Identifying wrought iron
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- Опубліковано 29 вер 2024
- One of the viewers sent me a few pieces of old iron tire and asked if I could tell whether or not it was wrought iron. Lets take a look at a simple test to determine if a piece of material is or is not wrought iron.
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My Grandpa used to say if it looks like the chocolate ribbon pattern on the top of a Heath toffee bar its wrought, if it looks like the inside of a Heath after it fractures its steel. He said this while breaking a 3 musketeers bar in half looks at the inside and says "Oh hello mr. cast iron".😂
I'm an archaeologist in grad school working in a lab and you really helped me out. I appreciate it man.
He makes more money than you ever will anyway😂
@@knightf8648 So what? Who asked?
@@knightf8648I highly doubt that
@@knightf8648 God forbid anyone put passion into their career, @knightf8648
Fantastic! Thank you! This is a question I had and will be able to test found metal from our family farm. 😊
Thanks John. I appreciate the video and test. I have about 30 feet of the stuff, should last me a life time. Thanks again.
I'm glad it answered your question
This was useful for me. Thank you.
This guys really looks like a down to earth professional. Loved the way he calmly explains his craft.
Thanks for demonstrating.
Hola john! Thankx for your helpful bids. Saludos desde Canarias, mathias
Well done. Lotta fun.
Well, a year and a half later I make a comment LOL! Nice quick video. You did a great job of showing the difference in garain structure. SMALL niggle, all metal has grain but WROUGHT has a rope style grain that is easy to see, esp when you do a test like the one you did. Sorry, a lifetime in Aerospace Jigs and Fixtures (16 years) finishing in tooling / weld inspection for 20 years (though I struck my first hot metal in 1969 (back when we had real shop classes in school!)).... I can get a bit UH, well, .... letter of the law (to put it nicely :P ) There is a reason that Anvils from the 1800s as a mark of quality had "made from the best quality scrap" stamped into the side. The more the wraught is refined, the better quality the metal will be as you noted in your video :D
As a beginner black smith that lives in iowa where can i get wroght iron i want to try and make a folded hatchet out of it with 5160 i know that ot may be out of my experience level bit i want to push myself and i dont feel i will learn if i dont challenge my self
👍👍
I was searching for Remodel pt. 6 ?
Sometime next week.
I've never seen a video 3 years old with only 6 dislikes, I'm convinced those might be accidental
Great look at wrought iron John.. Keep up the great content :-)
Yeah! 🙂
As always!! All these videos are absolutely brilliant informational tools to add to our repertoire of super informative & imperative learning skills to blacksmithing!! Thanks John!!
Thanks to Ron for the wrought iron, and thanks to you for the demonstration. I've heard the term wrought iron my hole life, but never knew how to identify it.
I have a 1870's hardware publication offering 15 different sizes of "wrought wagon tire stock". Here in the midwest alot of yard art tires go to scrap after the chic wears away. When in scrap yards pay attention to tires laying around. Employees prolly never heard of wrought iron. Great video.
That answered my question, Thank you! (Just subscribed)
Thanks for the sub!
I found another way to easily identify wrought iron. Start forging a set of tongs from what appears to be an old axle shaft from a hand barrow or cart. Start drawing out the bits, turn 90 degrees to offset the jaws and form the boss. Observe cracks forming and open voids and delamination in the 'steel'. Go a bit hotter on the next heat continue working until the cracks get bigger. Stare at ruined project for 5 minutes in confusion until it dawns on you that what you had assumed was mild steel is in fact wrought iron. Return stock to scrap pile.
Very nice, simple and clear demonstration of the character of WI. Video great as usual.
I am glad you pointed out the possible failure of the spark test to accurately identify the WI due to contamination. One time I was working with some real wrought iron that sparked almost identical to mild steel; really threw me off.
Thanks for showing this, I bought a house in Germany last year that was built in 1888 and the original owner was a blacksmith. I recently found a hidden stash of all his tools, (hammers, hardy tools, tongs etc ) and lots of iron and steel stock so I am interested to see if any of it is wrought iron, I will have some videos up of what I found here I am working on now and should be up in a few hours if you are interested to see, it took me a day just to closely examine everything and still have questions on some of the stuff I found.
Wow that must be the dream! i wish i would find a old blacksmiths hidden stash someday!
I live on a farm that was built in the 1870s, it burned down but was rebuilt in 1891. There is all kinds of scrap and junk lying around in the adjacent woods and while on a walk not too long ago I found an old destroyed wagon, all wrought iron. The wood is almost completely decayed so the iron is all loose, waiting to be picked up and forged
I see the wood like pattern in a lot of scrap metal at the beach is it possible erosion from sea water can create the layered look in steel?
I found a variety of items that I don't think are that old with a grain structure?
Great job of teaching, John.
Watched this for the first time over two years ago, and today I finally got my first piece of what I think is wrought. Going to slice off a piece of the bar and test it per your instructions. Hope it IS wrought, as I have about 75 pounds of 3 inch round! Hammer city!
4:44 looks like a bmw made of wrought iron
This brings up a question I have. I have heard the term "folded" applied to the making of ancient swords. Is that referring to the process you've demonstrated in the making of wrought iron? Fold, forge weld, fold, forge weld .... This brings up another question as to what is the limit as far as how many times the process can be repeated? I had read that 8 times would be the limit before the iron behaves like a piece of glass as far as durability. Otherwise, informative as always, John. Cheers.
I think in the case of swords they were adding carbon as the worked, but I have never tried it. There are people making pattern welded blades that are bringing the materiel up to as many as 1000 layers, so I doubt that it is possible to over refine a piece of wrought iron
Alec Steele did a 1 million layer Damascus project. But I believe the glass bit would refer to what john refered to where they add carbon.
@@shifty3453 my memory is a bit fuzzy, but I seem to remember the author mentioning carbon content. I guess that calling smithing an "art" is spot on.
So I would like to get into smithing and I live around a place run by the Amish that is seriously called Amish Walmart that has a lot of old stuff in piles and piles. Old Rusty axe heads, old wagon wheels, scythes, really you name it and this place has a rusty version of it. Anyways, I want to know what I can smith and what I can’t, but I can’t heat it up and bend it without buying. Is there anything I should stay away from? I guess everything that might be cast
Newbie here. It seems both wrought iron and bloomery steel are heated in a bloomery and then forged in coal to shape. How does one become steel and the other does not?
Or is my assumption wrong?
I just remember I have a coil of thinner wire, quite stiff but smaller diameter with a copper like coating ( a copper like green patina )
Cast iron vs wrought iron
Oh golly wrought iron
Very informative. Thanks for sharing this
Cool, learned a new skill today!
thanks, answers a question I have been wondering about. I remember as a kid the railings on the front porch how it split in layers as it aged and became rusted
That is also a good way to recognize wrought iron
It has been a long time, since I have seen any wrothiron , You have given us a very simple test to verify if it is! Thank you, John !
Take Care
Aah.
Thanks for valuable info.
Question for you. I read that blacksmiths turned pig iron into wright iron. Our rivers have lots of pig iron billets of pig iron 20lb- 40lb. Have you ever done this? How is it done? I read they work it into wrought iron. Pig iron contains lots of impurities and wrought iron is pure iron with few impurities. Just by heating and drawing it out? Is it truebiginners will find wrought iron easier to work with?
Ron gave me some of those wagon wheels when I ordered some steel from him a while back. It was really cool to see you John test it and now i know that it wrought iron. Thanks a lot and by the way. I watch your videos religiously. I love the series your doing now. Great help for us newer Smith's. Hope to be able to meet up some day. Thanks again. I really feel like I know you from your videos. One of the best out there for sure.
Thanks, glad you're enjoying the videos
I learnt from that !
Thanks for the video I been wondering how to tell the difference. Can you still get iron like this today.
I've been trying to get some wrought iron to put into my scrap pile haven't found any yet. This will help me out future thank you
I you want some for a project i'd gladly send you some. I have more that I can use.
Couch Forge Company how much would it be to get some sent down to Oklahoma I’m trying to make some Viking “relics” and I wanted a more accurate material
Hey there the rims are 3" wide. How much do you want? and what lengths can I cut them for you to use? Let me know that and i'll get you a price to ship
Would pieces 8 inches long do you any good? Let me know what you want/need and ill get a shipping price. I am sure I can ship quite a bit for under $ 20 depending what length you need
You could also just polish a small area with a hand grinder to mirror finish and look at it under a simple high max jewelers loop after a touch of acid. Very easy. Long stringers or ‘dots’ will be seen in ferrite grains. Zero pearlite islands.
As they say. Whoever "they" is. A picture is worth a thousand words. thanks for the vid!
Them are they and they are us
I am The Walrus
so wrought iron made from many layers of mild steel?
No. Steel is a completely different material. Wrought iron Is just iron with layers of silica left from the flux used to refine the iron from the smelt.
@@BlackBearForge so what different with cast iron in their process sir?
Ferric chloride etching must also tell a wrought iron from a mild steel
Juat got a wagon wheel myself. Very helpful
Yes I agree with David that really helps
I'm reading a book that mentioned a wrought iron bench. I looked it up so I could have the correct visual in my head and now I'm here. I don't believe I'll ever make use of the information I learned from the video, but I did enjoy learning something new. I like the way you shot the video and you have great camera presence. It gets a thumbs up from me!
Very interesting and informative. I wonder why wrought iron splits like that even after it has been forge welded and folded over multiple times. Welded steel is supposed to be one homogeneous material. Do you think that it could be because there are weld inclusions and/or because the welds are sub optimal?
wrought iron tends to have a fair amount of silica inclusion that creates a grain structure that has the same planes of weakness that wood does,
Good info thanks!!!
or you could just use a magnet... but i suppose this is good to know somewhere somehow, i learned a new word atleast
Can i just use a cutting wheel to make the slit? Or does it have to be put to the forge and chisel?
Sure
Enjoyed that , I’ve always wondered if there was a simple test. Do you have a test for cast iron vs cast steel ?
Definitely spark testing on this one works.
Otherwise if the pieces are of similar mass a ball bearing dripped on it may tell you.
You can usually tell cast by the appearance of the item. but spark testing, very high carbon content, will help.
Thanks for the important information. I have some old wagon wheels that the wooden parts of the wheels have recently fallen off. Also have more old iron in a wooden grain bin which is bolted together with full length iron rod threaded at each 30' end.
PS: Also stored in the old wooden grain bin was a coil of very heavy wire about 3' coil around3/16 to 1/4" thick. I have no idea what that would have been used for ??
The wire may have been old telegraph wire.
Really ? You could probably pull the poles over with it . It sure isn't what I would have guessed for telegraph wire or anything electrical. Then I have no idea about what they used back in that time.I thought I would try the wrought iron test on a piece of it. Thanks for the information !
Does wrought iron have any uses that is better than mild steel.
It is valued for its weathering properties. The slag and rust buildup tends to prevent the material from corroding further.
Wrought iron is mostly useful for restoration/conservation work since mild steel is a lot easier to mass produce.
Johan Krooneman, Thanks.
If you take wrought iron and smelter it down does that change the structure of the iron to the farm that it is no longer wrought-iron
Yes, if you melt it down it is a completely different process and so would be the resulting material. It is why the Bessemer processes and mild steel replaced the wrought iron process.
I found this definition for the word smelt thinking that it might help--:" to melt or fuse (a substance, such as ore) often with an accompanying chemical change usually to separate the metal." The smelter is the place where smelting took place. I could be wrong but it seems like this is the process of refining an ore into a metal. In this case iron into steel. Please correct me if this is wrong John.
If that is the case can you take wrought iron and turn it into cast iron can you take cast iron turned into wrought iron
We are way over my head at this point Donald, but I think that the purity of the iron and the other elements that are introduced into the smelting process, like carbon, vanadium, nickel etc. all produce different results. As I understand it carbon kind of "comes along" with the iron in the old way of obtaining iron and needs to be refined out to get to an acceptable level to make good steel. Pig iron was the crude product that was shipped to a smelter to be refined to a better grade of cast iron and further refined to make wrought iron and then into steel. Someone who knows more, please help.
Thank you
You may have information but you need a better idea how to use a camera especially for close-ups
U cant tell just by looking? I dont think my oven gets that hot