Everybody Warned Me Not to Attempt this Milling Job

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  • Опубліковано 22 жов 2024

КОМЕНТАРІ • 168

  • @RockhillfarmYT
    @RockhillfarmYT  Рік тому

    Check out the bridge we built with this lumber:
    ua-cam.com/video/JzIBzhoVvkk/v-deo.html
    or more of our Saw Mill videos here:
    ua-cam.com/play/PLmYnhJtNUq7cxcDizOh4LbhabyvbU1uAN.html
    #woodlandmills #discoverthewoodland ​⁠ ​⁠
    Rockhill Farm is a daily equipment and rural living vlog. We mainly focus on tractors and working outdoors.
    I really appreciate you taking time to watch this video. If you enjoy this type of content Check out some of the following links to support our channel.
    If you are interested in a rock Hill Farms T-shirt check out our merch store
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  • @jeromebecigneul2911
    @jeromebecigneul2911 Рік тому +40

    All the don'ts we did growing up. Don't drink out of the hose, don't jump off that garage roof, don't ride in the back of an open pickup. Well, let's add one more, don't cut creosote wood. What the heck, we're still ticking along. Great job Brock. Like you even more.

    • @peechford3796
      @peechford3796 Рік тому +1

      Don't point a gun at your brother 😂😂

  • @charlesperry1051
    @charlesperry1051 Рік тому +17

    Thank you for volunteering your time and expertise to help your community. I can't believe you had people complaining that you should charge for your work. Our communities would be in much worse condition if it weren't for the help of those who volunteer their time, expertise, and money.

  • @minutemanmac
    @minutemanmac Рік тому +17

    Those are bridge timbers, not ties. 😉 My second job is in RR maintenance of way and I bring home ties and timbers that are worth saving all the time. Damn good stuff, plus i love the smell of creosote in the summer😂

  • @calisubs6509
    @calisubs6509 Рік тому +4

    Looks like it went fine to me. I'd do it. Your killing me with "creas(t)ote" though. Keep em comin Brock, we'll keep watching.

  • @bryanberryman3384
    @bryanberryman3384 Рік тому +7

    Rex is a natural in front of the camera, I hope his back is okay, I’d hate to see his golf game struggle…..haha. Great work guys and thank you!!!!!

  • @BG-pu9tq
    @BG-pu9tq Рік тому +9

    Agree with the comments about a metal detector. Particularly when sawing beams like those or trees you know or suspect were from around homesteads, etc. I have seen a number of railroad spikes, bolts, other pieces of metal and even horseshoes that grew into trees. Way too much excitement hitting some of those with a radial saw! Usually seemed to happen right after sharpening or replacing teeth! :) One additional thought. It might be interesting to viewers to have a video with Paul Case talking about what he has found in trees while sawing lumber, etc. Congratulations on 75K subs as well!

  • @ChiLLium9
    @ChiLLium9 Рік тому +5

    “It’s worth it for disc golf”
    That needs to be a T-shirt haha thanks for volunteering your time for an awesome community. The world needs more people like you in every town

  • @timhanson2080
    @timhanson2080 Рік тому +11

    You need a good hand held metal detector to check any old lumber. It cut that very nicely. Thanks for sharing 👍

    • @alandeon
      @alandeon Рік тому

      yeah, I just posted the same thing. Standing so close to the blade and hitting a hard metal object could break the blade and cause an injury.

  • @adame270
    @adame270 Рік тому +4

    Good video, it's great to see people volunteer their time to help people out.

  • @PineyGroveHomestead
    @PineyGroveHomestead Рік тому +4

    Went pretty smoothly! Looking forward to the bridge building. Tractor Hard! 🚜💪!

  • @overwatch2671
    @overwatch2671 Рік тому +3

    Good on you for doing something for your community

  • @Sammies-wood-workin
    @Sammies-wood-workin Рік тому +4

    I've cut bridge timber on a 126 woodland mill urban doing a good job keep up the work

  • @frankdrahos8569
    @frankdrahos8569 Рік тому +1

    All in all, a good day! Can’t wait to see the bridge 🌉! Thanks for sharing.

  • @gregorykrajeski6255
    @gregorykrajeski6255 Рік тому +1

    I am always surprised how much good wood is inside old logs. There should be more wood recycling like this.

  • @johngersna3263
    @johngersna3263 Рік тому +3

    Good afternoon Brock. Sorry I'm running a little late again today. Had to take the Wife's Jeep to get a new windshield this morning. Having spent many hours painting creosote onto locust fence posts in my youth I believe that too many people worry way too much about what might (and I use the word might) hurt them. I wouldn't have hesitated to do exactly what you did except that I wouldn't have even thought about using a mask. Creosote is oily so if there is any dust I believe that it would have been minimal. In our area you can buy old railroad ties for landscape work. What I'm trying to say in a round about way is that people spend so much time worrying about what might hurt them then actually living the life that makes them happy. I've done a couple of thousand things in my life that could have killed me but I've had a ball and would do it all again. God bless and don't walk under any ladders. 😁👍🙂

  • @wayne251975
    @wayne251975 Рік тому +1

    The protection from creosote is generally compromised when the timber is cut as the inner portion of the timber doesnt have near the protection that the out timber does.
    If you think about it, the Railroad doesnt rely on timber cut on site. It is cut to spec then treated. The biggest factor comes from ground contact. But the timber also receives a huge benefit from being sealed as Creosote is not only a liquid at high temps but it solidifies at lower temps to a hardened oily surface that protects from sunlight as well as water for several years.
    Cross ties generally last for 7-10 years in service but depending on their use could last several more and in some cases a bit less.
    I have had some only last 5 years and those were new.
    So take it for what it is worth. Im just another commenter that had several years on the RR and used them for at least 30 yrs off and on.
    If you do use resawn Creosote timbers it would be a good idea to seal them in a heavy oil stain for obvious reasons.
    Just remember Free still has a cost to many. Sometimes health and sometimes having to redo again after you put to much faith in the materials integrity that had been compromised...
    Have a great day..

  • @OldIronAcres
    @OldIronAcres Рік тому +5

    Niiiice! Looked like it went pretty smooth! Also seemed really efficient milling with a crew of 3!!

  • @mfreed40k
    @mfreed40k Рік тому +1

    Cree-a-stoat? Missed that one by a mile.

  • @bluethunder1951
    @bluethunder1951 Рік тому +4

    I’ve sawed old telephone poles with my HM126, they had some metal in them, but I used a metal detector after each board. I used my older blades. You should invest in a metal detector it will save you some blades.

  • @Brett_the_discgolf_noob
    @Brett_the_discgolf_noob Рік тому +1

    Thank you so much for doing this for the Baxter Disc Golf club we appreciate it!!

  • @clauderivet5180
    @clauderivet5180 Рік тому +1

    THX for the link on this video you did it and it worked out just fine for you, the boards look awesome.
    Now I'm gonna check out the Bridge. Excellent job with great explanation 👍

  • @lewerim
    @lewerim Рік тому +1

    I've always loved your attitude when trying something new to you or unconventional. It was summed up well in the comment; "Everybody said don't do it.. Well, we've got 'em here, so we're just going to go ahead and try it."

  • @garyblevins3532
    @garyblevins3532 Рік тому +1

    I don't think that I would've ever thought about pinesol but it seems to have worked

  • @JestRLee
    @JestRLee Рік тому +2

    Not sure what it is, but there is something so satisfying about milling lumber...

  • @scotpettengill7801
    @scotpettengill7801 Рік тому +1

    I see you figured out the lubricant on your own, kudos. I have a 130 Max and it is a great saw. Your platform it's mounted on is awesome. looks like it works very well.

  • @LOUDsigh
    @LOUDsigh Рік тому +1

    No extreme view/opinion from me. It's all new info to a me. A cool learning experience. Ty sir

  • @larrylyday9330
    @larrylyday9330 Рік тому +2

    Cool video, keep up the good work!👍👍👌

  • @angeldaniel2640
    @angeldaniel2640 Рік тому +1

    @7:30. Ive seen videos of people pressing the decompressing valve, slowly pull the cord all the way out and once you let go it starts the engine.

  • @jefferykeeper9034
    @jefferykeeper9034 Рік тому +1

    Creosote is made from tree sap and the Louisville and Nashville railroad was the first too use it to help keep ties from rotting.

  • @bobpurs
    @bobpurs Рік тому +2

    Look like a good project to me Brock 👍

  • @Jammer.1
    @Jammer.1 Рік тому +1

    The only time creosote ever bothered me was on a roofing job tearing off old hot tar roofing i had gas burns on my arms & face So there should not be any troubles around cutting it other then a bit dust ! Plis you gained another subscriber in me !

  • @joesutherland225
    @joesutherland225 Рік тому +1

    Id use that stuff no problem post and beam constructs are fantastic

  • @JAKE3914
    @JAKE3914 Рік тому +1

    damn! I would've LOVED to have seen a cut width ways!!! That would be awesome!

  • @stickshaker101
    @stickshaker101 Рік тому +1

    I wired an addition in the early 90's that was built out of a reclaimed railroad trestle. It smelled horrible during the rough in, but it was odorless during the final. I've always wondered if the smell came back.

  • @BENNHENDRICKS33
    @BENNHENDRICKS33 Рік тому +1

    Good stuff Brock

  • @moobaz8675
    @moobaz8675 Рік тому +2

    Why is watching log sawing so therapeutic?

  • @robintaylor-mockingeemill8223
    @robintaylor-mockingeemill8223 Рік тому +1

    I was only warning of the metal . I figured there would be more blades used .
    The lumber looks good . If I get a chance to work with clean ties I might give it a try .
    Thanks for the experiment .

    • @pauljones2762
      @pauljones2762 Рік тому +1

      Railroad ties are probably more full of rocks and spikes then the bridge timber. Wonder if something like WD40 would be better lubricant for this type of cutting than the pinesol, as the wd would react with the creosote cutting it better than the pinesol. Not a wood cutter so asking out of ignorance more so than questioning.
      Great video.

  • @jerrycopley9325
    @jerrycopley9325 Рік тому +1

    Creosote is a oil can't see that getting in your lungs from breathing it. Worked on railroad for a few years it doesn't come off easy lol but really made some nice lumber for bridge they should put creosote on it again or something because creosote doesn't go all the way through it. Very nice job !! and maybe you get to play a few rounds of golf and youtube will buy you some new clubs !!

  • @BG-pu9tq
    @BG-pu9tq Рік тому +1

    Agree with the comments about a metal detector. Particularly when sawing beams like those or trees you know or suspect were from around homesteads, etc. I have seen a number of railroad spikes, bolts, other pieces of metal and even horseshoes that grew into trees. Way too much excitement hitting some of those with a radial saw! usually seemed to happen right after sharpening or replacing teeth! :) One additional thought. It might be interesting to viewers to have a video with Paul Case talking about what he has found in trees while sawing lumber, etc. Congratulations on 75K viewers as well!

    • @joshbibb2527
      @joshbibb2527 Рік тому +1

      The trees we saw at work it's usually either bullets or barbed wire lol

  • @gnusndn301
    @gnusndn301 Рік тому +1

    Let me guess was that old-growth douglas-fir wood?
    That should make a great structural timber.
    I'm glad that you were successful with your project.
    Thank you.

  • @davidmarr7570
    @davidmarr7570 Рік тому +1

    Used creosote for yrs until it was banned. constantly got it on my skin. Nearly 70yrs of age and healthy. By the way I mixed used diesel engine oil and diesel only this morning. Still have a way the go but will have a current timber job finished soon.

  • @artlife6210
    @artlife6210 Рік тому +1

    I imagine the bridge with these will be bad ass!

    • @RockhillfarmYT
      @RockhillfarmYT  Рік тому +1

      We built it today and will be showing it in tomorrows video

  • @Depth_of_Cut
    @Depth_of_Cut Рік тому +1

    The concern i was talking about is metal in the logs. But You said A blade only last 3 hours? I'm use to circular blades lasting all day with a few quick touch ups during the day. I'm assuming the band blades on that saw are not all that expensive? So if you did hit a rail spike or some other chunk of metal in a log it wouldn't break the bank? or send 2 foot chunks os circular saw blade at you!

  • @mr19471985
    @mr19471985 Рік тому +1

    I was in Vietnam in the war as a Combat engineer and we used big beams with creosote for bunkers. The only problem was handling it without gloves and that would burn that required a visit to the Corpman. I have since worked with the stuff in business and never had a problem. go for it you took the right method for protection.

  • @everettealbarez7819
    @everettealbarez7819 Рік тому +1

    Just a little bit to help you guys out with your project.

  • @JimsEquipmentShed
    @JimsEquipmentShed Рік тому +1

    “If a littles good, a lots better.”
    My new bumper sticker…… ;-)

  • @carpediem3391
    @carpediem3391 Рік тому +1

    That was cutting like a hot knife through butter

  • @freddieslaughter1107
    @freddieslaughter1107 Рік тому +1

    Nice building you have

  • @ericgansauer708
    @ericgansauer708 Рік тому +1

    About 45 years ago I worked for a landscape company that had me build a set of steps out of fresh rr ties. We cut the ties in half so the steps were 4 feet wide. The creosote sprayed all over my arms and when I wiped sweat I got it on my face and forehead. It started burning and put me in the ER. For ten years after that the first sun of summer would burn like heck. Creosote is nasty stuff.

  • @ekim72
    @ekim72 Рік тому +1

    Next purchase...Metal detector. Great vid, keep 'em coming.

  • @tlbx57
    @tlbx57 Рік тому +1

    Using a metal detector over the cant before hand should save hitting hidden metal. Save some blades. Good work guys.

  • @Stefan_Smith
    @Stefan_Smith Рік тому +2

    The main issue with creosote is that you shouldn't use it for firewood or burn it

  • @jamescheever7982
    @jamescheever7982 Рік тому +1

    This is for disc golf guys ... heck yea ... im one of those guys that gets volunteer work done for disc golf

  • @kerrykrishna
    @kerrykrishna Рік тому +1

    It was so wild you thinking of even doing this, but it looks like a terrific job. Rockhill, please tell me though, you folks DID run a metal detecter over each one of the pieces right? Thanks. I hope you folks make a ton of cash off of this.

  • @hawkenman.549
    @hawkenman.549 Рік тому +3

    If the creosote doesn’t harm you, something else will. No one gets out of life alive. Can’t live your life in a bubble, your going to still die if something. That’s a great project, you did the right thing taking in this job. Recycled some good lumber. Had you not done that, it would have ended up in a land fill or burned. Great job. Thank you Mr. Brock.

  • @nlynch55
    @nlynch55 Рік тому +1

    Creosote did cause my skin to burn one time when i cut some poles with a chainsaw. Long time ago though

  • @alandeon
    @alandeon Рік тому +1

    only 4 minutes in but my first question is did you run a metal detector over this looking for nails or other steel objects imbedded into this before starting???

  • @timbervisions
    @timbervisions Рік тому +1

    It looked like you could've put two up there at once and doubled your output each pass. Just a thought.

  • @deshaunjackson8188
    @deshaunjackson8188 Рік тому

    Real man

  • @naj370
    @naj370 Рік тому +1

    if it is creosote try not to cut it with the chain saw. and if it gets on you shower quickly to prevent burns.

  • @mkc0005
    @mkc0005 Рік тому +1

    Only experience I have with creosote is having to coat a fence with it down in FL as a kid. The fumes of the fresh stuff caused a worse burn than being at the beach for 12 hours straight. It was pretty miserable.
    The screw is a hazard with using any reclaimed lumber in a woodworking project. Get a small hand held metal detector and give them a quick go over.
    For those that say it’ll kill you-so will eating pie but I like pie.

  • @toddcaskey9984
    @toddcaskey9984 Рік тому +1

    I would love to have them .

  • @Matt-vw7jr
    @Matt-vw7jr 11 місяців тому

    Air hammer might have helped or rotary hammer... appreciate the videos

  • @whspioneer89
    @whspioneer89 Рік тому +1

    Why are you using PB Blaster? Weren’t you using something called Rust Patrol or something similar?

  • @joelmcclellan1050
    @joelmcclellan1050 Рік тому +1

    Those were beautiful bridge ties. There can’t be any lumber that will last as long “in contact with the ground “. If you build that bridge properly your kids will be crossing it, using canes, thinking of you. If I were there I’d love to be part of that project. Just to give. How many great nights of sleep I’ve had…just giving.

    • @RockhillfarmYT
      @RockhillfarmYT  Рік тому +1

      I thought it was a pretty cool result to this bridge, considering we spent almost nothing and it was all volunteer work
      We Built a 40 Ft Bridge with Resawn Railroad Ties
      ua-cam.com/video/JzIBzhoVvkk/v-deo.html

    • @JimsEquipmentShed
      @JimsEquipmentShed Рік тому

      Kids? Probably more like his grand kids kids…… (unless there’s a flood….)

  • @devosingh7861
    @devosingh7861 Рік тому +1

    I watched your video because I seen a short of you unloading the wood. I wanted to see you kill your equipment. Happy I stoped by and subscribed.

  • @bigrebone
    @bigrebone Рік тому

    when I was young back in the 60's. they used to dip dogs in creosote to kill the ticks and fleas.

  • @johnfulks8821
    @johnfulks8821 Рік тому +1

    the treat on these timbers is asphault , the biggest problem in milling the timbers is ballest dust in the timber , sawing the bolts never helps the blade on any mill , but , if you like , i have no objections ,

  • @gasm1100
    @gasm1100 Рік тому +1

    You’ll be fine if just a one time payment closure. Use good gloves and an N95 respirator and your good. I’d wear a Tyvek suit as well to avoid transfer contamination into your car and home

  • @rickmercer8153
    @rickmercer8153 Рік тому +2

    You need to invest in a metal detector wand to scan your lumber.

  • @gasm1100
    @gasm1100 Рік тому +1

    What kind of wood is it?

  • @heathhalfhill6401
    @heathhalfhill6401 Рік тому +1

    Great repurposing of old Timbers guys. God knows how old those trees are. Probably not a common age nowadays.

  • @richvail7551
    @richvail7551 Рік тому +1

    Every time I post something I’m doing or ask a question about something I want to do, I usually get a few responses from people who come from the worst outcome angle, but also I get a few comments from people who are calm and helpful. I try my best to seek out that calm helpful people and give a bit more weight on their pros or cons of my project.
    The only issue I see with the bridge is the run off of the contents into the waterway you’ll be crossing. When it rains or pieces flake off the lumber I’m not sure what impact that would have on the contents in the water. Could be nothing or maybe it’s something. Is there a way to get the answer for that? 🤷‍♂️

  • @chadjones4236
    @chadjones4236 Рік тому +1

    My one thought was I hope they ran a metal detector over before cutting 👍 still can't argue the final result there's nothing better than repurposing something like that I recently replanked a deck kept every piece of wood that was usable and built another chicken coup only cost me time and $ for hardware

  • @rustyaxelrod
    @rustyaxelrod Рік тому +1

    Just the nature of the internet. Overly cautious and precise is a safe position and makes a commenter seem more knowledgeable. In real life things have to get done, usually with a minimum of fuss. In this case, lubing the blade, good airflow, masks and collecting most of the sawdust in the bucket are all reasonable mitigation. I would add not tracking this material into family areas where barefoot kids could be exposed for a long time is a consideration as well so a good clean-up of the mill area, boots, gloves and tools when the job is finished might be another consideration.

  • @leebyrd1434
    @leebyrd1434 Рік тому +2

    I'm just one old man who thinks y'all have a bit more saw than you have good sense. Just saying. Enjoyed every minute of it.

  • @ke6bnl
    @ke6bnl Рік тому +2

    is the center of the wood also treated and safe from rot?

    • @TheKajunkat
      @TheKajunkat Рік тому

      Sometimes it doesn't penetrate all the way to the core but you can see it when you cut it. There will be a pretty distinct boundary where the penetration stops.

  • @houstonfirefox
    @houstonfirefox Рік тому +7

    Creosote has been known to cause California in the state of cancer 😂

    • @alandeon
      @alandeon Рік тому

      Yeah.... That's always been a funny warning. I'm totally safe unless I cross the boarder suddenly the products could cause cancer LOL

    • @lyndseymarieburke1834
      @lyndseymarieburke1834 Рік тому

      😂😂😂😂😂❤

  • @randywells4674
    @randywells4674 Рік тому +1

    The middle is not near as treated as the out side and want last as long as you hope

  • @ronaldsmith214
    @ronaldsmith214 Рік тому +1

    It is poison but people have been working with it for hundreds of years good stuff Brock

    • @TomSarelas
      @TomSarelas Рік тому

      Exactly. It may kill you, but you'll be about 144 yo. Ingore the money morons, they have no clue how to be a good example. And if it were my course, I'd name the bridge after you. Carry on & rhank you, Brock. God bless. TFS

  • @JCWren
    @JCWren Рік тому +3

    What wood species are those ties?

  • @scotpettengill7801
    @scotpettengill7801 Рік тому +1

    You should be spraying the lubricant on the other side of the wood, as it infeed's into your wood.

  • @shk2564
    @shk2564 Рік тому +1

    You should invest in a cheap metal detector wand and save yourself from hitting metal 👍

  • @delunamarco
    @delunamarco Рік тому +1

    Why didn't you clean them first with a high pressure washer and hot water ?
    That would take some of the stuff

  • @scottjones5221
    @scottjones5221 Рік тому

    What did you think of the pinesal

    • @RockhillfarmYT
      @RockhillfarmYT  Рік тому +1

      It’s inexpensive in the quantity we used, and we didn’t have any problems so I would probably use it again.
      I didn’t do any kind of a comparison, so it might’ve worked fine without it.

    • @scottjones5221
      @scottjones5221 Рік тому +1

      @@RockhillfarmYT I believe it works well diluted 5:1, also pleasant smell compared to diesel

    • @RockhillfarmYT
      @RockhillfarmYT  Рік тому +2

      @scottjones5221 that was a typo in my first response. I meant it was inexpensive. We only probably used a couple ounces.
      So for occasional use, the cost was not much and it did not smell bad

  • @stevehartz4615
    @stevehartz4615 Рік тому

    I like your mill,is it a30inch?

  • @victornowlin9092
    @victornowlin9092 10 місяців тому

    Your saw blade won't rot

  • @W4GHW
    @W4GHW Рік тому +1

    Perhaps a metal detector would be a good investment or better than that, the mill manufacturers should install a metal detector ahead of the blade. You might pretend that! :)

  • @rayboucher479
    @rayboucher479 Рік тому +1

    Creosote does not affect you short term unless you are subject to massive contamination or drown in it as it is the long term affect of carcinogens that may kill you. Nothing worse than getting to 55 years old and getting ready to enjoy your retirement after working your whole life and dam for some reason I have this weird cancer associated with certain chemicals and I worked my whole life in say an office but I do remember that one time when I cut some creosote laden lumber for FREE . God I wish I could buy that back ! All life is a risk you can only work to limit it . Good Luck .

  • @andrewanderson1436
    @andrewanderson1436 Рік тому +1

    Of all things on this planet that can kill you....... its just some wood your cutting. Its not like you're going to be cutting that type for 10hrs every day for 20 yrs. Reusing those old beams is awesome. I wouldn't bat an eye at doing the same thing to build something great.

  • @davidhopping3043
    @davidhopping3043 Рік тому +1

    NEVER STAND ON THAT SIDE OF A BAND MILL MR. SPRAYBOTTLE MAN ,HAVE YOU NEVER SEEN A BAND BREAK

  • @randywells4674
    @randywells4674 Рік тому

    I commend you for donating giving back

  • @stuartpulvermacher6861
    @stuartpulvermacher6861 Рік тому +1

    I like your chainsaw chaps Safety first

    • @rexqualls4976
      @rexqualls4976 Рік тому

      I told him put them on, that he was gonna get gigged for not wearing em. Lol

  • @SpiritBearRanch
    @SpiritBearRanch Рік тому +1

    It's not always about money

    • @RockhillfarmYT
      @RockhillfarmYT  Рік тому

      Right. I wasn’t paid. Just helping out. I will make some money for the video. Probably just enough to cover my expenses

  • @terencemerritt
    @terencemerritt Рік тому +1

    I didn’t realize you only got 2-3 hours cut time out of a blade. That doesn’t seem good at all 🤷🏼‍♂️

    • @RockhillfarmYT
      @RockhillfarmYT  Рік тому +1

      It sounds terrible but in reality your Sawmill is only running for maybe 15 minutes on a log. The log might take an hour, but most of that time is the blade is not actually in the wood.

  • @jeremysumpter8939
    @jeremysumpter8939 Рік тому

    Creosote...you added a T in the middle where there isn't one

  • @privateer0561
    @privateer0561 Рік тому

    I don't know what creostote is.

  • @jackspeer2127
    @jackspeer2127 Рік тому

    the word Creosote has the "t" at the end and none in the middle

  • @centexan
    @centexan Рік тому +1

    The cutting was so quiet. Usually when I watch milling operations like this, as soon as the blade bites wood you can hear the sawing. Not so with this.