciable percentage of elf/Maiar DNA left in there 😅. But we hear many times the blood of Numenor is pure in him, so def feel he is essentially "numenorian". And as basically Elrond's adopted son and then son in law, I feel he carries on Elrond's legacy of the family of half elven.
What do you think? An I crazy here 😜
@@thegreyhavens167 Not sure if it's true but I have heard within Gondor the Nobility of Dol Amroth where trying to keep the blood pure. I personally never thought of the rangers as people that were very concerned about keeping it pure. He is like the 15th chieftain or 16th something like that.
I am absolutely not an expert but I always felt that the blood of Numenor is more symbolic, I think that he 100% acted as the great kings of Numenor before they got corrupted. And the long life was a reward from Eluvatar, since it was exceptional longer then the life expectancy of a descendant of Numenor in a while.
This thought is definitely not based on anything. Maybe you know of what Tolkien has written about this.
to add or summarize: you are absolutely not crazy and what you stated is all true. I think as an adopted son of Elrond and acting like a Numenorian figuratively not literally his blood was 100% Numenorian.
Which books are y'all sourcing this info from? The Histories of Middle Earth?
I've only gotten to the poetry and shorts anthology books myself, maybe reading them in numbered order isn't the best way.
@@potterfanz6780, I am not a scholar. Most my knowledge comes from people like @thegreyhavens167 who have done the work and shared interesting bits in short videos. I only now started reading The Silmarillion I feel I am old enough now and have the patience to get through it (I am really enjoying it now, in my younger years I couldn't get past chapter 1).
So there were two Agents Smith in LOTR? I always thought that this guy was the same dude from the Elvish place but just now with armor, WTF.
Elf, half-elf, Luthien, Maiar- none of that matters. The answer is that Aragorn was of Numenorean descent who lived for 200 -250 years about. The royal line whom Aragorn was descended from lived for 400 - 500 years That is it. Took less than 30 seconds to type.
Man i love your videos so much !!
Aw yeah... thanks! I appreciate that! Really glad you like them... fwiw I am having a ton of fun making these too. 😅
I could non stop watch
YEAH! 🔥🔥🔥🔥 Thanks for the positive vibes. I really appreciate that. Glad you liked it.
ARAGORN IS A LEGEND!!!
3:05 Númenor is = Atlantis..Atlantians: great large continent/ island great powerful races/ island that sank. Middle Earth were = Lemurians.
100%!!! Numenor is not only based on the "idea" of Atlantis, but meant to be the actual same story. Middle Earth is our Earth. Tolkien referred to it as a "feigned history" that predates our history but pay of our own legacy. Atlantis myths are meant to be the last remaining memories of the real disaster that was Numenor.
For a 87 years old dude he looks very well preserved. Any way to know his favorite moisturiser?
😅. I dunno..... but my guess is it involves Kingsfoil somehow. Dude seems to use that weed for everything 🤣🤣
Any chance one of those many rings he wears is a magic ring? Giving him unnatural long life? ¯\(°_o)/¯
Arwen is Elrond's daughter, and Aragorn is Elros' many greats grandson, so what does that make their relation?
Also Arwen is like his great great grandma or something
1:36 don't you mean their son is half elf half man. A grand son.. can't be half unless his parents are BOTH 50/50.
If one or both parent is 100% elf or human, grandson will be majority 75% elf or human.
Do you make a longer video of all the shorts you do, or is your short content separated from the long content?
Great question ... it's kinda random for me ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
I make a lot more shorts, and I feel it gives me an easier way to explore new stuff and try new things. Then I often will make a longer video loosely based on 2 or 3 shorts that I liked.
What do you think?
Sorry for the late reply. I think that is a good way of making content, as you seem to enjoy it and we get both shorts and longer videos.
I wonder what would happen in a marriage between an elf and a dwarf.
That's a great question. I mean think about it, we don't know hardly anything about Dwarves. We don't know how they marry, how they have kids, what happens after they die, nothing. Only the smallest rumors about Dwarf women at all. So your guess is as good as mine.
But here are a couple things you could think about:
1) When the elves first met Men (Finrod I think), they immediately knew we were brothers - instant bond. But when they first saw dwarves... they thought they were weird evil little creatures and hunted them like animals for years before they realized they were sentient. Sounds like Elves do NOT see them at all like they see us!
2) I have a secret theory... (completely unsupported by Tolkien)... that Orcs are Dwarves. They are short, grumpy, quick to anger, build cool machines, hold grudges, good at bearing burdens, live underground, we never see women, we never see kids, no one knows what happens when they die, etc. LOTS of stuff in common!!!
What do you think?
@@thegreyhavens167Hmm. Your hypothesis of 'Orcs are [a mutated variety of] dwarves.' fits the facts well but for the story Saruman said to Lurtz about Morgoth taking elves and twisting them into orcs.
Yea, that's interesting as orcs also can carry heavy burdens, not be daunted by high temperatures and seem to like being underground and rare materials! I guess we have it then, Gimli, son of Gothmog
Your videos are simply... Amazing. You talk about LOTR, with Skyrim references and Linkin Park musics?
If I was a woman I'd marry you for sure.
But I'll give you the like and sub instead. 🤝
That's what I'm Tolkien about!
Wait, does this mean he got freaky with his very distant cousin?
Yeah…..
To be fair, VERY distant cousin, like 100s of generations.
Though as Elrond basically adopted and raised Aragorn as a son, kinda step-sister vibes as well?? You know what, let's just move on!
@@thegreyhavens167 it was a different time
He’s also related to his wife. Arwen’s kinda like his aunt or cousin many times removed.
jacob.... you had to go and make it.... weird 🫤🤣🤣
@@thegreyhavens167 it’s true, isn’t it?
Yep! :) I mean like 2000 times removed... but Yep!
If he was 87 during LOTR, how long did he eventually live to?
He died at the age of 210, after 122 years as king.
Many of the elves in Middle Earth would have had dark hair, being Nolder.
Hi, love your videos! I have a question about the elves. Do they have some limit on how many children they can have? Or are they just not interested in having more kids? Because if they are immortal, they could have hundreds of children, but it seems there aren't that many of them... thanks!
Yep - great question. There are a lot of papers and writings on elf marriages, parenting, etc.... but I don't think any of this makes it into the main books.
Elfs tend to get married pretty young, and never really get married a second time or divorce or anything like that. Marriage is an enteral thing, just like their spirits are eternal. But it is different than humans - they often don't stay physically in the same place. Galadriel and Celeborn, for example, lived apart for thousands of years and didn't see each other... but still married till the very end. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
They only have children in the time just after marriage (not sure why). So most have only a few children, like 2 or 3. Having 5+ is super rare. So they populate the earth extremely slowly. Note they were never designed for war or anything... the original plan was that they would never die. So Elves generally have trouble repopulating after battles and such. Ever since they left Valinor and came to Middle Earth, their numbers were typically always going down not up.
There you go: or at least that's how I read it. What do you think?
@@thegreyhavens167 thank you, that was very informative and interesting. I read only The Hobbit and LOTR, so I'm not an expert :-) keep up the great work, I'm looking forward to next videos!
Is the pixel art and animation you own was it by someone else.
Btw can you do video about mysterious sea and its creatures in LOTR
mysterious sea and its creatures: added to the list 😅
Some of the pixel art started out with JPGs I found online and "pixelated" and customized myself, and some of them I drew completely from scratch. After that I do all of the animations myself by just drawing the frames and binding them together into animated GIFs.
(I gotta do pixel art, because I'm not talented enough to do other kinds of art 🤣)
What an odd choice of music. But then again, why not, I guess.
🤔 Skyrim, Overwatch, the X-Files, Game of Thrones, the Mandalorian, Coldplay, Linkin Park.... which one seems odd? 🤣🤣🤣
Most Tolkien sites are a bit over serious, imho -- which is weird because the books and films have so much joy and whimsical moments. So just having fun with it and using all of the things that I love! What do you think? Think it would be better if I just stuck to LOTR soundtracks?
@@thegreyhavens167 I was mostly thinking about Game of Thrones xd It seemed odd, but as I said... Why not? :D
I love it! I knew you were going to say GoT!! It's always GoT that throws people off. 🤣 🤣
No one has ever said to me "Why do you play MORTAL Kombat as the theme song for the IMMORTAL elves fighting?" Not once. (you know those preppy knife ears just hate it when I do that) But dozens of folks have comments on Game of Thrones. (⌐■_■)
waaaait...if arwen is elrond's daughter, and elrond is related to the same ancestor as aragorn...
no wonder elrond opposed them getting together!
so aragorn fell in love and later married his "however many great"-aunt? let´s hope that there were enough generations between them it didn´t matter anymore for genetics
Doesn’t that also mean he marries his cousin
Zack, you had to go and make it.... weird 😅
Wait if Aragorn marries the daughter of Elrond but Elrond is the twin of Aragorn's ancestors doesn't aragorn marry family then????
What happens when a dwarf and elf have make baby.
So Aragorn and Arwen are relatives?
So aragon and arwen are distant cousins?
Aragorn and Arwen are definitely kissing cousins 😘
You had to make it .... weird 🤣🤣
@@thegreyhavens167 yup 😂 I had to
Arwen & Aragon are pulling a Luke & Leia with some incest huh
Tomd... you had to go and make it... weird 🤣🤣
I mean from Aragorn's perspective they are separated by thousands of years and hundreds of generations, so probably ok right? (but from Arwens.... 😵)
To be fair, wasn't Luke's fault!
Why are you playing game of thrones music lol
Whaaat? Game of Thrones??? 🤔🤔 I would never! Oh I see... you are confused... that song is Boromir's theme song. 🙂
Does this not make his marriage to arwen basically incesteoul? His ancestor is arwens uncle?
Tracker, lol
The most fucked up thing is that Arwen and Aragorn are depicted as having a legendary romance like Beren and Luthien - and then you find out that they’re actually related. It’s gross.
They are thousand of years apart
Aragorn is about as far removed biologically to Arwen as you are to your spouse.
Powered by NyQuil 💀
Talk about kissing cousins.
You had to make it weird.... 🤣🤣
The map looks like (Asia-Europe) of middle earth while the undeying land looks like america😂
what happens when orcs die
What if ISILDUR destroyed the one Ring
Or what if Elrond have Isildur a little push.... on accident.... into the lava bath?
Oh Isildur, what were you thinking? The Last Alliance was a the last best hope to destroy Sauron, really. It took like 12 years and cost 10s of thousands of lives, like half of the elves of the woodland realm, and Gil-Galad, and King Elendil, and even Isildur's brother... they all sacrificed their lives to end Sauron and in some ways, Isildur wasted it all by not destroying the ring 🤦
Though on a positive side, I bet he did look pretty swaggy.
I've always wondered if it was realistic or not for Elrond to not have helped Isildur slip. Given all the loss and sacrifice, what's one more in the name of peace?@@user-sr4no9jh7i
@@user-sr4no9jh7i then the elves are doomed. The numenorians are the superpower of middle earth. if there are no line of king to keep them in line, then expect a civil war that would devastate middle earth for centuries to come.
the video game sounds are annoying
Heard Earendil was the grandson of Beren and Luthien, could not like the video. That would be Elwing, Earendil's wife. Earendil himself is the son of Tuor and Idril, also a man-elf couple.
Otherwise sick vedeo. This is the way😂
All good.. glad you liked it!! 😅😅
Yeah I know, your right. I'm trying to keep it simple. A lot of my audience hasn't read the Sims so I'm always trying to figure out how to give them some appreciation for Tolkiens world..... but without going into so much detail that they get overloaded and run away. I was originally gonna say grandson-in-law, but that's just... weird.
Anyways, thanks for the awesome comment!!! Have an awesome day!
What a masterpiece!!
Aw yeah! Thanks, I appreciate that. Glad you liked it 😅
Love just all of this and well… i feel like u know what Im going to say everytime i comment…
All jokes aside tho just how do you only have 12k subs i mean… khand🫡🫡🫡🫡🫡🫡🫡
I love it!!!! Thanks again. Hopefully it's keeps growing!!
1:36 don't you mean their son is half elf half man. A grand son.. can't be half unless his parents are BOTH 50/50.
If one or both parent is 100% elf or human, grandson will be majority 75% elf or human.
Good call-out. Your totally right!! 😎. But this one is on me. I was trying to be quick and was a bit too high level. 😅
So this one family intermarried with elves and men (and half elves and half men) two or three generations in a row. So their heritage has a lot of nuance. Take Elrond, for example, is called the "half elven". But in reality he is 56.25% Elf, 37.5% Man, 6.25% Maia spirit (like Gandalf or Sauron). 🤷. But the overall idea is the same.... they represent the best family on the planet and are responsible for most of the great deeds of the time.
There you go. What do you think?