Accident Review Las Vegas C310R
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- Опубліковано 13 жов 2024
- FlyWire Accident Review of the C310R that crashed in Las Vegas at the end of October 2020.
VASAviation UA-cam
• Cessna C310 crashes in...
Josh Flowers Aviation101 and the AQP Program
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FlyWire is about exploring flight and the freedom this incredible experience brings us on a personal level. Flying has always captured the imagination and excitement of living life to its fullest. Hi, I'm Scott Perdue. In a former life I flew the F-4 and F-15E, more recently I retired from a major airline. I've written for several aviation magazines over the years, was a consultant for RAND, the USAF, Navy, NASA as well as few others, wrote a military thriller- 'Pale Moon Rising' (still on Kindle). But mostly I like flying, or teaching flying. Some of the most fun I had was with Tom Gresham on a TV show called 'Wings to Adventure". We flew lots of different airplanes all over the country. Now with FlyWire I want to showcase the fun in flying, share the joy and freedom of flight and explore the world with you. Make sure you subscribe if you want to go along for the ride!
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I was good friends with the PIC of this accident airplane, Bob Golo since 1993. Had breakfast with him months before, we had to curtail that eating out due to the California COVID stuff. It was tough losing Bob Golo my friend (months after my cousin, she took her life, perhaps due to the COVID climate). Bob was a MEI, and had many hours training in the CFI mode, both in San Diego and Chicago. He was once an air traffic controller in Chicago. Of the many pilots I know, have employed and are friends with, Bob was one of the last ones I would think would make this cardinal sin error in flying. We are all vulnerable of course, and must avoid the traps. I appreciate Scott Perdue's analysis and it is worthy without early judgement on pilots. RIP, Bob Golo and his passenger.
Dear Scott, There is even more to this tragic story. 400 feet southeast of the crash site are high voltage power lines on steel towers. The airplane was flying directly into these power lines. They are barely visible on your short video of the crash, but seen clearly on Google Maps street view at 4005 Raven Ave, Las Vegas, NV 89139, the site of the crash. The crash site was against the outside of the fence on the west side of the above property. In your video, the pilot appears to react to these power lines as they came into view by pulling back on the yoke. This cost him what little speed he had, with the inevitable results. I agree with you that by making several bad choices throughout this emergency, this pilot put himself into this dangerous situation with few options. May we all learn the important points you made in this presentation. Grasping them will undoubtably save lives. Thank you for your dedication to this channel. I love what you are doing. Please keep on keeping on.
Here is a little more information: Your security camera video of the crash was from the north side of a house located at 4420 West Agate Ave. A Google Map Street View from the street just west of this house clearly shows the three tall trees with round tops that are just left of center in your video. This helps us determine the video's orientation. The power lines are also clearly visible as they pass southeast of this house in a southwesterly direction. The power lines are also visible on the bottom right corner of your overhead view of the crash site. These power lines would be very difficult for a pilot to discern in time to avoid due to their thin single metal pole design. In your video, also note the increasingly radical attitude of the aircraft from the time that it enters our view on the left of the screen to the dive. To me this suggests an increasingly instinctive reaction to avoid the power lines, especially as the pilot lost authority due to the loss of speed that these maneuvers caused. We should also consider that the pilot may have increased power on the running engine in an effort to regain speed, exacerbating loss of control. Although the aircraft did not strike the power lines, they should at least be considered as a factor in the crash. In cases like this, some reasonable speculation helps us appreciate the possibilities. There are many lessons to be learned from this tragedy that I am confident will ultimately save lives. Thank you again for your channel.
Channel 13 News coverage on the day of the crash shows a fully extended boom truck at the construction site and just 50' beyond the crash site. The boom is extended roughly 70' high. This is another obstacle for the plane to avoid at it's low altitude. The steel power line poles mentioned before top out at roughly 90' high.
As a commercial pilot I’ve declared two emergencies and never even had to make a phone call afterwards, don’t listen to anyone who tells you not too.
Thanks for sharing!
I agree with you, here. After an uneventful engine out landing (multi, part 91, FXE), with fire trucks, etc. I never had to call or speak to anyone. Its a non incident at that point, I would guess. I recommend that you ask tower to allow you to taxi non stop directly to the ramp, or you may be unable to steer where you want to go on the ground.
@@johnschreiber1574 Great story, thanks for sharing John!
I've handled dozens of emergencies as a controller and manager in 7 towers. I've never sent anyone a bill.
He’s full of crap. 33 years ATC and we’ve never had a pilot call us after an emergency.
well said! I had an engine failure in a fully loaded Max takeoff weight Cessna 402 B model on Charter. As any pilot who flies these knows, they do not perform well on one engine fully loaded. Fortunately for me and my pax ,I had a bit of altitude when the right engine failed. I feathered the prop, carried the dead engine 5 degrees, declared an emergency and returned to the Aerodrome. I started my descent late and arrived on final at 2000 feet agl all the time fully aware of staying well above my VMCA speed. This worked well by the time gear went down and 15 flap then 30 flap I hardly had to apply power to the good engine and landed safely. This was good experience for me as years later I had an engine fire in the left engine in command of an ATR 72 fully loaded with passengers and freight. After shut down auto feather, and activating the extinguisher, declaring emergency, diverting to nearest suitable aerodrome arriving on final at 2000 feet AGL, we landed safely with little power needed from the right engine.
Great story, thanks for sharing!
When I was a new pilot a seasoned veteran shared a little gallows humor, " when you lose an engine in a light twin the good engine will carry you right to the point of impact!'
Ron White made the same joke.
Stupid statement. So why buy a twin?
@@STONEDARTphotos I didn't buy a twin.
It's only a joke
@@STONEDARTphotos It doubles your chance of an engine failure.
Exactly !
But the good thing is, you'll arrive at the point of impact at least a half hour before the rescue crews manage to get there.
He used to fly a lot from KNZY..KNUC, KSEE..KNUC and F70..KNUC. When I saw the the c/s in the Title and I heard his voice, I knew it was the same pilot. Sad news. RIP.
The way you described the importance of this pilot taking charge and realizing the magnitude of the situation is flat out on point sir!
Not wanting to seem inconsiderate to the living but every time I start to watch one of these accident videos I first think of the aircraft and its history. The decades it was flown. All the wonderful experiences people enjoyed in them. The great memories. Etc.
Ditto!
Pre-takeoff self brief for EVERY takeoff includes where you intend to put the thing in the event of an engine failure (total or partial) during or soon after takeoff. Also, while you can , once established in cruise, continue to fly a twin with one shut down, it does not constitute "ops normal", and the only consideration needs to be a safe conclusion of the flight. I know pilots have been fired for landing somewhere inconvenient with an engine problem, but who wants to fly for an operator who would do that? I still remember my own multi instructor driving that message home to just put it on the ground safely. Any other consideration is secondary.
Exactly right Alan. Thanks for sharing.
Another great analysis Scott. I think ego plays a big part in why some pilots do not declare an emergency.
I would say not so much ego as you suggest, more of being (1) over-confident that the situation is manageable, and ; (b) not wishing to be of any trouble to anyone else, ATC in this case.
Unfortunately (b) is a psychological condition indoctrinated into people throughout most of their life.
'Don't be a pain' don't cause trouble.
It is something that become difficult to un-learn for most people.
Military training undoes most of that early indoctrination.
The adverse effect of that is that those who have not had military
training confuse assertiveness with arrogance.
They just do not understand the difference.
@@andrew_koala2974 that last bit is well said. I'm no aviator; I used to be a ship-driver. Somewhere between sports & Navy (and even musical performance) experience, I got a mentality of "drill every skill" and "rehearse the scenarios." This drill & rehearse attitude seems to be missing behind many of these unfortunate GA mishaps.
@@andrew_koala2974 My guys info was totally on Pont for it out of the park especially the
This accident is super eerie to me. I took my Commercial-Multi checkride on Oct. 31, 2020, and my examiner was looking up the results of this crash to find out that it was one of his very good friends. Of course at that time there wasn't really any information on the crash, but my examiner's special focus was on 2 things: 1 Vmc conditions/ rollovers and 2. to never reduce power or give up altitude while having an inop engine unless you know you have a runway made. To watch this analysis makes those lessons very real.
Aren, thanks for watching and sharing. Never give up altitude until you have other alternatives... it's like money in the bank.
Part 23 twin. "Always Leave Yourself an Out". Great document. Don't run out of rudder!
Brilliant presentation, thank you. Pilots pay attention to airmanship.
Much appreciated!
@@FlyWirescottperdue your demeanour us so pleasant and is easy listening
Spot on sir, all pilots need to watch these videos and learn.
Much appreciated!
I learn so much from your videos. Thank you for putting in the effort to produce these.
Your welcome, thanks for watching!
Going into Henderson tower always asks, “Are you familiar with Black Mountain?” Because it’s in the way and easy to think you can descend earlier. Very hard to stay under bravo. Almost for sure you are right, descent started too soon. Also, in my T210 departing Henderson I lost oil pressure when starting my climb east of the bravo. I didn’t declare to avoid alarming passenger. It was 32 miles to Kingman and I safely made it there maintaining the 10,500 I had until runway was made. Bad decision on my part not to declare and I literally have a mayday radio call in mind all the time today. My fellow GA pilots, YOU HAVE A PROBLEM DECLARE! It nay save your life.
Thanks for a helpful video
Thanks for sharing your story BDR!
Honest non-ego communication is vital to multiply the chance to survive!!!
I have had the experience yrs ago of lossing a critical engine in a Beagle and survived with the guidance of ATC!!!
Great analysis! Thank You!
Thanks for sharing Nelson!
Once that VMC roll starts, you have to reduce power on the operating engine, stomp the rudder to pick up the dipping wing, lower the nose, and prepare to flare onto whatever surface you are over.
Amen Scott! Tragic story, I believe you are spot on with this review! May they Rest In Peace. 🙏🏼
Keep up the great work!
Thanks Nick!
I am currently a corporate pilot, but spent 29 years as a controller. In reality, 3 entities can declare an emergency: 1. The pilot.
2. ATC facility personnel. 3. Officials responsible for the operation of the aircraft. The pilot HAS to communicate that there is a problem! He should declare an emergency, but as is the case with human nature, most hesitate to do so. That leaves ATC, who if notified of the problem can handle the aircraft as an emergency and give it the priority it deserves. Remember the 4 C's. Climb, COMMUNICATE, CONFESS, and comply. You make excellent points Scott! Thanks for these important lessons learned videos.
I never realized that it’s so hard to gain altitude with only one engine on a twin! This is a VERY important lesson to be learned! As you said, keep your altitude as long as possible.
Your remaining engine always has enough power to get you to the scene of the accident.
Bob..twin piston aircraft lose 50 % of their power (obviously) when an engine fails..and 80% of its performance. Thats if the failed prop feathers as well too. So a good 600 hp (total) twin can end up with only 120 HP (performance wise)...with all that weight and drag. Figure into that, high weights, hot outside air (density altitude)...and you realise that the second engine can only buy you a little time. It is also known that you are more likely to kill yourself in a piston twin (especially in IMC) than in a single. Turbines on the other hand.....
Speed (and altitude) is life. The additional drag of full rudder deflection and the yaw nearly kills off all available power delivered from the surviving engine. Loss of “excess power” in a twin (engine-out) emergency sounds straight fwd but doesn’t really characterize the gravity of the situation as one flirts with VMC at low altitude. So many of these do NOT end well.
Many light twins can’t even hold 6000’ on a warm day with an engine out.
@@philipgibbs2015 we're learning from your post. Thanks
Not sure if my other post came through. i would love to see an accident view of the cessna 210 crash that you can see in the video "Final seconds of our PLANE CRASH *caught on camera"... there are a TON of great talking points that come up from that video. Thanks for the content, this is one of the very best aviation channels on youtube.
I haven’t seen that video.
@@FlyWirescottperdue Check it out, IMHO it's an incredibly detailed view of how NOT to manage an engine-out situation.
Thank you for sharing your knowledge, I could listen to you talk aviation all day.
I really like your analysis of this and other events you talk about. I'm a non-pilot aviation enthusiast.
Thanks Don, maybe I can convert you! Watch some of my other videos, flying is fun. Just be intentional.
@@FlyWirescottperdue Scott you would have no trouble converting me! Always wanted to, took lessons when younger but never soloed. Was more intimidated by radio work that other things. Took up flying paragliders in my early 30s and lived that but it didn't satisfy my desire to be doing the mechanical things like raising and lowering flaps , throttles etc. I'd love to learn but it will have to wait until I come out the other end of a medical pipeline I'm stuck in for awhile here!
Thanks again and safe flying!
Oh my dream job, wanted to fly military jets from the time I was a kid and all through HS. Army brat here so I might of been able to get a slot at the academy but after dad retired from the Army we moved back home to Oregon and I went to work for the PO for 37 years got out at 55.
Take care and I really enjoy all of your work and videos and look forward to the next while I catch up on your previous work!
Thanks Scott, a very spot on review. I'm an MEI and I teach in 310's. It's a wonderful airplane and I like it a lot. BUT, as with most multi engine airplanes, it will eat your lunch if you let it get to VMC close to the ground.
Thanks Mike, means a lot coming from you.
I listened to this on VAS Aviation before your video. I remembered thinking how calm this guy is while having engine problems.
Good job explaining.
I’m a owner and private pilot VFR.
I’m always learning something, thanks for sharing.
Thanks for watching!
This pilot got in his own way, by being casual about one engine out, and by not declaring an emergency. Once you declare, the sky is yours, and ATC will do whatever it takes to help you get on the ground safely.
I'd say that overconfidence caused this crash. First rule: Fly the plane, maintain control.
Can't help but wonder if he was reluctant to declare because of his 135 operation.
I love your channel. The Cessna 310, is about my favorite looking twin (aesthetically).
There were certainly a lot of baffling decisions that led to this nightmare accident. Thanks for a fine analysis.
When your heart skips a beat and that first surge of adrenaline kicks in, time to call emergency.
Thank you for your link to Josh FLowers Aviation 101 site for AQP in, Pt 135, and 91 operations. Dan Gryler has done a wonderful job with tons of effort to get this idea of advance recurrent training to the aviation community. As operations guy at Martin Air Field S-95 this is a subject close to my heart. We had a non-injury crash at our airport this summer with a stal-spin during a touch and go.
Thanks Ray!
It’s easy to play armchair quarterback, and obviously I wasn’t there in the airplane, but I’m thinking I would have declared a gone to KLAS. My heart goes out to the families and loved ones. Very informative video, great job. SteveD328, 23,000 hr ATP
Thanks Steve!
"No way to add energy back into the airplane" That's good and I'm going to use that. My favorite saying about what we do as pilots is we mitigate risk and manage energy.
Glad you got something to use... no charge;)
@@FlyWirescottperdue I usually get good stuff from your videos. We always should be learning stuff.
best thing a pilot ca do is get a sailplane rating.
Scott - this was the biggest takeaway for me, a 310R pilot. I knew that was the physics of it, but I hadn't really thought of it in those terms - that's there's a point where you can have all the power in the world, but it's useless. Thanks!
I think what I got out of it is that there was no way to add energy back into the aircraft in that situation, even though it had one operating energy producer...one that's way off the longitudinal axis. Because adding the required energy to stay in the air would result in loss of control due to exceeding the rudder authority available at that airspeed. It seems like the important thing with a twin then is to know when you get to that point, and immediately transition to a mindset of descent to landing off-airport as safely as possible...because climbing or adding energy is an option that has left the building...or a tank that has run dry...it's gone. And if at all possible, don't ever let that "tank" run dry. Don't get in that situation. But if you do, accept it and fly the aircraft, under control, to the ground. Don't take the death spiral. But I think if you're not real sure of where that point is, you could get into a state of denial..."I'm not going down. I can make the airport." Until she stops responding to the controls and to your utter shock, suddenly the blue side is down and you're all out of ideas.
I believe I did indeed learn something important here...although, I'm only a sim pilot. So...well...I have about 100 real hours, long ago. But I'll try it out in the Beech Baron or Cessna 340 in X-Plane 11 and see if such a situation is simulated well.
How about this for a wise saying? Airspeed is your god and altitude is your food. Keep an ample stock of food and always obey god.
Back in the '90s, I did see a real Piper Navajo climb to about 500 AGL after takeoff, and seeming normal, I looked away. A few seconds later someone said "look at that!" I looked back and saw it like the top-view of a 3-view drawing. It appeared to fly practically straight into the ground, or disappeared into the ground. Flew into a ravine. No dust cloud, no fireball, no smoke...like, "What happened to it?" But that speed and angle...I knew what happened. Apparently, one engine failed at a speed near or below Vmc, and it rolled over. I guess it rolled completely over and upright again, but then too low to pull out of the dive. I was just an observer, but that scene played and played in my head like instant replay and I couldn't shut it off for a day. Three people perished. It's traumatic.
Wow I can’t believe that I recognized old Capt. Perdue from the 1st TFTS, Tyndall AFB. It has been 30 years.
I’m still the same guy, or I think I am;)
@@FlyWirescottperdue Ill bet you are acquainted with Juan Brown over on Broncliero. your history's and way you look at these incidents is spot on.
Love your intro, retired F-4 and current F-15 Crew Chief.
Thanks for your service! I'm still in touch with my Crew Chief and Asst Crew Chief on my jet when I retired... 20+ years later. Great guys!
From wings level shallow decent to instant snap roll. Wow that was quick. We always practice recovery, but at altitude. Boy, that was quick. Sickening.
Scott, I could honestly listen to you talk for days. Your tone and delivery is so easy to listen to. These videos are very well done sir. Safe flying.
Wow, thank you!
Unfortunate to say the least, however I couldn't stop looking at the beautiful Bonanza in the background
Thanks, I've got videos of that airplane too.. .some of them upside down. Its down for major surgery right now, more videos to come!
Dude, I couldn't stop looking at that beautiful Stearman in the background!!
the old guy was a distraction... lol j/k
I've watched several of your youtube video's before finally clicking the SUSCRIBE button....this was a tragic story & video but thanks for the lesson....received my PPL in 1977 and still love flying....it's mostly pattern work now on perfectly clear, beautiful days....but I'm still "up there", in control and loving every minute of it...thanks again!
Thanks Bob! Keep flying!
Your videos are great teaching material. Thank you for the time you spend doing these analysis'.
Hi Scott
I was a young Frenchman, when one day , taking of from Houston hobby airport TX , for a cargo flight to Dallas love field.
I lost my brand new left engine ( only one day old) On the C 402 B.
Within seconds passing 300 feet I lost that new engine.
It stopped. They found out later that my crankshaft was broken in 3 pieces.
I tried to control my airplane and very fast realised that I was full right rudder with 5 degrees bank to the right Which On the C 402 unusual.
I watched in disbelief after doing my procedures , that the prop was not feathered.
I initially declared with departure a pan pan call.
I started to lose altitude slowly....around 200feet per minutes.my speed decayed fast and then my nose attitude increased.even with full power and nearly full aileron and rudder to the right.
That night ( 2am) I new I was cooked.....until I remembered, 5 months earlier , one old guy in a flying school telling its story that sounded like what I was experiencing.
He said he saved his life by lowering his gear , getting control of is plane back , and then putting it back up.
That night , I did the same as I did not have any options...............it worked.I was able to regain control , increase my speed , using less and less rudder and then miraculously climbing again.I landed in
Houston intercontinental, alive.
I still do not understand how creating more drag saved my life that night .but It did
never ever forgot that pilot.
Cheers from the French alps America which I miss very much
Great story, thanks for sharing!
Wow! Great job glad you made it.
@@chriscusick6890
You bet Chris….
This Texan gentleman saved my life , and he does not even know it.
Cheers from France America.👋
Great Job Scott. Im retired controller from Mccarren, the 220 heading for VGT deps is SOP to remain clear of LAS depts to the west. This turn put him in a direction away from a safe landing. The pilot may have limited his altitude to remain clear of the B. A simple emergency declaration would have completely resolved any B restrictions. The pilot should have landed at LAS rwy 19R after departing VGT 12R straight ahead to the Stratosphere then 19R. he would then be able to keep his altitude for safety. Never ever wait to declare an emergency, ATC is there to get you out of trouble if possible. ATC would have cleared all the runways asap! One other thing I heard from a pilot that was in the run-up area with the C310. he said the C310 was having problems with the run up. The C310 was in the run-up area 25-30 minutes trying to resolve the issues. He heard the engine issues while in that run -up area. Obviously it didn’t work out.
John, Thanks for watching and taking the time to add to the conversation. Your point of view is very valuable! And for my part if ti was me, I'd head for 19R, simple shallow right turn and you're on short final!
Since you're retired from LAS, can I ask an ATC question? Is LAS itself Class D airspace within the Class B surface area? I suppose the same question would apply to LSV. Does LSV have uncharted Class D airspace within the Class B, or is it better to think of both towers as towers surrounded by Class B airspace but not Class D? Thanks from a current Center controller who finds you Tower controllers more knowledgeable about these questions.
I love your videos, Scott. Your presentations are thorough, thoughtful, analytical and well put together. Thank you, subscribed and will continue to watch your excellent videos.
IMO, don't assume you just lost an engine for some simple isolated reason. Assume something like fuel contamination and make an immediate safe landing as if that other engine is just waiting to go out on you.
That possibly could have played a role here if indeed the good engine wasn't making full power that should have kept the airplane aloft. Maybe a good idea to assume that if you lost one engine you could lose the other one at any time.
Another excellent program, and again in simply understandable terms.
So many times very successful people, who are used to easily overcoming challenges, end up....
As always love your briefings. Even though I'm not a pilot I still feel like I've taken something away from it. Keep up the awesome work sir 👏
Always learning from other people’s mistakes...as long as you understand what happened. Nicely explained, as usual. Well done, Scott. Regards from Belgium.
Scott, of all the aviation channels on UA-cam I truly appreciate what you bring to the community. I find myself utilizing a lot of your tips and lessons during my flights with my family. I do things now that are new to my copilot (my wife) who has been flying with me for a long time and her regular comment to me is, "did you learn that from Scott?" As a relatively new Bonanza owner I value your content. Please keep up the good work and I look forward to future videos. Thank you!
Wow, thanks! I appreciate you sharing this with us!
Thanks for linking Dan Gryder's AQP via Flowers, and thanks much for all your time and effort here! If it saves 1 life it's worth it! This one was such a sad situation... you said it well. JMHO.. --gary
You bet! Thanks Gary.
The reluctance to declare an emergency is astounding to me. That is certainly an emergency situation.
Spent many years in the front and back seats of your Phantoms; alas, I wasn't flying, just maintaining the radar, hud and missile stations. Watching this video caused me to reflect on my time flying in and out of McCarran. I had passionately wanted to fly when I was training at NAS Memphis but a young poor enlisted guy with a child couldn't afford it. Years later, my daily flights back and forth from McCarran to Area 51 in the '80s cured me from wanting to fly or even wanting to step on an airplane. Several incidents stick in my memory: the pilot on one of the 737s we normally flew in told us that we had a hydraulic failure (anyone who has been around a Phantom can relate) and he was going to "slam dunk" it into McCarran. One very windy Sunday afternoon we were over the runway at McCarran in a King Air and I was sitting on window seat over the wing; when the aircraft suddenly rolled 90 degrees I was looking straight down at pavement. I was unusually unruffled, knowing we surely had an ex-fighter pilot at the controls -- he did roll out to level and we landed without further incident. Neither of those incidents scared me from flying, rather it was the 2-a-days in and out of McCarran that burned me out from wanting to fly again in any capacity.
A single hydraulic failure on a 737 is not a big deal. In my book, it would warrant declaring an emergency, but more for relief from ATC and FAR deviations than out of an actual need for priority handling. Also, I suspect your 90 roll was how it might have looked, but probably nowhere near what it really was. An upset of that magnitude would have resulted in considerable altitude loss. I would bet it was in the 45 to 60 degree range, which is certainly an eye opener.
I had looked into this accident earlier, you’ve added a lot of information and food for thought (and practice) in my flying.
Thanks Rob!
I really love the way you do these... Thanks for outstanding work, input to current pilots and very likely saving lives... Dave (retired airline pilot and CFI)
Such great analysis. Thanks!
Much appreciated!
Good work and good message ...in the Bush I often had to do below vmc takeoffs. I could never let go of the throttle to lift the gear until vmc. Multi or single emergency land ASAP...end of discussion.
I just found this channel. I have always loved flying but was never able to a pilots license. Love the analysis of this event. I am always in awe of your analytical break downs from you and from the pilots in comments.
Thanks for watching!
Awesome info Scott. I'dlove to hang out with you and just hanger talk....
I watched this video again after seeing the NTSB of what happened. I am not a pilot but I have watched several of your and other's videos and am amazed of the number of highly experienced pilots that make fatal mistakes when they probably know better. I have an old friend that I talk to about these crashes at the coffee shop in the mornings. He was an Air Force and Braniff pilot and he talks of the friends he's lost over the years that have died in crashes in the civil aviation world several in old warbirds, like P51s, when they were trying to do things the planes couldn't. He says they had too much testosterone and paid the price. Thanks for your videos, I'm sure they have saved some lives.
Thanks Charles, I hope so!
Great re-cap, I'm like you WHY didn't he "SIMPLY" land at the airport he took off from? he had plenty of options at that time, which diminished exponentially after that!
Impossible turn , that’s why .
@@Hugh1966
At ~1,000' agl and one good engine it was doable . . .
Not nick picking but he was such an experienced pilot and yet watched the airspeed get lower and lower. He knew what must come “VMC” yet let it happen. I hate these why, why, why accidents. Thanks Scott, another great one.
Excellent video - Once again! Keep ’em coming, I’ll be watching
I eat at the diner at North Vegas airport every week...great to see you're also in vegas. I was curious about this incident so I was glad to see a video of it and low and behold, you're in LV! This pilot made some horribly fatal decisions it seems...trying to be a Captain Sully cool as a cucumber and ended in a fireball...that's a damn shame for that passenger who had no way out. I'm also a local youtube channel growing quickly...if you ever want to hang at the diner, let me know! Would love to hear the B25 story.
KnightDrive, Thanks for commenting and watching. I don't live in Vegas but visit often... my daughter lives there and we usually eat at that cafe! The B25 video is coming out Sunday, stay tuned!
So sad that this happened,thanks for breaking this down.
Your videos should be used for emergency training add-ons! Very informative! Thanks for uploading and sharing your thoughts! Complacency seems to be the killer here...
Wow! My Girlfriend told me about this crash the day it happened. I didn’t follow after the early details and discovered from this video this was an old dear friend of mine. I knew the tail number because I’ve flown in this plane many times and simply thought maybe my friend sold it. Clearly not the case, Sadly! To hear his voice and see the clip is chilling! But, Scott you are spot on and I can only scratch my head. Bob was a high time pilot and I helped him many times at his business years ago. Always professional and always Extra safe from my experience. I have time in several aircraft in his fleet including this one. I’ve lived in Vegas for three years now and this is no way to reconnect with an old friend.
Rest In Peace and Blue Skies Bob!!
That line in the before-departure checklist that calls out a copilot and passenger briefing is important even if you are the only person on board. It is always about what do we do if the engine quits, or if any other problem occurs during flight. Plus it isn’t a bad idea to talk about where we are going and approx for how long.
Sad honestly, to me a an engine failure or even one engine running rough on a twin is scary enough to declare an emergency
Another excellent analysis Scott! As in so many things....mindset is the most important 'skill' you can possess and your videos demonstrate this effectively. I hope lots of people learn from others mistakes because sadly there are many that you don't get to learn from if you don't survive. I had seen the other video about this accident and had some questions...which you just answered. Thanks again.
Thanks Rob!
Excellent! Thank you. It is always easy as 0kts on the couch and make a judgement but these videos give an excellent path to a better outcome than this tragedy.
You are exactly right! Take the time to learn from some Hangar Talk and someone else's mistakes!
@@FlyWirescottperdue Do you think flight sims fail to convey the proper level of danger involved in certain situations? How about wiring the pilot to a taser?
@@johnsherman7289 Actually I do. Sims are great for procedures.
Outstanding Human Factors analysis.
I have no experience in twins (Cessna 170), and this is all speculation, but considering he held altitude and speed going around Vegas could it also be possible instead of an immediate engine loss on take off he had a partial power loss on take off then completely lost the engine at the point he requested direct to Henderson? Or perhaps that is where the good engine also started going bad since he started losing speed and altitude? Either way, I totally agree about declare an emergency and go to closest field, whether it is the airport you took off from or a controlled landing in a field or road where he ended up. Love the information you provide in all your videos, great education for those of us still low time pilots.
Read a story in flying magazine in about 1967 about a 310 in the mountains, lost an engine and could not climb over a ridge so he lowered the nose to look for a good place to land and he gained 20 kt and the plane started to climb so he went back to an airport.
Another example of the adage... ‘Speed is Life!’
Great video! You are saving peoples lives! Keep it up - Blessings - Adam
I am very glad to have come across your video today. As an aspiring aviation enthusiast I found your analysis of this accident very valuable. I’m terribly sorry for the loss of the two lives where the outcome could’ve been so different. I would feel very comfortable flying with you in that beautiful Bonanza after listening to your reasoning and your calm explanation of the events leading up to this tragedy. You have a new subscriber Sir.
Thanks Greg, welcome aboard!
I worked the flight line at San Clemente Island. He was one of the few air charters with approval to land there so I knew him and have watched him make several bad decisions including landing with weather below minimums, landing when the field was closed coming close to maintainers working on the arresting gear and damaging the leading edge of his wing by hitting a fire bottle and took off with no inspection. However tragic, it seems there was a trend there
Wow, thanks for sharing!
I spent some time out there on San Clemente with HS 85. Loved it.
@@wagg8989 I was the line/fuels Chief for 3 years. It wasn’t bad, I had some fun times at the ol salty crab. 😂
Scott. On Thanksgiving morning I was practicing emergency procedures over Hollister Ca. Tons of big ag. So lots of fields and options. I was still task saturated as my cfi called the emergencies. Even with the airport a couple miles away, being at pattern altitude put the most viable options below us. This pilot's (rip) demeanor on the mic was so relaxed? If I was losing engine power whether I had two or four I hope I would declare an emergency. It reminds me of that one AOPA analysis of the guy that flew right by a military base runway. Spoke to their controller but didn't tell her he was out of gas?? He then ran dry eight miles past and spun out. You have to stay humble up there. Always great content! Thanks.
Thanks Jon, great story!
I talked to a guy at north LV, he said before take off they were having fuel valve issues
Can you elaborate?
I was the man inside the trailer when the plane crashed. I was interviewed by an FAA official after the crash and told him that I thought it might have been a helicopter crash because I heard one engine operating at what appeared to me as full power, but I heard what I would identify as a slower propeller sound similar to a helicopter blade turning at a slower speed, then a thud, crash and explosion into my fence and the feel of the searing heat coming in to my office trailer window behind me. At the scene I showed the FAA inspector a lower faring from the right engine with oil spray on the inside. This piece of the plane escaped the fire, but not the crash. The inspector identified the right engine had no oil cap but the left engine had its cap. The plane may have been inverted upon impact and the engine location may have been difficult to determine at that time.
Thanks for sharing!
Trading speed for altitude until the laws of physics catches up...Great words !
Another homerun Scott!!!! I really appreciate your excellent analysis.
Much appreciated!
I think he may have forgot one of the cardinal rules, Murphy's Law. "If something can go wrong it will and at the worst possible time." If the second engine was failing, Murphy had arrived on cue. For that reason in any power loss situation the option should always be to land at the nearest airport, irrelevant of any other consideration. His was not the first time that a delay in the decision to land a stricken aircraft results in a fatal crash. Great analysis very eloquently and accurately presented. Many lessons in that.
When a critical situation occurs you don't always react as you should or were trained to react. I've been there.
Thank you for all this inf.
Thanks, another great analysis!
Another great educational video Scott.
Another good debrief, Scott. Thank you. Lots for us all to learn. On another note, that is a BEAUTIFUL Stearman! Have you been to Galesburg with it?
Dan, thanks! I've been to Galesburg, but not 476. I had an engine failure coming home from Oshkosh in 2003 and don't go XC with it anymore;)
@@FlyWirescottperdue I have lots of good memories up in Galesburg. I grew up there, got my private there and my brother had a Stearman he'd take to the Fly In for many years. I miss the music of those radial engines flying overhead each September.
This was a well thought-out video going over the situation that the pilot found themselves in, and why their decisions ultimately made the situation worse. As with most accidents, it's a chain of events and decisions, not one single event.
I appreciate that Sakumi!
Scott, I had a similar situation with a different outcome. My best friend had over 3000 hours in a 340 and started flying a 310 for hire from a flight school out here. He let me come along and do all the flying, he then convinced me to get my multi comm inst ticket so I did. After that we continued to fly together, I only had about 60hours multi at that point. I was very afraid of VMc and we had a flight for hire one day, 2 passengers in the back. I took off of an 11,500ft runway to the south, blue line (VYse) + 10 off the ground and blue line + 20 cruise climb. We were climbing fast that day (1700fpm), my flight was to go north after taking off to the south. At my crosswind turn I was 1200 agl and lost the right engine. My friend was pilot monitoring and handling radios. Before I even said hey we lost the engine he keyed the mic “Mayday Mayday Mayday .....” i thought wow that was fast. I stopped the climb and went through memory items and had prop feathered, then said I have the interstate (which was right under us with no need to turn) if we need it, but I was already in downwind for the south runway. He said maintain what you have (alt) until turning final if you can. Well I could easily, speed was increasing slowly in level flight to about 140. He said in an emergency we tell the controllers “ME FIRST” they get paid to deal with everything else. I turned final at 1200 agl, our runway is 11,500 so I had plenty of runway. I pulled the power off got the rudders back to normal (for single engine pilots, even if you have the prop feathered there is still rudder correction and it is very strange when you bring the power out, it is all reverse rudder) and just glided down while putting gear back down and 1 notch of flaps. I flew down at 110 to the numbers and just held it off, just like normal landing. Everything was a non event except all the firetrucks, lol. But there was no way in the world I was getting even close to red line (VMc), I would land anywhere first. My friend taught me that as pilot monitoring getting on the radio is something you do immediately, not something you think about and if I would have been by myself, you fly the airplane first just as if you declared emergency, talk last. If they see you coming back even though you have not said a word, they know something is not right. Who cares about FAA paperwork at that point. You want to live and provide safety for your passengers. Funny thing after we landed the passengers didn't really know what happened. Their audio was isolated from ours at that time. I am very afraid of red line, that is like play Russian roulette with the cylinder fully loaded. It is sure death to me. Anyway a real non event and I was glad he was there, sitting back chewing on a tooth pick acting as if it was just another training flight for me. Totally relaxed, I got to see how a real pilot handles things. I only have 1100 hours and only 100ish multi. I am learning all the time, I have so much to learn. Love your channel, 310 pilot and Baron Pilot. I am very humbled flying a twin and I absolutely love it. When I retire, I will be getting a P58. I was asked one time if I would take a flight for hire in that 310 by myself cause my friend was busy. I said “NO”. For me, I was not ready. Flying twins like going from high school football to NFL. Huge learning curve. Can be done but you have to sit on the bench for a while. Thanks for the video again.
Love the actual numbers you provide. The highest ADS-B speed was 131MPH in this accident. HOW can that be, especially with a feathered prop? I think some jet A was added to his avgas.
Excellent story Monte, thanks for posting!!
Scott, I always appreciate your thorough and methodical dissection of these accidents and incidents. I would add that it's refreshing to listen to someone who obviously is a truly professional aviator (not a "hacker"). As pilots we simply must be willing to learn from the mistakes of other pilots - your videos are a most helpful (and needed) resource in that regard. Please keep up the good work!
Thanks I appreciate that!
I love this channel. Always come away with something to make me a better pilot.
Love your work,videos and channel 😁😉👍✈🦅Thanks F-15 Captain 😮😁😉
I used to own a 310H. As long as you kept your speed above VMCa, the airplane flew beautiful on one engine. Even doing VMC demo training was unremarkable. I miss that airplane but I don't miss paying for 130 gallons of Avgas.
Speed is life!
Great review and analysis Scott. Always enjoy your analysis. Hoping you do a review of the recent Bonanza accidents in Virginia and Alabama.
YOU seem like an NTSB investigation, from the outside. If we only all har that mindset !😎
Thanks Paul!
great video Scott
Excellent analysis for a very tragic accident. Thank you.
Well explained, with lots of good advice. Some of it is basic piloting reminders and some of it is just plain common sense. But always good to be reminded -- especially when accompanied by an analysis where a pilot who didn't heed these things paid with his life. Hate to hear it but it makes us safer. RIP to the two who died.
In my flight training, I was never “trained” on specific criteria when to declare an emergency and we never practice doing it. Maybe in the spirit of AQP, we need to have some, thought about ahead of time, criteria for what is an emergency and practice declaring one. For example, one of my personal criteria is that if I can’t maintain VFR minimums on a VFR flight, it’s an emergency.
Nick, you criteria is right for VFR mins. Maybe you have an idea for another video.
20:49 a powerful rapidfire expression of essentials.
I am not a pilot, but is seems that too many times in these crashes, the pilot does not declare an emergency, as if they feel they don’t need to. In my opinion, better to declare the emergency and live to fly another day.
Unfortunately too true!
Giving away to your passenger/customer that there's an emergency, which might give them the feeling their life is in danger is something many pilots flying small aircraft will try to avoid, so might not want to use the E word on the radio in case the passenger might hear it. They might know they are in deep .... but keep their cool for the passengers.
In this case, the pilot itself might not have been overconfident, but he might just have wanted his passenger to think there was nothing big going on. After all, from what I get from the video, it was his own company he was flying for, so he had to keep the reputation of his company in mind too. If he hadn't crashed, he would probably have been praised online for staying cool and not making an engine failure a big deal and just calmly diverting to another airfield. But now that he didn't make everybody will criticize that he didn't declare an emergency instantly. Specially today, with everybody online judging, and the media attention to emergency landings, I can imagine that a company owner might not want the first google results when people google his company to be about an emergency landing due to an engine failure,
Personally, I'd probably declare an emergency if the engine even started to sound a little strange, just to get back on the ground at the nearest airfield.. Better check it out and troubleshoot it on the ground than in the air imho.
In this case, in theory it shouldn't have ended like this, so I hope they will be able to find out what was going on up there so we can all learn from it.
Declaring an emergency doesn’t solve your problem. Fly the airplane and make a plan. Declare an emergency when you can and it’s appropriate
@@EM_life-gr8sn All too often it is the mindset that is missing. Aviate, navigate, communicate... in that order.
Also there's a lot of straight highways all around Henderson, lots of em !