N252DL C-310R Poolville TX 14 Jan 2024
Вставка
- Опубліковано 27 вер 2024
- LINKS:
Aviation Safety Network: aviation-safet...
Flightaware: www.flightawar...
MERCH: blancoliriosto...
Flying Eyes 10% OFF: flyingeyesopti...
PATREON: www.patreon.co...
GEFA Aviation Scholarship: goldenempirefl...
Learning The Finer Points -10% OFF! www.learnthefi...
Theme: "Weightless" Aram Bedrosian
• Weightless - Aram Bedr...
www.arambedros...
Retired USAF, Crew Chief and flying crew member. (70s-90s)
The worst thing of all, was how the loss of aircrew was on the spouse (and family). I cannot imagine the absolute grief of his wife/mother of the children.
Just heart breaking all around.
Thank you Juan, for bringing such concise and no BS analysis and presentation, time after time.
To those not well versed in "all things aviation" or proper debrief, this is the template, right here.
The kids were 6 and 8. Makes me sick thinking about it.
....and no banjo music. Takes "that other guy" a half hour to get to the point.
I was flying 15 miles south when the pilot crashed and there was severe icing conditions. Wasn’t a good day to fly. RIP
But I'm sure you was aware before hand that there's icing conditions.
@@RubenKelevra was an airmet for icing so anyone who preflighted knew what they were getting into. Had the 22T on max when descending through about 6 thousand
Wonder what his rush to go up in those conditions was and risk his kids too.
@@badkneesone probably get-there-itis or invincibility due to his profession and social status?
@@jaredh723sounds like you took a risk and relied heavily on anti ice measures that are not fool proof. Smart.
His brother said on local news that they got an SOS message and went and found the wreckage themselves. RIP and condolences to the the brother.
I can not even imagine how devasting that must have been , loss of a brother and 2 young children 😢😢
@@BassBrigade2089 probably means an automated SOS, like from Apple Watch
@@vasilivhthis. I think they use the accelerometer in the watch/ phone to judge if there has been a car crash, gives you an alert on your device, then if you don't acknowledge it automatically calls/ notifies your emergency contact and/or 911, depending on how you have it set up. I recall seeing a commercial touting this feature. Basically turns your device into an epirb.
@@BassBrigade2089 it sounded like it was the automated crash detection from the phone. The apple SOS service.
@@BassBrigade2089 because having an apple watch / iphone is the only thing that makes sense, he wasn't going to be calling or messaging anyone "SOS" while crashing, while his watch/phone would have done exactly that
An advisory I learned early and repeat often. "Most bad weather accidents are investigated a few hours later in good weather".
Exactly. I can live to evaluate whether it's worth being pissed off about a delay.
So sad, but so true.
Pilots dying in bad weather are often buried in sunshine
I was flying in and out of DFW all day that day. Yes, my CRJ picked up pretty good icing in the clouds in the descent out of about 6000’. It was mostly clear above that, plus a temperature inversion where it was about 14-15 degrees Celsius above the clouds around 7000’.
love me some crj flights
Same, above clouds at 210 knots descending we had a tat of 12c. Immediately entering imc tat dropped to 8c.
I saw the aftermath of icing in Jan 1995 at the airport in Guthrie, Ok. Another 310 stalled during a landing, slammed down onto the runway. Collapsing the gear, broke the left wing and skidding off the runway into the grass. Luckily the father and his daughter survived and were not hurt. This happened at night while they were head to Colorado if I recall correctly, to go skiing. I got in at 7am that morning and my boss too me out to show what happens when you get ice on a plane and the dangers. The ice was still all over it in cone shapes on everything to the wings, stab, vert, spinners and so on. I was extremely surprised no one had serious injures.
Talk about lucky
Wow, appreciate the comment on your history witnessing this sort of thing and appreciate your boss taking the time to educate you on it as well. Just such a terrible tragedy that appears could have been avoided with better judgement by the pilot.
RIP and condolences to his family and friends. When something like this happens you really realize what a delicate balance it is that keeps an aircraft in the air. Even the slightest amount of ice can bring the largest plane down quickly if it doesn't have de-icing capabilities.
"Aviation in itself is not inherently dangerous. But to an even greater degree than the sea, it is terribly unforgiving of any carelessness, incapacity or neglect." -- Captain Alfred Gilmer 'Lamps' Lamplugh
That's why you don't fly an airplane in icing conditions if it haven't got deicing capabilities.
I think that this was intentionally.
But you know before you take off that you don't have de-icing capabilities. You also know the freezing level.
Do you go fly an instrument approach without the instruments?
@@chrisnoname2725 yeah I think this one was intentional.
"the slightest amount of ice can bring down an aircraft quickly" - not really. Not even close. Why do people say rubbish like this when they have no idea what they're talking about?
When I was working on my Commercial license my flight instructor asked me what was the minimum required equipment for known-icing conditions.... I started to list the components. He stopped me and said- a 737
You can get with lesser planes.
The point of known ice planes is to help you if you end up in it. You should never knowingly fly a piston plane into known ice
@@coasternut3091 I fly a single engine turbine and when it comes to ice I don’t play around. If any icing is forcasted it has to be light or I’m planning around it. Also have to have some reliable escape routes built in for me to fly into forcasted light ice areas. (Can I get on top? Underneath? Around? Below freezing level but maintaining terrain clearance? All questions we have to have an answer for before takeoff. (freezing rain is always a no go especially if close to freezing at surface)
This was the worst weather we've had in Texas since the Feb 2021 major winter storm. Not sure if he expected to get behind it or beat it to his N. Texas destination. Further downwind in Houston, we were expecting frozen precipitation and snow showers the next day. I didn’t even drive the car for those two very, very cold nights and days for Texas. It's all too frequent that we lose people flying out of hunting destinations due to some of the nasty weather conditions we get, even in mild winter temps.
@@jaw065 that's just good piloting
My hard and fast no-go is the freezing level. Seen too many accidents related to icing.
Damn shame. I had planned a flight in west TX a week ago, checked all my weather apps and it looked like an easy VFR flight over Lubbock to Amarillo. But I always get a weather briefing in winter, and when I did I learned that icing conditions had set in along my route that were not noted in ForeFlight or my other aviation weather forecasts. I drove instead, and an easy 2-hr flight became a 6-hr drive, but I got there alive. Icing is no joke. 1-800-WXBRIEF is your friend. I wonder if this pilot used it?
I was flying in to Tyler that day as the winter storm system was moving in. I was in an Citation. We were only in the clouds for a couple of minutes on the approach but picked up quite a bit of clear ice. What was really crazy about it was the temperature inversion that particular day. It was 12 degrees at like 5,000’ and by the time you got to 2,000 it was below freezing. Really really weird and very favorable conditions for some pretty heavy icing.
That was a time to reduce power, push out the landing lights and come down at 1,500 fpm and get through it very quickly, or better yet, find a better place to go. I can't imagine what was so important with your kids on board that waiting a day couldn't work.
@@kristinwinter5006get there-itis. A common human factor that affects all pilots but more so the pilots with less experience.
I live south of Tyler. Somebody flew over the house northbound just above the treetops. That was only the second time it’s happened in 20 years. Maybe they were on the deck because of the weather.
@@PeopleAlreadyDidThis When was this? It couldn’t have been me because I was simply on the LOC and GS landing on 04.
12* is below freezing. Can you correct your data?
I always appreciate the tasteful and objective analysis of these events. All of these fatal accidents involve people's friends, family and loved ones and Juan handles it with sensitivity. We can all learn so much from these accidents, and we should, so they don't happen again, and we don't make the same mistakes.
With these crazy low temps ANY moisture you hit will cause icing. And it will be to the ground. Here in midwest we had freezing fog at ground level recently, something rare here.
Good point, nightmarish scenario and again why situational awareness is so important!
I flew C208B's for 11 years in the midwest, 11 winters of commuter airline flying under my belt from Minnesota to Michigan to Wisconsin, Chicago to Iowa to Missouri, Arkansas, Tenessee, to Atlanta, so I'm no stranger to flying in the ice. This doesn't look like an icing encounter accident to me just looking at the data presented. I would like to hear the ATC tapes, that would give a lot more information.
If the altitude recovery, however brief, occurred, something else is involved in this. What a tragedy for the family and challenge for the NTSB. RIP x 3.
I agree. Normally the data would show a level off, followed by a steady decrease in groundspeed. Data here seems to show a constant groundspeed with no attempt to arrest the descent. It will be interesting to see what the investigation reveals.
@@toddsmith8608 I agree with that. I hate to speculate, but I've got a few ideas about what might have happened. I will say that I think ice may have been a Contributing Factor, but it sure doesn't look like a Primary factor, at least from this tidbit of data. I reserve the right to change my opinion as more data comes out, although I don't think I will have to.
Yea, looks like it flew into the ground more so than fell into the ground for sure
Poisoning!
Flew these for a long time in the Northern UK across the Irish sea and the North sea. I had full de-icing kit, props, windows, boots on tail and wings. It was still a handful even in inadvertent mild icing conditions. Ice builds up between the engines and fuselage under the leading edge of the wing. Then as it gets slow the AoA increases and the ice increases.. it cannot survive for long ... and ice builds up on the front of the main tanks...
Oddly, I was looking for routes both by air and on land to get a cancer patient into Houston from that area where Dr. Smith crashed.
It was definitely ice…it was not suitable to fly in.
My sincere condolences to the family…
Those ADS-B speed fluctuations are a common artifact for some aircraft on FlightAware. My last flight in a 182 had an occasional ground speed shown on FlightAware of 344 knots! It seems to be primarily aircraft with 978mhz UAT ADS-B out combined with a mode S transponder and is likely due to MLAT approximations when the aircraft moves out of UAT receiver range.
We picked up some light rime ice on approach into DFW in the 73 when this happened and made a PIREP. Really sad accident.
The best aviation page on YT, hands down.
I think dan is a close tie also ✌🏻
Dan is a misogynist and a conspiracy theorist who defames people for youtube views ($1m defamation judgement against him last fall). @@AnonYmous-v1f6b
@@AnonYmous-v1f6b not even close...my respect for Juan motivates me to leave it at that
@@AnonYmous-v1f6bwho is Dan?
Totally agree.
Little extra info.
These early 310Rs usually only had dual 50 amp alternators so they weren’t equipped well. Later model Rs got the dual 100 amp alternators which allowed for a hot plate on the windshield and hot prop prop de ice. 310R is not certified for known ice without a hot plate on the window and of course boots.
And the hot plate runs $10K for a refurbished one.
I was out the one week ago and it was hell. I was in a Citation XL and we were hearing reports of icing all over and moderate to severe turbulence. This winter weather is no joke! Take good care people.
Greetings from Canada in this cold freeze: I wouldn't get into my TRUCK right now. Stay safe all the way to Alabama.
😂
I’ve lived a lot of my life in a place where we get real winter, but I’ve never seen freezing rain here. However, I’ve spent the last two winters in Texas and I now have a clear understanding of what freezing rain is. I could not possibly imagine getting in a plane in those conditions, and like you I wouldn’t get out on the road either! Totally irresponsible to think you’re safe to fly or drive in those conditions.
"A deicing boot consists of a thick rubber membrane that is installed over the surface to be deiced. As atmospheric icing occurs and ice builds up, a pneumatic system inflates the boot with compressed air. This expansion in size cracks any ice that has accumulated, and this ice is blown away into the airflow. The boots are then deflated to return the wing or surface to its optimal shape."
One problem with boots, if icing is bad enough ice can start to bridge the inflated boots and make them useless.
@@wb6anp Right....I've been told there is some technique required with them as too early use can stretch the ice out and the rest then bridges on it where the boots can't break it off. Got to wait until there's enough that's thick enough to shatter when the boots inflate but not wait so long that they can't break it.
So sorry to hear about this devastating loss. May they rest in peace. 😢
A specific condition, and one we don’t usually see here in North TEX much, was happening that day and may have impacted this flight. Lake effect snow! There was a strong north wind and single digit F temps. Practically all areas south of lake size bodies of water were getting snow. Note Lake Bridgeport at his destination, 20 miles to the north of this accident.
wow, You would think that the weather forecast would have said something, it did. this guy was an idiot...
And Sunday, 14 Jan.
my brother once chartered a 310 with a young kid pilot from ohio to iowa...IMC....at night...iced up( sounded like someone was slapping the side of the nose when ice flung off) this kid was concentrating so hard on altitude he forgot to switch tanks so we got a momentary loss of breath. We probably came pretty close to dying that night. I'm glad i was to young ,maybe 15, to realize it at the time
Buddy holly territory almost ✌🏻
Ice hitting the nose is normal.
What a tragedy for the family and community. Hope they’re getting a lot of help and support.
Excellent summary as usual. Week in week out it seems, yet another light twin death zone. Basic training is still wanting. Pick only one. ice, imc, night, terrain as Dan Gryder says.
Wow... I heard this aircraft on my scanner when he was talking to ATC about his route of flight and how to get around the weather. I live between Houston and San Antonio and get a lot of different traffic, mostly airliner. I looked the enroute weather up and thought he had to have been in a jet. I didn't look the N number up.
What frequency was he on?
@@brandongentry66 My scanner picks up various ARTCC sites (sectors) and a couple of RCAG sites. The scanner, a Uniden SDS 200, isn't near me so I rarely see what site it's picking up. Assuming the flight was direct my guess is it was an RCAG, San Antonio ARTCC, or Austin.
It was not a good day for a GA aircraft to be in the air. We have too many resources at our fingertips to not know icing conditions existed.
@@MichaelLloyd yessir I had the same thoughts. He was a friend of mine. Experienced pilot. Doesn’t make sense.
@@brandongentry66 First let me say I'm very, very sorry for the loss of your friend and his children. I had a big reply typed up and accidentally lost it. I spent 30m looking at the ADSB track on ADSB Exchange. I have the paid version because I have a receiver and share data with them. IMHO it's a lot better than the free one. Anyway. The short version of what I typed. The ASN link in Juan's description is decent. ADSB Exchange doesn't show the spikes in airspeed that FlightAware shows. He had a fairly normal flight. I don't think it was icing either but I don't know. Somewhere around Hamilton he started a 600(ish+) fpm descent from 6,800' to 6,700, completing that around Hamilton where he started a climb back to 6,800. He completed that a little before (west of) Grandbury. Then at 18:04:33, 228 kts, 6,825', he started a descent and at 18:05:02 he was at 226kts and 6,650'. Nothing alarming there. From there he started a normal descent and slowing the aircraft for approach. The final ping was descending, 1,575', 151kts. That's low. There are a lot of towers and power lines between him and the airport but they are all 300-400' agl. 4,200' is the OROCA for that sector. 3,700' is the OROCA for the Mineral Wells sector (that's what I'm calling it because it's to the east of Mineral Wells.) There are two towers along the route of flight. 1,482' (320' agl) and 1,362' (261' AGL). His last ping was at 1,575'. I would think someone would notice if a tower or power line was struck but extrapolating the terrain is around 1,100' in that area. I wonder if he had a local altimeter setting?
They’re all tragic but wow, a young surgeon and his sons… heartbreaking.
A heartbreaking loss, my condolences to the family and their friends. I hope our aviation families heed the lessons learn from this accident.
We don't need people to die to know not to do things. The rest of us don't do this.
It's not like some new thing that nobody knew about nor something that I've seen pilots be complacent with. At least not where i live.
Lots of the accidents on here won't just happen to anyone. Lots are not freak accidents. Before you take off you know if your aircraft is equipped for icing conditions. You know not to fly below minimums on approach and fly into power lines well off to the side of the runway, to not descend into a valley at high density altitude. Not to fly into cloud without a working AH.
People make mistakes. These aren't mistakes. These are arrogance
Can't tell you how many times we picked up ice, made an unscheduled landing and on descent didn't break out at the forecast ceiling
It's really cold here in TX right now. Even yesterday, SA international was near dead, didn't see much commercial air travel coming in or leaving and I live in the medical center in SA, near the airport. If it's a bit too cold for domestic & international flights, I couldn't imagine being in a small plane in these horrid icing conditions without de-icing equipment. And remember: de-icing equipment is made for you to ESCAPE an icing situation, not fly through it.
I don’t think it’s too cold for domestic and international flights.
De-icing is made for flight in icing conditions, except for severe icing. It really isn’t made to escape an icing situation. I’m perfectly fine flying a jet in icing conditions.
This plane flew over my house about 10 miles south of the incident site. Thought to myself self I hope the heater is working and ain’t no way I’d be flying in these conditions. Honestly thought it was a radial engine overhead and that’s why it caught my attention. It just sounded off for a twin.
Whoa! That's heavy. I wasn't that close to the crash site as you were. But the helicopter that crashed with Kobe Bryant aboard passed overhead about 150 yds. at 400 ft. altitude @ 150 mph. I remember a helicopter about 9:15 AM that morning that rattled my windows. I thought it was a MediVac because of the sound and speed. The LASD isn't up that early. I didn't know until I pulled up the flight later.
Hey Juan,
there was a small plane crash here in Massachusetts that killed the owner of a flight school as well as an instructor and student. I would appreciate it if you could make a video about this incident as we need to know more about it. Thank you.
On it....
Looking at the images of a fully intact BE-55 laying flat on the ground, yet another stall/spin accident. Little to no forward motion (no ground scars) of the aircraft upon impact.
We landed in DFW from MEM and had a large temp inversion in the bases of the clouds ~3K' MSL (~2400'AGL) Light rime, but nothing like ice we took on in MEM the night before. Got out and took pics, never had that much ice on a B737-NG before.
@@blancoliriogrim work, but important. Thank you for all you do.
@@krisskliegleka1gju900 Just read a short article on it. An eyewitness said the airplane came down in a "corkscrew descent."
@blancolirio there was another crash in Mooresville North Carolina a few days back if you could give us any insight on it that would be great. I think the pilot lived also, so that's a good rhing at least.
Thanks for this content Juan. This channel has given me the confidence to officially start my pilot training. You are such a good source of information and always remind us to take training seriously and never stop learning.
After Richard McSpadden died I've 100% given up on pursuing my ppl. If he can't make it, I have zero chance. I'll stick to flight sim with a VR headset
Don’t give up so easy. Also, better to be informed, Richard was not the reason his plane crashed.
don’t forget back to basics and actually flying being just as important when autopilot is not working properly…
me too. Going to set up a sim and fly it while I save money for cockpit hours. I'm not as bold as I used to be, and am in great health.
@@clarencethomasisthegoat Might as well stop driving too, if you had an engine failure because that's what happened to McSpadd. Blame the engine, not the person in such cases...and maybe you should focus on twin engines airframes?
It's no secret how the Weather was so chronically bad in the US. The freezing icy conditions were being reported in Australia, so how did this pilot not notice. Ice build up is insidious in a number of ways, it builds up slowly, tends to be invisible in effect, and when it takes hold on an aircraft pilots can often not understand why an aircraft starts to fly like a rock. By that stage it's too late. I've seen icing conditions so bad that ice thrown off props has put a line of deep dents in the fuselage when de-icing boots on a prop fails.
I think you have a typo ? Australia ? Australia is in summer. Do you mean a town named Australia in the U.S. ?
It's summer here in Australia mate. There's been some big rains but nothing close to snow. I don't think the weather here is related to the weather in the US
@@65gtotrips think he means he heard about it halfway across the world, so a local should have known
@@65gtotrips Can confirm that Australia's heard about the bad weather and various blizzards going on in America. It was extremely amusing when one of them asked me what to do in a blizzard when 95% of this country doesn't even have snow.
@@65gtotrips The freezing icy conditions were being reported in Australia, yeah it was big news
I sold my 1973 C-310 to a guy that flew into ice and stalled it right over the runway.Hit so hard it tore of the right tip tank and bent the right wing.Don't mess with ice, if you get caught in it you are now a test pilot.
I started flying in 1970 at 66°N and became commercial in 1977. My home base for decades was Isafjordur in the West Fjords of Iceland and if you want experience in flying light twins in icing conditions, I am, or rather WAS (I've been retired now for 9 years) your man.
In my experience, airframe icing is not the most critical problem. Sure, you gain some weight and deform your airfoils somewhat, but the BIG issue is the degradation of the efficiency of your most important airfoils; you propeller blades!
Once you lose thrust, you are sunk. Failed wing/stab de-icing boots are a genuine problem, but failed PROP de-icing boots are a disaster! Believe me, I've been there, done that!
If I were to rate anti-ice/de-ice capabilities in order of importance, I would call prop de-ice most important, followed by windshield/pitot tube anti-ice (you HAVE to see where you are going to land safely).
Having often flown to Bíldudalur, and on the postal flight hopping up to Ísafjarðar many thanks!
I lost my brother ,he was flying his glassir 111, over Cheyanne Wyoming ,no explanation for the crash I think you may have something there with prop icing as the farmer he flew over said the engine was going flat out( he was experienced with planes) gives me something to ponder about
Ugh. Condolences to the family; especially to his widow, surviving son, and brother who found the wreckage.
Once flying on a Dash-8 as a passenger from Portland to Vancouver I was not too happy several minutes watching ice to grow at the wing's nose ...
But it melted prior to our landing.
I probably built that 310. I worked on the 310 line for a few years before I left in 1978 to flight instruct full time. Most of my multi-engine training was done in a 310.
No better advise given Juan, currently instrument training in Omaha, where winter weather conditions come into the go no go decision constantly. RIP Dr Smith, prayers be with you
There is a huge misunderstanding of deice capability and requirements. I owned a 1976 C310R that had boots on the outer wing, horizontal stab, and heated props. This plane was NOT FIKI (flight into known ice) yet many believe you could plan and fly through known ice. The 1977 and on are FIKI certified with the addition of inner wing boots, vertical stab boots, and a windshield hot plate. Bottom line Do Not Plan or Fly into known or forecast ice unless your plane if FIKI certified on the type certificate.
Blunt explanations about ice conditions, on intro, very well done 👍 RIP to those who died
Man, I hate to see the loss of another classic 310. The loss of a pilot and his family is tragic, especially since it (at first) seems so avoidable. It's also sad to see the loss of such a beautiful plane. A 310 was my first twin engine trainer, they were almost like jets in the 70's. I love those things, but they are nothing to mess with.
I read the background on this man and family. A huge loss for their community. A wonderful man all around. Condolences to his wife and family.
Sad sad . My condolences to the family. I live in Minnesota, I don’t and will never fly on a cloudy day in the winter . For that reason I’ve only flown twice since December 1th. Ice is nothing I wanna mess with
My dad would have flown the next day…we never flew in icing conditions intentionally…but every once in awhile we would pick up some rime ice on the oat gauge and the ADF antenna …that was in a Bonanzas..icing is scary….😱
I got my ME in the 310 R model. We had boots. We also had a gasoline Genitol ? cabin heater (sometimes it would not work and there was a limit to the start attempts) but it was subject to carbon monoxide leaks, so we always kept the CO2 indicator in case of leaks (we never had one, but it was a possibility). I flew about 200-250 hours in it for charter Pt 135 pay. It was a great airplane. I think you're right about the icing encounter. RIP doc and kids.
The heater is a Janitrol in the twin Cessnas. Southwind in the old Piper Apache (Brrr).
@@cfi1598 I thought it was the reverse of that, Southwind in the Cessna and Janitrol in the Piper Aztec? The Aztec heater would frequently quit on me including one time when I flew the US Attorney General from IAD to ROC, so embarrassing?!
@@dutchflatsthe 1975 Cessna 340A I flew had the Janitrol heater and it started smoking on one of my trips. I worked on an 1974 Aztec and it had the Janitrol heater. The Southwind was used in a number of aircraft also. Both have had ADs issued against the older units. Even the Cessna 172 had the option to install a gas heater. I believe that it was for the Southwind.
@@cfi1598 So I looked it up and the OEM heater for the serial number of the aircraft I flew (310R) was a Southwind # 8259HR2 45,000BTU gas heater. Don't know but a number of aircraft could've had replacement parts installed?
😢 rest in peace :( No life should be cut that short.
My brother in law is currently stuck in Nashville because big deiced jets are cancelled to fly north to NY. Actually flights have been cancelled for at least two days out of Nashville . This, I'll get you there" attitude is crashing a lot of planes this year do to pilots (actually not thinking) thinking they are better than nature .
ty, jb...with the icing conditions, will be interested to hear the safety protocol at hand that may have avoided this.
Amen, sadly again, Mr. Brown. When a triple 7 pilot refuses to fly GA in IMC, that kinda sayz it all. Hopefully more people will hear you. Keep up the good work. Thank you.
Hindsight, while so often 20-20, it is also all too often sad sight. Heartfelt condolences to all those and their families devastated by this incident.
RIP
Back when I flew for a living, we had a saying; "Hindsight is a lot more like 20-10. Make your foresight 20-10, and you'll live longer." The longer I flew, the more I realized the truth to it. In my final years, at the end of the weather briefing, I'd ask myself what about this flight would the accident investigation board members shake their heads about and ask "What was he thinking?" Based upon the flight data, I'm not at all convinced that this was an icing-induced crash. Hopefully, the board will be able to find the cause.
Some record cold winters the last few years. Rough stuff
From what I remember flying the 310. If the windshield is obscured by ice it can very difficult to deal with. Add that to possibly trying to scud run, it’s not a good combination for sure. It will be interesting to see what they figure out on this.
Thank you for making these videos. I know it can't be easy to cover these tragic incidents, but it's a great service to the aviation community. Thank You.
He did his residency at Roanoke, VA, within 50 miles of my home in Dublin, VA. Gary C. Cope, former USAF-CAP pilot. This is a very sad story. :
Even if an aircraft has anti ic equipment or flight into known icing conditions equipment, doesn't mean you can !
RIP...to the souls on board.
Thx Juan...
A man's gotta know his limitations.
Or should fly.
One of my first jobs in 1980 was flying a 310R nightly from Kansas City to Chicago and return. The airplane had known ice equipment and it got a workout in the winter. The biggest problem was dealing with mixed rime building forward on the tip tanks. I can imagine the accident aircraft was overwhelmed with ice very quick. Condolences to friends and family left behind.
Juan thanks for all you do. I thought the 310R was fiki, it looked like the accident aircraft had deice boots. I know the area got some bad snow that day, I'm guessing it was just too much icing to handle. I've heard stories of people from hot states (ie Texas) not being used to icing and so maybe forgetting pitot heat and so altitude is unreliable and autopilot flies you right into the ground as well.
Have you seen the baron 55 that went down in MA? Looks like another Vmc demo turned uncoordinated stall/spin. Flight school chief instructor and owner and student on board. We really need the FAA to change the multi requirements. As a twin pilot, I see no reason to ever go below Vyse especially as a "demonstration" to see how bad it is. We should be teaching to maintain blue line at all costs, even if it means a descent is all you can maintain. What are your thoughts? I think as someone who advocates for airplane safety this would save a lot of lives if that were changed. We have had 5 or so crashes during Vmc demos in the last year or so
I flew last week in a Challenger650, the weather was terrible everywhere 2 to 400 foot ceilings in fog .seemed like all over the country a half mile or less in many places. Even in Las, Vegas was down to 500 feet and rain never seen that in 22 years.
A sad loss for the community indeed. Condolences to the family, friends, and community.
Wonder if the steady descent allowed the control surfaces to ice into position... Then shocked pilot barely breaks them free before impact but then after descent induced airspeed bleeds off, too much drag and too little lift for sustained flight from remaining ice. It's a story that fits the data...
What my old aviation mentor told me back in the 80's, if you look at most weather related accidents, its usually clear and beautiful the very next day
Same with tornado disasters, too....
So tragic. A news article quotes the brother of the pilot stating he was confident in his brother's skill as a pilot as he had over 2 decades of flying experience having gained his license in high school. There was also an 11 year old son who didn't go on the hunting trip because of a math and science competition at school. That young man will live all his life wondering about the if's and why's of what happened.
I was supposed to fly a jet out of Houston - IAH on this day and the weather was nasty. Limited de-ice equipment at the airport led to my flight and hundreds of others being cancelled.
Who in their right mind flys with overcast at 3,000 and minus 11 degrees C without icing protection... Yikes.
A surgeon determined to get where he needs to be.
RIP. I'll never understand such decisions. Anything can wait a day. God Bless those good people.
Condolences to his family may he and his sons R.I.P,thanks Juan safe flights to you mate,🙏🙏🙏👍🇦🇺
Sad situation. God bless the family.
First time i ever got into ice was eye opening to say the least. Went from smooth sailing to aluminum icicle very quickly!
Could it be that he failed to make a cold temperature correction for pressure altitude? Seems 800ft/min ROD is a controlled descent - not one influenced by ice on the leading edge. Possibly some ice on the pitot system?
What was the pilot thinking, the area here is way below freezing at ground level, I can just imagine in a small plane this size up in the sky, what horrible out come
I’m wondering if it was get there -itis or something , just heart breaking no matter what , especially the kids 🙏💔
I once flew for a 135 operation. The day they asked me to fly a Cessna 210 with only a hot prop into known icing conditions in the Pacific Northwest was my last day. The first phrase “you’re fine until you’re not” strikes home in this and all icing situations.
This reminds me of my last day. I flew into a village in Alaska and couldn't find our agent. So found some transportation and brought the mail to the PO myself. This all took so long the company initiated S&R on me. Later the station manager told me he was glad they didn't loose me on my last day after all, I was glad too.
I was a 135 cargo nite pilot...never flew when freez.lvl was on the ground...changed many jobs; but still alive @70 yrs
His brother said Smith got his license in high school, had been flying for 20 years, and was an experienced & cautious pilot. His brother suspects the weather cold front as a factor in the crash. Smith left behind a wife and 1 older son.
It's like there wasn't an actual winter storm in the news for the last three days.
I've flown in some conditions that even with FIKI capabilities I was worried for the safety of the flight. It always makes me a little nervous regardless.
Weather makes you nervous?
Good, it should. As a GA pilot i believe it is the MOST underappreciated risk factor. “Good enough” ADM leads to poor (almost joke-level) flight planning. Ice should seriously concern us. Things can go south FAST. You are wise to be nervous.
Damn, I love this plane model, too…RIP pilot and passengers.
Dam! Tragic. Hearing the kids were onboard sicken me.
Thanks Juan, you have the best aviation safety channel by far.
It is looking like there have been a couple of recent crashes that indicate these new electronic devices such as the autopilot may require a lot more airtime training before a license is issued, if money is not a problem it looks like one can get their license with only a few more hours than getting a driver's license. The young lady who went down in Tennessee recently was lost while circling the airport she had just taken off from was in clear sight of her craft, a clear sign of no idea of what she was doing, and was trying to get the autopilot to get her out of trouble.
With an autopilot if you don’t set an altitude, it will climb or descend until something stops it. In this case it seems that the plane descended on autopilot as commanded and was stopped by cumulus granitus
My advice to all instrument rated pilots: Stay out of the clouds in icing, period. No exceptions. Stay at least 3 to 4 thousand feet below the freezing level. If you can't do that, don't fly. There are two things most general aviation pilots need to avoid at all cost: Thunderstorms and icing conditions.
I think you accidentally misstated which temp was dewpoint @2:00.
Thank you for being Juan Brown.
Condolences to his family
What was the air pressure (QNH) at departure and destination? When I flew coast to coast several times in a Mooney back in the day I crossed fronts a couple of times that had a significant change.
I am not sure that this is just an icing issue.
that said...ICING IS A FACTOR THAT MUST BE RESPECTED!
I agree... the data doesn't really look like an icing encounter.
@BKD70
I believe that icing was a concern for the pilot. possibly a concern that became a distraction.
the possibility of icing may have changed the pilot's familiar approach, causing loss of situational awareness.
icing is a real threat in so many ways.
@@johnaikema1055 That may be possible, but with 11winters of commuter airline flying in C208's in my logbook, this ADS-B accident data doesn't really look like an icing encounter, at least not a typical one. There is a LOT more to this incident, and I don't believe that this ADS-B data tells very much of the story.
@@BKD70
I don't disagree.
that said I still think the possibility of icing could have played a key role in this very unfortunate situation.
caravans with ice are indeed a handful.
the boots you use do work...but weight on the tail is the end game. keep flying safe.
Fait is the Hunter. The three Cs, Climb, Confess, Conform. My CFIs strong advice. No shame in a DF steer, walking away is best.
Thanks Juan for your excellent, respectful, and informed analysis. I learn something from every video that makes me a safer pilot.
So sad. God bless their souls and their surviving family.
We live about 35 miles from Poolville and we had snow on the ground. I was 14 at our house. I read he wanted to get home to watch the Cowboys play. How very sad for the entire family. We was a well liked doctor in the area according to what I have read. I saw an older picture in an newspaper of the entire family in the plane with a dead buck from a hunting trip, they flew the entire dead buck back in the plane? You could see the 10 point antlers and his head. That’s a lot of weight in the back of this plane, don’t you think?
Maybe, static port Icing leading to altimeter error and controlled flight into the ground?
There was a Fatal crash this past weekend in Half Moon Bay. Apparently, the plane was a homebuilt Cozy Mark IV. Never heard of it but I'm sure Juan will be on the case.
My heart is so sad. Those kids especially. Kids are everything.
From all that I have seen in the last few days all across the country...... now would be a fine time to STAY on the ground and at home to avoid something like this...... guess for some thats just impossible and ....... this is the results. Prayers for all involved.🙏
1/16/24...gotta love Juan's analytics, all those computer graphic slopes & spikes, altitudes, tracking paths, air speed & usually verbal ATC & pilot radio interaction. Then his +40 years of flying, from USAF training, jets, all types of small private av gas, turbo on up to biggest commercial Boeing/Airbus for long haul international (Australia, Japan etc) flying. Experience with his Cessna high wing types of a/c + his twin Cessna 230(?) makes his analysis of this most recent Cessna twin crash near Dallas, Texas riveting to hear how lack of de-iceing equip on this a/c flying in winter during known icing conditions makes this crash appear to be more mechanical-lack of equipment-than human judgement. Horrible loss of father, Medical Dr., & his 2 children & loss to community. RIP. Prayers go out to his family...
His lack of good human judgement trumps anything else. What a tragedy that was completely preventable. Prayers to the family.