30-year airline Captain here with a major and just had a failed engine on a 737 during climb-out. Scott your instruction is top notch. I give you the highest praise. Good CRM, SOP, not rushing and verifying everything makes an emergency quite manageable. We did such a good job that even the FAA sent a letter of congrats. And it's because of exactly what you are saying Scott. Train. Train. Train. Know that the Captain makes mistakes and needs an engaged First Officer that is comfortable pointing out errors. Thank you for all your work with this sir. I think you save a lot of pilot's lives in your work here. Chuck
"Know that the Captain makes mistakes and needs an engaged First Officer that is comfortable pointing out errors." The big lesson of the Tenerife disaster.
My father was a PBY pilot in WWII. He continued to fly Beechcraft Barons and Cessna 206 amphibian into his Mid 70's. He's gone now, but in the twin Beech he would quiz me and harp on me to "always turn into the good engine" and "make sure you feather the "bad" engine. His aviation career was accident free, but hearing your words reminded me that even 40 years past his naval aviator training, he never forgot the rules. Thank you. Craig
I'm a retired Naval Aviator. I find your videos exceptional. Your logic is dead on. I haven't heard you say anything yet that I don't agree 100% with. Thanks for the share.
I'm 79 and I know what the problem is with people who voluntarily are in it for the fun, the excitement and the nostalgia. They don't really give a damn. They're retired, well off, and don't like catering to the demands of others let alone rules and regs. If you've escaped the Grim Reaper at least once you may have taken a lesson. If your britches have always been lucky safety awareness has never really taken station in your mind. A safety culture is a social regime that has to be taught, practiced and supported continuously. It doesn't come naturally because human weakness dictates avoidance of discomfort. Great presentation, Scott.
Never shut down an engine that is still producing power unless it is on fire and then not below 400 feet. I ran into a bunch of geese at rotation with a 737 freighter at max gross, the left engine was destroyed but would still run at reduced power. The weather was at minimums and we had to climb over a populated area, it would have been difficult on one but 1 and a quarter worked. We returned to land again at minimums and shut down the engine taxing in. The most important point is keep flying the aircraft. There is an old saying that fits this accident. He ran out of speed, power and ideas all at the same time. We had the benefit of simulator training, however training and procedures will tend to resolve a bad situation. Also I want to mention what we called crew resource management. Two heads are four times better than one. JMHO 18,000 hours 13 engine failures, no accidents.
Having flown the EAA B-17 a little over a year ago and just a short time before this crash, it was an amazing experience and I hope it continues. I must say that the EAA did it right. We waited a couple hours for good weather. We got a full preflight briefing. The pilots were not rushed even with the two hour delay. And a full run-up was done. It was an amazing flight made even better by having onboard with us a 94 year-old man who was shot down in a B-17 and spent the last several months of the war as a POW. I have to admit that the thought crossed my mind that it would be the ultimate irony if this man were to have survived a parachute jump from a B-17 during war only to be killed on a B-17 flight during peacetime. Thankfully, that did not happen and we all had a great time talking with him before and after the flight.
I’m not an experienced enough aviator to judge anyone but, I’ve been an executive long enough to see when an organization is in trouble. I think the real cause is really two things, and none of them have anything to do with the aircraft: 1. The organization had become to dependent on a single individual. One person was chief pilot, director of maintenance, mechanic, and check airman. He also had so much experience and clout that no one was going to question him. 2. The FAA totally failed. I’m sure the FSDO manager has a list of excuses as long as your arm but, the bottom line is no one was providing any oversight on this organization or its operations.
Nick, I think you've got it. This is a channel for aviators so, as pilots, they naturally focus on how to deal with the hand they are dealt. Nothing wrong with that. But, as you say, the original sin in this tragedy is far removed from failing magnetos, or failing engines. The crash investigators published 1200 pages of technical details. This shouldn't be a distraction. The Foundation set about to honor the courage of the men and their machines. In the event, they allowed processes which ultimately destroy the machines they seek to preserve, as well as the very benefactors needed to sustain their highly admirable intentions. Que lastima!
He could not be that experienced. He couldn’t handle a simple problem. No checklists, emergency procedures etc. 75 years old flying a 4 engine bomber 75 years old. Heck in few years he could possibly not drive a car. What a shit show.
I've flown in 3 different B-17's as part of these living history rides. They are some of my favorite memories in my life. But as a recently retired Industrial Maintenance Technician with over 25 years of experience this scares the heck out of me. All through my professional career I've had to deal with what I like to call the " Cowboy Mentality". It's just Hurry up and get it done. Safety , protocols and rules out the window. Anything, at all cost to avoid the extra paperwork , trouble reports and meetings to report to management. If I made a big deal out of not following our own rules then I was the problem. R.I.P Nine-oh-Nine her crew and passengers who passed. Sorry for your loss.
Good comment. Sometimes too many shortcuts are taken in the interest of expediency. Yet, weigh that with what has happened recently with the rollout of vaccines. They precluded much bureaucratic flotsam and jetsom to get them going. It's awkward and fast, but will save lives if done correctly.
It’s easy to second guess or be a critic, but in the interest of symmetry, I would have engines that have very close SMOH numbers. And “ Don’t bother cinching up the seatbelts?” What the hell?
When management blames you for what you have to repair. I had one engineer that actually said “where there is a technician there is a breakdown, we need to get rid of the technicians”
@@nancychace8619 Bullshit! No safety protocols have been bypassed for the vaccines against Covid-19. Stop spreading that crap, it's getting thousands of people killed by unfounded fear of vaccines. Bloody stupid to bring such off topic things into a discussion about aviation.
Scott, just finished your well explained video and as a former command pilot with 11years and 400 hrs in a B17G I found this sad story to be spot on. In an aircraft of this size low and slow is a recipe for failure and a very bad outcome ! As your aware during your yearly PPE ck ride each command pilot must show proficiency in engine out scenarios which include instrument approaches with two engines at zero thrust on the same side . A missed approach at DH is doable but you need airspeed , some altitude and a clean aircraft plus CRM...crew resource management ! In this particular case those golden three letters ( CRM ) could have saved lives and a very precious aircraft ! The Museum I was involved with was indeed part of the that History of Flight program and without exception the FAA inspectors that jump seated during those ck rides were not in tune with the program nor had any knowledge of that aircraft . Is was not uncommon to have them sit in the back and not ever question the ck pilot giving the PPE but they sure took time to look over the paperwork for anything they could bitch about. Again you were spot on pointing out the mistakes made and any one of which could have saved the day and lives. How many have perished by shutting down an engine that is still producing power ? My advise was if is still turning and not burning fly it to the scene of the crash as it might give you that little extra so you can walk away if your in that critical phase of flight. The ride program as we called it 20 plus years ago served two purposes, give the people a real chance to first hand experience history and also generate revenue for the Museum. Now that aircraft ( Fuddy Duddy ) is part of another Museum and most likely will never fly again and I’m afraid this tragic loss of 909 will have a negative effect on the future of any WW2 aircraft ride program . Thanks for the great videos
I'm a long retired USAF research pilot and flight examiner with a background in fighters from the F-86 thru the F-111 and 4 engine birds - almost all versions of the C/KC/EC-135. Scott's presentation is spot-on. The pilot kept power up on 1 & 2 even as speed decreased until he completely ran out of rudder authority. Had he chopped power, he would have landed short but it would likely have been survivable. As an interesting B-17 sidelight, remember the early pre-war B-17's (the one with the stripes on the tail). They lacked a dorsal fin and as a result were a bear to fly with an outboard engine failure. Sudden yaw could produce a full fin stall at 17 degrees beta (sideslip angle). A dorsal fin was added to the later models which went nearly to the radio compartment. This low aspect dorsal extended full fin stall to nearly 29 degrees and undoubtedly saved many WWII crews experiencing engine failure, considering their many low time pilots.
Credentials: 24 year flying career in tactical jets, USMC, USN, ANG. 20 year career with Part 121 carrier, 737, 747, 757, 767, and DC-10, type rated in all but 747. I had recently viewed other podcast videos on this accident before I watched yours. They pretty much matched your analysis, point by point, all good information for preventing another tragedy like this one. The one surprising difference in your report, Scott, was your clear and unambiguous assertion that the PIC feathered the wrong engine, probably because of his personal bias created by his past personal experience with the balky performance history of engine number four. I would speculate that this mistake was most likely exaacerated by the fact that his extensive general aviation career did not include the simulator and CRM training he would otherwise have received had he been a Part 121, Part 135, or US military transport/tanker/ bomber pilot. He, the Foundation, and the Feds made a lot of mistakes here which all contributed to this very preventable tragedy. "The system" failed him and the others on board who perished unnecessarily: 1. The FAA FSDO that egregiously failed to provide appropriate oversight of the Foundation's maintenance and flightcrew training; 2. The Foundation's failure to exercise its own responsibility for training and monitoring its flight operations and maintenance functions. With the recent tragic midair collision at Dallas, and this very unfortunate crash at Bradley, we have lost multiple lives, two precious irreplaceable B-17s, and a P-63 King Cobra. I get it that these warbird operations are profoundly important from the historic preservation and public interest standpoints, but also that keeping them flying is an incredibly expensive proposition. Because of the associated financial considerations, there are all kinds of incentives to cut corners, fudge procedures, and pencil whip flight training, safety management, and aircraft maintenance integrity. If we want to preserve this very valuable warbird institution, all of us in aviation need to look in the mirror and clean up our own acts, or our overweening government is going to shut us all down, not just the warbirds and living history flights for hire. I suggest starting with AQP for all general aviation pilots, while buying in to a universal safety culture that will reduce the accident rate and save many lives. We know how to do it if we really want to. Scott, your perspective and voice are an essential component of the solution, so keep it up, Brother!
I read the transcript of the loadmaster's testimony -- it's heartbreaking how little he knew about operations and maintenance. He was receiving "OJT" from his boss and he obviously didn't realize how lax the protocols were. God bless those lost and their families, but also bless this poor man, who has to live with the consequences.
read the testimony in the latest NTSB report from both sides of this coin. makes the premise of trusting big brother to run things efficiently out with the bathwater. all of the alphabet institutions (faa, fbi, etc) need to be cleaned out and the top couple floors of each hq removed, charged, and fired. data.ntsb.gov/Docket?ProjectID=100356
I also flew on the Collins Foundation B-17 out of the York (Thomasville) PA airport almost 20 years ago. My uncle had served in the 8th Air Force as a "toggle-lier" on a B-17. It gave me an appreciation of what a crew experienced . It is tragic that lives were lost in this accident. It will be tragic to not have the opportunity to fly again in vintage planes if this accident makes the liability too costly. We may only be able to see them fly by or on static display. As an aviation enthusiast (not a pilot), I respect your take and insight into the root causes of the accident. This again shows the series of bad decisions, not just one, that has fatal consequences. My deepest sympathy to all of the families.
I watched Juan's latest video on this crash. As always, it was very informative, but you just eclipsed him greatly. Filled in a lot of holes. Good job Scott.
@@LTVoyager Read the report... I didn't make it up Vintage Radials took the engines apart and they said #3 had undergone severe detonation and was not producing significant power. The engineer who examined the performance also verified that. Read the Docket yourself.
@@FlyWirescottperdue I did not say either you or Juan made up anything. I said I wondered who was right. I have read the docket and it is not clear to me which engine was producing the least power. #3 showed signs of detonation, which can cause loss of power, but generally not a huge loss until permanent damage occurs. Even it if lost 20% of its output, that leaves 80% which is still quite useful. #4 had a completely dead left mag due to the internal short to the case. And the right mag was not firing cylinder #8 at all and was “weak and intermittent” on the remaining 8 cylinders. If we figure the dead mag cost say 10% power loss that leaves 90% left. Losing cylinder 8 means we lose 1/9 of that power at least (generally losing cylinders does not result in a linear power loss, but more than linear) which means we are now down to 80% power. Factor in that the sparks on the right mag were weak and intermittent to cylinders 1-7 and 9 and we likely lose another 10-50% power which means engine #4 might have been producing 50% power or less. That is likely much less than what was being produced by #3 even if detonating. So, if Mac shut down #4, I tend to agree that this likely was the right choice as it was likely the engine producing the least power. However, I don’t see any way to know with certainty which engine was actually the laggard and thus whether he made a good or bad choice in shutting down #4 vs #3. As an engineer, I tend to not speculate and base my opinions on the data. From what I have read thus far, I don’t think there is sufficient data to say which of #3 or #4 was in worse condition on that flight.
I’ve been around Aviation my whole life; even serve in the Air Force. But I don’t claim to be a SME, or anything of the sort. In May 2019 I was volunteering with the Airdales providing ground ops for the D-Day Squadron. They were forming up and practicing at Oxford airport in Waterbury Connecticut. During one of the morning briefings before a formation flight, lead pilot to the CAF’s C-47 “That’s All Brother” Doug Rozendaal said something that stuck with me; it is especially true in this situation or for any historic flying. “Our fathers had to fly, we chose to”...let that sink in. Just because a crew chief in ww2 would keep these planes flying with beer cans, rubber bands and bubble gum. Does not mean that’s safe, or how it needs to be done today. Proper maintenance is essential to safety, as is crew coordination and communication, and training. All of which is mute now for 909, but hopefully wakes up any other warbird organization or any aviator as to what can happen if they cut corners.
That's right, and that's also part of the reason that of all the losses that the 8th Air Force had in WW2 a full one third of them were due to accidents. I've been working on motorcycles for a living for over 30 years and I'm constantly stressing to people that maintenance on them should be done with the same standards that aircraft are maintained with because there's almost as much at stake and the same forgiveness of errors.
Thanks for the great report, Scott. My take on this since the preliminary report came out was that there were multiple serious failures in maintenance procedures, so serious that Collings should never again be allowed to fly passengers in their planes. Now you've added the very poor decisions by the pilot, who was very experienced in the B-17. All in all, just an accident waiting to happen. Also, I boarded that plane for a flight about a year before that. They had trouble starting one engine (likely for the reason you explained) and they had all of us leave the plane until they fixed the problem. I decided to not get back on.
Yes, probably good choice. According to his copilot, my dad flew his shot-up B-24 to a safe landing in England in 1944. Two engines shot out by 100 ME109s on one side. April 8, 1944. The day that nearly prevented my existence. I believe I saw this plane in Watsonville and Half Moon Bay years ago. Never had the desire, certainly not the nerve, to fly with Collins. Another good choice. Imagine flying several hours standing on right rudder while the crew chucks everything out the window. Only one died, as he held his heater wire, not the rip cord. He was tail gunner and was in shock from a 20mm to the tail. I think he should have been kept aboard. But that is Monday-morning quarterbacking.
I think there was panic in those last seconds. Adding power to the left engines was a knee-jerk reaction to hitting the runway lights to get a bit of altitude. It just induced a right yaw which there was no recovery from.
@@eclipser2004 You may well be right, but panic has no place in a pilot's repertoire. We, and especially a very experienced pilot like that one, should be able to handle whatever happens without panic. Possibly unsuccessfully, but still without panic.
Possibly the best narration (and explanation) of the events of Nine O Nine's crash yet. I was reasonably sure that the main failures were that they turned into the dead engine(s) and that the aircraft was too low and too slow to achieve a safe landing. Of course, throw in a pilot error, (feathering the wrong engine) and there they were, outside the flight envelope, and unable to make a controlled landing.
I’m a non-pilot that enjoys listening to aviators discuss the profession. I want to compliment your presentation, media, and information; all because they added to my knowledge. Well done especially for we lay followers.
In 2013, my wife and I flew on a B17, the Texas Raider. She was built in 1945 and the experience is still fresh in my mind. The plane has a timeless design both elegant and intimidating at the same time, the engineering, just over four decades removed from the first powered flight, is still awe inspiring. Most importantly, it connects us to the greatest generation and the courage and sacrifice of those airman. Walking on the catwalk, over the bomb bay doors, cracked enough to see the ground below, is a memory I will never forget. The flight crew was amazing, their knowledge impressive and the history so important to maintain for posterity. Despite this tragedy, we need to preserve these remaining historical, functioning museums at all costs. Scott, you do an amazing job with your channel. Truly exceptional work.
Thank you Scott. As a former Navy nuke officer, safe operating culture was something drilled into us and enforced by Rickover on down with ne'er an exception. You can easily see the 909 failure trail from your analysis, and that culture allowed this trail. Real accidents are actually rather rare; we create them by shortcuts. This crash was only a matter of time, given the lack of respect for safety and procedures. Again, nice work in your analysis. It centers on the key cause(s) of the incident.
Nine-O-Nine was like a seasonal marker where I live, floating by and casting its radial rumble through the sky for a few days each year. Did the tour a couple of times, talked with a couple of B-17 veterans and got their stories. Some good historical artifacts on display including flight briefing notes with sketches in a small loose leaf notebook. Took a friend of mine who was able to get some video of a landing for his stepfather, who was shot down over Vienna in a B-24. Hearing of the loss of Nine-O-Nine made a very sad day.
My last great memories with my Dad before he passed was a flight on 909. He started to decline within a year or so after our flight. I am so thankful that we were able to share that experience.
Watched a number of videos on the 909 crash and this fills in a number of gaps and points out the gross errors. As a young boy I drew pics of a B-17 in flight and came to love them. Lived in Schweifurt and was 3rd Inf Div Engr on the former Luftwaffe base for 20 months and got the German view of the raid. Touched the Memphis Belle when she was partially covered on the Island under the "tent" in Memphis. Passed "Prestons Pride: in Tulare, CA for years on Highway 99 and so glad to hear she was restored. Sad to hear about this loss of a great airplane and now the FULL story of what really happened. Thanks. These WWII aircraft must be preserved.
I simply scratch my head and wonder in disbelief at how maintenance protocols are ignored on a vintage airplane. Some of the info coming out about this crash is unbelievable.
Easy. Old guy, tons of hours and experience. A little complacency sets in, minor trouble arises, he handles it. Gets away with it. No oversight. Rinse and repeat. Works great.....until it doesn’t.
Whenever we talk about a pilot who has been killed in a flying accident, we should all keep one thing in mind. He called upon the sum of all his knowledge and made a judgment. He believed in it so strongly that he knowingly bet his life on it. That his judgment was faulty is a tragedy, not stupidity. Every instructor, supervisor, and contemporary who ever spoke to him had an opportunity to influence his judgment, so a little bit of all of us goes with every pilot we lose. - author unknown
I flew on EAA's Aluminum Overcast just a few days prior to the 909 crash, it was an incredible once in a lifetime experience, truly an amazing flight. The crew was very professional, full briefing, got to sit up front for the take off. I'm a private pilot, flew my own Champ to where the ride was, just an amazing day to fly, and to fly on such an amazing aircraft. Really made me think about what it was like for the guys flying these planes during ww2. Crazy. The 909 crash but a damper on the memory of my flight, I had hoped the cause was not anyone's fault but all along I wondered why he didn't declare an emergency and land ASAP. Thanks for the great report.
I flew on B17 9o9 on its last trip to Ft. Lauderdale in 2018. I bought two tickets for my girlfriend and i and it was the best $900. i ever spent. Made this 50 year old feel like a little kid doing the funnest thing everrr. One this day, everything ran perfect, and the plane flew great with no engine problems. My experience was no different than what a WWII crew member would have experienced. I was not on a commercial airliner, nor did i want it to be like that. I want to feel a B17 in its true glory and i did. I took plenty of video footage of the flight from engine start, takeoff and landing. One day i will make a movie of it and upload it to youtube. I really look forward to riding on B24 Witchcraft as soon as it's able to get back in the air. Prayers to the Collings Foundation and crew, RIP to the victims.
I happened to be driving by and saw the B-17 flying South just in the tree line that day. It wasn't in the trees but that there were trees between me the plane. To step back a bit, at 9:30am that mornnig I received a phone call that my mother had just passed away and I told my sister that I would be going home to get changed and then heading to my mothers house. My intent that day was to stop and photograph the war birds after work and had all my photo equipment in the back of my car. I was traveling West on Rte 20 when I saw the B-17 and thought it must have just taken off being so low. When I got to the end of the runway it had just crashed into the building by the end of the runway and there was a huge fireball rising up into the sky. The ironic part of this whole incident was that my mother is English and was born and raised in London where she met my father who was a crew chief on a B-17 bomber. during WW2. I recently found out that my father was one of only 7 crew chiefs awarded the Bronze Star for maintaining a bomber with no missed mission due to mechanical issues.
Scott, I have not watched Juan's video's or anybody else's take on this accident except for yours. I know you have time in a B25 and I figured you might have the best understanding of the situation. I am puzzled by the amount of shortfalls that led up to this huge failure!! I appreciate you taking your valuable time to sift through endless stacks of paperwork to help us understand the truth. I never want living history flights to end, but I want them to be safe for people to enjoy! Seems like there is a lot of flak to fly through to make these flights safe again on so many levels!! Great job on this video.
Your empathy with the crew AND the passengers strikes a deep chord with me. This concise, non judgmental explanation was spot on. And as an aside, I am an engineer, a railroad train driver, and a tinkerer with all and master of none kind of guy.Oddly enough, once I learned the engine(s) were not coming apart, causing damage to the airframe, and as close as they were to the airport, why kill either of them? Seems like every erg would have come in very handy to keep the craft flying. Even if the "bad" engines were just making a HP or two, killing an engine was just a wrong decision. I am inwardly pleased that your knowledgeable comments confirmed my advanced piddler's theory. Killing engines, not going for the nearest runway, early wheels down, not chopping the power... From this armchair it seems any one might have made the difference. But I wasn't there, and I regret the loss of even one life. So very sad. Thanks again for the illumination!
Scott, this is excellent! From watching Juan’s video, I couldn’t figure out why losing one engine would be such a huge power loss. Going back to culture, I think it is great that Mac knew the most about these machines in the Collings organization, but that is also a weakness because there is no one to verify or question his judgement. Sadly, very sadly, we now know his judgement was flawed and he made hasty assumptions. I’m looking forward to Juan’s Part 2 video as well. I’m a mechanic by trade and was appalled at the state of those magnetos. My beat up old ‘71 Volkswagen has better ignition parts on it and I’m on the ground with no passengers.
I work near the airport and fly out of BDL often. I had a look at the crash site several times from a distance and heard second hand stories from witnesses and a relative of one of the victims. The situation never added up until I watched this video. Thank you for your research and professional insight. Prayers for those hurt and lost in this senseless tragedy.
Same here Christopher. I have help to run airshows over the past 20 years where Colling's planes were the attraction. I also have known Mac (and others from Collings) for those 20 years. I was also trying to add up what I could find out and none of it was making sense other than "there were engine problems..." and "they hit lights...and deicing tanks.." Scott has done an excellent for us who love these planes and young, now old men who flew them.
Scott, watched this a second time today after being so impressed the first time I watched it in December. Your analysis is SO IMPRESSIVE, and you bring up so many valuable pointers and insight. THANK YOU for your devotion to accurate reporting and digging into the details.
This was a very good description of the problems that all safety programs experience - the pressure to show a profit. I've been an electrical engineer for 50 years and as part of the work I was responsible for designing a safe system. I was always question on my designs because I followed the National Electrical Code. Virtually no one knows the Code and no one enforces it. Well, no one until an accident occurs. I fear that until women rule to world men will always think with their balls and someone will go through the meat grinder because of it. None the less, it is important work you're doing to bring these points home. Thanks for that.
This lecture is outstanding. It topics most, of not al contributions. Never, never fly with an aircraft which is not properly maintained. The margins are then already eroded away when you need them.
I'm fascinated by this as many long years ago as one of a dozen mixed nationality pilots flying for a 'foreign country' when we were bored we tried to resurrect a number of aircraft left lying about, 3 pre-war. Our two maddest pilots were a pair of excellent Japanese, 3 were ex Luftwaffe and thought we were mad until we got a Fieseler Storck operational, that became their toy but they were meticulous at pre flight checks. One shell we rebuilt ran along the runway and decided we knew why it was abandoned! But we all survived these activities because we were a small tight team.
A brilliant summation of the important facts of this incident Scott. Your conclusions are also very well stated. Given your recent and completely successful handling of the B25 engine failure this video is entirely credible. Many thanks for your work in producing it.
Just this much will save many. If an engine is producing power that is forward acceleration then consider leaving it running if you at all are in danger of ground Contact. In the simulator it works every time it's designed That way. In real life things happen......
Nice work, a sensitive topic and speculation is often viewed by many as being dis respectful to the dead. I view it the other way. This one is pretty obvious and you are being respectful to the innocent families and children who may buy a ticket to ride in “any” future warbird by calling it like it is. My video on this subjects is in production right now. Helmets on. Buckle in.
Very compreshensive, Scott. Those passengers trusted the crew and were killed. I see that the Collins Foundation has grounded all of their air craft. That sounds like the right decision.
Fantastic synopsis, Scott! I really like the point you made about the fact that this could happen to any one of us.... if we don't maintain a culture of safety. I have attended the funerals of many pilots over the years that I thought had better flying skills than I do. It's a sobering thought. The one thing I miss since retiring from a check airman position at a major airline is the annual safety review. Being able to see and hear detailed analysis of how other pilots handled emergencies, whether good or bad, right or wrong, was the most valuable training I ever received. It emphasized over and over the fact that near catastrophic emergencies, when handled well by a crew, often had a successful outcome, while other minor inflight problems could easily develop into a catastrophic event if mishandled. Your Flywire analysis of this event certainly reminded me of the invaluable safety review training. It is something we can all learn from.
I have 45 wonderful minutes in 9 oh 9 several years ago. Very glad I did it! I also talked to Mac before the flight (as he was maintaining the engines and interacting with the public). In discussion, I explained to him why radial engines are an odd number of cylinders (each bank in the case of even cylinder engines). Mac was very interested, thankful for the answer and most certainly a pleasure to talk with. Great advice was given by the Flight Engineer just before take off (I was seated in the rear area). When walking around after takeoff, he said, never grab the overhead cables to steady yourself. If you grab the cables, you are flying the airplane!
Can’t give you enough respect for your diagnosis of this disaster and the loss of a significant relic from the past,having experienced a ride in a P51 D myself and lived the dream of doing it.
Thank you Scott. My father flew 35 missions out of England as a pilot during WW II. This is a sad tale for sure. My father and I flew in 909 out of Arlington Washington. It was a very precious day and memory.
An excellent object lesson in the concept of breaking the accident chain through a preventative culture of safety and using all available resources to break the chain once you realize you're in one that is unfolding in real time. Listening to your explanation of the chain here, one finds oneself all but shouting out to the crew several times during the narrative as if that could have changed the outcome. Your presentation couldn't change this particular outcome but, if one listens carefully and learns, future accidents will have been prevented. And that is an invaluable contribution to aviation.
I was volunteer ground crew on the Nine O Nine back in the mid-90s. Broke my heart when I heard that A B-17 had crashed, I instantly knew it was the Nine O Nine. :( The tragic loss of all the passengers, and the historic aircraft is an immeasurable loss in damn near every aspect.
Even ony being a model aircraft flyer it was very instructive to watch that video and to learn about the chain of failures and the need of doing the right things at the right time. So sorry for al the people that have died or been injured in the crash and the loss of a beautiful piece of history. Thanks for that very interesting video. Merry Christmas, stay safe and healthy. Greetings from Germany!
This reminds me of the sinking of the HMS Bounty replica. It seems inevitable that old expensive to maintain craft inevitably lead to a mind set of being frugal and living with or delaying repairing faults that most would find unacceptable. Add to that the dependence on volunteers which can lead to a routine of depending on a few experienced people. Those people become used to handling issues themselves as they crop up rather than having a depth of experience to delegate problem solving. when things go unexpectedly bad,the results can become overwhelming
Great video and narration! I flew on Old Glory several years ago from Dayton General Airport , Vandalia Ohio They gave me a headset , but I wanted to hear the radial engines so I left them off . Just after takeoff it started to rain , and it rained inside too . Incredible fun !!
I have helped to run airshows where Colling's B-17, B-24, B-25 and P-51 were the stars. I have flown on "Nine-O-Nine" twice. I have known Mac for nearly 20 years. He was wonderfully disposed to the WWII vets in our organization and to anyone who had questions about the aircraft. In the operations offices at the airport, there is a poster with a picture of a bi-plane firmly lodged in a tree, with the following caption: "Aviation by itself is not inherently dangerous. But to an even greater degree than the sea, it is terribly unforgiving of any carelessness, incapacity or neglect." I have referred to that poster many times. I watched Juan's analysis first, and Scott, I much prefer your analysis. You have put the cookies down where the kids can get them. I mourn for the lives lost. I also mourn for damage to the reputation of the historical aircraft culture and the missed opportunities of those who will never get to experience living and flying history.
This makes me sad all around--the initial reports were that the King of B-17's had done his best to get it back and save at least some. The fuller truth hurts; a shoddily-maintained airplane, a one-man-band with the world on his shoulders shutting down the wrong engine, dropping the gear before the runway was made, and refusing to declare an emergency. Just sad.
@@canlib that's the one good decision this guy made. If he put out the flaps he'd just increase the drag (without the power available to reach the runway). At lower speed (90mph) there's insufficient air over the control surfaces to compensate for the continued turn opposite to the direction of the engine yaw but the second he hit the ground he no longer had that problem so he should have cut the power completely to straighten out. He needed power or energy and he was already too slow for flaps. The real issue was chopping power to early in the flight, a feathered prop, gear down too soon, not declaring an emergency that would have allowed him to turn opposite to the direction of the pattern for a shorter steeper higher energy approach, and committing to the more distant runway etc. Flaps would only have made a difference if he switched runways requiring a steeper approach which would have actually been possible with more drag at that power level. He simply was not competent to fly that plane. He didn't understand the low speed end of the flight envelope or basic emergency procedures. Any way you look at it the accident was easily avoidable and once the emergency started simply acknowledge would have made it completely preventable either by using BASIC CRM or BASIC airmanship. My guess is that by the time he hit the runway lights the engines were already beginning to pull him into an accelerated stall.
It was not clear from other commentaries that the chief mechanic was also the pilot. Thanks for that clarification, now the whole thing makes a lot more sense.
Outstanding comments! You touched upon so many important points. When I was in the Army we used to say that soldiers do as they train, and I've never forgotten that. Another excellent point is that legislation doesn't make people act appropriately, it is the TOP DOWN culture. Problems, of any sort, usually start at the top. I used to train my guys constantly, whether formally or informally. In addition to my love of flying, I also do a lot of sailing (I know, going from 60+ ton tanks to sailboats. Weird, right?!), and there are many similarities to flying. This is true in accidents and what causes them too. Thank you for taking the time to make these videos, and for your excellent insights.
Scott, I’m Jim Null. I was very good friends with your father. I just happened to run across your channel here and I’m very glad I did! It’s very informative. I’ve subscribed, so now I can follow your channel. Take care and God bless. 🇺🇸
@@FlyWirescottperdue Hi, Scott! Good to hear from you. I live a little north of Sarasota, Florida now. I still have my Cessna 182. I can’t believe I’ve owned that plane since 1990! She’s a good bird. Again, it was good to hear from you. God bless. 🇺🇸
I climbed all over witchcraft and Nine-o-nine a few months prior. First time I had the opportunity to go inside a B-17 and I'll cherish those memories.
I had been all through Nine-o-Nine in Nashua just maybe four days before the crash, and for years I had been going to whatever nearest airport was hosting these Collings planes when the tour came around in fall. Never did get to fly in the B-17, but a year or two before the crash my husband and I flew in the B-25 when they were in Keene. Glad we flew; it was one of the high points in our life: but let me tell you, I don't think I'd fly with Collings again, because the process seemed a little cavalier even then. And I will miss seeing that lovely B-17. It was my favorite plane in the tour, year after year! Horrible to think that so many people were killed on something I loved so much.
I could tell this one was a difficult topic for you to cover, probably due to the frustrating level of mistakes, oversights, or just plain lack of good judgment at the critical times it was required!! But you did a great job!!!
Many years back I flew on the B-17 Aluminum Overcast. It was a great flight and I enjoyed it immensely. After watching the reports about this Crash. I recall that when I flew on the Aluminum Overcast, as passengers, we stood as a loosely assembled group on the tarmac after we paid our fair. As the plane landed and rolled in, the passengers were hurried off and we were hurried on being told it was a hot landing to save fuel. We were not given any safety instructions, were not shown how to use the seatbelts or to wear them at any time. There was no explanation of how to exit the craft in an emergency. The only thing I recall being told was to not touch the control cables and we were given ear plugs. We were told the tail gunner area and the ball turret were off limits and to stay out of the nose area during take off and landing. We all hurried to find a seat. I sat at the navigators seat and was able to watch the right side engines during take off and landing. I fiddled with my seatbelt and was able to figure it out. I looked around and only saw one other person with their seatbelt on. We taxied out as soon has the waist hatch was closed. We took off and as soon as the wheels were up our guide came by and said we were free to walk around the plane. We were reminded that the tail gunner and ball turret were off limits and don’t touch the control cables. I was so amazed to be in this B-17 that I thought of safety but surged it off figuring this was a war time like experience. The flight was amazing. This B-17 was in beautiful condition, the plexiglass was scratch free. The aluminum and rivets looked new, there was no chipped paint. I remember thinking that it felt like I could have been in WWII right then and there and it felt just like it does today. Really took the black and white dusty images and the romance away from WWII. It brought the reality that you have no idea what is going to happen next. If you ever get a chance to fly on one of these War Birds, I’m sure you will enjoy it. There is the feeling that you fly at your own risk.
I got a ride on Collings B-24 Witchcraft 4 months before 909’s demise. They did a REALLY long (5 minute) run up before takeoff. It made me really wonder about those engines, but they seemed to perform ok during the flight. I knew I was taking a risk, but the reward was an incredible experience. I just didn’t know then how big of a risk in retrospect it was.
This video just popped up for me this morning. Sorry for being late to the party. I would like to commend you on a very clear concise analogy of what happened in this accident. With everything in life, snap decisions can sometimes lead you on a path of destruction. Regarding my experience with maintenance on a heavy-lift helicopter, I personally have seen this type of attitude in some AME's. In my case, there was always a safety net that we could fall back on to get these disastrous situations stopped. I have to say though, this did not leave you with a very warm and friendly working environment for a while. My experience has shown me that it was way more fun to deal with the aircraft than it was to deal with an inexperienced or unruly AME. Thanks for your work and I look forward to seeing you again. Alex
Thank you for the B-17 review. I did a B-17 flight 2 years ago in Michigan. As a former Flight Engineer in the U.S.A.F., I saw a very professional crew, CRM was being used. Great job thank you 👍.
Just discovered your channel. This was a great analysis and explanation of the accident. Hopefully warbirds can continue to fly and everyone can learn valuable lessons from this. I fear for the future of living history flight programs though.
Great take on the accident. Before the crash I had only heard good thinks about the Collings Foundation in terms of training, maintenance and safety (only second-hand infos, reports,...). But this really shines a different light on it. Its shocking to see how lightly the operation was handled, not just by the Foundation but also the FSDO, especially with a complex airplane like a B-17 and with 10 people onboard. I know afterwards its always easy to say "would, should, could" and I'm not really in a position to judge an experienced flight crew in a highly stressful situation, but like you said, there were so many situations where the accident could have been prevented or at least turned into a non-fatal one (both on the ground and in the air). On a lighter note, your Stearman is beautiful. Would love to see more videos with it =) Merry Christmas and a happy (and hopefully better) new year =)
Thank you, Scott. I had the opportunity to fly with the Collings Foundation tour at Boeing Field in June 2013 at South Tukwila, WA. It had been raining for days, and it looked incongruous in the mornings to watch the automatic sprinklers showering the lawn at Museum of Flight, overwhelmed by the rain (occasional T-storms, too, so close a friend and I saw lightning strike across the street below the end of the hall at our motel). A couple days later, they were overdue at their next tour stop (or two), so we took off behind the B-17, riding in the B-24J to look at the passes. Mac told me later that they had water in the mags so they turned off and listened to observations from the B-24 and TP-51C, which looked beautiful sliding in alongside, one of our "Little Friends." I have a great appreciation for the conditions of the aircrews, as Dad was a bombardier/navigator in the B-26 Invader (3rd BW, Korea), later to KC-97, KC-135 and a SE Asia tour in the C-130 (same calculations for dropping troops and cargo, speeds and drift of wind and airplane). Parts for these old birds (and cars and other equipment) have been getting harder to find and ship, not to mention that 130 octane vanished some time ago. Bob Stevens had some great cartoons about remembering a scarcity of that 130 octane gasoline in training at US bases during WWII, so 100 was substituted: hot fighter pilot students could easily find their airplanes coughing and going 'cold'... I attended several FAA, mostly our local USCG rescue swimmers doing the work, Emergency Egress sessions at our local pool in Alaska, and while underwater, you'll learn that you can relax and have more time underwater, or in a crisis, than you think you do. Giving the neighbor kids rides standing on my back while walking on hands and knees at the bottom of the pool was good practice. I will never forget the saying of the FAA rep, "We're here for your safety." Right, but never forget, "The FAA is not flying the airplane." #1 rule: Fly the airplane. (On the road: Drive the car! I don't listen to the radio much, do Bluetooth, just keep my hands , feet and head on driving or flying or...) I did not know about that clearing water out of the mags with nitrogen (inert gas). I do know that mechanics will tell you to avoid using ether to start a gas or diesel engine, so we always plug in the diesel engine heater when the temperature gets close to freezing. Thank you again.
@@FlyWirescottperdue I believe there’s a picture of my dad in the museum. After his 35 missions, he worked in the control tower. He told me many many stories and events he endured. As typical of guys of his generation, He told them as matter of fact, with little focus on himself. My older brother was a backseater in F-4’s.
I'm not sure if you go on Social Media, or not. Though, I do consider UA-cam Social Media, so I assume you might. On Facebook, there's a page for the 100th BG. They would love to have you join.
I rode in the B-24 and you are right about safety briefing and they were working on the 4th engine the day I flew that almost made me back out because I am a techie and good car mechanic. What u stated about their safety procedures makes me glad we got back john g
I spent 5 years flying T6 giving rides with two different companies. This was starting in 2004. The economics of these flights were deteriorating quickly, all costs were going exponentially up. The most troubling was costs of spare parts, we are talking about the T6. This is a simple trainer and the amount and prices of spares just 10 years prior was better then your C172. With the second guy and two birds we did good job but the pressure was on. Our rides were pre sold as we traveled the country to fulfil them. There were many late nights at the airport to get the bird ready for the next day. We had a big trailer, we had parts, we had good A&P. Not once a tagged overhauled part or component would not work, that was another issue. It was lots of fun doing rolls and loops all day (except for getting puked on), but we were at our own little "war". We shared airports with the B17, B24, there were many more in their team, but it still was a road show. I don't think it is possible to do a road show with such complex aircraft today. We were also blind to many procedural things, single pilot crm, important but thankfully non accident failures were not seen in the correct light. I learned a lot, but only realised it once I got into a crew cockpit, interestingly it was the "bad" captains that allowed me to connect all the dots. Anyways just bit of "from" the road observation.
I watched the whole review, and I was astonished to hear such incompetences by the foundation that flies and mantains those invaluable artifacts. Sad for the people who lost their lives on this one; but more for me; so sadd because it was my favorite airplane.... I loved the forensic study by this expert pilot..thanks for sharing.
..I want to relate an experience indirectly related to this, I have related it on other videos concerning this crash, so I will try to be brief...in 2013, the B-17, B-24, and TP-51C stopped at our local small airport in Blairsville, Ga...I had seen the bombers on tour before several times, but had never seen the TP-51C...It had just landed after giving a ride, and I walked around the aircraft, admiring it, and saw something that alarmed me..I am NOT an aircraft mechanic or pilot, but I saw the wing-to-fuselage fairing, fillet, whatever it is called, on the starboard side, had several missing rivets and a noticeable gap between the fillet and fuselage, clearly caused by the missing rivets...I could clearly see, that if the fillet departed the aircraft in flight, it was in direct line with the starboard horizontal stabilizer and had a good chance of taking it out, potentially causing the aircraft to crash...I promptly voiced my concern to a nearby volunteer, who then referred me to a younger guy(can't recall his name, but it was NOT Mac), who was supposed to be the flight/maintenance director, safety director, or something like that...I walked with him to the aircraft and pointed out the damage/issue, and was shocked and dismayed by his response.."Ah, it'll be alright", or something dismissive to that affect....I couldn't believe there was such a lack of concern for a potential safety issue....
The "safety director" probably worked at "Grease Monkey on weekdays. (Volunteers are hard to find. Knowledgeable WWII crew are now impossible, since all survivors are over 90. )
While I don't have a Mustang maintenance manual & I don't work on 51s, it is possible what you saw was Ok. Even supersonic aircraft have acceptable limits for missing fasteners. Have to ask a Mustang guy to know for sure in this case. Still, it's bad form for such a thing, both for peace of mind of potential paying passengers & for aesthetics of the aircraft, if it is a flyable. BTW, you've NEVER (nor will you EVER) flown on an aircraft that had zero issues. They all have flyable writeups.
Thanks Scott. Great explanation. I live nearby & like to visit the aviation museum next to Bradley airport. This reminds me of the situation described in the book Unbroken which I read a few years back. Their B-24 went into the sea because, just like this, the wrong engine was feathered, creating the same 2 engines out on one side problem, instead of just one.
Great commentary, I thought from reading the initial reports that it was 3rd engine that had failed and the 4th was feathered, but then doubted that as other youtubers said it was number 4 that failed. Thanks for clearing that up. I agree with what you say here. This accident chain built for years. We as pilots need to be adamant about not accepting questionable things as ok because it worked before. Collings just built and opened a beautiful museum in Stow/Hudson Massachusetts. I can't imagine flying an aircraft with mags in the condition those were in, I wonder if the Collings warbird program was victim of a cash crunch due to construction burdens that prevented those mags from being rebuilt. It still was inexcusable to fly that aircraft in that condition.
I was actually working across the street from the airport when this happened. 23 years in Windsor locks and it was one of the craziest things I've seen.
I was the jet on final that ATC was talking about. I heard/witnessed all of this go down. I remember saying out loud in the cockpit “just declare man.” Now looking back I wished I had said it over the radio to them. It might have made a difference... Great video though!
Another outstanding video, A sad circumstance too close to home for me, but thankfully one we can learn from. I loved the discussion about VMC without a lecture (although I've had the benefit of watching the prior videos), and the chain of events. The lack of CRM you mention reminds me of the moment in the "Miracle on the Hudson" where Sully askes Jeff Skiles if he has any ideas. Bravo and well done!
Thank you for applying your considerable wisdom and experience to this tragedy for the benefit of all aviators. Quite the best analysis of this avoidable accident on UA-cam. I once had the nerve to comment on a warbird pilot who was filmed flying with his helmet strap undone. He replied with a tirade of abuse. Just the attitude you describe. Wise men learn by their mistakes. Wiser ones learn by the mistake of others. Subscribed.
Seeing more... And more... Of videos like this, make me not want to set foot on a plane flying under the living history flight exemption, as much as I would LOVE a ride. But as a new pilot, these videos are incredibly eye opening, and really drive the point home
Another wonderful report. I'm a bit embarrassed that i found you so late! If any consolation I will watch all your videos though it may take me quite a while. All the best.
I am not a pilot nor fly very often, but your channel is informative and fantastic. It is sad the results of these souls. Thank you for the detailed explanation.
Flying with “iffy” magnetos or any engine components is ridiculous. There is enough potential for problems with good engines let alone a known engine problem that might pack up at the most inopportune time of takeoff. Feathering the wrong engine a disaster waiting to happen. Now you’ve got a dead wing you should never turn into. Immediately declare emergency if not able to maneuver ship back to runway chose a belly landing if any suitable terrain available. The old bird can’t stay airborne if you can’t get enough power. It’s a testament to the B17 airframe she did as well as she did. Barely above stall with two engines out. Gear down and side slip incredible drag force. The B - 17 wing will begin it’s stall phase at rear wing root an progressively move forward and outwardly to wingtip. The prop wash of live wing will tend to slightly increase the lift regime of that wing. The dead wing now will fall off into a dropping spin. The only remedy is altitude to increase airspeed by nose down to regain lift. If control can be regained you must fly her out very gingerly by turning only into live wing. With out altitude you are rapidly running out of options. You must use remaining air speed to attempt landing on existing terrain. Probably a wheels up to avoid further drag. That’s why you run up engines prior to takeoff. One engine out at this critical regime with out full load and adequate remaining runway you may attempt light angle climb out for go around for emergency return. Inboard engine out will reduce drag felt on that side. Outboard engine will increase felt tendency to yaw into that wing. Shut systems off to dead engine and verify with crew of dead engine. Do not feather live engine. First and foremost fly the aircraft. If able to skid land cut all systems at impact to reduce fire. All crew out of nose and endeavor to remove seat harness buckles and egress aircraft by nearest exit hatch. Good chance of fire with remaining fuel load.
Hey Scott I have watched both Juan Browne's and your comments on this crash. Yours is a fabulous video. Thank you so much. I find your comments on the culture of the fee-charging warbird community like the Collings Foundation to fill in the missing link in the discussion of this accident and those like it. The FAA doesn't appear to understand the culture enough to know how to manage this community safely. Unfortunately, this crash is the primo case in point. So many broken links in the chain leading up to this tragic accident. I am saddened to the point of tears. Mac's management of the flight from "blowing out" the mags to get engines started, the lack of runup before takeoff, feathering the wrong engine (you and Juan disagree), putting the gear down way too early, no training or even seat for the loadmaster/mechanic, etc., the whole thing is a lack of culture buy-in as you so clearly say. Thanks again for so beautifully nailing the key issue. Merry Christmas to you and yours. Dr. Mike Smith
Thanks for doing this, Scott. Juan has also made a couple of excellent videos breaking down the NTSB report on this accident. His perspectives are similar to yours in many respects and differ in a few...which is a graphic illustration of why CRM is so important. Both of you bring expertise and thoughtful analysis to your reports...but also unique perspectives...which gives us a clearer picture of the events which led up to this tragedy. Nobody can ever know exactly what happened in that cockpit or why it happened. Your analysis adds more important pieces to the puzzle. Thanks again.
Scott, I don’t know what algorithm sent me to your video today, but it could not have been more relevant. My friend David died in this crash. David was a Collins PM and I was his customer for many years. He was a huge enthusiast and jumped at the chance to fly in this plane. Your review answered a lot of questions for me. It also makes me very angry at a culture that allows this type of incompetence to occur.
This aircraft was not airworthy. It should never have left the ground, with those ignition system, maintenance, and performance problems. As for the captain, he broke just about every rule he could have. His first officer was not checked out on the B-17, but he was an experienced airline pilot. The captain completely ignored the man in the right seat. There was no CRM. A tragic but avoidable crash.
This video helps point out that the pilot did not avail himself to a multitude of resources... 1. Use crew to help manage the problem. 2. Use engines to greatest extent possible. 3. Retain gear in up position to keep drag low. 4. Declare emergency -- get help from ATC 5. Use perfectly good runway 33. Use just one of the resources available and the full disaster is most likely avoided. There is a photo of him servicing the B-17 from the very top of a step ladder. Obviously, that is not a safe practice, which may indicate a general attitude. Like this video, the intent here is to evaluate and improve piloting -- nothing more. Sympathy goes out to all the families of the lost, especially the pilot's family...
@@FlyWirescottperdue I would add, it is critical that we evaluate every unplanned factor after takeoff, large or small, with consideration for "the chain of events." By factor number two, red lights should be going off. DANGER THE CHAIN HAS STARTED -- get on the ground ASAP.
30-year airline Captain here with a major and just had a failed engine on a 737 during climb-out. Scott your instruction is top notch. I give you the highest praise. Good CRM, SOP, not rushing and verifying everything makes an emergency quite manageable.
We did such a good job that even the FAA sent a letter of congrats. And it's because of exactly what you are saying Scott. Train. Train. Train. Know that the Captain makes mistakes and needs an engaged First Officer that is comfortable pointing out errors.
Thank you for all your work with this sir. I think you save a lot of pilot's lives in your work here.
Chuck
Thank you Chuck... I didn't invent this stuff, trying to highlight best practices. I appreciate your comments.
"Know that the Captain makes mistakes and needs an engaged First Officer that is comfortable pointing out errors." The big lesson of the Tenerife disaster.
I concur. Retired USAF and 767 CA. We need to add Scott's level of professionalism to the warbird community. We can fix this.
@@lcskibird I hope so!
My father was a PBY pilot in WWII. He continued to fly Beechcraft Barons and Cessna 206 amphibian into his Mid 70's. He's gone now, but in the twin Beech he would quiz me and harp on me to "always turn into the good engine" and "make sure you feather the "bad" engine. His aviation career was accident free, but hearing your words reminded me that even 40 years past his naval aviator training, he never forgot the rules. Thank you. Craig
Cool!
I'm a retired Naval Aviator. I find your videos exceptional. Your logic is dead on. I haven't heard you say anything yet that I don't agree 100% with. Thanks for the share.
One of the best explanations of this tragedy I've seen. Having ridden in that plane, my heart goes out to the families and friends of those lost.
I'm 79 and I know what the problem is with people who voluntarily are in it for the fun, the excitement and the nostalgia. They don't really give a damn. They're retired, well off, and don't like catering to the demands of others let alone rules and regs. If you've escaped the Grim Reaper at least once you may have taken a lesson. If your britches have always been lucky safety awareness has never really taken station in your mind. A safety culture is a social regime that has to be taught, practiced and supported continuously. It doesn't come naturally because human weakness dictates avoidance of discomfort. Great presentation, Scott.
That very well could be.
Never shut down an engine that is still producing power unless it is on fire and then not below 400 feet. I ran into a bunch of geese at rotation with a 737 freighter at max gross, the left engine was destroyed but would still run at reduced power. The weather was at minimums and we had to climb over a populated area, it would have been difficult on one but 1 and a quarter worked. We returned to land again at minimums and shut down the engine taxing in. The most important point is keep flying the aircraft. There is an old saying that fits this accident.
He ran out of speed, power and ideas all at the same time. We had the benefit of simulator training, however training and procedures will tend to resolve a bad situation. Also I want to mention what we called crew resource management. Two heads are four times better than one. JMHO 18,000 hours 13 engine failures, no accidents.
Absolutely!
Copy that, roger over and out
@@canlib It's roger, out. Over means you are expecting a reply. Out means end of transmissions. FIFY
Willco
@@snuffle2269 QSY
Having flown the EAA B-17 a little over a year ago and just a short time before this crash, it was an amazing experience and I hope it continues. I must say that the EAA did it right. We waited a couple hours for good weather. We got a full preflight briefing. The pilots were not rushed even with the two hour delay. And a full run-up was done. It was an amazing flight made even better by having onboard with us a 94 year-old man who was shot down in a B-17 and spent the last several months of the war as a POW. I have to admit that the thought crossed my mind that it would be the ultimate irony if this man were to have survived a parachute jump from a B-17 during war only to be killed on a B-17 flight during peacetime. Thankfully, that did not happen and we all had a great time talking with him before and after the flight.
Thanks for sharing!
I’m not an experienced enough aviator to judge anyone but, I’ve been an executive long enough to see when an organization is in trouble. I think the real cause is really two things, and none of them have anything to do with the aircraft:
1. The organization had become to dependent on a single individual. One person was chief pilot, director of maintenance, mechanic, and check airman. He also had so much experience and clout that no one was going to question him.
2. The FAA totally failed. I’m sure the FSDO manager has a list of excuses as long as your arm but, the bottom line is no one was providing any oversight on this organization or its operations.
The employee that you can't do without should be the 1st one to go.
Nick, I think you've got it. This is a channel for aviators so, as pilots, they naturally focus on how to deal with the hand they are dealt. Nothing wrong with that. But, as you say, the original sin in this tragedy is far removed from failing magnetos, or failing engines. The crash investigators published 1200 pages of technical details. This shouldn't be a distraction. The Foundation set about to honor the courage of the men and their machines. In the event, they allowed processes which ultimately destroy the machines they seek to preserve, as well as the very benefactors needed to sustain their highly admirable intentions. Que lastima!
He could not be that experienced. He couldn’t handle a simple problem. No checklists, emergency procedures etc. 75 years old flying a 4 engine bomber 75 years old. Heck in few years he could possibly not drive a car. What a shit show.
@@jimshewokis6778 Mac was the most experienced B17 pilot in the world at the time of the crash. But I think you understand the problem quite well.
I've flown in 3 different B-17's as part of these living history rides. They are some of my favorite memories in my life. But as a recently retired Industrial Maintenance Technician with over 25 years of experience this scares the heck out of me. All through my professional career I've had to deal with what I like to call the " Cowboy Mentality". It's just Hurry up and get it done. Safety , protocols and rules out the window. Anything, at all cost to avoid the extra paperwork , trouble reports and meetings to report to management. If I made a big deal out of not following our own rules then I was the problem.
R.I.P Nine-oh-Nine her crew and passengers who passed. Sorry for your loss.
Good comment. Sometimes too many shortcuts are taken in the interest of expediency. Yet, weigh that with what has happened recently with the rollout of vaccines. They precluded much bureaucratic flotsam and jetsom to get them going. It's awkward and fast, but will save lives if done correctly.
It’s easy to second guess or be a critic, but in the interest of symmetry, I would have engines that have very close SMOH numbers. And “ Don’t bother cinching up the seatbelts?” What the hell?
When management blames you for what you have to repair.
I had one engineer that actually said “where there is a technician there is a breakdown, we need to get rid of the technicians”
@@brucebaxter6923 Yup. Sounds about right. Funny too.
@@nancychace8619 Bullshit! No safety protocols have been bypassed for the vaccines against Covid-19. Stop spreading that crap, it's getting thousands of people killed by unfounded fear of vaccines. Bloody stupid to bring such off topic things into a discussion about aviation.
Scott, just finished your well explained video and as a former command pilot with 11years and 400 hrs in a B17G I found this sad story to be spot on. In an aircraft of this size low and slow is a recipe for failure and a very bad outcome ! As your aware during your yearly PPE ck ride each command pilot must show proficiency in engine out scenarios which include instrument approaches with two engines at zero thrust on the same side . A missed approach at DH is doable but you need airspeed , some altitude and a clean aircraft plus CRM...crew resource management ! In this particular case those golden three letters ( CRM ) could have saved lives and a very precious aircraft ! The Museum I was involved with was indeed part of the that History of Flight program and without exception the FAA inspectors that jump seated during those ck rides were not in tune with the program nor had any knowledge of that aircraft . Is was not uncommon to have them sit in the back and not ever question the ck pilot giving the PPE but they sure took time to look over the paperwork for anything they could bitch about.
Again you were spot on pointing out the mistakes made and any one of which could have saved the day and lives. How many have perished by shutting down an engine that is still producing power ?
My advise was if is still turning and not burning fly it to the scene of the crash as it might give you that little extra so you can walk away if your in that critical phase of flight.
The ride program as we called it 20 plus years ago served two purposes, give the people a real chance to first hand experience history and also generate revenue for the Museum. Now that aircraft ( Fuddy Duddy ) is part of another Museum and most likely will never fly again and I’m afraid this tragic loss of 909 will have a negative effect on the future of any WW2 aircraft ride program .
Thanks for the great videos
Thanks for sharing Ken!
I'm a long retired USAF research pilot and flight examiner with a background in fighters from the F-86 thru the F-111 and 4 engine birds - almost all versions of the C/KC/EC-135. Scott's presentation is spot-on. The pilot kept power up on 1 & 2 even as speed decreased until he completely ran out of rudder authority. Had he chopped power, he would have landed short but it would likely have been survivable.
As an interesting B-17 sidelight, remember the early pre-war B-17's (the one with the stripes on the tail). They lacked a dorsal fin and as a result were a bear to fly with an outboard engine failure. Sudden yaw could produce a full fin stall at 17 degrees beta (sideslip angle). A dorsal fin was added to the later models which went nearly to the radio compartment. This low aspect dorsal extended full fin stall to nearly 29 degrees and undoubtedly saved many WWII crews experiencing engine failure, considering their many low time pilots.
Great comment Arthur! Thanks.
Credentials: 24 year flying career in tactical jets, USMC, USN, ANG. 20 year career with Part 121 carrier, 737, 747, 757, 767, and DC-10, type rated in all but 747.
I had recently viewed other podcast videos on this accident before I watched yours. They pretty much matched your analysis, point by point, all good information for preventing another tragedy like this one. The one surprising difference in your report, Scott, was your clear and unambiguous assertion that the PIC feathered the wrong engine, probably because of his personal bias created by his past personal experience with the balky performance history of engine number four. I would speculate that this mistake was most likely exaacerated by the fact that his extensive general aviation career did not include the simulator and CRM training he would otherwise have received had he been a Part 121, Part 135, or US military transport/tanker/ bomber pilot.
He, the Foundation, and the Feds made a lot of mistakes here which all contributed to this very preventable tragedy. "The system" failed him and the others on board who perished unnecessarily: 1. The FAA FSDO that egregiously failed to provide appropriate oversight of the Foundation's maintenance and flightcrew training; 2. The Foundation's failure to exercise its own responsibility for training and monitoring its flight operations and maintenance functions.
With the recent tragic midair collision at Dallas, and this very unfortunate crash at Bradley, we have lost multiple lives, two precious irreplaceable B-17s, and a P-63 King Cobra. I get it that these warbird operations are profoundly important from the historic preservation and public interest standpoints, but also that keeping them flying is an incredibly expensive proposition. Because of the associated financial considerations, there are all kinds of incentives to cut corners, fudge procedures, and pencil whip flight training, safety management, and aircraft maintenance integrity. If we want to preserve this very valuable warbird institution, all of us in aviation need to look in the mirror and clean up our own acts, or our overweening government is going to shut us all down, not just the warbirds and living history flights for hire. I suggest starting with AQP for all general aviation pilots, while buying in to a universal safety culture that will reduce the accident rate and save many lives. We know how to do it if we really want to. Scott, your perspective and voice are an essential component of the solution, so keep it up, Brother!
I read the transcript of the loadmaster's testimony -- it's heartbreaking how little he knew about operations and maintenance. He was receiving "OJT" from his boss and he obviously didn't realize how lax the protocols were. God bless those lost and their families, but also bless this poor man, who has to live with the consequences.
read the testimony in the latest NTSB report from both sides of this coin. makes the premise of trusting big brother to run things efficiently out with the bathwater. all of the alphabet institutions (faa, fbi, etc) need to be cleaned out and the top couple floors of each hq removed, charged, and fired.
data.ntsb.gov/Docket?ProjectID=100356
I also flew on the Collins Foundation B-17 out of the York (Thomasville) PA airport almost 20 years ago. My uncle had served in the 8th Air Force as a "toggle-lier" on a B-17. It gave me an appreciation of what a crew experienced . It is tragic that lives were lost in this accident. It will be tragic to not have the opportunity to fly again in vintage planes if this accident makes the liability too costly. We may only be able to see them fly by or on static display. As an aviation enthusiast (not a pilot), I respect your take and insight into the root causes of the accident. This again shows the series of bad decisions, not just one, that has fatal consequences. My deepest sympathy to all of the families.
I hope we don't lose the LFHE program because of this accident, for reasons just as you have expressed.
I watched Juan's latest video on this crash. As always, it was very informative, but you just eclipsed him greatly. Filled in a lot of holes. Good job Scott.
High praise indeed! Thanks!
I recall that Juan said Mac had shut down the correct engine. Scott said otherwise. I wonder who is correct?
@@LTVoyager I have massive respect for Juan and not qualified to argue his assessment, but I believe Scott has this correct.
@@LTVoyager Read the report... I didn't make it up Vintage Radials took the engines apart and they said #3 had undergone severe detonation and was not producing significant power. The engineer who examined the performance also verified that. Read the Docket yourself.
@@FlyWirescottperdue I did not say either you or Juan made up anything. I said I wondered who was right. I have read the docket and it is not clear to me which engine was producing the least power. #3 showed signs of detonation, which can cause loss of power, but generally not a huge loss until permanent damage occurs. Even it if lost 20% of its output, that leaves 80% which is still quite useful. #4 had a completely dead left mag due to the internal short to the case. And the right mag was not firing cylinder #8 at all and was “weak and intermittent” on the remaining 8 cylinders. If we figure the dead mag cost say 10% power loss that leaves 90% left. Losing cylinder 8 means we lose 1/9 of that power at least (generally losing cylinders does not result in a linear power loss, but more than linear) which means we are now down to 80% power. Factor in that the sparks on the right mag were weak and intermittent to cylinders 1-7 and 9 and we likely lose another 10-50% power which means engine #4 might have been producing 50% power or less. That is likely much less than what was being produced by #3 even if detonating. So, if Mac shut down #4, I tend to agree that this likely was the right choice as it was likely the engine producing the least power. However, I don’t see any way to know with certainty which engine was actually the laggard and thus whether he made a good or bad choice in shutting down #4 vs #3. As an engineer, I tend to not speculate and base my opinions on the data. From what I have read thus far, I don’t think there is sufficient data to say which of #3 or #4 was in worse condition on that flight.
Safety first means surviving. I can’t tell you how many pilots tried to save their plans, their reputation or their airplane, and lost their life.
Pride comes before a fall.
I’ve been around Aviation my whole life; even serve in the Air Force. But I don’t claim to be a SME, or anything of the sort.
In May 2019 I was volunteering with the Airdales providing ground ops for the D-Day Squadron. They were forming up and practicing at Oxford airport in Waterbury Connecticut. During one of the morning briefings before a formation flight, lead pilot to the CAF’s C-47 “That’s All Brother” Doug Rozendaal said something that stuck with me; it is especially true in this situation or for any historic flying. “Our fathers had to fly, we chose to”...let that sink in. Just because a crew chief in ww2 would keep these planes flying with beer cans, rubber bands and bubble gum. Does not mean that’s safe, or how it needs to be done today. Proper maintenance is essential to safety, as is crew coordination and communication, and training. All of which is mute now for 909, but hopefully wakes up any other warbird organization or any aviator as to what can happen if they cut corners.
Well said. Jakeleg repairs are for emergencies. Thanks for your work keeping history alive.
That's right, and that's also part of the reason that of all the losses that the 8th Air Force had in WW2 a full one third of them were due to accidents.
I've been working on motorcycles for a living for over 30 years and I'm constantly stressing to people that maintenance on them should be done with the same standards that aircraft are maintained with because there's almost as much at stake and the same forgiveness of errors.
"Moot" not "mute"
Thanks for the great report, Scott. My take on this since the preliminary report came out was that there were multiple serious failures in maintenance procedures, so serious that Collings should never again be allowed to fly passengers in their planes. Now you've added the very poor decisions by the pilot, who was very experienced in the B-17. All in all, just an accident waiting to happen. Also, I boarded that plane for a flight about a year before that. They had trouble starting one engine (likely for the reason you explained) and they had all of us leave the plane until they fixed the problem. I decided to not get back on.
Probably a good idea. Thanks for sharing!
Yes, probably good choice. According to his copilot, my dad flew his shot-up B-24 to a safe landing in England in 1944. Two engines shot out by 100 ME109s on one side. April 8, 1944. The day that nearly prevented my existence. I believe I saw this plane in Watsonville and Half Moon Bay years ago. Never had the desire, certainly not the nerve, to fly with Collins. Another good choice.
Imagine flying several hours standing on right rudder while the crew chucks everything out the window. Only one died, as he held his heater wire, not the rip cord. He was tail gunner and was in shock from a 20mm to the tail. I think he should have been kept aboard. But that is Monday-morning quarterbacking.
I think there was panic in those last seconds. Adding power to the left engines was a knee-jerk reaction to hitting the runway lights to get a bit of altitude. It just induced a right yaw which there was no recovery from.
@@eclipser2004 You may well be right, but panic has no place in a pilot's repertoire. We, and especially a very experienced pilot like that one, should be able to handle whatever happens without panic. Possibly unsuccessfully, but still without panic.
Define experienced. If this pilot had survived he could have been brought up on murder charges.
Possibly the best narration (and explanation) of the events of Nine O Nine's crash yet. I was reasonably sure that the main failures were that they turned into the dead engine(s) and that the aircraft was too low and too slow to achieve a safe landing. Of course, throw in a pilot error, (feathering the wrong engine) and there they were, outside the flight envelope, and unable to make a controlled landing.
I’m a non-pilot that enjoys listening to aviators discuss the profession. I want to compliment your presentation, media, and information; all because they added to my knowledge. Well done especially for we lay followers.
In 2013, my wife and I flew on a B17, the Texas Raider. She was built in 1945 and the experience is still fresh in my mind. The plane has a timeless design both elegant and intimidating at the same time, the engineering, just over four decades removed from the first powered flight, is still awe inspiring. Most importantly, it connects us to the greatest generation and the courage and sacrifice of those airman. Walking on the catwalk, over the bomb bay doors, cracked enough to see the ground below, is a memory I will never forget. The flight crew was amazing, their knowledge impressive and the history so important to maintain for posterity. Despite this tragedy, we need to preserve these remaining historical, functioning museums at all costs.
Scott, you do an amazing job with your channel. Truly exceptional work.
Thanks Jerry, high praise indeed!
Thank you Scott. As a former Navy nuke officer, safe operating culture was something drilled into us and enforced by Rickover on down with ne'er an exception. You can easily see the 909 failure trail from your analysis, and that culture allowed this trail. Real accidents are actually rather rare; we create them by shortcuts. This crash was only a matter of time, given the lack of respect for safety and procedures.
Again, nice work in your analysis. It centers on the key cause(s) of the incident.
Thanks James!
Nine-O-Nine was like a seasonal marker where I live, floating by and casting its radial rumble through the sky for a few days each year. Did the tour a couple of times, talked with a couple of B-17 veterans and got their stories. Some good historical artifacts on display including flight briefing notes with sketches in a small loose leaf notebook. Took a friend of mine who was able to get some video of a landing for his stepfather, who was shot down over Vienna in a B-24. Hearing of the loss of Nine-O-Nine made a very sad day.
My last great memories with my Dad before he passed was a flight on 909. He started to decline within a year or so after our flight. I am so thankful that we were able to share that experience.
Watched a number of videos on the 909 crash and this fills in a number of gaps and points out the gross errors. As a young boy I drew pics of a B-17 in flight and came to love them. Lived in Schweifurt and was 3rd Inf Div Engr on the former Luftwaffe base for 20 months and got the German view of the raid. Touched the Memphis Belle when she was partially covered on the Island under the "tent" in Memphis. Passed "Prestons Pride: in Tulare, CA for years on Highway 99 and so glad to hear she was restored. Sad to hear about this loss of a great airplane and now the FULL story of what really happened. Thanks. These WWII aircraft must be preserved.
I simply scratch my head and wonder in disbelief at how maintenance protocols are ignored on a vintage airplane. Some of the info coming out about this crash is unbelievable.
Easy. Old guy, tons of hours and experience. A little complacency sets in, minor trouble arises, he handles it. Gets away with it. No oversight. Rinse and repeat. Works great.....until it doesn’t.
@@phil4826 Yeah, you're probably right but doing it with a newer airframe is dangerous, doing it with an 80 yr old warbird seems suicidal to me.
Whenever we talk about a pilot who has been killed in a flying accident, we should all keep one thing in mind. He called upon the sum of all his knowledge and made a judgment. He believed in it so strongly that he knowingly bet his life on it. That his judgment was faulty is a tragedy, not stupidity. Every instructor, supervisor, and contemporary who ever spoke to him had an opportunity to influence his judgment, so a little bit of all of us goes with every pilot we lose.
- author unknown
Well said David.
If it wasn't stupidity then it was murder
I flew on EAA's Aluminum Overcast just a few days prior to the 909 crash, it was an incredible once in a lifetime experience, truly an amazing flight. The crew was very professional, full briefing, got to sit up front for the take off. I'm a private pilot, flew my own Champ to where the ride was, just an amazing day to fly, and to fly on such an amazing aircraft. Really made me think about what it was like for the guys flying these planes during ww2. Crazy. The 909 crash but a damper on the memory of my flight, I had hoped the cause was not anyone's fault but all along I wondered why he didn't declare an emergency and land ASAP. Thanks for the great report.
I flew on B17 9o9 on its last trip to Ft. Lauderdale in 2018. I bought two tickets for my girlfriend and i and it was the best $900. i ever spent. Made this 50 year old feel like a little kid doing the funnest thing everrr. One this day, everything ran perfect, and the plane flew great with no engine problems. My experience was no different than what a WWII crew member would have experienced. I was not on a commercial airliner, nor did i want it to be like that. I want to feel a B17 in its true glory and i did. I took plenty of video footage of the flight from engine start, takeoff and landing. One day i will make a movie of it and upload it to youtube. I really look forward to riding on B24 Witchcraft as soon as it's able to get back in the air. Prayers to the Collings Foundation and crew, RIP to the victims.
Please, for those of us who didn't dare to do it. My dad was a B-24 pilot.
I happened to be driving by and saw the B-17 flying South just in the tree line that day. It wasn't in the trees but that there were trees between me the plane. To step back a bit, at 9:30am that mornnig I received a phone call that my mother had just passed away and I told my sister that I would be going home to get changed and then heading to my mothers house. My intent that day was to stop and photograph the war birds after work and had all my photo equipment in the back of my car. I was traveling West on Rte 20 when I saw the B-17 and thought it must have just taken off being so low. When I got to the end of the runway it had just crashed into the building by the end of the runway and there was a huge fireball rising up into the sky. The ironic part of this whole incident was that my mother is English and was born and raised in London where she met my father who was a crew chief on a B-17 bomber. during WW2. I recently found out that my father was one of only 7 crew chiefs awarded the Bronze Star for maintaining a bomber with no missed mission due to mechanical issues.
Amazing story!
Scott, I have not watched Juan's video's or anybody else's take on this accident except for yours. I know you have time in a B25 and I figured you might have the best understanding of the situation. I am puzzled by the amount of shortfalls that led up to this huge failure!! I appreciate you taking your valuable time to sift through endless stacks of paperwork to help us understand the truth. I never want living history flights to end, but I want them to be safe for people to enjoy! Seems like there is a lot of flak to fly through to make these flights safe again on so many levels!! Great job on this video.
Thank you. It would be a huge loss to all of us if we lost the LFHE program. It is a way to touch history!
Your empathy with the crew AND the passengers strikes a deep chord with me. This concise, non judgmental explanation was spot on. And as an aside, I am an engineer, a railroad train driver, and a tinkerer with all and master of none kind of guy.Oddly enough, once I learned the engine(s) were not coming apart, causing damage to the airframe,
and as close as they were to the airport, why kill either of them? Seems like every erg would have come in very handy to keep the craft flying. Even if the "bad" engines were just making a HP or two, killing an engine was just a wrong decision. I am inwardly pleased that your knowledgeable comments confirmed my advanced piddler's theory. Killing engines, not going for the nearest runway, early wheels down, not chopping the power... From this armchair it seems any one might have made the difference. But I wasn't there, and I regret the loss of even one life. So very sad.
Thanks again for the illumination!
Scott, this is excellent! From watching Juan’s video, I couldn’t figure out why losing one engine would be such a huge power loss. Going back to culture, I think it is great that Mac knew the most about these machines in the Collings organization, but that is also a weakness because there is no one to verify or question his judgement. Sadly, very sadly, we now know his judgement was flawed and he made hasty assumptions. I’m looking forward to Juan’s Part 2 video as well. I’m a mechanic by trade and was appalled at the state of those magnetos. My beat up old ‘71 Volkswagen has better ignition parts on it and I’m on the ground with no passengers.
I work near the airport and fly out of BDL often. I had a look at the crash site several times from a distance and heard second hand stories from witnesses and a relative of one of the victims. The situation never added up until I watched this video. Thank you for your research and professional insight. Prayers for those hurt and lost in this senseless tragedy.
Thank you Christopher, prayers indeed!
Same here Christopher.
I have help to run airshows over the past 20 years where Colling's planes were the attraction. I also have known Mac (and others from Collings) for those 20 years. I was also trying to add up what I could find out and none of it was making sense other than "there were engine problems..." and "they hit lights...and deicing tanks.."
Scott has done an excellent for us who love these planes and young, now old men who flew them.
Scott you nailed it right from the beginning a complete lac of a safety culture at all levels of responsibility.
Scott, watched this a second time today after being so impressed the first time I watched it in December. Your analysis is SO IMPRESSIVE, and you bring up so many valuable pointers and insight. THANK YOU for your devotion to accurate reporting and digging into the details.
Crawled through this fine plane in 2016 or so. Very eerie feeling when it crashed. RIP to those who lost their lives. Thanks for the video.
This was a very good description of the problems that all safety programs experience - the pressure to show a profit. I've been an electrical engineer for 50 years and as part of the work I was responsible for designing a safe system. I was always question on my designs because I followed the National Electrical Code. Virtually no one knows the Code and no one enforces it. Well, no one until an accident occurs. I fear that until women rule to world men will always think with their balls and someone will go through the meat grinder because of it. None the less, it is important work you're doing to bring these points home. Thanks for that.
This lecture is outstanding. It topics most, of not al contributions.
Never, never fly with an aircraft which is not properly maintained. The margins are then already eroded away when you need them.
I'm fascinated by this as many long years ago as one of a dozen mixed nationality pilots flying for a 'foreign country' when we were bored we tried to resurrect a number of aircraft left lying about, 3 pre-war. Our two maddest pilots were a pair of excellent Japanese, 3 were ex Luftwaffe and thought we were mad until we got a Fieseler Storck operational, that became their toy but they were meticulous at pre flight checks. One shell we rebuilt ran along the runway and decided we knew why it was abandoned! But we all survived these activities because we were a small tight team.
A brilliant summation of the important facts of this incident Scott. Your conclusions are also very well stated. Given your recent and completely successful handling of the B25 engine failure this video is entirely credible. Many thanks for your work in producing it.
Just this much will save many. If an engine is producing power that is forward acceleration then consider leaving it running if you at all are in danger of ground Contact. In the simulator it works every time it's designed That way. In real life things happen......
Nice work, a sensitive topic and speculation is often viewed by many as being dis respectful to the dead. I view it the other way. This one is pretty obvious and you are being respectful to the innocent families and children who may buy a ticket to ride in “any” future warbird by calling it like it is. My video on this subjects is in production right now. Helmets on. Buckle in.
Thanks Dan!
Looking forward to your take Dan.
Absolutely. Looking forward to viewing it.
My father was a navigator/top turret gunner on a B 17 with the 8th airforce in England in 1943. He loved his crew and he had confidence in the plane
Very compreshensive, Scott. Those passengers trusted the crew and were killed. I see that the Collins Foundation has grounded all of their air craft. That sounds like the right decision.
Fantastic synopsis, Scott! I really like the point you made about the fact that this could happen to any one of us.... if we don't maintain a culture of safety. I have attended the funerals of many pilots over the years that I thought had better flying skills than I do. It's a sobering thought. The one thing I miss since retiring from a check airman position at a major airline is the annual safety review. Being able to see and hear detailed analysis of how other pilots handled emergencies, whether good or bad, right or wrong, was the most valuable training I ever received. It emphasized over and over the fact that near catastrophic emergencies, when handled well by a crew, often had a successful outcome, while other minor inflight problems could easily develop into a catastrophic event if mishandled. Your Flywire analysis of this event certainly reminded me of the invaluable safety review training. It is something we can all learn from.
Thanks Tom, excellent point!
I have 45 wonderful minutes in 9 oh 9 several years ago. Very glad I did it! I also talked to Mac before the flight (as he was maintaining the engines and interacting with the public). In discussion, I explained to him why radial engines are an odd number of cylinders (each bank in the case of even cylinder engines). Mac was very interested, thankful for the answer and most certainly a pleasure to talk with. Great advice was given by the Flight Engineer just before take off (I was seated in the rear area). When walking around after takeoff, he said, never grab the overhead cables to steady yourself. If you grab the cables, you are flying the airplane!
Can’t give you enough respect for your diagnosis of this disaster and the loss of a significant relic from the past,having experienced a ride in a P51 D myself and lived the dream of doing it.
Thank you Scott. My father flew 35 missions out of England as a pilot during WW II. This is a sad tale for sure. My father and I flew in 909 out of Arlington Washington. It was a very precious day and memory.
....and he flew B 17's to Germany
I think crewing B-17's and B-24's to Germany was the toughest job! You just had to sit there and take it for hours at a time! that takes courage!
Well done, again, Scott.
An excellent object lesson in the concept of breaking the accident chain through a preventative culture of safety and using all available resources to break the chain once you realize you're in one that is unfolding in real time. Listening to your explanation of the chain here, one finds oneself all but shouting out to the crew several times during the narrative as if that could have changed the outcome. Your presentation couldn't change this particular outcome but, if one listens carefully and learns, future accidents will have been prevented. And that is an invaluable contribution to aviation.
Thanks EJ.... you hit the nail on the head!
I was volunteer ground crew on the Nine O Nine back in the mid-90s. Broke my heart when I heard that A B-17 had crashed, I instantly knew it was the Nine O Nine. :( The tragic loss of all the passengers, and the historic aircraft is an immeasurable loss in damn near every aspect.
Even ony being a model aircraft flyer it was very instructive to watch that video and to learn about the chain of failures and the need of doing the right things at the right time. So sorry for al the people that have died or been injured in the crash and the loss of a beautiful piece of history. Thanks for that very interesting video. Merry Christmas, stay safe and healthy. Greetings from Germany!
This reminds me of the sinking of the HMS Bounty replica.
It seems inevitable that old expensive to maintain craft inevitably lead to a mind set of being frugal and living with or delaying repairing faults that most would find unacceptable.
Add to that the dependence on volunteers which can lead to a routine of depending on a few experienced people.
Those people become used to handling issues themselves as they crop up rather than having a depth of experience to delegate problem solving. when things go unexpectedly bad,the results can become overwhelming
true!
Great video and narration! I flew on Old Glory several years ago from Dayton General Airport , Vandalia Ohio
They gave me a headset , but I wanted to hear the radial engines so I left them off . Just after takeoff it started to rain , and it rained inside too . Incredible fun !!
I have helped to run airshows where Colling's B-17, B-24, B-25 and P-51 were the stars. I have flown on "Nine-O-Nine" twice.
I have known Mac for nearly 20 years. He was wonderfully disposed to the WWII vets in our organization and to anyone who had questions about the aircraft.
In the operations offices at the airport, there is a poster with a picture of a bi-plane firmly lodged in a tree, with the following caption: "Aviation by itself is not inherently dangerous. But to an even greater degree than the sea, it is terribly unforgiving of any carelessness, incapacity or neglect."
I have referred to that poster many times.
I watched Juan's analysis first, and Scott, I much prefer your analysis.
You have put the cookies down where the kids can get them.
I mourn for the lives lost.
I also mourn for damage to the reputation of the historical aircraft culture and the missed opportunities of those who will never get to experience living and flying history.
Thank you Glenn, I appreciate that. And know that I mourn as well!
This makes me sad all around--the initial reports were that the King of B-17's had done his best to get it back and save at least some. The fuller truth hurts; a shoddily-maintained airplane, a one-man-band with the world on his shoulders shutting down the wrong engine, dropping the gear before the runway was made, and refusing to declare an emergency. Just sad.
And flaps not extended for landing
Maybe the co-pilot dropped the gear on his own and the pilot didn't realize it. It is criminal though to fly such a shoddily maintained plane.
@@canlib that's the one good decision this guy made. If he put out the flaps he'd just increase the drag (without the power available to reach the runway). At lower speed (90mph) there's insufficient air over the control surfaces to compensate for the continued turn opposite to the direction of the engine yaw but the second he hit the ground he no longer had that problem so he should have cut the power completely to straighten out. He needed power or energy and he was already too slow for flaps. The real issue was chopping power to early in the flight, a feathered prop, gear down too soon, not declaring an emergency that would have allowed him to turn opposite to the direction of the pattern for a shorter steeper higher energy approach, and committing to the more distant runway etc. Flaps would only have made a difference if he switched runways requiring a steeper approach which would have actually been possible with more drag at that power level. He simply was not competent to fly that plane. He didn't understand the low speed end of the flight envelope or basic emergency procedures. Any way you look at it the accident was easily avoidable and once the emergency started simply acknowledge would have made it completely preventable either by using BASIC CRM or BASIC airmanship. My guess is that by the time he hit the runway lights the engines were already beginning to pull him into an accelerated stall.
It was not clear from other commentaries that the chief mechanic was also the pilot. Thanks for that clarification, now the whole thing makes a lot more sense.
Outstanding comments! You touched upon so many important points. When I was in the Army we used to say that soldiers do as they train, and I've never forgotten that. Another excellent point is that legislation doesn't make people act appropriately, it is the TOP DOWN culture. Problems, of any sort, usually start at the top. I used to train my guys constantly, whether formally or informally.
In addition to my love of flying, I also do a lot of sailing (I know, going from 60+ ton tanks to sailboats. Weird, right?!), and there are many similarities to flying. This is true in accidents and what causes them too.
Thank you for taking the time to make these videos, and for your excellent insights.
Yours are some of the best aviation videos I have seen. Safety is survival. Training is safety.
BEAUTIFUL video. I'm a 20 year Air Force guy, GA pilot with 400 hours, and maybe 30 inverted in an 8KCAB. THANK YOU !
Scott, I’m Jim Null. I was very good friends with your father. I just happened to run across your channel here and I’m very glad I did! It’s very informative. I’ve subscribed, so now I can follow your channel. Take care and God bless. 🇺🇸
Hi Jim, it’s good to hear from you! Still in SA? Thanks for watching!
@@FlyWirescottperdue
Hi, Scott! Good to hear from you. I live a little north of Sarasota, Florida now. I still have my Cessna 182. I can’t believe I’ve owned that plane since 1990! She’s a good bird. Again, it was good to hear from you. God bless. 🇺🇸
I climbed all over witchcraft and Nine-o-nine a few months prior. First time I had the opportunity to go inside a B-17 and I'll cherish those memories.
I had been all through Nine-o-Nine in Nashua just maybe four days before the crash, and for years I had been going to whatever nearest airport was hosting these Collings planes when the tour came around in fall. Never did get to fly in the B-17, but a year or two before the crash my husband and I flew in the B-25 when they were in Keene. Glad we flew; it was one of the high points in our life: but let me tell you, I don't think I'd fly with Collings again, because the process seemed a little cavalier even then. And I will miss seeing that lovely B-17. It was my favorite plane in the tour, year after year! Horrible to think that so many people were killed on something I loved so much.
I could tell this one was a difficult topic for you to cover, probably due to the frustrating level of mistakes, oversights, or just plain lack of good judgment at the critical times it was required!!
But you did a great job!!!
Don thanks for sharing!
Many years back I flew on the B-17 Aluminum Overcast. It was a great flight and I enjoyed it immensely. After watching the reports about this Crash. I recall that when I flew on the Aluminum Overcast, as passengers, we stood as a loosely assembled group on the tarmac after we paid our fair. As the plane landed and rolled in, the passengers were hurried off and we were hurried on being told it was a hot landing to save fuel. We were not given any safety instructions, were not shown how to use the seatbelts or to wear them at any time. There was no explanation of how to exit the craft in an emergency. The only thing I recall being told was to not touch the control cables and we were given ear plugs. We were told the tail gunner area and the ball turret were off limits and to stay out of the nose area during take off and landing. We all hurried to find a seat. I sat at the navigators seat and was able to watch the right side engines during take off and landing. I fiddled with my seatbelt and was able to figure it out. I looked around and only saw one other person with their seatbelt on. We taxied out as soon has the waist hatch was closed. We took off and as soon as the wheels were up our guide came by and said we were free to walk around the plane. We were reminded that the tail gunner and ball turret were off limits and don’t touch the control cables. I was so amazed to be in this B-17 that I thought of safety but surged it off figuring this was a war time like experience.
The flight was amazing. This B-17 was in beautiful condition, the plexiglass was scratch free. The aluminum and rivets looked new, there was no chipped paint. I remember thinking that it felt like I could have been in WWII right then and there and it felt just like it does today. Really took the black and white dusty images and the romance away from WWII. It brought the reality that you have no idea what is going to happen next.
If you ever get a chance to fly on one of these War Birds, I’m sure you will enjoy it. There is the feeling that you fly at your own risk.
I got a ride on Collings B-24 Witchcraft 4 months before 909’s demise. They did a REALLY long (5 minute) run up before takeoff. It made me really wonder about those engines, but they seemed to perform ok during the flight. I knew I was taking a risk, but the reward was an incredible experience. I just didn’t know then how big of a risk in retrospect it was.
Great analysis. There is a lot for us to take away from this.
This video just popped up for me this morning. Sorry for being late to the party. I would like to commend you on a very clear concise analogy of what happened in this accident. With everything in life, snap decisions can sometimes lead you on a path of destruction. Regarding my experience with maintenance on a heavy-lift helicopter, I personally have seen this type of attitude in some AME's. In my case, there was always a safety net that we could fall back on to get these disastrous situations stopped. I have to say though, this did not leave you with a very warm and friendly working environment for a while. My experience has shown me that it was way more fun to deal with the aircraft than it was to deal with an inexperienced or unruly AME. Thanks for your work and I look forward to seeing you again. Alex
Thanks Alex, I appreciate that!
Thank you for the B-17 review. I did a B-17 flight 2 years ago in Michigan. As a former Flight Engineer in the U.S.A.F., I saw a very professional crew, CRM was being used. Great job thank you 👍.
Just discovered your channel. This was a great analysis and explanation of the accident. Hopefully warbirds can continue to fly and everyone can learn valuable lessons from this. I fear for the future of living history flight programs though.
Great take on the accident. Before the crash I had only heard good thinks about the Collings Foundation in terms of training, maintenance and safety (only second-hand infos, reports,...). But this really shines a different light on it. Its shocking to see how lightly the operation was handled, not just by the Foundation but also the FSDO, especially with a complex airplane like a B-17 and with 10 people onboard. I know afterwards its always easy to say "would, should, could" and I'm not really in a position to judge an experienced flight crew in a highly stressful situation, but like you said, there were so many situations where the accident could have been prevented or at least turned into a non-fatal one (both on the ground and in the air).
On a lighter note, your Stearman is beautiful. Would love to see more videos with it =) Merry Christmas and a happy (and hopefully better) new year =)
Thanks Fabian, more Stearman videos coming when its warmer!
@@FlyWirescottperdue Thats great! Looking forward to it =)
Thank you, Scott. I had the opportunity to fly with the Collings Foundation tour at Boeing Field in June 2013 at South Tukwila, WA. It had been raining for days, and it looked incongruous in the mornings to watch the automatic sprinklers showering the lawn at Museum of Flight, overwhelmed by the rain (occasional T-storms, too, so close a friend and I saw lightning strike across the street below the end of the hall at our motel). A couple days later, they were overdue at their next tour stop (or two), so we took off behind the B-17, riding in the B-24J to look at the passes. Mac told me later that they had water in the mags so they turned off and listened to observations from the B-24 and TP-51C, which looked beautiful sliding in alongside, one of our "Little Friends." I have a great appreciation for the conditions of the aircrews, as Dad was a bombardier/navigator in the B-26 Invader (3rd BW, Korea), later to KC-97, KC-135 and a SE Asia tour in the C-130 (same calculations for dropping troops and cargo, speeds and drift of wind and airplane). Parts for these old birds (and cars and other equipment) have been getting harder to find and ship, not to mention that 130 octane vanished some time ago. Bob Stevens had some great cartoons about remembering a scarcity of that 130 octane gasoline in training at US bases during WWII, so 100 was substituted: hot fighter pilot students could easily find their airplanes coughing and going 'cold'... I attended several FAA, mostly our local USCG rescue swimmers doing the work, Emergency Egress sessions at our local pool in Alaska, and while underwater, you'll learn that you can relax and have more time underwater, or in a crisis, than you think you do. Giving the neighbor kids rides standing on my back while walking on hands and knees at the bottom of the pool was good practice.
I will never forget the saying of the FAA rep, "We're here for your safety." Right, but never forget, "The FAA is not flying the airplane." #1 rule: Fly the airplane. (On the road: Drive the car! I don't listen to the radio much, do Bluetooth, just keep my hands , feet and head on driving or flying or...)
I did not know about that clearing water out of the mags with nitrogen (inert gas). I do know that mechanics will tell you to avoid using ether to start a gas or diesel engine, so we always plug in the diesel engine heater when the temperature gets close to freezing. Thank you again.
Rip to all passengers crew and family.
Exceptional! Thorough! Professional!
Thank you Scott.
Much appreciated!
My dad was a crew member aboard the B-17, flew all 35 missions out of Thorpe Abbott field to targets over Nazi Germany, Eighth Air Force, 100th BG.
That's cool. I've been to Thorpe Abbott about a dozen times, really excellent museum there if you ever get the chance to go! Good on your Dad!!!
@@FlyWirescottperdue
I believe there’s a picture of my dad in the museum.
After his 35 missions, he worked in the control tower.
He told me many many stories and events he endured. As typical of guys of his generation, He told them as matter of fact, with little focus on himself.
My older brother was a backseater in F-4’s.
@@flyonbyya That's really cool. I probably saw his picture!
I'm not sure if you go on Social Media, or not. Though, I do consider UA-cam Social Media, so I assume you might. On Facebook, there's a page for the 100th BG. They would love to have you join.
@@Bluenose352
Sweet
Thanks!
I rode in the B-24 and you are right about safety briefing and they were working on the 4th engine the day I flew that almost made me back out because I am a techie and good car mechanic. What u stated about their safety procedures makes me glad we got back john g
I spent 5 years flying T6 giving rides with two different companies. This was starting in 2004. The economics of these flights were deteriorating quickly, all costs were going exponentially up. The most troubling was costs of spare parts, we are talking about the T6. This is a simple trainer and the amount and prices of spares just 10 years prior was better then your C172. With the second guy and two birds we did good job but the pressure was on. Our rides were pre sold as we traveled the country to fulfil them. There were many late nights at the airport to get the bird ready for the next day. We had a big trailer, we had parts, we had good A&P. Not once a tagged overhauled part or component would not work, that was another issue. It was lots of fun doing rolls and loops all day (except for getting puked on), but we were at our own little "war". We shared airports with the B17, B24, there were many more in their team, but it still was a road show. I don't think it is possible to do a road show with such complex aircraft today. We were also blind to many procedural things, single pilot crm, important but thankfully non accident failures were not seen in the correct light. I learned a lot, but only realised it once I got into a crew cockpit, interestingly it was the "bad" captains that allowed me to connect all the dots. Anyways just bit of "from" the road observation.
Thanks for sharing Pawel!
I watched the whole review, and I was astonished to hear such incompetences by the foundation that flies and mantains those invaluable artifacts.
Sad for the people who lost their lives on this one; but more for me; so sadd because it was my favorite airplane....
I loved the forensic study by this expert pilot..thanks for sharing.
..I want to relate an experience indirectly related to this, I have related it on other videos concerning this crash, so I will try to be brief...in 2013, the B-17, B-24, and TP-51C stopped at our local small airport in Blairsville, Ga...I had seen the bombers on tour before several times, but had never seen the TP-51C...It had just landed after giving a ride, and I walked around the aircraft, admiring it, and saw something that alarmed me..I am NOT an aircraft mechanic or pilot, but I saw the wing-to-fuselage fairing, fillet, whatever it is called, on the starboard side, had several missing rivets and a noticeable gap between the fillet and fuselage, clearly caused by the missing rivets...I could clearly see, that if the fillet departed the aircraft in flight, it was in direct line with the starboard horizontal stabilizer and had a good chance of taking it out, potentially causing the aircraft to crash...I promptly voiced my concern to a nearby volunteer, who then referred me to a younger guy(can't recall his name, but it was NOT Mac), who was supposed to be the flight/maintenance director, safety director, or something like that...I walked with him to the aircraft and pointed out the damage/issue, and was shocked and dismayed by his response.."Ah, it'll be alright", or something dismissive to that affect....I couldn't believe there was such a lack of concern for a potential safety issue....
The "safety director" probably worked at "Grease Monkey on weekdays. (Volunteers are hard to find. Knowledgeable WWII crew are now impossible, since all survivors are over 90. )
While I don't have a Mustang maintenance manual & I don't work on 51s, it is possible what you saw was Ok. Even supersonic aircraft have acceptable limits for missing fasteners. Have to ask a Mustang guy to know for sure in this case. Still, it's bad form for such a thing, both for peace of mind of potential paying passengers & for aesthetics of the aircraft, if it is a flyable. BTW, you've NEVER (nor will you EVER) flown on an aircraft that had zero issues. They all have flyable writeups.
Another great review Scott. I can’t get over how many accidents just didn’t have to happen.
It’s a shame for sure.
Thanks Scott. Great explanation. I live nearby & like to visit the aviation museum next to Bradley airport. This reminds me of the situation described in the book Unbroken which I read a few years back. Their B-24 went into the sea because, just like this, the wrong engine was feathered, creating the same 2 engines out on one side problem, instead of just one.
Great commentary, I thought from reading the initial reports that it was 3rd engine that had failed and the 4th was feathered, but then doubted that as other youtubers said it was number 4 that failed. Thanks for clearing that up. I agree with what you say here. This accident chain built for years. We as pilots need to be adamant about not accepting questionable things as ok because it worked before. Collings just built and opened a beautiful museum in Stow/Hudson Massachusetts. I can't imagine flying an aircraft with mags in the condition those were in, I wonder if the Collings warbird program was victim of a cash crunch due to construction burdens that prevented those mags from being rebuilt. It still was inexcusable to fly that aircraft in that condition.
I was actually working across the street from the airport when this happened. 23 years in Windsor locks and it was one of the craziest things I've seen.
I was the jet on final that ATC was talking about. I heard/witnessed all of this go down. I remember saying out loud in the cockpit “just declare man.” Now looking back I wished I had said it over the radio to them. It might have made a difference... Great video though!
Another outstanding video, A sad circumstance too close to home for me, but thankfully one we can learn from. I loved the discussion about VMC without a lecture (although I've had the benefit of watching the prior videos), and the chain of events. The lack of CRM you mention reminds me of the moment in the "Miracle on the Hudson" where Sully askes Jeff Skiles if he has any ideas. Bravo and well done!
Your evaluation absolutely nailed it. CRM is so very important.
Thank you for applying your considerable wisdom and experience to this tragedy for the benefit of all aviators. Quite the best analysis of this avoidable accident on UA-cam. I once had the nerve to comment on a warbird pilot who was filmed flying with his helmet strap undone. He replied with a tirade of abuse. Just the attitude you describe. Wise men learn by their mistakes. Wiser ones learn by the mistake of others. Subscribed.
Seeing more... And more... Of videos like this, make me not want to set foot on a plane flying under the living history flight exemption, as much as I would LOVE a ride. But as a new pilot, these videos are incredibly eye opening, and really drive the point home
This can happen on any aircraft. You would have to stop flying altogether.
Another wonderful report. I'm a bit embarrassed that i found you so late! If any consolation I will watch all your videos though it may take me quite a while. All the best.
Thanks Peter! Let me know how binge-ing me works! I’m not sure l could stand myself!
Thanks, nice breakdown of the Nine-oh-Nine accident.
How’s the saying go?.....”Take offs are optional...Landings are mandatory.”
Should the pilot have ever taken this plane into the air?
I am not a pilot nor fly very often, but your channel is informative and fantastic. It is sad the results of these souls. Thank you for the detailed explanation.
Thanks for throwing some light on this tragedy . It`s possibly fair to say that your analysis is spot - on .
Flying with “iffy” magnetos or any engine components is ridiculous. There is enough potential for problems with good engines let alone a known engine problem that might pack up at the most inopportune time of takeoff. Feathering the wrong engine a disaster waiting to happen. Now you’ve got a dead wing you should never turn into.
Immediately declare emergency if not able to maneuver ship back to runway chose a belly landing if any suitable terrain available.
The old bird can’t stay airborne if you can’t get enough power. It’s a testament to the B17 airframe she did as well as she did. Barely above stall with two engines out. Gear down and side slip incredible drag force.
The B - 17 wing will begin it’s stall phase at rear wing root an progressively move forward and outwardly to wingtip. The prop wash of live wing will tend to slightly increase the lift regime of that wing. The dead wing now will fall off into a dropping spin. The only remedy is altitude to increase airspeed by nose down to regain lift. If control can be regained you must fly her out very gingerly by turning only into live wing.
With out altitude you are rapidly running out of options. You must use remaining air speed to attempt landing on existing terrain. Probably a wheels up to avoid further drag.
That’s why you run up engines prior to takeoff. One engine out at this critical regime with out full load and adequate remaining runway you may attempt light angle climb out for go around for emergency return. Inboard engine out will reduce drag felt on that side. Outboard engine will increase felt tendency to yaw into that wing. Shut systems off to dead engine and verify with crew of dead engine. Do not feather live engine. First and foremost fly the aircraft.
If able to skid land cut all systems at impact to reduce fire. All crew out of nose and endeavor to remove seat harness buckles and egress aircraft by nearest exit hatch. Good chance of fire with remaining fuel load.
the mechanic who timed lindberg mags should be given equal recognition....hour after hour functioning,how many revs...reliable.
Thank you Scot. Your clarity of thought is good teaching. We need that.
Hey Scott
I have watched both Juan Browne's and your comments on this crash. Yours is a fabulous video. Thank you so much. I find your comments on the culture of the fee-charging warbird community like the Collings Foundation to fill in the missing link in the discussion of this accident and those like it. The FAA doesn't appear to understand the culture enough to know how to manage this community safely. Unfortunately, this crash is the primo case in point. So many broken links in the chain leading up to this tragic accident. I am saddened to the point of tears. Mac's management of the flight from "blowing out" the mags to get engines started, the lack of runup before takeoff, feathering the wrong engine (you and Juan disagree), putting the gear down way too early, no training or even seat for the loadmaster/mechanic, etc., the whole thing is a lack of culture buy-in as you so clearly say. Thanks again for so beautifully nailing the key issue. Merry Christmas to you and yours.
Dr. Mike Smith
Thank you Mike. I appreciate your comments!
Thanks for doing this, Scott. Juan has also made a couple of excellent videos breaking down the NTSB report on this accident. His perspectives are similar to yours in many respects and differ in a few...which is a graphic illustration of why CRM is so important. Both of you bring expertise and thoughtful analysis to your reports...but also unique perspectives...which gives us a clearer picture of the events which led up to this tragedy.
Nobody can ever know exactly what happened in that cockpit or why it happened. Your analysis adds more important pieces to the puzzle. Thanks again.
Thank you Joe, I really appreciate that!
I flew in this exact plane about 15 years ago when it was in the Northeast. Little did I know how much of a chance I was really taking.
Thank you for your excellent report. I also watched Juan’s video, and at my level of understanding, I thought his report was also excellent.
Scott, I don’t know what algorithm sent me to your video today, but it could not have been more relevant. My friend David died in this crash. David was a Collins PM and I was his customer for many years. He was a huge enthusiast and jumped at the chance to fly in this plane. Your review answered a lot of questions for me. It also makes me very angry at a culture that allows this type of incompetence to occur.
Thanks Gary, I hope this answered a few questions!! I had a lot going in, that's for sure.
This aircraft was not airworthy. It should never have left the ground, with those ignition system, maintenance, and performance problems. As for the captain, he broke just about every rule he could have. His first officer was not checked out on the B-17, but he was an experienced
airline pilot. The captain completely ignored the man in the right seat. There was no CRM.
A tragic but avoidable crash.
This video helps point out that the pilot did not avail himself to a multitude of resources...
1. Use crew to help manage the problem.
2. Use engines to greatest extent possible.
3. Retain gear in up position to keep drag low.
4. Declare emergency -- get help from ATC
5. Use perfectly good runway 33.
Use just one of the resources available and the full disaster is most likely avoided.
There is a photo of him servicing the B-17 from the very top of a step ladder. Obviously, that is not a safe practice, which may indicate a general attitude.
Like this video, the intent here is to evaluate and improve piloting -- nothing more.
Sympathy goes out to all the families of the lost, especially the pilot's family...
Absolutely right!
@@FlyWirescottperdue I would add, it is critical that we evaluate every unplanned factor after takeoff, large or small, with consideration for "the chain of events." By factor number two, red lights should be going off. DANGER THE CHAIN HAS STARTED -- get on the ground ASAP.